Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 30, 2020

Covid-19 Update - Heart Damage And Aerosols

In 2019 the U.S. was ranked as the country best prepared for a pandemic. This year it is again at the top. As the Wall Street Journal headlines:

U.S. Leads the Globe as Coronavirus Deaths Pass 150,000, Hospitalizations Rise

The Washington Post adds another highlight:

U.S. reports 1,400 coronavirus deaths in a day — about one per minute


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The number of new cases in U.S. have somewhat peaked for now as the sunbelt states have taken some measures to decrease new infections. But I am afraid that the trend down will (again) be very slow and that we will see another rise as some other states - Ohio, Tennessee, Indiana and Kentucky - show upticks in new infections. They may be the next ones who will get into trouble. The curve of new deaths from Covid-19 follows the new cases curve by three to four weeks. Deaths will probably peak at the end of August.

The economic damage the pandemic has caused in the U.S. is extreme:

The U.S. economy shrank at an annualized 32.9% rate in the second quarter — the worst-ever contraction on records that date back to 1947, the government said on Thursday.
...
The staggering contraction beats the last record set in 1958, when GDP shrank at an annualized 10% rate.

Interestingly the contraction in 1958 was a direct result of the 1957/58 H2N2 influenza pandemic.

Globally the situations is mixed. South-east Asia seems to have the problem under control. India is a mess. South America has huge problems. Western European countries seem mostly okay for now but I expect another big rise there as people are beginning to lose discipline. East Europe looks bleak. There is little reliable dataavailable for the Middle East and Africa.

Over the last six month scientists and doctors have learned a lot about the virus and the diseases it causes. I use the plural here as the virus is causing so many different troubles that it is hard to see them as one malady.

A number of professors at the UCSF have written a very good piece which describes all the different effects they see in their patients:

We Thought It Was Just a Respiratory Virus - We were wrong.

When the pandemic reached Europe there were discussions about the published numbers of Covid-19 death. Had people who had heart attacks and were positive for Covid-19 died from Covid-19 or with Covid-19? Those who argued against lockdowns and masks believed that most of the heart attack deaths did not come from Covid-19 and that it was wrong to include them in the total Covid-19 deaths number. But the extensive damage the virus directly causes in a multitude of organs makes it clear that Covid-19 was most likely the direct cause of all those deaths.

There was recently a similar conflict in Idaho about the death of a pediatric nurse practitioner who had died of a heart attack caused by Covid-19:

The post, which Rep. Tammy Nichols, a Middleton Republican, shared Wednesday without comment, pointed out that Samantha Hickey, who died two weeks ago at 45, suffered a heart attack. The post by Cate Tedeski implied that Hickey’s death was somehow being misrepresented by the news media to scare the public.

It linked to an Idaho Statesman story that reported how Hickey, who worked for St. Luke’s Health System, died of a heart attack after contracting the coronavirus.

The cardiology doctor who had cared for the nurse practitioner went public and described the case:

SARS-CoV-2, or the virus that causes the disease COVID-19, is a new virus that we still know very little about. Not only can the virus cause severe pneumonia and lung failure, but it can also cause unique cardiovascular injury. In some patients with COVID-19, the stress from the infection and inflammation causes small heart attacks that can be identified through blood tests. In other patients and for reasons that we don’t understand yet, COVID-19 causes clotting within the blood vessels that can result in heart attacks and strokes.

In addition, the virus can directly attack the heart muscle itself and cause a disease called viral myocarditis. Myocarditis can happen to anyone of any age and it is unpredictable who will become severely ill. Sometimes, the virus causes so much damage to the heart muscle that patients die from rhythm abnormalities or shock because their heart can no longer function.

Sadly, Samantha Hickey died from cardiac shock due to COVID-19 myocarditis. She was an otherwise healthy 45-year-old before becoming infected.

Heart problems caused by Covid-19 are widespread. Consider this study which looked at cardiac changes in the MRI of people who have had Covid:

Findings: In this cohort study including 100 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 identified from a COVID-19 test center, cardiac magnetic resonance imaging revealed cardiac involvement in 78 patients (78%) and ongoing myocardial inflammation in 60 patients (60%), which was independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and the time from the original diagnosis.

Two third of those people had not even been hospitalized. They were 'mild' cases. The heart damage in the 60% of the people who have had Covid-19 may be permanent. Even otherwise healthy people can have this outcome. Red Sox pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez is one of those casualties

Moreover the CDC has now acknowledged that some 35% of those who had a symptomatic Covid-19 cases have not fully recovered even after 2-3 week. This includes the 'long haulers' like Hannah Davis who recently gave this update:

I just crossed the 4 month mark of being sick w' #COVID19. I am young, & I was healthy. Dying is not the only thing to worry about. I still have a near-daily fever, loss of cognitive function, essential tremors, GI issues, severe headaches, heartrate of 150+, viral arthritis, 1/
heart palpitations, muscle aches, a feeling like my body has forgotten to breathe. Over the past 124 days I've lost all feeling in my arms & hands, had extreme back/kidney/rib pain, phantom smells (like someone BBQing bad meat), tinnitus, difficulty understanding text/reading, 2/
difficulty following conversations, sensitivity to noise & light, nonstop bruising. *Thinking* can cause headaches now. I'm not alone in the cognitive issues; it's as common a symptom as cough.

No one knows when #longcovid patients aren't contagious; many are alone for months.
...

Long term effects of Covid-19 are not rare. In Spain over half of coronovirus patients have developed neurological problems.

While we have learned a lot about the virus and the diseases it causes there are even more things we do not know. Many young people, most of whom do not have to fear death from Covid-19, seem to assume that the virus will spread to nearly everyone and therefore do not care about getting infected right away. That is a stupid idea:

With each passing month, researchers are learning more about how to best treat the sickest patients. While there still is no cure, there is now some evidence for how to use treatments such as remdesivir and dexamethasone, said Dr. Abraar Karan, an internal medicine doctor at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, so arguably, your chances of survival are better now than in February. “The longer you wait to be infected, the less chance you have of being part of an experiment, and the better chance you have to be receiving the outcome of a well-done experiment,” he said.

I had long assumed that The SARS-CoV-2 virus spreads mostly by aerosols in rooms with air conditioners. It was the only explanation for several superspreading events described in the early literature. The dozen people who were infected in a restaurant in Guangzhou had all been sitting in the cycling airstream of an air conditioner. Some 50 cases in a one floor call center in Singapore also pointed to air conditioning as the distribution element. The many cases in a large outbreak in a German meat processing plant were also caused by aerosols in a air conditioned atmosphere. A detailed analysis of that event is here. The authors summarize:

In conclusion, this study indicates that transmission of SARS-CoV-2 can occur over distances of at least 8 [meter] in confined spaces under conditions of relatively low air exchange rates and high rates of recirculated unfiltered air.

People infected with SARS-CoV-2 spread droplets and aerosols when they speak, sneeze or cough. Air conditioning systems also dry the air while cooling it. In dry air droplets from an infected person lose their water content very fast and turn into virus carrying aerosols. Aerosols do not sink to the ground. Air conditioning systems can spread them very effectively.

Air conditioning system in modern airplanes use HEPA filters that catch aerosol size particles. N95 (FFP2 in Europe) masks do the same. For all of those who work with other people in a closed environment in which unfiltered air conditioning is used I recommend to wear a mask.

There is research about other viruses that support this recommendation:

In contrast to the neglected importance of aerosols fomites have received way too much attention. Their risk was exaggerated. The chance that some virus in a droplet on some surface makes it into ones nose is very small. That is why I have not wiped one surface for fear of Covid-19 and have never changed my hand hygiene. The deep cleaning is nonsense. Such Hygiene Theater Is a Huge Waste of Time.

For air conditioned public rooms and offices upgrading to HEPA-filters in air conditioners should have the highest priority. Unless that has happened masks should be made mandatory in such places.

Posted by b on July 30, 2020 at 18:23 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page

Let’s just wear the Niqab and be done with it. Covid is endemic and we need to learn to live with it.

Posted by: Geraldo Rivera | Jul 31 2020 6:22 utc | 101

james 98

Language is a funny thing. Some view it as an art form and comment on the art rather than what it contains.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 6:23 utc | 102

I do not really understand all this focus on the US...
The US is a third world country disguised as a first world country.
Its lack of proper and free health care, free education are the most vile examples of this profit chasing monstrosity of a nation, put on top its deregulation of laws that protect workers, children, environment, education and you have all the things that make a failed state.
"I fart in your general direction"

Posted by: Den lille abe | Jul 31 2020 6:31 utc | 103

Peter AU1 @ 107

Your point about children doesn't really apply to N-CoV-2 susceptibility, since we know very few children have become ill even though they have been exposed to it. I also question your initial assumption that "disease susceptibility has more to do with the immune system we are born with than other factors." No doubt modern medicine has made great progress in mitigating or defeating known pathogens, and our immune systems evolve generationally to defend against continually emerging ones. But the modern industrialized and interconnected world presents a barrage of challenges that is unprecedented, which could account for the high incidence of cancer and other diseases. IMO it is the "other factors" that loom large in causing disease, and evidence of this is clear to me when I notice the obvious deleterious diet and sedentary habits of Americans, in addition to the unavoidable pollution in many regions.

Posted by: norecovery | Jul 31 2020 6:32 utc | 104

norecovery 108

As far as immune systems, nothing has changed since day one. Plenty of crap about whatever 2g 4g 5g power lines, noise from wind turbines ... lot of people with bent minds talking mid bending stuff ...

Subsistence agriculture ... that can be seen in various parts of the world .. people well away from all forms of green latte sipping health issues but still they have health problems.
Modern medicine. Modern agriculture. World population has exploded. Not as in destructed but in numbers.
And all you clowns can crap on about is some hairy fairy bullshit about these things being bad for health.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 6:45 utc | 105

Peter Au1

Yes, the bacteria in the petri dish containing nutrient will continue to multiply until... Extinction. That is what I think awaits our invasive species. In the meantime, I will use knowledge and self-discipline (within reasonable bounds) to avoid risks to my health. That ain't no "hairy fairy bullshit" but rather a sensible plan. I hope you'll do the same.

Posted by: norecovery | Jul 31 2020 7:01 utc | 106

Maybe Roberto is The Last American Vagabond. He sure rants just the same way.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 31 2020 7:07 utc | 107

norecovery

There is at times problems with mining and industry and so forth that can be bad for health, but many put all health issues down to technology. Western and in particular US diets can be bad for health. But populations have only exploded because we have far better living conditions and medicine than hunter gatherers and subsistence farmers.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 7:09 utc | 108

Den Lilley Abe #103

Yes, I will drink to that. Tired of USA.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 31 2020 7:10 utc | 109

Notice the date on Brewster's post back in March... Notice the comment... Can we suspect that he *really* doesn't give a damn about a pandemic that's killed 150,000 Americans in comparison to his own concerns? In short, "conspiracy theorist"...it's "all a hoax" to do the "Great Reset"...


Posted by: john brewster | Mar 21 2020 22:36 utc | 581 The most interesting stats on that link are the comparisons of the covid death numbers to normal mortality. Also, the fact that flu season was mild this year means there were more marginally healthy people for the virus to kill.

Lastly, the fact that ICUs in Lombardy normally run at 85-90% full and that a similar overwhelming happened a few years ago in another flu outbreak.

I am not saying the disease is not serious. I am saying that the reaction to it and the publicity about it screams "Disaster Capitalism". The government is interested in saving Wall St and Boeing, not Joe Sixpack.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 7:24 utc | 110

Now back to the actual news about the pandemic...

Children May Carry Coronavirus at High Levels, Study Finds
The research does not prove that infected children are contagious, but it should influence the debate about reopening schools, some experts said.

Someone on Twitter said yesterday something to the effect that: "the virus is so *out* of control we need to delay the election but the virus is so *under* control that we need to pack kids back into schools. Yeah, that checks out."

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 7:34 utc | 111

Too bad they didn't wait longer...could have gotten rid of some of them...

House orders broad mask mandates after Gohmert gets virus

"Before the hearing, Gohmert was seen approaching the meeting room behind Barr, and neither man was wearing a mask."

See, this is the attitude these government types have: "I'm not one of the little people, I don't have to follow the rules." And no one is more susceptible to that attitude than the President - *any* President, not just Trump. Trump is just an extreme case.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 7:37 utc | 112

"Western European countries seem mostly okay for now but I expect another big rise there as people are beginning to lose discipline."

Really? 1000+ cases in France, more in Belgium, same trends in Spain and Netherlands...
and the beaches are crowded from the UK to Spain, so expect new peaks in one month...

Posted by: Mina | Jul 31 2020 7:38 utc | 113

about ME and Africa, it is raging. From local ppl i can say: Algeria, Yemen, Sudan are facing lots of contamination, but from what I hear it takes only the elderly.

Posted by: Mina | Jul 31 2020 7:40 utc | 114

An Aging Immune System May Explain Why Covid-19 Is So Harmful to the Elderly
A doctor explains ‘inflammaging’


Inflammaging results in a pro-inflammatory state that predisposes the innate immune system to overactivity. When an elderly individual becomes infected with SARS-CoV-2, evidence is mounting to suggest that the innate immune response tends to become abnormally heightened. Overactive innate immune cells release cell-signaling particles called cytokines which create a storm of inflammation that damages the body’s own tissue.

At the same time, inflammaging blunts activation of the adaptive immune response.

So us older gents get fucked both ways...no surprise there...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 7:41 utc | 115

And this piece is important because it deals with the cherry-picking of "experts" the trolls - and Trump and his campaign - have been doing...

When Doctors Spread Misinformation, Can Anything Be Done?


Jennifer Gunter
@DrJenGunter
I’m fucking sick of doctors lying about fake therapies for covid. Honestly, this is unprofessional behavior and we need to see the professional medical societies and state medical boards stepping up.
7:59 PM · Jul 29, 2020

And the video being referenced - which is an attempt to once again spread the idea that hydroxychloroquine is a "cure" for COVID-19 - is debunked in this article.


The speaker, Stella Immanuel, says that she is a doctor and that she practiced in Nigeria. That much checks out: a person of that name does have a medical license on file with the state of Texas, and the license states that she got her medical degree from a university in Nigeria.

She says that she has treated 350 patients with COVID-19, given them all a regimen of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and the antibiotic Zithromax, and that none have died. We don’t have any way of judging whether this is true; she hasn’t released any data that I’ve been able to find....

On her social media profiles, she has shared other misinformation, including a claim that the coronavirus vaccine “will fuse with your own genes and modify your genetic makeup,” which is not a thing any of the vaccines in development are designed nor, as far as anyone knows, remotely able to do. The Daily Beast has more on her past statements about health, including the idea that gynecological problems are caused by having sex in one’s dreams with demons.

Well, she got her medical degree in Nigeria, so that last doesn't surprise me... LOL

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 7:52 utc | 116

It Probably Came From Bats
Tracing the evolutionary lineage of the coronavirus


The succinct summary of the paper by MIT Technology Review reporter Neel Patel on Twitter is hard to top: “It’s bats, you guys. It came from bats.”

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 7:56 utc | 117

The Latest Science on Covid-19 and the Eyes
How does the virus affect the eyes, and can you catch the virus through your eyes?


Sometimes SARS-CoV-2 is present in eye fluids and sometimes not. The prevalence ranges from 0% to 7.14%, per the June review. It appears that SARS-CoV-2 can sometimes infect the eyes. This may be due to innate defense mechanisms, such as antimicrobial peptides in tears and eye surfaces or the tears flushing viral particles away....

There are also anecdotal reports of Covid-19 transmission via the eyes — specifically of health care workers who wore masks and appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE) but no eye protection and somehow contracted Covid-19 and conjunctivitis.

But the verdict as to transmission via the eyes remains unclear. “Although there is currently no confirmed conjunctival transmission route, the authors agree with the WHO and other organizations’ recommendations that PPE must include eye protection such as goggles or face shields,” stated the June review.

While Covid-19 eye transmission may be possible, it is likely rarer than contaminated droplets entering the respiratory tract. This is based on the infrequent occurrence of eye inflammation in Covid-19 cases, as discussed above.

Exactly as I said: infection is *possible* but *improbable*, except in cases with close and long-term exposure to virus clouds, which is what the medical personnel would have experienced. Note that the recommendation is really intended for medical personnel, not people who are not continually exposed.

So Fauci's comment can not be taken as a general recommendation. He said *if* you *have eye protection, you *should* use it "if you want perfect protection". Which as I said before, isn't "perfect" at all: only a full-head respirator or a full-body haz-mat suit is "perfect".

But the morons will seize on Fauci's random comment as more "proof" that "it's all a hoax to scare people".

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 8:05 utc | 118

Guarantee you this is not how the US will do it...

Back-to-School Lessons From South Korea
The inside scoop from a teacher in a country that did everything right


Yes, it can be a hassle. Yes, it can be tedious. Yes, it is worth it. We have not seen a single case of Covid-19 at our school of over 300 students who have been back in person for three and a half months. This is a very small scale experiment, mind you. Each of our classes has a maximum of eight students. This means that reopening schools on a larger scale requires a minimum of these procedures and guidelines — and likely additional measures.

The minimum is at least nine procedures listed in the article. They seem pretty thorough. I think I'd be amazed if they can be made to work in a typical US school, though - without repeatedly beating the kids - and the teachers - with a bat to get compliance. I suspect Asian schools are better organized.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 8:12 utc | 119

Iran was hit hard early on. A number of people in government caught it and some died. Why has the Fort Detrick virus not taken some of the yankistan war mongers?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 8:17 utc | 120

And now on to local news...bad news...

Predicting ‘major surge,’ SF opens site to free hospital beds for COVID-19 patients


The announcement comes as San Francisco is seeing a significant uptick in people hospitalized with COVID-19: The number reached 109 Thursday, up from 26 six weeks ago, Dr. Grant Colfax, the city’s public health director, said Thursday. Of those currently hospitalized with the coronavirus, one quarter — about 27 patients — are in intensive care, he said.

Predicting a “major surge” in critical coronavirus cases in the coming weeks, San Francisco officials said Thursday they will shift non-COVID-19 patients to a new inpatient facility in the Presidio if it becomes necessary to clear hospital beds for virus patients.

The temporary medical center will be set up in a pair of warehouses behind the Palace of Fine Arts on Gorgas Avenue, and will treat up to 93 patients who are not infected with the coronavirus, county officials said.

The announcement comes as San Francisco is seeing a significant uptick in people hospitalized with COVID-19: The number reached 109 Thursday, up from 26 six weeks ago, Dr. Grant Colfax, the city’s public health director, said Thursday. Of those currently hospitalized with the coronavirus, one quarter — about 27 patients — are in intensive care, he said.

“Let me be clear: We are in a major surge of COVID-19,” Colfax said. “The virus is moving fast and more people are getting seriously ill.”...

And in San Francisco, if the case surge continues at the current rate, public health officials said they expect to reach an average of 750 hospitalizations a day by mid-October.

In a “plausible worst-case scenario,” Colfax said, that would mean 2,400 people hospitalized by then — and as many as 1,800 deaths by the end of the year.

“These scenarios unfortunately become more likely as each day goes by with the current trends,” he said.

1,800 deaths. By comparison, San Francisco currently has a total of 58...

I've been expecting this to happen before now, given the more or less complete lack of efforts in dealing with the 17,000 homeless and 19,000 SRO residents. And now we have more people running around without masks.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 8:32 utc | 121

Oh, this is good...

How Jared Kushner’s Secret Testing Plan “Went Poof Into Thin Air”
This spring, a team working under the president's son-in-law produced a plan for an aggressive, coordinated national COVID-19 response that could have brought the pandemic under control. So why did the White House spike it in favor of a shambolic 50-state response?


But the effort ran headlong into shifting sentiment at the White House. Trusting his vaunted political instincts, President Trump had been downplaying concerns about the virus and spreading misinformation about it—efforts that were soon amplified by Republican elected officials and right-wing media figures. Worried about the stock market and his reelection prospects, Trump also feared that more testing would only lead to higher case counts and more bad publicity. Meanwhile, Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House’s coronavirus response coordinator, was reportedly sharing models with senior staff that optimistically—and erroneously, it would turn out—predicted the virus would soon fade away.

Against that background, the prospect of launching a large-scale national plan was losing favor, said one public health expert in frequent contact with the White House’s official coronavirus task force.

Most troubling of all, perhaps, was a sentiment the expert said a member of Kushner’s team expressed: that because the virus had hit blue states hardest, a national plan was unnecessary and would not make sense politically. “The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy,” said the expert...

Experts are now warning that the U.S. testing system is on the brink of collapse. “We are at a very bad moment here,” said Margaret Bourdeaux. “We are about to lose visibility on this monster and it’s going to rampage through our whole country. This is a massive emergency.”

In short, let the Democrats get it and we win the election.

Your government at work for you.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 8:43 utc | 122

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-31/woolworths-wants-many-shoppers-wearing-face-masks/12510804
"Woolworths wants many shoppers wearing face masks — here's what you need to know"

I'm in Victoria. Went into Woolworths yesterday and not one staff member wearing a mask.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 8:57 utc | 123

One last, then I'm off to watch TV...

San Francisco’s lonely war against Covid-19
The city could have crushed the coronavirus. Then Trump got in the way.


San Francisco has maintained less than 60 percent the Covid-19 cases per capita as California, and less than 30 percent the deaths per capita. Its caseload and death toll are lower than other large cities, including Washington, DC, and Columbus, Ohio, and far lower than current hot spots like Arizona and Florida....

But Breed, with the guidance of the Bay Area’s public health officials, has consistently kept the city ahead on Covid-19. The day before Trump claimed, falsely, that coronavirus cases would go from 15 to nearly zero in the US, Breed on February 25 declared a local state of emergency over the virus. Three days before California issued a stay-at-home order and nearly a week before New York state did, San Francisco County, with Breed’s full backing, on March 16 joined the five other Bay Area counties in issuing the country’s first regional stay-at-home order...

Breed was ahead of not just much of the nation, but her progressive peers as well. On March 2, she warned on Twitter that the public should “prepare for possible disruption from an outbreak,” advising people to stock up on essential medications, make a child care plan in case a caregiver gets sick, and plan for school closures. The same day, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, a fellow Democrat, tweeted that he was “encouraging New Yorkers to go on with your lives + get out on the town despite Coronavirus.”

New York City would go on to suffer one of the worst coronavirus outbreaks in the world, with its total death rate standing, as of July 29, at 272 per 100,000 people — more than 45 times as high as San Francisco’s rate of 6 per 100,000. (De Blasio’s office didn’t respond to a request for comment.)

San Francisco’s death toll is also fairly low compared to that of some other areas in California — a fraction of Los Angeles County’s 45 per 100,000 and Imperial County’s 103. San Mateo County, a Bay Area county that reopened more aggressively, has more than double the death rate, at 15 per 100,000. San Francisco looks even better compared to cities and counties beyond California — with less than a tenth the deaths per capita as Washington, DC, and about a sixth as many as Franklin County, Ohio, where Columbus is, and Fulton County, Georgia, where most of Atlanta is....

Out of 57 Covid-19 deaths in the city, only one was a homeless person.

I am *very* surprised at that last. However, aside from an outbreak in one homeless shelter, it's possible that the fact that majority of the homeless spend their time *outdoors* might well have saved a lot of them - even though they don't practice social distancing or wear masks. Then again, since most people who get COVID-19 don't die, it's possible that a lot of homeless got it and treated it like any other cold or flu. Although one would expect, from the number of homeless who have comorbidities, that more than one would have died by now.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 9:15 utc | 124

Covid19 has got going here because we are not an "authoritarian state" according to many.
I guess that's why the military currently enforcing lockdown wear high viz vests over their camo's.

https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/12503252-3x2-xlarge.jpg?v=2

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 9:18 utc | 125

john brewster @59 is apparently gone for good, which is no great loss, but I do wonder if any of that poster's fellow travelers could clarify the economics of what jb claims. I still cannot wrap my feeble little mind around the notion that capitalists think they can fix their economy by burning it to the ground. This "Great Reset" simply cannot work in the good ol` capitalism that I know and love... well, maybe not the "love" part. The problem with capitalism that needs "resetting" is that wealth is too concentrated, and that excessive concentration chokes the marketplace. How can those people with all of the excessive wealth possibly "reset" things in such a way that there is new wealth in the marketplace without themselves losing that wealth they currently control?

OK, so they want to get their money grubbing paws on America's Social Security Trust Fund, but that is only 2 $trillion. Their "bailouts" to date are substantially more than that. In the larger scheme of things that amount is much smaller than the profits they are losing from having the economy deadlocked.

What else is there in the US? The public school system is the next biggest source of cash they can grab at around $700 billion, but to get that sum in the private sector requires parents that are well off enough to pay high tuition for their brats. Crashing the economy wrecks that market just as surely as it does the market for any other consumer item.

Outside of those two items the public cash the elites can grab in the US is just chump change, and even those two items are not worth the losses they are getting hit with from the economy being shuttered. How do the big finance elites make money off crushing the small businesses? The bank doesn't want the title to the pickup truck that Joe-Bob's Lawn Care Service depends upon. They want Joe-Bob to make payments on it. As well, crushing out the small players to make room for the big players makes no sense at all either. If it were profitable for Bechtel to run a lawn maintenance division that could force out the small players they would have done it already, and no need for a pandemic.

Never forget that "market" means people with the means to buy stuff, and the consumption side was already badly overextended before the pandemic. The pandemic just makes that worse.

"Reset" of the economy can only mean one thing: The wealthy losing their wealth and that wealth being redistributed. That is the only thing that can give capitalist markets renewed vitality. That is hardly something that the elites would deliberately engineer.

Think of it kinda like a game of poker in which the rules favor the winner of the last round. Eventually one player will end up with all of the poker chips and the rest of the players will have none. How is it then possible to "reset" the game without the winner losing all of his chips? Indeed, thinking that the guy with the big stack of chips would voluntarily divvy those chips among the players is ridiculous, but he certainly doesn't need a pandemic to to make that happen if he chose to do such a "reset".

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 31 2020 10:59 utc | 128

This virus does not start out as a respiratory virus. It starts out as hypoxia because the virus gets in the cells that carry oxygen from the lungs into the bloodstream. That is why HDCQ is effective. It allows zinc to get into the infected cells and kill the virus - if a person is treated early enough. The body's immune system does not have to overreact and go into a cytocene storm which causes the lungs to become inflamed and shut down, causing respiratory problems.

Posted by: lizzie dw | Jul 31 2020 11:29 utc | 129


Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 7:52 utc | 116

Stella Immanuel? I am not even sure she is a doctor after reading this unprofessional nonsense on her twitter TL. I surely wouldn't want to be treated by her no matter what. Her appearance with those other 'demi-gods in white' at Capitol Hill filmed by Breitbart News was definetely some kind of PR stunt.


Posted by: vato | Jul 31 2020 11:57 utc | 130

The childish frothy emotional blather in the comment section here is highly entertaining for me. I love watching chat board bullies lose their temper and behave like little children. Especially when they accuse others of being tribal while being tribal.

Not one of these bullies wants to reason with the physical problem of what to do with all the unemployed and newly homeless or those avoiding medical attention due to the opportunism and profiteering off of yet another natural crisis. They are too busy defending a position that rolling around in the problem and quoting the latest made to order stats to even see the problem.

"Apologies to other Americans here. I get a bit pissed off when some clown puts up a post as US being the center of the universe."

When it comes to military and covert fuckery, the US is the center of the universe so please deal with it. It's also at the center of monetary fuckery and propaganda warfare so anyone that thinks they have better information than anyone else is a fool. The internet was designed as a weapons system and is being used as one without a doubt.

With a $738tril. budget, deployments in at least 150 different countries around the world not counting mercenary forces, who use national security secrets to insider trade and fund themselves, I would have to say that the US is the center of the universe whether it offends your overly sensitive nature or not.

Ignoring the possibility that the "cure" for this virus with a 96%(?) survival rate might be far worse than the virus itself is where the tribalism lies in this chat. Pretending that medicine, science, and public opinion haven't been and aren't being manipulated to suit agenda(s) we're purposely not privy to, but that are constantly hinted at by our sociopathic mis-leaders and their psychopathic and pedophile owners is nothing short of stupidity.

We know the statistics are BS and have been from the start because of their very nature and the fact the CDC has admitted they are counting untested and SUSPECTED deaths and deaths of people already dying from other existing issues that test positive. They will continue to be BS until the next disaster takes over within our disaster capitalist system.

So funny how statistics have ceased to be questioned inside this forum as well as the same scientific and medical communities(industries) that have green lit and covered up so many profitable yet harmful products and occurrences for decades at least. Have a smoke while spraying your lawn for weeds, if you get cancer we'll prescribe you some heroin in pill form since it isn't at all addictive !


When every death is counted as a corona death, you'll have a lot of deaths. About 1 per day would be my estimate. Granted, I pulled that number out of my ass but how is that any different than the official narrative at this point ???

Posted by: dave | Jul 31 2020 12:09 utc | 131

Vk@10

Five minutes of exercise or labor leaves a lightweight surgical mask completely sodden. Have you ever in your life been on a construction site? Those structured breaks every 90 minutes are fantasy. Or perhaps hallucinations.

People with an utterly sedentary lifestyle are in charge here. Friends of the working man who have never worked. Having never worked and never exercised of course your immune system is incapable of doing much.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jul 31 2020 12:10 utc | 132

Den lille abe @103: "I do not really understand all this focus on the US...
The US is a third world country disguised as a first world country."

Because hundreds of millions of people around the world have completely bought into that disguise and want to remake their home countries into copies of America. Spreading the delusional desire to live a fantasy "Baywatch" lifestyle is a powerful tool of empire that gets stupid people to do stupid things like what we have seen in the Ukraine and Hong Kong. Exposing the truth about living conditions in the heart of the empire is an excellent antidote to that delusion.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 31 2020 12:18 utc | 133

b

I'm sure I won't be missed here despite all the years I've commented - the solidarity I used to feel for this place is gone.

This blog has become a hangout for baby bummers who think they are going to be able to live forever as long as everyone does exactly what the bummers tell us to.

MOA has become a left leaning version of Alex Jones. It's incredible to me that so many folks who used to look at government and world events critically are now a bunch of pussies willing to do whatever anyone in authority (they like) tells them to do. The math and science being promoted at this place is why left leaning folks can't ever get their shit together to change anything. What a bunch of fools.

Enjoy your echo chamber. I'll be enjoying the great outdoors, not wearing a mask and preparing myself for the coming crash. Enjoy eating shit, 'cause that seems to be the menu of choice of those who spend their days full of hate, which I think many of you must.

A reminder: we're all going to die. Let me say that again so the baby bummers get it: YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!

Get outside and live a little.

And Peter AU1... you're a member of the fucking Common Wealth, the British, the fucks who taught americans everything they know about empire. You bitch about americans thinking they are the center of the universe, what about you pseudo British assholes who still think the sun doesn't set on your shitty empire? I will say this for everyone whom you've pissed-off; FUCK OFF you're a hypocrite.

Posted by: David Shinn | Jul 31 2020 12:26 utc | 134

@ 128

Really ? You can't see the difference between wall street and main street ? When you can commit fraud with absolute impunity you don't need actual markets now do you ?

When you make the vast majority of the population financially insecure, terrified of congregating together and of each other it makes it extremely hard for them to unite anywhere but within the confines of your heavily monitored and increasingly censored social media platforms online.

The funny thing about markets is that they are political constructs and we all know who has always owned the politics despite which empire(s) they hide behind.

If you think there isn't organization behind this you're very naive. Whoever has the most gold makes the rules, whoever controls the most weapons keeps the gold, and whoever thinks those with the most gold fly by the seat of their pants isn't paying attention at all.

Posted by: dave | Jul 31 2020 12:35 utc | 135

Posted by: David Shinn | Jul 31 2020 12:26 utc | 134

British and yanks are the same shit from the same sewer..you probably are a die hard yank..so don't bother if you can't steal other's lunch no more..it's just the reality where the shitty usa will go..your anger is only the mirror of your frustration.so take your fucking soldiers and bring back them home from my country..you are not the center of universe you are a fucking occupier.If you all want to die with or without mask it's only your problem yank..the world will not weep for you.

Posted by: LuBa | Jul 31 2020 12:44 utc | 136

I am over in the US. I research various topics daily. I do it out of the joy of learning and also to “exercise my brain”.
Something i find interesting here is the conflicting information we get. I am not discussing the Main Stream Media (MSM) as it is entirely unreliable. I am focusing on the Center for Disease Control (CDC). Trying to use them as a resource is mind numbing. They produce studies with conflicting results on a regular basis.
Do people from other countries experience this?
On top of that, speaking with others here would have you convinced science is settled on various topics (like masks). Yet both sides of the argument can site studies from the CDC.🤦🏼‍♂️
Most in the US have lost the art of the conversation where you are open to hearing others and then investigating what they say if they cite things. Everyone seems to want an echo chamber.
Is this common in other places?!?!

Posted by: Kevin | Jul 31 2020 12:48 utc | 137

USA government is distributing USD 2 billion packages like candy to big pharma. This time, to Sanofi and GSK:

The deal with Sanofi and GlaxoSmithKline is the biggest so far with the U.S. government

Biggest, but not by much: USD 1.9 was given yesterday to another pharmaceutical company, and circa USD 1.2 billion to another one last week.

This is a very educative example of what is capitalism. Capitalism does not equal free trade. Capitalism also does not equal free competition. Capitalism also doesn't mean supply=demand. If that was the case, the USG wouldn't have to give fortunes to private companies so that they can cover the costs of investment: demand alone would automatically ensue investment for supply would be met by the free market.

No, capitalism is value that must create value, i.e. profit. It is the social concept of profit that defines capitalism, the differential between labor bought and labor output (surplus value). That's the essence of capitalism, what makes capitalism capitalism. The means to achieve that are irrelevant: it can or it can not use the "free market"; it can or it can not use wage labor; it can or it can not use slave labor; it can or it can not resort to genocide; it can or it can not use democracy; it can or it can not satisfy humanity; it can or it can not promote technological progress.

Posted by: vk | Jul 31 2020 12:50 utc | 138

AVOID PEACE IN EUROPE

Weapons lobbyist says we must "avoid peace in Europe".

Well, of course he did! When brushing his teeth in the morning he is
thinking about how to sell more weapons - "avoid peace".
When he is shaving, when he is having that first sip of coffee in the morning -
he is thinking about how to sell more weapons.

AVOID PEACE

Duh

Of course! a weapons lobbyist is thinking this. It is burned into his brain.

Even when, Especially when, he is given the job of US Secretary of Defense.

Mark Esper says we must AVOID PEACE IN EUROPE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=25&v=hvXdOSt2XC8&feature=emb_logo

Posted by: librul | Jul 31 2020 13:07 utc | 139

@60 Brewster. The overall messages of your post are spot on. Adding to that it has been very difficult for me to accept that this virus sprung unaided out of nature. If so it was the biggest boon for the financial elite and their RESET which is somewhat documented on the World Economic Forum website.

Posted by: Linda Amick | Jul 31 2020 13:09 utc | 140

dave @135

"When you can commit fraud with absolute impunity you don't need actual markets now do you ?"

Why not just print yourself mountains of little pieces of paper with Warren Buffett's face in the middle and big numbers in the corners and call yourself rich?

Do you really have no idea where wealth comes from and what it actually is?

"...it makes it extremely hard for them to unite anywhere..."

Talking of "uniting" in society so totally devoid of class consciousness as America is a sad joke. The best you can ever hope for is fighting among yourselves over artificial "identities" that the elites themselves create in their TV "programming" that they feed to you. So long as your "protests" remain scripted and within the ropes of the little "identity" pro wrestling rings the elites have created for you, they will never fear your "unity", because you will never have any.

Your understanding of economics and politics is upside down. Economics is fundamental and underlies all other aspects of society. Politics is just decoration that goes on top of all that. But then, the elites like it when people's understanding of society is bass ackwards. That keeps the plebes chasing their own tails.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 31 2020 13:23 utc | 141

@ Posted by: Linda Amick | Jul 31 2020 13:09 utc | 140

There won't be any reset. The Western Civilization will never rise again.

Posted by: vk | Jul 31 2020 13:37 utc | 142

Dear Friends and foes,

On norwegian prime minister "panic": ok it was not panic:
https://www.nrk.no/norge/solberg_-_-alle-tiltak-var-kanskje-ikke-nodvendige_-men-de-var-riktige-1.15032053
It was "out of fear" only. "Jeg tok sikkert mange av avgjørelse ut ifra frykt."

On Ferguson: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/02/prof-lockdown-neil-ferguson-admits-sweden-used-science-uk-has/

On masks in Sweden: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity.html (Dated APRIL in full virus mode)

Regards


Posted by: Roberto | Jul 31 2020 14:12 utc | 143

Sars-Cov causes one disease: pulmonary fibrosis leading to pneumonia.

The Covid-19 science problem - in three parts:

Part One: For the sake of propaganda, there is no unified understanding of the disease

Posted by: Cox I Daf | Jul 31 2020 14:13 utc | 144

William Gruff @Jul31 10:59 #128

Outside of those two items [Social Security and Public School System] the public cash the elites can grab in the US is just chump change, and even those two items are not worth the losses they are getting hit with from the economy being shuttered.

1) US Govt pays for most of the healthcare cost of the elderly. When elderly people die sooner, they save a bundle.

2) China owns over $1T in Treasury Bonds. US Govt has begun steps to seize those bonds and other Chinese assets:

  • Congressional Legislation Introduced to Allow Americans to Sue China Over Harm Caused by Covid-19

    Introduced by Senator Tom Cotton in the Senate and Congressman Dan Crenshaw in House of Representatives, the legislation, if passed and signed into law, would amend the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act to create a narrow exception for damages caused by China's handling of the outbreak

    Modelled after the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act, which 97 members of the Senate had voted in favour of in 2016, the bill makes clear that that covering up the virus and causing it to spread faster or further than it otherwise would have can be considered a tortious act.

    It also gives the US a powerful tool to get China to pay for the damage it has caused. If the United States and China come to an agreement to settle the claims, then the private suits could be dismissed, the bill proposes.

  • Senate Committee Moves To Allow Americans To Sue China Over COVID-19

    Marking the culmination of a process that began more than a month ago, a Senate committee is backing a bill that would allow Americans to sue China for failing to stop the coronavirus pandemic.


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 31 2020 14:19 utc | 145

@ William Gruff #141 who wrote
"
Talking of "uniting" in society so totally devoid of class consciousness as America is a sad joke. The best you can ever hope for is fighting among yourselves over artificial "identities" that the elites themselves create in their TV "programming" that they feed to you. So long as your "protests" remain scripted and within the ropes of the little "identity" pro wrestling rings the elites have created for you, they will never fear your "unity", because you will never have any.

Your understanding of economics and politics is upside down. Economics is fundamental and underlies all other aspects of society. Politics is just decoration that goes on top of all that. But then, the elites like it when people's understanding of society is bass ackwards. That keeps the plebes chasing their own tails.
"

Damn, that is nice.

In your comment # 128 you wrote the text below that I want to comment on
"
Think of it kinda like a game of poker in which the rules favor the winner of the last round. Eventually one player will end up with all of the poker chips and the rest of the players will have none. How is it then possible to "reset" the game without the winner losing all of his chips? Indeed, thinking that the guy with the big stack of chips would voluntarily divvy those chips among the players is ridiculous, but he certainly doesn't need a pandemic to to make that happen if he chose to do such a "reset"
"

I keep writing about the public/private finance civilization war but agree that on the private side there is a destructive process going on at the top. I see the very top of the West as those that have owned the tools of finance and slowly, much property and businesses throughout the world. Back in the last century they subsumed the oil/energy world and they are trying to do the same now with technology.

But that is a top down world that does not scale to support masses while the bottom up world example shown by China makes the West look like the barbarism it still really is.

We shall see what will come to pass.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 31 2020 14:29 utc | 146

See my previous post above at 121 for the projections for San Francisco, which are quoted in this article.

SF projects dire COVID figures for worst case scenario, but how accurate are they


Dr. George Rutherford, professor of epidemiology at University of California, San Francisco, mostly agrees with the city's assessment and current projections. While the current R0 score is just north of 1 — substantially lower than it was a week or so ago — the figures the city predicts for the near future likely still hold weight.

"They have been accurate in the past," Rutherford says of projections for up to 4-6 weeks ahead. "As you go out further it's anybody’s guess. We use a variety of inputs to get estimates for where things could be, [but] it's not like we have a pool about this or are betting on it. They’re meant for planning purposes. If [Colfax] is putting those numbers out there, that's what they're planning on."

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 15:07 utc | 147

to John Brewster # 59. Thank you. You have said much much clearly what I have been saying and thinking for a long long time. It is very difficult to engage people in discussion of the larger issues which you so clearly enumerate. I
don't know why. The apathy, hostility, etc etc virtually guarantee that the reset will be successful. Alas.

Fortunately I have lots of books and quercetin, I mean red wine.... cheers

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Jul 31 2020 15:27 utc | 148

for all the thoughtfulness and reasoned viewpoint that john berwster offered, i can't wrap my head around the motive of someone who would refer to moa as a cesspoll, as to why they periodically come back to comment? or was this just a result of his viewpoint being challenged??

"And I won't be coming back for another spin in this cesspool.
Its been fun - NOT.
Posted by: john brewster | Jul 31 2020 5:17 utc | 94"

@ 102 peter... i really agree with your viewpoint there! for me language can be a playful thing.. i don't take it as seriously as maybe i should, but it serves a good purpose too... language on the internet is more critical perhaps.. we don't get all the subtle non verbal communication skills that happen in real life...

@ 134 David Shinn.. some of us are getting out and living! i have yet to wear a mask where i live... i see people on my regular walks and the outdoors is a regular part of my daily routine.... i don't believe moa is an echo chamber and i don't believe everyone here shares the same view on everything either... we all live in different places and have to process the situation in our specific location to the best of our abilities.. i just don't care for the generalizations that get made on others, including those who do post at moa... cheers..

@137 kevin.. re echo chamber.. good question.. i think people want to offer up their views and like to back it up with stats... unfortunately as you note - the stats can be used a number of ways... bottom line - and this is my thinking - people don't like living with uncertainty and at present we are in a time of uncertainty... in order to avoid, or ward off the uncertainty people resort to selective reading of info, conspiracy theories and all sorts of opinions or viewpoints that may or may not be ultimately legit... in a time of uncertainty - uncertainty reigns... this really bothers a lot of people...

Posted by: james | Jul 31 2020 15:39 utc | 149

just to add on my concept of uncertainty and how it drives most people crazy - all the talk about masks or face shields, hcq, fort detrick, and etc. etc... most of the questions around all of this no one really knows... life is a mystery.. maybe science will figure it all out one day... we are putting face in science the way people in the past put faith in religion... some of it will stick, but other theories won't hold up upon greater research... i guess i am okay with degrees of uncertainty.. i don't see everything as black and white, but there is a lot of grey and etc inbetween too... a lot of the really polarized viewpoints seem to reflect the present political environment in the usa today... many people can't seem to imagine a more nuanced position that could hold some opposites in their thinking... well, this is my best attempt this morning to say what i think.. i give myself maybe 65% for trying and getting some of it...

Posted by: james | Jul 31 2020 15:45 utc | 150

@ 148 miss lacy.... unfortunately i don't read @ 59 john brewster the same way as you... let me quote the post - "I came back for this one post, to say "wake up, suckers". You are being robbed and your rights are being stolen. " it's a condescending comment... to say our rights are being stolen is nothing saying anything new... we are living in a corporate run world in the west... whether is it the financial crash of 2008, a pandemic or non pandemic, or whatever it is - this is the way the system of neo-liberalism, and capitalism works as i understand it..

i am pretty sure john b is an american and a number of people posting at moa are american... as peter au notes above - the world doesn't revolve around the usa 24-7 in spite of how or what some americans might think.. will an elite or small percent take advantage of the masses? of course.. it is always the way it has been...

Posted by: james | Jul 31 2020 16:19 utc | 151

"First they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out
Now they want me to wear a mask and my panties are all in a bunch over it."

It is really hard to take some people's complaints seriously.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 31 2020 16:46 utc | 152

I appreciate John Brewster posting the link to the article by Ellen Brown, which elaborates on how the banks have managed the largest heist in history while using COVID as a smokescreen. When you also consider the work done by Cathryn Austin Fitts and Professor Mark Skidmore, which uncovered $21 trillion in unaccounted or unsupported Federal expenditures during the period 1998 through 2015 (see the link for documentation), you have to understand that we see only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the theft and fraud that has been perpetrated by the criminals controlling the banks and the US Federal government.

COVID is real and dangerous, but trusting the "facts" coming from captured organizations like the WHO and the CDC is like accepting the economic data coming from the Treasury/Federal Reserve. There are many reputable scientists and physicians who have provided counter-arguments to the current policies of the CDC and WHO, and their counter-arguments are now routinely censored via social medida and not covered by MSM, and any attempts to have a debate in a public forum is prevented through intimidation.

I believe that is what Brewster was trying to point out and I tend to agree with him. I don't give a damn if someone on this blog decides to call me a moron but I do think it is a real mistake to not see the forest for the trees in what is going down globally, using the biosecurity pathway to total social control total corporate ownership, and total loss of freedoms in the reset now being imposed from above.

Posted by: Perimetr | Jul 31 2020 16:56 utc | 153

Perimetr @Jul31 16:56 #153

Maybe you haven't noticed ...

... that I and others at moa have pointed out the bank bailout several times over the last few months - starting from the day they were announced (Trump Administration's first action once Trump ignored the virus to the point that it became a national emergency)

... that the faux libertarians have generally ignored the Wall Street bailout in their numerous complaints - they are much more concerned about hyping the horrors of wearing masks

... that Brewster's comment is in consistent with others in the thread that have an antagonistic POV and/or are empty except for negativity toward moa/b - such attacks seem to be coordinated because we see the same thing every time b writes a post that is coronavirus-related

... that the faux libertarians are hyping "moron" as another way to attack moa - no one at moa is adverse to honest debate and a difference of opinions; concerns, problems, and objections about masks and lock-downs have been answered many times

... that we've seen the same sort of manipulations of debate in public forums like moa whenever powerful interests want to exert their influence - it seems likely that these faux libertarians are paid by Big Pharma or Trump Super-PACs

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 31 2020 17:34 utc | 154

@ 153 perimetr.. aside from what jackrabbit says - pscyhohistorian, karlof1 and a number of others have pointed out ellen browns take - which has not changed from quite a long time ago and is captured in her book ''the web of debt''... like i said - he is pointing out something that has been pointed out numerous times here at moa.. some are going to capitalize on any type of disaster, or non disaster.. it is the nature of capitalism and our present neo-liberal system.. john's attitude is a condenscending attitude - ''you suckers'' and shite like that, which doesn't fly with some of us here... if you are okay with that - fill your boots...

Posted by: james | Jul 31 2020 17:40 utc | 155

Thanks for the posted link. Very interesting article. It's predictable that everything has to go into a left-right poltical battle. What does shock me is no one in power anywhere in the world is looking into the creation of this virus. Was it meant to be a bio-terrorist weapon ? Maybe it was made for vaccination profits? Or perhaps an excuse to chip us? Whatever its purpose you would think the why and who of this virus would matter.

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Jul 31 2020 18:36 utc | 156

Interesting how California now has the highest daily cases after five weeks of mandatory masks. :-O

Involvement of heart and lung and sense of smell is nothing unusual, happens with every flu, but nobody cares.

Meanwhile, epidemic in Sweden is over, schools stayed open, bars stayed open, average age of death beyond 80.

Most of you guys still wearing your N95s when buying toilet paper probably had the virus back in March and didn't even notice it.

So please stop the panic porn and enjoy life.

Posted by: justaflu | Jul 31 2020 19:17 utc | 157

I guess most of you guys are slowly realizing how you supported the destruction of the world economy, pushed hundreds of millions into joblessness, homelessness, poverty and famine, and therefore are clinging to some single cases of a heart attack or whatever.

It was a unique moment in life, more important than 9/11, and you failed, because you were fearful.

Posted by: justaflu | Jul 31 2020 19:23 utc | 158

Justaflu: Go fuck yourself, asshole.
I got flu last year, never lost my sense of smell. Heck, my lungs weren't touched either, as far as I could tell - unlike the previous big annoying event 15 years earlier, when I woke up coughing badly in the middle of the night, though there as well it was over after 5 days.
I also got tested for covid back in May and for antibodies in early July, both negative (as I expected, but I've always been a proponent of mass-testing, so you have to put your money into what you believe in if you want to act seriously).

Now, there's something that B overlooked in the graph of US cases: Trump has been pushing hard to reduce the level of testing, and the change in the curve happened exactly when cases ceased to be reported by CDC but were officially tallied by the Trump administration itself - so take these numbers with a grain of salt, they're at least as fake as Chinese or Russian numbers ever were, and most probably way worse, something on par with Belarus, N. Korea or Tanzania probably.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jul 31 2020 20:27 utc | 159

US oligarchs taking candy off babies is an occurrence that is as regular as sunset and sunrise. Just another day in the life of America.
SARS-CoV-2 and Covid19 however isn't a regular occurrence. It is not business as usual. The countries that thought they could tough it out and ignore it are forced to bring in lockdowns when their hospitals are at or past capacity. The oligarchs in the US are pinching some candy, but mean time the country is collapsing around them - the collapse greatly accelerated by Covid19.


Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 20:29 utc | 160

Clueless Joe

A week or so back, white house decided all numbers had to go through them before being released to the public. A post a link to it at the time. I guess CDC gives the numbers to the white house where they are massaged into shape before being released to the Public.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 20:52 utc | 161

@ justaflu.... wow... thanks... and how are you doing things differently? coming to moa and enlightening us like this? lol.... i doubt there is much of a career for you in humour, and i don't know anyone who will take seriously what you say either, as there is no real content being provided! well, that is not completely true.. you mention to enjoy life.. thanks! nothing has changed on my end and all the negative stereotypes you feel entitled to toss randomly here at moa is one more reason to not pay attention to anything you say - except the last line of course - enjoy life, which i do agree with...

Posted by: james | Jul 31 2020 21:25 utc | 162


Please, stop the panic. Myocarditis and olfactory loss is common even with the common cold:

1) "Many viruses are commonly associated with myocarditis, including the viruses that cause the common cold (adenovirus); COVID-19; hepatitis B and C; parvovirus, which causes a mild rash, usually in children (fifth disease); and herpes simplex virus." https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/myocarditis#1

2) Long term serious olfactory loss in colds and/or flu : https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23948436/

And cloth masks never worked before and won't work now. N95 may be better but you can't (and shouldn't) wear them all-day.

3) " Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza." https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

My feeling is that the blog author and many of his readers may have panicked early in the pandemic and now aren't able to calmly review their position without some cognitive dissonance.

Posted by: no panic | Jul 31 2020 21:27 utc | 163

158

China had the v shaped recovery that others fantasized about. The glitch in there economy was just that, a very short blip on their ever increasing economy. You only have your own politicians and culture to blame if you can't pull off the same thing.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 22:06 utc | 164

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 20:29 utc | 160

Peter you're pretty sharp guy. Two or three weeks ago, these are known facts, China finally contained Covid-19. Beside Vietnam, HK, South Korea, Japan, Singapore and few other countries in the same category... While US, Brazil, India blazing uncontrolled. Revisit today - China clusters popping up, call it 2nd or even 3rd wave in Xinjiang, Jilin, Beijing and HongKong, so is Japan, even "safe" country like Vietnam and Singapore. Now, stop and thinks, if previous countries, provinces and cities’ recurrences, guess what will happens to US, India and Brazil in 2021 and 2022. Like you said "Covid19 however isn't a regular occurrence. It is not business as usual." Damn fucking right!

Since April, 2020 followed China's vaccines development. They had three approved vaccines in April/March completed phase1&2 clinical trials, heading into phase three. Sinopharm's China National Biotec Group (CNBG), CanSino and Sinovac Biotech. All-in-all China, five innovative vaccines were approved for clinical trials. For human sake at least one of them least problems and no side affect. These China approved, vaccines are now phase three Clinical trials in UAE, Indonesia, Brazil, Abu Dhabi, Canada and few more countries. From what I found, China able to manufacture few hundred million’s dosages immediately and building more plants... Indonesia, Abu Dhabi, Brazil had already been building new plants for immediately production if proven affective. Lastly Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte needs the vaccines immediately and calls Xi Jinping to help. Africa and Latin America survives depends on China. China alone can do it.

Jakarta (ANTARA) - Deputy State-Owned Enterprises Minister Kartika Wirjoatmodjo confirmed that PT Bio Farma (Persero), on July 20, received the COVID-19 vaccine from Sinovac

https://en.antaranews.com/news/153158/bio-farma-receives-covid-19-vaccine-for-phase-3-clinical-trial

Posted by: JC | Jul 31 2020 22:29 utc | 165

My feeling is that the blog author and many of his readers .........................

my feeling is that many of these '' one time posters'', or the one poster who keeps on ragging on under different names are really boring and don't have anything to say other then to be negative on moa...

Posted by: james | Aug 1 2020 0:27 utc | 166

"SARS-CoV-2, or the virus that causes the disease COVID-19, is a new virus that we still know very little about. Not only can the virus cause severe pneumonia and lung failure, but it can also cause unique cardiovascular injury. In some patients with COVID-19, the stress from the infection and inflammation causes small heart attacks that can be identified through blood tests. In other patients and for reasons that we don’t understand yet, COVID-19 causes clotting within the blood vessels that can result in heart attacks and strokes.

In addition, the virus can directly attack the heart muscle itself and cause a disease called viral myocarditis. Myocarditis can happen to anyone of any age and it is unpredictable who will become severely ill. Sometimes, the virus causes so much damage to the heart muscle that patients die from rhythm abnormalities or shock because their heart can no longer function."

How does anyone know it is from Covid-19? It could be the flu virus that led to complications later in life. The flu virus can cause diabetes in future in 'some' patients. The flu virus can cause serious heart complications in 'some' patients in future. The flu virus can cause lungs scarring in 'some' patients in future. Was there any study conducted to see if flu virus caused extensive heart muscle damage? Everyone had the flu at least once in their life time.

Posted by: Tommy | Aug 1 2020 2:18 utc | 167

james 149

Words can be used for poetry, or lyrics for a song. There is also the the saying 'The pen is mightier than the the sword'.
Well I can't write poetry, I can't write songs, and my written word I doubt will inspire anyone to anything.

A few commented on how pretty Brewster words were. It takes balls to wield a sword - not a wilting willie.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 1 2020 2:42 utc | 168

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 7:52 utc | 116

Well, some 65 counties have used chlorquine and its derivatives with azithromycin and zinc, as well as vitamins C and D to mitigate (not "cure", a matter of semantics, I suppose) the effects of Covid 19. China and the country I am living in , Turkey, are two fo those countries. Similarly, they have used the Japaneses drug Favipirivir with similar success.

The Turkish health system has not claimed any drug to be a "cure all" for Covid 19, but chloroquine has been effective when used properly at the beginning stages of the disease, not the later stages. They use it particularly when someone appears with symptoms in a hospital. They then test that person and track those that have been in close contact with that person. They test those people and if they test positive begin to treat them with choroquine, etc. This is Turkey's test and track system.

This has reduced the number of deaths due to the virus in Turkey to fewer than 5,700 (17 more registered in last 24 hours), at this writing. Turkey's population is estimated to be 84,339,067.

I do find it odd that otherwise critical thinkers on MOA and even b can gainsay the usefulness of this drug combo when it has proven to be effective in so many countries. Is it Trump derangement syndrome that is responsible? Even when a Lancet article has to be retracted by its authors due to its questionable (fraudulent) premises and results, people still want to diss the treatment by taking it out of its medical context.

Perhaps b should do an article on the manner in which Big Pharm (or even Big Agri) have coopted and corrupted the university and medical research institutes and publications. A classic case was the Olivieri case. here is a review of the case and a book published about. And a comment on the inadequcy of the book.

"The facts go something like this. In 1996 Nancy Olivieri, a haematologist working at the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto, came to believe that an experimental iron chelating drug (deferiprone) that she was trialling in patients with thalassaemia was losing efficacy and causing serious adverse effects. Apotex, the company that made the drug and that was partly funding the trial, disagreed. When Olivieri indicated that she intended to inform participants of her concerns, Apotex terminated the trials and withdrew financial support. They invoked a confidentiality agreement in the research contract and threatened legal action if she made the findings public. Undeterred, Olivieri presented her results at a scientific meeting and submitted them for publication."

As for the book about the case:
"The Olivieri story raises other questions too. Why are whistleblowers treated so badly by the institutions in which they work? What is it about the structures, vested interests, or collective psychology of these institutions that leads, at best, to whistleblowers being marginalised and often to them being vilified and dismissed? Another is about the failure of research ethics committees to consider how the financial and legal arrangements between researchers and pharmaceutical companies impinge on the safety and rights of trial participants. And, most fundamental of all, how should society fund biomedical research institutions and biomedical research?

It is disappointing that Schuchman's book hardly touches on these issues."

For Covid 19, it isn't just about corrupting universities and publishers, but politicizing an issue to promote corporate profits and disrtact citizens from equal or greater problems.

In many ways, Brewster was correct in his main post, as was JR or VK, maybe, in pointing out that the culptrit was, as I like to term it, the neoliberal virus.

Covid 19 is clearly being used by the people who rule over us to divide and distract us from their increasing efforts to enrich themselves in terms of wealth and power at our expense. Of this, few commenters here seem to care. Look over there! See that virus! Don't look here, behind the curtain. Nothing to see here! Coming to b's site would certainly see the virus only.y.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Aug 1 2020 9:47 utc | 169

The WHO estimates between 350k and 650k die in large part each year of the flu.  Covid-19, the 7th coronavirus to spread since 2002, has helped kill 600k so fat.

Sweden is the only Western nation that did not seize on this year's bad flu season as a massive power grab opportunity.  As planned, Sweden has now almost reached herd immunity with only a handful of Swedes dying each day.  All with no business closures, empty schools or facemasks needed.

Up to 82% of people are incapable of becoming seriously ill ftom the virus.  Especially in Southeast Asia, the built-up immunity is especially widespread since earlier coronavirus strain outbreaks were concentrated there. The healthy very seldom die from the virus, children almost never.

The best news this week is a chart comparing the use of HCQ among nations. Deaths are fewer by two-thirds in the nations that allowed the early sustained use of the prescribed combination.  Once applied globally,  the outbreak will end altogether, no vaccine needed.

This is the worst news possible for US Big Pharma and its comic cheerleader, Anthony Fauci.

Lockdowns and facemasks have proven to be a political stunt, as so proven by Sweden's experience.

The humiliation of the brutal Woken Left will prove complete.

In case you wanted to know how a free Republic would assess Covid-19.

Posted by: Liberty Blogger | Aug 1 2020 11:35 utc | 170

i suppose it was inevitable that a covid chat room full of pudgy, sedentary, aging white dudes would devolve into mostly fearsome anecdotal coverage and sanctimonious ho-hum...

well, my old man, who's 97, frail, but lucid, in a higher-end assisted living arrangement in Maryland, contracted covid a couple of weeks ago. it came with a mild fever which dissipated quickly, no other symptoms, and then went. no treatments.

the poor guy was almost disappointed.

Posted by: john | Aug 1 2020 11:55 utc | 171

I wear all sorts of respiratory protection on a regular basis. Everything from a double layer cloth mask (now) to 1/2 face P100s to full face P100 or P100 combination filters to SCBA kits. I have to trust my life to them in situations like entering an area with an acid spill where the acid gas level was high enough to turn my lungs to jelly in minutes. Or in work areas where hazardous materials like asbestos are being removed to protect my long term health. Mostly I have to wear respirators to deal with issues so that they don’t present a public health hazard. Now I wonder what the point is since so many people don’t believe in things they can’t see.

Wearing any respirator sucks. Wearing a cloth mask is such a minor thing. And as someone who gets medical fit testing and does respirator fit testing I can say that all these “I can’t wear a mask” people are full of shit. Abatement workers that live on energy drinks, cigarettes and beer pass the medical qualifications to wear much more restrictive masks for 10 hour shifts. The US is simply a nation of sissies. And if you have a medical condition that makes it impossible to wear a cloth mask, you shouldn’t be out in a respiratory pandemic. Hell, my wife with an autoimmune disease and only 50% of her lung function left can wear a cloth mask no problem. If you can’t manage it, you’re a sissy.

Posted by: Lex | Aug 1 2020 12:08 utc | 172

Blue Dotterel @Aug1 9:47 #169

IMO there are valid criticisms of b's coverage of Covid. But the pro-business faux libertarian crowd don't seem to care about anything except knocking mask-wearing and lockdowns.

The two problems that I have with b's coverage is:

  1. Ignoring the campaign against Hydroxychloroquine + Zinc

    The mechanism of action has been proven in a lab. The only question is how effective it is as a treatment. Anyone can see that there is a deliberate campaign against HCQ+Zinc as a treatment from Trump's personal advocacy (a kiss of death to HCQ) to bogus studies using dangerous dosages.

  2. Claiming that Trump made innocent mistakes in fighting the virus

    I vehemently object to this point of view. Trump is allied with or in sympathy with everyone that benefits from NOT fighting the virus: Big Pharma, anti-China asshats, racists. There were too many "mistakes" to believe that 150,000 Americans are dead simply due to incompetence.


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 1 2020 15:15 utc | 173

@ peter au.... i like and share your view here as well - " It takes balls to wield a sword - not a wilting willie."

@ john... thanks for sharing the personal story on your dad! that is positive!!

Posted by: james | Aug 1 2020 16:43 utc | 174

Sorry, but it's difficult not to see "Jared's Secret Testing Plan" as a red-herring. Vanity Fair is not that cynical. But their article reveals how the Trump Administration has succeeded in their goal of allowing SARS-COV-2 to spread to further corporate and Deep State interests.

How Jared Kushner’s Secret Testing Plan “Went Poof Into Thin Air”

Six months into the pandemic, the United States continues to suffer the worst outbreak of COVID-19 in the developed world. Considerable blame belongs to a federal response that offloaded responsibility for the crucial task of testing to the states.

. . .

This summer has illustrated in devastating detail the human and economic cost of not launching a system of national testing, which most every other industrialized nation has done. South Korea serves as the gold standard, with innovative “phone booth” and drive-through testing sites, results that get returned within 24 hours, and supportive isolation for those who test positive, including food drop-offs.

. . .

“We know what has to be done: broad and ubiquitous testing tied to broad and effective contact tracing,” until a vaccine can be widely administered, Shah told Vanity Fair. “It takes about five minutes for anyone to understand that is the only path forward to reopening and recovering.” Without that, he said, “Our country is going to be stuck facing a series of rebound epidemics that are highly consequential in a really deleterious way.”

. . .

On April 21, the Rockefeller Foundation released a detailed plan for what it described as the “largest public health testing program in American history,” a massive scale-up from roughly 1 million tests a week at the time to 3 million a week by June and 30 million by the fall.... (Last week, the CDC issued new guidelines that enthusiastically endorsed reopening schools and downplayed the risks, after coming under heavy pressure from President Trump to revise guidelines that he said were “very tough and expensive.”)

. . .

On July 15, in a video call with journalists, Dr. Shah looked visibly frustrated. The next day, the Rockefeller Foundation would be releasing a follow-up report: It called on the federal government to commit $75 billion more to testing and contact tracing, work to break through the testing bottlenecks that had led to days-long delays in the delivery of test results, and vastly increase more rapid point-of-care tests.

Though speaking in a typically mild-mannered tone, Shah delivered a stark warning: “We fear the fall will be worse than the spring.” He added, putting it bluntly: “America is not near the top of countries who have handled COVID-19 effectively.”

Just three days later, news reports revealed that the Trump administration was trying to block any new funding for testing and contact tracing in the new coronavirus relief package being hammered out in Congress. As one member of the Rockefeller coalition said of the administration’s response, “We’re dealing with a schizophrenic organization. Who the hell knows what’s going on? It’s just insanity.”


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 1 2020 16:52 utc | 175

@149 James, who said:

"for all the thoughtfulness and reasoned viewpoint that john berwster offered, i can't wrap my head around the motive of someone who would refer to moa as a cesspoll, as to why they periodically come back to comment? or was this just a result of his viewpoint being challenged??

"And I won't be coming back for another spin in this cesspool.
Its been fun - NOT.
Posted by: john brewster | Jul 31 2020 5:17 utc | 94""

Dude (JB) wrote a very cogent post, then went on for several more posts griping about how MOA is a "cesspool" and he's leaving now, never to return. Meanwhile his post got a lot of response, about 80% of which was praising, but a few being somewhat critical. I guess he's one of those -dish it out but REALLY can't take it- types.

Posted by: jonboinAR | Aug 1 2020 17:51 utc | 176

More on the Trump Administration SUCCESS at spreading SARS-COV-19

A March 18th paper cited gastro-intestinal symptoms like diahrrea as indicative of Covid-19. It was widely reference in MSM like this one from Business Intelligence: Some coronavirus patients experience nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea before they get a fever. It could be one of the first signs of COVID-19.

But CDC didn't add GI symptoms as a possible early indicator of Covid until early July: Nausea, diarrhea are now official symptoms of COVID-19: CDC - about 2 1/2 months later.

Why the delay? Who is responsible? US MSM apparently doesn't care to ask such questions.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 1 2020 18:53 utc | 177

I'm surprised no one here is debating Hydroxychloroquine. B I can't seem to find anywhere on here where you have talked about it. Why???

Posted by: Connie | Aug 1 2020 19:06 utc | 178

@176 jonboinAR... he'll be back... he seems well intentioned for the most part!

Posted by: james | Aug 1 2020 19:37 utc | 179

II am not surprised at the arguments of the"covid19 is a hoax" fraternity.

After all, a common trait of humanity is the propensity to minimize danger. We will take all kinds of testimonies if they allay our fears.
We will raise a finger, and with it, hide the sun. As long as our fears are placated.

When it comes to means of controlling the spread, we take offense at anything that curtails our activities, or controls them. Social distancing is "unconstitutional". Mask wearings is a "blatant attempt on our liberties".

We even question the reality of the threat!

Then, interest sets foot and we have all kinds of arguments from those that want the herd to go back to work.

Unfortunately, one of these anti mask advocates will breath upon you the covid19 of doom and send you to Heavens?

The intelligent are at the mercy of the minus habens.

Dire straits for Humanity.

Posted by: CarlD | Aug 2 2020 3:03 utc | 180

Strange that I don't find a thought in either b or the MSM about the flight crews and the soccer players who keep working and get tested repeatedly to ensure they don't contaminate others, but still have to accept the idea that they are risking their lives to keep their job. Cannibalistic ultra-liberalism at its best!
MSM have decided to limit the number of infected players at 5 for psychological reason obviously...(5 in Alabama, 5 in Saint-Etienne, 5 in Barcelona, 5 in Nashville... lol)
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/alabama-football-at-least-five-players-have-reportedly-tested-positive-for-the-coronavirus/
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/sports/covid-19-hits-french-football-club-5-positive-cases/1882276
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2020/06/304746/5-barcelona-fc-players-reportedly-tested-covid-19-positive-recovered/
https://en.as.com/en/2020/07/06/football/1593994852_666019.html

Posted by: Mina | Aug 2 2020 11:40 utc | 181

"People have been so spooked by the state-sanctioned Project Fear that they believe TENS OF MILLIONS have died from Covid-19"

"The survey was conducted between 10-15 July 2020. In the perception versus reality section of the survey, 1000 adults were questioned in the UK, USA, Germany, Sweden, and France.

Two questions were posed which required people filling in percentages: How many people in your country have had coronavirus? How many people in your country have died from coronavirus?

The results are astonishing: to the first question relating to the numbers who have contracted C-19; people in the UK answered 22 per cent (4 times higher than official figures); in the USA, the answer was 20 per cent (20 times greater than confirmed cases); in Germany, the answer was 11 per cent (46 times greater than confirmed cases); in Sweden, the answer was 16 per cent (20 times confirmed cases) and in France, the answers was 12 per cent (46 times confirmed cases).

On the numbers of deaths, the figures are even more exaggerated: in the UK, the response was 7 per cent (100 times greater than confirmed deaths); in the US, the answer was 9 per cent (225 times greater than the confirmed deaths); in Germany, the answer was 3 per cent (300 times greater than confirmed deaths); in Sweden, the answer was 6 per cent (100 times greater than confirmed deaths); and in France, the answer was 5 per cent (100 times greater than confirmed deaths).

So in real terms, the public in the UK think 4.6 MILLION people have died of Covid there, rather than the actual 46,000. In the US, people believe 29.5m have died from it, rather than 155,000." https://www.rt.com/op-ed/496796-project-fear-covid-pandemic/


Or :

"Another way we know that something isn’t quite right is to look back to 2018. It didn’t get too much coverage at the time but that was a particularly bad winter for excess deaths in the UK. In January 2018, 64,157 people sadly died in England and Wales, a 42 percent increase on the December 2017 figure.

“Circulating influenza” was named as a contributing factor for the spike. The flu claimed the old and the young, as detailed here.

Even allowing for the over-counted Covid/Coronavirus figures (it was revealed earlier this month that Public Health England was counting as virus deaths anyone who had tested positive and who had died subsequently of any cause, many more people died in one month in 2018 than have died from the virus in the UK in 2020."

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/496540-uk-masks-covid-epidemic/

So why is it you guys weren't pushing masks in 2018 ??

Why is a site dedicated to debunking media hype not reporting the effects of this media hype on the world ?

Do you all think this fear mongering and verbal abuse is justified ?

Posted by: dave | Aug 2 2020 12:29 utc | 182

"Claiming that Trump made innocent mistakes in fighting the virus

I vehemently object to this point of view. Trump is allied with or in sympathy with everyone that benefits from NOT fighting the virus: Big Pharma, anti-China asshats, racists. There were too many "mistakes" to believe that 150,000 Americans are dead simply due to incompetence."

Are you really that naive ? You actually think this ? How does big Pharma benefit from not treating COVID ?

You have no proof 150,000 people died of COVID. Most died "with" COVID or just died and had COVID stamped on their death certificate.

So funny to watch this forum descend into a pro propaganda site. Now anyone that disagrees with this pack of self righteous trolls is a racist !

On top of that, anyone that gets disgusted with the MOA instant expert cult and leaves needs to made and example of and trashed.

That's just petty shit right there.

This site has gone to shit due to the Trump sized ego's of the MOA troll patrol. I find it very interesting to watch the tribal nature of these petty little creatures.

Posted by: dave | Aug 2 2020 12:47 utc | 183

Dave,
No, of course it is not justified, and the way the MSM have been comparing figures per country rather than per 100,000 or per Mo for each country was part of the trend from the beginning.

Posted by: Mina | Aug 2 2020 12:49 utc | 184

"john's attitude is a condenscending attitude - ''you suckers'' and shite like that, which doesn't fly with some of us here... if you are okay with that - fill your boots... "

Correction : That doesn't fly unless it's one of your little cult doing it.

Posted by: dave | Aug 2 2020 12:57 utc | 185

Re: CarlD | Aug 2 2020 3:03 utc | 180

Well said.

It's likely that a goodly percentage of them will remove themselves from the gene pool before long, and go on to that giant Nuremberg rally in the ground.

Sad, though, the number of decent folks that they'll infect before they take their departures.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Aug 4 2020 0:12 utc | 186

The science cherrypicking of B is just breathtaking. Numerous studies of both medical mask and N95 respirators show they don't affect incidence rate of influensa, not even among health professionals. How does Influenza spread? Tiny aerosols! just like sars-cov2. Masks work one way but not the other? Gimme a break! If the particles can pass one way they can pass the other. There is no one-way magic here.
Besides no government have mandated N95s only anyway, so we should all agree they are full of it!


Posted by: ERDMAUL | Aug 4 2020 13:02 utc | 187

@ ERDMAUL | Aug 4 2020 13:02 utc | 187

"Masks work one way but not the other? Gimme a break! If the particles can pass one way they can pass the other."

Ignorance speaking again. That's the whole point. The N95 mask has a middle layer that holds an electrostatic charge. Everything that tries to pass through is attracted to the charged layer.

I wish people would just do a little research before they waste other people's time reading such blithering nonsense.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Aug 4 2020 18:10 utc | 188

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