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June 28, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-51

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

Prof Francois Balloux @BallouxFrancois - 20:26 UTC · Jun 27, 2020
Newspaper headlines from the the 1918/19 influenza pandemic. A furious debate about masks raged throughout the 1918/19 winter in San Francisco, with arguments essentially indistinguishable from those populating my Twitter feed
(for more info see: influenzaarchive.org/cities/city-sanfrancisco)
> The New York Times publication that Russia allegedly offered secretly bounties to Afghan militants for killing coalition forces was fabricated by the US intelligence agencies, Russia’s Foreign Ministry told TASS on Saturday.
...
The Russian Foreign Ministry pointed to US intelligence agencies’ involvement in Afghan drug trafficking.

"Should we speak about facts - moreover, well-known [facts], it has not long been a secret in Afghanistan that members of the US intelligence community are involved in drug trafficking, cash payments to militants for letting transport convoys pass through, kickbacks from contracts implementing various projects paid by American taxpayers. The list of their actions can be continued if you want," the ministry said.
...
"We can understand their feelings as they do not want to be deprived of the above mentioned sources of the off-the-books income," the ministry stressed. <

Office of the DNI @ODNIgov - 3:19 UTC · 28 Jun 2020
Statement by DNI Ratcliffe: "I have confirmed that neither the President nor the Vice President were ever briefed on any intelligence alleged by the New York Times in its reporting yesterday." (1/2)
"The White House statement addressing this issue earlier today, which denied such a briefing occurred, was accurate. The New York Times reporting, and all other subsequent news reports about such an alleged briefing are inaccurate.” (2/2)

---
Other issues:

Covid-19:

The mortality rate of hospitalized Covid-19 patients is declining in Italy as well as in England. The reasons are unknown. My hunch is that by now doctors have learned much more about the disease's progression (cytokine storm, blood clotting) and how to manage it. The case load in both countries has also declined leaving more time for individual cases. This is really good news. The chances to find a good vaccine are not great. This makes good disease management and the right mix of medications for all the problems the virus causes even more important. An example is this man who endured more than two months of ventilation and survived!

SARS-CoV-2 timeline:

This well conducted study from Italy on old sewage samples found that SARS-CoV-2 was in Italy as early as December 18. In contrast this not peer reviewed study from Spain claims that SARS-CoV-2 has been found in March 2019 sewage samples from Barcelona. Several media have picked up on that. It contradicts the analysis of sequenced virus genomes which say that the virus jumped onto humans only in November 2019. There is only one sample in the study that shows partial virus debris and it is not even specific for SARS-CoV-2. I therefore agree with this comment:

Alan McNally @alanmcn1 - 22:14 UTC · Jun 26, 2020
They are using a PCR target shown to have Toss of a coin specificity and their amplifications are right on borderline. This is another example of importance of peer review I am afraid. This is not true!

Pandemic consequences:

737 MAX:

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on June 28, 2020 at 12:50 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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How China Built, Consolidated Key Galwan Position In 33 Days

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/how-china-built-consolidated-key-galwan-position-in-ladakh-in-33-days-2253535

Posted by: Antonym | Jun 29 2020 5:19 utc | 101

The things about the masks is that they don't have to be 100% effective at catching virion particles. They are far more effective for cutting down on particles breathed out from infected people, than stopping particles breathed in by uninfected ones. Even if they are only 10% effective, that could be enough.

It's all about the 'reproduction value'. If every infected person infects 1.1 more people, the infection level will build up until every one who can be infected will be. If the reproduction value is 0.9, then each infected person will infect less than one other person, and the virus will simply dwindle to nothing. This will be the case for the covid-19, but even also the flu and the common cold.

It has been shown to be rather likely that the virus can 'hitch' a ride on cigarette smoke particles. So if you can smell cigarette smoke, you may well be catching the virus. So just imagine that everybody near you is smoking, and you will be imagining your chances of catching the virus from them if you can (pretend to) smell the smoke.

Posted by: blues | Jun 29 2020 5:34 utc | 102

@ blues with the report of mental health improvement.

That is nice to read and I continue to be amazed at my symptom free state....unless you count the crazy world we live in...

You didn't communicate what sort of therapy you are getting. My healing came from neuromodulation techniques, mostly the QEEG, Zscore, sLORETA suite and some auricular vagus nerve stimulation at the end. I sure wish there were more effort and research put into neuromodulation therapies and less into Big Pharma.....but I digress....

Be well blues

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 29 2020 5:41 utc | 103

I used to believe that SARS-CoV2 escaped out of a Wuhan wildlife market, unintended like SARS-CoV1.
Seeing the present aftermath I start getting doubts:

* why did the CCP stop all human traffic inside China but not to abroad after the outbreak?
* how come Chinese Covid-19 deaths are so low compared to most of other nations? Are they keeping back numbers, treatment or vaccine?
* They have restarted their monopoly manufacturing machine, but also their military on the borders as they perceive others as weak due to Covid-19.
* Mao was not averse to sacrifice a 10/0/0 thousands of Chinese soldiers and/or civilians trying to grab Asian power long after independence: lifetime president Xi might have the same tendency.
* Sun Tsu's "The Art of War" already said all war is based on deception in the 5th century BC.

Posted by: Antonym | Jun 29 2020 5:42 utc | 104

I've been maintaining a 'Dear Diary' log of all this madness and my update tonight is this:

Global, geopolitical madness.

Some massive explosion in Iran. They say it was just a gas leak.

Chinese soldiers killing and capturing Indian soldiers.

North Korea blowing shit up.

ALL American wars, both overt and covert, continuing and simmering with little media attention or shits given by distracted American public.

Israel does whatever the fuck they want to Palestinians.

Israel bombs targets in Syria and Iraq.

Turkey wants in on the action.

What the fuck is going on in Libya? Who is backing Haftar?

Yemen. Dear God, Yemen.

Biden wants to get tougher on Venezuela than Trump.

Putin pays the Taliban to kill US soldiers, claim the Russiagate cult.

Europe: where you at, bro?

Brazil: Covid? Locusts?

Southern Europe: fuck off and die.

Geopolitical madness.

All I want to do is cry.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 29 2020 5:56 utc | 105

Re: to mask or not to mask?

Any research/investigation/analysis into the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of wearing a mask that has been done in the last 6-8 months is not worth a pinch of shit.

Research papers from 10 - 15 years or more ago will be closer to the truth.

Posted by: ted01 | Jun 29 2020 6:35 utc | 106

jesus, just put on a mask in stores and other venues, and practice social distancing. it doesn't have to be perfect in preventing infection, it just has to be useful, and it is. it requires little effort, little cost, and little discomfort. the immense amount of whining about this is amazing.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 29 2020 6:48 utc | 107

lizard 102

Crawl back under a log.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 29 2020 7:01 utc | 108

Troll @101

China cannot prevent Europeans traveling to America or any other shithole.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 29 2020 7:04 utc | 109

Peter AU #55

thanks for pointing out those Ehret papers at SC. I will take a look. I have always assumed the permanent state is a UK based phenomenon.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 29 2020 7:15 utc | 110

I wonder how this works: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/2020/06/27/facebook-ad-boycott-hate-speech-biggest-brands-verizon-coca-cola/3270335001/
Since censorship of social media has been deregulated everyone can demand to censor something, but but what interest do big businesses have? They do have an interest in Facebook cleaning up its image but that is because its business model sucks. Is Coca Cola just in this to look good themselves? ADL blackmails them with reputation damage? I can see that Facebook would like to divert attention from its business model to hatespeech. They can tweak the content to make it innocuous for everyone who matters and look good doing it.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jun 29 2020 7:16 utc | 111

@ Peter AU 105:

You've discovered the first thing on Earth that "the Chinese" cannot do.

They took and transformed atolls hundreds of miles from China's borders into PLA camps; they claim neighbour lands based on Manchu Qing dynasty papers; they copied most US patents; They 100% blocked Facebook in 2009 and many other foreign sites after. They rented whole harbours all over the planet, like your Darwin, Gwadar or Hambantota, They settled Tibet and Xinjiang with Han colonies, "re-educated" 2 million Muslims in the latter etc. etc.

Sure, they are a bit behind on the CIA & co in mayhem but getting there fast.

Posted by: Antonym | Jun 29 2020 7:56 utc | 112

Thanks to b for his usual synopsis of the week's subject matter, always an inspiration towards a further assessment of events as we delve a little deeper through his additional links provided. The article on San Francisco's experience of the Spanish flu was particularly helpful.

I've been mulling over the subject of iconoclasm. I've had in mind the statement by Colin Powell before the start of the Iraq war: "You break it; you own it." And I think that is a good enough subject to mull over. Is Colin Powell correct, and if so, how?

Maybe linked to this, two recent reruns on PBS have me thinking. The first is the story of Mark Twain with particular emphasis on his family break-up with the deaths of persons dear to him. The claim of the program is that a mental bitterness thereafter infuses his work, culminating in the stories in which the devil plays a prominent part. Twain is, I think, an iconoclastic writer. Huckleberry Finn is all about that. I don't think he changed; he just went deeper into breaking things.

The second one is the ongoing series on the US national parks - one segment in which a beautiful valley whose name I cannot begin to type correctly - but I will research - phonically it sounds like a word for tearing things down - is under threat of being destroyed in order to build a dam for San Francisco's water supply. That destruction is resisted, until after the huge San Francisco earthquake in which everything of what had been the city is pretty much destroyed. After which, so is the beautiful valley; the edict to do so passes overwhelmingly.

And now, we have a general trend in the tearing down of monuments occurring worldwide. So, my question is, what is happening? In geological terms, earthquakes are the earth's iconoclasm. In psychological terms, the deaths of loved ones are tectonic shifts in individual mindsets; in pandemic terms societies are torn apart.

What struck me in the article b linked on San Francisco was that it was after a month of epidemic regimentation, the community response frayed and broke apart. We have had longer than that, and the US is a prime example of such breaking apart. The virus seems to be winning; the naysayers on mask wearing are not giving up. At the same time, b says hospitals are doing better tackling the extreme cases. it seems to me that indicates that Time is on our side. Iconoclasm is all wrapped up in Time - it's like a double strand of dna, ying and yang.

Sophocles said:

'Marvels are many
but nothing
is more of a marvel than mankind...'

[My own college translation]

I think Sophocles knew what he was talking about.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 29 2020 8:20 utc | 113

A User
Murdoch? seems to be zionist through and through. No loyalty to five eyes. Just uses whoever and whatever to advance the zionist cause.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 29 2020 8:26 utc | 114

Covi-pass: digital health passports and mass tracking

"A British cybersecurity company, in partnership with several tech firms, is rolling out the COVI-PASS in 15 countries across the world; a “digital health passport” that will contain your COVID-19 test history and other “relevant health information.”
:::
So far, the concerns over the digital health passport’s threat to freedom and privacy have been lukewarm at best and it seems as if the world has already accepted that full-fledged population control methods such as these will simply be a fact of life. While the coronavirus pandemic has certainly done much to bring the public over to this way of thinking, the campaign to normalize this sort of Orwellian power-grab has been ongoing for many years and Bill Gates – who many media outlets have whitewashed out of stories related to these measures – has been at the forefront of its promotion."

https://www.mintpressnews.com/mass-tracking-covi-pass-immunity-passports-slated-roll-15-countries/269006/

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 29 2020 9:04 utc | 115

Andre Vltchek posted a great story on Italy remembering it's love for Russia.here

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 29 2020 9:28 utc | 116

Peter AU1 #114

Ditto Trump.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 29 2020 9:33 utc | 117

To put it politely I, A User, am not a big fan of the grauniad's opinion on anything.
However just now I have been drawn to this article about a poll on euro's changing attitudes towards amerika since the Covid 19 pandemic kicked off.
Yep we all see that the graun's interest is purely political, that the purpose of the article is to sledge orangeman and advance the cause for the even less capable dim hopeful, sleazy Joe Biden.
Nevertheless discounting that furphy there is something quite apposite in this:

"The coronavirus crisis has caused a dramatic deterioration in the European public perception of the US, extensive new polling from across Europe reveals. More than 60% of respondents in Germany, France, Spain, Denmark and Portugal said they had lost trust in the United States as a global leader.

A report based on the survey’s findings argues that the shock of the pandemic has “traumatised” European citizens, leaving them feeling “alone and vulnerable”.

In almost every country surveyed, a majority of people said their perception of the US had deteriorated since the outbreak. Negative attitudes of the US were most marked in Denmark (71%) Portugal (70%), France (68%), Germany (65%) and Spain (64%). In France, 46% and in Germany 42% said their view of the US had worsened “a lot” during the pandemic."

If amerika moves straight from this into a seemingly more tolerable stance, courtesy of a smooth operator such as Barak Oblamblam, the euro bourgeoisie attitude towards amerika & its inherent sociopathy (amerika is an accurate model of sociopath), then this belief by euro bourgeoisie would probably expire before it gains traction.

However there is no grinning hypocrite with a fast line in tamping shit down, then smoothing it over available.
If Biden wins election, garbage news vectors such as the graun will be pushing for that, however I reckon the neolib fishwraps will be overwhelmed by an ugly reality which is a function of Biden's flaws. The man is racist down to his bones

Biden as a white supremacist is the low-life's default position.
When this careerist & corrupt example of everything which is wrong with amerikan politics, chose to hang out with Strom Thurmond (by that time a rethug) and the dixiecrat wing of the dim party, that was by choice. As a yankee congresscreep, Biden wouldn't have been under any political pressure to side with the white supremacists, but he did 'cos he was motivated by personal choice.

I reckon that should he beat orangeman, Biden will indulge the hubris which so many (esp undeserving winners of the prez beauty contest) little people fall victim to.

That is, on waking up 1st day after election day and deciding he is indeed 'king of the world' he'll indulge his long suppressed prejudices to give african amerikans a bit of a swipe, for no reason other than to show 'em who is who in the fucking zoo,

This will play really badly in europe, even tho deep down, the euro bourgeoisie are about as stone racist as they come.

For the last 50 years or so they have been getting by, even claiming they are "not racist" when deep down (take it from one who has seen 'em up close , burbling their poison when they believe they're surrounded by 'fellow travelers') many have not moved far beyond the Nazi shit their grandfathers burbled in the 1930's & 40's.

Don't agree?

Why is it that despite the ongoing criticism from EU "professionals" directed at arsehole states such as Hungary & Poland, nothing happens. Both collect far more EU subsidies than an up until recently 100% opposed to white supremacy state such as Greece?

Euros pretend that the last 3 centuries of pillaging of Africa & Asia by euro states, pillaging which has kept a big mob of them in the top income bracket, never happened, that they have been 'straight up' with the blackfellas when they haven't.
Everyone silently accepts the deception to stay nice, when actually, they are anything but. However just a euro gentleman would never fart in an elevator neither would he ever articulate his racist attitudes.

Biden, like Trump doesn't get euro sophistication, aka euro hypocrisy, so when he opens his yobby gob, he will spruik the type of tosh that will alienate euro arseholes, driving the wedge between euro & amerika which Trump initially hammered in, so deep that the euros & amerika are split asunder.
Not because the sides disagree but because both elements create so much the same noise within their individual webs of deceit, that they cannot afford to be seen agreeing lest Jo/Joe catches on.

Posted by: A User | Jun 29 2020 9:40 utc | 118

re : Peter AU1 | Jun 29 2020 8:26 utc | 114
Yep, did I say anything different?
Since he first expanded beyond 'the tiser' Murdoch has relied upon zionist financiers to build his empire, not because of his beliefs, but because they were available when more strait laced old school anglo financiers wouldn't touch the likes of Murdoch with a barge pole.
Of course now Murdoch's original backers are now 'the establishment' ol rupert couldn't give israel or them the flick even if he wanted to. Which he doesn't - the man's interest in politics being confined to "what is best for me?"

the issue is ,has he really fallen out with ghislane & as he likely hasn't, what is the agenda behind the article?

Posted by: A User | Jun 29 2020 9:50 utc | 119

Lurk wins :)

- - -

About Egypt I now think there won't be any "water war" southwards. I hope the AU negotiation is a success for all involved but even if it isn't there is simply too many peaceful alternatives that make more sense, and I might add: which follow in the positive Egyptian tradition (thus a very easy/popular political sell). Libya however could easily become an Egyptian war although if the US still wants a good relationship to Egypt it shouldn't become one.

With hindsight I realize I was a bit stupid and arrogant and perhaps implicitly condescending in my initial response and that of course there are Egyptians talking about and capable of solving the issues, as an example I've learnt that they hosted the 3rd International Conference On Natural Resources And Renewable Energy (abbreviated as Icnrre–III-2019) in 2019.

Another note: it looks like in addition to many others India could also be a potential partner when it comes to water conservation know-how.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 29 2020 9:52 utc | 120

"This virus has shown up at just the right time" - Dmitri Orlov
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/55279.htm

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 29 2020 10:00 utc | 121

Of course I win.

I am the most splendidly magnificent narcissist in the universe.

Posted by: Lurk | Jun 29 2020 10:29 utc | 122

Haha Lurk XD

- - - - - - -

Off topic here are some impressive pictures of the first milliseconds of a nuclear explosion. They also have a link to a NNSS 2-page PDF that is sort of okay on info only with worse picture quality however the PDF explains the nuclear "rope trick" visible in some of the images (it was caused by the intense light vaporizing the ropes before the explosion itself reaches them; it disappeared when they painted the ropes silver or covered them in reflective material).

- - -

If the Iranian explosion was nuclear:
· Most countries would already know including civilian and international agencies and:
·· If of US origin many things would be happening (but they're not, we would all know and I don't see anyone noticing anything, it's quiet).
·· If of Iranian origin many things would be happening (but they're not, we would all know and I don't see anyone noticing anything, it's quiet).
· There would be radiation and electromagnetic interference even if tiny:
·· People (Iranians) would almost certainly be complaining about more immediate issues than a slightly large fireball. If anyone are close enough to "see" a nuclear »surface detonation« explosion of any size on the horizon (thus close) they are also close enough to go instantly blind, most likely permanently. And of course in that situation it would only be one of many things they would suffer before most likely dying, many others much further away would notice other things ruining their day/lives.

One can read about flash blindness and other effects like the large radar blackout created and also the woman Takakura Akiko surviving only 300 meters away from the hypocenter of Hiroshima in a bank lobby (not vault) due to the "luck" of sufficient material between her and it.

Yes information can need time to travel (or escape) but the longer it goes without a lot of noise and activity the drastically less likely t becomes that anything of the sort happened.

Same goes for all the previous (years) talk of small nukes being used "covertly" in various places.

Summary: nukes are not subtle, not even the sub-kiloton ones (M-388 and please note it is in the size of tons and not kilotons) :D

- - -

To give a very small scale example for comparison normal hand grenades only have at most a few hundred grams of explosive, a F1 only 60 grams yet this one should only be used from behind cover (if one aims to survive).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 29 2020 11:19 utc | 123

karlof1 @93, point taken, I'm a narcissist who criticizes other narcissists :-). It's always about you Raymond [From the Raymond Show]

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jun 29 2020 12:04 utc | 124

Ken and Karen have their guns
and a mansion to protect
Ken is short with a pink shirt on
and Karen is on the edge

gated homes and marble stone
will be defended with lead
and if you cross Ken and Karen
you just might end up dead

Posted by: lizard | Jun 29 2020 13:55 utc | 125

It is weird, but I have a neighbor who mentioned that there were people in town who break into other people's houses to steal things. She was wondering if I worried about having anything valuable stolen. I replied that first off there were no items of value to steal in my home, but beyond that anyone who breaks in will be shot, and multiple times at that if it is what is necessary to make the home invaders die.

Shocked, this woman inquired why I would kill someone who broke into my home only to take something to sell at the pawn shop several blocks away, and particularly when I didn't even have anything of value. In response I informed the woman that if she shared with her child the attitude that breaking into people's homes was a trivial deed and not something to make a fuss over, then she is responsible now for that child's future death at the hands of a frightened home dweller. Her son's killer will be hailed by the local media as a hero for protecting his family, and when they interview her about it she will be left with making the claim, which everyone will scoff at, that "He was always such a good boy!"

It truly is amazing the warped values that some parents teach their kids.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 29 2020 14:32 utc | 126

@rhs 79

Jeezus how much time do u have on your hands? I never want to be your enemy. Lol.
However what a revelation I got from the excerpt: I'm a couple months away from living out of a tent. I'm going full independent for awhile or going professional bum mode. While the creditors r a calling I'll be beating off Bears in the woods. Eventually I'll have to cozy back up to the establishment if I need health care, food etc. For a few months though I'm going to know what it feels like to be free.
I'm gonna be a "deviant"!
I find the idea of living in such a ever more flawed society increasingly unacceptable. Gonna tear myself down and build myself up again and then try and change the world I'm in instead of hiding from it.
In future resumes I'll input this time period as my deviant career.

Posted by: PleaseBeleafMe | Jun 29 2020 15:26 utc | 127

Gruffy, I think that you have extrapolated a little bit much from what the lady said.

Posted by: arby | Jun 29 2020 15:37 utc | 128

to answer the following replay of post this thread. i want add to the pot of possibilities the following
Published may 28 vol 368 issue 6494 is an article about synthetic biology,, entitled remote activation of cellular signaling. (Electric fields stimulate genetically modified pancreatic B cell to secrete insulin in mice).
Electorgenetics and optogenetics, means to control cell function remotely, in which precise wave lengths of light stimulate wavelength specific light sensitive receptors.

Remote activation of cellular signaling (electric fields stimulate genetically modief pancreatic B cells to secrete insulin in mice. Matthew I. Brier1, Jonathan S. Dordick1,2 Science 29 May 2020: Vol. 368, Issue 6494, pp. 936-937 DOI: 10.1126/science.abb9122 also please note that


TMPRSS2 and ACE2 are Co-Expressed if external wavelength applied activation at TMPRSS2 or somewhere on the virus were possible then satellite or 5g activation would be possible.. there fore to answer to the questions below I hypothecate that
satellite activation of SARS CoVid 19 virus infection with ACE-2 Receptor is possible. <=prove it is not.


consider the questions raised in post this thread as follows.
How did the virus manage to jump from Wuhan to Europe, in a completely mutated form, two months before Wuhan was locked down, and yet not spread to the rest of China first?

My answer. It doesn't make sense. What does make sense is that there were stocks of the virus, in different locations, waiting for the signal to be released. by: dh-mtl @ 62


I used to believe that SARS-CoV2 escaped out of a Wuhan wildlife market, unintended like SARS-CoV1.
Seeing the present aftermath I start getting doubts:

* why did the CCP stop all human traffic inside China but not to abroad after the outbreak?
* how come Chinese Covid-19 deaths are so low compared to most of other nations? Are they keeping back numbers, treatment or vaccine?
* They have restarted their monopoly manufacturing machine, but also their military on the borders as they perceive others as weak due to Covid-19.
* Mao was not averse to sacrifice a 10/0/0 thousands of Chinese soldiers and/or civilians trying to grab Asian power long after independence: lifetime president Xi might have the same tendency.
* Sun Tsu's "The Art of War" already said all war is based on deception in the 5th century BC.

by: Antonym @ 104

"This virus has shown up at just the right time" - Dmitri Orlov
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/55279.htm

by: Blue Dotterel @ 121

How did the virus manage to jump from Wuhan to Europe, in a completely mutated form, two months before Wuhan was locked down, and yet not spread to the rest of China first?

My answer. It doesn't make sense. What does make sense is that there were stocks of the virus, in different locations, waiting for the signal to be released. by: dh-mtl @ 62


I used to believe that SARS-CoV2 escaped out of a Wuhan wildlife market, unintended like SARS-CoV1.
Seeing the present aftermath I start getting doubts:

* why did the CCP stop all human traffic inside China but not to abroad after the outbreak?
* how come Chinese Covid-19 deaths are so low compared to most of other nations? Are they keeping back numbers, treatment or vaccine?
* They have restarted their monopoly manufacturing machine, but also their military on the borders as they perceive others as weak due to Covid-19.
* Mao was not averse to sacrifice a 10/0/0 thousands of Chinese soldiers and/or civilians trying to grab Asian power long after independence: lifetime president Xi might have the same tendency.
* Sun Tsu's "The Art of War" already said all war is based on deception in the 5th century BC.

by: Antonym @ 104

"This virus has shown up at just the right time" - Dmitri Orlov
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/55279.htm

by: Blue Dotterel @ 121

Posted by: snake | Jun 29 2020 15:42 utc | 129

Posted by: lizard | Jun 29 2020 4:59 utc | 100

Speaking of Aquino, I've read about him, but not much by him. I am aware that he was psy-war trained, so there's that.

"how you try to dominate comment threads with a proliferation of comments."

Not trying to. I just usually have some things to share, and then I pick up on others comments and go look something up on that and post that stuff. So I do end up commenting a lot - but usually more than I originally intended. For instance, that long post I did with the psychopathy books - that was in response to the thought you had on "solving the problem". It reminded me of the texts I had, and also the Gemini man book, and that started a train of thought, so I posted it. So more spontaneous than trying to dominate.

"I am much younger than you, but have learned to direct more of my energy away from our collective circle-jerking sessions in forums like these."

Keep in mind, I'm retired, so I'm not working a regular job. I just sit at the computer all day (really, all night since my day-night schedule is all out of whack lately.) I do need to do other things, but the usual schedule is get up in the afternoon, check email and certain Web sites including this one, check my RSS feeds, save a bunch of Web pages, download a bunch of Youtube videos - and when I hit here, I've usually got some things to report on. Then it depends on what's been posted here what I get involved with. Then I go do something else on the machine until early in the morning - 3-5AM - when I'll drop in once or twice to see what's been posted since before crashing.

My time management does suck and always has. I've had it under control a few times, but not lately.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 29 2020 15:42 utc | 130

Those carpet hagglers are smart

A nice little permanent black cloud over some heads including the orange buffoon.

Posted by: arby | Jun 29 2020 15:48 utc | 131

@RSH,

if you want a rabbit hole to explore, this is an interesting one.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 29 2020 15:50 utc | 132

@ juliania.. nice post and interesting ruminations....

@ sunny runny burger and lurk! funny...

Posted by: james | Jun 29 2020 15:52 utc | 133

Posted by: PleaseBeleafMe | Jun 29 2020 15:26 utc | 127 Jeezus how much time do u have on your hands?

Lots. I'm retired. Got nothing to do but sit at the computer (although I have a lot to do *on* the computer.) Although I do have tons of things I *should* be doing. There's always a distraction. As an example I spent literally all night last night trying to get my Linux box to remove DRM from Amazon Kindle books so I could read them in the Calibre ebook program. Finally had to boot up VirtualBox and run Windows 7 to get it done - should have done that in the first place.

Always something...

"I never want to be your enemy. Lol."

Always a good idea. :-)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 29 2020 15:56 utc | 134

arby @128

I am curious what I may have extrapolated that was unstated.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 29 2020 16:16 utc | 135

Posted by: lizard | Jun 29 2020 15:50 utc | 132 if you want a rabbit hole to explore, this is an interesting one.

I just scanned it. I can't waste any time on Bill Gates - everyone in the computer industry knows he's an asshole and always was. Whatever else he's into is going to be about money because that's all he cares about.

Dershowitz, ditto. He spends his time rooting out anyone who criticizes Israel as an "anti-Semite". He's a lawyer, so he's scum to begin with.

In my view, all these guys are second-string lames. They're not the *real* elites, who are probably guys no one knows the names of. As for these guys he's talking about, I might take their money, but I wouldn't waste a bullet on most of them.

And Timothy Leary as a "CIA/FBI operative" - uh, no. I know he was accused of ratting on someone back in the day, but as I recall there was never any proof and no one I knew back in the '70s and '80s cared. My only complaint about him was that he backed out of cryonic suspension and had himself cremated, which was simply stupid and a violation of his whole agenda. I never understood why Winona Ryder didn't foot the bill for a full-body suspension rather than just cranial. She was his god-daughter. If I ever run into her around town here, I'll ask her. :-)

When I decide to make a move on the elites, it won't be based on this level of here-say and speculation.

This is like all these "ghost shows" on reality TV. They spend an hour building up some BS like it was something. There was a show I watched which is sort of like 'Myth-Busters", but with a harder edge. They did one of these ghost shows just to show how nothing can be turned into something. At the end they showed how in fact it was all nothing but suggestion and clever wording to produce an emotional reaction.

Half these guys who are deep into conspiracy theories are probably themselves conspirators or being fed rabbit hole links by the Deep State and are too dumb to see it.

The whole point of Robert Anton Wilson's "Illuminatus Trilogy" was to point out how conspiracy theories are both real and used to confuse people about the real underlying conspiracies.

As I've said before, I like conspiracy theories more than most people. But I distinguish between plausible ones and implausible ones. I can listen to someone who says Building 7 was pulled, but not someone who says Trump is a lizard alien. Most of these guys can't tell the difference.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 29 2020 16:20 utc | 136

@juliania re: San Francisco reservoir

The choice was between 2 equally spectacular valleys: 1) Yosemite or 2) Hetch Hetchy. The one they chose, Hetch Hetchy, arguably had better waterfalls and more spectacular features. It certainly had more room for the indigenous folks. This same crappy choice later led to the Glen Canyon vs Grand Canyon dilemma faced by David Brower.

Posted by: Dr Wellington Yueh | Jun 29 2020 16:34 utc | 137

@RSH,

I didn't claim those people were the elite, I just said it's an interesting rabbit hole to explore. of course part of the intent with psy-op disinfo is to waste people's time and muddy the waters around what is actually happening.

I also think it's naive to dismiss the possibility that Leary was an asset. maybe he didn't understand the role of the counter-culture he was helping to create and was just a useful idiot peddling psychedelics.

read Drugs As Weapons Against Us by John Potash if you want a better understanding of how different substances over the years have been used to keep populations in check.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 29 2020 16:37 utc | 138

Re: mental health issues

I have learned a few things crawling my way out of crippling anxiety that I suppose also ring true for those with chronic depression. Though I always lament the child that goes without proper parenting to instill value and love into their children and for those that by sheer chance have a mental imbalance/impairment that is no fault of their own.

By and large, there is a great majority of those suffering under the weight of their own mind who can legitimately help themselves if they merely shut-off the spicket that continuously inundates their self with false narratives about life its social constructions.

There are indeed many evils, but two of the greatest are advertisement/marketting, increasingly sharing a relationship with consummable media that is 100% corporate owned/financed, and public education which is increasingly hellbent on eroding the fundamental duties of parents to be the great instillers of self-worth, ethic, and truth for their children. We all know the elites breed their children to not go slumming with the underclasses, but what if I told you that public school as it is designed is to go lockstep with the two-breadwinner household to keep the neoliberal reality in place.

This reality seeks to establish a firm grip on your mind by dismissing such silly notions of free will with postmodern social construction which attempt to strengthen and hold the position of neoliberal globalism.

Those suffering under the weight of their own diminished self-value, further entrenching this by partaking in fast food, popular culture, video games, etc. are playing into their hands quite beautifully. And the full-on assault on POTUS not only provides an easy scapegoat for their own wallowing anger and bitterness but also seeks to destroy any threat to the globalist chokehold being spearheaded equally by Chinese-American elites.

It feels good to hate the bad guy, as POTUS is being painted as, and to pile-on. There are many here reinforcing such a reality by not attacking the true evil, which is of course neoliberal globalism.

But I may digress. You aren't a hooligan to be used by the elite to dethrone POTUS. You have the power to not only feel good about yourself and your life by making good choices, but also have the ability to be on the right side of history by speaking truth to power about what is really going on.

The mental illness in my country being supported by lack of consciousness of freewill is part and parcel of their plan.

As it stands, if you are wallowing, you are playing into their hands.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 29 2020 16:44 utc | 139

Posted by: Jen | Jun 29 2020 1:01 utc | 76

On comparing Belgium with Sweden. You mention most of the dead in Sweden being in the old peoples' homes, but that appears to be true also of Belgium to a large extent. 56% of Covid deaths in Belgium were in old people's homes.

Now, consider the following:

A new analysis of French statistics moreover shows the following: as soon as there is a “suspected case” in a nursing home (e.g. due to coughing), all deaths are considered “suspected Covid19 deaths”, and as soon as there is a “confirmed case” in a nursing home (even if symptomless), all deaths are considered “confirmed Covid19 deaths”. https://covidinfos.net/covid19/deces-dus-au-covid-19-le-nombre-officiel-de-morts-en-france-est-il-surestime/502/

The latest figures from Belgium show that there too, just over 50% of all additional deaths occur in nursing homes, which do not benefit from a general lockdown. In 6% of these deaths Covid19 was “confirmed”, in 94% of the deaths it was “suspected”. About 70% of the test-positive persons (employees and residents) showed no symptoms.

On the face of it, that would seem to be pretty good evidence that the huge death figures in Belgium are largely bogus. That is, not bogus deaths but bogus causation concerning Covid. If they are falsifying the statistics on such a large scale in old peoples' homes, I for one would bet they are falsifying pretty enthusiastically elsewhere also.

Remember that we are talking about deaths of people with an AVERAGE age of well over 80 (in the case of Sweden I think it was 86). At that age people are pretty fragile. If you start terrifying people with threats of deadly viruses, total isolation from relatives, and staff all in terrifying protective outfits, and cancellation of essential non-Covid medical procedures, these elderly people many of whom are already virtually overwhelmed with multiple illnesses are going to be pushed over the edge at fairly considerable rates.

My impression is that through a combination of extraordinary criminal neglect (and worse) of nursing homes in which by far the most highly susceptible members of society are given disproportionately high exposure to the virus (including through the socialogical factors you mention), subjected to a regime of prolonged terror and isolation from relatives, and deprived of essential medical attention, all combined with fraudulently deceptive misaccounting of cause of death, you would probably go a long way to explaining the very high figures allegedly attributed to Covid-19. Real cause of death in many, probably most cases, in these figures, is the criminal mishandling of the measures against Covid, not the Covid itself.

Also of interest in the case of Belgium is the temptation to wonder whether the high NATO presence in Belgium combined with their proximity to Belgian decision makers is one reason for the extraordinarily abusive misuse of statistiscs and misattribution of cause of death. One can only wonder.

Posted by: BM | Jun 29 2020 17:05 utc | 140

Posted by: lizard | Jun 29 2020 16:37 utc | 138 maybe he didn't understand the role of the counter-culture he was helping to create and was just a useful idiot peddling psychedelics.

He may have been an idiot in some respects, but it was likely out of naivety or too much imagination rather than calculation. We have to remember he was a psychologist first, so he wasn't firmly grounded in the hard sciences to begin with.

As for the counter-culture, they come and go. They had the same thing in Germany around the turn of the 19th century: the whole "volkisch" movement. That ultimately got co-opted by the fascists and the whole "Aryan German" stuff. In the US, the same thing happened except it was co-opted by drug dealers and guys like Charlie Manson and the Process Church.

The reason in both cases was simple: they had no solid philosophical or scientific grounding for the movement. Movements that are made out of air end up floating away into nothing. Lavey and Aquino had a better grounding but still couldn't hold it together because there were too many egos involved.

Movements that are based around organizations don't work. Movements based on individual actions that are coordinated by a shared philosophical and strategic and tactical principles could work.

I like the way the new video game, "Watch Dogs - Legion", plays on that concept. The plot is that London is basically being taken over by gangs, militarized cops, etc. So a Resistance is formed which consists of anyone who has the skills needed. They are coordinated by encrypted communications handled by an AI. An non-player character in the game can be recruited by the player to help achieve game goals.

Check out the trailer and some game play"

Watch Dogs: Legion Official Gameplay Trailer – E3 2019
WATCH DOGS LEGION - E3 2019 GAMEPLAY WALKTHROUGH

I gotta get some sleep. Later.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 29 2020 17:05 utc | 141

@NemesisCalling,

very well said, thank you for that. I very much agree that neoliberal globalism is one of the true evils that must be directly addressed if we're to avoid the technocratic prison planet they have been constructing for us, their cattle.

we don't need names of individuals, we need to understand their modes of thinking and methods. LARPing
(live action role play) and increasingly sophisticated disinfo operations like Q-anon play very important roles in behavior management.

I also think there is a spiritual aspect to what is happening and some of those narratives are worth better understanding, like the idea of star-seeds, which goes back to Timothy Leary and Robert Anton Wilson, the latter having a post-humous publication coming out soon I believe.

I think it's a big mistake to ignore and/or ridicule these topics, especially when so many people, including myself, are being manipulated by them. maybe I'm a fool, a gullible mark spreading their mind viruses, I dunno. it's a double-bind mindfuck they've got seekers spinning around in.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 29 2020 17:06 utc | 142

Oooh, I think I just made an appearance in a screed by our resident ‘War With Iran’ troll, as that ‘Iranian idiot’ to be F’ed.
Yay, whether I’m Iranian, an idiot, or can be neared to be F’ed, TBD.
Well, this ‘Iranian idiot’ stole the lollipop you’ve been licking on for over a decade. Suck on that — as they say.
Back to the drawing board to gin up you your idiocy here. Ideologue, is the only way to describe you.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jun 29 2020 17:43 utc | 143

"Gruffy, I guess I didn't notice the "if" word.

I think that most parents do not teach their kids that breaking into someone's home is trivial. Even the ones that may suggest it probably note the dangers.

Waving a gun in the face of an intruder in most cases would be enough. Just being there in most cases would frighten off most.

Plugging them should be a last resort IMO."

Posted by: arby | Jun 29 2020 17:58 utc | 144

arby @144

Well, sure, I'd give a home intruder a couple seconds head start before I start shooting, and hopefully they choose to use those seconds wisely. It is better for all concerned, though, if children are taught that committing crimes like home invasion result in automatic on the spot death sentences. Unfortunately, that is not the message that comes across to a child when the parent expresses shock and indignation and rants about the injustice of it all when yet another home invader gets shot.

Kids learn more from their parents' actions and behaviors than from their words, so while a parent might say Crime X is bad, when they then side with the criminals who commit Crime X they are green lighting that behavior to their children. This is just as true of finance fraud as it is of home invasion.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 29 2020 18:29 utc | 145

Wm Gruff

Sounded to me like she was sizing you up as a mark.

Your response was perfect if that's what she was doing.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 29 2020 18:36 utc | 146

This is great. Fat Donny better double down and triple down on his security. It's time also he's starts to think about his life once he's out of office. Talk about looking over your shoulder. Many are going to be, metaphorically of course, gunning for him and certainly Iran will be gunning for him literally. Wouldn't it be something if they used a bone saw on him like Trump's pal MBS used a bone saw on Khashoggi.

Iran Issues Arrest Warrant For Trump Over Drone Strike That Killed Qasem Soleimani

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 29 2020 18:50 utc | 147

Oh, I don't know. I sure read quite a few Americans that seem to be just itching to shoot somebody.
I like the Chinese and Indian deal on that border. No guns allowed.

Posted by: arby | Jun 29 2020 18:52 utc | 148

i'm with robin hood myself.... fuckers with guns wanting to blow people up- hard to support freaks like that... share what you have.. you can't take it with you to the other side..

Posted by: james | Jun 29 2020 18:55 utc | 149

@148, I agree, it's the way wars, if we must have wars, should be fought. With bare hands. No implements. Implements are for cowardly cheaters.

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 29 2020 18:56 utc | 150

A User 119

I see what is happening in the US as a turf war between the five-eyes anglosphere and the US nationalists. Murdoch being the only media to back Trump and the nationalists.
As for the Sun piece, nobody seems to be after Ghislane as she is free to wander from mansion to mansion. Just material for Murdoch's tabloids. I researched Murdoch awhile back and to him, people are just stepping stones - including establishment type figures - his one constant being Israel.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 29 2020 19:20 utc | 151

Europeans’ Trust in US as Global Leader Plummets Over ‘Appalling’ Handling of COVID-19 Pandemic

[...]commissioned by the Berlin-based European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR) thinktank

According to the survey, conducted by Datapraxis and YouGov from late April to the first week of May out across nine EU countries, over 60 per cent of respondents in Germany, France, Spain, Denmark and Portugal revealed they had lost trust in the US as a global leader.

Posted by: vk | Jun 29 2020 19:30 utc | 152

It's easier to sell weapons like cheeseburgers and call it freedom(for dummies) than have a decent security/cultural policy..especially when firearms diffusion is "regulated" by the producers.Another anchor to the american nightmare.

Posted by: LuBa | Jun 29 2020 19:30 utc | 153

This needs to be done across the entire planet. Mass sterilization in order to radically diminish population numbers. Of course, it should be done in a humane and egalitarian manner. No loopholes and no exceptions. Tough love. If only Mary Anne MacLeod and/or Frederick Christ Trump was/were sterilized before Fat Donny was conceived, we would have been spared his torment & debauchery.

China Sterilizing Ethnic Minority Women In Xinjiang, Report Says

Chinese authorities are carrying out forced sterilisations of women in an apparent campaign to curb the growth of ethnic minority populations in the western Xinjiang region, according to research published on Monday.

The report, based on a combination of official regional data, policy documents and interviews with ethnic minority women, has prompted an international group of lawmakers to call for a United Nations investigation into China’s policies in the region.

The move is likely to enrage Beijing, which has denied trampling on the rights of ethnic groups in Xinjiang, and which on Monday called the allegations “baseless”.

The country is accused of locking more than one million Uighurs and other mostly Muslim minorities in re-education camps. Beijing describes the facilities as job training centres aimed at steering people away from terrorism following a spate of violence blamed on separatists.

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 29 2020 19:36 utc | 154

450,,
"according to research published on Monday. "

This crap is as convincing as the Russians paying bounties.

Zero countem Zero evidence.
Ranks right up there with "experts say".

I think you are on the wrong board 450.

Posted by: arby | Jun 29 2020 19:58 utc | 155

@ 153 luba and 155 arby... ditto...

Posted by: james | Jun 29 2020 20:08 utc | 156

don't tell me this is william gruff and wife?? lol...

Posted by: james | Jun 29 2020 20:10 utc | 157

"you can't take it with you to the other side"

Neither can the home invaders.

My, how times have changed. Had I ever as a youth decided to break into people's homes while they were asleep and tried to take their stuff, and in the process I had gotten myself shot and died, I always knew that it would be tough on my parents because they would feel honor-bound to apologize to the guy who shot me for my being such an asshole that I saddled him with the terrible experience. It is a perverse middle class neoliberal mental illness that believes the better solution to home invaders getting killed is to make weapons illegal to own rather than parents teaching their offspring not to invade homes.

And believe it or not, it is entirely possible to teach kids not to be criminal threats to their communities. Home invaders are not often killed in East Asia, for instance, not because people don't have guns, but because people teach their children not to grow up to be assholes that invade other people's homes. Or rather, they teach their children not to be assholes in general, and treat home invasion as asshole behavior. It works out to be the same thing end the end.

"Implements are for cowardly cheaters."

Except people defending their families in their homes are not wars. They are just trying to do their best to get along in society until some asshole intrudes upon their lives. It is not an issue of "fairness". "Fairness" would be for the asshole not to invade the family's peace, and if the asshole chooses to do so, "fairness" is for that asshole to be dispatched as quickly as possible and with the least disturbance to the family that he accosted.

This delusionally warped and bass ackwards thinking by middle class neoliberals is part of why society isn't likely to be fixed anytime soon in the West.

It is really strange as the middle class neoliberals are essentially arguing that the criminals are basically subhuman animals who cannot be taught better behavior, so society must be restructured to make the world safe for the criminals. Unfortunately, this is the same kind of thinking that underlies just carting those criminals off to camps and euthanizing them out of sight there... fascist thinking, in other words. The only difference being a single attack on their family by a criminal. The step from neoliberal to fascist is really a very small one.
The difficult part of the thinking is already done, which is the part where certain portions of the population are seen as devoid of agency and are not capable of controlling their own behavior. That is, they are not viewed as human. The neoliberals' aversion to euthanizing those portions of the population is no different from their aversion to euthanizing excess dogs at the local dog pound... it is simply distasteful.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 29 2020 20:14 utc | 158

Hm, I think the people on here will disbelieve the 'China does mass sterilization' claims from the Falun Gong unless there is very strong proof. I am guessing they are on average much less critical about 'Gates does mass sterilization' claims.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jun 29 2020 20:15 utc | 159

@142 lizard

Thanks, lizard. Coming from you that is very nice.

Re: LARPing

I have seen some humorous youtube vids on subject. Also a large presence on the neoliberal-youth hivemind @ reddit. There is something strangely sexual and infantile about it. Freud I am sure would be more interested in these weird subcultures.

To me, transhumanism is, at bottom, a denial of death, which is to say, human life. We are all beings-toward-death, and any technoscience babble about escaping this trajectory is self-defeating, and, I would say, humorous to boot.

Why would anyone want to live ad infinitum? There is no such being that can.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 29 2020 20:22 utc | 160

I wouldn't necessarily mind, (nor hopefully) would I hesitate, were it necessary, to open fire upon an intruder in order to protect my family. But I would hate to have that terrible scene playing over and over in my head for the remainder of my life. Ergo, I am happy that I have not yet had to shoot anyone. It's the stuff of Nightmares and PTSD.

There tends to be a lot of macho bluster (hairy-chested bombast) around this issue which doesn't take into account that which I have indicated.

Posted by: Kristan hinton | Jun 29 2020 20:27 utc | 161

james @157

Big house! I think my home would fit in their garage with room to spare!

Sad thing is that scenes like this rack up far more votes for Trump than they do for... well, whoever the BLM types are advocating. Even sadder still is that when the backlash comes (because there will be a backlash due to none of these street performances actually leading to a solution for the very reasons Andre Vltchek points out), and middle class whites slink back off to their comfy homes, who will be left to face the wrath of the population alone? Black Americans. As much as the white middle class pretends to be on Black America's side, they will be nowhere to be found when the shit gets real.

I, on the other hand, will be out at the barricades at the end of my street to protect my neighbors, most of whom are NOT white, from that outpouring of rage when (not if) it comes.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 29 2020 20:30 utc | 162

If anyone is not critical of Falun Gong claims of which there is never ever any verifiable evidence ever then their brainwashing is complete.
As far as Bill Gates, I for one have not really seen anything one way or the other on the sterilization claims. I have seen a fair bit of ranting about how evil he is.

Posted by: arby | Jun 29 2020 20:37 utc | 163

Not just NYT and WaPo - Associated Press is also happy to sacrifice its credibility to promote the Russia/Taliban story:

"In early 2020, members of the elite Naval Special Warfare Development Group, known to the public as SEAL Team Six, raided a Taliban outpost and recovered roughly $500,000. The recovered funds further solidified the suspicions of the American intelligence community that the Russians had offered money to Taliban militants and linked associations."

So ... eh ... the Taliban doesn't use money, except when it gets bounties in dollars from Russia to kill Americans??? AP doesn't explain how that recovered cash "solidified the suspicions".
https://apnews.com/02975c59e71e65327e2f582cd1a91f43

Posted by: Brendan | Jun 29 2020 20:38 utc | 164

I thought we started out with a home intruder like a petty thief. Seems the conversation has changed to home invasion. In my mind that is a big difference and perhaps subject to armed resistance. I have no guns so hope it never happens in our home.

Posted by: arby | Jun 29 2020 20:42 utc | 165

PS; I have had stuff swiped from my house and window smashed in my car to steal less than 2 bucks worth of change and surely would have loved to put my boot up the punk's ass. But shooting him would be too too far.

Posted by: arby | Jun 29 2020 20:47 utc | 166

arby @165

I'm curious what the difference is between home intrusion and home invasion.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 29 2020 20:52 utc | 167

I used to leave my keys in the ignition of my car when I lived in Japan.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 29 2020 20:53 utc | 168

Tuyzentfloot @159--

Those "accusation" articles never provide the proper context such as citing the numerous times the Outlaw US Empire had already engaged in similar behavior. Thus my comment up thread.

Mr Chuba @124--

Ya know what, I didn't even read your comment. As I said; I came to the thread for a drive-by. Sorry, but it seems you became collateral damage.

Upthread, someone mentioned the common sense aspect of mask wearing, social distancing, and not traveling, which the majority of Americans apparently lack as I believe this headline is actually correct: "Chinese appalled by US’ anti-common sense, failure in COVID-19 education".

Meanwhile, Mr. Gruff provides us with an excellent example of what's known as the Stand Your Ground Doctrine that became the USA Legal System's standard when it comes to self defense doctrine as rendered by Justice Holmes in 1921, thus replacing the longstanding Common Law standard of retreat until against the wall.

As for the arrest warrant for Trump, he's already confessed responsibility for that mass murder. So, is the world to be run by the Rule of Law or continue to be anarchic thanks to the Outlaw US Empire's continuous law-breaking? Why did Bolton get $2 Million instead of 2 million years behind bars for his crimes? Because its the policy of the Outlaw US Empire to REWARD certain criminals, like bankers and other looters of the Treasury.

Why isn't there a global movement afoot to BDS the Outlaw US Empire similar to that targeting Zionistan? Can't the rest of the world see the Outlaw US Empire is Exceptional, as in Exceptionally Dangerous, a far worse manifestation than COVID-19 or any other virus?

My neighbor thinks something major's going to occur on 4 July. I think he might be correct.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2020 20:57 utc | 169

Willam Gruff @167--

I found this that seems correct:

"The major difference between a “standard” burglary and an actual home invasion are:

"1.Most burglars don’t want the occupants to be at home - Either they fear injury or death at the occupants’s hands or they fear that the police will arrive before they have a chance to commit the crime and flee the scene.

"2.Most home invaders want the occupants to be AT home during their crime as they know (or believe) that the occupants have large amounts of cash, jewelry or drugs in the home. They don’t know, or aren’t certain, as to the location of their intended loot and they require the occupants to be present to show them

"3.Most burglars don’t carry weapons as doing so increases the penalties if or when they are finally caught by the authorities. Also, since most only try to enter unoccupied homes, they don’t feel the need to bring weapons with them.

"4.Nearly all home invaders bring some type of weapon with them. This is to not only force their way into the home, but to also overpower and intimidate any of the homes occupants.

"5.Burglars try to make limited amounts of noise when breaking in, while home invaders rarely care about noise beyond what might attract people outside of the dwelling."

IMO, home invasion combines burglary with kidnapping.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2020 21:10 utc | 170

An example of My Screed @169: "'Absolute Robbery': Gilead Announces $3,120 Price Tag for Covid-19 Drug Developed With $70 Million in Taxpayer Support"

I remember there was once a Conservative Columnist who coined the line: "There ought to be a law." But for several decades now, we've seen conservative politicos providing similar "profit opportunities" to their campaign sponsors. Such crap is one of the massive number of straws that have broken some of the public's back and have them out in the street. I recall a few voices back then when the hew and cry was for Deregulation that said that would be the same as abetting the criminals. So, along with removing regulations, the regulators were captured by the industries they were charged with regulating. But if a corporation like Gilead gets hacked and loses millions, that's deemed a crime instead of Robin Hood vigilance--and the corporation gets to write-off the loss.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2020 21:30 utc | 171

In top post University of Barcelona findings are dismissed because PCR tests are just a coin toss and the exact test used is not even specific to SARS-COVID2. The exact same thing may be said of all ten million ‘cases’ reported by JHU and Worldometer. Well, 99% of them, China has better protocols.

This is just how we humans are. If we like the results we like the procedure used to get the results. If we like the messenger we believe the news. If the news is bad we shoot the messenger.

I can only read the English language abstract from Barcelona. They clearly understand the importance of their findings. If you know how the PCR procedure works works it is far more likely a meaningful result could be found for an old sewage sample than for an individual. The inventor of PCR, Kary Mullis, always maintained that his technique simply could not be used for diagnosis, had no clinical applications whatsoever. Not so much that it was inaccurate or unreliable, just not fit for purpose.

But believe the ten million number if you wish and dismiss the Barcelona finding if you wish. This is a political process, not a scientific process.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 29 2020 21:47 utc | 172

@158, I was talking about war and that's clear from the commentary. I'm staying out of the burglary/home invasion debate although it is nice, and noteworthy, how polite you all are with each other.

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 29 2020 21:54 utc | 173

@155, I'm not saying I believe it or don't believe it, my point is we shouldn't be shy about discussing global sterilization considering the implications of this imminent environmental catastrophe unfolding before our very eyes.

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 29 2020 21:56 utc | 174

@oldhippie PCR tests are not coin tosses, they are very accurate but you can compare them with finding a search string in a long string of characters. The long string of characters is the dna string. If the search string is small the chances of finding it in a random text are fairly large and the result is meaningless: you will have many false positives. If the search string is long enough and if it is well chosen then there will be no false positives.
The tests which are used for covid are RT-PCR: the virus is made from RNA but you translate it first to DNA in order for PCR to process it. The main problem for these tests is that you have to get a good sample. When the disease is most contagious it is very present in the throat and upper airways, and that is where you use the swab. But when it is not present there (anymore) then your sample is not good enough.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jun 29 2020 22:01 utc | 175

Just some general thoughts:

If China really were forcibly sterilising minorities or otherwise I wouldn't be surprised. There may be more details that flush it out making it less draconian sounding. Not sure how or even if China's one child policy works or exists anymore? To apply it only to minorities sounds ominous. China's problems with regards it's population control r not as simple "everyone should have the right to breed infinitum". Chinese are already everywhere! Nothing against the peoples or cultures but there's hardly a Canada town in everyone's downtown core! Maybe we should applaud if done humanely and fairly?
@NC 160
"Why would anyone want to live ad infinitum? There is no such being that can."
John Scalzi has a sf series where the old people can opt into cloned bodies where basically everyone can look like a pornstar. I'd fuck into oblivion. I wouldn't get bored.
If I've gotta watch my living corpse collapse in upon itself but have to endure it consciously them I'm out. Nap!
As for the intruder debate:
Our house was broken into while we were out one evening. Punks stole a bunch of DVDs and the wife's meager jewelry! They went through the nightstand and layed out the wife's dildo collection on the bed however. That obviously felt personal and I'm pretty sure that if they had of been hiding under that bed I would have probably been the first person to commit dildo murder.
Lived in Switzerland for 5 years. Can't describe how safe I felt there. Even started to relax. People can be taught to be better and without being Swiss.

Posted by: PleaseBeleafMe | Jun 29 2020 22:02 utc | 176

@155, what's the matter, you didn't like my comment about sterilizing Trump's mother and father? I didn't realize this board was a haven for Trump supporters and defenders. If it is, you are right, I'm at the wrong venue, but I don't think this place is what you think it is or what you want it to be. If that story about China is bull, state and support your case that it's bull and let the debunking stand on its own merits. I agree, it's most likely bull just as the bounty story is most likely bull. Frankly, I don't give a shit if Russian Intelligence and Putin put bounties on American soldiers heads in Afghanistan so much as Russia and Putin giving safe harbor and training and support to NeoNazis from around the globe. That's scumbaggery at its finest and a massive insult to all the fine Soviets who fought and defeated the Nazis in WWII.

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 29 2020 22:05 utc | 177

Brendan@164

Notable also that this ludicrous story, whose promotion by the MI6 Guardian confirms the obvious suspicions about it, also includes the wild claim that the Russian unit responsible for the bounties was also behind the "Novichok" "attack" on the Skripals.
It is another loyalty oath operation designed to force intelligent people into professing to believe incredible nonsense.
The bottom line of the bounty claim is that very few Americans have in fact been killed. If there were an actual bounty the country is full of GIs ripe for plucking. And the money compares well with poppy growing.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 29 2020 22:11 utc | 178

@157 No james. That is not Mr. and Mrs. Gruff. It is a wealthy (boo, hiss) couple in St. Louis who restored a heritage house and don't want to see it trashed.

https://www.stlmag.com/design/a-decades-long-renovation-returns-a-midwestern-palazzo-to-it/

Posted by: dh | Jun 29 2020 22:12 utc | 179

"Well, sure, I'd give a home intruder a couple seconds head start before I start shooting, and hopefully they choose to use those seconds wisely. It is better for all concerned, though, if children are taught that committing crimes like home invasion result in automatic on the spot death sentences. Unfortunately, that is not the message that comes across to a child when the parent expresses shock and indignation and rants about the injustice of it all when yet another home invader gets shot..."
William Gruff@145
Good to see WG once more underlining the verities of Marxism: even a self designated Communist turns into a one man lynch mob when poor people threaten the property that he owns, and loves. (And which almost certainly was stolen from the poor in the first place.)
One thing that Proudhon was right about: "Property is theft."

Posted by: bevin | Jun 29 2020 22:29 utc | 180

Tuyzentfloot @ 175

You have confidence in that? When it reads like a commercial it probably is. The inventor of the process always called it simply a manufacturing process, a means of getting enough virus to do other research with. RNA replication is notoriously imprecise, you never get the kind of exact result you are postulating. Then there is the question of how many reproductive cycles have occurred, which corresponds in some way to the timer that controls the test, but no one is ever sure how many cycles have really happened, an arbitrary cutoff is established and away we go. An error bar of two to the twentieth is normal.

Mullis’ procedure was applied almost immediately to HIV testing. He spent 36 years explaining why that was a mistake. The test we use now is the 2003 test for SARS-COVID1, which Mullis also trashed. There simply is not a test for SARS-COVID2.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 29 2020 22:32 utc | 181

@180 'Property is theft'. Unless it is turned into homeless shelters with blocked toilets.

Posted by: dh | Jun 29 2020 22:39 utc | 182

Richard Steven Hack | Jun 29 2020 4:42 utc | 96:

Thanks for the link. Most of the myths debunked I agree with the doctor. However, the doctor does seem a bit naive when it comes to what people would do when money is involved.



ted01 | Jun 29 2020 6:35 utc | 106:

Sadly you're correct. When money is involved then science becomes junk science.



450.org | Jun 29 2020 19:36 utc | 154:

The Guardian? Seriously? LOL



arby | Jun 29 2020 20:37 utc | 163:

Most successful businessmen are very aggressive, borderlining on becoming a psychopath. Their behavior gives that evil aurora.



William Gruff | Jun 29 2020 20:53 utc | 168:

You probably should have stayed in Japan. I don't see anything good coming in the future (assuming you live in the Americas).



PleaseBeleafMe | Jun 29 2020 22:02 utc | 176:

Not sure how or even if China's one child policy works or exists anymore? To apply it only to minorities sounds ominous.

AFAIK, China's One Child policy ended at least a few years ago which was replaced to a Two-Child policy. Also the policy only applies to ethnic Han and if you live in a urban setting.

Posted by: Ian2 | Jun 29 2020 22:40 utc | 183

The couple with the guns !
If they had been black and the protesters had been white and unarmed, the pair of them would have been shot dead by the police.
———
That mustard stain on her top looks gross, money can’t buy you style !

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 29 2020 22:58 utc | 184

Apparently, nobody's linked to or sought to discuss Alastair Crooke's recent essay: "‘The God That Failed’: Why the U.S. Cannot Now Re-Impose Its Civilisational Worldview". But was it actually the USA's "worldview"? Crooke says this:

"Liberal core tenets of individual autonomy, freedom, industry, free trade and commerce essentially reflected the triumph of the Protestant worldview in Europe’s 30-years’ civil war. It was not fully even a Christian view, but more a Protestant one."

Then he follows with a caveat:

"This narrow, sectarian pillar was able to be projected into a universal project – only so long as it was underpinned by power. In Mill’s day, the civilisational claim served Europe’s need for colonial validation [Link at Original]. Mill tacitly acknowledges this when he validates the clearing of the indigenous American populations for not having tamed the wilderness, nor made the land productive." [Emphasis Original]

But where is the connection with the title and which of the many books written about God failing? Thankfully we're told who the lead author is--André Gide--it's an anthology from 1949, The God Who Failed. But given the who and when, how much veracity should it merit? And why wait so long in the essay? Is Crooke At Sea as his recent writings seem to suggest? Or is he just a reflection of the general confusion being caused by the unfocused nature of the ongoing protests that aren't just occurring within the Outlaw US Empire?

Are there any barflies willing to admit they're "Woke"? Or is that just another label the Establishment Narrative's trying to use for its own purposes?

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2020 23:00 utc | 185

Global Times piece on the new security laws for Hong Kong.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1192992.shtml
"Washington's will to invest in Hong Kong's unrest is limited. Such a will does not match Beijing's resolve to defend "one country, two systems." When the national security law for Hong Kong confronts the US' so-called Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act, the latter will be immediately overwhelmed.

The US is entangled in COVID-19, and the fallout from racial issues is unprecedented. It has no ability to sustain a long-term intensive attack against China's core interests. The development of Hong Kong's situation will be dominated by China, and the city will gradually return to the right track under the framework of the Basic Law. All people living in Hong Kong must understand that the city will not be determined by the US.

All people and forces that go against such a trend will lose. It is best for them to immediately make adjustments that respect the national security law for Hong Kong."

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 29 2020 23:00 utc | 186

@174. Well by all means, be proactive and a hip social media Influencer: Auto-sterilize yourself on your favorite live app and show us the way to a merry, green and troll-less future..

Posted by: Lozion | Jun 29 2020 23:05 utc | 187

karlof1

I had read the piece but found it little different from many current articles on the US. Most articles only look at the visible symptoms of the problem but not the root cause which manifests in many symptoms. Ehret on the hand, I believe digs into the root cause.

Posted by: Peter | Jun 29 2020 23:10 utc | 188

karlof1 @170: "IMO, home invasion combines burglary with kidnapping."

That certainly sounds reasonable.

So, when you are lying in you bed and drifting off into sleep and someone breaks into your home, how do you tell the difference between that kind of invasion and a simple home intrusion?

I don't think you can tell the difference. I don't think you can risk taking the time to ask if the person is just there to borrow a cup of sugar, and that is why it is ALWAYS a very bad idea to teach your kids that even sometimes it is OK to rob people's homes.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 29 2020 23:22 utc | 189

450.org @ 154:

Adrian Zenz's report on the sterilisation of Uyghur women is funded by The Jamestown Foundation whose board members included retired US military generals, former US intel employees and one individual who is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and who acted from 1994 to 1998 as special advisor to the US Mission in Bosnia-Hercegovina.

The Guardian says Zenz undertook his report based on public documents found from "scouring China's internet". That doesn't really say much about the quality of his research. For all we know, he could have been cherry-picking data on Chinese-based or Chinese-language online sources that happen to agree with what he set out to do. What The Guardian says Zenz has done really does not sound so different from what the much-discredited Eliot Higgins and his Bellingcat organisation do in selectively choosing supposedly open-source data of dubious provenance which for all we know might have been planted deliberately on websites to lead people astray.

For the past 20 - 30 years, sources close to the Falun Gong cult have been claiming that the Chinese government has been harvesting organs from political prisoners. Yet during that period, no sources independent of Falun Gong and its media organisations (The Epoch Times, New Tang Dynasty among others) have been able to demonstrate that this is what Beijing does clandestinely.

Also be advised that The Guardian newspaper is close to British security services and may not necessarily be impartial in reporting on issues in which British intel may have an interest. Former deputy editor Paul Johnson apparently had a seat on the D-Notice Committee from 2014 to 2018.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 29 2020 23:25 utc | 190

@ Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2020 23:00 utc | 185

If it makes you feel better, then I'll call it now: those protests going on the USA right now will fail. They will fail for one single reason: they don't have organization.

Happy now?

On the subject, I agree with Crooke (except with this Protestantism bullshit, which is a Weberian myth). The West already was in economic decline since 2008. Now its time for soft power decline.

The Western people, however, is still in denial: they still vomit their personal opinions on the internet as if they were the torch bearers of Rousseau and Diderot, when, in actuality, they aren't worth shit.

Western (First World) arrogance will still stay with us for a while.

Posted by: vk | Jun 29 2020 23:26 utc | 191

I don’t disagree masks can be partially effective in reducing transmission. However, given what we know now from CDC own data, its mortality rate being not much more than the flu for anyone not in a nursing home or older people suffering from other serious disease, we must consider the safety of wearing masks for prolonged period.

Man needs oxygen. Where are the studies of masks snd oxygen levels to prove they are safe?.

According to This “Human beings must breathe oxygen . . . to survive, and begin to suffer adverse health effects when the oxygen level of their breathing air drops below [19.5 percent oxygen]. Below 19.5 percent oxygen . . . , air is considered oxygen-deficient. At concentrations of 16 to 19.5 percent, workers engaged in any form of exertion can rapidly become symptomatic as their tissues fail to obtain the oxygen necessary to function properly (Rom, W., Environmental and Occupational Medicine, 2nd ed.; Little, Brown; Boston, 1992). “

I would say mask wearing can be dangerous for those with heart or lung disease (of which there are many), young children (under 2) and anyone engaged in manual labor or exercise, or who has a respiratory infection.

Furthermore, in just the last week on 2 occasions I have seen people remove their mask to sneeze or blow their nose.

And ask yourself, someone with a running nose that causes the mask to get wet with mucus, how effective is that mask then?

Where I am its 95 deg F. I sweat. My mask gets wet with my sweat. Pretty sure its not effective then but I must wear it.

People will try and save on cost of masks and reuse then. They then become virus collectors and probably spread virus.

What next? Hair can collect viruses in the air. A breeze can blow the virus from the hair into your eyes (unprotected by masks). Mandatory haircuts for all?

Suck it up and move on. There were more deaths from flu in 1957 with half the population. I managed to survive without masks or lockdowns. Same in 1968. Schools remained open. Churches too. You could visit grandma in a nursing home (unless you were sick). We all survived (except for the ones who didn’t). After that flu became less severe for decades. I didn’t get the flu again for 30 years. Haven’t had another for 20 years (no flu shots either)

Also, those elderly in nursing homes that accounted for 40% of deaths all had the Fluad flu shot per policy (approved for elderly only and with a super adjuvant to stimulate immune system- and cytokine storm killed many with Covid). Most elderly outside of nursing homes get the run of mill free FLU shot at CVS, if then (not 100% take it) . Death rate from COVID more than 10 times lower.

A curious thing too, during lockdown there were fewer vaccinations for children. Deaths dropped 30%. In Italy there were no SIDS deaths until they reopened and kids started getting shots again. Correlation is not always causation but thats worth a study.

Posted by: Kay Fabe | Jun 29 2020 23:38 utc | 192

@Gruff,

I was once a punk-ass suburban teenage brat in midwest suburbia where all the houses looked the same and one way I rebelled against that was "garage hopping". my friends and I would sneak out at night to exploit the sense of suburban safety that caused people to forget to close their garages. we were mostly just looking for beer, but some of my pals could be real assholes. we got chased a few times, deservedly, but that was of course part of the fun.

a few years ago a similar situation resulted in my parents neighborhood, but the result was fatal. a German exchange student was doing exactly what I was doing, but the home owner had baited him and was waiting with a shotgun. the kid was killed, the man tried claiming some stand your ground defense, but he was convicted because he had chased the kid out of the garage and shot him in the driveway.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 29 2020 23:46 utc | 193

Hmm ... reading the various comments on how to distinguish home burglaries from home invasions, I should think the one thing missing from the discussion is the notion of intent on the part of those involved in such actions.

After all, we use the notion of intent to decide whether a killing of a human being is either a murder or a case of manslaughter, since the punishments for such crimes are different.

A home burglary can turn violent and perhaps involve kidnapping (if the burglar takes a hostage) but if the burglar had not intended violence or kidnapping, was carrying a weapon to get inside the home, and whatever transpired next when the burglar was caught happened in the heat of the moment, people did stupid things and tragedy occurs, then that might not be considered a home invasion.

We would not say that a drug addict who commits burglary to get money to fund a habit was involved in a "home invasion". The usual meaning of "home invasion" in the recent past involves intent on the part of the perpetrator to get something and to use whatever means necessary (including violence or kidnapping) to get it.

But what constitutes a "home invasion" is so fluid these days, the way it is often used in mainstream news media by reporters who might be parroting from a script, the term is almost becoming meaningless.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 29 2020 23:51 utc | 194

William Gruff @189--

I'd never teach anyone it's okay to rob another, although it's the policy of the Outlaw US Empire to do that exact thing. My daughter recently lived in an area populated by tweakers--Meth Heads--and had her car broken into and its gas siphoned on several occasions. She even heard someone trying to gain entrance while she was at home. Yes, she's armed. Yes, I 100% approve. Yes, she says she knows how to use her weapon, but I haven't worked with her on that yet since we've been apart since she acquired it. Legally, there's a difference between states as some classify home invasion as a higher felony, which I agree with. It's hard to preach International Law & Order without advocating the same at home. And we both agree that the biggest violators of said law are the 1%, although they aren't the most numerous. IMO we also agree that most illegalities are structural/systemic in their causation--if people's needs were satisfied, most crime would never occur. Same goes with education and the entire Social Contract. Someone once said Justice and Fairness are close to being one and the same. We have crime because of unfair, unjust conditions that are Structural. Fortunately, most nations aren't as dysfunctional as the Outlaw US Empire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2020 23:59 utc | 195

bevin @180: "One thing that Proudhon was right about: "Property is theft.""

Except the issue isn't "property". I very specifically used the term HOME, which can be a rented apartment or even a cardboard box under a highway overpass.

As karlof1 points out, one's responsibility under "Common Law" is to "retreat until against the wall" when attacked, but when that attack is in your home, whether it is a McMansion, an apartment, or a cardboard box, where is there to retreat to?

Home invasion will continue to be a crime regardless of how society changes, and criminalizing self-defense in one's home will forever be a tough sell that will guaranteed alienate every rational person who locks their doors at night (I didn't lock my genkan door when I lived in Japan, and there was only paper shoji (sliding doors) between that and the rest of the house). You can fix society so that nobody ever feels threatened enough to use lethal force to defend themselves from another person, but you cannot do that by trying to address the defending part first.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 30 2020 0:01 utc | 196

Putting the tory lite Keir Starmer as boss of the UK Labour party to replace Mr Corbyn has actually intensified the 'anti-semite' garbage that involved the party in endless purges.
Rebecca Long-Bailey the Corbyn nominee for leader was runner up in the leadership vote and therefore had to be given a spot in the shadow cabinet so the coup wouldn't appear to be what it was, an undemocratic move to force the party back into pointless neoliberalism.

Her days were numbered and she has just been given the flick by Keir Starmer. Her crime? Retweeting a tweet of actress Maxine Peake which highlighted the role that israel had in training George Floyd's murderers. That was antisemitic apparently.
Worst of all is the apologetic cringing attitude Long-Bailey has adopted (which can be found here) worse than anything Mr Corbyn did which should have been the lesson. Don't back down the murderers & rapists who occupy Palestine are the evildoers, showing obeisance to them or their bribed puppets is only going to make it worse.

Posted by: A User | Jun 30 2020 0:14 utc | 197

karlof1 @185: "Are there any barflies willing to admit they're "Woke"? Or is that just another label the Establishment Narrative's trying to use for its own purposes?"

Sadly, "woke" is just another form of sleep. Desperate efforts are being made by the capitalists through their mass media (infotainment too, but mostly through their supposedly "pure" entertainment) to cement "Identity Politics" in place of class consciousness and center what remains of left ideology around that neoliberal core.

"Get woke; go broke" is the rule of the day. Ask yourself why for-profit capitalist businesses are so manically driven to destroy their own customer loyalty in an effort to force feed "Identity Politics" to those consumers? If "Identity Politics" didn't serve capitalist interests in some other way (ideological, of course) then they would not be sacrificing profits to try and promote it.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 30 2020 0:17 utc | 198

Kay Fabe @Jun29 23:38 #192

You're complaints are just variants on the same BS we've seen over and over again.

I don’t disagree masks can be partially effective

You're damning masks with faint praise is problematic. Masks don't have to be 100% effective. They just need to be effective enough to drop the infection rate (known as R0) below 1. At which point, the virus outbreak will peter out.

=
its mortality rate being not much more than the flu

Those who are less likely to die are vectors to those who are more likely to die.

=
Man needs oxygen.

The reduction in oxygen when wearing a mask is insubstantial.

<> <> <> <> <>

See Covid Myth-busting link from Richard Steven Hack @Jun29 4:42 #96

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 30 2020 0:18 utc | 199

Gruff splitting hairs again. The idea that a home is some sort of castle rather than just a place to eat sleep & shit, lies at the heart of capitalist excess.

I followed the link to the article on the two lawyers and their simpering attitude towards the family of robber-barons who built that tasteless mish-mash they claim is a home but is actually just the usual tax avoiding scam theft, the only difference is they seem to robbed the entire planet to build that monument to amerikan bad taste. They should have their 'home' confiscated, then used for something which all the community derives pleasure. Scum!

Supporting such a reactionary position to the point where it is OK to shoot & kill some desperately hungry kid who has no interest in anything other than eating and has made no direct attempt to cause personal harm, reveals a reactionary personality.

Gruff claims to support direct revolutionary action but doesn't believe the elite should be disturbed in their 'villas'. Hah.

Posted by: A User | Jun 30 2020 0:29 utc | 200

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