Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 25, 2020

U.S. Asks China To Make More Nuclear Weapons

"We’ve called on China to conform its nuclear capabilities to the strategic realities of our time."
Michael R. Pompeo, Secretary of State, July 23 2020

 


Source: FAS.org - bigger

Posted by b on July 25, 2020 at 12:28 UTC | Permalink

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Posted by: A.L. | Jul 26 2020 7:22 utc | 100

These cute innocent Psyops guys obviously care so much about Muslims that their employers had slaughtered them by the millions. But at the same time we are also supposed to feel pity for psychopathic US troops who died or got PTSD by signing up to kill said Muslims. Can't you people see it's the brave Americans like Chris Kyle who are the real victims here?

Posted by: J W | Jul 26 2020 8:00 utc | 101

Remember that Ukraine had the fifth-largest nuclear arsenal in the world after the breakup of the USSR. The West agreed to help them disarm in exchange for guarantees to help defend their territorial sovereignty.

So since the West has reneged on their end of the deal, isn't it only fair to give the nukes back?

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jul 26 2020 8:59 utc | 102

Jackrabbit @ 92-- "IMO it's a mistake to see him as a fool or an idiot. You may dislike his willingness to lie, cheat, steal, but you can't easily dismiss the fact that the strategy USA has pursued since 2014 has been well planned and orchestrated."

I do not say that Pomposity is a fool. I say he is a bastard. Big difference.

And I say he is but a symptom, a pimple on the rear end of the bastard US elite that I despise.

The fool on the HILL, that shining city on the HILL, is that US elite establishment, the hopelessly-lost Nowhere Man, now barking barking louder and ruder as the Silk Road Caravan passes them by.

The 'bastard' word I use is the same as used by C S Lewis in an address to an Oxbridge graduating class: that there will be some among them who will sell their souls for cheap prosperity, a fistful of dollars.

The fact that a strategy is well-planned, well-orchestrated does not imbue it with worth, or rightness, or the capacity to endure. To even think to bring others down so you remain 'ahead' is despicable, evil, selfish, and ultimately, self-defeating. The US 'leads" by hobbling others. This crime against humanity will end.

And part of the army to end this US evil has to be the American people, whom I hope will do more than just sit back, chew popcorn, yakity yak, grow a paunch.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Jul 26 2020 9:55 utc | 103

Posted by: chu teh | Jul 26 2020 6:06 utc | 98

Interesting posit. I am learning. Thank you.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Jul 26 2020 10:04 utc | 104

To quote a Chinese woman I know: "We adhere to Confucianism no matter the political system".

I do wonder though how this will end

Angela Merkel, the long-term German chancellor and, by extension, the most influential voice in the European Union, remains China’s staunchest ally in the West, even as Beijing found itself increasingly alienated in recent months due to a slew of contentious issues involving Huawei, Hong Kong, Xinjiang and the coronavirus pandemic.

But as Merkel prepares to step down after next summer, the clock is ticking for Beijing – particularly in terms of securing a long-negotiated bilateral investment treaty with the EU that she has sponsored.

The US general election in November could also tip the balance on EU-China ties. A loss by incumbent US President Donald Trump to Democratic Party challenger Joe Biden would immediately draw the bloc much closer to Washington, according to European diplomats.

“With a new German leader representing Europe and working with, let’s say, a new president representing the US, that would be a nightmare for China,” an EU ambassador told the South China Morning Post on condition of anonymity."

With Chinese economy growing post Corona, a huge deficit in Europe plus in the US and economic problems due to Corona, the Yuan edging towards replacing the Dollar, the US trying to block Nord Stream II, where are Germany's politicians likely to go? Will US capital that profited from Corona be able to buy European companies, or will Chinese capital?
China already has been heavily invested in Europe's cash-strapped South. To watch the race for market access will be interesting should the Chinese economy boom and "Western" economy be in recession.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 26 2020 10:23 utc | 105

JC @ 96 -- ".... puzzl(ing)... extreme frustration..."

I hear your frustration, but it seems to me that you expect too much morality, ethical conduct, humanity even, from politicians. Perhaps it is because your Chinese-ness makes you see the world that way?

Jacinda Ardern is not "my" PM. I treat her as any other politician. Scott Morrison too. Their behaviour is confusing, unethical, illogical because they do not have your sense of right and wrong, so clearly seen in your frustrated postings.

[ Off-topic, but you wrote that your elder brother asked about the millions "killed" by Mao. Go read Godfrey Roberts' "Mao Revisited", and you will have enough to educate your brother. The better question for your brother to ask is how many millions LIVED / LIVE because of Mao? ]

Posted by: kiwiklown | Jul 26 2020 10:24 utc | 106

A. L. #100

Yes, but they remind me to reiterate the many crimes against humanity once again.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 26 2020 10:39 utc | 107

Israel has more nukes than China, and unlike China is not a signatory to any nuclear arms treaties.

Posted by: Goldbug | Jul 26 2020 12:57 utc | 108

The one true Country that gave Israel the bomb is France

Posted by: Noel Grannell | Jul 26 2020 13:14 utc | 109

People need not be anxious about China being "isolated". Political mockingbirds can make as much noise as they want and pass as many laws as they like, but economics always trumps politics. All of the empire's efforts, from terrorist "hybrid war", to color revolution attempts, to industrial sabotage, to economic attacks, to bio weapons, have failed to halt the shift of the world's economic center to China. The only thing that might be able to change the larger course of history would be another world war on the scale of WWII. Like the Nazis back then the US would lose that war despite appearing to have the technological and political advantage going in it. This is because economics trumps warfare as well as politics.

(Aside: The British also lost WWII, which is why there is no longer a British Empire worthy of mention)

All China needs to do is continue forging ahead as they have been doing and the rest of the world will fall into orbit around their economic gravity well, just as the world did around the US when America was the undisputed industrial powerhouse after WWII. Though people insist upon trying again and again, they cannot alter the imperatives of capitalist economics with political laws any more than they can pass a law mandating that π = 3. The best minds in Europe tried to plot a course between capitalism and real socialism in the post war years, but where are they now? Since the US no longer has the economic gravity to keep them in the empire's orbit they will drift to a new orbit. It is Europe's choice to keep capitalism that will force this change of orbits upon them.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 26 2020 14:08 utc | 110

Posted by: kiwiklown | Jul 26 2020 10:24 utc | 106

"JC @ 96 -- ".... puzzl(ing)... extreme frustration..."

"I hear your frustration, but it seems to me that you expect too much morality, ethical conduct, humanity even, from politicians. Perhaps it is because your Chinese-ness makes you see the world that way?"

Hey brother you read me clearly. Me has a different mindset. I'm Chinese-ness, WRONG to expect everyone to think like me and my set standard. Between me and Xi Jinping or majority mainlanders. I was trained to stayed away from commie even before coming of age and have never deviate from it. But I'm in tune with "socialism with Chinese characteristics". I wish Chinese reunited KMT and "socialism with Chinese characteristic", coexist finding ways for universal suffrage. But not Americanism - democracy or even EU democracy. While the regime in Washington, D.C. sending troops arresting (and killing) its citizens in the west coast, more or less "Revolution of our Times, Five demands not one less” coming home to roost. In HK and Mainland laughing at us like...... what a joke. China survivability as an independent nation depends on the continuation violence, more violence and Covid-19 pandemic spreading all over the States...

"[Off-topic, but you wrote that your elder brother asked about the millions "killed" by Mao. Go read Godfrey Roberts' "Mao Revisited", and you will have enough to educate your brother. The better question for your brother to ask is how many millions LIVED / LIVE because of Mao?]"

HaHaHa.... met someone who "love" Godfree Roberts. He's no longer contributing Unz Review but his own "News Email". Blood is thicker than water, we decided to skip Trump and religion whenever he calls me - weekly. Just a note we were antique my two older sisters experienced WW2, had witness (heard) of Japanese atrocities while surviving as refugees in.....

Posted by: JC | Jul 26 2020 16:26 utc | 111

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 26 2020 14:08 utc | 110

"All China needs to do is continue forging ahead as they have been doing and the rest of the world will fall into orbit around their economic gravity well, just as the world did around the US when America was the undisputed industrial powerhouse after WWII."

Well a bit dicey here, China is doing OK for now, Xi Jinping concentrate the well-being of its people by poverty alleviation, but at the same it crates a new class of citizens where wealth and selfishness means more than Nationalism, especially after "one child" policy. I fear a clone of Americanism which I loath. Look at the two most stupid idiots in the country - One the present president and the other his replacement. Each time I thought of them, keep shaking my head. Can Americans so stoopid!!

"The best minds in Europe tried to plot a course between capitalism and real socialism in the post war years, but where are they now? Since the US no longer has the economic gravity to keep them in the empire's orbit they will drift to a new orbit. It is Europe's choice to keep capitalism that will force this change of orbits upon them. "

Hey you got Emmanuel Macron in France and on the Island Boris who else you got in Europe? Almost like the Yank here two idiots again, I'll give Merkel the pass for now.

Posted by: JC | Jul 26 2020 17:14 utc | 112

William Gruff @ 110--

Yes, as this op/ed from today's Global Times says:

"Chinese analysts said Sunday the key for China to handle the US offensive is to focus on its own development and insist on continued reform and opening-up to meet the increasing needs of Chinese people for better lives. In the upcoming three months, before the November US presidential election, the China-US relationship is in extreme danger as the Trump administration is likely to launch more aggressions to force China to retaliate, they said."

Stay the course; Trump's shit is just an election ploy. However,

"The US' posturing is serving to distract from domestic pressure over President Trump's failure in handling the pandemic when Trump is seeking reelection this year, Chinese observers said. However, the Trump administration's China stance still reflects bipartisan consensus among US elites, so China should not expect significant change in US policy toward China even if there is a power transition in November, which means China should prepare itself for a long fight."

Don't stray from the Long Game. An international conference was held that I'll try to get a link for. Here's GT's summation:

"According to the Xinhua News Agency on Saturday, international scholars said at a virtual meeting on the international campaign against a new cold war on China on Saturday that 'aggressive statements and actions by the US government toward China poses a threat to world peace and a potential new cold war on China goes against the interests of humanity.'

"The meeting gathered experts from a number of countries including the US, China, Britain, India, Russia and Canada.

"Experts attending the meeting issued a statement calling upon the US to step back from this threat of a cold war and also from other dangerous threats to world peace it is engaged in.

"The reason why international scholars are criticizing the US rather than China is that they can see how restrained China remains and the sincerity of China to settle the tension by dialogue, even though the US is getting unreasonably aggressive, said Chinese experts.

"Washington has made a huge mistake as it has chosen the wrong target - China - to be 'the common enemy or common fear' to reshape its declining leadership among the West. Right now, the common enemy of humanity is COVID-19, and this is why its new cold war declaration received almost no positive responses from other major powers and even raised concern, said Lü Xiang, a research fellow at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences in Beijing, on Sunday."

Today's Global Times lead editorial asked most of the questions everyone else's asking:

"People are asking: How far will the current China-US confrontation keep going? Will a new cold war take shape? Will there be military conflicts and will the possible clashes evolve into large-scale military confrontation between the two?

"Perhaps everyone believes that China does not want a new cold war, let alone a hot war. But the above-mentioned questions have become disturbing suspense because no one knows how wild the ambitions the US ruling team has now, and whether American and international societies are capable of restraining their ambitions."

IMO, the editor's conclusions are quite correct:

"The world must start to act and do whatever it can to stop Washington's hysteria in its relations with China.

"Right now, it is no longer a matter of whether China-US ties are in freefall, but whether the line of defense on world peace is being broken through by Washington. The world must not be hijacked by a group of political madmen. The tragedies in 1910s and 1930s must not be repeated again."

Trump is elevated to the same plane as Hitler and Mussolini, and the Outlaw US Empire is now the equivalent of Nazi Germany and the Fascist drive to rule the world--a well illustrated trend that's been ongoing since 1991 that only those blinded by propaganda aren't capable of seeing. I think it absolutely correct for China to focus its rhetoric on the Outlaw US Empire's utter failure to control COVID, which prompts some probing questions made from the first article:

"Shen Yi, a professor at the School of International Relations and Public Affairs of Fudan University, told the Global Times on Sunday that there is wide consensus among the international community that the COVID-19 pandemic is the most urgent challenge that the world should deal with. Whether on domestic epidemic control or international cooperation, the US has done almost nothing right compared to China's efforts to assist others and its successful control measures for domestic outbreaks.

"In response to US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's 'new Iron Curtain speech' at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library on Thursday declaring a new cold war against China, Shen said, 'We can also ask 'is Pompeo an ally of coronavirus?' Because he wants to confuse the world to target the wrong enemy amid the tough fight against the pandemic, so that the virus can kill more people, especially US people, since his country is in the worst situation.'

Shen said, 'In 2018, US Vice President Mike Pence already made a speech which the media saw as a new 'Iron Curtain speech,' and in 2020, Pompeo made a similar speech again, which means their cold war idea is not popular and brings no positive responses from its allies, so they need to try time and again. Of course, they will fail again.'" [My Emphasis]

Wow! The suggestion that Trump, Pompeo, Pence, and company want to "kill more people, especially US people" seems to be proven via their behavior which some of us barflies recognize and have discussed. Now that notion is out in the public, internationally. You don't need Concentration Camps and ovens when the work can be done via the dysfunctional structure of your economy and doing nothing about the situation.

Shen provides the clincher, what Gruff, myself, and others have said here:

"'So if we want to win this competition that was forced by the US, we must focus on our own development and not get distracted. The US is not afraid of a cold war with us, it is afraid of our development.'" [My Emphasis]

My synopsis of both articles omitted some additional info, so do please click the links to read them fully.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 26 2020 17:34 utc | 113

"The meeting gathered experts from [many countries including] US, China, Britain, India, Russia and Canada. [... they said] "Washington has made a huge mistake as it has chosen the wrong target - China - to be 'the common enemy or common fear' to reshape its declining leadership among the West.
karlof1 | Jul 26 2020 17:34 utc

I could not agree more. Tuvalu is the most insidious enemy, hiring armies of poor trolls, buying cheap adds, collecting bounties for click baiting to finance more adds and subverting democracies left all over the world, particularly, with English language. This is the correct target!

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 26 2020 18:38 utc | 114

JC @112: "...at the same it crates a new class of citizens where wealth and selfishness means more than Nationalism..."

And then China arrests those capitalists when they get carried away with avarice and imagine themselves to be Chinese versions of western oligarchs who can do whatever they please.

The Chinese are using market economics as a tool to develop their economy. They are not yielding sovereignty to market economics, though, and that is precisely why the West is infuriated with them. The West assumed that market economics would dominate Chinese politics like it has with so many other countries, but the communists have prevented that from happening.

China's Communists have been doing a very good job of navigating through extremely difficult challenges that the West has thrown at them. They are competent and not at all wallowing in hubris and delusion like western leaders are. I see no change in that for the near future.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 26 2020 21:22 utc | 115

karlof1 @113

That's an excellent article. That reinforces my assessment that China's eyes are wide open. That leaves as the only unknown just how far America's madness will take them.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 26 2020 21:25 utc | 116

As I have shown in the open thread, propaganda is for losers. I think what I said was sufficient, but I would like to add another thought. If you absolutely need a task done, what is more likely to be successful? To do it yourself, or to con other people into doing it for you? I'm not asking which will cost less of your rapidly dwindling resources, or which will yield a better outcome. No, I'm merely asking which approach is likelier to get some effort going. And to me, the answer is quite obvious: if you think a task is absolutely necessary, you do it yourself. Deceiving others into doing it for you is far, far less likely to get it done.

However, if you haven't the strength to do the job directly, deception may be necessary. That's why I'm not worried by Piggy Pomptard's propaganda -- the very loudness of his verbal cheating (props to Richard Wolff) betrays his desperation.

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 26 2020 23:35 utc | 117

@karlof1 | Jul 26 2020 17:34 utc | 113

Very good comment, thanks.


Shen Yi: "The US is not afraid of a cold war with us, it is afraid of our development."

A bullseye hit! And I would like to add that not only is the US afraid of being overtaken, its elites are also absolutely terrified of being overtaken by a socialist economy. The mere existence of China is a proof that socialist economies can work, gives developing countries a clear path to escaping from the Empire's oppression, and threatens the Empire's underpinnings.

I think the fear of socialism is the primary reason for the US persecution of Huawei: it is one of the world's largest corporations, bigger even than Boeing -- and it is owned by its employees (it is a co-op on steroids). If it continues to succeed, people will begin to wonder whether oligarches are necessary. Of course, that prospect is alarming to the oligarches.

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 27 2020 0:05 utc | 118

@Cyril | Jul 27 2020 0:05 utc | 118

Please replace the last sentence of my previous comment with "Of course, that prospect is alarming to the oligarches (like Trump)."

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 27 2020 0:10 utc | 119

Cyril @ 117 & 118 -- ".... if you haven't the strength to do the job directly, deception may be necessary.... the very loudness of his verbal cheating (Pomp-Ass' propaganda) betrays his desperation.... If it (Huawei's co-op) continues to succeed, people will begin to wonder whether oligarches are necessary...."

Evil does not need to bare its ugly face unless gentle persuasion has failed. Look, these days they cannot even persuade some in Europe to join in their Coalition Of The Willing Thieves.

The US leadership's shrillness on behalf of the elites / oligarchs betrays their game. They may fool boobus americanus, but not the world.

It is not being overtaken, not socialism, not any other-ism that the elites / oligarchs fear, but the potential loss of the skim -- the easy lunch money -- that comes from sitting at the head table of world finance, through which they want ALL global commerce, production, creative energies to flow.

By projecting their own evil ways on others, they fear the CCP, whom they think may one day reduce -- perhaps intentionally, perhaps not -- their flow of free lunch money. Better for the bastards to move now than later.

But first, they bare their teeth ( thusly their lack of manners ), and if the CCP backs down, so much the better.

But if not, some kinetic action is coming because, just like teenagers who think they are invincible, these bastards cannot see any other outcome than winning, despite losing four time in Asia (China, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan).

Pity the young people of America, who will be the ones on the front lines, not the children of the elites / oligarchs, who will all be found to have flat feet of a sudden. LOL.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Jul 27 2020 5:36 utc | 120

this monopoly is but one of the types of wrongs Americans have had to put up with in USA governed America

had competition been allowed these items would never have found a successful market..
note the permeable reach exposed in the article.

Once again, it would have been totally impossible to extract and relocate American industrial might and technology from highly productive America to China without copyright, patent and rule of law made privatization monopolies. These laws that created monopoly powers were made available to the removers by the USA .

Posted by: snake | Jul 27 2020 15:15 utc | 121

Remember that Ukraine had the fifth-largest nuclear arsenal in the world after the breakup of the USSR. The West agreed to help them disarm in exchange for guarantees to help defend their territorial sovereignty.

So since the West has reneged on their end of the deal, isn't it only fair to give the nukes back?

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jul 26 2020 8:59 utc | 102

On one hand, there are few things reliable in the West. Sun sets there, but otherwise you should count on yourself. On the other hand, I would like to see links to actual "guarantees". I recall that the deal was that Russia took responsibility for the debts of Soviet Union. Now that Ukraine has "better" ties with the West, it gets experts training them in corruption (like the recent story of Jaroslaw Nowak) and some grudging loans. Ukraine allowed itself to be positioned in the nowhere land, too eastern to be trusted by the West, too anti-Russian to successfully inherit technologies and markets that it had before independence.

For example, a tiny tanker ship got moored on a shoal next to a beach in Odessa. That happened in the Fall, and till today, nobody knows what to do with it. Some failed attempts to changed its position, other failed attempts to pass the buck. Nuclear power provides a huge part of electricity there, reactors are aging, expertise to handle them is vanishing. Ukrainians themselves should be grateful that they are not in charge of stockpiles of any nuclear weapons. Stockpiles of conventional ammunition exploded quite a few times...

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 27 2020 17:17 utc | 122

Take the most racist, lazy, and delusional rednecks you can find in the world and give them nukes. What could possibly go wrong?

Before the Soviet Union was dissolved nearly 100% of Ukrainian homes had what the UN calls "improved water", which means safe and sanitized indoor running water. Even before Maidan that was down below 87%. The number of miles of paved roads in Ukraine has decreased every year since the country became "independent".

The Ukrainians cannot do something as simple as maintaining their most basic infrastructure. They had the biggest military in Europe, but got their asses handed to them by some farmers and miners in one corner of their country. The Ukrops cannot even consider restarting their aggression against those farmers and miners without some other country re-supplying them with more weapons, and this despite the fact that the Soviet Union left the Ukraine with sufficient industry and technology to go to the Moon if they'd wanted to.

Give atomic weapons to those ultimate losers? Even Americans are not that stupid.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 27 2020 17:57 utc | 123

@kiwiklown | Jul 27 2020 5:36 utc | 120

It is not being overtaken, not socialism, not any other-ism that the elites / oligarchs fear, but the potential loss of the skim -- the easy lunch money -- that comes from sitting at the head table of world finance, through which they want ALL global commerce, production, creative energies to flow.

Actually, the elites fear each other more than they fear an ism. Predators exist in any ecosystem, and the highest level predators in global finance are a fearsome bunch. The oligarches also fear a socialist revolution, but that is probably a secondary nightmare.

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 27 2020 23:21 utc | 124

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