Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 11, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-55

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

The School of Medicine of the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) has posted a series of videos in which Department Chair Bob Wachter and various medical specialist discuss specific aspects of the Covid-19 epidemic. Yesterday's grand round was about The State of the Pandemic, Opening the Schools, and the Outbreak at San Quentin State Prison. Top first hand knowledge without politics.

This will probably have foreign policy consequences: Dozens of US Marines in Japan's Okinawa get coronavirus - Yahoo

[I am off for a family day.]

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on July 11, 2020 at 16:35 UTC | Permalink

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Surprise "Russian University Successfully Completes First COVID-19 Vaccine Trials" and hope will be for "Worldly Good"

I Thought China Cansino expected to be first, now in phase 3 clinical trials, Brazil, UAE and Canada. Bless them happy not the Yank or Brit vaccines

Posted by: JC | Jul 12 2020 20:39 utc | 101

Some of you must have heard already, there‘s a military ship on fire in the port of San Diego. The USS Bonhomme Richard, an amphibious landing ship:

https://mobile.twitter.com/fox5sandiego/status/1282385239562690563

What do you make of it?

That ship is part of Expeditionary Strike Group 3, Wikipedia says. Was it deployed anytime in recent months and weeks, was the ship involved in anything lately?

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jul 12 2020 20:45 utc | 102

@ JC there is a recent book which analyses how the US policy of preventive mass murder and torture in Indonesia has inspired policies, structures and knowhow in many of US client states : https://vincentbevins.com/book/

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jul 12 2020 21:07 utc | 103

JC #100

Thank you for clearing the air on Sukarno. The Indonesian coup that destroyed the democratic socialis government he led was a tragic loss to the people of Indonesia. The coup leader Suharto fully backed by the CIA murdered many hundreds of thousands of civilians and their elected officials and educators and medical staff. It was a ruthless murderous purge. The Dulles brothers at the top.

Suharto then ruled for decades and Indonesia became the evil corruption ridden prison it is today. This sad country is our planets exemplar failed state ruled by criminal oligarchs and their owned courts and religion.

Indonesian people are great in their spirit and humility, they deserve better.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 21:19 utc | 104

@NemesisCalling | Jul 11 2020 22:29 utc | 26

But us Americans built the A-bomb first, pal!

Feel free to brag about inventing the atomic bomb.

While you're rejecting all things Chinese, I suggest you use your fingers to eat your dinners from now on, as the fork was invented in China. (The article credits the Qijia culture with the invention, but for some reason neglects to mention that the Qijia area is in the Yellow River region, in the heart of China.)

In fact, eating with their fingers was what all Europeans did until about the Renaissance, including the rich nobles.

So how about it, Nemesis? Wouldn't it be fun to get sphagetti sauce all over your hands?

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 12 2020 21:41 utc | 105

@Cyril | Jul 12 2020 21:41 utc | 105

Correction: by "fork" I mean the "dinner fork" of course.

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 12 2020 21:48 utc | 106

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 21:19 utc | 104

You're welcome to criticize me if I am wrong, me rather taking an easy way out with whatever excuses will never end your mistrust the freaking American shit head. I'll face the music headon. I'm sure, everyone growing up facing many hurdle and encounters were different.

I came to befriend an Indonesia Chinese, he left Indonesia returned to the motherland (China), after a few years he escaped to HK. We were extremely poor at time hungry, before leaving home. Dad gave me a Swiss Titoni watch (not an expensive watch but cheap to moderately price watch). I pawned the watch, share to buy food. We meet the last time when he was a custom officer HK station in New Territories. He knew I will be in HK on my way to the wonderful promised land America. He came on board and gave me a camel hair pullover sweater. I still think of him today.

Posted by: JC | Jul 12 2020 22:17 utc | 107

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jul 12 2020 21:07 utc | 103

Many thanks for your contribution toward better understanding many failed to understands during their youth or growing up.... I'm not trying to change or rewrite history.

MoA seem to attract many SEA folks.... Welcome, share and share alike.....

Posted by: JC | Jul 12 2020 22:20 utc | 108

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 12 2020 21:41 utc | 105

"Feel free to brag about inventing the atomic bomb."

Good one, and the Jap probably proud being the first receiving it. I wouldn't be surprised Trump sincerely believe Xi Jinping is peeing in his pant if he tried threaten China...

Trump wanna China to be with Russia on the nuclear armaments talks, China's Fu Cong said “I can assure you that if the U.S. says that they are ready to come down to the Chinese level, China will be happy to participate the next day"

Posted by: JC | Jul 12 2020 22:37 utc | 109

===> A User | Jul 12 2020 3:44 utc | 54
FFS you're a petty little prick aren't you? ...
Grow up or piss off - the choice is yours .

Aplogies (on behalf) for the crudities
Not all Kiwis are thusly :-)

Posted by: David KNZ | Jul 12 2020 22:57 utc | 110

JC #107

There is a great artist who has done much to maintain the memory of the Indonesian slaughter - Dadang Christanto. His father was butchered by the murderous mobs that came for the Chinese during the destruction of the Sukarno independence. His works are worth considering and he has a FB page as well. Dadang is a great artist

Indonesia has produced great writers and one I am aware of has been translated to english - Pramoedya Ananta Toer a brilliant thinker and communist. Suharto had him imprisoned on a dreadful island where most around him died. He drafted his major four part story by having his fellow inmates commit chapters to memory and when he was finally released years later assembled the written text. All his books were banned in Indonesia and they are treasures to read. The Australian deputy ambassador brought his manuscripts to Australia and had them translated to english and published. He does not write directly about the Indonesian Holocaust but depicts the oppression of humankind in great prose and simple sentence.

Do read This Earth of Mankind, House of Glass, The Girl from the Coast. Treasures.
There is solidarity.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 22:59 utc | 111

Cyril #105

"The fork was invented in China"

Read Robert Temple The Genius of China

Also the Chinese invented porcelain, then uprisings caused them to forget porcelain, then the Englanders invented porcelain then the Russians who returned the knowledge to the Chinese etc. Then the Englanders bombed the great porcelain treasure house in Dresden in 1945 and the world heritage was vaporised. Read Edmund de Waal The White Road

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 23:16 utc | 112

Cyril #105

In fact, eating with their fingers was what all Europeans did until about the Renaissance, including the rich nobles.

So how about it, Nemesis? Wouldn't it be fun to get sphagetti sauce all over your hands?

The europeans perfected the fecal-oral route for all those lovely virus and bacteria and parasite eggs to re-enter their gut. And then some oriental gave them the fork and saved them to colonise the world. So it goes.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 23:24 utc | 113

JC and others who have been conversing with him on the issue of the Indonesian military's persecution and slaughter of Chinese Indonesians and others perceived to be Communist or sympathetic to Communism or socialism might be interested in watching Joshua Oppenheimer's "The Act of Killing" to see how small-time thugs and young people (especially those in the Pancasila Youth movement) alike were caught up in the anti-Communist brainwashing frenzy in Indonesia during the 1960s and participated in the mass persecution and slaughter themselves.

Oppenheimer tracked down some of these former killers in North Sumatra and got them to re-enact their crimes in whatever from they desired. For various reasons, some of them psychological, they were quite enthusiastic about this idea. Significantly they chose to re-enact their crimes as a Hollywood Western / Godfather-style pastiche film, even getting their relatives and friends to play extras.

The mass murderers interviewed did well for themselves with some of them even becoming politicians and rising to the level of Cabinet Minister in the Indonesian government. The film also shows something of how deeply corruption is embedded in everyday life with one prospective political candidate going around bribing villagers and demanding money from small-time ethnic Chinese shopkeepers in his electorate and threatening them with violence if they do not cough up.

The major issue I have with the film is that by focusing on these mass murderers in North Sumatra, it misses the overall national and international political and social context that still supports and applauds what these killers did. As long as this continues, the likelihood that similar persecutions and genocidal purges of outsider groups and individuals, be they Chinese, Christian, Shi'a and other heterodox Muslim, academics, trade unionists, separatists in Maluku, West Papua or other parts of Indoneisa, and all these purges supported by the West in some way, will occur in the future is strong.

Posted by: Jen | Jul 12 2020 23:50 utc | 114

Here's a great must-see 36-minute piece by Abby Martin about the US perpetual occupation of Afghanistan.

It was posted on YouTube on June 26, but I only came across it last night thanks to a Paul Craig Roberts article, and I don't think it's been mentioned here at MoA yet by anyone yet (at least I wasn't able to find any mentions using the MoA search.)

I'm sure many of us have come across many of the points over the years, but she does a great job of reviewing and bringing it all together.

Afghanistan War Exposed: An Imperial Conspiracy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3LFbOSPfrE

Google/Youtube has of course made the video "age-restricted", though I don't really see why, requiring sign-in and probably greatly reducing its viewership as a result.

This alternate link to the same video doesn't seem to require sign-in:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/C3LFbOSPfrE

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Jul 13 2020 0:04 utc | 115

USS Bonhomme Richard burning out in San Diego harbour - the USN can't deal with a fire on a capital ship in harbour- what hope would they have in the SCS - this should be the event that triggers Washington to understand just how vulnerable its surface capital ships are against the latest Russian, Iranian and Chinese anti-ship missiles

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jul 13 2020 0:41 utc | 116

USS Bonhomme Richard burning out in San Diego harbour - the USN can't deal with a fire on a capital ship in harbour- what hope would they have in the SCS - this should be the event that triggers Washington to understand just how vulnerable its surface capital ships are against the latest Russian, Iranian and Chinese anti-ship missiles

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jul 13 2020 0:41 utc | 117

You'll love this one...brilliant comparison.

Jurassic Park Containment Efforts"

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 0:45 utc | 118


Glad I didn't retire to Florida...

Florida reports 15,000 new coronavirus cases, smashing national record
The alarming figure puts the spotlight on a state that has become one of the biggest hot spots in the world.


The positivity rate of new infections was 11.25 percent, which is at least a two-week low and down significantly since the state’s record high of 18 percent reported on Wednesday. Still, public health experts express concern about positivity rates over 10 percent, a number Florida has not dipped below since June 23.

They should be aiming for *three* percent.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 0:56 utc | 119

American Passports Are Worthless Now (Map)
Oh the places you can’t go

Now all those countries should make that permanent...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 0:59 utc | 120

The U.S. Has Forgotten the Past and Can’t See the Future
The only way to know where the virus is spreading is with heavy testing. We knew this months ago. And yet we’re still blind.

That's what the US *does*...forget the past and can't see the future. Always was, always will be.


The rest of the world — who have excess tests (because they don’t need them) — has no interest in helping us. China tested 11 million people in one weekend. But Trump has made them all pick up our WHO burden.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 1:06 utc | 121

You know it's still going on...

/r/2020PoliceBrutality @r2020PB
Official Account for the Subreddit /r/2020PoliceBrutality

Dedicated to Cataloging Police Brutality
|We do not promote or advocate for violence|
|Apolitical|
reddit.com/r/2020PoliceBrutality

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 1:15 utc | 122

@114 - I would also add that Oppenheimer's follow up film "The Look of Silence" is well worth a watch, too.

@120 - At least we can still go to Ukraine!

Posted by: lex talionis | Jul 13 2020 1:17 utc | 123

To put it very simply your account is a nonsense: far from being innocents the liberals in Russia, committed to the preservation of their wealth and the disfranchisement of the workers and peasants, and intent on flinging further armies into the meat grinder of their own western front, were the problem. When they betrayed their fellow countrymen by allying themselves with foreign invaders they became an enemy to be fought. <=needs more to be understood..

regards post by: bevin @ 6There is a growing anti-globalist movement forming NemesisCalling @ 15 responds. IMO we need a generational awakening to sound domestic economic policy which d\n entail allowing your national elites to exploit globalism's inequities... <=best way to deny the exploitative elites access to global anything is to turn off monopoly power..no copyright, no patent, private contract w/ government, privatization. . instantly the nation of America will redevelop its industry in spite of the USA and its global economist.

Chinese still make the best and cheapest... Yea the Chinese never invent anything, they cheat, they steal and lied... It's not whether made in China, Korea or America... by: JC @ 16 <= . the Chinese and Vietnamese realized copyrights and patent were monopolies which would prevent them from ever profiting from the knowledge they had acquired by allowing the elite of the USA, Uk and Israel to do their business in these host countries for free... Americans at home, were blocked from competing by domestic laws established by the USA to give those that did business in foreign lands, and advantage over USA governed Americans. It was and still is impossible for an American company to compete, not because Americans cannot generate the technology, but because the laws, that make the elite and oligarch powerful, are monopolies, and the USA courts enforce monopoly laws like no other. the laws of monopoly benefit of the elite and allowed the elite to take the guts out of America as they left for more profitable exploits.
The Chinese and Vietnamese and just about everybody else outsmarted the UK, USA, and Israeli elite and their use of government, law and military; the foreigners being exploited just ignored the laws of monopoly, and competed..

rule of law facilitated monopoly power is mutual exclusive with open free trade competition; monopolism, not capitalism, allowed the rest of the world to defeat and bankrupt America.

The horse left the barn a long time ago and you want to put it back in?? trump can fake posture all he wants... now you want biden to fake posture?? i think you'd get quicker results starting an alternative party in the usa.. by: james 17 <== BS james, the Oligarchs got the USA to wrap everything the hay, the horses, the green in the pasture and just about everything else, except the barn [which they left to deteriorate].. into monopoly powered copyrights, patents, privatized government contracts and then it used the private mercenary military force to assist its monopoly powered corporations to do business in just about every place in the world but America.

The monopoly laws imposed by the USA, stopped Americans from competing. I could tell you several personal stories, where big companies shut down in America without even considering option of staying.. The corporations were part of a program designed to bankrupt America. There is a giant difference between Americans and the bedlams at the corporations that own and run the USA.

NemesisCalling @ 15 says "the path forward is to stop buying Chinese products. but JC @ 20 says, , Smartphone - International Version. Ebay paid $350 plus free shipping, took a week from Shenzhen China.. A similar Samsung will cost more than $700!!
bought a Huawei Honor View V20 Dual-SIM 256GB ROM/8GB RAM, GSM Only, No CDMA Factory Unlocked 4G/LTE Smartphone - International Version. Ebay paid $350 plus free shipping, took a week from Shenzhen China.. A similar Samsung will cost more than $700!!

..the path backward (forward) is to stop buying Chinese products. <= not buying Chinese products is not the way Americans can return America to its previous successful condition. Somehow Americans need the laws of monopoly to be removed from the books, then let Americans compete. Capitalism is still the king of economics, but monopolism is an economic blight.

Posted by: JC @ 20 <= I agree with you JC the Huawei Honor view is superior .. the solution for America is not to allow the USA to force its citizens not to buy from China, or anywhere, but for Americans to start up companies that can compete . competition is the only way.

The capitalism the USA and mostly elsewhere has no such respect for humanity. by: uncle tungsten @ 30 <= the USA does not allow capitalism in the America it governs>== everything controlled by the USA is monopoly powered feudalism. Capitalism is open free trade government officiated competition with access to participate guaranteed to be wide open.

Surprise "Russian University Successfully Completes First COVID-19 Vaccine Trials" and hope will be for "Worldly Good"
Iran announced they too have a Iran already has a vaccine.. and a new idea in vaccine development to go with it.

I Thought China Cansino expected to be first, now in phase 3 clinical trials, Brazil, UAE and Canada. Bless them happy not the Yank or Brit vaccines by: JC @ 101

Posted by: snake | Jul 13 2020 1:17 utc | 124

from the looks of it the US Navy ship, USS Bonhomme Richard, that caught fire in San Diego is a total lost, the fire has been burning for almost 6 hours and there have been several explosions onboard. The US Navy has had an awful accident record for the past 10 years and the lost of this ship will make their goal of a 350 ship Navy impossible to meet

Posted by: Kadath | Jul 13 2020 1:18 utc | 125

Trump Manages to Wear a Mask and Undercut Mask-Wearing at the Same Time


Masks, the president said as he left the White House, “have a time and a place.” Specifically, Trump explained, “when you’re in a hospital,” as he would be, “talking to a lot of soldiers and people that in some cases just got off the operating tables.”

Trump: I’ve never been against masks pic.twitter.com/FVp4HRWZdy
— Acyn Torabi (@Acyn) July 11, 2020

In other words, the president made no effort to cast the wearing of masks as an inconvenient but necessary precaution to take in non-medical settings, like grocery stores or restaurants, where his supporters have been filmed day after day refusing to cover their faces, while loudly insisting that health orders intended to combat the pandemic are some sort of Democratic hoax.

Worst. President. Ever.

And our Trump followers here will now weigh in to support his BS.

Worst. Commentators. Ever.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 1:22 utc | 126

‘I Couldn’t Do Anything’: The Virus and an E.R. Doctor’s Suicide

Waiting for some moron here to say, "Well, it wasn't the virus that killed her..."

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 1:28 utc | 127

Geniuses...Does he comment here?

Fact check: Metal strip in medical masks is not a 5G antenna

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 1:33 utc | 128

I'm a Moron, and damn proud of it!

Moron Lives Matter! MLM!

Posted by: blues | Jul 13 2020 1:36 utc | 129

x LAC standoff | Xi Jinping’s mobilisation order, months of planning preceded border moves
"Several Chinese incursions across the LAC took place almost simultaneously in locations several hundred kilometres apart — some even hours apart on the same day — leading to skirmishes in early and mid-May."
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/lac-standoff-xi-jinpings-mobilisation-order-months-of-planning-preceded-border-moves/article32061608.ece

Posted by: Antonym | Jul 13 2020 1:37 utc | 130

Lower cognitive ability linked to non-compliance with social distancing guidelines during the coronavirus outbreak


“The decision of whether or not to follow social distancing guidelines is a difficult one, especially when there is a conflict between the societal benefits (e.g., prevent straining public health resources) and personal costs (e.g., loss in social connection and financial challenges). This decision critically relies on our mental capacity in retaining multiple pieces of potentially conflicting information in our head, which is referred to as working memory capacity,” Xie told PsyPost.

Add that to the cognitive dissonance aspect referenced in a previous post...this study sort of reflects the same issue: a lot of people can't deal with intellectual conflict.

Like I've been saying...*morons*...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 1:38 utc | 131

@ Jen 114
"As long as this continues, the likelihood that similar persecutions and genocidal purges of outsider groups and individuals, be they Chinese, Christian, Shi'a and other heterodox Muslim, academics, trade unionists, separatists in Maluku, West Papua or other parts of Indoneisa, and all these purges supported by the West in some way, will occur in the future is strong."

Yeah, "we" Anglos" are the only bad guys on this planet - not.
The CIA & co are not yet into slaughtering of Christians. Extremist Indonesian Sunni Muslims were guilty in the above atrocities, continuing as harassments till today. Hard to swallow: bad brown people do exist!

Posted by: Antonym | Jul 13 2020 1:44 utc | 132

Not that I like quoting CNN, but this piece pretty much says it right...This is a disaster and it's *all* on Trump.

The US is diving into a dark Covid hole -- and there's no plan to get out


It's unimaginable that any other modern President would have handled things this way.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 1:48 utc | 133


My new Twitter feed just gets better and better...It's like the tweeters know who posts here...

Texas patient in 30s dies after reportedly citing ‘mistake’ of attending ‘COVID party’


“Just before the patient died, they looked at their nurse and said, ‘I think I made a mistake, I thought this was a hoax, but it’s not,’” Dr. Jane Appleby said in a video posted by the news station.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 1:56 utc | 134

Touting criticized study, White House presses FDA to authorize hydroxychloroquine — again

Some people here will be happy about that... I have no opinion - other than that Trump and his crew of *morons* needs to stay out of the science.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 1:59 utc | 135

Lex Talionis @ 123:

Yes I did see the follow-up film "The Look of Silence" but it was quite gruelling to watch and again it didn't set the events into their historical political context. When watching these films, you ask yourself "why did these killings occur? why have the killers never been brought to justice? why are they so proud of what they did? who supported them and encouraged them?" and then "is it possible these killings might happen again, and why?"

Posted by: Jen | Jul 13 2020 2:10 utc | 136

@ 39 juliania.. how can the usa shoot for lower incarceration rates when the prison system in the usa is privatized and has lobbyists pushing for shit like 3 strikes and you are out?? being held without bail for indefinite lengths of time - this is also a lucrative thing private prisons! the usa has one messed up set up with regard to its penal system... a better approach would be for the usa to move away from a focus on money to one on mercy.. i can't see that happening any time soon...

Posted by: james | Jul 12 2020 1:07 utc | 47

James and Juliania, I think the fact that this prison scam has become so brazen it may finally be so loud in the background that change may actually happen. The bank-owned private outfits get the least risk to the prison or the public, are guaranteed payment for an occupancy in the ninety percentile at more money than DOC can do it themselves in Arizona. Hopefully it is fixed this time.

Posted by: TominAZ | Jul 13 2020 2:34 utc | 137

@97 blues

Referring to China, you say "the 'people' have absolutely zero say in regard to what the government/system actually does do."

This is absolutely not the case. The exact opposite is the true picture, ironically so, since the Chinese government conducts more polls than any other entity on the planet. When one studies China's system of government one learns how all that input from the people is actually put to use, being scientifically (i.e. not politically) fed into the decision-making process.

China's way of governing actually presents a measure of democracy, in terms of the voice of the people being heard and acted upon, that is vastly greater than the so-called democracies.

Godfree Roberts over at Unz Review is probably your simplest path to knowing this. Searching his archive there will yield data-driven reports on how the Communist Party actually works, how the President exercises power, what the Constitution dictates (and the penalties for not following it), and how satisfied with their current government are the Chinese people - who are not easy to please when it comes to governance, and who have a history that shows they will rebel when they're not happy.

Try this as a starter from Roberts:
Selling Democracy to China - Still too soon to tell?

Today, Chinese democracy resembles Proctor and Gamble more than Pericles. There are more than a thousand polling firms in China and its government spends prolifically on surveys, as author Jeff J. Brown says, “My Beijing neighborhood committee and town hall are constantly putting up announcements, inviting groups of people–renters, homeowners, over seventies, women under forty, those with or without medical insurance, retirees–to answer surveys. The CPC is the world’s biggest pollster for a reason: China’s democratic ‘dictatorship of the people’ is highly engaged at the day-to-day, citizen-on-the-street level. I know, because I live in a middle class Chinese community and I question them all the time. I find their government much more responsive and democratic than the dog-and-pony shows back home, and I mean that seriously”.

Even the imperious Mao would remind colleagues, “If we don’t investigate public opinion we have no right to voice our own opinion. Public opinion is our guideline for action,” which is why Five Year Plans are the results of intensive polling. Citizens’ sixty-two percent voter participation suggests that they think their votes count.

It may be that this one article answers the question of democracy for the interested reader, but likely one should read a few more to become convinced.

~~

The example of China, which operates under Confucian values and regards stable society as the highest good, is causing many in the world to rethink the idea of "democracy" and what that concept actually entails. As Chinese political scientist Zhang Weiwe has pointed out, in the US, the parties are "parties of interest" - whoever wins the vote gets to push the values of that interest, and the people represented by the losing party are simply outcast from the "democracy" until the next vote. He has a 5-minute clip in great English for those interested: The CPC is not a "party"

China's government by contrast is a "party of all" and acts on behalf of no vested interest but instead for the greatest benefit for the many.

To get a glimpse of how this works, read the March 2019 commentary on the two annual governance sessions that decide ongoing policy for China, which supplies this acute understanding of the true heart of representative governance:

Democracy is not a decoration, but a means of solving problems.
- Commentary: Chinese democracy puts Western illusion in dust


Posted by: Grieved | Jul 13 2020 2:34 utc | 138

@Cyril | Jul 12 2020 21:41 utc | 105

Another correction: "sphagetti sauce" should be "spaghetti sauce".

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 13 2020 2:46 utc | 139

Yeah, "we" Anglos" are the only bad guys on this planet - not.
The CIA & co are not yet into slaughtering of Christians. Extremist Indonesian Sunni Muslims were guilty in the above atrocities, continuing as harassments till today. Hard to swallow: bad brown people do exist!

Posted by: Antonym | Jul 13 2020 1:44 utc | 131


Most poster here never said anything close to that brown people always the innocent. They all note that bad arabs exist, bad brown indians exist, bad negro exist, bad Chinese exist, etc. You're missing the context very much ? Most just point that the bad Chinese, arabs, browns make up the rosy 'democratic' and 'neoliberal' faction that the anglos supported as well. We find fault that the idea of 'democracy', 'capitalism', 'liberalism', etc to be universal truth rather than just idea think on the same level with 'communism', 'socialism', among others.

Posted by: Lucci | Jul 13 2020 2:48 utc | 140

@JC | Jul 12 2020 22:37 utc | 109

[China invented the dinner fork] Good one

Thanks.


I wouldn't be surprised Trump sincerely believe Xi Jinping is peeing in his pant if he tried threaten China...

Someone who lies so much, like Trump, will often have trouble keeping things straight. I wouldn't be surprised if he started believing his own propaganda.


Trump wanna China to be with Russia on the nuclear armaments talks, China's Fu Cong said “I can assure you that if the U.S. says that they are ready to come down to the Chinese level, China will be happy to participate the next day"

Heh, Fu knows he can say that safely, since there's absolutely no way the US will ever cut its nukes down to China's level.

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 13 2020 2:56 utc | 141

@73 c

Many thanks for the links. I'm sure it was the Nation article that I read. It's worth repeating here. Vietnam's response strikes me a more scientifically precise response than anything I've read from any other nation. Rather than going for mass testing they went for pinpoint focus on discovered cases with superb contact tracing, locking down each occurrence in turn, along with all its ramifications. Absolutely zeroing in on the virus at work. Perfect example of how to do it. Brilliant work.

That article again, from April 24, 2020, is here:
Vietnam May Have the Most Effective Response to Covid-19

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 13 2020 2:57 utc | 142

@uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 23:16 utc | 112

Then the Englanders bombed the great porcelain treasure house in Dresden in 1945 and the world heritage was vaporised. Read Edmund de Waal The White Road

I didn't know about the porcelain repository in Dresden. Thanks.


@uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 23:24 utc | 113

And then some oriental gave [the Europeans] the fork and saved them to colonise the world. So it goes.

I guess it's really true that no good deed goes unpunished.

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 13 2020 3:01 utc | 143


"Dr. Li-Meng Yan, specialized in virology and immunology at the Hong Kong School of Public Health, fled Hong Kong on April 28.... knowing that if she were caught she could be jailed or "disappeared.""

Constant daily headlines, China bashing from ZeroHedge and SCMP. Dr. Li-Meng a mainlander virology left her Indian husband in Hong Kong and "escaped,” seeking safety in the USA - the father of all democracy. Her husband refused to "escape" with her. There were two recent similar cases in Hong Kong.

"Chinese spy" Wang (William) Liqiang a 27-year-old self-proclaimed spy "defect to Australia." He too a mainlander worked in Hong Kong. In Australia Liqiang and his wife assets of $3.25 million were frozen. In October 2016 Wang was sentenced in Fujian province convicted of fraud. He said the CCP gave Han Kuo-yu, former mayor of Kaohsiung in Taiwan, US$2.8 million to help Kuo-yu win January 2020 election. Fact - Tsai Ing-wen won because of the smeared Taiwan election.

The last victim’s Simon Cheng Man-kit, former employee UK's Hong Kong Consulate a trade and investment officer went to Shenzhen and vanished. Later a released video shows of him in a message parlor or rather soliciting prostitutes, which is a crime in China. He was sacked and took the generous offered and moved to London where he now remained.

Every CCP victims claimed to have been tortured by police. Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison really hated China... My opinion ZeroHedge and SCMP (South China Morning Post) are USA and Taiwan Trojan Horses, start another China civil war. That's the only way to bring China on its knees another century of foreign humiliation. Regardless which sides we choose another civil wars will be....... I love China.

Please dun attack me, I'm more than willing to lay out my conspiracies theory. Thanks

Posted by: JC | Jul 13 2020 3:16 utc | 144

Richard Steven Hack #133
“Just before the patient died, they looked at their nurse and said, ‘I think I made a mistake, I thought this was a hoax, but it’s not,’” Dr. Jane Appleby said in a video posted by the news station.

Yeah and imagine their surprise when they get to the heavenly table with "ATONEMENTS" sign and the small print says "no mask - no penance - FU"

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 3:28 utc | 145

JC #143

Did you say - "seeking safety in the USA - the father of all democracy"?

I wont retaliate but may I politely refer you to the Indonesian experience, the Chilean experience, the Cuban experience, the Venezuelan experience.

Then of course there is the way this father of all democracy has treated its voters. You don't have the unrestricted right to vote in the USA, you have the most restricted access to the ballot box imaginable.

The graveyard of all democracy is a much more fitting reference for the USA. They even fill the graveyards at home these days as is the habit of US democracy and its caring.

I am beginning to see your posts as some sort of lame rendition of Ticked off Vic so you might enjoy the real thing here.

Barflies might note this rendition as it is sooooo topical right now.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 3:43 utc | 146

@ 99 psychohistorian... thanks for that... it looks interesting.. i couldn't find much info on the website though...

@ 136 tominAZ... thanks.. i hope you are right!

Posted by: james | Jul 13 2020 4:01 utc | 147

There was a good doco on TeeVee yesterday about the restoration of Notre Dame Cathedral. The French are throwing a helluva lot of money and expertise at the project. They're still in the ultra-careful cleanup phase but are simultaneously prepping to hit the GO button for rebuilding in many locations as soon as it's safe. For example, they've completed and installed the huge accurately-profiled timber frames designed to prevent the more than 3 dozen flying buttresses from collapsing which in turn will minimise the risk of the very tall walls collapsing before the roof is rebuilt. If work continues with the same speed and professionalism, it won't surprise me if they come close to Micron's "five years" 'promise'.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 13 2020 4:32 utc | 148

@145 uncle tungsten

You do understand that JC's use of that phrase was hugely sarcastic, do you not?

The context of everything he was saying makes it clear. JC was retelling, with disgust, the propaganda themes used against China, in this case using Hong Kong as the lever. Everything in that comment speaks of the wanton slander against China by several nations, and the biased reporting of that slander.

JC very clearly knows the US is NOT "the father of democracy" but there's a limit to how many things you can put in quotation marks.

JC is one of the commenters I immediately turn to for supportive information on China. Your comments seem to be supportive of my views on China. It seems to me the three of us should be more in agreement than not, on some things, especially China.

Perhaps you got the wrong impression of that comment?

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 13 2020 4:40 utc | 149

JC 143

Plenty of decent people have headed to five eyes thinking they would find a better life, but we also take in the scum of the world that can be used against their own countries. These generally rise to high places.
Imperial France seems of the same mindset and Chechen freedom fighters are now fighting for their freedom in France. Yankistans freedom fighter Osama Bin Larden was just fighting for freedom apparently. Like the AQ media wing 'White Helmets' that UK and Canada took in, not to mention the nazi's that participated in the genocides in their own countries in WWII.
When peasants living conditions are constantly improving, there will be no revolt and no civil war. Yankistan propaganda can't even come up with an opposition in China.
Angloshere propaganda mostly projects onto target countries what they themselves are doing.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 13 2020 4:56 utc | 150

Grieved #148

Perhaps you got the wrong impression of that comment?

OOps. Yes my sarc detector was on mute.

Humble apologies JC. May I shout you a hour at the bar sometime.

The video of ticked off vic is a good one for all the denialists in this world. I rerun it from time to time when I read some PR from Biden or Trump and need a mind cleanse.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 6:33 utc | 151

The West should be hunting Russian terrorists in every corner of the world. Eastern Ukraine, Syria,Libya, Venezuela, in all European countries in which they are killing Putin's critics.
Banning Russian passports from civilized countries would be a good start.
Putinist Fascism Not an Ideology but Rather a Set of Criminal ‘Understandings https://www.stopfake.org/en/putinist-fascism-not-an-ideology-but-rather-a-set-of-criminal-understandings-yakovenko-says/

Posted by: Alan | Jul 13 2020 6:35 utc | 152

Cyril #142

It was not the entire world porcelain repository in Dresden but the museums in that fair city housed their share plus considerable treasures of humanity. The collections came from all over the explored world and comprised centuries of trade and plunder.

There is much porcelain in St Petersburg afaik and no doubt the royal houses in the european sector. The public don't get to see these perfections of technology and human ingenuity too often.

Many thousands of hectares of forests were destroyed to dry the timber and later fire the kilns, and the Chinese kilns stretched in stages from the bottom to the top of slopes with periodic fire points and kilns along the line to peak the temperature and achieve the glaze melting point. Imagine how many forests went into the Qin Dynasty terracotta soldiers and that was only one emperor among many with that indulgence. Genius is an understatement for their efforts.

The perversity of the plundered forests to fire the kilns in the land that invented gunpowder to be erased by bombs from planes centuries later. sheesh.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 6:50 utc | 153

Peter AU1 #149

Yankistan propaganda can't even come up with an opposition in China.
Angloshere propaganda mostly projects onto target countries what they themselves are doing.

That is one of the great merits of the one party communist system - the democracy and policy development process lies within the party. One joins the party to participate in the process or else one accepts the process and gets on with life.

That renders outside interference powerless. Don't the west hate it. They once had an opening in HK and they swarmed like rats to exploit it. But the west lost that by repeating the Ukraine tactic. GOOD!

Now for the closure of all the embassies and trade missions in Hong Kong and the offer of their single placement in Wuhan or Beijing - the heart of the Chinese nation.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 7:00 utc | 154

Scotch Bingeington #102

re ship on fire


That ship is part of Expeditionary Strike Group 3, Wikipedia says. Was it deployed anytime in recent months and weeks, was the ship involved in anything lately?

With any luck it will take some of those adjacent warships with it.

Reminds me of the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. That doomed vessel was just launching the planes to deal yet another death blow on Hanoi from the Gulf of Tongkin. They had just received ancient volatile munitions all secured under the planes on deck. Not one plane was launched, a fire broke out when a missile misfired, the fire crew using foam was blown to smithereens as the dodgy munitions exploded and the next (poorly trained) fire crew sprayed water and so washed the jet fuel down below decks blazing away. Bulldozers then pushed all the planes overboard before the munitions overheated and blew the deck off.

The aggressor was neutered and the civilians and army of North Vietnam saved.

Lets see who this vessel has been busy killing. Or was it about to do a tour of "duty" killing around Venezuela?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 7:18 utc | 155

@ Grieved | Jul 13 2020 2:34 utc | 137

On other websites (except maybe Portland Indymedia) I don't get called out and hoist by my own petard. But here, it happens.

Funny thing. Whenever some moron comes up and asks me for my opinion about anything, I tell them to go (do whatever to) themselves. They are my enemy, wanting to know what I think while hiding what they think, so they get from me -- NOTHING (basic info-equity).

So the concept of opinion poll democracy doesn't fly in my little world. But maybe in China this can actually work. Democracy by other means, I guess.

Posted by: blues | Jul 13 2020 7:53 utc | 156

Posted by: blues | Jul 13 2020 1:36 utc | 128 I'm a Moron, and damn proud of it! Moron Lives Matter! MLM!

LOL Good one.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 7:57 utc | 157

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 1:59 utc | 134

You seem to be slowly succumbing to Trump derangement syndrome. try not to blame all the USAian problems, even Covid problems on Trump, as if the democrats would do any better. The last five or so presidents have been a disaster for the US and the world at large whether democrat or republican. It isn't all about Trump. He is a terrible president, but really no worse than Clinton, Bush or Obama, with equally terrible policies, often worse, whether at home or abroad.

The health care system in the US was a mess long before Trump, and Fauci (Gates and the big pharma boys) has largely been responsible for the overt Covid policy.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jul 13 2020 8:00 utc | 158

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 13 2020 4:56 utc | 149

Of course, harbouring opponents of a regime sometimes backfires for the West, as in France harbouring Khomeni before the Iranian revolution in 79.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jul 13 2020 8:07 utc | 159

Actually, Trump is by now a nebbish, a big loud man-in-a-suit -- merely a prominent nobody. He decides nothing. The Shadow State rules. Always has. Somebody should put a boot on these sociopaths, before they perpetrate more of their sadistic crimes on the sheeple.

Posted by: blues | Jul 13 2020 8:29 utc | 160

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jul 13 2020 0:41 utc | 117

Of course, to rectify that the US needs to increase military spending, because that approach worked oh-so-well for the last 2 decades.

The US military losing is winning for the MIC.

Posted by: JW | Jul 13 2020 8:29 utc | 161

re Posted by: AntiSpin | Jul 12 2020 16:06 utc | 88
who claimed
"Not quite true. The Rohingya have been committing mass slaughter against their Burmese hosts for a very long time." That's a . . . . erm fact I haven't heard before except from the ignorati - evidence please.

Posted by: A User | Jul 13 2020 8:47 utc | 162

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 3:43 utc | 145, 150
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 13 2020 4:56 utc | 149
Posted by: Grieved | Jul 13 2020 4:40 utc | 148
Posted by: Cyril | Jul 12 2020 21:41 utc | 105
Posted by: Jen | Jul 12 2020 23:50 utc | 114

The Players: Gary Liu - SCMP CEO, Joe Tsai Exc. Chairman Alibaba, Han Kuo-yu recalled Kaohsiung Mayor, Tsai Ing-wen two terms Taiwan president.

Here my conspiracy theory: Watch videos below in the order posted, note carefully, Gary Liu replied to each questions. 2nd video, watch Joe Tsai, why Alibaba bought SCMP fuck and disregard the AI shits what SCMP did in China..... Both Joe Tsai and Gary dual citizenships. Gary Taiwan/USA, Joe Tsai, HK/Canada (me confuse here do yr own searches to reconfirm citizenships)

Been reading (Website) SCMP few years. I knew who owned SCMP since the early 60's when I was a student in HK. It seem SCMP has become better than Washington Post or New York Times. SCMP adding or station new reporters worldwide. wrote original anti China articles, daily or China bashing. 2 or 3 reporters from various countries. For the last 2 years. I traces the reporters before reading the article..

How did Han Kuo-yu lost to Tsai Ing-wen and recalled Kaohsiung Mayor, when he turned Kaohsiung around before he decided to run in Taiwan president race earlier? Earlier I said my dad was a KMT officer, Joe Tsai father too in KMT camp.

More question: is Joe Tsai a Trojan horse, start another Chinese civil war? My opinion Joe Tsai is planted by US start another civil war between China and Taiwan and an internal revolute inside China. No one can beat China without themselves badly maul, Not even Russia, the smart move, previous regime change, example Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen, N and South Vietnam or the Koreans......

If I'm wrong so be it... this is my six attempts to get MoA interested. Tungstan,Peter or anyone if you understands and my reasoning please hijack rewrite it.

What the world can learn from China’s response to the coronavirus | Gary Liu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIh2-S2jXls

Artificial Intelligence at Heart of Alibaba Ecosystem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGcD8CTlDEc

Gary Liu: Running the South China Morning Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb5K83I33z8

Posted by: JC | Jul 13 2020 9:19 utc | 163

OK gonna to bed now please read and debates I'll add my comments or answer any questions later. Peter please watch the video and see if I'm right

Posted by: JC | Jul 13 2020 9:25 utc | 164

re Posted by: JC | Jul 12 2020 4:37 utc | 57

Surely you understood what I was saying & didn't allow yourself to be led astray by the ersatz marxist ding bat. If you did not let me make it clear as a human who heard it from the horses' mouth - a kiwi draftee who served in Malaya in the late 50's early 60's who was absolutely sickened by what they were told to do and ended up being imprisoned in 'the glasshouse' as a result. Yep, in the main it was englander australia & kiwis troop who committed the genocide upon ethnic chinese in Malaya, genocide done operating on the information given them by Malay villagers who wouldn't have known 'a commie' from a hole in the ground.
The informing was done by Bumiputera (indigenous malays) who had been told to be pissed off at ethnic chinese' supposed superiority at the capitalist game - now that is irony, except irony is usually funny & that is just horrifying.
The cause of this problem rests entirely with englander colonists who imported indentured labourers into Malaya from China and/or the Indian subcontinent, exactly the same problem that they caused in Fiji, Tanzania, Uganda - even in Hongkong; in that the indentured workers were led to believe that they were British, yet when the englanders had to go under the decolonisation deal made with FDR in WW2, the englanders flatly refused to give these Brits, brit passports, leaving a real mess behind.

The basic problem in many cases was caused by the reality that the indigenous populations had no need to work for the englanders - they had their traditional way of life which did not require cash. At first anyway - after the end when the englanders had left, the locals looked up and saw the people they considered to be 'blow ins' in a much better state vis a vis controlling the now capitalist economy than they were themselves.

The slaughter of Chinese in Malaysia may have been committed by the englanders & their puppets but it was committed at the behest of the new Malay political elite. The antipathy between Malay & ethnic Chinese eventually resulted in the separation of Singapore from the rest of Malaysia to create a fascist state where ethnic Chinese plus people whose forebears came from the Indian subcontinent dominated indigenous Malays. England encouraged that unjust separation.

Really this is not much different than what happened in Bali where Suharto cranked normally peaceful hindu Balinese to butcher 500.000 ethnic Chinese. I have asked older Balinese how this horror came to pass and they mostly hang their heads & say SFA. Sukarno is still immensly popular on Bali, there is a huge temple dedicated to him just before Ubud. Sokearno was much loved & respected because he preached the importance of all cultures in the archipelago.

Suherto and his Golkar party are entirely Javanese nationalist. When he was at the height of his power, every home I ever entered in Bali had a prominent picture of the creep displayed, yet the people loathed him. He and the java nationalist pols who supported him are amerikan bred fascists.

One balinese fella finally did tell me that even before Sukarno was deposed, there had been continual 'news' releases on the island (both papers & radio no TV) full of tales of 'Chinese' crimes and how it was that the reason Balinese were still poor was the fault of 'the chinese'.

Needless to say these media outlets were owned by senior Javanese military cum businessmen. Nowadays the place Bali most represents is 1960's Las Vegas, the island is controlled by a group of about 7 Javanese familieswho own everything and each family takes turns at being the Military Governor. Unlike most other regions there isn't one dominant Jakarta family in charge.
This model was designed by the CIA as way of getting control of Indonesia via their javanese subcontractors. They probably weren't worried about China back in the mid 60's but they were covering their bets. For a long period most foreign investment came from Japan, but amerika always kept a close eye on everything done in Indonesia which was & is considered to be a vital strategic region as well as an important resource source.

So once again the slaughter of ethnic chinese was a pretense of anticommunism & racism when in fact it was plain old amerikan greed.

When I was at Uni in Aotearoa I met a great many left leaning students from both Singapore & Malaysia - most of Singaporeans were ethnic Chinese yet both groups got along together very well & both groups believed it was the englanders plus Lee Kuan Yew who were at the root of the problems between Malaysia & Singapore.

Although the percentage of ethic Chinese in Malaysia continues to decrease the actual numbers have increased. This is due to the vast increase in numbers of bumiputra (a malay and bahasa word which translates as 'man of the land) It is a term of pride in Malay but in Indonesia/Bahasa it is widely regarded as an insult.By the time I finally visited Malaysia there were very few ethnic chinese rural communities any longer, most of the ethnic Chinese were concentrated around the Penang - Butterworth part of Malaysia. The Brits had driven them away or butchered the rural ethnic Chinese allegedly because they were resisting 'communism' but really because of a deal cut with nascent Malay elites.

Yet despite that the first time I visited Georgetown on the Malaysian Island of Penang it was like going in a time capsule back to colonial days to an old vintage colonial Chinatown - complete with opium dens now long gone. Even so Penang in general & Georgetown in particular was still an ethnic chinese settlement when I last visted in the early 90's.

None of this is simple 1 + 1= 2 stuff a multitude of different reasons inspired the butchery, but in both Malaysia & Indonesia I have witnessed the bullying and denigration of citizens deemed to be 'Chinese' Quite recently too. On a couple of occasions had I been asked, I would have seen the person copping this nonsense as being Malay or Indonesian, they certainly didn't have the physical characteristics whitefellas normally associate with Chinese.

I suppose that the bullies knew the victim's family because I didn't see or hear anything that would make the person different from other villagers.

Empire has always included divide & rule, the genocide in Malaya (as it was then) & later Indonesia had a powerful element of racism sown by the colonists and acted upon by the 'locals'.

Although there was an element of joking to it, there was that undercurrent of nastiness all racism has.

Posted by: A User | Jul 13 2020 10:23 utc | 165

Jen #114

Ageed onthe Joshua Oppenheimer film. It was beyond disappointing to being murder porn and evasive nonsense. My colleagues who had intimate experience condemned it. What was overlooked was the reality and so it was deception and propaganda.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 10:24 utc | 166

Unimportant news from Syria and Iraq (Google News links only to Israeli newspapers)

(Early on) Saturday, unidentified warplanes carried out an airstrike on a convoy that killed 35 pro-Iranian militiamen in the Deir ez-Zor province in eastern Syria, Turkey's Anadolu news agency reported.

(Afterwards, on the same day) A US military convoy was ambushed in southwestern Iraq on Saturday, as gunmen attacked and torched three large trucks carrying equipment and logistical materials for US forces in the country, according to London-based daily Al-Araby Al-Jadeed.

The trucks were traveling from Basra when they were targeted between Diwaniya and Samawah. Gunmen forced the drivers to exit the vehicles and then set the vehicles on fire, according to the report.

[Did the long hand of revenge reach San Diego? My wild speculation]

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 13 2020 10:54 utc | 167

Trump, Kushner and Netanyahu to be judged by a black woman in an international court.
Now that sounds like justice

For this trio that is the stuff of nightmares.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 11:09 utc | 168

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jul 13 2020 8:00 utc | 157 You seem to be slowly succumbing to Trump derangement syndrome.

Nope. TDS is strictly a Democratic ailment, characterized by beliefs tying Trump to Russian influence. I'm not susceptible to that.

"as if the democrats would do any better."

Never even remotely suggested that. I am hardly a Democrat or a Democrat supporter, as you'd know if you'd read any of my other posts.

"The last five or so presidents have been a disaster for the US and the world at large whether democrat or republican."

I'm quite aware of that, as you'd know if you'd read my other posts here going back years.

"really no worse than Clinton, Bush or Obama"

Ah, no, that isn't true. Clinton and Obama could speak (even if it was all lies). Even Bush could make a sentence. Trump can't do either.

"The health care system in the US was a mess long before Trump, and Fauci (Gates and the big pharma boys) has largely been responsible for the overt Covid policy."

I'm aware of past administration failings in health care. Fauci is not responsible for the utter failure of Trump's administration to ramp up to deal with the pandemic.

You begin to sound like a Trump supporter, just as you accused me of being a Democrat. There are no valid excuses for Trump - none.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 11:18 utc | 169

Christopher Steele a proven liar likely bankrupt after British judge awards damages to the bankers. SURPRISE the judge stands with the bank.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 11:30 utc | 170

Matthew Green @matthew_d_green 9h
The CDC has updated its current best estimate for COVID IFR from 0.26% up to 0.65%.
I guess after 0.26% of the entire population of New York City died of COVID, that didn’t seem like such a realistic estimate anymore. Someone should tell Ioannidis.

COVID-19 Pandemic Planning Scenarios

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 11:39 utc | 171

The Church paid out over $200 million in sexual abuse claims - and gets 7 times that much from the taxpayer.

AP: Catholic Church lobbied for taxpayer funds, got $1.4B

Hackers - rev your engines!


Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 13 2020 11:53 utc | 172

Situation and trends
There were 1.35 million road traffic deaths globally in 2016.

There were 1.35 million road traffic deaths globally in 2016, with millions more sustaining serious injuries and living with long-term adverse health consequences. Globally, road traffic crashes are a leading cause of death among young people, and the main cause of death among those aged 15–29 years. Road traffic injuries are currently estimated to be the eigth leading cause of death across all age groups globally, and are predicted to become the seventh leading cause of death by 2030.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 13 2020 12:11 utc | 173

Posted by: blues | Jul 12 2020 19:01 utc | 97

You are right dude the education drove us away from the man labour dignity.The disintegration and demotivation of the working class is one of the main objectives of capitalism.This happened everywhere in the west.The real wealth is produced by hand working,period.

Posted by: LuBa | Jul 13 2020 13:12 utc | 174

Fascinatingly convoluted defense of anti-communism from A particular User. Essentially , the noble image of anti-communism (another word for fascism) was apparently tarnished by its use to justify and describe the genocides in Indonesia and Malaysia, and I presume elsewhere like Latin America and southern Europe as well.

We are led to imagine that anti-communism (fascism) would be OK if it could be accomplished without racism. In fact, though, "You cannot have capitalism without racism" --Malcolm X.

Fascism is the blunt instrument that capitalism uses to smash working class organization (communism). Racism is the handle on the backs of subsets of the working class to break those subsets out of class consciousness. Blinded by an artificial "identity" manufactured for them by capitalist mass media, that amputated piece of the working class is then swung as a disposable cudgel against the rest of the working class.

Religion can give capitalists a handle on portions of the working class that can be used for this purpose, but usually that is not enough on its own. This is why racism remains a key to maintaining capitalism. Racism is thus an integral component of anti-communism.

Anti-communism is fascism. The terms are synonyms.

Anyone offering a defense of anti-communism by implying that it would be OK without the racism is at best a crypto-fascist.

Fortunately that particular User has the decency to no longer adorn itself with references to a great American Marxist in its screen name. Calling itself a user is far more appropriate.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 13 2020 13:40 utc | 175

It's now canonized in American public opinion, as the NYT has published an authorial article (in the pedantic upper middle class I-wanna-win-a-Pulitzer style) about it:

Fracking Firms Fail, Rewarding Executives and Raising Climate Fears

--//--

One more for the "telling a complete lie with half-truths" anthology:

Why China wants a Himalayan dispute with Bhutan

China's border dispute with Bhutan was never solved in the first place, how could it create it anew?

The author is using the reader's ignorance of History to paint the China-Buthan border dispute as a new fact, in order to link it to the India-China border dispute (which is also old issue). Well, of course they're related geographically - but not geopolitically: India's recent revival of the dispute has everything to do with the BRI; the Bhutan issue is the same as always was. That India is pressuring Bhutan to rekindle the border dispute is another problem altogether, as it would make an Indian aggression, not a Chinese one (thus making it in India's interests for a Himalayan dispute between China and Bhutan, not China's).

--//--

This is interesting:

US, Vietnam ties have never been better

The source the author used for the headline is this:

According to a Pew Research Center, a survey in 2015, 40 years after the end of the Vietnam War, found that 76% of Vietnamese had “favorable” views of the US, which was an even higher 89% among “more highly educated people.” It was one of the highest such percentages of any country included in the poll.

A lot happened in these last 5 years. Trump, recession, pandemic, depression etc. Why didn't the author use a more recent research and, if there isn't one, why publish such imprudent headline?

Regardless, the headline is fake news, as a pro-China faction just took power in the Vietnamese Communist Party.

But there are many, even more interesting information the author gives us:

Indeed, maybe the relationship’s greatest challenge will be how both sides avoid sensitive topics like human rights and democracy, says Derek Grossman, a senior defense analyst at the RAND Corporation, a Washington-based think tank.

So, "human rights" and "democracy" are just two pieces of shit that aren't worth the oxygen spent to spell them. Good to know.

And even then, Vietnam is already warned:

Not everyone in Washington is happy with how successive US administrations have ignored Vietnam’s abysmal human rights record. Representative Christopher Smith has noted that American diplomats “are so focused on the fact that Vietnam is not China that this oppressive police state is granted trade and security benefits without conditionality.”

The USA will never accept the existence of socialism. Not in its own territory, not everywhere else.

How is this "better than ever relations"?

About the economy:

Indeed, the future looks bright for Vietnam. Bilateral ties are set to move from strength to strength economically, with the US now Vietnam’s second-largest trading partner, trailing only neighboring China.

So, relations with the USA are "better than ever" because of their common enmity with China. However, China is Vietnam's largest trading partner. With enemies like that, who needs friends?

And Vietnam's growth rates are lower than China's. If Vietnam's future "looks bright", than why is the Western experts and MSM telling us daily China is collapsing and/or degenerating?

I'll finish with this information the author also reveals, that will break the hearts of the American conservative working class:

Trade has expanded massively from just over US$400 million in 1994 to US$77 billion last year. Even with the Covid-19 crisis, trade increased to $26 billion in the first five months of the year, up almost 8% from the same period last year.

Analysts believe that trade will increase in the coming years, thanks in no small part to American firms eyeing Vietnam as an ideal location to shift operations as Washington seeks to “decouple” supply chains away from China. Indeed, Vietnam was one of the few Asian countries to benefit from the US-China trade war due to the industrial exodus out of China.

All those manufacturing jobs... they are never coming back.

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2020 13:46 utc | 176

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 13 2020 12:11 utc | 172
(Road traffic fatalities are a significant contributor to premature death worldwide).

That won't change until motor cars are standardised and de-prettified to dissuade consumers from 'marrying' their vehicle as a projection of their personality and/or ego. Even Little Old Ladies have a deeply embedded mental image of "She and Her car" and the corresponding behavioural traits required to project that image - when their memory is jogged by a pet peeve.
Most people are lousy drivers. When they're not being inattentive and vague, they're being stupid and impulsive. Most governments profit from those shortcomings.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 13 2020 13:50 utc | 177

...
Anti-communism is fascism. The terms are synonyms.
...
Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 13 2020 13:40 utc | 174

Yep. It's that simple.
But apparently very easy to 'forget'.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 13 2020 13:59 utc | 178

Ah, now we finally get to the point:

Being 'offensive' in the digital era

Japan needs fight-style reform

So, it doesn't matter that all that fearmongering on China was bullshit. What matters is the message: we (the West) must preemptively destroy China either way; therefore the masses must be mobilized (cannon fodder is the soul of war, the same way the pawn is the soul of chess).

--//--

After 133% rally, SoftBank investors bet there’s more to come

This discussion is moot point because SoftBank is too big to fail, but, generally, when an MSM article puts such a bubble (oops, I mean, "rally") purely on the shoulders of the geniality of a CEO, you know it's a Ponzi scheme.

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2020 14:17 utc | 179

Uncle Tungsten @ 167
Possibly it is old age, but I distinctly remember that John Helmer, in the original post, included a balance sheet for Orbis (which I didn’t have time to look at) and he remarked that Orbis’s assets would appear not to cover the award plus costs. The word “bankrupt” I think crept in. Maybe it was in another post.
If - big if - Orbis is really a private company (wasn’t Pablo Miller somehow involved?) then that will of course be painful for Steele. If, as others have suggested, that it is a cut-out for the security services, then we the tax-payers will have to pick up the bill. Maybe we should ask NATO to pay? I really resent this new, unnecessary, manufactured Great Game which exists - as far as I or anyone else can see - only so these new Lawrences of Arabia can big themselves up.

Posted by: Montreal | Jul 13 2020 14:21 utc | 180

Craig Murray writes about the glorification of war:

The BBC World War Two Porn Page

Glorifying war is disturbing but so is the normalization of war.

Most do not realize that large standing armies and large police forces were unknown/unusual only a century ago.

And very few understand the mentality of the power-elite or how they have secreted themselves and their objectives behind gated communities, political divisiveness, and unaccountable 'national security' bullshit (more like 'war strategy'). The ideologies of the Empire are: neoConservativism (a form of aristocracy); neoLiberalism (a form of facism); and Zionism (a form of colonialism). In short, a combination of the worst inclinations in the Western tradition.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 13 2020 15:11 utc | 181

Washington has no easy cards left on Hong Kong: Global Times editorial

Hong Kong is still one of the most important places for financing as well as the source of the largest trade surplus for the US. As the US has so many interests in Hong Kong, how can it not be hurt if it targets Hong Kong?

Trade surpluses don't matter for your rulers, Americans. Don't delude yourselves with the "Donnie is laying 5-D chess" narrative.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1194421.shtml

The 20th Century already was a Century of Shame for the British Empire. Looks like its successors are aiming for another one.

China stocks rally, start-up index at over four-year high

This is the real reason why the Western markets are rallying again. Don't accept false narratives.

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2020 15:25 utc | 182

Ready to get your camelidae antibodies? I can't wait...
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53369103

Posted by: Mina | Jul 13 2020 16:08 utc | 183

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2020 14:17 utc | 179

"Japan needs fight-style reform"

More like Japan (and every country) needs to purge their pro-US political traitors.

Posted by: JW | Jul 13 2020 16:13 utc | 184

The Private Press Dragon
Just a few of many others but those listed are really good !!!

All you need is a TRANSLATION TOOL !!

China is a highly complex country, multi-layered and such diverse in pretty much everything.
(One simple example: in Beijing alone more than 70 different local dialects of Mandarin are spoken.)

Just to read GT or CPD to get a more wholesome 'picture' -- far from Westen > especially American anti-China-bashing & mostly lying propaganda -- isn't simply enough.
So take notice and spent al little time 'over there' . . .
Absolutely -- interesting & informative.

观察者网-中国关怀 全球视野
The Observer Network
https://www.guancha.cn/

界面新闻-只服务于独立思考的人群-
Interface Morning News
https://www.jiemian.com/

澎湃新闻-专注时政与思想-
The Paper
https://www.thepaper.cn/

搜狐新闻-搜狐
Sohu Views
https://www.sohu.com/

Posted by: Ashino | Jul 13 2020 16:34 utc | 185

China is diverse? Get out of my face with that bullshit. Ask the Uyghurs about China's incredible diversification program and how supportive China is about their homeland the imperialist Mao decided to annex. They're pleased as pie about it and couldn't be happier. China is, in my opinion, the most racist industrialized nation in the world. America has white privilege, and China has Han privilege. Wendell Brown is in jail because the Han Chinese are racist, cowardly, cheating pricks.

Posted by: 450.org | Jul 13 2020 16:50 utc | 186

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/02/coronavirus-kansas-prison-lansing-correctional/

PRISON OFFICIALS IN KANSAS IGNORED THE PANDEMIC. THEN PEOPLE STARTED DYING.

By the end of May, both Austin and Wright had indeed tested positive — as had nearly 900 others of the prison’s 1,700 inmates. Four incarcerated men and two staff members had died, and the prison had become the 14th largest cluster of coronavirus cases in the country and the largest in Kansas.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/gates-foundation-subversion-public-health-policy-india/5718296

Covid-19, Hunger and Starvation in India. Globalist Takeover of India’s Public Health Policy

Posted by: Ashino | Jul 13 2020 16:50 utc | 187

Possible use of NATO aircraft to traffic Afghan drugs needs to be investigated — Lavrov

The Russian Federation is finally accepting the Soviet version of the events in Afghanistan (which are probably true, given the overwhelming evidence for these kind of events) - after 30 years of boot-licking and self-humiliating to the West.

Posted by: vk | Jul 13 2020 16:59 utc | 188

from where I am .. it has not been possible to contact or ping duckduckgo.com <=my favorite search engine.. I find on searching the net, without search engines that several people have said the Indianian government shut down DuckDuckgo.com on July one for a few days. This morning I pinged the long time ip address of duckduckgo,com as often i do, not only was there no reply, there was not even an IP Address number which is usually returned with even when the website is down for a short while. DNS reports nothing, just nothing. Last night before no ping happened.
I was complaining to all of the browser customer complaint people because each time, for the last few days, I made entry into the browser to bring up the content inserted to be searched for in Duckduckgo.com and my content after being inserted was cleared when I hit return to the search window. Disappeared search request entries (content) seemed to produce html.https://duckduckgo.com/html because it appeared in the url window of the browser, and what looked to be a duckduckgo.com web search page presented on screen for a second try entry, so you re-enter the search request content into the search window space, and presto you get what appears to be duckduckgo returning the results of the search, but on inspection the certificate for Duckduckgo
which i believe to be 35:C8:7B:6A:E6:5E:22:FB:4D:71:CA:E1:EF:ED:4D:B4:63:46:80:D6 cannot be confirmed. one browser just says certificate ok, the others at least allow to get a number, which is not the same.

What is=> html.https://duckduckgo.com/html/ <=how does it work, <= why is it everywhere all at once. in most popular browsers.. i have tried a few browsers in the past few days.

some say the situation is Chrome related? but no one has explained to me why doing as always i have done i can neither ping https://duckduckgo.com at the dot com name, nor ping its ip address, not can i believe that a non pingable website can be found by my browser. from the same computer that cannot establish by ping contract with the duckduckgo website. The browsers i tried, presented on my screen something that looks like duckduckgo.com search page, but the search pages presented do not authentic https://duckduckgo.com that is, the certificate numbers do not match.

Posted by: snake | Jul 13 2020 18:22 utc | 189

Global Times Editorial citing new evaluation of Outlaw US Empire's inability to harm China over Hong Kong:

"Chinese society has generally formed three consensuses on China-US relations:

"First, China should avoid proactively provoking the US, and maintain stable China-US relations. We should not intensify China-US confrontations from our side or initiate a new cold war.

"Second, China should stick to the bottom line of national interests, and not be afraid of US suppression, and bear the inevitable risks and costs.

"Third, China should prepare for long-term China-US competition, and keep increasing its national strength and endurance against long-term external challenges.

"The US has been suppressing China, which it views as a strategic competitor for more than two years, while China has remained steady in all aspects. The novel coronavirus epidemic is another test for China's strategic endurance, from which it deserves a grade of distinction.

"One more or less card on Hong Kong will not pose any threat to the Chinese side. The US will suffer losses more or less with China together.

"The biggest problem for the US is that it has lost its ability to evaluate China and assess the situation of China-US competition based on facts. It is overly ambitious and self-worshiping." [My Emphasis]

The "self-worshiping" point is excellent, which complements the unmentioned lack of leadership. Many will recall back in April/May the prognostication that COVID-19 would wilt--melt away--during the heat of Summer, but the exact opposite's been the case as many here predicted. All the projection being done by Outlaw US Empire officials has boomeranged with only a few states able to say they have the virus under control.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 13 2020 18:25 utc | 190

The Sunni oil boom and local mendacity is cringing in fear.

Saudi tears

One wonders how soon the USA will exercise its RTP mania and fully invade Yemen. They have landed small parties in Aden and, given the Houthi advance, that city will soon be under siege.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 22:10 utc | 191

William Gruff #175 Thank you - pointy and well crafted. Anti communism is one dimensional ignorance as well.


vk #176 Thank you for that tear down on the Vietnam story. Pew Research is phoney baloney at the best of times.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 22:21 utc | 192

Our state owned news organisation that is supposed to be independent in news has been dutifully swamping its pages with anti China propaganda, but not long back, its offices were raided by the police due to a bit of investigative journalism into AU forces in Afghanistan. The raid seems to have pissed them off a bit so now another piece on Afghanistan plus a piece on the Whitlam coup.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-14/australian-special-forces-killed-unarmed-civilians-in-kandahar/12441974

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-14/palace-letters-to-be-released-what-queen-knew-whitlam-dismissal/12451212?nw=0

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 13 2020 22:26 utc | 193

karlof1 #190

The USA seems to have appointed MAGA warriors and three letter goons as embassy staff everywhere for the past two decades (at least). They have almost lost the ability to analyse everything 'foreign'. Fortunately they get 'good advice' from The Institute for Statecraft.

See covid analytical capacity at home let alone anything abroad.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 13 2020 22:27 utc | 194

Writing a new installment for my Critical Mass serial, I'm focusing on the Duties of Citizens since I already detailed the Social Contract. Last year I supplied the evidence that Naturalized Citizens are likely to know more about the workings of the Outlaw US Empire and their duties as citizens than those Native-born. While researching, I discovered many millions of people at all levels of government must swear an oath along the lines of that of a soldier--to defend the US Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. So, if that's the case, why is there so much ongoing corruption and law breaking from enemies that are clearly domestic? Are those millions conscious traitors to their oaths and thus their country, or is there some way by which they can claim ignorance to what's happening in front of their noses? Is the Outlaw US Empire filled with millions of cowards and traitors? Is that the real reason why the place is so fucked-up?!? Do those millions have no conception about what an oath entails/obligates? Maybe they think its akin to the Marriage Oath--that fidelity, honesty, and honor no longer matter. I'll bet the US National Debt that the citizenship oath uttered by a Russian or Chinese will be taken seriously and honored. Is it that difference in personal quality that makes Americans Exceptional? Given what's displayed via behavior, that seems to be correct.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 14 2020 0:14 utc | 195

Jack Rasmus has a good article at Counterpunch today

This is how it concludes:
"...The US is currently experiencing what might be called a ‘triple crisis’. A health crisis that shows little sign of abating. A deep economic crisis that is still in its early phases. And a ripening political crisis. Never before in its history have three such major events converged. The one of the three that is potentially most manageable is the economic. Health crisis depends heavily on the development of a vaccine. Not much can be done to prevent a deepening political crisis. It will run its course, whatever that may be. But a government fiscal stimulus equivalent to about 40% of US GDP would very likely stabilize the economy and set it on a path to sustained recovery. However, it is highly unlikely that in the current political climate of instability, deep splits within the US political elites, growing grass roots social confrontations, and failure to mount an effective strategy to address the Covid-19 health crisis that the capitalists and their political representatives will be capable of introducing the necessary 40% war time economic stimulus."
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/07/13/why-the-3rd-quarter-us-economic-rebound-will-falter/

Posted by: bevin | Jul 14 2020 1:15 utc | 196

re : William Gruff | Jul 13 2020 13:40 utc | 175 who spewed this nonsense:

Fascinatingly convoluted defense of anti-communism from A particular User. Essentially , the noble image of anti-communism (another word for fascism) was apparently tarnished by its use to justify and describe the genocides in Indonesia and Malaysia, and I presume elsewhere like Latin America and southern Europe as well.
I cannot tell if gruff is just thick, being obtuse or most likely is just another boring egoist determined to 'win' a point.

At no stage have I ever defended the racist antichinese genocide by some SE asian nations which pose as anti-communist policies. In fact if anyone can be bothered going back far enough they will find that I first drew attention to amerikans on this board who were unware of these genocides well before that "act of killing" movie was released in 2012.
In fact with his attempt to shut down debate on this with sly distractions & deceptions, Gruff sounds like a typical neolib whining about people discussing a subject that he has deemed verboten.

The ridiculous assertion that I support the killings because they are 'anti-communist' fails the sniff test as the killings were not actually inspired by anti-communism although that is the claim. The killings were a typical use of racism by an elite to gain control of economic assets. Both the englanders in malaya and the dutch in Indonesia imported workers (slaves really) from China mainly but the brits also imported some slaves from the Indian sub-continent to do the tasks they didn't want to do themselves and couldn't get the locals who had a balanced lifestyle at the beginning of the imperial occupation so saw no need to work for sweaty red faced euros, to do.

These imports who had a much better handle on trading than the locals quickly came to dominate the merchant & servics space in the local economy.. When the englanders split from malaya the indigenous ruling class believed that the only way to satisfy their greed was to get rid of the Chinese.Indians particularly Chinese.

China had a revolution and Mao a particular hero of mine was remaking China to the horror of elites around the globe. In malaya that elite decided to kill two birds with one stone by convincing the englanders that the 'red' problem was the fault of chinese when in fact many of the leaders of Malay socialism were committed nationalist bumiputra. The brits leant on Oz & Aotearoa to also supply troops - this was just after the end of the korean conflict and leadership in both those nations was old school conservative, whose public service was heavily infiltated with monarchist englander arse kissers & warmongers already on a war footing.
I was a pre-teen when my sister came home from her best friend's home all upset in that dramatic way teenage girls go for, because her mate's older sister was engaged to a chap who had been conscripted (conscription in Aotearoa had just continued after ww2 as it did in many places), and he was sent to Malaya after a short recruit training indoctrination and saw what we, Oz & england were actually up to in Malaya.

That was going into Chinese villages on the word of an informant, and killing everyone -men, women & children in it. Apparently he didn't understand that this is the basis of all imperial counter-insurgency work. Check the pentagon papers & you'll see that amerika based a lot of what it initially got up to in vietnam on the englander 'counter insurgency' in malaya.

Anyway this girl down the road from us hadn't heard from her bloke for a while & hassled the kiwi army about where he was, so they told him to write to her from military prison. He was pretty screwed up, part-ashamed of being a convict, part angry at what was going on. This wasn't an isolated case and caused the still conservative kiwi government who insisted on keeping conscription going, to only send volunteers to Vietnam (that was not the case in ww2, korea or malaya)- lest there be another scandal. Consequently Aotearoa's donation to killing vietnamese was tiny - one artillery battery or some such.

I realise repeating yet again that I do not now nor ever have supported the genocide of chinese in Malaya, Indonesia or anywhere else will not prevent the asinine gruff from spouting his facile remarks.

He is upset because he has been found out, a hypocrite who supports the right to kill over property yet he claims to be some sort of marxist you know those of us who believe property is theft.

I have no doubt he will continue to spew his childishness because he has no where else to go - he cannot deny he said what he said, all he can hope for is the support of others who like him who have spent their lives grabbing whatever they can who now in old age have thrown up a flimsy facade of 'socialism' because they are curmudgeons who like the sound of their own voice, so they shout down family gatherings and the like by being 'controversial'.
This board has suffered a number of these low life failed wanna-bes over the years and no doubt will suffer many more. All in the name of that non-existent distraction 'free speech' Imagine if the slave owning amerikan founding fathers had stuck the right for something real & measurable such as the right for all amerikans to have food, housing or healthcare into their warped in favour of the wealthy, constitution.

But no, they divert fools like gruff with nonsense about guns and the right to deceive.

Posted by: A User | Jul 14 2020 1:36 utc | 197

"Four years after India and Iran signed an agreement to construct a rail line from Chabahar port to Zahedan, along the border with Afghanistan, the Iranian government has decided to proceed with the construction on its own, citing delays from the Indian side in funding and starting the project."

"The development comes as China finalises a massive 25-year, $400 billion strategic partnership deal with Iran, which could cloud India’s plans."

https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/us-rejects-chinas-claims-in-south-china-sea/article32073839.ece

Are the Ayatollahs teaming up with the CCP?

Posted by: Antonym | Jul 14 2020 2:12 utc | 198

@196 bevin

Many, many thanks for that superb analysis by Jack Rasmus that you link to. It's a good 30-minute read, and it bears careful attention, but Rasmus is a great economic and socio-political writer and his very readable articles are always worth spending time with.

His analysis comprises more nuts and bolts than I had even considered as part of the current situation in the US. It shows what money has been thrown where, and how much (and how little) of it has been accepted or committed to the economy (with so many entities already flush with cash - except the labor force).

Trying to summarize it here is more difficult than I can attempt now, but I want to recommend it to readers as a great reference for this mid-year pivot as the US so far is failing utterly to stave off the Depression that looms.

And how to defeat this looming prospect? The Rasmus article runs the numbers from the 1930's and the 2009's and provides the percentages to see where we stand currently, and where we should go:

In other words, the lesson of the Great Depression of the 1930s is in order to end a depression, or stop a Great Recession from becoming a Depression, the government must step in and spend at a rate of 40% GDP.

[...]

The point is: if 5.5% was insufficient to generate sustained recovery in 2009, today in 2020 the effective 5.5% fiscal spending produced by the CARES ACT in March 2020 will prove even less successful. The US economy’s economic collapse today is five times deeper than in 2008-09 and has occurred in one-fifth the time of the 2008-09 event. If a second more aggressive government spending program does not follow in the second half of 2020, then the current tepid economic ‘rebound’ underway due to the reopening of the US economy will certainly fail at generating a sustained recovery.

[...]

On paper, the roughly $2.3 trillion CARES ACT amounted to roughly 11% of GDP. But only half of that 11%–or just 5.5—has actually hit the US economy. This contrasts with Germany and other European and Asian countries that boosted fiscal spending stimulus by as much as 15%-20%.

The 5.5% is not enough to kick start the rebound into a sustained recovery. Much of the 5.5% is already spent to mitigate the 2nd quarter deep contraction and is no longer available as a stimulus in the upcoming 3rd quarter.

bevin's quote also applies of course, that this economic crisis is but one of three crises. Again, I highly recommend this article as a map for those trying to navigate through the difficult waters of the current US economy:
Why the 3rd Quarter US Economic ‘Rebound’ Will Falter

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 14 2020 4:01 utc | 199

Grieved @Jul14 4:01 #199

... in order to end a depression, or stop a Great Recession from becoming a Depression, the government must step in and spend at a rate of 40% GDP.

Or start a war.

Why is the potential for war not on anyone's radar?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 14 2020 4:26 utc | 200

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