Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 11, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-55

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

The School of Medicine of the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) has posted a series of videos in which Department Chair Bob Wachter and various medical specialist discuss specific aspects of the Covid-19 epidemic. Yesterday's grand round was about The State of the Pandemic, Opening the Schools, and the Outbreak at San Quentin State Prison. Top first hand knowledge without politics.

This will probably have foreign policy consequences: Dozens of US Marines in Japan's Okinawa get coronavirus - Yahoo

[I am off for a family day.]

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on July 11, 2020 at 16:35 UTC | Permalink

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"Few liberals had any doubts that Tsarist Russia’s troubles were the government’s fault. Revolutionary violence was a symptom not a cause. Eliminate the cause and the symptom would vanish also. What had to be condemned, therefore, was not the violence of the mob, but the violence of the state .. In 1917, the liberals got their wish. The hated autocracy was overthrown. The ‘terror from above’ ceased. Civil liberties were granted. The prisons were emptied. The gendarmerie and other repressive organs of the state were abolished. And did the ‘terror campaign from below’ come to an end? No, not a bit – once the constraints were relaxed, the revolutionaries proved to have a will of their own, and rather than giving up and going home pressed forever onward. At that point, many liberals suddenly changed direction but it was too late. Law and order, once hated and undermined, proved impossible to restore when its value became obvious, and the liberals and all they cherished were swept away, as Trotsky said, into the ‘dustbin of history’."


Posted by: moe | Jul 11 2020 17:31 utc | 1

The yanks mercenaries will be spreading the bug everywhere.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 11 2020 17:44 utc | 2

thanks b... the video at 59 minutes onward on san quentin and etc gives a good overview... like you say - top first hand knowledge without politics...

@ moe... i like peter robinsons site and visit it from time to time..

@ peter - the japanese seem pretty concerned about that too..

Posted by: james | Jul 11 2020 17:58 utc | 3

Upshot of the 'State of the Pandemic' video:

  • USA's "re-opening" has been a disaster

    Aside: those who proposed that the virus would disappear in summer like the common cold have been proven to be wrong (as had already been clear by examples of the virus being spread in warmer climates);

  • younger children are not very susceptible and don't pass on the virus. Teenagers are more of a risk. But adult-to-adult transmission in schools is the main concern (just like any workplace).
  • prisoners in USA are getting hit hard as prisons were slow to take appropriate measures.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 11 2020 18:39 utc | 4

Biden's "Build Back Better." The 3-Bs! MWAHAHAHA

Biden: Building a Better Back, for you!

So Biden plans to have favored vendors and spend half a billion buying GMs, huh?


Why can't these fuckers just come out and say it? Just don't buy Chinese goods. Go on the radio and do a press conference after press conference stating to the people, "we are not going to keep trying to corral China in an effort to control their trade routes in the eastern hemisphere. But, if y'all could just do your part and not buy Chinese goods, we can decouple without the threat of open conflict."

Seems like a much more favorable thing to do than keep feeding the MIC, globalist beast.

But maybe we need to get our ducks in a row and I am being impatient. To gradually close supply lines and product trading between the two countries might be less disruptive in the short term. It will appear doable as the alternative, the all-at-once, approach might seem to hurt a little quicker and a little deeper.

So I guess I need to be patient with the lubed-approach by POTUS.

In the mean time, I think everyone in here can agree upon that countries should always prioritize manufacturing and procurement in their own country with their own workers. It is fundamentally a pro-union, pro-pitchfork, and pro labor approach.

Of course, vk, seeking to install the CCP as the sole-supplier of global goods to every corner of the world, will argue the other. But it is not for me to point out what they are truly getting at with their claptrap about America not being able to manufacture its own sneakers. In his mind and in what he would have you believe, when we stop buying Chinese Nikes, we will have to go barefoot.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 11 2020 18:58 utc | 5

"... The hated autocracy was overthrown. The ‘terror from above’ ceased. Civil liberties were granted. The prisons were emptied. The gendarmerie and other repressive organs of the state were abolished. And did the ‘terror campaign from below’ come to an end?.." moe@1

This account bears no relation to the actual history of 1917, a year in which Russia was in a war which the Lvov/Kerensky governments insisted on pursuing with renewed force. Far from abolishing the state's repressive organs they were re-purposed to intensify the war effort and to maintain an alliance in which Russians were subordinate to western banks.
The revolutionaries did not maintain their pressure against the state for fun- they were themselves the subjects of repression from the new authorities- but in order to bring the "Bread Peace and Land" demanded by the masses.
And then, after the October Revolution, these revolutionaries were the subjects of attack from all, exterior, sides. In total 21 foreign governments sent military expeditions to smash the Bolshevik led government.

To put it very simply your account is a nonsense: far from being innocents the liberals in Russia, committed to the preservation of their wealth and the disfranchisement of the workers and peasants, and intent on flinging further armies into the meat grinder of their own western front, were the problem. When they betrayed their fellow countrymen by allying themselves with foreign invaders they became an enemy to be fought.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 11 2020 19:23 utc | 6

@ Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 11 2020 18:58 utc | 5

The Americans can stop buying Chinese products. But that would be the immediate end of the Dollar Standard. American would be eating dirt the next day.

Capitalism doesn't depend on the welfare of the people to survive and prosper. The USA is more capitalist than ever.


@ Posted by: moe | Jul 11 2020 17:31 utc | 1

Yeah... no.

That didn't happen.

The fist thing the February government did when it took power was to try to reinstate Nicholas II to the throne. The only reason that didn't happen was because Nicholas II himself refused (!!!). Of course, with hindsight, we know he signed his (and his family's) death certificate when he did that, but at the time it was not obvious at all. Regardless, this was the first betrayal of the February Revolution to its own people.

The second thing the February government did was to return to WWI. This was the second and final betrayal of the February Revolution to its own people, and this they didn't let pass. At the time, Germany was well in control of the Eastern Front, chances of victory was zero and returning to WWI essentially meant the Russian Government was willing to sacrifice its own people for the welfare of the Western powers' hegemony ("take one for the team"). It meant a death sentence to every Russian male peasant. No need to say that the February government, in fact, signed its own death sentence.

After the WWI betrayal, the February government was essentially over. Some riots at June of the same year were just the warming up for the masses. The Bolsheviks then transformed the enraged masses into a formidable revolutionary force, which would result into the birth a future world superpower (post-1945 USSR).

Posted by: vk | Jul 11 2020 19:49 utc | 7

I did support Paul Robinson's Irrussianality blog when it first started but after reading several of his posts, I realised that despite his background as an academic and military historian, and his interest in Russian history, Robinson is no great thinker or analyst. For all their faults and flaws, Bevin @ 6 and VK @ 7 easily run rings around him on a topic he should know like the back of his hand.

Posted by: Jen | Jul 11 2020 20:57 utc | 8

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 11 2020 18:58 utc | 5

"But, if y'all could just do your part and not buy Chinese goods ..."

That was already tried in the 1970s. The "Look for the Union Label" song about clothing is still stuck in my head. Regardless of want people say price eventually beats patriotism.

Posted by: One Too Many | Jul 11 2020 21:00 utc | 9

Yep that's one solution. Boycott, disinvest, sanction. BDS. Maybe sabotage. That is the standard USA solution. We can use that weapon too.

There is no need for a MIC for design and deployment.

The USA presence in most pars of the world is a belligerent nuisance. Now it is a threat.
This is a clown cart on its way to a ditch.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 11 2020 21:07 utc | 10

Not surprised to hear that US marines in Okinawa are comimg down with COVID-19 or that a US soldier in Darwin has tested positive - US naval ships with their crews numbering in the several hundreds (and in the case of large nuclear-powered warships, a few thousands) living and working in cramped conditions, and often under poorly trained officers and lax levels of supervision and discipline, as evidenced by reports of collisions between US warships and oil tankers resulting in loss of lives in the last few years, are sitting ducks for major disease outbreaks. Sailors from ships docking at overseas US bases are likely to pass the disease on to people already stationed there.

Canberra should be regretting its decision to allow US bases to be established on Australian soil even though the decision was made by former idiot PM Julia Gillard.

Posted by: Jen | Jul 11 2020 21:17 utc | 11

Will US military bases be quarantined by their occupied, er, I mean "host" countries?

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 11 2020 21:20 utc | 12

Thanks moe #1

The revolutionaries were absolutely correct to press on to their total victory or end up stll enslaved and in gaol as prisoners of the 'liberals' and the money power of the remaining wealthy class. Dont have any illusion the the 'police' or the 'liberals' or the 'ruling class' in the USA are in exactly the same position.

If there were a revolution in the USA or anywhere, the revolutionaries would be most wise to learn from both the Russian and Chinese success. Half a revolution equals full capitulation. One does not haggle with dogs.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 11 2020 21:23 utc | 13

Jen #11
Thank you. The bunya nut republic sold out its future for zac. SAD.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 11 2020 21:28 utc | 14

@9 One Too Many

Yes, Gruff has educated me about pro-union movements and the COOL law (Country of Origin Labeling).

However, nary a peep in the last three decades and any kind of political action concerning pro-domestic labor is muzzled the same way BDS is by our reps and msm.

We are in the tear down plight (blight?) of neoliberalism. There is a growing anti-globalist movement forming and you can hear it in the lexicon. IMO we need a generational awakening to sound domestic economic policy which does not entail allowing your national elites to exploit globalism's inequities.

It is hard to argue that America is not a failing power domestically and has been for the past three decades.

Like an addict, we are going to have to crawl back into the light but it will be worth it. And I don't care what anyone says, the path forward is to stop buying Chinese products.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 11 2020 21:34 utc | 15

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 11 2020 18:58 utc | 5
Posted by: One Too Many | Jul 11 2020 21:00 utc | 9

Eat your heart out. Chinese still make the best and cheapest... Yea the Chinese never invent anything, they cheat, they steal and lied...

Damn it how could Huawei cheats, steal and lied when freaking American dun has any shits on 5G... even Samsung, Nokia, Cisco and Ericsson need Huawei many ten of thousands patents. Huawei collected 1.8billions royalty in 2018. If you dun want to buy A Nike sneakers or whatever - made in China, buy one made in Vietnam still another commie country. Please walk bare feet, better still crawl on you feet and hands like an animal... America not like the country I once knew, but turning to become an animal...

It's not whether made in China, Korea or America... It's damn freaking racist Trump and Biden raciest Americans.

Posted by: JC | Jul 11 2020 21:39 utc | 16

@ 8 jen... thanks for your take on that and bevin and vks too!

@ nemesis calling... about biden coming out and saying - "Just don't buy Chinese goods." how would that go over with the ceo of walmart? as many have said before, the horse left the barn a long time ago and you want to put it back in?? trump can fake posture all he wants... now you want biden to fake posture?? i think you'd get quicker results starting an alternative party in the usa..

Posted by: james | Jul 11 2020 21:49 utc | 17

Re: covid, FL, demographics.

Decided to do a daily demographic snapshot, by subtracting tottals from previous day.

State data here []

age group ... new cases between 7/10 to 7/11
15-24 ... 1570
25-34 ... 2036
35-44 ... 1679
45-54 ... 1670
55-64 ... 1309
65-74 ... 713
75-84 ... 412
85+ ... 200

over 1100 new cases this day in what I would call the high risk range of 65+

Posted by: ptb | Jul 11 2020 21:51 utc | 18

Jen 11

I guess one is a good number for propaganda purposes but coronavirus will be spreading through the US military the same as it is spreading through their civilian population. They need to be considered the same as plague carrying rodents.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 11 2020 21:51 utc | 19

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 11 2020 21:34 utc | 15

"the path forward is to stop buying Chinese products.'

Have your tried Huawei handset? Try one see the superior construction... it superb... I bought a Huawei Honor View V20 Dual-SIM 256GB ROM/8GB RAM, GSM Only, No CDMA Factory Unlocked 4G/LTE Smartphone - International Version. Ebay paid $350 plus free shipping, took a week from Shenzhen China.. A similar Samsung will cost more than $700!!

Like an an Idiot (addict), you (we are) going to have to crawl back into the shit hole (light) but it will be worth it. And I don't care what anyone says, the path backward (forward) is to stop buying Chinese products.

Posted by: JC | Jul 11 2020 21:57 utc | 20

COVID-19 Party Proves Fatal:

"A man in the US city of San Antonio, Texas, has died from coronavirus after he tried to prove that the disease was a hoax, a local news website reported. The man, said to be in his 30s, attended a so-called 'COVID party', which in some cases have been organized in order to become infected with the disease so that after one is cured of it, one doesn’t have to stay at home. However, in other cases, these parties have been organized in order to see if anyone gets infected, as there are many people worldwide who still believe the virus is a hoax."

There are several millions just like this poor sap who was most likely a Trump voter killed off by Trump's Treason. And I'd bet this death isn't the first to come from such an event.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 11 2020 21:58 utc | 21

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 11 2020 21:58 utc | 21

"A man in the US city of San Antonio, Texas, has died from coronavirus after he tried to prove that the disease was a hoax"

Good for him at least he died trying and he'll go to heaven, meet Trump when his time comes... I respect that man more now than when he was alive.

Posted by: JC | Jul 11 2020 22:05 utc | 22

Latest on Mainland-Taiwan-Outlaw US Empire stresses:

"We believe that the mainland, the US and Taiwan do not want the Taiwan Straits situation to spark because it benefits nobody. But China-US relations are tense and Taiwan island is hijacked by the Tsai Ing-wen authority's radical policies. The mainland almost has no mutual trust with the US or Taiwan, and all sides are showing their determination to respond to the worst situation. The risk of military conflicts in the Taiwan Straits is the highest in decades. Once the first shot is fired, there is very likely to be large-scale military conflicts caused by strategic misjudgment.

"Here we warn the US and Taiwan: Do not play with fire in the Taiwan Straits. Once a war breaks out in the region, the mainland will be determined to defend national sovereignty at all costs. Such determination from the mainland overwhelms US attempts to benefit from the situation and Taiwan dissidents' will to seek so-called independence. No one wants a war, but compared to the US and Taiwan, the mainland is less afraid to fight in the region." [My Emphasis]

Eventually, Taiwan will return to the Mainland. The only question that matters is peacefully or via war. There's no way the Outlaw US Empire can prevent that from happening without destroying itself, a fact China is well aware of. How much longer will the clock tick?

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 11 2020 22:15 utc | 23

JC @22--

Very few Texans go to heaven given the criteria for entry.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 11 2020 22:17 utc | 24

In regard to the MoA post, The Pandemic Reveals The Real Disease Of Our Societies, I previously commented that I thought the map posted by b in this article was also likely to correspond to obesity in the US.

Please take a look at this map of U.S. Obesity Rates at the County Level It is almost identical to the map posted by b.

Posted by: Perimetr | Jul 11 2020 22:17 utc | 25

@20 jc

You must be an Asian because only you golks over there obsess amount how sleek your technology is. Over here Asians are similarly suoer impressed with import street racers. Neato spoiler, dude!

But us Americans built the A-bomb first, pal!

Yeah, you know that sleek Manhattan project device? It was awesome.


As if the sophistication of your microchipping and hand held device technology matters in the spiritual health of your country.

Just like when vk points to GDP as being the end-all indicator of a nation's health. I guess it is when your entire worldview is wrapped up in production, it would be.



Fuck Walmart. It will die soon.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 11 2020 22:29 utc | 26

Ooops...bad typo...meant "folks" not "golks."

Damn smartphone. Shoulda got a Chinese one.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 11 2020 22:41 utc | 27

JC #22

Good for him at least he died trying and he'll go to heaven, meet Trump when his time comes... I respect that man more now than when he was alive.

Imagine his surprise when he meets Netanyahoo at the pearly gate and sees the sign 'under new management'.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 11 2020 22:42 utc | 28

"The First NATO": A review of the destruction attempted and achieved by the French & British Imperial alliance during the 19th century. It appears I need to learn more about "Robert Gascoigne-Cecil, later Lord Salisbury, the guiding genius of British foreign policy from the mid-1860s all the way to his retirement in 1902."

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 11 2020 22:43 utc | 29

NemesisCalling #26

China and Russia raised their masses OUT of poverty and ill health.

The USA condemns their masses TO poverty and ill health.

Communism is a proposal to create an egalitarian society with a fair distribution of means and recognises the value of every individual and their potential as a contributer to the good of all. That is the basis of its investment philosophy.

The capitalism in the USA and mostly elsewhere has no such respect for humanity.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 11 2020 22:48 utc | 30

@30 Uncle

If that's what you think I need to hear, then it is obvious that much of what I write here is mostly in vain. Although I do enjoy reading and honing my own writing, so there's that.

I like your tone and delivery Uncle and you have been mostly fair and well mannered in your responses to me. Much appreciated.

Is there still room at this bar for a guy like me?

Beginning to think no.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 11 2020 23:05 utc | 31

Idiot. I am a proud and humble overseas born Chinese (OBC) and NOT ABC (American Born Chinese). I'm a human just like you or any human. Unlike you, you are a racist "Asian because only you golks over there". I had been called Gook, slant eyes’ bastard before and people even avoided me covering their mouth and noses when I first came to this beautiful American.

To educate an idiot like you, Tsien Hsue-shen co-founder of Jet Propulsion Lab and he joined Theodore von Karman's group at Caltech. During WWII, he was involved in the Manhattan Project together other German scientists earlier and captured during WW2.. Qian Xuesen was accused being commie. He returned to China given the title father of China Rocketry. If you check UC Berkeley and UCLA more than 40% or more students’ populations are Asians... Asian mean, Indians, Taiwanese, Korea, Japanese. Vietnamese, Singaporeans, Malaysians, Thailand and mainland Chinese.

Recent completed BeiDou Navigation Satellite System (BDS) independently constructed and operated by China with the needs national security and economic and social development, pointed to Tsien Hsue-shen earlier work in space projects...

One more.... did you know the first Boeing engineer in Washington State was a Chinese?

Posted by: JC | Jul 11 2020 23:50 utc | 32

@ 26 nemesis calling... walmart is only a sign of a much deeper set up the usa and canada have going... i feel the same way as you, although i am not as naive as to think the cheap political trick of saying no to china is anything other then a cheap trick - what i call political posturing.... for it to really matter a number of dynamics need to change, not the least that the west needs to get involved in manufacturing again! it ain't happening... everyone is going cheap and that means going to china for all their needs... it is happening on all levels, not the least - technology... you think there might be a reason apple corp gets everything from asia?? profit margins.... stop buying apple... that will be one of your first steps to stop supporting china, lol... good luck with it all, but mostly all i see is cheap talk from cheap politicians.. we don't need more of that!

Posted by: james | Jul 12 2020 0:06 utc | 33

NemesisCalling @31: "...much of what I write here is mostly in vain."

Well, yes, very true. You exemplify the worst of American psychosis and "exceptionalism". Despite your words, you can sense that the empire (America) is losing its hegemony, so you threaten the use of nukes against a people who have never really threatened you. You see that they are rising above you through nothing more than their own hard work and determination, and that is the threat that your perceive.

Yeah, you (well, not you personally as you don't have sufficient intelligence, but people in your country) developed the nuke. It really isn't that big of a development as many others have also independently developed the necessary tech, but your country did develop it first by a few months. What is most important is that you used it as a weapon of mass destruction against civilian targets.

Your ability to create powerful weapons of mass destruction is not what is scary. Your willingness to use those weapons outside of all norms of civilized behavior is what is scary. That is why I know you would have no qualms against using a biological weapon to tip the odds in the trade war you started in your favor. And you know it too. Your posts here demonstrate that.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 12 2020 0:07 utc | 34

karlof1 #29

Thank you for that link to the first NATO. A wake up call. I wonder if Dominic Cummings is being relentlessly targeted for his determination to squash the blob - better known as the permanent state in the UK. Here is an insight from a conservative source.

The constant barrage against him in particular indicates how ingrained the right to rule is within Whitehall or the UK 'public service'.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 0:13 utc | 35

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 11 2020 22:29 utc | 26


China's healthy life expectancy surprassed that of the US, so these "chinks", and the "evil CCP", must be doing something right. Crime levels in China are lower than the US too.

These Chicom robots who live for 50$ per month in the most polluted country in the world, how dare they live longer healthier lives than superior americans?

Posted by: Passer by | Jul 12 2020 0:18 utc | 36

NemesisCalling #31

Is there still room at this bar for a guy like me?

Beginning to think no.

Hold that thought, but consider that if you went to ZH or the Langster we would be the poorer as then we would have no drive to elaborate on the values of the east and the opportunities for the west and the socialist enterprise.

The more you post, the stronger are our proposals for a better future as opposed to the bleak regime support you offer.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 0:20 utc | 37

@34 gruff

What is funny is that you thought I was being braggadocious about the A-Bomb.

My point was that when technology divorces itself from spirit, you got problems. And what's his name was saying their Asian dicks were bigger because of Huawei's new handsets and phones or something.

Sailed right over your head, I see. I blame myself. Need to relate better to you crusty, crotchety types.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 12 2020 0:22 utc | 38

JC, nemesis calling apologized for a misspelled word, should have been 'folk'. It was not an insult.

Thanks to b for the California video - it was long but very informative on both issues, the school openings and prison vulnerability. I think one speaker mentioned that Norway has de-incarcerated 50 percent of its prisoners. That would seem a good number to shoot for, given that our US prisons are so overcrowded. The situation in California has looked very dire. But the efforts of the team involved in the video are to be highly praised. That's the California I used to know and love.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 12 2020 0:28 utc | 39

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 11 2020 22:48 utc | 28 & 30

"China and Russia raised their masses OUT of poverty and ill health."

I have no love for communism, PERIOD! My ancestors were wiped out during Japanese Occupation and China civil wars... ancestral home destroyed in Huanggang. My dad was a KMT officer escaped before 1949.

There are over 100millions minority still in poverty and in spite of the Covid-19 pandemic, Xi Jinping determines to wipe out poverty. These 100millions are minorities mainly Mao. Hmong etc. lives in the cliff and mountains in China. China recognizes 59 minorities grouping, Han being the majority represent 91% of China. there are presently many millions of Chineses in SEA and worldwide, Thailand has about 10million Chinese

Posted by: JC | Jul 12 2020 0:31 utc | 40

further to my post at #35

The UK upper ranks are being redesigned and I wonder if Integrity Initiative and The Institute for Statecraft are in Cummings and Boris sights. I would love to see that ridicule riven pack of clowns get shafted.
From the link above (apologies for the paywall)

Coinciding with the recent resignation of Cabinet Secretary Sir Mark Sedwill, followed on Thursday by Sir Richard Heaton, permanent secretary at the Ministry of Justice - the fourth top civil servant to quit in just five months - Levido’s exit signals change is afoot.

So I will stay on this topic with this interesting story from 'civil service world'. Caution - it is an insider view.

Might have a peek at George Galloway to see if he has a perspective on this.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 0:38 utc | 41

NemesisCalling @38

What utter nonsense. "We're a bunch of soulless psychopaths who have murdered millions of civilians in the lifetimes of those at the bar, and an example of that is these brutal weapons that we have made, but you're just the same because you make good cell phones!"

Yeah, good argument there MemesisFailing.

And don't think we didn't notice that it was you with your dick on the bar with that comment about nukes trying to impress us with prior generations' technical prowess. Maybe you're a grower and not a shower, though...

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 12 2020 0:41 utc | 42

Posted by: juliania | Jul 12 2020 0:28 utc | 39

"JC, nemesis calling apologized for a misspelled word, should have been 'folk'. It was not an insult."

juliania, thanks, you are a good person and kind hearted... But I cannot accepted the word "golks" its like using the N..... word on a black person!

Posted by: JC | Jul 12 2020 0:43 utc | 43

Like many MoAites, I'm not big on the grauniad as it is a repository of MI6/SIS disinformation however Witness K and the Australian spying operation that continues to betray Timor-Leste is worth the read if only because it precis an article in The Australian Foreign Affairs Journal that is otherwise impossible to come by without paying AUD$29.95 to a mob of extremely conservative foreign policy wonks.
I'm surprised that this article which excoriates ASIS (the Australian Security Intelligence Service which was founded by brits but is now run by seppos) is in the graun except maybe the englanders are pissed at something else going on in ASIS.

Australians mostly know the story, that back in the noughties when Oz sat down to re-negotiate with the government of Timor-Leste over the oil & gas rights in the Timor gap which Indonesia had illegally granted to Oz as payment for recognising Indonesian sovereignty of East Timor (as it was then), the Oz government decided to spy on the Timor-leste side by planting bugs using an Oz Aid grant for Public Service Office. reconstruction as a cover.
A criminal act against a so-called ally, a desperately impoverished ally.

Some Australians were upset & leaked details of the op after the re-negotiation all went Ox's way. The uproar forced Oz to give back a lot of what they had stolen, so a pissed off Oz government has decided to charge the leakers with some sort of spying.

A disgrace & a real mess, it shows exactly how it is that imperial corruption is as infectious as covid 19.

Xanana who is trying to help the Australian spies who leaked the sorry tale is a great human, a Timor-Leste leader who didn't succumb to the baubles unlike Horta.

Posted by: A User | Jul 12 2020 0:57 utc | 44

juliania 39

JC is correct. Neoliberalazis have zero tolerance for ethnic slurs against Black Americans (though not necessarily those against Black Africans... odd) but are willing to excuse those against Asians.

It is funny, but when discussing "diversity" on college campuses, that "diversity" never includes Asians, or for that matter Eastern Europeans, or Syrians, or Iranians or so on. In fact, "diversity" often doesn't even include Latin Americans. It is strange how narrow neoliberal middle class Americans' concerns about "diversity" are.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 12 2020 0:58 utc | 45

re: William Gruff @45

Oops! Sorry about that typo! I didn't mean to suggest that neoliberal middle class Americans are Nazi material, even if they cling to the same delusions of superiority and self-importance that drive fascism!

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 12 2020 1:01 utc | 46

@ 39 juliania.. how can the usa shoot for lower incarceration rates when the prison system in the usa is privatized and has lobbyists pushing for shit like 3 strikes and you are out?? being held without bail for indefinite lengths of time - this is also a lucrative thing private prisons! the usa has one messed up set up with regard to its penal system... a better approach would be for the usa to move away from a focus on money to one on mercy.. i can't see that happening any time soon...

Posted by: james | Jul 12 2020 1:07 utc | 47

JC #40

there are presently many millions of Chineses in SEA and worldwide, Thailand has about 10million Chinese

Thank you JC, I am sure there is a large migration of many peoples throughout the world.

I see the USA has 224 MILLION european americans at 2010.

The Chinese communist revolution succeeded in main due to centuries of dynastic enslavement, foreign occupations and associated brutal slaughters and thievery and then finally the glimmer of hope to throw off the yoke that crushes the downtrodden. Regardless of the stories you may have heard the reality of most Chinese prior to 1945ish was as described in Ten Mile Inn by Isabel and David Crook.

Sure, your ancestors and mine may have made errors as to the side they chose to stand with but you and I can propagate a better world to the future.

Today my mind learns and embraces a better world through education, good health and a benign social democratic experience. However I see socialism as the most beneficial formula through the rigid control of both capital and the tendency of domination in the human race.

Socialism has demonstrated to be the best social format for the benefit of all. Work toward its betterment and future peoples will be grateful.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 1:38 utc | 48


All this bar talk with NemesisCalling and very little clarity about the core issue.

NemesisCalling has reported themselves as Catholic and while the US Constitution says all these things about separation of church and state, in reality the US motto got changed in the early 1950's from a pluralist nature, E Pluribus Unum, to In God We Trust. That In God We Trust motto appears on all the private backed money called US dollars....but I digress

NemesisCalling does not like China, which has banned usury where the Catholic church has allowed it.

NemesisCalling does not like China because China does not allow any of faith a position in the communist party nor jobs in the government.....NemesisCalling does not like secular.

Yes, NemesisCalling , I am putting words in your mouth that come from previous conversations we have had on this forum. Tell me where I am am wrong.

Humanity is in a civilization war about socialism or continuation of the Western barbarism led by those exposing the exceptionalist cults of faith.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 12 2020 1:39 utc | 49

What a difference a vowel makes...

Humanity is in a civilization war about socialism or continuation of the Western barbarism led by those expousing the exceptionalist cults of faith.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 12 2020 1:58 utc | 50

re JC | Jul 12 2020 0:31 utc | 40

" there are presently many millions of Chineses in SEA and worldwide, Thailand has about 10million Chinese". Sorry JC, but I reckon that statement in its current form is both misleading and dangerous.
Misleading because it implies that those termed 'Chinese' will be thought by others to be people who are or have once been citizens of the PRC or Formosa when in fact most of the considerable number of ethnic chinese or most probably Han people, have been living in Vietnam ,Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia, and Singapore for at least 4 generations and are actually Vietnamese, Cambodian, Thai, Indonesian & Singaporean.

I had a couple of mates at Intermediate (middle) school whose forebears came to Aotearoa in the 1880's and who knew about as much of any Chinese language or culture as myself, which was none.

This is dangerous because as I am sure you are aware both Malaysia & Indonesia waged a genocidal war on ethnic Chinese citizens based on the grounds that they were 'Chinese' and therefore communist. Hundreds of thousands were killed by the double game of claiming to the world that 'these people' were marxist, whilst convincing the indigenous populations that ethnic Chinese were the cause of citizens' economic hardship.

We can all whine about how 'multiculturalism' is a tool of neolibs to divide the population, but equally we must not forget that rightist politicians' project to identify people by their ethnicity rather than their citizenship is even more dangerous. One only need consider Myanmar if a more recent example of this is required. Muslim artisans were invited into Burma/Myanmar more than 400 years ago yet despite that they have been rendered stateless during the 20th century, then in the 21st, homeless, by fascist Buddhists - purely on the basis their ethnicity. Never mind that their families have been living in Myanmar longer than most burman families have.

Posted by: A User | Jul 12 2020 2:40 utc | 51

A User @51

Fascinating! So if the ethnic Chinese who were murdered in Malaysia & Indonesia had actually been communists or Marxists then the CIA's death squad work there would have been justified!

If only those ethnically Chinese people had not been viewed as Marxists then the genocides in Malaysia & Indonesia would have been OK. The real problem with those genocides was that some non-Marxists got murdered.

Oh well, that was years ago. The CIA is better now. I am sure they only engage death squads to murder real Marxists these days.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 12 2020 3:26 utc | 52

Below is a link to Ellen Brown's web site and two recent video interviews

Two video interviews — on RT America and Kim Iverson

The RT America one is about 8 minutes and the Kim Iverson (to be credited with trying to wake up) one is 40 some minutes and really lets Ellen cover lots of ground. As I recall, both of them explain that Black Rock, the implementer of a major part of the current US bailout initially used the funds to bail itself out.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 12 2020 3:33 utc | 53

re William Gruff | Jul 12 2020 3:26 utc | 52
FFS you're a petty little prick aren't you? You are well aware of the fact that is not what I meant much less wrote you weakling. You're about as marxist as winston churchill something you revealed by your inability to comprehend that amerikan citizens' cowardice inspiring them to arming themselves up against such an over exaggerated mythical, low odds of ever coming across, home invader, is merely a micro version of the proaganda and MIC shite the amerikan nation gets up to justify their imperial bullying.

Grow up or piss off - the choice is yours .

Posted by: A User | Jul 12 2020 3:44 utc | 54

Andre Vltchek has written a very useful portrait of modern Vietnam, showing how its socialist style of governance, led by its own Communist party, has turned the country into one that has developed a very high quality of life.

The Tremendous but “Secret” Success of Socialist Vietnam

"Vietnam has become one of the most comfortable countries in Asia. A place where millions of Westerners would love to live."

Crucially for us in the west, Vltchek quotes several western and global sources to validate his claims about Vietnam - indeed it is largely the sources themselves that make the claims he simply quotes. Even the Economist allows, with some admiration, that Vietnam's response to the pandemic was a shining triumph, and this because of Vietnam's social organization.

Someone in a recent thread here asked about Vietnam and how to explain its outstanding defeat of the virus. I know that I read a very clear account of exactly this, but I never could find it. Now Vltchek offers a good sketch of how the country responded to the threat it saw looming on its China border.

I highly recommend his report for a reset on thinking, if desired, and a current update on Vietnam.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 12 2020 3:48 utc | 55

A User @54

Sure. Whatever it was you were trying to say.

I do see why you don't use Eugene Debs' name any more. That's way too heavy for you.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 12 2020 4:02 utc | 56

Posted by: A User | Jul 12 2020 2:40 utc | 51

I'm NOT from the mainland China, my siblings and kids, nieces, nephews and cousin settled in Scotland, Indonesia, Finland, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia and Australia.

You have small mind, know very little of Asia. We were way ahead of Christopher Columbus and never engaged in slavery practises. History taught us Chinese first went overseas when eunuch Admiral Zheng He makes 7 voyages to Southeast Asia, the Indian Subcontinent, and East Africa from 1371 - 1435. Generations of Chinese settled in many of these countries. I visited one of Zheng He Temple along the road to Malacca when Zheng dug a well and built a temple near Buki Cina Hill where Chinese princes and her entourage were buried..

"This is dangerous because as I am sure you are aware both Malaysia & Indonesia waged a genocidal war on ethnic Chinese citizens"

You are wrong! Malaysia did not waged wars on the Chinese, but rather to preserved the Malay culture and social practice. The British fought the Malaya Chinese communist. Yes, in Indonesia, they did slaughter ethnic Chinese during Sukarno era.

Please dun teach me about the commie, my dad was stateless, he was on the American/British sides. I know all about a the freaking American and British shits...

Posted by: JC | Jul 12 2020 4:37 utc | 57

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 12 2020 3:26 utc | 52

"Oh well, that was years ago. The CIA is better now. I am sure they only engage death squads to murder real Marxists these days."

You know what? Obama said we are good at killing people, or something like it. Honest I couldn't make it up!! He and Trump did murder Americans and an Iranian General, right?

Posted by: JC | Jul 12 2020 4:44 utc | 58

james @ 47, yes, I don't expect they will turn into angels, but there are angels involved in the effort as is evident from the video b posted, and the virus may well force the issue since prisons are becoming a vector into the community at large.

Liz Rogers is the name of the lady spearheading the effort on behalf of prisoners. I was impressed by her dedication and control as she described what they faced at San Quentin. Her compassion is obvious. One of the physicians involved there described how the prisoners themselves attempted to scrub down the ancient walls, and make every part of their environment as clean as possible, to no avail. The physician emphasized that they did all they themselves possibly could and were not to blame for the situation. That conditions when the team arrived to make recommendations in early June were horrifying, and from then on escalated rapidly. A large contingent of not properly selected by testing prisoners from another overcroweded facility had been forced upon an already overcrowded institution, and the result whad been a firestorm.

Profit making won't stand up to this scrutiny,and this message in my estimation. Neither the public nor the prisoners themselves will stand for it. There are still good people in this world, in spite of the neoliberals who only have power because they have had a slick message of greed. They are being shown up for the carpetbaggers they really are.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 12 2020 6:55 utc | 59

Mr. Gruff @ 45:

"...It is funny, but when discussing "diversity" on college campuses, that "diversity" never includes Asians, or for that matter Eastern Europeans, or Syrians, or Iranians or so on. In fact, "diversity" often doesn't even include Latin Americans. It is strange how narrow neoliberal middle class Americans' concerns about "diversity" are.

I don't really think that today there is a group one would call 'neoliberal middle class Americans' who can access college, so I am not sure what or who such discussions involve. And when I say 'today' I am not even considering the intra-covid period so much in flux at present. What we used to consider the middle class doesn't exist any longer. College has become an elite privilege - either that or one is forced to take on debt that would overload the proverbial camel, to burden him in ways that only the rich could hope to carry, let alone squeeze through that eye of the needle.

Not to say there aren't some kids who manage to buck the system. My own half Chinese grandson, I am proud to say, is doing so in spite of the difficulties and in spite of the virus. He has inherited the brilliance of his Chinese ancestors as well as whatever initiative he got from mu side of the family. If you want to consider diversity, it does exist in so many interesting and beautiful combinations throughout the world already. And if universities and colleges in the US are becoming moribund, there are other avenues of education to explore, and they are being explored. A professor of mine once said all you need is a book and a good dictionary.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 12 2020 7:21 utc | 60

Nemesis calling @ all the above comments.
With out you and similar commentators this blog would be an echo chamber.
You provide us with a good insight into the mind set of middle America.
We have both strongly disagreed in the past.
I wonder ! Has MOA influenced you at all ? Softened your hard right perspective?
You say your religious but all I hear is your exeptionalism and lack of love for your fellow man !
Am I wrong about you ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 12 2020 9:47 utc | 61

The USA has a biolab in Ukraine as reported in Veteranstoday.

Now I would imagine that Joe Biden could tell us much more about the lab, the companies involved and the issues raised in this story.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 10:57 utc | 62

The USA has a biolab in Ukraine as reported in Veteranstoday.

Now I would imagine that Joe Biden could tell us much more about the lab, the companies involved and the issues raised in this story.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 10:57 utc | 63

JC #57

Calling devious BS on your "slaughter ethnic Chinese during the Sukarno era".

Any Chinese person in Indonesia knows it was the CIA backed coup leader Suharto that instigated and led that slaughter. If you were the slightest part Chinese you would know that too. Propagandist lies! Read your history and don't take us for fools.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 11:08 utc | 64

Today, there are people in Galicia and the Basque Country who have been disposesed of their right to vote in elections because they have tested positive.
In certain regions it is mandatory to wear a mask everywhere once yo ugo out of your home.

What about this people? Do we really need this kind of tourism? What´s the point on accepting these tourist from a non-EU country who moreover has not been precisely knownw for its good control of the pandemic, leaving the virus at its own in the first months?

Where are health authorities in fornt of this? These people should be delivered back to their country asap...

Seeing these images once feels that after all the end of tourism would not be so bad...
These people not only do not respect health care mandatory measures for stopping the pandemic, but neither they do respect private propierty, jumping on a neghbor´s car gives them simply a damn. I bet you these are not the children of working peers who for sure would know how much it cost for a woerker to get a car, neither these are antifascists by anu hint of imagination...
Wondering what the opinion of the Trumpist here and in other blogs is about these hooligans who land every summer in they seem of the opinion, and broadcast it ti the four winds, that every hooligan belongs to the left, antifa, BLM, and so on

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jul 12 2020 11:15 utc | 65

Grieved #55

Thank you for that link to Vltchek on Vietnam. Excellent read.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 11:23 utc | 66

Why Trump now uses the symbol of the international left, or more proper that of Otpor?

And, what is going to happen in Venezuela which the US will be very involved into?

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jul 12 2020 11:24 utc | 67

Some humor, otherwise we will die of nausea...

"Qanon", discovering that his son is a communist...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jul 12 2020 11:30 utc | 68

A User @44,

I'm not sure many non Australians would understand the rhyming slang term "seppos" as in those who now run the so called intelligence services in OZ. Let's av a go eh: "seppo" as in septic tank = Yank.

Apart from that good on ya for bringing this story to attention outside Australia, and very well summarised too.

I also wouldn't subscribe to that neocon type propaganda journal either.

Here is one for free and John Menadue is highly respected, try searching his cv online:

Menadue is always good value.

Australia has 'gone to the dogs' that's why I fled. Try getting off the electoral roll from overseas, but that's another story maaaate.

Posted by: Paul | Jul 12 2020 11:48 utc | 69

Baleares Islands amongst the Spanish communities where the us of mask in open space, eventhough social distancing is respected, is mandatory...But, for what it seems, it is mandatory for Spanish taxpayers, not UK tourists...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jul 12 2020 11:53 utc | 70

Protests in Lebanon you say?

More than 80,000 people gathered in Tel Aviv's Rabin Square yesterday to protest the "failed" economic measures of the Benajmin Netanyahu executive, who promised to help the country during the crisis caused by the coronavirus.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jul 12 2020 11:59 utc | 71

Demands by the Lybian LNA to lift blockade of country´s oil exports:

The LNA makes three demands to lift the blockade on the country's oil exports:

1) That an account be opened in a foreign bank where to deposit the oil revenues and establish a mechanism to distribute the benefits among the regions of the country.

2) Establish a mechanism with international supervision to prevent oil money from being used to finance terrorism or mercenary forces

3) That the accounts of the Central Bank of Libya be reviewed and that information on the oil profits have been spent in recent years be made public.

Seems quite reasonable as starting point...

The only thing which seems unreasonable to me is opening an account in a foreign bank, unless it is a Russian or Swiss bank, after what we have witnessed has happened with Venezuelan Gold deposited in UK Central Bank and US sanctioned countries´ accounts abroad...

Go up and down the thread for more info about Lybia...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jul 12 2020 12:07 utc | 72

"Someone in a recent thread here asked about Vietnam and how to explain its outstanding defeat of the virus. I know that I read a very clear account of exactly this, but I never could find it."

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 12 2020 3:48

this what I read in April and June:

Vietnam May Have the Most Effective Response to Covid-19

How Did Vietnam Become Biggest Nation Without Coronavirus Deaths?


Posted by: c | Jul 12 2020 12:11 utc | 73
...unrest... that saw 4 ppl killed...
let me guess, such a mild reports of protests where police has opened fire on ppl, killed 4 and made some 50 injured... it must be in an "allied" country!

Posted by: Mina | Jul 12 2020 12:44 utc | 74

In the last voting for presiding the Eurogroup, a group of countries mostly belonging to European tax havens, allied with the most recently admitted from the former Soviet space, tiny countries whose economy is irrelevant in the European Union, representing as a whole a 20% of European GDP, managed to place their liberal right wing candidate against the candidate of the countries representing 80% of European GDP, that is France, Germany, Spain and Italy, together...

It seems that something needs to be changed in the EU so that a more balanced representation is achieved and we do not find ourselves crippled for life by the European Popular Party, and its Troy Horses in every European country, who works always in favor of transnational capital and thus against European countries gaining any strength and sovereignty, or the EU ends disamantled by former memebers and their transatlantic partners....


(...)Each era enthrons its values. In the 19th century, it was convenient for money to be invested in factories, to promote industrialization, so greed was the worst defect: it immobilized capital. Instead, on the horse of the 20th and 21st centuries, the so-called consumer society made a leap in quality: the middle and popular classes accessed bourgeois luxuries thanks to the source of credit, which never stopped flowing. Trips to the Maldives, high-end flats and cars were bought on credit. People cheerfully went into debt, thanks not only to our banks and savings banks, but also to the German and Dutch banks, which promoted among us a credit binge that in their countries was restricted or frowned upon. When the bubble burst and the cuts came, we doom an austerity that we should never have lost.

The Dutch now champion frugality. With an Irish candidate (a country that practices fiscal dumping, that is, unfair competition), they have just won the presidency of the Eurogroup and will try to put sticks on the wheels of the Merkel and Macron reconstruction plan. The word frugal, which describes sober and moderate life, derives, according to the etymologist Corominas, from homo bonae frugis, which means "honest man". I do not know if those who, having favored the fiscal or mercantile disorder, can now be described as honest, are indifferent to the devastation of the pandemic. They remind of that Mr. Scrooge, before the spirit of the future let him know that he would end up alone, rejected, surrounded by graves.

We know whose pocket the Eastern former Soviet countries are into...And it is not difficult to relate the European tax havens to the City of London and the interests of transnational capital instead of European nations..
It is to be guessed that even already out of the EU, the UK could manage to continue putting sticks in the wheels of Europe´s post-Covid recovery train, as it managed to do during its belonging to the EU, on behalf of its transatlantic ideological partner...

As Daniel Estulin states in his last podcast on Geopolitics, the theory of MacKinder on that "who dominates Eastern Europe dominates the Heartland, and who controls the Heartland controls the world", still continues being relevant for UK foreign policy. Eastern Europe signified for MacKinder the breach amongst Russia and Germany, being as well a menace for UK interests the alliance of Russia with China. To the current relevance of these foreign policy directives, the entry of Poland and Ukraine into the "Sterling Zone"....he points at the possibility that the UK´s elite could have as a project in reserve the creation of the Confederation of Poland and Ukraine, including the Baltic states and Belarus....For hat end, it is needed to break the EU as we know it....He points at the significant recent development on London transferring to Varsovia 100 tons of Gold ( the Venezuelan Gold?...) allegedly found...over the vaults....

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jul 12 2020 13:29 utc | 75

juliania @60: "I don't really think that today there is a group one would call 'neoliberal middle class Americans' who can access college...What we used to consider the middle class doesn't exist any longer. College has become an elite privilege."

Hmm... about 20 million college students in the US each year. That's a lot of "elites".

I think perhaps someone here has been browsing headlines on Google News and doesn't know anything about the state of education in America beyond what she sees there.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 12 2020 13:33 utc | 76

i havent checked prices lately but i think community colleges are still fairly cheap.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 12 2020 14:14 utc | 77


Or, make it illegal to buy Chinese goods and enforce that illegality with extremely stiff punishment for those who break the law. Trump's had four years, or nearly four years now, to make America a manufacturer again because afterall that's part & parcel of what once made America great, and yet, nada, nothing. Wall Street will not allow it and yet it allows Trump. Hang these motherfuckers from every light post in Manhattan. Or, shut the hell up and eat your shit sandwich.

Posted by: | Jul 12 2020 14:19 utc | 78

ah one local community college charges $1770.00 annual tuition for a full time student, plus an estimated $2000 for books. if the student lives at home, in the district of a particular college, that is not out of the reach of the middle class, assuming they still have jobs after the virus. the virus has changed everything.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 12 2020 14:35 utc | 79

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 12 2020 14:35 utc | 79

I think community colleges tend to be cheaper for residents of the city and/or state they're in. Non-residents pay more.

For example, City College of San Francisco (one of the largest in the country with multiple campuses in the city) charges nothing in enrollment fees for residents of the city under the "Free City" Program. State of California residents pay $46 per semester unit. Non-resident students pay a tuition fee per semester unit of $290 plus a $46.00 enrollment fee per unit. There are exemptions for non-residents who have some resident history (lived in California for certain periods of time.)

I went to CCSF from 2001 to 2006. I earned a Certificate in UNIX/Linux System Administration and took additional course in computer hardware, Windows, and especially computer security, as well as several programming languages and database programming. CCSF has a lot of trade courses like aircraft maintenance and the like as well as academic courses.

Back in the '70s I attended Lane Community College in Eugene, Oregon. But that was on the GI Bill and National Direct Student Loan, so I don't remember what the fees were back then. Back then I knew a guy who had a microfilm camera, so I purchased my textbooks, scanned them onto microfiche (plastic sheets with images of the textbooks), then sold them back to the bookstore. I viewed the fiche with a hand-held fiche reader in class. It looked weird but saved me a ton on book costs. :-)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 12 2020 14:56 utc | 80

Garment industry shifted to making masks under an LA city program...then their workers, mostly underpaid immigrants, got sick.

LA's mask factories shut down as hundreds of workers get sick

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 12 2020 15:10 utc | 81

i still remember paying something under 100 bucks for tuition back in the early 70's, and i could get perfectly acceptable used textbooks for 5 to 10 bucks at one of the local used book stores.
college has become much more of a racket in the ensuing years.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 12 2020 15:12 utc | 82

Another one bites the dust...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 12 2020 15:15 utc | 83

Another one bites the dust...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 12 2020 15:15 utc | 84

Sorry, fumble-fingered the damn post again... Time to go to sleep...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 12 2020 15:16 utc | 85

@ 59 juliania... thanks for your comments... i agree about the women you reference being very dedicated... that link b provided is a good one.. you may recall i had read that book by albert woodfox who was confined to solitary confinement for over 40 years in angola prison.. the book was released in the past year... i happened to be driving in the car listening to cbc radio and a lawyer for another prisoner in angola was discussing the situation in the usa prison system.. he was working on a case with a person who suffered from schizophrenia when committing the crimes he was charged for and also having been stuck in the prison his whole life.. he mentioned that the usa as a culture needs to develop a concept of mercy and compassion as opposed to one of hostility for what they don't understand.. i am simplifying it..

the fact someone with serious mental health issues could be locked up for life says some people somewhere don't give a rats ass about others.. now whether this is because they are the wrong colour, or whatever - it is hard to say... he talked about the prison guard who he got to know a little bit, who drove a pick up truck with the sticker 'if i had of known it was going to be like this, i would have picked my own cotton'... my post is a rambling one.. bottom line, a lot is going to have to change to change what is going on in the states and to make things better for all concerned... hopefully more dedicated and honourable people step up and address it... one of the first places for this to happen would be in the political leadership the usa has to choose from.. at present it continues to be pitiful..

Posted by: james | Jul 12 2020 15:18 utc | 86

in Indonesia, they did slaughter ethnic Chinese during Sukarno era.

Please dun teach me about the commie, my dad was stateless, he was on the American/British sides. I know all about a the freaking American and British shits...

Posted by: JC | Jul 12 2020 4:37 utc | 57

Wrong it happen during Soeharto era. Total political coup and military takeover of the government are disguised as anti communist purge. My parent only know communists as godless rather than it's real definition.

Posted by: Lucci | Jul 12 2020 15:59 utc | 87

A User | Jul 12 2020 2:40 utc | 51

”Muslim artisans were invited into Burma/Myanmar more than 400 years ago yet despite that they have been rendered stateless during the 20th century, then in the 21st, homeless, by fascist Buddhists - purely on the basis their ethnicity.”

Not quite true. The Rohingya have been committing mass slaughter against their Burmese hosts for a very long time.

Interestingly, the Wikipedia entry on Myanmar used to include a lengthy discussion of the 70-year period of murderous Rohingya attacks on Burmese military and police posts since the end of WWII. But then the US oligarchy realized that they could make use of the Rohingya by offering lip service to their “cause” and thereby help to create chaos in that portion of Myanmar which was occupied by Rohingya and which, more importantly to our oligarchs, had been designated as a crucial crossing point of the Chinese Belt and Road plan, which the US wants to disrupt at any cost.

As soon as the US government began making noises of support for Rohingya, the Wikipedia account of mass slaughters carried out by Rohingya against the Burmese disappeared.

As I have mentioned here before, the only person I know of who actually understands the complex situation in Myanmar regarding the Rohingya is Andrew Korybko. He has written extensively on the subject. Here are some links to some of his analyses:

And guess what – look here:

This article by “b” elicited responses by Korybko himself, including one comment by him that presented links to his superb historical analysis of the situation titled “American Plan for a Southasian Kosovo in Rohingyaland,” as well as to a book-length series of articles by him titled “How the US Could Manufacture a Mess in Myanmar.” It is my considered opinion that no one can claim to understand the issues involved until they've read Korybko's works.

And Korybko has yet more such information on line – it's easy to find.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jul 12 2020 16:06 utc | 88

I do know what happened to my own children, Mr. Gruff, and here in New Mexico community colleges are not free. I guess I should say we are poor, but I will also guess many of those numbers are students with mounting debt, as mine were after even only one semester. Debt which accrues exponentially and is not able to be cancelled by bankruptcy. Biden saw to that.

This didn't happen to the older children - they managed well. But I have younger ones with that debt burden around their neck. So yes, I do know whereof I speak.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 12 2020 16:34 utc | 89

When we were students in the late 50's early 60's, my husband and I accrued over the four years towards our BA's $2,000 in debt. This was at a private college where we had residence for the first three years. We did both have student aid jobs, which helped, but tuition in those days was affordable to the middle class, which I would say we were then. That debt stayed dormant after we graduated, it did not accrue interest, and we were not dunned to pay it off, which we did inside of two years after graduating.

The picture today in the US is not that.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 12 2020 16:41 utc | 90

I would suggest doing a search on Michael Hudson for his analysis of the debt issue. He's written and spoken a lot about the subject.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 12 2020 16:57 utc | 91

@88 That link to b's 2017 post reminded me how quickly Aung San Suu Kyi lost her status of 'fearless woman saving minorities from brutal military' in the Western press. Political reality took over.

Posted by: dh | Jul 12 2020 17:32 utc | 92

'...For all their faults and flaws, Bevin @ 6 and VK @ 7 easily run rings around him on a topic he should know like the back of his hand."
We all have 'faults and flaws' Jen, holding a different opinion from yours would not normally be regarded as being either.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 12 2020 17:45 utc | 93

Just when you thought Democrats couldn't make you laugh any harder...

Democrats will tell you that a dead horse is not dead until they say so.
Even after the flies have left the carcass.

Main Headline at "The Hill" website:

Congress pulls punches on Russian bounties firestorm

Democrats are continuing to press Trump administration officials for answers since news first broke that the ****U.S. intelligence community concluded months ago**** that a unit in Russia’s military intelligence agency offered payments to Taliban-linked militants to incentivize the killing of U.S. and coalition troops in Afghanistan.

There is no time limit on stupid

Posted by: librul | Jul 12 2020 17:47 utc | 94

grieved @55
I read the vlchek article on Vietnam:inspiring, thank you so much!

Posted by: migueljose | Jul 12 2020 18:04 utc | 95

very long and exhaustive - but great - run down of bill gates' "vulture philanthropy" including his recent role as self appointed Covid King. further proof (if needed) that you don't get to be one of the world's richest people by being "humanitarian" and giving money away.

Posted by: the pair | Jul 12 2020 18:09 utc | 96

Actually, the USSA and Chinese forms of government, when viewed from a certain special angle, appear to be identical. At least in the sense that the 'people' have absolutely zero say in regard to what the government/system actually does do.

You see, the 'founding fathers' who wrote up the USSA 'constitution' were very precisely the fabled 0.1%!!! And the 'constitution' they invented was a masterpiece of decption,as it was the greatest fake 'democracy' ever created. Plus the were, almost to a man, 100% USDA Grade "A" full of bullmanure. It was the first color revolution.

It is entirely possible that people living in thrall to the USSA form of corporatommunism actually have even less say in what 'their' government/system does that the people of Mainland China have in what their form of corporatommunism actually does do.

Do you know what really wiped out (at 90%) the USSA productional system? Education. That's right! Back in about 1971, they told Americans that if they didn't get a college degree, they would suffer the unthinkable curse of having to work WITH THEIR HANDS!!! That's right! So the most potentially productive USSAsians 'all went to school, and 'worked very hard at it', mostly studying bullmanure fake social 'science' indoctrination, but at least they would supposedly be 'taken seriously', and far more importantly, would never suffer the unthinkable curse of having to work WITH THEIR HANDS. What with owing probably more than they would ever pay off in unforgivable 'student loans' why the hell would they ever deign to actually work with their... well... work with their HANDS???

So where does this take us. Well the Mexicans and Chinese are far enough away from the land of those who must be 'taken' seriously to actually, um, how can I put it in polite terms? They are far enough away from that to actually, um, 'get their hands dirty'. There. I said it.

So here we are, and the dawn of morning is rising in America. Better close your eyes.

Posted by: blues | Jul 12 2020 19:01 utc | 97

@ 97 blues.. funny enough i was thinking about the tail end of the last thread with comments from vk and a poster named william henry on the topic of china.. you might find williams comments on education and etc interesting here...

i have quoted some of william henrys comments below and i am curious for some feedback, if anyone has any to offer... it is regards the idea of ''creating attractive high density population centers''.. has anyone lived in a highrise surrounded by highrises? i saw a lot of this type growth in both turkey in 2012 and malaysia in 2018 when we travelled to these two countries... the concept is very foreign to me... it kind of reminds me of packing sardines into a can, or corporate chicken farms where the chickens are all packed in a very small and inhospitable place.... now, maybe i am getting this concept of large populations living in high rise developments is the way of the future and who am i to question it? it looks and feels wrong to me, but i am curious for others input here.. thanks...

posted by Posted by: William R Henry | Jul 12 2020 2:44 utc | 184 on the previous thread -

"They have only recently starting to realize that they do not really have a population problem that cannot be addressed by technology. Creating attractive high density population centers is depopulating their countrysides, and they are only now starting to seriously think about hyper density urban developments.

But we don't have to wait for the Chinese to begin building those hyper density urban structures before they realize that they have room for immigration. Right this very moment Chinese families are grappling with the wisdom of sending their kids to the US for elite educations. They are wondering why they don't have elite universities like Harvard or Cambridge right in China to send their kids to. They will quickly realize that what makes a university elite is its ability to attract the top minds in the world, and those top minds might not be Chinese."

"Keep in mind that it was only a few years ago that typical Chinese individuals littered profusely. They viewed the whole country as being a garbage dump anyway, so what difference would a little more litter make? It has only been a few years since the Chinese in general started viewing their country as a place that can be beautiful. It is another step for them to make before they realize that internationally respected people might want to become citizens."

"Change is occurring extremely rapidly in China. Change so rapid that consciousness is not keep up with that change. China will begin developing paths to citizenship for academics, scientists, and engineers over the coming years as their consciousness begins to catch up. We will probably see this first in Chinese universities. This process will be accelerated or retarded depending upon how quickly the current economic crisis is expressed in the US."

Posted by: james | Jul 12 2020 19:24 utc | 98

@ james | Jul 12 2020 19:24 utc | 98 with the question about hyper density urban developments

The concept is not new and could represent an improvement over suburban sprawl

I learned about Paolo Soleri and his Arcosanti design back in the 1970's

Humanity just needs the will to try something better. As long as it is not private finance driven but designed/built for public benefit, IMO, it has to be an improvement over what we have now.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 12 2020 19:46 utc | 99

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 12 2020 1:38 utc | 48 & 64
Posted by: Lucci | Jul 12 2020 15:59 utc | 87

To clear the air, I recalled the "Non-Aligned Movement a forum of developing states not formally aligned with or against any major power bloc or nations." It consist of - Nehru India, Tito Yugoslavia, Bung Karno, Bapa Sukarno Indonesia, Zhou Enlai China, Habib Bourguiba Tunisian, Norodom Sihanouk Cambodian, U Nu Burma, Kwame Nkrumah, Gamal Abdel Nasser Egypt, Fidel Castro Cuba, at the Bandung conference in 1955, the Non-Aligned Movement was born. Later many nationalism leaders were disposed. How about Sukarno, did he "slaughter" the Chinese? Nope that's from what I was told from BBC and it remains in my mind until uncle tungstan and Lucci points out my mistakes, it was Suharto with CIA and Brit Foreign Office that brought down Sukarno and Suharto was disposed his wife was known as Ten Percent.

How we destroyed Sukarno

I was growing up and aligned with Americans exceptionlism. It was after ww2 and nationalism on the rise (almost) everywhere changed of government. In school each morning assembled to raised the union jack and sing god save the freaking queen. That's when I was indoctrinated from BBC the evils of communism and socialism. Western imperialist was the way to go man. Much of my lunch hours in the library mainly reading, one book, my librarian recommended The Jungle is Neutral by Spencer F, Chapman. The book still available and probably my view has changed am no longer accepting the stupid Brit and Yank.

Posted by: JC | Jul 12 2020 20:08 utc | 100

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