It's true ...
by lizard
hauled from a comment
I think this relevant to how fractured the discourse is. it's a repost from my litter watering hole.
I know it’s going to be difficult to accept what I’m about to say because people get very invested in their chosen narratives, but it’s important that you at least be exposed to the notion that it’s all true.
It’s true that people engaged in peaceful protests.
It’s true that people engaged in lawless looting.
It’s true that provocateurs have committed acts of vandalism and sometimes carry umbrellas.
It’s true that Antifa exists and that they don’t advocate gently placing flowers in the gaping hole of a long gun.
It’s true that some very messed up militia minded people call themselves Boogaloo Bois, wear Hawaiian shirts, and are showing up to add their brand of crazy to the mix.
It’s true looters come in all shades and sizes.
It’s true some desperate people are taking things they need.
It’s true some opportunistic people are taking things they want.
It’s true opportunistic government thugs suddenly shifted the Covid-19 rationale for using contract tracing to a catch-them-rioters rationale for using contract tracing.
It’s true the policy infrastructure for enacting martial law has been a long-term, bi-partisan project.
It’s true that now is the time to realize what’s at stake, but instead of acting collectively for our mutual benefit, the cognitive challenge of accepting that all these things can be true at the same time will keep us tied to one of these things to the exclusion of all the others.
It’s hard work, I know. But I have faith in you.
Posted by b on June 1, 2020 at 16:08 UTC | Permalink
next page »Thanks Lizard, very true, too bad we all can't get along, but with corporate dems ceding the last forty years to the repukes, here we are, doesn't seem like there's much hope to be gleaned and we're doomed to sit and watch to see if this is a turning point, very doubtful in my mind ??? And a big thanks to b, as well !!!
Posted by: terrorist lieberal | Jun 1 2020 16:20 utc | 2
it is nice to see lizards post hightlighted here... thanks lizard for suggesting you have faith in us in our acting collectively for all our mutual benefit..
Posted by: james | Jun 1 2020 16:27 utc | 3
Well said. It’s also true that anyone with an agenda will not let a crisis go to waste, all but drowning out the voices of those whose sole interest is justice.
Posted by: JohnH | Jun 1 2020 16:28 utc | 4
Encapsulating the Big Picture isn't all too difficult if one attunes their mind to enable that view. Unfortunately, the differing interpretations make it difficult to see the Class War underpinnings of events. IMO, the problems that need solving won't be until the great majority finally understand what the main driving force is--Class. All those other aspects listed by lizard are connected to the Machiavellian machinations used to manipulate the 99% against each other, and will continue to be used until the majority of the 99% reject them and focus on eliminating the Financial Parasitic Class seeking to enslave them into Debt Peonage.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 1 2020 16:36 utc | 5
Well, an effort is required by the demonstrators and their leaderships - thru the social media as well- to....
a)refrain from looting and that specifically the the small properties is a stupidity that will backfire quickly!
b) the demonstrations leaders must organize their own security
squads to prevent provocateurs from outside.
Fm these tasks the 1st one is rather difficult to reach, yes.The second one is much easier.
acting collectively for all our mutual benefit..
@Posted by: james | Jun 1 2020 16:27 utc | 3
I do not find any mutual collective benefit in acting collectivelly with the kind of Pat Lang, who only dreams of seeing ( and in fact has dedicated his life to erase them and has been genrously rewarde by that..) every communist dead since the very first minute he put a foot in Vietnam and charged his backpack with such bagage of hatred.
Antifascism is not a group, is an idea, I can not see any mutual benefit fro which to fight along with people who contemplate the possibiloity that such idea must be banned or forbidden, and, of course, will never act collectivelly with them in whatever action.
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 16:48 utc | 7
Huh?!?
Nothing happenes randomly. Why is B posting this comment as an article right now?
Is there information he is aware of that goes against his own "narrative"?
Interesting times....
Posted by: Skeletor | Jun 1 2020 16:50 utc | 8
The big FU is the US stock market's relentless climb no matter the news. The richest and most powerful have been bailed out, they will continue to be bailed out and they will be well protected.
The disconnect is wider than ever.
Posted by: snow_watcher | Jun 1 2020 16:52 utc | 9
no, it's NOT true that "Antife" exists in the shape and form it is being presented in the news. "Antifa" only shows up and exists when it is needed, then magically disappears; same as Ali Queada and ISIS that turned out to be groups renamed, financed, armed and directed directly by israel, USA/NATO/the West.
Capitalims isn't in structural crisis; Capitalism has always been a fake system that lives on exploiting somebody and/or something. Now that Capitalism has nobody left to exploit, it has began to exploit its one people.
Posted by: Hoyeru | Jun 1 2020 17:01 utc | 11
It's true that the West moves the goalposts when the reality on the field doesn't fit their propaganda:
‘More details needed’ on Wuhan’s mass coronavirus tests
Professor Jin Dong-yan, a molecular virologist at the Li Ka Shing Faculty of Medicine at the University of Hong Kong, agreed that scientifically it was not necessary to test all residents.Jin said mass testing, which was expensive, was carried out “out of sociological, or psychological concerns, instead of scientific purposes”.
there is too much chaos to know what is really going on, and as long as there are enough people who want to sow chaos, then chaos and disinformation will rule
Posted by: ralpieboy | Jun 1 2020 17:09 utc | 13
It´s true that if he talks like a fascist, walks like a fascist and acts like a fascist, this is as fascist and will end behaving like that.
In the eventuality of joining any white supremacist militas ( whatever disguise they currently want to wear, hawaian shirts + hawaian skirts + clown nose, or antifa attire, or even bolshevik attire ) in overthrowing any government, once the government overthrown, they, who are always quite better equipped in weaponry than the average real worker, will start shooting at the communists, socialists, progresists at shot range, as has historically happened in every country where they have been rised to power, with or without the unconscious help of the workers unions, deluded by their "socialist" disguise, concretely in Germany in the 30s.
Beware that here it comes again the discourse of the "alt-right" of the ole 2016...Prepare for more from now to the end of the year....
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 17:11 utc | 14
It's True how this analysis sees and describes what's occurring within the Outlaw US Empire, more than validating Cornel West's assessment, except it misses the major component--Class--while seeing lizard's list:
"As the world watches the US being confronted with massive riots, looting, chaos and heightened violence, US officials, instead of reflecting on the systematic problems in their society that led to such a crisis, have returned to their old 'blame game' against left-wingers, 'fake news' media and 'external forces....'
"[O]bservers see a weak, irresponsible and incompetent leadership navigating the country into a completely opposite direction, with all-out efforts to deflect public attention from its own failure.
"Mass protests erupted in a growing numbers of cities in the US over the weekend, and at least 40 cities have imposed curfews, while the National Guard has been activated in 14 states and Washington DC, according to US media reports ... [P]rotests across the country continued into a sixth straight night.
"More Americans have slammed the US president for inciting hatred and racism, and US officials, who turn a blind eye to the deep-seated issues in American society, including racial injustice, economic woes and the coronavirus pandemic, began shifting the blame to the former US president, extremists, and China for inflaming the social unrests."
Blaming Chinese, Russians and/or Martians isn't going to help Trump. Without doing a thing, Biden has risen to a lead of 8-10% in the most recent polling. Trumps many mistakes have dug him a hole that now seems to be collapsing in upon him. He's cursed worse than Midas as everything he attempts turns out a big negative and only worsens the situation.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 1 2020 17:14 utc | 15
He's cursed worse than Midas as everything he attempts turns out a big negative and only worsens the situation.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 1 2020 17:14 utc | 15
That "big negative" reminded me of anything...if it were not so tragic for so many people in the world, it would be like ti die of laugh...
https://twitter.com/sarahcpr/status/1263602255476985862
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 17:20 utc | 16
I would say change the "litter watering hole" typo, but really it's probably more appropriate.
can't respond much to comments now, but if you visit my litter box you will see a real life look at a real Karen who doesn't need the manager because she's already on the payroll-- former sustainability officer for Raytheon who splits time between DC and Montana.
thank you, b, for putting me higher on the radar ;). stay sane and safe as possible out there, moonbats!
It's also true that the oligarchy will continue to preserve the system it's created in the U.S. through all available means, using its militarized police forces as its loyal street level enforcers. Change would happen very quickly if enough police turned and join with the "mobs". Otherwise any positive change in the prevailing structure will be extremely incremental if at all, and will be resisted at every level until it collapses because there is nothing left worth to exploit.
Posted by: krypton | Jun 1 2020 17:24 utc | 18
No Int’l comparisons ? ..?
Gilet Jaunes. Cop violence against the GJ wasn’t direct kill in the USA-cop style, but still very violent, horrific. There are lists of the injured, handicapped, etc.
Video, one demo (subtitles in F) 8 mins, showing how the demo is kettled, manipulated, by the police, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbpFvUE-8dw
-- a compendium of police violence - *adults only* on my screen, 10 mins
Anyway, police tactics are pretty similar all over.
One difference is in the spark, in F a ++ in diesel prices (which is linked to many other points, not just ‘paying more’), in the US, the traditional ‘racist’ filmed murder. Arab Spring, was a street vendor setting himself alight.
In F, the police kettle, arrest, fine, imprison (the state, leaving that out), beat up, maim, but avoid street kills. Shooting terrorists point-blank is by now accepted / even cheered, but GJ demonstrators don’t fit that profile.
Another diff. is that in France the GJ are somewhat organised, and have been demonstrating and agitating for more than a year now, in a controlled fashion; they have also demanded political changes. Very French, in short. They have reps. who appear on (non MSM) TV shows. Ppl of ‘color’ in France, Arabs, are not seen much on the street or joining the movement, as all know that the ‘dark skinned’, Arabs would be the prime victims of pol. violence, they are told to keep away, and do so. The ‘whites’ protect the ‘minorities.’
So, the F MSM/Gvmt. castigates the GJ for being ‘white nationalist’ (aka racist and deplorable, and Le Pen voters - many of them are Le Pen voters but that is another story) to denigrate them.
Imho the present protests, social ‘unrest,’ in the USA will just die out as usual, nothing will be accomplished - what are the politcal demands? zero.. - on to the next chapter of misery and oppression.
Posted by: Noirette | Jun 1 2020 17:26 utc | 19
Imho the present protests, social ‘unrest,’ in the USA will just die out as usual, nothing will be accomplished - what are the politcal demands? zero.. - on to the next chapter of misery and oppression.
Posted by: Noirette | Jun 1 2020 17:26 utc | 19
Indeed, and there was no other goal by stirring up these protest to the public murder of Floyd in plain daylight, after decades of deideologization of the US masses by brainwashing through US education system, TV, Hollywood, and so on.
Provocate the poor masses to find no way than to emotionally revolt through a brute action broadcasted to the four corners of the US through the media, to then show the rightful protesters as disorganized anarchist riotters without any vison or idea ( with unestimable help by white supremacists and cops infiltrated, and even by rich blonde boys stealing surf boards as if there was no tomorrow...)so as to show the middle and upper classes that this will be the aspect of the country in case socialist policies would be put in practice. This is to appeal once again, and possibly the last one, to the greedy individualist allegevd "winner" to once more vote against its own interest, as after the elections all what would not be looted by the poor would be looted by the state. Then it will come the gnashing of teeth and regrets on not having suppoorted those poor people when they were being murdered in the streets.
But, may be, some would even be grateful of being quirurgically robed by the state ( thorugh their bank accounts and propieties value going down the hole...) instead of by these obviously majority of needed people....needed at least of respect....
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 17:42 utc | 20
Hoyeru | Jun1 17:01 @ 11
"Antifa" only shows up and exists when it is needed, then magically disappears; same as Ali Queada and ISIS ...
This!
<> <> <> <> <>
Reposting my earlier comment on the Open Thread:
ZH reports that 6 people have died in the protests. Dozens of protesters and police have been injured. Tens of millions of dollars in property damage, police overtime, and cost of the likely spread of coronavirus ('second wave' now being blamed on the protesters).
All because the authorities will not appropriately charge the killers of George Floyd.
Instead, Trump and MSM turn the focus to "antifa". How convenient. MSM says nothing of the killing of 26-year old Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia weeks before and the attempted cover-up of his killing.
How many more have to die before the authorities act appropriately? How much more destruction and silent spread of coronavirus?
<> <> <> <> <>
The protesters say that a manslaughter charge against Chauvin is an injustice. Chauvin was a veteran officer who KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING when he remained on Floyd for more than 3 minutes after he had become non-responsive.
The protesters say that the other officers are accessories to murder because they did nothing to stop it.
Every reasonable person understands that the protesters have valid points. I would say that there's a consensus that Chauvin should be charged with Second-degree murder and the other officers charged as accessories. But the authorities drag their feet - while America burns.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 1 2020 17:44 utc | 21
Lots of reports about bricks being left or found near protest areas. Smells like a setup to inflame and delegitimize the protest movement...
Posted by: Lozion | Jun 1 2020 17:49 utc | 22
Posted by: Noirette | Jun 1 2020 17:26 utc | 19
"what are the politcal demands? zero.."
What political demand could one possibly make by now, and of whom would you make it? Reform is impossible, and there's no legitimate authority left (if there ever was in the first place).
I'm cautiously optimistic that maybe this time around enough active elements of the people finally understand they have no future with this system and that it's life or death.
@Posted by: H.Schmatz | June 01, 2020 at 17:42
I, for one, found quite illustrating all the goals implied in this operation were delineated at Pat Lang´s blog by his classist commentariat.
Demands on the qulaification of Antifa as terrorist group were made in that blog just 24h before Trump stated he will do that.
Rocambolesque familiar stories of forecastings made by grannies of rimbombant names from the "Good Old Families" of Virginia, or wherever in the classy South..., on the evils to come in case certain people arrives in government...as if we would not had witnessed evil enough so far...since the fall of the USSR...
Well, is all so coincidental with the current dirty fight is being started here by the Franco´s heirs, financied by the same US people, that smells of rat all the way from here to Alexandría....
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 17:52 utc | 24
One can recognize two types of causation: 1. "But for" causation. If X had not happened, then Y would not have happened. But for my pulling the pin on the hand grenade it would not have gone off; and, 2. "significant factor". Doing A was a significant factor in B happening. Putting my knee on that personʻs neck for 8 minutes and causing them him to die was a significant factor in causing people to leave their homes to protest what I did.
Under either type, bad police who commit crimes against citizens [usually of color] are the cause of the disturbances. No police criminality, nothing to protest.
Posted by: stevelaudig | Jun 1 2020 17:57 utc | 25
This one better pierces the veil:
"Partisan politics has created severe divisions in society. Such divisions restrict and disturb people's thinking. People's support for a particular party is only a matter of stance, which provides a shelter to politicians who violate people's interests.
"As elections come and go, it is simply about one group of elites replacing the other. The intertwined interests between the two groups are much greater than those between the victorious one and the electorate who vote for them.
"To cover such deception, the key agenda in the US is either a partisan fight or a conflict with foreign countries. The severe racial discrimination and wealth disparities are marginalized topics."
I wonder if the writer would like to see his conclusion proven wrong:
"Judging from the superficial comments and statements from US politicians on the protests, the outsiders can easily draw the conclusion that solving problems is not on the minds of the country, and elites are just fearlessly waiting for this wave of demonstrations to die out."
In order to solve problems, one must know their components and roots, and that demands honesty in making the assessment. Looking back at the assessments of Cornel West and the producers of the Four Horsemen documentary, the main culprit is the broken political system/failed social experiment, which are essentially one in the same as the flawed system produced the failure. Most of us have determined that changing the system via the system will never work because the system has empowered a Class that has no intentions on allowing its power to be diminished, and that Class is currently using the system to further impoverish and enslave the citizenry into Debt Peonage while increasing its own power. The #1 problem is removing the Financial Parasite Class from power. Yes, at the moment that seems as difficult as destroying the Death Star's reactor before it blows up Yavin 4, but the stakes involved are every bit as high as those portrayed in Lucas's Star Wars, as the Evil of the Empire and that of the Parasite Class are the same Evil.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 1 2020 17:58 utc | 26
What political demand could one possibly make by now, and of whom would you make it? Reform is impossible, and there's no legitimate authority left (if there ever was in the first place).
Posted by: Russ | Jun 1 2020 17:49 utc | 23
Indeed, apart from the shock of witnessing one of them murderd in plain daylight as if he were a vermin, I think that the people, especially young, reacted that anarchic way because they really see no future. They see how their country functions at steering wheel blows especially through the pandemic, preview they will e in the need soon, even that they will be murdered without contemeplation,and go out there to grab whatever they could...
We forget that they are under Trump regime and Trump has supported always their foes, witnessing such assassination in plain daylight, without any officila doing nothing, not even charging the obvious culprits was felt by tese people as if the hunting season on nigers and lefties" had been declared. No other way yo ucan explain the sudden union of such ammount of black and white young people. Thye felt all targets of the ops or of Trump´s white supreamcist militias after four years of being dgreaded as subhumans. In fact, were not for the riots to turn so violent, I fear carnages of all these peoples would have started.
The people, brainwashed or not, at least when they are young, still conserve some survival instincts and some common sense too.
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 18:09 utc | 27
Thank you, Lizard, and thx to b for promoting this to a Post.
Posted by: elkern | Jun 1 2020 18:12 utc | 28
My African American friend’s words now seem so prophetic:
The poh-leeece. Them are the PAY GANG. Nuff said.
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jun 1 2020 18:20 utc | 29
As with the virus, those with the means are able to influence us into hating our neighbors and acting against our own interest.
I suspect that it is also true that some people who have participated in protests will come to realize that they have hurt primarily themselves but their work will benefit others.
The issue is police brutality it steps from government policy.
Posted by: jared | Jun 1 2020 18:21 utc | 30
@ Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 1 2020 17:58 utc | 26
Yes, the republican model of organization is naturally unstable and doomed to collapse. Everybody knows what happened to the Roman Republic: tendency to polarization, civil war and collapse.
However, the reverse is also true: when the economy is flying high, every political system works. Everybody is happy when there's wealth for everybody.
The present problem, therefore, is inherent to the capitalist system, not with the republican system per se.
The violence being inflicted upon the oppressed and disenfranchised public in the US, on a lesser level parallels the crimes systematically committed by the Empire in significant parts of the world, in order to maintain a hegemonic structure of domination and exploitation. It perpetrates extreme economic and social injustice while extolling putative virtues of human rights, freedom and democracy. Such a monstrous evil must somehow be defeated, but when protests are perverted by intentional disruption such as looting and wanton destruction, the message becomes tainted and turns many law-abiding citizens against the cause or makes them unwilling to participate. If there is to be an organized movement, there must also be a method of extracting those selfish, cynical saboteurs. Beyond that, the general public in the US and other developed countries must begin to realize how our entire way of life is incompatible with peace and sustainable habitat on this planet, which seems an insurmountable leap of consciousness evolution. The term "comfortably numb" comes to mind.
Posted by: norecovery | Jun 1 2020 18:32 utc | 32
On June 15, 2016, Hillary Clinton had a 12-point lead over Trump in a Bloomberg poll.
Posted by: lysias | Jun 1 2020 18:33 utc | 33
I can't help but believe the 4 cops involved in this crime,had reasons to take the man out for whatever reasons. It was too methodical in nature, one guy standing watch while three do the deed. Poor old George may have had the goods on a band of dirty cops, or something of that nature.
Posted by: Chuck Rogers | Jun 1 2020 18:52 utc | 34
A Story: How The Chickens Came Home To Roost
The media and politicians have repeated a mantra for years n order to gain power by exploiting social and racial faultlines. They didn't want to deal with the actual cause of societal discontent which is their own support of an exploitative economic system which disempowers and pushed down everyone but the 1%. So they invented a false cause of discontent in order to appear as saviors who are bringing a message of Hope and Change
White people are racist. White people are inherently evil and greedy. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Black and Brown people are good, Black and Brown people are victims of the racist greedy evil white people.White people are racist. White people are inherently evil and greedy. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Black and Brown people are good, Black and Brown people are victims of the racist greedy evil white people.
After enough time has gone by, we have a generation of young people of all colors who believe the above mantra with all their heart because of hearing that mantra every day in the media, in schools, in movies, from leaders. The media knowing that, would then look for ways to exploit their hatred of "white racism against black and brown people."
The media would sensationalize any act of violence involving white on black and brown. They ignored all the violence of black and brown on white. This uneven media reporting was based on their desire to reinforce the mantra of "white people are evil racists, black and brown people are victims and good."
Because it would paint themselves as supporters of "social justice" they created a false version of reality where everything bad in society was because of white people being racist. Never mind the actual causes of societal discontent being the exploitation by the elite. Because the media is the elite they don't want you to hate them. So they created a false victimizer they could blame for all the problems of society.
Because violence from black and brown on white was never reported by the media except in local news, people only heard from the national narrative of white violence of black and brown because people don't pay attention to local news. They grew up believing the police only abused black and brown people, they grew up believing that random street violence was only from white people against black and brown. None of which is true.
This was bound to end up with a generation of people who believed the false narrative where America is a nation where black and brown people are always the victims, and white people are always the victimizers. And as you can see in the riots, the rioters are almost all under 30. A generation has grown up being brainwashed by the mantra:
White people are racist. White people are inherently evil and greedy. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Black and Brown people are good, Black and Brown people are victims of the racist greedy evil white people.
That is why so many people are perfectly fine with the violence and looting based on a few recent incidents of white on black violence. During the same time period there was plenty of black on black violence, plenty of brown on brown violence, and plenty of black and brown on white violence. But the national media never highlights any violence but white on black and brown. That is what has led to the new normal where any violence involving white on black or brown will be blown up WAY out of proportion to the reality of violence in America. Which is an equal opportunity game. A generation of people has grown up to believe that white racism is the cause of all the problems.
Meanwhile the elites sit in their yachts and laugh. The rabble are busy fighting over race when the real issue is ignored. The media has done their job admirably. Their job is to deflect rage from the elite to racism. From wealthy exploitation of the commons, to racism. As long as the underclasses are busy blaming racism then the politicians, business leaders, and media are satisfied because they are the actual ones to blame. They are the enemy. They blame racism for all the problems as a way to hide that truth of their own culpability for the problems in society. THEIR OWN GREED AND CONTEMPT FOR THE UNDERCLASS.
No, the Roman Republic was controlled by the Creditor Class via the Senate. It was the Kings who preceded the Republic that were Commoners Champions as they tried to keep economic disparity in check via debt forgiveness. In its essence, the Roman Republic was an Oligarchy, not a Republic at all, and it finally dropped all pretenses when Julius Caesar was murdered for entertaining ideas of economic reform and the Empire dawned.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 1 2020 19:09 utc | 36
It is my informal observation that riots tend to collapse from exhaustion after about three days. That's not happening this time, as every new day sees more and more house arrest orders (called "curfew", a nice antiseptic term) across the country.
Current events bring to mind the 1933 failed fascist coup d'etat exposed by General Smedley "War is a Racket" Butler. Instead of organizing half a million war veterans by the VFW, today's "Business Plot" organizers would have at their disposal one million already trained and equipped paramilitary police forces.
In such a scenario there is no reason for local cops to know who is pulling strings; all they have to do is follow orders, which they are more than willing to do, especially with commanders giving them football-style pep talks before going out to break heads.
It's well-documented that the spooks have been trying to get rid of Trump since the election, first with "Russia-gate", then arresting and/or driving out all his trusted staff, then the impeachment. Why should anyone think the spooks have given up? How many times did they try to kill Castro?
If the idea that a spook-led coup d'etat is in progress really has merit (I have "medium confidence"), it will be enforced by the police, not the Army or even National Guard units. So far, Guard units have not fired on protesters and many are not armed. I strongly suspect the army is not reliable, and commanders know it:
In Denver, Guard troops are carrying nonlethal weapons, including batons, tasers, and pepper spray. “They were fully embedded with Denver PD,” said Air Force Maj. Gen. Michael Loh, Colorado’s adjutant general. “The Denver police chief Paul Pazen said if we have to use deadly force and I want my police officers to do it, and I want you to be in support.”
National Guard are recruited with boatloads of TV ads all promoting how Guardsmen are used to help their neighbors during natural disasters. Those ads never feature Guardsmen facing down or shooting angry protesters, and Guardsmen want to believe they are there "to help". The police, however, are under no such illusions and affirm their willingness to kill civilians every time they strap on their side-arm.
If Guardsmen get itchy trigger fingers and shoot civilians without orders, well that just happens sometimes, not a big deal. But if commanders give the order to shoot and they don't, that is a huge crisis which I assume commanders would want to avoid.
--------
From the BBC timeline:
During this attempt [to put Floyd in the patrolcar], at 20:19, Mr Chauvin pulled Mr Floyd out of the passenger side, causing him to fall to the ground, the report said.He lay there, face down, still in handcuffs.
This suggests he was pulled out of the car by Chauvin for the express purpose of killing him. His cool demeanor is striking. He knows he is openly killing Floyd while being filmed but remains confident he is protected.
Two goons who work at a fancy nightclub (aka Mob Headquarters) and one ends up dead. Smells like a mob hit; ordered and paid for by who is the right question.
Posted by: Trailer Trash | Jun 1 2020 19:10 utc | 37
Watching Chauvin murder Floyd in broad daylight, reminds me of Trump's claim that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, also in broad daylight, and his supporters wouldn't flinch. I think he's right, and that 'element' in America will not change - a steady 40% in most polling. Something to keep in mind when one considers any possibility of 'mutual or collective' anything. I put my hope in secession.
Posted by: Nancy | Jun 1 2020 19:16 utc | 38
Posted by: norecovery | Jun 1 2020 18:32 utc | 32
Have you ever considered the option to vote by your feet, meaning to leave?
As a person who left my own homeland when I realized how much I disliked it, I will never understand anyone who hates his place but still hangs there. Get out of that shit-hole, go to better place.
Posted by: hopehely | Jun 1 2020 19:20 utc | 39
‘Extremely fast stupidity is not AI’ - vk
My next tshirt!
Posted by: Rae | Jun 1 2020 19:20 utc | 40
Its true that we are in the midst of a class war and that Lizard's list is a compilation of distractions and diversions preventing people from understanding this, let alone acting upon it.
Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 1 2020 19:21 utc | 41
It's true that it is impossible to fix the massive problems we face by working within the existing political system.
It's true that the only route to saving the planet and restoring democracy, is to burn the system down, then rebuild it from the grass roots.
Posted by: Trisha | Jun 1 2020 19:21 utc | 42
I m laughing tons of belly aching laughs.
In the Waco bestial murdering, there was no internet, no Cell photos, no instant communication.
The same on the Vietnam thing, on the Mi Lays. Same at the saigon flee-for-your-life scenes... THE 1968 revolt repressions.
Same on the Iraq Basra city brutal machine gunning BY Gi s of
the terrified civilians that crowded the Basra road, the Lybia
massacres, the syria 's US funded criminals... let s stop it here.
Enough for most criminal state in History.
Now there is the WEB, the mobile's cameras and a lot else to document and record what the real United states is.
WThe deliberate murder of Floyd and the
@Lizard:
It's true that cops in the United States are given a license to kill. They can stop you anywhere and make arrest on any cooked-up charges. Having done so they can humiliate you 'til you resist (or just voice protest which they can claim to be offensive resistance). Then they can cause harm to you because they need to 'protect' themselves in line of duties. This sequence of event usually involve two or four of 'them' versus one of you. Then they pin you down on the ground and knell on your neck. Note that anyone of them weighs 300+ pounds because of their extravagant meals after meals. If the one doing the knelling happens to enjoy what he/she is doing at the moment, you end up knocking on heaven's door. But you knock because of a heart attack, or because they say you have illicit drugs in your body. What they say goes because they have your dead body and they have the labs to temper your dead body chemistry. Whatever questions a skeptic raises is easily defrayed by saying they will investigate. Three days (or sometimes over 6 months) later they say their investigation confirm their narratives. The court will always rule in their favor because the court either fear their reprisals or are in their pocket to start with. So, your unfortunate incidence results in the cops having done one heck of a job for the society.
You are dead, as it usually happens that way. You are at higher risks for such incidences if you are black, brown, or worse still--slanting eyes. America is always great. America is patient enough to spend months on end to 'investigate' and cook up narratives to forever making America great!!!
Posted by: annon | Jun 1 2020 19:46 utc | 45
also true that ... FOX war correspondent Leland Vittert
was chased by an angry mob who smashed his camera, 'I can't believe I'm in America', he said. If this scared a seasoned war correspondent like him then know it's bad.
I didn't know this until now but he was in Israel when the Israel one of the times when they bombed Gaza. I can definitely see him wearing the standard issue helmet and vest as jets hit their targets. I sure hope they also gave him ear plugs. Not surprised, I've seen him bravely interrupt Tulsi Gabbard and people like her many times during his interviews.
Vittert was not hospitalized and there was no reference to being treated for injuries but he sure sounded traumatized. Brit Hume and FOX tweeted their support. Why don't Vittert and FOX give a rats ass about Assange rotting in jail or even when Blumenthal was arrested and kept in jail for over a week on a fictitious assault charge that the feds later dropped? Perplexing, almost narcissistic.
Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Jun 1 2020 19:48 utc | 46
the wilful deliberate murder of Floyd deserves a trial ending in 40 years solitary for the white bastard, with half of it in jail for each the fellow cops.
The rest is LOL: the furious backlash of oppresse people on the streets, the undesirable and illegal but not entirely undeserved looting, the buildings afire.
So shining not on the hill but on the blaze, the worldwide shown new image of former uncle Scmuel's exceptionalistan.
But of course China is to blame.
OK, try this angle on the problem.
American blacks are doing poorly because their jobs have been outsourced to communist China, the remaining jobs are increasingly going to foreign nationals imported as a source of indentured cheap labor, rents are unaffordable, medical care is unaffordable, education is unaffordable, people are drowning in debt and thanks to utter scumbags like Joe Biden they can no longer get out from under by declaring bankruptcy (as the 'socialist' founding fathers of this nation intended!), the government spends trillions on pointless foreign wars that serve only to enrich a few politically connected defense contractors, and over all, the government is giving literally tens of trillions of dollars in bailouts and subsidies to Wall Street and the super rich.
Thing is, this has nothing to do with 'racism.' It's class war, and my class is losing. But the rich don't like that narrative, so they stir up the proles and have them fight each other.
If blacks are doing badly only because they are stupid and dysfunctional, then why are working class whites starting to lose ground as well? Oh they aren't rioting much, they're just killing themselves with opiates and alcohol. Still, they are being ground down all the same. When the working class of all colors is losing ground, that is inconsistent with either 'racism' or blacks being inherently dysfunctional. It is consistent with the working class in general being stepped on, yes?
In a country of 340 million plus, there will always be the occasional bad thing happening. If indeed one white cop shot one black man without justification that's a bad thing - but it's just one incident, it has nothing to do with what's really keeping American blacks down - which is exactly the same as what's keeping American whites down! By taking one incident, and publicizing the hell out of it and screaming that it's all about 'racism,' the rich have deliberately created this situation.
Of course the media ignore all those incidents of blacks shooting whites. It's not part of the narrative.
Now with the coronavirus having gutted the economy, we have like 30+ million more people out of work than just recently, and most of the rest are going to be taking pay cuts, and after the stimulus crumbs run out, it's going to be very painful. The response of the elites, added onto the 'stimulus' bill, was to engage in an orgy of looting and profiteering not seen since Russia under Yeltsin. People are going to be evicted, lose their cars etc., and there is no safety net... This isn't going to be pretty. As a cynical person, I think the elites see this coming, and the intensity of the current manufactured conflagration is being put in place to focus the anger of the masses away from the elites, because they can feel what's headed our way.
I am not some stupid guilty liberal social justice warrior. As a skinny white guy, if I see that I am the only white face on the street I will be somewhere else real fast. If blacks are looting and pillaging, I want the police to stomp on that and maintain order and I won't take any excuses. But we shouldn't lose track of the big picture. It's the monolithic corporate media enterprises that have stoked this chaos, and it's for a reason.
Posted by: TG | Jun 1 2020 19:53 utc | 49
"It’s true that some very messed up militia minded people call themselves Boogaloo Bois, wear Hawaiian shirts, and are showing up to add their brand of crazy to the mix."
Actually, that's not true - the quote in the "angry young white dudes" piece clearly referred to them as the "Big Igloo Bois", though the source of said quote, none other than NATO/neocon prop shop Bellingcat, also fubared their own article title with "Boogaloo", again confirming what sloppy propagandists they have working there.
So here we have MofA quoting none other than frickin' Bellingcat, my what strange times we live in.
Anyhow, it's called "reading comprehension". It’s hard work, I know. But I have faith in you.
Posted by: e | Jun 1 2020 19:53 utc | 50
Allow me to follow up on my last posting.
It is true the incidence I cited can happen in any country. It is also true that occurrences of such incidences are minimized in countries with the minimal presence of moral norm. But moral norm has dissipated in America that has been made great again. We now have MAGA doer who can lie, err, or even kill with no abandon on his moments of pleasure. He is surrounded by lackeys and brainless hacks (brainless in his own exact image) who would mop up any unpleasant blowbacks through controlled propaganda machineries.
Brace yourselves, the end game is coming! It is true.
Posted by: annon | Jun 1 2020 19:59 utc | 51
strength in numbers?
Few
Alone tired halfdrunk hopeful
I staggered into the bogs
at Green Park station
and found 30 written on the wall
Appalled I lurched out
into the windy blaring neon Piccadilly night
thinking surely,
Surely there must be more of us than that...
(Pete Brown)
Posted by: john | Jun 1 2020 20:07 utc | 52
"- what are the politcal demands? zero.. - on to the next chapter of misery and oppression."
Posted by: Noirette | Jun 1 2020 17:26 utc | 19
So tell me Noirette- what exactly would "political demands" accomplish in the U.S. political system and climate? You are spewing b.s.-
ANYONE who lives in the US knows for an absolute fact that the Govt (current and past) does NOT listen to, or give a flying fuck about "mainstreet" and what Americans want for a better society.
You act as if political demands would be kindly listened to and acted upon by both parties-
I would call you delusional and completely out of touch with reality. Enjoy your misery and oppression- at least some people have the balls to be on the streets fighting oppression.
Got anymore APATHY to share?
Posted by: CitizenX | Jun 1 2020 20:07 utc | 53
Pictures as words! Do please click the link and scroll down a bit to get to the side-by-side images that provide the words I won't try to put in your mouths as each will have their own interpretation. But please do take the few seconds it takes to look!!
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 1 2020 20:23 utc | 54
The death of George Floyd was ruled a HOMICIDE by independent autopsy.
https://www.rt.com/usa/490441-george-floyd-died-asphyxia-neck/
This report, combined with the fact that Derek Chauvin knew and worked with the victim, makes this homicide premeditated or at the very least a 2nd degree murder.
The fact that the other officers did not intervene makes them complicit in the act and should be brought up on manslaughter charges and accessory to commit murder.
Charging the other officers will help slightly in tamping down the riots, although it may be too late. The wheels have been placed in motion and this is morphing into something bigger than George Floyd.
Posted by: Alpi | Jun 1 2020 20:28 utc | 55
@CitizenX #53 re: demands
Political demands bring coherence to a movement. If the establishment ignores those demands, they do so at their own peril. If you have no demands, how do you convince others you are not just another fascist clawing your way upward?
Posted by: Dr Wellington Yueh | Jun 1 2020 20:29 utc | 56
Look closely at the film of the end of the murder when the ambulance came for the victim:
https://twitter.com/littllemel/status/1266393141906726912
First responders immediately examine the victim for any signs of life, and they come prepared with equipment to resuscitate the victim if possible. Not these men.
They got out of the ambulance and moved in fast, picked up his body like it was a huge sack of potatoes, and THREW him on to the gurney. Obviously, they knew that he was dead, knew that he was supposed to be dead.
They were NOT first responders in any sense, but openly armed and uniformed policemen.
Consider...
Posted by: RJPJR | Jun 1 2020 20:33 utc | 57
It's true that the charge should have been homicide in first degree, but all those self victimiced white people who stir up so much their garments because of the "looting", thought it was enough, in case the thug even gets to fulfill the condemn.
https://www.rt.com/usa/490441-george-floyd-died-asphyxia-neck/
Posted by: H. Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 20:34 utc | 58
If the establishment ignores those demands, they do so at their own peril. If you have no demands, how do you convince others you are not just another fascist clawing your way upward?
Posted by: Dr Wellington Yueh | Jun 1 2020 20:29 utc | 56
....
"The Largest Protest Ever Was 15 Years Ago. The Iraq War Isn’t Over. What Happened?"
Lots of brainwashed indoctrinated Amurikans round here who are incapable of realizing the US Regime Political system is broken well beyond repair. Again I will repeat- and please show me otherwise if you can- The US Regime does NOT listen to or give a flying fuck about what its citizens want- period.
Health Care?
Lobby reform?
Economic reform?
End wars of aggression?
Electoral college?
Federal Reserve?
the list goes on...and nothing!
Largest protest EVER in the history of the US NOT to invade Iraq- and the US is still there- how many died as a result? Millions? Let me guess- you still believe Amurika is a functioning Democracy?
This is a National/Global Uprising- NOT an organized protest. How many days has it been? 1 week- and you act as if it should be clean whitey tidy nice nice structurally dialed.
Just because you're a DR. doesn't mean you have the slightest bit of common sense other than being indoctrinated into an Education system that prevents critical thinking.
Remind me- what is the definition of insanity?
Posted by: CitizenX | Jun 1 2020 20:48 utc | 59
Just remembering everybody: if we're talking about a revolutionary situation in the USA, then it's not looting. Instead, it is foraging and corrupting the enemy's lines of supply (logistics).
Looting is the mere criminal act of a random individual or group of individuals.
Revolution is war, and thus the principles and terms of military art should be applied.
@59: OK, I'm NOT a doctor.
My point is, if the establishment doesn't care, that's too fucking bad for them. You're not asking for a chocolate ice cream cone, you're demanding that they get the fuck out of the way so humanity can make progress.
Posted by: Dr Wellington Yueh | Jun 1 2020 20:52 utc | 61
Oh look, far left commies making excuses and trying to shift the blame now that all those pictures and videos are showing up of your well planned and funded riots. We see how you place bricks, flammable materials and weapons for rioters to find and use. We see how you assault and murder old people by beating them into the ground and stomping on their heads when they are out cold before stealing their money. We see how you rush in to burn down historical monuments and tearing down statues. We see how you laugh and crackle in joy when blacks assault women and men for being white.
We see you, we have guns and we will use them.
There will be no forgiveness this time, only body bags for you.
You wanted a revolution and a civil war, don't fucking expect any mercy.
Posted by: Mighty Whitey | Jun 1 2020 20:54 utc | 62
It would hardly surprise me if the regime change obsession has come home and now the US is "enjoying" all of the democracy building colour revolutions they love so much. No matter how this end it will not end well for 99% of Americans
Posted by: Kadath | Jun 1 2020 20:58 utc | 63
My point is, if the establishment doesn't care, that's too fucking bad for them. You're not asking for a chocolate ice cream cone, you're demanding that they get the fuck out of the way so humanity can make progress.
Posted by: Dr Wellington Yueh | Jun 1 2020 20:52 utc | 61
...
Exactly- my temper is up big time. Not trying to be hostile but I am thoroughly disgusted with the Regimes continuous global murder escapades combined with selfish arrogant ignorant people who try to excuse and brush off the horrible reality of what it is.
It is not surprising with Americans love of violence and fantasy. Sick Nation-
Posted by: CitizenX | Jun 1 2020 21:00 utc | 64
With respect the very particular reading some here make of Roman Empire history, I wonder, who were the Good Kings who use to pardon the debts of the subdits to avoid conflict so that everybody was living in the harmony of the "commons", but as always happens, some more "commons" than others.
The only debt any king through history of planet Earth has pardoned has Bern the slightest crumb enough to save his neck when things started to go badly.
I, along with peers of the traditional left of always, any time we hear the word "commons", we put our hand in the wallet.
As I understand, the "commons" thing consist in te return to medieval times, with an alleged "Good King" in charge, who will have his court of illuminated experts, while the rest of us will be equalized in income but at the lowest strata, and all this in the name of the alleged sustainability of the planet and the economic system.
Simply, there is no "good king", as they always live on the backs of their subdits, who, were not the king there in the first place, would not own him/her any debt to be pardoned. Kings have always been part of the exploitative extractive system from the masses, as the current system where several kings remain in power, mainly at several tax havens, clearly illustrates.
And, for the record, Caesar was a brute force dictator who tried to preserve an irremediably decaying Empire by abolishing Roman Senate and what few remained of democracy and freedoms in the Roman Republic. He arrived in power by jumping over the laws, crossing the Rubicon and giving a military coup d'etat.
Had been Cicero ready to take the opportunity to grab power in the power vacuum immediate to his assassination, while both his assassins and his followers were making deals and killing each other, the history of the world may have been other.
What are you doing, taking advantage of this strange thread to whitewash here military juntas? With what purpose, preparing the path for the one coming after the "riots"?
I was seeing during the past weeks that some who in the past more or less subtly supported Trump and who even were lately seemingly approaching "socialist" views, come now to advance another very different agenda.
In the end, they are military people,well....
Posted by: H. Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 21:02 utc | 65
H Schmatz #7
Its true Pat Lang is a turd in search of admiring rsoles
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 1 2020 21:03 utc | 66
SEX IS ILLEGAL in the UK between people not living together in the UK. Wouldn’t be surprised if this will be the next step in the US Covid-19 scam in the US. And all the time you are moaning about the broken system, the crap politics and the George Soros funded Antifa riots.
You are kidding me, right?
Covid-19 is about imposing a fascist state across the ‘free world’ and all you can talk is about violence, Capitalist exploitation of the weak and some bloke with red hair whose family make Micky and Minnie Mouse look like a normal family.
You are all dysfunctional you commentators. You can’t see the wood for the trees. You will never know the freedoms you were familiar with just as we illegally imprisoned British will always live under house arrest by order of our government of occupation.
Do hope you all wake up soon.
Posted by: Hudd | Jun 1 2020 21:08 utc | 67
All that anger and disconnect from both parties.
What is going to happen when Americans realise they can vote?
Posted by: Michael Droy | Jun 1 2020 21:09 utc | 68
@62 Mighty Mouse
Oh boy, the Pat Lang Moron Brigade has entered the chat.
Enjoy your comment as long as it lasts...
Posted by: vato | Jun 1 2020 21:09 utc | 69
I got laid off 3 weeks ago, and now my moms job downtown told her no work until futher notice becuse of "looters" they didnt say how or if they are going to pay her for the lost time. This is such a goofy stunt by the PTB, i live in the chicqgo suburbs and got 3 messages that 9 oclock curfew in effect because "looters" where coming and all the stores shut but I DIDNT SEE ANYONE PROTESTING around here
Posted by: Burger | Jun 1 2020 21:11 utc | 70
Had been Cicero ready to take the opportunity to grab power in the power vacuum immediate to his assassination, while both his assassins and his followers were making deals and killing each other, the history of the world may have been other.
I'm reading SPQR, and don't think so.
Minor bump in over 1000 years of history.
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Jun 1 2020 21:13 utc | 71
stevelaudig @25: "...bad police who commit crimes against citizens [usually of color]...
This is a false assumption that one arrives at simply because we never see riots erupting when the cops kill a white (uncolored?) person. It is not newsworthy.
Warning: Acknowledging the following statistics will mark you as a racist.
While the statistics are questionable and woefully incomplete, it looks from different sources (National Institute of Health here and Journalist Resource here) that in the absolute majority of police killings the victims are white people.
That said, Black Americans are only about 12% of the population but represent 32% of the victims of police homicide. Statistics (FBI here) indicate Black Americans are also responsible for a likewise disproportionate amount of the violent crime in America, with Black Americans being responsible for a stunning 53% of all murders (arguably the very worst of possible violent crimes), so some of the disparity in cop killings could be a reflection of that.
We have a couple ways of approaching this disparity in police killing by race. We can focus on the fact that more Black Americans are killed than white ones relative to population size. Anyone who focuses upon this aspect of the problem will necessarily be satisfied by a doubling of the number of white people murdered by cops, bringing the races into rough parity in their death-by-cop rates.
Alternatively, we can admit that cops are killing way too many people regardless of race. If our emotional state will allow a bit more nuance and self-criticism, we could even acknowledge that American culture has a massive and deeply rooted problem with violence in general, and psycho killer cops are just a natural consequence of a psycho society.
For whoever cares, this psycho society we have is because our society has as its foundation the purest expression of capitalism in human history. Capitalist ideology permeates all aspects of our society. It is inescapable. As such zero-sum competition defines our interpersonal relationships. We view ourselves as individual competitors fighting over limited resources, and indeed we cannot even imagine how the world could work otherwise. If you are not the dog doing the eating, then you will be the dog getting eaten. Capitalist ideology is embedded so deeply under Americans' consciousness that they believe it is human nature (spoiler: it is not).
What does this have to do with racial disparity in who the cops kill? In capitalism everything is a commodity, including life itself. Anyone who disagrees has not spent much time thinking about how insurance works. People of lower economic value (less wealth; crappier jobs) are simply less valuable as human beings. People can even have negative value if they have negative wealth (debt) and their behavior costs their community more than they earn. Chronic unemployment and petty crime is the norm for young Black American men, not the exception, thus from a capitalist perspective they have negative value as human beings. Like it or not, from a capitalist perspective, killing them is a service to society.
We can gnash our teeth and rail against the injustice of it all, but that injustice is an inseparable part of our capitalist society. "You cannot have capitalism without racism" --Malcolm X. You cannot just get rid of the racism part and keep the part that housed you in a comfy McMansion for just doing some trivial managerial tasks of no real economic value.
So we need a revolution to move up to the next level of civilization. Tall order! Fortunately this issue of cops killing gives us a perfect excuse to get busy working on the preliminaries for that revolution. Basically, police forces, as an institution, need to go. People need to get together in their communities (`cuz that's the level where this has to start) and try to come up with ways of making their communities safe, not just from criminals but from the cops. You need to take this seriously and try to think up how you and your neighbors can make the neighborhood safe enough that your kid sister (or granddaughter or whatever) can walk home from her friend's house at any hour of the night and not only feel safe, but not even imagine that there could be any dangers more real than ghosts and sewer alligators... and accomplish that without a "professional" police force. I would suggest neighborhood militias with elected officers and mandatory rotating duty just to seed the discussion.
Posted by: William R Henry | Jun 1 2020 21:16 utc | 72
Gee why all the fuss? Americans have been bombing brown people in other countries for decades. A police officer kneels on a man's neck and suddenly Yemen doesn't exist? I hope the States combust into a beautiful, funeral pyre. So enamoured with violence. Violence the means, violence the goal, violence the answer, violence the identity. And the banks smile on the sidelines. Great distraction! Well done! So easy to guide and manipulate public concerns. Just don't ever question the legality of the US Dollar.
Posted by: Jezabeel | Jun 1 2020 21:16 utc | 73
@65 Schmatzi
Cicero was a slave- owning, aristocratic slumlord with utter detestion towards the pleb.
Seems like you have your "understanding" of the Late Roman Republic from this ever so noble gentleman -historian /s
Posted by: vato | Jun 1 2020 21:17 utc | 74
If you want to know what is going on in fascist UK under our government of occupation please look at the newscast on this site...
https://www.ukcolumn.org/
Posted by: Hudd | Jun 1 2020 21:17 utc | 75
You can fix something’s that are broken some are beyound repair and should be scrapped !
The United States of America now needs to be scrapped.
Here’s why ———
Consider the Law !
No not that one stupid !
The Law of unforeseen consequences !
By now the entire population of America have seen —
1) George Floyd brutally murdered by 4 cops, on camera whilst on the ground and not resisting arrest.
2) the cops on mass abusing inocent people black or white even in their own homes, shot , a small girl deliberately trampled by police horse, people rundown by police cars.
3) The encouragement given to the above brutality by The President of the United States.
So the unintended result is obveous. Only a fool would not carry a gun shoot first and ask questions later. I don’t condone that, far from it. It’s just bloody tragic. But it’s reallity.
And it will be a thing for sure. Dead blacks = Dead cops !
I’m against it. Trump created it !
Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 1 2020 21:19 utc | 76
Yes, It's True.... Today, Ross Ashcroft on his program Renegade Inc continues to follow up on the Four Horsemen documentary by interviewing Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson and showing additional footage from the interview done with him for the film which sadly wasn't included or aired until now. Yes, Wilkerson's clearly an Establishment figure, but he doesn't think or hold what many would consider Establishment views. Entirely worth spending 25 minutes of your precious time viewing and closely listening. At the 4:28 mark, the first of the omitted earlier interview begins, but well before that point, Wilkerson ought to have your ear--do note what he calls all members of Congress at the end of that clip! At 18:00, please note who he says is behind it all!
All I can say about that show at the moment is WOW!! Watch it!!
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 1 2020 21:19 utc | 77
@Alpi@55: "The fact that the other officers did not intervene makes them complicit in the act and should be brought up on manslaughter charges and accessory to commit murder."
There were 4 cops there - three on Mr. Floyd and one short fat fuck acting as a guard for them. I think the cop sitting on Mr. Floyd's back was as much responsible for the death as the one on his neck. The cop on Mr. Floyd's back was pressing down on the ribcage, which would prevent Mr. Floyd from being able to inhale properly. This basically causes suffocation. Doing what either of those two cops alone did could have caused his death. They all should be charged with murder, in my opinion.
@ RJPJR @ 57 - I watched the video you linked to. Jesus H Christ. Did you notice that despite having checked Mr. Floyd's pulse and knowing he was dead, they did not bother to remove the handcuffs before putting him on the stretcher? Like they thought he might magically awaken and be "a problem"?
---------
So Trump tells the governors in a group phone call to "dominate" the protesters.“ "You have to dominate, if you don’t dominate you’re wasting your time,” he said in a phone call with the governors on Monday, leaked by the press in the afternoon.
“You’ve got to arrest people, you have to track people, you have to put them in jail for 10 years and you’ll never see this stuff again,” he added. “We have all the resources – it’s not like we don’t have the resources. So, I don’t know what you’re doing.”
Such a tough law and order shit, this guy is. I wonder what kind of role playing he and Melanoma indulge in: who's the sadist and who's the masochist?
And also from the news: A Trump advisor told the WaPo that Trump is "over coronavirus", and has been for a long time. Wants to get on with the election fisticuffs. Too bad for the rest of us that corona isn't over us. Over 106,600 dead in US as of today.
Posted by: teri | Jun 1 2020 21:20 utc | 78
The 62 is Pat Lang proper...
That kind of bravata with the weapons they own is typical of him...
They, who? A minority of privileged and some others sucking from the tit... as the roots clearly have shown... No weapons will detain hundreds of millions, as soon as more join the ranges of impoverished, more will join the riots..
Some have said that the roots and looting have been counterproductive for the protesters. Well, in the eyes of the honest people, may be, but these will end joining them anyway once robbed of everything they own. But with respect those who are expecting the order from the CiC to start the slaughter of the
poor and the left, they have achieved that, for the first time in almost a century, fear has changed sides, and that is an important victory they go out there to get almost instinctively, without thinking of it too much, warned by their young instinct of survival that it was now or never.
War and revolution is not a popularity contest, and after all, the Trumpsters already despiced them widely enough.
Posted by: H. Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 21:25 utc | 79
RJPJR @ 57
Wow. Everyone watch that clip. That was prearranged. Whole scene is following a script and there are no accidents. Every actor hits his mark. Every actor is in on the scam.
Other things I would say on other points but wow. Amazing bit of video and it gives away the game.
Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 1 2020 21:29 utc | 80
Seems like you have your "understanding" of the Late Roman Republic from this ever so noble gentleman -historian /s
Hint:
The author is a woman.
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Jun 1 2020 21:30 utc | 81
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 1 2020 21:19
Do not tell me, your candidate to lead the coming military junta instead of O'Shaugnessy?.
Posted by: H. Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 21:35 utc | 82
Posted by: vato | Jun 1 2020 21:17 utc | 74
Everybody in certain position in Rome owned slaves, let alone a senator.
Not the idea I have of the man through the eyes of a writer who does not seem to me at all suspicious of being an imperialist or a fascist.
Posted by: H. Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 21:42 utc | 83
@ Posted by: H. Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 21:02 utc | 65
Can't believe I'm discussing Roman Republic in such a time and place, but here we go:
1) All the Roman kings are legendary. The only certain thing is that Rome was a kingdom before it became a republic and that it was indeed founded circa 753 BCE. Historians also agree that the end of the kingdom was - for whatever reason(s) - very traumatic to Rome. The Romans refused to revive the title "Rex" until its definitive end, in 1453.
2) Why Cicero didn't seize power? Well, let's see: to begin with, he was at the wrong side of History. In what Julius Caesar lacked in support among the senatorial elite (optimates) he enjoyed in popular support. When he was assassinated, it was clear there was no space for things to remain as they were.
3) The Empire, in terms of popular welfare and power, was the most democratic era of Rome. Senatorial governors were largely substituted by imperial professional bureaucrats - who were much more efficient and much less corrupt (as they had to report directly to the emperor). The army's professionalization was enhanced further. Career systems were broadened, so now the Roman equestrian class (equivalent to the middle class) could now have and build up their careers. Wealth was centralized at the Imperial fiscus, which, in the context of a very primitive economic system, elevated Roman economic efficiency to levels never seen or imagined before. Egypt was finally conquered and rationalized directly by the imperial office, which granted the Roman people free food - this declined after the pax romana ended and then was shifted to Constantinople, but lasted until the Vandal conquest of North Africa (the event that effectively ended the Roman Empire in the West).
William R Henry @72--
Thanks for your well placed commentary. Cutting through to the core of the problem is always fraught. If Wilkerson was to read your comment, IMO he'd agree as he just said as much in his interview I linked @77. I agree we need to organize from the family/neighborhood/community level and then progress from there, reclaiming sovereignty one step at a time. How that's going to be done in megalopolises presents a big challenge. But I must also agree with Wilkerson when he says today's ills will be solved by the generation that's just entered college, those born at the onset of the Millennium, not by us of his generation, of which I'm one. Yes, it's a War, but the Solution goes far beyond the mere Winning, looks simple enough, but is much more difficult than imagined.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 1 2020 21:48 utc | 85
H.Schmatz @83--
Why not watch the program first?
vk @84--
You're too funny!! Sorry I woke you up!
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 1 2020 21:55 utc | 86
teri @ 78
Agree with your sentiment and passion. But proving that in the court is another matter, in order to get a murder charge. Regardless, a good prosecutor can throw the book at them and get maximum sentence for manslaughter which is minimum 10 years. Of course, after that comes the civil suits which will further punish these idiots. Either way, their lives are ruined, as it should be.
There is something about the job description of a cop that is about protecting the defenseless and the weak. Exact opposite happened.
Posted by: Alpi | Jun 1 2020 21:56 utc | 87
oldhippie | 80
"Other things I would say on other points but wow."
I would say paramedics were told by headquarters to just go and pick up a body, and not bother with any measures much. Headquarters in turn were told just that by the police, maybe even the officers on the scene themselves.
Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jun 1 2020 22:01 utc | 88
Lizard,
It is true -- that barflies have way too much time on their hands. All keyboard warriors unit.
It is true -- that this is not a color revolution around the world, but perhaps (small p), color of skin's revolution at home.
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jun 1 2020 22:10 utc | 90
Posted by: vk | Jun 1 2020 21:43 utc | 84
Yeah, Cicero doubted, backtracked before the responsability of such odisey, and mainly desisted, feeling that the masses had been so brutalized by the effects of Caesar dictatorship, that they only wanted to follow being directed by brute force of the fascio, once the cultural life of Rome erased by the simplistic culture of war.
Thus is why the current elites need a population brutalized enough through a number of generations to instale the fascist junta which they deem will save the current Empire.
Posted by: H. Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 22:11 utc | 91
193 -- Didius Julianus, Roman Emperor, killed by Rome's Danube legions.
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Jun 1 2020 22:12 utc | 93
@ karlof1 @77
Thanks for the link to the Wilkerson interview on Renegade Inc. Excellent.
Posted by: teri | Jun 1 2020 22:16 utc | 94
teri | Jun1 21:20 @ 78
@ RJPJR @ 57 - I watched the video you linked to. Jesus H Christ. Did you notice that despite having checked Mr. Floyd's pulse and knowing he was dead, they did not bother to remove the handcuffs before putting him on the stretcher? Like they thought he might magically awaken and be "a problem"?
oldhippie | Jun1 21:29 @ 80
RJPJR @ 57 - Wow. Everyone watch that clip. That was prearranged.
What strikes me about the video is that even after finding no pulse Chauvin continues to apply his knee to George Floyd's neck. No officer or EMT (if they really are EMT) requests that Chauvin stop. And, as other have noted, no emergency treatment is begun.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 1 2020 22:33 utc | 95
Cicero was a woman?
No, the author of SPQR is a woman.
Obvious no knowledge of this publication.
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Jun 1 2020 22:35 utc | 96
Those truths do not amount to the predominant fact that people are FED UP with oppression and the rigged political system that leaves them POWERLESS again and again. Who cares what groups are converging and overlapping.
The status quo is unsustainable and it's erupting!
If Trump cracks down on the protesters with military force he will have to rescind the sanctions on China, Russia and Venezuela AND, that rocket ship to the abyss of hell moment Farakhan described back in 2016 that Trump would accelerate, will commence now.
All those truths are distraction from what is legitimately happening. REVOLT AGAINST THE UNJUST STATUS QUO. Period. This truth supercedes all else going on. This truth is bigger than the George Floyd murder, bigger than peaceful vs riot, bigger than who is or is not involved in either of these. People are ready to take on the entire corrupt system. This could be the birth of a 2nd Revolution.
Posted by: Circe | Jun 1 2020 22:37 utc | 97
@ Posted by: H. Schmatz | Jun 1 2020 22:11 utc | 91
Actually, Cicero was a big time conservative (optimates, boni). He abhorred land reform of the Gracchi, and was more than happy to see their heads at the Forum.
That was Caesar (and his dynasty) secret of success: they were extremely cruel with the elite (Senate) but extremely generous with the people (populus). That's why the Julio-Claudians managed to govern for so much time, no matter how many political blunders they committed and how many senators they executed. It was only when Nero lost support of the masses with his financially ruinous reign and his megalomaniac project at Rome's center (which ruined many poor families) that the Julio-Claudian dynasty lost its political grip.
Culturally, you could say there was a decline, but even that is relative with the evidence that survived to our times. Rhetoric certainly declined, but poetry flourished during Augustus. Law certainly flourished during the Empire: the greatest Roman law theorists are from this time (they still have a direct influence in the West). Theater flourished during the Empire in the form of the Pantomime, a very popular form of "art" (the Romans didn't have a concept of art as we have today). Sculpture and painting were mere propaganda outlets for the Romans: they only served to make the people aware of who was the emperor of the time. When Augustus ordered mass production of statues portraying his image, he wasn't being artistic: there was no mass press and photographs in Ancient Rome, so statues were the way to go to develop a personality cult.
In terms of sports, chariot race was by far the most popular - and continued to do so during the Byzantine era (the famous Nika Riot was triggered because of it). Gladiator fights also rose sharply in popularity during the Empire - indeed, it only became a spectacle because of it. During the Republic, gladiatorial fights were exclusively funeral games, when a very wealthy and important paterfamilias died. However, gladiatorial games were so expensive that it was directly regulated by the Imperial Office, the emperor directly rationalizing the games possible so they could fall smoothly towards the entire year.
Another popular spectacle was the execution of convicts. To appease the masses, local governors and lower bureaucrats (praetors) used and abused their creativity: death by beasts was the most common, but there were other bizarre ways - the more bizarre and cruel, the higher the delight of the masses.
Message to Trump, police and military: Don't attack the protestors! Justice will prevail.
Posted by: Circe | Jun 1 2020 22:43 utc | 99
Noirette | Jun1 17:26 @ 19
what are the politcal demands?
They are demanding justice for George Floyd.
They want Chauvin to be charged with first degree murder and the other officers to be charged as accessories.
The impression that the protesters have no demands and just want to loot stores is exactly what the establishment want people to believe.
<> <> <> <>
Everyone I've talked with think that the protesters demands make sense. But the establishment would rather see more death and destruction - and martial law - than do the right thing.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 1 2020 22:45 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
It's true the Trotskyists are the third wheel of the capitalists:
No to American fascism! Build a mass movement to force Trump out!
What a difference of treatment by the WSWS between the USA and China!
When the HK protests were at their height (the first ones, not these) all we could read in their website was toppling the entire government and destroying the CCP completely.
Now that the target is the USA, the narrative is simply socialism=remove Trump.
Unbelievable.
--//--
It's true the fascists are no damn localists/nationalists:
Rússia se incomoda com Bolsonaristas com bandeira neonazista ucraniana
PM paulista “protege” bolsonarista com taco de beisebol, mas atira bombas em antifascistas; vídeos
--//--
It's true that contemporary capitalism is in a structural crisis, and is resorting more and more to vulgar, aggressive and deceiving propaganda to keep itself afloat:
Why AI isn’t nearly as smart as it looks
Extremely fast stupidity is not AI. Our supercomputers can't even see, let alone think.
Posted by: vk | Jun 1 2020 16:19 utc | 1