Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 23, 2020

Open Thread 2020-58

News & views ...

Posted by b on July 23, 2020 at 14:04 UTC | Permalink

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Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 24 2020 20:21 utc | 174

You will discover that the US neocons don't care about any of that. Neither does Israel.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 25 2020 1:27 utc | 201

Posted by: arby | Jul 24 2020 18:55 utc | 161 In Iran it is widely believed that the objective was to cause Syrian air defences to mistakenly shoot down the plane or to force the pilot to make a catastrophic mistake."

Yes. The US claims they were "investigating" the plane "under international law" to avoid a "threat" to their Al Tanf base. The claim is patently ridiculous. The US has AWACS planes over Syria. They would have known precisely what that plane was the moment it entered Syrian airspace and probably the moment its flight plan was filed. So their "investigation" was a deliberate provocation. There can be no doubt.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 25 2020 1:32 utc | 202

@ Peter AU1 at # 200 who commented

NemesisCalling 198 "And I just don't think there are champions among us to focus the energy of the outrage and direct it where it belongs."

You hit the nail on the head with that one. Anyone that has that ability and they are few, is identified and neutralized in some way before anything can form.

When I learned that my country (US) was using intelligence from Peace Corp volunteers to neutralize potential challengers in other countries I increased my ardor to eliminate private finance and the hurt on society it projects.

Its up to us muddling sorts to do what we can to educate the public and bring an end to this sick sort of social organization.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 25 2020 1:36 utc | 203

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 24 2020 16:08 utc | 144 There is no need for Chauvin to be corrupt in order to make a really, really good living.

And again you demonstrate that you still don't get the point.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 25 2020 1:39 utc | 204

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jul 24 2020 15:29 utc | 135 Surely, Iran will fight to a nuclear death, if it has to. Once a nuke is detonated over Tehran, follow up runs will be, on Isfahan, Mashhad, and Shiraz. From there, Moscow, St. Petersburg, Beijing, and Shanghai.
Whomever advocates for this, is advocating for end times. Nuclear annihilation of the planet. Rapture, that is.

I know I shouldn't engage trolls, but...

1) There will be no nukes detonated over Tehran. I can conceive of a tactical nukes on some Iranian underground bunker housing nuclear research. That's about it. And that will be done as covertly as possible by declaring it was just a "bunker buster" conventional bomb. Neither the US nor Israel will risk total geopolitical condemnation by using nukes on a non-nuclear Third World (or Second World depending on how you classify Iran) country.
2) There will be no intervention by Russia, China or anyone else except Iranian proxies in the region. The most Russia and China will do is sell Iran weapons and perhaps supply some military intelligence covertly. This is precisely because neither country will risk their own country in a nuclear confrontation with the US over a Third World country, no matter how much Putin proclaims Iran an "ally". Without a mutual defense treaty, it's simply not going to happen.

Anyone who thinks differently is a delusional idiot.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 25 2020 1:46 utc | 205

Very little difference between the two, both in physical shape and character. For all intents and purposes, Pompeo is Goering's protege.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 24 2020 2:01 utc | 70

This is not possible. When one is born 18 years after the death of the other, "protege" relationship is hard to achieve. More saliently, even if true, this relationship does not confer phenotypic similarity. But any educated person, at least a person educated on horror movies, knows about Nazi long term project to recreate their leadership through human cloning. Fuerer should be cloned as well, more then once, but he is easier to hide, just use some hair transplants and shave better. Goering closes are easier to spot.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 25 2020 1:53 utc | 206

psychohistorian 203 "Its up to us muddling sorts to do what we can to educate the public and bring an end to this sick sort of social organization."

Like a bag full of cats when we all rock up to b's watering hole. :)

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 25 2020 1:55 utc | 207

Piotr Berman 206

Satire sometimes gets past the censors in this free speech politically correct world. A half dozen monty pythons would be handy about now.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 25 2020 2:02 utc | 208

What a man!

"Professor William N. Brown spend 30-yrs of his life in Xiamen University in Xiamen China. He has two sons and his wife."

"I feel truly happy and honored to receive a letter from President Xi, and also a big surprise,"

Professor Bill Brown has been teaching at XMU’s Center for Business Administration Education since 1988. He was one of the first international teachers to introduce MBA courses at a Chinese university. He was also the first foreigner to receive permanent residency in Fujian. He is a .....

Posted by: JC | Jul 25 2020 2:15 utc | 209

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 25 2020 1:46 utc | 205
I know I should not engage you, the mendacious, criminal bank robber, war-monger troll, but, after a decade, what’s a few more line to stamp out your dream.

I made you president for a day. It is still your move. Remember the game?
No, I have it saved. It was on the 7th day. Did not drag out 30 years.
Please RSH make the move. You know you want to.
Here is the game:

President RS Hack is sitting in the White House. SecDef giving update on day 7 of the war.
Sir, sir, wake up sir. In response to the empire destroying the Naqsh-e Jahan Square in Esfahan (a world heritage site), Iranians just relegated several frigates and an aircraft carrier to decorate the bottom of that Iranian lake called Persian Gulf. At least 3000 are thought to be dead. Also, our bases are in an ash heap, smoldering.
Congressmen and senators are lining up the halls calling for “ACTION.” And the sheeple, well, you’ve gotten them so riled up, they too, want “ACTION.”
Sir, what are 8000 nukes good for, if you can’t use them? We’ve got to do something. What?
Sir, sir, snap out of it sir. Got to do SOMETHING.

Your move Richard.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jul 25 2020 2:34 utc | 210

Iran confirmed on Thursday, that the recent explosions and fires inside the country are not related to sabotage operations or cyber attacks.

According to the Fars News Agency, who quoted the statements of the Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman, Abbas Mousavi, reported that “the country’s infrastructure is subject to thousands of cyber attacks daily and most of them are thwarted.”

However, Mousavi pointed out that these cyber attacks are not responsible for the recent rise in explosions and fires across the Islamic republic.

Mousavi continued, “The Iranian defense system is thwarting most of these attacks, and the enemies have not achieved their main goals from them,” pointing out that “the countries and entities that support, lead and carry out these attacks, most of them launched by the American administration, have been identified.”

Posted by: Mao | Jul 25 2020 3:28 utc | 211

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 25 2020 1:46 utc | 205

There you go quoting me out of context, yet again. Yeah you know, the first two line that I painstaking put together to show that it’s NOT about ‘the war’?
No, those lines didn’t fit your purpose since you want to make it about ‘the war’, yada, yada.

You are still a cheeky bass-turd for quoting me out of context. And I’m thinking like the way Vinnie Jones’ character in the movie, Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, says it.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jul 25 2020 4:40 utc | 212

Yer name is Bagoom? OK.

What are you talking about?

Posted by: blues | Jul 25 2020 7:56 utc | 213

Just a reminder
Antifa is short for anti-fascism.
To be against Antifa is to be pro-fascism..

Distruction of property ?
How about Iraq, Syria and Yemen, Libya.
There are only two choices for trump escalate or de-escalate!
He’l choose the wrong one.
I sense the fear of unrest among US commentators here. That fear is justified, Three quarters of the world will be happy. Including me.
Bring it on, sorry not sorry.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 25 2020 9:37 utc | 214

Here’s a very useful list of resources for members of the public wishing to protest against police/state brutality ———

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 25 2020 10:19 utc | 215

What are you talking about?

Posted by: blues | Jul 25 2020 7:56 utc | 213

What part is unclear blues?

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jul 25 2020 11:32 utc | 216

NemesisCalling @198: "And I just don't think there are champions among us to focus the energy of the outrage and direct it where it belongs."

How can any sort of collective outrage be focused in a culture fixated on personalized artificial "identities"? Greasy and overweight purple haired femininity-hating third-wave feminists vs autistic, beige, suburban middle class incel cucks vs generic, incoherent, hyperaggressive, urban gangsta thugs, all prizing their imagined uniqueness in the "identities" they mimic from the archetypes in the mass media they consume. Few of these people are capable of rising above the fugue-like and fragmented stream of consciousness that their fake identities are pasted over to even focus on a body of text longer than a Twitter post.

No focus can last in a culture that fetishizes identity because the very act of focusing on common interests threatens the primacy of identity with cognitive dissonance mind-quakes. The current "protests" are about as focused as you can get, and that is not saying much.

A champion to show a productive way forward is an even bigger challenge, because that champion would have to overcome the identity bullshit to sell unity. Before anyone can ever hope to get there they need to take a deep look into how society works. The protesters want to change social relations, but social relations always originate from economic relations in society. Social concerns of status and privilege are necessarily and inescapably subordinate to economic relations. For their part the economic relations in a society are defined by the economic structure and organization of that society. The economic organization of American society is capitalism. The consequence of this is that any champion who continues to embrace capitalism as an economic system will necessarily fail to focus the outrage in a productive manner. That champion's leadership will unavoidably lead right back to where we are right now, because that champion will steer the outrage away from grappling with capitalism itself. This will leave the underlying cause for the outrage intact. See Bernie Sanders, or for that matter any European "socialist", for a case study in how this works.

The protests are exciting. If there were any being put on in my town I'd probably go and enjoy the event too, but the protests cannot lead anywhere positive or resolve anything. Even American capitalism's biggest domestic victims are still too wedded to capitalist ideology to imagine turning their outrage to where it should be directed. This means that the outrage will continue to be generated.

One thing that we know about outraged mobs is that when they become frustrated they will change direction. I think it is pretty obvious what the new direction will become, but I think I should leave that unsaid so as to not spoil the surprise. Hint: It is the direction the mob always takes when left leadership fails to deliver.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 25 2020 11:56 utc | 217

WRT the multiple postings about Derek Chauvin

Neither Chauvin or Floyd are real persons. Floyd was supposedly a five time loser but each time he made early parole and made parole easy. This does not occur. Then, with that background, he got a job in security. Right. Only way he would get a security job would be if he was mobbed up and was working for the mob. Well, sure does seem like the nightclub in question fits the description, but we don’t hear much about that. Chauvin, if a real cop, is not going to work with an ex-con on a security detail. Unless he too is mobbed up and an exceptionally dirty cop. And we don’t hear about that either.

The Minneapolis Star-Trbune article posted above says when police raided the Chauvin house it was empty. Except for boxes of financial records left behind which were exactly what they were looking for.. Right. Perhaps the house was “empty” because no one ever lived there. Or perhaps the wife who wants a divorce emptied the house. And she did that acting on advice of her lawyers. There’s an active murder case and none of this is coordinated with police. On and on none of this is believable. Because this has been theater from beginning.

Of course half the posters here are nonpersons as well and no one is ever skeptical. Credulity R Us.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jul 25 2020 12:42 utc | 218

@William Gruff,

a local incident last month at our protests in Missoula is exposing a fascinating media divergence in narrative control. the simplistic version told by our corporate newspaper, the Missoulian, is that a white man with a gun unlawfully detained a black teenager in an alleyway in downtown Missoula.

the nuanced version of this story is being told by an online news start-up, the Missoula Current, and that version indicates the white man with the gun was actually acting as personal security for some of the organizers because both sides were concerned with OUTSIDE AGITATORS coming to our town to stir up trouble.

before congratulating the start-up, the reason I suspect they are telling a more nuanced story is because the reporter--a bald-headed white guy--was himself harassed by protestors because of how he looked. the protestors labeled him right-wing for no good reason and interrupted his attempts to interview people, so because of the protestor paranoia, and the miffed white guy reporter, a different story is coming out that undermines the simplistic corporate one.

a post about this will be up at my blog later today.

Posted by: lizard | Jul 25 2020 12:57 utc | 219

William Gruff @ 217
Correct me if I’m wrong but is the word you were reluctant to use ‘fascism’ ?
An excellent study of the situation pretty even and fair. Based on a view of a white person comftably off,with there own personal agenda. I get that ! You don’t want your nabourhood demolished.
Moving on black people want the same as you, including the right to self-determination and the right to protection from unprovoked police brutality.
Whilst I agree with nearly all you say in your comment.
I differ on a small point at the end of your comment (if my above guess was right)
You ‘ hint ‘ that ‘ failed left leadership may lead to ......
I suggest you already have fascism !
Take another closer look at Portland. As opposed to the slick over budgeted over crafted police video nemesis posted.
Let’s let others decide which one was fake news propergander.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 25 2020 13:09 utc | 220


do you really believe black people should have the right to self-determination? because if you do, you should consider why a black history professor from Berkeley felt it necessary to remain anonymous when writing stuff like this:

The claim that the difficulties that the black community faces are entirely causally explained by exogenous factors in the form of white systemic racism, white supremacy, and other forms of white discrimination remains a problematic hypothesis that should be vigorously challenged by historians. Instead, it is being treated as an axiomatic and actionable truth without serious consideration of its profound flaws, or its worrying implication of total black impotence. This hypothesis is transforming our institution and our culture, without any space for dissent outside of a tightly policed, narrow discourse.

A counternarrative exists. If you have time, please consider examining some of the documents I attach at the end of this email. Overwhelmingly, the reasoning provided by BLM and allies is either primarily anecdotal (as in the case with the bulk of Ta-Nehisi Coates’ undeniably moving article) or it is transparently motivated. As an example of the latter problem, consider the proportion of black incarcerated Americans. This proportion is often used to characterize the criminal justice system as anti-black. However, if we use the precise same methodology, we would have to conclude that the criminal justice system is even more anti-male than it is anti-black.

Would we characterize criminal justice as a systemically misandrist conspiracy against innocent American men? I hope you see that this type of reasoning is flawed, and requires a significant suspension of our rational faculties. Black people are not incarcerated at higher rates than their involvement in violent crime would predict. This fact has been demonstrated multiple times across multiple jurisdictions in multiple countries.

And yet, I see my department uncritically reproducing a narrative that diminishes black agency in favor of a white-centric explanation that appeals to the department’s apparent desire to shoulder the ‘white man’s burden’ and to promote a narrative of white guilt.

If we claim that the criminal justice system is white-supremacist, why is it that Asian Americans, Indian Americans, and Nigerian Americans are incarcerated at vastly lower rates than white Americans? This is a funny sort of white supremacy. Even Jewish Americans are incarcerated less than gentile whites. I think it’s fair to say that your average white supremacist disapproves of Jews. And yet, these alleged white supremacists incarcerate gentiles at vastly higher rates than Jews. None of this is addressed in your literature. None of this is explained, beyond hand-waving and ad hominems. “Those are racist dogwhistles”. “The model minority myth is white supremacist”. “Only fascists talk about black-on-black crime”, ad nauseam.

Posted by: lizard | Jul 25 2020 13:26 utc | 221

In the video I just posted the uniformed thugs look like ‘storm troopers ‘ but then what do I know ?
Remind me how many countrys has the US invaded? Or politicaly undermined ? Or sanctioned into ablivieon ?
If it walks like a facist talks like one, looks like one, it is one.
From there on what you see in Portland is oppression of the public.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 25 2020 13:33 utc | 222

Meet the Steele Dossier's 'Primary Subsource': Fabulist Russian at Democrat Think Tank Whose Boozy Past the FBI Ignored (RealClearInvestigations, Paul Sperry, July 24, 2020)

Danchenko confessed he had no inside line to the Kremlin and was “clueless” when Steele hired him in March 2016 to investigate ties between Russia and Trump and his campaign manager.

Desperate for leads, he turned to a ragtag group of Russian and American journalists, drinking buddies (including one who’d been arrested on pornography charges) and even an old girlfriend to scare up information for his London paymaster, according to the FBI’s January 2017 interview memo, which runs 57 pages. Like him, his friends made a living hustling gossip for cash, and they fed him a tissue of false “rumor and speculation” — which Steele, in turn, further embellished with spy-crafty details and sold to his client as “intelligence.”

Instead of closing its case against Trump, however, the FBI continued to rely on the information Danchenko dictated to Steele for the dossier, even swearing to a secret court that it was credible enough to renew wiretaps for another nine months.

Posted by: S | Jul 25 2020 14:18 utc | 223

Mark2 @220: "You ‘ hint ‘ that ‘ failed left leadership may lead to ......
I suggest you already have fascism !"

Yes, in the sense that fascism is essentially another term for anti-communism, we already have that. On the other hand, America hasn't had its "Kristallnacht" yet. We don't yet have concentration camps with gas chambers. That is yet to come, and it will be powered by "identity politics".

"Moving on black people want the same as you, including the right to self-determination and the right to protection from unprovoked police brutality."

Who says non-Black Americans have any more "right to self-determination" than do Black Americans? Who has "the right to protection from unprovoked police brutality"? Does the teargas in Portland only collect around the Black protesters and avoids the white ones?

These "rights" are fantasies that no working class people posses in capitalism. Perhaps some formulation could be developed to ensure that capitalist exploitation is lightened on Blacks and lands more heavily on other demographics, but hopefully you are wise enough to see how doing that will isolate Blacks and build the resentment that powers the "surprise" I mentioned above.

The quote that lizard @221 provided above in an important one to study because there are many millions of American "racists" who are very familiar with the points raised therein. I would like to expand slightly on the point "...if we use the precise same methodology, we would have to conclude that the criminal justice system is even more anti-male than it is anti-black."

Yes, the conclusion reached when using the same analysis to prove that the system is anti-Black is in fact anti-male is absurd, but that is a reflection of the absurdity of the methodology of the analysis. Why does that supposedly anti-racist methodology lead to absurdities? Because at its core it is capitalist ideology, which requires mental gymnastics when discussing fairness in capitalist society.

In fact, the criminal justice system is anti working class, not anti-Black or anti-male. Efforts to organize any sort of protests or fightback around race issues while ignoring the class basis of the problem will automatically result in failure. It is as impossible to achieve success that way as it is to put out a fire by training the fire hoses on the smoke cloud. This failure leads to the "surprise" that I mentioned above when capitalism's economic crisis becomes acute. Since capitalism's economic crisis is now very acute, the time for that "surprise" has arrived.

I will stay and do what I can for as long as I dare risk it, but when that "surprise" triggers I am out of here.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 25 2020 14:52 utc | 224

By "out of here" I mean the US, of course. I'm not really up to trying to spit into a hurricane.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 25 2020 15:00 utc | 225

I have stated before (recently)
This is’nt a black problem it’s a white problem !
When capatilism fails it degenerates into fascism, others here have mentioned this.
This it what we see.
Portland is symptomatic.
Trump and no affective political oppersition.
Live with it, you will have to. Bit like the germ warfare.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 25 2020 15:03 utc | 226

lizard @Jul25 13:26 #221

The claim that the difficulties that the black community faces are entirely causally explained by exogenous factors in the form of white systemic racism, white supremacy, and other forms of white discrimination remains a problematic hypothesis ...

This is a strawman.

Black people are not incarcerated at higher rates than their involvement in violent crime would predict.

So why are Blacks involved in more crime? The writer ignores the socio-economic causes. He ignores who defines what a crime is and the differences in sentencing between black and whites.

Furthermore, he is indirectly attacking BLM. The notion that African-Americans should seek "self-determination" is not a BLM project. It's something that has been debated well before BLM was established (at least since Malcolm X).

As an anti-BLM strawman, it is very similar to the complaint that BLM doesn't really care about black lives - they have nothing to say about black on black violence! This ignores that BLM was created specifically to challenge institutional racism. Saving black lives is not its mission. "Black Lives Matter (Too)" is a message to the establishment.

<> <> <> <> <>

It's funny that Whites will readily agree that "everyone is racist" yet defend every death-in-custody of a black man at the hand of white officers as not racist!!!

This is all the more curious when combined with White prediliction to ignore that mostly white (all white?) Antifa is causing most of the violence. Violence that is used to discredit BLM and allows Trump to further the authoritarian agenda of the right.

We can surmise that White thinking is easily short-circuited by racial attitudes that allow for easy acceptance racist tropes and race baiting which amount to nothing more than the same old derision at "uppity n*ggars".


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 25 2020 16:00 utc | 227

thumper @227,

please direct your !! to the black professor who wrote the quoted excerpt. oh wait, he remained anonymous because he exhibited wrong think.

thank you for engaging, but I find most of your commentary not worth reading. have a nice day


Posted by: lizard | Jul 25 2020 16:08 utc | 228

lizard @Jul25 16:08 @228



Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 25 2020 16:37 utc | 229

S @Jul25 14:18 #223

Danchenko is a suspicous character.

Given what has been revealed about him, it seems likely that he is a CIA asset or operative.

He may have become one when he was prosecuted by Rod Rosenstein in 2013. AFAIK we are not told what Federal offense he was prosecuted for. But apparently Dancheko was allowed to travel to Russia during the Federal prosecution (Danchenko had reached an agreement with prosecutors but it had not yet been filed with the court?).

I still think that Skripal was the real primary source if only because it explains what has happened to him.

I'm looking forward to what John Helmer has to say about Danchenko.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 25 2020 17:10 utc | 230

Jackrabbit @ 229
Ha ha that one went pop ! and chucked his dolly out the pram!
Don’t those closet racists hate the truth. Hate their tricks being exposed , loosening there credabilty.
Rispect to you jack Jackrabbit ! Truth to power always.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 25 2020 17:21 utc | 231

William Gruff @ 224
Thanks for that honest and considered reply. I reckonise genuine when I see it.
Definitions of fascism may differ between us, I doubt if the new US fascism will be / is a carbon copy of Hitlers fascism. Regarding concerntration camps maybe the corona virus was the modern replacement technology, targeting ethnic groups poor elderly ect
Gruffy none of us want this on the left or center / peace loving public like your selve.
But one lesson we can learn from preveous fascism — we ignore it at our cost.
Hitler admited he could have been stopped.
Stay safe, you have my full respect, your a good man.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 25 2020 18:55 utc | 232

The above contains a quote from Sen. Rubio that is insane. It shows how extreme and twisted the US government is.

So,evidence may exist that aliens and their highly advanced technology are real. Potentially, this may be a turning point in all human history - but he is obsessed with fighting China above that.

Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 25 2020 19:00 utc | 233

Mark2 @231,

I'm confused, am I the power? and what truth again was being spoken by thumper?

also, you misspelled RESPECT. I mean, geez, Aretha even spelled it out for you in a song.

Posted by: lizard | Jul 25 2020 19:02 utc | 234

@ 221 lizard... just catching up on the comments here.... i don't agree with this professor you quote....

The Color of Justice: Racial and Ethnic Disparity in State Prisons

you might have recalled a month or two back where i was talking about the book i read called 'solitary' by albert woodfox... i would encourage you to read it... 2019... maybe it is at the library... talks about angola prison in louisiana.. it was a plantation before becoming a prison, but they kept the same basic ideology right into the 70's... i think the facts run counter to what the prof in your quote @ 221 state..

Posted by: james | Jul 25 2020 19:24 utc | 235

@ NemesisCalling #190 "Trump could get reelected"

Trump will be reelected on a 'Law & Order' Campaign

They are deliberately stoking the protests to become violent.

By the time the election gets here the public will be hollering for Martial Law & putting down the violent protesters.

Posted by: JohnSays | Jul 25 2020 19:42 utc | 236

Posted by: chu teh | Jul 24 2020 17:20 utc | 149

Interesting. The requirement that hospitals treat patients who can’t afford treatment perhaps originated in the 1946 Hill-Burton Act, legislation passed by the Truman administration. (I knew a younger generation Hill.) The Act attempted to increase the number of hospitals in the country and beds per capita by providing matching loans etc. to building projects. In return the hospitals were required to provide so many hours of clinic care to people who could not afford to pay. Lower-income communities had difficulty meeting the requirement to show the ability to function without going into the red and so did not benefit much; and there was no enforcement mechanism for the requirement to serve all clinic patients regardless of ability to pay until a handful of patients sued in the early 1970s.

What you describe shows how easy it was for the wealthier and for-profit hospitals to avoid their responsibility to treat patients in need under the Act; and the harmful consequences.

As a high schooler I was a “candy striper” in one of those underfunded, overrun community hospitals — in Pasadena, California. It was where poor people, many African American, went to die after not having had much if any health care all their lives, among other things. Very horrible to show up to volunteer work and find somebody dead in their bed. It happened more than several times. I was 14 and 15 years old. It was part of the service program of the Blue Bird —> Camp Fire Girl —> Horizon Club/Candy Striper girls program during the 1950s and 1960s in usa.

Physicians’ AMA opposed universal health care for so many decades. Now the entire system has been financialized (mechanism for looting) instead of universalized (mechanism for delivering public health care).

Yes, and here we are.

Posted by: suzan | Jul 25 2020 19:57 utc | 237

dh | Jul 24 2020 21:39 utc | 186

I have no idea. You tell me.

I read that there were people wandering around near protests, who did not seem to be attached to any group but were breaking the odd window and were unwilling to talk to anyone.
They sounded odd and rather as though they could be APs. I don't know they were. It would make more sense for an AP to set fire to the precinct building than for "peaceful" demonstrators to do so.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 25 2020 19:59 utc | 238


I didn’t say I agreed with the a quote, the point is one viewpoint is sacrosanct, and the other can’t even be expressed without fear of personal consequences.

Posted by: lizard | Jul 25 2020 20:05 utc | 239

lizard @Jul25 20:05 #239

Bullshit lizard.

You accepted that anonymous POV without question. And there's plenty of reason to question it. Starting with the fact that it's anonymous.

And ever since you're been trying to cover your lizard tracks.

See the last part of my comment @227 for more.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 25 2020 20:12 utc | 240

@38 Who knows? Some people only emerge at protest time to express themselves. Could be psychopaths. Or part time vandals. Or just the kind of folk who write on toilet walls and destroy bus shelters.

Posted by: dh | Jul 25 2020 20:17 utc | 241

This is an interesting devolpment ———
Army Veterans now join the front line defending ‘BLM protesters’ first we had Portland house wife’s now this ———

Also on this respected ‘Veterans Today’ site is yet another video of police un-called for brutality! Against a women in front of her kids.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 25 2020 20:19 utc | 242

I think there's an important conversation to have about race relations, authoritarianism, and international relations.

I think different viewpoints are important for that conversation.

But if the conversation is going to be worthwhile, participants have to understand what is really going on and avoid spewing what is clearly agitprop and propaganda.


Posted by: ja | Jul 25 2020 20:20 utc | 243


@Jul25 20:20 #243 is my comment.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 25 2020 20:21 utc | 244

Richard Steven Hack | Jul 25 2020 1:27 utc | 201

You will discover that the US neocons don't care about any of that. Neither does Israel.

That is hardly a 'discovery'! The point is though, the US Military does care. Hence the lack of attacks on Iran. They have done the war-games and they know the probable outcomes of real-world attacks.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 25 2020 20:36 utc | 245

@ 239 lizard.... okay - thanks.. fair enough....

on a related note, i really believe we are in the dying days of the american empire... andre barbault suggests 2032 as the clear turning point and dominance of china becoming very clear and apparent... the way this is going, i have to agree.. unintended consequences of a collection of actions, or non actions on the part of the usa and friends is leading to what was cultivated back in the 70s.... it might be a fast downhill slope from here..

Posted by: james | Jul 25 2020 20:59 utc | 246

Jackrabbit | Jul 25 2020 17:10 utc | 230

I still think that Skripal was the real primary source if only because it explains what has happened to him.

What did happen to him and his daughter? Have either of them surfaced?

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 25 2020 21:09 utc | 247

Noteworthy! I wonder if it is true? Seems like "Life imitating art"! (If it is.)

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 25 2020 21:36 utc | 248

US cops killed in the line of duty and breakdown 2019. Slightly less than 2018.

Some time back, there was a video of a cop shooting a twelve year old kid carrying a toy gun. All part and parcel of US rights to carry guns.
Other videos show straight out murder of unarmed suspects. At the most cops get a smack on the wrist...

Last time I looked US had the highest number per hundred thousand under incarceration in the world, apart from some tiny country I had never heard of.

A very minor crime and a person becomes a convicted felon undifferentiated with major crime that follows him or her through life.

My great Great grandfather was transported to Australia as a convict. Convicted of cattle stealing with prior convictions. He the same as most transported convicts of the time received ticket of leave shortly after arrival and several years later a pardon as did most others. Very very few of them re offended. Life was hard but it was a new start, they were given opportunity.

In the US, black culture cannot be the same as white culture because they have different histories. Poor areas where opportunity is limited will also develop there own culture no matter the skin color. In the US particularly but more and more so in the US west, you need money to get more than a basic education. Health care...
Law and order aimed at reform rather than punishment alongside opportunity is what is required. Law and order aimed at reform would separate minor offenders that stuff up when their young from those that are a menace to everyone. But the opportunity must be there.

US went into extreme capitalism in the McCarthy years, reinforced by the collapse of the Soviet Union. US cannot fix itself because that requires some socialist measures.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 25 2020 21:58 utc | 249

Peter Au1 249
Just to say I really enjoyed that comment.
By chance it fitted in with an interesting debate I’v just been listening to on bbc radio 4. Called the ‘moral maze’ a relivant descusion on a subject I know interests you greatly which I share your views. I am sure you and ALL here would find it interesting ! ‘WAS THE BRITISH EMPIRE A GOOD THING’
No link but track it down on the net.
What did I learn———
When slavery was abolished the compensation payed to slave owners, was invested in introducing opium to China and colonisation of Australia !
What this adds to the debate I’ll need to get back to you on that.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 25 2020 22:28 utc | 250

@221 lizard

Yes, I completely agree with that essay.

Would the content be construed as unpopular? Indeed. The prof. was smart to stay anonymous.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 25 2020 22:33 utc | 251

@251 Hi NC. I see you now have a Wall of Vets helping out. That should be a good development. I guess they can keep the Federal agents away from the protesters and the protesters away from the building. Let's hope they are there for the long haul.

Posted by: dh | Jul 25 2020 22:41 utc | 252

Foolishholdman @ 248
Wow how did I miss that ! Thanks for that link. If you missed it you need to see it.
If half of that is true its dynamite.
I repeat ———
Veterans Today is a respected site..

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 25 2020 23:05 utc | 253

Mark2 250

US offshored its manufacturing.
The British offshored their poor. Four sets of my great great grandparents, apart from the crim, were sent to Australia on British emigration schemes for the poor in the 1850's. All bar one - who could roughly sign her name on her marriage registration were illiterate - and signed marriage, birth and death registrations with a cross.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 25 2020 23:06 utc | 254

Military spokesman:

American fighter jets fly daily patrols near the base, Al-Tanf, where 150 to 200 U.S. troops train Syrian fighters, known as Maghawir al Thawra, who are fighting the Islamic State.

Captain Urban said the encounter on Thursday was conducted at “a safe distance of approximately 1,000 meters” and was done to “ensure the safety of coalition personnel.”

“Once the F-15 pilot identified the aircraft as a Mahan Air passenger plane,” Captain Urban added, “the F-15 safely opened distance from the aircraft.” He said the encounter was done “in accordance with international standards.”

International standards:

For a commercial airliner (as the question asked), separation will usually be at least 3 miles laterally, or 1,000 feet vertically. In the enroute environment -- at higher operating speeds above 10,000 feet and based on the type of Radar and distance from the antennae -- a 5 mile rule is applied laterally. This is true in most but not all situations. (There are exceptions -- not listed in my source)

Note also the "or": it is allowed (and in fact rather common) for two jets to cross path if they have 1,000 feet vertical separation.

For those not familiar with metric or imperial system: 1000 meters is much less than 3 miles, roughly 4900 meters.

For those searching for the meaning of "rule-based world system": rules change daily, without notice. It is your duty to observe and obey.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 25 2020 23:08 utc | 255

@ 252 nemesis calling.. read my link @ 235... you're the real contrarian - or canary in the coal mine as the case may be!!

Posted by: james | Jul 25 2020 23:19 utc | 256

I may have missed it but the Trump brownshirt enforcers being sent to Portland etc are private "military".

My friend in Portland says this:
ZTI is a private company that provides armed and other security-related personnel to their clients which include Homeland Security, the Dept. of Defense, and an alphabet soup of other US government agencies. It’s on their own website (
So let’s be clear, these “federal” agents are basically mercenaries, paid by the government to intimidate, threaten and even attack Americans on American soil.
Armed private contractors like ZTI and Blackwater ( are normally hired in war zones like Iraq and Afghanistan. Btw it's not supposed to be "normal" to do that either because there are international laws about conflict engagement. But regardless, they are now operating here in the United States--and paid for with our own tax dollars.
We are paying them to fight us.

Desperation seems to be the motivation and I don't see it being successful.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 26 2020 2:34 utc | 257

Another report on Portland is the following link about a 17 year old high school student reporting on the protests

Q&A: The Fearless High School Newspaper Editor Covering Portland Protests

One of her parents are driving her up to Portland from about an hour south every night...and staying with her

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 26 2020 2:51 utc | 258


I was looking at what was going on and thinking brown or blackshirts. Just been watching the video of the freedom fighters of China. No different to the freedom fighters of Chechnya, Syria, Libya ect. US needs some freedom fighters to throw in the mix. Complete with black flags, suicide vests and car bombs. Send everything home.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 26 2020 3:12 utc | 259

Psycohistorian @ 258 & 259
Good observation well put.
The whole dam thing is all most on a level of comedy now. If it wasn’t for the local tragidy And large scale ramifications.
Catch 22 meets key stone cops.
Is this a pre-election campaign psycop. And what the hell is the high tec spy plane upto ?
PeterAU1 @ 260
You forgot the White helmets, compare the fake outrage over the Syrian chlorine fake attack with the clouds of tear gas and pepper spray at Portland. Trump sanctioned ! The mans truly lost the plot over this one.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 26 2020 6:10 utc | 260

If any want to watch Saturday night Portland protest via twitter real time there is the Twitter feed from the high school journalist in my comment #259 and

Empire is coming home with its bag of tricks to show Americans just who is in charge.....cue the pic of Trump with the baseball bat.....

When does the killing start................................................?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 26 2020 6:39 utc | 261

Donald Trump and Joe Biden are competing to see
who is harshest on China

The U.S. election is shaping up as a contest between
which candidate hates China more:

What does this say about the candidates
...people ???

Posted by: denk | Jul 26 2020 6:42 utc | 262

Below is a link to a story about one of the leaf blower dads that was arrested by the Feds in Portland who is an attorney......

Attorney dad with leaf blower arrested by Federal officers

Tonight they tried initially to overwhelm the protesters with tear gas/pepper spray and are using blowers as well it is almost midnight and I am off to bed.....they will have to carry on w/o me.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 26 2020 6:54 utc | 263

|The only war the U.S. of A. has ever quickly and willingly admitted defeat and surrendered has been the War on Poverty. A portent of the future.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 26 2020 11:32 utc | 264

VeteransToday is about as respectable as that clown Alex Jones


Posted by: Lurk | Jul 26 2020 11:45 utc | 265

There be telling us next the leaf blowers were made in Russia China and Iran.
So let’s see... Trump fell out with Russia China and Iran, a virus escaped from from ft Detrick causing a world wide pandemic with millions losing their life’s. World wide.
Now trump picks a fight with Afro-Americans ( how many millions). Kills off a whole bunch of his core elderly voters.
But veterans aren’t reliable becouse ‘we voted trump’
Paranoid psychosis is that a thing in the USA ?
Dam you jus couldn’t make this s**t up could I laugh or cry ?
What’s next weed wackers?
A lone gun man in a nearby tower block with twenty bumb- stock automatics simultaneously firing from different windows ?
Stay safe out there peeps the loonys took over the asylum !!
Ok how’s Trumps presidency going and who’s gunna win the next election.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 26 2020 12:24 utc | 266

next, leaf blowers will be declared weapons of terrorism.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 26 2020 13:04 utc | 267

Pretzelattack @ 268
Take a leaf blower with us to blow away virus ! ( I claim that intellectual copy right )
But being serious now—- The people in charge of that Portland situation (apocalyptic image) their the ones ‘in charge’ of the pandemic.
That should be a major major concern for every man women and child on this planet.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 26 2020 14:01 utc | 268

@ Mark2

Time to start taking your meds again, brother. Too many incoherent postings, too little substative analysis.

BTW that veteranstoday article that you praised so much also made the claim that Portland AntiFa is Portland police provocateurs. Did you even read that or were you too busy drivelranting?

Posted by: Lurk | Jul 26 2020 15:26 utc | 269

i have no doubt there are agent provocateurs around a number of cities with ongoing protests, they want another project move scenario, and they need to justify that kind of response. the fbi use that tactic, the cops do, i'm sure dhs or whoever runs these shadowy unidentified federal goons would have no compunction.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 26 2020 16:08 utc | 270

Olivia de Havilland, the last surviving star of 'Gone With the Wind' star, dies at 104.

RT headline.

Another addition to the cancel movement? Be very careful what you wish for.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 26 2020 16:31 utc | 271

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 24 2020 17:56 utc | 152 :

“any tips on low blood pressure ?”

Here’s a lay view of what you probably already know, with one exception, K+.

Make sure you get enough potassium (K+) in your diet. Ask your doctor, but ~ 4.7 grams of pottasium are needed daily. (A banana has ~ 500 mg) Could it be that the ratio of NaCl / K+ in the blood is key? rather than the absolute amount of K+ ? Dunno. Too much NaCl increases BP so eat no more than 2-3 grams NaCl per day unless you have genetics that conserve salt and then eat only 1 gram. Or at least that's what I've been taught.

Other modifiable behaviours are the usual:

Exercise which increases the elastisity of vessels and increases NO.
Obesity Obese people are at high risk for high BP (and severe complications from others ailments) so maintain a fit weight.
Alcohol constricts arterioles and stimulates cortisols, raising BP long term (although lowers it while drinking).
Caffeine causes short term increase in BP so don’t drink caffeine all day.
Sleep Inadequate or disturbed sleep increases BP so take care with screen color and timing before sleeping (and don't listen to idiots and morons.).
Diabetes increases the risk of high BP so keep this well managed.

If your momma was malnourished while pregnant or you were malnourished during your first years of life then high BP is more likely and not modifiable like the above risk factors. It is treatable with drugs.

What’s often not discussed is role of politico-economic social systems in providing necessary infrastructure and institutions to cultivate a healthy people. About 1/3 of the world’s people suffer from high blood pressure. Each society has its own history and reasons for the malaise. Some do better than others while a few cause widespread harm.

Best to be born to a well-nourished mom who can feed you well, and to be born to a society that actually cares about all its people.

Posted by: suzan | Jul 28 2020 1:55 utc | 272

For y'all claiming there's no way to edit your comments, try the 'preview' button to the right of the 'post' button. It works :^)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | Jul 30 2020 20:36 utc | 273

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