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June 28, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-51

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

Prof Francois Balloux @BallouxFrancois - 20:26 UTC · Jun 27, 2020
Newspaper headlines from the the 1918/19 influenza pandemic. A furious debate about masks raged throughout the 1918/19 winter in San Francisco, with arguments essentially indistinguishable from those populating my Twitter feed
(for more info see: influenzaarchive.org/cities/city-sanfrancisco)
> The New York Times publication that Russia allegedly offered secretly bounties to Afghan militants for killing coalition forces was fabricated by the US intelligence agencies, Russia’s Foreign Ministry told TASS on Saturday.
...
The Russian Foreign Ministry pointed to US intelligence agencies’ involvement in Afghan drug trafficking.

"Should we speak about facts - moreover, well-known [facts], it has not long been a secret in Afghanistan that members of the US intelligence community are involved in drug trafficking, cash payments to militants for letting transport convoys pass through, kickbacks from contracts implementing various projects paid by American taxpayers. The list of their actions can be continued if you want," the ministry said.
...
"We can understand their feelings as they do not want to be deprived of the above mentioned sources of the off-the-books income," the ministry stressed. <

Office of the DNI @ODNIgov - 3:19 UTC · 28 Jun 2020
Statement by DNI Ratcliffe: "I have confirmed that neither the President nor the Vice President were ever briefed on any intelligence alleged by the New York Times in its reporting yesterday." (1/2)
"The White House statement addressing this issue earlier today, which denied such a briefing occurred, was accurate. The New York Times reporting, and all other subsequent news reports about such an alleged briefing are inaccurate.” (2/2)

---
Other issues:

Covid-19:

The mortality rate of hospitalized Covid-19 patients is declining in Italy as well as in England. The reasons are unknown. My hunch is that by now doctors have learned much more about the disease's progression (cytokine storm, blood clotting) and how to manage it. The case load in both countries has also declined leaving more time for individual cases. This is really good news. The chances to find a good vaccine are not great. This makes good disease management and the right mix of medications for all the problems the virus causes even more important. An example is this man who endured more than two months of ventilation and survived!

SARS-CoV-2 timeline:

This well conducted study from Italy on old sewage samples found that SARS-CoV-2 was in Italy as early as December 18. In contrast this not peer reviewed study from Spain claims that SARS-CoV-2 has been found in March 2019 sewage samples from Barcelona. Several media have picked up on that. It contradicts the analysis of sequenced virus genomes which say that the virus jumped onto humans only in November 2019. There is only one sample in the study that shows partial virus debris and it is not even specific for SARS-CoV-2. I therefore agree with this comment:

Alan McNally @alanmcn1 - 22:14 UTC · Jun 26, 2020
They are using a PCR target shown to have Toss of a coin specificity and their amplifications are right on borderline. This is another example of importance of peer review I am afraid. This is not true!

Pandemic consequences:

737 MAX:

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on June 28, 2020 at 12:50 UTC | Permalink

Comments
next page »

I don t know... the flwg:
how much and for how long did (do?) the american bastards traffick drugs in Afghanistan, in Colombia, in Iraq, in Kosovo giant base,
in the Panama canal zone for decades..
But I know they did
I actually don t know how many crimes and criminal actions the bastard americans committed in one hundred of their military bases and pertaining land/facilities around the world in the last 50 years, because they DEMAND and obtain extraterritorial legal
exemption to prosecution to their crimes committed therein...
But I know they are countless.
Do you want the list on on and counting?

Posted by: augusto | Jun 28 2020 13:37 utc | 1

just south of where I live we have a BSL 4 facility in Hamilton, MT. years ago GlaxoSmithKline closed up operations in Hamilton and fired over 20 people. two of those employees stayed in Montana and hooked up with the University of Montana to launch a biotech startup called Inimmune. you can read all about here.

our University is in prime position to be fully weaponized by the medical totalitarian state that is emerging to fight the dreaded pandemic, in part because of a critical book by Jon Krakauer about rape culture in my community drove enrollment down. now we have a West Point/GE guy as president by the name of Seth Bodnar. this military dude will help drive a stake through the heart of the humanities.

in addition to our university woes, Missoula is trying to become a little inland silicon valley. we are suffering from BES (Bozeman Envy Syndrome) and our elected leaders are desperately courting tech. failed states on the west coast, and comparatively affordable housing, are driving a migration of wealth to smaller college towns like Missoula. with financial incentives like Trump's opportunity zones and tax increment financing, development isn't slowing down and the demand for housing continues to be very high. this article describes how real estate is getting snatched up site-unseen as the delusion of a V shaped economic rebound evaporates.

there is plenty of wealth already here in Montana, like Pritzker loot. here's wikipedia describing Linda: Linda Pritzker (born September 1953[3]) also known by the name Lama Tsomo is an American lama in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. She is a spiritual teacher, author, philanthropist, and co-founder of the Namchak Foundation and Namchak Retreat Ranch[4] in Missoula, Montana. She is a member of the Pritzker family, known for the Hyatt Hotel fortune.

strange times.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 28 2020 13:49 utc | 2

"My hunch is that by now doctors have learned much more about the disease's progression (cytokine storm, blood clotting) and how to manage it."

I believe the UK is where the dexamethasone Study was done. Possibly more doctors are using it. The Front-Line COVID-19 Critical Care Working Group have been pushing corticosteroids as the main treatment in their MATH+ Protocol, and they believe the UK study provides evidence that they are on the right track. Their Protocol specifically targets the cytokine storm and they use heparin for the blood clots. Now if they can only get a full-fledged trial going. Unfortunately their Web site doesn't provide much info about how much traction they're getting promoting their Protocol.

The 1918 SF article proves that morons are morons no matter how many years have passed. I'm sure there were such during the Black Plague. I sincerely hope the coronavirus mutates before the second wave and starts killing all the younger people just to see their reaction when they have to bear the brunt. Can't wait for all the "it's just the flu" BS from these morons to dry up.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 28 2020 14:08 utc | 3

Trump himself has rubbished the NYT's Russia/Taliban story on Twitter today:

"Nobody briefed or told me, @VP Pence, or Chief of Staff @MarkMeadows about the so-called attacks on our troops in Afghanistan by Russians, as reported through an “anonymous source” by the Fake News @nytimes. Everybody is denying it & there have not been many attacks on us..... "
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1277202159109537793

"The Fake News @ nytimes must reveal its “anonymous” source. Bet they can’t do it, this “person” probably does not even exist! twitter.com/richardgrenell… "
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1277215720418484224

Posted by: Brendan | Jun 28 2020 14:18 utc | 4

Senior vassal protects his rations from junior vassal:

Japan objects to Trump's plan to add South Korea to G7: Kyodo

Japan not willing to give up its status as USA's favorite in East Asia...

--//--

Spain and its pathetic imperial delusions:

‘Does Spain have anything to say?’ Venezuela fumes after WSJ ‘confirms’ Guaido ally plotted to topple Maduro from SPANISH EMBASSY

Looks like 2008 crisis wasn't enough - the Spanish people will have to get punished more in order to realize the situation it's really in.

Posted by: vk | Jun 28 2020 14:19 utc | 5

Yesterday there was an extremely important news item which it seems the MSM are most unwilling to be publicized, I posted it in all the covid-19 items' correspondence and my comments disappeared very rapidly indeed. The item concerned was an announcement from Madrid, that researchers there had found cov-sar2 (Covid-19) virus in wastewater samples taken back to 12th March 2019! The reference is "Spain's top researchers discover coronavirus in waste water collected on March 12, 2019" http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-06/27/c_139169279.htm. This it seems to me, removes the likelihood that the outbreak was a biowar attack by anyone.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 28 2020 14:21 utc | 6

Richard Steven Hack @3

It is one thing to state what you think the coronavirus is and what may happen with the coronavirus in the future, it is quite another to state:

"I sincerely hope the coronavirus mutates before the second wave and starts killing all the younger people just to see their reaction when they have to bear the brunt. Can't wait for all the "it's just the flu" BS from these morons to dry up."

That is just plain evil.

Posted by: JasonT | Jun 28 2020 14:22 utc | 7

@JasonT,

RSH is a self-admitted transhumanist sociopath who regularly expresses his desire to see people hurt and killed, thinks anyone who doesn't agree with him is a troll, but he also wants you to wear a mask to keep everyone safe.

the frequency of his noise-inducing commentary is itself a trollesque technique that is for some reason tolerated by the barkeep.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 28 2020 14:34 utc | 8

Indian, Chinese troops still in eyeball-to-eyeball standoff
Vijaita Singh New Delhi , June 28, 2020

The entire stretch along LAC in Ladakh has witnessed “worrisome hardening of Chinese positions” since April-May, with China occupying a considerable area from Finger 4 to 8 near Pangong Tso (lake).

Posted by: Antonym | Jun 28 2020 14:35 utc | 9

"Should we speak about facts - moreover, well-known [facts], it has not long been a secret in Afghanistan that members of the US intelligence community are involved in drug trafficking, cash payments to militants for letting transport convoys pass through, kickbacks from contracts implementing various projects paid by American taxpayers. The list of their actions can be continued if you want," the ministry said.
...
"We can understand their feelings as they do not want to be deprived of the above mentioned sources of the off-the-books income," the ministry stressed. <

This has been well known for quite awhile! I've hung out with alot of different mil types. All have stories and all talk despite it being a big no no. A guy I believe told me (in 2008?) that 3 days after the invasion of Afghanistan his first duties was providing security for some "spook" as he helicopter convoyed around dropping off handfuls of cash to village elders and farmers to convince them to regrow poppies. More money to come if they did so.
A buddy of his said that he watched Colin Powell give his UN speech from some shit hole in Iraq. Why? He wouldn't say. What makes these stories more interesting if true is that these "soldiers" r Canadian.
I always wondered y some journalist didn't just flash her tits at the local watering hole next to a certain base or two. Absolute mine of stories in the inter/national interest untouched. Just a part of the matrix I guess.

Posted by: PleaseBeleafMe | Jun 28 2020 14:41 utc | 10

NYT exclusive: breaking, bombshell report, bombshell report, Russia pays Taliban to kill U.S. Troops

The puppets dance for their puppet masters yet again. I was struck that in all of the MSM responses on CNN and FOX every single host accepted it as an absolute fact that this was true. If an unnamed source said something to a reporter at the NYT then it must have happened in that way and the facts are irrefutable. Wow our 'journalists' are pathetic.

1. The guy who leaked this could be twisting a half or even quarter truth to embarrass Trump, derail our withdrawal from Germany or Afghanistan ... nahh impossible. Our CIA guys never have an agenda.

2. This could be disinformation against Russia ... nahh we are the good guys, that's not how we roll.

The guy on CNN could not believe the WH statement that they were not briefed, 'it strains credibility'. Maybe one POW made an outlandish claim to get better treatment and lower level staff did not think the claim itself had enough credibility. Nope, it was leaked by an Intelligence guy, therefore it must be true.

journalism is dead. buried, dug up, cremated and then scattered over a trash dump in the U.S.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jun 28 2020 15:17 utc | 11

what's this all about?

Posted by: snake | Jun 28 2020 15:27 utc | 12

If it was just the one Barcelona finding, as b relates in his piece above, then we might treat as an anomaly the suspicion of COVID-19 present in March of last year - 2019 - in the wastewater.

BUT, additional findings and investigations from other countries are reported by Reuters in the news story posted by psychohistorian at the tail end of the previous Mask thread: #289.

That Reuters story is here, and claims only what its headline says:
Italy sewage study suggests COVID-19 was there in December 2019

But it also offers us this information:

Research in the Netherlands, France, Australia and elsewhere has found signs that the virus that causes COVID-19 can be detected in sewage, and many countries are beginning to sample wastewater to track the disease.

[...]

Noel McCarthy, an expert in population evidence and technologies at Britain’s Warwick Medical School, said the detection of SARS-Cov-2 genetic material in Italian wastewater in December was “reliable evidence of cases of COVID-19 being present there at that time”.

So we don't know more than we already knew about Italy's infection seeming distinct from China's, and possibly unrelated. But we are getting the impression that wastewater archives are a great place to check for disease histories, and that other countries are exploring their own sources.

In terms of investigative endeavor, and in the light of ongoing curiosity around the world, it seems perhaps premature yet to dismiss the Barcelona finding as a false trail. We should at least file it and see what else comes to light.

All we definitely know at present is that we should stay vigilant for any new findings that might arise. This would be an easy story to bury.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 28 2020 15:27 utc | 13

- Why you shouldn't wear a face mask if you're healthy -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqRL1GXu5DE&fbclid=IwAR3frX-rqDynOuZRRr62fVfKHGcvqa1rDTK4ohNTl1ZT-2KRYgCPfQYgcfg

Posted by: Fog of War | Jun 28 2020 15:30 utc | 14

"My hunch is that by now doctors have learned much more about the disease's progression (cytokine storm, blood clotting) and how to manage it."

I am sure that you are right. The cause of the excess mortality is not the virus so much as the adoption of neo-liberal values by the health system: old people are seen as of marginal utility. "On the whole" reasons the capitalist class, "it will make little difference to the functioning of the economy and is likely to be, leaving aside the political fallout, beneficial for us if we simply go through the motions of trying to save lives."
The Do Not Resuscitate order has become central to the treatment of this sickness. Bear in mind that its subjects are much more likely to be poor, powerless and obscure. The wealthy -excepting only those whose descendants will be happy to inherit sooner rather than later- have much more protection-private nursing and guaranteed intensive care.
The Health sector is problematic for capitalists- as a source of profit it is fabulous, a system of blackmail which leads regularly to the trading of old people's life savings for a few weeks of treatment, but it is a constant reminder of the cannibalistic core in the system, every epidemic gives rise to calls for socialised medicine and has the potential of reversing years of stealthy privatisation.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 28 2020 15:38 utc | 15

In 1918 universal masking had become politicized as it is today. In San Francisco, as you note there was an anto-masking league. John Barry, author of The Great Influenza was interviewed last week on th grand rounds at UCSF. https://missionlocal.org/2020/06/ucsf-grand-rounds-sits-down-with-author-of-best-selling-1918-flu-history/ He said masks were not effective in stopping the influenza pandemic. San Francisco local government pushed mask-wearing and San Francisco did relatively well. But not because of masks. Barry says that SF leaders told the truth and people responded “heroically” as a community Today SF has imposed mask regulations and most people, by far, wear masks always outside home But SF doesnt ask anything other than its tech workers and professionals stay at home and wear masks Masking now instead of complimenting physical distancing has supplanted it. And a UCSF spokesman says masks are the “solution” to asymptomatic spread. SF cannot do mass testing and contact tracing is a failure as is quarantine if you are not wealthy. Masks cannot cover up a dysfunctional disastrous public health system. Masks make cheap, easy propaganda and provide a false sense of security and community. Which is different from telling the truth.

Posted by: mark | Jun 28 2020 15:44 utc | 16

From the man himself, conspiracy theorists:

Western conspiracy theories suggesting Covid-19 is man-made & was unleashed deliberately are not backed by evidence – Putin

Can we stop with this bioweapon nonsense now?

Posted by: vk | Jun 28 2020 15:46 utc | 17

Coronavirus - the US enjoyed a record high average of daily new cases this past week due to pathetic leadership and idiotic mask shunning. Have fun.

The increasing number of tests being performed only partially explains the rocket rise in new cases, but we all knew that already didn't we.

https://time.com/5854572/covid-19-testing-florida-texas-arizona/

More younger people are catching it now as they return to work and public leisure activities, retirees don't go to work as much, etc. So expect a delay in older folks acquiring it as the younger people spread the disease to relatives.

Hidden and long term damage remains an issue and a mystery. Affecting young/old, asymptomatic/symptomatic.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/06/coronavirus-asymptomatic-people-can-still-develop-lung-damage.html

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infection

https://www.sfgate.com/news/editorspicks/article/What-they-don-t-tell-you-about-surviving-15347792.php

Death rates continue to drop as treatments improve and a younger cohort gets infected. It will be interesting to see what happens as the skyrocketing new case load ages a couple of weeks. Early in the pandemic in the US daily deaths climbed to between 2 - 2.5K while average daily new cases hovered a little above 30K. Based on history, with daily new cases now exceeding 40K you'd expect to see around 3K daily deaths, roughly. But that may not happen.

I decided to check and verify the marvel that Sweden is w.r.t. COVID-19, relative to other nearby countries by sampling some key numbers. Oh they're doing great.

All numbers per Worldometer.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Sweden total cases / million = 6,450
Norway total cases / million = 1,632
Denmark total cases / million = 2,188
Finland total cases / million = 1,299
Germany total cases / million = 2,324
Estonia total cases / million = 1,498

Sweden deaths / million = 523
Norway deaths / million = 46
Denmark deaths / million = 104
Finland deaths / million = 59
Germany deaths / million = 108
Estonia deaths / million = 52

Posted by: snow_watcher | Jun 28 2020 16:12 utc | 18

Posted by: JasonT | Jun 28 2020 14:22 utc | 7 That is just plain evil.

If you believe in evil... I don't.

A bunch of punks here and elsewhere have suggested that since elderly people are the most at risk, we should ignore their deaths in favor of the economy. In reality, their motivation is they are irritated by the "inconvenience" of a shutdown and scared at losing their jobs as a result of this country's inability to handle a pandemic.

In other words, they don't care if I die as long as they're not inconvenience. I'm just returning the favor.

Fuck 'em.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 28 2020 16:12 utc | 19

thanks b... always lots to ponder...

@ 6 foolisholdman... do you read b's posts?? it doesn't look like it..

@ 13 grieved... as i mentioned earlier on the previous thread where you bring up larry romanoffs article - i am very sceptical on the veracity of it.. the story seems built on speculation more then anything else... and that is perfect for a conspiracy theorist... well, since i am on the topic working with conspiracy, what about the idea that intel agencies of a different sort would like to seed this idea to create more confusion?? count me sceptical... cheers..

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2020 16:13 utc | 20

another voice in the wilderness - off twitter and shared to me by a friend... from the UK -

"As Israel moves forward with the annexation of the West Bank, and mainstream British politics is gagged of the right to critique Zionism, and Israel’s settler colonial pursuits, we loudly and clearly stand beside our Palestinian comrades.

FREE PALESTINE."

may as well say 'free UK' too while you are at it.. maybe trump can clean uks swamp too since he's doing such a fine job at home? lololol...

Posted by: sandstone8@yahoo.com | Jun 28 2020 16:16 utc | 21

With the 737 MAX, beneath all the computer patches, and now patches on patches, you’ve still got an aerodynamically unstable aircraft. Can that really be softwared away without cost to, if (emphasize if) no longer safety, then at least fuel efficiency, which was the raison d’être of the whole program?

Posted by: David G | Jun 28 2020 16:25 utc | 22

In a recent article, MoA examined the situation in Belarus, and wrote, in particular:

No, the Guardian, which published the 'Slipper revolution' headline today but later changed it, did not come up with that stupid moniker by itself.

I would not call this a stupid moniker. The creators laid a certain meaning in this symbol. 'Slipper revolution' is because they (creators of such a neologism) are trying to depict the President of Belarus as a cockroach. The well known way to get rid of a cockroach is to smash it with a slipper, you know. So the analogies are obvious. Slippers is a tool to "cleanse" the country of a president-cockroach.

Here is a photo where a woman holds a poster on which is written 'Slipper revolution', and President Lukashenko is portrayed as a cockroach, which, obviously, needs to be “smacked down”.

This is actually an interesting change. If before, various "sublime" symbols (flowers, colors) became a marker of protest movements organized from outside, than now we are talking about a purely household item that is used to remove/get rid of something that interferes. Everything is extremely practical and understandable, the extra "sublimity" and "special meaning" are removed as an unnecessary component. Slippers - to "remove" the vile cockroach. It can also be, for example, a newspaper rolled up in a tube to “slam” a fly (the object of removal will be personified/turned into a bothersome fly). It all depends on the imagination and specific tasks of the customer.

Posted by: alaff | Jun 28 2020 16:28 utc | 23

Posted by: mark | Jun 28 2020 15:44 utc | 16 John Barry...said masks were not effective in stopping the influenza pandemic.

He has no authority to say that and presents no evidence.

That interview also points out that the resistance to a lockdown during the second wave in 1918 came from the business community that only cared about the economy - just as Trump is doing today. Barry also stated that the government issued varying statements which caused distrust - exactly as it did today. When you have such distrust, you have inadequate measures, which means inadequate application and compliance with those measures - and that renders masks less effective.

You are correct that without mass testing, contact tracing and isolation of the exposed, the pandemic can not be stopped by masks alone. That doesn't mean masks are not a requirement, especially given that this country has squat for the other requirements.

"Masking now instead of complimenting physical distancing has supplanted it."

Only because morons don't comprehend that both methods are required. Probably morons didn't comprehend that in 1918, either.

To be (relatively) safe from the virus, you have to keep your hands religiously clean, washing them every time you touch something which can be presumed to be contaminated, wear a mask when near anyone, and don't stay close to anyone for any more time than absolutely necessary. The point is to apply logic to the probability of virus exposure at every level of normal living.

I occasionally have to pick things up from the floor - I always wash immediately afterward, because shoes track virus particles in, even if they probably don't live long on the floor, especially with carpet. But the point is I don't take the chance.

I don't bother with the "don't touch your face" rule while in my rooms. I avoid touching my face when out because I assume that when I touched my door knob I was exposed - even though I wear food service gloves when going out. On return, I remove the gloves first, then wash hands as the first thing I do. Then I remove my mask and since I'm touching a surface that might be contaminated - even though I'm only touching the straps - I immediately apply hand sanitizer. After that, my hands are *probably* not contaminated. My shoes slip-off so I don't have to touch them to remove them. Any packages I bring in are wiped down with hydrogen peroxide (kill viruses in 30 seconds.)

I have other procedures, but this illustrates the point. This procedure isn't foolproof. Nothing is. I could still get infected by sheer chance. But by playing the probabilities with these procedures, I assess my risk as minimal. But in the end, it remains a crapshoot - like everything in life. There is no security. But to argue that because there is no security, one should ignore procedures that improve security, makes no sense.

I have a meme which goes: "You can haz better security. You can haz worse security. But you cannot haz 'security'. There is no security. Deal."

I'm in computer security. I've learned that while there are procedures to make network penetration harder, it's impossible to keep someone out who has resources, motivation, and patience. That doesn't mean we ignore those procedures.

The same applies to this pandemic. You do what you can and hope for the best.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 28 2020 16:38 utc | 24

To those MoA barflies that still support Trump, it increasingly says more about you than the rest of us.

Here is your man in action
"
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump retweeted a video showing one of his supporters in Florida shouting “white power” at protesters of his administration, drawing an immediate rebuke from the only Black Republican in the Senate.

The video on Twitter, which was later deleted from Trump’s feed, shows Trump protesters and supporters shouting profanities at each other. After a protester calls a Trump supporter a racist, the man responds by raising his fist and shouting “white power.”

The slogan is often used by white supremacists.
"
Humanity is in a civilization war about how finance is managed (public/private) going forward and Trump represents the private camp and China represents the public camp. Racism is just one of the facets of the dying Might-Makes-Right social control meme. Humanity will either evolve or not but the cusp of decision making is upon us whether we like it or not.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 28 2020 16:40 utc | 25

From what I read, COVID deaths are also decreasing a bit because doctors are more aware of other complications, for instance use more widely antibiotics because other baddies are taking advantage of the damaged lungs, and have learned their lesson about ventilators - don't put them at max strength for days and days, this will hurt the lungs instead of helping them, instead all this has to be carefully monitored. And less crowded ICUs help as well - as seen in Vietnam, when you can put your nation's best doctors on one case, you'll have better results than if they have to deal with hundreds at the same time.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jun 28 2020 16:44 utc | 26

I saw a cartoon today that showed a chart of the rise and fall of the pandemic. It showed the peak in April and the peak now which equals the one in April and showed they were on the same line drawn between them. The blurb on the cartoon: "We've finally flattened the curve." Meaning we've undone the progress achieved by the lockdown - rendering the lockdown a failure.

Morons will now say that because the lockdown was a failure, we shouldn't have any more, ignoring the fact that the only other way to deal with the virus is mass testing, contract tracing and exposed isolation - none of which the country is doing. And as I've said repeatedly, trying to get "herd immunity" in a country with 100 million people at risk from diabetes, asthma and heart disease isn't going to work without a million or so deaths - of people of any age.

I saw a report that said the arena where Trump was having his rally had markers placed on the seats to achieve social distancing. Trump had his people remove all the markers so people could sit closer together. He was probably afraid that people spaced apart would make his rally look weak (which it was, anyway.) But this shows how Trump couldn't care less who gets infected and who dies.

Some people are now calling for Trump to resign over his incredibly bad handling of the pandemic. Failing his resignation, they want him impeached for his failure. That's a waste of time, since no narcissist clown like Trump is going to resign, and I don't see impeachment working over his lousy handling of the pandemic - certainly not before the election would make it moot, anyway, if he loses - as I suspect is likely.

The only good thing is that when some watered down version of the HEROES Bill gets passed in July or August, we'll all get another stimulus check, although it might take until the end of the year to get it. Both parties want to "buy" the election, so that portion of the bill is likely to pass. Even Trump is in favor.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 28 2020 16:53 utc | 27

Regarding the latest NYT drivel, always replace the target's name (in this case Russia) with the US. I'm sure everyone here knows that Washington DC blames others for the sins they've committed themselves.


vk | Jun 28 2020 15:46 utc | 17:

Playing the contrarian here. No politician, especially Putin, would admit it as it would make themselves look incompetent. Russia got enough crap flung their way.

Posted by: Ian2 | Jun 28 2020 17:13 utc | 28

Back in the early 80s the CIA supported the sale of crack to black communities in US (see the film, Kill The Messenger).
Incredibly harsh laws against this black epidemic were introduced so that punishment for crack became 100x the punishment for cocain (chemically the same). This was reduced in 2010 but still remains 18 times more harsh.
No surprise that Police chase blacks for crack possession and an easy bust. Added with 3 strikes a black pulled over in his car may face 25 years. Add US gunlaws and you get violent resist of arrest happening all the time and paranoid cops.
During the 80s the number of blacks in prison went from in line with whites to 5 times the white rate where it has remained. 5% of black men are in prison (or I guess about 12% of black men aged between 20 & 50).
Crack, the crack laws and US gun laws have devastated black communities.

All this BLM protests and no mention of why so many are in prison..... (it ain't about BLM.)

Posted by: Michael Droy | Jun 28 2020 17:16 utc | 29

good article
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-swift-covid-19-lockdowns-more-effective/

Posted by: Mina | Jun 28 2020 17:20 utc | 30

Regarding Vladimir Putin, Bounty Hunter:

Having read the NY Times article, I’m struck by how thin it is in objective terms, journalistically speaking. Even if one accepted the legitimacy of running self-serving, secret-state sourced pieces like this, there should at least be a story. In this article, if one were to cut away the parts where the writers admit (commendably) the things they don’t know, and all the background of Perfidious Muscovy’s alleged war on the good (which, even if one buys into it, isn’t news broken by this article), there would be barely anything left: just a naked assertion without details or narrative. And yet the mainstream media echo chamber kicks into gear completely untroubled.

I guess I’m advocating for the propagandists to at least show some pride in their work.

As for the substance of the article, meager as it is: aside from the fact that there’s no reason to believe it on the basis of this (ahem) reporting, I haven’t seen anybody point out that it’s difficult to see what policy Russia would be advancing by doing it.

If Moscow wanted to aid the Taliban in ongoing military operations, this would be an extremely inefficient use of Russian resources.

On the other hand, one could see such payments as encouraging fighters to break discipline and attack U.S. forces despite the extant U.S.-Taliban ceasefire, thus attacking both sides and thereby prolonging the war. I wouldn’t put such unsavory tactics beyond Russia (or any other state), but I find it hard to believe they’d risk poisoning relations with the future rulers of Afganistan just to give the U.S. a tiny additional impetus to do what it already specializes in without their encouragement: waging endless, no-win wars.

Still, I could be made to believe that last possibility if there were any actual reporting to support it, or even more skillful propaganda to fool me.

Posted by: David G | Jun 28 2020 17:22 utc | 31

From the TASS piece quoted by b on Afghanistan "The Russian Foreign Ministry suggested that those actions might stem from the fact that the US intelligence agencies "do not like that our and their diplomats have teamed up to facilitate the start of peace talks between Kabul and the Taliban"

The US is divided between nationalists and an anglo globalist deep state. I have started reading the Mathew Ehret articles at Strategic Culture https://www.strategic-culture.org/contributors/matthew-ehret/ Putin has said the domestic problems in the US are signs or symptoms of a much deeper problem. The last four or so articles by Ehret are about the anglo deep state that is driving the globalist agenda.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 28 2020 17:27 utc | 32

Canada’s right-leaning mainstream media have framed the Huawei extradition case as “hostage diplomacy” after the wife of a Canadian detained in China received advice that Canada’s attorney general had the power to intervene in the case at any time. So far, with Meng under house arrest for over 18 months now, the Trudeau government has insisted that the “rule of law” must take precedent and the extradition process must work through the courts. The next legal phase will see the case well into next spring. The press, and not a few politicians, are claiming if the attorney general were to intervene now, and send Meng back to China, then the Chinese will feel motivated to simply kidnap and detain Canadians at will and ransom them for favourable political demands. This argument is ubiquitous across the Canadian media landscape.

What is the end game? Surely the feds have discussed it. Would they actually hand this woman over to the Americans? The resulting shitstorm from China would not abate for decades, if ever. Are they determined to fundamentally destroy Canada’s relationship with the world’s rising power and limit Canada’s trade and economic options going forward? Many media and political figures are making the argument that Canada should do exactly that, in line with other 5 Eyes partners.

If the Trudeau government has decided to send her back but only after the legal process has completed, whether a year or longer from now, is this supposed to be the sop for the Americans - that the legal process was neutral? What if the judge rules for the extradition? An open letter signed by numerous former political figures was released this week noting the furious debate over Canada’s future relationship with China cannot proceed until the extradition mess is settled, and if Meng is handed over to the Americans there will be no point for a debate as it would have already been settled to Canada’s future detriment. This letter too was met with open derision from the media.

This slow-rolling disaster was apparently predicted by Canada’s intelligence agency, which worked up a memo outlining the global political consequences of detaining Meng, released to senior officials in the hours ahead of her arrival in Vancouver. Unfortunately, Trudeau and Freeland did not read the tea leaves, so to speak, and made the amateur mistake of letting the arrest proceed. Now they are doubling down in the hopes of portraying themselves as above the political pressure and committed only to the “rule of law”. It should be obvious to all that the extradition request was entirely political and underhanded, and that the Americans were content to place Canada in an extremely difficult position. With all the chaos south of the border, it seems that now is most opportune to get this matter quickly settled.But they are not going to do it.

Posted by: jayc | Jun 28 2020 17:58 utc | 33

snake at 12 — looks like a FF explosion (gas, oil) - goes whoosh with big orange light. Munitions explosions are more white, more showy, more bang-bang (like fireworks) and may manifest in a series - one lot blams, then some minor stock eslewhere goes off, etc. No way nukulear.

This from someone who knows nothing about explosions, just from my observations in the last 10 years (Syria, etc.)

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 28 2020 18:08 utc | 34

...Bill gets passed in July or August, we'll all get another stimulus check, although it might take until the end of the year" to get it.

Either parties can "buy" my vote, doesn't mean I'll vote for either party. I'll stay home and keep the money

Posted by: JC | Jun 28 2020 18:10 utc | 35

The site of the gas explosion east of Tehran. http://www.efreenews.com/storage/posts/June2020/25099cf8f42b7292c07f0ede71cf37c0.jpg

On google maps
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@35.6880407,51.6511208,183m/data=!3m1!1e3

The explosion looks to have occurred in front of a large shed, the fire then burning through grass or scrub back towards Tehran.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 28 2020 18:20 utc | 36

Further to my previous post, I found also this: https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-reportedly-detected-wastewater-samples-002918183.html Maybe I was wrong about the MSM(?!).

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 28 2020 18:24 utc | 37

David G | Jun 28 2020 17:22 utc | 31:

I see the Russian Foreign Ministry shares my wish for at least a little craftsmanship in our deep-state fictions:

“That unpretentious fake clearly demonstrates low intellectual abilities of US intelligence propagandists who have to invent such nonsense instead of devising something more credible.” https://m.facebook.com/RusEmbUSA/posts/1343011085909278

Posted by: David G | Jun 28 2020 18:24 utc | 38

@ 30 mina.. thanks...

@ 33 jayc... exactly right and i agree with your last sentence in particular... our leadership is truly falling down and it seems intentional... that witch freeland is a destructive force if ever there was one... trudeau is out of his league here.... they need to listen to those who wrote that letter, but they won't.... canada was put in this place via the usa and we are now between a rock and a hard place... the smart thing would be to send her back to china, but as we see - canuck politicians right now, aren't that smart....

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2020 18:27 utc | 39

@lizard | Jun 28 2020 14:34 utc | 8

the frequency of his noise-inducing commentary is itself a trollesque technique that is for some reason tolerated by the barkeep.

Thank you, I have wondered why this is going on, considering the sociopathic content.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 28 2020 18:28 utc | 40

or - just cancel the charges and forget about extraditing her.. neither of which look like it is going to happen... the politically correct approach will continue to be taken... it is a real downfall of the present political class in canada - political correctness...

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2020 18:29 utc | 41

@Jayc 33

Indeed! Trudeau is trying to hide behind process but it's obvious he's sucking US dick. Just afraid to look weak and in failing to make what should be an obvious decision just looks weaker. As if turning Meng over to the US for any reason could be in our interest is beyond stupid.
The media does by and large try and slant it as standing up to China but I have heard considerable flak as well and well framed as in the "sanctions that Meng are supposed to have violated were unilateral us sanctions and we had no reason to justify an extradition request based upon it". It seems however that reason is being trounced in favour of making it seem Canada is being independent by toeing the anti China line. Shame.

Posted by: PleaseBeleafMe | Jun 28 2020 18:40 utc | 42

Peter AU1 @32

Have you ever seen a colony of ants tending an aphid farm? The "deeper problems" are that the aphids are beginning to realize their only purpose is to serve the ants. And when this branch gets sucked dry the ants will move on, cultivate another farm of extractive slaves, and continue being who they are.

"Stroke me, stroke me..."

Posted by: vinnieoh | Jun 28 2020 18:45 utc | 43

Amusing to watch pseudo-Trudeau talk about the sanctity of Canadian "rule of law" with a straight face after making a mockery of the concept last year when he personally pressured the federal justice minister to help construction company SNC-Lavalin avoid a corruption trial. Canada is nothing but a self-deluded American lackey with respect to foreign policy. The non-5 eyes world understands this fully and sensibly refused to give it a temporary seat on the UN Security Council.

Posted by: sad canuck | Jun 28 2020 18:51 utc | 44

Posted by: jayc | Jun 28 2020 17:58 utc | 33

"...This slow-rolling disaster was apparently predicted by Canada’s intelligence agency, which worked up a memo outlining the global political consequences of detaining Meng, released to senior officials in the hours ahead of her arrival in Vancouver. Unfortunately, Trudeau and Freeland (Christina Freeland fucking Ukrinian) ... themselves as above the political pressure and committed only to the “rule of law”.

My take, since Meng Wanzhou abducted in Vancouver's airport... There was many interviews with Ren Zhengfei, Meng father’s. Zhengfei wasn't close with her daughter, but drawing closer after the abduction. China and Huawei, distinctively separate - State and Huawei and not linked together, "Andy Purdy" Huawei Chief Security Officer China dispel the notion Huawei "backdoor" shits. From all these and other interviews, info. I came to the conclusion, The regime will arrest and jailed Meng Wanzhou, China must retaliate full force, tit-for-tat against Canada, Australia and the USA regime... that will be after the 2020 election

Posted by: JC | Jun 28 2020 18:51 utc | 45

vinnieoh

Americans are brainwashed and clueless and have no idea who and what they should be fighting.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 28 2020 18:56 utc | 46

By Donald Trump's own standards and precedence, he should order a drone strike on Putin just as he did with Soleimani. Trump used intelligence from the same source in making his decision to assassinate Soleimani, so if he was consistent and not a cowardly bully, he would do to Putin what he did to Soleimani. But he won't, because he's a cowardly bully and he knows Iran can't really fight back but Russia can and would. What a sissy Fat Donny is. How is it no one has taken this sh*t out long ago all things considered? It's a miracle he's still alive.

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 28 2020 18:58 utc | 47

Posted by: sad canuck | Jun 28 2020 18:51 utc | 44

"Amusing to watch pseudo-Trudeau talk about the sanctity of Canadian "rule of law"

Excellent point! Not a bit amusing at all you missed Canada First Nation former justice minister Jody Wilson-Raybould forced to resigned in the "construction company SNC-Lavalin avoid a corruption trial"

That's why I sincerely hope the 5Eyes suffer if and when China retaliate tit-for-tat...

Posted by: JC | Jun 28 2020 19:03 utc | 48

Posted by: sad canuck | Jun 28 2020 18:51 utc | 44

"Amusing to watch pseudo-Trudeau talk about the sanctity of Canadian "rule of law"

Excellent point! Not a bit amusing at all you missed Canada First Nation former justice minister Jody Wilson-Raybould forced to resigned in the "construction company SNC-Lavalin avoid a corruption trial"

That's why I sincerely hope the 5Eyes suffer if and when China retaliate tit-for-tat...

Posted by: JC | Jun 28 2020 19:03 utc | 49

Five-eyes looks to have taken up Trump's aim to bring China down. It had kicked of under Obama, but Trump has considerably ramped up the anti china propaganda. Trudeau, Freeland (your local Rhodes scholar) swears allegiance to the British monarch and five-eyes rather than to Canada. Same here and New Zealand.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 28 2020 19:04 utc | 50

Nice. Vlad Putin is poisoning his people slowly but surely. All under the aegis of endless growth and economic development.

RUSSIA ABANDONS 30 MILLION PEOPLE IN ZONES OF ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTERS

Russian environmental protection and consumer wellbeing watchdog Rospotrebnadzor (RPN) withdrew around 30 million people from the territories considered polluted and unsafe for living.

The operation conducted overnight has nothing to do with a rescue evacuation or massive landscape cleaning. The "cleaning" has been made by the RPN head office with a stroke of a pen: The agency issued new environmental standards which increased the maximum concentration limits of hazardous substances in air and water by sixty times compared to the previous levels set up in 2009.

The RPN stroke out from the list several substances previously labelled as hazardous – such as formaldehyde, methanol, methyl mercaptan, nitrogen dioxide (CO2). The choice of the "pardoned" chemicals is not random: those substances infiltrate underground waters and enter into the air at the waste dumps.

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 28 2020 19:06 utc | 51

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 28 2020 19:04 utc | 50

Peter. It hurts me more than an average MoA. I have nephews, nieces, and sibling now in Edinburgh, HK and Australia had done my best to warned them the impending Trump's epidemic and god will not saved them.

Posted by: JC | Jun 28 2020 19:28 utc | 52

@ peter... that is a good way to put it - they swear allegiance to 5 eyes, as opposed to canada or whatever country they reside in.. on the home front trudeau is doing fine.. on foreign affairs related issues - he sucks in this instance..

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2020 19:42 utc | 53


Hi folks watch the date July 1, 2020. HK will inherit the newly pass security law and "those convicted could face life imprisonment as Beijing holds meeting to finalize a bill set to be passed immediately I believe most of the 3millions British national (overseas) (BNOs) passport holders may start emigrating to UK and anti Chinese will increases. Further other countries passports’ holders too may make hastily returned.... Australia, NZ, Canada and the freaking USA...

Bless the 5 eyes they got what they deserve..

Posted by: JC | Jun 28 2020 19:50 utc | 54

If you have time, those pieces by Matthew Ehret I've been linking to are well worth a read. For some time I have been thinking there is a five-eyes deep state that holds power over elected officials. Ehret adds a lot more to that, especially the historical side. More and more, the US is beginning to look like the dumb giant that is easily controlled by the British based anglo deep state.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jun 28 2020 19:58 utc | 55

Re: Huawei executive and Canada

AFAIK, I don't believe Trudeau is in control. Most leaders these days are just talking heads on TV for the unwashed masses. It appears there are some sane people left in the Canadian bureaucracy seeing how a CSIS report was allowed to be revealed to the public. Canada is caught between two giants fighting in the sand box. It's China or US. Maybe Canada should talk to the Singaporeans or the Turks.

Unfortunately for Canada, the damage done is much worse than most would want to admit. I can guarantee that all corporate executives are taking a hard look at the consequences whenever traveling abroad, especially to the US and their vassal states. The best that Canada can hope for is getting business deals with other nations doing business directly with China. Table scraps.

I would be surprised if the second appeal succeeds. Canada doesn't want to risk their economic standing with the US. The only way for this Huawei exec to return home is if the US disintegrate as a nation (as I can't see them dropping the request), giving Canada the excuse that the US order is no longer valid.




james @41:

I don't believe this is a case of political correctness, unless you were thinking of the letter of the law being used against the spirit of the law, which I believe is the case.

Posted by: Ian2 | Jun 28 2020 20:07 utc | 56

JC 54

From what I make of it, with the new laws, China can prosecute those who are working for or with foreign powers. One of those clowns has moved from HK to Australia - there was bit of an article where he was lauded as some sort of resistance hero - and others have fled to Taiwan.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 28 2020 20:10 utc | 57

What is the claim based on that chances for a good vaccine are small? And is it necessary to have a good vaccine? If you have a vaccine which works sufficiently to stop contagiousness in 2/3 of the cases then you can get herd immunity. If you have a vaccine with considerable nonlethal illness as a side effect you can give it to target groups: at the least prisons, meat processing, elderly other superspreader nodes. The threshold for a 'good vaccine' is pretty high because you want to give it to 8 billion people with minimal side effects. But a modest vaccine has value.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jun 28 2020 20:14 utc | 58

More destruction, suffering and death in the name of economic development and endless growth. ALL developed and developing countries are guilty and have a hand in it. Fyi, the publication, South China Morning Post, is owned by the Alibaba Group so this isn't the West bashing Russia, it's Beijing bashing Russia.

In This Russian City, Air Pollution Is So Bad That ‘Black Skies’ Are The Norm

The air pollution in Krasnoyarsk is brought about by Soviet-era factories and coal-fired power plants. The city’s woes are emblematic of the wider environmental danger in Siberia, where climate change is melting the permafrost and burning one of the world’s biggest forests.

A Russian city nestled in the vast Siberian forest– 2,000 miles and four times zones east of Moscow – has air so bad that the authorities regularly warn people to stay inside.

During frequent “black sky” events, caused by Soviet-era factories and coal-fired power plants, Krasnoyarsk has clocked the dirtiest air on the planet, beating out Mumbai and Guangzhou.

The record temperatures in Siberia this year mean the city may not get any respite this summer, with the forest fire season forecast to start in late June, a month ahead of usual.

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 28 2020 20:24 utc | 59

58

Russia seem to believe they will have a vaccine in the not too distant future but they are not relying totally on a vaccine. They locked everything down for a short period while building new covid19 hospitals and now look to be allowing the disease to spread at a controlled rate every patient gets best possible care. Perhaps a safer way to go than try to stop the disease completely until a vaccine is found.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 28 2020 20:27 utc | 60

Tuyzenfloot @58

A vaccine, even if one is found quickly and to be safe, may have limited effectiveness. Early indications are not great w.r.t. recovered patients maintaining high levels of antibodies. There were a couple of articles over the last two weeks re: the topic. Here's one:

A new study from China showed that antibodies faded quickly in both asymptomatic and symptomatic COVID-19 patients during convalescence, raising questions about whether the illness leads to any lasting immunity to the virus afterward.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/06/chinese-study-antibodies-covid-19-patients-fade-quickly

Posted by: snow_watcher | Jun 28 2020 20:30 utc | 61

Interesting about Covid-19.

- Virus found in sewage in Italy in mid-December.

- Past articles showed virus had been found in x-rays in France in mid-November. Other articles suggest virus in Belgium in mid-November as well.

- Past articles suggested U.S. Defense Intelligence warning allies about virus in Wuhan in mid-November.

So a question? How did the virus manage to jump from Wuhan to Europe, in a completely mutated form, two months before Wuhan was locked down, and yet not spread to the rest of China first?

My answer. It doesn't make sense. What does make sense is that there were stocks of the virus, in different locations, waiting for the signal to be released.

Posted by: dh-mtl | Jun 28 2020 20:30 utc | 62

=/ RSH is a self-admitted transhumanist sociopath who regularly expresses his desire to see people hurt and killed, thinks anyone who doesn't agree with him is a troll, but he also wants you to wear a mask to keep everyone safe./= --
lizard | Jun 28 2020 14:34 utc | 8

Well, not all of us are perfect like you. I look forward to the Hack comments. Even though he has a proclivity to say things he doesn't actually mean. You want a perfect world? Time to call a moving company.

Posted by: blues | Jun 28 2020 20:32 utc | 63

one could see such payments as encouraging fighters to break discipline and attack U.S. forces despite the extant U.S.-Taliban ceasefire,...
David G | Jun 28 2020 17:22 utc

David made clear that this is a hypothetical that he discusses only as a point to argue something else.

Still, the article was sufficiently well written that it made clear that no American soldiers were killed after the ceasefire with Taliban in February. There article is actually clear that the evidence is thinner than the air at the highest peaks in Afghanistan (which are pretty high), so anyone with some mental faculties (meaning, pitifully small minority of the readers, although THAT estimate is based on the comments and recommends that were probably manipulated) can figure it out.

On the other hand, for people who treat our media with some trust, Russians are incredible bunglers. The unit that supervised the bounties (or most probably among the Russian intelligence units) is also attributed with failed assassination of Skripals, three (!!??) failed poisoning attempts on a Bulgarian weapon manufacturers and a failed coup in Montenegro, and now, additionally it is credited with a scheme to kill American soldiers that did not result in any killing, but in a wad of American currency found in a Taliban outpost. I guess that the full name of the unit is Boris & Natasha Ltd.

Russian (alleged) scheme to split Catalonia from Spain and another, to have Bernie Sanders win primaries, failed too. One could write an article summarizing that record to conclude that because of indefatigable efforts of our intelligence agencies and their apt allies (yes, Australia, you can bask in glory as well), we can sleep in peace.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 28 2020 20:36 utc | 64

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 28 2020 20:10 utc | 57

Yes, from my reading and understanding, China and NOT HK will prosecute those using foreign funds, separation, independent etc. There are crooks and frauds escaped China to HK and to Australia, Canada, NZ and USA. This is a mini extradition law HK failed to pass earlier when Joseph Wong and company fought against it.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/self-confessed-chinese-spy-has-assets-frozen-in-3m-court-battle-20200131-p53wgv.html

Posted by: JC | Jun 28 2020 21:09 utc | 65

@blues,

did I claim to be perfect? no. did I say RSH makes no worthwhile comments? no. did I write up a hypothetical sociopath threat mitigation program? well actually yes.

yes I did.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 28 2020 21:39 utc | 66

Foolish young man @6

Check if it's a fact first. Right now, it isn't. It's not been reviewed and passed for publication. It would be a major surprise if it were left unedited, seeing that there is insufficient margin with the replications and that the target sequence is common to different viruses. Anything medical you ever read from some journalist or other (and most of what you are told by physicians, too) is always garbage unless proved otherwise.

Posted by: Piero Colombo | Jun 28 2020 21:55 utc | 67

b links to a story from the BBC about the man in Vietnam that spent 90 days intensive care being saved by the extraordinary efforts of Vietnamese health staff. Note this twist in the BBC story:

The Buddha bar cluster, as it became known in the local press, was the single biggest outbreak of coronavirus in south Vietnam, infecting nearly 20 people both indirectly and directly.

South Vietnam ! no BBC, it is a united nation now and you are only 45 years out of date. What a regressive clapped out journalism that is.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 28 2020 21:56 utc | 68

vk #17

Can we stop with this bioweapon nonsense now?

Sure we can, I will pass the message on to Larry Romanoff

Primary page

Guns n butter interview April 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKVnIxQzfvs

Information Clearing House March 2020 http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/54044.htm

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 28 2020 22:09 utc | 69

Piotr Berman | Jun 28 2020 20:36 utc | 63:

Yeah, for the mental exercise if nothing else, I try to imagine a scenario in which the Russians might have done this. As you say, if the “bounties” have been on offer during the ceasefire, they have had no effect. The Times article is vague enough that it leaves open it might be referring to a pre-ceasefire time frame, but then we’re back to it being a stupid way to try to support the Taliban militarily.

Back in the real world, Scott Ritter, noting the real Russia wants the U.S. out of Afghanistan, suggests the report originated from the Afghan security agency (NDS), was picked up by the CIA, and turned into a junk intelligence product good enough for the NY Times, the motive being an attempt to sabotage the (putative) U.S. withdrawal and generally mess with Trump. https://www.rt.com/op-ed/493174-nyt-report-russia-afghanistan/

Posted by: David G | Jun 28 2020 23:25 utc | 70

Russia pays Taliban to kill U.S. troops

The 'deep state' spits this stuff out anonymously because they know that our sheep in the NYT, WaPo, and WSJ will publish it without criticism and the sheep reporting it on news shows will accept it without fact.

Critical thinking: comparing motives
The deep state hates Trump's plan to withdraw troops from Germany, Afghanistan, re-admit Russia to the G7 (making it the G8), and wants to stir up conflict with Russia.
Russia: Motives
- Piss off their EU customers so that they will pay a premium to buy US / Qatar LNG instead of Russian NG?
- Derail Trump's plan to withdraw from Afghanistan, Germany, get back into the G7/8, and my favorite from CNN's 'Russia Expert' Putin is a tactician not a strategist (ie. Putin is really dumb).
- Russia wants to provoke a U.S. retaliation for us to kill their troops.

Since there is no rational motive for Russia to do this but their are motives for the 'unnamed sources' to like or exaggerate their claims our MSM should question this tall tale.

I love the outrage by commentators, 'If Trump was not informed then someone should be fired'. Note, our idiotic MSM accepts the premise as a fact.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jun 28 2020 23:35 utc | 71

... Russia pays Taliban motives cont.

To be fair there is one plausible motive given by Gordon Duff by Veterans Today https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/06/28/the-nasty-truth-behind-the-russian-ordered-hit-on-american-troops-and-the-trump-coverup/ for Russia to do this. He claims it was payback for the 150 Russians we killed in Syria as well as to deter the Mad Donald from doing this again. If this account is true then it would have been logical for Russia to call off the hit once the Mad Donald got the message and stopped attacking Russians in Syria.

BTW I don't know what to make of Veterans Today, it's on the very end of the spectrum of what I am willing to read before I consider a website too far out there but it does have a good article every once in a while, and yeah, it's kind of a guilty pleasure even when it doesn't.

I still think the balance of evidence favors this being U.S. deep state misinformation.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jun 28 2020 23:54 utc | 72

Australian McCarthyism https://consortiumnews.com/2020/06/26/mccarthyism-down-under/

Any politician that voices dissent on the attempt to take down China will be removed
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-27/shaoquett-moselmane-centre-of-china-spying-investigation/12397002

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 28 2020 23:57 utc | 73

Haven't read the article in french that I link to now:

https://www.agoravox.fr/tribune-libre/article/ghislaine-maxwell-rabatteuse-de-225385

but I'm off to bed.

The title says: Ghislaine Maxwell lives in a very luxury appartment in Paris,at a few minutes distance from both the 8.6 million dollars Epstein property and its neighbour the Israeli Embassy.

International criminals usually live in Paris,where Interpol always looks on the wrong side,inspector Clouseau heads it.

Posted by: willie | Jun 28 2020 23:59 utc | 74

On Afghanistan Caitlin Chimes in.

Posted by: arby | Jun 29 2020 0:32 utc | 75

Funny how when Snow_Watcher @ 18 posts those Coronavirus Update figures at the Worldometers information site, the figures for Belgium (following a lockdown policy) always seem to be left out of the comparisons with Sweden (non-lockdown policy).

Indeed if you re-order the spreadsheet listing to rank all countries by total deaths per million head of population, Belgium ranks No 2 and Sweden ranks No 7.

Belgium total cases / million = 5,289
Sweden total cases / million = 6,450

Belgium deaths / million = 840
Sweden deaths / million = 523

The two countries are more comparable with similar-sized populations and somewhat similar demographics (in both countries, about 25% of the population is either foreign-born or has at least one foreign-born parent).

In Sweden, the highest numbers of deaths have been among people aged 70+ years with the age group 80 - 90 years being the most prominent. Most of these deaths occurred in aged care homes which are run on a privatised business model under which several hundred patients may be housed in the one care facility. Care workers in such facilities are employed on contracts and are often drawn from refugee and immigrant communities where access to information on COVID-19 is poor. Many workers also work at more than one aged care place, helping to spread the virus though they may be asymptomatic.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 29 2020 1:01 utc | 76

Jayc @33
You're obviously not familiar with Canada/US extradition cases; they can go on for a loooong time and some lawyers make alot of money.
As for the 2 Canadians facing espionage charges in China, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck etc.

Posted by: TdeL | Jun 29 2020 1:19 utc | 77

FLASH NEWS BULLETIN!!!

Americans pay their government to lie to them through major news media! Although it's been ongoing for decades, some are just now getting the message! But then, that's only some. And polling data shows demonstratively that a majority of the American public still find the national government and major media credible--but just barely. Many are incensed at this recent data and continue to rebel; but against what specifically, they have no unified answer.

If honest reporting from major media actually became the norm, would we believe it?

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2020 1:20 utc | 78

Posted by: lizard | Jun 28 2020 21:39 utc | 65

In light of your desire for a "solution" (possibly "Final"?) to the psychopath problem, I commend to you the following texts, all of which I have on my hard drive (although not all have been read) and all of which are available on Amazon:

Psychopaths – October 15, 1973, by Alan Harrington - this one you'll really like, since he recommends a program to allow psychopaths and "normals" to get along. I haven't read this one, but I read his "The Immortalist" - which I consider the most important book ever written, as it establishes the basic concept of Transhumanism - that death is "the root of all evil" - and all human behavior.

Wisdom of Psychopaths Paperback – September 3, 2013, by Kevin Dutton

The Good Psychopath's Guide to Success: How to use your inner psychopath to get the most out of life – July 12, 2014, by Kevin Dutton and Andy McBab (a former SAS soldier)

Romancing the Shadow: A Guide to Soul Work for a Vital, Authentic Life – February 2, 1999, by Connie Zweig and Steven Wolf (How to get in touch with your inner "Shadow".)

Be Slightly Evil: A Playbook for Sociopaths, by Venkatesh Rao, described as "the author of the widely read ribbonfarm.com blog" - which I haven't seen.

The Psychopath Whisperer: The Science of Those Without Conscience Paperback – April 21, 2015, by Kent A. Kiehl PhD

And these two in particular:

The Psychopath's Bible: For the Extreme Individual 2nd Edition, by Christopher S. Hyatt and Nicholas Tharcher
The Psychopath's Notebook – October 29, 2018, by Christopher S. Hyatt

I especially commend this fiction book:
The Gemini Man Paperback – February 2, 1999, by Richard Steinberg
This book is unrelated to the recent movie. The book is described thus (ignore the publisher hype):


His genesis was inevitable. His intelligence is beyond our comprehension. His agenda is unknown. The Gemini Man is among us. At the end of a century of exponential growth, horrifying destruction, and accelerated evolution, only the fittest will survive his arrival. His time is now. One part Robert Ludlum with two parts Thomas Harris and brilliantly wrapped in a Darwinian high concept,The Gemini Man is a dazzling debut thriller from an extremely gifted and daring young writer. With a power-packed narrative drive and an absolutely engrossing cast of characters, it is destined to become one of the most talked-about books of the year. U.S. Brigadier General Alexander Beck found Brian Newman on the brink of court-martial. Knowing what a weapon this man could be, Beck trained him to live by his instincts and directed his development as a top dual-purpose covert operative. Code-named Gemini, Newman offered up his innocence and Beck dropped him into the most heated political battle in history. But after delivering a debilitating blow to the Soviet Union that sealed a Cold War victory for the grand old flag, Beck left him for dead. But the Gemini Man survived. The most lethal human fallout from the most catastrophic of centuries has been waiting to return home. Six years of contemplation in solitary confinement in a frozen Russian gulag taught him well. And at long last, Beck negotiates to bring his discovery in from the cold. Sent to an isolated psychiatric research facility for "de-briefing," Newman must play cat and mouse with a brilliant female psychiatrist long enough to enact his hidden agenda. But does the Gemini Man know who he really is? If he does, he must die. And if he doesn't, he'll have to die anyway. For if Brian Newman is set free, our days are numbered. And his time is now.
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The book hypothesizes an extreme version of what Alan Harrington and the other books do: that psychopaths are on the increase - and that it is the result of essentially a "mutation" of the human mind under the stresses of "civilization".

Here's a long excerpt:


Newman stood there for a moment, then visibly relaxed. He walked over and collapsed into the chair. "The establishment is composed of three
elements, right?"

"If you say so."

Newman arched his eyebrows at her response, as if it surprised him. "I do."

He seemed to be thinking as he talked.

"At the lowest level, you have the masses. The losers, the people Nietzsche called 'the failed and the lost.' People who live their lives through a constant series of failures. Never attaining even a glimpse of whatever their goals might be.

"At the next level are the users. People who take the failed and the lost and use them for fodder. They own factories, cities, countries sometimes. And, due to their skill at manipulating the lowest level, they rise to this middle point. They have attained some of their goals, realized some of their dreams. But they never quite get it all. Like an Oreo without the filling."

Patricia made some notes.

"But I thought Nietzsche didn't believe in a middle class?"

Newman looked at her scornfully. "Nietzsche was talking theory. I'm talking reality."

"My apologies," she said with a smile. "And the highest level of the establishment is?"

"What was your theory about me?"

"I wouldn't want to be accused of distracting you. You don't seem to handle that well." She flipped back some pages in her notebook. "We have the failed and the lost on the bottom, the users in the middle, and "The masters," he said, returning to his professorial voice. "They have it all. Either from birth or through hard work coupled with an admirable lack of ethics. They own or control everything. They don't strive for a dream; they are the dream. They decided how things are going to be, and they're never wrong."

"They're omnipotent?"

Newman nodded. "If you own everything, control everything, you make the rules. And the one who makes the rules is never wrong."

" so, " she said conversationally, "where do you fail in this rather
impressive hierarchy?"

"What was your theory about me?"

"it would only bore you. It seems to me that this establishment you've described would be constantly at odds. The bottom level fighting the users. The users chafing at the dictums from the masters."

Newman nodded. "Take a look around lately? The establishment is more than fraying at the seams."

"But you still haven't told me where you fit in this grand scheme of things."

"And you haven't told me what your theory about me IS.

Patricia put down her pad and looked him in the eyes. "I'll show you mine if .

"I show you mine. Deal." He leaned forward and began gesturing with his hands.

"You have three massively disparate structures. Each with significantly different, often conflicting goals. Each pulling against the other two,
threatening to topple the whole edifice. Right?"

"Okay."

"So, the only thing that keeps it all together, the one common band, the thread, the glue as it were "As it were," she parroted back to him.

He gave her an irritated look.

"The thing that holds them all together is their hate. A commonly expressed, mutually held, deep, all-abiding hatred for the same thing." He paused, taking a sip of water.

"And that one unifying force," he continued after a moment, "is the deviant. The night rider. The thing that goes bump in the night."

"Very poetic," Patricia said with a chuckle. He ignored her.

"All levels of the establishment despise the deviant equally. His independence, his ability to put himself above the rules, because he knows that he is above their stupid rules."

"So," she said, "you consider yourself a deviant."

Newman held up a restraining hand.

"The establishment considers me a deviant." He paused. "I prefer the night rider analogy, personally."

"I thought you might." Patricia smiled. "You were saying they all hate the deviant?"

He nodded. "The lowest level because they don't have the guts to do what he does. The users because the deviant represents the most direct threat to their piece of the pie.

"And the masters?" Patricia asked.

"They know they can't control him. Not fully. They can punish, execute, condemn all they want, but they can never completely control him. And control is what the masters are all about."

He smiled at her triumphantly.

"By having the deviant around, they all have the opportunity to vent their anger against a common foe and not each other." He laughed. "Hell, without me, the establishment would crumble from its own weight."


Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 29 2020 1:39 utc | 79

Efficacy of Masks

Dr. Denis Rancourt is a physics professor and member of the Ontario Civil Liberties Union.

He’s known for examining prominent claims made by the establishment and subjecting them to scientific inquiry. He is not aligned with the left or right or centre and he does not promote a political agenda.

He recently released a paper claiming that face masks provide no protection against COVID-19:
Masks Don't Work: A review of science relevant to COVID-19 social policy

I’ve had a laugh at the expense of people who claim masks are useless but I am now forced to consider that maybe it’s me who got it wrong.

I don’t know what the truth is on the mask question...and for now that is my position.

Would be very interested in knowing what b and commentators here make of Rancourt’s findings.

Further info: An interview with Denis Rancourt can be found at the Dissident Voice website

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 29 2020 1:56 utc | 80

Peter AU 1 @ 60:

Your comment suggests that Russia might be moving back to a Soviet-style model (still retained in Belarus) in which certain hospitals specialised in treating infectious diseases and trained all their medical, nursing and ancillary staff accordingly. Presumably they were also supplied with special protective clothing and equipment to minimise the spread of disease.

The UK was supposed to have done something similar with the recent Nightingale hospitals but that idea was a flop due to lack of staff and funding.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 29 2020 2:01 utc | 81

karlof1 @76, I take your post about about 'duh everyone knows American News Media lies (synopsis)' as sarcasm directed at me. I wish it was true that a slim majority of Americans still believe the MSM but the vast majority is greatly influenced by them.

Examples, if you poll Americans at which countries are a big threat to the U.S., Iran, Russia, N.Korea and China fluctuate wildly based on who our corrupt foreign policy establishment is attacking at the moment. So while the U.S. public distrusts the MSM in the abstract, they still absorb their poisonous fruit.
Let me mourn I am not pretending to have a brand new revelation but as an Engineer I see this as a system that is incapable of correcting itself so it bothers me. If something is bad but I see a possibility that it can get better it does not bother me as much but this feedback is perfectly broken.

1. Deep state lies to MSM. 2. MSM accepts lies uncritically, 3. public never punishes liars in group 1 or 2 because hey, they are attacking Iranians, Russians, Chinese ... who cares about them.

The only way this changes is for us to lose a war ... fan-damn-tastic.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jun 29 2020 2:09 utc | 82

The UK falls in line like a good patsy...

Russia paid Taliban-linked fighters to attack British troops - as senior Tory MP seeks answers

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-paid-taliban-fighters-to-attack-british-troops-in-afghanistan-12016425

This COVID issue is slowly dawning on people and the impacts and costs will be significant...

Risk of never fully recovering after coronavirus ‘very real,’ scientists say

https://globalnews.ca/news/7111094/coronavirus-scientists-health-problems/

America, the pariah state is getting walled off from the rest of the world.

With reference to my comment at #18, younger people are quickly getting infected, I should add that the large gatherings in the form of protests across the nation are also a key vector.

Posted by: snow_watcher | Jun 29 2020 2:15 utc | 83

Dear b, don't be afraid for me. I am 73 years on this ride. I have a whole lot more to say. And it will be 100X stranger than this. Promise.

=/ did I claim to be perfect? no. did I say RSH makes no worthwhile comments? no. did I write up a hypothetical sociopath threat mitigation program? well actually yes. /= -
lizard | Jun 28 2020 21:39 utc | 65

What do you really know about the sociopathic condition?

I am a former autistic person. It was not just Asperger's, it was all-out not-able-to-talk autism. This is incredibly rare. It is mostly because I took enormous doses of psychedelic chemicals. And I have often encountered sociopathic individuals, of course, sometimes disastrously, sometimes not-so-bad.

Typically, sociopathic people have 'no remorse' -- that's the salient symptom. Slightly more generally, they do not, for example, understand the concept of 'time' in the usual sense. They do understand it intellectually, but not viscerally. This is something (perhaps the only thing) they have in common with autistic people. They are fully atemporal, so there is no such thing as the 'past' for them. So no point in honoring any agreements made in the (non-existent) past. There is no such thing as the 'future' for them. So there is no need for them to worry about addiction if they consume addictive chemicals. This is all on the visceral, not intellectual level. On an intellectual level they understand these things perfectly. But they just do not have visceral comprehension, so these things are only comprehensible in an abstract, intellectual manner.

'We' neurotypical folks have this concept of 'good and evil'. This is an instinctive illusion, but it's necessary from a purely pragmatic perspective. So we tend to place the sociopathic people in our illusory category of 'evil'. Which is not really all that pragmatic, most of the time.

I am not quite normal yet. I still have some superhuman abilities. But another time for that.

Anyhow, Hack is not actually sociopathic. If he was he would not be here. The payoff is nowhere near big enough. I probably do understand a lot of where he is coming from. That is for me to know and the rest of the world to find out. As usual.

Posted by: blues | Jun 29 2020 2:50 utc | 84

re willie | Jun 28 2020 23:59 utc | 73
Thanks for the link, but the article after making the point that this story is unlikely to be run in the french corporate press links to a Sun articleas the source for ghislaine maxwell's location.
The only question is, since the sun is the lowest murdoch rag of them all, has rupert ditched the zionists? unlikely as zionists make up a sizeable chunk of his investment base. Are the zionists pissed with Maxwell? possible but since she's living in what is most likely an israeli hidey hole they could knock her or snatch her at any time without any noise. Maybe murdoch is just pissed with ghislane? anything is possible but this is clumsy way of showing it as she is bound to skip to the next 5 star refuge asap on hearing about the article. Is it all bullshit either she never stayed there or cleared out before the story ran and this is disinformation from the occupiers of Palestine - that is the most probable answer IMO.

Posted by: A User | Jun 29 2020 3:06 utc | 85

The best way to deal with the annoying creep is to ignore it - all of it. Its complaint is more likely to be bipolar which we have seen here a few times before and most of us wouldn't comment on but this example is so anti human that it doesn't deserve consideration.
It only has about half a dozen riffs repeated over and over again. hence the days absolutely full of nonsense posts on the same old riffs, as well as another indicator, when in full flight, the posts are made at like 4.00am SF time. Then a coupla days go by with nothing, then one or two posts, building up to a thread overflowing with its nonsense into the wee wee hours SF time then a coupla days blessed silence. Then the cycle starts again.

Any response - yep, including this one, will encourage it. I figure just this once more stirring it up is worth the likely flood of bitter nonsense if even just a few others decide to try ignoring it as well. Yeah yeah there is that script around somewhere that allows one to set a poster to 'ignore' but that is more hassle than the creep is worth easier just to do it manually. It's not as if it uses flavoursome bait, it is all dross we'v heard many times before & is easy to pass by without comment.

Posted by: A User | Jun 29 2020 3:37 utc | 86

Posted by: A User | Jun 29 2020 3:06 utc | 82

I have seen it suggested that the point of such articles is to keep the blackmailees obedient. And it general when MSM brings up Epstein etc., that's supposed to be why. I don't know it that's true or not, but as an idea it works.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 29 2020 1:56 utc | 78

I read Mr. Rancourt, most of it, and did not find him particularly persuasive, he speaks much to categorically for one thing, about things that don't look all that categorical to me, like this virus for example, which we are still figuring out. Masks seem far from being a general solution to COVID-19, not perfect by any means, but there is a lot of evidence to suggest that are not useless. I think much the same sort of thinking applies to the "social distancing" idea too, a blunt instrument, but not entirely useless. The people in China & SE Asia seem to have gotten rather good results with them both. So, he did seem to me to have an agenda.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 29 2020 3:45 utc | 87

Posted by: blues | Jun 29 2020 2:50 utc | 81 This is all on the visceral, not intellectual level.

That is an interesting point. I suspect there is some mislabeling of things going on.

Are psychopaths people who "are" psychopaths, i.e., they behave as they do because of a particular genetic or biochemical propensity? Or do they "become" psychopathic because of life experiences? What about if someone were to *philosophically* conclude through a chain of logical reasoning to "become" or behave in a way that *others mistake* for what they think is psychopathy?

I should cite Max Stirner here. He reasoned out the basis for individualist anarchism. Was he psychopathic to begin with? Did he acquire it from life experience (like the recent movie, "The Joker")? Was he psychopathic at all? Or is it just that other people don't agree with him?

Most psychological disorders are merely lists of "symptoms" or behaviors that are generally related to whether the "patient" can function in "normal" society, which in the end boils down to whether he respects conventional morality and legal mores. There's a lot of room for philosophical disagreement in that process, as Thomas Szasz has argued, IIRC. Not to mention the Marquis de Sade, who cogently argued that "morality" and "social mores" have varied so radically over the centuries as to be virtually meaningless.

"Anyhow, Hack is not actually sociopathic. If he was he would not be here. The payoff is nowhere near big enough."

Got that right! LOL

I like to describe myself as a combination of Star Trek's Mister Spock and Heath Ledger's Joker. That is to say, "logical anarchist." I started out in high school as an Ayn Rand Objectivist. Over the years, I discovered Rand's philosophy wasn't nearly as coherent as she and her followers pretended it was. First, I discovered her "limited state" stance was insupportable based on her own adherence to Austrian economics. The state is a monopoly - and all monopolies are coercive (except the very rare and usually unsupportable "natural monopolies" - which the state is not demonstrably.) Thus I became an anarchist. Years later, I discovered Robert Anton Wilson's and others arguments against the notion of "natural rights". I also ran into Aleister Crowley. Eventually I ran into the Situationists, and then the individualist anarchists and finally Nietzsche and Max Stirner, and since then several philosophers who have argued against morality and moral responsibility.

However, I wouldn't discount life experiences as an influence, since mine have been generally crap since kindergarten. So I suspect a combination of predisposition to rebellion due to events of my youth, followed by my time in the US Army during Vietnam, followed by my experiences in corporate America, and finally the prison system as a result of an aborted attempt at actual rebellion. My time in prison gave me ample opportunity to go deep in philosophical analysis and come up with a coherent, fact-based philosophy, which has subsequently been refined by my post-prison reading.

And here we are. I suspect most people went to high school, then college, did most of their philosophical "development" based on what teachers and books they read in college, and have ossified their thinking ever since, force-fitting everything since into their rigid philosophical templates, whether it be Marxism, socialism, neoliberalism, fascism, religion, or whatever.

I am well past all that and can not be strapped down someone else's "bed of Procrustes".

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 29 2020 3:55 utc | 88

@ 56 ian2... it is a bit of that - letter of the law, verses spirit of the law and also that trudeau and most politicians for that matter strike me as politically correct types.. this is one of the reasons trump was so refreshing.. not anymore, but when he first came on the scene, he is happy to stick his foot in his mouth and when asked will willingly admit his foot is in his ass, lol... he is that kind of a guy - not politically correct.. trudeau on the other hand doesn't have the jam to be politically correct, so he finds himself in politically incorrect positions all the time!

@ 81 blues.. thanks for your personal note... i think i am with @ 83 a users description of the situation.. i have a high threshold of tolerance generally except for bullshit.. it seems i skip over rsh's posts and can them coming like the one @77 before scrolling down to see who wrote it.. oh well..

Posted by: james | Jun 29 2020 4:05 utc | 89

meant trudeau doesn't have the jam to be politically ''incorrect''..

Posted by: james | Jun 29 2020 4:07 utc | 90

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 29 2020 1:56 utc | 78

Reading it now. I tend to agree with Bemildred. He just points to some review articles and asserts that masks don't work. I don't have time to look at every one of those review articles and then every study *they* look at and then try to determine if the review article authors are correct. I suspect that was his intention - to deflect from the fact that most experts don't agree with him, regardless of what the review studies state.

His second point is that the spread of influenza of any kind is humidity dependent, and therefore no measures such as lockdowns or masks can possibly work. This is just hand-waving. The logic does not follow from the premise.

This statement of his is simply extraordinary: "All of this to say that: if anything gets through (and it always does, irrespective of the mask), then you are going to be infected."

This completely contradicts *any* notion of using a mask for *any* reason. Which leaves one to wonder why hospitals bother with them at all. Again, he contradicts the last hundred years or so of medical science.

He then lists a series of questions to which he claims there are no answers and all of which are loaded with fear-inducing concepts suggesting that masks are far more dangerous than not wearing masks.

People might want to read the comments here:
[flagged] Masks Don’t Work: A Review of Science Relevant to Covid-19 Social Policy (rcreader.com)

Example:


kasey_junk 5 days ago

This is a particularly insidious form of advocacy because it mimics the writing of a scientific article while presenting a political opinion.

I stopped checking after the 4th linked journal article. All 4 had their results were misrepresented in the article. Not one suggested that masks didn’t work. 2 showed they did work, 1 showed there wasn’t much difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks and 1 was a small sample size result that showed family spread amongst 2 families, 1 who wore masks outside and one who didn’t.

Further they were a mix of respiratory illnesses mentioned. Colds, flues and SARS were all mixed and matched.

Thats before we get into the dubious claim that there was a 100% infection rate if any aerosolized droplets got through the mask.

reply
hilbert42 5 days ago

"This is a particularly insidious form of advocacy because it mimics the writing of a scientific article while presenting a political opinion."

"Not one suggested that masks didn’t work. 2 showed they did work."

You're right, if I hadn't been reading the research papers on the matter over the past few weeks I reckon I'd likely be fooled (at least in some parts).

Dr Rancourt points out that: "The main transmission path is long-residence-time aerosol particles (< 2.5 μm), which are too fine to be blocked, and the minimum-infective dose is smaller than one aerosol particle."

What he fails to mention is how N95/P2 masks actually work. From my reading, these masks are made by stretching the plastic sheet until they start to part and form into string-like strands/fibers with gaps between them. He's right, the gaps are wider than 2.5 μm (somewhere around 5 μm) but the hidden factor is that the stretching of the plastic causes electrostatic charges to permanently form on the plastic through deformation somewhat akin to the way the charge is formed on an electrect microphone and it is these charges that attract the aerosol particles which then collect on the plastic strands.

It seems Dr Rancourt's search of the literature was insufficiently deep (seems it's another instance of a non-expert in the field stepping above his station).

The most disconcerting aspect of Rancourt's report is the statement that it only takes one virion particle to infect a human. It was my understanding that the figure was considerably higher than this. If his quoted figure is correct then N95 mask won't work as they're only about 95% effective.

Until we get more definitive information on this I'll continue to wear my N95 masks in public.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 29 2020 4:12 utc | 91

Posted by: james | Jun 29 2020 4:05 utc | 86 i skip over rsh's posts

No one is asking you to read them. I tend to avoid reading all the crap posts here asserting opinions that in my view are utter bullcrap. I expect others to do the same to mine.

What I object to is *trolls* whose whole purpose here appears to be bitching about my posts because they don't like my opinions. Like the fake "oldhippie" and that Iranian idiot.

Fuck 'em. Until b tells me to stop posting or I decide I've got better things to do, I'll keep posting. As I assume the trolls will, as well. I post because it helps me organize my own thoughts on various topics.

I also like to contribute what I believe are factually correct links which might provide a clearer picture of what is going on - such as the stuff on the coronavirus. It was b's posts on that subject that led me back here after a long absence and my posts are intended to supplement his valuable information.

I suspect a lot of the problem some people have with me is that I support b's approach to that subject, and they don't.

Again, fuck 'em.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 29 2020 4:20 utc | 92

Christian J. Chuba @80--

Actually, I came onto the thread for a Drive-by aimed aimlessly as with a traditional '80s B vs C mow-em-down regardless of who they are. Like Carlin, I aimed at everyone and no one.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2020 4:29 utc | 93

@ james | Jun 29 2020 4:05 utc | 86

It is very important for everybody to understand that sociopathy is a real thing, which can take a major bite out of your whole life. The other thing is that this is a strictly neurological affliction, and a real disability at the end of the day. People who bash their skulls in auto accidents sometimes go full socio.

Our buddy Hack does not have that condition. If his ranting disturbs you, then perhaps it is time to pull away from the keyboard, and venture out into the harsh ultraviolet sunlight. There's a lot more worse things you might encounter. Such as going to your dearest friend's house and finding her dead, which recently happened to me.

Oh, I think I can handle a sharp-edged comenter. No problem at all, really.

Posted by: blues | Jun 29 2020 4:30 utc | 94

@ 91 blues... like i said - i just skip over the posts or posters that i am not interested in reading... are you familiar with bi-polar?? i think a user is on the right track.. cheers..

Posted by: james | Jun 29 2020 4:40 utc | 95

Don't know if this has been posted before, I don't remember seeing it, but here's some coronavirus "myth-busting" from a trauma doctor.

COVID-19 Mythbusting

b should probably just refer the morons to that page.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 29 2020 4:42 utc | 96

@ 89 rsh... keep on keeping on... some will read you, and some won't and some will do a bit of both... you're wrong in your last major sentence... cheers..

Posted by: james | Jun 29 2020 4:43 utc | 97

@ james | Jun 29 2020 4:40 utc | 92

It's not sociopathy, and unlikely to be bipolar. It's pain. Unless you've had impossible suffering, you won't know the awful reality of it. Maybe it's a bit more complex then that. But there are forms of pain vastly worse than a toothache.

Posted by: blues | Jun 29 2020 4:54 utc | 98

Most people are frustrated narcissists.

The level of frustration is the major variable.

The level of narcissism only minor.

Posted by: Lurk | Jun 29 2020 4:54 utc | 99

@blues,

thank you so much for sharing your insights and personal experiences. you've given me a lot to think about. I'd like to share with you how I've formed some of my own prejudices so you can better understand where I'm coming from.

working at a homeless shelter in the states for 7 years gave me a crash course on mental health issues. while there were challenges with extreme cases of schizo-affective disorders and the usual co-occurring addiction issues, the people who fell somewhere on the personality disorder spectrum were the most difficult, most deceitful, and most disruptive people I have ever encountered.

on the autistic spectrum, there was a male client who ended up at the shelter because he couldn't process the social norms with how you interact with women. it was a really sad case. he had multiple orders of protection and no one to advocate for him, so the criminal justice system chewed him up.

@RSH,

thank YOU as well, even though you are often angry and abusive to others, the biography you are detailing, if true, makes a lot of sense. since you read RAW and know Crowley I wonder how aware you are of the chaos magick/LARP psyops/Aquino mind war games, which have been evolving exponentially these last few years.

you display a level of sophistication that impresses me, but it also makes me suspicious of how you try to dominate comment threads with a proliferation of comments. I am much younger than you, but have learned to direct more of my energy away from our collective circle-jerking sessions in forums like these.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 29 2020 4:59 utc | 100

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