Boris Johnson's Government Hides Covid-19 Data That Is Needed To Control New Local Outbreaks
Britain has had quite a problem with the Covid-19 epidemic. The coronavirus travails of Boris Johnson did not help. The countrywide lockdown came too late and had therefore stay on longer than elsewhere. In April 2020 monthly gross domestic product (GDP) fell by 20.4%. So far England and Wales have had some 50,000 death from the coronavirus. Scotland registered some 2,500 death and North Ireland some 550.
After the long lockdown the number of death per day has normalized. The data from the Office for National Statistics shows that no more excess death occur.
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That is good news but there are still very bad surprises.
The British government is still hiding information on Covid-19 testing results. It is not even sure how large the current reproduction rate of the epidemic is. This at a time when people, businesses and local administrations need such data as guidance on how much they have to limit their contacts to keep the epidemic under control.
Yesterday the British Health Secretary Matt Hancock announced that the city and metro area of Leicester with some 840,000 inhabitants had to go back under lockdown.
The people in Leicester had no idea that such an order was coming. They had anticipated to go back to the pubs which were supposed to reopen on July 4. The announcement came as a surprise for even the city's mayor:
The mayor of Leicester, Sir Peter Soulsby, has told a press conference he was "a little surprised" when the local lockdown was suggested by government because officials hadn't been given any data to suggest there were any "particular issues" in the city at that point.He said he had a virtual meeting with the secretary of state the following day, when he pushed for the figures that showed coronavirus cases had spiked in the city.
Sir Peter said it took "quite some time to get any decent data through to us" and it didn't arrive until a week later.
The mayor said his colleagues are still working through the "mountain" of data they have now received to map it and see where in the community the virus is still active and might be spreading.
The mayor and the people of Leicester had looked at the government's coronavirus page and the publicly available data of daily new cases in their region. That data showed sinking numbers.
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But as the Financial Times' John Burn-Murdoch just pointed out that data is very incomplete. It includes only those cases which were tested in hospitals.
At the onset of the epidemic testing was rather rare and only done in hospitals when new patients came in. At that time that data was all that was available. But now there is public testing available and the greatest number of new cases are coming from there.
A different British government website explains that the total count consists of categories:
Breakdown of testing by testing strategy ‘pillars’
- Pillar 1: swab testing in Public Health England (PHE) labs and NHS hospitals for those with a clinical need, and health and care workers
- Pillar 2: swab testing for the wider population, as set out in government guidance
- Pillar 3: serology testing to show if people have antibodies from having had COVID-19
- ...
The data on the official coronavirus website the British government promoted only show the new daily cases number of Pillar 1, the hospital testing. That fact is not even mentioned on the overview page that most people look at.
The Financial Times data group has now constructed the real picture (paywalled) from data they have received from a different source. This is the real data from Leicester for all new cases.
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Almost all of them are from Pillar 2, the public testing outside of hospitals. Nobody in Leicester knew that the numbers of new cases in their city had spiked over the last two weeks. Now nothing and nobody is prepared for a new local lockdown. The police do not know how to manage it.
Why isn't that data publicized?
Not only is the data flow completely insufficient but the testing situation in Britain is also still bad:
The mayor of Leicester has said officials struggled to persuade testing staff to stick around despite a major coronavirus outbreak in the city.Sir Peter Soulsby said testing had been "pretty patchy" and "not sufficiently systematic" to allow local public health experts to get a proper picture of the outbreak, which has prompted the first localised lockdown in England.
Sir Peter, a former Labour MP, claimed officials had spent time trying to persuade testing staff to stay in Leicester rather than "decamp to go and measure elsewhere".
...
Sir Peter said testing was finally ramping up in Leicester but expressed concern that local leaders had been slow to receive information from government.
That Boris Johnson's government is unwilling to hand local new cases data to the local governments is only one of its dozens of major screw-ups during the pandemic.
Informing the public as detailed as possible is the very first and most important point in any epidemic preparation plan. The people can not help to fight the epidemic if they have no information about its current extent.
Looking from the outside its hard to understand how the people and the media in the United Kingdom let their government get away with these and the many other willful mistakes it has made during the last months.
Posted by b on June 30, 2020 at 16:35 UTC | Permalink
I told my wife in late January that you're about to witness incompetence and deceit on a grand scale.
No matter which side you fall on you'll find evidence in support.
Posted by: lil nano | Jun 30 2020 16:52 utc | 2
There is also a Firefox extension on Github, just search for "paywall firefox extension github".
For all sites where it is technically possible, it automatically unblocks the content.
Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr. | Jun 30 2020 17:04 utc | 3
the difference vs Scotland is telling, as health policy is controlled at the subnational level.
Posted by: ptb | Jun 30 2020 17:08 utc | 4
The fact is that the new tory government is composed entirely of extreme right-wingers whose sole qualification for office is being a 'Brexit' enthusiast. The main consequence of this is that most of them are barely able to tie their own shoelaces, much less constitute a functioning government. There are already mutterings in the tory party that Johnston (a proven and shameless public liar over most of his life) is unable to perform even as a credible 'speak-your-weight' machine in Parliament, and may well be on the road to replacement by some more competent puppet.
Posted by: Jams O;Donnell | Jun 30 2020 17:14 utc | 5
What are the chances that this is just the result of increased testing, and really proves that the virus is much more common than thought and death rates much lower.
Probably IMO
Posted by: Michael Droy | Jun 30 2020 17:36 utc | 6
When the French people opted to let Melenchon out of the second round of the presidential elections in favor of Le Pen, I said that the French people would then have to choose which to lose first: their flesh or their spirit. When Macron won, I said they opted to sacrifice their flesh first.
The Anglo-Saxons (British and Americans) seem to have chosen the reverse path. First, they lost their spirit (woke wars; idiocracy): whatever dignity the "white man" had or thought he had was gone.
But now, with the pandemic, it's time for them to also lose their flesh, as the GDPs of the UK and the USA are also crumbling faster than 2008, and unemployment is (finally) rising.
I wonder when will be Le Pen's time to be president of France at this pace...
As to the "Opposition" it too "is composed entirely of extreme right-wingers whose sole qualification for office is NOT being a 'Brexit' enthusiast."
So the UK is caught between the devil of Blairism and the Deep Blue Sea of Tories.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 30 2020 17:38 utc | 8
uncle tungsten nailed it with their comment in the "A mask is not a ..." thread
"
The larger the infection pool, the greater the risk of this becoming a serious global killer. That is why the UK & USA are incredibly stupid - they enlarge the mutation pool. A nation size petri dish - sheesh!
"
Some would call it planned genocide but I doubt it will ever get prosecuted as such.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 30 2020 17:53 utc | 9
With UK/EU travel and more from tomorrow on (including those who will transit by the UK) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53222356
we can expect much more to come.
Posted by: Mina | Jun 30 2020 18:04 utc | 10
On the 2.06.2020 the N.H.S published data concerning the Covid-19 fatalities. It stated that : 5% of them were solely from Covid-19 which at the time amounted to approximately 1300 people of those in the ages 0-19, 3 died, 20-39, 32 died, 40-59, 255 died and the rest were over 60 with the largest grouping over 80.
Therefore, 95% died from 2 or more primary serious illnesses which included cancer, heart disease, dementia, Parkinson’s etc. Again, the largest grouping was between 60+ with the majority being over 80. The mortality rate in the U.K. from 1991- 2019 ranged from 0.2-0.6%. At the moment, the fatalities rate is approximately 0.5%+ which means although it’s higher than last year over the long term it is not significantly higher.
Unfortunately, because of the totally unnecessary lockdown, which has contracted the economy by 25% and thrown millions of people out of work, the official unemployment number is about 3,000,000, and many small and medium sized businesses have gone bankrupt.
However, the stock market, the City of London, the Banks and very wealthy investors have done very nicely so far approximately £645,000,000,000 via QE has been pumped into it. Cui Bono from Covid -19, the answer is pretty obvious!
Posted by: Brianborou | Jun 30 2020 18:17 utc | 11
ON BARCELONA WASTE WATER AND A CONSPIRACY THEORY
I read the preprint on the Barcelona waste water study.
Sentinel surveillance of SARS-CoV-2 in wastewater anticipates the occurrence of COVID-19 casesSARS-CoV-2 was detected in Barcelona sewage long before the declaration of the first COVID-19 case, indicating that the infection was present in the population before the first imported case was reported.
In order to elucidate the evolution of COVID-19 in Barcelona, 24-h composite raw sewage samples from two large wastewater treatment plants were weekly analyzed for the presence of SARS-CoV-2 from April 13, in the peak of the epidemics, to May 25. In addition, for WWTP2, frozen archival samples from 2018 (January-March), 2019 (January, March, September-December) and 2020 (January-March) were also assayed.
Most COVID-19 cases show mild influenza-like symptoms and it has been suggested that some uncharacterized influenza cases may have masked COVID-19 cases in the 2019-2020 season. This possibility prompted us to analyze some archival WWTP samples from January 2018 to December 2019 (Figure 2). All samples came out to be negative for the presence of SARS-CoV-2 genomes with the exception of March 12, 2019, in which both IP2 and IP4 target assays were positive. This striking finding indicates circulation of the virus in Barcelona long before the report of any COVID-19 case worldwide.
There were only 9 frozen waste water samples available. The March 2019 sample is the only one that corresponds to the 2018-2019 flu season.
All samples were tested with five different probes targeting five different fragments of the SARS-CoV-2 genome. Diagnostic tests usually target only two or three gene sequences. The five probes used were the three (IP2, IP4, E) included in the French test (Institut Pasteur) and the two (N1, N2) included in the American test (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention).
When testing fresh samples drawn directly from sewers in May 2020, no single sample was positive for more than four probes. None of tests could detect the presence of the E gene. When testing mixed water from the waste water treatment plants the different probes gave different results. The IP2 and IP4 gene fragments were most likely to be present.
...the conspiracy theory
I have previously voiced a suspicion that the CDC test is intentionally flawed. It is made to differentiate between the Wuhan strain of COVID-19 and any COVID strains in circulation before the Wuhan outbreak. This would explain why it took so long to produce and why testing was initially restricted.
If so, the Barcelona study is consistent with what one would see if COVID-19 had been circulation in Barcelona in the winter of 2019. The frozen sample from March 12, 2019 tested positive IP2 and IP4 gene fragments. The E gene has shown to be elusive in waste water tests. If the CDC test cannot detect pre-Wuhan nucleoprotein N, then the negative results are as expected.
More proof is needed. What the scientific community now wants is the sequencing of the genetic material in the March 12, 2019 sample. It is not necessary to produce a complete viral genome. What is needed is enough of the genome to place it into the phylogenetic tree. The tests may have destroyed the whole sample, making sequencing impossible. There should however be two test tubes with genetic material 107 and 108 base pairs long. Of these base pairs 58 and 56 come from the probes and primers used in the PT-PCR test. The remaining 101 base pairs came from the waste water time machine.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 30 2020 18:22 utc | 12
There is a good reason for all of this. What seems like incompetence is really a deliberate act to perpetuate and stonewall until this virus has spread completely in our societies. And then, the real agenda will rear its ugly head.
The article below is a compelling piece of investigative work and cannot be brushed aside as a crazy theory.
https://www.sott.net/article/437083-Compelling-Evidence-That-SARS-CoV-2-Was-Man-Made
Posted by: Alpi | Jun 30 2020 18:40 utc | 14
Meanwhile, Bleak City, aka Melbourne Australia has also reintroduced another lockdown on 36 suburbs containing over 300,000 people. It seems the mainly migrant and low paid security guards at the designated quarantine hotels were to blame for spreading the virus to their large extended families and then to the community. Now the army and prison services are designated guards and incoming overseas airline flights are banned. Even some other states are refusing to allow visitors from Victoria entry. Of course Australia' obsequious politicians couldn't resist taking the US State Department phone calls echoing and rebroadcasting Trump's dreams to cancel the US debt to China which initiated a new trade war with China, Australia's biggest customer. Only Australia and Germany have a favourable balance of trade with China. Australia can forget that now.
IMO the 2017 book "In the Shadows of the American Century of the American Century, The Rise and Decline of US Global Power' by Alfred W McCoy is essential reading in explaining current geopolitics and US thinking regarding China. It seems O'bomber understood the situation but Trump and his handlers for various reasons were latecomers to understanding the situation. They were focused on making the Middle East safe for Zionist expansionism and barbarism.
It is long past time to clean out the stables in Australia, the US and the UK, AKA the Anglo Zionist Captive Nations. The parasite always destroys the host.
Posted by: Paul | Jun 30 2020 19:07 utc | 15
Oh great. Just what we need. Dueling Pandemics. This is the kind of stuff that makes Fauci giddy. It gives him a chubby.
Dr. Anthony Fauci Says New Virus In China Has Traits Of 2009 Swine Flu And 1918 Pandemic Flu
Posted by: 450.org | Jun 30 2020 19:48 utc | 16
@ Brianborou | Jun 30 2020 18:17 utc | 11 who wrote
"
Unfortunately, because of the totally unnecessary lockdown, which has contracted the economy by 25% and thrown millions of people out of work, the official unemployment number is about 3,000,000, and many small and medium sized businesses have gone bankrupt.
However, the stock market, the City of London, the Banks and very wealthy investors have done very nicely so far approximately £645,000,000,000 via QE has been pumped into it. Cui Bono from Covid -19, the answer is pretty obvious!
"
Just reported is that the S&P500 (banking index) has had the best Q2 since 1957.
I can't hear the swamp draining over the sound of the money printing presses going full bore.
And what is happening is all just an accident that has the leadership doing the best they can............/snark
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 30 2020 20:19 utc | 17
@vk 7
they just threw François Fillon, Macron's political rival on the "center-right" in jail. link (guardian). Someone else will have to explain what that means.
Posted by: ptb | Jun 30 2020 20:21 utc | 18
Alpi #14
Thank you for that link. You do realise that you have ruined vk's day. It was an interesting but long winded story yet when it finally arrived at the subject it assembled a wide source of evidence.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 30 2020 20:44 utc | 19
These aren't "...major screw-ups...".
This disaster is a purposeful attempt to rapidly generate herd immunity with no available vaccine, no matter the consequences and costs in damaged lives. Quite an experiment!
Purposely hiding/corrupting information about COVID, subverting containment efforts, misleading civilians and actively promoting the spread of COVID is a crime against humanity - end of discussion. The governments of the US, UK and Brazil are committing crimes against humanity.
Another example to add to b's above descriptions, is ICU data being removed in TX:
The US has a history of suppressing inconvenient news about diseases; pellagra for example.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4530670/
By next week death rates in the US will be climbing, possibly precipitously, although initially the younger cohort and improved treatments may delay and blunt a steep climb. Younger people are more likely to be going back to work, socializing and protesting. Eventually they will spread the disease to older relatives and acquaintances.
I'm speculating that news coming through official channels about widespread cases of long term health effects due to COVID, including organ and neurological damage, is also being suppressed.
Fauci in a Senate hearing today appeared to be painting a dire picture and is now predicting 100K daily new cases in the US if current trends are not reversed. While Fauci is trying to spur some action to curb such a catastrophe, I suspect some US leaders are anxious to reach this level or higher quickly so we can just get it all over with.
I'm anticipating further COVID-related data corruption and official malfeasance at a state and federal level. I would not be surprised to see attempts to altogether shutdown or discredit/subvert the information being made publicly available at sites like Worldometers and Johns Hopkins, etc.
Meanwhile the stock market, confident that it will continue to be bailed out by taxpayers, continues to defy reality. Additionally the easing of Volcker Rule restriction are boosting bank stocks:
======================
As disastrous poll data piles up, the tide against the idiot-in-chief appears to be turning and he may be forced to remove himself from the election campaign. The amount of willful damage that could be done by an outgoing, raging and stupid maniac between now and January 2021 is incredible to imagine.
The UK is falling in line with the US re: Russian bounties:
Posted by: snow_watcher | Jun 30 2020 20:54 utc | 20
psychohistorian #9
Thank you. I was initially responding to the infected Mink story where humans gave coronavirus to minks who promptly had a proportion fall ill coughing a pneumona-ing and kindly passed it back to humans.
Mammals you see.
Now cats do carry coronavirus too so keep watch on veterinary data. Those New Zealanders might reconsider their fondness for sheep too. I will be avoiding breathing on horses. So it goes.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 30 2020 20:55 utc | 21
@ Posted by: Alpi | Jun 30 2020 18:40 utc | 14
Nah, your government just sucks. The sooner you accept it, the sooner you'll recover.
It is worth remembering that Mr. Trump's principal business expertise has been bankruptsy. People refer to him as an idiot, but he has actually mastered the essential skills in his former líne of work (NYC real estate): lying, not paying his bills, reniging on contracts, falsifying documentos, cheating, stealing, etc. He has greatly improved the quality of "muscle" that his business práctices require. We Will see how far this Will get him - the proverbial paper Tiger.
Posted by: C | Jun 30 2020 21:52 utc | 23
@ vk 21
“Assumption is the mother of all f**k ups....”
Trolling is unbecoming. Either try to contribute to the discussion or just read and stay silent. I have no patience for armchair crusaders.
Posted by: Alpi | Jun 30 2020 22:07 utc | 24
@ uncle tungsten 19
I agree. It was bit long winded but in the context, it worked and kept my attention. I know it was arriving at some revelations not known before. Anyway, I thought it was worth posting.
As for vk, every blog has one. I replied to him despite my policy of ignoring trolls.
Posted by: Alpi | Jun 30 2020 22:11 utc | 25
@9
'The larger the infection pool, the greater the risk of this becoming a serious global killer. That is why the UK & USA are incredibly stupid - they enlarge the mutation pool. A nation size petri dish - sheesh!'
--------------
Covid19 isnt a serious global killer
cancer is a serious global killer
Posted by: brian | Jun 30 2020 22:19 utc | 26
A tale of two drugs
Remdesivir Vs hydroxychloroquine
https://aapsonline.org/a-tale-of-two-drugs-money-vs-medical-wisdom/
Posted by: Brian | Jun 30 2020 22:25 utc | 27
Brian @Jun30 22:25 #26
I wrote about Remdesivir vs hydroxychloroquine at my website also. I called it government-assisted profiteering (see link at my handle)
The anti-HCQ effort is very clear.
I just posted a comment at the Week in Review / Open Thread about HCQ also. TPTB constantly study HCQ in ways that ensure failure.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 30 2020 22:43 utc | 28
@ Posted by: Alpi | Jun 30 2020 22:07 utc | 23
You just called out a conspiracy theory which states western governments are genociding its own people and I'm the troll?
The source you linked here is completely fake news. Absolute eschatological horseshit that's not worth even the electricity used to light the screen of the monitor it is showed into.
population control in response to pandemic?
I still say, for answers to the questions raised yesterday as to how and why the virus spreads at random, but nearly always in a spot which accelerates/deaccelerates infection rate should be given much more thought by all of us.
The publication of the article "Remote Activation of cellular Signaling. Electric Fields stimulate genetically modified pancreatic B cells to secrete insulin in mice. Vol 368, issue 6494 of science page 963." raises the question is someone using communication links to drive cell and viron metabolism?
Posted by: snake | Jun 30 2020 23:05 utc | 30
personally i think this troll label gets bandied around too easily and is often unfair to the poster who it gets tossed at.. vk offers up a lot of insights..
if someone doesn't like what someone has to say - then just skip over them and find something else to comment on that's positive.. thanks..
Posted by: james | Jun 30 2020 23:19 utc | 31
The 1980’s neo-classical capitalism restoration worked wonderfully for the wealthy. To get even richer, Western oligarchs gutted democracy to end taxes and regulation. Governmental leadership in the USA, UK, and Sweden are intentionally incompetent. There are four existential crises at play across the world right now; the restart of the Cold War with Russia and China, the coronavirus pandemic, the greater depression, and climate change. The fifth, the loss of consent of the governed is occurring across the West. Washington DC and Brussels are exposed. They are useless.
The Western Empire has fallen. Americans cannot fly to Europe for the foreseeable future. Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Boris Johnson, and Stefan Löfven are flapping around in the bottom of the boat. Out of kindness, the people must reach down and throw them back into the water.
Posted by: VietnamVet | Jun 30 2020 23:42 utc | 32
@ Posted by: snake | Jun 30 2020 23:05 utc | 29
I imagine it must be tough, if you're from a First World country, to come to terms that your own country (and your civilization) is declining. I understand that.
That problem is when the denial begins to transmute into bellicose narratives directed to destroying the dreams and hopes of the regions of the Third World that are ascending against all odds (i.e. China).
I'm sorry to tell you, but the ravage of the pandemic in the West is not fruit of a genocidal project by your elites. It's just incompetence and inability.
@ james 30
I wonder if you read vk’s comment @21. vk assumes that he knows where I am from, who I am and what my views are. And he proceeds to lecture about a government with an all-knowing tone. Then, he digs the hole deeper for himself with his following comment. Those are the hallmarks of the aforementioned label.
If vk wants to engage in an intellectual discussion, fine. There is no need To provoke a response by spreading venom and being derogatory. Especially when we happen to be on the same page, I think.
That comment deserves that response and I am afraid you defending vk is futile.
Posted by: Alpi | Jul 1 2020 0:26 utc | 34
Its mostly BS.
Unless it gets you or family member.
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2020/june/29/the-media-is-lying-about-the-second-wave/
I believe IFR is running around 0.04% currently.
Posted by: jared | Jul 1 2020 0:27 utc | 35
Posted by: brian | Jun 30 2020 22:19 utc | 25 Covid19 isnt a serious global killer cancer is a serious global killer
Cancer will kill you in a year. COVID-19 will kill you in a month.
Cancer has in many cases a successful treatment. COVID-19 has no (proven) successful treatment other than letting the patient's immune system handle it.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 1 2020 0:57 utc | 36
Posted by: brian | Jun 30 2020 22:19 utc | 25 Covid19 isnt a serious global killer cancer is a serious global killer
Cancer will kill you in a year. COVID-19 will kill you in a month.
Cancer has in many cases a successful treatment. COVID-19 has no (proven) successful treatment other than letting the patient's immune system handle it.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 1 2020 0:57 utc | 37
Sorry, fumble-fingered that post somehow...
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 1 2020 0:58 utc | 38
These aren't "...major screw-ups...".
This disaster is a purposeful attempt to rapidly generate herd immunity with no available vaccine, no matter the consequences and costs in damaged lives. Quite an experiment!
Purposely hiding/corrupting information about COVID, subverting containment efforts, misleading civilians and actively promoting the spread of COVID is a crime against humanity - end of discussion. The governments of the US, UK and Brazil are committing crimes against humanity.
Another example to add to b's above descriptions, is ICU data being removed in TX:
The US has a history of suppressing inconvenient news about diseases; pellagra for example.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4530670/
By next week death rates in the US will be climbing, possibly precipitously, although initially the younger cohort and improved treatments may delay and blunt a steep climb. Younger people are more likely to be going back to work, socializing and protesting. Eventually they will spread the disease to older relatives and acquaintances.
I'm speculating that news coming through official channels about widespread cases of long term health effects due to COVID, including organ and neurological damage, is also being suppressed.
Fauci in a Senate hearing today appeared to be painting a dire picture and is now predicting 100K daily new cases in the US if current trends are not reversed. While Fauci is trying to spur some action to curb such a catastrophe, I suspect some US leaders are anxious to reach this level or higher quickly so we can just get it all over with.
I'm anticipating further COVID-related data corruption and official malfeasance at a state and federal level. I would not be surprised to see attempts to altogether shutdown or discredit/subvert the information being made publicly available at sites like Worldometers and Johns Hopkins, etc.
Meanwhile the stock market, confident that it will continue to be bailed out by taxpayers, continues to defy reality. Additionally the easing of Volcker Rule restriction are boosting bank stocks:
======================
As disastrous poll data piles up, the tide against the idiot-in-chief appears to be turning and he may be forced to remove himself from the election campaign. The amount of willful damage that could be done by an outgoing raging and stupid maniac between now and January 2021 is incredible to imagine.
The UK is falling in line with the US re: Russian bounties:
Posted by: snow_watcher | Jul 1 2020 1:02 utc | 39
CDC says U.S. has ‘way too much virus’ to control pandemic as cases surge across country
“This is really the beginning,” Schuchat said of the U.S.’s recent surge in new cases. “I think there was a lot of wishful thinking around the country that, hey it’s summer. Everything’s going to be fine. We’re over this and we are not even beginning to be over this. There are a lot of worrisome factors about the last week or so.”
b was right in his earlier thread. The US has given up on trying to control the pandemic. We're going to see a half million dead before this is over, if not more. It may take a year or more to reach that number, but I expect it.
And the morons will still be saying "it's just the flu..."
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 1 2020 1:06 utc | 40
Alpi @ 14:
Ha, I made the connection between Greenspring Senior Living Community and Fort Detrick military base in the comments forum attached to an earlier MoA post (where B referred to that aged care facility having been hit by a wave of severe pneumonia attacks in its residents) by rhetorically asking how far apart they were. The MoA post had not said where the aged care place was but I followed a link to the original WaPo article and discovered the author specialised in writing articles on issues in Maryland and Virginia states. A few people replied they were 50 miles apart before my comment disappeared into the ether (but not before commenters at other blogs noticed my comment).
Posted by: Jen | Jul 1 2020 1:11 utc | 41
This news varies between "good" and "ehhh"...
More People Are Getting Infected With Covid-19, but Fewer Ventilators Are Needed. Why?
Five possible explanations, with lots of unknowns and caveats
The most likely explanation is the one I favor - it's getting around that early intubation is *not* a good treatment. The Front-Line COVID-19 Critical Care Working Group has been flogging that in concert with a number of doctors for the last couple months. High-flow oxygen via cannula seems to be as effective or more so than intubation without the risks.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 1 2020 1:14 utc | 42
The Economy Cannot Be More Important Than People’s Lives
Stop pretending that reopening is about mental health
All around the world (Singapore, Vietnam, New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong, China, Germany, Italy, Czech Republic, Greece) have shown a simple thing — manage the pandemic, and you can get back to near normal.As Trump waits for the stock market to believe him that the virus has been defeated here too, he and Mike Pence find new ways to complain about the “cost” of the treatment being worse than the cure...
Taking a shortcut doesn’t work with a virus. But if you’re unwilling to do the work to make people safe, you have to argue that the price of that safety is too high.
Too high a price to save old people. Too high for the Black and Brown community. Too high for people with chronic conditions. Too high for kids in detention. Too high when a stock market won’t help a president catch a reelection break.
Got that right. Trump and his supporters - including the morons here who are too scared to reveal that they are his supporters - will sacrifice anyone and everyone as long as he gets one more vote than Biden in November.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 1 2020 1:19 utc | 43
Checkmate, anti-zionists conspiracy theorists:
Jewish deaths in UK more than double amid pandemic, data shows
If there's a Jewish plan to dominate the world, they certainly didn't account for this pandemic. Alt-righters and paleoconservatives must be scratching their heads right now. I think they'll just tell this fake news.
@ the "genocide" conspiracy theorists
Your argument doesn't make any sense for one simple fact: there's no way Trump and Johnson to be, at the same time, allies and enemies of the Deep State. Either they're being guided by the Deep State or they're not. That paradox is valid because neither are doctors/scientists, so there's no way both politicians have expert knowledge about this virus or about proper healthcare policy.
In this case, and facing all the evidence available, Occam's Razor holds firm: the simplest explanation is that the Western nations are in good ol' decline. Poorer, dumber, more aggressive, more humiliated, less capable.
Only a nuclear war can save Western primacy over the world right now.
@ 34 alpi... no, i wasn't following the conversation, but just making a general statement on that... funny enough regarding your link @14 which jen comments on @ 41 - i do recall jen talking about this a month or two back and being one of the ones who responded and discussed the distance between ft detrick and the senior home hit with the sickness... i don't know what vk is up to saying with he said to you.. it is confusing.. maybe just ignore him.. as for the connection with ft detrick and man made sars- covid, i can't rule it out..
Posted by: james | Jul 1 2020 2:51 utc | 45
I feel I have to say at this point that as much as I respect this blog and will continue to visit, I think MOA is playing into the pandemic hysteria in an incomprehensible way. I have read so much contradictory "science" on matters relating to the "virus" and the efficacy or uselessness of masks of all types that I find myself forced to rely on the evidence of my own eyes and ears. Four months into the semi-lockdown I have yet to know anyone who has tested positive for COVID-19 or know anyone who knows anyone who has tested positive for COVID-19 and my work and social circle is extensive and includes old people. I have continued to go to work and visit the grocery store (without a mask) and feel the same as always. The response of governments - taken all together - does not make any sense to me at all. As positive test counts fall, the push for masks increases. When the pandemic started, they were telling us not to wear masks. WTF? The Mainstream Media was wailing about COVID-19 months before the WHO declared a pandemic. If that isn't a canary telling you something is wrong in the coal mine, I don't know what is.
Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 1 2020 4:04 utc | 46
This tweet sums up the situation in Old Blighty
Karl Sharro @KarlreMarks
· May 26
The British are finally experiencing what's it like to have the British rule your country
Posted by: Tom | Jul 1 2020 4:05 utc | 47
Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 1 2020 4:04 utc | 48 Four months into the semi-lockdown I have yet to know anyone who has tested positive for COVID-19 or know anyone who knows anyone who has tested positive for COVID-19
In science, this is called "anecdotal" - i.e., worthless - evidence.
How many million cases worldwide, and you're "relying on your own eyes"...
This is the epitome of *stupid*.
And yes, for anyone that stupid, I don't give a rat's ass if you're offended by that.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 1 2020 4:24 utc | 48
Covid 19 deaths - Australia (01/07/2020) - 104
Ages:-
0-39 : 0
40-49 : 1
50-59 : 2
60-69 : 13
70-79 : 31
80-89 : 37
90+ : 20
No mandatory mask wearing - almost no one wearing a mask - yet Australia is promoted as a success story.
No mandatory mask wearing in New Zealand, yet that country is promoted as a success story.
I don't know anyone who has tested positive for Covid 19 or know anyone who knows anyone who has tested positive.
I have been working throughout the lockdown in a hot, humid & very noisy environment, coming into close contact with 60+ people a week with zero social distancing.
Posted by: ted01 | Jul 1 2020 4:38 utc | 49
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 1 2020 4:24 utc | 50
"In science, this is called "anecdotal" - i.e., worthless - evidence."
Since "science" can't figure it out conclusively, I am left to what I can personally verify.
"How many million cases worldwide, and you're "relying on your own eyes"...
Who is compiling all of this data and what are the data standards? Garbage in - garbage out.
This is the epitome of *stupid*.
And yes, for anyone that stupid, I don't give a rat's ass if you're offended by that.
I'm not offended by this. I am waiting for you to enlighten me, if you can.
Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 1 2020 4:49 utc | 50
These individuals are dumber than Donald Trump... 'Nuff said.
Or they're trolls. There's no third option.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 1 2020 4:58 utc | 51
ted01
My daughter come down to visit for a week from Queensland as she had two weeks off. With the outbreaks in Melbourne Queensland announced that after a certain date, anyone entering or returning to Queensland would have to quarantine in a hotel at there own expense for 14 days. There is no testing. People may or may not have the bug but they have to go into quarantine. There is no testing so if they still have it or picked up the bug while in quarantine, they are free to leave. Now that is a success story. Yay for our shit for brains democratic government.
They have had many months to set up testing and labs that can process tests within a few hours but have not done so. To top that shit, our government has now committed to taking China down. Oz is fucked.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 1 2020 5:49 utc | 52
Covid19, when the first warnings were given out by WHO could have been stopped in its tracks. China made public the genome sequence early in January so all other countries could develop their own tests. Europe and the anglosphere ignored it. Now it is here to stay. Here in OZ, there is no move to ether eradicate it or go for herd immunity. We are in permanent lockdown.
Posted by: Peter AU | Jul 1 2020 6:07 utc | 53
@brian | Jun 30 2020 22:19 utc | 25
Covid19 isnt a serious global killer
cancer is a serious global killer
Cancer is not contagious. Covid-19 is.
A single tiny pebble rolling downhill can cause an avalanche. Covid-19 isn't as much of a killer now as cancer, but it could become far, far worse, exponentially worse (in the mathematical sense of "exponential"). The point of lockdowns and the use of facemasks is to stop the avalanche.
Posted by: Cyril | Jul 1 2020 6:09 utc | 54
Peter AU1 | Jul 1 2020 5:49 utc | 55
The State gov. have finally 'owned up' to this latest outbreak - for about a week it was all about blaming irresponsible family gatherings, it was all about 'us' breaking the rules.
Cracks in the way the '14 day hotel isolation' was being handled started about 6+ weeks ago when released 'detainees' stories about mismanagement started appearing in the media. Minimum wage security guards with absolute minimum training & expertise in managing people in quarantine - from newspaper reports all other states had the Australian Army Medical Corp supervising the quarantine hotels.
The icing on this debacle was that up to 30% of the 'detainees' were released after refusing to be tested for Covid 19 - apparently forcing a test would have violated their rights under 'The Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006 (Victoria)'.
Banning fishing, bush walking, surfing, golfing & being an arbitrary number of kilometres from your home (as decided by any random police officer)is not a violation of said charter.
The 'irresponsible families' story became untenable when it became widely known that the common denominator with these families was that they all had a family member working as a security guard at one of the hotels.
But despite this piece of mismanagement & incompetence, the state seems to have been mostly successful, all the while being maskless.
The state is now 'threatening' us with mandatory wearing of the mask, if we like recalcitrant children, don't behave ourselves.
Posted by: ted01 | Jul 1 2020 6:47 utc | 55
I think there is deception going on here on a global scale. The "covid" deaths are exaggerated and flawed.Many of those deemed to be covid deaths, showed symptoms and carried at least 2 other comorbidities, but had NOT BEEN TESTED !
Others who were tested,deemed "covid deaths" have other comorbidities and therefore died WITH covid, but not necessarily OF covid. On Jan 21st 2021 at the W.E.F. at Davos,, (Great Reset Summit) the Global Governance players will deal their hand, a major push to the long since mentioned New World Order.
Posted by: John Bowery | Jul 1 2020 7:17 utc | 56
The greater the numbers world wide of "covid" deaths, the greater the destruction of world economies, gdp , the more unemployment, closures of businesses, depression of a demoralised and fearful people, the stronger the cabal will appear. The corporate giants/ world leading banking houses will make their play for global governance. Agenda 21, Agenda 30, are the operation manual that underpin the whole new order. 160 countries are signatories. Think about that.
Posted by: John Bowery | Jul 1 2020 7:26 utc | 57
If I was conspiracy minded I would think that Victoria & by default Australia has been setup for the much vaunted 'second wave'.
Re: masks
As I have previously noted in the open thread - Any research/investigation/analysis into the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of wearing a mask that has been done in the last 6-8 months is not worth a pinch of shit.
Look to research papers from 10 - 15 years ago.
No mandatory mask wearing in Australia, yet we are promoted as a success story.
No mandatory mask wearing in New Zealand, yet that country is promoted as a success story.
So ask yourself this question - Why Is It So? (with apologies to Professor Julius Sumner Miller).
Posted by: ted01 | Jul 1 2020 7:38 utc | 58
I wonder when will be Le Pen's time to be president of France at this pace...Usual out-of-date idiocy. vk failed to notice that Le Pen lost heavily in Sunday's local elections in France. The winners were, amazingly, the Greens. Le Pen is finished (as was already true in 2017).Posted by: vk | Jun 30 2020 17:37 utc | 7
Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1 2020 9:48 utc | 59
@Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1 2020 9:48 utc | 65
That means Macron will be both Macron and the proverbial Le Pen to France.
Who said the French weren't stupid?
Posted by: vk | Jul 1 2020 10:08 utc | 60
I knew we'd have another ignorant superficial response. The French government has done well over the COVID crisis. The problem is largely over (though not the economic consequences). It's not Macron himself, who remains unpopular (largely because he seems a distant elitist, and not charismatic), but Edouard Philippe, the PM, who has been a steady hand on the tiller, and whose reputation is consequently steadily rising.
Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1 2020 10:37 utc | 61
Checkmate, anti-zionists conspiracy theorists:
Jewish deaths in UK more than double amid pandemic, data shows
If there's a Jewish plan to dominate the world, they certainly didn't account for this pandemic. Alt-righters and paleoconservatives must be scratching their heads right now. I think they'll just tell this fake news.
@ the "genocide" conspiracy theorists <=by: vk 47
Wealthy Jews have always abused their weak. Your observation suggest you are not aware that Poland, Germany, Russia, Austria Hungary and parts in and around them were destroyed [WWI and WWII] in order to force Jewish survivors into Ottoman Territories (places now called Syria, Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia) Migration was necessary to populate the land with voters, so that land that had no state enforceable private property rights could be transformed into land that had private owner property rights.
In sufficient numbers it would be possible to establish a suitable government, and that government could exercise it sovereignty such that the power of a sovereign state could be used to make private property laws that the state (government) could enforce. Those private property laws, could then be used to take ownership or to obtain drilling rights to the oil beneath the Ottoman land, ownership was proven by a deed recorded in a government office. Hence, Jewish migration into Palestine, provided private capital politics that allowed the states, the state made it possible for dictators, investors, bankers, and private oil and gas companies to acquire drilling rights, beneath the once Ottoman land. Many private immigrant developers would finance their land acquisitions to be developed into subdivisions, by selling to mining, exploration and drilling companies and land agents, the rights to drill beneath the lands.
So poor war weary Jews were forced to immigrate in large numbers to Palestine, it was a possession thing, designed to enable oil and gas companies to displace the Ottoman owners from their oil, Israel was one such state. Its existence, made rule of law possible, laws which allowed private ownership, allowed to take, buy or steal, the Ottoman land. A recorded deed, was sufficient to allow the State to use force to enforce the private ownership, and that enforcement made it possible for oil and gas interest to develop the Ottoman oil into private for profit business ventures.
the sacrifice of 6 million Jews made the exodus to Palestine happen in sufficient numbers. Interesting how it is that the Wealthy Bankers did not move to Palestine, Saudi Arabia, or Syria, etc. They stayed in their offices in England, Russia, Germany, USA, France etc. to continue their to oil and gas lending and investing business.
Posted by: a | Jul 1 2020 11:10 utc | 62
In this case, and facing all the evidence available, Occam's Razor holds firm: the simplest explanation is that the Western nations are in good ol' decline. Poorer, dumber, more aggressive, more humiliated, less capable.Only a nuclear war can save Western primacy over the world right now.
Spoken like a true Chinese/North Korean/Russian/Israeli troll. All the evidence available clearly points to the fact civilization is in decline. Period. Full stop. Civilization has despoiled the environment and depleted the planet's resources. The gig is up. Humans were bequeathed so many talents, and instead of using them wisely, they squandered the gift.
Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 12:00 utc | 63
Nah, your government just sucks. The sooner you accept it, the sooner you'll recover.
I accept it. The American government sucks. But, so too does your government suck if it's not the American government. If it's the Israeli government, it sucks. If it's the German government, it sucks. If it's the Russian government, it sucks. If it's the North Korean government, it sucks. If it's the Chinese government, it sucks. At this point in the history of civilization, there are no good governments. They all suck.
What part of this simple equation do these trolls not get? If, or more likely when, America collapses, the implications and blowback for the entire planet will be considerable. The world will not spontaneously transform into some egalitarian utopia. Quite the contrary will manifest. The world will descend into a chaos from which it will not return.
Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 12:09 utc | 64
One thing I've noticed at two excellent sites, this one and Automatic Earth, is that both are on the same side as the mainstream media and the globalist. I'd be rather nervous keeping such company.
If we were seeing the Black Death or the Spanish Flu type death tolls then I could understand the hysteria. With a death rate of something like 0.004%, that means over 99% of the population is not dying. Sure cases are exploding in the US now. We know that because the MSM keep reporting the numbers with great emotion. Yet 2 months ago the same media was reporting rising death counts. The death rate peaked May 7th and has been in decline since then. Tough to create fear when the trend is down. Thus they switched to case counts. Be sure, if deaths begin to rise again then they'll switch back.
This is the dilemma faced by people embracing Pandemic Panic. The MSM and governments have no credibility. Thanks to people like B, we know they endlessly lie and manipulate. Why would they suddenly begin telling the truth now? We were told that the lock downs were necessary to protect hospitals from being overwhelmed. The medical system was not overwhelmed yet the lock downs continue. They lied! Next it was no meetings of groups of people. Then came BLM protests and it was ok for mass gatherings - including one with the Canadian PM attending! So they lied again! Initially we were told not to wear masks. Actually to donate our masks to health care workers. Now we're seeing mandatory mask wearing laws! Seriously, they are making it all up as they go along. The one consistent thing is that every action increases government power, while taking away citizen's freedom of choice.
The big problem is that people supporting these draconian measures have never articulated how it makes anything better. Lock downs and masks, yet you can't keep societies locked down and people wearing masks forever. What's the end game? Mandatory vaccines? If you think that's the answer then I just have to shake my head. Now you're siding with Big Pharma! Though no one can prove that lock downs do more than delay the pandemic - plus Sweden and Japan are proof lock downs do nothing! - we do know one thing for certain. Lock downs turn governments into dictatorships and are the end of our free society. In other words, we should support actions that will ruin our society - plus give unlimited power to the criminal class running things - and trust that they'll magically make the pandemic go away. Snowflake society indeed.
Posted by: EoinW | Jul 1 2020 12:38 utc | 65
Only a nuclear war can save Western primacy over the world right now. Posted by: vk | Jul 1 2020 2:25 utc | 44
Ummm. Surely, in jest you mean. What would be left of the world, to have primacy over in such a war?
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jul 1 2020 13:00 utc | 66
If, or more likely when, America collapses, the implications and blowback for the entire planet will be considerable. The world will descend into a chaos from which it will not return.
Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 12:09 utc | 64
American exceptionalism at its finest. In reality, everyone will heave a sigh of relief, and get on with life.
Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1 2020 13:02 utc | 67
@ Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 12:09 utc | 64
No. Just your government sucks. Enough of these imperialist narratives.
Nice try.
Sakineh Bagoom @66: "What would be left of the world, to have primacy over in such a war?"
Not much recognizable would be left, but I am afraid VK is correct. The West is in terminal industrial decline, so economic warfare is losing its punch. Russia, China, and Iran's military advances make conventional warfare a very bad idea for America. Covert warfare is a failure because the CIA has become profoundly incompetent. Biological warfare has done vastly more damage to the US than to the empire's targets. What is left for the West to do?
From America's perspective, not attacking the empire's perceived enemies is the same as surrender, and surrender is not an option when the empire has been kneeling on so many necks for decades. If America stops kneeling on them, those countries will be able to stand up straight, and when they do what if they want revenge?
Check the post by the American two posts above yours. Many Americans truly believe as that poster does that if America stops holding all these countries down then "The world will descend into a chaos from which it will not return." Of course that perspective is literal lunacy and deep delusion, but that is what American Exceptionalism is at its core.
No, the West cannot stop attacking, but it doesn't have very many effective weapons left. Rather than let "the world descend into a chaos from which it will not return", the US may be crazy enough to go nuclear.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 1 2020 13:30 utc | 69
@ Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1 2020 10:37 utc | 61
So, French capitalist is saved. The economy is doing fine, the Yellow Vests never happened, Macron is fine, France is the epitome of levelheadedness.
I would like to live in this parallel universe, because, in my universe, the French economy continues its inexorable march to decline. Macron, by the way, is the poster boy for modern center-right neo-imperialism (conquer the Amazon from Brazil; create a new global coalition of the liberals, expand the EU, etc.).
Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 12:09 utc | 64 At this point in the history of civilization, there are no good governments. They all suck.
Governments have to suck. It's their nature. Or rather, it's human nature - and that sucks.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 1 2020 13:34 utc | 71
Laguerre et al - I don't think Prof Raoult would agree with your assessment of the French success in managing the CV crisis, given the incredible difference in the management in the south of France under the direction of Prof Raoult. They did their massive testing at the start, and isolated/quarantined cases, treating them with HCQ-AZM, and had half or less the mortality compared with Paris.
Raoult ascribes the failed policy to financial interests in Gilead and Remdesevir, a claim now backed up by the release of the cost of its rather ineffective treatment $US 2340 for five days. Enough to pay for over 500 hundred treatments with HCQ.
https://ahtribune.com/world/covid-19/4265-who-conflict-of-interest.html
Posted by: David Macilwain | Jul 1 2020 13:37 utc | 72
About the decline of the American Empire (therefore, also of the UK, therefore this is still on topic), see this astonishing data:
Capitalism does not fund innovation for social need but for profit
Here the amazing part of the article:
In the early 1960s, the US government spent more on R&D than the rest of the world combined.
From "more R&D than the rest of the world combined" to second fiddle to China. If that's not decline, I don't know what it is. But sure, buddy, China's government sucks, it deserves to be destroyed as much as the American one...
--//--
Talking about Western denial:
And still is objectively inferior to the USSR.
Everything good the Russian Federation has now - everything - is thanks to the USSR. The Russian Federation didn't "come a long way": it reduced the damage from Yeltsin by savaging what's still left of the USSR.
Seriously, when will westerners give up the idea that Russia will serve as a technical reserve of paleoconservatism? They treat it like some kind of last haven of Christian Nationalism or something, it's getting creepy.
American exceptionalism at its finest. In reality, everyone will heave a sigh of relief, and get on with life.Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1 2020 13:02 utc | 67
In fact, your stance is American Exceptionalism at its finest. Of course, it's well beyond your intellect to grasp that. Your stance supports American Exceptionalism. Your claim is that America is so big and so bad that it is responsible for ALL bad in the world or the lion's share of it. That's American Exceptionalism. America is not as great as jingoists claim it is as it isn't as evil as its zealous critics claim it it is. America is not exceptional, be it exceptionally bad or exceptionally great. America sucks like every other country.
Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 16:03 utc | 74
Are you serious? You truly believe America held China down? THAT IS LAUGHABLE. If not for America's grifting capitalists, the majority of Chinese would still be agrarian peasants. Not that there is anything wrong with that. It sure beats being ravenous consumers which is what they are now after learning well from their western capitalist masters. If American manufacturers didn't move their manufacturing base to China, had Ross Perot miraculously been elected POTUS and prevented NAFTA and globalized trade as it's manifested under the neoliberal banner, China wouldn't be what it is today, which is a super-organism set to put a knife in the heart of what is left of Planet Earth.
Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 16:13 utc | 75
@ Jen 41
You were right on. I always thought that this virus is very peculiar in its behavior compare to others. The author makes it clear that the virus was not designed to kill. Just highly contagious and low mortality. However, the hypoperfusion of the frontal lobe, loss of smell and taste which are in and directly adjacent to frontal lobe, respectively, were a revelation.
Then, came the mind control aspect of this whole thing which at a glance seems far fetched and more of a science fiction. But given CIA’s infatuation with that forever and experiments since WWII, I tend to believe the premise. Very sinister. Plus, he makes a convincing case for this when he compares this method to others. And of course, there is the vaccine. That is whole other blog.
Recommend James Corbet series on B. Gates and the vaccine program.
Posted by: Alpi | Jul 1 2020 16:19 utc | 76
@71, no argument from me on that. I agree, humans suck. People suck, for the most part. American Exceptionalism says ONLY AMERICANS SUCK. Apparently, there are quite a few American Exceptionalists out and about in this comments section.
Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 16:20 utc | 77
Alpi | Jun 30 2020 18:40 utc | 14
https://www.sott.net/article/437083-Compelling-Evidence-That-SARS-CoV-2-Was-Man-Made
Thanks very much for that it is a fascinating new look at the subject.
Posted by: foolisholdman | Jul 1 2020 16:27 utc | 78
@ Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 16:13 utc | 75
By your logic, the USA is then just a consequence of the British Empire, which is just a consequence of the Iberian Empire (Portugal + Spain), which are just a consequence of the Italian republics, which are then just a consequence of the Mongolian Empire, and so on.
American capitalists didn't outsource to China out of charity for the Chinese people. They established the rules of the game and China obeyed them. It was not up to the Chinese to choose their own conditions at that point.
@79
American capitalists didn't outsource to China out of charity for the Chinese people.
Of course they didn't. I never claimed they did. Their motivation is irrelevant. Either way, America did not hold China down and in fact, serendipitously of course, helped make China the exceptional nation it is — at destroying the planet at breakneck speed that is.
Your implication is, and I agree, that China used American capitalists every bit as much as American capitalists used Chinese communism in turning China into a giant manufacturing plant and toxic waste dump.
China learned well from their western capitalist masters. They have partnered on a great many things against their respective "people." Naomi Klein did an excellent job of investigative reporting on this article. It reveals that China is America 2.0. Western capitalists love China and for good reason. It's what they always wanted to be. State run capitalism sans restraint and beyond reproach. The sky, what's left of it and it isn't much, is the limit for China's state run unrestrained brand of capitalism. Especially with the likes of you promoting it like physicians promoted cigarettes in the 40s and 50s.
Thirty years ago, the city of Shenzhen didn’t exist. Back in those days, it was a string of small fishing villages and collectively run rice paddies, a place of rutted dirt roads and traditional temples. That was before the Communist Party chose it — thanks to its location close to Hong Kong’s port — to be China’s first “special economic zone,” one of only four areas where capitalism would be permitted on a trial basis. The theory behind the experiment was that the “real” China would keep its socialist soul intact while profiting from the private-sector jobs and industrial development created in Shenzhen. The result was a city of pure commerce, undiluted by history or rooted culture — the crack cocaine of capitalism. It was a force so addictive to investors that the Shenzhen experiment quickly expanded, swallowing not just the surrounding Pearl River Delta, which now houses roughly 100,000 factories, but much of the rest of the country as well. Today, Shenzhen is a city of 12.4 million people, and there is a good chance that at least half of everything you own was made here: iPods, laptops, sneakers, flatscreen TVs, cellphones, jeans, maybe your desk chair, possibly your car and almost certainly your printer.Hundreds of luxury condominiums tower over the city; many are more than 40 stories high, topped with three-story penthouses. Newer neighborhoods like Keji Yuan are packed with ostentatiously modern corporate campuses and decadent shopping malls. Rem Koolhaas, Prada’s favorite architect, is building a stock exchange in Shenzhen that looks like it floats — a design intended, he says, to “suggest and illustrate the process of the market.” A still-under-construction superlight subway will soon connect it all at high speed; every car has multiple TV screens broadcasting over a Wi-Fi network. At night, the entire city lights up like a pimped-out Hummer, with each five-star hotel and office tower competing over who can put on the best light show.Many of the big American players have set up shop in Shenzhen, but they look singularly unimpressive next to their Chinese competitors. The research complex for China’s telecom giant Huawei, for instance, is so large that it has its own highway exit, while its workers ride home on their own bus line. Pressed up against Shenzhen’s disco shopping centers, Wal-Mart superstores — of which there are nine in the city — look like dreary corner stores. (China almost seems to be mocking us: “You call that a superstore?”) McDonald’s and KFC appear every few blocks, but they seem almost retro next to the Real Kung Fu fast-food chain, whose mascot is a stylized Bruce Lee.
American commentators like CNN’s Jack Cafferty dismiss the Chinese as “the same bunch of goons and thugs they’ve been for the last 50 years.” But nobody told the people of Shenzhen, who are busily putting on a 24-hour-a-day show called “America” — a pirated version of the original, only with flashier design, higher profits and less complaining. This has not happened by accident. China today, epitomized by Shenzhen’s transition from mud to megacity in 30 years, represents a new way to organize society. Sometimes called “market Stalinism,” it is a potent hybrid of the most powerful political tools of authoritarian communism — central planning, merciless repression, constant surveillance — harnessed to advance the goals of global capitalism.
Remember how we’ve always been told that free markets and free people go hand in hand? That was a lie. It turns out that the most efficient delivery system for capitalism is actually a communist-style police state, fortressed with American “homeland security” technologies, pumped up with “war on terror” rhetoric. And the global corporations currently earning superprofits from this social experiment are unlikely to be content if the lucrative new market remains confined to cities such as Shenzhen. Like everything else assembled in China with American parts, Police State 2.0 is ready for export to a neighborhood near you.
Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 17:05 utc | 80
Please bear in mind that the modern medical industry has explicitly failed to cure so much as the common cold. They have miraculously failed to do so for over one hundred years now. What they have managed to do is sell a f#$& ton of drugs. Two simple facts to ponder, please.
@ Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 17:05 utc | 80
Naomi Klein is specifically talking about a Special Economic Zone, where capitalism is explicitly allowed. This was never a secret to anybody.
And ms. Klein can go to hell with her pseudo-sociological judgement and characterization about the Chinese system, as it is worth as much as anybody else's: she's not an expert on China, she's just a journalist, her opinion is worth shit and she must mention her sources. Just extrapolating Jak Cafferty (from CNN!) obviously won't do it. She can go to China herself and tell her wonderful thesis face-to-face with the 800 million Chinese the CCP lifted from poverty if she wants - I just don't promise she will come out alive from the experience.
Only in the demented mind of the likes of Naomi Klein Shenzhen was better off when it "didn't exist" than what it is now. What's the premise - that the Chinese don't deserve to have nice things?
There are two immense problems with the handling of Cov19.
The first is that its history, as presented by the W and the MSM (and not denied elsewhere much) is certainly false. I have posted about this before but I suppose it is too ‘conspiratorial’, not that I have ever sketched out a ‘conspiracy’ or pointed fingers (or only so indirectly as a potential ‘explanation’), and so not much attention is paid.
sidebar. — I have no clue if the virus was man-made or pangolin-made, or arose in China or elsewhere. What is clear to me though is that it took the Chinese with their virology knowledge and Statist approach to identify it and act determinedly. Naturally, much of the following of the enshrined narrative is due to cluelessness, follow the leader, and not evil plotters. —
Now, in one sense that doesn’t matter much - the virus is deadly and must be dealt with, its history, meh. In another sense it is important, e.g. for science, much of the scientific papers are of incredibly poor quality, and this is *in part* due to the presuppositions, accepted ‘factoids’, Docs, med. researchers, labor under.
The second problem is that dealing with the virus, in the West (not in Cuba, Venezuela, Taiwan, S. Korea, Slovakia, and many others) was made to rest on a hybrid of two inappropriate adopted frameworks: a military one — fight the virus, strategy, lockdown, sacrifice, extreme measures, etc. which I leave aside for now… and a scientist one — bowlerized pseudo principles coming mostly from…finance.
Here we meet “flatten the curve”, “preserve the NHS”, “contact tracing”, measures like R0, k (attempt to adjust) and other questionable stuff.
—Taleb’s fat tails for ex, I enjoyed The Black Swan, but he has been spouting nonsense. Cov-19 most resembles the Gomperz distribution, if one wants to get all ‘mathy’…not that that helps for now. —
Testing, test, test, test, is also a part of this discourse (I am not saying testing is no use or shouldn’t be done; but that it does not deserve the emp. put on it.)
The appropriate, correct frame for action, furnishing a guide, a path, is a medical one, known for centuries if not millenia.. Some ppl are ill, very ill, they must be treated as best as one can, and rigorously isolated, those who care for them need consequent protection equipment, thus short shifts, long rest time, and a form of isolation themselves. Civil protection, the military, and other bodies capable of collective, ordered actions, can be very useful.
Doctors and nurses should be in charge of the care and they should have the right to do what they deem is best, such as prescribe x medecine. Top-down management by ignorant ppl, and/or those with financial scamming aims, will inevitably make things worse, not better. (Not stating that Docs are geniuses and always do the ‘right’ thing, oh no..)
**Crazed** management example. Instructions for Triage of Cov19 Patients in Arizona (at present ‘overwhelmed) from 12 June 2020. PDF.
The UK has been subject to all the fallacies, bad models, difficulties and contradictions *partly* here described… but see the diff. between N. Ir and England for ex. in b’s post.
Apologies for the long post, not directly about Leicester. Data that might be useful is hidden — because the aim is not the join together to treat sick people or help diminished ppl recover or do the best for orphaned children.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gompertz_distribution
Posted by: Noirette | Jul 1 2020 17:18 utc | 83
Also, two quick questions that even the dumbest rookie cop should ask.
1- Are there drugs involved in this situation?
2- Is there money involved in this situation?
@82
I just don't promise she will come out alive from the experience.By your own typed words, this is yet another thing the Chinese learned from, and share in common with, their American masters. The vice of violence. Just wait until that pent up violence is focused on Russia when the going gets tough which is any day now. China and Russia share a border afterall. It's not like oceans have to be crossed to get it on. When the going gets tough, all bullshit will be eviscerated.
Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 17:22 utc | 85
@ Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 17:22 utc | 85
The problem with your line of thinking is that it revolves around the original sin fallacy, or, as I like to call it, the Primordial Soup fallacy.
Naomi Klein is essentially calling for the Chinese people to go back to the stone age. She's insulting the Chinese way of life, for which millions lost their lives fighting for. All of that under false arguments written in propaganda form. We could argue about imaginary moral systems here for eternity, but reality always prevails.
The Americans aren't the masters of the Chinese. Just ask Trump and his ilk. On the contrary: if it wasn't for China, the American Empire would've conquered the totality of the world during Bill Clinton (when the USA conquered Eastern Europe and Russia).
vk @86
It is good that you are correcting disinformation that others may read, but do not assume that you will change the poster's mind, or rather don't be disappointed if you do not change the poster's mind. A change of mind would conflict with the poster's purpose.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 1 2020 17:47 utc | 87
....but reality always prevails.
Indeed it does. Reality, for example, dictates that we as humans must have fresh water to live and grow. Economies need fresh water to grow. China is running out of fresh water and it knows it. It must transcend its national boundaries to get it, ultimately. Reality prevails. Nice things come with a price. A price too high to pay until it's too late to realize it or you didn't care enough to realize it when you should have.
“Four hundred Chinese cities now face a water shortage. One hundred and ten cities face a severe water shortage. This is a very serious problem,” says Liu Changming, a retired hydrologist for the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing.China is home to more than 20 percent of the world’s population, but it contains only 7 percent of the world’s fresh water. Liu, who advises China’s leaders on water policy, says all of China’s so-called “water scarce” cities are in northern China, home to half a billion people, and a region that contributes nearly half of China’s economic growth. Former Chinese premier Wen Jiabao once called northern China’s water shortage “a threat to the survival of the Chinese nation.”
According to Wang Shucheng, China’s former minister of water resources, at current rates of water extraction, many cities in northern China — including Beijing, home to more than 20 million people — will run out of water in 15 years.
Wang said this 11 years ago.That’s why China has spent more than $60 billion constructing the world’s largest water transfer project. In all, 2,700 miles of man-made waterways and canals will draw water from China’s southern rivers to satiate northern China’s thirst, the equivalent of building a cement river to take water from New York City and delivering it all the way to Los Angeles. Two of the three segments of China’s South-to-North Water Diversion Project are completed. Beijing began receiving water in December of 2014 from the project’s middle segment, a man-made river that draws water from the Han River, an important tributary of the Yangtze flowing through central China. The nation’s capital celebrated the arrival of hundreds of billions of gallons of water with reassuring state media reports that the water crisis had been averted.
But Liu says Beijing based the amount of water diverted for the project based on calculations of the Han River’s flow from the 1950s to the 1990s.
“These days, the water flow isn’t the same,” says Liu. “From 2001 to 2010, the water in the Han River decreased by more than 7 billion cubic meters. Such a huge drop in the amount of water might be problematic when we try to accomplish our original goal.”
Liu wrote a letter to former Premier Wen Jiabao about the problem, and he says leaders are now working out a solution, though he neglected to give any details. An obvious solution, say experts, would be to draw even more water from the Han River, a waterway 30 million people depend on.
Posted by: 450.org | Jul 1 2020 18:06 utc | 88
ptb @ 18.
The Fillion scandal — accusing him + his wife of practices that were, and are, common today amongst F parliamentarians, i.e. hiring family members as ‘aids’ to do this or that, the elected have the budget in their hands and can do absolutely as they like, and at least 1/3 of elected Ps hire family members, mistresses, kiddos, it might be far more, 3/4, 1, and ‘buddies’ are not counted… — was completely jigged up.
To show it was, gasp, *serious* the corrupt courts now hand out some convictions.
Many have pointed the finger at Sarkozy as the culprit (arch-enemy of Fillon) but he had not the power to effect the media and judiciary storm that took place. (=> a Has-been.)
The attack was implemented by backers of Macron (imho) to knock Fillon out of the Pres. race, reduce his popularity and credibility. Fillion refused to withdraw, as expected, thereby splitting the vote from the right and center and a few fringes, in 3 - for Fillon, Macron, and Le Pen, with in fine (second round) the predictable Le Pen stooge against the planned winner, Macron. (The Socialistes after the Hollande Presidency were dead in the water, and today nobody even remembers the name of their candidate, Benoit Hamon.)
1. Publically attested after counts, studies.
Posted by: Noirette | Jul 1 2020 18:51 utc | 89
sorry, that 89 was off topic, yet it was a response..
Posted by: Noirette | Jul 1 2020 18:55 utc | 90
Because nobody reads the old threads, I'm replying here ....
@Richard Steven Hack | Jun 30 2020 5:26 utc | 218
U.S. Politicians Still Do Not Understand the Coronavirus Time Lag
Indeed.
[On fire alarms.] That’s because you’re supposed to pull the alarm when you smell smoke, not wait until you see fire.
Posted by: Cyril | Jul 1 2020 19:13 utc | 91
Refs 18 and 89 Fillon
He was not thrown in jail; the sentence said 5 years, out of which 3 suspended, but he walked out free and will appeal.
Posted by: Mina | Jul 1 2020 20:29 utc | 92
Small test due to lost comments in this thread.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jul 1 2020 23:03 utc | 93
Another "conspiracy theory" shot down... Not only are there excess deaths, they are in excess of the official COVID-19 toll *and* normal deaths. Meaning people are dying at home because they are avoiding medical care due to the pandemic. Which a lot of people here suggested all along.
Excess U.S. Deaths Add to Pandemic’s Unofficial Toll
Thousands of deaths not attributed to Covid-19 were likely caused by the disease or indirect impacts of the pandemic, two new studies suggest
These findings, covering the period March 1 to April 25, also suggest “the Covid-19 death counts reported to the public underestimate the true death toll of the pandemic in the U.S., the researchers conclude today in the Journal of the American Medical Association.
Not only are we doing a crappy amount of testing, it's now being overwhelmed by new cases.
A Dire Warning From COVID-19 Test Providers
U.S. coronavirus testing could fail again, as surging demand creates new backlogs and delays
“This is very bad,” Michael Mina, an epidemiology professor at Harvard, told us. Rapid test-turnaround times are the only way to control the coronavirus without forcing every potentially contagious person — everyone who’s had contact with someone diagnosed with COVID-19 — into quarantine, he said: “Our modeling efforts more or less show that if you don’t get results back in a day or so, outbreaks really can’t be stopped without isolating and quarantining all contacts preemptively.”
So much for "death rates are falling"...and I estimated half a million, round that up another half million.
5 Stages of the Pandemic and Why Covid-19 Will Get Worse
While Covid-19 deaths had been declining since a peak in mid-April, they leveled off in recent days and are expected to begin climbing soon, according to epidemiologists, who study these patterns. They’re already rising in Arizona and Texas...“I would optimistically estimate that the final number [of U.S. deaths] will be closer to 1 million, if we are lucky,” says William Hanage, associate professor of epidemiology at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. He bases that calculation on current deaths-per-infections and a generous assumption of reaching herd immunity at just 50%, rather than 60%.
Bottom line?
“Someone you know is likely to die from this,” Hanage says. “Going forward, how do we stop more of that happening? Easy. Stop transmission. Stop blowing on the embers. It’s epidemiology, not rocket science.”
Well, there *are* "knuckleheads"... I don't have to be out to see them, I can read them here.
Don’t Play the Mask Shame Game
Even though it feels good
It isn’t correct to frame the question of whether we should be wearing masks as a debate because there’s no question that masks work. The question we’re actually debating is whether people should have to wear masks. The controversy is ideological, not scientific, and that’s why it’s so hard to manage. It doesn’t matter that masks are scientifically proven to be protective if some “knucklehead” (New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy’s words, not mine), or the president, has decided that wearing a mask is just “not for me.”
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 2 2020 5:39 utc | 94
Another example of France's brilliant handling of the epidemy.
French Guyana had almost zero cases in March, but the lockdown was imposed on them nevertheless.
Now that the peak is actually coming in the coming weeks (they have a border with Brazil which is very porous and have had rising numbers for almost a month now) we finally hear that they have only 13 ICU beds for 300,000 persons. Fr Guyana is known for its horrible sanitary situation from start
https://borgenproject.org/poverty-in-french-guiana/
https://borgenproject.org/poverty-in-french-guiana-french-economy/
They have been expecting reinforcement for the med staff since... one month.. but the 400 ppl announced have not yet showed up.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/french-guiana/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_French_Guiana
Posted by: Mina | Jul 2 2020 8:38 utc | 95
Killing bullshit about PCR.
Kary Mullis and Michael Smith won the 1993 Nobel Prize in Chemistry in a split award where one half went to Mullis for PCR and the other half went to Smith for fundamental contributions utilizing oligonucleotide methods.
The 1993 Chemistry Nobel Prize page can be found here and there's also a larger Nobel Foundation page on Kary Mullis here with first a few facts and then (keep scrolling) a very nice, warm, funny, and a little bit iconoclastic biographical with two addendum all written by Mullis himself, and further down also the text of Mullis' Nobel Lecture held on December the 8th 1993 which he obviously also wrote. Mullis died early August last year 74 years old.
Kary Mullis clearly was very pleased with PCR, its functionality, its applicability, its elegance, and anyone who says otherwise makes themselves look like a liar and needs to check their source.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jul 2 2020 10:46 utc | 96
These individuals are dumber than Donald Trump... 'Nuff said.
Or they're trolls. There's no third option.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 1 2020 4:58 utc | 51
Dear Richard, there is a hint of implication that some trolls are not dumber than Donald Trump. If nothing else, POTUS showed creativity in inventing very biting insults, making people thinks things like "[senator Marco] Rubio really talks like a robot" -- bye, bye candidate Rubio. Trolls deal with insult too, but they exhibit no creativity and power to convince. I understand the need for rhetorical figures, but as a troll, Trump represents the pinnacle of the craft. If he were just a bit smarter, this country would actually be in a decent shape. :=(
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 2 2020 19:52 utc | 97
@97
"If [Trump] were just a bit smarter," he would be dead - because he might have the wit to actually do some deliberate sabotage instead of his present accidental variety. I wouldn't care too much about that, as he's a racist and proto-fascist, but any replacement (by either of the two extremist right parties in the US) will be more obedient to the desires of the neo-nazi US state.
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Jul 7 2020 16:09 utc | 98
During the current ‘pandemic’ the UK government has employed ‘scientists’ and the 77th Brigade of the British army, to engage in information warfare using psychological operations online against British citizens to influence and control their behavior, with supporting propaganda and classical conditioning methods facilitated through the mainstream press and media.
To what end?
The sociopaths who are responsible for this catastrophe are the politicians who are in power.
They want more and more power.
They want the full population to fully embrace their totalitarian agenda.
Unenlightened people are always self-destructive.
They are self-destructive because they don’t know why they are here, where they are going, what the meaning and purpose of their life is.
Without knowing anything about themselves, whatever they do is going to be harmful.
It is going to be harmful to you, and through you, to others.
They cannot do anything but harm because their eyes are closed, they don’t have any inner sensitivity, they don’t have any creative joy.
Society is created by people suffering from the disease called seriousness.
The whole of society is dominated by this particular disease: mind.
It has dominated everything.
Society itself is ill.
Psychology means “the science of the soul” and the present psychology is not only not the science of the soul, it denies even the existence of the soul.
Western psychology studies only the mechanical behavior of the individual and the mechanics of mind.
Its studies cannot go very deep for the simple reason that if mind is all, and there is nothing more to life than mind, you cannot ever become one, undivided.
To be divided is the nature of the mind.
Love and hate, courage and fear, yes and no, atheism and theism.
Mind does not feel at ease unless it has divided a thing in two.
It cannot conceive of light unless it is contrasted with darkness, it cannot conceive of life unless it is defined by death.
And because psychology remains within the boundaries of the mind it cannot help individuals to grow to their potential heights.
To realize themselves.
Psychology will discourage you.
At the most it can help the individual to be normal, at the most!
“Just to be normal” is the goal of psychology.
A great goal, just to be normal.
And what is normal?
What is normalcy?
It simply means you are adjusted to the crowd.
So Western psychology is doing only one thing.
Whenever someone is maladjusted, western methods make that individual again adjusted to the crowd.
The crowd is not questioned at all.
Whether the crowd itself is okay is not the question.
Western psychology is the psychology of people who are asleep.
Yet it thinks it is the science of the mind.
Western psychology does not yet believe in the being of the indivdual, it believes only in the mind.
For Western psychology there is nothing beyond the mind… yet!
Western psychology is really just therapeutic, just a part of medicine.
It tries, it helps you to be readjusted, but it is not a transcendence.
Western psychology has dropped the idea of being, of your innermost self.
It is a very strange situation, because they say you become aware of the world through cognition, yet they deny you, they deny being.
Western psychology is still a game, guesswork, with no foundation in reality.
There is only one way to solve the mind and its problems, and that is to get out of it.
So the first step toward a harmony and unity of the being is not discipline but knowledge of that which is within.
The within has been so suppressed for centuries, for millennia, that this suppression has become a part of your self.
And not only you but the whole of humanity has suppressed what is within, you are just a part of the process.
You have not suppressed what is within you consciously, knowingly, it is part of your unconscious heritage to do that.
The people who came to Sigmund Freud, the founder of modern psychology, were all sick people.
That gave him the impression that the whole of humanity itself is sick.
In a way he is logical because everybody he examined, everybody he analyzed, everybody he treated was psychologically sick.
The whole world is a great madhouse yet we have hypnotized ourselves into thinking that we are sane, that we are normal.
This is the hypnosis!
Mind itself is the puzzle, it is its very nature to be puzzling.
So all the efforts that are made to solve it make it more complex, make it more difficult.
If you fight with it, you are fighting with yourself.
There can never be any victory, you cannot defeat it by fighting.
Because by fighting you will be dividing yourself into two, the fighter and the fought.
The struggle becomes infinite and meanwhile energy is dissipated, meanwhile life is wasted.
Remember, you cannot fight the mind.
Mind is nothing but a faculty of imagination.
No-mind is beyond mind.
No-mind is not opposite to mind.
It is a clarity, a silence, that can give you the deepest insight into mind.
You can look into all the layers of mind, but this is possible only from the highest point.
And because now you are no more in the mess of the mind, you are no more confined by your mind.
You have gone beyond boundaries, you cannot only see your mind, you can see mind as such.
And unless mind as such is known, modern psychology will remain just a fictitious game.
Because the person who is in the mind cannot be objective about it.
It is as if a mad person were doing research on madness.
Apparently, it looks logical, because they are mad they can do research on madness.
But it is not so in reality.
Only one who is sane can look at all the dimensions of insanity objectively.
The mad person is not in a position to see anything, to understand anything.
It is an impossible task.
They can create only a fictitious psychology.
If you are studying tomatoes, one thing is absolutely necessary, that you should not be a tomato.
Truth is not an object that you will find somewhere when you are silent.
Truth is your subjectivity.
Just try to understand.
You are there, and the whole world is there.
Whatever you see is an object, but who is seeing it is the subject.
Truth is subjectivity.
Your existence is the truth, and when you are silent you are in truth.
And if the silence is absolute then you are the ultimate truth.
The state of the awakened person is a state beyond mind.
They can see from the top of the hill into the dark valleys of the mind.
The hilltop is full of sunlight.
Their vision is clear, they have no prejudices, they have no preconceived ideologies.
They have left them far behind in the valley where everybody is a bigot, everybody is conditioned, everybody is divided.
None of them is capable of finding real psychology because they don’t fulfill the basic requirement.
The basic requirement is to go beyond mind, because only then you can see the functions of the mind, the subtle activities of the mind, the darkest corners of the mind.
From the hilltop of no-mind the whole valley is available to you, and you are simply a witness, an objective witness.
Posted by: Science Of No Mind | Jul 11 2020 8:50 utc | 99
The comments to this entry are closed.
To read FT articles behind the paywall, search on the site where a bird sings and then follow the link. This allows three pages a month or something like it but going incognito gets round that limit.
Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jun 30 2020 16:43 utc | 1