Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 25, 2020

"A Mask Is Not A Political Statement. It's An IQ Test."

The epidemic trend in the United States is grim:


Source: 91-divoc - bigger

The graphic does not yet include yesterday's number of new cases. It was the highest ever.

U.S. hits highest single day of new coronavirus cases with more than 45,500, breaking April record - NBC News

Houston has a problem:

Texas Children's Hospital now admitting adult patients due to COVID-19 spike in Houston - Houston Chronicle
Texas Medical Center ICUs at 97 percent capacity due to COVID-19 - Houston Culturemap

Testing is still a mess:

Weijia Jiang @weijia - 13:34 UTC · Jun 23, 2020

Just now I asked the President if he was kidding when he said he told his people to slow down testing, which is how White House officials explained the comment.
He said, “I don’t kid.”
He also said again testing is a double-edged sword, and praised the job the U.S. has done.

Arizona ‘Overwhelmed’ With Demand for Tests as U.S. System Shows Strain - NY Times

People seeking drive-up coronavirus tests in Phoenix faced a three-mile-long car line last weekend. On Friday, Arizona’s largest laboratory received twice as many samples as it could process. The phone line for testing appointments at a large site on the state fairgrounds now opens at 7 a.m. with 800 callers already in the queue.

By 7:07 a.m., all 1,000 appointments for the day are typically taken.

Yesterday Arizona had some 380 new cases per million inhabitants per day. On April 9 the outbreak in New York peaked at around 500 new cases per million inhabitants per day. But New York had been under lockdown since March 20. That stopped the outbreak. Arizona is not under lockdown.


Source: 91-divoc - bigger

Trump and some governors did not read what we predicted:

Early Lockdown Lifting Will Prolong The Greater Depression - MoA

We argued that as long as people fear to get infected they will simply not go to restaurants etc. Real data now confirms that take:

Fear of infection hurt economy more than lockdown - Boston Herald
Why Reopening Isn't Enough To Save The Economy - NPR

Chetty and his team compare, for example, Minnesota and Wisconsin. Minnesota allowed reopening weeks before Wisconsin, but if you look at spending patterns in both states, Minnesota did not see any boost compared with Wisconsin after it reopened. "The fundamental reason that people seem to be spending less is not because of state-imposed restrictions," Chetty said. "It's because high-income folks are able to work remotely, are choosing to self-isolate and are being cautious given health concerns. And unless you fundamentally address that concern, I think there's limited capacity to restart the economy."
...
Chetty and his team conclude that the traditional tools of economic policy — tax cuts and spending increases to boost demand — won't save the army of the unemployed. Instead, they say we need public health efforts to restore safety and convince consumers that it's OK to start going out again. Until then, they argue, we need to extend unemployment benefits and provide assistance to help low-income workers who will continue to struggle in the pandemic economy.

There are currently some 20 million people registered as unemployed plus 11 million on pandemic unemployment assistance (PUA). There jobs will not come back unless people feel safe:


Source: Calculated Risk - bigger

Masks:

John Aravosis @aravosis - 18:13 UTC · Jun 24, 2020
Floridians angrily claiming masks are the work of the devil because “they want to throw God’s wonderful breathing system out the door.” --> video

The three ladies in the video confirm the following take:

John Lundin @johnlundin - 13:54 UTC · 24 Jun 2020

A mask is not a political statement. It's an IQ test.

Posted by b on June 25, 2020 at 17:18 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page

Cyril @198--

I read what you wrote and should have included the fact that you're comparing apples to oranges.

Meanwhile, New spikes deemed "on the verge of being apocalyptic." Both Pence and Trump today furiously back peddled as their Treasonous Do Nothing and Don't Worry, Be Happy policies predictably fail with many more deaths and further economic dislocation certain to occur. Unfortunately, Nader's recent letter to Congress urging the resumption of the Impeachment Process makes no mention of Trump's dismantling of the primary means for the common defence and his subsequent Do Nothing Policy versus a pandemic pathogen, which IMO is far more grievous than all the other potential articles combined.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 26 2020 20:01 utc | 201

Cryril, please see @93 where I noted my own mistake but it does not change the point I made, deaths of 20 year olds by Covid 19 is still much smaller than Vietnam era deaths for the same age
group of American males. 1500vs50,000 actually 58,000

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 26 2020 20:12 utc | 202

Nemesis
They ve banned menthols in Europe recently (sigh.. what next? they ll also banned mentioning the amount of tar and nicotine in cigarettes..courtesy of philmorris probably).
I' ll have to stick to afghan then, it has the double advantage of providing nicotine for covid and spice for the atmosphere!

Posted by: Mina | Jun 26 2020 20:12 utc | 203

Eddison Flame | Jun 26 2020 3:47 utc | 116

"Can we at least tolerate our differences of opinion here."

Sure. My opinion is that I have a constitutional right to drive my pickup truck any way that I want to, and that includes driving down the left side of the freeway, and driving at high speed through large crowds of people.

If you so much as dare to question me about that, a large, angry group of my like-minded friends will gather around you, shout themselves hoarse at you, stab their forefingers right in your face, and threaten you and your family.

If you don't like it, well just get over it or get out! USA! USA! USA!

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jun 26 2020 20:20 utc | 204

just a passing comment... i do find it kind of ironic and telling that the stats on deaths from vietnam only focus on how many usa people died... it is kind of unrealistic from that angle, but is often mentioned regardless... same deal 9-11.. how many ''amerikkans died" verses how many have died thanks the usa's brilliant war on terrorism.. but news is news and info is all relative.. and i appreciate what cyril is getting at too!

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2020 20:24 utc | 205

lol - antispin! thanks for that.. not a bad analogy that sums it up pretty well...

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2020 20:25 utc | 206

People are so in credabilty entrenched regarding this subject, have the elites successfully devided us.
Shouldn’t we all be on the same side ? Come on guys put ya mask on just for me.
We can’t just go round and round here can we ?
One last point from me to ‘peg it’
Look at the vid posted by ‘innocent civilian’ @ 18
And compare it to my ——
Vid on my preveous comment.
Then tell me if those batshit crazy anti mask people aren’t
Insane. by comparison.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 26 2020 20:34 utc | 207

If you can put covid back into pandoras box why has no one put influenza a & b back in?
Stay in the basement all you want for the rest of your life. Covid will be around for the next million years. I would prefer to get it now and again in a few years mildly after it has mutated a bit. Just wait until the next exoerment gets out of the lab before going hog wild on wear facemask or not.

Posted by: nero | Jun 26 2020 20:37 utc | 208

@ Mina 203

Back when I partook, I became very adept at rolling Gauloises tobacco. Bar none best cigarette I ever smoked regularly.

I can't now, however, with my IBD. The right evening though, and a nice breeze? Sure I will have a smoke.

Afghan stuff sounds good!

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 26 2020 20:42 utc | 209

Sometimes I hate having a fixation on reading all the comments on this blog. Sometimes it's a chore and at first I wasn't intrigued by another mask post. However because so many of u manage to sort my own thoughts into coherent and more linear rearrangements at times I have an ocd compulsion to do so! It is a great credit to this blog that I recommended it without hesitation or warning to anyone who wants a different point of view. Every voice offers a certain wisdom or slant and I love the variety.
I think b concentrates on the issue of masks so much cause he's demonstrated they r effective and he gives a shit! I don't think it's click bait or easy posting. He cares! Ain't that sweet? I'm convinced. I don't wear one although my wife (ex) gave me one when I have t grocery shop etc. But now I will. See? B may save a life! What an amazing power.
My hesitation to wear a mask is basically I have a "cultural" bias against doing so. They're uncomfortable, ugly, and I hate feeling like I have the fucking plague but no more. I'll try and be a part of the solution.
Human nature is so frustrating though. Unless it's mandated people will volunteer to not change ones behaviour. As I've kept pointing out it's only so long that people can be vigilant about being afraid of something we cannot even see? It's probably too bad that this plague isn't (so far) more deadly than it is cause its obvious we're bored with it. If there is another or worse disease or if this one is proven to be more serious we're screwed. This is the benefit of the Chinese response to the virus versus the "loose leadership" response of most Western governments.
The future seems to be that we're all meant to get it and hopefully return to some sort of normal in September. If its a shitshow it's cause we partied too much over the summer. When they try putting the Cork back into the bottle the shtf.!

Posted by: PleaseBeleafMe | Jun 26 2020 20:45 utc | 210

Nero @ 208
Do you have the same attitude to condoms.
Both are protection and a matter of curtisey !
Remember ———
Wrap it up before you slap it up !!

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 26 2020 20:48 utc | 211

AntiSpin @ 190

Thank you for the link. Awful confusing now. I am able to walk in to Staples and purchase these KN 95 over the counter. Had no idea a national chain would sell fakes but it seems about par.

The Honest PPE KN 95 are certified or so they say? I give up.

Posted by: George | Jun 26 2020 20:53 utc | 212

How could "Honest PPE" be anything but the real deal.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 26 2020 20:56 utc | 213

@karlof1 | Jun 26 2020 20:01 utc | 201

I read what you wrote and should have included the fact that you're comparing apples to oranges.

If you read what I wrote in @Cyril | Jun 26 2020 19:24 utc | 194, you clearly didn't understand it.

Posted by: Cyril | Jun 26 2020 21:18 utc | 214

George 212

Check the certification then. Most that are on the market now will be genuine. A few of the Euro twits were winging because they did not conduct due dilligence when bying so Chinse government cracked down hard on the exporters, inspecting everything to ensure PPE was what it was stated to be. After that the yanks and Euro twits complained about delays in supplies.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 26 2020 21:20 utc | 215

@SwissArmyMan | Jun 26 2020 20:12 utc | 202

Cryril, please see @93 where I noted my own mistake but it does not change the point I made, deaths of 20 year olds by Covid 19 is still much smaller than Vietnam era deaths for the same age
group of American males. 1500vs50,000 actually 58,000

You did not answer my question: why focus on 20-year-old males when they were only a quarter of the deaths in Vietnam?

I think my conclusion stands: a male in USA of military age has almost five times the risk of dying from Covid-19 than he would have in the Vietnam War.

Posted by: Cyril | Jun 26 2020 21:21 utc | 216

oldhippie, 181:

500 hundred extra deaths in 100 days out of a population of 7 million is a significant spike upward.

NB: P100 masks have exhalation vents that do not filter the moist air the wearer breathes out. Those using them are part of the problem.

At least with an exhalation vent equipped N95 mask the user can block up the vent so his/her exhales are filtered.

N95 masks, or basic paper ones, are much more comfortable than a P100 mask for hours.

Posted by: Jay | Jun 26 2020 21:36 utc | 217

Cyril, 200:

Not only does SwissArmyMan's memory suck, he couldn't be bothered to check the number of names on the wall.

Posted by: Jay | Jun 26 2020 21:37 utc | 218

i don't know how accurate these covid tests are, but right now usa has 1/4 of the worlds cases...that is impressive given that the usa is not 1/4 of the worlds population.. today the usa is up over 41,000 new cases... some countries are doing more tests per million of people - russia and spain, but overall the usa is doing a high number of tests relative to all countries..

i don't know if this is intentional, but it sure looks like the usa wants to try the herd immunity strategy and it seems some of the posters here believe that is the only way as well.. i don't believe that is the case, but i don't know...

meanwhile can anyone tell me how long a person who is asymptomatic can infect another person? does anyone know? all these new people who are testing positive - assuming they have covid 19 - how long can they pass the germ onto others?? is it indefinite??

thanks..

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2020 21:43 utc | 219

oldhippie @ 196

"Hyrum Smith. Don’t expect you to concede but any who cared could look it up. " response to Karloff1

Interesting character this Hyrum Smith

Link

"After managing the fast-growing company among themselves for a time, Smith and his partners realized they needed help. He called on Bob Bennett, a former Washington, D.C., public relations executive and now a U.S. senator, to bring order to his burgeoning business affairs. They took the company public, and the resulting cash infusion not only helped expansion, it created a "heady sense of self-importance," Smith acknowledges.
A merger with motivational guru Stephen Covey's company in 1997 resulted in a name change and additional growth for Franklin Covey, which at its peak trained more than 40,000 people each month and employed 4,000 people. A company profile says its client portfolio "includes 82 of the Fortune 100 companies, more than two-thirds of the Fortune 500 companies, thousands of small and midsize companies, educational institutions, government agencies, communities, families and millions of individual consumers worldwide."

At the height of it all, Smith was traveling extensively, admired endlessly and honored profusely by organizations local and national for his leadership, business acumen and philanthropy. Among his accolades: three honorary doctorate degrees, leadership with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, public service awards by national organizations, membership on several boards, the S.R.I. Gallup Hall of Fame and Man of the Year award and the International Entrepreneur of the Year award from BYU's Marriott School of Management"

Now plug in the whacky cult and the intelligence agencies- Mormons play an outsize role in intelligence agencies..
There is information accessible on those ties. inc the CIA and that might provide insight into Karloff's weird predilections?
And that connection might just explain, more realistically, the perception managing promotion

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/the-mormon-ex-cia-man-set-to-upset-clinton-and-trump-in-utah-1.2844446

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cia-torture-psychologists/psychologist-who-helped-devise-cia-interrogation-program-lost-mormon-role-idUSKBN0JQ00H20141212

Undoubtedly a road less travelled, but, still full of sights to see

Posted by: R Rose | Jun 26 2020 21:55 utc | 220

I thought it was two to three weeks but I guess it depends on how long each persons immune system takes to destroy the virus.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 26 2020 21:56 utc | 221

thanks peter.... no one seems to know much for sure...

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2020 22:00 utc | 222

America has 40,000 new covid cases in the last 24 hours.
case closed I think.
Will they wake up ? And if not now when ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 26 2020 22:07 utc | 223

Jay @ 217

500 out of 7,000,000 does not even amount to statistical noise. You have no way of knowing they were excess. It would be difficult even to verify they occurred. Part of the problem here is that verbal people are entirely incapable with numbers. Right, left, center, mainstream or wacko, the sort of person who is a news reporter fails every time if numbers are involved. As a news consumer I just shut it off when it goes to numbers and look for other means of knowing.

P100 was used because it was on hand. Discovered long ago that when spraying detail at close range the exhale vent messes the paint. Fixed long ago. The 0.0001% of us who used masks before they became a crusade are not part of the problem. N95 is not intended to be worn for hours. You are damaging your health if you try that. Recently have seen infants wearing N95. More collateral damage. Public health measures do not work unless kept simple. From the beginning every element of this epidemic has been obscured with layer after layer of rubbish.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 26 2020 22:09 utc | 224

@ 223 mark2... usa up to 43,000 now and brazil close behind at 41,000 +.... https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2020 22:24 utc | 225

covid is a lab creared form of influenza. You can wear masks and cower for thecrest of your life. But why is everyone in panic now and not pre covid with influenza a and b on the loose?
Does it not also kill the weak.
So many self proclaimed geniuses at the bar. Did everyone come here from the econonist?

Posted by: nero | Jun 26 2020 22:47 utc | 226

No oldhippie @196, not Hyrum Smith who died in 1844, almost a full century before the advent of Behaviorism and the cognitive therapy model I'm referring to which was devised in 1958.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 26 2020 23:14 utc | 227

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 26 2020 20:34 utc | 207 We can’t just go round and round here can we ?

Yes, we can. As long as there are morons, that is. Which means forever - or until the topic dies out because there's a vaccine.

The virus will eventually be controlled, at least to some degree, and the morons will go back to being conspiracy theorists who think Trump (or whoever is President - they don't distinguish) is a lizard alien (except the ones who think he's an insectoid alien.)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 26 2020 23:28 utc | 228

usa for today - 45,000 new cases.......... 9000 in florida, 5000 in texas and 3500 each in california and arizona that border one another... that is about 21,000 or 1/2 of all the new cases today in the usa.. i would link to the site, but my last post is held in moderation due the link, so no link...

brazil today now has 47,000 new cases.. india - 18,000...

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2020 23:35 utc | 229

Posted by: PleaseBeleafMe | Jun 26 2020 20:45 utc | 210 Sometimes I hate having a fixation on reading all the comments on this blog. Sometimes it's a chore

Got that right!

"However because so many of u manage to sort my own thoughts into coherent and more linear rearrangements at times I have an ocd compulsion to do so!"

Yup. Same here. Well said.

"I think b concentrates on the issue of masks so much cause he's demonstrated they r effective and he gives a shit!"

I think he's a bit like me. He cares about *correctness* - that things are *factually correct.* Very German. :-)

"It's probably too bad that this plague isn't (so far) more deadly than it is cause its obvious we're bored with it."

Indeed. I'd love to see it start killing young people rather than old, like the 1918 virus, just to see the reaction from all the morons currently claiming they'd prefer the old people to just die so the young assholes can go to the bar and a ball game.

"If there is another or worse disease or if this one is proven to be more serious we're screwed. This is the benefit of the Chinese response to the virus versus the "loose leadership" response of most Western governments."

Absolutely correct.

"The future seems to be that we're all meant to get it and hopefully return to some sort of normal in September."

Forget about September. When flu season starts, it will be worse because then when someone dies, it's likely they had both flu and coronavirus and we won't be able to tell which - or whether both - killed them. That will start a new round of "it's only the flu" by the morons. Oh, happy day!

"Cheer up - things could be worse. So I cheered up - and sure enough, things got worse."

For me, I've gotten through three months of this crap. I see no reason - other than plain bad luck - that I can't get through another 3, 6, 9, 12 months until there is an effective treatment or a vaccine.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 26 2020 23:36 utc | 230

Speaking of "young deaths", there's this from the article Karlof1 recommended...


The Times also reported Thursday on the rising number of adults in their 20s, 30s, and 40s with confirmed infections in some places of the country where the case numbers are surging, pointing to Arizona, Florida, and Texas as examples.

"What is clear is that the proportion of people who are younger appears to have dramatically changed," Joseph McCormick, a professor of epidemiology at UTHealth School of Public Health in Brownsville, told the Times. "It's really quite disturbing."

According to the newspaper:

The pattern is drawing notice from mayors, governors, and public health officials, and comes as a worrisome sign for cities and institutions as they look to the fall. The rise in cases among younger people could complicate the plans of leaders who are eager to open schools and universities, resume athletic events, and return to normal life and a fully functioning economy.

The increases could reflect a simple reality: Since many states have reopened bars, restaurants and offices, the coronavirus has been allowed to spread more widely across communities, including to more young people. But people in their 20s and 30s are also more likely to go out socializing, experts say, raising concerns that asymptomatic young people are helping to spread the virus to more vulnerable Americans at a time when cases are surging dangerously in the South and the West.

What it *really* means is that all these younger people who *still* have *comorbidities* are now getting it, aided by the social aspects the paragraph states.

This is precisely what I've been saying - the more the virus spreads, the more people with comorbidities would be infected and the more die, regardless of age. We have close to 100 million people in this country with one or more comorbidities - diabetes, asthma and health disease. If any significant percentage of them get it - and if it's not fought properly, the vast majority *will* get it - even if the probability of death is only 1%, that is going to be some fraction of a million people dying.

We're already heading for an easy 140,000-150,000 dead by end of the year - five times the normal flu and twice the worst normal flu - and the second wave hasn't even arrived. We're still on the *first* wave, which has fortunately been moderated by the lockdown. When the second wave hits - and Trump has declared there will be no further lockdown - it will be SHTF time. And if there *is* a lockdown, it will likely be 1) worse for the economy, and 2) likely botched like the first one was.

Fall-Winter-Spring 2020-2021 is gonna be a rough time.


The poll also found that 56% of Americans believe the economy is reopening too quickly and 76% of Americans are now concerned about contracting the virus, which is up from 69% in early June and reverses a two-month declining trend since April.

And of course, the morons here have the only *true* view - and everyone else is a brainwashed slob. While I normally would agree with that view in general, clearly the morons are losing the argument. Which is only natural - as more people get it due to improper handling of the situation, the argument that "I don't anyone who got it" becomes less viable. As more older relatives or relatives with comorbidities die, the argument that "it's normal flu" will get weaker and weaker.

Morons - you're the fucked. LOL

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 26 2020 23:57 utc | 231

"health disease" s/b "heart disease"...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 26 2020 23:59 utc | 232

Aaargh... "I don't anyone who got it" s/b "I don't know anyone who got it"...

Really wish there was an editing function...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 27 2020 0:01 utc | 233

nero @Jun26 22:47 #225

covid is a lab creared form of influenza.

Wrong. "It's just the flu" has been debunked many times. It's called science.

=
You can wear masks and cower for thecrest of your life.

Wrong. You can wear masks and NOT cower.

=
But why is everyone in panic now ...

The only ones in a panic are the libertarian anti-mask crowd who pretend that their freedumbs are threatened. Strangely, they're not complaining about not being able to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater.

=
Does it not also kill the weak.

Careful nero. If the weak are expendable, how soon before the weak-minded are too? As you're clearly a moron, you're just putting yourself in danger.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 27 2020 0:02 utc | 234

@Eddison Flame | Jun 26 2020 3:47 utc | 116

On the other hand, please don’t force others to change their lives because you have become paranoid. Imagine what kind of world this would be if we all had to live according to the worst fears of the most paranoid among us. Shall the hypochondriacs of the world dictate how the rest of the world lives?

Hypochondriacs are normally not contagious. Covid-19 is.

There is a significant risk that the coronavirus could get totally out of control. The US currently has a slow burn, but that could erupt into a raging forest fire. You don't want to experience what the latter feels like, you really don't.


Unfortunately, very little can be done.

A lot can be done. What is unfortunate is that the US is not doing it.

Posted by: Cyril | Jun 27 2020 0:23 utc | 235

SwissArmyMan, post 202:

I made, deaths of 20 year olds by Covid 19 is still much smaller than Vietnam era deaths for the same age group of American males. 1500vs50,000 actually 58,000.

You do understand that the Vietnam war lasted more than 150 days?

Posted by: Jay | Jun 27 2020 0:36 utc | 236

233
Oh name calling, just as expected.
I'll be on the side of Darwin, survival of the fittest.
Drink more round up jack rabbid

Posted by: nero | Jun 27 2020 0:38 utc | 237

500 out of 7,000,000 does not even amount to statistical noise. You have no way of knowing they were excess. It would be difficult even to verify they occurred.


It's NOT 500 out of 7 millions, it's 500 excess, and yes, we can confirm excess deaths by counting deaths in the same months for 2017, 2017, and 2019. Then no, 500 excess deaths for a population of 7 million would be big.

"difficult to even verify" puts you squarely in rightist wingnut territory. Try not getting your facts from Hannity.

From the beginning every element of this epidemic has been obscured with layer after layer of rubbish.

And yet, you've not managed to cite that rubbish, well except where you went Hannity.

N95 is not intended to be worn for hours.

No need to wear an N95 mask continuously for hours, unless you're on a plane say from LA to NYC. True a cloth mask is easier to breath with.

You should have thought about your choice to use a P100, especially since the exhalation is unfiltered--unless your special modification added filtration, which is unlikely given where the exhale vents are located.

Posted by: Jay | Jun 27 2020 0:45 utc | 238

@ 236 nero.. your post @ 225 was condescending to the posters here.. does that also escape your awareness?? getting in a tizzy over jr's response and taking a turn at pot calling the kettle black is mildly entertaining... oh no, but i won't resort to name calling, lolol... just imply people here are retards and expect a different result!

Posted by: james | Jun 27 2020 1:04 utc | 239

If you wear a mask you fail the iq test. The virus is fake, cv19 was only ever hypothetical, there is no pandemic. No lab or hospital anywhere in the world has isolated the sars-cov-2 virus from an infected person. It doesn't exist. Y'all will be judged for your sins

Posted by: Dan Evans | Jun 27 2020 1:52 utc | 240

@238
My apologies if your feelings are hurt. I am aware of my surroundings and in fact live in reality. I'm not in a tizzy, please explain to everyone how you will rid the world of influenza a & b? Bill Gates would like to test some of his latest lab creations on you. Smart people like yourself. He is smart, you are smart, its a win win. That is intended to be condescending if you can't figure that out.

Posted by: nero | Jun 27 2020 2:06 utc | 241

the superior attitude towards others doesn't cut it...

Posted by: james | Jun 27 2020 2:09 utc | 242

@AntiSpin | Jun 26 2020 20:20 utc | 204

Eddison Flame | Jun 26 2020 3:47 utc | 116

"Can we at least tolerate our differences of opinion here."

Sure. My opinion is that I have a constitutional right to drive my pickup truck any way that I want to, and that includes driving down the left side of the freeway, and driving at high speed through large crowds of people.

If you so much as dare to question me about that, a large, angry group of my like-minded friends will gather around you, shout themselves hoarse at you, stab their forefingers right in your face, and threaten you and your family.

If you don't like it, well just get over it or get out! USA! USA! USA!

Ha ha ha, you have perfectly summed up the attitude of the "lockdowns are offensive to my freedom" crowd.


@james | Jun 26 2020 20:25 utc | 206

lol - antispin! thanks for that.. not a bad analogy that sums it up pretty well...

Agreed!

Posted by: Cyril | Jun 27 2020 2:26 utc | 243

Osha requires a minimum of 19.5% oxygen level in workplace (notmal is 21%). Below that they say is harmful to health. Wearing a mask will mean the oxygen you breathe is less than 19.5% because you fill your mask with CO2.

Prolonged mask wearing is harmful. A study with surgeons showed significant oxygen reduction in lungs and 1-2 point reduction of oxygen levels in blood. These are healthy and younger people so probably no problem for them but anyone who is older, having lung or heart disease, are very young, or who is doing manual labor or exercise should not wear a mask .

Anyone who cant see that I am sorry for your cognitive handicap.

As for cases, so what? Cases up because tests are up and because lockdowns over. Duh. Most of the cases are younger folks who dont get sick or at least not very sick. The asymptomatic cases which CDC estimates at 35% don't spread the disease. Deaths rates are way down and hospitals capacity is adequate. For anyone under the age of 60 and healthy this is nothing more than a cold.

This should be so obvious by now for anyone who can think. If you dint see it, I am sorry for you and any dependents you may have.

Also, last time I checked -I could find no reported deaths among federal officials, congress, state executives, CEO’s of listed companies , or professional athletes in US or famous actors/actresses under age 55

As of May 22, 5,959 troops have been diagnosed, 161 of whom have been hospitalized, with 3,103 recoveries and two deaths. Thats out of 1.3 million.

More employees include over 826,000 National Guard and Reservists from the armed forces, and over 732,000 civilians and unknown number of contractors. Including these and there dependents, or roughly 5 million people in total there have been 33 deaths (basically normalized to 1800 for a population of 300 million) 16 civilians, 9 contractors, 5 defendants, 2 active troops, 1reservist)

Maybe they are taking HCQ or maybe its not that harmful to anyone not in a nursing home or being locked down?


Posted by: Pft | Jun 27 2020 2:29 utc | 244

nero @Jun27 0:38 #236

I'll be on the side of Darwin, survival of the fittest.

Nah, you're on the side of your namesake Nero who is generally regarded as a crazy bastard that killed lots of people needlessly.

It's funny that you even mention "survival of the fittest" while America falls further and further behind in virtually every area. In 2015 USA was ranked 28th in High School Math and Science Education.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 27 2020 3:09 utc | 245

karlof1 @226 I think this is the Hyrum Smith oldhippie was referring to. And he does in fact seem to have been a member (and apparently even excommunicated once) of the LDS church.

Posted by: robjira | Jun 27 2020 3:50 utc | 246

Dude named Canadian Prepper on Youtube pointed me to this Kaiser Health article that explains first and second waves...

Is A Second Wave Of Coronavirus Coming?

There is some interesting facts here:


The number of new daily infections (as seen in this chart) declined by only about one-third between its peak in early March and its most recent low point in early June. And since early June, the data shows an upward spike, approaching where it stood at that peak...

“Some places, such as New York and Boston, have what appears to be a clear first peak or wave,” said Brooke Nichols, an assistant professor at Boston University’s School of Public Health. “Some places are still in the first wave.”...

There were at least three distinct waves of influenza in 1918 and 1919, which killed an estimated 50 million people worldwide. The pandemic was simultaneous with World War I, and the war is believed to have spread the virus around the globe more quickly than it otherwise would have.

The first wave began in March 1918 and eased by the summer. The second wave came in the fall, followed by a third wave during the winter and spring of 1919...

The first wave “was not very deadly,” said J. Alexander Navarro, assistant director of the Center for the History of Medicine at the University of Michigan. “It was about as bad as ordinary strains of seasonal influenza that had been circulating up until that point.”

The second wave was the deadliest, and that may have been due to mutations that increased the virus’s lethality, although scientists say this is speculative and that such mutations more typically take much longer to develop and spread.

The second wave “slowed towards the end of November, in part because more stringent social distancing measures were put in place,” said Kenneth Davis, author of “More Deadly Than War: The Hidden History of the Spanish Flu and the First World War.” “When those were relaxed, a third wave commenced in the winter and spring of 1919.”

The third wave lasted into early March, and some suggest there was a fourth wave during the winter of 1920. Each was less deadly than the one before it, Navarro said, although there were regional differences in severity...

The patterns in mutations and seasonality suggest that the coronavirus may not follow the wave patterns of the 1918 flu. Instead, the spread of the coronavirus may follow something more like a plateau, with spikes possible if social distancing isn’t adhered to fully....

In 1918, some cities saw an easing of the pandemic once they neared herd immunity, but that’s not going to be as helpful with the coronavirus. Because the coronavirus is more infectious than the 1918 virus, the percentage of the population needed to reach herd immunity has to be about 65% today, compared with about 35% in 1918.

“In 1918, they could get through the pandemic more quickly because of that, and even so, they did it with a staggering death toll,” Navarro said. “Today, the coronavirus will be with us for a lot longer.”...

The biggest risk, scientists say, is a loosening of social distancing measures.

A much larger portion of the economy today is engaged in consumer-driven commerce such as the restaurant and entertainment sector. This heightens the economic pressure to relax social distancing standards. But doing so could worsen the pandemic.

“In 1918, once measures were lifted, the population very quickly went back to life as normal, flocking to movies, shops and stores, dance halls and saloons,” Navarro said. “That led to another spike of cases in many cities.”

Nichols said a community’s past experience with the virus can make a difference.

In Boston, where Nichols is based, “the first wave was relatively severe, and many people know someone who was personally affected by COVID or had a COVID-
related death in the family,” she said. “That affects people’s behavior. In areas where epidemic growth has been slow, the urgency of changing one’s behavior is less.”

Nichols added that experiencing the summer, when people have the freedom to interact outdoors, could make it harder to practice social distancing in the colder months.

“I fear that people will continue their summer socializing patterns into the fall and winter, turning very low-risk interactions into relatively high-risk interactions,” she said....

I bolded the most important parts.

The only positive note was that the experts believe the virus won't mutate easily, in part because of the "spike" mechanism it uses to attach itself to susceptible cells.

The real problem is, as always...morons.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 27 2020 3:53 utc | 247

Well, of course I fucked up the damn HREF...sigh...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 27 2020 3:55 utc | 248

So, it seems the virus was roaming througth Europa as early as March 2019


The final nail in the coffin of the ''chinese virus'' bullying??

https://twitter.com/voz_populi/status/1276459191222353920

Posted by: Mariátegui | Jun 27 2020 4:05 utc | 249

Mariátegui @Jun27 4:05 #248

occupatio mentioned this on the "Deutsche Lufthansa" thread.

It seems rather nonsensical. The researchers only found it in March 2019. They didn't find it in any sample after that until sometime in 2020.

See my full comment here and read the one right after also.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 27 2020 4:17 utc | 250

Richard Steven Hack @Jun27 3:53 #246

Those are some good points. History teaches us to be wary of new viruses.

Morons throw caution to the wind. Alfred E. Neumann: What me worry?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 27 2020 4:30 utc | 251

@244
fiddle sticks, I am not in America. Lots of people high on drugs drinking fluoride there. Please do the world a favor and stop using the dollar. If your country can't then your part of the problem and just a stupid as the lot.

Posted by: nero | Jun 27 2020 4:59 utc | 252

Thanks to b for continuing to post on the status of the pandemic. I believe he is making a difference in terms of quality of life for many who receive his information through this blog, not just in the US but also in other countries where various approaches are being taken. That b has spent so much time on this issue is a credit to his concern for best ideas about treatment as those are evolving as rapidly as the virus itself. And it is to his credit that he allows those who disagree with him to give what arguments they may have, so that we can reassess our own convictions - something I always am doing with respect to many of mine. Thanks to all commenters and hopefully some will feel better about doing what b advises, even if not completely convinced, as most of us are. A favorite Jewish saying comes to mind - "It can't hurt." (And no, Old Hippie, I am not a rabid Zionista!)

And it really can't hurt to wear a mask, even a homemade cloth one such as I have. The arguments for doing so outweigh those against, which frankly impress me as childish. When it rains an umbrella is nice to have - who thinks that turns one into a wimp? And this virus is far more serious than rain drops. I do think that while we protect others by wearing a mask, it does make me feel safer also. My mask has three inner layers of an old t'shirt material, so it's thick enough to deter exhalations both ways. And it can be laid on my western windowsill for a good dose of sunshine before I need to wear it again. I do wish the US government, both parties, would get its ducks in a row on this important issue - they have fallen down miserably with their laisse faire attitude, and I will join karlof1 in saying I believe it is a breach of their Constitutional duties. We need better!

Thanks again, b, and all.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 27 2020 5:00 utc | 253

The nurses get screwed while the insurance gets a hand out. You can only read of this at the WSWS

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 27 2020 6:01 utc | 254

Richard Steven Hack #247

Well, of course I fucked up the damn HREF...sigh...

Yes and you did such a mighty fuckup you can shout the bar. Tequila straight.

Mighty good story too and I have no doubt it will be a serious reality for the 'early openers' with no precautions.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 27 2020 6:50 utc | 256

@253
I have seen it first hand. Message to those who think the majority of doctors and nurses are saints should know that if you have good insurance and are admitted to a hospital (hospitalization for a few days) your chances of coming out alive are not good. Usually starts with blood testing a couple times a day until your unwashed dead skin cells on your body gets shoved into a artery and you develop a blood infection, requiring more needle pricks and one or two more draw lines put in. Your death will be labeled septic, the hospital will collect massive amounts from the insurance companies. This happens all the time. 95% on this forum will call me a liar, but I say this to the 5% with a brain that understands health care in the US. RUN!! Do home remedy or travel overseas. I have seen this with my own eyes and watched a loved one die. I saw it go from mystery infection (no baths or cleaning of patient) to brain surgery (just to look at possible spot in mri) to dialysis to death. Go in for something small and watch it escalate to ICU and death. All for the insurance payout! This is the state of healthcare in the States. I pity the poor bloke who goes into a hospital thinking they are on your side. With this Covid I read about breathing machines that are blowing up lungs. wow, just wow.

Posted by: nero | Jun 27 2020 7:00 utc | 257

170 - Turkey is a fascist state, where elected members of parliament can have their elected status and parliamentary immunity taken away and then be jailed. So imposing huge fines for not wearing a mask is par for the course. It is also an exercise in state control but also merely a gesture because Erdogan does not want to impose lockdowns, fearing the already fragile economy will collapse. Draconian imposition of masks is a way of appearing to do something about the virus without really doing so, and in the second place it is the state issuing commands in an attempt to appear strong.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 27 2020 8:57 utc | 258

Waldorf @ 258
Most of us here will see and understand what you say here, there are concerns that this whole virus thing is / will be exploited by extreme political control freaks. Yes we have to fight against that ! no argument, but
We are dealing with two issues - one medical and one political.
Yes it is both a battle and a war.
Priorities!
First take care of your health, then fight the war !
If this had been nucular radiation, would you say ‘ I won’t protect my-selve becouse it’s ‘political ‘

Think about it

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 27 2020 9:25 utc | 259

UK getting ready for peak in one month; now I know why there is a "special relation" between the US and the UK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWhxkIKRwWc

Posted by: Mina | Jun 27 2020 9:26 utc | 260

Yes Mina @ 260
The relationship between U.K. and US could be described as —— ‘Stockholm syndrome’
And then there’s Israel and their psychopath lobby groups !

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 27 2020 9:59 utc | 261

Jay@236 Here is the math.....

U.S. Coronavirus Deaths by Age Feb 1st to Jun 17th source CDC
15-24 yrs old 125 deaths that includes women.

125 / 5 * 60 equals 1500 if 16 to 24 yr olds were to continue to
die at the same rate the next 5 years, something which has never happened before compared to the (corrected) 58,000 names on the wall the majority of which fall in the same age category.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 27 2020 11:38 utc | 262

The mask is entertainment. (as is the headline)

If the virus attaches itself to a large particle, like a drop of water, it won't detach when it hits the filter? I think not. It would act as a sieve that catches rock while allowing sand to pass. The mask is a conformity test, a cool souvenir. An IQ test? What's the square root of negative one? I try not to think about it, but I was reminded of it while watching "Westworld" yesterday. Sent the AI into a feedback loop. Careful not to be taken in by parody and sarcasm.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | Jun 27 2020 14:16 utc | 263

What you get after several years consuming fake news, plus being deprived of geopolitical reality ! ——— Curmudgeon @ 263

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 27 2020 14:43 utc | 264

watching "Gone With The Wind" now, having nothing to do with politics of course :^)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | Jun 27 2020 14:48 utc | 265

Curmudgeon, 263:

It would act as a sieve that catches rock while allowing sand to pass.

What happens with damp sand and that sieve. Also mask are largely made of fibrous material, unlike sieves that are made of metal or in some cases plastic. Like many who with subject, you're very confused about moisture.

@SwissArmyMan:

You're confusing me with someone who claimed that the virus death toll in the USA was the equivalent of US losses in the Vietnam war.

When all I did was point out that you'd implied the US war in Vietnam lasted 3-4 months.


Also US soldiers started dying in the Vietnam war in the early 1960s, arguably in fact in the mid-1940s. Yes, 40s, not 50s.

Posted by: Jay | Jun 27 2020 15:03 utc | 266

curmudgeon @ 265
You do know ‘gone with the wind’ isn’t real ?
Early Hollywood propergander !
Prognosis ——— Trump world.
Good greaf there’s no hope for the man !
Hope it’s not contagious.
Has he no shame.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 27 2020 15:06 utc | 267

Good one. It's called fiction for that same reason.

Jay: My 95 masks are rated for TB. They're good for smoke and dust too. They're not enough for a virus. To answer your question, the water and sand both pass through the sieve. In other words any particle small enough to pass will get through.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | Jun 27 2020 15:24 utc | 268

pft@ 244


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

40% of transmissions occurring before symptom onset

mean time of exposure to symptom onset 6 days.

Scenario 5:
* Parameter values for disease severity, viral transmissibility, and pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic disease transmission that represent the best estimate, based on the latest surveillance data and scientific knowledge. Parameter values are based on data received by CDC prior to 4/29/2020.P

Posted by: suzan | Jun 27 2020 15:29 utc | 269

This is as good a time as any for nudists to make an argument about decriminalizing indecent exposure. It's many times more dangerous to not wear a mask than it is to not wear clothing. Same with speeding tickets. This is the time to call for an end to speeding tickets and to decriminalize speeding. It's as dangerous to not wear a mask and maybe even more dangerous than it is to speed. Either make not wearing a mask illegal, or decriminalize other "offenses" that are currently illegal but not any more dangerous than not wearing a mask.

Posted by: 450.org | Jun 27 2020 16:16 utc | 270

supporting b and many others views here - Coronavirus cases rise in states with relaxed face mask policies

from the philadephia inquirer...

Posted by: james | Jun 27 2020 16:40 utc | 272

masks for any indoor or outdoor public event are mandatory in washington state as of yesterday.. they don't want to compete with the other mask free states..

Posted by: james | Jun 27 2020 17:54 utc | 273

James are the masks also mandatory for civil unrest. There’s hope yet for Washington !

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 27 2020 19:07 utc | 274

Curmudgeon, 268:

To answer your question, the water and sand both pass through the sieve.

Purposely misreading my question, you ignored the adjective "damp" isn't an out for your ignorance of moisture, and what it does to sand or viruses.

Posted by: Jay | Jun 27 2020 20:05 utc | 275

Jay: My mistake is the presumption that dampness implies water? I'm a native to the USA, a USian if you don't mind the term. Maybe if you explain it real slow I can catch up.

james: I'm in NC where the governor has declared mandatory masking too. There's no way of knowing how many people are actually using them, but the idea is to create a semblance of empowerment for those who are powerless.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | Jun 27 2020 23:29 utc | 276

@ Posted by: Curmudgeon | Jun 27 2020 14:16 utc | 263

No. Viruses are very fragile beings. They generally can't survive the harsh atmosphere. They are very weak against physical (mechanical) trauma. Viruses which can be airborne are really rare.

It is expected that, once out of the water (or an aqueous medium, like the blood), the virus can't survive even a fraction of a second.

Posted by: vk | Jun 27 2020 23:51 utc | 277

vk: I'm not sure what that means. My understanding is the virus isn't alive, so no survival. It's akin to a poison or irritant or allergen.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | Jun 28 2020 0:02 utc | 278

@ 274 mark2! we'll see.. that is washington state, not to be confused with washington d.c.!

@ 276 curmdgeon.. we'll see how it develops.. i don't know if it is going to be enforced.. i live in b.c. right north of washington state... i am not sure how it is going to work out.. b.c. wants to open up, which includes letting tourists from other places come to b.c. i can't see how it can work out myself.. cheers..

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2020 0:07 utc | 279

james: yeah opening up is a growing concern here too. We were a tech hub back in the days leading up to the dotcom crisis, now services and tourism are more important. Well... good luck to y'all up there! cheers

Posted by: Curmudgeon | Jun 28 2020 0:18 utc | 280

@ 280 curmudgeon.. thanks and ditto!

i see another 43,000 new cases in the usa today.... 9500 in florida, 6000 texax, 4200 california, 3600 in arizona... the tempo is picking up, not slowing down...

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2020 1:02 utc | 281

In small-town Texas yesterday in my corner convenience store nobody except me was wearing a mask, and tonight they're all wearing masks and telling people they can't come into the store without a mask. (The people say, "oh" and go back to their car to get the masks that they have, but haven't felt right wearing into this store in the past.)

I don't know if it's a state mandate, the store clerk didn't know and said it was the store chain's new policy that just came down.

Talked to a friend in Florida just now, she said it's governor's orders there now - you enter a building, you wear a mask.

So it took the meat grinder of natural consequences to get us past the founding propaganda narrative from Fauci and CDC that masks were useless, and arrive at the now changed position of mandatory masks. Welcome to America - it only took us 5 months to figure out our lives were in danger. How well does this presage survival in the future?

~~

However, as I said before, and still see as true, it was the people of the US who figured out that masks were necessary, and who started wearing them, even when CDC and the crook-liar Fauci said not to. All thanks to the Internet, and people doing their own research and drawing their own conclusions - let's never forget this portion of the US population that can still somewhat think for itself.

That (very large) segment of the population has been wearing masks all along. What's happening now is the redneck minimalists and the punk Millennials who thought they were bulletproof are being ordered by their bosses to join in.

Before you know it, we'll have a new narrative from the White House pretending that the government knew this all along, and has been doing it all along, and anyone who hasn't was a crazy rebel. Oh, and we have the best response in the world, they'll say.

The mask is worn to hide the swearing under one's breath from listening to the polluted airwaves filled with lies, evasion, hypocrisy, greed and fear.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 28 2020 2:18 utc | 282

I haven't seen this posted anywhere yet, so here goes.

Larry Romanoff - who I thought did a great job early in the year of deconstructing the lies and squeezing the truth out of this pandemic - theorizes that the new virus in Beijing right now is a new attack by the US. He concludes that it's a "re-seeding" of the country with a new strain. Since he's coining the concept he coins the lovely new word for this next-iteration disease, COVID-20:

COVID-19: China Reseeded with COVID-20

Personally, I find that his thesis makes a lot of sense, and also his foundational surmises that this has been biowarfare all along.

~~

A note on the findings in Barcelona that COVID-19 was present in the wastewater LAST year, in March of 2019. I've only seen a couple of reports thus far, but I surmise that wastewater plants take samples of their water and after they test them they have an archive that they don't throw away. This is how Barcelona is able to research that far back. This is only my surmise - if anyone knows the industry please add corrections or collateral.

What I have seen reported is that other municipalities and nations are starting to research their own wastewater - this adds to my surmise that such facilities keep records.

~~

Neither of these things seems widely reported at the moment. Let's hope more reports and comments accrue soon to our understanding of where and how this menace came at us.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 28 2020 2:39 utc | 283

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 28 2020 2:39 utc | 283

Thanks, watched this morning while looking for Roberts Godfree... more believable than Pompeo and Scott Morrison versions. I hope after two Chinese vaccines undergo phase three clinical trials proves successful, they will come back and find the real culprits.

Posted by: JC | Jun 28 2020 3:01 utc | 284

Grieved @Jun28 2:39 #283

The possibility of "reseeding" is what I first thought of when I heard about the new strain in China.

It occurs to me that finding the virus in Europe in early 2019 could exonerate USA as well as China. But the Barcelona wastewater treatment finding seems strange and unless it is confirmed in other places I would say it is just an anomaly. They were looking for two markers, which they found in the March 2019 sample. But that doesn't mean that it was SARS-COV-2. Just that it was possible that it was.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 28 2020 3:29 utc | 285

450.org #176

I can't wait for the Speakeasies to pop up. I have a great name for one. COVID. Or. Pandemic.

Fort Detrick Refugee Bar.
Port-on Down
Spike's Corona on Ice

Drinks:
Corona with a splice of genes
The Fort Detrick escape
Cuban Cure
Hydroxy Hammer

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 28 2020 3:56 utc | 286

@ Grieved | Jun 28 2020 2:39 utc | 283 with the unz link

Thanks for the link. Too many unanswered questions to not believe humanity is experiencing bio-warfare.

The fact that there are all these unlikely strains in all these locations with no patient zero anywhere strains any credulity. Covid has a human supply chain for distribution.

I would encourage all US readers to follow the link Grieved provided and then email your local wastewater treatment organization with questions about testing dated waste water samples for covid. If all these foreign countries are doing it and discovering pertinent data then maybe local US science applied at the local level can break trough the BS we are being fed.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 28 2020 4:01 utc | 287

Mark2 #187 & #207

We are here, we didn’t disappear. We are politics on the street. You can keep your Trump/Clinton bs.
We are many, expect us !

Thank you for that vid of Jeremy Corbyn, a thoroughly decent human being. He is light years ahead of those batsh!t crazies and most other politicians in the UK. His message was excellent and that has been his style all along.

My masks are everywhere and when I encounter crowds I grab one and I am not bothered by the anti-mask debate here or elsewhere. They just seem prudent in these times, like applying bug off on your boots when walking with leeches.

ps. next time you make a reference to one of your earlier posts include the number or reiterate the link. Its easier and I appreciate your information sufficient to chase it up. Cheers.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 28 2020 4:16 utc | 288

As a follow up to my comment # 287 where I suggest US folk email their local government asking them to test historical samples from their wastewater treatment plants for covid.

I just emailed my local government, Corvllis , OR asking for such and saying I don't trust the information I am being told. I used the following Reuters link to show them reporting of other historical waste water testing for covid
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-sewage-idUSKBN23Q1J9

I encourage MoA barflies from all over the world to ask their local governments to perform historical covid testing of waste water and reporting of the results........what should be done by our central governments but are not.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 28 2020 4:32 utc | 289

Grieved #283

Larry Romanoff - who I thought did a great job early in the year of deconstructing the lies and squeezing the truth out of this pandemic - theorizes that the new virus in Beijing right now is a new attack by the US. He concludes that it's a "re-seeding" of the country with a new strain. Since he's coining the concept he coins the lovely new word for this next-iteration disease, COVID-20:

COVID-19: China Reseeded with COVID-20

Personally, I find that his thesis makes a lot of sense, and also his foundational surmises that this has been biowarfare all along.

Thank you Grieved, that was a mighty compelling proposition. I am off looking for interviews with Larry Romanoff. I did not think much of the commentariat at UNZ to this report. Simultaneous seeding is a dead give-away, I must admit.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 28 2020 5:50 utc | 290

Larry Romanoff sources. I have had a quick search and here are some sites that will give you more of Larry Romanoff's reports.

Primary page of his publications
A copy of an April 2020 Guns 'n Butter podcast interview (since deleted from GnB site)
A March 2020 report at Information Clearing House

These theories are the true grit of fear and loathing so I recommend you wear a mask ;)

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 28 2020 6:19 utc | 291

People's "certainty" on this subject is premature (and often predicated on the highly dubious assumption that an effective vaccine will be developed, tested, approved, manufactured, distributed and administered within the next two years).

The data are almost entirely useless; different countries have wildly different testing regimes, and the individuals running and working in all the different health care systems and organisations have different incentives to exaggerate or downplay cases, infection rates and fatalities.

Combine this with the politicisation of science and the vast sums on offer to Big Pharma if they can develop a vaccine, and it means we're all in a smog of claims, counter-claims and outright lies (the recent HCL "research" scandals, dismissing its effectiveness with cooked-up data (Surgisphere) or not testing it with zinc (Oxford), are illustrative of how corrupt and unreliable scientific studies have become).

Having said that... the severity of the disease appears to be related to 4 factors: your age, your co-morbidities, your immune system health, and the viral load you ingest on first exposure. You can't do much about the first two factors, but you can augment your immune system with sunshine/vitamin D, sleep and exercise. The better quality mask you wear will reduce the viral load you are exposed to if you are in an environment where such loads exist. So if you are in a high-risk category, wearing a decent mask is a good idea from a purely self-interested standpoint.

Whereas, wearing a face covering of almost any sort will reduce the quantity of droplets that infected people will release into the atmosphere upon inhalation, which will reduce their infectivity. So wearing a mask is a civic duty in circumstances where the people around you are likely to be rendered gravely ill if they become infected. That would be in proximity to the elderly, the obese/diabetic, or in enclosed environments where staff are likely to be surrounded by viral loads for long periods of time.

Obviously, if you've already had the disease and are no longer liable to infect or be infected, wearing a mask is pointless (or, according to some studies, likely to harm you).

So can we please have a little less certainty and self-righteousness in our diatribes here.

Posted by: Observer | Jun 28 2020 9:28 utc | 292

The comments sound like a schism of Papists and Lutherans, both arguing based on the same Bible.
Between maximal effort and doing absolutely nothing is a very large scale, where wearing a mask or don't wearing it are very close to each other somewhere in the middle of the scale. Who ever believe in the extreme danger, could move to a hut somewhere in the Rockies or in abandoned villages in the Fly-overs (just look at the history during the real plagues). Wearing a mask or not wouldn't make a difference if you are alone there. Loss of comfort? No electricity? It's for the well being of all, for safeguarding the seniors! Little sacrifices for that shouldn't be a problem.

Posted by: BG13 | Jun 28 2020 13:15 utc | 293

And I thought it was ridiculous when I jumped the shark.

Stick a fork in moa.

Posted by: Thefonz | Jun 28 2020 13:27 utc | 294

@ 292 observer... thanks... agree with your last line in particular...

@ grieved... thanks for the link to the larry romanoff article... i am unconvinced... it is a good conspiracy theory though... i think there are a lot of things we don't know about for sure as observer implies in their last sentence... romanoff's article is built on a lot of speculation and not a lot of substance... yes, i read the article from university of barcelona on covid in march 2019, but again - i remain sceptical.... thanks regardless!

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2020 15:22 utc | 295

The disease seems to easily go from humans to animals and vice-versa, as credible from the fact the Netherlands has decided to kill 1000s of minks after employees of the farms were found infected.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/25/882095588/dutch-minks-contract-covid-19-and-appear-to-infect-humans?t=1593364599409

Posted by: Mina | Jun 28 2020 17:17 utc | 296

Remember when NY state had over 10,000 cases a day for seven days over three weeks in April? And Gov Cuomo threatened to sue Gov Raimondo of RI for trying to quarantine NYers entering her state? And Cuomo shouted down idiot Trump who was asking for a tri-state quarantine? NY ended up seeding covid-19 hot spots throughout the country (NY Times May 7, 2020) as determined by viral strain. Now Gov. Cuomo is threatening to arrest anyone entering NY from those hot spots. Only in America!
The critical data is DEATHS per million, and the only four states with >1000 (up to 1702 deaths per million) are Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey and New York. Infections in the young and healthy will be well handled, the concern is if they pass the disease, often asymptomatically to parents and grandparents (the median age of death is still ~80 years old). Most Asian countries STILL have deaths per million in the 0-8 per million range (NY is 1702 per million; still has about 300,000 active cases, twice any other state.)
My veterinarian friends were absolutely stunned that glucocorticoid were not already standard of care in covid-19 patients, since a single high dose of dexamethasone or methylprednisolone is standard in serious respiratory infections in all large animals (often with antibiotics). The Chinese published efficacy of glucocorticoids in March, but the WHO recommended against using immune suppressants, thinking the virus might not have run its course in hospitalized patients. As in other respiratory infections, overactive immune system is responsible for most deaths (and increase acute phase clotting), so glucocorticoids are a no-brainer.

Posted by: michael888 | Jun 28 2020 23:18 utc | 297

What many on this site including the owner himself fail to understand that the tests don't work. Not only do they test positive for a whole range of other similar virus' but the result is also unreliable, hence why we see multiple tests on a single patient in a clinical environment.

I agree with post number 1.

Posted by: Ross | Jun 30 2020 10:58 utc | 298

Ross #298

Exactly that - the tests are a crock of sh!t if they are pcr.
My problem is that I have never caught any of the coronavirus illness in years gone by. I never have a flu shot. So I dont know if I have even had this covid-19 and I have zero confidence in the tests.

Wear a mask out of respect for the vulnerable ones.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 30 2020 11:38 utc | 299

Mina #296

That mink report is a real alarm siren. The larger the infection pool, the greater the risk of this becoming a serious global killer. That is why the UK & USA are incredibly stupid - they enlarge the mutation pool. A nation size petri dish - sheesh!

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 30 2020 11:44 utc | 300

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