Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 27, 2020

'Mostly Peaceful' Rioting And Looting Is Helping Trump's Campaign

The Civil War of 2020 continues apace.



After three months of continuous clashes in Portland between Antifa rioters, who hide behind peaceful protests, and the police, the mayor is finally concerned about the damage:

Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler said Wednesday he hasn’t done enough to focus on damages caused by some city protests over the last three months and the fallout from coronavirus. He called on the community to help him come up with better solutions to city issues.

During the last months the Magnificent Mile in Chicago was looted - twice. Yesterday new riots and looting occurred in Minneapolis after a rumor of another police killing incited some people:

Police Chief Medaria Arradondo tried to dispel rumors that spread on social media about the death of the unidentified Black man, who was suspected in a Wednesday afternoon homicide and fatally shot himself on the Nicollet Mall as officers approached several hours later. His death, which was captured on city surveillance video and released by police within 90 minutes, nonetheless sparked protests and unrest in the heart of downtown.

The video confirmed the police account of what happened and showed the man glancing over his shoulder before pulling out the gun and firing, then collapsing to the ground as a half-dozen witnesses ran away with their hands in the air. The officers, one of whom had his gun drawn, shooed a remaining witness away and kicked the suspect’s gun away before performing chest compressions.

Last Sunday police in Kenosha, Wisconsin proved to be too incompetent to arrest a man they had already had under control. They shot him 7 times into the back when he was trying to get into his car. Nights of rioting followed. Buildings were burned down and businesses were looted.

Yesterday a white teen with a semi-automatic weapon had the stupid idea to join others in 'protecting the businesses' in Kenosha from further looting. He ended up killing two people and wounding more after he was attacked by some of the rioters. The teen was arrested and he is facing charges but I doubt that he is guilty of more than sheer stupidity and manslaughter in self defense.

The cycle of violence will likely continue. There are too many racist in the police and the level of U.S. police training seems to be abysmal. There is also too much tolerance for violence within the general community.

Politically this plays into Trump's law and order campaign. The Democrats have lauded Black Live Matters and the protests but have hardly spoken out against the rioting and looting that comes with them.

This CNN chyron from yesterday evening is an expression of their position:


'Mostly peaceful protests' are like the 'moderate rebels' in Syria - propaganda constructs that do not exist in the real world. The people who owned the burning cars and whose businesses were destroyed will not be relieved by such phrasing.

Joe Biden's attempt to swing Republican voters to his side has failed. At the same time he has rejected many of the issues progressives favored. This will hurt the election turn out the Democrats will need. Add to that the unrest which plays into Trump's hands. The Democrats who fear that are right:

“There’s no doubt it’s playing into Trump’s hands,” said Paul Soglin, who served as mayor of Madison, on and off, for more than two decades. “There’s a significant number of undecided voters who are not ideological, and they can move very easily from Republican to the Democratic column and back again. They are, in effect, the people who decide elections. And they are very distraught about both the horrendous carnage created by police officers in murdering African Americans, and ... for the safety of their communities.”

Trump, of course, is positioning himself as the antidote to urban unrest. "So let me be clear: The violence must stop, whether in Minneapolis, Portland or Kenosha," Vice President Mike Pence declared in his Republican convention speech Wednesday night, with Trump looking on. "We will have law and order on the streets of this country for every American of every race and creed and color."

Republicans had chided Joe Biden and other Democrats for not calling out the violence in the aftermath of the Blake shooting. Biden immediately addressed the shooting, but didn’t condemn the ensuing violence until Wednesday in a video posted on social media.

Despite Trump's failure to bring the pandemic under control his job approval rating continues to be high while Biden's lead in the polls is shrinking. The United States seem to have a higher tolerance for avoidable death by guns or viruses than other societies have. It is not the only point that makes it exceptional.

Posted by b on August 27, 2020 at 17:39 UTC | Permalink

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Jason @93--

The same sort of chemistry--Watts riots of 1965 and rise of Anti-War Movement at UC Berkeley in 1966--helped elect Reagan California's governor in 1966. Lots to fear when you have an unsharring society as no one wants to lose theirs and when the fear rises the urge is to elect the one promising to help protect your nest. Imagine a sharing society where all help all and almost no policing's needed. That sort of society IMO is close to impossible for the West to have based on its tenets except in the places where the elements of a collective culture still survive. IMO, The USA is now a lost cause and will further the process of destroying itself.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 27 2020 23:38 utc | 101

pnyx @92

Pictures or shut up. You heard my challenge. I provided proof that the "peaceful protesters" were attacking the kid with firearms... or at least one firearm, but the number doesn't matter. Every "protester" among the lot of them had their cellphone cameras out, so where is the imagery of the kid attacking protesters?

You cannot find it means that it doesn't exist means that it didn't happen, except in your horribly deluded American imagination. Your delusion is half the problem leading American society down the path to destruction, but the other side shoots better, so sleep tight.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 27 2020 23:38 utc | 102

I’ve said this from the beginning. Trump is the Globalists Elites Trojan Horse (pretending to be otherwise with rhetoric but not action) . The DNC is throwing the election. How else can anyone explain Biden/Harris?. Trump couldn't have picked better himself. This is all fake wrestling. For those still stuck in the 2 party paradigm, you have my sympathy. Life must seem so confusing to you. Double up on the blue pill and all will be well. Ignorance really is Bliss

Posted by: Kay Fabe | Aug 28 2020 0:15 utc | 103

McKenzie Wark: 'The Logic of Riots'

Looting and arson are recurring events within what the Situationists called the "overdeveloped world." They are the mark of overdevelopment, of the quantitative expansion of production outstripping the qualitative transformation of everyday life, of desires spinning their wheels, without traction in the elaboration of needs. The proximate causes may vary, and are usually to do with the thuggery of the police and the indifference of the state.

What the Situationists point to is the consistency and persistence of what follows, the twin forks of seize it all, or burn it down. Sometimes, the riot takes a different form, and passes toward rebellion, even toward revolution, or perhaps those in the middle of it think it does. This is why May ‘68 has a special place in not only the theory but also the mythology of the Situationists. It was more than a riot. It was the fabled general strike.

There is a lot that is missing from Debord's account of Watts: The thirty dead, the thousand injured, the four thousand arrests. Still, it might have interested him that later investigations upheld his hunch that while the riots were leaderless they were not without organization. Impromptu meetings in the park after dark coordinated movements, for example. Riots are neither irrational, spontaneous outbursts, nor the secret workings of some conspiracy or other.

They, are rather, the working out of an inner tension in commodified life.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Aug 28 2020 0:22 utc | 104

I am having a really hard time letting the shooter kid off the hook. I must be convinced he had no other choice than to go 30 miles out of his way armed with a semi-automatic. Perhaps he went to protect some family business or something, which is possible and would be legitimate, still don't know about legal, but certainly stupid given the circumstances.

Further, howcome he finds himself in the streets away from the property the militia he was member of was protecting, alone and separated from his fellow members? The police pushed them away from the vicinity and dispersed them? They were overwhelmed by protesters/rioters and chose to avoid a bloodbath fleeing their original ground? Why is he alone between rioters?

At this point I am more inclined to presume that he finally saw the opportunity to become a hero in his circle at the highly likely cost of human lives while enjoying a free pass, as opposed to, actually someone concerned with the welfare of his community and willing to risk his life for it. The only thing keeping him in the clear is the presumption of innocence which I am not sure will hold given his willing direct role in the event.

This whole event saddens me deeply in a "hate to have been right all along" kind of way. 9 out 10 things are all wrong in this picture across both extremes, the States are fucked!

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Aug 28 2020 0:24 utc | 105

The reference to Debord is this article: The Decline and Fall of the Spectacle-Commodity Economy

Reactions from all sides were most revealing: a revolutionary event, by bringing existing problems into the open, provokes its opponents into an inhabitual lucidity. Police Chief William Parker, for example, rejected all the major black organizations’ offers of mediation, correctly asserting: “These rioters don’t have any leaders.” Since the blacks no longer had any leaders, it was the moment of truth for both sides. What did one of those unemployed leaders, NAACP general secretary Roy Wilkins, have to say? He declared that the riot “should be put down with all necessary force.” And Los Angeles Cardinal McIntyre, who protested loudly, did not protest against the violence of the repression, which one might have supposed the most tactful policy at a time when the Roman Church is modernizing its image; he denounced “this premeditated revolt against the rights of one’s neighbor and against respect for law and order,” calling on Catholics to oppose the looting and “this violence without any apparent justification.” And all those who went so far as to recognize the “apparent justifications” of the rage of the Los Angeles blacks (but never the real ones), all the ideologists and “spokesmen” of the vacuous international Left, deplored the irresponsibility, the disorder, the looting (especially the fact that arms and alcohol were the first targets) and the 2000 fires with which the blacks lit up their battle and their ball. But who has defended the Los Angeles rioters in the terms they deserve?

We will. Let the economists fret over the $27 million lost, and the city planners sigh over one of their most beautiful supermarkets gone up in smoke, and McIntyre blubber over his slain deputy sheriff. Let the sociologists bemoan the absurdity and intoxication of this rebellion. The role of a revolutionary publication is not only to justify the Los Angeles insurgents, but to help elucidate their perspectives, to explain theoretically the truth for which such practical action expresses the search.

Well, b could have done that, too. But he didn't.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Aug 28 2020 0:26 utc | 106

Haiti, as far as the US is, or has been, concerned is a social laboratory for the US think tanks.

A self sufficient country in 1985, in many respects, was turned into a Neo Liberal Paradise, after a successful color revolution ousted a nationalist and popular leader.

Neoliberal provisions were enacted. no more import permits were neccessary, plus reduction of custom duties opened the contry to uncontrolled imports.

New tariffs made it cheaper to import candles than their components.
would you believe?

Haitian productors were doomed to extintion.

Since then, HAiti has been into a downward spiral punctuated by assasinations, armed robberies, house invasions, and a failing law and order apparatus.

The peasant class was destroyed since importation of foreigh goods was no longer controlled. Cities swelled with indigent farmers looking for work that was, and stil is, nonexistent. Local factories were vanquished by imported goods and so are urban workers.

A considerable amount of arms and munitions was and is still"smuggled"? in the country. Indigents are somehow armed and banditry is common place.

In their desperate attempt to live, those trying to survive extract money and blood through robbery, murders, kidnappings, you name it.

The attitude of the 1% in the US is akin to what they have perpetrated in Haiti on their own citizens. Progressive poverty, loss of economic opportinities, expatriation of work spots and favoritism of Us Government towards the wall street parasites.

This will generate the same turmoils as a similar policy did to Haiti.

Haiti was the laboratory (expendable niggers) were the experiment has been validated.

Now the same will be happening to the US.

Posted by: CarlD | Aug 28 2020 0:39 utc | 107

William Gruff @Aug27 23:38 103

Pictures or shut up.

He killed TWO people Gruff. Your picture only shows the point that makes the best case for one of the killings to be self-defense.

The shooting of the other person he killed is much less defensible. And that's why the kid faces a murder charge - along with the apparent illegality of his carrying the gun in the Wisconsin.

I provided proof that the "peaceful protesters" were attacking the kid with firearms ...

No one attacked the kid with firearms. One guy might've brandished a handgun (judging by the picture that you provided, it looks like a handgun) but it doesn't appear that he actually shot at the 17-year old. I don't hear any such shooting and I haven't heard of any claims that he shot at the 17-year old.

Brandishing a firearm is menacing, not "attacking ... with firearms".


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 28 2020 0:52 utc | 108

Another good one from Tim Cushing over at TechDirt: It's Time To Start Dismantling One Of The Nation's Oldest Racist Institutions: Law Enforcement

Article referenced in Cushing's piece: The Abolition Movement - What we talk about when we talk about addressing the savage roots of policing: justice and safety for everyone.

This what you get when people can't trust the police: Gun Sales Records Show 5 Million First-Time Gun Buyers So Far in 2020

And this is what happens when you don't handle firearms properly: BREAKING: Prosecutors Formally Charge Kyle Rittenhouse With First Degree Murder

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Aug 28 2020 0:54 utc | 109

It's clear by the way this article is written and others recently like it, that Bernhard has either been co-opted or removed from control of his own website. Bernhard doesn't have the type of English the author of this article writes with, nor is he given to the type of 'choosing sides' slant this article has.

It makes me sad more than anything, because b was one of the last truly insightful analysts on a wide range of relevant, up-to-the-minute geopolitical subjects. Enough that I donated a considerable sum of money at the time when he asked for donations.

Others here are seeing the same thing it seems.

Alas, one by one the lights of independent voices are being snuffed out. I hope you can read this b, and I hope that you are ok. You did fine work and will always be remembered as an honest analyst.

I won't post any more comments like this. Thank you for the intelligent conversations barflies, and all the best to you and yours for the dark days to come.

Paul :)

Posted by: The Q | Aug 28 2020 0:55 utc | 110

William Gruff you are a voice of reason in this leftist septic tank.

Posted by: Kiza | Aug 28 2020 0:59 utc | 111

From the linked Romanoff article:

A few good schools or universities in an entire nation do not make it a world leader, the proof residing in the highest level of functional illiteracy of all major nations (25%) and a truly legendary level of ignorance

A similar fraction of the US population as MAGA hat-wearers, no? I wonder how much overlap there is between the two groups...

Posted by: farm ecologist | Aug 28 2020 1:08 utc | 112

@112 May you be flushed down the drain with Mr Gruff.

Posted by: Joe | Aug 28 2020 1:11 utc | 113

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 27 2020 20:56 utc | 66

Think nothing of it. It's merely a coincidence that all 3 victims of the white supremacist were also white & a further coincidence that all 3 were convicted felons with records of violence.

Posted by: Moe Lester | Aug 28 2020 1:24 utc | 114

This is the heading text for a posting at ZH

The same lawyer who represented Covington Catholic student Nick Sandmann has agreed to take on Rittenhouse's case...

If he can prove the exceptionalism of Sandmann and now Rittenhouse then what more proof is needed of American's exceptionalism over the rest of the world?/snark

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 28 2020 1:31 utc | 115

"'Mostly Peaceful' Rioting And Looting Is Helping Trump's Campaign"

The title of this blog post does inadvertently raise a provocative question--not only who politically benefits from the looting and rioting, but also who is actually behind it?

During the George Floyd protests, there was evidence that the POLICE across the USA were deliberately destroying property--including police officers attacking a Target department store or even their own police car!

Just as there are False Flag attacks where America and its assets (like those "Pro-Democracy" jihadists in Syria) stage attacks that they blame on others (like the 2018 chemical attack in Douma, Syria or the Maidan regime change op in Ukraine in 2014), so too will America instigate looting and violence inside its own borders to be blamed on a convenient patsy like ANTIFA or Black Lives Matters protesters.

It would not be a surprise if some or even much of the looting and violence that people whine about is actually being perpetrated--or at least deliberately provoked--by the police or their sockpuppets and assets:

Police at Protests All Over the Country Caught Destroying Property

In short, perhaps this violence and looting are actually part of a deliberate and calculated American strategy?

Posted by: ak74 | Aug 28 2020 2:14 utc | 116

Anyone who thinks b here is rooting for the fall of the Empire; I got a bridge to sell that you can jump from when you wake up and realize the Empire is more powerful than ever with Trump as king.

Remember how riots started in Ukraine and Syria? All it takes is a group of infiltrators from the outside to start the fire and snipers here and there. Oh yes, it's definitely true that the violence helps Trump. He knows it, he stokes it, and as the law and order President who's going to put out the fires, he needs some barn burners starting those fires.

Trump is putting on a big political show production using government property unethically, the taxpayers' property, the better to fool everyone into voting for the most authoritarian and corrupt administration that will ever rule U.S.A. and the world.

You know, if Hit ler lived in this era he'd put on a spectacular show just like Trump with all the surround cinema and patriotic trappings and desperate people would fall for it all over again. How easy it is to fool people today. Rah-rah, U.S.A.! U.S.A.!

Dingbats falling for the same b.s. again.

Yeah, sure, the chaos and violence is great for Trump's poll numbers, perfect for distracting from the mess he made with Covid (the only real test to his Presidency) and you better believe he's going to do everything in his power to stoke the fire all the way while he delivers his law and order, only-I-can-restore-peace-and-security message.

Notice how b was so quick to draw a parallel between Syria's shet disturbers and antifa...only at that time he claimed those Syrian protesters/rioters were paid salafi a.q. rioters and operators.

So antifa are the radicals to blame, is that how you wanna play it now??? Now it's not paid rioters and radical right-wing barn burners making justified protests look like a major security threat?

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me!

You are being fooled again by a crass, immoral, hypocritical master manipulator and b is carrying his water twisting truth into a pretzel.

While tens of thousands of people were dying from Covid, Trump was on the golf course multiple times, dismissing Covid as a flu that would be gone by Easter!

Dumb, stupid people falling for the CON TWICE!

P.S. I'm surprised you didn't go all the way and equate antifa with Al-Qaeda...oh, wait. YOU DID.

Shameless and disgusting.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 28 2020 2:18 utc | 117

@102 Karlof...i agree, your analysis is spot on, but where does a leftist put their political energy when the two options are right-wing fascist and right-wing fascist-lite?

BLM and Antifa having corporate sponsers makes them a little fascist, too, not to mention ideologically intolerant. The daughtets and sons of the spoiled upper-middle class.

I would love a more sharing society, don't know how to get there. USA is probably a lost cause, and as VK states, that is probably a good thing for the rest of the world.

Posted by: Jason | Aug 28 2020 2:24 utc | 118

Within 48 hours of the shooting more and more evidence is coming out that supports a legal arguement of self defense (im not sure if he will be acquitted, but this is no slam dunk case for the prosecutor). Him getting such excellent legal defense within a short time also makes me think that there were organizations already waiting in the wings for a case like this (i.e armed citizen takes a stand vs BLM rioters) and that they will be flooding his legal defense fund with money making a conviction less likely (you want justice in the US make sure you have money first). I suspect this will be pled out to some minor charge (like dangerous discharge of a firearm or something)

Posted by: Kadath | Aug 28 2020 2:25 utc | 119

@94 blm

Refreshing honesty.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 28 2020 2:29 utc | 120

Thanks to Dave @ 79. Indeed, if nothing else is clear, it is true the young man has ruined his life.

And also I thank Jason @ 93, who says "...the rioting/looting, burning...are giving Trump a way to win..." Much as I would wish otherwise, Jason makes b's points well(as do many other posters) that the energy behind Trump will overcome what is a flaccid effort by the Democrats.

As Grieved says at 96, they really don't want to win, any more than they wanted a successful impeachment process. They "no longer represent their historic platform, which they have in fact sold out completely." There has been an ongoing attempt on the part of voters to in fact 'jump start' a return to that historic platform; hard to believe they refuse to do so.

I'm very sorry I don't have anything more hopeful to say. That was the last thing in Pandora's box, but out it flew ... Perhaps we can quietly entice it to return.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 28 2020 2:38 utc | 121

@115 Moe Lester
The boy’s “victims” just have the familiar profile of the regime changing troops from Yugoslavia, Venezuela, Ukraine and all other colour revolutions (very few in Belarus so far). That the boy was charged with the first degree murder (and five other charges) is only proof that the “authorities” are protecting their looting, burning and murdering troopers, even more than the sometimes abusive police. It is the most interesting packing order: the useful criminals above the police and citizenry. We never find out where those Antifa and BLM troopers come from, because they are usually recruited and trained in large cities and driven to the locations of the revolution, together with bricks, iron bars, hand guns and Molotov cocktails in car boots or bus carriages, not in little towns like Kenosha. Soon the phantom snipers will appear too, shooting at both sides.

Gene Sharp read all Lenin’s revolutionary manuals before he wrote his book. This criminal fodder of the “revolution’” loses its value only after the revolution. Every revolution eats its children - I just cannot imagine what kind of money and privilege could quite them after.

It is going to be the hottest Fall ever in the whole history of North America and totally deserved. The colour revolution is coming back to its chosenite home.

Posted by: Kiza | Aug 28 2020 2:41 utc | 122

@118 ak74

Great minds must think alike because while you were posting your comment I was finishing up mine and you beat me to it.

In short, perhaps this violence and looting are actually part of a deliberate and calculated American strategy?

It's a calculated Zionist Trump strategy. I wrote when Biden was beating Trump by double-digits that his Zionist benefactors will do everything and anything to ensure Trump wins no matter what...I guess even threatening to burn down the house.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 28 2020 2:43 utc | 123


Why do you believe b is a Trumps advocate? to date, b has not voiced a preference.

That he ascertains that his detractors are barking at the wrong three does not make him a Trump advocate.

You seem to see life with manicheist glasses, black or white. Life is composed of many greys.

I can understand your hatred of Trump. He is as divisive a figure as can be had. But, mind you: is Joe Biden the strongest Democratic cantidate the Democrats could field?

A controversial figure against a bland one?

I can understand you do not like Putin. You have been brainwashed to think he is evil.

Putin is, maybe, not a saint. He, probably will refrain from initiating a war we all will lose.

Be grateful that a harsh reactiom of his has not yet signalled the atomic winter's onset that your eventual presidents will provoque.

Posted by: CarlD | Aug 28 2020 2:50 utc | 124

Covid Fatalities should be very high in Obese USA, 45+% of Americans are Obese pigs which matches perfectly with Covid preying on "pre-existing" health conditions.

Police Training is exactly the result one might expect from ex-military now serving as cops with implications of the vast blood shed on civilians in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. Ex military who have not blown their own brains out (24 suicides per day) now "serving" as cops. Also Israeli (US govt endorsed and paid for) training cops plays a strong hand in the pigs aggressive tactics vs protesters.

Violence? America Loves and worships at the Altar of violent entertainment. Nothing like Game of Thrones (toilets?) to capture A Nation relishing the weekly fantasy rape torture murder show.

Biden/Harris just announced they will be sucking Zionist cock with unhindered and unconditional military, political and financial love juice. Trump doesn't even ask for a Benjamin Reach Around but he won't take Amurikans guns away- Biden certainly will try to take guns away.

Trump will and has just effectively WON the Election.

Perverted Americans here are masturbating over each other about who shot who? Doesn't fucking matter- cops shoot black dude in the back, kid shoots protesters. America is the most violent Nation on the planet. America is a failed Nation. The blood shedding USA has Patriotically done around the globe is now running in the streets at home.

35 Million Americans unemployed due to Covid shutdowns have been abandoned by their Govt on Vacation ! When they (WE) get desperate- pissed off and desperate- the real party will erupt.

There's blood in the streets, it's up to my ankles
There's blood on the streets, it's up to my knee
Blood on the streets in the town of Chicago
Blood on the rise, it's following me
She came...
Just about the break of day

Blood in the streets in the town of New Haven
Blood stains the roofs and the palm trees of Venice
Blood in my love in the terrible summer
Bloody red sun of phantastic L.A.

Blood screams her brain as they chop off her fingers
Blood will be born in the birth of a nation
Blood is the rose of mysterious union

There's blood in the streets, it's up to my ankles
Blood in the streets, it's up to my knee
Blood in the streets of the town of Chicago
Blood on the rise, it's following me

Posted by: CitizenX | Aug 28 2020 2:52 utc | 125


Don't worry donkeytale, b needs someone the echo chamber members can kick around to make it interesting.

And this is one of the best threads I've had the pleasure to kick ass on, starting at the top.

Now, for the bottom feeder, WG...later.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 28 2020 2:56 utc | 126

Rudy Giuliani was frothing at the mouth tonight like a rabid Trump police dog. Too bad those false teeth gave him away as toothless.

Tom Cotton, thank you for your honest pro Trump speech that proves Trump is a better Neocon Zionist than you! Bomb Iran!🖕

Posted by: Circe | Aug 28 2020 3:03 utc | 127

Alice Johnson, I love you, but you're wrong Trump didn't see a person in you.

He saw a PROP.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 28 2020 3:09 utc | 128

People that don't want to get shot run and seek cover. The people who want to get shot jump at the kid with the gun.

And surprise, the moment shots are fired, the mob disperses.

Only one justice here: don't fucking chase and jump on gunslinger.

Posted by: Smith | Aug 28 2020 3:10 utc | 129

The mass shooter was being pursued after he had committed first degree murder. Him and his family have white supremacist gang affiliations and he crossed state lines wearing gloves conspiring to commit an act of terrorism. The "Molotov" is andy ngo bottom-scraping propaganda for chuds without the wherewithal to understand anything about reality basically. It was a plastic bottle thrown after he had murdered someone (premeditated per the gloves). He was then protected by the chartered race soldiers. If it's not vigilante KKK terror then it's GLADIO.

Posted by: Reasonable man | Aug 28 2020 3:28 utc | 130

This is very obviously a case of the Gestapo outsourcing their brutal crackdown to deputized white supremacists. The murderer's classmates said he was off and may become a school shooter one day.

Posted by: Reasonable man | Aug 28 2020 3:30 utc | 131

@ Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 18:36 utc | 16 quote
"Does the unrest really reflect an "Empire in decline" or a Deep State gambit to introduce control measures in anticipation of a war?"

it's a good question jr... either way it implies both as i see it.. in fact, i think the 2 go hand in hand... but i frame it more the former way then the later..

after thinking about this more i will concede b is german just like i am a canuck, and perhaps we are reading it wrong and the racial tension especially when it comes to police actions seems to be a real problem in the usa... i will say this - b is writing on what is of real concern and framing it with the title is indeed also very relevant.. i tend to look at this like @kadath earlier in thinking it is too soon to really comment here on this, but i do note @ moe lesters quote " It's merely a coincidence that all 3 victims of the white supremacist were also white & a further coincidence that all 3 were convicted felons with records of violence." is worth pondering for a moment..

and yeah, i read karlof1's article and numerous comments and everyone else's too for that matter.. nothing is ever easy and simple to take apart as i see it.. i continue to believe the usa is in a serious state of decline and as some others - clueless joe and etc have stated - civil war seems all but assured when looking at this...

@ 93 jason.. thanks for your comments.. they are also very relevant...

Posted by: james | Aug 28 2020 3:50 utc | 132

Alleged Kenosha Killer Loved Cops, Guns, Trump, and 'Triggering the Libs,' Former Classmates Say

Some of his classmates joked that he’d be a mass shooter one day. “I personally believe he went to Wisconsin with the intent to kill,” said one former classmate...

Rittenhouse was also known as a “ride or die” Trump supporter. “If you said anything bad about Trump, he’d threaten you,” ... In January, Rittenhouse even traveled to Iowa, where he had front row seats at a Trump rally, Buzzfeed reported. “Kyle was the type of kid to wear a MAGA hat or other apparel just for attention, or to “trigger” people,” ...

. . .

Social media linked to Rittenhouse also showed his affinity for Blue Lives Matter and the Back the Blue movements, which in recent months has inspired the presence of pro-cop vigilante groups at civil rights protests.

On Tuesday night, Rittenhouse joined up with a crew of pro-cop vigilantes and militiamen who had been standing guard by a gas station. He was shown on video palling around with police officers, who thanked him for being there and gave him a bottle of water — even though it was after the 8 p.m. curfew.

Hours later, after a confrontation between protesters and militia men, Rittenhouse opened fire, according to bystander video from the scene.

First he allegedly killed a protester, by shooting him in the head. Then he tried to run away, while talking on the phone: “I’ve just killed someone,” he said in video captured on a cell phone.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 28 2020 3:51 utc | 133

Hey DNC voters, I heard from the reliable sources, most of all from her Illustrious Eminence Hillary Clinton, that it is the Trump supporters who are marching right behind the peaceful BLM and Antifa protesters, doing all the burning, beating and looting. They use the shoe polish on their faces (the contemporary Minstrels) to hide their white supremacist identities.

Oh you so compassionate leftists, worrying about the boys “ruined life”. The boys life will be ruined even less than Nik Sandman’s. There is a big question what was a young boy doing facing professional and armed BLM thugs that even the police avoids? What parents would leave their child unsupervised, even if 18 even if armed? Gross parent negligence? From the video, it us not clear how the first thug got shot. There was nothing burning around the shot tug on the ground, therefore it is unlikely that the thug was throwing a burning cocktail. On the balance of probabilities, and based on how one of the thug’s colleagues later tried to yank the boys gun when the boy was pushed down on the ground, it is likely that the first thug tried the same. But there is nothing to prove either way. After shooting the first thug the boy turned and ran away. From that moment on, he handled himself most admirably, I wish I would have kept my composure being chased by professional criminals, at least one of who was armed, as he did. He shot dead the thug who tried to yank his gun and shot the guy with the hand gun in the arm holding the gun. It is ultimately ironic that none of the BLM thugs would have attacked this boy if they did not see just a boy in front of them. Thus, all three “victims” totally underestimated the skill of the armed boy and paid for it (the third will have only a partial use of his right hand for the rest of his life - no more throwing of Molotov cocktails for that one, but did he deserve a DNC pension?).

BTW, in all my time on the Internet since 1991, I have never ever come across such a high level and so skilful manipulator (troll) as karlof. You are the master of the medium, respect.

Posted by: Kiza | Aug 28 2020 4:01 utc | 134

William Gruff @Aug27 23:38 #103

Pictures or shut up. You heard my challenge. I provided proof that the "peaceful protesters" were attacking the kid with firearms... so where is the imagery of the kid attacking protesters?

Here it is: Rittenhouse runs away saying into his cell phone: "I just killed somebody."

Apparently this is why the mob was chasing him - they chased him after he shot his first victim (in the head)


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 28 2020 4:05 utc | 135

@ Kiza # 136 who was going on ok and then called karlof1 a troll without detailing what that really means to them, examples, etc.

Talk about a drive-by....sheesh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 28 2020 4:18 utc | 136

James " nothing is ever easy and simple to take apart as i see it.. i continue to believe the usa is in a serious state of decline "

That is about it. I guess I don't endear myself to yankistan inhabitants though, as my view is the more trouble they have at home, the less trouble they will make abroad.
Americans remind me very much of my children when they where young. Towards the end of the week there would be constant squabbling and arguments. I would come home tired and say cut it out. Then I would say go find my belt. Silence. They would search diligently but it was hard to find. I would call out and say have you found it yet. Eventually the dreaded belt would be found and handed to me. They would line up and pull sad faces. At that stage is was game over for me, but they would be good for another week. Yanks remind me very much of kids at that age but they are armed and there is nobody to say "right go and find my belt"

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 28 2020 4:30 utc | 137

Video of first shooting from two angles.

Rittenhouse is pursued by multiple people, a bottle is thrown at him (which doesn't come close to hitting him). Rittenhouse turns and shoots off a volley, killing the pursuer that is closest to him. Rittenhouse circles back to check on the man he shot then runs away talking into his mobile phone.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 28 2020 4:33 utc | 138

China, I'm really pissed with you. Your Japanese beetle traps don't work. Not one beetle got trapped! I paid $16 for that contraption.

Instead of a refund I want you to nuke Operation Warp Speed, by putting out the first and safest Covid-19 vaccine! You owe me big time, China!

Yes, Ivanka crowned Trump, The People's President. Ivanka's speech was flatter than her hair. How is that even possible? It was replete with awkwardness. The so-called peace agreement got the loudest applause and a standing ovation. The one-sided agreement that Zionists will sell their soul for to get Trump back as Zionist in Chief brought the house down for Ivanka.

Trump's long-winded speech in succinct iconography 😫 i.e painful followed by 😴😴😴😴. Wake me up when it's over...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

This whole Trump political production is a gigantic, monumental exercise in inflated buffoonery.

Alas, the political pomp and circumstance making a mockery of solemn tradition afforded to the American people's property will sway legions of dumb masses blinded by glitzy ostentation masquerading for vulgarity, duplicity, suppression and treachery.

This whole snoozefest is signed Trump Productions inc. Written by Trump, directed by Trump, produced by Trump, for the glory of one. TRUMP.

Long live the King of America, Wall Street...and Israel!

p.s. to CarlD. No one brainwashes me. My perception of Putin has evolved, as inscrutable as he pretends to be. I have lost respect for him, and I was influenced by no one but him.

Start uncorking the champagne Russia!

Posted by: Circe | Aug 28 2020 4:37 utc | 139

@ 139 peter au... thanks for the personal note on that... i have always enjoyed the lao tze quote - " the further you go, the less you know"! i am not quick to think i have the answer for so much of what i see going on.. it would be nice if people could step back and not be so quick to pronounce guilt or whatever on others.. it is easier said then done, but living life and having a sense of maturity or perspective helps a lot...

Posted by: james | Aug 28 2020 4:45 utc | 140

There is another video of the same scene except it appears to show someone in the pursueing mob with a handgun, which he fires twice in the air...i believe those are the first two shots heard in the video you posted...followed by four shots from an AR-15.

Watching the video it looks like the first two gunshots are what caused the kid to turn around and shoot at his nearest pursuer, thinking he was being shot at.

I am afraid to post the video and mess up the format here.

Posted by: Jason | Aug 28 2020 4:45 utc | 141

Trump was trying to get into the Guiness World record with his Marathon Speech and almost fell asleep at the podium...with good reason.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 28 2020 4:54 utc | 142

circe was trying to get in the moa world record book with her marathon posting while some of us nod off, lol...

Posted by: james | Aug 28 2020 5:03 utc | 143

Circe sounds like a deranged cat lady, but is he/she one?

Posted by: Smith | Aug 28 2020 5:05 utc | 144

If Trump had put as much effort into fighting Covid (the one and only singular challenge which he failed miserably to contain) as he put into Trump Productions inc., i.e. his convention, there would be two-thirds of the 181,000 dead Americans living today to witness this fatuous, delusional, inappropriate display.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 28 2020 5:06 utc | 145

@ W. Gruff, Kadath, Kevin and Kiza

You guys have got it pretty much on the money regarding K. Rittenhauser. He is on the clear. It was self-defense and nothing more. The video evidence is incontrovertible. No matter how the brilliant brains here like to “interpret” them. What is interesting is that he was obviously the youngest and weakest looking of the vigilantes that night and that fact did not escape the Antifa thugs. He was singled out thinking he is the weakest in the herd. Wolf in the sheep’s clothing, is what they got.

The kid actually showed amazing restraint that I can only attribute to good training. He only shot the people who physically threatened him with his life. You can clearly see him after shooting the armed thug, there is a guy with raised hands in front of him and the kid spared him. Who can think straight like that when an angry mob/criminals bearing down on you?

Furthermore, why would he call the police if he was there on a shooting spree? Again, training and restraint.

Based on the video evidence, nothing points to more than a kid who was there to protect local businesses. And nobody here is going to make me have any kind of sympathy for a repeat sex offender, a domestic-violence felon and a thug in violation of his felony by carrying illegal arms, posing as “BLM protesters”. Good riddance.

Question, the rest of the barflies should be asking, is how are these felons and criminals being recruited into burning and destroying our cities. Why are majority of the “BLM protesters” white, between 18-24, members of LGBT and many of the them with criminal records, fully trained in the urban warfare tactics and obviously on a payroll? How is that even happening?

BLM is a compromised movement and the black communities have woken up to that fact. Grievances with respect to police, poverty and racism are legitimate but their cause has been hijacked, as usual. Malcolm X said, the worst enemy of a black man is a white liberal. Still holds true today.

To karlof1, Jackrabbit and are concentrating on the wrong individuals. Perhaps on purpose. Who knows?

Antifa needs to be weeded out. Without exception. For they are not here to be reasoned with or bargained with. Destruction and chaos is the agenda of their paymasters and puppeteers and that cannot be tolerated.

Posted by: Alpi | Aug 28 2020 5:14 utc | 146

psychohistorian @138--

Odd comment to be sure. Kiva seems ignorant of Imagine.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 28 2020 5:14 utc | 147

Alpi @148--

It ought to be very clear who/what I'm concentrating on. It's the US Supreme Court and the Executive branch of the US Federal government along with its owner, the Federal Reserve Bank and the Financial Parasites that comprise its members. So now, tell me who you're concentrating on?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 28 2020 5:19 utc | 148

@karlof1 150

I am with you on that a 100%. Also, against racism, police brutality and discrimination.

But I am afraid your comments regarding the kid and the events in Kenosha cannot be substantiated based on the video evidence. Maybe we are looking at different videos. Plus, more is coming out by the hour, that is further proof that these criminals had it coming. Especially, the pedophile who was goading the vigilantes earlier in the night by telling them “shoot me Ni**er”. Thankfully, He got his wish.

Right now, I am concentrating on the Antifa, wanting them wiped out. They are a force for evil and are dragging us into a civil war based on the agenda of their paymasters. I am sure you will agree that cannot come to pass, no matter how bad our problems are. There are other solutions.

Antifa is a movement/criminal organization designed to distract us from the agenda you are concentrating in your post. They are my aspirations as well.

Posted by: Alpi | Aug 28 2020 5:37 utc | 149

james 142

the way i see it, the us problems go much higher than the looters or the cops. it goes higher than their 'elite'. it is the culture.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 28 2020 5:46 utc | 150

I'm sorry but I do not feel much empathy for looters and rioters. Just like I do not feel much empathy for people who do not pay their rent. I am very happy there are cops around who put these deadbeats down.

Anyone holding a gun, is going to get what is coming to them; whether that be a bullet or many many years in jail.

Posted by: robert | Aug 28 2020 6:40 utc | 151

@robert #153

I'm sorry but I do not feel much empathy for looters and rioters. Just like I do not feel much empathy for people who do not pay their rent. I am very happy there are cops around who put these deadbeats down.

Anyone holding a gun, is going to get what is coming to them; whether that be a bullet or many many years in jail.

"Put them down?" Like with seven shots in the back?

The issue of deadbeat tenants is reaching a head with the Covid crisis, I don't think that mass evictions constitute social justice.

"Anyone holding a gun"? Like the Bundy family pointing weapons at federal officers or the McCloskeys brandishing guns at protesters from their front lawn?

Posted by: Malchik Ralf | Aug 28 2020 7:03 utc | 152

There is a way for Trump to be defeated. Covid was what exposed Trump for the fraud that he is. I have never been for Obama except months before he was nominated when he was running against Hillary, but it is a fact that Obama started his Presidency with the worst economy in decades and managed to turn it around and hand a good economy to Trump who merely rode the wave to its height.

So the economy was Obama's challenge; the foreign policy challenges were self-inflicted. Therefore Trump's only challenge to date was Covid, and he is a total failure in that regard.

Is there any guarantee that had Trump been handed the economy of 2007 he would have turned it around? No. This is a man who had several bankruptcies and made money on licensing, exploiting others, his celebrity and the money daddy Trump left him.

I believe that Covid came to topple his house of cards, and rightly so.

I believe he will fail to turn the economy around and that he has war intentions regarding Iran. His foreign policy vis a vis Iran, Venezuela and China is a mess! Domestically, there is civil unrest in the streets the likes of which has not been seen since the 1960s! If he wins the election this issue will skyrocket because he is out of touch with racial minorities and the poor and his lavish, inappropriate convention proves it. Outside the White House, in the dark, there were protesters lit up by the extravagant fireworks display. The contrast couldn't be more staggering. Trump is not living in reality.

The whole RNC Trump Production Convention was smoke and mirrors designed to hide his failures and especially his delusional perception, and mishandling of the pandemic.

The economy will not come roaring back, he is neglecting the effects of climate change that will also create strife, he is ignoring the civil unrest or trying to squash it with force and he is causing a lot of tension and hardship with his sanctions on Iran, Venezuela, Lebanon, Syria and North Korea and with his increasing hostility with China.

His delusional, untimely lavish and inappropriate convention at this time when people are suffering the losses and tragic consequences of Covid and resentment and rage against racial oppression is so prevalent; is like responding: Let them eat CAKE!

There is a whole lot of fodder there to take him down. Either he's defeated now or he will be humbled later, or worse, brought to his knees.

Trump will lose the war, whichever one he'll trigger with his pride and unyielding abuse of power.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 28 2020 7:25 utc | 153

Posted by: Alpi | Aug 28 2020 5:14 utc | 148

I dunno, I'm a mere European, but watching the videos, it didn't seem to me at all like self-defence. It was an unjustified over-reaction, to shoot two dead. Of course, US law is "special", as they say, and doesn't necessarily conform to natural justice.

The worst thing though, was that he was surrounded by cop cars, and armoured personnel carriers, and they made no attempt to stop him or interrogate him (as we know he was not arrested until the following day, back home), did not even get out of their vehicles, although they would have heard many shots. If he'd been a black brandishing a gun like that, he would have been instantly shot dead. Blake was only supposed to have had a knife hidden in his car, which he was not in, not brandishing an AR15 in full view in his hands. I don't think I've ever seen a clearer example of racist behaviour on the part of the cops.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 28 2020 7:30 utc | 154

The US is the long neglected ammonium nitrate waiting for Newton's second law of thermodynamics to kick in and in a New York minute hit thermodynamic equilibrium. The fireworks are getting awfully close. Who started it? Who knows. It is way past the time that this situation could be dealt with peacefully. The corruption and greed made sure of that. The blast not only devastates the US, but the world. Only those that have reduced this risk to their existence will survive mostly in their present form. For Canada, see Beirut's grain elevators. I here the port is back at 100% for receiving goods. Not so much the grain elevators.

What happens next? Well, the last four stages of a (failed) project. Panic. Search for the guilty. Punishment of the innocent. Praise and honour for the (non) participants. Each "Party" will do their own search for the guilty. The truth, and much more will be punished. Those who have prospered since 2008 will be handsomely rewarded. Why? Why not. Nothing has stopped them yet.

Who knows. Maybe the masses will pass from inertia to a rapidly accelerating victory in Newton's third law over this evil. Don't know much about history, but I recall a lot of revolutions started because there was a lack of food. I don't think Cheesy's and Diet Coke count. This will be a key factor. The circuses (pro sports) are mostly tide up with boycotts at the moment. No circus and bread. Watch out that shining city on a hill. Pitchforks will be your last problem. The masses at this point will revolt. Too bad it was shitty summer for my garden. Well, you harvest everything you can and hope for the best.

Posted by: Tom | Aug 28 2020 7:37 utc | 155

@psychohistorian 138
I am sorry that I neglected you, but you are not of karlof's stature, very good but not the shifu of Internet trolls. Both of you use what I call the "Eric Margolis technique" - several reasonable articles and then a row of propaganda and bull, then repeat the cycle.

On a related matter, the boy was definitely and persistently pursued by his first "victim" who also throws something at him. Somebody else shoots and then the boy shoots. It does not appear that the "victim" had the handgun, but it was probably the "victim's" buddy, the BLM medic with a hand-gun (they are together in a BLM photo) who shot first (it is a pure DNC miracle of knowing that the "medic" shot twice in the air).

It is certain that proliferation of guns in situations like this must lead to bad outcomes. But the US challenge, just as everywhere else, is how to achieve a monopoly over having guns. Thus the hate against the 2nd amendment. The DNCers would have loved for the boy to be beaten to death or shot by their troopers without a chance to defend himself.

Yes, the front line of the DNC field troopers are the white criminals recruited and trained by their NGOs. Those are ready to attack boys even when armed with guns, thinking that they can win - and they did - a bullet in the brain and in the stomach.

Posted by: Kiza | Aug 28 2020 7:46 utc | 156

Trump is selling himself as the candidate who will maintain Law and Order and Biden as the candidate who will allow Anarchy and Chaos.

So an increase in rioting and vandalism actually play into Trump's hands, as it gives him an excuse to crack down.

Posted by: Malchik Ralf | Aug 28 2020 8:01 utc | 157

The worst thing though, was that he was surrounded by cop cars, and armoured personnel carriers, and they made no attempt to stop him or interrogate him (as we know he was not arrested until the following day, back home), did not even get out of their vehicles, although they would have heard many shots. If he'd been a black brandishing a gun like that, he would have been instantly shot dead. Blake was only supposed to have had a knife hidden in his car, which he was not in, not brandishing an AR15 in full view in his hands. I don't think I've ever seen a clearer example of racist behaviour on the part of the cops.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 28 2020 7:30 utc | 156

Both cases are just Police practices and protocols being horridly failing during law enforcement.

For Blake these cops are seeing him as their threat. It keep me puzzled on how the cop just doesn't tackle him to the ground for noncompliance. If we are to know there are racism motivating the cop gun downs there might be previous account of racism from this particular officer.

For Kyle he brandished his AR not in a way threatening to the police hence they do not find Kyle to be their threat. Their failure however is when they let civilians to continue shooting against another civilians without even trying to bring Kyle into their custody immediately after the fact.

Posted by: Lucci | Aug 28 2020 8:06 utc | 158

Vigilantism arises when the state fails to protect its citizens. In the absence of the state people will organize their own defense. Defund the police and the people will mobilize to defend themselves. It really isn’t rocket science. The longer these “peaceful protests” are allowed to continue the greater the likelihood of armed militias being formed and taking the law into their own hands.

You don’t want armed militias, well then the police better do their jobs.

Posted by: Down South | Aug 28 2020 8:12 utc | 159

You don’t want armed militias, well then the police better do their jobs.

their job is to uphold the law. that also applies to the police themselves.

that has been the problem all along.

you make it seem like a choice between police free of responsibility for excessive force and armed Mau-Mau rape gangs invading our neighborhoods.

Posted by: Malchik Ralf | Aug 28 2020 8:29 utc | 160

If Trump supporters can shoot as well as this kid, he needs not fear.

Just say the word.

Posted by: Smith | Aug 28 2020 8:51 utc | 161

The problem goes way back to Cointel Pro, MK Ultra and the way black areas (and anti war protesters) were intentionally criminalized and destabilized by drugs produced in labs and brought in by CIA linked warlords.

The US started off as a colonial society and there is no way to overcome this birth defect as long as they continue to try and colonize the world. I hear "Chinese" is the new enemy.

You can bet that "antifa" is not anti-fascist but a secret service agent-provocateur operation.

No one likes being defined by the way they look, their sex, their age, their sexual orientation, their parents, the area they live in or by their job.

Managers have been trained in diversity but when you look at board rooms the majority of people tend to look the same. It is not as bad as in the 1950's but still.

It is an interpersonal problem that can be solved by culture but not by politics.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 28 2020 9:20 utc | 162

Richie McGinniss, the Daily Caller’s chief video director, said Thursday that he interviewed alleged Kenosha, Wis., shooter Kyle Rittenhouse who said that he believed there was a "lack of law and order" and that he was there to help amid ongoing demonstrations
This, to me, is a revealing interview of the reporter at the scene in Kenosha who administered first aid to the first man who was shot in the head. His name is Richie McGinniss, works for Daily Caller. He interviewed the shooter just before the shooting.

Based on his perspective, I think Rittenhouse was reacting to being threatened. It's possible he was there trying to do "the right thing".
Watch the video.

McGinniss said he interviewed the 17-year-old for about two and a half minutes about “why he was there,” “why he was armed” and “what exactly his intentions were.”

“He did say that there was a lack of law and order in the area and that in the absence of police, he was providing that,” McGinniss said, adding that Rittenhouse said he was a certified EMT and came to provide medical aid to protesters.

Posted by: migueljose | Aug 28 2020 10:04 utc | 163

Rittenhouse was defending himself...

Posted by: Garliv | Aug 28 2020 10:08 utc | 164

It could change until election day (rather unlikely), but right now a vast majority of Dem voters think the election will be rigged for Trump and a vast majority of Reps feel the same way for Biden.
So whoever win will have a furious half of the country against him.
What will leadership do then?

Will Trump recognize he lost, present excuses and go? It doesn't look he will... And if he doesn't, what will his (armed) supporters will do? If they start occupying official buildings what will local police do? What will Trump controlled federal forces do?

And if Trump wins, what would Biden and establishment Dems do? Conceit defeat a second time in an unloosable election and let the left side take over? Or go with its red hot electorate furious of being stolen an election for a second time in a raw (because they believe the Russian hack)? It is worth reminding that if establishment Dems still control the party it is thanks to the Russian story. It should also be noted that if it goes regime change, K Harris' police sympathies would prove useful.

Now the funny twist of history is that the pattern of preemptively claim opponents' fraud and either win an election or make revolution (electoral blackmail) has been the hallmark of US regime change operations. In the same vein as Cambridge Analityca, used to rig election for the US in Latin America and then for Trump's victory. It is a logic trend in History that tools designed for colonial purposes came back with a vengeance. It happened with concentration camps, terror bombing and mass extermination from European colonies to European mainland.

But then maybe sanity will suddenly raise up in the next two months...

Posted by: Saracen's head | Aug 28 2020 10:42 utc | 165

As an european citizen, that thread is akward, to say the least.

A place where a 17 yo teen is allowed to carry an AR15 is cursed and cannot be told as civilized.

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilisation in between. — Oscar Wilde.

Posted by: Herr Hesser | Aug 28 2020 10:44 utc | 166

Posted by: Saracen's head | Aug 28 2020 10:42 utc | 165

"right now a vast majority of Dem voters think the election will be rigged for Trump and a vast majority of Reps feel the same way for Biden"

Well, the thing is that both of them are right. Vast industries are devoted to rigging our elections, billions of $ are spent on it.

Our managers like us divided as long as we are not thinking about them.

I've about decided to vote 3rd party again, I'm not willing to get behind either of these Bozos.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 28 2020 11:03 utc | 167

Lucci @158: "It keep me puzzled on how the cop just doesn't tackle [Blake] to the ground for noncompliance."

Women and effeminate girlie-men police officers (the Kenosha PD is trying to be inclusive) do not tackle former linebackers to the ground very well. It is certainly not safe for them to attempt to do so.

Laguerre @154: "...we know [Rittenhouse] was not arrested until the following day, back home..."

The Rittenhouse character turned himself in to the police without drama. He was not arrested at home. The Blake character had an existing warrant out for him and resisted arrest in a mandatory arrest situation (domestic disturbance calls are mandatory arrest in Wisconsin to protect women from potentially violent men). Hopefully you are not blinded by hysteria like some others and can see the difference and guess how that might influence police behavior.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 28 2020 11:10 utc | 168

Jackrabbit @135

Yes, Rittenhouse was on the phone to the 911 operator.

Jackrabbit @138

Thanks for the videos. They indeed do not show the kid attacking rioters and instead show him running away from them and defending himself. As I said, no first degree murder conviction will come of this. Too much evidence of self defense.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 28 2020 11:18 utc | 169

Bemildred @167

I want Trump to win because it will hasten the decline of empire and get us through this painful period quicker. Dragging out the empire's death throes longer does no good for anybody except a handful of oligarchs, and not even all of them. But I cannot bring myself to vote for Trump. I'll probably vote Green again this election too. Howie Hawkins seems to not be bad.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 28 2020 11:27 utc | 170

Whoever talked that kid into this stupidity should be made famous for their sheer immorality and complete lack of intellect.
Anyone that thinks a 17 year old kid has the psychological and or emotional wherewithal to deal with a situation like this deserves to be exposed for the idiot(s) they truly are.

This scenario plays out all over the world countless times due to covert agencies owned and operated by the elite of several nations. What a pity we allow the most sociopathic and psychopathic among us to lead us.

Posted by: dave | Aug 28 2020 11:29 utc | 171

'Mostly Peaceful' Rioting And Looting Is Helping Trump's Campaign.
Trump brought back the 1918 Pandemic + 1929 Depression + 1968 Race Riots all together at the same time. If the race riots help Trump's campaign now, the only thing missing for his re-election is a war like 1945.

Posted by: Iguana | Aug 28 2020 11:30 utc | 172

A friend of the third “victim” from the hospital typing into FB:
I just talked to Gaige Grosskreutz too,” Marshall wrote. “His only regret was not killing the kid and hesitating to pull the gun before emptying the entire mag into him.

“Should’ve killed him right there and then,” Marshall added.

Both Marshall and Grosskreutz’s Facebook pages have been set to private, but multiple screenshots of the comments circulated on Twitter on Thursday evening.

Sorry DNCers, you just do not recruit your thugs based on intelligence. The case for self defence is now firmly established.
No DNC pension for Grosskreutz, unlike those who offed Seth Rich.

Posted by: Kiza | Aug 28 2020 11:35 utc | 173

Posted by: Herr Hesser | Aug 28 2020 10:44 utc | 166

Don't be so sure you are safe. If parents think their kid needs a gun, they will have a gun in Germany. If parents don't lock up their gun safely their crazy kid might shoot. And if your kid is crafty your kid might 3D print their weapon.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 28 2020 11:46 utc | 174

Meh, back then 15 is old enough for war.

If it takes a 17 year old to disperse a mob, so be it. It proves that a kid learning how to shoot gun is more beneficial than the 20s-30s year old who "learn" to riot and shoot dopes, such as the attackers of this kid.

Posted by: Smith | Aug 28 2020 11:50 utc | 175

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 28 2020 11:27 utc | 170

"I want Trump to win because it will hasten the decline of empire"

I can see your POV, but Biden (as Obama observed) has a great ability to f**k things up too. I tend to think Trump is a safer bet than Biden, more in touch with reality, less likely to blow a gasket and do something really stupid.

But I think the truth is that what happens here is going to depend a lot on what people who are not here decide to do about us. I started to think that way back during the reign of Bush the Lesser, and the feeling gets stronger all the time ...

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 28 2020 11:58 utc | 176

@ all

You realize you're not living in the world of ideas, do you? Convincing yourselves (and others here) that Jacob Blake deserved to get seven bullets to the back and that the two dead deserved their fates will not bring your precious USA back. Entropy is a bitch.

The death of Archduke Franz Ferdinand didn't cause WWI. Gessius Florus didn't cause the First Roman-Jewish War. Etc. etc.

Stop wasting your time with virtue signalling and CSI-Miami here in this forum.


Death Was the Theme of Both the RNC and the DNC

The author's blatant pro-Biden position is too much over the top, but you can feel the spirit: 2020 is not 1965.

Even when writting a pro-Biden piece, the author is having difficulty selling the product. The most he can get is "the least worse" narrative. There's no reason to celebrate in the Empire, whoever wins in November.


@ Posted by: robert | Aug 28 2020 6:40 utc | 151

You can put the moral code you want. Everything is valid in public life.

But the realpolitik is this: the moment you declare you're going to kill your political enemy, you're automatically putting your own life (and your family's) in the line, because you're giving your enemy the same de facto right. That's how the real world works.


@ Posted by: Down South | Aug 28 2020 8:12 utc | 159

The problem is the police became the vigilantes first. The riots in Kenosha are the counter-vigilantism of the police.

It's the same dilemma about the fall of the Roman Empire in the West that has always fascinated future Western historians: where were the legions?

Posted by: vk | Aug 28 2020 12:04 utc | 177

@59 Kevin

Thank you! You are correct, lots of fantasy talk on this topic. The Left, like the Democratic Party, no longer deals with reality. It prefers fantasy stories it can manipulate. Perfect example is the suggestion the militias are working with the Deep State. A ridiculous assumption. Who opposes the lock downs? Who will resist mandatory vaccinations? The Left love all these things - like this site endlessly pushing Pandemic Paranoia. I'm from Canada. I know what a Kafkaesque leftist bureaucratic tyranny is like. We don't have the rioting because the Left have a total lock on this country. Plus all Soros money is heading to the USA to fund Antifa and BLM terrorism.

The people destroying American cities are the ones working with the Deep State. They may be useful idiots and not even realize who they are serving. Nevertheless, "divide and conquer" is alive and well in America. To suggest the militias - who, until this 17 year old came along, have been all talk and no action - are working with the Deep State is your typical left wing propaganda. "The people burning and looting aren't to blame. It's those white guys fault!" Give me a break.

Posted by: EoinW | Aug 28 2020 12:04 utc | 178

Well, I read all the way through.

In my US youth we trained with .30 cal simiauto rifles at public school, and had also at public school, rifle teams that used .22 target rifles. Wally was the only white guy on the teams (there were several schools)... The racial stuff was all there, but so also was an intact industrial plant... a fella couldn't walk down the street without stumbling into a job. Welder, fitter, fabricator, assembly line work, foundries and forges and shipyards and mines were running double shifts and the unions were strong...even rich people were afraid to cross a picketline...and the income tax was about 75%...

In a long and adventurous life slumming 'round I have been threatened with guns dozens of time...Every Time a cop was holding the gun, with "one up the spout" (it's "policy") and finger on the trigger. Not once was there an arrest. Not once. Beatdachitoutta, well, several times, kidnapped too, but never actually arrested. Actually pretty much a boyscout. And white. Yes, the cops are azzhones, like Dylan said, the cops doaneed you and man they expect the same.

I think the "problem" with the views here @ MoA in regard the "civil war" lies in fundamental assumptions.

Simply try assuming that the US has ended, what you're seeing is denouement. Then forget about's like chemistry, and "da fat's in da fire". Outcome is backed in. Like the corpse rotting back to it's constituent chemistry.

Igor Panarin's prediction, and also Deagle's prediction, may well be the proximate situation when the reaction bombe cools off.

The fact that a delusional "ruling class" is at war with itself as well as the common people stands as strong evidence...

Posted by: Walter | Aug 28 2020 12:05 utc | 179

Bemildred @176

Well, yeah, Biden straight up has dementia. Depending upon the time of day he probably thinks it is the 1970s again and he's back in Scranton. But Biden would enter office with a "normalcy" credit from the world, like Obama entered office with his "peace" credit and Nobel Peace prize. The US will be able to get away with lots more drone killings and bombings without international criticism if Biden wins. With Trump remaining in office and bullying the empire's vassals the US will get more resistance in its international slaughter campaigns. A more immediate example of this is that with Biden in office that hag Merkel will no longer be torn between East and West and will instead fully turn West.

Sure, in the longer view there is no difference between Trump and Biden, but in the shorter term I think Trump will give us more pain but for a shorter period of time, while Biden will drag the same amount of pain out over a longer period. You want that rotted tooth of imperial decay extracted agonizingly quickly, or slow and over the course of much more time? There's gonna be lots of pain either way.

Of course, I cannot vote for pain, either slow or fast, so I think Howie gets my vote.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 28 2020 12:19 utc | 180

Bemildred @176: "...what happens here is going to depend a lot on what people who are not here decide to do about us..."

You think there might be international intervention in the US? I am more worried it will most likely be the kind Germany experienced in 1945. No modern day equivalent of the Peace Corps handing out boxes of powdered milk and teaching us Chinese so we can integrate with the new world economy for quite some time, I'm afraid.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 28 2020 12:26 utc | 181

@ WD #180 "I think Howie gets my vote."

Whoz Howie?

@ Anoxia there are few people and any outlier vote - say a write in for Putin, outta show up...

Just a simple game. I expect the 'lection to be swept away by the tides and probably by hotwar and famine.

Posted by: Walter | Aug 28 2020 12:28 utc | 182

to psychohistorian...

well all your arguments fall on the dustbin.
about the teenager... their assaulter have weapons, they follow him an tried to get his weapon off him (nice rifle for Free, sure a big tentation)

just look at the video, it is clear enough.

anything else is disinformation or Propaganda.

Posted by: Ilusionist | Aug 28 2020 12:29 utc | 183

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 28 2020 12:26 utc | 181

Well, 1945-style was definitely on the spectrum of possibilities, mad dogs have to be put down.

But a variety of things could be done to contain the problem while it works itself out as well. I can't think it likely anybody would want to jump in until some semblance of order returns. If we go all Fortress America and withdraw into outselves, as long as we are not a threat, I expect we would be allowed to do that.

Yeah, Peace Corps, Kennedy, what could have been ...

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 28 2020 12:34 utc | 184

Trump is going to win by a bigger margin than he did in 2016.

The progressive left is going to be blamed.

The senior leaders in the democratic party are going to be replaced by younger centrists not from CA or MA or NY.

People will only invest in social justice, the environment and other things when they first feel safe. Bottom line.

Posted by: DanP66 | Aug 28 2020 12:35 utc | 185


to find common cause
with white gun and black fire
would worry the oligarchs
and make them perspire

as it now stands
they smile and agree
dividing and conquering
is really that easy

deep-rutted channels
keep people in check
with predictable outbursts
when they go for the neck

always unscathed
those tugging the strings
blood soaks the pavement
while their boardrooms stay clean

Posted by: lizard | Aug 28 2020 13:09 utc | 186

Food for thought:

The FBI warned for years that police are cozy with the far right. Is no one listening?

Modern-day white supremacists have a thesis they usually call "The Great Replacement/Displacement", which states that birth rates and migration/immigration by non-whites is white genocide (the Christchurch shooter's manifesto begins with this subject). In this light, it would not be that weird to think that some white supremacist cops wake up in the morning and go to work with killing at least one black man per day in mind.

Posted by: vk | Aug 28 2020 13:12 utc | 187

Walter @182

Howie Hawkins is a relatively vanilla anarcho-syndicalist running for Prez for the US Green Party. He has got far more socialist creds than Sanders ever had, but his political life has not been too successful. Being that America has a capitalist version of democracy, those two points about Howie are probably related.

You're right about tides and the election, though, particularly if the backlash against the riots crests before November. My vote for Howie is just to keep from buying into either team that the establishment puts forward... just salves my own conscience, basically.

Let's hope Trump wins and realizes that hot war is bad for golf courses, casinos, and elite resorts, `cuz we both know that wars are good for the likes of Goldman-Sachs.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 28 2020 13:20 utc | 188

Lot's of folks defending vigilante law as if it can't backfire on them some day. Funny how they don't even need all the evidence to call self defense when the kid went out of his way to insert himself into a confrontation he could easily have avoided and ended up shooting people over what was most certainly insured property that didn't belong to him.
Then we have the people on here defending property over life, pretending to hold the moral high ground despite the fact they're doing the work of the elite by eroding the practice of due process.
I've noticed lately how the gun nuts only want justice for themselves and want revenge on everyone else they deem unworthy. They don't believe in justice unless it's violent and permanent. Sounds like fear has overcome their thought process and better judgement.
Tricking a kid into killing two people and injuring another is the real crime. This kid will have to live with this the rest of his life. Being the useful idiot of children posing as adults on both sides who are incapable of understanding they are the useful idiots of their own countries foreign policy being used against them to manipulate yet another election just like the US(and other countries) have been doing for centuries now.
The human race has not evolved very far psychologically or emotionally at all. We still fight each other over which bloodline of psychopathic pedophiles and thieves will lead us.

Posted by: dave | Aug 28 2020 13:20 utc | 189

Lets not forget numbers. Most of the population in the US is not really effectd by the protests. Like major leaguue sports companies come out with statements about racism etc. That is such an easy out. In the day of images it looks and sounds good but in the end is meaningless. In the US today it honestly will take corporations taking a firm stand and using their position to change things. As it stands most americans do not encounter the riots anymore than we tall about endless wars. The news needs something to fill the space and the politicians use it for points. Did compaines know or take part in the systemic oppression, yes they are the cause (some are as in financial companies). I see no plan to stop the source of the issue and it starts with the elected officials. I am not seeing much movement there, it will not be resolved till it effect more people and the bottom line of companies and major league sports. Those groups will get the elected officials to change. Unfortunately there is more Kenosha's in our future.


Posted by: Oz | Aug 28 2020 13:26 utc | 190

Bemildred | Aug 28 2020 12:34 utc | 184 (occupation)

[as the corpse rots]regional spokesmen will find by circumstance that they are obliged to request foreign help. Inter alia, there are vastly dangerous industrial sites and military storage loci and also of course atomwaste and "poot" - and a starving population. Any force to feed and police will then be invited in...and of course with a referendum one can make a Kosovo/Crimea exit from the corpse. Ethics is mostly circumstance and options. Of course timing is essential, the invite(s) have to be welcomed by most all, when Murkinz get tired of dying and hungry 'nuf...

It would be very nice if the outside interference included paying the pensions...don't expect that. But I note that there is reason to expect occupation - there are plans afoot for trials - and occupation must happen first. Ergo, Ivan and Mr Chine expect to have to do occupation... (I'd prefer the Russians, call me racist, but it's a cultural reality that it would go better with the Ruskie MP's)

Hope Wally lives long enough to witness the trials...

Posted by: Walter | Aug 28 2020 13:26 utc | 191

Bemildred @184: "If we go all Fortress America and withdraw into ourselves, as long as we are not a threat, I expect we would be allowed to do that."

That is the best possible outcome that I can imagine at this point. Several decades of deep introspection would be really good for America. Give this hysteria that's gripping the country some time to burn itself out and maybe real philosophy will have a chance to return. Perhaps that could be started by Trump sanctioning the entire planet, building his walls, and then the US will just become a blank spot on the map to the rest of the world... a coronavirus no man's land that everyone else just ignores for half century or so.

Yeah, that would actually be a far better future for us and the world than what I fear.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 28 2020 13:32 utc | 192

Posted by: somebody | Aug 28 2020 11:46 utc | 174

Don't be so sure you are safe. If parents think their kid needs a gun, they will have a gun in Germany. If parents don't lock up their gun safely their crazy kid might shoot. And if your kid is crafty your kid might 3D print their weapon.

Living in that West-in-decline, I don't feel safe, trust me.

AFAIK, an AR15 is considered as a wartime firearm in France (my homeland) and can only be carried by professional army men under strict state authorization. You can still buy an AK47 in one of our urban no-go zones ("cités" or "técis" if you speak "wesh") but that's highly illegal and risky.

The problem is not about getting a firearm, there is always a way to get one if you're willing to. The problem is about considering firearms are required in your everyday life.

Firearm is not a basic need in the collective mind of western european people. Its use is restricted to police and military forces. Hunters are allowed to possess firearms with a license and to use them during their practice but they must lock them the rest of the time. Quarrels rarely ends with a shooting in Europe.

Europe Vs. US on gun ownership?

PS: Forgive my english, Frenchs are somewhat crappy w/ foreign languages.

Posted by: Herr Hesser | Aug 28 2020 13:35 utc | 193

lizard @186

Absolutely. If Boogaloos and Blacks team up and find their common ground to fight for, then it is game over for the elites.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 28 2020 13:36 utc | 194

I might add that I heard personal stories of Red occupation of Vienna from a married Jewish couple who lived there through the nazi period. She was not raped. They said the Red Army did ok, under the circumstances. The husband was a judge on a state supreme court... This informs my expectations. Call it provincial, it's what I got, and from others.

I also note that a Eurasian Unification is, long term, liable to subsume the Slavic identity - and long-term, Ru and North American interests seem to align. And also that geopolitics has in the past created alignments 'tween Russia and the North American population, sometimes with the NA Governments.

Posted by: Walter | Aug 28 2020 13:37 utc | 195

dave @189

Everyone present that night was inserting themselves into a confrontation. That's too many people are ignoring.

I've been to many protests in my time, but never at night. The only night actions I've ever seen have been walking the picket lines when the bosses have tried to sneak scabs in for the third shift.

These are not "protests" that we are seeing. They are riots. They exist to create confrontation. They succeeded.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 28 2020 13:43 utc | 196

Posted by: Walter | Aug 28 2020 13:26 utc | 191

Trials would be interesting, more than I had hoped for, so we come full circle. I remember the seriousness with which international law and human rights were once discussed here, perhaps that could happen again.

But you don't need to occupy us and try to make things work here to do that.

I expect to starve, comes to that, it's not that tricky and probably beats cancer anyway. An old tradition really.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 28 2020 13:43 utc | 197

Herr Hesser | Aug 28 2020 13:35 utc | 193 (Ar15 & guns in murka)

Most of the US is rural and people need their guns for practical use, and, as you see, the cops are not helpers but enforcers and thugs (at least often) practical use means also creating the disinclination to steal and assault... Everybody knows that busting into a house is liable to result in getting shot.

Most Americans are entirely ok with everybody having a gun. Me too. However I am appalled when people wave them around, especially when cops wave them around.

They stopped teaching gun safety at public schools about 1968...much of what we see now come from that change. Kids imagine it's a game...

Posted by: Walter | Aug 28 2020 13:47 utc | 198

migueljose @Aug28 10:04 #163

“He did say that there was a lack of law and order in the area and that in the absence of police, he was providing that,” McGinniss said, adding that Rittenhouse said he was a certified EMT and came to provide medical aid to protesters.

Rittenhouse is a disturbed teen, apparently from a broken home, that was looking for trouble and found it.

He is completely delusional if he thinks he's bringing law and order to a riot. He brought death and misery. And his "medical aid" seems like nothing but a cover. Medics don't carry guns.

Those praising Rittenhouse are just egging on the next teen gun nut hoping to live out his video game-inspired fantasies.

<> <> <> <> <>

The militia vs. Antifa was bound to end in tragedy. Judging by the swift and uncritical response from Trump supporters about a 17-year old providing "law and order", I'd say that the Trump supporters/militia hoped that some useful idiot would get into a deadly confrontation.

Antifa, which does the good service of turning peaceful protests into riots for the evening news, clearly recruits a different kind of useful idiot.

The only beneficiary to the "mostly peaceful rioting" is the political establishment that WANTS to impose a harsher Police State and only needs to create conditions for people to welcome it.

There is a major war on the horizon and USA Military is obsessed with not "repeating the mistake of Vietnam" - they will not lose the war on the 'home front'.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 28 2020 13:47 utc | 199

We are privileged to live in a world where we can watch the Imperialist States of Amerikastan slide before our eyes into social collapse and civil war. It is beautiful and worth living for.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 28 2020 13:49 utc | 200

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