Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 22, 2020

U.S. Claims Diplomatic Immunity For Covid-19 - Shuts Down Chinese Consulate

On Tuesday the U.S. government ordered the closure of the Chinese consulate in Houston, Texas. The move comes amongst a slew of factless accusations of Chinese hacking and surveillance.

While Trump, like Biden, is using anti-China propaganda as part of his campaign, the closure of the Houston consulate has nothing to do with it. But U.S. media fail to mention the real and unreasonable motive behind this move:

The United States ordered China to close its diplomatic consulate in Houston within 72 hours, dealing another blow to the rapidly deteriorating relations between the two countries. China promptly vowed to retaliate, calling the move illegal.

The State Department said the closure was made in response to repeated Chinese violations of American sovereignty, including “massive illegal spying and influence operations.”

The unmentioned reason for the State Department's move is a squabble over virus testing and quarantining of U.S. diplomats who are supposed to return to China.

In January, when the first outbreak of Covid-19 happened in the Chinese city of Wuhan the U.S. evacuated its consulate in the city. In total some 1,300 diplomats and their family members were moved out of China in January and February.

In June, after China had defeated the outbreak, the U.S. announced that that it diplomats would return:

U.S. ambassador to China, Terry Branstad, “intends to resume operations in Wuhan in the near future”, Frank Whitaker, minister counselor for Public Affairs at the embassy, said in an email to Reuters, without giving a specific date.

But by then the U.S. had become Cootiestan while China had defeated the virus. Chinese public health officials insisted on testing and quarantining everyone who entered from the U.S. to protect their country from another outbreak.

The State Department however rejected that:

The United States has postponed flights for dozens of American diplomats who had planned to return to China later this month, after failing to reach agreement with Beijing over issues including COVID-19 testing and quarantine.
In a previously unreported June 30 email, Terry Branstad, the U.S. ambassador to China, told the mission staff that two charter flights for diplomats returning to Shanghai and Tianjin planned for July 8 and July 10 respectively had been scrapped and would be rescheduled.

“Protecting the health and safety of our community remains our guiding principle and our top priority in this unprecedented situation,” Branstad wrote. “This means that flight plans will not be confirmed until we have reached an agreement that meets these goals.”
A spokesperson for China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said there had been close communication regarding the return of U.S. diplomats to China.

“The virus is still spreading overseas and China continues to be under a fair amount of pressure to prevent the import of cases from overseas,” the spokesperson said in fax response to Reuters’ questions.

“The epidemic control measures for the diplomatic corps in China are applied equally across the board. China strives to preserve its hard-won achievement in countering the virus together with the diplomatic corps, and to provide good conditions and a good living environment for everyone to work and live in China.”

I have found no U.S. media which reported on this diplomatic conflict. Only Reuters and Asia Times noted it.

China's request to test and to quarantine for fourteen days everyone who is coming from abroad is not unreasonable. New York, New Jersey and Connecticut demand similar for people coming from Florida and Texas. China has already had an expensive second outbreak with several hundred of cases in Beijing that was traced back to a visitor from abroad. It does not want another one.

The U.S. says that its diplomats are immune under the Vienna Conventions. But Chinese officials claim that the virus is not a party of those agreements. They insist that legal and disease immunity are not the same:

While Beijing agrees that US envoys and emissaries should retain their diplomatic immunity, China’s public health authority insists no one is immune to the highly contagious novel coronavirus, and that the nation must not expose itself to the risk of returning Americans infecting the local population.
Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian said on Thursday that Beijing would accord courteous and equitable treatment to all foreign representatives. He also revealed that his ministry had already “fast-tracked procedures” and helped a “plane load” of US diplomats to return to China at the end of May, without confirming if they had all been quarantined upon arrival.

On his Weibo account, Zhao also took a swipe at Washington’s call for China to be more hospitable, saying if US President Donald Trump wants Americans to feel more welcome elsewhere, he should “make America well again,” alluding to the alarming resurgence of the respiratory disease across the country.

But other posts on Weibo noted that when the first batch of about 60 US diplomats flew into Tianjin at the end of May, they were immediately flanked by more than 150 paramedics in hazmat gear, who whisked them to a fully-enclosed facility on the tarmac to collect their saliva samples. These Americans then spent more hours than their flight to China waiting in a partitioned lounge before Chinese doctors could given them a clean slate and allow them to leave.

The squabble continues. The U.S. diplomats have not returned and the consulate in Wuhan has still not reopened. The U.S. order to close the Chinese consulate in Houston is obviously an attempt to press China into lifting its testing and quarantine demands for U.S. diplomats.

The BBC falsely claimed that the Houston consulate was ordered to close because of a fire:


That however turns cause and effect around. The consulate in Houston started to burn its confidential papers after it was informed that it had to close within 72 hours:

The consulate was informed of the decision Tuesday, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin said, calling it "an outrageous and unjustified move that will sabotage relations between the two countries."
KHOU-TV reports authorities responded to reports of a fire at the Chinese Consulate. Witnesses said people were burning paper in what appeared to be trash cans, the Houston Chronicle reported, citing police.
Houston police said in a tweet that officers responded to "a meet the firefighter" call at the Chinese Consulate building at 3417 Montrose Blvd. The tweet said smoke was observed in an outdoor courtyard area, and that officers were not allowed to enter the building.

The real motive for the consulate closure can be discerned from the State Department's coded statement:

The U.S., in a brief statement, did not provide any details on why the consulate in Texas was targeted.

"The United States will not tolerate (China's) violations of our sovereignty and intimidation of our people, just as we have not tolerated (its) unfair trade practices, theft of American jobs, and other egregious behavior," said the statement, which was attributed to State Department spokesperson Morgan Ortagus.

The "violations of our sovereignty and intimidation of our people" are an obvious reference to the Chinese demands towards arriving diplomats.

In a tit for tat reaction the Chinese government is likely to permanently close the U.S. consulate in Wuhan:

Late on Tuesday in Houston, media reported that documents had been burned in a courtyard at the consulate. Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin said the consulate was operating normally, declining to comment further on those reports.
“We urge the U.S. to immediately revoke this erroneous decision. Should it insist on going down this wrong path, China will react with firm countermeasures.”
A source with direct knowledge of the matter said China was considering closing the U.S. consulate in Wuhan, where the State Department withdrew staff and their families early this year amid the coronavirus outbreak that first emerged in the central city.

Closing the consulate in Wuhan will of course solve the problem for the U.S. diplomats who left Wuhan during the January outbreak and now expect to be allowed to return without being tested.

That all U.S. media which I have read on the issue have failed to mention the diplomatic spat about testing should be of concern.

But it of course relieves them from explaining the unreasonable behavior of the State Department which demands that its cooties infested diplomats can return to China without taking the necessary precautions.

Posted by b on July 22, 2020 at 16:36 UTC | Permalink

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J W 101

I guess if there was a Paralympics for the mentally disabled, yankistan would come away with a lot of gold.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 3:43 utc | 101

Re Portland.
No organised movement is leaderless. Hong Kong - a lot of decent people out on the streets at the start. China let it run until ... a few different things, the decent people perhaps started to feel they were being used - it messed up the lives of normal people from shitkickers to business people who had to work for a living - and the leaders of the leaderless revolution were having their happy snaps taken with all sorts of arseholes in the US regime change portfolio.

If it looks like Trump will lose, those decent people that have been sucked in to front the regime change operation will be safe, but if it looks like Trump is winning, then some of them will die.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 3:58 utc | 102

I would be very curious to learn if there was even ONE. SINGLE. ADULT. in the American political establishment.

Posted by: rgl | Jul 23 2020 3:59 utc | 103

Has anyone else noticed that orders of Chinese merchandise shipped to the US have been getting waylaid for weeks by a USPS "partner" carrier after arriving in the buyer's city, while USPS is putatively "awaiting receipt from partner carrier"? That has been my experience monitoring tracking with many of my recent orders. As a result, the shipping time estimates by Chinese sellers on eBay have gotten much longer. I wonder if the new Postmaster, who is a Trump campaign donor, is purposely doing this in order to discourage consumers from buying Chinese products. It wouldn't surprise me.

Posted by: norecovery | Jul 23 2020 4:01 utc | 104

@Peter AU #85

Thanks for the correction.

Posted by: Oscar Peterson | Jul 23 2020 4:17 utc | 105

Posted by: norecovery | Jul 23 2020 4:01 utc | 105

"Has anyone else noticed that orders of Chinese merchandise shipped to the US have been getting waylaid for weeks by a USPS "partner""

USPS suck... Trump Suck. Bought a clipper in Ebay. Seller immediately clipper the next day June 1 2020, via SpeedPak. Track from Shenzhen. Clipper arrived US, cleared custom NJ - 3 days. Took 27 days reached me. Previous cleared custom SFO, West Sacramento all-in-all 8days China to my home. Below SpeedPak tracking info:

"Delivered hair clipper, 9:45am 30 Jun 2020, Sparks NV, ZIP89441, Brisbane San Mateo CA94005
Jun 23, 8:37am arrival GREENWOOD, IN46143-9703 Jun 22, 2020, 2:14pm, MONROE TOWNSHIP, NJ08831 Jun 21, 12:12pm, arrival, NJ08831. 08 Jun 02:23 customs clearance completed US, Estimated delivery Fri, Jun 19, 2020 - Tues, Jul 14, 2020. Tracking number: ES99900835873135000xxxxxxx..0D, US$23.54,T-Blade Electric Cordless. Trimmer Rechargeable Hair Clipper.$21.75 Item 114230945265 SpeedPAK."

Track # purposely changed..

Posted by: JC | Jul 23 2020 4:54 utc | 106

"1) Defeat Trump and end GOP control of Senate."
You sound like you have drunk a little 'blue no matter who' kool-aide.
So what will a Biden/Schumer takeover do for the empire? Probably quiet it down... except for the red neck haters, which is a sizeable number of people.
Read some Glenn Ford.

Ford reminds us that Trump's version of fascism is only one form: "Donald Trump is an American fascist of the old, Jim Crow kind – but one who is also eager to utilize every modern tool of political and racial repression to preserve a capitalist system in fatal decline."
The DNC, he argues, expresses a more insidious and dangerous form of fascism: "They have, instead, been constructing a 21st century fascist order in which a tiny number of billionaires can rule without effective opposition, while much of the world is locked in a forced “Race to the Bottom” and all of humanity lives in terror of endless U.S. warfare."
Bottom line: don't get fixated on the horse race.

Posted by: migueljose | Jul 23 2020 5:03 utc | 107

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 3:58 utc | 103


We have a mad president fighting its citizens. There are many parties, State and Local government, BLM, Cops, State troopers and antifa.

Posted by: JC | Jul 23 2020 5:22 utc | 108

norecovery and JC

Interesting whats happening in the US. I had expected it to occur in five-eyes countries some time back. I buy in stuff that has always been imported from Europe or US. Deliveries are a little slower due to the bug but haven't been slowed geo-politically here in oz as yet.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 5:27 utc | 109

Posted by: norecovery | Jul 23 2020 4:01 utc | 105 Has anyone else noticed that orders of Chinese merchandise shipped to the US have been getting waylaid for weeks by a USPS "partner" carrier after arriving in the buyer's city

I did notice something similar with my hand sanitizer order. Aliexpress seller said they shipped it. I waited, but no record of actual shipment at the tracking site. The time for disputing the sale came up, I disputed, the seller wanted me to continue waiting, I said no since the tracking still showed the order had been allegedly delivered to the shipper but not actually shipped. So I couldn't tell if the seller could be trusted. In any event, I didn't trust the shipping firm. I read elsewhere that does happen with China shipments occasionally. Didn't have a problem with my masks or gloves, though. But eventually Aliexpress terminated the dispute as per policy and gave me a refund.

Then the stuff showed up weeks later. Can't remember whether that was a USPS issue or a UPS issue, though.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 23 2020 5:36 utc | 110

migueljose 108

I doubt karlof1 has drunk any party koolade. How about 'democracy' koolade? Are you hooked on that?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 5:37 utc | 111

RSH "But eventually Aliexpress terminated the dispute as per policy and gave me a refund."
"Then the stuff showed up weeks later."

So the Chinese sellers that had sold in good faith were fucked over?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 5:46 utc | 112

The yankistan government doesn't like Russian media covering their in house colour revolutions.
The Russian delegation will express its protest during the upcoming session of the OSCE Permanent Council, demanding that the US government observe the rights of reporters in relation to the recent attack on Russia’s Channel One reporters in the US city of Portland, Chairman of the Russian Federation Council (upper house of parliament) Media Policy Commission Alexei Pushkov told TASS on Wednesday.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 6:09 utc | 113

I listened to some Taiwan analysts discussing which US consulate that China would choose to shutdown as a reprisal.

Chengdu in Sichuan is the westernmost US consulate, closest to US operations in Xinjiang and Tibet. That would be sending a message about that.

Shenyang in northeast China is primarily a military-centered consulate, as it is closest to the two Koreas and the US radar and military base in South Korea.

one reason not to shutdown the HK consulate is to leave room for further escalation, if needed.

the Wuhan consulate is out of the picture, since it is already effectively non-operational. the Shanghai consulate would be equivalent to the NYC consulate, so it's not on par with Houston, so it probably is not a candidate. it would also be unnecessarily disruptive for commerce.

Posted by: occupatio | Jul 23 2020 6:11 utc | 114

Has anyone else noticed that orders of Chinese merchandise shipped ...

I buy a lot so semi-finished goods on Alibaba. I live in Switzerland, where the central bank can clear RMB/Yuan.

I have learned that it is impossible to buy through Alibaba in a currency other than USD, either cleared though Citibank at a usurious rate, or cleared by a major credit card company at a less usurious rate.

My experience is that Alibaba is designed to funnel USD into China.

Posted by: Ali Buyer | Jul 23 2020 6:12 utc | 115

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 5:46 utc | 113

When buy anything from China, be patient, wait as long as possible. I had never, never been cheated yet all my buying years in Ebay. I took the position, sellers in China mostly honest and trying to survive. They make a few pennies to a few dollars. It's USPS and freaking Trump screwing us!

The T-Blade Electric Cordless. Trimmer Rechargeable Hair Clipper cost $21.75, plus tax = US$23.54, If buy locally NOT available not even Harbor Freight. Online, made in China costing over $60.

Posted by: JC | Jul 23 2020 6:12 utc | 116

My experience is that Alibaba is designed to funnel USD into China.

With a sweetener for US financial institutions.

Posted by: Ali Buyer | Jul 23 2020 6:14 utc | 117

JC 117

I have never had a problem buying from China. I buy something, they send it. Quality is something to be careful of though. I buy a sample first. Have advised a few people on buying from China and they have had good experiences.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 6:26 utc | 118

Ali Buyer 118

China tied the RMB to the US dollar which has been a smart move on their part. Its a pain having to pay for everything in yankistan dollars. Be interesting to see what the US dollar does in the coming months and what currencies China will trade in.

For China, hot or cold war with US is now inevitable. Best thing to destroy in a cold war is the dollar.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 6:33 utc | 119

Pushback. In yankistan's back yard.
"Mexico says China plans $1 billion loan to ease Latam access to virus vaccine
China plans to provide a $1 billion loan to make its coronavirus vaccine accessible for countries across Latin America and the Caribbean, the Mexican foreign ministry said on Wednesday.

In a statement, the ministry said China had made the pledge at a virtual meeting of ministers from some Latin American and Caribbean nations.

Mexican Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard and Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi presided at the event, where ministers discussed better cooperation to tackle the pandemic impact.

Argentina, Barbados, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Panama, Peru, Trinidad and Tobago and Uruguay also participated, the ministry added.

“The Chinese foreign minister stressed that the vaccine developed in his country will be a public good of universal access, and that his country will provide a $1 billion loan to support the access of the nations of the region,” it said."

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 6:42 utc | 120

The brain drain is about to commence. Not because just because students stop coming to the west, but because professors will move to the east looking for students and laboratories.
"Another illustration of British dependency on China is the reliance of universities on Chinese students for their income. A recent report shows that many of Britain’s most prestigious universities are reliant on Chinese funds for up to one-third of their earned tuition fees."

Same here and same in yankistan.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 6:59 utc | 121

Nice watching the launch of the Long March 5B rocket carrying China's Mars ambitious rover and orbiter. Done with some cooperation with the European Space Agency, Argentina and the French and Austrians helped with some of the payload instrumentation. Of course China is barred from any cooperation with the US on space matters.

UAE just launched their Mars orbiter on a Mitsubishi Heavy Industries rocket from a Japanese spaceport. Help with instrumentation from UC Berkeley.

And, if all goes well, NASA should launch their Mars rover from covid-stricken Florida in a week or so, thundering into the sky on Russian РД-180 engines in an Atlas V. Russia apparently banned the US from using the engines on military launches in 2014 (didn't read too much about that in the news at the time).

Hopefully the US launch is successful, otherwise there will be an even more than normal insufferable outpouring of jealous accusations against China. There was even some of that when the (very high tech) European Mars orbiter started returning fantastic data.

Posted by: BillB | Jul 23 2020 6:59 utc | 122

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 5:46 utc | 113 So the Chinese sellers that had sold in good faith were fucked over?

Yup. I have no idea how I could pay them for the stuff once the refund arrived since I'd somehow have to go through Aliexpress presumably, unless I could get their direct address to send them a check - which I considered for about five seconds.

Anyway, I was sufficiently ticked off about the whole thing - especially since the seller tried to con me out of the dispute process when I couldn't know if it was his fault or not - that I couldn't care less.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 23 2020 7:07 utc | 123

Best thing to destroy in a cold war is the dollar.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 6:33 utc | 120

Gradually, then suddenly.

China's Long March-5 Y4 carrier rocket, alongside its Mars probe, blasted off at 12:41 p.m. on Thursday from Wenchang Spacecraft Launch Site in south China's Hainan Province.

Posted by: Ali Buyer | Jul 23 2020 7:10 utc | 124

As an addendum, if I'd known it was likely a USPS issue, I would have given them the benefit of the doubt and waited longer. But then I'd be trusting USPS - which is a non-starter, too. If the seller doesn't want to get screwed, make sure the stuff gets here by a shipper he can trust. He doesn't have to ship USPS.

Also I've read that the issue is tracking info doesn't always get displayed as it should. I couldn't see tracking info for *any* of my purchases *until it actually *arrived*. That's just stupid.

Aliexpress has a dispute process, and it works, I can say that.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 23 2020 7:14 utc | 125


My brother from Ozzie called today and we spoke for 1/2hr. To cut the story short. We disagree. I supported Xin Jinping, against Morrison and Trump. He supported Trump and Morrison. He is a few years older, migrated to Ozzie the early 70's.

He asked me a question, how many people did Mao Zedong kill? I replied millions. I said did you know Taiwan ruling party (KMT) chief meet Xi Jinping April 24, 2015 16:16 in Singapore? (see below video and webpage)

They (KMT and Commie) was trying to make up and bury the hatches? I further add do you wanna another China civil war and how many people gonna to die? Should the Chinese continue kill each again and who benefits?

I wish I could write well and express my sorrow...... How many more Chinese and White gonna die and for what?

Posted by: JC | Jul 23 2020 7:35 utc | 126

Xi to meet Taiwan leader in Singapore. (
Updated: 2015-11-04 07:50

I really wish China (Mainlander) and Taiwan reunited.

Posted by: JC | Jul 23 2020 7:42 utc | 127

Posted by: Passer by | Jul 22 2020 20:46 utc | 34

You seem to have missed that the pivot to Asia occurred during the Obama administration, not the Trump administration. Basically, the pivot to Asia was to attack/contain China, obviously.

Frankly, any USAian voting either Democrat or Republican in November is an Idiot sending the wrong message to the "elite", reinforcing the status quo, that is, corporate and financial fascism. But what can one do, the USAians, including most contributing on this site are brainwashed into believing that they must vote for one of the two major parties on the theory that one of them is the lesser evil - heads or tails. The Idiocy Theory.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jul 23 2020 8:14 utc | 128

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 23 2020 7:14 utc | 125

Aliexpress has a dispute process, and it works, I can say that.

It does not work so well for larger amounts, they come down on the side of the seller unless you ship the stuff back with tracking (which is going to cost like $100 even for something light). Fortunately, 99% of the time the sellers are honest.

Posted by: BillB | Jul 23 2020 8:44 utc | 129

JC 127

That KMT is meeting with with Xi of communist China now - the first meeting in seventy years? I think they realize they are being set up as cannon fodder that US will use against China. US helped push Russia and China together. Perhaps in trying to start a war between Taiwan and China - if Taiwan is awake to what is happening, then the US may push Taiwan back to China.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 8:56 utc | 130

Posted by: JC | Jul 23 2020 7:35 utc | 126

You should've formulated a counterquestion asking whether Chairman Mao killed them all by himself with his bare hands or if he came around riding on a dragon decapitating his opponents with Excalibur.

Posted by: vato | Jul 23 2020 9:02 utc | 131

Peter AU1 #101

guess if there was a Paralympics for the mentally disabled, yankistan would come away with a lot of gold.

Only as long as they did not train at Fort Detrick. When the US military olympics team trained there in 2019 for the Wuhan Military Olympics, they won almost NO gold contrary to their usual performance.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 23 2020 9:10 utc | 132

JC #126

He asked me a question, how many people did Mao Zedong kill? I replied millions.

And how many died at the hands of neglect inflicted by the KMT? Perhaps the calculation might include the consequences of the Japanese invasion as well given that the KMT was too busy looting the land and people to defend it.

How many people have been lifted from servitude and poverty by the KMT and the CCP?

With respect, your brother might have posed the two questions above at the same time as he questioned the CCP. Unfortunately the people of the bunya but republic are presented with incessant China hate hours and minutes of 'news' so your brother can be considered to be a product of that propaganda.

How many wonderful people lie dead as a result of the UKUSAI embargoes glibly supported by the ozzies over the past decades. Please don't forget to include the murder of the 100+ Syrian Army Soldiers minutes before they were to liberate Deir ez-Zor from ISIS butchers. The ozzies don't talk about that or the hundreds of Lebanese christian militia killers who were given occupancy in oz after slaughtering Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila masssacres.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 23 2020 9:30 utc | 133

Jackrabbit #11 and

The election is just an excuse. The USA/Deep State's move against upstarts China-Russia-Iran is not new and not driven by election calculus. IMO it began in 2014 when Russia stood up the USA in Syria and Ukraine and Washington realized that the Russia-China SCO Alliance was a real threat to the Empire.

The great game has been on for centuries and was birthed in the UK. Do read "The Great Game: The Struggle for Empire in Central Asia" by Peter Hopkirk here.

The UK had possession of India and what became Pakistan, it had invaded and then was slaughtered in Afghanistan (see Retreat from Kabul). The Englanders were desperate to block the Tsarist Russians from moving south to steal the India they had stolen from the Indians. and so it goes.

Today's version is to continue yesterdays adventure of establishing global servitude. Remember the Venetians colonised London and Amsterdam in the 1600's, they had refined global trade networks, infrastructure and shipment insurances. AND they almost were decimated after neighboring states became sick and tired of the Venetian trouble making (read colour revolution) emanating from their city in the swamps of Venice.
expanded adventure using Dutch and Englander flags by establishing the two East India Companies.

The blockade of trade routes except through their channels/accounts/checkpoints was the objective then and now.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 23 2020 10:03 utc | 134

UT above

Should read: 'They then expanded their adventure etc.,

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 23 2020 10:06 utc | 135

Pass by anytime

Posted by: Noel Grannell | Jul 23 2020 10:46 utc | 136

JC @126

How did Mao kill those "millions"? Did he use napalm? Americans know for a fact that napalm works pretty good when you have large numbers of people to genocide, and America has experience with it too.

I've heard Mao used a famine to kill those "millions". I am just curious, though, did Mao use weather control to launch that famine? The US has done weather control like that, as record of "Operation Popeye" in Vietnam demonstrates. That "Operation Popeye" was a relatively high tech operation, but maybe Mao personally stole the technology for it from the US. What do you think?

China also had famines in 1907, 1920, 1928, 1936, and 1942. I wonder if the commies were responsible for those ones as well? And why haven't they had any famines for sixty years now? If the commies like using famines so much to genocide their own populations then why not just use a couple more of them to deal with the Tibetan and Uighur problems?

You see, I am suspicious that maybe the "millions" that Mao killed with famine were kinda like the "millions" that Maduro is killing with famine right now in Venezuela. The range of possible deaths listed in Wikipedia, 15 to 55 million, is extremely odd. Did the Chinese only recently learn how to count? Is the concept of a census new to the Chinese? Has nobody in China ever bothered to conduct a national survey to find out how many people lost family members to Mao's famine? Has nobody bothered to count graves, or investigate for mass graves? But then, I suppose the commies were using fancy, high tech German mobile crematoriums or something like the rebels in Ukraine did a couple years ago.

No, it is obvious that the story about Mao killing "millions" is nonsense that different people promote for different reasons.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 23 2020 11:22 utc | 137

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 23 2020 11:22 utc | 137

Mao had little access to synthetic fertilizers back then as he was forced to clean up the vast amount of damage left behind by the fascist Japs , KMT robber barons and US imperialists (in Korea). The arrogant US cucks can choose to stop using those in agri now if they think they can do better in his shoes.

Which will definitely stop their own obesity pandemic as a bonus, and along with all the inflation the Fed has always wished for.

Posted by: J W | Jul 23 2020 12:03 utc | 138

Posted by: migueljose | Jul 23 2020 5:03 utc | 107
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 5:37 utc | 111

I think most USAians have drunk the koolaid by the pitcherfull. They continue to confuse slight differences in diversionary tactics between the Democratic and Republican parties for the Duopoly's very similar strategic objectives, both domestically and in foreign policy. This may even apply to Karlof1@22 since he seems to be beating the Democrat drum.

Continuing to give the stamp of approval to the Corporate Duopoly in various elections is not a sign of "democracy", but quite the opposite.

Thirty years or so, I went to a shopping mall with a friend to vist his mother, and notcied to jewellry stores on opposite corners, a Mappins and a Peoples. I imagined that this was an example of "competition" until the mother, working at Peoples let us know that both jewelry outlets were owned by the same corporation. The competition, if there wasone, was internal, but the ultimate goal, the same, to make more profits for the shareholders.

So who do you think the "shareholders" of the Duopoly are? Well, they aren't you and me. So much for democracy.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jul 23 2020 12:10 utc | 139

"That all U.S. media which I have read on the issue have failed to mention the diplomatic spat about testing should be of concern." b

It should be of concern that we do not have an independent media. No voice that can break through the incessant noise that passes for "news" dares to assert that China has never "stolen" American jobs. Apple has stolen American jobs. Tesla.GE. Intel. Every American corporation one can think of large and small has taken advantage of the skilled low wage Chinese worker. But because the deranged clown in the WH declares China enemy#1, the media parrots join in. There is no evidence that US industrial tycoons have been coerced into sending jobs to China. Most members of the American elite have been largely made in China. A simple and obvious truth ignored by all.

Posted by: jadan | Jul 23 2020 12:37 utc | 140

jadan — from WashingtonsBlog ? Good to see you....and good point.

Posted by: oglalla | Jul 23 2020 12:50 utc | 141

@ Posted by: JC | Jul 23 2020 7:42 utc | 127

Economically speaking, the game is already over for Taiwan: even before the economic crisis, Taiwas was growing at less than half the Mainland's rate in GDP terms. Taiwan loses, on average, 100,000 young graduates to the Mainland because of better career options. Taiwan's population - already tiny compared to the Mainland's - is shrinking at an alarming rate: if it was a country, it would have, by a long margin, the lowest fertility rate in the world (1.1 children per woman). By comparison, Japan - famous for its low fertility rate - has a 1.72 children per woman (2018). That means Taiwan has already lost the demographic war.

More importantly, Taiwan's economy is already completely dependent on the Mainland's. The only GDP growth it still has it owes to the Mainland. The USA's importance to its economy only comes from semiconductor imports and weapons sales.

But Taiwan is also losing at the military front. This blog published a post last year (or 2018) talking about the Taiwanese change of its military doctrine amid the Mainland's rapid expansion and modernization of its Navy and Air Force. Some decades ago, Taiwan's military doctrine envisioned not only a victory against the Mainland, but also the conquest of the province the borders it at the other side of the strait. That would mean Taiwan not only envisioned a military victory against the Mainland - but also its future conquest.

After the Mainland's Navy and Air Force modernization, they published another doctrine. This doctrine not only abandoned all perspective of conquering a part of the Mainland, but also abandoned all perspective of even controlling the strait. It is now a purely defensive doctrine, which envisions the Mainland controlling the strait, invading the island and conquering its "lowlands". It now focuses on using the island's mountainous region, equipped with anti-aircraft batteries, to keep a Festung in order to set up a resistance and prepare the theater for a prolonged guerilla warfare (militia warfare: sabotage, terrorism etc.) - in the hope of reconquering the island.

Posted by: vk | Jul 23 2020 12:59 utc | 142

Blue Dotterel@139
"I think most USAians have drunk the koolaid by the pitcherfull."
Totally agree. Myself included. Many posters here are relatively smart-- we read and write well by 21st century imperial standards. We also tend to be privileged. (full disclosure, I own lots of stuff) We tend to be overweight, have health problems more related to over eating along with consuming poisons and under-using our bodies.
We lefties suffer from an arrogance problem along with our deplorable co-citizens. Step 1... own it. Look at some groups who are less tainted by our 200+ year imperial run. Black Agenda Report is impressive. The MAS people in Bolivia, Bolivarian Venezuelans too. Read Gabor Mate. One thing the above have in common: they get out and do something in their communities. They sacrifice their time for others.
I read Moa every day. I also help my red neck neighbors and then I talk to them, listen, draw them out and push on them.I tell them what I told Karlof1-- step back from picking a Democrat or Republican in November.

Posted by: migueljose | Jul 23 2020 13:07 utc | 143

Before I went for a leave of absence to Germany because of family-matters,I lived & worked almost 10 years in Beijing (headquarter location)and traveled throughout China & Asia (and I'll return after my task is over).I must say this ONE is one of those few articles which get an rather acurate picutre of its subjects.

Normally, especially in the USA it's rather "Märchenstunde"( something like tall tales)than anything else. Also tons of half-tuth, "hearsay", unknown sources, doctored statistics aka Forbes & Bloomberg (UNI of Munich found out after they checked F&BB articles of the last 20years, that almost 75% turned out as WRONG in its predictions or were fabricated from the start!). So a dire situation for
some truth and realistic reporting instead it's all the American propaganda-blah-blah you can imagine.
Right now ridiculously HK and EVIL-China-hurting/killing-Moslems (educate yourself or says WAR-CRIMINAL + MASS-MURDER Pompeo,lol!

Nonetheless you find such reflections, racist prejudices (sorry there's no other word to go for), other utter nonsense and so on... in many, many comments here, who mostly have no idea what they blaring about.

Why the US Has No Chance of Winning Either a 'Cold' or a 'Hot' War Against China
By Ekaterina Blinova

July 16, 2020 "Information Clearing House" - While ramping up pressure against Beijing on multiplefronts, Washington appears to not be taking into account China's sustainability and resilience, which stem from its sophisticated culture, says sociologist Dr. Heinz Dieterich, explaining why the

US' current China strategy is erratic and doomed to failure.

On Monday, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced that "most" of China's maritime claims in the South China Sea are null and void. The People's Republic claims up to 80% of the 3.5-million square kilometre sea, in accordance with the so-called "nine dash line".
"The world will not allow Beijing to treat the South China Sea as its maritime empire", Pompeo stated.

In response, the Chinese embassy in the US warned the Trump administration against "stirring up tension and inciting confrontation in the region."

Washington Stepping Up Pressure Against Beijing

The latest spat came on the heels of tit-for-tat sanctions against senior politicians implemented by Washington and then Beijing over Xinjiang as well as the US show of force in the South China Sea earlier this month. The Trump administration is continuing to tighten the screws on China's trade,
high-tech sector, and artificial island building. According to public opinion polls, anti-China sentiment is now on the rise in the US, with about 66% of Americans thinking unfavourably about the People's Republic, prompting speculations about a forthcoming "cold war" with Beijing.

However, at the same time, the US Chamber of Commerce has recently demanded that top Chinese officials redouble efforts to implement phase one of the trade agreement which was concluded between Washington and Beijing in January 2020.

"Any scientifically sound metric of international standing – economic, scientific, demographic, political, military or Covid-19 – shows, that the US is in no condition to either win a 'cold' or 'hot war' against China", says Dr. Heinz Dieterich, director of the Centre for Transition Sciences (CTS) at the
Autonomous Metropolitan University in Mexico City, and coordinator at the World Advanced Research Project (WARP).

Washington´s China strategy is erratic and being coupled with the internal partisan and social divide which has manifested as a systemic crisis in the US, he remarks.You can't buy your way onto these pages.The crisis is systemic, because it has affected political, economic, cultural and social dimensions. It dramatically evidenced the breakdown of the intra-elite consensus between Democrats and Republicans on how to preserve the global US domination-system. It has also aggravated longstanding social inequality, skyrocketing national debt and swirling protests, the professor notes.

Besides endangering the country's internal stability, it threatens to affect the global balance of power and world peace, Dieterich warns.

The Demise of the Transatlantic Partnership
While the US is now praising the UK's decision to ban Chinese telecom equipment from its 5G networks, the Trump administration cannot boast good relations with the European Union, as it has largely alienated Germany, "the undisputed leader" of the bloc.

On 29 June, German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas warned that the current tensions between the US and Germany are unlikely to be solved in the foreseeable future, no matter who wins the November vote: "Everyone who thinks everything in the trans-Atlantic partnership will be as it once was with a Democratic president underestimates the structural changes," Maas told the German press agency DPA.

The Trump administration has repeatedly lambasted Berlin over NATO spending, migration and economic policies, as well as its participation in the Russia-led Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline project, which was recently subjected to US sanctions.

At the same time, the US open policy of intimidation against China, Russia, North Korea and Iran has proven ineffective and failed, according to the academic. Iran's delivery of about 1.5 million barrels of Iranian gasoline and related components to Venezuela, a country suffering from a US embargo, in May and June 2020, clearly indicated that Washington's policy of "maximum pressure"
against nuclear or powerful states does not work.

Despite sabre-rattling and muscle flexing in the South China Sea, the US is unlikely to engage in a direct confrontation with the People's Republic as it is doomed to failure, according to Dieterich, who recollects that the US has de facto "lost" four wars in Asia: China's civil war (1946-49), the Korean
War (1950-53), the Vietnam War (1955-75), and most recently in Afghanistan.

"My Center for Transition Sciences (CTS) has developed a multi-variable 'Geopolitical Index of Relative Power of Nation-States' (GIRP), which we presented in Moscow in 2014 that clearly shows that the US and its allies would have won a nuclear war against China in the 1950s. But, even against the lightly armed peasant army of Mao Zedong, they could not win the Korean War," the professor notes.

The US as a superpower is today only "a shadow of what it was after 1945", according to the academic, who claims that it has turned from a “tiger with nuclear teeth” (as Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchov defined it) into a “paper tiger” (as Mao Zedong called it).

US Underestimates China's Sustainability
Touching upon the massive pressure the US has exerted on China's economic, social and political spheres, as well as raising stakes in the South China Sea, Dieterich presumes that Washington underestimates China's resilience based on its sophisticated culture and "dialectical spirit of Confucius, Lao-Tse, and Gautama Buddha" which have many times helped the nation overcome dramatic historical challenges and paved the way to its socio-economic and political transformation.

He notes that if one takes a look at the past two centuries, one would see that the Chinese managed to fend of the Japanese intervention, survived the Civil War, and proved sufficient in the Korean and Vietnam wars. IT successfully underwent the Cultural Revolution under Mao Zedong and then further socio-cultural transformation under Deng Xiaoping. Currently, he says, Chinese
society is making a dramatic technological leap striving to accomplish its Made in China 2025 strategic plan under Xi Jinping.

"These successes have produced an overwhelming support of the people for the government, a strong national unity behind a clear strategic leadership, based on the scientific principles of Marxism, and an international global power and standing in all important metrics," Dieterich says.

The Chinese are not sitting on their thumbs while the US is trying to build an anti-China coalition; the People's Republic is actively forging multilateral alliances and strengthening ties with Russia and the Germany-led European Union.

Thus, Beijing is pushing ahead with the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), a proposed free trade agreement in the Indo-Pacific region, which brings together the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and its FTA partners, namely, China, Australia, Japan, New Zealand, and South Korea. Furthermore, the People's Republic is signalling a "positive and open
attitude" towards joining the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), an "updated" version of the Obama-era Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) shredded by Donald Trump when he assumed the office.

To preserve the global balance of power, Washington should adhere to a symmetrical multi-polar world and give up plans of "subjugating China, Russia and Europe, in order to recuperate its former world supremacy", according to the professor. "Democracy and Justice in the world system are only possible between entities, which roughly have the same amount of power," he remarks.

"The only stable and viable solution for the species to survive is a new eco-civilisation, based on a global non-market economic system, in which the private tyranny of the market – a global plutocratic elite of profit mongers – and anti-democratic oligarchic political systems do no longer rule the destiny of the people," Dieterich concludes.

Posted by: Ashino |

Posted by: Ashino | Jul 23 2020 13:43 utc | 144

How does the U.S. destroy paper secrets? or is everything on USB drives? If China randomly chooses and then gives a U.S. consulate 12 hrs to vacate, I bet we will get a fire drill there as well but the U.S. MSM will claim that the Chinese govt started it.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jul 23 2020 13:54 utc | 145

What's at stake if the US consulate in Wuhan is closed?

Posted by: Virgile | Jul 23 2020 14:09 utc | 146

Ashino @Jul23 13:43 #144

I think there are many that believe strongly that China will prevail and US/Empire will fail. That is driven by a great deal of animosity toward US/Empire who rightly deserves that karma.

But IMO US/Empire failing is not at all certain. Firstly, because success for US/Empire is generally defined in people's minds as achieve total dominance of China. What's more likely is that the conflict plays out over a long span of time (10-50 years) and one side or the other 'wins' by forcing the other to end their contention and seek cooperation over conflict.

USA doesn't have to completely dominate China militarily. They just have to take the wind out of it's sails and create speed-bumps and turbulence that slow it down.

So I think this is simplistic:

US' current China strategy is erratic and doomed to failure.

This is a more accurate statement:
US' current China strategy is devious yet success is uncertain.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

Outlook: we will all grow fat on popcorn.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 23 2020 14:14 utc | 147

The US has already failed in its effort to "contain" China. The bio attack backfiring was the point of no return. The only question now is how much damage the empire will do before it realizes that the game is over.

There is nothing clever or "devious" about America's behavior over the last six months. The spastic flailing is not part of some brilliant master plan. It is the panicked desperation of the drowning victim struggling for just one more economic air bubble. In fact, the trillion dollar bailout of the stock markets was a "Hail Mary" play that failed on the scale of America's bio attack on China. Other than resorting to nukes there is nothing left for the empire to fall back on.

The empire apologists have to accept that sometimes (always?) when the empire's behavior makes no sense it is not because their plans are so amazing and convoluted but because they have no idea what they are doing.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 23 2020 14:38 utc | 148

Jackrabbit 147

The various stages of US empire have been repetitively short historically speaking. Becoming a hegemonic empire at the end of WWII, then the age of decadence running from the collapse of USSR until Russia's move onto Syria, and from that point entering decline and collapse.
Like the USSR, the US is trapped within an ideology.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 14:43 utc | 149

@JC Those 'millions killed' reminds me of lying gusano Cubans who cry wolf tears over their fascist accomplices rightfully being put 6ft into the ground by Castro and the other Cuban revolutionaries. Not saying you're one of them, just reminds me of them. Also those famines in China were not 'intended' by Mao. Mismanagement is not 'intention'. Besides, that framing of 'millions' killed is the framing of imperialists. You know, the word of western and japanese imperialists. Black Book level slander. The hundreds of thousands of landlords, who were just as horrendous as the Cuban reactionaries, do not deserve to be mourned so grievously as if they fought against injustice.... considering... they WERE the injustice.

Posted by: dimitrov | Jul 23 2020 15:11 utc | 150

We need to keep them at a distance so that they won't be able to hack us.

Posted by: jared | Jul 23 2020 15:13 utc | 151

Couple points:

1) I for one cant wrap my head around the reasons why nations still follow diplomatic protocols from the 18th and 19th centuries. Its obvious technology and spy tactics have changed, yet nations allow other nations to ship in large amounts of people and material, give them immunity, and let them roam freely. How dumb can you be ?

2) Why allow consulates to be built, that are larger then most embassies ? Are you stupid China ?

3) Dont forget about the Chinese ambassador to Israhell that was killed, while under quarantine. China never retaliated and hushed that incident up very quickly.

4) Finally, the US is just afraid of China doing, to its diplomats, what the US is doing to its citizens. The " testing " consists of 2 parts.

a) The insertion of a foreign material. Possible pathogen, nano technology, or some type of microchip implant.

b) The collection of DNA material.

The Covid-19 " scare " is the world's largest DNA collection operation, among many other things.

Posted by: Fog of War | Jul 23 2020 15:17 utc | 152

Fog @ 152

1,2) I'm of the mind that any of these allowances work for the host country as well.

3) No retaliation as of yet you mean.

Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Jul 23 2020 15:40 utc | 153

Brendon @33

Russia burned its confidential papers.
China burned its confidential papers.

US had CIA shred their confidential papers before the Iranian Embassy was overtaken. Iranian students pasted all the shredded documents back together and learned of the contents.
How do you reassemble shredded documents? - › news › magazine-16036967
Dec 6, 2011 - After Iranian students seized the US embassy in Tehran in 1979, they spent years painstakingly reassembling the intelligence reports and operational accounts shredded by the CIA officers who were the last workers captured.

Query: Don't they teach them anything worthwhile at spy school?

Posted by: Larry Miller | Jul 23 2020 15:51 utc | 154

@ Posted by: Fog of War | Jul 23 2020 15:17 utc | 152

Burning documents when exiting an embassy is protocol. There's nothing weird with that, and it in no way proves guilt.

Embassies can either burn their documents in special ovens or in the open. They still use paper because papers can't be hacked. The most confidential kind of document used by the USG - the memorandum - is entirely on paper (written by hand or on a typewriter by the POTUS) and is usually destroyed after the information is transmitted. Covert operations and black operations are difficult for historians to track precisely because of this: it is only by dumb chance, a whistleblower or by a sudden change in a government's policy (or by painful critical analysis by a talented and exceptionally erudite historian) that we know such operations do exist.

When Ribbentrop informed Molotov Germany was declaring war against the USSR, Molotov was given the due time to burn his documents in an oven in his office, and then to leave the embassy with his employees.

Posted by: vk | Jul 23 2020 15:59 utc | 155

"She further identified the Chinese consulate in Houston, which the US has ordered closed and to "cease all operations and events," as being "the epicenter" of the alleged research theft."

Houston we have a problem

Posted by: arby | Jul 23 2020 16:55 utc | 156

" 1,2) I'm of the mind that any of these allowances work for the host country as well. "

No it doesn't because most nations dont have the resources of ZioAmerica or China. For instance. Do you think a Bulgaria, has the means to station thousands of " diplomats " in its embassies all over the world ? Look at the size of the " green zone " in Iraq. Are those all paper pushing diplomats ? The archaic diplomatic system needs to be done away with, especially now with computers and instant world wide communications. I dont even think there's a need for embassies anymore either, not in their current sizes. Any embassy should have 20 or so people at the most, any numbers larger then that, and you have nothing but spying and NGO subversion operations.

Posted by: Fog of War | Jul 23 2020 17:39 utc | 157

Fog @ 157

You're talking about a diplomatic corps being sent from one country to another (Bulgaria in your example). I'm suggesting that countries that allow an embassy on their soil do so because of the benefits to themselves.

Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Jul 23 2020 18:17 utc | 158

Everyone focused on which US Consulate China will close.

The way things are going, I think it's possible, if not likely, that there will not be any US Consulates in China and Chinese Consulates in USA by the US Presidential election.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 23 2020 18:56 utc | 159

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 23 2020 18:56 utc | 159

Jackrabbit, you're almost 99.99% correct. Pompeo endless accusations China, China and China is hard for anyone to bear especially for a Chinese. I understands the political implications - to win the presidency for Trump even going to war with China.

My bet and hope China shut down US's HK and Macao consulate. Its seem Chinese medias expecting US consulate in Wuhan, but SCMP readers betting on HK and Macao consulate.

Posted by: JC | Jul 23 2020 19:49 utc | 160

" You're talking about a diplomatic corps being sent from one country to another (Bulgaria in your example). I'm suggesting that countries that allow an embassy on their soil do so because of the benefits to themselves. "

Fair enough, what advantages does Germany, for example, get from having a greatly over-sized " diplomatic " US presence in its country ? Italy ? Russia ? China even ?

Additionally, I was mainly talking about size and numbers. There is absolutely no overt logical reason why US embassies need to be so massively manned in the countries that they're in.

Posted by: Fog of War | Jul 23 2020 20:10 utc | 161

dimitrov #150

You know, the word of western and japanese imperialists. Black Book level slander. The hundreds of thousands of landlords, who were just as horrendous as the Cuban reactionaries, do not deserve to be mourned so grievously as if they fought against injustice.... considering... they WERE the injustice.

Thank you - nicely put phrase. Great post.

William Gruff #148

The empire apologists have to accept that sometimes (always?) when the empire's behavior makes no sense it is not because their plans are so amazing and convoluted but because they have no idea what they are doing.

Thank you I guess the 'class of 86' that now infests the administration AND the Trump family clowns in the White House entirely missed the course on empirical reasoning. Perhaps they contracted their course assignments to Kissinger and Albright associates inc ;)

The Rolling Stones immortalised the myopia of the USA:

I look inside myself and see my heart is black
I see my red door, I must have it painted black
Maybe then I'll fade away and not have to face the facts
It's not easy facing up when your whole world is black

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 23 2020 21:44 utc | 162

Fog of War #157

Any embassy should have 20 or so people at the most, any numbers larger then that, and you have nothing but spying and NGO subversion operations.

Right on and thank you for saying that. The new world is looking much different as a result one dumb President and the impact of the Fort Detrick virus.

Close the embassies !!! trade missions only.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 23 2020 22:15 utc | 163

@ 150 dimitrov.. good post... i 2nd uncle tungstens comment.. i hope you post more frequently..

Posted by: james | Jul 23 2020 22:15 utc | 164

Re JC's post and the replies.

Civil war - who takes what side? Everyone has good vision in hindsight. The Chinese civil war was a peoples revolution, but from what I read of it, it was the rural peasants that ended up flocking to Mao while the KMT held the cities. Much urban fighting and under those conditions many are killed so it civilians in the cities would have suffered worst directly from the fighting. Millions where killed in the civil war. Earlier fighting was mostly between armies in the field but post WWII civil war in China was a lot of urban fighting.
JC has said straight up his father was with the KMT. He lost his family in the civil war as well as during the Japanese occupation before that. Now he firmly backs China against the US and his worst fear is another civil war. US would like nothing better that to kick of a war between Taiwan and Mainland China which would be a continuance of the civil war of 70 years ago.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 23 2020 22:36 utc | 165

Peter AU1 #165
re JC position

Now he firmly backs China against the US and his worst fear is another civil war. US would like nothing better that to kick of a war between Taiwan and Mainland China which would be a continuance of the civil war of 70 years ago.

I fully appreciate JC position and his stance in this debate. My retort was in the broader context of the situation described - NOT JC position. I was merely critiquing the perspectives arising from JC clear statement of his position and the ambiguous comment of his brother.

As I see it the wisdom of the Chinese diplomatic thinking derives from a perspective of seeing events and responses in terms of decades and century to achieve ends. China has an immense advantage due to that (Confucian?) mindset.

Note that the 'hate russia, hate china' mantra from the UKUSAI is also based on centuries of hate and need for a foreign distraction to maintain home compliance and reach of empire. Their problem is that they have encountered the Confucian ? mind set. Putin and China and Iran see long term for national advantage; UKUSAI use 'hate' long term for domestic manipulation.

I see China and Russia and Iran as the ones that will succeed in protecting their people and their future.

Thank you to JC as this is a vital discussion.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 23 2020 23:33 utc | 166

ooops f#ked up the blockquote.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 23 2020 23:33 utc | 167

Posted by: Larry Miller | Jul 23 2020 15:51 utc | 154

I was fascinated to learn that Iranians ysed skilled Persian rug weavers to piece together shredded documents from the US embassy.

Posted by: Arch | Jul 24 2020 0:08 utc | 168

From Reuters
"A flight bound for Shanghai carrying U.S. diplomats has left the United States as Washington presses ahead with its plan to restaff its mission in China a day after an American order to close the Chinese consulate in Houston sharply escalated tensions."

Either the US spies have been tested for coronavirus and carry certification of the tests, or US is making a propaganda move to ratchet things up. Going by the crap coming out Pompeo's facial sphincter, the yanks are going to ratchet things up a bit.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 24 2020 0:44 utc | 169

Peter AU1, vato, uncle tungsten, William Gruff, vk and dimitrov

Gentleman thanks for your comments. RE:"How many people did Mao Zedong kill? I replied millions - short and simple too simple for a reason." Pardon me certainly don't have a clue how many Chinese died during Mao eras. But certainly collectively the period prior China's revolution, civil wars, Japanese and foreign occupations and Russia's Czars annexation and not forgetting repeated famines, flooding. Collectively it may exceed many millions. That was in my mind when I spoke to my brother. It was wrong to blame all the death on Mao Zedong, Chiang Kai-shek singularly or together.

On our weekly phone conversation keeping update, I warned my brother her daughter in HK prepare emergency departure. I said Trumps is mad and include the 5eyes. Peter duns believe me earlier so was my brother. I sense another civil war in the making with Pompeo's Trump shit stirrer. Now, I am absolutely convince after his speech at Nixon Library in Yorba Linda. Encouraging the Chinese citizen to revolts and the 72-hr Houston consulate shutdown. There must never be another China civil war. PERIOD!

Posted by: JC | Jul 24 2020 2:11 utc | 170

Posted by: norecovery | Jul 23 2020 4:01 utc | 105 "Has anyone else noticed that orders of Chinese merchandise shipped to the US have been getting waylaid for weeks by a USPS "partner" carrier after arriving in the buyer's city"

I had to replace the house’s refrigerator in late June. I ordered a new one, a Samsung lower-end model with good reviews. It is a much higher quality product than comparable fridges made here in Cootistan and is also 30% less expensive. The appliance guy said he could make delivery in about two weeks. Two weeks later — after it had not arrived, he asked his warehouse to search for its whereabouts. They located it in the supply chain and it had just cleared customs (two weeks after order). It will take two more weeks for delivery — if it happens at all.

So it’s not just USPS “partner carriers” that are mucking up deliveries of Asian-made goods? I tried to find out where the Samsung refrigerator is being made without success. Korea? China?

Posted by: suzan | Jul 24 2020 2:32 utc | 171

Below is a posting from Xinhuanet that answers the question about what gets closed in China

BEIJING, July 24 (Xinhua) -- Chinese Foreign Ministry on Friday informed the U.S. Embassy in China of its decision to withdraw its consent for the establishment and operation of the U.S. Consulate General in Chengdu.

The ministry also made specific requirements on the ceasing of all operations and events by the Consulate General, said a statement issued by the ministry.

On July 21, the United States launched a unilateral provocation by abruptly demanding that China close its Consulate General in Houston, the statement said.

"The U.S. move seriously breached international law, the basic norms of international relations, and the terms of the China-U.S. Consular Convention. It gravely harmed China-U.S. relations," said the statement.

"The measure taken by China is a legitimate and necessary response to the unjustified act by the United States. It conforms with international law, the basic norms of international relations, and customary diplomatic practices," said the statement.

"The current situation in China-U.S. relations is not what China desires to see, and the United States is responsible for all this. We once again urge the United States to immediately retract its wrong decision and create necessary conditions for bringing the bilateral relationship back on track," the statement added.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 24 2020 5:01 utc | 172


This from Reuters

“The Chengdu consulate is more important than the Wuhan consulate because that is where the U.S. gathers information about Tibet and China’s development of strategic weapons in neighbouring regions,” said Wu Xinbo, a professor and American studies expert at Fudan University in Shanghai.

He said the Chengdu consulate was less important for trade and economic activity than U.S. consulates in Shanghai, Guangzhou and Hong Kong.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 24 2020 6:37 utc | 173

" that is where the U.S. gathers information about Tibet and China’s development of strategic weapons in neighbouring regions,” said Wu Xinbo, a professor and American studies expert at Fudan University in "

If China was aware of this why was allowed to stay open in the first place ?

Posted by: Fog of War | Jul 24 2020 13:24 utc | 174

Well, here from the very beginning of the pandemic, the main players the that United States and China are competing, what will be the consequences, we will see later. Accusations, accusations, accusations ...

Posted by: Smith Mitchell | Jul 24 2020 14:05 utc | 175

I m delighted how the unfoldings of the whole 2nd rate postshakespearean story and the Chino-uncle Samsmilian relations get stinky by the day.
The higher the Empire's nose goes up, the 'stupider' and the 'counterproductiver' their decisions turn to be - and the up spiral keeps rising.
The Chino-russian-iranian axis going stronger week after week.
As one analyst pointed out "No empire in History till this date was ever able to ammend itself"

Posted by: augusto | Jul 24 2020 14:23 utc | 176

JW, This is not a comment on who is being fair to whom, but
the plain visible point is exactly that we, non americans, are quite fed up to the top about the ''virtues'' of playing by the US rules since Aug 6, 1945.
If at all this were the point or the option... it might occur that we would simply prefer to play by the chinese rules.
And the empire has been doing all possible so that this sole option comes true...

Posted by: augusto | Jul 24 2020 14:35 utc | 177

Smith Mitchell @175: "Accusations, accusations, accusations ..."

China was (and still is) winning the "trade war" that America launched against them. Why would they bother using a biological weapon? All the Chinese had to do was continue doing as they were and they win. Escalation of the conflict was in no way in China's interest.

On the other hand, the US is losing the "trade war" fight that it started. Having put itself in zugzwang, the US needed a disruptive move that would leave it in a stronger position than China. Atom bombs are out, so what else could America do? Forcing China into isolation by infecting them with a nasty bug would have been the perfect reversal of America's position in the trade war.

Basically, there is no motive for China to escalate the conflict but America is in desperate need of that escalation. While the United States is flinging accusations about China left and right and from all levels of government and mass media, the only accusation from China has been a vague suggestion from a single mid-level bureaucrat in a single Twitter post. That a single tweet triggered such massive snowflake meltdowns in America even while the US was engaged in a huge public-private partnership disinformation campaign aimed at China demonstrates the power of truth contained in that one tweet.

It takes the whole US government working in concert with all of the capitalism mass media to tell a convincing lie. A single tweet with the truth behind it can puncture that lie.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 24 2020 16:11 utc | 178

Hilarious that people (above) are comparing Obama and Trump. The Republican and Democrat parties, like the 'Labour' and tory parties in the UK are just two cheeks of the same arse. Comparing any particular President or Prime Minister is like examining the difference between two peas - i.e. pointless.

Until the USA grows its own radical leftist party which has overcome the inbuilt media propaganda against it we will not be getting anywhere. Ditto for the UK.

Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Jul 24 2020 19:09 utc | 179

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