Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 03, 2020

The U.S. Economy Is Down By 50% - Where Are the Job Programs It Needs?

The U.S. has a service economy. Some 70% of its gross domestic product is generated by personal consumption. The emergency measures taken to slow down the covid-19 pandemic decreased consumption by a huge margin. The GDPNow model by the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta shows the slump:

The growth rate of real gross domestic product (GDP) is a key indicator of economic activity, but the official estimate is released with a delay. Our GDPNow forecasting model provides a "nowcast" of the official estimate prior to its release by estimating GDP growth using a methodology similar to the one used by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis.
Latest estimate: -52.8 percent — June 1, 2020

The GDPNow model estimate for real GDP growth (seasonally adjusted annual rate) in the second quarter of 2020 is -52.8 percent on June 1, down from -51.2 percent on May 29.

Source: GDPnow via The Big Picture - bigger

The GDPnow model gives a snapshot of GDP on any given day. It is not the GDP for the year, which will be down much less, but just a moment in time.

With the lockdowns loosening the GDP will certainly increase again. But a haircut missed due to the lockdown will not result in a desire to get two haircuts. The meals not eaten in a restaurant during the last two month will not be made up by additional meals eaten after the reopening. The losses are for real.

With the end of the lockdown half of the 40 million currently unemployed will likely soon be back to work. The jobs of the other 20 million will not come back for a long time. The travel and hospitality sectors will be most effected. People who do not make money can not spend any.

The unemployed and the economy will not be impressed by Trump's current fake 'law and order' show or by his pandering to Evangelicals.

If Trump is as smart as he claims to be he will ask Congress for a huge amount of money to be spent on infrastructure programs over the next three years. That money should be shared for projects on the national, state and local level. There are plenty of bridges, roads and rails that need repairs or replacements.

But Trump isn't as smart as he claims and the people around him, as well as Trump himself, are from the FIRE economy - the Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate sectors. Such people do not value the real economy where real stuff is made and used.

The stock market, on which Trump is fixated, has long ceased to be a reflection of the real economy. Propping it up again and again, as the Fed and the Treasury do, may well enrich Trump's friends, but it does nothing for the voters he needs to get reelected.

Does he not understand that?

And why, by the way, ain't the Democrats out in front demanding that more be done to create new jobs? They seem to have totally vanished from the scene.

Posted by b on June 3, 2020 at 17:35 UTC | Permalink

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you are clever , injecting your lies in passive aggresive manner.

been reading your post and i tag you and your cubicle mate @gerhart as trolls assigned here in MoA

sadly only few posters here i read with confidence they are not paid astroturfer , opiniated yes but not trolls.. James , Karlof , Tungsten yes i read their posts , Richard Steven Hack on my grey area list along with JackRabbit who troll hard to inject his “erdogan orchestrated his own coup” nonsense.. peterAU also on grey area because i saw his posts in UNZ and it is so blatantly neocon-ish ..

long term lurker and as regular here i can see the hasbara still trying to “poison the well” my injecting nonsense in comment section and playing tag team sock puppetry using one account to post nonsense and other account to pretend agreement on it..

i believe B already on these hasbaras and know how to handle it.. Thats why they cannot coopt MoA even when they listed MoA as target in 2005 along with Zerohedge.. Zerohedge is gone , coopted into neocon site with comment section so racist and disgusting it make old regular commenters ran away..

Posted by: millmilo | Jun 4 2020 6:33 utc | 101

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 4 2020 6:31 utc | 99 Possibly, USAians, instead of looting businesses, they should start occupying them in the way Argentinians did in 2001

Is Argentina a socialist economy today? Did the workers *keep* control of what they seized? I don't know, I don't follow South American politics much.

Once again, *who* is going to *convince* any significant proportion of 300 million Americans - who have been raised in *this* society, not Argentina, or 1800's France or even 1968 France - that socialism - hitherto associated with Soviet Russia (however correctly or not) - is the way to go?

You're missing my point. Without *some* way of altering the way Americans see the world, what they "might" do is completely irrelevant. The question is what are they *likely* to do - and I submit that reinventing the entire social and economic structure and social attitudes of this country is not in the cards, certainly not before the, as we preppers say, SHTF results from the current situation. As others have suggested, the most likely outcome is extreme fascism - which is certainly where a significant percentage of the population seem to be perfectly willing to go.

Bottom line: Stop waiting for "the revolution" and make your own. And that's not a question of "divide and conquer" - before someone brings that trope up. It's a question of if you can't make your own, how do you expect everyone else in the country to make one in unison?

Posted by: millmilo | Jun 4 2020 6:33 utc | 100

I'm not being paid by anyone - not on my living standard. As far as "long-time", you can search for my name on this site and find posts from me from back in 2015 and 2016 (mostly on Iran.) Prior to the virus, I only posted here off and on depending on foreign policy issues, mostly Iran (as Sakineh likes to chide me about.) In those posts, I generally agree with b on how rotten US policy is on that issue. I previously posted extensively on the Leveretts' goingtotehran Web site, and I have frequently posted at As I pointed out before, you can find my posts all over the place with a Google search. So judge for yourself whether I am an "astroturfer" - as opposed to certain others here, who, as I've pointed out, don't exist anywhere but here - at least under the pseudonyms they use here - I don't use pseudonyms *anywhere*.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 4 2020 6:57 utc | 102

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 4 2020 6:57 utc | 101
"You're missing my point. Without *some* way of altering the way Americans see the world, what they "might" do is completely irrelevant"

That is what I am suggesting. USAians who do see a "way of altering the way Americans see the world" need to act in some way to try to redirect the narrative to a political economic view. This may be through an Argentinian style worker occupation of busineses or some other means. Just doing the same old, same old (protests coopted) is not going to get it done. It simply entrenches the oligarchs in their looting positions.

As for Argentina, Nestor Kirchner who eventually took power, let the IMF back in. Rinse, repeat. I gather some of the worker cooperatives still exist, but I haven't followed things much for 10 years, but with Macri and austerity reintroduced, ala Menem in the 90s, I cannot imagine things have ultimately improved.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 4 2020 7:38 utc | 103

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 4 2020 6:57 utc | 101

The docuentary film that introduced me to the Argentinian topic was "The Take" by Naomi Klein. It seems to have a web site still:

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 4 2020 7:51 utc | 104

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 4 2020 7:38 utc | 103

Well, the question then is: who's going to occupy what? If you could get a union to decide to occupy some factories, like France 1968, then perhaps you could influence the discussion. But the problem there is has to be done at a sufficient scale to prevent - or at least manage - the inevitable police response (and the public perception of by whom and why the occupation is being done.) And then you're back to who has the influence? If one or more of the national or even state union organizations could get it together to organize something like that, maybe it would work. But just having a handful of workers occupy a factory probably won't work.

Wikipedia describes the May, 1968, French uprising as follows:

The unrest began with a series of student occupation protests against capitalism, consumerism, American imperialism and traditional institutions. Heavy police repression of the protesters led France's trade union confederations to call for sympathy strikes, which spread far more quickly than expected to involve 11 million workers, more than 22% of the total population of France at the time.[1] The movement was characterized by spontaneous and decentralized wildcat disposition; this created a contrast and at times even conflict internally amongst the trade unions and the parties of the left.[1] It was the largest general strike ever attempted in France, and the first nationwide wildcat general strike.[1]

The student occupations and general strikes initiated across France were met with forceful confrontation by university administrators and police. The de Gaulle administration's attempts to quell those strikes by police action only inflamed the situation further, leading to street battles with the police in the Latin Quarter, Paris.

However, by late May, the flow of events changed. The Grenelle accords concluded on 27 May, between the government, trade unions and employers, won significant wage gains for workers. A counter-demonstration organised by the Gaullist party on 29 May in central Paris gave De Gaulle the confidence to dissolve the National Assembly and call for parliamentary elections for 23 June 1968. Violence evaporated almost as quickly as it arose. Workers went back to their jobs, and when the elections were held in June, the Gaullists emerged stronger than before.

So the key seems to be the ability to organize wildcat strikes quickly, and enabling them to spread quickly across industries. And then somehow the issue of union leaders having their own agendas has to be dealt with. And again, the workers have to have some clear idea of what is in their best interests, rather than being bought off by slightly better working conditions and a slightly higher wage. I submit that French workers in 1968 had a better historical comprehension of previous worker uprisings than American workers do these days. I could be wrong about that, but I suspect not.

Worth reading how this uprising developed in France: Look at the numbers involved - shortly after this started, a *million people* marched. A strike produced 200,000 in one march. Also, look at the degree of violence the protesters were willing to engage in - pitched battles with the cops, not just looting. Not sure the US can produce that sort of response.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 4 2020 8:04 utc | 105

Ugh, screwed up my BLOCKQUOTE...again...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 4 2020 8:05 utc | 106

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 4 2020 8:04 utc | 105

I do not disagree. In the 30s in the US and Canada similar union and worker actions did occur as well. They were often brutally put down, but succeeded in many ways as well. The point I am making is that you do have to start somewhere, and that somehwere could simply be the workers taking over their unions from their ineffective (shall we say corrupt)leaders. Or handfuls of workers in various industries in towns with backing from their communities. This may not last, but it may provide the spark for redirecting the narrative.

As the unemployment situation gets worse, since the oligarchy seems to intend it does, then things of this nature become thinkable, if the thought is out there. So put the though out there.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 4 2020 8:35 utc | 107

millmilo #101

As someone who is somewhat naïve when it comes to knowing who can trusted or not trusted on internet forums I had to look up the definition of astroturfing:

Astroturfing is the attempt to create an impression of widespread grassroots support for a policy, individual, or product, where little such support exists. Multiple online identities and fake pressure groups are used to mislead the public into believing that the position of the astroturfer is the commonly held view.

I do understand that it's common for people to hide their real name/identity online to protect their privacy. But I wonder if an "astroturfer" can be even more duplicitous by assuming they are someone else who is trusted. Is that possible, and if is, how can they be uncovered?

Posted by: krypton | Jun 4 2020 9:08 utc | 108

Nine minute tribute to George Floyd on Burnside Bridge, Portland Oregon.

Posted by: krypton | Jun 4 2020 9:21 utc | 109

Just thinking about general strikes thanks to Richard's post.

The covid "lockdowns" were in a way reminiscent of a general strike shutting down a city. Except of course, it was not the workers shutting down the city but the government. A top down general strike if you will, where people were kept in their homes rather than allowed on the streets. But why not use it as a model for a bottom up general strike when necessary. We know it can be applied. It has been. Only this time people can be out in the streets, not locked down in their homes.

In fact, it could be applied in such a way that the only ones that might suffer much are the corporatists, losing profits. The people would have to organize their own self help committees (a model of those appeared in Turkey during Covid, encouraged by the gov't): essential services including fire fighters, unarmed security services organized by their communities, health services and food producers through local markets could be exempt from the general strike depending on the local situation.

One might even set up large cafeterias in schools and large spaces, possibly open in the street, if the weather permits, for meals at a low cost with volunteers from restaurants acting as staff. The whole process could be organized peaceably with the unarmed security, possibly including local police volunteers, watching for provacateurs and mischief makers. Large sections of the city could even ban private automobiles, if desirable.

With some tweeking, the covid "lockdown" model might be an interesting bottom up general strike model.

This has been done before.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 4 2020 9:47 utc | 110

Richard Steven Hack #105

The consideration of strike action today are far more limited than in the late 60's as a vast range of manufacturing is entirely offshore and the vast majority of manufacture owners are global in vision. They have hedged their risk and neutered the nation state union in every locality.

There are the service industries that can act strategically via their unions but the USA has so effectively co-opted or crippled so many unions and union bosses that they can easily be snuffed AFAIK.

The gilet jaunes adopted a smarter path to circumvent the French manifestation of union snuffing and untrustworthy opposition parties and seem to be successful.

That is why I was advocating white helmets and yellow vests in the USA as part of the current anti-violence/ anti state protests in the USA.

1/ such a method acts outside the understanding the police/politicians have of the 'real paradigm' and
2/ it internationalises the struggle and immediately expresses solidarity with those great people in France, and
3/ the white helmets are the darlings of Hollywood and have been created as fake heroes in many USAian eyes, are seen to be on the side of 'saving civilians' etc., and a little parody goes a long way.

The white helmets should have a peace logo on them of course ;)

There is a problem that the democrazi machine will swoop in and try to coopt the current peaceful protest team and 'harvest their votes' but I suspect that would be a mighty fail as they possess so much bloody linen.

Mad dog Matis slamming of Trump in AXIOS was a most interesting twist in terms of positioning the US Army in a conflicted light.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 4 2020 9:59 utc | 111

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 4 2020 9:59 utc | 111

That is kind of what I was suggesting with Covid lockdown meme: coopting the propaganda memes of the state and turning them against them.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 4 2020 10:21 utc | 112

Richard Steven Hack #105

Re France in the '60's: Look at the numbers involved - shortly after this started, a *million people* marched. A strike produced 200,000 in one march. Also, look at the degree of violence the protesters were willing to engage in - pitched battles with the cops, not just looting. Not sure the US can produce that sort of response.

I thought it best to tackle this separately to the previous comment. The history of USA state and corporate violence against the union is simply appalling and right now likely to be much more vicious and sustained. The permanent state oligarchs don't get 6 trillion in six months and smile sweetly and go away quietly. They could of course. But they want it all and they want it their way and they will kill to ensure that no smart arse tries to take the lolly back.

Sure the French penchant for a punch up with the police is deeply ingrained, but then they had the vichy fascist enforcers in their memory or their parents memory. The French were also occupied and humiliated by the Nazi gang of nations who plundered the place shitless. Not so USA. And so a sustained violent USA confrontation with the state enforcement thugs and saboteurs is less likely imo.

There are better ways right now to tackle the state Minotaur and that involves sustained struggle as it may not fall in this election round. It could with a candidate of sharp rhetoric and credible background and a public works platform to rebuild America. But it may take a four year cycle unfortunately and that gives the permanent state more time to sabotage. Time will tell.

I really do not see vigorous violent confrontation achieving anything other than more body bags than Covid-19. The USA state is vicious.

It would be good if the backers of Jesse Ventura can come up with a system to free him to run. And I have no doubt there are many more of his ilk who could if given the opportunity and backing. I know the election system in USA is crackpot etc but third party is the only way imo.

as an aside I have been thinking of Proudhon again:

“To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 4 2020 10:22 utc | 113

Blue Dotterel #112

That is kind of what I was suggesting with Covid lockdown meme: coopting the propaganda memes of the state and turning them against them.

Thank you. And can I add to that we need a vaccine to sterilise every single one of the permanent state players.

It is time for me to read Saul Alinsky and his Rules for Radicals again.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 4 2020 10:30 utc | 114

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 4 2020 9:59 utc | 111 and 113

I'm inclined to agree with your points.

Based on the experience of third parties over the last forty or fifty years, I don't see much likelihood that one is going to succeed. The state has too many ways to keep them marginalized - not least of which are the election laws, the voting districts and the subservience of the mainstream media. The only third party candidates who got any traction at all were Ross Perot (not someone we'd want), Ralph Nader and Jill Stein.

That idea again devolves to who is likely to be capable of correct rhetoric and a credible background - and more importantly capable of outwitting the other parties, the mainstream media, and actually managing to build up a big enough party to get on the ballots in enough states with enough actual voter support. I don't think any of the existing members of Congress are capable - and I don't know who outside of Congress could do it.

Stated that way, the odds are not good.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 4 2020 10:38 utc | 115

Richard Steven Hack #115

Stated that way, the odds are not good.

Agreed, but then when you least expect it providence opens a path. The interesting energy that has been loosed by Sanders and his two forays is the creation of an expectation for change, an expectation that there is a chance to leap over the mundane captivity of two party thievery and arrive in a fresh plane. Sanders is way to discredited to ever take that back.

This is the energy that looses a champion, that clears the obstacles, that unravels the bindings. It is loose in the USA right now. That is why I said many threads ago that the USA is in a pre revolutionary condition. I sense it more than usual and I can only trust that it is much more than my mere enthusiasm. I see it based in the psyche of the human and their remarkable capacity for collective action. The power of language and the power to dream.

Viva la revolution. We never thought Fidel and Che would succeed and look at that country and its remarkable freedom from US slavery. Likewise Ho Chi Minh and General Giap.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 4 2020 11:13 utc | 116

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 4 2020 11:13 utc | 116

Yes, but there are little things that need be done in local communities. I gather in the fall sometime in the US, Landlords will be able to demand back rent (correct me if t wrong). This will make it possible for landlords to evict people who cannot pay.

Of course, there are different types of landlords: individuals who rent out one to a few flats to supplement their retirement income and large corporations who own buildings of flats. Still the communities ought to organize to mediate between landlords and tennants (in a tennant association maybe) and work to prevent evictions even if they must hold vigils in numbers outside in the streets.

People must realize that the lockdown and consequent unemployment was brought about by government actions, that large businesses have been financially supported, but very few smaller to medium sized businesses. People need to organize to help themselves and their neighbors, where their governments are unwilling to.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 4 2020 11:35 utc | 117

Trump should know or has been told that he doesn't need any of these poor folks' votes so why bother to please them? Their votes are irrelevant. His real supporters in Wall St and the MIC will install him AGAIN. Who needs real elections in a fascist dictatorship? Wake up, noisy protesters, and pipe down.

Posted by: Jack_Garbo | Jun 4 2020 11:44 utc | 118

For those trying now to revive dying capitalism by bringing in go to know what stories written in the Dead Sea Scrolls, so as to sneak us in a new "king" to reign over the masses, some clarifying points by people erased for one reason by the system:

"No matter what color you are, there are only two classes: exploited and exploitative ... oppressed and oppressive" (...) "We do not want black capitalism, we fight for socialism" (Fred Hampton, leader of the Black Panthers, killed in 1969). #Socialism

People who are looking for a king, are people who need someone to reign over an already proved failed system who allows them keep planting flowers or sailing while millions remain in queues to grab a package from the food banks....or are killed in cold blood in the streets for nothing...Beware...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 4 2020 11:44 utc | 119

Lex Wexner, the bisexual Jewish billionaire, still walks free to enjoy his billions and to continue to circulate his pedophile bible to his fellow pedophilic brethren in the the form of the Victoria's Secret catalogue where the models are chosen to look like, if not in fact, underage adolescent girls, just Epstein's type, or Epstein's type of female considering Jeffrey swung both ways or any way he was ordered to swing by his Mossad managers.

I posted a pic of Wexner's mansion near Columbus, Ohio. It's one of many White Houses and yet it still stands as a shining example to all that most if not all cannot see the forest for the trees. Until the wealthy elite are chased from the country in fear for their lives and their castles, the REAL White Houses, burned to the ground, nothing can and will ever change.

The "protests" are over. The simpletons have been mollified. The Dem party has arrested the other officers and Chauvin's charge has been moved to second degree murder. The "protesters" believe they have won. They haven't. In fact, they are incapable of even understanding what the word mollify even means. Just like Rodney King, what was just mostly peaceful "protests" will resolutely become riots when the officers are not convicted in this case. Ellison knows this. He knows the law as written cannot bring a conviction for these cops because the law as written is part of the systemical roots of this issue and so many issues. The law as it is written is what stands between me and my hands around this guy's neck and all of his ilk. Because the laws as they are written prevent true justice and can and does incarcerate anyone who seeks to administer it. You're thrown in the slammer where the orcs of the state are required, and do so happily and dutifully, to rape you as a final insult and as a shining example of what Americas truly stands for and what America really truly is — a rapist.

Stephen Feinberg, the Private Military Contractor Who Has Trump’s Ear

Feinberg is lean, with a runner’s physique and a mild New York accent. His manner is equanimous, and his focus on the task at hand is intense. All who have worked with him speak of his penetrating analytic intelligence, his surpassing desire for privacy, and his steady hand as an investor. To the financial press, he is known as the C.E.O. of Cerberus Capital Management, one of the country’s largest investment firms, with business lines in private equity, distressed debt, hedge funds, and real estate. His holdings have included the once struggling G.M. automotive-financing division, the controversial defense contractor DynCorp, and the Bushmaster assault-rifle brand. For Feinberg, the Trump campaign was a classic investment target: compromised, flailing, politically toxic—but ultimately successful.

This February, it was reported that Feinberg was being considered for a post in the Trump Administration, overseeing a shakeup of the United States intelligence community. Career spies were alarmed at the suggestion; Feinberg has no intelligence experience, and his history at Cerberus suggested the likelihood of a radical restructuring, starting with management. This skepticism of his suitability for the role was shared by a former Cerberus insider with whom I spoke. “He’s a phenomenal manager of an investment fund, but his brilliance is in his trading,” he said. “I don’t think he’d succeed in the bureaucratic environment of Washington.” (Through a spokesperson, Feinberg declined to comment.)

Posted by: | Jun 4 2020 11:46 utc | 120

@Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 4 2020 11:13 utc | 116

And it is not only you who feel it, even Obama realizes...BTW, I got surprised of so few books in the shelves of Obama´s study/living room, whatever....Somehow a proof that these people lack ideology and have not to think much what to say or what to do, but that they followed all a script written anywhere in the heights during their presidencies, as the current one does...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 4 2020 11:51 utc | 121

Scanning the news this morning saw three references to “animals in the streets”.

New meme. Never an accident. Tell us how you really feel.

We have always been nothing but animals to our masters.

Next step is certainly”vermin”, though as we are all thoroughly dumbed down that might be difficult vocabulary.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 4 2020 12:02 utc | 122

@Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 4 2020 11:13 utc | 116

... when you least expect it providence opens a path.

Viva la revolution. We never thought Fidel and Che would succeed....

You know, I somehow believe in karma, so as that all the evil you do in this Earth then turns against you...

It would not be good, that, as one classist commenter reminded him, after all the efforts people like Pat Lang did throught their long comfortable lives so as to avoid that "certain people could arrive anytime in power" so as to make of the US the fascist dictatorship we are witnessing now, and for that goal their hands did not shake in erasing so many young people from the Earth, could witness, before they die, the advent of a socialist USA?

That would be Ché coming back with a vengeance...but, as always happened with him, in such a form that this benefit the majority....

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 4 2020 12:04 utc | 123

"And why, by the way, ain't the Democrats out in front demanding that more be done to create new jobs?"

Don't say ain't or your mother will faint.
Your father will fall in a bucket of paint.
Your sister will cry. Your brother will die.
Your dog will call the FBI.

Posted by: David Park | Jun 3 2020 17:50 utc | 1

It begins by saying "ain't", a long and slippery slope. Next thing you know you're saying "fuck" in polite company to signal your street creds. Your subject/verb agreement becomes unintelligible and the whole grammatical structure of your discourse collapses. You join Antifa, espouse anarchy and become a looter.

Posted by: jadan | Jun 4 2020 12:25 utc | 124

Some inspiring in all its forms, paints, music, poetry, graphic design, must be present in any revolution, that was well understood by the funding fathers of the USSR, and why they made art available for all, so as that masses would be able to elevate their divine spirits too and dream....

Commission October @CommissionOctober "The youth march towards the future", Josep Renau, 1974. #Socialism #Communists

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 4 2020 12:37 utc | 125

Robert Johnson, founder of Black Entertainment Television, told CNBC on Monday the U.S. government should provide $14 trillion of reparations for slavery to help reduce racial inequality.

The wealth divide and police brutality against blacks are at the heart of protests that have erupted across the nation following last week’s killing of George Floyd during an arrest in Minneapolis.

“Now is the time to go big” to keep America from dividing into two separate and unequal societies, Johnson said on “Squawk Box.”

“Wealth transfer is what’s needed,” he argued. “Think about this. Since 200-plus-years or so of slavery, labor taken with no compensation, is a wealth transfer. Denial of access to education, which is a primary driver of accumulation of income and wealth, is a wealth transfer.”

Calling reparations the “affirmative action program of all time,” Johnson said they would send the signal that white Americans acknowledge “damages that are owed” for the unequal playing field created by slavery and the decades since with a “wealth transfer to white Americans away from African Americans.”

Posted by: Mao | Jun 4 2020 12:41 utc | 126

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 4 2020 12:04 utc | 123

Schmatz expect the unexpected. The Soviet Union suddenly collapse and no one expected it. I love to see this empire collapse too just like the Soviet Union.

"You know, I somehow believe in karma, so as that all the evil you do in this Earth then turns against you...

Wishful thinking and it's not gonna to happen. If you look at our present and last few presidents... Clinton, Bush and Obama they're piece of shits. I really mean it.. And they're enjoying their retirements and feeling good about it.. All has something in common beside being liars and evils they love to killed - proud and love it. Think how many innocent people they killed in Palestine, Iraqi, Afghan, Syria, Haiti and more...

Every time I hear: Protecting your Freedom of speech, democracy, universal suffrage it makes me puke! It's happening now in HK, Cuba, Venezuela, Afghan, Somalia and the streets in America...

I know, I know I should not be that hard at these god loving Americans and they;re doing their best, they're human... blah, blah, blah Shit period!

Posted by: JC | Jun 4 2020 12:44 utc | 127

@Trent 35 : In the immortal words of Monty Python: That is not funny!

Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 4 2020 12:58 utc | 128

That's why you enforce a proper lockdown:

China leads world economic recovery: Analysts are surprised that a Caixin survey of service industries shows clear signs of expansion

David P. Goldman is a big time liberal and a declared nationalist (pro-USA). And even he admits China is recovering fast, towards a quick V-shaped recovery.

A lesson for the American petite-bourgeoisie: you're not the center of the universe. Next time, listen to the scientists and to your government before throwing your workers to the death row.

A lesson for the Japanese factories in China: next time, think twice before accepting your government's taxpayer money to relocate to some shithole in SE-Asia. You're not only hurting the Japanese people, but also your own profit rate.


UK looks to Asia with a hard eye on China: UK leader Boris Johnson is taking a progressively tougher stance on China that could encumber his 'global Britain' gambit in Asia

In a parallel universe where Suez never happened, the tories still feed their illusions of grandeur.


Xi says China ready to work with Germany, EU to create more global certainty

Humiliating blow to Germany.

The week after Borrell's virulent declaration, Xi declares the EU (i.e. Germany) is not a geopolitical threat.

I think that, when all this EU experiment is over, historians will look back and determine that Greece's collapse was the death of Germany's third (and last) imperial attempt. If the EU was completely integrated at that time, Germany would've certainly collapse a la USA 2008. That impelled the Northern 4 (Germany, Finland, Austria and the Netherlands) to immediately stop any progress towards federalization and begin to reverse any already existing initiative in this direction.


Chinese SMEs seeks opportunities through digital transformation

According to calculation, digitalization can cut 17.2 percent of cost and increase 22.6 percent of revenue for manufacturing enterprises, and the figures stand at 34.2 percent and 33.6 percent in logistics industry, and 7.8 percent and 33.3 percent in retail sector.

However, statistics indicate that only 25 percent of Chinese enterprises have started digital transformation.

A program was recently launched by the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) in cooperation with other government departments, leading enterprises, financial institutions, research institutes, and industrial associations, to provide online services for SMEs to help them be more digitally savvy. An initiative was released at the inauguration ceremony of the program, and over 500 service measures tailored for SMEs were rolled out to help them lower cost, reduce transformation period, and improve the success rate of transformation.

This is the difference between a Marxist State (socialist) and a capitalist State.


Japan softens re-entry ban that left foreign residents stranded

But, reading Western newspapers, I had the impression only China did that...

Posted by: vk | Jun 4 2020 13:00 utc | 129

America needs a major redistribution of Petri Krohn @ 8 but Red Rider @ 15 begs to differ with Krohm..

Wealth comes from growth, innovation, creativity.< maybe, says Snake, but its not from where it comes from but how it is distributed that counts. and I am not so sure growth is a part of wealth..

Simplest way[to distribute wealth] is Development Zones like China <= Snake says because China ignored copyright and patents, and used any invention, knowledge or know how from where ever they could get it, to compete with. that is why as you Say It has worked for China but it would never have worked if China had honored patents and copyrights.

Snake says long have the economist tried to hide the source and timing of the global economic problems we face today.. they ignore the books by John Brewer..below.. Hiding is necessary because if people understood that modern (since 1688) economic propaganda began in 1688, they would throw the bums involved with it off the end of the earth.

Snake says the simplest way to redistribute the wealth<= is to eliminate what caused the wealth skews in the first place "rule of law infringement into open, free, competitive competition", using force to install corporate constitutions that usurp the people's democracy, and using the governments and armed military force to help those corporate constitutions established governments that could be used to interfere with open free market competition. <= nationalize copyright and patent monopoly empires and return to the public domain all that has been captured by rule of law (nationalize all assets that belonged to or that should belong to government) <=anything granted by corrupted government to private enterprises should be retrieved back into government or made public right available to any and all to avail of. When government in America became the tool of the Aristocratic few, the few used the constitutional USA to make trillions off the backs and from the blood of the masses the USA governed, and the Aristocrats did it without doing hardly any work.

Snake Begs Karlof1 and RedRyder to remember it is the history of corporate economics that tracks the history of private corporations and wealthy Oligarchs who use government to create their wealth. In America it happened in the 2nd revolution 1788. This idea of predictive economics that can control competition is a false propaganda it has allowed the few to use the USA, and many other governments around the globe, to force Americans or those governed by the economic propaganda nation states that got into this mess in the first place.

Snake says The simplest way to restore America to its once great heights is to repeal all patents and copyrights and make everything protected by them public domain assets, do it now, right now, immediately (any body can use the X, or Y, or Z or whatever Operating System for free and amend it or strip parts from it as they please or anyone could make a drug and sell it for the lowest price in a highly competitive market place. ) Anything in private hands, that should be a government asset should be nationalized, take that part of private enterprise that consist of government services or that depends on government assets or contracts, or that delivers goods to government by contract back into the government and turn government into a monopoly cop. destroy anything that looks like a monopoly, there is just no place for a monopoly in a competitive sport (getting rich).

The government should produce what it needs outside of the competitive environment and it should tax business not private people for its source of funds. Capitalism is about competition between higly competitive private persons. One's back yard invention brings down yesterdays giant empire because the invention destroy the value of the old, and created a very new better new. Governments job is to be the referee. to deny any kind of monopoly power into the marketplace..

Karlof1 @ 18 and by: Lohmann 45 I agree the Rentier Class begain in Europe, but it was long before the 1848 Revolutions, it began in 1688 in the glorious revolution. following the GR came the copyright and patents became the European stock market conducted in the Aritocratic Coffee Houses in England, France, Holland, Scotland and places. see."the Pleasures of the Imagination, English Culture in the Eighteenth Century by John Brewer 0-226-07419-6 also by John Brewer, Party Ideology and Poular Politics: the Accession of George, III; the birth of a Consumer Society (with Neil Mckendrick and J. H. Plumb), The common People and Politics: 1750-1800: Popular Political participation Depicted in Cartoons and Caricature; the Sinews of Power: War, Money and the English State (1688-1783).

Neither Karloft1 or Lohmann recognize two American Revolutions (just as happened in Russia).. The first American Revolution 1776-1788, was the Continental Revolution.. there the every day citizen joined with American landed wealth to overthrow and toss out of British Corporate Power that dominated America (i.e. The British West Indies Company, the hundreds of British shipping and trading companies, and the government that protected the British Corporate Exploits in foreign nations and colonies).

Eleven years after the Continential Revolution, came the split between everyday democratic Americans and the ex British colonial landed estate owning Gentry, in what I call the "1788 Constitution by Ratification Revolution". read my comment at
Posted by: snake | Jun 3 2020 2:51 utc | 104

once again little is needed to fix the economy but to wipe copyright, patents laws off the books, and to retrieve those assets and services of government gifted by corrupt and misled elected leaders who used their positions in government to give to private owners the public domain and the assets and resources of government.

Government involvement in economic activity should be limited to playing referee between the competing private players. True the price of everything will fall to 1930 prices, and Wall Street Barons will shrink into their pots of gold, but America will be America again.. and a penny will buy a loaf of bread, but no one will need stocks, bonds, derivatives, or junk mortgage paper..

Posted by: snake | Jun 4 2020 13:03 utc | 130

"And why, by the way, ain't the Democrats out in front demanding that more be done to create new jobs?"

But how the government "creates new jobs" these days? At the very beginning of COVID-19 "situation", before the infections spread throughout the country, the known steps were prepared: cut of interest rates and the largest "quantitative easing" ever. Then there was a wave of temporary closures of businesses, and the "little people" were in two types of situation: those who could not earn money, and those who could not spend, with some combinations. And it is not like the credit card interest was reduced to zero for a duration, the trickling of quantitative easing to the "little people" is not simple. I am happy that I got a check for $1200 and I could spend a little part of that yesterday for much delayed haircut. Hair salons have booming business, the modest salon that I visited was taking booking for Saturday on Wednesday, but one can guess that the workers lost more than $1200 and will be very cautious with "impulse buying" for a while.

I seriously think that there are no tools that government can use right now. No wonder that when he was asked what his government will do to restart the economy, "Prime Minister Justin Trudeau paused at his podium for 21 uncomfortable, televised seconds. He opened his mouth, then shut it — twice. He softly groaned." (WARNING: I PLACED A GENUINE QUOTE IN FALSE CONTEXT)

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 4 2020 13:09 utc | 131

Scanning the news this morning saw three references to “animals in the streets”.

New meme. ... We have always been nothing but animals to our masters. ...

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 4 2020 12:02 utc | 122

About 30 years ago I was driving to New York City and as I was flipping through radio stations I head a vehement rant of a talk show host against the police and prison system for "coddling the animals". I doubt if this is a "new meme" in 2020.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 4 2020 13:19 utc | 132

Actually, it is hard to believe how one can become famous by saying nothing. Google "Trudeau 21". OK, it helps to have some fame before the fact to build an expectation that you will say something... However, this is a genuinely new meme. No old hits in Google search.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 4 2020 13:24 utc | 133

What needs to be said in any parliament by any oppositon wirth the name. May e it is not perfect, but at least is something for a change. Said by Unidas Podemos representative directed to far-right party, Vox, funded by the US far-right.

In the previous days, the spokesperson of the Popular Party, ( another franchise of the multiple current myriad in which have expanded the Spanish far-right from a common nexus, the think tank FAES ), a foreign marquoise of French-Argentinian nationality, educated in Oxford, who had to fill for Spanish citizenship so as to be able to get the Spanish parliament representative´s wage, and who, during the past year sweated to fulfill her duty by making an ammount of 7 questions!, submitted in written form, not even asked in person at parliament, called the leader of Unidas Podemos, and current Minister of Social Issues at the coalition government, Pablo Iglesias, "terrorist" in Parliament, because his father had been jailed in the past for the "criminal activity" of spreading anti-francoist panphlets during Franco´s fascist dictatorship.
Notice, how this foreign woman, I would say foreign agent by how much she cares for the Spanish people, follows the script dictated from the US to the letter, on labeling the Spanish antifascist left as "terrorist", because, for once, in half a century, there is someone in the government doing something for the masses in the middle of an economic crisis of unknown proportions, so as to try that nobody gets behind, abandoned, as happened during 2008 crisis exported from the US...

Yes, you can!


Ladies and gentlemen of Vox, freedom is not freedom to insult trade unionists in Malaga, or members of the LGTBI community in Barcelona, ​​nor to beat up a neighbor in Granada for hanging a republican flag on his balcony.

Freedom is not going to celebrate the Euro Cup, as Mr. Espinosa de los Monteros said, in the midst of collective mourning, with almost 30,000 deaths and the risk of contagion to others.

Freedom, ladies and gentlemen, is incompatible with having the saucepan in one hand, and the flag with a Francoist eagle in the other!
Freedom is incompatible with the fear that you want to inoculate people, to make them individualistic, conservative and suspicious.

Freedom is not given by your hoaxes, selfishness, or impotence.
Freedom is given by truth, hope, and rights, the rights that that generation of Pablo Iglesias' father won, yes, but also those that we are now gaining with the Minimum Vital Income that you have said was a ration card. Camus again.... Stupidity insists....
That Minimum Vital Income will make almost 1 million homes freer. Rights such as those granted by ERTES, and the prohibitions of dismissals and evictions approved despite your vote against.

Because our obligation, ladies and gentlemen, is, precisely, to give citizens rights, which is what allows them to take away their fear, the fear of being left without an income, without a job, without a house, without a future.
Ladies and gentlemen, being free means that nobody has to ask permission from you or from any señorito ( note. tr. rentier Spanish class ) in order to survive.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 4 2020 13:50 utc | 134

The radical and ever combative Trotskyists are calling the American working class... to defend "democracy in America"!

A call to the working class! Stop Trump’s coup d’état!

You really couldn't make this up.

The hypothesis that WSWS is infested with CIA/FBI agents - or even that it is an entirely CIA/FBI façade - is growing on me.

Posted by: vk | Jun 4 2020 14:01 utc | 135

Juan Carlos Monedero @MonederoJC The millionaires are not going to request the Minimum Vital Income, since it seems that they are not going to need it. They have already cashed in on the pandemic.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 4 2020 14:09 utc | 136

"Where Are the Job Programs It Needs?"

Brick throwing, molotov cocktailing, looting ... do they not count?

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Jun 4 2020 14:14 utc | 137

vato #40

No, nowhere near revolution. But mebbe, just mebbe, something like Petersburg 1905, Bloody Sunday. The comparative body counts mostly irrelevant, the trampling of the public's trust the thing.

Posted by: blindpig | Jun 4 2020 14:28 utc | 138

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Jun 4 2020 14:14 utc | 137

Yeah and like medieval soldiery you don't even need to pay them. Just release them in the city to get their "pay" looting the enemy. What a racket!

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 4 2020 14:28 utc | 139

Has anyone news from Pentagon and the WH?...I mean some insider...from the Navy or so...

Wondering if the saucepans have started flying around...

Who from these people would be vaccinated and who not? From the Covid-19, I mean....

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 4 2020 15:06 utc | 140

@ 101 milomilo... you're wrong on jen and how you want to characterize her...

Posted by: james | Jun 4 2020 15:15 utc | 141

@ Red Ryder | Jun 3 2020 19:14 utc | 15

Unfortunately, those so-called "enterprise zones" with their temporary tax abatements never work out well for the communities in which they're set up.

Invariably, dogged citizen investigators will discover that the promised number of jobs did not come into existence, and once the abatements run out the companies in the zone pull up stakes and leave behind legions of suddenly unemployed workers with no place to go.

We've witnessed exactly that in the city where I live, and have had reports from a number of other localities across the nation who've experienced the same thing.

It's a trap!

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 4 2020 15:27 utc | 142

@124 It nearly happened to me. At one time I considered getting a giant tatoo on my back saying FUCK (in Gothic script of course). Then I started hearing the word so often it occured to me that it could become obsolete.

Posted by: dh | Jun 4 2020 15:35 utc | 143

karlof1 - thanks so much for the Hudson links. So many things just click into place listening to him.

And thanks to Lohman for that Adam Smith excerpt. I never read that seminal treatise but was aware that AS was a lot more complicated than today's capitalists present him.

Blue Dotterel @110 - the lockdown/general strike (seeming)paradox was one thing I was trying to wrap my head around in my original post on the previous thread. Which I suspect led to this current piece being put up for discussion. Not taking credit; I live in the body electric, not just my own, but the collective body. The black/general outburst of protest is of course genuine and legitimate, but there is much more going on here, i.e. systemic and prolonged economic and social injustice.

Finally RSH @97 - re Hudson and his seeming invisibility. I found just the little of what I watched following k's links to be very easily understandable. No-one in the US msm will carry his message just because it is so easily understandable and could possibly be the proverbial straw on the camel's back.

And, finally, finally - someone above said all of what goes on here and in other discussion groups is inconsequential and amounts to nothing/will amount to nothing. I do not agree. If nothing else is true, what is absolutely certain is that our masters constantly monitor what the plebes and prols are discussing amongst ourselves. In order to either pre-empt or co-opt it. The internet is a powerful force and tool but none of us should lose sight of the fact of who owns it and who controls it. All of this can be shut down in the blink of an eye. There is precedence, Egypt for one, and if I'm not mistaken in Turkey, but BD might correct me here.

I've been more present here in the last few days due to a minor hand injury keeping me from doing the things I really should be doing. Injury healed, got to get back to work. Come back and read to catch up as I can. Peace to all of honest intent and heart.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Jun 4 2020 15:36 utc | 144

FIRE is a term used my Michael Hudson and other likeminded political-economists. He uses it so often it's hard to provide the initial instance.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 3 2020 19:09 utc | 13

By the way Karlof1, FIRE is an absolutely bog-standard term in business and economics, it has nothing to do with Hudson - that is, except that Hudson gives FIRE a much more negative connotation that is otherwise glossed over.

Posted by: BM | Jun 4 2020 16:23 utc | 145

snake @130--

Thanks for your input, but beware of trying to guess at what I do or don't know.

Lohmann @82--Thanks for your reply! We're on the same page and see how things ought to work but aren't. As usual, the biggest divide is over how to divest power from those wielding it, but we agree that that must be accomplished for any change to be generated.

vinnieoh @144--

As I've commented before, just going though Hudson's website and all its written, audio, and video material would take several years, but would be well worth the knowledge gained--the equivalent of a 4-year college degree.

Et Al--As I've written before, my goal is to inform and if possible to persuade, but my focus is clearly on the former. The same is true for any professional & ethical educator or journalist. The task is made far more complicated since so many people in the West--especially within the Outlaw US Empire--are history averse and lack a huge amount of what I'd deem the minimal amount of prior knowledge required to fulfill one's duty as a citizen. Indeed, in that regard there're probable more non-citizens than citizens, which in turn helps contribute to their own oppression--Orwell's description of the Proles in 1984 strikes me as apt. Somewhere along the line, the value of gaining wisdom and the knowledge needed to acquire it was swept away.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 4 2020 18:11 utc | 146

Trump only "understands" that if you play on stupid people's emotions they will vote for you. Hitler in his book "mein kampf" knew this too. So Trump's tactics and base are the same type of low lifes that Hitler used to start the second world war. Well done America.

Posted by: grtblu | Jun 4 2020 20:34 utc | 147

How Dumb Can Our Nation Get?

58 percent of Americans want the military brought in to help the police deal with riots!

And here you thought the pro-democracy forces had public support!

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 4 2020 21:17 utc | 148

Prior to the virus, I only posted here off and on depending on foreign policy issues, mostly Iran (as Sakineh likes to chide me about.)
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 4 2020 6:57 utc | 102

Somebody’s got to explain MAD (gladly I don’t have to define it to this mature audience) to the bomb, bomb crowd. I’m just a vigilante on that.

Remember Reuel Marc Gerecht, Senior Fellow at FDD (that bastion of democracy) ? Said in 2010: “[I] counted up the other day: I’ve written about 25,000 words about bombing Iran. Even my mom thinks I’ve gone too far.

Well he’s not done. He, and the other ardent rabid Iran born, anti-Iran, Ray Takeyh are still writing on regime change in Iran. Now, using tropes as misogyny and homophobia to add to the list of complaints against the “regime.”

If the current pressure hasn’t worked, add more. The boot (or is it the knee in current parlance), don’t let it off the neck, till it chokes. It’s worked before with the Soviets.

Much of Washington fears that the only alternative to arms control is war. Far preferable would be a strategy of relentless pressure that with time cracks the regime. This was the definition of containment as envisioned by George Kennan. He advocated unrelenting patience with the Soviet Union; we should do the same with Iran.

Wanna add a few of your words to theirs, Richard? And no, I don’t think you are an “astroturfer”, just an ideologue.

Forward going, whomever want to argue for bombing Iran, will have to cut and paste the following, then start from there.
I’ll to be as succinct as I can, so as to not hurt too many brain cells.
Here it goes:

The problem of ‘The war with Iran’ IS NOT ‘The war with Iran.’
The problem of ‘The war with Iran’ IS ‘How to stop — The war with Iran?’
Surely, Iran will fight to a nuclear death if it has to. Once a nuke is detonated over Tehran, follow up runs will be, on Isfahan, Mashhad, and Shiraz. From there, Moscow, St. Petersburg, Beijing, and shanghai.
Whomever advocates for this, is advocating for end times. Nuclear annihilation of the planet. Rapture, that is.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jun 4 2020 22:09 utc | 149

James @ 141:

Thanks for the support, much appreciated. Richard Steven Hack @ 102 and Krypton @ 108 did a good job of seeing off Millmilo or Milomilo (or perhaps Otis Otis) so I didn't bother answering back.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 4 2020 22:50 utc | 150

@150 - I'm sad to see what my favorite bar has become. I check in now and then for a drink of the wisdom. Now I only do so when I see that Jen has arrived. I wish I knew you in real life. It has all become super depressing.
Thank you, Jen, and the other cool folks. But I'm glad there isn't a bouncer, I guess.

Posted by: lex talionis | Jun 5 2020 0:12 utc | 151

@ 150 jen.. i don't think milo has english as his first language.... i don't believe he does nuance, or understand the humour in your post on the open thread either.. it would partly explain his bizarre behaviour..

Posted by: james | Jun 5 2020 1:19 utc | 152

Link of Sakineh Bagoom | Jun 4 2020 22:09 utc [To people who follow the stale taboo of not going for forced regime change in Iran] Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) is reactionary, if not a tad villainous, because of his ardent opposition to Tehran.

My comment: good senator is consistent indeed. Now he advocated unleashing full majesty of US military on the unruly elements in American cities. Didn't his ancestor claim the right to rebel?

And that fits with supporting similarly deranged folks in KSA and Ukraine (but the latter are too poor to purchase adequate amount of American weapons, Russia is tougher than Yemen).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 5 2020 3:21 utc | 153

Why are the Dems AWOL on job creation for the average person? A realist would say it is because they are the party of the Woke capitalists. A cynic would say they want Americans to suffer as much as possible, to make sure things get worseand worse, in order to defeat Donald Trump.

Posted by: Fran Macadam | Jun 5 2020 6:56 utc | 154

"And why, by the way, ain't the Democrats out in front demanding that more be done to create new jobs? They seem to have totally vanished from the scene."

I recall being in an airport in spring of 2016. All the TV screens were tuned to news channels, showing an empty podium for over an hour, waiting for Donald Trump to come out and give an explanation of inconsistencies in his charitable organization's finances.

Meanwhile, Hillary was giving a speech on better job opportunities for handicapped people, but the networks found an empty podium more "newsworthy".

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jun 5 2020 9:46 utc | 155

In the real world.

Unemployment Falls to 13.3% and Economy Adds 2.5 Million Jobs

U.S. unemployment rate fell to 13.3 percent and payrolls unexpectedly rose by 2.5 million workers as the easing of restrictions on business activity and government aid led to new hiring in May.

Posted by: Zanon | Jun 5 2020 16:12 utc | 156

They call that the "Dead cat bounce".

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jun 5 2020 16:32 utc | 157

Prior to the Hoover and Roosevelt administrations, US recessions were short in duration
Whatever the depth of the fall may have been.

Inefficient companies and jobs disappeared, along with the over-indebted.

This creative destruction is the key feature of a free economy.

First Hoover interfered in the US recovery from the 1929 crash. Then FDR tripled down on "federal programs" and Keynesian schemes. FDR'S jobs program, the WPA, acquired the deserving title of "We Play Around".

Between the two Presidents, a Great Depression was formed that lasted for 13 years. Only Trunan's freeing of the economy after WWII returned the US to growth finally.

Keynesianism is the problem, not the solution.

Posted by: Liberty Blogger | Jun 5 2020 16:36 utc | 158

@ Posted by: Liberty Blogger | Jun 5 2020 16:36 utc | 158

That's not what happened.

When FDR took office, he implemented bread and butter capitalist policies, cutting costs and giving tax breaks (austerity). Austerity then plunged the US economy into an even deeper recession, culminating with the 1937 crisis.

It was only after the 1937 crisis, and the imminence of the WWII, that FDR changed course and fully implemented the New Deal.

But even the New Deal didn't work that well. It was still better than the "creative destruction" you speak of, but not by that much.

It was only the destruction of Eurasia due to the WWII that the US economy finally found the vital space it needed for a full boom and recovery.

Posted by: vk | Jun 5 2020 16:54 utc | 159

I lost all faith in Capitalism in 1979, when the US Government bailed out Chrysler Corporation because nobody was about to face the political fallout from putting 40,000 workers directly out of a job, and hundreds of thousands of others indirectly when one of America's major auto manufacturers folded.

Nowadays there are two sorts of actors on the market: Those that are Too Big to Fail and those that are Too Small to Succeed.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jun 5 2020 18:12 utc | 160

Hoover and FDR raised federal spending, suppressed interest rates and imposed massive regulation as the failed cure for the Great Depression.

Truman reduced federal spending by 80% while eliminating government dictates. There was no jobs program, only liberty.

This Truman policy quickly led to the greatest economic boom in history.

No matter the rhetorical formula, socialism is the bane of economic prosperity.

Posted by: Liberty Blogger | Jun 6 2020 2:57 utc | 161

This article is mostly true, as far as it goes, but is only half the story – and perhaps not the most important half. Precisely because the economy is embodied and embedded in the material world and, in addition to providing services, creates material products and has to grow and deliver food and other “stuff”, it uses a huge amount of energy. This comes from coal, oil, natural gas and a small percentage of biomass, wind, solar and hydro power.

The point is that the toxicity of carbon fuels is one problems but now there is also the fact that they are severely depleted. It costs more to extract them with processes like fracking requiring more wells, water, sand and, crucially, energy to build the rigs and to power the drilling, the pumps and the tankers. The energy and financial cost of energy is getting higher all the time – but consumers and other companies cannot afford rising energy prices so large parts of the energy sector are moving towards bankruptcy. The collapse in demand and in oil prices has made this situation worse. So we are already beyond peak oil and can be said to have reached the limits to economic growth.

Proposals for public works need to take this into account in a way that “Moon of Alabama” does not do here. So the crisis is much bigger than “b” admits and because, for example, monocultural industrial food systems are heavily dependent on fossil fuels for farm machinery, petro chemicals, processing and delivery the situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Yes there is an issue with the political influence and corruption of the FIRE sector not seeing the need to invest in “the real economy”, of being completely indifferent to the suffering of ordinary people - but there is also a problem of “left economists” whose understanding of the energetics and ecological toxicity of the material economy is shallow at best. ,

By the way, the statement “People who do not make money can not spend any.” is true over the long term – but is not strictly true in many contexts– they can borrow it and/or run down any savings up to a point – and a lot of that has been happening up to the covid crisis which is why this crisis is a genuine tipping point. This is the point where it can go no further. Humanity can also overshoot the carrying capacity of the planet for a time but that also reaches a point where ecological collapse occurs, However you would never know that reading this blog...

Posted by: Brian Davey | Jun 6 2020 8:39 utc | 162

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