Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 30, 2020

Covid-19 Update - Heart Damage And Aerosols

In 2019 the U.S. was ranked as the country best prepared for a pandemic. This year it is again at the top. As the Wall Street Journal headlines:

U.S. Leads the Globe as Coronavirus Deaths Pass 150,000, Hospitalizations Rise

The Washington Post adds another highlight:

U.S. reports 1,400 coronavirus deaths in a day — about one per minute


bigger

The number of new cases in U.S. have somewhat peaked for now as the sunbelt states have taken some measures to decrease new infections. But I am afraid that the trend down will (again) be very slow and that we will see another rise as some other states - Ohio, Tennessee, Indiana and Kentucky - show upticks in new infections. They may be the next ones who will get into trouble. The curve of new deaths from Covid-19 follows the new cases curve by three to four weeks. Deaths will probably peak at the end of August.

The economic damage the pandemic has caused in the U.S. is extreme:

The U.S. economy shrank at an annualized 32.9% rate in the second quarter — the worst-ever contraction on records that date back to 1947, the government said on Thursday.
...
The staggering contraction beats the last record set in 1958, when GDP shrank at an annualized 10% rate.

Interestingly the contraction in 1958 was a direct result of the 1957/58 H2N2 influenza pandemic.

Globally the situations is mixed. South-east Asia seems to have the problem under control. India is a mess. South America has huge problems. Western European countries seem mostly okay for now but I expect another big rise there as people are beginning to lose discipline. East Europe looks bleak. There is little reliable dataavailable for the Middle East and Africa.

Over the last six month scientists and doctors have learned a lot about the virus and the diseases it causes. I use the plural here as the virus is causing so many different troubles that it is hard to see them as one malady.

A number of professors at the UCSF have written a very good piece which describes all the different effects they see in their patients:

We Thought It Was Just a Respiratory Virus - We were wrong.

When the pandemic reached Europe there were discussions about the published numbers of Covid-19 death. Had people who had heart attacks and were positive for Covid-19 died from Covid-19 or with Covid-19? Those who argued against lockdowns and masks believed that most of the heart attack deaths did not come from Covid-19 and that it was wrong to include them in the total Covid-19 deaths number. But the extensive damage the virus directly causes in a multitude of organs makes it clear that Covid-19 was most likely the direct cause of all those deaths.

There was recently a similar conflict in Idaho about the death of a pediatric nurse practitioner who had died of a heart attack caused by Covid-19:

The post, which Rep. Tammy Nichols, a Middleton Republican, shared Wednesday without comment, pointed out that Samantha Hickey, who died two weeks ago at 45, suffered a heart attack. The post by Cate Tedeski implied that Hickey’s death was somehow being misrepresented by the news media to scare the public.

It linked to an Idaho Statesman story that reported how Hickey, who worked for St. Luke’s Health System, died of a heart attack after contracting the coronavirus.

The cardiology doctor who had cared for the nurse practitioner went public and described the case:

SARS-CoV-2, or the virus that causes the disease COVID-19, is a new virus that we still know very little about. Not only can the virus cause severe pneumonia and lung failure, but it can also cause unique cardiovascular injury. In some patients with COVID-19, the stress from the infection and inflammation causes small heart attacks that can be identified through blood tests. In other patients and for reasons that we don’t understand yet, COVID-19 causes clotting within the blood vessels that can result in heart attacks and strokes.

In addition, the virus can directly attack the heart muscle itself and cause a disease called viral myocarditis. Myocarditis can happen to anyone of any age and it is unpredictable who will become severely ill. Sometimes, the virus causes so much damage to the heart muscle that patients die from rhythm abnormalities or shock because their heart can no longer function.

Sadly, Samantha Hickey died from cardiac shock due to COVID-19 myocarditis. She was an otherwise healthy 45-year-old before becoming infected.

Heart problems caused by Covid-19 are widespread. Consider this study which looked at cardiac changes in the MRI of people who have had Covid:

Findings: In this cohort study including 100 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 identified from a COVID-19 test center, cardiac magnetic resonance imaging revealed cardiac involvement in 78 patients (78%) and ongoing myocardial inflammation in 60 patients (60%), which was independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and the time from the original diagnosis.

Two third of those people had not even been hospitalized. They were 'mild' cases. The heart damage in the 60% of the people who have had Covid-19 may be permanent. Even otherwise healthy people can have this outcome. Red Sox pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez is one of those casualties

Moreover the CDC has now acknowledged that some 35% of those who had a symptomatic Covid-19 cases have not fully recovered even after 2-3 week. This includes the 'long haulers' like Hannah Davis who recently gave this update:

I just crossed the 4 month mark of being sick w' #COVID19. I am young, & I was healthy. Dying is not the only thing to worry about. I still have a near-daily fever, loss of cognitive function, essential tremors, GI issues, severe headaches, heartrate of 150+, viral arthritis, 1/
heart palpitations, muscle aches, a feeling like my body has forgotten to breathe. Over the past 124 days I've lost all feeling in my arms & hands, had extreme back/kidney/rib pain, phantom smells (like someone BBQing bad meat), tinnitus, difficulty understanding text/reading, 2/
difficulty following conversations, sensitivity to noise & light, nonstop bruising. *Thinking* can cause headaches now. I'm not alone in the cognitive issues; it's as common a symptom as cough.

No one knows when #longcovid patients aren't contagious; many are alone for months.
...

Long term effects of Covid-19 are not rare. In Spain over half of coronovirus patients have developed neurological problems.

While we have learned a lot about the virus and the diseases it causes there are even more things we do not know. Many young people, most of whom do not have to fear death from Covid-19, seem to assume that the virus will spread to nearly everyone and therefore do not care about getting infected right away. That is a stupid idea:

With each passing month, researchers are learning more about how to best treat the sickest patients. While there still is no cure, there is now some evidence for how to use treatments such as remdesivir and dexamethasone, said Dr. Abraar Karan, an internal medicine doctor at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, so arguably, your chances of survival are better now than in February. “The longer you wait to be infected, the less chance you have of being part of an experiment, and the better chance you have to be receiving the outcome of a well-done experiment,” he said.

I had long assumed that The SARS-CoV-2 virus spreads mostly by aerosols in rooms with air conditioners. It was the only explanation for several superspreading events described in the early literature. The dozen people who were infected in a restaurant in Guangzhou had all been sitting in the cycling airstream of an air conditioner. Some 50 cases in a one floor call center in Singapore also pointed to air conditioning as the distribution element. The many cases in a large outbreak in a German meat processing plant were also caused by aerosols in a air conditioned atmosphere. A detailed analysis of that event is here. The authors summarize:

In conclusion, this study indicates that transmission of SARS-CoV-2 can occur over distances of at least 8 [meter] in confined spaces under conditions of relatively low air exchange rates and high rates of recirculated unfiltered air.

People infected with SARS-CoV-2 spread droplets and aerosols when they speak, sneeze or cough. Air conditioning systems also dry the air while cooling it. In dry air droplets from an infected person lose their water content very fast and turn into virus carrying aerosols. Aerosols do not sink to the ground. Air conditioning systems can spread them very effectively.

Air conditioning system in modern airplanes use HEPA filters that catch aerosol size particles. N95 (FFP2 in Europe) masks do the same. For all of those who work with other people in a closed environment in which unfiltered air conditioning is used I recommend to wear a mask.

There is research about other viruses that support this recommendation:

In contrast to the neglected importance of aerosols fomites have received way too much attention. Their risk was exaggerated. The chance that some virus in a droplet on some surface makes it into ones nose is very small. That is why I have not wiped one surface for fear of Covid-19 and have never changed my hand hygiene. The deep cleaning is nonsense. Such Hygiene Theater Is a Huge Waste of Time.

For air conditioned public rooms and offices upgrading to HEPA-filters in air conditioners should have the highest priority. Unless that has happened masks should be made mandatory in such places.

Posted by b on July 30, 2020 at 18:23 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Her heart attack might have been triggered by her constant mask wearing, decreased amounts of oxygen intake, and re-breathing carbon dioxide from her own breath. Add in potential pharmaceuticals she might have been on, her lifestyle ( was she overweight ?) , her diet, and she might have been a smoker.

Posted by: Fog of War | Jul 30 2020 19:15 utc | 1

Considering all the various mutations, can we cease calling it Chinese flu and just call it the TRUMP flu?

Posted by: Eugene | Jul 30 2020 19:31 utc | 2

Thanks for the excellent and ongoing COVID coverage.

US = 1,000+ deaths / day and damn proud of it.

Posted by: snow_watcher | Jul 30 2020 19:34 utc | 3

Immune related issues are not much fun. Generally only a small percentage of people have them. SARS-CoV-2 however looks to trigger an over the top immune response in many people, with inflammation doing far more damage than the virus itself. The lingering effects for many is likely to be continuing immune response.

As for aerosols, I think with SARS-CoV-1 there was a case in Hong Kong where a large number of people caught it from air conditioning.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 30 2020 19:35 utc | 4

“I had long assumed that The SARS-CoV-2 virus spreads mostly by aerosols in rooms with air conditioners.” All I needed to know was that it’s spread through the air. I started wearing homemade masks and bought a HEPA air filter for the house, two simple precautions among others such as hand washing, distancing, and avoiding confined spaces that have been recently crowded. I own a couple N95 masks from my workshop that I will use if things get really bad and I can’t avoid confined spaces.

Yet the medical community took the position that they would NOT be proactive on simple steps to avoid airborne transmission. For a couple months they counseled against masks, under the guise that they were NOT 100% effective. A competent CDC would have said: homemade masks are simple and easy, so let’s recommend their use until proven ineffective. The downside of such a recommendation would been trivial. But the cost of NOT recommending a simple prophylactic has been incredibly high—IMO professional negligence.

Now these morons are repeating the stupidity by ignoring the roles ventilation:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/07/why-arent-we-talking-more-about-airborne-transmission/614737/

Posted by: JohnH | Jul 30 2020 19:40 utc | 5

@ the disinformationists posting @ #1 and #2

N95 Masks DO WORK, and the Proof is Available All Over the Net!

There has been so much oh-so-earnest and so much oh-so-authoritarian nonsense bruited about on this site about the non-effectiveness of the N95 masks that it's getting really, really disgusting. It also calls into question either the honesty (trolls?) or the intelligence of those who could so easily have just looked up the information from, and about, the inventor of the N95, Dr. Peter Tsai.

If they had done just that little bit of research, they would have discovered that the N95 works because of an inner layer of plastic fiber that carries an electro-static charge that attracts and destroys the virus, and that can be cleansed and sterilized for re-use by a number of different techniques.

Please do not believe any of the contra-factual and sometimes dangerous nonsense being spewed about by people who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Oh, and N95 masks are not all “vented to breathe straight out without filtration.” Not those intended for medical use, for certain. There are some vented N95 masks that are intended for firefighters and other non-medical usages, and not for protection against viruses. And as you can see below, the electric charge attracts even sub-micron particles, so the idea that the mask cannot trap viruses because they're too small is simply more nonsense from uninformed and/or deviously motivated individuals.

//

Here's just a small sample of information that's easily found all over the net:

Brief bio: Peter Tsai, Ph.D.
Employment: Research faculty, Joint Institute of Advanced Materials, The University of Tennessee, Knoxville
Expertise: Development of meltblowing (MB) systems and the electrostatic charging (EC) of materials for making air filter electrets. The MB and the EC developed by Tsai have been used in the industries worldwide making tens of billions of pieces of N95 respirators or face masks. He has received three prestigious awards from UT in recognition of his contribution to technology innovation. Tsai is a Fellow Member of American Filtration and Separation Society and a member of Electrostatic Society of America.
https://utrf.tennessee.edu/information-faqs-charged-filtration-material-performance-after-various-sterilization-techniques/
//
Peter Tsai and the Electrostatic Filter Mask
https://engineeringethicsblog.blogspot.com/2020/04/peter-tsai-and-electrostatic-filter-mask.html
“Prof. Tsai's innovation was to find a way to take a cold pre-fabricated mat of non-woven material and subject it to two electric discharges of opposite polarity, one after the other.  Under the right conditions, this process embedded quasi-permanent electric charges into the plastic fibers and made them very attractive to even sub-micron particles, like the 100-nanometer-diameter SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes COVID-19.  The charge is durable and will persist even if the masks are sterilized with steam, according to a new article that Prof. Tsai just put up on a University of Tennessee website.'
//
The retired inventor of N95 masks is back at work, mostly for free, to fight covid-19
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2020/07/07/peter-tsai-n95-mask-covid/
//
More technical information for those curious enough:
https://aim.autm.net/public/project/53844/

//

Finally, let's dispense with a couple of other oh-so-popular misconceptions:
“Q: Do face masks cause oxygen deficiency?
“A: The prolonged use of medical masks when properly worn, does not cause oxygen deficiency nor CO2 intoxication, according to WHO. Make sure your face covering fits properly and that it is tight enough to allow you to breathe normally.
“ 'This is a common misconception being perpetuated that has no evidence behind it,' said Krutika Kuppalli, a Palo Alto infectious disease doctor and a biosecurity fellow with the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security.

“Q: Does wearing a face covering put you at risk for carbon dioxide poisoning?
“A: No. CO2 molecules diffuse easily through everything from bandannas to medical masks to N95 respirators, allowing for normal breathing.”
Aidin Vaziri. San Francisco Chronicle

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jul 30 2020 19:55 utc | 6

Buena suerte Roberto. En la boca cerrado no entran moscas.

Posted by: C | Jul 30 2020 20:06 utc | 7

Thanks B. for your stance on Covid. You stay loyal to yourself and to the truth despite those here in their black and white worldview.

People like Roberto using arguments against your Covid coverage which you have already disproved beyond reasonable doubt time and time again. I guess while this could be cured by reading, some here are beyond even that.

At this point to spread that Covid is just a "fake" shows how a major part of Alt. Media is even more stupid and close minded that a huge part of MSM. How ironic.

Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr | Jul 30 2020 20:16 utc | 8

Posted by: Roberto | Jul 30 2020 19:00 utc | 1

" Please stop spreading panic. ...Lockdown are destroying economy, mask are useless and potentially dangerous."

You said your piece. Now STFU

Posted by: JC | Jul 30 2020 20:22 utc | 9

@ Posted by: Fog of War | Jul 30 2020 19:15 utc | 2

The problem with your hypothesis is in the fact that doctors and nurses have been using N95 masks for decades. Other workers from the construction sector have also been using it.

If the N95 mask was the culprit, then we would've already seen enough data showing an epidemic of heart attacks among nurses, doctors and construction workers.

N95 masks do impair saturation - but only in low-oxygenated environments (i.e. you can't do too much physical work with one for too much time). But hospitals are projected to be easy on the body for nurses and doctors (elevators everywhere, relatively few floors, well connected system of corridors etc. etc.), so they can dislocate easily (with minimum physical effort) while doing their jobs. Construction workers who need to use the N95 have already developed specific labor journeys so that they have regular resting periods after each 90 min or even less. You'll never be able to run a marathon with an N95, but, with the correct culture, you can do productive labor with it without any significant risks to your heart and brain.

And even nurses and doctors (even surgeons) do not always use N95, but simple surgical masks made of cloth. Those kind of masks do not affect saturation at all, and you can even do exercises with them. Those are the masks the vast portion of the population of the USA is using, so we're not talking about risks to them, too.

Posted by: vk | Jul 30 2020 20:30 utc | 10

The flattening and decrease of daily new cases in the US is a positive sign, but I am concerned there will be more to come in September - associated with return to school.

According to US dept of Education, there are nearly 20 million college and graduate students, and 50 million "k-12" students. If even half of them return to in-person classes before the epidemic has been suppressed in general, as is the case, they will certainly be getting sick in large numbers.

Although the health risks are low for student age, they can of course infect others, starting with parents and teachers.

More troubling is the impact on testing. The school calendar is synchronized within a month, meaning that students would at once consume all the testing resources now existing in the US, simply by attempting preventarive testing. If the obvious result takes place, this will continue to consume all the new planned test capacity for the remainder of the year. This is known but not widely discussed. The CDC does not recommend universal testing of students currently, I think because the resources don't even exist. But what is the consequence?

This situation is not unique to the US, and many other countries have even fewer testing resources.

Posted by: ptb | Jul 30 2020 20:32 utc | 11

b, as a pulmonologist, I could not agree more with your recommendation to upgrade air-conditioning systems to HEPA filters. This is why the cruise ships turned into disaster ships.

Posted by: Tiger | Jul 30 2020 20:34 utc | 12

Does this blog has been bought up by Bill and Melinda?

Posted by: Cosmos | Jul 30 2020 20:51 utc | 13

ptb 12

As far as I know, still a four day wait at minimum for test results here in oz. Anyone who takes a test must quarantine until test results come back. Four months or so into the virus, there should be sufficient testing capacity to give results the same day.

The bug could easily have been eradicated here but wasn't. First lockdowns and self imposed quarantines were effective as people generally seemed to obey them. This time around, the lockdowns don't seem to be as effective as enough people ignore them to keep the bug spreading.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 30 2020 20:53 utc | 14

SOME NUMBERS....

Another 1.416 million Americans filed new claims for unemployment benefits last weekOur politicians want to encourage people “to go back to work”, but for millions upon millions of Americans the jobs that they once had are gone forever.

52 million Americans have filed new claims for unemployment benefits over the past 18 weeksBut many people that live in rural communities are feeling pretty good aboutthings right now. Even though more than 52 million Americans have filed new claims for unemployment benefits over the last 18 weeks, the official unemployment rate in many rural counties is still in the single
digits.
New York’s unemployment rate rose to 20.4% last month, according to state-level data issued
Friday by the Bureau of Labor Statistics that detailed figures for some large metro areas. That’sup from 18.3% in May and 15% in April.
Los Angeles, the second-largest U.S. city, has seen a similar level of joblessness.Its unemployment rate recovered slightly in June but remains startlingly high — at 19.5%, versus 20.6% in May, according to data published Friday by California’s Employment Development Department.

Census Bureau says that things are particular dire for Black and Hispanic renters…This month (JUNE), nearly 28% of Black renters say they haven’t paid last month’s rent, and \about 46% say they have slight or no confidence they’ll be able to pay next month’s rent, according to figures from the Census Bureau’s Household Pulse Survey. Hispanic renters face similar economic strain: 22% say they missed last month’s rent and 46% fear they won’t make rent next month.

In April, 78% of those in households experiencing job loss felt that that situation would be temporarily. But now, 47% think that job loss is likely to be permanent, according to The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research.

19 percent of all U.S. small businesses were closed, According to Jefferies,
Nearly a quarter of all small businesses in the entire country are closed
And the really bad news is that many of them will never end up reopening
As many as 76,000 small businesses in New York City – a third of the 230,000
citywide – may never reopen after forced to close during the COVID-19 lockdown,
business leaders have warned.
Nearly half of all small-business members of the San Francisco Chamber of Commerce lost 100% of their sales or closed down completely.

Yelp says that a whopping 60 percent of the restaurants that were initially listed as“temporarily closed” on their site are now classified as permanetly
closed...

Air travel is another industry that is being absolutely devastated by this pandemic.After a modest bounce in June, the number of air passengers is starting to fall again.The resurgence of coronavirus infections is derailing the travel industry’s modest recovery. The number of air passengers processed through TSA security lines fell during the week ended July 20, compared with the prior week, according to Bank of America. This metric is down more than 70% from a year ago.

United (UAL) CEO Scott Kirby told CNBC on Wednesday that the airline doesn’t “expect to get anywhere close to normal until there’s a vaccine that’s been wiely distributed to a large portion of the population” !! (Hello Big Pharma Inc.)

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/
(Whatever one might think about that blog, but most numbers are proberly back up
with so callled serious sources aka links.)

Posted by: Ashino | Jul 30 2020 21:09 utc | 15

Thanks b. The mask - a simple and elegant precaution in high risk environments. But so much foaming hysteria and opposition from pumped up nay sayers its just like the response to the early motor car or the mandatory seat belt. Extraordinary, hyperventilated nonsense and inflamed debating points.

I assume this noise is to distract from calling it by its proper name - Fort Detrick Flu.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 30 2020 21:14 utc | 16

@Peter AU1 15
Anyone who takes a test must quarantine until test results come back.

Yes here also (upstate NY). Strikes me as a disincentive to get tested unless you actually have symptoms. (not to mention the likelyhood of getting surprise-billed by the insurance bureaucracy). Wait times are now something like 2 days, but look at Florida etc -- they are rationing tests and if you're not in a hospital it's like a week, which is useless.

The policy of the big university here is they're going to have an extremely strict 2 week quarantine, essentially locking half the students in their on-campus housing. Delivering them food during this time. 2 weeks of prison but with good internet. Regular testing thereafter. Off campus housing, however, is do-whatever-you-feel-like, except they still must get tested. The U. contracted out some presumably sufficiently large number of tests with 24-hour turnaround time. This is possible because they are a top tier institution though. No way the majority of the schools can make this happen.

Posted by: ptb | Jul 30 2020 21:20 utc | 17

B still avoids any scale discussion. Death rates have dropped from 5% to 1% to .26% and probably much much lower it seems. The reaction of the scare mongers is to avoid any mention of this and talk about secondary effects.
So is it 10 serious affected for 1 death or 1 seriously affected?
And are 20-70 year olds facing any real risk or is it just 2 or 3 times the death rate of these groups.

The economic damage the pandemic has caused in the U.S. is extreme:

The U.S. economy shrank at an annualized 32.9% rate in the second quarter — the worst-ever contraction on records that date back to 1947, the government said on Thursday.
...
The staggering contraction beats the last record set in 1958, when GDP shrank at an annualized 10% rate.

Although most of the media misunderstood this, doesn't really excuse it here as we have high expectations.

An annualised 32.9% means the quarterly raate x4. Since this is a one off effect multiplying by 4 is deceptive.
GDP dropped by 8% in the quarter.
Still worrying and the key question is how long will it take to revive. 4 years seems likely to me.

b doesn't discuss it, but I'm pretty sure that the Economic collapse will kill far more people that the Covid virus. To be fair to Trump (or Johnson or anyone outside Sweden), riding out the Covid virus became politically impossible when the media (with b backing them) took the line that the virus was the only threat in town.

Posted by: Michael Droy | Jul 30 2020 21:28 utc | 18

I really appreciate b’s Covid updates, but they always seem to bring knuckleheads out of the woodwork. One wonders why they are monitoring the MoA website, let alone contributing ignorant posts. What is their ulterior motive? Wouldn’t their time be better spent on anti-science conspiracy websites? Oh wait, that is where they spend most of their time.

Posted by: Rob | Jul 30 2020 21:46 utc | 19

The cost of herd imunity.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-31/coronavirus-covid-19-us-economy-record-plunge/12509976
"The US economy has shrunken at a dizzying 32.9 per cent annual rate in the April–June quarter.

It is by far its worst quarterly plunge, and has thrown tens of millions out of work and sent unemployment surging to 14.7 per cent, the US Government said on Thursday (local time).

The Commerce Department's estimate of the second-quarter decline in the gross domestic product marked the sharpest such drop, according to records dating back to 1947."

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 30 2020 21:48 utc | 20

Posted by: Cosmos | Jul 30 2020 20:51 utc | 14

"Does this blog has been bought up by Bill and Melinda?"

Troll advice: be grammatically proficient if you want to be clever.

Otherwise, there is a world-wide epidemiological event and b is offering intelligent commentary on it. Perhaps one can politely disagree with details but moronic statements like this are a waste of everyone's time.

Posted by: Patroklos | Jul 30 2020 21:51 utc | 21

Yankistan IQ

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-30/louie-gohmert-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-donald-trump/12506114
""It's really ironic, because a lot of people have made a big deal out of my not wearing a mask a lot. But in the last week or two, I have worn a mask more than I have in the whole last four months."

Mr Gohmert then wondered if his mask was to blame for contracting COVID-19.

"But I can't help but wonder if my keeping a mask on and keeping it in place, that if I might have put some germs or some of the virus onto the mask and breathed it in — I don't know. But I got it, we'll see what happens from here, but the reports of my demise are very premature," he said."

The 'mask'.
https://am23.mediaite.com/tms/cnt/uploads/2020/07/louie-gohmert-mask-coronavirus-positive.jpg

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 30 2020 21:59 utc | 22

about a decade ago there was outbreak of TB in Seattle I was a nurse at the time. We were told by infection disease at the time if we were to see TB patients we had to wear an individually fitted respirator... every nurse was fitted and red pepper was sprayed around the masks to test the fit. I couldn't wear one ... and was told I could wear a surgical mask but that it would only provide about 30 min of protection and then I would need a new mask... Now tell me why me way a fashion mask, a bandanna or scarf can protect me or another from a virus (which is much smaller than a TB bacteria?
I just drove from coast to coast across the US. I avoided large cities and felt perfectly comfortable with social distancing. I was in two states that never had a "true" lock down and no mask mandates,,,, and you know what people weren't dropping like flies, people weren't afraid... they were just acting respectful to one another"s personal space.

Posted by: dp | Jul 30 2020 21:59 utc | 23

Let's see now... we have an aerosolized pathogen; shades of the discussion in 2001 regarding weaponized Antrax! We have, seemingly, a very low number of mutations; it's either been out there or cultured for some time. No one has any 100% accurate test; the test criteria of Koch's Postulates seem to have been forgotten or ignored. In the dearth of trustworthy data, the deluge of untrustworthy data, and the general level of greed-generated-mistrust towards all western societal organizations, no one in the general public has the proper knowledge to make life-or-death decisions concerning themselves or their families. Perhaps, rather than the "Trump flu" that the partisan-oriented commenter proposed previously, if a large group of people called it instead the "Fort Detrick Flu," western governments might be persuaded to seek and/or spread truthful data.

Posted by: John Iacovelli | Jul 30 2020 22:03 utc | 24

Roberto is what folks in Latin America would deem is "un gusano sin vergüenza'. A willing neo-colonial lapdog for the ghoulish intelligence agencies. You can disregard this sad waste of matter. The governments of Brasil & Ecuador are willingly allowing their countries to succumb to COVID-19. Bio-genocide, in other words. It's a nightmare.

Posted by: dimitrov | Jul 30 2020 22:04 utc | 25

Thank you, b. I too have not taken seriously the disinfecting protocols since early studies on virus longevity on doorknobs etc. were quite emphatic that one would have to have been in close proximity to somebody who had 'moistened' the area with mouth or nose infected mucus, and then yourself have performed a rapid contact with your own mucus membranes for this to be possible as a transmission vector. Always remembering, however, that the exception proves the rule, and in the case of the second outbreak in China in Beijing, there did seem to be a contact made in the handling of frozen fish previously contaminated presumably by infected workers, with the immediate storage of same being able to prolong the life of the virus. So, the 'wash your hands' precaution is probably a sensible one to retain.

Similarly, I think, it is just not worthwhile answering folk who continue to raise oppositional arguments in the face of what b is presenting here. I can only assume such are paid antagonists whose salary depends on having someone answer their provocations directly. b has not been silent about the ravages virus management is causing to the economy. That is not in dispute. But correct use of masks and air conditioning with appropriate filtering and continuous flow from outside air are the obvious answers to that problem.

Here in the west where dry air is more prevalent, aerosols in combination with poorly filtering air conditioners during summer's heat are perhaps more dangerous than they would be in more humid environments. That may be why the numbers have skyrocketed hereabout. At home we don't have an air conditioner; we use a 'swamp cooler', which humidifies and cools the air very effectively. That plus plenty of indoor plants - I suspect it is the healthier way to go. I used to work in a greenhouse - huge fans and all the plants made for a wonderful work environment during the summer. So, go plant shopping; wear your mask but enjoy the atmosphere!

Posted by: juliania | Jul 30 2020 22:11 utc | 26

dp @ 24
Perhaps it would help to answer you question by passing on this ———
I just listened to the main bbc news U.K. main item ——
Britain re-imposed Lockdown on a huge area of Norther England after a new virus spike has occured !
1.5 hours notice, starting tonight at 12 pm.
The course of this new spike ?
People disregarding the’mask’ regulations and not indoor social distancing.
Also it was noted the change in age group infected. Ie MUCH YOUNGER.
You guys need to start facing reality not trumps sick agenda.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 30 2020 22:17 utc | 27

@ dp | Jul 30 2020 21:59 utc | 24

The purpose of the mask is to stop (asymptomatic) carriers of the disease from spreading it, or at least dramatically reduce the spreading. The mask limits outgoing aerosols, not incoming ones.

Moreover, rural areas where people spend a lot of time outdoors and generally meet only a limited amount of different people are much less likely to be affected by the initial phase of a pandemic than densely populated cities where most people spend most of their days closely packed with numerous other random people in badly ventilated indoor places such as offices, factories, subways.

Posted by: Lurk | Jul 30 2020 22:24 utc | 28

Herman Cain dies, the timeline attends Tulsa rally on 6/20 https://www.foxnews.com/politics/herman-cain-hospitalized-after-testing-postive-for-coronavirus, tests positive for Covid on 6/29 (FOX story reported on Thrs of that week). Cain pictured surrounded by screaming, MAGA's aerosolizing spit all over him.
Favorite quote from story: "'There is no way of knowing for sure how or where Mr. Cain contracted the coronavirus"
Yeah, it's a real mystery.

The Harpy, Laura Ingraham shrieks, that anyone who makes this connection is disgusting (well she specifically referred to mask wearing but dances around issues to deflect blame from Trump)
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1288898409773043715

BTW the death rate in the U.S. has climbed back up to 3.25 or almost 40% from its all time high.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jul 30 2020 22:35 utc | 29

@ John Iacovelli | Jul 30 2020 22:03 utc | 25

If this is indeed the "Fort Detrick flu", as many people here (including me) have speculated upon, do you really believe that "western governments might be persuaded to seek and/or spread truthful data."

I would rather expect these governments (and the lackey media) to cover up all traces of the initial outbreak, classify all high level government briefings about the subject and drown any rational and fact-based discourse in a swamp of hysterical projections and divisive diversions.

Posted by: Lurk | Jul 30 2020 22:35 utc | 30

Michael Droy @Jul30 21:28 #19

I'm pretty sure that the Economic collapse will kill far more people that the Covid virus.

The vast majority who die from the effects of a severe downturn will be killed by neoliberal policies that have exacerbated it and the Trump Administrations inept response to the virus NOT the couple of months of lock-downs that was need to slow the virus once it started spread in USA.

US expansion was the longest on record when the pandemic hit. That's because Trump tax cuts and gutting of regulations had produced a sugar high for an expansion that was already weak and weakening. US had never fully recovered from the 2008-9 recession aka "Global Financial Crisis" (GFC). The Fed just continued to add QE stimulus that extended the "bubble economy". (Note: US financial institutions STILL don't mark to market.)

<> <> <> <> <>

It's remarkable, really, that just as the economy would likely have gone into recession, Trump got a 'stick save' from the pandemic. Also remarkable that the Saudis timed their ARAMCO IPO so well: about two months before the pandemic threat became known. Wow.

Trolls will rush to tell us that there's nothing to see here. It's just normal, everyday Orb economics.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 30 2020 22:38 utc | 31

Indeed, as regards COVID19 compulsive surface cleaning does seem to be a case of "Hygiene Theater." It's something showy that make it look like something is being done to put people at ease, even if (for THIS virus) it's relatively unimportant.

But never forget, COVID19 is not the only disease out there, and many of these others really are spread by surfaces. For example, there is a long established correlation between infection rates in hospitals and a lack of "hygiene theater."

COVID19 is just a wake up call. We have a planet of 8 billion people and climbing, all increasingly jammed in together, and a large and growing part of that world has a standard of living inferior to medieval Europe (yes really). We have been ignoring the germs, coasting on our past successes with antibiotics and vaccines, but nature is not done with us yet.

Bottom line: yes, wash your hands.

Posted by: TG | Jul 30 2020 23:16 utc | 32

Roberto, I hope to Zeus they're paying you for pushing this blatant misinformation.

Posted by: dimitrov | Jul 30 2020 23:25 utc | 33

@Lurk

"persuaded" is more rhetorical than realistic, certainly. But it doesn't hurt to try. In the case of the tobacco industry and cancer, for example, it took decades, but eventually when 90%+ of the general public saw the link, even the industry had to admit it. And governments, corporations and the powerful spend an awful lot of money to keep the truths of many of their horrible actions from the media... yet some of that information seeps through. We must hope and do what we can.

May your "Fort Detrick Flu" be mild!

Posted by: John Iacovelli | Jul 30 2020 23:28 utc | 34

"Death rates have dropped from 5% to 1% to .26% and probably much much lower it seems." - Michael Droy @19

No. It's a 7% death rate.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
U.S. Total Recovered: 2,277,569
U.S. Total Deaths: 155,000
155,000 / 2,278,000 = 0.068 => 7%

Unless you can predict the future, you don't know the death rate until the person either recovers or they die. This has held steady for many weeks.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jul 31 2020 0:01 utc | 35

@ b who wrote
"
The economic damage the pandemic has caused in the U.S. is extreme:
"

The pandemic is a set up for the economic damage more than it caused itself, IMO. The economic system started crashing last September. Empire has been in frantic mode. in case you hadn't noticed, to find a patsy to blame for the economic crash. I believe that response to the pandemic was designed to project the most economic impact to cover for the financial structural deficiencies underneath. Jobs going away to automation is not a new trend, nor is reduction of consumption due to less disposable income.....there really has been no economic recovery for the masses since 2008.

And that great Man for Humanity, as some here still believe, Trump has been proposing things like suspending the payroll tax which would kill the Social Security Insurance program, pushing back the election to a better time`and deflecting responsibility for the hundred thousand and counting dead because Empire is designed for profit, not people and comparison with China's results are telling.

This is what living under the dictatorship of global private finance provides for the masses which pales in comparison with public finance centered nations.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 31 2020 0:05 utc | 36

The whole mask "debate" is the perfect way of spotting the people who are dangerous sociopaths. The kind of people who should be shipped to the courts for manslaughter in the current situation. And definitely the kind of people who should be listed officially, so that they'll be denied any medical attention if they ever catch Covid.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jul 31 2020 0:07 utc | 37

b: The economic damage the pandemic has caused in the U.S. is extreme

Senate Committee Moves To Allow Americans To Sue China Over COVID-19

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 31 2020 0:18 utc | 38

In other news I have seen online, I intuit that the Western MSM will very soon focus obsessively on a coronavirus outbreak in Xinjiang region in NW China.

So far there have been 254 confirmed cases with 73 recoveries and 3 deaths.

Of course The Fraudian frets that a mid-July outbreak in Urumqi which then jumped to Kashgar (300 km away) will threaten the one million Uyghur people incarcerated in the concentration camps that so far have escaped being photographed by US satellites and their images made available to the likes of Bellingcat and similar "citizen journalist types" who work with open-source material.

Posted by: Jen | Jul 31 2020 0:19 utc | 39

SARS-CoV-2 from early on has appeared to trip something in the immune system in a lot of people. The various forms of arthritis are perhaps the most common immune related condition. Out of curiosity I tried a search using "arthritis SARS-CoV-2"

First search result was this.
"Case of acute arthritis following SARS-CoV-2 infection"
https://ard.bmj.com/content/early/2020/06/25/annrheumdis-2020-218281
"In a recent issue of ARD, López-González and colleagues reported case series of acute arthritis during COVID-19 admission; the authors concluded that all four cases of acute arthritis in their report were due to crystal-proven gout flares or calcium pyrophosphate deposition disease.1 Here we would like to share another case of COVID-19 presenting delayed arthritis without crystal deposition."

I guess the only unknown now is what percentage of people will have ongoing health issues due to even a mild bout of Covid19. Something those countries that have made very little effort in containing the virus will very much regret in the future.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 0:22 utc | 40

The one certainty in the USA is that you are on your own. 150,000 dead is not small change. There is a good chance survivors will have comorbidities. Hotspot hospitals are running out of doctors and nurses. It is prudent to avoid other people if you can and lower risks any way you can. Stay alive. Essential workers, elderly and convicts are dying. The horror is that this is likely on purpose. The pharmaceutical industry will earn billions from a patentable vaccine or treatment.

Nancy Pelosi’s decision not to test the House of Representatives and isolate them into a work pod like the White House shows she has no idea what is happening much like her corporate manager donors. The Elite have no intention of restoring a national public health system to fight the pandemic as nations in Eurasia and South Pacific are doing. Hundreds of thousands of Americans lives are dependent that an effective and safe vaccine and/or treatment will be found. There is no backup plan.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Jul 31 2020 1:08 utc | 41

Amazed(?) to see so many people (trolls?) miss the entire point of this article, that COVID-19 creates LONG-LASTING adverse physical problems. Playing around with death numbers and such is a way to distract, to cheer-lead for the ruling class: "Get back to work you lazy bastards, we don't care if you get injured [our bought and paid for politicians are passing laws to protect us against lawsuits, so now we don't have to worry about creating safe working conditions]."

As far as the "economy" goes, dear trolls, consider that the Fed was pumping billions into the economy in the Fall of 2019. Why was that happening if everything was so great? It wasn't! Trump killed off the pandemic response arm of the US govt and I have to ask WHY (anyone up for holding a hearing on this?). Was it all a setup? No matter, two FACTS:

1) Perpetual growth on a finite planet isn't possible (growth could never go on forever- and when it couldn't?);
2) Viruses are real; people taking advantage/profiting off of this pandemic is nothing new (read up on history), but just because there may be a conspiracy to do so doesn't mean that the virus itself is a conspiracy.

No, go run along. I believe that you're invited to Herman Cain's funeral: masks not required!

Posted by: Seer | Jul 31 2020 1:12 utc | 42

@ Roberto #1

"mask are useless and potentially dangerous"

Why do you repeat such inane statements? They are patently false and pretty much only uttered by morons. WTF is wrong with you?

Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 1:13 utc | 43

thanks b..

@ 19 michael droy...it is interesting how you focus on the economy like some capitalist only concerned with the bottom line.... the 1500 approx people who died today in the usa is really of no consequence to you, unless you happen to be directly related to them - or heaven forbid - you suffer an economic drop in your reality... for some of us, the world involves more then gdp numbers and constant economic growth.. the planet has been suffering from any number of ills thanks this ongoing perpetual growth bubble that many would like to continue indefinitely.. apparently there can only be a focus on economics, and the environment, whether it be more dead fish, sea life, animals - or even old people - is really not all that relevant next to the importance of this economic focus you put on a pedestal.... i think your priorities are really messed up.... and of course the economic system you probably believe in - capitalism - is being seen for the ugly whore it is... but do keep hanging onto that..

@ 41 jen..no doubt, that is highly likely!

Posted by: james | Jul 31 2020 1:17 utc | 44

@ Fog of War #2

"Her heart attack might have been triggered by her constant mask wearing, decreased amounts of oxygen intake, and re-breathing carbon dioxide from her own breath."

Your ludicrous statements might be triggered by your lack of a brain and your inability to perform due diligence. Save that bullshit for 4chan.

Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 1:17 utc | 45

@ AntiSpin #7

"N95 Masks DO WORK, and the Proof is Available All Over the Net!"

No doubt but this moron was most likely referring to face coverings, not N95 respirators. "N95 masks" are a misnomer. They are technically classified as a respirator, even if they look like a "mask".

Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 1:22 utc | 46

@VietnamVet,

you got that right, and don't think the letter by the politician means a goddamn thing. in Montana our Democrat Governor has only dispersed around 10% of the billion+ in relief money to municipalities and counties, putting even more restrictions on the aid. my former employer tried to get reimbursed for all the extra meal on wheels they are delivering to homebound seniors, and they GOT DENIED.

Posted by: lizard | Jul 31 2020 1:23 utc | 47

@ Cosmos #14

"Does this blog has been bought up by Bill and Melinda?"

Does this comment has been made by someone without critical thinking skills?

Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 1:28 utc | 48

@ Lurk | Jul 30 2020 22:24 utc | 29

"The mask limits outgoing aerosols, not incoming ones."

Please go up and re-read the following post --
AntiSpin | Jul 30 2020 19:55 utc | 7
-- before posting any more such nonsense.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jul 31 2020 1:30 utc | 49

48
Respirators filter incoming air. Masks as well as blocking droplets filter both incoming and out going air.
Buy a P95 filter with a valve and it is a respirator. Buy one without the valve and it is a mask. P95 is a US filtration standard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_mask
A surgical mask, also known as a face mask, is intended to be worn by health professionals during healthcare procedures.[1][2] It is designed to prevent infections in patients and treating personnel by catching bacteria shed in liquid droplets and aerosols from the wearer's mouth and nose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respirator
A respirator is a device designed to protect the wearer from inhaling hazardous atmospheres, including fumes, vapours, gases and particulate matter such as dusts and airborne microorganisms.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 1:33 utc | 50

The novel coronavirus, an RNA virus named SARS-CoV-2, has become notorious for its skill at breaking and entering human cells. Its tools of choice are the protein spikes protruding from its surface – a feature that distinguishes all coronaviruses. The spikes of SARS-CoV-2 are the crème de la crème: By the luck of the evolutionary draw, they are able to easily grab hold of protein gates on human cells known as ACE2 receptors and, like jackknives, pry these gates open.

Illustration of a coronavirus symbol.
Spikes on the virus’s surface act like jackknives to break and enter human cells.

“You can think of an ACE2 receptor like a docking site,” says Faranak Fattahi, PhD, a UCSF Sandler Fellow.

Dear B. you are wrong. There is no problem other than masks and lockdown here in South America. Seniors and ills are at risk as in any other flu season. Young and healthy are under almost zero risk. Please stop spreading panic.
Lockdown are destroying economy, mask are useless and potentially dangerous. Posted by: Roberto @ 1

Roberto i posted the following a few days back and B took it down..
@ 18 mark2 @ 18.. <=Previously I expressed similar concerns similar to what your movie suggest..what i posted previously follows; please read it ..
infection is the thing to stop, trying to make well a person already infected is a medical emergency..

Covid is a series of infectious viruses.. S protein on virus surface has two parts: The S1 interacts with the ACE-2 Receptor on the human cell to decoy and S2 from clamping to the surface of the exposed target cell membrane, an thereafter disrupting the membrane between virus and the cell cytosole, that disruption causes the cell to open a pore tunnel thru both layers of membrane which enables the virus to crawl into into the cytosol of the live living human cell (this stage, the first, is called infection). Everything after that is up to immune system to overcome until after the 10 th day or so, then the damage the Immune system caused becomes a factor in whether or not the patient recovers or dies.

The focus should be on preventing infection. But no body wants to hear that.. Wear a mask and gloves. Infected patients are at the mercy of their own immune system to win the battle with the virus, and then at the mercy of the damage their own immune system did to their body. Let the physicians deal with post infected persons. Those still hoping to avoid the virus should be concerned with avoiding infection. Not curing the disease the infection caused.

No evidence exist to prove RF does not accelerate infection probability, because RF disrupts cell membranes to consummate its infection in humans in a manner very similar to how the virus gains access to the human cell.

But what is the Covid 19 infection rate in humans exposed to virus in the presence of high frequency energy formatted as RF: 5%, 10%, 20% or 100%? Does RF catalyze noral virus infections to pandemic levels? <= Corna Virus has been around for a long time, long before the recent Pandemic, and it has not produced a pandemic until recent years. Why? According to Dr. Pall, 7,500 new cell towers were put in place in Wuhan just two mouths before the outbreak of Pandemic Covid 19 virus.

Mask and distancing have not slowed the growing Covid 19 numbers)?

So what is the science. Articles 1) Remote activation of cellular signaling 2) Electric Fields stimulate genetically modified pancreatic B cells 3. electronic energy is used to program cellular behavior(like open a channel in a membrane) see... 29 May, 2020 p. 937-39 Vol 36 Issue 6494 of Science.

Beyond recent literature a EU Patent application [EUPA] EP 0710718A1.. published 08.05.1996 Bulletin 1996/19 application number 95115195.0 filed 5.10.1988 the application number of the earlier application in accord with Art. 66 EPC:88909944.6 published 8.05.1996 bulletin 1996/19 application number 95115195.0 date of filing 05.10.1988 which paragraph 54 claims it owns a patent on a "Method of, and apparatus for, cell poration (makes holes in cells) and cell fusion using RF generated electrical pulses.." (my lab experience confirms transporting items through membranes by electral or optical means is standard practice).

Line 55 of the EUPA says the patent applied for<= is a method for the poration (make holes in cell membrane) and fusion of cells using RF electrical pulses The alternating electric field induces cell congregation... the RF porates or fuses with .. very high efficiency.. animal cells, human cells, plant cells, protoplasts, erythrocyte ghosts, lipsomes, vesicles, bacteria and yeasts.

the EUPA says: the method has the unique ability to porate or fuse cells in very small or very large (like pandemic size) numbers.
Further "During these prorations or fusions, ..a variety of chemical agents, including DNA, RNA, antibodies, proteins, drugs, molecular probes, hormones, growth factors, enzymes, organic and inorganic chemicals can be introduced into these cells.. and new biological species can be produced.. "

There is bunches of literature that suggest RF is a catalyst to membrane disruption, yet, all I hear, is wear a mask and gloves. Information blackouts invite conspiracy theories because the propaganda that promotes virus in pandemic quantities is a natural risk to human survival is highly suspect in todays modern environment. Especially suspect is that at a time when Viral Pandemic is the center narrative around the globe little about infectivity is discussed? Why ..? Thank you for the video.


Why is there an organized effort to spread SARS-COV-2? by: Jackrabbit @ 15


so <= if infection rate is normally .1%, then 1 person out of every 1000 exposed should become infected.
For Corona to infect S1 and S2 portions of the S protein must find its way to ACE-2 Receptors on the cells to be infected and then clamp to cell membrane, then disrupt that cell membrane, and cell must be programmed to open a hole so the virus can crawl in . <=basically the way the virus gains access to its victim..

But suppose you are in an industry that depends on RF and you learn about the increase in infectivity of the virus in the presence of RF.. What do you do? What did one airplane company do when it learned its best aircraft were designed to unsafe? What did the Chemical Industry do when it learned its waste were contaminating the environment?

What would providers of RF or those dependent on RF do, if they discovered RF everywhere is certain to increase the rate of infection? They might fear that users would notice and blame the RF. Concerned citizens would cause the whole world to stop using RF until its safety could be proven. Such a stoppage would devastate most RF investors?

Convince as many as possible the pandemic came before RF so viral infections w/n/b blamed on RF?

Your video supports that the numbers are made up? The European Union Patent Application(EUPA) clearly says RF makes holes in human cell membranes so do hundreds if not thousands of scientific papers and using high frequency is often used in the laboratory to make one thing accept another through membrane barriers.

Ask the RF industry to defend by actual proof that RF is safe [words of 1000 scientist unacceptable], before RF is allowed to be further deployed, before RF energy levels are allowed to advance to 5g levels, and make government monitory the use of RF to control human thought and function.


virus particles are present among a group of 20 persons, at least 1 person will be infected.

What "OH SHIT" situation could cause this 400,000 fold increase in virus to human infectivity?

to answer such a question we might investigate the activity or fact that turned SARS-Cov-19 virus into a pandemic! Something so broad, so global that it could account for a massive, worldwide increase in population infectivity occurring in areas which are generally involved in international travel and areas that have high densities of cell towers.

Here is why.. and I think this idea of infectivity needs to be debated at length on this list.

If "the oh shit" result is a viral infection pandemic, then can the cause be tracked?
Is it industry, military or political that refuses to allow the data and theories to be evaluated?
Are we dealing with a cover up, camaflaouge to hide the "Oh Shit"? Why would they do that?
Maybe they thought a 400,000 x increase in infectivity would be noticed by nearly everyone in time? Disclosing the Oh Shit up front and keeping possible cause discussion out of the narrative, might make the appearance of a virus pandemic to be a natural event. An event, independent of the "Oh Shit activity or fact" that is the cause or result?

Remember defense teams usually try to reveal early the Oh Shits. Defence teams know about and when they do reveal the content of the Oh Shit, they down play its impact as much as possible.
[100 virons contact 100 human cells } = if 1% efficient ====> 1 human cell is infected 99 virons die (2)
has changed to [100 virons contact 100 human cells] =30% efficient =====> 30 human cells infected, 70 virons die

Still thou how do you hide from the public such an Oh Shit? Especially one, that every man, woman and child will come to understand in a short while?

One way might be to unleash the energy into the public sphere make the increased infectivity happen and become a new norm, so that later as the industry ramps up, no one will notice it was the industry that changed the infectivity.

In true evasive defense, how would the Oh Shit ever be discovered to be the result of commercial activity, if the public were not allowed to investigate this so called new norm or to discuss many and varied explanations and theories? Shut down the revealing voices and use propaganda to deny observation of the obvious.

Is there a possibility the SARS Corona 19 viral infection pandemic is due to an increase in viral infectivity of living human cells or responsible in some way for the numbers of virus susceptible persons that suddenly populate our hospitals? Could possible defendants be wireless, military, or commercial tyrants?

Rolling out more and more energy distributed as RF by communications towers or satellite and wirelessly distributing energy in RF and Laser formats without absolute proof, that energy delivered in these forms do not serve as catalyst that alter natural biological process or that increase viral human infectivity seem very irresponsible. (virus:cell interface is a biological combat zone). So where is that absolute proof?

Consider the massive numbers of lawsuits certain to arise, if it is later proven that viruses and many other infectious and invasive insults to living human cells or insults that change human susceptibility is somehow greatly enhanced by (catalyzed by) the presence of energy, formatted as RF or Light, delivered in environments where infectious varmits lurk: your home, office, and along the roadways, at school, church and in the ball park or at public meetings.

Focusing on the ability of the immune system to win the battle for life. is a physician thing, I think the bigger picture should be the life threatening question infectivity..

How do infections happen.<= viral contact, infect-able persons.. and

Is there a new kid on the block, catalyzing pandemic levels of viral infections? <= note date on EUPA and prior, but recent, pandemics? Is something causing the numbers of persons susceptible to infection to increase, at a time, when the numbers of contacts are being reduced (mask and distancing, and so on)?

I do not believe one trying to answer those questions can rationally ignore the Science Articles such as Remote activation of cellular signaling. Electric Fields stimulate genetically modified pancreatic B cells
to ... 29 May, 2020 p. 937-39 Vol 36 Issue 6494 of Science or the article same journal where electronic energy is used to program cellular behavior...

and more than that bit of evidence is the cast in stoneEU Patent application [EUPA] EP 0710718A1.. published 08.05.1996 Bulletin 1996/19 application number 95115195.0 filed 5.10.1988 the application number of the earlier application in accord with Art. 66 EPC:88909944.6 published 8.05.1996 bulletin 1996/19 application number 95115195.0 date of filing 05.10.1988 which paragraph 54 "Method of and apparatus for cell poration (makes holes in cells) and cell fusion using RF electrical pulses.. (my own experience in infecting cells using ultra sound
and RF).

Line 55 of the EUPA says this is a method for the poration and fusion of cells using RF electrical pulses
The alternating electric field induces cell congregation... the RF porates or fuses with .. very high efficiency.. animal cells, human cells, plant cells, protoplasts, erythrocyte ghosts, lipsomes, vesicles, bacteria and yeasts.

the EUPA says: the method has the unique ability to porate or fuse cells in very small or very large (like
pandemic size) numbers.

The EUPA goes on to say: "During these prorations or fusions, ..a variety of chemical agents, including DNA, RNA, antibodies, proteins, drugs, molecular probes, hormones, growth factors, enzymes, organic and inorganic chemicals can be introduced into these cells.. and new biological species can be produced.. "

There is just so much literature on the subject and virtually nothing about infection except mask and gloves. This black out occurs at a time when Viral Pandemic is the center narrative around the globe? Why ..?


Why is there an organized effort to spread SARS-COV-2? by: Jackrabbit @ 15

No matter what Richard Steven Hack believes. the answer to your very good question may have an explaination in analogy. Defending a liable/guilty party in a lawsuit or criminal case presents a defense who discovers
his client engaged in some really harmful past activity or lives with a really harmful fact about client self <=The Oh Shit problem. <=the question the defense must decide is how to handle that "OH SHIT": does defense try to hide the fact from the court or does defense agressively expose the OH SHIT?

If prosecutor never discovers the OH SHIT< no problem; but if the defense tries to hide the OH SHIT, and the prosecutor later discovers the "Oh Shit", the defense has created for the prosecutor an opportnity to quash the creditability of the defendant. So most defense attorneys will reveal, but make light of, the OH Shits by disclosing them up front. Revealed the "Oh Shit" avoids crippling surprises at in-opportune times (tribunal, court, jury or administrative actions).

Suppose not the virus itself, but the capacity of the virus to infect persons when in contact with the virus is somehow enhanced by a hidden "Oh Shit Fact or activity": a growing global menance to mankind much like the industrial waste problem that containminated our lakes and streams..

Has something changed normally unremarkable corona virus infections into a Pandemic? By way of example, consider that in times before the global Pandemic began; on average it might have taken 100,000 virus particles attacking a group of say 20 humans, to find the one human susceptible to infection from among those 20 and to infect him or her?

The virus is attacking, its everywhere, it or its ancestors have been around for hundrends of years, but until now it only infected 1 out ot every 20 humans and required infectous particles in large numbers? Certain humans are naturally susceptible to infection by certain virus types.

But, even under normal conditions, and even for that one human it might require at least 100,000 virus particles to be in contact with the infection susceptible human before one particle is likely to have gained infective access to a susceptible human.

we could for example sake, say that for every 20 humans exposed to at least 2,000,000 infectious virus particles, that we could expect one human to be infected? Infection rate would be 1 human infection for each 2,000,000 virus particles in contact. Infectivity might be calcuclated to be .00005% <= a very low probability. <=n condition.

BUT BUT BUT

now since that "Oh Shit activity" changed the infectivity, according to our model, only 5 virus particles are required <=instead of 100, to infect suspectible humans. Is that a 2m/5 <== 400,000 increase in viral infectivity? So now the infection rate changes to 1/5 =.20 or say 20% meaning when 5 infectious virus particles are present among a group of 20 persons, the suspectible person will likely be infected.

What "OH SHIT" electronics delivered by RF or some othere means might cause this 400,000 fold increase in infectivity? Why are we not debate infection it is a process and if we find a way to stop that, there is no
virus problem..

Posted by: snake | Jul 31 2020 1:34 utc | 51

Stop responding to Roberto. He's just an ignorant. Responding is a waste of time.

Posted by: btpsilveira | Jul 31 2020 1:36 utc | 52

@ dp #24

"Now tell me why me way a fashion mask, a bandanna or scarf can protect me or another from a virus...?"

Are you really an RN? Masks like bandannas or surgical masks or any other thing you put over your face will NOT protect from airborne pathogens. That's the job of a respirator like N95. The latest research indicates that a face covering will have some minimal preventative effect, but that's not why one wears a face covering. Face coverings are worn to protect those around you from potential infection. I'm a bit surprised that an RN would not know these simple facts.

Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 1:43 utc | 53

Excellent coverage, b. Probably the best post you've done on the pandemic yet.

I'm still going to do extreme hand washing and hand sanitizer. That way I can ignore the advice about not touching one's mouth and nose. I've been doing that for the last four months and that having to share a hall toilet with others. The only disinfecting I do is my sink and surfaces where I eat. And I occasionally wipe down my keyboard with hydrogen peroxide just for good measure.

I've altered my last name in this post to see if that helps with the spam filters grabbing my posts.

Posted by: Richard Steven Heck | Jul 31 2020 1:46 utc | 54

Excellent coverage, b. Probably the best post you've done on the pandemic yet.

I'm still going to do extreme hand washing and hand sanitizer. That way I can ignore the advice about not touching one's mouth and nose. I've been doing that for the last four months and that having to share a hall toilet with others. The only disinfecting I do is my sink and surfaces where I eat. And I occasionally wipe down my keyboard with hydrogen peroxide just for good measure.

I've altered my last name in this post to see if that helps with the spam filters grabbing my posts.

Edit: Well, that didn't work. Let me try submitting without being on the VPN.

Posted by: Richard Steven Heck | Jul 31 2020 1:50 utc | 55

Posted by: Seer | Jul 31 2020 1:12 utc | 44

Yup, it's both tragic and laughable that most of the plebs STILL have no idea that they are always been part of the class war and on the losing side, let alone identify who their real enemy is.

Posted by: J W | Jul 31 2020 1:51 utc | 56

Ah, that worked. So now I know I can only submit accepted posts when not using the VPN. Weird, since I done it before many times. Maybe the spam filter got updated.

Posted by: snake | Jul 31 2020 1:34 utc | 53

Your 5G BULLSHIT has been debunked many times. But you keep repeating it in every thread. That is the definition of a troll. You seem to think you're some kind of expert in non-ionizing radiation. Well, the real experts in that field have repeatedly pointed out that you are full of shit. Not to mention that the pandemic is all over the world, most of which does not have 5G.

Cretin.

Posted by: Richard Steven Heck | Jul 31 2020 1:54 utc | 57

From the Propulica article:


I’ve watched so many reporters, both at ProPublica and at other outlets, do their best to debunk myths, demystify confusing trends and answer the public’s questions. It is, frankly, exhausting, especially when the same arguments keep coming up again and again. I’m also concerned to see not just laypeople, but local and national leaders, using data out of context to justify their own narratives.

That's how it feels to read the pandemic threads here. The same trolls pushing the same nonsense over and over. They're the *only ones* in the world to "see through" the "hoax" of the pandemic - *all* the other doctors and scientists (except for their cherry-picked nutcases like the doctor who said Jesus would take down Facebook if her bullshit wasn't put back) in the entire world who have been fighting this thing for eight months are *all* part of the "hoax" or are too incompetent to comprehend the trolls *superior* knowledge and logic.

Hey, normally I probably would agree about the level of smarts and competence in most people, being a misanthrope. But even I can comprehend that something is going on here which is not a "hoax".

b's gonna have to clean up a *lot* in this thread.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 2:04 utc | 58

I stopped commenting at this place back in March when the first fights over covid started, and I'm glad I did.

At first I watched, somewhat surprised, as b allowed alternative points of view to be posted. But then I noticed the cliques form and a distinct lowering of the tone of the site (morons, morons, morons). My surprise turned to distaste as I realized that covid was being used as a wedge issue to break the solidarity of a group of informed people, used as a wedge to foment divisiveness and emotionalism.

I just dropped in to say that you people are fighting over the dumpster fire distraction while the US and the whole West are being restructured by the elites.

I don't care about masks, about pronouncements based on misagregated or polluted statistics, about who said what to whom. While you are all stuck in this mud-wrestling, the elite plan is working perfectly. Every day the economy is further disrupted, the government is further weakened, billionaires and their platform companies become more powerful. But you choose to fight about covid.

To me, the Covid situation is merely a Hybrid War-style excuse for initiating the elite plan to not merely rescue the massively overextended banking and stock buyback industries, but to shock doctrine the government into bankruptcy and privatization so that corporate rule can be legalized, social programs can be looted, "unworthy" public demonstrations can be banned while "worthy" ones are allowed, and authoritarian social controls (vaccine "passports", lockdowns) can be instituted. I am basically borrowing from Ellen Brown:

The crisis is not about covid medical issues, or lockdowns, or masks. The crisis is about the use of covid as an excuse to carry out a preplanned economic and political agenda, namely the bailout of a financial system even more overextended than 2008. It is about using the lockdown to stifle any political objection to the travesty of a "choice" between two warmongering, mentally impaired old men in September, and the unanimous support for bailing out the banks, once again with no strings attached…

E Brown

Already during the covid period, the SCOTUS invalidated "fiduciary duty" as an obligation of fund managers; and an Executive decree allowed pension funds to "invest" in private equity, which industry is little more than asset strippers and bustout artists. Meanwhile, coins have become scarce, further reinforcing the push for e-payment. The elimination of cash is a major goal of the global corporatists.

TPTB have succeeded, even on this board, in making the covid issue a Manichean litmus test. That is, only two positions pass Chomsky's "conciseness filter".You are either for complete and unending lockdown until some miracle vaccine arrives, or you are for no lockdowns at all. Nuance left the building almost immediately. (Unless you count fighting over whether 6 feet or 20 feet is the correct distancing.) So, I do not want to talk about the medical aspects of the lockdown. I want to talk about the Deep State origins and control of it.

Has everyone here forgotten the run-up to the Iraq invasion? CJ Hopkins hasn't:

The parallels (to the 911 event) are overwhelming. The “state of emergency.” The propaganda. The mass hysteria. The mob mentality. The exaggeration of the actual threat. The police-state atmosphere. The suppression of dissent. The constant repetition of the new official narrative. The exhortative catchphrases and meaningless slogans. The confusion. The chaos. The existential fear. And so on. It is all so very familiar.

I’m referring to the pandemic, of course, but also to the racialized civil unrest and identitarian polarization that GloboCap has fomented throughout the United States, and, to varying degrees, the rest of the empire.

That is, the Deep State activity is hidden behind several layers of propaganda psyops. I do not have time and you do not have the patience for a lengthy exposition of how comprehensive the elite plan is. So here's the bullet point version:

1) The “Repo crisis”, beginning in September, 2019, showed the post-2008 financial bubble had popped, but it was papered over - by Fed overnight loans reaching $1 Trillion per day by March, 2020 - and ignored by the corporate media, while a way to bailout Wall St. again was searched for.

2) Bill Gates had been running virus doom scenarios for ten years or more. He has bought large stakes in the WHO, GAVI, etc. He is neither a humanitarian nor a medical professional. The Chinese reaction to Covid (caused by their legitimate fear that this was a biowarfare attack) played right into Gates' scenario and led to its adoption at the WEF as “shock doctrine” to cover bailing out the crooks again.

Mike Whitney is clear on this:

The imposition of the nationwide lockdowns required elite consensus. There’s no way that a project of that magnitude could have been carried out absent the nearly universal support of establishment elites and their lackeys in the political class. There must have also been a fairly-detailed media strategy that excluded the voices of lockdown opponents while– at the same time– promoting an extremely dubious theory of universal quarantine that had no basis in science, no historical precedent, and no chance of preventing the long-term spread of the infection. All of this suggests that the lockdowns were not a spontaneous overreaction to a fairly-mild virus that kills roughly 1 in 500 mainly-older and infirm victims, but a comprehensive and thoroughly-vetted plan to impose “shock therapy” on the US economy in order to achieve the long-term strategic ambitions of ruling class elites. As one sardonic official opined, “Never let a crisis go to waste.”

It was clear from the beginning, that the lockdowns were going to have a catastrophic effect on the economy, and so they have.
M. Whitney

3) When people began to realize the extent of the bailout’s inequality (especially for small businesses and gig workers), the Floyd incident was given major corporate and media support to splinter and disrupt any economic pushback via racial disharmony. The masking rules were waived for demonstrators. Since the two psyops were in collision, something had to give. Masks did.

4) Then Trump used the already polarizing Floyd grievance to forward his authoritarian agenda to undermine civilian government with Federal troops – a government that had already been hollowed out by decades of neoliberal Democratic participation in the destruction of government via privatization. This caused even more Manichaean divisiveness. Again, according to plan. Trump's job is to destroy as much of American government and trust in the same as he can. The more he rampages, the less government is left to oppose the corporate takeover.

Net result. Politics is at a standstill. Biden v Trump is a sick joke. The media refuses to talk about anything but covid, or perhaps George Floyd and demonstrations. The Democrats continue to shovel money to the MIC. The economy continues to be in free fall. Our warmongering gets worse by the day, supported by both halves of the duopoly.

5) Behind the scenes, the “Great Reset” is being planned by the globalists. The globablists know that neoliberalism has extracted all it can from society in its present form. They knew that bell had rung back in September, 2019. So they are planning to create a new society. The “reset” (an innocuous word for a devastating action) will mean the end of formal democracy, the institution of draconian social controls, and the slashing of social programs.

----

Instead of discussing the Deep State (which I admit is hard to do because they don't exactly hold public discussions), b dutifully headlines the latest scare-mongering about covid. I'm surprised he didn't give further coverage to the "plague in Mongolia" story that was headlined in the NYT and the BBC earlier this month:

So why does this medical misfortune, one of hundreds of cases of plague that will occur worldwide this year, deserve a story in major news outlets? A microbiologist quoted in another BBC piece (7/6/20) provides a clue: “Although this might appear alarming, being another major infectious disease emerging from the East, it appears to be a single suspected case which can be readily treated.”

FAIR

Bottom line: A board formerly noted for its intelligent and informed readers and for skepticism of the official narrative cannot notice the massive "be afraid of everything" psyop that has been running on all channels since March? I guess not. That's where I thought this board was headed when I left, and the behavior of this site since then has confirmed my evaluation.

I came back for this one post, to say "wake up, suckers". You are being robbed and your rights are being stolen. You can't seem to walk (fight the Deep State's rollout of their coup d'etat) and chew gum (have a reasonable and appropriate response to covid) at the same time.

Posted by: john brewster | Jul 31 2020 2:08 utc | 59

@ Roberto #34

Nice try, but no cigar!


1) https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00392-020-01704-y

This paper refers to wearing N95 respirators, not masks.

2) https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

This article quotes a Doctor that states:

“With numbers diminishing very quickly in Sweden, we see no point in wearing a face mask in Sweden, not even on public transport,”

This is not a statement of mask efficacy but rather a statement of lower case numbers which may mean masks could be no longer necessary in that specific context. It's not an indictment of mask efficacy in general.

3) Belarus no mask no lockdown....then they get very nice numbers.

Correlation does not imply causation. Any first year college student could tell you that.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8373857/Norways-PM-admits-closed-schools-nurseries-fear.html

The Daily Mail? Are you sincere? Do you really consider that tabloid to be a source of valid news?

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/490659-ferguson-undermined-uk-lockdown/

So you found one source to confirm your position. This is called confirmation bias. If you were serious, you might find multiple sources AND read them thoroughly before making unsubstantiated claims.

Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 2:09 utc | 60

@55 anonymous

The poster was trying to point out that they failed their "fit test" with the n95 and was instead given a surgical mask and told to replace every 30 mins.

They were pointing out that it makes little sense if they are told to replace their surgical mask every 30 mins that cloth masks would be anywhere near effective enough for us.

I do agree that cloth masks help prevent the wearer's own aerosols from infecting others.

It is a mere ounce of prevention and something that the commoner CAN actually do to help. It doesn't impact liberty, yet, though it perhaps is training us to accept any prescription tossed out from Big Brother.

I am curious, though I think I know the answer, as to how people would think about mandatory Covid-19 vaccines coming to a bloodstream near you?

I believe there is where it will get a little but hairier, in terms of enforcement.

I am bracing myself for being let go from my job for refusing the jab.

It's coming, folks.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 31 2020 2:12 utc | 61

"The whole mask "debate" is the perfect way of spotting the people who are dangerous sociopaths. The kind of people who should be shipped to the courts for manslaughter in the current situation. And definitely the kind of people who should be listed officially, so that they'll be denied any medical attention if they ever catch Covid."

Nothing sociopathic about that post. SEND HIM TO THE GULAG !!

This is getting so out of hand I can't believe what I'm seeing and hearing.

I can't believe how many folks still believe the government narrative and the bought and paid for science behind this psyop of opportunity. They've essentially done the same thing to science and medicine as they have done to the media. The self censoring is deafening.

Let me help you out here folks ;

"“We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
― Karl Rove(turd blossom)

We're just along for the ride. It's just a matter of time before we'll see people dying of exposure and starvation which I'm sure will be counted as COVID 19(84) deaths in order to cover for the elite who are driving(and profiting)from this biological WMD replay.

Attempting to play this as if the US government gives a warm runny shit about your or anyone else's safety at this point is almost as funny as the delusion that elections have consequences !

Imagine not even realizing you live in a plutocratic republic/military cult/casino/mob family owned by psychopaths and enforced by sociopaths!

Stay safe and please don't believe everything you hear or read, especially if the elite are profiting from it.

Posted by: dave | Jul 31 2020 2:15 utc | 62

@ Roberto #35


"https://aapsonline.org/covid-masks-distancing-not-evidence-based/"


I'm starting to think that you don't actually read the articles you post. This org(AAPS) has been discredited multiple times for making outlandish medical claims like "being gay reduces life expectancy" and that there's a "link between abortion and breast cancer". Even discredited Wikipedia knows that they're full of shit. The least you could do is vet your sources BEFORE posting here. I suspect that you only read the headline or title. If you actually DO read the article then you probably have a serious deficiency in reading comprehension.


Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 2:19 utc | 63

Prolonged symptom duration and disability are common in adults hospitalized with severe coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).

Not just symptomatic COVID, severe COVID requiring hospitalization

The heart study has no controls. Without a control group the findings are not significant. There were also numerous conflicts of interest reported

As for the 1957/1958 recession. It started before the flu season and the Fed cut interest rates in September. The Fed believed the recession the recession was caused by a massive cut in military purchases in the years following the Korea War. The defense budget was increased in 1957 but it took time for the increases to trickle down to production. This turned the tide in early 1958. The correlation with the flu season was coincidental

No such downturn was noted in the 1968 pandemic as the Vietnam War kept defense spending high, as it is today

Lockdowns = Recession

Posted by: Kay Fabe | Jul 31 2020 2:20 utc | 64

@ psychohistorian #38

You hit the nail right on the head!

Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 2:21 utc | 65

@ AntiSpin #51

"Please go up and re-read the following post...before posting any more such nonsense."

The protective effect of face coverings is limited. Their efficacy lies in their ability to prevent outgoing particles. Not sure why you confuse the terminology of face coverings vs respirators.

Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 2:32 utc | 66

It is interesting that USA and Russia share many characteristics. In both, the pandemic hit the largest cities first, but the decline in daily cases and deaths is slow as it spreads over somewhat sketchy hinterland. "With the level of medicine in outlying regions like Dagestan or Louisiana...".

Other characteristic is high penal population. However, "strongman" Putin does not need to pander to population as much as Dems and Gops, so that population dropped quite a bit in the last 10 years (30-40% from memory). The model of Russian prisons is less prone for spreading epidemics, isolated "colonies", mostly in taiga, with clusters of small buildings that can be easily isolated from each other. So this pandemic vector should be smaller in Russia.

And the model of care for elderly is very different The terrible decade 1990-2000 eliminated a lot of potential elderly population with "co-morbidities". The survivors tend to live independently, so Russia lacks one of the dominant mechanisms of high mortality in Western countries.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 31 2020 2:33 utc | 67

@ Peter AU1 #52

I can't tell if you're agreeing or contradicting my post. Was I not clear?

Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 2:34 utc | 68

@60 john brewster

Great post. Thanks for the effort. I don't agree with every point, but it makes you think.

It seems that the wildcard in your equation is still the Trump phenomenon, even though you tried to paint him in the same corner as the rest of our shit-eating elites.

Trump is the figure-head of the lesser band of elites which are old-money and do not have big-tech in their corner.

I just think it is a bridge too far to suggest that 1) Hillary was fine with losing, and 2) Trump would allow his character to be dragged through the muck to this extent. I would not be surprised to see a military-coup if Trump wins in Nov. And you see him end up like Mussolini on Pennsylvania Ave.

Right now, you are also seeing supposed Republicans dip their feet into the waters of backstabbing Trump. They never liked him to begin with and his weakening position with the bungling of covid-19 and with little economic aid to the little guy right now is making them smell blood.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 31 2020 2:35 utc | 69

john brewster @60
Outstandingly well said, and amen on all points.
Peace.

Posted by: robjira | Jul 31 2020 2:47 utc | 70

@Roberto | Jul 30 2020 19:00 utc | 1

There is no problem other than masks and lockdown here in South America.

Is Brazil in South America? Jair Bolsonaro tested positive for COVID-19 -- three times.

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 31 2020 2:48 utc | 71

You are close with the AC. A totally dehydrated virus is a dead virus. That is how alcohol kills them. What AC likely does is significantly decrease the amount of water without totally drying it, allowing it to travel further because of the reduced weight.

Posted by: UserFriendly | Jul 31 2020 2:59 utc | 72

Perhaps these are the results of the US having excessive amounts of chemicals in the food, water, soil and air.

Posted by: jiri | Jul 31 2020 3:01 utc | 73

@ john brewster #60

Your post is erudite and concise, but I don't see any chance of change unless we see something like autonomous roving sniper teams blowing the heads off of CEOs that work against the public good. Until something drastic happens we are all fucked.

Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 3:31 utc | 74

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 31 2020 2:12 utc | 62 mandatory Covid-19 vaccines coming to a bloodstream near you? it will get a little but hairier, in terms of enforcement.

Precisely. Exactly how *could* it be enforced? People could be told by corporations that unless they get it, they won't have a job. Schools already won't let kids enroll without vaccination in most states and countries.

For the rest of us, however, it can't be enforced. It might be mandatory, but enforcement is likely to be next to impossible - on a par with trying to "confiscate guns" - which is also next to impossible given the numbers involved.

Nonetheless, given the deadliness of this pandemic, it's almost certain that vaccination will be made mandatory.

I just found this article, however, which says that mandatory vaccination is legally permissible under the Constitution - at least according to Supreme Court decisions going back to 1905.

This article covers the issue of mandatory vaccination in terms of the rising rates of measles, mumps and rubella.

Frankly, I'm unconcerned. I'm likely to be one of the last to get vaccinated, just because of my situation. So I have plenty of time to do the research and see what the actual risks are. It's likely that the risks will be minimal. Recent reports indicate that vaccine trials are proceeding fairly well, with minimal side effects on the test patients. A lot of scientists working on vaccines are confident they can get something that works with no or minimal side effects within the next year. So we'll see.

The only risk is that the government will mandate a *specific* vaccine that *hasn't* been adequately tested and properly developed. I'd rather take a Russian or Chinese vaccine than one Trump has mandated. :-)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 3:31 utc | 75

@ NemesisCalling #62

"...though it perhaps is training us to accept any prescription tossed out from Big Brother."

You might be right and the forced vaccinations are my "line in the sand". I've worked in the epidemiology and disease surveillance field for several years. I perform my own due diligence and didn't require the Gov to tell what to do vis-a-vis wearing masks. Your point is well taken.

Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 3:38 utc | 76

Maybe these high deaths are due to high amounts of chemicals, insecticides, fungicides in the air , water, soil and food of Americans?

Posted by: jiri | Jul 31 2020 3:54 utc | 77

John Brewster@60

Two thumbs up... umm that's it in a nut shell. Thanks for posting that.

There is still sanity in this world.

Posted by: David Shinn | Jul 31 2020 4:22 utc | 78

Posted by: anonymous | Jul 31 2020 3:31 utc | 76 unless we see something like autonomous roving sniper teams blowing the heads off of CEOs that work against the public good. Until something drastic happens we are all fucked.

Got that right - and that plan ain't bad, either, although it could be improved considerably. All the bitching and moaning won't do a damn thing. Neither will elections.

As the pro-gun people (which includes me) say, "If it's time to bury your guns (threat of confiscation), it's time to dig them up." Some other wag once said, "We're at that unfortunate time in history when it's too late to change the system by legal means but too soon to just shoot the bastards."

Well, maybe it's not too soon.

However, I would point out that this has been discussed here ad nauseum over the last five months. b's pandemic posts haven't derailed anything, contrary to Brewster's notion. Pretty much everyone here is in agreement that the elites are using the pandemic to implement economic measures to improve their position and damage everyone else's position.

Whether that constitutes some vague notion of a "Great Reset" is not at all certain - mostly because the term has no meaning absent any hard intel. That and the fact that the elites compete against each other as well as against the rest of us makes the notion of some all-encompassing "conspiracy" less than certain.

Next we'll be hearing from "Illuminati" trolls. In which case, they should go back and read Robert Anton Wilson's trilogy, the whole point of which was 1) conspiracies are real, but 2) conspiracy theories are usually bullshit.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 4:22 utc | 79

Posted by: Banned | Jul 31 2020 4:01 utc | 80

I've no idea who Offit is and couldn't care less. Either refute the factual statements in the article or STFU. The article discusses the history and concepts around mandatory vaccination. Offit is quoted only in that context - and his statement about "the libertarian argument falls apart" is correct: under the statist conception that is precisely correct. It's also correct that misinformation if the main problem. Misinformation that presumably you are big on.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 31 2020 4:28 utc | 80

Hi b,

Thanks for the great posts on the SARs-COV2 virus. You've been following this from the initial outbreak in China, other Asian countries and Europe before the US got hit hard. I've found your analysis to be of high quality and I wish there were not so many posts that we so inflammatory. But with the virus, especially in the US, being politicized it has lead to tribal behavior with people either aligning with our President, or against him with almost total disregard to the science - all to the detriment of our society - medically, emotionally, and economically. It's about as bad a disaster as could be imagined for a country that thought their epidemiological proneness, and infection control was tops in the world.

I'd like to encourage you , and others here to watch the MedCram series of Covid videos put on by the critical care pulmonologist Dr. Roger Seheult. MedCram is a training site for medical professionals (MD, RN, PA, and others), but since January Dr Seheult has done regular videos on what he's learning on Covid-19 treatment. He's in the ICU treating these cases. He's a really good instructor, and a good communicator. In these videos he fully explains the reason why blood clots and heart damage are indeed a part of the disease. If you start at some of the later videos it may seem overly technical, If you start earlier he walks you though the steps of his analysis in a very straight forward manner. Plus he's constantly summarizing new per reviewed research. I think it's the best site for Covid info.

I don't post often, but I've donated regularly since finding your blog, appreciate you analysis and insight, and wish you the best.

Jim

Posted by: Jim | Jul 31 2020 4:42 utc | 81

The brewster sipping latte's and looking down on the unwashed. What a moron.

Yankistan peasants being fucked over by their elected representatives they keep re-electing is nothing new.
So long as yankistan does not go into suicide bomber mode, everything is looking good. The clowns have decided to take on Russia and China together - this while their own country is breaking down.
US has killed a lot of people over the last however many decades all the while preaching humanitarian, freedom, democracy ect and the yank peasants kept re-electing them - only taking notice if US boots where being shipped back in body bags. What goes round come around. I guess the Brewster thinks as most yanks do that yankistan is the center of the universe.
You US clowns have the right to bear arms to defend against tyranny.
Well instead of winging here dumb yank, use your rights.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 4:45 utc | 82

b's pandemic posts haven't derailed anything, contrary to Brewster's notion.

As of my writing this, this thread has 82 comments. Only 7 discuss the economic impact. That is, they are not caught up in the minutiae of covid. Its more like sidetracked than derailed.

this has been discussed here ad nauseum over the last five months.

Well, covid has been discussed ad nauseam cubed; the fighting never stops. But when I bring up the economic and political impact, you blow it off and drag in the Illuminati and Robert Anton Wilson.

This is exactly why I'm doing this one post and some comments, and then I am gone.

Posted by: john brewster | Jul 31 2020 4:47 utc | 83

fucking brilliant ->the elites are using the pandemic.... who whudda thunk it??

the regulars are all a bunch of ignoramus's because we just can't see it... man i need meds to deal with this kind of outrageous brilliance...

no wonder some of us get tired of this repetitious line trotted out constantly, but i do get a real kick out of those who are just in awe of someone saying it too.. how would it have been any different? opps.. i guess that is a not so brilliant question, lol.. usa capitalism at its finest, eating itself on a regular basis...

Posted by: james | Jul 31 2020 4:49 utc | 84

The pro-Trump/pro-business/faux libertarian war with b and moa continues ...

1) Lockdowns = recession = death

No. As I explained @Jackrabbit @Jul30 22:38 #32 there was a bad recession that was already baked in.

=
2) The good commenters have left

Commenters come and go. Bitching doesn't add much to the discussion.

=
3) Ignoring Deep State machinations?

Nah. b still posts on international affairs and we all still discuss Deep State/Empire.

=
4) Deep State plan to take away our freedom

This is just warmed-over bullshit. The Trump Administration's inept, half-hearted fight against the pandemic is the real problem, not a couple of months of lockdown or wearing a mask in certain places.

=
5) "Morons"

Yeah we've discussed moronic points of view. That may offend anti-lockdown/anti-mask trolls but they won't be missed. In fact, countering their bullshit only wastes are time.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 31 2020 4:50 utc | 85

our

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 31 2020 4:51 utc | 86

The brewster sipping latte's and looking down on the unwashed. What a moron.

Thank you for validating, in your first sentence, my observation that:

a distinct lowering of the tone of the site (morons, morons, morons).

The rest of your bile filled response is worthless. You don't want to discuss economics, you just want to complain about people who do.

As I said, a few comments and I will gladly get out of your hate-filled space.

Nice lynch mob you've grown here, b.

Posted by: john brewster | Jul 31 2020 4:52 utc | 87

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 4:45 utc | 88

Brother you sound just like me now... MoA warn me to get too excited :-)

Posted by: JC | Jul 31 2020 4:54 utc | 88

JC

When yankistan latte sippers start saying poor poor piddifull me I don't have much sympathy for them.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 5:04 utc | 89

It sounds like you are directing this at me, so I'm responding.

1) Lockdowns = recession = death

...a bad recession that was already baked in.

Yes. I said the Fed had papered it over until they could loot $5T and hand it to black rock. L=R=D is your coinage. I never said that.

2) The good commenters have left

Commenters come and go. Bitching doesn't add much to the discussion.

I didn't say that. Other people did. I merely asked people to pay attention to what is going on.


3) Ignoring Deep State machinations?

Nah. b still posts on international affairs and we all still discuss Deep State/Empire.

But we can't seem to have a discussion on the political and economic effects of the lockdown.

4) Deep State plan to take away our freedom

This is just warmed-over bullshit. The Trump Administration's inept, half-hearted fight against the pandemic is the real problem, not a couple of months of lockdown or wearing a mask in certain places.

Its not about Trump. If TPTB wanted Trump to stop the pandemic, they would stomp him (like they did with his Russia initiatives); and he would obey. The failure to end the pandemic means more profits for billionaires, more destruction of those whiny small businessmen, more state and city bankruptcies and privatizations.

So, you are saying I should not be wary of the deep state? Its my friend? They have just been sitting in a corner for four months while covid plays out?

5) "Morons"

Yeah we've discussed moronic points of view. That may offend anti-lockdown/anti-mask trolls but they won't be missed. In fact, countering their bullshit only wastes are time.

This site did not used to just call people names like a bunch of gradeschoolers. My gripe is with the language and how it is used to dismiss anyone via Manichean logic.

Posted by: john brewster | Jul 31 2020 5:08 utc | 90

@ john... i agree with you about the language... we had talked about that before... sometimes i get set off, but i do my best to not direct it at anyone in particular...

Posted by: james | Jul 31 2020 5:13 utc | 91

yankistan latte sippers

Wow! Can you say

Tax-Raising, Latte-Drinking, Sushi-Eating, Volvo-Driving, New York Times-Reading Liberal

That's what the Bushites called me in 2006. (Perhaps you were under the age of reason back then.) You and PeterAU1 really should get some original insults.

Thanks so much for validating my point about the obvious parallels between the 911 propaganda barrage and this one.

Posted by: john brewster | Jul 31 2020 5:13 utc | 92

Brewster no idea who you are talking to as you don't address your bullshit to anyone.
So lets have a look at this "1) Lockdowns = recession = death"

China had serious lockdowns. China went at it not just to spread the curve but to eliminate the virus.

USA deaths 155,285
China deaths 4,634

Fuck off if you want sympathy. No great conspiracy going on amongst your elected representatives. Just total incompetence. And extreme yankistan capitalism which was enshrined into your culture with the cold war.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 5:17 utc | 93

Well. That's a wrap. Bedtime for me.

And I won't be coming back for another spin in this cesspool.

Its been fun - NOT.


Posted by: john brewster | Jul 31 2020 5:17 utc | 94

100

If you couldn't be bothered exercising your yankistan rights and would prefer to come here to whinge about everyone else then good riddance to you. As I said, a fucking latte sipper, a latte sipper that prefers to run and hide rather than fight.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 5:24 utc | 95

Apologies to other Americans here. I get a bit pissed off when some clown puts up a post as US being the center of the universe.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 5:30 utc | 96

I repeatedly read "the disease is spread..." which is incorrect because it is the pathogens (viruses, bacteria, mold, toxic chemicals, radionuclides, electromagnetic radiation, etc.) that are spread and disease is a potential reaction by an organism (such as a human being), typically when there is immune system weakness. There's a big difference between the perception and irrational fear of diseases as prevalent and threatening, and the understanding that pathogens present a major challenge particularly to unhealthy organisms (people). There needs to be more emphasis on preventing illness through sustained practices of healthy living and effective health care, with perhaps less concern about the existence of pathogens that we have little control over, because the former approach gives our bodies a better chance of overcoming infection and disease rather than succumbing to it. I think the focus on suppressing this particular coronavirus, while extremely important, should not overshadow the minimization of other factors that contribute to the susceptibility to disease resulting from exposure to the whole range of pollutants and pathogens in our environments, nor should so many deaths be attributed to Covid-19 when comorbidities and underlying poor health are equally to blame.

Posted by: norecovery | Jul 31 2020 5:41 utc | 97

norecovery 103

Disease susceptibility has more to do with the immune system we are born with than other factors. Go to an old graveyard and many are children. With modern medicine, most of these now survive, but when a new pathogen comes along, many of those will be susceptible. Survival of the fittest is not so much about making a species tougher, rather it is simply survival of the fittest. Herd immunity...

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 5:49 utc | 98

I watched a youtube doco on raising the poor out of poverty in China. It was put up by a latte sipping dogooder from the US who had gone to China to take part in the poverty alleviation program.
He spoke Chinese and first days on the job, he went with Chinese workers into a very remote village in the mountains. He saw the poverty and from his favorite dogooder cafe could never have foreseen what awaited him. He was nervous and giggling, not because he thought it was funny, rather a response to how out of depth he was. After a few days of accompanying Chinese workers, he was put in charge of contacting and talking with some Chinese households in the mountains that were sunk in poverty.
He couldn't talk to them, he was that nervous he couldn't stop giggling. He then left the job. He was a latte sipper who preferred to do things in a cafe with other latte sippers, but kudos to him for posting the video.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 6:01 utc | 99

Wonders never cease

"Victorian coronavirus cases in ICU include Northern Health doctor in his 30s"
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-31/melbourne-doctor-in-icu-among-victoria-coronavirus-cases/12512220

Clowns should Just read the handbook China put out way back when.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 31 2020 6:13 utc | 100

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