Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 27, 2020

A Significant Decline Is Coming For The U.S.

by Passer by

In response to several comments in the last open thread (slightly edited).

Actually there is even some real, and not only relative, decline for the US, for example US life expectancy is dropping. This is a pretty bad sign for a developed country. Same for the UK by the way.

On the issue of China gaining during the Covid crisis, they gained in raw power, for example gained in GDP relatively to the US. And they gained in debt levels too, relatively, as US debt levels exploded due to the crisis. Now you have V-shaped recovery in China and poor, W-shaped double dip recovery in the US. With far more debt added.

Of course there is the issue of public relations and soft power. On the one hand the US blamed China for the pandemic, but on the other hand it embarrassed itself due to its poor performance in containing the pandemic, compared to other countries. And the US lost points around the world due to rejecting WHO right in the middle of the pandemic. Europe and developing countries did not like that at all. Don't forget that Covid also weakened the US military, they have problems with it, including on ships and overseas bases, and even broke the biggest US exercise planned in Europe for the last 30 years. And the pandemic in the US is still raging, its not fixed at all and death rates are increasing again.

Here for example, the futurologists from Pardee Canter that that China gained during the crisis, in raw capabilities. Future research and relative power between countries is their specialty:

Research Associate Collin Meisel and Pardee Center Director Jonathan Moyer use IFs (International Futures) to explore the long-term impact of COVID-19 in China in this Duck Of Minerva blog post" "Where broad measures of material capabilities are concerned, the picture is clear: COVID-19 is closing the gap in relative capabilities for the U.S. and China and accelerating the U.S.-China transition. Through multiple long-term forecast scenarios using the International Futures tool, Research Associate Collin Meisel and Pardee Center Director Jonathan Moyer explain on the Duck of Minerva blog that China is likely to gain approximately one percent of global power relative to the U.S. by 2030 due to the economic and mortality impacts of COVID-19. This share of global power is similar to the relative capabilities of Turkey today.

On the issue of the USD, Stephen Roach also says that there will be a significant decline in the medium term. And the argument is pretty logical - if the US share in the global economy is declining (and it will be declining at least up to year 2060), and if the level of US debts is reaching all time high levels, then the USD will decline. I agree with that argument. It is fully logical.

On the chip/semiconductor issue. David Goldman is skeptical that the US will be able to stop China on this:

The chip ban gives the world an enormous incentive to circumvent the US
Basically Huawei still has advanced suppliers, from South Korea and Japan. And some of them are refusing to yield. The problem for the US is that China is the world's biggest semiconductor market and biggest chip importer on the world, which gives enormous initiative for private businesses to circumvent US made equipment in order to export to China. Then also China is stashing large quantities of chips. By 2025, it should be able to replace foreign production with homegrown. So these bans are lose lose situation for both the US and China - yes, this will cause come costs to China up to 2025. But it will also lead to US companies, such as Qualcomm, to lose the Chinese chip market, which is the largest in the world, and there is nothing to replace it.

These are hundreds of billions of losses for the US due to gradually losing the most lucrative market. Thus, in relative terms, China does not lose from these games, as the US will pay a large price just as China. It is lose-lose situation, but in relative terms the same. US loses just as China loses. And do not forget that China warned that a full US attack on Huawei will lead to Boeing being kicked from the country, which is becoming the biggest aviation market in the world, and will lead to hundreds of billions of losses for that company too, and will probably burry it under Airbus. China needs lots of planes up to 2028, when they will replace them with their own, worth hundreds of billions of dollars. Elevating Airbus over Boeing, which already has big troubles, will be a significant hit for the US aerospace industry.

So China has cards to play too. On the issue of the US getting some countries to ban Huawei, it is again lose - lose situation - that is both the US and some of its allies will lose due to using more expensive 5G equipment and will lose more time to build their networks. So China loses, and US and some allies lose, but in relative terms things remain the same between them power-wise, as they both lose. Do not forget that Germany said that it will continue to use Huawei equipment, and this is the biggest economy in Europe:

Germany's three major telecommunications operators Deutsche Telekom, Vodafone and Telefonica have been actively promoting 5G in recent years. They implement the "supplier diversification" strategy and use Huawei equipment in their networks among other vendors. Peter Altmaier, German minister of economy, told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung on July 11 that Germany would not exclude Huawei from the country's 5G network rollout. "There can only be an exclusion if national security is demonstrably at risk. However, we will strengthen our security measures, regardless of which country the products come from," said Altmaier. "There is no change in Germany's position," a spokesperson of the country's Interior Ministry told local broadcaster ARD on July 16.

So we can say that probably half of Europe will be using Huawei. Still, as you said, a large part of the world will exclude it. Maybe half of world's GDP. Unfortunately things are not perfect. One bright spot in that is that Huawei is betting on emerging markets, and emerging markets have higher growth rates than western markets - that is, they will matter more in the future.

I would agree that the US is harming China, but the damage is not large IMO, as these are mostly lose lose situations where relative power stays the same. And with time, there will be significant damages for the US too, such as losing the biggest chip and aviation markets and the empowerment of Boeing competitors such as Airbus.

So its not too bad in China. Thus, after mentioning all of this, I do not think that Pompeo is smelling blood and moving for the jugular, its not such a situation as China is not that vulnerable, it is more likely to be US elite anger due to the US weakening and China gains during the Covid-19 crisis.

On Hong Kong China had no options. It was a lose-lose situation. If they allowed everything to stay as it is there would be constant color revolution there and they will be constantly in the media. Maybe it is better to stop this once and for all. They hoped that the Covid crisis will give them cover to do this. It did not work very well.

Unfortunately it is right that the Trump strategy of bullying works many times. Supposedly there should be costs for the US in soft power and world opinion, but we are not seeing them. I guess most of the world is too cowardly and prefers to go with the flow. They will abandon the US only after the US lost anyway. Well, it is not an easy situation. Still, the US reactions are very strong and hateful precisely because things are still not good for it and its decline is continuing, regardless of some tactical victories, where in some cases it is a lose lose situation anyway.

The data shows a significant decline incoming for the US.

  • 2019 China 1,27 times bigger in GDP/PPP
  • 2030 China 1,8 times bigger in GDP/PPP
  • US debt to GDP 2019 80%
  • US debt to GDP 2030 125%
  • US debt to GDP 2050 230 %
The Highway Trust Fund (HTF) will be depleted by 2021, the Medicare Hospital Insurance (HI) trust fund by the beginning of 2024, the Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) trust fund in the 2020s, the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation (PBGC) Multi-Employer fund at some point in the mid-2020s, and the Social Security Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) trust fund by 2031. We estimate the theoretically combined Social Security OASDI Trust fund will run out of reserves by 2031.
  • Military budget (before Covid estimates, Trump budget) 2019 3,2 % of GDP - 2030 2,5 % of GDP (Could drop to 2,3 % of GDP due to Covid)
  • Civilian discretionary spending (before Covid estimates) 2019 3,2 % of GDP - 2030 1.8 % of GDP (drop to all time low) (Could drop further due to Covid)

That is not to mention the big divide in US society, and the ongoing Covid crisis, which is still not fixed in the US. But is largely fixed in China. Do you see the decline now? They have a big, big reason to be worried. A significant decline is coming for the US.

Posted by b on July 27, 2020 at 17:53 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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The COVID-19 pandemic revealed that all the “leading” western countries are unable to handle even a relatively moderate public health crisis. The neoliberal economic model considers any aspect of society that isn’t generating a profit as ideologically unsound and targets these areas for “reform” (i.e. privatization).

Sometimes this is done outright, as when a public utility or service is sold to a private, for-profit operator (e.g. British Rail in the UK). But when the government thinks the public will resist and push back it is done by stealth, usually by starving the targeted service/organization of funds and then farming out parts of it to for-profit companies in the name of “efficiency”, “innovation”, “resilience” or some other neoliberal doublespeak concept (they all mean only one thing of course: PROFIT). This is currently happening to the US Postal Service.

Every public healthcare system in the so-called “advanced” nations encompassed by the EU/NATO and Five Spies has been underfunded and subjected to stealth privatization for decades. Furthermore, people in neoliberal societies exist to serve as fodder and raw material for “the economy” (i.e. the plutocrat or oligarch class) and there is no mechanism to deal with emergencies that can’t be milked for a profit. Hence, the half arsed, incompetent, making-it up-as-they-go-along response to COVID-19 that simply writes off older and sick people as expendable.

Neoliberalism began as a US/UK project, that’s why poverty, crime, inadequate health care and social services etc. and governmental and societal dysfunction generally is more advanced there than in, say, Canada and Germany.

So, yes, the US is in decline, maybe even collapsing, but that doesn’t mean the imperial lackey countries are immune to the forces tearing apart the United States. They are just proceeding down that road at a slower pace. If the US falls, the west falls...globalization takes no prisoners.

I live in Canada where sometimes people get a bit smug about how great everything is here compared to the US. In British Columbia, for example, opiate overdose deaths are at a record high and have killed many many more people than COVID-19 since the pandemic began. Housing in cities like Vancouver is increasingly unaffordable, there aren’t enough jobs that pay a living wage, permanent homeless camps exist in city parks, there are entire blocks where people who live in their vehicles park etc.etc.

The reality is that it’s the west that is in decline, not only the United States.

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 28 2020 1:51 utc | 101

China is developing into the ultimate surveillance state.
Posted by: jadan | Jul 28 2020 1:30 utc | 95

But don't you see, dear jadan, it is for the good of the people, if only the rest of the world could see the benevolence of Big Brother we would all be much happier at least that is what the thought police has told me to think. One government, one heart, one mind. Long Live the PRC revolution./s

Posted by: O | Jul 28 2020 1:51 utc | 102

Posted by: O | Jul 27 2020 22:28 utc | 69 the slogan ‘replacing human workers with industrial robots’ (机器换人) frequently appearing in media reports and official policy documents.

Heh, I gotta laugh at that one. The "socialist paradise" turns to robots. Maybe the Communist Party is run by "Transhumanists"? LOL

Oops, that motivated to do a search. Found this:
Transhumanism in China (PDF)

Turns out there are only about 500 Transhumanists in China, and while there is discussion in the mainstream Chinese media, it tends to be on the fringe so far. Although a number of influential Chinese, including various leaders, have spoken about topics relative to Transhumanism technologies, there is no actual push for them as policy, apparently. However, there is a lot of philosophical basis in China for concepts similar to Transhumanism. One reference is to this quote from Mao Zedong: "The life of dialectics is the continuous movement toward opposites. Mankind will also finally meet its doom. When the theologians talk about doomsday, they are pessimistic and terrify people. We say the end of mankind is something which will produce something more advanced than mankind. Mankind is still in its infancy."

Also this comparison of "East Asia" versus the West in terms of brainpower, longevity, etc., all of which supports the author's conclusion that Asia is more suited to Transhumanism than the West, despite the (modern) version having been created in the West (originally from an Iranian, by the way.)


I believe transhumanists, and the West in general, need to wake up and examine the East Asian phenomenon with open eyes. In doing so, we might face realities that are jarring, uncomfortable. For example: East Asian success was NOT gained entirely via Western-style democracies. China and Singapore, for example, had authoritarian, one-party governments - defined, IMO, as “Intelliarchies” or Plato’s “Rule By The Wise” systems. Should we consider: is Western-style democracy, with its huge impediments caused by bickering two-party and multi-party systems, and its corruption-via-corporate-billionaires - absolutely the “perfect” form of government? Does East Asia offer any solutions?

I believe Transhumanism needs to acknowledge, respect, and educate itself on East Asian accomplishments, and what-seems-to-be-inevitable East Asian future leadership. If Transhumanism retains it’s blinkered, Western-centric POV, it runs the risk of looking xenophobic, ignorant, and irrelevant.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 1:56 utc | 103

@ 101 daniel... indeed.. no smugness on this canucks part... where the usa goes - canada follows.. we are all headed down as i see it...

Posted by: james | Jul 28 2020 2:02 utc | 104

Amidst all of the nonsense in the discussion section of the following link, I believe there are some germane comments from individuals that work in the semiconductor space that touch on some of the challenges China's chip industry faces. link

This article notes the substantial challenges TSMC and Samsung would face it they tried to build a cutting edge chip facility without US cooperation: can-tsmc-and-samsung-build-a-production-line-for-huawei-without-us-equipment

I hope their hiring of 3,000 experienced chip engineers accelerates their learning curve. Developing a chip industry on a moment's notice, let alone competing with Samsung and TSMC, is no small chore.

One item not mentioned in the above article is whether China could build many consumer components based on domestic 14nm (or larger) technology. Given China used to spend more importing chips than oil, I assume that even less advanced chips used for TVs, etc. as opposed to cellphones, would be very helpful for China's consumer electronics manufacturing.

They are also making some strides in the flash memory and CPU space, but production quantities are still very low.

Posted by: Schmoe | Jul 28 2020 2:04 utc | 105

Schmoe 105

You are looking at a country that has fiber optic and satellite quantum communication.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 28 2020 2:08 utc | 106

Reading the comments thread that was started by O and DH, I recall reading somewhere in Jeff J Brown's book "BIG Red Book on China", in which he details China's politics and governance structure, extending all the way down to local neighbourhood level, that the Chinese authorities actually encourage people to air complaints and disputes they have, in various ways and through various channels (for example, through the police, local government institutions, committees at work or trade unions).

It is possible that the increased industrial action as measured in numbers of strike actions, walk-outs or other activities over the years in areas such as Guangdong province is one response to that encouragement. If the CCP were really concerned about the increasing industrial action in parts of China, we would expect that (aside from those actions perhaps sponsored by foreign intel agencies) the authorities would send in huge paramilitary or military forces and use violent measures to break up demonstrations or force workers to go back to work. The Western MSM would have a field day picking over violent put-downs and braying that these were evidence of Xi Jinping losing control.

At the time he wrote his book (it's a successor to "China is Communist, Dammit!"), US-born Brown had lived in China (Beijing) for at least 16 years.

Posted by: Jen | Jul 28 2020 2:32 utc | 107

Lose lose China loses less?

Health, education, infrastructure, research and development. The backbone of prosperity. These will all continue no matter trade war or cold war but barring hot war. There must be a doubling time for this - something like an R0. Cold war and sanctions will only serve to increase R&D

US mistakes, hubris ect move in the opposite direction, mistakes multiplying mistakes.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 28 2020 2:54 utc | 108

@Schmoe 105
thanks, interesting. Here is a complementary tho less detailed article on some of the same topics I ran across recently: China Speeds Up Advanced Chip Development [semiconductorengineering.com]

One important point, clearly visible in the tables in the seekingalpha article linked by Schmoe, is that the ultra-small 14nm/7nm stuff is for specialized (but strategically important) applications. Most consumer electronics, industry, and everything else is 40-60nm and up, although of course smaller has benefits to older applications in improve power (i.e. mobile applications and servers) and cost (higher density/wafer)


Posted by: ptb | Jul 28 2020 2:55 utc | 109

Just to add to my post @108, neither GDP nor PPP give an indication as to the foundations of prosperity.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 28 2020 2:58 utc | 110

@ptb 109

Thanks for that link as it was the best summary of the current status quo that I have seen. I agree with your component that enhanced domestic production of 40-60nm will prove very beneficial. Also if they can establish competitive memory chips that should lower prices in that niche and help their balance of payments.

Posted by: Schmoe | Jul 28 2020 3:12 utc | 111

@ karlof1 | Jul 27 2020 22:59 utc | 74

Glad to learn of your valuation of Pearl S. Buck's The Good Earth.

It certainly seemed real to me when I read it, once many, many years ago, but without fully comprehending it.

Then again recently after reading it again, it helped me to understand why Mao insisted, while only halfway along toward taking control of all of China, that if communism was going to work in China, that power would have to flow up from the people, and not the other way around. To make that possible Mao, again with only half the country yet under his control, began building thousands of schools in rural areas where schools had never before existed.

Mao's genius seems to me, in retrospect, to amount almost to omniscience.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jul 28 2020 3:14 utc | 112

ptb

US as an one excuse for its current hostilities against China is 'intellectual property' theft. Makes me think of ninja Chinese sneaking around removing peoples brains.
But back to semiconductors. One of China's biggest imports is chips, mostly made by machines using US tech. Many industries are highly specialized and it often makes sense from small community level to national and global level to by a product from those that specialist in that product.
China has been content to buy chips, but that will now change due to necessity. Yankistan can now expect to get its brains hacked, but I am also reminded of the Scientists in the Manhattan Project being the ones to pass on much information to the Soviet Union.
Yankistan will be leaking like a sieve. I guess that's why both oz and the poms are beefing up their secret police laws. Wont be long before we are getting shot trying to run through checkpoint charlie to the free east.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 28 2020 3:20 utc | 113

It is clear that the US is in decline. It is clear the US military is bloated and overpriced but it can still turn most countries into rubble (even without using nuclear weapons) and has done a few recently. Mostly the US uses its reserve currency status and control of financial networks to punish countries that do not go along with its program. Can you say sanctions. but as Hemingway said about bankruptcy - it happens slowly and then all at once - is probably how it will continue to go. It is even losing its technological advantage. Boeing used to be the leader and made reliable planes. Now they sometimes fall out of the air. Things like high speed railways used to be the kind of thing the US did well. Now California can't get one built. China has built thousands of miles of them. Russia built a 19 kilometer bridge to Crimea in 2 years after 2 years of planning. It appears to be competently built on time and on budget. Do you really think this could happen in the USA now? In the 70s the US was the leader in environmental actions. I wonder if the present day Congress could even pass bills comparable to the Clean Air ACT or the Clean water bill. US national politics are a mean joke. Our choice this year for President - two 70+ old white men with mental issues. Our health system is overpriced. Medical bills are one of the main reasons for personal bankruptcies. As others mentioned the US life expectancy is falling. As Dmitri Orlov who watched the Soviet Empire fail said - Empire hollowed out the Soviet Union till it failed, I see it doing the same thing in the US.

Posted by: gepay | Jul 28 2020 3:46 utc | 114

The current 'adjustment' in the USD & living standards is just what the doctor ordered to allow elites to roll out "tech wave 2" - there is precious little gain to be had from further staffing & wages cuts to the average shit-kicker, so now the bourgeoisie, medicos, architects, academics, writers plus all the rest of the tertiary educated types who blew hundreds of thousands on an education guaranteed to keep them employed, are about to be tossed on the scrap heap.

We already know from previous stunts such as 911 & the 2008 'global financial meltdown' that those most disadvantaged by this entirely predictable destruction of lives will be easily diverted into time-wasting and pointless arguments about the real cause of the mess.

This will allow the elites to use that diversion to funnel all federal funds into subsidising the capital costs of the retooling, as both parties have begun to with the despicable CARES Act, supported by the mad christian right in the senate, as well as the so-called socialists in the Congress squad.

All the Cares Act does is inject capital into big corporations, boosting their stock price & leaving citizens to lose most of their unemployment benefit. Citizens get evicted from their homes. This time it will be tenants as well as home owners.

Both of those factions of elite enablers are going to create a great deal of noise and crass finger pointing. The squad will jump up and down about this being a deliberate attack on citizens by the elite while senate fundies will claim that this 'retooling' is the result of unreasonable pay & working conditions demands by the communist unions.

What should be a universal expression of disgust will be reduced to just another culture war.

Neither will ever admit that it is far too late to be worrying about cause, it is time to concern themselves with effect, because to do so would create focus back on where the money was going at time when it is important to be saying "everyone is hurting, including the elites". Fools.

Eventually when the deed has been done assorted scummy senators & creepy congress people will announce "It is time to move on" That will be a signal that treasury tanks are dry, the elites have gotten everything which wasn't nailed down so now the citizens can roll clawing & scratching in the mud.

I have no doubt that will be the direction of discussion here as well, it is much easier to sit at a keyboard digging out obscure 'facts' that 'prove' one point of view or another, than it is to leave the keyboard behind and put work into resisting the elites and in doing so forcing a change that is more citizen friendly.

Posted by: John A Lee | Jul 28 2020 4:04 utc | 115

gepay

With the return of Russia to the geo-political arena, US can no longer destroy counties at will through conventional weapons nor color revolutions and AQ freedom fighters.
Trump decided to go nuclear, so Russia placed its nuclear umbrella over it allies.
US can no longer destroy countries at will. It can attack a country and risk ensuring its own destruction.
So back to hybrid war and proxie war ... but now the field is narrowed down to five-eyes and in the case of China - India.
So to keep Russia out, yankistan has to rely on conventional war and hybrid war, though we are looking at a country where the lunatics are in charge of the asylum so anything could happen.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 28 2020 4:31 utc | 116

Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 1:56 utc | 103

You've got to get over your fear of death. For an armed robber, you sure are a contradiction. You've got a few years on me but whatever, our time is limited. Trumps intellectual property, I had a vision of Trumps black clad ninja warriors with swords hacking out brains. We've got one life. I've done what I thought must be done, but some things I would have liked to do, I doubt I will.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 28 2020 4:58 utc | 117

Posted by: ptb | Jul 28 2020 2:55 utc | 109 Most consumer electronics, industry, and everything else is 40-60nm and up, although of course smaller has benefits to older applications in improve power (i.e. mobile applications and servers) and cost (higher density/wafer)

The CPU in my box is an AMD 2600X, which is 12nm tech. It's manufactured by TSMC. Almost all of the newer AMD CPUS since 2018 are I believe 7nm.


Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 5:16 utc | 118

5G, who wants this?

The MNCs producing it, the MSS, NSA and GCHQ, the IoT idiots and all authoritarians on the globe. Consumers are happy with 3G: many don't even have 4G reception - give that to them.

With IoT more unemployment, more electricity and Internet dependency, more chance of hacks or natural disruptions (solar flares), more 1984.

More is not always better at all.

Posted by: Antonym | Jul 28 2020 5:29 utc | 119

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 28 2020 4:58 utc | 117 You've got to get over your fear of death.

Don't know how often I have to say this: my philosophy is *not* based on a fear of death, but an awareness of it. Unlike the rest of you who have zero awareness of how *all* of your belief systems *and* behavior are based on an *abject* fear of death.

That said, no, I don't have to "get over" anything. Suggest you "get over" your lack of imagination.

"our time is limited."

You think I don't know that? What the hell do you think I'm doing?

"We've got one life."

Speak for yourself. Until I'm buried (assuming I don't have myself cryonically frozen) I disagree.

Stupid arguments against life extension
The Life Extension is “Just a Fear of Death” Argument
Life extension, human rights, and the rational refinement of repugnance (From Aubrey de Grey, one of the foremost life extension researchers)
Ethical Issues in Human Enhancement

Bottom line: I've heard these bullshit arguments many times before. They've been answered by people in the business of giving a shit about your tired ethics and lack of imagination. Stop acting like you're conveying something new and interesting to me. You're not.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 5:36 utc | 120

Just read an "opinion piece" demonstrated how remote from reality are not only people like Pompeo from a"liberal" commentator:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pompeos-surreal-speech-on-china/ar-BB17bk0t

The Chinese Communist Party wants a tributary international system where smaller countries are deferential to larger powers, instead of a rules-based international order where small countries enjoy equal rights.

HAHAHA!

Posted by: aquadraht | Jul 28 2020 5:36 utc | 121

Meanwhile, great line from an infosec researcher and teacher here in San Francisco about whether university classes will reopen:

Sam Bowne @sambowne Jul 26
Q: "When will this class be offered?" A: "Difficult to say, because there's a critical budget crisis at the college, city, state, and national level, and most if not all the officials at every level appear to be corrupt, incompetent, and insane."

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 5:39 utc | 122

The US/UK declining won't bother most billionaires with those passports: they just buy any other. Stuck are the millions of others.

Equally "China" ascending brings joy for all billionaires around the globe holding stock depending on Chinese near monopolies, including Anglo-es.

Some middle class Chinese are beginning to see that dying "rich" is is very limited goal, as zero can be taken to the Here After and the price for this Now is too high. Money is not everything. Welcome to this select club, Chinese brothers and sisters. Sure, a bit is good to live but amassing is a waste of precious time and attention.

Posted by: Antonym | Jul 28 2020 5:40 utc | 123

Richard Steven Hack 120
Waddoo I call you .. Rich? hack? .. Come on cough up. You're an old fart and I'm not going to last much longer.

This shit about minds lasting forever .. a lot of religions think that. Lots of virgins for the jihadis and no doubt underage virgins for the Epstein types. Once we're gone, we're gone. But who knows, perhaps Musk can come up with a solution?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 28 2020 5:54 utc | 124

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 28 2020 5:54 utc | 124 Waddoo I call you .. Rich? hack?

Just don't call me "Dick Hack" - that makes me sound like I'm a Lorena Bobbitt survivor. LOL

"a lot of religions think that"

I'm aware. You'd be amazed how many people who think life extension is a bad idea justify their opinion on the basis of some BS about "human souls" and the like and whether it's "against God's plan".

You should read up on Aubrey de Grey's work. He's got a straightforward research plan that aims at dealing with the common aging problems. He predicts with an a relatively modest outlay of research funding he could extend *healthy* lifespan up to at least 120 years. Here's an interview with him. I like his phrase "pro-aging trance" for those who don't get it.

Then there's nanotechnology. Once it's more ubiquitous, applied to biological research it would enable *much* faster gathering of precise data on how biological mechanisms function, including brain activity and cellular function. Applied to medicine, it would enable basically fixing anything physically wrong with a body short of disintegration or destruction of information in the brain. In other words, get your heart blasted apart by a shotgun - it would be fixable.

Minimalist example: The Future of Nanotechnology in Medicine
Another: Engines of life

You have to have some idea of what's going on in the science to know what's possible. I haven't been following nanotech as closely as I use to twenty years ago, so I'm a bit out of touch. Same with the anti-aging research for the most part, although I pick up things now and again.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 6:22 utc | 125

Trump's national security adviser tests positive for Covid-19

He's only 54, so he'll probably survive. Plus from images, he appears to look reasonably healthy. No info as to whether he has any comorbidities. He apparently caught it from his daughter (once again, family transmission is probably the most common way the virus spreads.)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 6:31 utc | 126

Ya think? LOL If I were a rival of the US, I'd want this idiot to continue sending the country down the drain.

Beijing would prefer Trump be reelected as it gives China an advantage internationally, analyst says

However, this could be a Deep State propaganda piece intended to 1) damage Trump by suggesting his campaign might be assisted by "Chinese hackers" ("Russian hackers" are now so passe, so switch to "Chinese hackers"), and 2) contribute to hatred of China by linking their alleged preferences to Trump. A two-for win-win for the Deep State.

Or it could simply be true. No one is ever likely to know, absent someone official in China saying one way or the other. Not that it would matter - Putin said nothing about Trump in 2016 except that he thought Trump was "colorful" or something to that effect - and the MSM reported it as "Putin prefers Trump".

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 6:36 utc | 127

India goes after China on another tack...

Exclusive: Alibaba, Jack Ma summoned by Indian court over ex-employee's lawsuit

If you can't beat 'em (up) on the border, sue 'em. LOL

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 6:39 utc | 128

The imbeciles are still stuck in the eighteenth century Newtonian universe. They apply force, or to same more precisely violence, and think that other countries and people will react like billiard balls. Fortunately, human affairs are indeterminate and that's not the way that reality works. Another one of their errors, which they refuse to give up, and is also from this Newtonian universe, is economic determinism. There are not economic laws. All economic activity takes place within a historical context, and history by it's definition is relative.

Posted by: Peter | Jul 28 2020 6:47 utc | 129

From Bernie Sanders:

Bernie Sanders @BernieSanders 3h
The GOP COVID-19 bill includes

$2 billion for F-35s
$1.75 billion for an FBI building
$1 billion for surveillance planes
$375 million for armored vehicles
$360 million for missile defense
$283 million for Apache helicopters
$0 for millions facing eviction

It's Dead on Arrival

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 6:57 utc | 130

Someone posted this line on Twitter Monday: "I am unable to distinguish my country from V for Vendetta." With a picture showing a cop shoving a shotgun in a woman's face.

Did I not reference that movie just a couple days ago? The problem is that there is no "V" in America. Not yet, anyway...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 7:03 utc | 131

And directly related to this plus b's earlier post on why the Houston Chinese consulate was targeted...

Was the Chinese Consulate in Houston Really a Hotbed of Economic Espionage?

tl;dr Answer: No. But they don't mention b's analysis, which is likely equally true. I would agree that this was more election politics than anything else, although b is undoubtedly correct that the State Department squabble was the stimulus for this particular political move. The risk, as the article notes, is the likelihood of more of this BS over the next 99 days until the election.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 7:15 utc | 132

@Mark2 | Jul 27 2020 21:13 utc | 39

So my personal opinion ? we will see a US regime chainge faster than a lot here predict. Much faster.

Genuine question: What would the US regime look like after the regime change?

I don't see the present US riots as 'protests', I have no idea what they are 'protesting' against. Certainly it is not 'racism'. As far as I can tell, the present riots are engineered by one oligarch faction in order to destroy the US economy, the rule of law in order to bring down the other oligarch faction (Trump).

Regardless who 'wins' this struggle, there will be no legitimate regime change in the US because no such leaders are in sight. All you will get is accelerated destruction internally and externally.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 28 2020 7:15 utc | 133

Kudos to passer by & b for picking up on that in-depth over view.
The prize winning comment for me was ———
Vietnam vet @ 83. Take another look. Easily overlooked but very deep and considerd !
The best comments help to add to what we know. Enabling us to move our own view forward. His commment did this for me.
Corvid
The US and U.K. are using this virus on humans in the same way ‘Monsanto’ are using ‘G M ‘ on crops !!! Take some time to think about that please ?
The manufactured unrest in the U S is part of that.
This govenment is treating protesters / the public, black or white as WEEDS, take another look and tell me I’m wrong.
Is this what trump ment ‘draining the swamp’

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 28 2020 7:24 utc | 134

The media the polls & the idiots like sanders have done juch a good job of marginalising marxist philosophy in the US that while there is no doubt the US is about to have a revolution, there is also no doubt that it will be a fascist revolution.

It will be much like the german hitlerite revolution in that it will stem from an allegedly 'legal' government - most likely that of D Trump if the failure of USD is synched with the coming election, and it will succeed even though the numbers of inhabitants who prefer a caring, sharing economy vastly outnumber those in the US who go to sleep counting the blacks, browns & yellows they will shoot.

Why?

Because the nazis & assorted other fascists have been permitted to organise, whereas anyone with a conscience & a gun who even considers bringing about revolutionary change has been monitored, recorded and forced to acquiesce either blatantly by the FBI or covertly by banks, sheriffs & 'churches'.

Social disruption is about to happen - anyone who openly resists white supremacy will die. After that the fascists will control the government in spite of, initially anyway, not having majority citizen support.

Then all the economic remedies which should have been offered to all citizens will be given to the christian right plus any other whites who haven't called out for an across the board fair society.
The resultant shift to racist policies will persuade the fools their 'unworkable' strategies of a fair deal for all have no legs, so they will swing behind the new nazis.
Not voting won't seem to matter 'cos ordinary citizens' beliefs are 'correctly interpreted' by the (white) population all the rest are just lazy whiners playing victim.

Yeah history rhymes, it doesn't repeat, but no one can deny that donnie trump as the figurehead of fascists does have an inescapable & recognizable meter.

Posted by: John A Lee | Jul 28 2020 8:02 utc | 135

@Mark2 | Jul 28 2020 7:24 utc | 134

Is this what trump ment ‘draining the swamp’

Perhaps it was a typo for 'training the swamp', it sure looks like it.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 28 2020 8:19 utc | 136

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 28 2020 1:51 utc | 101

It is mostly the way you look at it. When you compare income inequality, the United States and China are quite similar.

Income inequality is lower in Europe, because of political transfer not some economic magic. The Canadian system is similar to Europe.

The Covid-19 hype is a public health disaster, as people are threatened by weak immune systems not a single virus. If you have a weak immune system, the name of the virus that kills you does not matter, any virus (or bacterium) will do.

But sure, you cannot stop neither China's nor India's 1.4 billion people in search for natural resources when they have the technological edge.


Posted by: somebody | Jul 28 2020 8:52 utc | 137

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 6:57 utc | 130

Bernie, Tulsi et al AKA "The Art of Selling False Hope to the Masses".

Evidence: Take a look at how fast the communists in the US got wiped out in the early 20th century when they weren't just sockpuppets.

Posted by: J W | Jul 28 2020 8:58 utc | 138


As someone explains slavery as a “necessary evil to build America”, you can call the underpaid worker as a necessary sacrifice done earlier to push China forward.

Posted by: Man | Jul 28 2020 9:13 utc | 139

The question is do you want a nation resembling a sterile heartless (for profit) cornfield. Or do you want a nation with the health and resilience of a wild-flower meadow ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 28 2020 9:27 utc | 140

Do you want a nation of trump clones and cul-desac Karen’s or a vibrant diverse and humain nation rich in culture. Love not hate or for profit violence.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 28 2020 9:39 utc | 141

J W #138

Take a look at how fast the communists in the US got wiped out in the early 20th century when they weren't just sockpuppets.

And Russia and Chile and Bolivia and China - But they do win and the entire nation wins with them.

Yes the killers are always there and desperate to block the rise of freedom but to try, to struggle and to succeed is sweet victory. The USA today is the situation that always results when people's revolution fails. Take your pick.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 28 2020 9:41 utc | 142

Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 6:36 utc | 127

Lost in translation, or the media jumping to convenient conclusions, here you have some translations for the qualifier Putin said about Trump, Яркий.

Bright
Vivid
Colorful
Shining
Flamboyant
Glaring
Lively
Gaudy
Zippy
Garish
Picturesque....

https://translate.academic.ru/%D1%8F%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9/xx/en/

Posted by: Paco | Jul 28 2020 10:37 utc | 143

Regarding the workers driven-to-suicide libel (almost a blood libel) repeated by the resident troll, if you compare the numbers quoted with a similar cohort of almost entirely young unmarried women in the US, the numbers of suicides are lower among the factory workers in China. There are different family pressures in Chinese society and most are migrants, but if you blame suicides on their form of capitalism you have to acknowledge that our system can be even harder on people.

I suggest a book entitled “Factory Girls” ISBN 978-0385520188 for anyone who actually wants to get a glimpse into the lives of these striving hard-working ambitious young people in booming southern China.

But nothing beats actually going there, not just the factories and amazing markets but the shopping areas like women’s fashion in Dongmen, the parks, the beaches, the tourist sites, the malls etc.

I also think China has a long way to go in terms of actual productivity, outside of state of the art facilities, many people get ahead by working extremely hard, saving, deferring gratification and heavily investing in education and in their children. Demographics suggest they need to get richer before they get too much older. The US, if it truly wants to crush China has many tools and advantages. Being ruthless and unpredictable is an advantage in itself, so far the Chinese, unlike Putin’s Russia, are passive and reactive, parrying rather than hitting back hard when a red line is crossed. I don’t know much about the central government workings (very little need to know in doing business with Chinese companies), I wonder if they even could have a strong nationalist leader that rules by whims in a Trumpian EO fashion.

Posted by: BillB | Jul 28 2020 10:54 utc | 144

@rsh 118 ... Re: AMD 2600x was 12nm
I stand corrected, then - thanks. My understanding is that it is primarily motivated by reducing power consumption.

Posted by: ptb | Jul 28 2020 11:33 utc | 145

Antonym #119

3G.! That was abandoned here 5 + ago.

That is the indicater of USA decline. That country is so far in retro that it will crash into art Deco any minute.

If you will settle for 3G you may as well issue bows and arrows to the boys in Afghanistan.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 28 2020 11:34 utc | 146

RSH #130

Bernie Sanders? I'll believe that when I see it.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 28 2020 11:38 utc | 147

China still sends pharmaceuticals to US. Perhaps out of kindness. That could stop any time. All they get for pharma products is dollars without value they don’t need.

For that matter they still provide us with masks. When 3M was challenged about mask production no one thought for one second about firing up domestic mask production. They phoned the Chinese partner. No one in US has any other idea.

I would assume all the electronica China ships to US is chock full of backdoors. It is pretty normal to do that. Back doors can be opened any time.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jul 28 2020 12:30 utc | 148

Funny little story:

US Citizens in Iceland Want Ambassador Removed Amid Firearms Dispute, COVID-19 Controversy

A petition to relieve US Ambassador to Iceland Jeffrey Ross Gunter of his duties has been placed on the White House site.

In the petition, Gunter is accused of "misrepresenting" the people of the US in Iceland, as well as mismanaging consular services and offending Iceland, an "invaluable US ally".

One of the reasons for their discontent is that Gunter, despite being assigned to a country that has consistently ranked as the most peaceful in the world, wanted the State Department to obtain a special permission to carry a gun. CBS described Gunter as "paranoid" about his security since coming to the Icelandic capital of Reykjavik and reported that he also sought door-to-door armoured car service, as well as a stab-proof vest. At the same time, the US Embassy in Iceland placed a job listing in Icelandic newspapers looking for local bodyguards in what US government officials described as a bid to "placate Gunter's irrational concerns".

Those annoying provincials. They don't know civilization...

--//--

@ many here

We don't know where China will end up. But, according to scientific socialist theory, we know the Chinese socialist model is just a transition one. It is not - and I repeat, not - the definitive socialist system. The CCP itself openly admits that ("Chinese characteristics"), and it frequently repeats that each country must find its own formula, that it is not up to them to decide how socialism should or will be implemented in each country (hence the Chinese apparent obliviousness to the internal contradictions of countries with which it does business).

And even socialism is a transitory system itself, just a historical epoch where capitalism and communism mix.

So, don't worry, Westerners: the rest of the world won't be a carbon copy of China, and China's model is not definitive. This is a mathematical certainty. Memento mori is a well known maxim to the CCP, as they know their task is historical.

Posted by: vk | Jul 28 2020 12:32 utc | 149

Too many detractors are viewing America's decline from a static snapshot, and in most cases that snapshot they are working with was taken prior to the pandemic. Economics is a dynamic system, though, and you need to take first, second, and third derivatives to see which way the trends are headed.

Well, actually, since the covid blew back in the West's face, you don't really have to take any derivatives at all to see the trend because all indicators are pointing in the same direction now, but the derivative of those curves can show you what is possible and what is delusional wishful thinking.

One example of this simplistic and static "snapshot" kind of thinking comes from the trolls promoting the imperial narrative by claiming "Inequality is just as bad in China as it is in the United States!". Aside from the fact that this claim is simply wrong (Gini index in USA = 41.4 and Gini index in China = 38.5) it overlooks the more important trends, such as stagnant and declining living standards for the bulk of the population in the United States versus double-digit annual improvements in living standards in China. For regular Americans there has been no real economic growth, with some demographics even seeing negative economic growth, since the 1970s. Meanwhile, since then the bottom 50% of China's population experienced more income growth than America's top 0.01%, who have gotten most of America's new income in that period.

When a rising tide causes most of your boats to sink, then you're doing it wrong... or your tide isn't really rising and is instead just an accounting gimmick.

The United States can no longer even fake economic growth by having the 0.1% buy and sell each others' equities on the stock market and ponzi scheme the entire nonsense into the stratosphere. The US economy has gone into steep decline in absolute terms, as the post by karlof1 @11 puts numbers to. China's economy has resumed growth, and that growth is in real concrete terms and not ponzi smoke and mirrors.

China's and America's economies have immense inertia and usually have the ability to coast through periods of economic difficulty on momentum alone. China's economy never really lost that momentum from the covid pandemic. It turned out to be just an extra-long Golden Week holiday for them, after which the gears of productivity cranked right back up. America's economy came to a sudden halt with covid hitting it like a spanner through the spokes of the flywheel. Spinning that flywheel back up and regaining the economy's momentum has not yet happened, and will take years of hardship to even regain part of the momentum that has been lost. This is because the US no longer has the big industrial base that has high economic multipliers (leverage to spin the flywheel). The service sector is an economic lightweight that can ride that spinning flywheel for long periods with little drag on it, but the service sector doesn't have the economic muscle to spin it up from a dead standstill.

Up to now America's decline has mostly been relative. 2020 is the inflection point where that decline has turned absolute. The trends (first and higher order derivatives) have been negative for decades, and nobody has been able to reverse those trends in all that time. There is no chance that those trends can be reverse now that the nation has lost all of its economic momentum.

Where this is going is obvious. How long it will take for all the pieces to rain back down onto the ground is different matter. If America intends to do something kinetic, it doesn't have much time.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 28 2020 12:40 utc | 150

Posted by: ptb | Jul 28 2020 11:33 utc | 144 My understanding is that it is primarily motivated by reducing power consumption.

That's involved, of course. Reducing power consumption reduces heat which means the CPU can hit higher clock frequencies. Nonetheless these AMD chips still run hot, just like the AMD CPU in my ten-year-old previous machine.

When I put this machine together, I was concerned for a month or so that the motherboard was messed up or that I'd not heat-sunk the CPU properly, as the temperature seemed high. First I thought Linux wasn't reporting the temperature correctly. Looking at the source code for the temperature reporting utility, I determined that it was in fact reporting correctly. Finally I persuaded myself that it was reasonable and in any event it was unlikely the CPU's lifespan would be reduced enough to be a problem before it got replaced in 3-5 years anyway. I just hear all the fans in the box rev up when I view a particularly large image. But that's just how the AMD CPUs work - they rev up to maximize performance, then drop back when the load goes down. So it's all good.

In a few years I'll replace this box with another CPU, probably an AMD that comes out this year or next. That one should be on 7nm.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 13:16 utc | 151

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 28 2020 11:38 utc | 146 Bernie Sanders? I'll believe that when I see it.

Was from his Twitter account - unless, of course, it was hijacked in the recent Twitter hack. :-)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 28 2020 13:18 utc | 152

Is it not possible that the loss of many crops grown in the southeast of China due to the massive flooding will offset the gains by fewer deaths from C-19? and the locusts? China may have problems feeding 1.3 billion people.
There are still many skeptics regarding 5G, both for its adverse health effects on people and the ease with which 5G of Huawei can transmit information through this system to its data bases. Although at this point it seems unlikely that there is any new information to be gained by China, why leave our systems available?
As far as the US life expectancy declining, IMO we have the same problem as the UK. We have slowly but surely been brainwashed by our medical professionals and big pharma to be dependent on medications to either "cure" or "manage" any medical problem. We have many Type 2 diabetics and reportedly 30 to 40% of US citizens are obese or overweight. This does not contribute to longevity.
Another point about China. They love to micromanage the population and do. IMO, our so-called representatives and/or bureaucrats are attempting to do the same thing here through C-19. Tracking our contacts? Forcing illegal masks and closing of businesses? Demanding that we be vaccinated? Please. There are now several different medications that can mitigate and/or relieve the symptoms of this contagious flu. No vaccine needed.

Posted by: lizzie dw | Jul 28 2020 14:28 utc | 153

lizzie dw @152

I'll reply to your post so your employers will give you an extra nickel.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 28 2020 14:41 utc | 154

NYT Editorial: China’s Claims to the South China Sea Are Unlawful. Now What?

Yeah, should've thought about that before that invasion and annihilation of Iraq thing. You know, jurisprudence and all that stuff...

Posted by: vk | Jul 28 2020 15:32 utc | 155

I would assume all the electronica China ships to US is chock full of backdoors. It is pretty normal to do that. Back doors can be opened any time.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jul 28 2020 12:30 utc | 147

You're projecting mentality of the west country. I've worked with these kinds of outsourcing production a lot in the past and around here in Asia China, Japan, or other the manufacturing company we hired usually worked with minimum levels of expertise or industrial machines. They only care about getting their contract and fulfilling their part of the deal. They'll ask you what they should make copies of and they'll presented you with their best copies possible with their available resources and if you're satisfied enough with their quality then they'll go ahead asking their workers that most likely have little to nothing of any knowledge of what kind of items they're actually making and would just rather plainly following their management director to manufacture them.

I noted that company such as these that only live through manufacturing contract doesn't really care about nor interested in what they're making or for who they're intended for.

Unless you're the inventors and the main producers of the products it's really pointless to gimmick up anything you make because the risk simply doesn't worth it for their company reputation.

Posted by: Lucci | Jul 28 2020 15:48 utc | 156

BillB @Jul28 10:54 @143

The US, if it truly wants to crush China has many tools and advantages. Being ruthless and unpredictable is an advantage in itself

That's an important observation that few seem to appreciate.

=

William Gruff @Jul28 12:40 #149

If America intends to do something kinetic, it doesn't have much time.

Going 'kinetic' has many risks. There are a number of things they can do before going 'kinetic' like ending Western trade with China, freezing China's assets, disrupting China's plans for New Silk Road, etc. As China hits an economic wall (of sorts) CPC might be further set-back by internal turmoil.

My best guess is that after taking the wind out of China's sails, we enter a generational war of attrition like Cold War I. Just like Cold War I, tensions would always be high so kinetic action is possible at any time.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 28 2020 15:50 utc | 157

This will be very good for the US I think. Those of us who can should really think about voting for the Green Party - not that I believe it has a chance to win, but to give a good account to those who measure these things of the desires of the American people at this point. They will notice, even if they suppress the results. We need to quietly and firmly state our priorities to those who have worked so hard to avoid them.

If the race to do what needs to be done in the world goes to other nations, perhaps this one will, as Russia did, take the time to look back on its mistakes, with a geriatric leadership that may at best be able to say the important thing:-

We have made mistakes.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 28 2020 15:55 utc | 158

O | Jul 27 2020 21:12 utc | 38

Have any of you been to Antartica? Mt. Everest? The Amazon? Machu Picchu? Sonoran Desert?

Oh! Look a squirrel!
William Gruff and dh are not spouting about Antartica, Mt. Everest,The Amazon, Machu Picchu, or the Sonoran Desert. I am sure that neither of them would, if they knew nothing about them.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 28 2020 16:05 utc | 159

The US lacks the capacity to erect an "economic wall" that can stop China's development. Trump's "trade war" was an attempt to do just that, and America got steamrolled.

To be sure, the US can attempt even more irrational and desperate acts such as trying to seize assets owned by Chinese people and organizations in the US, but that would be America shooting itself in the head rather than just the foot.

The US simply does not posses the ability to "take the wind out of China's sails". That is not something that is within America's power to accomplish without going kinetic by, for instance, trying to enforce a naval blockade of China's maritime transport routes. At this point there are no economic measures America can take that will not do vastly more damage to America than to China. Both trade war and bio attack were the best options America had, and America has suffered grievously from those efforts with relatively minimal impact on China. China's economy remains fundamentally strong while America's economy is devastated.

As for disrupting China's international development efforts, America has been trying its hardest for years now with the only impact being minor delays in China's plans. The only way to truly disrupt China's international development efforts would be to offer a better deal, but America no longer has anything to offer that is better. The only option left to America to delay the BRI for longer would be a kinetic one, and the door is closing on that.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 28 2020 16:19 utc | 160

jack rabbit @ 81,

Your item 1. reads:

from the perspective of the US 'Deep State' or Western power-elite the failure to fight the virus is a net positive if the repercussions are blamed on China (in addition to other 'positives' from their perspective: saving on cost of care to elderly, boosting Big Pharma profits, etc.) -

It will not be possible to blame China, simply because no one believes the US press any longer, and there is no convincing the woman or man on the street that US handling of the virus has been in any way competent. We may not understand its virulence, and we perhaps don't understand yet how to cope with it, but the example of China has been clear from the earliest moments, and that speaks louder than any false rhetoric can claim.

We know what we have been experiencing in comparison with others who acted with celerity, and that basically was what was needed. The US chose to go it alone, at its peril. It stuck by a set of rules it had made for itself in these last years - rules which have not benefited the people at large. It all comes down to that.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 28 2020 16:23 utc | 161

@ Posted by: BillB | Jul 28 2020 10:54 utc | 143

You're looking the world from an idealist point of view.

China, in itself, is not the problem for the USA. If just one and a half billion people with a culture (and religion) completely different from the West was the problem, then India would be just as a big of a problem as China - but that's not the case.

If the mere capacity to destroy the world was sufficient enough, then the USA would've solved all its problems by the 1950s, as it has the nuclear arsenal large enough. The USSR could've also have solved its problems if world destruction was a solution.

No. The USA's main problem is that capitalism is entering its decadent phase. It is not being able to keep its (capitalist) empire that glued anymore. It is only when capitalism is doing well that America is doing well:

Even if there is a new cold war, Washington can hardly win it

Broad support helps China withstand US shock wave: Global Times editorial

Posted by: vk | Jul 28 2020 16:23 utc | 162

I'm sorry, that was jack rabbit @ 87

Posted by: juliania | Jul 28 2020 16:29 utc | 163

re: Covid-19 in Mexico
alarming lack of testing [guardian]

the desire to keep exports going has nothing to do with it, I'm sure

Posted by: ptb | Jul 28 2020 16:36 utc | 164

O | Jul 27 2020 21:33 utc | 49

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Chinese_labour_unrest

Care to comment on that.

I would not quote a Zionist dominated source like Wikipedia on anything politically sensitive and the article you refer to is in any case 10 years out of date. However if you read it it refers to two foreign-owned firms, and it mentions that there are (In 2010)plans to double wages in the next ten years which has happened. The article also states"

Strikes are not new in China. Chinese authorities have long tolerated limited, local protests by workers unhappy over wages or other issues.[40] The Pearl River Delta alone has up to 10,000 labor disputes each year. In the spring of 2008, a local union official described strikes as "as natural as arguments between a husband and wife".[41] The Chinese government sought balance on the issue; while it has recently repeated calls for increased domestic consumption through wage increases and regulations, it is also aware that labour unrest could cause political instability.[42][43]

In response to the string of employee suicides at Foxconn, Guangdong CPC chief Wang Yang called on companies to improve their treatment of workers. Wang said that "economic growth should be people-oriented".[44] As the strikes intensified, Wang went further by calling for more effective negotiations mechanisms, particularly the reform of existing trade unions. At the same time, authorities began shutting down some websites reporting on the labour incidents, and have restricted reporting, particularly on strikes occurring at domestic-owned factories.[46][47] Guangdong province also announced plans to "professionalize union staff" by taking union representatives off of company payroll to ensure their independence from management influence.

Which indicates to me that the suicides alerted the government to the fact that these firms were making the lives of their workers miserable and took steps to improve the control of them. They obviously realized that the Union officials had been bought by the management. I wonder how the British government or the USG would have reacted? What I am certain about is that the MSM would have been much less enthusiastic about reporting it.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 28 2020 16:38 utc | 165

karlof1 @74

Thank you for this overview of China's development, with the reference to the Pearl Buck novel, which I imagine many of us have read. On many of our threads, there have been revisions of the history of the US which we in this country grew up studying, and many have been revelations that we'd rather not believe are true. We ought to remember that every country has such a history - and the leaders motivate the people by telling them the stories of how they know we would like to be, not necessarily true though sometimes they are true. And the truth of the stories is always in the best depictions of national character, not in the worst, even though also the latter may be true more often than not.

We would prefer all the good things to be true; in that we are no different from any other place. We should, however, consider that even if they are not they are good stories to tell. They are at least our aspirations. China has aspirations they may not, in the end, accomplish fully. So does Russia. And they are better aspirations than those countries have expressed in the past.

I salute them for that. I hope they accomplish most of what they are setting out to do. We will all be better off as they try. And, what is the Star Trek meme? "Resistance is futile."

[Apologies to Jackrabbit - I miswrote his monicker above.]

Posted by: juliania | Jul 28 2020 16:48 utc | 166

Passer by | Jul 27 2020 22:09 utc | 63
IMHO all writings about what is going to happen in 2030 or any other date beyond next week is hardly worth reading, never mind trying to work out what it means, because the situation today is changing so rapidly, that by the time it is published the data that it was based on has already altered.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 28 2020 16:52 utc | 167

james @ 104, as Heraclitus, Dante, T.S. Eliot, and even Putin have taught us:

The way down is the way up.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 28 2020 17:00 utc | 168

Gruff @ 160

" The only option left to America to delay the BRI for longer would be a kinetic one, and the door is closing on that."

They could decide to join the 21st century and join the BRI.

But that would be a win win thing.

Posted by: arby | Jul 28 2020 17:37 utc | 169

James@104

That is what we get for tying our canoe to the Titanic.

Posted by: arby | Jul 28 2020 17:41 utc | 170

William Gruff @159--

Perhaps two years ago, maybe more, I opined the Outlaw US Empire would be better served by joining the BRI project than trying to oppose it. IMO, the results are in and I was correct in that judgment. Pepe Escobar on his FB says he got the following from an insider, "top level, no intel types, simply business discussion" he had access to:

"A major consideration is whether the coronavirus is a bioweapon. Chinese Intel says that it is and it is synthetic. It does not seem to fade away as influenza each year, which supports the version that it is synthetic."

Unfortunately, that went with what IMO is disinfo about Trump's electoral chances and the way the citizenry feels about the "riots"--disinfo because it's refuted by this recent Gallup Poll:

"Majority of Americans Back Black Lives Matter Protests and Think Demonstrations Will Help Racial Justice: Poll: A new Gallup survey shows that 65% of U.S. adults support the protests." [My Emphasis]

That disinfo harms the credibility of the "synthetic" report.

Today's Global Times Editorial is another great piece of work listing seven points that provide the basis for the "Broad support helps China withstand US shock wave," with these two perhaps the most important:

"Fifth, in the face of the US' frenzied suppression, China has acted calmly. China has only carried out countermeasures. China's countermeasures are reciprocal and do not expand to other areas. On US global suppression, China is its most powerful opponent. The US attacks are exhausting, and China's counterattacks are orderly. China's endurance has shown its advantages.

"Sixth, Washington tries to completely destroy relations with Beijing, which has posed serious risks to US national interests, and also harmed world peace. Washington has lost in terms of morality and justice. This will generally help China accumulate more resources to resist US suppression."

An economic note: You noted the fact that the Outlaw US Empire primarily has a Service Economy, which is precisely the type of economy that will suffer the most from a pandemic that keeps businesses from servicing their customers. Thus, the frantic insanity to reopen the economy well before it was medically responsible, resulting in many thousands of deaths that wouldn't have otherwise occurred, which are directly Trump's responsibility. The calamity engulfing major league baseball would be representative upon the deaths of some of its players to match what's occurring in the overall society. IMO, they should have cancelled the season and remained off the field as positive example; now, they're a negative example.

The Gallup polling has some interesting numbers regarding partisan and age related results. The newest aid legislation proposed by Senate Republicans, the HEALS Act, looks like it's DOA. But the D Party is still beholden to its donors:

"A Democratic National Committee panel on Monday voted down an amendment that would have inserted a plank supporting Medicare for All into the party's 2020 platform, a move progressives decried as out of touch with public opinion and a slap in the face to the millions of people who have lost their health insurance due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

"The DNC Platform Committee rejected the Medicare for All amendment introduced by longtime single-payer advocate Michael Lighty by a vote of 36-125 during a virtual meeting Monday."

Like Trump, the Democrats don't want to do anything to help "provide for the common defence" while improving the quality of our Union--in other words, they're against the rationale promoted within the Constitution's Preamble. The Duopoly's behavior proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the genuine enemy plaguing the US citizenry resides within the nation--it's DOMESTIC--not foreign. Time to take the next logical step forward by turning All Lives Matter into a new political party--The People's Party.

But then aside from the Trolls, I'm preaching to the choir.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 28 2020 17:44 utc | 171

I see the decline every day. I just don't know if it presages an imminent collapse. I accept that 20 years from now will look a lot different than today, not just for the u.s. but the whole world. I'm hoping it's 20 years and not, say, next year--that would require some kind of war, civil or foreign.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 28 2020 17:55 utc | 172

@ 170 arby... i liked how peirre elliot trudeau put it - when you are a mouse walking next to an elephant, you have to think differently... - or something to that effect!

Posted by: james | Jul 28 2020 18:17 utc | 173

@171 karlof1 - preaching to the choir

Keep preaching. It's not all to the choir, and even if it were, remember that movements produce their movers, and revolutions their fighters, and often these are younger people, who are especially the ones who need the intellectual groundwork already done for them to draw on in the moments of struggle.

And the groundwork you put together is very good - concise and tailored in modern words.

It's a good cause, whose ultimate triumph you may never see.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 28 2020 18:24 utc | 174

William Gruff @Jul28 16:19 #160

Thanks for adding that. Your clarification helped me to see some nuances that I otherwise would've missed.

I hoped it helped others too.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 28 2020 18:51 utc | 175

Certainly in the US we have everything we need to reverse our decline, build a better life for everyone living here, and stop trying to "compete" by sabotaging everyone else. by: ptb @ 3 followed by this blog shows, a multi-faceted deterioration of US political morals and legality. Combined with a world wide growing awareness of how deranged American leaders now are. we will see a US regime change faster than a lot here predict. by: Mark2 @ 39
followed by the western manufacturing base was sent to China for its cheap cost of underpaid labor by: O @ 47 followed by O @ 51 who says "capitalism runs on cheap labor thus the multi nationals hopscotch the world looking for it. Everyone once in a while they get busted for running these sweatshops but that is the nature of the beast.. <=yes, but what makes hop scotch possible is copyright patent monopolies, take the monopoly out of the equation and you will have capitalism, and it will be global, but no big capitalist corporations will be found, as the economic environment will be returned to highly competitive, as one competitor rises the other will fall.


jadan @ 54 says " the nation state system is in deep trouble." <==The nation is a system of containment designed to provide for the few, by exploiting and denying the many. I think the bottom is preparing to take the top down world over.


China will simply pack up shop and move on in search of someone to exploit. by: O 56 <===patent and copyright monopolies, make production portable, but if the governed in world "rebel-in-mass and at once", there will be no monopoly, no live leaders, and no secret technology (everything will be free, open source); access to markets will be "at will" by those wanting to produce goods and provide services to satisfy needs. When that happens energy consumption will go down I estimate well over 50%.
Production dependent on a host nation state and distribution of finished goods by transport from one nation state to the other will be exchanged for in-place production based on local need, transport will be reduced to moving raw materials around.

The elephant in the nation state prison is copyright, patent, license, privatization and government contracting monopoly powers made possible government law making power and enforced by the greed in control of government. Governments organised as nation states are designed to be top down, and operate to facilitate the needs of a few who exploit the many.

The bottom up (governed humanity) is demanding that top down governance and monopoly by rule of law be eliminated. Humanity in Sweatshops will be replaced by Robots, skilled workers will develop around the globe as everyone will be producing for themselves, unleashing top down corruption will equalize standard of living globally.


The protests in the Pacific Northwest are not about slavery. They are about the 90% of Americans being treated as disposable trash. by: VietnamVet @ 83 <==yes..

Posted by: snake | Jul 28 2020 18:53 utc | 176

Grieved @174--

Thanks for that nudge of encouragement!! As you see below, my aim is to inform people of the utter futility of the Empire's plans to disrupt China's and its partner's development plans, as it's the Duopoly that's pushing such plans, not just the Rs or Ds.

Buried at RT is this tidbit, "Pakistan starts transit trade via new seaport connected to China’s Belt & Road":

"Transit trade to Afghanistan through Pakistan’s strategic Gwadar seaport began on Sunday. The port is part of the ambitious $61 billion China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) project."

And the CPEC is just one of the many projects within BRI which isn't supposed to genuinely, officially commence until 2025. This website provides good, NGO-like info on the project. The project's size is often not comprehended. Here's the "List of Deliverables of the Second Belt and Road Forum for International Cooperation" from last years Second BRI Forum that gives one an idea. Often compared is the Marshall Plan that rehabilitated some select parts of Western Europe, but it's so much smaller, there's really no comparable comparison. Once it gets going toward the end of the 2020s, there's no way short of nuclear war the Outlaw US Empire's economy will ever come close to matching China's.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 28 2020 19:28 utc | 177

Norwegian @ 133
My apologies for this late reply !
I had just read the nights comments following my comment @ 39 so missed your comment whilst posting the next to your question to me.

‘’You ask what regime I would replace the present U S one with ?’’
Firstly it’s a bit of a false question becouse —- The victem of an un-provoked attack is not in the position beforehand to plan or premeditate. The victem or group of victems for most part just want to stop the attack or prolonged series of attacks (400 years)
I hope you can see this fact.
BUT none the less your fair question I will give my opinion however unlikely to happen. ——-
As stated we didn’t start the fight, our backs against the wall. Like the world war 2 Jews we fight or we will die,
My answer to you is I would prefer to see the US broken up into different states. That solves the problem of ‘no leaders’ each state already have leaders. It would be similar to the end of the USSR end. Easing racial tensions state by state. It would also make the rest off the world safer regarding Nucular / bio war. Present us led regime chainges. Sanctions
Ect.
Ok thats my Dream I’m equally interested to hear your answer to your question ?
Please don’t scoff at my answer! I may have acsess to information you don’t know. Which is the case.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 28 2020 19:35 utc | 178

snake @176--

The nation is a device that was used to defeat Feudalism, and IMO still has a viable function as humanity is in no way prepared to go to a global government--and even if it was it would likely be organized as a Commonwealth of distinct entities differing little from nations. And Feudalism still remains the enemy as its Rentier Class currently controls much of global finance to the detriment of humanity. Once rid of that Class and its global Class War, humanity will have an opportunity to deal with the other crises confronting it. But it must first gain its independence as psychohistorian continually stresses.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 28 2020 19:37 utc | 179

Looks like its back to the landfill to find that hard rive with 20,000 BTC on it from 2011

Posted by: B | Jul 28 2020 19:40 utc | 180

karlof1 @171: "But then aside from the Trolls, I'm preaching to the choir."

Absolutely keep "preaching"! Even if many people already agree with what you write, your posts clarify those issues and oftentimes pull in new information or present those issues from an angle that might not have been considered yet.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 28 2020 19:40 utc | 181

@karlof1

Some of us “joined the choir” only in the last few years. So, I agree with Gruff.

Thank you.

Posted by: oglalla | Jul 28 2020 20:22 utc | 182

Yes, I don't know if b knows how many reads everything gets, but seeing trolls show up is a sign that too many are reading what is said here by posters like Karlofi.

Posted by: arby | Jul 28 2020 20:26 utc | 183

@ Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 28 2020 17:55 utc | 172

No, I think the USA is just declining. I don't see a collapse (nor do I think it ever will).

Capitalism is a multi-layered and anarchic system. It can't collapse on the tip of a pen a la the USSR (which had a totally centralized and planned economy). As I've already mentioned many times here before, my guess is the USA will wither away violently like the Roman Empire, and not in one shot and peacefully like the USSR.

But I will give my bet: the American Empire will be over the moment it loses Brazil (South America). Geopolitically, Brazil is like North Africa was for the Romans: it guaranteed the central piece of the puzzle that made the minimum imperial machine viable (in Rome's case, the Mediterranean; in the USA's case, the entire Western Hemisphere).

Brazil makes a nice geographic symmetry with the USA in the North-South axis (radial axis) of the Western Hemisphere. As Nixon once said "where Brazil goes, so does the rest of Latin America). And this is true: losing Brazil to a communist revolution would immediately end any American pretension of being an Empire, as its minimum requirement in the present times is dominating the West. If it comes to a point the USA can't even held Brazil, that would automatically mean we would be at a historical point where it certainly wouldn't be holding the European Peninsula, Africa and maybe even Australia. I think this moment may come in some 150-250 years.

The USA would then practically only dominate North American and maybe Central America. It would be a regional kingdom at best. Maybe, with a strong emphasis on its Navy, it could still dominate Australia and survive as some kind of bastardized reincarnation of ancient Carthage (thalassocracy), but that's it.

That is my educated bet for the long-term future.

Posted by: vk | Jul 28 2020 20:26 utc | 184

Question how many of the American public would be prepared to give up it’s superpower status for -
A better personal standard of life, a safer less money led life. As an example free health care. Affordable housing.
I would love to see that question put to a fair poll. And read the percentages.

Posted by: Rickstrees@icloud.co | Jul 28 2020 20:44 utc | 185

Mark2 | Jul 28 2020 19:35 utc | 178


My answer to you is I would prefer to see the US broken up into different states. That solves the problem of ‘no leaders’ each state already have leaders. It would be similar to the end of the USSR end. Easing racial tensions state by state. It would also make the rest off the world safer regarding Nucular / bio war. Present us led regime chainges. Sanctions
Ect.
Ok thats my Dream I’m equally interested to hear your answer to your question ?

Thank you for responding. I was hoping for a prediction, not really a preference. But I realise it is extremely difficult to predict what is going to happen. It certainly looks like the US experiencing a USSR-like breakup is a possibility, even if it is still a remote possibility at this point. Looking at the US from outside I see a totally deranged leadership with no hope of improvement in the coming election. Panic has set in among the 'leaders' in the US and I fear something even more stupid than the covid attack. It is very difficult to see how the present situation can be normalised without some form of major disruption.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 28 2020 20:45 utc | 186

Norwegian @ 186
Agreed we both view this problem from afar.
But ok in answer to ——— what will be the outcome to America’s present situation.
I think the internal unrest will get much much worse. Very quickly.
The problem is the politians beleave there own lies. They hide the reality from the public also.
The truth is coming down the line like an express train.
What you see in a few city’s will be in every town and city.
It won’t be set demonstrations becouse of the fed military grunts, this wil go underground flash mobs ect.
I stated on an earlier thread — Trump has two choises escalate or de-escalate he will choose the wrong one.
Don’t forget who is the perpetrator and who is the victem !

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 28 2020 21:08 utc | 187

james @93 " dh... you clearly have too much time on your hands... find a hobby, lol... you're usually good at humour."

Just noticed that comment and your critique of my posting style. Yes I was in a foul mood yesterday but I think what happened is you weren't on troll duty at the time so I stepped in.

Anyway I have a joke for you (poor taste alert)

Q. Why do Chinese workers commit suicide?

A. Because they aren't allowed to work overtime.

I'm not sure O was a genuine troll BTW. It's just that he doesn't know much about China.

Posted by: dh | Jul 28 2020 21:52 utc | 188

@William Gruff 181 to @karlof1 171
I second that as well!

Posted by: ptb | Jul 28 2020 22:04 utc | 189

@vk 184
... I think this moment may come in some 150-250 years

Don't be so pessimistic!

Posted by: ptb | Jul 28 2020 22:09 utc | 190

A note about the Duopoly. Please take a look at these three items from a website supposedly biased toward Progressive Politics. Ds reject R's plan to "unleash widespread suffering". "Voters will know who to blame". And Majority support BLM. Yes, I know two revolve around polling data, but look at which states were polled at the 2nd link; those are considered Red states and they want what the GOP rejects. However, when reading the first link you'll see that the Ds are in league with the Rs but don't want anyone to know. It's the report here about the vast majority of D Senators who voted with Rs to give the Duopoly what it wants--no decrease in "defense" spending--that gives the game away. That can be combined with the other item I linked to earlier about the DNC refusing to include Medicare For All in its election platform in the middle of the Pandemic, which again serves their Donor Masters.

Longtime barflies likely don't need any such reminder; but with the Red state polling info to include, it was too good an educational moment. Within the D Party, there're some genuine Progressive Friends of the People who would be within a People's Party if one existed. Unfortunately as the above shows, the Duopoly is the majority except in exceptional times for exceptional reasons. A lot of what Trump's trying/doing and is being opposed was done by Obama without question--Not jailing the Fraudulent Bankers without any D Party protest is the key fact. However, I see a silver lining in those polls and articles. The lack of distractions and the Pandemic's impact has honed the citizenry's political awareness to a degree not seen since 2002-3, and a Movement has sprouted taking the place of the semi-artificial one abandoned by Bernie Sanders as the third link of the three indicates. Yes, it's imperfect as was Sanders; but IMO, it's more genuine as it aims at supporting people, not a political candidate.

The Outlaw US Empire's service economy is too closely tied to the supply chains that stem from China to have any sort of a Trade or Cold War that doesn't do massive damage to itself as we're witnessing. It was asked upthread if the US citizenry would trade its no-longer existing Superpower status for decent living standards. I'd direct that commenter to the Great Depression and FDR's One Third of a Nation Speech in 1937--the goal then was to get all Americans fed, clothed and housed, the basic aspects of personal and family security all people fear when FDR said all we have to fear is fear itself in 1933. Those are still the fundamentals; it's also the rationale for the federal government as put forth in the Constitution's Preamble. There're only two forces keeping the American people from attaining freedom from the above fundamental fear and having lifelong security: The Duopoly and its Donor Class, the Rentier Class of Feudalistic Parasites that are the enemy of virtually all humanity.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 28 2020 22:30 utc | 191

@William Gruff | Jul 28 2020 12:40 utc | 150

claiming "Inequality is just as bad in China as it is in the United States!". ... simply wrong ... (Gini index in USA = 41.4 and Gini index in China = 38.5)

China's Gini coefficient, as reported by the IMF and other organizations, may simply be wrong. In China, the state-owned enterprises (SOE) are a big percentage of the country's GDP. Gini measures the concentration of ownership -- but who owns an SOE? As no single oligarch is in control of any of these organizations, I suspect the IMF simply throws out the SOEs, and therefore China's Gini is inflated -- it's more Western propaganda.

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 28 2020 22:37 utc | 192

@ Posted by: Cyril | Jul 28 2020 22:37 utc | 192

Yes, you're correct. The GINI coefficient is flawed by design, and is just a very rough approximation of real inequality (which is wealth inequality, not income inequality).

And the narrative that states China is an exporter nation is also incorrect: if you take into account everything the Chinese people gets back from the State make it also a neutral country (i.e. its exports barely surpass its domestic consumption).

Posted by: vk | Jul 28 2020 22:43 utc | 193

The decline in US and Western Europe was planned over 50 years ago, and has been ongoing although masked by statistical manipulations that so easily fool the masses

Here is the history from the US side

The 4th Industrial Revolution was planned following the 1966 Report from Iron Mountain which studied various options for a future society. In 1968 future TLC Founder (Brzezinski) wrote his book on the coming Technocratic (Fascist) Era. Not the choice I would have made. The Fascists were at the time hiding behind the cloak of anti-communism that they stirred up with Cold War hype (another fraud designed to induce fear). The coup d’etat had already begun with the assassinations of JFK and RFK Jr. Operation Mockingbird ensured the people would remain clueless. The biggest lie was that Fascism was defeated. They just went underground (Operation Paperclip , Truman , Dulles, and McCloy accomplished that) and they renamed their ideologies (neoliberalism for economy, genetics and population planning for eugenics).

In 1973 David Rockefeller along with guys like Brzezinski, Volcker, Kissinger ,Bush, Carter, Greenspan set up the Trilateral Commission and they developed the plan for Project Democracy in 1975 . This was a plan that would install a Technocratic Fascist World Order after the controlled disintegration of society and the economy over several decades

The details outlining the steps they took are too many to state here but each of those actors mentioned above, including future TLC members like Clinton, Epstein, Eric Schmidt and Larry Fink to name a few played important roles , not to mention neocons under “POPPY” Bush that played a role in restructuring government in the mid 70’s , guys like Cheney and Rumsfeld who would go on to bigger things with the PNAC and 2001.

Trumps role is to bring about the controlled demolition of whats left of a society that has a badly disintegrated and weakened foundation after 40 years of being attacked from within. Having great experience in bankrupting companies and cheating investors/partners and being an actor to boot he was perfect. Its all coming down and what goes up in its place will be a dystopia blending 1984 with the Brave New World. The Fourth Reich. Wearing Face Diapers and taking a knee might spare you for awhile. But if Deagel. Com population estimates for 2025 are right, 70% will be gone and whats left will be robotized serfs.

Posted by: Kay Fabe | Jul 28 2020 23:58 utc | 194

karlof1 @Jul28 22:30 #191

... the Ds are in league with the Rs but don't want anyone to know.

Yup. But hyper-partisanship has most people fooled.

=
... it was too good an educational moment.

You do a lot of educating. Kudos for that.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 29 2020 0:31 utc | 195

Kay Fabe @Jul28 23:58 #194

Here is the history from the US side

Just scratches the surface but anyone reading your quick summary should get the picture.

I've written at moa that the ideologies that the Western elite subscribe to reveal their thinking and objectives for all to see. Neoliberalism: another form of corporate-state fascism; neoconservativism: another form of aristocracy; zionism: another form of colonialism. Together, these ideologies form and further a supremacist mindset among our "elites".

=
Trumps role is to bring about the controlled demolition of whats left of a society that has a badly disintegrated and weakened foundation ...

I think this needs to be developed more. I think it's clear to many knowledgeable observers but what you mean by "society" should be fleshed out for others.

=
The Fourth Reich

Do you think this is a more accurate moniker than "Anglo-Zionist Empire"?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 29 2020 1:17 utc | 196

karlof1 #86

IMO, taking a good look at Brazil's situation provides close to a mirror image for those within the Outlaw US Empire having trouble seeing clearly. Too often we forget to look South at the great sewer and its misery US Imperialism's created. It may be getting defeated in Eurasia, but it's winning in Latin America.

That sewer of misery was running full flush during Susan Rice's rise through the ranks.

National Security Adviser to Obummer 2013 - 2017,
US Ambassador to the UN 2009 - 2013
Do read the rest:

And well beyond South America.

Now she is close to seizing the prize of VP to Biden. She is a iron war horse of formidable capacity and mendacity given her past roles. She has few redeeming features. She will conform exactly to the dictats of the permanent state and she will easily step right over Joe Biden as he either falls or is taken down at the most opportune time.

What drole sense of humour thought of this - the hapless Trump squeezed between two black American presidents. Seems like something the Clintons dreamed up.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 29 2020 2:13 utc | 197

David Dayen’s New Book Exposes the Dirty Hands of Wall Street Driving Monopoly Power in U.S. https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/07/david-dayens-new-book-exposes-the-dirty-hands-of-wall-street-driving-monopoly-power-in-u-s/

New York Times Rewrites the Timeline of the Fed’s Wall Street Bailouts, Giving Banks a Free Pass
https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/07/new-york-times-rewrites-the-timeline-of-the-feds-wall-street-bailouts-giving-banks-a-free-pass/

Posted by: Antonym | Jul 29 2020 5:07 utc | 198

@ 188 dh.. i gave over troll duties to milomilo and anyone else who is into it... it is not worth it... i just ignore posters, especially ones who post too much... we all have to figure out what works for us.. you're gonna have to up your humour game after that last one!!

Posted by: james | Jul 29 2020 5:14 utc | 199

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 28 2020 22:30 utc | 191

"It was asked upthread if the US citizenry would trade its no-longer existing Superpower status for decent living standards.... There're only two forces keeping the American people from attaining freedom from the above fundamental fear and having lifelong security: The Duopoly and its Donor Class, the Rentier Class of Feudalistic Parasites that are the enemy of virtually all humanity."

The US citizenry will choose decent living standards in a heartbeat, but the present arrangement for eating off the labour of deplorables is just too profitable for the Duopoly & Donor Class to be permitted to change for a couple decades more.

Perhaps they will move on when there is no more meat on the American corpse, or when they have built up a sufficiently large group of useful idiots in China to begin eating off the backs of deplorables with Chinese characteristics.

Anything is possible, with the right amount of moolah, even overcoming Confucian morals. Joshua Wong comes to mind, who not only does idiotic, but actually looks idiotic.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Jul 29 2020 5:39 utc | 200

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