Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 23, 2020

Open Thread 2020-58

News & views ...

Posted by b on July 23, 2020 at 14:04 UTC | Permalink

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Portland mayor tear-gassed by federal officers, warns 'somebody's going to die' during chaotic protests

Some activists said they were worried the fight over federal agents overshadowed their demands for change and vowed to keep the pressure on Wheeler and city officials. One mother pointed out that Wheeler showed up to the protests only after other white mothers attending the demonstrations over the weekend were tear-gassed....

“It’s hard to breathe, it’s a lot harder to breathe than I thought,” Wheeler told The Washington Post after he was tear-gassed. “This is abhorrent. This is beneath us.”...

"President Trump needs to focus on coronavirus and get his troops out of the city. My biggest fear is that somebody's going to die," Wheeler said. "I want them to leave. This is going to come to a city near you if we don't stop it."

Duh... That's exactly the point.Trump needs an excuse for martial law if the election doesn't go his way.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 24 2020 6:08 utc | 101

Don't know if this is true, but if it is and the source is who it might be...welcome to payback, Israel...

Two more cyber-attacks hit Israel's water system
First attack hit in April when hackers tried to modify water chlorine levels, officials said.

And quote from this asshole in the article:
Lots of “accidents” all over the country. Iran seems to be very unlikely lately — Dmitri Alperovitch (@DAlperovitch) July 19, 2020

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 24 2020 6:16 utc | 102

Last one...

An Air Force Special Operations Surveillance Plane Is Lurking Near Portland During Federal Crackdown

Keep in mind, if you're in Portland protests, these guys can read your cell calls and a lot more.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 24 2020 6:18 utc | 103

We cannot impose quarantine and testing and eradicate the virus because we are not a "police state" like China.
"Victorian coronavirus cases who don't answer their phone to contact tracers will soon get a visit from the ADF"

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 24 2020 6:41 utc | 104

"I want people to know I do not believe that there are any protesters in Portland that are starting fires, that are creating chaos. I absolutely believe that it is police action and they sending saboteurs and provocateurs into peaceful crowds so that they can justify their inhumane treatment of people who are standing up for their right." -- Portland City Commissioner Jo Ann Hardesty

That would be business as usual. Gee, why am I not surprised?

Posted by: blues | Jul 24 2020 6:46 utc | 105

Oh and not to forget:

LEXX (Ep.47) "Magic Baby" [UNCUT VERSION] (2001)

Posted by: blues | Jul 24 2020 7:03 utc | 106

she nails this one. the "two" parties going at it hammer and tongs on what to name military bases, while in perfect agreement on giving the u.s. military 740 billion dollars to waste in the coming year. the "trump is a putin agent" democrats stand behind trump 100%, and the "wants peace " trump is happy to accept the support. note, if you close those hundreds of unneeded and unwanted military bases, you don't have to worry about what to call them.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 24 2020 7:16 utc | 107


Renaming is contagious it seems. Coon cheese is a well known name here in oz but it is now to be renamed. No longer will it be good for catching black mice....

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 24 2020 7:20 utc | 108

@108 yeah, not like there are any important issues to address.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 24 2020 7:22 utc | 109

Back in the younger days that was my mates joke. He was part aboriginal, part Indian. I guess he would get done for racism if he said that now.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 24 2020 7:23 utc | 110

We come at the problem from different baselines. I guess its not a matter of who is right or wrong but what will occur. Through my life I have read a lot of the history of war. War is history as that on the whole is what brings about changes in history.
Anglo and the more recent anglosphere have dominated for a number of centuries.
China through heads down bums up work ethic are coming to dominate tech, manufacturing and economy. The new center of the world. That is inconceivable to anglos who look down on Asians. The history of war is not a history of common sense, risk aversion and so forth. Many times it is a history of insanity where rulers have brought destruction on themselves and their people. Regards to you Grieved. More like you and there would be no wars.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 24 2020 8:38 utc | 111

Suzan @ 58
Thanks for your input & link @ 58. I’d gone to bed so only now spotted it.
That link is a ——— standard whistle blower rebuttal, only serving to confirm the original aligations. Think assange ! Those rebuttals are very useful to confirm the important’s of the link, and urgent need to cover up. That link is a perfect example, no facts, seeking to put the debate to blaming staff there. Rather than curupt manigment admin politicians. Avoiding putting this incident into the context.
Thanks for reinforcing my original view.
I do have a experience of this from 30 years ago personally , I blew the whistle on Portsmouth VA hospital U.K. a close freand was being murdered in there ! I saved her. nearly cost me my life. Unlawful killing of elderly people, is there a term for that. google that hospital case !! Be prepared to be very very shocked !!
Me I’m an old campaigning warrior.
PS only 900 were murders but that’s an understatement.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 24 2020 8:57 utc | 112

Posted by: vk | Jul 23 2020 20:00 utc | 29
The silliness award goes to VK
"Turkey keeping the circa 2.9-3.5 million refugees trapped in Turkish territory (probably Anatolia)"

Aside from Thrace in the far North West corner, all of Turkey is on the Anatolain penninsula :). You may as well say "...trapped in Turkish territory (probably Turkey)"

Unforunately, your ending hypothesis is based on zero actual evidence. Perhaps, you should try to collect some. I don't have any, but would be interested. Anyway will kep reading to see if anything substantial turns up.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jul 24 2020 9:00 utc | 113

Posted by: vk | Jul 23 2020 20:29 utc | 33: Concernign Syrian Refugees in Turkish schools

According to this three years ago (Hurriyet is usually reliable)

"Syrian refugee children in Turkey are set to receive compulsory Turkish education, according to new regulations imposed by the Turkish Education Ministry, which has also decided that Syrian children should be directed to official schools."

According to TRT (Turkish gov't broadcaster) in 2018: "There are at least 1.5 million Syrian refugee children in Turkey, and over 610,000 are enrolled in school. But according to Turkey's ministry of national Education, more than 350,000 Syrian children are not getting any formal education."

Turkish Times for same year claims: "The propagandize enrolment rate among Syrian interloper children in Turkey has reached scarcely 63 percent, interjection to a efforts of Turkey and a general community. Minister of National Education İsmet Yılmaz pronounced that some 611,524 out of a sum 976,200 school-age Syrian children have enrolled during schools in Turkey."

Istanbul has a lot of Arabic speaking kids in the streets, it seems to me. So two years ago about 2/3 of school age children have been getting their education. I haven't any gov't stats for the 2019 school year.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jul 24 2020 9:19 utc | 114

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 24 2020 0:13 utc | 57

"Re Syrian refugees - My take on that was the biggest exodus of refugees through the Turkey border and towards Europe took place with the jihadist takeover of northern Syria. 2013-2015"

Yes, Ankara had an open door policy then, expecting the war to end reasonably quickly. You the UNHCR has a breakdown:

It has pretty much flattened out since 2018.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jul 24 2020 9:33 utc | 115

My post at 110 got me thinking how things progress.
My not politically correct mate when we pulled out the cheese would say Coon cheese catches black mice. He was a bit of and original. Would bullshit anyone, fight anyone, shag anything that resembled a forked stick. Worked for a security company for a bit, now a tax collector for the ATO here in oz. My brother still keeps in touch with him and gives him shit. Brother liked fighting a bit too .

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 24 2020 9:35 utc | 116

Here are two interesting articles that take a deeper look into the spike of Covid 19 cases in the US.

Posted by: Down South | Jul 24 2020 9:35 utc | 117

Laughing all the way to the bank in Chengdu

Not spam b, but the Hijab will come into fashion in Florida to stop the China ( According to Pompeo) Virus, which is a corona variant of the Spanish Flu virus that originated on a military base in Kansas, from Chickens.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 24 2020 10:12 utc | 118

The Euro whores. Bum up and heads down plying their trade.

"Urgent need for EU countries to diversify 5G suppliers, EU Commission says"

Couldn't be bothered linking the pornography.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 24 2020 10:15 utc | 119

Lizard @ 2

I rarely enjoy a lot of poetry but you hit the nail with that one, bravo.

Posted by: Paul | Jul 24 2020 10:30 utc | 120

@Paul, thank you for the feedback, much appreciated.

@Peter AU1, I see why you aren't as angry as I am--you are a defeatist who has already given up and are resigned to just passively watch as things unfold.

locally I have actually seen my writing have an impact. a redevelopment agency is hiring a communication consultant because people like me who have become activists against gentrification are winning the narrative battle. also, because of my writing, a development director moving to Montana from Florida didn't like how I connected him to a Florida consulting firm getting lucrative contracts here in Montana. he ultimately didn't take the job "for family reasons".

there are things anyone here can do locally to have an impact. but if you've already given up, then you won't see that opportunities DO EXIST to fight back.

Posted by: lizard | Jul 24 2020 11:23 utc | 121

lizard @121 <-- What this poster says about local action is true, though ultimately that alone is not enough. I've had some impact preventing my local municipal power company from being bought out by a massively corrupt and slimy corporation that wanted to capitalize on our city having some of the best maintained power infrastructure in the region. As capitalist scumbags they could go years without putting any money into maintenance and just suck on the sweet, free profits from captive customers for years to come. That's a deal any capitalist would love. Unfortunately for them, me and a bunch of loudmouths demanded that part of the sales deal of the utility be that the buyer has to invest just as much of their profits back into maintaining the infrastructure as the city utility currently does. Since that percentage is 100%, and since the demand was catching attention from the other residents of the city who otherwise didn't understand the difference between municipal and private ownership of their utilities, the buyers backed out and one of the more corrupt of the city commissioners promoting the sale lost the next election.

Communism for the win in Redneckistan!

The efforts by me and the other annoying loudmouths to get the city to implement fiber optic Internet as a publicly owned municipal utility isn't moving ahead so quickly, but it is moving ahead. More miles of cable are being laid and more areas hooked up, but not as fast as I would like.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 24 2020 13:01 utc | 122

@ Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jul 24 2020 9:19 utc | 114

Your information only explains the land routes (through the Balkans), which the German minister had also talked about. But they don't explain the sea routes outside the Aegean, nor Turkey's sudden boldness in the Eastern Mediterranean.

Posted by: vk | Jul 24 2020 13:29 utc | 123

William Gruff @ 122
Good story, that’s classic people power. I think it’s that sense of achievement a lot of us can share, a sense of righteous empowerment.
David winning over Goliath.
I know that is where my heart is.
Opposite would be might over right.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 24 2020 13:41 utc | 124

US economy stalling, US dollar at increased risk

This is a very important fact that differentiates this recession from the 2008 meltdown. In 2008, there was a race to the USD, so that the USD became stronger, not weaker, thus also strengthening the USA as a financial superpower.

Now it's different, as the USD is also weakening alongside the overall American economy.

Besides the fact that China is building up an alternative financial infrastructure, and that the European Peninsula is, for the first time ever, showing some lost of faith in their metropolis (the USA), you have that the USA lost one ninth of its gold reserves in just four months. That's not the end of the world, but it's something - specially for an institution that many thought was untouchable some years ago:

China & US Power

Posted by: vk | Jul 24 2020 13:54 utc | 125

Some COVID bathos from Oz.

Victoria has instituted a 2nd lockdown which is being very strictly enforced. Now, you need a 'legal' excuse to trespass outside outside your residential postcode. There's so much whining helplessness on social media and in communications between citizens and broadcasters & newspapers, that SBS polled people in the street on the effect the Surprise Lockdown is having on their lives.

Long story short...No-one is happy about it but my Academy Award goes to the woman who said...

"It's terrible. I'm starting to miss people I don't even like."

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 24 2020 13:59 utc | 126

Australian Lady @ 78
Asked my view on Putin and Russian Federation ?
Hi sorry for the delayed reply, life just got in the way for half a day. Plus I wanted to ‘mull over’ the question and reply !
You can garrentee Putin won’t be a saint. But who is.
Pointless us thinking he’s our knight in shinning armour, he ain’t.
He is the leader of Russia .
I respect how he has done that job, and respect his geo-politics. A very shrewd tactician !
I envy Russia it’s strong steady fair leader.
Trump and U.K. Boris Johnson aren’t fit to clean his boots, frankly.
From my view he is very important as a counter balence to the 2 above mentioned clowns, along with China & Iran, without those 3 acting as a break facist U.K. / US/ Israel win, were all up the creak ! With out him
——— I haven’t noted you name before I’d love a few details and viewpoints please.
Oh and have you already got a partner ?
Nah jus jokeing.
We need much more input from women on this site. This place is way way to ‘blokey’ for my liking !
Chip in and put us right.
Thanks and respect.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 24 2020 14:28 utc | 127

@125 vk
Re: decline of USD

That is a very long term process, generational. I'd expect that other aspects of the US-China competition would produce tangible changes to the world far sooner.

Exchange rates themselves are managed by the central banks - in particular the rate-of-change is actively limited. Neither the ECB nor the Fed will allow extreme disruptions in either direction. (but moves on the order of 50% have happened, for example EURUSD peaked at nearly 1.6 in 2008).

Likewise, the PBOC (China's central bank) pegs to limit the RMB's change vs a reference point that is a mix of primarily Dollar and Euro, and perhaps Yen. Why would they want their currency to appreciate? They don't.

I would keep an eye on the total amounts of trade in various currencies. The EU publishes this for example, vs imports, exports, and broken down for rough categories of goods. (in particular energy is one that should be separated). Anyway, the EU only does half its foreign trade in Euros, the USD dominates the rest. And this is not only in energy. Keep an eye on that. Don't see it changing yet.

What is happening now, besides covid of course, might have a lot to do with super low energy prices, which reduce the amount of $$ needed all around.

In many years, belt-road countries might do bilateral trade in something other than USD. But much of the world is such with USD, including South America of course, and India, Korea, and Japan are all big ones. It would be interesting if failure to deal with covid knocks out nationalist govts in India and Japan but that may be wishful thinking.

Posted by: ptb | Jul 24 2020 14:30 utc | 128

At SST Yeah, Right continues to talk truth to power, with a healthy dose of sarcasm.

Naturally, that doesn't change the 'power' but it does reveal them. As we can see by pl's ad hominem:

Yeah, Right

Sounds like a massive case of penis envy. If it bothers you so much why don't you move to a big country where you won't feel slighted. How about China?


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 24 2020 14:34 utc | 129

Oops. Forgot the link to pl ad hominem.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 24 2020 14:36 utc | 130

Pompeo’s comment about Frankenstien merely illustrates how ignonorant he is.

The U.S.A. didn’t make China, the Chinese did. I find comments such as his comforting. Anyone as delusional as he is in the higher echelons of the U.S. administration means that it’s ‘ highly likely ‘ they all are.

And the Chinese are smart as well as cunning. They know very well the ethos and mentality of their adversary.

You won’t change China Mike, all you will do is destroy the U.S. more rapidly.

Posted by: Beibdnn. | Jul 24 2020 14:54 utc | 131

Libya-Italy road open and kicking, some 10,000 arrived in the latest weeks.
Erdogan preparing to open up full if he doesn't get what he wants.

Posted by: Mina | Jul 24 2020 15:07 utc | 132

PeterAU1 @81: Trump's focus from early on has been building up the US military..."

That's not only his focus, it is the focus of the Congress, specifically the Senate, which could not even pass a bill sponsored by Sanders to reduce the military budget by a measly 10%. Both party members shot that one down.

I was happy to see that NM's Senator Udall voted for the bill - but the also Democratic Senator Heinrich did not - shame on him!

Posted by: juliania | Jul 24 2020 15:08 utc | 133

@ Posted by: Beibdnn. | Jul 24 2020 14:54 utc | 131

Not to mention the fact that, if the USA hadn't separated China from the Soviet camp and opened its vital space, American capitalism (and, therefore, Western) would've collapsed much earlier - maybe even resulting in the USA losing the Cold War altogether. Keynesianism was already showing clear signs of exhaustion by the end of the 1960s: the USD-Gold standard had to be hurriedly abandoned in 1971 and Nixon had to make amends with Mao in 1972. Both events are interconnected: they had nothing to do with China, and everything to do with the inner contradictions of American (and Western) capitalism.

His description of China also shows American ignorance towards the scientific concept of socialism and communism.

Speaking of ignorance by the American intelligentsia, this new piece came out to the NYT today. Enjoy the circus:

The World Is Changing. Here’s How the U.S. Can Stay No. 1

If mr. Joffe is everything America has to offer, then China and Russia may be at peace.

Posted by: vk | Jul 24 2020 15:12 utc | 134

“My friends, forgive me but I have to mention how tired I am of hearing that the US is trying to go to war with Iran. You just can't say that until you explain why it turned down the perfect war it already had 6 months ago.”
Posted by: Grieved | Jul 24 2020 3:49 utc | 87

Grieved, I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired. Every time anybody breaks wind, there is hoard of people coming here and elsewhere promoting / predicting ‘War with Iran.’ It’s their go to MO. Yes, why did US give up such a perfect opportunity to attack Iran? Iran gave it the perfect excuse. On January 8th, everyone here was on a bandwagon saying that Iranian attacks on bases, was Kabuki theatre. Had to bring their attention to the fact that this was a direct attack on the empire by Iran. No need for proxies or other tricks. Can anyone here name a country that last attacked the empire, directly, and got away with it?

“I agree with your description of the US backing down from a "hot war" with Iran because of MAD backing from Russia/China.”
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 24 2020 4:42 utc | 90

Have to disagree on this one psychohistorian. Iran has plenty MAD capability on its own. No need for help from the outside. With current ballistic / drone capability, Iran can blow any shit up within a 1200 KM range. Not to mention IRGC, or allies that could do its bidding throughout the region.
And yet again, no need for nukes, for the kooks that believe Iran needs one.
[previous comment not directed at you, psychohistorian, just kooks]

Before attacking Iraq, war-games were played to the tune of $250 Million, called Millennium Challenge 2002 (I think something like 10,000 personnel participated). The esteemed Van Riper showed that the empire will have it’s arse handed to it, if it attacked Iran.
That was 18 long years ago, when Iran didn’t have the infrastructure / technology that it does today. I recommend looking it up.

On a June 4th posting here, I finally found the brief words to put this one (War with Iran) to bed. Since then, I see that the ‘War with Iran’ trolls are couching their war predictions in if-then-elses, before the war gets started. If Hezbollah this, or Israel that, then…

For those whom haven’t seen these words, here they are, again. Everyone else apologies for repetition.

The problem of ‘The war with Iran’ IS NOT ‘The war with Iran.’
The problem of ‘The war with Iran’ IS ‘How to stop — The war with Iran?’
Surely, Iran will fight to a nuclear death, if it has to. Once a nuke is detonated over Tehran, follow up runs will be, on Isfahan, Mashhad, and Shiraz. From there, Moscow, St. Petersburg, Beijing, and Shanghai.
Whomever advocates for this, is advocating for end times. Nuclear annihilation of the planet. Rapture, that is.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jul 24 2020 15:29 utc | 135

I agree with Grieved. The US was starting one war after another with virtually no resistance until they went after Syria and ran into the Ruskies. None since. Remember they were to take out 7 countries in 5 years after 911. They were not even considering that some other guys with muscles might show up because none had.
That act is over unless they want to commit suicide.

Posted by: arby | Jul 24 2020 15:30 utc | 136

So we are now told that the virus is here to stay (Fauci, CNN, Tony Blair...) which make me wonder about the poor countries who need tourism (many have opened up in the latest weeks). Will the virus be yet another avatar of Western destruction of everything non-Western, its projected nihilism?
The poor will come close to the spreading Westerners for their dollars, and now die physically from it (because of their lack of infrastructure) in addition to have been culturally affected for decades...

Posted by: Mina | Jul 24 2020 15:31 utc | 137

Grieved @ 87

Your points about the terror experienced by the military when Trump murdered Iranian general Soleimani and the Iraqi generals escorting him are worth emphasis. What we need to continually bear in mind is that the US doesn't make stuff any longer, and the working class has suffered mightily for that reason. Their jobs simply went, starting with the Bill Clinton tradeoffs on social welfare and big money aggrandizement. The military industrial complex Eisenhower warned about simply morphed into a bank-supported behemoth, and that was what we in the US 'made' for all future prognostications of wealth, with the ptb happily telling us that the jobs were never coming back. My own younger son almost, almost! went to work for Raytheon -- I can't tell you how many times I gave thanks that did not happen, even though it meant he went jobless and incurred a mounting, ever present student loan debt because that job did not materialize. I'm so happy he opted for being a poor peon, took on work at a small organic farm and learned to grow fantastic tomatoes instead.

I will place the blame for this pandemic, though we can't say definitely (but we will eventually be able to pin it down I feel sure) with the nasty labs that have proliferated since the US was thwarted in its claim of Syrian malfeasance with respect to chemical weaponry, along with the overwhelming opposition to genetically modified seeds and foodstuffs. This in combination with global climate change thanks to the pollution being still in effect so that growing our own foodstuffs is harder to do than it ever was - I can't even use the rainwater, for instance, to water my garden. It accumulates oily gunk in the containers I used to collect it, so the lifegiving aspects of that formerly helpful process are now negated.

It's not 'we humans' that have overpolluted our world, it's huge conglomerates that pay off the politicians so they will keep turning a blind eye. Shame on them all!

Posted by: juliania | Jul 24 2020 15:31 utc | 138

The US doesn't mind hiring suicide bombers, but is very loathe to a "do it yourself" attitude.

Posted by: arby | Jul 24 2020 15:38 utc | 139

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 23 2020 15:01 utc | 3

Rich, you read the article? What does a tiny, tiny wheel in the overall professional tax avoiding machine suggest to you about the man?

Posted by: moon | Jul 24 2020 15:45 utc | 140

snake @ 47 How does covid 19 spread in third world & under developed countries where there is no 5G?
by: ted01 @ 79

Thank you for the question. Infection spreads whenever both infection can happen and infection does happen.
host + viron = viron controls something about the host <=unless that happens, no infection.

Viral Infection takes at least.. contact between the interacting parts (viron parts vs host parts) and a goal of the viron. which the host defends against, to reach a successful conclusion with respect to a host. Maybe the virus does not need to actually gain entry into the host to do its thing, but instead it could suck out of the host what it needs (like a mosquito, or it could inject an enzyme into the host and cause the host to make something the virus wants.

So infection needs to be defined in accord with the goal of the infecting agent.

That also means infection may not result in damage to the host. successful infection might go completely unnoticed by the host or it might make the host sick. or kill the host. or whatever. but we are not talking about the infection effect on the host, we leave that to physicians.

So the question "what is infection?"
is quite different from the impact the innocent host might encounter should the infection happen.

I presume you are inquiring about how does infection spread in a third world which has no RF?
Viral Infection does not need RF once competent virons find susceptible hosts, infection can sometimes happens. Until you asked I had not considered Rf to be an infectious agent, that question is left for another day, but my question about RF is concerned with it as a possible catalyst to assist or speed up infection by a virus. The literature including the EuPA merely make clear that RF can open one of the defenses living human cells have against infections by virus. The virus may have assistance from RF on its trip to accomplish infection in a human host. . Rf may be a catalyst..speed up or

Successful infection by the viron on the host is a must.. without infection there is no host problem.

So opportunity to infect (OTI) is a prerequisite to infection. What defines that opportunity is that: all of the elements must be present in the appropriate place and at the appropriate time and all appropriate other conditions are on-go, so that a viron seeking to infect a target can, actually negotiate from its outside location to the target system inside the host. That is, during infection time, each impediment (gate encountered) on the viron attempt to infect a host are at, for a point in time, possible for the viron to successfully negotiate.

I like to think of the challenge virons encounter as a system of gates which the viron must negotiate.

infection-free defending host => G1,> G2,> G3,>>>> Gn<=infecting viron seeking to infect host
> represents host defense, and < represents attacking viral assault on those defenses.

It is essential that none of the gates be so tightly sealed or so strong that the viron cannot with persistence negotiate the gate or strong arm its way past it, otherwise infection is impossible.

taking G3 to be the double membrane of living human cells, one can see why I think RF needs to be studied
because the EuPA and much of the literature I have read clearly says Rf opens pores in the membrane.

Posted by: snake | Jul 24 2020 16:00 utc | 141

Hey Mark2 @112

Agree the media link was standard wb rebuttal but don’t agree that it renders the original accusations believe-worthy accurate. As someone earlier responded, what went on in hospitals at the height of NYC’s epidemic crisis is mixed phenomena.

The epidemic suddenly forced facilities that were already understaffed and underfunded, due to the last decades of vampire attack on what used to be a public health system, into crisis. They were overrun. Community hospitals like Elmherst serve uninsured and low-income residents, people who’ve been most severely impacted by the for-profit system’s slow attempted murder, physical and spiritual, since the creation of the fiat usd in the early 1970s. Those hospitals are the worst hit despite hard work by some diligent staff and doctors. Little was empirically known about about how to treat the illness this spring in usa (as usan’s seemingly remained ignorant of the rich seam of information made available to the world public by the medics and scientists who dealt with the Wuhan outbreak.) So the outcome was as expected: horrendous and inhumane.

A clear-cut case of senioricide is what Sweden did with its policy in aged care homes. They implemented DNR (do not resuscitate) orders and administered only palliatives, letting people die, when a short few-days course of oxygen ( not on ventilator and not intubated, simple oxygen up the nose) could have saved lives. The palliatives have the effect of suppressing respiration, making breathing even more difficult. If you want a link, I could look it up. There’s an MD in Sweden campaigned to educate the gov and care homes to provide oxygen instead of pallliatives. He received push back saying staff in care homes were not capable of providing oxygen — too dangerous. He said his 6 year-old daughter can do it and the gas is not as dangerous, flamable, as they claim. He coined the term senior-icide for what was being done to the older generation there. All the better for the coffers of the state as neoliberalism sets in. It won’t have to support the oldest generations, normally in human society seen founts of wisdom.

There was an NYC ER head who committed suicide earlier this spring. Did you read about her? Evidently the stress was too much for her. I suppose she began to understand they had not understood the disease correctly enough to treat patients, that they had in fact caused much unnecessary death. Just my guess. I blame the system, the private financial for-profit system. Being a universal solvent dissolving social bonds, it has ruined society(ies).

The USG has committed sociocide in the ME as many on this blog discuss to various extents, destroying societies that were once thriving and intact. Usa’ns are finding out the same is happening here but with a different approach. As Lizard poeticized @2,

“…if they can’t make money
they’d rather see you dead.”

It is an institutional disease driven by monopoly finance capitalism. When some individuals get it, get how it is sociocidal, they are simply replaced with more cogs in the killing for-profit machine.

Personally I have avoided the so-called health care system here (usa) as much as possible, for many many years. As a young person I majored in chemistry and biology in undergrad school where I witnessed firsthand the ruthless competitiveness of some pre-med students. I was an advanced organic lab assistant to help pay my way and could see this up close. So I made a decision in my early 20s to be my own doctor and avoid the system if at all possible. I’m now in my sixties. So far, so good. I practiced/practice preventive measures — work hard, exercise, healthy food, much of which I grow, plenty of sleep, mental space (never watched tv and rarely see corporate media; i rely on people like b to process this for me), meditation, etc. When young I struck out to change the world and figuratively banged my head against a wall for decades. I was the only one harmed. If I cause no harm to others including the natural world and am able to provide an environment of sanity and care wherever I am, I now consider that doing well for me given my circumstances. Of course it is not enough.

Living inside the beast is like waiting for death to come. Some say death is like changing clothes. We must die as a society before we can enter a new life where relationships are tended with science understanding, gentleness, care and wisdom.

Posted by: suzan | Jul 24 2020 16:02 utc | 142

@Paul #38
New Zealand also has a very small number of international visitors. While there are 2.3M arrivals - how many are Australian or Kiwi?
To my knowledge, unlike Australia, the US or Europe, New Zealand has no industry or other forms of close economic cooperation with China.
The US islands of Guam, Marianas (Saipan), Hawaii and even Puerto Rico have seen extremely low nCOV incidence as well - so it is far more likely that it is isolation (enforced in the case of Hawaii) than anything else - as to why NZ has done well.
Good for them, but utterly meaningless and not relevant to major nations.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 24 2020 16:04 utc | 143

@Richard Steven Hack #61
No, I understood what you are trying to say.
What I posted illustrated that you have no idea what you are talking about.
There is no need for Chauvin to be corrupt in order to make a really, really good living.
Furthermore, there is clear proof he was doing so: it was exactly the long-term, off-duty work through which he knew Floyd.
In any case, your credibility and analytical capability continue to show weakness.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 24 2020 16:08 utc | 144

re the war on iran from the usa... i tend to see it like peter au... mistakes happen, but the usa's complete and utter devotion to the military industrial complex is only eclipsed by it's devotion to raping the rest of the planet for wall st... any country that has that much money for military gear and not much of anything for it's poor and vulnerable, is not a country that i would safely predict aren't going to start a war in iran, or anywhere else for that matter... it helps the usa has people like pompeo and trump as representative of the rot and decay... it is plain for all to see how far gone the usa is... that doesn't mean they can't start another war at any moment.. they can... how about the boneheaded move yesterday on the iran flight into syria?? one day the bully is going to get it's comeuppance... it's coming.. when it happens americans will find a new way to live in the world with others... i look forward to it..

Posted by: james | Jul 24 2020 16:23 utc | 145

c1ue: Well, if NZ has cut off international flights early on, and is now doing a thorough quarantine of all newcomers (be the Kiwi citizens or tourists from abroad), then it stands to reason that it would fare better than a country that didn't want to close down its airports before the virus was already disseminated inside the local population. Closing down most of the economy early on helps as well, but an isolated island like NZ (or even Australia) should first of all close foreign travel, and then search hard and in-depth for the few infected people that would already be inside.
Of course, European countries don't have the luxury of mostly relying on closing airports, they should do it the hard way, closing borders and the economy.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jul 24 2020 16:29 utc | 146

with every insane act of aggression the US is strengthening the alliance of Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, Syria, German and Korea that will destroy the US's imperial dreams. The best case scenario is NATO dissolving but now the more likely scenario is the US following the example of the Soviet Union and collapsing into a bunch of quarreling successor states, good for the world - but a terrible hardship for the people, albeit one that they have earned for themselves through their horrific political system.

Posted by: Kadath | Jul 24 2020 16:47 utc | 147

Out fishin' yesterday on a fine ocean, got to talking with my guest about Portland, Covid, China and such. On the topic of China stealing "our jobs and factories," I asked him if he knew of the singer/pianist Billy Joel, he said yeah, and if he recalled a tune titled "Allentown":

"The song's theme is of the resolve of those coping with the decline of the American manufacturing industry and the emergence of the Rust Belt in the latter part of the 20th century. More specifically, it depicts the depressed, blue-collar livelihood of residents of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania in the wake of Bethlehem Steel's decline and eventual closure." [My Emphasis]

I have an issue with the bolded word "decline" since that's not what was happening; lack of capital reinvestment amidst the rush to offshore production at Neoliberalism's infancy is what was actually going on, although it was hard to tell at the time. Joel's lyrics tell the tale far better. The opening verses:

"Well we're living here in Allentown
And they're closing all the factories down
Out in Bethlehem they're killing time
Filling out forms
Standing in line" [My Emphasis]

So, the counter argument to the rants of Pompeo and ilk is to shove this song from 1982 in their face and tell them they're full of shit. Joel cryptically provides the reason given at the time towards the end of the tune:

"They threw an American flag in our face."

Paraphrasing Reagan, "It's for the good of the nation that we move these strategic factories and their jobs overseas where the products can be made more cheaply upon which the American consumer and economy will benefit." At first they went to Japan and Korea, despite the intense Japan bashing that was led by Reagan and his two-faced labor allies. Again, note Joel's lyrics:

"And the union people crawled away."

I asked my guest who's in his early 70s if he also recalled another Joel hit, from 1989, "We Didn't Start the Fire", and he remembered that one too. I told him the problems we have today--our fire--we didn't start but it's clear that they must be stopped, and for that to happen we need the Citizenry to do its duty like in Portland and elsewhere--hold power to account. He didn't need much convincing. Generally, people capable of clear thinking don't need much convincing.

An argument's being made to return to square one and restart the fight to contain COVID. IMO, that's a very powerful argument in the face of deliberate failure that we also discussed while fishing. Thus, it was great to see the linked article this morning. Meanwhile, Senate Republicans are leaving town for the weekend, which prompted the following remarks from Senator Wyden:

"'Here's the message that I think the folks who are walking on an economic tightrope this weekend need to hear: On this side of the aisle, we've been ready to go for weeks, essentially months,' Wyden said, referring to Senate Democrats. 'As of this afternoon, with benefits expiring in two days, the other side of the aisle has no piece of legislation on offer.'

""They write lots of bills to help multinational corporations, lots of bills to help the powerful and the special interests,' said the Oregon Democrat. 'But as of this afternoon, there is not a bill to help those folks who this weekend are going to be saying, "We're not going to be able to make rent in a few days, we're not going to be able to feed our families, not going to be able to pay for the car insurance"....

"'The lapse that is being forced on this country right now is because Senate Republicans would not step up. The lapse is going to lead to evictions, it's going to lead to hunger, it's going to lead to desperation for millions.'"

I'd say it was Republicans, Nixon in 1971, that started our current fire, although Neoliberalism captured both parties. Yet, Republicans have been at the helm during the most important phases--Nixon, then Reagan/Bush, the crypto-Republican Clinton, followed by W then another crypto-Republican in Obama.

Leaf blowers to disperse tear gas. Somebody's thinking!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 24 2020 16:48 utc | 148

suzan | Jul 24 2020 16:02 utc | 142

Thanks your observations. Brings to mind my connections with hospital system from the 1950s.
My parents were affiliated with a large hospital in New Jersey as volunteer fund raisers and also did effective administrative oversight responsibilities since the 1940s, especially community services. So I had some real view of what happened in the 1950s.

The policy of this particular community hospital policy included 2 strictures. [1] Doctors having hospital privileges for their patients had to perform at least X-hours [1 day per month?--I forget] of volunteer service in the 24 hour open-access clinic. [2] all patient walk-ins must be seen, handled by MD.s professionally and never refused treatment.
The [2] was a constant problem because, starting about 1950, other hospitals in the area began referring more and more indigent patients to that hospital, even paying for taxis if needed, to avoid absorbing the unreimbursed expense of medical treatment. By the end of the 1950s, laws started being passed to prevent refusal-of service but there was no workable way to enforce the law.

This problem was coincident with earlier laws that allowed hospitals to be profit-making corporations yet avoid taxation by accounting tricks [which enabled doctor-owned hospitals to operate...which encouraged the practice of refusing patients by sending them to non-profit hospitals].

Thus destroyed much of "community" hospital service and put intolerable burden on the non-profit institutions. It seemed from about 1955-onward, the whole nature of medical care went off the rails of compassion as the result of new Federal legislation, so the entire USA was effected, not just a particular state or community .

And here we are.

Posted by: chu teh | Jul 24 2020 17:20 utc | 149

New Michael Hudson interview with Ellen Brown, "Banking as a Public Utility". After providing deep context, the main question:

"So the question is, is it really worth subjecting the economy to poverty, to homelessness, to close down businesses, to end the middle class in order to pay debts to the financial class that have made all the gains and growth since 2008? Or do we want to say, 'OK, the debts can’t be paid.' That means that the mortgages won’t be paid, the loans won’t be paid, and some of these trillions of dollars that the financial sector and the Five Percent and the One Percent have made are going to be given back? Well, the One Percent says, 'We’re not going to give back a penny. We are going to insist that the debts be paid. It’s worth it to us to impoverish the economy so we can get richer, even if by getting one dollar, we’re willing to make the economy lose a billion dollars because that’s all we care about.' That’s the point at which the American economy has reached today. Most of the discussions in the mainstream press don’t spell out the fact that if the economy does not write down the debts, we’re in for a chronic depression that will last until the debts are finally written down." [My Emphasis]

After discussing the finer details, the solution reduced to its basics:

"So the problem isn’t simply a debt write-down; it’s to restructure the financial system to make it into a public utility instead of a private monopoly."

So, a Debt Jubilee isn't enough, the financial system needs to be completely rebuilt as a public utility that serves Main Street--Period. Wall Street can still be private, but it will no longer have any impact on public policy, and with enactment of a Tobin Tax can become a source of revenue instead of a massive liability.

During the discussion, Hudson reveals his complete lack of confidence in a Biden regime to do the right thing, which when properly translated means Congress won't do the right thing by enacting the relevant legislation that Biden either signs or vetoes. Thus my argument that a Sea Change in Congress is more important than who becomes POTUS as this article exemplifies.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 24 2020 17:49 utc | 150

VK @ 134.

Thankyou for your polite and concise reply.

I will read the link you kindly provided.

( Although I read the NYT with the same enthusiasm as I have for wiping my hands on a rag dipped in sump oil ).

Pompeo is living proof that U.S. diplomacy is alive, well and inchanged for the last 150 years...

Posted by: Beibdnn | Jul 24 2020 17:53 utc | 151

Suzan @ 142
I’v been following MOA for nearly three years now, on a daily bases. Your comment @ 142 is the best I have seen here ! You win the prize, tick all the boxes. Sincerly.
I agree with all you say about Elmhurst. Indeed the fault rests further up the chain. That whistle blower still deserves a meddle though, it takes courage to speak up as she did, I know first hand.
You very often get no thanks, only vilifiecation. The down side of that is — we need to remember, is it acts as discouragement to much needed other pertential whistle blowers. We see this all to often.
Some times in small enclosed communities there can be a disfunctional culture that builds a life of its own. To the point where dreadful things become the norm. A fresh eye seeing it for what it is, then becomes valuable!
I love the sound of your life style, basicly the same as mine. Paradise at home environment. But still an active activist.
I lack the academic gift though. Streetwise is good enough for me.
Thanks again you’v made my day.
Ps any tips on low blood pressure ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 24 2020 17:56 utc | 152

karlof1 @Jul24 16:48 #148

'As of this afternoon, with benefits expiring in two days, the other side of the aisle has no piece of legislation on offer.'

I think it's pretty clear that the looming economic depression will be blamed on China.

A couple hundred thousand dead from the pandemic is something live-in-the-moment Americans/Westerners can shrug off. But widespread financial hardship will make their blood boil. And that hatred will be directed at China, giving a pass to the corrupt US/Western elites that are at the heart of the problem.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 24 2020 17:58 utc | 153

@ Cadence Calls (99) "Wow. There is some real intellectual masturbation going on here in these comments.
I used to read here for information.
Nowadays, it’s just the same thing over and over again from pseudo intellectual narcissists.
I’m sure you will all be pleased to know that I AM OUT OF HERE."

Yep, lots of people with axes to grind. Some have been grinding for so long that it's surprising that any blade is left at all.

Posted by: Rob | Jul 24 2020 18:04 utc | 154

On the falling Covid death rate vs the rising case rate: It is well established that dying from Covid-19 does not typically occur for at least two weeks after infection. Hence, the number of deaths in the U.S. should be expected to, and may already be, rising. Moreover, with experience, physicians have developed better ways of treating the disease, which should be expected to lower the mortality rate. That's good news but does not mean that the crisis is overstated. With more infected people, there will be more deaths.

Posted by: Rob | Jul 24 2020 18:11 utc | 155

@ Cadence Calls

A narcissist would also assume "all" would feel anything at his exit from anywhere.

Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Jul 24 2020 18:12 utc | 156

Rob @ 154
I’v owend the same axe all my life, in that time I’v replaced the handle 8 times and the head 4 times !
And it’s still as sharp as the day I bought it !!

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 24 2020 18:28 utc | 157

@ 142 suzan, @148 karlof1 and @149 chu teh ... all good posts.. thanks! funny seeing some other posters busy complaining.. moa has a wealth of insights and info..

Posted by: james | Jul 24 2020 18:29 utc | 158

@ O #49

"The hysteria and huge governmental overreaction and overreaction is no where near warranted."

The problem is real even if the virus is not, they are playing for all the marbles.!!!!!

“This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven

countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon,

Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.” Gen W. Clark

Obama pulled off the 2014 Ukraine Coup to collapse the Russian Economy when

Russia stood against the Plan after Libya destroyed & Gaddafi Assassinated in 2011.

All the Presidents are following the same Plan - Trump is working hard on Syria & Iran.

Permanent War Mode since the 'Skull N Bones' Bush's 'New Pearl Harbor' 911 Staged Event

Posted by: JohnF | Jul 24 2020 18:46 utc | 159

JR @153--

They can blame the Depression on whoever they choose but that will do nothing to actually solve the problem that Hudson illustrates so well. And IMO, the public has a much better view of the issue now than 12 years ago.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 24 2020 18:50 utc | 160

"Seyed Mohammad Marandi
Either Israeli or US regime fighter jets threatened an Iranian passenger plane over Syrian airspace.

In Iran it is widely believed that the objective was to cause Syrian air defences to mistakenly shoot down the plane or to force the pilot to make a catastrophic mistake."

Posted by: arby | Jul 24 2020 18:55 utc | 161

lizard 121

Doing something, even if it is too little too late is a good thing so good on you. Screaming incoherently and and clutching at straws in abject fear of the inevitable is not so good.
I see you're at least writing comments now rather than gibberish. Domestically things are no where near as bad here as the US. Only one domestic issue I started on, found a tiny group of people scattered across oz that were also looking into it. When I looked in too deep, the abyss looked back. It was an issue that required mass media to make it known to enough people that there was weight in numbers to take on the abyss. Class action or what ever action was required against the government. Under our rule of law, a little known law is that 'national interest' takes percent over all else and is used at judges discretion.
Geo-politicaly Australia is following the US and that is where the shit is going to hit the fan for us. Polishing the local paintwork does little to change that.
I was a latecomer to the internet, and it was after a couple of years I thought I would use it to research a small political party that had been destroyed by a concerted effort from the duopoly,plus Greens and media. That was something that struck me at the time was the concerted effort to destroy a small grass roots party that started getting a lot of votes. Shortly after that, MH17.
There a bit of dust here and there on the local level paint work and glassware but vigorously polishing that wont change the deeper problems that are going to bring us down, namely the loyalty at the federal level to the English monarch and the US - the five-eyes deep state. It is at this level our problems lay which is different to the US.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 24 2020 19:00 utc | 162

I know there are some posters here who are on a crusade to personally smite Pat Lang and SST's crew no doubt because they themselves were taken to task and chastised by the maestro himself.

What scares me from posting there is the modicum of good-breeding and east-coast bias that peppers the commentariat there with their secret-handshakes and golf buddies all in the CIA together.

I am west-coast, a bastard, poorly-educated, and sans military experience. IOW, not fit to polish Lang's boots.

But let a southerner be a southerner, I say.


The poster "Alexandria" did have a new term that I think is apropos for a west-coaster like me witnessing the ongoing demonstrations in my downtown Portland.

She let loose a fallacy that I have yet never heard of: "Reduction ad Hitlerum."

Why is it so helpful in describing the situation of nightly violence at the Federal Courthouse in Portland, OR?

Because it seems that the good-natured soy boys and girls of Stumptown seem to think that just because local government and state government prefers to let the freaks riot and vomit all over a Federal Building, doesn't mean that the Fed will not take that slight lightly and will indeed defend against this symbolic attack with purely political motivations, at least with those that stay after midnight, inviting a Federal Response by trying to start the Federal building on fire.

Indeed, the fractured make-up of these "good-natured" get-togethers belie a disunity that easily and usually ends up as exhibitions in hooliganism whereby the local police are indeed tired of witnessing night in and night out.

Being Portland, they bring the typical weird-flair, with naked-Athena posing spread-eagle in front of camo-clad officers. There are well-organized leaf-blowers who disperse tear gas when a can lands in their vicinity.

It's all a goofy-shindig for a good cause, that of defeating the Hitlerian, Darf-Vrump, and his evil gang of Fed-shirts.

But it is quickly realized that, unlike the Occupy movement, which targeted the incest between the financial sector and our government, this moment simply smacks of "Orange-Man Bad." They stay and agitate the Fed Courthouse steps because they know at midnight, the Browns will emerge from their holes and spray rubber bullets and tear gas, lather, rinse, and repeat.

It is all a circus designed to provoke a response which then the MSM can paint the Federal Response in Hitlerian-terms, a la "Reduction ad Hitlerum."

Meanwhile, before midnight, various career-protesting groups all take turns trying to dominate the coordinating. From what I gather, there are black youth groups, there are BLM merchandise-pushing groups, and there are those who disregard them all and seek confrontation with the feds. My guess is all are somewhat clandestinely-funded, with the late-night rioters being the most nefarious arm which gathers footage of "Trump's Nazi Response," no doubt so that Uncle Joe has a better chance in November. I'm sure there are those with good intentions among them, but they are drowned out amongst the noise.

You guys, it's Portland. There is much to love about the climate and location here, but, like Seattle, and San Fran, it is becoming increasingly unlivable. A bastion of political-activism which wants to keep the conversation firmly in the realm of the topical. It is not a family-friendly, working-class city. The silent-majority in this country do not find what is happening here palatable.

And Trump is indeed right that outsiders are looking in at us with horror.

These last 50 nights have not helped the cause. It has flushed the cause. Or rather, it didn't realize that merely asking for Federal Reform on policing was probably enough, because at the time of the George Floyd "homicide", the public was squarely in this court. Now, on the eve of body-cam footage being released and the audio-recording of the incident proving that Floyd was probably having a drug-induced panic attack, which the officers were not able to diagnose in a timely-manner, the struggle for police reform and its window has indeed closed.

The public wants these disturbances to go away and they actually sympathize with the cops more!

Imagine if we would have taken small, coordinated steps instead of trying to throw the kitchen-sink at the problem and opening ourselves up to the MSM's controlled-narrative and hijacking to making this all about Trump and November.

Instead, it's all a mess and we will get nothing.

But if Biden is elected in November, at least some among us will have succeeded in their mission.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 24 2020 19:14 utc | 163

Peter AU1 | Jul 24 2020 2:01 utc | 70

According to those two photos Pompus Maximus is uglier than Goering was.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 24 2020 19:41 utc | 164

@163 Last time I shared my thoughts on Portland I was told to STFU. That really hurt and I almost decided to join the silent majority.

But I'll risk another shot. I think attacking the Federal building was a tactical error on the protester's part. It has given Trump the excuse he needs to protect Federal property. It's that or watch it burn down.

What's going on with the Moms NC. Are they protecting the protestors or giving them a place to hide behind?

Posted by: dh | Jul 24 2020 19:46 utc | 165

Kadath | Jul 24 2020 2:08 utc | 72

The News from Next Week

Dateline Djibouti, 24/07/2020

From our correspondent in Africa.


All two thousand five hundred and thirty-two men and women rescued from the USS Elvis Presley were disembarked in Djibouti this morning, from the Chinese warship Wang Hai. They were the survivors of the torpedoeing that took place the day before yesterday off the horn of Africa..

Their dramatic story has not been correctly told until now, but we can now tell our readers the true story of the treachery and skullduggery that caused them to find themselves in the tragic predicament that they did.

The story begins with a meeting between President Trump and PM Netanyahoo that took place in Mars al Lago some time last month, in the course of which they discussed the failing campaign to re-elect the POTUS. Netanyahoo suggested that a sure-fire way, would be to have a war with Iran. His reasoning was: that the Iranians deserverved it anyway and either it would make Trump extremely popular, the well-know “all behind the leader when attacked” effect or if it did not, the idea that “you cannot sack the President in the middle of a war” idea, would have the same desired effect of keeping him in the White house.

After several drinks, they decided that the best plan would be to send an American battleship to the Gulf and the Israelis would get M.E.K. to spread rumours in Iran that it was coming to attack the shore batteries along the coast near Banda Abbas. Trump told the Pentagon that he wanted the navy to do a FONOPS along the Gulf and this was why the Elvis was sent. As the ship approached Charbahar it was surrounded by a flock of small Iranina speedboats and was proceeding on its way when it was torpedoed by an Israeli submarine.

The torpedo struck amidships and knocked out the engine room killing all who were working there and causing the ship rapidly to take on water. As there was no power to operate the pumps, the Captain gave the order to abandon ship. He was unable to send out an electronic distress signal for the same reason, but some sailors were able to make contact with the cellphone network in Iran to notify their families who told the Pentagon. Some sailors, decided that they might not get into a life boat in time and jumped into the water where they were rescued by sailors from the IRGC.

A Chinese warship which was passing, having noticed the distress flares, stopped to offer assistance and the Iranians were glad to offload the US personnel onto the Wang Hai, which was on its way to the Chinese base in Djibouti, which is only a few miles removed from the US Navy base.

In response to this “Iranian outrage” Trump went on Twitter to declare war on Iran but was quickly persuaded to backtrack on it as a “Joke” by the Pentagon, which told him that they were “Not quite ready” for war with Iran! As a result the whole war had to be cancelled before it got out of control and the story of the unfortunate sinking of the Elvis was relegated to the back pages, when it got mentioned at all in the MSM. The sinking was officially attributed to a mine left over from the second World War and the Chinese were given a very grudging vote of thanks by Congress and the Pentagon. The sailors who were rescued said that they were very well treated by the Chinese sailors and experessed themselves as very grateful in a letter signed by all 2532 of them to the Chinese Ambassador.

Almost none of this story came out in the MSM, but people who read RT or PressTV or Sputnik or Xinhua News/english or TASS, read about the action in some detail, while the whole story, i.e. including the involvement of Trump and Netanyahoo, was published in the Jerusalem Post, in Hebrew.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 24 2020 19:48 utc | 166

"Unlawful killing of elderly people, is there a term for that"


Posted by: JohnSays | Jul 24 2020 19:52 utc | 167

I can sympathize, dh. I was the subject of a profanity from a long time (and still current) poster here because the link I had posted made the text hard to read on his mobile device. I rarely post here now and never post links anymore.

Posted by: spudski | Jul 24 2020 19:52 utc | 168

If it makes you feel any better, the Ivy League "secret" society membership counts for a whole lot more than does the military service. For many of them the military service is just an extended Boy Scout camping trip where they network with other operators. Few of those types really enlist and instead, like that Butt-gig clown, go straight in to the military as officers and never end up anywhere dangerous unless they want to. It is really not so different from Imperial Britain where the children of nobility would do fake military service as something of a vacation from college and an opportunity to see some of the world.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 24 2020 19:54 utc | 169

Nemesis calling @ 163
Your starting to sound like a refugee, why after two years dose that thought give me a warm glow.
Tell us all now how you think the world should empathise with your sad plight !
And how you should be treated as human beings.
Sorry nemesis I’m all out of tissues ! There’s a long quie for my sympathy you and your Trumptards are at the back. But carry on the rest of the sane world need a good laugh.
My advice is leave out the bit about George Floyd having a panic attack ! It makes you look stupid.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 24 2020 20:02 utc | 170

@ dh, and spudski.. ignore the riff raff...

Posted by: james | Jul 24 2020 20:04 utc | 171

@171 I do my best james but I'm such a sensitive soul at heart and some people are incredibly rude. Fortunately being here since billmon days I have developed quite a thick skin.

Posted by: dh | Jul 24 2020 20:12 utc | 172

@165 dh

Re: the Moms

The msm has made the Portland one into a moral virtue-signalling affair.

They are well-meaning, enough, but lack the means to see behind the driving forces here.

It is the next iteration of the pussy-hats. But pressed about the deeper issues, it comes back to what Trump does or doesn't do.

Portland has done some truly scary things to the female here.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 24 2020 20:14 utc | 173

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 24 2020 3:49 utc | 87
It's actually very easy to understand why Iran is not an easy target for the US Military to attack. As they demonstrated in their attack on Ain Al-Assad Airbase they have ballistic missile that are pretty damned accurate. They are known to have many thousands of them and they have range enough to hit almost anything within a radius of 1000 miles. The US is in no position to wage a ground war on Iran. Nor is it in a position to wage an air war because Iran has pretty decent AA facilities and with its missiles it can knock out all the US airbases and ships within a 1000 miles of Iran's borders. this would mean that Iran could see any bomber coming and prepare for it. Any fighter escort would be short of fuel before it arrived. Not only that but they have announced that any attack on Iran, from any direction will be answered by a devastating attack on Israel and all the oil-refineries in the area.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 24 2020 20:21 utc | 174

@ Mark2

MoA is the last place I would go for commiseration.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 24 2020 20:25 utc | 175


Welcome to the interwebs...

Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Jul 24 2020 20:31 utc | 176

dun feed the troll... foolisholdman

Posted by: JC | Jul 24 2020 20:45 utc | 177

Richard Steven Hack | Jul 24 2020 5:25 utc | 96

The US wasn't ready to attack Iran 6 months ago. More importantly, neither was Israel.
The Idea of Israel attacking Iran on it's own is ludicrous. Iran is a huge mountainous country with a population of 80 million and a large army. Israel is what 6 million (That No. again?) And as noted elsewhere Iran has formidable missiles. The problem the Us has with building up supplies is the same one again. They would have to be stored a long way off or very well hardened or the Iranians could destroy them.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 24 2020 20:47 utc | 178

karlof1 @Jul24 18:50 #160

They can blame the Depression on whoever they choose but that will do nothing to actually solve the problem ...

You are just stammering now.

They caused the problem by milking the populace for every dime, now they are evading responsible by deflecting the blame AND furthering their own agenda by stoking hatred of China.

This should cause outrage but attention has been focused on statues instead.

IMO, the public has a much better view of the issue now than 12 years ago.

Very few are actually listening to Hudson or to wise counsel in alt-media. Whatever good those voices have done is about to be swamped by a huge wave of red-hot HATE for China that makes the hate for Nazis and Soviets look like lover's spat.

The asshats have turned the public into blithering idiots via incessant propaganda, a go-along-to-get-along culture that denies the truth for selfish gain, and an educational system that is designed to teach job skills over critical thinking. The elites easily turn the people's "better view" over the candy counter into a morality play in which the rubes police themselves nicely as they yearn for sweets from the oligarch adults with the cash.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 24 2020 21:02 utc | 179

William Gruff | Jul 24 2020 19:54 utc | 169

I was amused to learn during my NS, that the way the Army ensures that ALL officers come from rich families, is to make the pay of a second Lieutenant much less than the Mess-fees he has to pay. I'm not sure about 1st Lts, do they still need family subsidies or not? Captains are self supporting, I think.
I leaned this when I complained about my pte's pay of £1/8/- per week to my platoon cmdr. I was told "You don't know how well off you are!"

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 24 2020 21:03 utc | 180

I've read an article about Le Mesurier's embezzling money for the White Helmets. The angle was that of a small speck of dirt on an otherwise fantastic organisation. While It think that angle is preposterous I also think this is only a small scandal. It does undercut the narrative of Russia somehow being behind Le Mesurier's death but I don't see how it reinforces either narrative about the nature of the White Helmets.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jul 24 2020 21:04 utc | 181

dh | Jul 24 2020 19:46 utc | 165

But I'll risk another shot. I think attacking the Federal building was a tactical error on the protester's part. It has given Trump the excuse he needs to protect Federal property. It's that or watch it burn down.

Was it protesters who set fire to it or Agents provocateurs?

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 24 2020 21:11 utc | 182

personal opinion--pat lang's an asshole. he had some good analysis on syria and russiagate, and that is the only thing that made going to his blog worthwhile. he was pushing some fossil fuel bullshit about global warming and i started making critical comments, which never appeared. he didn't engage, he didn't "slap me down", he knew his argument was weak so he ducked it.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 24 2020 21:21 utc | 183

the moms are protecting the protestors. the hope was the federal thugs would be reluctant to attack god, motherhood and apple pie, but the thugs proved they will attack moms as aggressively as other innocent protestors. trump doesn't need much of an excuse to send in the thugs.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 24 2020 21:33 utc | 184

Tuyzentfloot @Jul24 21:04 #181

I don't see how it reinforces either narrative about the nature of the White Helmets.

Well, it reinforces the narrative that he's dead.

The news of his having skimmed a little money off the top sure got around didn't it? Strange that the reputation of such a heroic spook is besmirched after his death.

We are not supposed to wonder if he has simply retired and is sipping mai-tai's on a beach somewhere with Jeffrey Epstein.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 24 2020 21:35 utc | 185

@182 "Was it protesters who set fire to it or Agents provocateurs?"

I have no idea. You tell me. All I know Federal agents are inside the building. I can make a guess what happens to the building if they move out.

Posted by: dh | Jul 24 2020 21:39 utc | 186

the federal thugs are arresting people on the street well away from any federal buildings, and putting them in unmarked vans. a peaceful protestor walked toward them and asked "why are violating your constitutional oaths"? and one thug whacked him several times with a billy club and another sprayed pepper spray or tear gas right in his face. they broke his hand and he had to go to the hospital for asking them a fuck.. question. the thugs include border patrol agents (portland is not on the border) who have no training in crown control. the thugs are there to escalate things, which is why most of the cities don't want them. portland's mayor got tear gassed--did the thugs think he was going to burn the courthouse down?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 24 2020 21:49 utc | 187

dh @165--

In a private note I wrote to a fellow barfly living in Oregon, I said the protesters needed to cease their attacks on federal property as that gives Trump's goons the rationale they need to riot. The situation differs from Ft Sumter in 1860-61, but it's very similar--Lincoln gets the impatient Fire Eating Southerners to fire the first shot and thus gets to rightfully claim the need to protect additional federal property, which only serves to further enrage the Fire Eaters. Trump probably doesn't know any of that history, but nonetheless he's following that same path. If protests can be shown to be non-peaceful--"violent" because of attacks on property--the protesters lose their one major card--that they're being assaulted while peacefully demonstrating their right to air their grievances. That's why the feds and other police agencies use provocateurs to incite the violence they can use as justification for their rampage, although I'm not 100% certain all violent acts are done by such agents.

Demonstrators understand what I wrote above as this item shows. There's a good possibility that Antifa is similar to Europe's Red Brigade of days past that was actually an agent of the Police/NATO/CIA/Gladio--it's too damned convenient and appeared at the perfect moment. Portland's Mayor Wheeler was in the crowd last night putting forth an argument similar to mine above--the people's elected representatives are on their side but must return their backing by being peaceful. Yes, it's very difficult to do when there're provocateurs. THE biggest reason the Black's Civil Rights Movement won in the 1950-60s was their very deep commitment to non-violence while it was clear the Goons were bent on violence.

I've written on the topic of using the political path versus the violent revolutionary path many times and the morals connected to each. Within the Outlaw US Empire, there're many reasons to mount a violent revolution, but the citizen solidarity to make it work it woefully lacking, which is why the Feds and their Financial Parasites keep trying--successfully--to Divide and Rule. The attempt would likely fail and those killed would die in vain--a morally unjustifiable outcome. That leaves only the political path for the time being that will either accomplish the goal or at minimum gain the requisite citizen solidarity required to make violent revolution a success. There're many revolutions from the 20th Century available as case studies to arrive at the above conclusions--they aren't just pulled from my hat.

In the 6 years my wife and I've been together, she's gone from a moderate to a radical as she's learned more about the Empire's truths and lies, and how they promote the great disparities we see. It's now difficult to argue her out of wanting to right all the wrongs tomorrow via revolution--for she's correct that the wrongs must be righted. Her argument is that the political path hasn't produced any results and nothing will change until we get rid of the Duopoly and its sponsors. Hard to counter that, yes? The only sensible reply I can make is that the citizenry isn't radicalized enough or has enough solidarity to be successful at overturning it all and beginning afresh the next day. Fortunately, she's mature and intelligent enough to agree with my reasoning. Unfortunately, we have our own version of the Fire Eaters, and we cannot afford to have them put us into a weakened position.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 24 2020 22:30 utc | 188

karlof1 @Jul24 22:30 #188

I agree with you that it is highly likely that "violence" is arranged to turn Americans against the peaceful protesters and to justify a crack-down.

I also agree with your suspicion that Antifa is a pro-Empire construct. IMO it may be an off-shoot of JDL.

I think the citizenry won't be 'radicalized enough' until are motivated to question establishment priorities and demand accountability. Sadly, it may take a major defeat for that to occur. Few care to see the downside risks until it is too late. Those who do are smeared as 'cynical', 'disgruntled', and 'traitorous'.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 24 2020 23:06 utc | 189

There is the question as to agent provocateurs.

Chicago PD released this video of a brazen attack against bicycle police without any kind of riot protection equipment.

Like I said above, this stuff is not casting good images on these "protests."

I give kudos to how organized they are for a bunch of panzees going after bicycle cops.

Keep in mind:

+ This is daylight
+ There is widespread organization and it travels freely in and amongst "peaceful" protests
+ At the point of violence, the peaceful among them are rendered complete passive observers by appearing nonetheless to be a part of the violence


There is reason to think these protests are about to become a bigger thing:

+ unemployment CARE act is over
+ Trump could get reelected
+ dismissals or letdown when it comes to George Floyd trials and the lack of substantial prison time
+ ongoing economic disruption due to COVID


IMO, you will see more of these violent instigations, but we will see.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 24 2020 23:12 utc | 190


thank you for the updates from Portland. I sometimes refer to my town, Missoula, as "little Portland" because we're in the Northwest and a lot of my friends moved to Portland after college to get jobs that actually paid.

I probably don't have to tell you this, but I'd avoid Voodoo Donuts and Dantes if I were you.

Posted by: lizard | Jul 24 2020 23:22 utc | 191

@ lizard 191

You are welcome.

Portland is really the result of Missoula if you think about it...with the Missoula floods and all.

Voodoo is the worst. They do have buckets of day-olds for 5 bucks and...YOU GET TO KEEP THE BUCKET! WOW! Other gourmet donut shops have it over VD, fo sho.

All the Burnside night life is boarded up right now. But even when it wasn't I stayed abuts the Mission kitchen there and yeah...a tad unsavory for this square.

Been through Montana a couple times. Visited the college-town Bozeman and my stepbrother went to Western Montana in Dillon. I think there was a place that served 2 pound moose burgers. I only made it through the first pound.

It really is big-sky. You are lucky. And it's not too far from civilization. There is a Marshall's there, right?

Thx for your poetry!

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 24 2020 23:51 utc | 192

@188 I'm not in a position to discuss Portland. I can only go by my own experience of protests that turn violent.

In Grosvenor Square, London 1968 (demo outside US Embassy) I was very close to the front of the march and got pushed even further in by people behind. Looking back I was a damn fool for being there but such is youth. The violence began when people started throwing marbles (to make the horses slip). Up to that point the police hadn't moved. Then it just went crazy and I saw people trying to pull policemen off their horses. Maybe they were provocateurs but I sure hope they got paid well because they got their skulls cracked.

Posted by: dh | Jul 24 2020 23:53 utc | 193


ah yes, glacial lake Missoula. we are lucky out here, and don't think that hasn't gone unnoticed among those with the means to escape their less ideal locations. there is no softening of the real estate market at all, people are still getting in bidding wars and paying over asking prices, making it worse for those hanging on in the service sector/tourist economy.

one sliver lining of the pandemic locally is a giant convention center project looks to be dead in the water, at least for now. the project would have sucked 16.5 million in public money, something our local agitation was making it difficult to sell to the public.

please keep us updated on developments, what's happening in Portland is very important.

Posted by: lizard | Jul 25 2020 0:14 utc | 194

NemesisCalling @190--

Floyd's killer cop and his wife were charged with felony tax evasion on top of his murder charges.

I think it was OWS that formed its own security teams to deal with provocateurs. As the title Killing Our Own suggests and Maidan proves, Power will do whatever it takes to take or retain its Power. Many nations employ a shadow government as part of their political structure. Here within the Outlaw US Empire we need something different within our major cities--Neighborhood Cop & Provocateur Watch organized and vetted by the city's citizenry--if the Movement to oust the Duopoly is to succeed. And I think you want it to but are concerned with the moral cost if done improperly.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 25 2020 0:18 utc | 195

dh @193--

Thanks for your reply. Seems the violence was premeditated in your example. Aside from venting, property damage accomplishes nothing other than providing security forces with a rationale for their existence and actions. Violence should only be employed when its use will facilitate the overall political goal of wresting power from those enforcing the gross disparities and looting the treasury; otherwise, it must remain in the tool box.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 25 2020 0:31 utc | 196

@196 I agree. But you know how people are. Protests start peacefully but some young folk get frustrated with lack of progress. You can't reason with them and one thing leads to another.

Posted by: dh | Jul 25 2020 1:01 utc | 197

@195 karlof1

Yes, I am concerned with not being able to get to the truth with the images I see on the internet. I want to know and be informed and then help the truth.

I am scared to death over the hyper-militarization of our police force.

But I can't shake the feeling that much of what is going on doesn't concern me in the slightest, it being heavenly-laden with the pull of politics, the duopoly.

And I just don't think there are champions among us to focus the energy of the outrage and direct it where it belongs.

Thank you for continuing to engage with me. It has bothered me this last few days with my rudeness to you about the situation in our fair city.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 25 2020 1:04 utc | 198

267 children go missing from Arizona Foster Care System

Recent studies show 1 out of 3 foster children that go missing are never found

Cps is corrupt and the biggest trafficking network in the world

Posted by: Mao | Jul 25 2020 1:06 utc | 199

NemesisCalling 198 "And I just don't think there are champions among us to focus the energy of the outrage and direct it where it belongs."

You hit the nail on the head with that one. Anyone that has that ability and they are few, is identified and neutralized in some way before anything can form.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 25 2020 1:20 utc | 200

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