Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 14, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-47

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

> Our analysis reveals that the difference with and without mandated face covering represents the determinant in shaping the trends of the pandemic. This protective measure significantly reduces the number of infections. Other mitigation measures, such as social distancing implemented in the United States, are insufficient by themselves in protecting the public. <

---
Other issues:

Economy:

A Crash in the Dollar Is Coming - Stephen Roach / Bloomberg
"The Stock Market Is Deluding Itself" - Nouriel Roubini / Spiegel

Censorship:

Narrative Control Operations Escalate As America Burns - Caitlin Johnstone

PayPal have banned the words “Syria”, “Iran” and “Palestine” in all transaction messages. Payments fall ‘under review’.
Today Twitter announced the takedown of 7,340 accounts linked to the youth wing of the Justice and Development Party (AKP), Turkey’s ruling party 🇹🇷. My SIO team, w/ @akis_alp, @makrevis, @JoshAGoldstein, and Katie Jonsson, analyzed the network
Twitter partnered with ASPI—a think tank funded by the US military—to ban 170k accounts run by real Chinese people for writing in Chinese, praising China's COVID response, or criticizing the HK protests.
This is the "free speech" & "democracy" that the US wants to export abroad.
This is incredibly alarming. Twitter says the accounts were "spreading geopolitical narratives favorable to the Communist Party of China", such as praising China's response to COVID-19, along with "antagonizing" the US and Hong Kong's protests. Only anti-China views allowed!
The censors at @Facebook are systematically erasing the accounts of Palestinian journalists and photographers: electronicintifada.net/content/facebo…
Facebook should be nationalized then immediately shut down, IMO. Far too much power.

Fun:

Suggested Slogans for the Biden Campaign - New Yorker

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on June 14, 2020 at 13:00 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Richard Steven Hack@56

As someone with a particular interest in the Yellow Fever outbreaks in Philadelphia in the 1790s I have noticed that while Philadelphia doctors, led by Benjamin Rush, prescribed a mercury plus bleeding regime that was deadly, practitioners from the tropics (Philippines and San Domingo) suggested a course of treatment, heavy on nursing and careful attention to the patient's nutrition, which included quinine.
While I regard the Trump/Jackrabbit promotion of Hydroxychloroquine as idiotic I would not be surprised if it did not prove to be a useful part of the treatment for this virus and play a part in reducing the mortality rate.
The real failing of the neo-liberals during this outbreak has been that the system has been incapable of mobilising the trained labour demanded by increased ICU use. At the root of neo-liberalism lies a deep and vengeful hatred of the working class, most particularly those like nurses with a tradition of organisation and a sense of their power.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 15 2020 15:00 utc | 101

Posted by: bevin | Jun 15 2020 15:00 utc | 106

Turkey seems to have had success treating patients early with Chloroquninine.
https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-model-proves-effective-in-covid-19-treatment-154220

"in addition to chloroquine, an antibiotic, called azithromycin, is used in the early stages of the treatment,"

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 15 2020 15:39 utc | 102

@94 but what does that civics 101 stuff have to do w/the way the country actually runs? elected officials themselves mostly can't bother to show up for the legislature, at least per any CSPAN type thing I ever saw, so what does the legal order established in the US Constitution have to do with anything? why be concerned about a delusion, like "the rule of law"? People rule, they use laws. nations aren't real. the constitution is, after all, just a goddam piece of paper, except as animated by a collective belief that we have clearly never had. Sheep and calves put their faith in laws (Hamlet). everything these killer cops are doing is already illegal, many times over. so what? it's a crime to hide a crime, esp murder, as police everywhere, even in Georgia, know. They are abetting murder, an accomplice after the fact. they all know this, all of them. the attempt to cover up the crime proves it. (of course, as an ideal, the law has great value and there is great stuff in the "US founding docs". but nothing happens because of "the law". in its application, the law is a tool of state power, its ideals weaponized hypocrisy. fucking rule of law bullshit. I know when "STOP" means "GO", unlike a goddam computer. i stop at a crosswalk because i don't want to plow into those kids, not because of that idiotic red sign.)

oh yeah, need to lose the delusion that social services in the US help anybody. they make pointless jobs for people who provide the illusion that this society cares. some one or two people are helped, but it's for show. most are eternally lost in a bureaucracy that controls when one can pee. without family support and resources, negotiating the "welfare" system of the US is a Tartarean nightmare.
and, like so much here in this city on a hill, a gigantic, intentional waste of time.

Posted by: jason | Jun 15 2020 15:54 utc | 103

tuyzentfloot 34 sorry, I noticed the link was missing in my post, had no time.

From Berruyer’s Les Crises, he is always super accurate / careful. In French.

scroll down a bit to see the numbers. (the rest is interesting as well.)

https://www.les-crises.fr/mortalite-letalite-ce-qu-on-peut-dire-sur-le-covid-19-par-olivier-berruyer/

t. at 39, yeah, just those sent to ICU. I’m posting this though cos the link was missing.

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 15 2020 16:44 utc | 104

@ 107 Blue Dotterel .. thanks for sharing that...

Posted by: james | Jun 15 2020 16:57 utc | 105

@Richard Steven Hack, what you are calling realistic I call militarized. The military also have their logic when stopping a car with a civilian. It could also be an insurgent. Why not use the military everywhere? You stop a car and it could be an 'insurgent' and it could be a civilian. the military have their own logic on how to do it properly(even when on the ground it's different). Why is that logic not transferable to domestic cases? If you're a civilian you should be safe no?
If police training is security obsessed then every citizen is treated as a threat. The police policies and attitude shift to being an occupation army. This satisfies its own logic, you can't prove them wrong. But the solution is for the police to be less security obsessed. As little as possible and in some areas you can afford this more than in others. But it does mean that you accept a calculated risk.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jun 15 2020 17:18 utc | 106

Thanks Noirette, I've encountered that site before. I'll check it out.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jun 15 2020 17:21 utc | 107

@ Steven Hack and Pretzelattack 81, 82, 84, 85

The recommended distance for lethal defense against a knife attack was, in fact, increased from 21 feet to 30 feet. I believe Massad Ayoob, proprietor of Lethal Force Institute, had quite a bit to do with that, and he's probably the world's leading expert on use of, and defense against, all kinds of lethal weapons.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 15 2020 17:48 utc | 108

Trump’s Halting Walk Down Ramp Raises New Health Questions
The president also appeared to have trouble raising a glass of water to his mouth during a speech at West Point a day before he turned 74, the oldest a president has been in his first term.
-----
We will have a race of a turtle and a snail? [Trump walked cautiously, but he did not totter or anything. But in the latest ads, Biden seems quite refurbished too. He will not forget where the teleprompter is... probably.]

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 15 2020 18:03 utc | 109

Two policemen are enforcing a curfew. A man passes them by, trying to get home. He’s in much hurry to beat the curfew. He’s also carrying a bag of groceries, huffing, and puffing.
Policeman number one takes out his gun and shoots the man in the back.
When policeman number two objects, policeman number one says: “ I knew that guy. He’d never make it home by curfew time.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jun 15 2020 14:32 utc | 100

Once I read a selection from short accident descriptions thet Canadian drivers have to submit in cases that involve insurance claim. I memorized two;

Suddenly, a stop sign appeared where it had not been before.

I knew that this old man will not make it to the other side of the street. [pre-cognition can kill]

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 15 2020 18:09 utc | 110

Important update on "qualified immunity" doctrine:


"The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday declined to hear several cases involving a longstanding legal doctrine giving police officers and other government officials sweeping immunity from civil lawsuits, a decision that comes in the midst of a nationwide uprising against police brutality and racial injustice."

Here's a more in-depth article on the doctrine with many additional links. "To establish Justice," the doctrine will need to be severely curtailed if not 100% rejected. To refuse to act on the cases before it contesting the doctrine, the US Supreme Court showed yet again its deafness to fundamental socio-political issues of major import. One goal the protesters now need to push for is Congressional action to void the doctrine--there can't be one exemption for one small subsection of the populace that excludes all others.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 15 2020 18:22 utc | 111

A few weeks ago, I linked to a transcript of Putin's meeting dealing with government priorities in face of COVID-19 to support Russia and Russians. Today another conference was held with its transcript linked. As usual, my purpose is to show the dramatically different approaches to governing and government priorities between Putin's government and the Neoliberal policies of the Outlaw US Empire. After reminding attendees about previously discussed things that "are purely technical internal things to do with management", Putin provides the meeting's goal:

"However, what really matters is the result and how tangible and timely the support is to individuals, families and companies, and what they think about the effectiveness of these measures as they apply to them and their friends, families and colleagues.

"Therefore, today, I asked you to bring in people from all walks of life who received social benefits or decided to take advantage of mortgage benefits or salary grants to pay their employees. Based on what they tell us, we will be able to identify the successful solutions that need to be replicated in our future work and the problems that need our attention and, maybe, adjustments to our policies." [My Emphasis]

IMO, what's described is the essence of democracy: Direct feedback on policy from the bottom to top in order to make adjustments and improve services to the public. A Process that's broken bigtime within the Outlaw US Empire that's one of the main spurs to the protests.

What I see happening in Russia is a form of Collectivist-Libertarianism in action. Putin has said on many occasions that people are free to express their individuality--indeed, he actively promotes that way of thinking--as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others to express themselves--people can hold most any belief as long as they don't proselytize and force others to conform.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 15 2020 18:51 utc | 112

"I believe Massad Ayoob, proprietor of Lethal Force Institute, had quite a bit to do with that, and he's probably the world's leading expert on use of, and defense against, all kinds of lethal weapons."

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 15 2020 17:48 utc | 113

....

"The Worlds Leading Expert" gave me a laugh. More like Peak Bullshit spewing from Western indoctrinated broken minds. Doesn't sound very "AntiSpin" to me?

Seriously the transition from "expert" to "leading expert" is nothing but spin bullshit- but I suppose the Western Mind resonates with being the "foremost experts" of garbage labeling to somehow substantiate authenticity. Honest humility has been usurped with lies and titles.

Toxic Sludge is Good For YOU !

Posted by: CitizenX | Jun 15 2020 19:28 utc | 113

This is an interesting article tying the vast US intelligence community to early US inaction on COVID-19. Trump has complained that it is China's fault that he was ignorant about the virus.
Was the Coronavirus Outbreak an Intelligence Failure? . .here

. . .But the main burden for pandemic detection within the intelligence community falls on little-known agencies, like the National Center for Medical Intelligence. It is a part of the Department of Defense that tracks emerging diseases, bioterrorist threats and the medical capabilities of other countries.
Beyond the intelligence community, the U.S. has a complex system of civilian medical and public-health information collection, coordinated by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 15 2020 22:56 utc | 114

Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Jun 15 2020 14:15 utc | 97 Being a pig in the US is not that dangerous.

I was comparing it to Britain's police.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 16 2020 0:21 utc | 115

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 15 2020 14:50 utc | 103 Something to add to your list
https://medium.com/incerto/the-masks-masquerade-7de897b517b7

Good one, thanks. Nassim Taleb. He tweeted about the multiplicative effects on Twitter a while back which I think b noted.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 16 2020 0:23 utc | 116

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 15 2020 17:48 utc | 113 The recommended distance for lethal defense against a knife attack was, in fact, increased from 21 feet to 30 feet. I believe Massad Ayoob, proprietor of Lethal Force Institute, had quite a bit to do with that, and he's probably the world's leading expert on use of, and defense against, all kinds of lethal weapons.

Yes, I've read a lot of stuff from him in the past. He has a regular column on the legal aspects of self-defense with a firearm in one of the gun mags.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 16 2020 0:28 utc | 117

@ CitizenX | Jun 15 2020 19:28 utc | 118

Whatever it was that you were trying to say did not make it through the random, opaque verbiage you posted, but perhaps this response will get us closer to any obscure thought that might have gone into it -- who would you rate above Ayoob, and why?

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 16 2020 0:46 utc | 118

To add to Noirette's articles at 30 which is recommended reading.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/norway-health-chief-lockdown-was-not-needed-to-tame-covid>Norway Health Chief Says Lockdowns Not Needed


https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/28/863944333/antibody-tests-point-to-lower-death-rate-for-the-coronavirus-than-first-thought?utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR2pflAGc1mR2fl3-US8mWa85JdQfjx1Z2g3-b1WimYTuOXs-njO-sva1rc>Antibody Tests Point To Lower Mortality For Covid19

Excerpt: "[...] But the Norwegian public health authority has published a report with a striking conclusion: the virus was never spreading as fast as had been feared and was already on the way out when lockdown was ordered. ‘It looks as if the effective reproduction rate had already dropped to around 1.1 when the most comprehensive measures were implemented on 12 March, and that there would not be much to push it down below 1… [...]"

With links to other articles of interest.


As far as the utility of wearing masks goes. It is certainly useful. For full effect however, masks should be:

Put on and never touched till taking them off because no longer needed.

Wearing a mask but continually touching it and moving it about, defeats the purpose of limiting contagion.

Masks will saturate with humidity from breathing into it. Different masks have different saturation levels and times. Once saturated, a larger volume of air will move in/out through the gaps.

Finally, the work of Dr. John Ioannidis, Dr. Michael Levitt and Dr. Itzhak Ben Israel is worth reading up on.

Lock downs were unnecessary.

Remember too:

Norway also found out after the fact that they participated in the Libya campaign without sufficient prior research.

https://www.newsinenglish.no/2018/09/14/ex-ministers-regret-bombing-not-jens/>Norway Finds Out It Was Bamboozled

Remember too:

Y2K
Weapons of mass destruction
Foot & Mouth
Mad Cow
TARP
Libya
Syria
Skripals
Russia interference

All instances of "experts" peddling ignorance/agenda.

Too late for some of us of course. There is little comfort in realising, once again, we've been had.

Posted by: guidoamm | Jun 16 2020 4:55 utc | 119

Oh!

And remember the infection and mortality rates aboard the cruise ships of course.

Posted by: guidoamm | Jun 16 2020 4:59 utc | 120

Mike Whitney ponders the imponderable
https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/do-deep-state-elements-operate-within-the-protest-movement/

"So, according to the Times, the problem isn’t single parent families, or underfunded education or limited job opportunities or fractured neighborhoods, it’s the cops who have nothing to do with any of these problems. Are we supposed to take this seriously, because the editors of the Times certainly do. They’d like us to believe that there is groundswell support for this loony idea, but there isn’t. In a recent poll, more than 60% of those surveyed, oppose the idea of defunding the police. So why would such an unpopular, wacko idea wind up as the headline op-ed in the Saturday edition? Well, because the Times is doing what it always does, advancing the political agenda of the elites who hold the purse-strings and dictate which ideas are promoted and which end up on the cutting room floor"

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 16 2020 5:24 utc | 121

A quick word on antifa from Germany, where a group of the same name is a long-standing presence, and a big chip within the radical left. Its self-proclaimed mission is to resist against awaking nazi spectres, butin the grey zone they operate in, they are sometimes indistuingishable from organized hooligans willing to go rough for a purpose; not very different from the third Reich's SA troops actually, and evidently not always really well-informed about the nature of their targets, typically using generic prerogatives - "nazi!" - to initiate a direct action, but not a debatable argument. Of course, such groups are great tools for many shady applications if a systematically hidden influence behind them can pull the right strings.

As it stands, this does seem to be the case, though can only validate the point on strong anecdotal evidence. I heard a first-hand account who witnessed an antifa raid (breaking stuff to disrupt some organized event) with strong police forces in the vicinity, where he overheard a radio exchange: an order was stated to let antifa roam free, and not to apprehend them later.

Another interesting and closely related case is a leftist group called the "anti-germans". Their agenda prominently features a die-hard pro Israel stance, so it's no big stretch to suspect organized interests behind this movement. In one case, an apparent team effort beetween them and local media powerhouse Springer saw them entering a fledgling political party called the "pirates" and start causing havoc, while precisely media efforts gave fire support. It ended with the party falling apart and disappearing from the small set of serious contenders for the 5% rule that is generally used here.

So, my point that you should probably anticipate that antifa in the US might essentially be a tool of hidden interests; the affiliation of which remains anyone's guess.

Posted by: persiflo | Jun 16 2020 6:23 utc | 122

Oh!

And gloves!

Unless you change gloves every time you touch something, then wearing gloves has no effect on limiting the contagion.

The combination of a mask saturated with moisture and you touching your mask wearing gloves that have touched other surfaces or objects, is not a good idea.

In the context of hindering the spread of the virus, gloves are useless.

Posted by: guidoamm | Jun 16 2020 8:20 utc | 123

Posted by: guidoamm | Jun 16 2020 8:20 utc | 129

In general, yes, the mask does the protecting. Some wear face shields to prevent themselves from touching their eyes and also from droplets with virus entering through the eyes.

Gloves can be useful for workers in markets placing fruits and vegetables in plastic bags, but as soon as you touch suspect surfaces outside or inside, the gloves can carry the contamination. The idea is to wash your hands regularly or carry a small bottle of cologne(80%)and use this on your hands when you are out for a while before touching face, etc, should that be necessary.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 16 2020 8:37 utc | 124

So now this blog is accepting the wisdom of Massad Ayoob, editor of GUNS magazine and AMERICAN HANDGUNNER magazine. No pushback from anyone here.
It should be crystal clear by now who is a gun nut and who is a right wing nut job.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 16 2020 11:53 utc | 125

another slight crack in the sanction dam

Posted by: arby | Jun 16 2020 14:23 utc | 126

Whats going in France? Arab and Chechen gangs have some kind of street war with heavy weapons.

Apparently a chechen youth were killed by the arab gang and the chechen took some revenge?

Perhaps Laguerre could help us clarifying.

Posted by: Zanon | Jun 16 2020 19:00 utc | 127

"Whatever it was that you were trying to say did not make it through the random, opaque verbiage you posted, but perhaps this response will get us closer to any obscure thought that might have gone into it -- who would you rate above Ayoob, and why?"

"he's probably the world's leading expert on..."
Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 16 2020 0:46 utc | 118

...

Yes the "worlds foremost supreme ultimate expert of all experts ever in the universe of experts". Get my drift? Monty Python?

I would not "rate" anyone above or below Ayoob, I've owned and read several of his books. I don't "rate" people or any information they may have or share. That is a western mind sickness. The West is full of utter garbage about "experts".

For the immature Western mind came the concept of "belts" for martial Arts. Belts are complete bullshit but they fit into the corrupt education system which pretends that some title gives you authenticity and status. There is no "worlds leading expert" on anything- never has been and never will be- ego rot is more like it.

I found it amusing that your tag is Antispin when you peddle spin b.s.

Book reads-
"Toxic Sludge is Good for you" or "Post Truth- Peak Bullshit" come to mind. I prefer cutting through b.s. rather than swimming in derangement.

Posted by: CitizenX | Jun 16 2020 19:56 utc | 128

I don't know what is going on at the India/China border but the posting below at Xinhuanet seems like before the 20 India folk dead I am reading elsewhere.

"
BEIJING, June 16 (Xinhua) -- A Chinese military spokesperson said Tuesday the Indian side should strictly restrain their frontline troops and return to the correct track of dialogue and negotiations to resolve the differences.

Zhang Shuili, spokesperson for the Western Theater Command of the People's Liberation Army (PLA), made the remarks in a statement in response to a fierce physical fight that broke out between the Chinese and Indian border defense troops Monday night after Indian troops crossed the Line of Actual Control for illegal activities and deliberately launched provocative attacks.

The statement was published by the official Weibo account of the PLA Daily.

"The Indian troops had violated their promises and once again crossed the Line of Actual Control for illegal activities, and deliberately provoked and attacked the Chinese forces, thus triggering fierce physical conflicts between the two sides and causing casualties," said Zhang.

"We demand that the Indian side strictly restrain its frontline troops, immediately stop all infringement and provocative actions, and work together with China to return to the correct track of dialogue and negotiations to resolve the differences," said Zhang.
"

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 17 2020 5:23 utc | 129

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 17 2020 5:23 utc | 129

It's happening that India provocations lead to re-open a very bad situation..that unfortunately is escalating quickly..now it's clear the new empire vassal is India.The problem is that here in my opinion we don't have improvised headchoppers or poorly armed states involved.

Posted by: LuBa | Jun 17 2020 9:46 utc | 130

#43 Sakineh Bagoom,60#Patroklos,

Yes,as indo european languages German and Farsi,and so many others are related.Funny that Patrojklos mentions daughter languages.The word daughter itself is a perfect illustration of the relation.Dukhtar in Farsi,Töchter in German,dochter in Dutch,Thugater in Greek.

Patroklos,and Jason,I am completely on your line regarding money.Money is the greatest scam of all,and there will not be any significant progres in the civilisations of the world,if we do not develop a very different attitude to it.Indeed,Jesus chasing the merchants from the Temple courtyard.This needs a mindbreak to understand.

Posted by: willie | Jun 17 2020 11:00 utc | 131

Citizen X--
yes on the expert stuff..

I have friends send me articles that refute what I sent them. Many times the articles have "experts say" as their only evidence.

Posted by: arby | Jun 17 2020 13:02 utc | 132

arby @Jun17 13:02 #132

I have friends ...

I have friends who have become Tucker Carlson clones.

They claim to "look at the data", are "shocked" at strange goings-on from the left, and liberally (or rather, neo-liberally) employ what-aboutisms to defeat lefty positions. But the data is often cherry-picked, the critical view is generally in one direction only, and the what aboutisms are just establishment-sanctioned stubborness. The establishment has created a system that works wonderfully on their behalf and they will brook no real change.

One Tucker clone told me that I shouldn't "drink the kool-aid" from MSM. LOL!

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 17 2020 14:18 utc | 133

Yeah, I get that stuff too. Stop reading whackos was one.

Posted by: arby | Jun 17 2020 14:24 utc | 134

#91 Blue Kayak

Do not answer to Hack's posts.It is not all bullshit,but he is not a real person.He is an artificial (low-level because he has to be able to convince americans over here)intelligence operated in a vast experimental CIA authored trolling experiment.So RSH/it poses as a person,living in San Francisco.His favorite motto"the only good cop is a dead cop" and he wants to provoke you saying that,so your FEMA guys will be able to roll you up,and they'll have proof so as to put you in prison,after a slight change of rules.

Posted by: willie | Jun 17 2020 14:59 utc | 135

@ CitizenX | Jun 16 2020 19:56 utc | 128

"For the immature Western mind came the concept of "belts" for martial Arts. Belts are complete bullshit but they fit into the corrupt education system which pretends that some title gives you authenticity and status."

I earned my shodan (first degree) black belt in Okinawan karate -- in Okinawa -- in the mid-50s. Belts did not originate in some immature Western mind like yours, they originated in Okinawa and, for judo (which I also studied), in schools like the Kodokan in Tokyo. There is a very old photo floating around the interwebs of Jigoro Kano himself, practicing with Kyuzu Mifune, both of them wearing black belts.

So your quarrel is not with me, it is with persons like sensei Kano, and sensei Toguchi, both of whom were far better and far more knowledgeable human beings than you could ever hope to be.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 17 2020 16:02 utc | 136

Follow-up to 136:

"Pedagogical innovations attributed to Kanō include the use of black and white belts, and the introduction of dan ranking to show the relative ranking among members of a martial art style."
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kan%C5%8D_Jigor%C5%8D )

That happened in the early 1900s, when very few westerners had even heard of any asian martial arts.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 17 2020 17:23 utc | 137

"I earned my shodan (first degree) black belt in Okinawan karate -- in Okinawa -- in the mid-50s. Belts did not originate in some immature Western mind like yours, they originated in Okinawa

So your quarrel is not with me, it is with persons like sensei Kano, and sensei Toguchi, both of whom were far better and far more knowledgeable human beings than you could ever hope to be."

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 17 2020 16:02 utc | 136

...

Okinawa 1950's you say, Okinawa the colony of USA? Curious what you were doing in Okinawa at that time? Belts did not originate in Okinawa either.

Kano, the founder of Judo was a career Educator-
"In January 1898, Kanō was appointed director of primary education at the Ministry of Education, and in August 1899, he received a grant that allowed him to study in Europe. He spent about a year in Europe, and during this trip, he visited Paris, Berlin, Brussels, Amsterdam, and London. He returned to Japan in 1901. Soon after returning to Japan, he resumed his post as president of Tokyo Higher Normal School, and he remained in this position until his retirement on 16 January 1920.
Kanō's educational philosophy was a combination of both traditional Japanese neo-Confucianism and contemporary European and American philosophies, to include Instrumentalism, Utilitarianism, and "evolutionary progressivism", as Social Darwinism was then known."

"As practitioners trained in a kimono, only white and black obi were used. It was not until the early 1900s, after the introduction of the judogi, that other colours were added. Other martial arts later adopted the custom. This includes martial arts that traditionally did not have a formalised rank structure. This kind of ranking is less common in arts that do not claim a far Eastern origin, though it is used in the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program."

Interesting that AFTER Kanos European travels and studies the color belt system was introduced. A career systemic educator influenced by Western culture devising colored belts as certificates of training.

Prior to Kano's creation of Judo, other older Samurai martial arts used a five level ranking system called a Menkyo or licence system. A certificate was issued but no outward display of rank was used. Professor Kano saw that games such a the Japanese strategy game of "Go" ranked its players for competition and that Japanese swimmers who were more advanced wore a "black ribbon" around their waist. Kano then set about adding a rank structure to Judo. Originally in 1883 Kano only had two belts, White and Black. White was for students and Black was for teachers or advanced. There were no Black Belt or "Dan" grades as of yet. The original Black Belts were not like the belts that we wear today. They were a wide "Obi" or belt that was originally worn over the kimono to keep it closed and to hold the swords of the samurai. Kano then added a three under black Belt ranks. It wasn't until the 1930's or 40's that a European martial artist came up with the colored belt system that we base things on today with colors such as white, yellow, orange, Green, purple blue, Red ect.


Posted by: CitizenX | Jun 17 2020 17:48 utc | 138

@ CitX Jun 17 2020 17:48 utc | 138

So, you concede that "the concept of 'belts' for martial Arts," as you put it, originated in asia, and not in the west. And certainly not by "immature minds" like yours.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 17 2020 19:55 utc | 139

Nope-
the colored belt concept system was established in the West, for the West as I laid out for you, research it yourself. I'm surprised that a purported "black belt expert" such as yourself does not understand the development of belts, let alone Martial Spirit. Likely the outcome from a military indoctrinated mind as yourself? Clearly a black belt is not a certificate for good character.

Black belts are being handed out like candy in the West. By all means continue talking about "worlds leading gun experts"- from a military trained "judo expert" no less. Your spin is entertaining and shows your true character, which does not seem to have benefited from the ethos set out by the founder of judo-

"Since the very beginning, I had been categorizing Judo into three parts, rentai-ho, shobu-ho, and shushin-ho. Rentai-ho refers to Judo as a physical exercise, while shobu-ho is Judo as a martial art. Shushin-ho is the cultivation of wisdom and virtue as well as the study and application of the principles of Judo in our daily lives. I therefore anticipated that practitioners would develop their bodies in an ideal manner, to be outstanding in matches, and also to improve their wisdom and virtue and make the spirit of Judo live in their daily lives. We should also not forget to make full use of every opportunity during our practice to improve our wisdom and virtue. These are the ideal principles of my Judo." Kanō

Rock on old man- your wisdom is improving or non-existent? Hey are there colored belts for Spiritual Growth too?

Posted by: CitizenX | Jun 18 2020 18:06 utc | 140

Real activists in #USA #Seattle surrounding bronze statue of Lenin, by Bulgarian sculptor Emil Venkov, in a beautiful iconic photo no US, or foreign, mass media will ever broadcast...

https://twitter.com/jmalvarezblog/status/1272921609293225986

To debunk fake news spread by Fox News, Pat Lang, The Saker & CIA, on that all demonstrating activists are like those creating mayhem, arson, mafia ruled neighborhoods, looting or twerking before the police...

All those discrediting and denigrating black and white activists by their actions are highly likely badly payed drug addicts hired to that end, like the rapper collecting taxes, the "black phanter" delivering weapons to white youngsters, and this madam & her troupe...What vindications could a woman who behave ike this could pretend to have if she do not even know how to respect herself? She is obviously high on drugs...

https://twitter.com/ciudadfutura/status/1272945363629092866

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 18 2020 18:40 utc | 141

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