Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 11, 2020

Coronavirus - How A German City Proved That Wearing Masks Works

A new study shows that mandatory mask wearing is the most effective measure during the Covid-19 epidemic.

On March 23 we started to urge everyone to wear masks during the Covid-19 pandemic:

Wearing a mask helps with protecting oneself but even more importantly helps to protect others. One might be carrying and spreading the disease without knowing it. We all release fine droplets when we speak, sneeze or cough. Masks prevent one's droplets from spreading out.

There was and still is a lot of cultural resistance in 'western' societies to wearing masks even as it seem obvious that masks help to prevent infections. But while there was evidence that masks work in certain situation there was no scientific research that showed the effects general mask wearing would have on the growth of the epidemic. We did not know how much general mask wearing would 'flatten the curve'.

We now have a sound answer. There is now a study that compares a city which ordered everyone to wear masks with a similar city that had no 'mask-up' order during the same period of the epidemic.

On April 6 the German city of Jena with a population of 110,000 people ordered everyone to wear a mask in all public settings. The announcement of the order was made a week earlier and was followed by a local awareness campaign - "Jena wears mask!"

No other city in Germany did this at the time. The states of Germany only ordered mandatory mask wearing between April 22 and 26.

For 20 days Jena was different than the rest of the country but experienced the same epidemic. That made it possible to test the effect the mask order had on the number of new cases in Jena.

To be able to make a one to one comparison with Jena researchers from the University of Mainz constructed a 'synthetic city' of the same size and demographic characteristics as Jena from the weighted data of six other German cities (selected from a bigger pool). They then compared the Covid-19 case data from Jena with the case data from the synthetic city.

At the beginning of the pandemic in Germany the synthetic city and Jena had similar developments. But ten days after the announcement of the order and four days after its mandatory implementation the case numbers in Jena dropped away from those of the comparison city.


bigger

The people in Jena started to wear masks before other German cities did so. It nearly immediately paid off.

At the time of the announcement of the mask campaign Jena and the synthetic control city each had 93 cases. On April 6 Jena had 142 registered cases compared to 143 cases in the synthetic control city. On April 26 Jena counted 158 cases and the synthetic control city had 205 cases. It shows a significant reduction in the growth of the epidemic.

The authors conclude:

We believe that the reduction in the growth rates of infections by 40% to 60% is our best estimate of the effects of face masks.
...
We should also stress that 40 to 60% might still be a lower bound. The daily growth rates in the number of infections when face masks were introduced was around 2 to 3%. These are very low growth rates compared to the early days of the epidemic in Germany, where daily growth rates also lay above 50%. One might therefore conjecture that the effects might have been even greater if masks had been introduced earlier.

Japan and South Korea both brought the epidemic under control without ordering harsh lockdowns. The people there all wore masks from very early on even without being ordered to do so. The two countries also did extensive testing and contact tracing for each new case. Together these measures were enough to stop the outbreak.

Why didn't we copy them?

It was 'western' arrogance that prevented our societies from learning from China and other Asian societies. We should have used the time China had given us. The economic and human price for not having done so is very high.

Posted by b on June 11, 2020 at 18:40 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Posted by: Jen | Jun 12 2020 0:13 utc | 55

"Compulsory mask-wearing for the general public might even have led to worse results if the masks that were available to the public did not meet the required safety standards or were worn improperly."

You seem to be confusing respirators with masks. There is no required safety standard for covering your mouth when you breathe/cough/sneeze. All one has to do is cover their mouth/nose, just like mom told us when we were children. As far as wearing improperly, some folks like to wear a face covering but leave their nose uncovered. Respirators protect the wearer from incoming pathogens. Face coverings protect those around the wearer from the wearer.

Posted by: anonymous | Jun 12 2020 12:36 utc | 101

The anti mask idiots don't realize that the governments would rather Noone wear a mask so they can continue their facial recognition plans. Don't forget the hijabs were deemed illegal just months ago.

Now the governments have to forcefully acknowledge and accept masks in public. And the anti mask propaganda is being accepted by tinfoil hat wearing idiots. "Oh my god wear a mask means you are being controlled! After the mask comes the microchip with the 666 serial #!"

Idiots

Posted by: Comandante | Jun 12 2020 12:37 utc | 102

It appears the msm has stopped reporting on Canadian soldiers being infected in LTC homes, despite them having all the protective gear
Last report was 36. Up from the previous report of 28 in less then a week

https://globalnews.ca/news/6986628/canadian-military-coronavirus-long-term-care-homes/

"Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says the Canadian military will keep assisting in nursing homes in Ontario and Quebec, though 36 members of the Canadian Forces have come down with COVID-19 while doing so.

That’s up from 28 cases of the novel coronavirus among those troops less than a week ago."

Imagine that an increase of 8 diagnosed in just one week?
Interesting that the media hasn't covered that news for nearly two weeks now- because in all probability the numbers have continued to increase and that information would contradict the claims of masks offering protection against the virus.

Posted by: R Rose | Jun 12 2020 12:43 utc | 103

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 12 2020 7:18 utc | 71

"The mask is a symbol of submission to the false narrative, nothing else."

Your post is a symbol of idiocy and nothing else.

Posted by: anonymous | Jun 12 2020 12:47 utc | 104

Mina | Jun 12 2020 7:19 utc | 72

"+65 should wear masks since they are 90% of the fatalities and since they will feel reassured from wearing it."

Wearing face coverings will do nothing to protect old folks. They need respirators. Wearing face coverings around old folks will protect said old folks.

Posted by: anonymous | Jun 12 2020 12:52 utc | 105

How long will we have to wear masks ? Best to ask the people responsible for the virus and it’s wonten spread ?
Let the blame for the above lay where it should. But oh no that blame question was all to quickly brushed aside.
———-
As to humans being good or bad ! Don’t lets generalise.
Some humans have ‘humanity’ some don’t (inhuman)
Which should we value most.
———-
Catch up you guys, it’s like pulling teeth.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 12 2020 12:53 utc | 106

Every time b writes a post on Covid-19, many people feel compelled to voice an opinion. In voicing their opinions, they seem to forget that this is b's blog. It's his opinion and he graciously allows commentary. But fundamentally it's his blog, his,B/> opinion. He can censor if he wants or allow what he wants or thinks others here need to see. If you don't like it, don't read it. Start your own blog if this doesn't agree with your views.

Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Jun 12 2020 12:54 utc | 107

Posted by: nero | Jun 12 2020 7:38 utc | 74

"We all know who created the virus."

Was it Xenu and the Scientologists?

Posted by: anonymous | Jun 12 2020 12:54 utc | 108

Leser | Jun 12 2020 10:50 utc | 92

"...why cloth masks are pointless for Covid (except possibly if worn by symptomatic people to protect others, although that effect is dubious too)"

Wearing face coverings to protect others around you is the whole point. There is no other reason. A respirator is worn to protect the wearer, assuming they had a fit test and don't have any facial hair.

Posted by: anonymous | Jun 12 2020 13:09 utc | 109

Leser @112

Yes, we already know that you are an idiot who doesn't understand how statistical modelling works and isn't afraid of using that ignorance as a rhetorical weapon. Fortunately for you the Dunning-Kruger effect is a deeply ingrained component of your identity, allowing you to flaunt that ignorance proudly. Unfortunately for the culture from which you hail, celebrating stupidity is a historical dead end.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 12 2020 13:12 utc | 110

Americans really really really do not like wearing masks. I don't get it. They are a small token of consideration that hurt no one; it is no skin off my back to wear one and I do so without a whimper.

This infantile fit people are throwing because they have to wear this horrible, Constitutionally-threatening cloth over their face in certain public situations is way out of proportion to the inconvenience it causes.

I think it's because Americans, and most everyone in the the developed Western world is obese and breathlessly out of shape.

Posted by: Garbage in... | Jun 12 2020 13:16 utc | 111

If you feel it protects you, great. Personally, i dont. You can post all the stats and studies you want, it comes down to what you believe. That being said, regardless of what you believe, you should NOT be compelled to wear a mask. If i choose to go without, ITS MY CHOICE. And for those of you weariing masks thinking i 'might' get you sick. Nothing to fear. Youre wearing a mask. Youre six feet away. And your dousing yourself with copious amounts of alcohol. YOU ARE PROTECTED. The state said so.

Posted by: Andrew | Jun 12 2020 13:19 utc | 112

Posted by: Andrew | Jun 12 2020 13:19 utc | 115

"If you feel it protects you, great. Personally, i dont. You can post all the stats and studies you want, it comes down to what you believe. That being said, regardless of what you believe, you should NOT be compelled to wear a mask. If i choose to go without, ITS MY CHOICE. And for those of you weariing masks thinking i 'might' get you sick. Nothing to fear. Youre wearing a mask. Youre six feet away. And your dousing yourself with copious amounts of alcohol. YOU ARE PROTECTED. The state said so."

Your feelings are irreverent, but it's definitely a personal decision to be a complete and total douche bag. It does not come down to what you believe unless you're an idiot. If you sneezed or coughed in someone's face you could expect to be physically assaulted. Not wearing a mask around other folks is the exact same thing except that this time you may be spreading potentially deadly pathogens. If coughing can get you punched in the face then what do you think not wearing a mask is going to precipitate? Wearing a face covering does not protect the wearer, it protects those around the wearer. How many times must this point be stated until the idiots get the message?

Posted by: anonymous | Jun 12 2020 13:31 utc | 113

I can't speak for Korea or China having never lived in those countries, but as a Japanese (even if living abroad for over 35 years) I can say that the analysis of arrogance does not explain why face masks are not normal fashion in the "West". What is easier to explain is that wearing of masks for seasonal flu and seasonal pollen is pretty normal in Japan and from time period earlier than Covid, MERS, or SARS. The fact that a many habitually wore masks publicly, made it not abnormal for those who do not normally use them to accept having to wear masks on this special occasion of a pandemic. Other factors, now speculated to be contributing to the relatively small damage of the Wuhan corona in Japan are also already existent conditions. The abnormal availability of CT, credit of which should go to the salesmanship of medical equipment suppliers, until recently would have been considered excessive indulgence. It has proven to be a stroke of good luck. The fact that Japanese do not wear shoes into their homes is also a precondition that apparently helps keep virus at bay. There probably is more emphasis on washing of hands in pre and early primary education, where incidentally children also learn to serve school lunch on duty roster which also entails wearing of face masks. The list of happenstance reasons does not end here. The whole argument about testing was made redundent by the limited capacity of testing, yielding some arguable benefits, False positives and false negatives occur less times.It also appears that the testing regime was more exacting and therefore difficult to come by. We are now finding that tests do not help in discovering early stage of carriers' virulency. Add to that
"mass testing" caused spread of infections as well, avoided by not having testing capacity. As to effectiveness of masks common sense tells you that if everybody wore masks the means of transport of the virus in air is made more difficult. Arguments about the size of the virus has nothing to do with the size of the means of transport, the most significant of which in this pandemic has been airlines weighing tons.

Posted by: YY | Jun 12 2020 13:31 utc | 114

Posted by: Andrew | Jun 12 2020 13:19 utc | 115

I think Andrew that the point in wearing a mask, when it is a known fact that people without symptoms can invect people with it, suggests that it is a matter of courtesy to wear the mask in crowded situations whether you "belive" it is effective or not.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 12 2020 13:36 utc | 115

Top 20 COVID-19 hotspots...

https://uziiw38pmyg1ai60732c4011-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/dropzone/2020/06/EaGgGF4UYAAJIg1.png

75% = prisons/jails
20% = meatpacking plants
5% = aircraft carrier

Posted by: DesertFoxx | Jun 12 2020 13:42 utc | 116

Posted by: YY | Jun 12 2020 13:31 utc | 117

"wearing of masks for seasonal flu and seasonal pollen is pretty normal in Japan". One cannot really catch an allergy from someone else. And the pollen can also get inside open windows in the spring, so one would have to wear one constantly. I haven't ever worn one in the "flu season" and probably wouldn't. If you are worried about getting a flu, there are flu shots, and if you get the flu, you know what you have pretty much and can isolate at home.

With Covid, MERS, and SARS1 we have either high death rates or people without symptoms wandering around unintentionally, and unknowingly infecting people. It is necessary to consider a mask in these situations.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 12 2020 13:47 utc | 117

Posted by: DesertFoxx | Jun 12 2020 13:42 utc | 119

I guess they forgot to consider care homes.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 12 2020 13:49 utc | 118


It doesn't make sense to wear a mask if there are no infectious people walking around, or 1 per 1 million, which is probably an accurate estimation for Germany.

The pro-mask people, in their Angst bubble, don't realize the negative effects:

It is unhealthy for the wearer.

The half-faces generate unconscious fear to those who are confronted with them, especially children. F.i. The usual smile when meeting someone - gone! Ask neuro-biologist Gerald Hüther.

It creates an atmosphere of denunciation. Ask those who are exempt from it for health reasons and are rudely scolded by Angst people.

And it is, in Germany, part of an emergency law and has no parliamentary justification, which it should have. That's why several lawsuits have been enacted.

Covid-19 is no plague, it is a somewhat heavy flu. And it has disappeared, as every flu does in the summertime. Get over it.


Posted by: mk | Jun 12 2020 14:09 utc | 119

When it is pollen it is to avoid breathing it, when it is flu it is to avoid spreading it, or more concisely, to avoid bad manners of appearing to spread it. There is peer pressure and there is the norm of public behavior. This is mostly the effect of having public transport as the normal means of getting around. If you do not want to be stared down or have some busy body give you a hard time, right now with the virus, you would wear a mask to get on the train. It is as simple as that. I don't need to be living in Japan right now to get my head around that one. Here in Australia it would look odd and possibly unfriendly to wear a mask.

Posted by: YY | Jun 12 2020 14:09 utc | 120

The point is that it has to remain a personal responsibility and not a law. States and companies can enforce it where seen as necessary (confined spaces with crowds; moist atmosphere) but if simply "obligatory" with force of law, you end up forcing people who live in open environments where you hardly ever come at less than 2 meters of someone on the street to wear a mask. For what kind of benefit (except the companies and shops in the business) and for how long?

Posted by: Mina | Jun 12 2020 14:14 utc | 121

I always thought one wears the mask in the vain of “I am my brothers’ keeper,” Not to protect oneself from the virus. Humiliation and submission be dammed. When one wears a mask it is less likely that one will extrude droplets, when coughing, sneezing, or speaking out loud. Simple as that.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jun 12 2020 14:19 utc | 122

I might be crazy, but I do think it is possible to not agree with our host, and to also NOT be a troll. Richard Hack wants to reduce ALL disagreement to the work of TROLLS with an AGENDA.

if you want sanitized comment threads, Richard, why not start your own blog and invite everyone who thinks like you to stop by your little echo chamber? just redirect some of that energy that is going toward making dozens of comments on each post YELLING that everyone who doesn't agree with you is a TROLL

I continue to find it odd how someone with so much hate and contempt for other humans simultaneously wants them to mask-up to save their neighbors from the plague.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 12 2020 14:25 utc | 123

The cloth mask used by most everyone, whether homemade or store bought in designer colors, is worthless. The tightest weave has pores that are 80 microns in diameter, about the size of a human hair. The Coronavirus is .125 in diameter - 640 times smaller. To illustrate, it’s the same as a ping pong passing through a hoop 80 feet in diameter.

Posted by: Michael Kent | Jun 12 2020 14:34 utc | 124

@ 94 William Gruff: attributed to Ghandi (no idea whether authentic): Q: "What do you think about Western civilization?"
A: "I would be highly in favor of."

Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 12 2020 14:47 utc | 125

@116

Your feelings are irreverent, but it's definitely a personal decision to be a complete and total douche bag. It does not come down to what you believe unless you're an idiot. If you sneezed or coughed in someone's face you could expect to be physically assaulted. Not wearing a mask around other folks is the exact same thing except that this time you may be spreading potentially deadly pathogens. If coughing can get you punched in the face then what do you think not wearing a mask is going to precipitate? Wearing a face covering does not protect the wearer, it protects those around the wearer. How many times must this point be stated until the idiots get the message?

Exactly. An organized effort and movement would arm everyone and use the gun laws written by these goons against them to eliminate these baboonish buffoons once and for all. Use open carry and stand-your-ground laws and self-defense laws to shoot and kill those who refuse to wear a mask and refuse to social distance. When they invade your space without a mask, they are threatening your life and per the laws they wrote, you have a right to defend yourself and blow them away. Hoist them on their own petards.

This Man Is Proof That We Are Nothing More Than Glorified Chimpanzees. If He Was Black, He'd Be Dead Right Now But Since He's A Baboon, He's Alive Because Pigs Love Baboons, Don't You Know. Animal Farm.

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 12 2020 14:54 utc | 126

Michael Kent @ 127
Have you been living in a cave this last 3 months ? Your comment is ether deliberately misleading or ill informed. Perhaps read the many previous MOA posts. Your theory was disproved way back.
I only say this as, the whole virus conversation is just going round and round and getting no where. While the body’s pile up.
Have a care.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 12 2020 14:55 utc | 127

Michael Kent | Jun 12 2020 14:34 utc | 127

"To illustrate, it’s the same as a ping pong passing through a hoop 80 feet in diameter."

You're forgetting about the water. You must include the size of H2O.

Posted by: anonymous | Jun 12 2020 14:57 utc | 128

My guess is, those who advocate not wearing masks also consider wiping your ass or having a clean ass at all to be pretentious and highfalutin. In otherwords, they're anal expulsives and we all know anal expulsives love their shit. They love to wallow in it and they want others to wallow in it too. They're also more likely to have STDs, no doubt. They'll put their dick in anything, even sheep or any barnyard or wild animal and hot moist apple pies as well. Effectively, they're the missing links in the evolutionary chain that walk amongst us.

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 12 2020 15:03 utc | 129

Trump has insisted that masks not be worn at the upcoming rallies and that social distancing not be required and in fact discouraged. On the other hand, if you happen to contract COVID-19 at one of these rallies, he's protected himself legally meaning he acknowledges that not wearing a mask and not social distancing increases the chances you will contract COVID-19. He is a criminal. He is a murdering psychopath. The world at large since the Dems can't and won't do it, needs to have him forcibly removed before he destroys not only America entirely but also the world. He and the cabal that is using him as a foil need to be arrested and imprisoned in The Hague until their trial before the ICC.

Trump Makes Supporters Sign Liability Waiver in Case They Get Coronavirus at His Campaign Rally

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 12 2020 15:30 utc | 130

@ 110 Digital Spartacus ... good comment... thanks.. you get it!

Posted by: james | Jun 12 2020 16:00 utc | 131

Posted by: YY | Jun 12 2020 14:09 utc | 123

The way to avoid spreading the flu is not to go outside wearing a mask, coughing into it, while with a fever, aches and chills. Politeness would be you in bed at home drinking plenty of fluids, getting rest and possibly taking pain relievers.

The flus and Covid19 are like comparing apples and oranges. In the former case, you can easily see that someone else has it, and it comes on quickly if you get it. Thus you should immediately head for bed and not be walking out and about with ot without a mask.

With Covid, people may not even know they are infected and can spread the disease unknowingly, even as super spreaders. This is why a mask is considered important, not just as a courtesy but because may actually reduce the possibility of others getting the disease.

This is my point.

As for allergies, the people I know who have allergies like hay fever, have medicines for them and are highly unlikely to want to wear a mask through the season given it is a bigger inconvenience than the allergy itself. If you know the cause you can avoid the cause. Antihistimines and decongestants seem to work fine for those that I know.

Again Covid is a different type of virus, and this is why we need to consider things like wearing masks and gloves, practicing better personal hygiene (which people ought to do anyway) avoiding crowds and protecting the most vulnerable. It is not the flu. The need for the mask is quite different.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 12 2020 16:32 utc | 132

William Gruff @100--

As you know, I wrote about nations's expected outcomes based on their collectivist or individualist credos back in January when this was in the process of unfolding, and the results are as you noted above. I wrote the following in response to today's Escobar essay at his FB and added it to my open thread comment, and it applies here as well:

"Just finished your essay, and it's as anticipated based on your previous reporting. I'm reminded of two tales which together describe a great deal: The Tortoise and the Hare; and the Ant and the Grasshopper. The Hare has spent itself seeking immediate gratification and has burnt itself out in the process while the tortoise slowly continues with its dogged determination to make things right and proper for long term resilience. The latter parable is well illustrated by Disney of all firms in its film "A Bug's Life"--the aggressive, abusive Grasshopper Nation, while capable of inflicting great damage and chaos, is ultimately dependent on Ants everywhere for their wellbeing. What's reflected are the fundamental differences between collectivist societies/cultures and those proclaiming themselves individualistic. IMO, it'll take time but Northern European nations will eventually join the overall collective EAEU family because despite their Viking heritage, they are actually collectivists. Humanity's future success on Earth will depend on its ability to become collectively resilient--a term that's anathema to those determined to remain Individualistic."

Funny that initially in its founding documents, the nascent USA depicts itself as a Collectivist Nation but it was the Anti-Federalists who forced the Bill of Rights into existence for their collective protection against what they perceived correctly as a government endowed with far too much power and too little restrictions, particularly on the Executive. The Fears of the Collectivists have proven justified as the entire nation's subjected to the tyranny of Individualism, although there are pockets of resistance as Seattle and elsewhere prove.

As for Europe, the outcome of the Collectivist versus Individualist dynamic will be even more pronounced as EU member nations and their citizens look to establish future resilience in face of Neoliberal, Imperial and ecological onslaughts. The "Western Ants" will begin to understand their affinity with the "Eastern Ants" and see that merging with them is the best way to defend against the above Grasshopper's Triad ranged against them.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 12 2020 17:10 utc | 133


@450org #129

Obviously, to you breathing is the same as farting.

Posted by: mk | Jun 12 2020 17:44 utc | 134

I might be crazy, but I do think it is possible to not agree with our host, and to also NOT be a troll. Richard Hack wants to reduce ALL disagreement to the work of TROLLS with an AGENDA.

if you want sanitized comment threads, Richard, ...

Posted by: lizard | Jun 12 2020 14:25 utc | 123

You are absolutely wrong! I know first hand, because I disagree just to tease you, while I am a troll. My parents and all grandparents were trolls, this is how I look with family and friends
https://www.shopicelandic.com/products/troll-family-jigsaw-puzzle-1000pcs

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 12 2020 18:01 utc | 135

Again Covid is a different type of virus, and this is why we need to consider things like wearing masks and gloves, practicing better personal hygiene (which people ought to do anyway) avoiding crowds and protecting the most vulnerable. It is not the flu. The need for the mask is quite different.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 12 2020 16:32 utc | 132

I read that many people gained immunity to COVID-19 from earlier infections with relatively harmless types of corona virus. Thus we main gain by being careful with personal hygiene only when necessary. But when necessary, bite the bullet! Masks are cheap, while epidemic causes social "cytokine storm". You could give masks to each American for less than a billion, reducing economic losses in trillions.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 12 2020 18:11 utc | 136

This is on Donald Trump. It's June and the United States Government still has not procured life-saving PPE for the healthcare heroes putting their lives on the line. It's nothing short of murder. It's tantamount to Trump, and the cabal using him as a foil, gassing their own people just as Assad was accused of doing. Trump and the cabal using him as a foil need to be arrested and held in The Hague for trial before the ICC. My Trump Death Clock says Trump and the cabal using him as a foil to include Stephen Miller and who he really reports to, is now 100,000 people and counting. In my opinion, those 100,000 people were murdered.

Few N95 Masks, Reused Gowns: Dire PPE Shortages Reveal COVID-19's Racial Divide

In the early days of the pandemic, PPE shortages were affecting many major hospitals. But most of those larger facilities have now been able to replenish their supplies. Now, health care workers say it’s smaller safety net hospitals and nursing homes serving the most vulnerable communities that are still facing horrific shortages.

“They are populations that are on Medicaid or have poor access to care and face greater barriers,” said Dr. Garth Walker, an emergency room physician in Chicago, who also works with the Buehler Center for Health Policy and Economics. “The common theme is that safety net hospitals are getting less money.”

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 12 2020 18:21 utc | 137

Ctd. on WHO + masks.

The advice itself, see for ex. my excerpt at post 12, is truly bizarre. Within its very own framework.

April 6 (WHO publication.) A medical mask can prevent an infected person from ‘infecting someone else / contaminating the environment’ (paraphrase.) However, there is no evidence that wearing a mask on the part of ‘healthy’ individuals can prevent them from respiratory viruses including Covid-19.

Healthy is not defined. Can prevent them is lousy english which manages to make the main point opaque or even downright incomprehensible. (Blame the translator, an over-used excuse. In the US, it is often 'blame the intern doing our webiste'..) Protect them from…? Stop them being infected? Covid-19 is not even the correct name of the virus.

The main contradiction is, if a mask prevents the virus leaving an infected person, as a barrier, the same barrier must, logically, impede entry to another person via air into the mouth + nose. So, if the same effect does not apply, why must be explained - after all they are adressing the Public.

Many ppl in Switz. are very angry at the WHO, it is thought that the Fed. Gvmt. followed their advice when they should not have done. I know they read it, kept track, etc.

Where I live (> local story), countered that advice:

16 March. Construction workers, their Union(s), who refused to work without high grade masks, as they weren’t available, downed tools, went home, and have not returned. (Some today 12 June. Their essential tasks, e.g. to stop ppl falling into pot-holes, were carried out by Civil Protection, a citizen ‘force.’)

20 March. A huge bunker home for handicapped ppl (young ppl in wheelchairs from sports accidents, middle aged with cerebral palsy, mentally challenged to a medium degree, stroke victims .. very varied) forbade visitors without masks. I noticed most inhabitants wore masks when they went out, ex. when doing ‘sports’ outside, getting drunk in front of the supermarket, taking the bus, etc.

begin April. Public transport began to have messages about mask-wearing on the screens in the vehicles.

The reasons for the abysmal showing of the WHO - having no clear, reasoned message / no ‘we don’t know’ message, or anything vaguely honest, should be investigated.

Not just to blame them but to understand the ‘management culture’ aspects, the corruption via the funding, the political aspects that infiltrate such orgs. To try and do better. Though that may be a vain hope.

The US CDC is just as bad. As for France.. spare me.

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 12 2020 18:35 utc | 138

Andrew @112: "If you feel it protects you, great."

Your assumptions are simply wrong. Most who wear masks do so to protect you, not themselves. Those who refuse to wear masks in public places are, in effect, saying "Phuque U!" to everyone they come across. "I'm so special that displaying my ugly mug to the world is more important than preventing the spread of any diseases I may be carrying!"

Pay close attention to what karlof1 @133 wrote above. Your attitude perfectly exemplifies one side of the "Collectivist versus Individualist dynamic" that esteemed poster discusses. You feel that your own personal, individual concerns trump the needs of the society you exist within. The "Collectivist", on the other hand, acknowledges that they personally cannot thrive in a diseased and toxic society, so they must make personal accommodations to not poison that society. No walking about brandishing their raised middle fingers in the faces of everyone they pass, in other words.

As karlof1 points out above, this "Collectivist versus Individualist dynamic" is applicable beyond just dealing with pandemic, where the Individualist paradigm has clearly failed in a massive way. It also has bearing on societal harmony, where America's Individualist impulses are directly responsible for the violence, institutional and otherwise, that plagues the US. The economy? "Phuque y'all! I got my trailer load of toilet paper!", which isn't such a tremendously different attitude from the 0.1% oligarchs who got their hired help in Washington to bail them out with $trillions at the cost of burning out the economy.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 12 2020 18:43 utc | 139

William Gruff @139--

Thanks for your further elaboration of my thesis. Personal behavior makes it easy to tell which philosophy informs that individual, as the many Trolls display so well. One thing they're blind to is that their behavior actually cages them instead of providing liberty, although that might to too complicated for them to fathom.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 12 2020 19:08 utc | 140

I guess the debate about whether or not Western societies can ban islamic women from wearing face coverings in public, has now officially ended.

And so much for face recognition software. Will we be forced to wear transparent masks? Those could be really gross looking, especially if someone has been sneezing a lot (ew) and would still probably interfere with facial recognition. Although unique masks could also be tracked and used as evidence - unless of course people change them.

How long until we are all forced to wear masks with individual barcodes on them, do you think?

Posted by: TG | Jun 12 2020 20:18 utc | 141

it's interesting that the ardent mask-wearing contingent(the collective) is by far the most vitriolic, overbearing, and self-righteous...some even threatening physical violence. all the others being stoopid, ignorant, idiots, morons, trolls. being also the most enthusiastic lock-down contingent, one wonders why they don't just self-quarantine and shut the fuck up.

...at least until they can fall all over each other lining up for the mandatory vaccine.

Posted by: john | Jun 12 2020 20:26 utc | 142

Any genius here want to link to the peer-reviewed study which isolated this "virus"?

Thought not.

Posted by: doa | Jun 12 2020 21:17 utc | 143

A sitrep from my corner of the world. For Cook County, Illinois (includes Chicago) there are now over 84,000 confirmed cases. 4162 deaths. This is a covid hotspot. Although here on the ground you would never know it. Personally I do now know a couple people at the limit of acquaintance who have had the dread disease and recovered. Uneventfully, thank you. Most do not know anyone who has been ill. No one knows anyone who died. No one has heard of anyone invited to a memorial.

In this morning’s email had a letter from the local municipality of Evanston, population 70,000. There are now 59 deaths reported in Evanston. 45 of those were in nursing homes. OK. Pretty darn sure those are under reported. At least they are now being reported. There was lots of furtive hugger mugger a couple months ago as admitting mortality was bad for business. Must remember that nursing homes are first and foremost businesses. The American Way. So that leaves 14 deaths outside nursing homes out of 70,000. That is 0.02%. In a town that is definitely demographically skewed old. In the middle of a covid hotspot. The only death of anyone remotely prominent, someone I have actually seen and heard of, was the proprietor of a popular local restaurant. Only 71 years of age and reasonably healthy, though he clearly did enjoy the food he sold.

The municipal email also had a graph of covid patients at area hospitals. Not the best graphic art so some interpretation required. The larger hospital in town has between 5 and 10 hospitalized covid patients. Probably closer to five. This in a 751 bed institution. An institution that now has almost no traffic going in and out. At times during this “emergency” they have apparently had zero patients. The other hospital in town seems to have 30 or 40 patients. That hospital does draw much more from City of Chicago. Again, that hospital mostly looks deserted.

It is getting hard to sell this as an emergency when the dead bodies are just not there. Those who are determined to be alarmed and politically correct are going to keep us all in masks. And gloves. There are still definitely those who wash all the groceries they bring home and sterilize the mail. And panic if you walk past them on a sidewalk of normal width. Most of us are getting fed up. Zero point zero two per cent. In a hotspot.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 12 2020 22:03 utc | 144

For all the erudite lovers of collectivity versus individual rights, liberty, and limited government ... yes, you are indeed right. Tyrannical and mass-collective societies are likely to suffer fewer deaths in the face of epidemics and pandemics. The "best and the brightest" will enforce their opinions on everyone and all will be for the best.

Of course, along with the benefits, there may be a few hiccups like socialist disasters, famines, wars, great leaps backward, etc. But I'm sure collectivism will always be for the best for humanity.

Posted by: Caliman | Jun 12 2020 22:06 utc | 145

Looking back on the CV Pandemic from the archives:

Jan 24: Coronavirus Update from Chris Martenson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrieEghkjE0

Feb 25: Coronavirus Pandemic Is A Crisis Now Obvious To All https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V9_IuKnEdU

Apr 1: Coronavirus Update: Chris Martenson Peak Prosperity - Everybody Wear A Face Mask
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWzmKUftyoo

Posted by: gm | Jun 12 2020 22:50 utc | 146

Well, didn't take too long for the following to be proven correct:

"One thing they're blind to is that their behavior actually cages them instead of providing liberty, although that might to too complicated for them to fathom."

Nor do such folk seem to get the fact that the nascent USA was a collectivist society. Even the most individualistic folk during the 17th-19th Centuries--Trappers--required a collective to survive and to sell their pelts. These keyboard rugged individualists wouldn't survive in the bush very long without anything provided by organized society--The Collective. For starters, they'd be naked and without any tools aside from a sharp rock; and I wonder if they'd be able to recognize flint and make a fire or know how to use some other means.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 12 2020 23:25 utc | 147

Posted by: lizard | Jun 12 2020 14:25 utc | 123 I continue to find it odd how someone with so much hate and contempt for other humans simultaneously wants them to mask-up to save their neighbors from the plague.

You find it odd because you don't pay attention to my earlier comments wherein I explained that I hold two simultaneous opinions on most subjects: the "correct" opinion which applies in a rational society, and the opinion appropriate to today's society.

The first opinion is the one for "rational people in a rational society": that is, to wear masks and self-isolate until a pandemic is over. Which wouldn't even be necessary to state because they would do it automatically, like the Asian countries.

The second opinion is for *morons* - which, as this thread proves, is the state of society today. That opinion is I don't care if you wear masks. I'm wearing one, so I'm protected. Anyone else who doesn't wear a mask and gets infected and dies - well, that's "Nature's way of eliminating the stupid." And if they were infected by a *moron* who isn't wearing a mask, then the *moron* should be *executed* by anyone with the capability in support of evolution of the fittest.

How do you like me now?

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 12 2020 23:28 utc | 148

YY @ 114:

Once upon a time in the 1960s - 80s, Tokyo also had high air pollution levels and wearing masks would have been necessary to avoid breathing in toxic air pollutant particles. I read somewhere Seoul also used to have high air pollution levels.

Japan and SK's economies are highly centred around Tokyo and Seoul as well. This helps explain why commuters in Japan can travel on trains up to 3 or 4 hours a day travelling to work from as far away as 100 miles out of city - they're going to work in Tokyo. Greater metropolitan Seoul has almost half of SK's entire population. Popular culture is an important influence on social etiquette and SK pop culture used to be heavily influenced by Japanese pop culture.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 13 2020 0:11 utc | 149

One final point of evidence about the Collectivist nature of the USA at its founding. Few know a Preamble was written for the Bill of Rights that shows the collective nature of the project to form the new government and explains why its construction was necessary:

"THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.

"RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz." [My Emphasis]

I highlighted that segment to drive home the crucial point of what the federal government was charged with doing as laid out in the Constitution's Preamble:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." [My Emphasis]

Collectively, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution's Preamble form the Social Contract between the federal government and the citizenry. In my judgement, the vast majority of Trolls populating this and other websites would never be capable of initially passing the Citizenship Test immigrants must take and pass to gain their US Citizenship. There are such things as collectively shared responsibilities such as the one residing within Christianity: I'm my brother's keeper. To deny such responsibility but claim to be a Christian is to admit to being grossly hypocritical and without integrity.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 13 2020 0:15 utc | 150

@Posted by: Jen | Jun 13 2020 0:11 utc | 149

Nowadays, and probably for the past ~30 yrs in the greater Tokyo (Kanto Plain) region, high face mask usage is largely because of serious springtime hay-fever seasons, in large part due to high pollen sheds from widespread timber/conservation plantations surrounding the Kanto region, from Sugi (Cryptomeria japonica) and Hinoki (Chamaecyparis obtusa), dating back to plantings done following end of WW2.

If you ride around Tokyo toll-ways in springtime you will frequently see people driving , wearing masks in their cars with the windows rolled up.

Japanese have a lot of other cultural norms going in their favor to resist the spread of the Corona-chan: They don't get touchy-feely with greetings/partings, don't kiss/hug much, are super clean (onsen/ofuro most everyday) and take off shoes before entering homes.

Posted by: gm | Jun 13 2020 1:13 utc | 151

karlof1 @ 150, doesn't your example here show that we are all of us mixed bags when it comes to individual vs. collective? I'm pretty individualistic, but I wouldn't fare very well during this crisis if I was trying to cope with it on my own. All the Americans I know do their best to help others, (meaning me) and they do put me to shame for my own inability to reciprocate, but I'm just very grateful to them.

Maybe it's different in a city community, but a lot of this country is small town, and while the political persuasions and beliefs do vary, the basic humanity is pretty widespread even in cities. Hence the protests when something awful becomes evident.

Christianity also is thought of as a monotheistic religion, but at its heart is the Trinity, and community is fundamental to it.

Just some thoughts on your theme. I don't see the two in isolation from one another, basically.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 13 2020 1:35 utc | 152

Sorry, karlof1, my thoughts related to your 147, rather than 150, which I just read and see you make many of the same points.

And thanks to Down South @91 for the Davos article by William Engdahl. That's looking at a different kind of community, but don't you think that it is on the same superficial level as the original reset button Hillary Clinton handed to Putin back in the day? That went nowhere mighty fast. So those mighty plans from the Davos community look rather anachronistic to me; I'm hoping that ship has sailed. Interesting article though. I'm all for sustainability, but maybe we can be our individual selves in expressing our preferences for that.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 13 2020 1:52 utc | 153

I have a massive study that shows how effective masks can be. It's not a scientific experiment carried out under strict conditions though. I think it's what's called "Metadata" and it's very big, as it involves 1.4 billion people.

It's called "China". In China everybody started wearing a mask when they went out in public as soon as the emergency was declared in Wuhan on 22 Jan. They didn't have a State-enforced mass lockdown in China either - they had targeted lockdowns managed by local governments based on an assessment of local conditions. And while "social distancing" exists nominally, in practice nobody bothers much.

Per capita death rate in China (masks, no mass lockdown) 1:28,000
Per capita death rate in UK (mass lockdown; no masks) 1:1000

I'll go with that metadata, thanks, and wear a mask.

And will somebody please lend "poor moa" a couple of brain cells, so that (s)he can work out that the infection had been running in Wuhan for at least four weeks and probably longer before anybody knew it existed. You can't cure people who are already infected by wearing a mask. But you can stop them infecting other people.

Posted by: David Ferguson | Jun 13 2020 2:12 utc | 154

@poor moa | Jun 11 2020 20:47 utc | 13

"synthetic control city": total bullshit. So many arbitrary parameters you can get any result you like. Why not do a real comparison?

Did you notice that the synthetic city matched the Jena curve for the first few weeks? So there is a reasonable chance that the control city is a good representative of Germany.

Why not use a real city for comparison? Perhaps there is too much noise in the data from any one city. The synthesis is probably an attempt to average out the noise.


And: Japan had no "extensive testing and contact tracing" at all. In fact Japan had the LEAST testing of all industrial countries. No testing, no panic, no problems.

It's still early. Notice that Japan is thinking about cancelling the Olympics. If the Japanese authorities thought the coronavirus was defeated, why would they consider such a drastic action?


Wuhan is using way more masks than Japan (also due to air pollution). How did that stop the outbreak?? Not at all.

Chinese deaths from Covid-19: less than 5000, and has been nearly zero for weeks. US deaths: over 100,000. I would say that whatever China has been doing, it is working. And whatever the US has been doing or not doing is an epic fail. (Two Vietnam Wars' worth of deaths is not just a flu.)


MoA has been consistently wrong with every aspect of this pandemic. Even worse, it totally failed to recognize the huge political dimension.

b has NOT been "consistently wrong". His record is imperfect, but nobody can always be correct in a completely new and constantly evolving situation. Why do you demand perfection from b when you are so error-prone despite the great advantage of hindsight?

Posted by: Cyril | Jun 13 2020 3:41 utc | 155

@RSH,

you are correct, I don't read all your many, many comments, but go ahead and wear that mask if you think it protects you. I have no problem wearing a mask if required, but I don't delude myself into thinking the mask does anything substantive to keep me healthy. it might help others if I was ill, but a mask isn't going to stop me from getting infected.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 13 2020 4:44 utc | 156

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 12 2020 18:11 utc | 136

In Turkey, the government has been giving out masks to the population free for the past month or more. The main purpose is to protect others from you, as wearing a mask reduces the probability that you will infect someone else. Some municipalities in Istanbul actually delivered a box of masks to its households, every one (Uskudar comes to mind). The masks are not first quality, but are sufficient for one time use, and can be hand washed or saturated with Turkey's lemon cologne (80% alcohol) and possibly used again. They serve a limited function to go with the other precautions individuals can take.

And I agree that building up people's relative immunity through proper diets and exercise is also vital in the long run to limit the effects of the disease. I do not know that previous exposure to the other corona viruses helps in this way. I have not read anything about it.

AS for the social economic issues, I am against an irrational total lockdown of any economy. One might have engaged in this for a week or two at the beginning in order to evaluate the situation, but many businesses and industries could have remained open while taking sensible precautions. And those that could not, needed to have its workers and owners financially protected in some way. The worst thing about extended lockdowns is the harm done to society and those economically vulnerable.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 13 2020 6:07 utc | 157

It is not just wearing masks that matters, it is proper contact tracing and quarantine.
Self isolation within a family home as practiced in U.K. is a way continuing dissemination of virus in the community. That , combined with delayed community testing has lead to the current dire situation in U.K.

Posted by: Orage | Jun 13 2020 6:24 utc | 158

Posted by: Orage | Jun 13 2020 6:24 utc | 158

Yes, of course. That is for the health services to do. The Turkish government has been doing it for a couple months or more. They have a few thousand teams comprised of two health professionals that visit homes that may have someone exposed to Covid and test them, get their contacts over the past while and visit them as well to test. They also follow up on the tests for all family members in the next short while.

Apparently, this is an extension of Turkish tracking and testing for other communicable diseases like measles in the past. Hence, the Turkish health system seems to be prepared for such outbreaks of contagious illnesses. In additions it was quite quick to produce its own PPE and ventilators.

This is the problem with the thatcherite anti-society system in the UK. It sees nothing but the corporate profit accumulation for its oligarchs as a valid social activity.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 13 2020 7:57 utc | 159

for Noirette, check here
Cunnar, one month ago
fungus into virus?
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.29.069054v1#comment-4904218691

Posted by: mina | Jun 13 2020 10:05 utc | 160

My question about mask wearing is, for how long? It doesn't seem sustainable. Better common sense social distancing and hygiene then.

Posted by: Steve | Jun 13 2020 11:05 utc | 161

Posted by: Steve | Jun 13 2020 11:05 utc | 161

I suspect it would depend on local/national conditions concerning the virus and infection rates. Possibly, the virus will run its course similar to other corona viruses. Maybe it will take a little longer. Really, the ball is partly in the virus's court, so to speak, but of course our own approach to it may make a difference in how it acts as well.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 13 2020 11:37 utc | 162

dear MoA, I am amazed how you fell into the trap of the Covid Hoax. I have always admired your sharp and acute vision of events, and I don't understand that you bite into this huge lie: recycling a seasonal flu into a pandemic...
very disappointing...

Posted by: Bongocero | Jun 13 2020 13:06 utc | 163

Requiring mask weearing without handing out n95 or surgical masks on streetcorners for free is like the signs demanding people pick up poop from dogs without providing little plastic bags and a trash bin. Duh!

Posted by: Thom Prentice | Jun 13 2020 13:12 utc | 164

I am under the impression that the ppl advocating obligatory mask wearing are going out in a crowd maximum once a week.. But I may be wrong.

As to the Islamic veil, forget about it, in France it has not been mentioned at all and a scarf cannot replace a mask for which one has to pay (very different prices from one place to another! even for the same product). In Germany however, a scarf is fine instead of a surgical mask, so I guess the veil works out there.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 13 2020 13:45 utc | 165

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1191478.shtml

"According to the Beijing government’s press conference on Saturday, of the 517 samples taken at the Xinfadi Market, throat swabs from 45 individuals tested positive for the virus. Another person from a local food market in Beijing’s Haidian district also tested positive."

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Jun 13 2020 14:47 utc | 166

If the first strain, found in China late Dec and circulating much before that date in China, France, Italy, at least for the verified places, was moving very slowly, the second strain, found in Italy, the UK, and before that in the US, seems much more contagious. How feasible is it to 'help' a strain mutate?
3 new clusters in Pekin, a spike in all the countries who have rapatriated people from Europe and the US...

Posted by: Mina | Jun 13 2020 14:56 utc | 167

@ 163 bongocero quotes "...recycling a seasonal flu into a pandemic...very disappointing..."

except the severity of this suggests it is something more severe.... that is the part that has some of us more concerned... taking out young people, not to mention everyone else - i don't see it as a seasonal flu of the usual garden variety as you suggest.. i think b might look at it the same way - more grave here... how everyone responds to it is another matter...

Posted by: james | Jun 13 2020 18:20 utc | 168

juliania @152&3--

Thanks for your reply. Not too long after writing that I sat on my deck enjoying my Happy Hour beer and mused. I soon came up with what isn't actually a new conception, although I've never seen it articulated in this guise--Collectivist-Libertarian--which would appear to match what I once saw as Classical Conservatism, the sort my Maternal Grandparents practiced and espoused. I wouldn't confuse it with Gilbert & Sullivan's "Liberal-Conservative" mocking of late Victorian-Era British politicos, however. Consider how Hudson describes Jesus of Nazareth--a Radical-Conservative--as he attempts to reset his Collective's stability. IMO, hyper-individualism has gone way too far to where it's about to have the One declare War versus the Collective to gain revenge for the Collective Red Lining the One--or as it is in reality, a minority. Yet, the Collective must become aware of what's been done in its name--currently and by its forbearers--instead of being in total denial like Trump and his ilk.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 13 2020 22:52 utc | 169

Ghost Ship | Jun 11 2020 22:32 utc | 32

Gordon G. Chang - Wikipedia
Search domain en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_G._Changhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_G._Chang
Gordon Guthrie Chang (born 1951) is a Chinese American columnist, blogger, television pundit, author and lawyer. He is widely known for his book The Coming Collapse of China (2001), in which he claimed that the hidden nonperforming loans of the "Big Four" Chinese state banks would likely bring down China's financial system and its communist government.
'Nuff said!

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 14 2020 11:25 utc | 170

anonymous | Jun 11 2020 23:33 utc | 48

How does one claim a study to be false, then use the study in question to make arguments that rely on the veracity of said study?

In UR yesterday I read a very interesting piece by Hitler on effective propaganda. Reaading it I was struck by how exactly his advice is being followed by the MSM in its current smear campaign against China.
https://www.unz.com/freed/a-bicephalous-monoparty-ahd-the-four-pillars/#comment-3894777 Comment 29


Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 14 2020 11:40 utc | 171

Jen | Jun 12 2020 0:13 utc | 54

The issue is that compulsory mask-wearing for the general public might not have achieved better results than mask-wearing restricted to certain occupations or people who come into regular contact with high-risk groups. Social distancing and selective quarantining might have been enough. Compulsory mask-wearing for the general public might even have led to worse results if the masks that were available to the public did not meet the required safety standards or were worn improperly.

Covid-19 is a disease spread by droplets and aerosol. If you breath through a mask (of any sort) some of the droplets and virus particles (coming in and going out) will be trapped by the mask and not infect you or anyone else. How can this be a bad idea? What is clear is, that most western countries did not have enough and/or good enough masks even for their medical personnel. That was a killer.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 14 2020 11:54 utc | 172

VietnamVet | Jun 12 2020 1:01 utc | 57

The trolls, the unrest, the 116,029 dead Americans to date, Seattle’s Autonomous Zone, 40 million Americans out of work, and the bipartisan political inability to deal with anything indicates that the second American Civil War is approaching. The Western Empire has fallen. Anyone who thinks the old normal will return is delusional
.
You, presumably, are much closer to the events in the US than I, a Brit, am. I am interested that you take the "Liberated Area" in Seattle seriously. Doesn't a Civil war need some sort of organization? Is there any sign of such a thing appearing? Is it not most likely to be "supplied" by the FBI or some other spooky organization? I bear in mind the story that I heard way back, of the CPUSA branch that dissolved itself when its 21 members realized that they were all working for one government agency or another.


Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 14 2020 12:08 utc | 173

Jun 12 2020 11:37 utc | 96

"Maybe we could look into the HCW (health care workers) cases and determine how they got infected even wearing masks and other ppe"

The Chinese brought 42,000 medics into Hubei to help with the fight against covid-19 and lost none of them to disease. If you have the right stuff and you use it correctly it does protect. The problems at first, was people not having enough PPE and not knowing exactly how to put it on and (more tricky) how to take it of after it had been infected.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 14 2020 16:29 utc | 174

R Rose | Jun 12 2020 11:37 utc | 96

Maybe b could address the fact, the reality, that the Canadian military entered a number of LTC homes in Canada, in full protective gear and still became infected with Covid?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pandemic-covid-coronavirus-canadian-forces-long-term-care-1.5578948

Clearly their masks failed. And all the PPE failed.


It does not prove that the PPE failed, it could be that they were infected before they put it on, or after they took it off. Maybe it failed. That they got infected proves nothing about it. Could even be that they got infected taking the infected PPE off. (Easily done! Or so I have read.)

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 14 2020 16:43 utc | 175

The mask is not to protect you, it is to protect other people you come in contact with. That's why all those "essential workers" will appreciate it if you wear one so as to protect them from whatever you might have. If you want to protect yourself, stay put as much as possible, wherever you live, that limits your exposure. This has all been true from the beginning of this mess.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 14 2020 17:28 utc | 176

Michael Kent | Jun 12 2020 14:34 utc | 124

The cloth mask used by most everyone, whether homemade or store bought in designer colors, is worthless. The tightest weave has pores that are 80 microns in diameter, about the size of a human hair. The Coronavirus is .125 in diameter - 640 times smaller. To illustrate, it’s the same as a ping pong passing through a hoop 80 feet in diameter.

Not as useless as you think. The usual mode of transmission is in droplets, aerosol of virus particles is debatable and as far as I know unproven. A droplet colliding with a fibre would quite likely stick to it and may be the same sort of size as the holes in the cloth.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 14 2020 19:07 utc | 177

Piotr Berman | Jun 12 2020 18:11 utc | 136

You could give masks to each American for less than a billion, reducing economic losses in trillions.
I read the other day, that in fact China had donated (not sold) 3 billion masks to the USA. What sort of mask I do not remember.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 14 2020 19:21 utc | 178

Caliman | Jun 12 2020 22:06 utc | 145

Of course, along with the benefits, there may be a few hiccups like socialist disasters, famines, wars, great leaps backward, etc. But I'm sure collectivism will always be for the best for humanity.

There is quite a high price for individualism. According to latest figures:("new" = yesterday's.)
USA: 2,032,524 infections, 22,133 new infections, 114,466 deaths, 709 new deaths.
China: 84,729 infections, 58 new infections, 4,645 deaths, 0 new deaths.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 14 2020 19:46 utc | 179

What we know so far about the killing of Rayshard Brooks

GBI [Georgia Bureau of Investigations] ... initially reported that Brooks was shot in the struggle over the Taser.

However, cellphone video circulating widely on social media, allegedly from the scene, appears to show a struggle between Brooks and police, the Taser deployment, and Brooks running away as an officer deploys a Taser on him. Then, gunshots are heard, and Brooks is seen on the ground.

[Note: We might not have known what really happened if not for the cell phone video from bystanders at the scene.]

. . .

[The attorney for Rayshard Brooks' family] ... said that witnesses claimed officers “put on plastic gloves and picked up their shell casings after they killed [Brooks] before rending aid.” And in watching video of the incident, he said the legal team “counted 2 minutes and 16 seconds before [officers] even checked [Brooks’s] pulse.” He also said he was told by witnesses some details that contradict the GBI’s official statement. He said some witnesses said there was no sobriety test administered.


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 14 2020 20:00 utc | 180

Mina | Jun 12 2020 11:16 utc | 93

Thailand has largely a moist atmosphere (they couldn't grow rice otherwise) and Asia has largely speaking higher population density than many other places on earth. It does make sense to wear masks when these two conditions exist.

China grows sea-rice on Chinghai Tibet plateau.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-06/09/c_139126283.htm

Posted by: foolisholdman | Jun 15 2020 8:54 utc | 181

The problem is - of course - the "synthetic control city", the number and reliability of testing and the error rate in positive testing.

Thuringia had hardly any corona cases. Close-by Erfurt had 139 positively tested cases all in all. Jena had 161 positively tested cases.

I would say the science of this study is a joke.

This here is valid for surgical masks - and I am pretty sure Jena kids wore some cotton or similar material.

Torturing school kids with masks and distancing is inhumane, they are in no danger to catch the disease themselves.

>>> A surgical mask is a disposable medical device that can be bought in pharmacy and that protects against infectious agents transmitted by “droplets.” These droplets can be droplets of saliva or secretions from the upper respiratory tract when the wearer exhales. .... But a surgical mask does not protect against “airborne” infectious agents so it will not prevent the wearer from being potentially contaminated by a virus such as the Coronavirus.

The masks are useless and unhealthy as they are mostly used the wrong way and not washed regularly.

Corona Virus is simply not very contagious. Heinsberg study evaluated a chance of 15 percent of catching the virus from a household member.

As for Japanese people, by the way, there are a lot of reasons and occasions why Japanese people wear masks .

And you wonder if it is really healthy

Somewhere between a quarter and a fifth of Japanese people suffer from hay fever, compared to just 8% in the USA. Kafunsho (花粉症, hayfever) is something of a national illness, and accordingly many people wear masks in spring and summer to protect themselves from pesky pollen.

As you’ll see below, hay fever is actually has an important place in the history of masks in Japan — the first disposable masks were specifically designed to keep pollen away.

This use is so widespread that during the Covid-19 pandemic some people started wearing special badges (pictures) to show that they were trying to protect themselves from pollen, rather than coronavirus.

The Hygiene Hypothethis

The initial application of the hygiene hypothesis for autoimmune diseases proposed in the early 2000s has been confirmed and consolidated by a wealth of published data in both animal models and human autoimmune conditions. ...


Pathogenic bacteria, viruses and parasites are often endowed with strong protective effects on autoimmunity even when infection occurs late after birth.

Gut commensal bacteria may also have a protective role in autoimmunity when administered early in life.

Pathogens, parasites and commensals essentially act by stimulating immune regulatory pathways, implicating the innate and the adaptive immune system. Importantly, the effect is seen with both living organisms and their derivatives or purified extracts.

There is no simple solution to human health.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 15 2020 11:31 utc | 182

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