Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 13, 2020

Open Thread 2020-38


There have recently been some very loooooong comments that were 90-100% copies of stuff published elsewhere. I tend to delete those because of potential copyright issues. Such comments also destroy the readability of the comments.

Please refrain from posting whole articles, stories or complete studies that are published elsewhere.

This is the web. Link such pieces, say what the link is about and, if needed for your argument, quote excerpts.


News & views ...


Posted by b on May 13, 2020 at 14:49 UTC | Permalink

next page »

I recommend:
- A per person word limit
- A per person rate limit
- Topicality enforcement

Posted by: bjd | May 13 2020 15:21 utc | 1

This piece from The Onion could well be talking about this website lately:

In response to the ongoing coronavirus outbreak, top U.S. health experts warned the nation Thursday to hold onto their fucking seats, because this bitch hasn’t even thought about starting yet. “We’ve been getting a lot of questions surrounding Covid-19, and, well, you all better buckle the fuck up, because this shit is about to kick into high gear,” said Stanford professor of health research and policy Richard Mason, throwing all his papers in the air and warning the nation that they better strap in tight, because this motherfucker will knock you on your goddamn ass. “If you think it’s bad now, just fucking wait, because this son of a bitch is gonna go into full-fledged annihilation mode. Seriously, wash your hands, cut off your hands—it doesn’t fucking matter. You poor bastards are going to get absolutely fucking destroyed.” At press time, Mason knocked over his podium, curled up in a ball on the floor, and started screaming, “Steel yourselves!”

Posted by: Marion | May 13 2020 15:26 utc | 2

Off to punish China with a spanking:

Bending to White House pressure, U.S. board delays Federal pension fund investments in Chinese stocks

be careful of the consequences.

Posted by: Likklemore | May 13 2020 15:31 utc | 3

moonbat loon sat typy typy
long wind tailspin snipy snipy
fascist fruit now ripe and juicy
goon-backed rules all loosey goosey

Posted by: lizard | May 13 2020 15:33 utc | 4

b noted I'm partially guilt my views and opinions still remain the same. Thanks JC

Posted by: JC | May 13 2020 15:33 utc | 5

- word limit sounds like the 4 m2 per kid in the reopened French schools
- "loooooooonng" does not sound like "our b"

Posted by: Mina | May 13 2020 16:30 utc | 6

Many signs that ‘leaders’ knew something was up and/or coming in January 2020 exist— news etc. was pretty public

(25 jan - about 2.7 K were infected, 80 died in Wuhan, it was later reported..)

- Several reports of Trump being warned of a dangerous disease etc. which he ignored

- Agnes Buzyn, the then F Min. of Health has admitted that in Jan “she foresaw the tsunami that was to come” - she lied to the public, was reassuring

- Shi Zengli (the Bat Lady, expert on viruses) published ‘the’ paper detailing the genome sequence of the 2019-nCoV (published 3 Feb, it must have been submitted in Jan.)

- News about a novel corona virus was common

Contagion Live News (USA) lists it in top news on 12 Jan, at no. 4.

The genome sequence was lodged with GenBank on 11 Jan.

What does all this mean? One possible answer is that the virus has been ‘active’ since, say, March 2019, or even earlier (see previous thread), but was not identified as a cause (confused with flu, pneumonia, vaping, old age co-morbidities, etc.) until ppl started falling down in Wuhan, and only the Chinese, in the shape of Bat Lady and her team, were capable of realising and detailing what was happening. Maybe. Maybe not.

Posted by: Noirette | May 13 2020 16:32 utc | 7

Anytime a person chimes in with their very special opinions on the The Rona, I have to remind myself that 99% of us have access to informantion and that only. We are not replicating lab results, consulting directly with experts, or delving in to deep truthy-goodness. And as such, we are subject to the the swarming disinfo tactics that predominate this medium.
Microbiological realities aside, it is clear that the pandemic is being used as a tool to reshape civilization. Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (F.U.D.) are time tested tools for this reshaping. I am not claiming to have answers, much less solutions. But it is clear to me that the same entities that walked away with billions in 2001, 2008, are pulling a heist of epic proportions again.
I have over the years coined the term 'NeoFeudalism' and this event is setting the stage for it to become reality. There is already enough predictive programming in the air to indicate that there will be additional waves of novel viruses, more suffication of economies, and errosion of liberties. I am basing this on the fact(s) that in the not so distant past every major event (world wars et al) is followed by more centralized control.

Posted by: Chevrus | May 13 2020 16:36 utc | 8

So, the Russia collusion scandal is an empty shell after it was exposed in Congressional testimony that Crowdstrike had found no evidence of Russia hacking the DNC. Its odd that no one asks the question behind the reason for the ruse or demanding someone be prosecuted for inflicting us with the most misguided accusation against a world nuclear power. I don't think the axiom of 'the cover up was worse than the crime' applies here. The admission to Congress caps a long string of events that make our democracy appear the sham it is. I think the overall timeline goes like this; Hillary buys the DNC, Bernie Sanders runs, no one in power thinks he has a chance and ignores his campaign, since Hillary had already acquired the nomination through contract deceit and connections, the Sanders campaign grows and makes Hillary's coronation not a done deal, someone at the DNC feels that what Hillary is doing is wrong for democracy and despises the cheating against the Sanders campaign and proceeds to leak the communications of the DNC to expose the charade, Hillary's scheme is so complete she even manages to get her favored opponent to win the Republican nomination, the leak is identified through channels(probably an intelligence professional exposed the leak to HRC through privileged information ) but the person in question is not known yet, In response to the growing popularity Sanders campaign the blame is focused onto the Sanders campaign to try to score a primary shift and dent the Sanders campaign, the charge doesn't work, but the media and the DNC proceeds to snuff out the Sanders campaign, Crowdstrike identifies the leaker, but doesn't disclose the information to the public, Wikileaks notifies the public that they have acquired a trove of leaked emails from the DNC, Guccifer 2.0(CIA or Atlantic Council fake hacker) releases a bunch of nonsense useless information claiming that they had hacked the DNC front running the Wikileaks email release while Wikileaks was still screening the emails for private information, thus putting the concept of an international hack into play to cover up the malfeasance exposed in the emails, Seth Rich is assassinated eliminating the actual leaker and leaving a void to be filled by the Hillary campaign, Trump touts the release of the DNC emails by Wikileaks, even though he had nothing to do with it in the first place, but the HRC campaign uses the announcement to claim that Wikileaks and Trump are in collusion with Russia to steal the nomination, Trump unexpectedly pulls off the win over the HRC campaign, HRC and company try to paint Trump as a traitor to hamper his administration by deeming him illegitimate due to the fake Russian hacking scandal. I don't know if the timeline I'm putting out here is right since I'm pulling from Memory regarding the 2016 campaign, but I feel that since they crammed that crap into our faces 24-7 for almost 3 years, these conspirators should be facing justice, every last one of them.

Posted by: ET | May 13 2020 16:40 utc | 9

The scoundrels who plotted Russiagate need to lawyer up:

John Brennan Concealed 'High-Quality' Intelligence That Russia Wanted Hillary Clinton To Win:

Former CIA director John Brennan suppressed intelligence which indicated that Russia wanted Hillary Clinton to win because "she was a known quantity," vs. the unpredictable Donald Trump, according to Fox News' Ed Henry.[.]


Never mind the prosecutorial misdeeds - FBI Can't prove guilt.
Judge Sullivan is delaying DOJ's move to drop the case against General Flynn.

Posted by: Likklemore | May 13 2020 16:41 utc | 10

Given the dominance of The Rona in the news media, many other important topics have been eclipsed.
As one who has been following the conflist in and around Syria, I wonder just what is happening in the north west and along the Turkish border. Is al-Tanf still in US control? What about other border crossings with Iraq? Are the recent upticks in ISIS attecks in Iraq an indication that the USA is flexing to maintain control as they have been asked to leave?
R&U viseo has continued to post footage from these areas. Syper has slowed down to standstill. ANNA news has some very good documenting. I wonder what the SAA and Tiger Forces are doing as the global supply chain slows down. This is probably a good time to assess, move assets around and get ready for a final push.

Posted by: Chevrus | May 13 2020 16:43 utc | 11

Nancy @8 "what if HCQ with azithromyecin and zinc... [works]?"

It can only work in an environment with extensive testing. Apparently healthy people need to be screened regularly in order to catch the infection at its early stages. Once people end up in the hospital then it is too late for that treatment.

That said, what I would be most interested in knowing is if low daily doses of quinine and zinc increase resistance to infection. We're unlikely to find out any time soon if that is the case, though. Regardless, I will continue to swig my ethanol enhanced tonic water whatever the case may be because it tastes pretty good.

Posted by: William Gruff | May 13 2020 16:54 utc | 12

There's a thing called paragraphs. Use them.

Posted by: occupatio | May 13 2020 16:56 utc | 13

Btw, it is possible to ‘construct’ or ‘replicate’ such a virus de novo in a lab. A synthetic clone has been produced by the Swiss (also the Japanese? idk)

Posted by: Noirette | May 13 2020 17:11 utc | 14

"The US military is hell-bent on trying to overpower China"


Posted by: arby | May 13 2020 17:12 utc | 15

Epidemy of.. suicides among passengers and workers jailed on cruise boats. The company said (heard a report on the radio) that it would cost too much to buy repatriation tickets for everyone. some 2000 employees are lockdown in their cabins.

Posted by: Mina | May 13 2020 17:21 utc | 16

Michael Hudson has a new (Sunday) post: Dollar Recycling and Military Encirclement

More and more of the U.S. federal debt has been owed to foreign central banks. That means that foreign countries are, in effect, financing the costs of surrounding them(selves) with the 800 U.S. military bases. This enables the United States to make military threats, in case they cannot conquer you intellectually by making you follow the University of Chicago and IMF financialization policy.

This transcript is from last November's "International Seminar on Land, Finance, and De-dollarization", which was held in Macau, China. De-dollarization is happening. When the Fed holds all the dollars and the rest of the world has none, that will be the end of Federal Reserve Notes.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | May 13 2020 17:25 utc | 17

Some good treatment updates by Paul Marik, MD, Chief of Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine, Eastern Virginia Medical School, Norfolk, VA (hat tip RSH)

It is our collective opinion that the historically high levels of morbidity and mortality from COVID-19 is due to a single factor: the widespread and inappropriate reluctance amongst intensivists to employ anti-inflammatory and anticoagulant treatments, including corticosteroid therapy early in the course of a patient’s hospitalization. It is essential to recognize that it is not the virus that is killing the patient, rather it is the patient’s overactive immune system. The flames of the “cytokine fire” are out of control and need to be extinguished. Providing supportive care (with ventilators that themselves stoke the fire) and waiting for the cytokine fire to burn itself out simply does not work.

The systematic failure of critical care systems to adopt corticosteroid therapy resulted from the published recommendations against corticosteroids use. Their erroneous recommendation to avoid corticosteroids in the treatment of COVID-19 has led to the development of myriad organ failures which have overwhelmed critical care systems across the world. 

It is important to recognize that “COVID-19 pneumonia” does not cause ARDS. Treating these patients with early intubation and the ARDNSnet treatment protocol will cause the disease you are trying to prevent i.e. ARDS. These patients tolerate hypoxia remarkable well, without an increase in blood lactate concentration nor a fall in central venous  oxygen saturation. We therefore suggest the liberal us of HFNC (high flow nasal cannula).

It's interesting that the cytokine storm is being seen to be a predominate feature of Covid-2.

This was thought to be a predominate feature of the 1918 pandemic but that hit many more young people and it was thought that their stronger immune function helped predispose to the cytokine storm.  Of course this was more speculative as not much sophisticated testing was available then. Now it seems it could be suggested that a stronger immune system is protecting against this cytokine dysfunction possibly by getting the virus under control sooner. 

Also of note I think the Chinese were more liberal in using corticosteroids.

Posted by: financial matters | May 13 2020 17:40 utc | 18

A vaccine for the coronavirus is expected to take years to develop, if it's developed at all. Is it really possible that one can be ready by the end of July as the Russian Health Minister reportedly claimed today?

Posted by: Brendan | May 13 2020 17:48 utc | 19

@Noirette "(published 3 Feb, it must have been submitted in Jan.)"

"Received: 20 January 2020" (click on PDF)

Posted by: Keith McClary | May 13 2020 17:54 utc | 20

Trailer Trash @ 17.  Great article

Unfortunately the US Treasury has become a dangerous substitute for gold as a global standard.  Through the IMF and World Bank the US has pillaged many countries.  Also the US Treasury is currently considered as the best collateral backing the crazy derivatives market.

As Hudson mentions the way out is being shown by China, Russian and Iran trying to come up with their own currency space that becomes large enough to be used as a more reliable, multipolar global standard through efforts such as the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.

Posted by: financial matters | May 13 2020 18:04 utc | 21

Bad news for the pro-summer theorists/enthusiasts:

Hot weather does not kill COVID-19, may facilitate its spread, scientist says

The scientist added that when it is hot people tend to go out and contact each other more often, which poses an additional risk factor

Not only that, but in hot weather people transpire more, too.

It was already known that the virus itself is very resistant to temperature. French scientists had to rise temperature almost to ebulition levels to kill it in laboratory conditions.

What may help, in isolation, is that in most First World countries summers are drier than winters, which would make the propagation of the virus more difficult as it is not transmissible by air. This theoretical benefit could be more than annulled by the fact people go out more and transpire more.

It is clear the virus doesn't care about temperatures at all. It is laying waste in Brazil; Brazil's State of Amazon (right into the equatorial zone, always hot) has seen its healthcare and funeral systems collapse. Amazon is hot - but it is extremely humid, so the virus is having a field day, even though the State has one of the lowest population densities in the world (4 per sqKm).

Posted by: vk | May 13 2020 18:14 utc | 22

@ 16 mina... not surprising - princess cruise ships are owned by a british-american corp - carnaval corporation and plc... they are the biggest and wealthiest... why is it they can't afford to pay to get their slave labourers back home and instead are content to let them die of causes like suicide and etc?? what does that say about this corporation, or the oversight bodies governing such corporations?? their stock price is presently back to 1995 levels... i hope they die but knowing how the system works, they will probably get a federal reserve bailout..

Posted by: james | May 13 2020 18:16 utc | 23

Minimum State? More like Maximum State:

Fed Chair Warns Economic Damage Could Be Permanent Unless Congress Acts

Jerome H. Powell, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, delivered a stark warning on Wednesday that the United States was facing an economic hit “without modern precedent,” one that could permanently damage the economy if Congress did not provide sufficient policy support to prevent a wave of bankruptcies and prolonged joblessness.

Posted by: vk | May 13 2020 18:37 utc | 24

While we are buried under the 'Rona, there is just as important news. Democratic Party may need to switch out the Biden horse.

Biden has been named in the Russiagate plot - He knew.

Unmasking The Unmaskers: Biden, Brennan, Clapper, & Powers Named In DNI Just-Released List


A list of Obama administration officials who participated in the 'unmasking' of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn has been released by Sens. Ron Johnson and Chuck Grassley. The names include former FBI Director James Comey, former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, and former Vice President Joe Biden.[.]

The revelation comes after Biden was caught trying to lie about his knowledge of the Flynn investigation during a Tuesday morning interview - changing course after host George Stephanopoulos pointed out his documented attendance at a January 5 Oval Office meeting in which key members of the Obama administration discussed the ongoing investigation into Flynn's intercepted contacts with the Russian ambassador.[.]

to be fair, Biden frequently displays bouts of "senior moments" -----

And before the unmasking details came to the light of day, Wall Street analyst, Charles Ortel asks 'The Biggest Political Crime': Does Obamagate Mean Treason, Sedition or Both?

Posted by: Likklemore | May 13 2020 19:46 utc | 25

Likklemore @25--

Trump violated his oath of office soon after he was sworn in; Obama did the same; as did GW Bush; as did Bill Clinton; as did GHW Bush. Do you see a pattern here? Not one POTUS has held the previous POTUS accountable for his crimes. Trump, members of his regime and allies within Congress have committed Treason with their Do Nothing policy in face of COVID-19 which is on its way to killing 100K citizens. (For some reason your link didn't work. This one ought to, and does.)

Has anyone considered that Obama might be providing political cover for Trump's treason by creating another distraction? Remember that despite all the theatre they're on the same team and work for the same Oligarchy.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 13 2020 20:34 utc | 26

James @ 23:

Unfortunately there are very few oversight or other regulation entities for the passenger cruise industry. The various subsidiary companies owned by Carnival Corporation usually register the ships in such countries like Liberia and Panama which need their money and have poor oversight legislation in areas such as worker health and safety and other areas relevant to COVID-19 discussion. Registering ships in Panama is a common practice throughout the shipping industry and the passenger cruise industry is a subset of that.

This helps to perpetuate a colonial hierarchy on ships including cruise ships where the officers and navigators are from First World nations, the technicians are from Third World nations like India where a sizeable percentage of people know English and can obtain some qualifications, and the people who work in the kitchens and clean cabins come from more desperately poor countries.

Posted by: Jen | May 13 2020 20:42 utc | 27

vk on hot weather - humidity seems to be the danger factor, as with tropical areas or pool situations, though perhaps the main factor would be crowds having fun in close proximity to one another. China did have a report stating most of their cases were in homes, so telling folk to closet themselves may not be exactly helpful.

karlof1, again thanks for the interview with Hua Chunying you posted previously. I was struck by the parallel time line between China and the US, that when the lockdown in Wuhan was already being lifted, the number of confirmed cases in the US was 400,000. Also by the focus in the interview on the universality in terms of world health of the health of each nation as a contributing factor to overall defeat of the virus. "...all countries share the same destiny. No country can guarantee its absolute security in public health alone until all countries are safe...what matters most is the life and safety of the people."

This is far different from the supposed sanctity of gated communities for the uber-rich. No-one is safe, rich or poor. Let that sink in. This virus will go where it can, and it can go anywhere eventually. It is that aggressive. The rich, having apparently lost their sense of compassion, may have to rely on self-preservation. For their own sakes they need everyone to be healthy!

Posted by: juliania | May 13 2020 20:52 utc | 28

Financial Matters @ 18:

Thanks for raising the issue of cytokine storms caused by COVID-19

In Australian MSM a current media obsession has been Kawasaki syndrome observed in children who have tested positive for COVID-19. Kawasaki syndrome refers to a suite of inflammatory symptoms in children's digestive systems. It seems possible that this syndrome is the child's immune response to the SARS-COV-2 virus working its way through the gut.

In 1918 young people in the West were generally less healthy than they are now and many of them were soldiers in various stages of recovery from injuries (some of them permanent) both physical and psychological. Young women were probably just as vulnerable for various reasons, perhaps being more malnourished than men, perhaps having worked as nurses in crowded and unsanitary conditions, and living in societies where it was common for women to have their first child in their late teens or early 20s before they were fully mature. One hundred years ago nutrition was still poorly understood and the hygiene practices we take for granted were either slowly being accepted or still regarded with suspicion or derision.

Posted by: Jen | May 13 2020 20:58 utc | 29

Posted by: juliania | May 13 2020 20:52 utc | 28

"China did have a report stating most of their cases were in homes, so telling folk to closet themselves may not be exactly helpful"

Italy also had the same problem...

Posted by: notlurking | May 13 2020 21:35 utc | 30

juliania @28--

Thanks for the above and previous replies. The previous days of fewer events that made responding easier are over for now. This op/ed makes similar points but is framed more as a warning:

"But now governments across the world are faced with the US as a centre of disease threatening the health of their country. There is also the prospect of the Americans resisting measures to block transport from the US which threatens to spread the virus."

"The implications are not only medical, but political. Any government failing to get coronavirus under control, due to US pressure, faces the threat of being destabilised by the social consequences. The emergence of the US as the main coronavirus disease centre in the world will therefore politically affect every country."

Posted by: karlof1 | May 13 2020 21:41 utc | 31

juliania @28--

Thanks for the above and previous replies. The previous days of fewer events that made responding easier are over for now. This op/ed makes similar points but is framed more as a warning:

"But now governments across the world are faced with the US as a centre of disease threatening the health of their country. There is also the prospect of the Americans resisting measures to block transport from the US which threatens to spread the virus."

"The implications are not only medical, but political. Any government failing to get coronavirus under control, due to US pressure, faces the threat of being destabilised by the social consequences. The emergence of the US as the main coronavirus disease centre in the world will therefore politically affect every country."

IMO, we've reached the point where the interests of us common folk demand the end of the federal government as it's currently constructed as it's captured in such a manner that we can't gain control. And it must be noted that the Media as currently constituted shares a lot of the responsibility for that happenstance. It's almost useless to analyze the situation anymore since we can't act of what our analysis tells us we must do to rectify the situation and make it right. Maybe Trump will finally pissoff the Militias so they realize they've been wrong all along and will incur their wrath. IMO, the Outlaw US Empire was born of violence and isn't going to change for the better peacefully.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 13 2020 21:50 utc | 32

@ 27 jen... it is true what you say.. in a fair world - not the corporate one we live in - this would be addressed immediately.. instead all the bozos who go on these cruise ships contribute to it.. i don't blame the workers or my friends who have played music on cruise ships.. i blame the general consumer who is oblivious to the pain they continue to inflict on others.. same deal with the mutual fund holders of stuff like this.. most people have no clue what their money is ''invested'' in... they are all unethical and immoral and oblivious to all of it... i would never go on a cruise ship, especially with all i know about how their business is run and the exploitative nature of the business... a day will come when this will all change.. it can't happen soon enough.. i hope their business literally sinks..

regarding princess cruises... "The company is incorporated in Bermuda and its headquarters are in Santa Clarita, California.[3] As of 2018, it is the second largest cruise line by net revenue.[1] It was previously a subsidiary of P&O Princess Cruises, and is currently under Holland America Group within Carnival Corporation & plc, which holds executive control over the Princess Cruises brand. The line has 18 ships cruising global itineraries that are marketed to both American and international passengers."

Posted by: james | May 13 2020 22:16 utc | 33

financial matters 18

China found early use of steroids gave poorer outcomes, but did use anti inflammatories after the virus had been eliminated. One of their early findings was that once the virus was eliminated, the immune system would continue attacking the body.
Cytokine storm seems the current or coroinavirus western fashionable phrase for the immune response.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 13 2020 22:17 utc | 34

Peter AU1 @ 33

I was referring to this paper in JAMA where the 5 critically ill patients who recovered were all on methylprednisolone.

A cytokine storm is actually a severe over reaction of the immune system.

Posted by: financial matters | May 13 2020 22:37 utc | 35

Here in BC racist attacks against people who look “east Asian” have risen sharply since the anti-China propaganda onslaught began. I have also noticed that my “right-wing” friends are buying into the “China threat” narrative in a big way. The CBC (a kind of low rent Canadian BBC), to my surprise, has kept the anti-China stuff toned down but a quick glance at the CBC News Channel (or whatever it’s called) showed a panel discussion about China “alienating” the world so they are fully on board. The truly pathetic CBC seems to be trying to play both sides at once (fake social consciousness on the main channel and yellow peril propaganda on its “news” network).

What I don’t get is how can people who see through the Russiagate nonsense be so gullible or naive (or stupid?) and buy into the anti China stuff. It reminds me of the “antiwar” people who suddenly became pro-war in 1999 (Yugoslavia bombing), 2003 (Iraq invasion), or 2013 (Syria proxy war) because “this time it’s different and Milosevic/Saddam/Assad are evil dudes and we have to protect civilians”. Maybe they cling on to the belief that part of the establishment can be trusted? Humans, what a bunch of weirdos we are. But I digress.

Posted by: Daniel | May 13 2020 23:28 utc | 36

James @ 32:

You may be interested in this article about the Ruby Princess, one of the ships operated by Princess Lines (owned by Carnival Corporation). The Ruby Princess is at the centre of a current criminal investigation into why a number of passengers were allowed to leave the ship in Sydney back in March despite the fact that their COVID-19 test results were still being processed. The company's conduct in allowing the disembarkation is at the centre of the investigation.

A choice section from the article:

... [In early April 2020], NSW Police Commissioner Mick Fuller said of the gathering cruise ships off the coast: "They don’t pay taxes in Australia, they don’t park their boats in Australia, their primary flags are often in the Caribbean in different islands. [It’s] time to go home."

Commissioner Fuller has since launched a criminal investigation into the 15 coronavirus deaths stemming from the Ruby Princess, after almost 2700 passengers were allowed to disembark the cruise ship without health checks on March 19. It has been docked at Port Kembla since Monday.

Australian Border Force boss Michael Outram is overseeing a push to remove foreign cruise ships from local waters, emphasising the risk that "it’s a big strain on the Australian health system."

Professor Joseph Cheer from the Centre for Tourism Research at Japan’s Wakayama University said cruise ships were often registered in countries with favourable tax regimes, known as "flags of convenience".

The Ruby Princess, registered in tax haven Bermuda, appears to be one such ship. Professor Cheer said cruise companies paid "very little tax" in Australia.

"If I bought a cruise holiday my payment doesn’t end up with the Australian company, it gets paid into the account based in the Bahamas or Panama," he said.

"Which is why they’re able to offer a cheaper holiday, because they don’t have the same obligations that other tourism organisations in Australia would have."

While Carnival has pointed to figures which show the cruising industry injects $2.9 billion into the Australian economy and generates 18,000 jobs, Professor Cheer said it was in the interests of cruise companies to keep people spending their money on the ship rather than the shore.

Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund last week emerged with an 8 per cent stake in Carnival Corporation & PLC after a $US6 billion emergency recapitalisation due to the coronavirus.

Places that are tax havens are also very often places where worker health and safety regulations are very lax.

Posted by: Jen | May 14 2020 0:07 utc | 37

Posted by: financial matters | May 13 2020 17:40 utc | 18 Some good treatment updates by Paul Marik, MD, Chief of Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine, Eastern Virginia Medical School, Norfolk, VA (hat tip RSH)

Thanks for that.

B - sorry about being long-winded! Will try to hold it down.

Part of the post b cut was info on the Frontline COVID-19 Critical Care Working Group which includes the author of the EVMS Protocol. I recommend checking it out. Their MATH+ Protocol is based on using intravenous corticosteroids and massive amounts of Vitamin-C to treat the inflammation which they allege is the primary cause of the cytokine storms and blood clots that are the actually killing mechanism of the virus. They also recommend minimizing intubation in favor of progressive steps at applying oxygen to counter the "pseudo-ARDS" the virus causes.

I would like to see some actual numbers of how many of their patients have had positive outcomes and a control group and statistical analysis because otherwise this suffers from the same problem as HCQ - not enough proof that early stage patients would not have recovered on their own. If one is pushing an early stage treatment, this is what has to be proven.

Their Web site is here:

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 14 2020 0:31 utc | 38

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 13 2020 22:17 utc | 33 China found early use of steroids gave poorer outcomes, but did use anti inflammatories after the virus had been eliminated.

I just read some of the early papers by Chinese from February and April. The assessment on steroids was contradictory. One paper said it was useless - but based on an extremely low patient counts (31). Others said there was a couple papers that said it worked to some degree.

This paper, which was cited by the FLCCC Web site, suggests it depends on *when*, i.e., at what stage of disease progression, the steroids are administered.

PulmCrit- Timed & titrated use of steroid in COVID-19?

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 14 2020 0:45 utc | 39

I once held that the democracies won wwII because, ‘in time of war, they get actual serious leaders’. That synopsis satisfied me for a number of years, until i felt forced to tweek: Democracies only get good leadership in time of REAL WAR, othertimes, its all a gambling pit, construed to freward the rich and powerful. We can tell the powers in the US don’t consider the cv19 as a real war. Consider the so called ‘leaders’ who have stepped up to lead the nation through the double whammy of pandemic plus greatest depression. Trump and Biden. One can only remark ‘they can’t be serious!’

They aren’t.

Posted by: James joseph | May 14 2020 0:50 utc | 40

Posted by: William Gruff | May 13 2020 16:54 utc | 12 Once people end up in the hospital then it is too late for that treatment.

I don't think it's so much ending up in the hospital as it is the degree of disease progression in terms of hypoxia. What I've seen doctors say is that you go to the hospital when you have "shortness of breath", but they don't actually do much for you until that "shortness" is such that you can't walk to the john. That's too late, apparently.

The EVMS/FLCCC people say their treatment needs to start within *six hours* of admission to the hospital - before extreme shortness of breath. They recommend people use a pulse oxymeter at home and go to the hospital when it shows less than 94%.

"if low daily doses of quinine and zinc increase resistance to infection."

That's exactly what the EVMS/FLCCC people recommend for home treatment of mild cases and for "floor treatment" in the hospital (i.e., before going to ICU in later stages.) Read the protocol document linked elsewhere here for their precise recommendations.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 14 2020 0:54 utc | 41

The us of last 30-40 years reminds me of Troy.
We have Ross Perot, walking the streets of Troy, ‘Beware, Chinese bearing gifts!’ ...and his premonition was correct.
We have the trojan horse of oligarchs, packing up their factories, and off to china. Ew have the political elite bought and sold. They passed bills entirely written bqy their oligarch backers.
So Troy is lost to the people of Troy. They are taken into slavery, while the riches they had struggled for over so many years ......stipped and carried off. The roads and bridges deteriorate, foreign goods are priced beyond the middle class.....
( more in time....)

Posted by: James joseph | May 14 2020 1:06 utc | 42

Richard Steven Hack @ 38:

I have to say that studies of the kind you advocate using samples of patients in the early stage of COVID-19, in which some patients are given the HCQ treatment (including azithromycin, zinc and Vitamin C) and some are not, would be difficult to carry out.

For one thing, for many if not most people, the early stage of COVID-19 may be entirely asymptomatic. By the time they develop symptoms, they are already past the stage where HCQ would benefit them at all. You would have to capture those people as soon as they test positive, or even before.

Secondly very few COVID-19 patients in the early stage of the disease would agree to be part of a control group and not receive HCQ treratment or any treatment and just wait out the disease on their own, especially if the samples are controlled for age and all the people participating in the studies are in the high-risk age demographic groups.

There are surely ethics issues involved in such studies and many if not most researchers would refuse to carry out studies in which a control group of COVID-19 patients would be asked or required to give up any treatment at all and just be expected to recover on their own. Would such patients consent to be part of a control group and risk their lives?

The design of the study becomes crucial in experiments that involve COVID-19 because of the peculiar characteristics of this disease.

Posted by: Jen | May 14 2020 1:27 utc | 43

karlof1 @ 26

My good friend in this Flynn matter we are heading for a judicial crisis:

US Federal Judge Considers Holding Ex-Trump Adviser Flynn in Contempt, Despite DoJ Dismissal Attempt LINK

and just in:

In Stunning Move, Flynn Judge Appoints Gotti Prosecutor To Argue Against DOJ Dismissal


The judge in the Michael Flynn case has gone full activist - refusing to dismiss the case after the Department of Justice requested to drop charges so that an outside party could file an opposition briefing known as a "friend-of-the-court", or "amicus" briefing.

Today, Judge Emmet Sullivan took things one step further, appointing former Gotti prosecutor and judge, John Gleeson, to argue against the dismissal and to determine whether Flynn should be held in contempt for perjury.{.}
To the casual observer, between Flynn's first legal team (from Eric Holder's law firm) and Judge Sullivan exposing himself with these bizarre 11th hour decisions, one could reasonably conclude that the fix was in on Flynn, until he swapped legal teams and Trump found an Attorney General with a spine.

Sullivan wishes to be de-benched. Sullivan is covering Obama's ass. You just cannot overlook prosecutorial misdeeds. Wait for Sidney Powell.
I am with Toensing's tweet: Does Judge Sullivan read SupCt decisions? Last week SupCt held using amici was “drastic departure” and “abuse of discretion.” Why amici for @GenFlynn now when Judge refused Flynn friends amici 24 times. Judge shld be removed from case...then from Bench. #obamagate #maga

Posted by: Likklemore | May 14 2020 1:36 utc | 44

I Feel Strongly': Trump Says US Should Implement Negative Interest Rates

US President Donald Trump on Wednesday reiterated his support for the nation's Federal Reserve to adopt negative interest rates - a move that has been opposed by Fed Chair Jerome Powell.

“I know there are fans of the policy, but for now it’s not something that we’re considering,” Powell noted, as reported by CNBC. “We think we have a good toolkit, and that’s the one that we will be using."[.]

Incredible. Whose idea is this? Jared or Kudlow? Negative rates! Watch gold gallop to USD$3,000. Why will anyone hold USTs at negative rates? There goes the dollar reserve currency status; especially in the current anti-China added incentive not to hold.

"Popular opinion is that since America controls its own currency and able to borrow to infinity, they can always print more money to solve their financing problem. To date, foreigners have financed up to a third of America’s debt but given an “America First” stance and the current climate of “beggar thy neighbor” policies, America’s creditors, specifically, China is not so anxious to finance America given the new Cold War and when the level of trust between the superpowers are at an all time low…" - John Ing.

Posted by: Likklemore | May 14 2020 1:57 utc | 45

Jen 43 "Secondly very few COVID-19 patients in the early stage of the disease would agree to be part of a control group and not receive HCQ treratment or any treatment and just wait out the disease on their own,"

One of the US pharmaceutical companies tried to run a trial in China but found a lack of volunteers for just that reason. I think it was a trial for remdesivir.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 14 2020 2:00 utc | 46

James joseph

US is nothing like Troy. More akin to the Trojans with blowback. US sent in their Trojan thinking that would conquer China. Read the shit the US put out at the time. They were gonna defeat China with big macs and jeans.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 14 2020 2:04 utc | 47

Peter AU 1 @ 46:

I was thinking also of instances in the past where a treatment given to experimental groups of people was so effective that the study had to be stopped because denying that treatment to the control group would have been unethical. Can't think of any particular study where researchers were put in such a bind but I believe there have been studies done on various cancers where the studies were cut short because of this dilemma. The treatments did not necessarily cure the cancers but had some other positive effects like making the cancers less aggressive, mitigating symptoms or improving patients' quality of life. Studies on improving nutrition or diet, reducing risks for heart-related conditions or reducing obesity have involved similar dilemmas.

You may heard of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment done in the US where a group of mostly poor black American sharecropper farmers was denied syphilis treatment and the experiment was continued for much longer (30 years?) than it should have been after penicillin was found to be an effective treatment for the disease. The control group should have been offered penicillin and the study stopped there and then.

Posted by: Jen | May 14 2020 2:27 utc | 48

@36 jen... well they have some brighter politicians in australia then they do in canada!!! smart move.. i hope they succeed in banning the cruise ships into australia.. italy - venice in particular - would be well advised to do the same... same here on vancouver island... they should pay their way or not be allowed into other countries.. give the labourers proper pay and etc. they are another byproduct of the stock market and corporate culture.. it is very ugly...

Posted by: james | May 14 2020 2:50 utc | 49

Pft 48

What are you crapping on about. Is it in relation to my comment @46.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 14 2020 2:58 utc | 50

Joe Biden fell asleep during his town hall with Hillary Clinton. To be fair, everyone else watching was also asleep.

Posted by: Mao | May 14 2020 3:11 utc | 51

james 50

The various five eyes are just different shades of black. I think five eyes are now decoupling from China as drawing China into the US 'rules based' world backfired. Boris the clown in UK is a bit of a wild card but there are none in oz. The politicians that count here are firmly five eyes.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 14 2020 3:34 utc | 52

@ 53 peter... i think canada is stuck in this 5 eyes bullshit for the present as well... crystia freeland - a soros backed neoliberal neocon is aiming for the pms job.. that has been obvious to anyone from day 1... you know it is the politically correct thing because she is a she and all the crap... sometimes i resent what i see unfolding and wish that people would wake up, but it seems they have to be clobbered over the head really really hard, to wake up... it hasn't happened yet here in canada...

Posted by: james | May 14 2020 4:05 utc | 53

I am sure that many others have noticed this difference. China when confronted with this covid-19 crisis reacted as China could. They mostly stamped it out. The US when confronted with the same crisis, even given a month advance notice, failed miserably.

This comparison shows beyond doubt the US is NOT the most exceptional nation on earth. In fact, it shows that the US is seriously flawed. That conclusion is totally obvious and it should be to the rest of the world. Given these obvious facts it only stands to reason that the US government will have to create some crazy conspiracy theories to attempt to deflect blame for its own incompetence onto someone else. Thus we have the anti-China propaganda campaign going on right now.

I do think, though, that most thinking people on this planet are not going to fall for this latest US propaganda effort. We will see.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 14 2020 4:37 utc | 54

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 14 2020 3:34 utc | 53

Yeah sure, chestbeating Australia can decouple from China all they want, when their industrial sector is so laughably pathetic that they have to put import tariffs on steel not only from major industrial nations like China and SK but also fucking Singapore out of all places.

Posted by: JW | May 14 2020 5:42 utc | 55

EU sponsoring forced labor in Eritrea with millions of euros. As if they did not know that Eritreans have been for a decade or more among the most likely people to seek asylum anywhere.

Posted by: Mina | May 14 2020 9:35 utc | 56

This blog has a large comments section, a reflection of its success, excellence, and popularity. However, it is hard to read all these comments in the current list form. This blog might want to consider presenting the comments in tree form, as is done with blogs like Naked Capitalism. I find this a more readable format myself. Thanks for you efforts.

Posted by: Edward | May 14 2020 11:55 utc | 57

I remember Max Keiser speaking of negative interest rates indicating that the future had no value....that being several months ago and prior to the virus becoming the topic and the agency by which the ordinary people are forbidden to protest...indeed, Max seems to have said it...and here we are in zerovaluelandia.

It's a Schrodinger Moment, when nothing is illegal, and everything is illegal, nothing in permitted, and everything is permitted, everything has value, and nothing has value...

Wally does not expect such a State of Exception to last very long.

The Muleskinner's Inn down on Main and Walnut here in Anoxia announced they'd open in "defiance of the Order..." And did so with a crowd of fat cowboys and their fat wives... And then the cops "cited" the owner...and they closed.

Wally would like to know what Statute is cited...

He'd especially like to listen in the Courtroom when that goes to Trial...

Posted by: Walter | May 14 2020 12:39 utc | 58

Mike Pence caught on hot mic delivering empty boxes of PPE for a PR stunt.

Posted by: Mao | May 14 2020 14:02 utc | 59

Caitlin Johnstone has a new article "Biden Can’t Return Things To Normal, Because Trump Is A Normal US President. That’s The Problem." One of her best in my opinion.

Posted by: spudski | May 14 2020 14:23 utc | 60

JOE BIDEN: “The pandemic is that this President has no intercourse whatsoever with the rest of the world.”

Posted by: Mao | May 14 2020 15:07 utc | 61

It is clear the virus doesn't care about temperatures at all. vk

yes, though i thought mmm about the meat treatment plants, which are very cold, that perhaps temp. played a role. but then i realised they are also very noisy (the machinery etc.) and ppl in there are in close proximity shouting at each other. just like the choirs, though the sonoric output is not of the same quality! - ex. of choir clusters, there are quite a few.

temperature, on a v. gross rough world scale, correlates at least somewhat with the inhabited, also rich, much travelled (plane travel) world (USA -Europe - parts of Asia..) and this perhaps threw ppl off. or they were just thinking ‘flu is winter not summer’..

Posted by: Noirette | May 14 2020 16:09 utc | 62

A small part of the 5 eyes delusion apparatus. A mix of facts and spin. A history of broadcaster/interviewer Kathryn Ryan's contacts and grooming would be interesting ... She seems to be a very active participant in spreading the message.

Kilcullen attempts to resell the Russian US 2016 election meddling story with his "liminal warfare" theory.

In his latest book, 'The Dragons and the Snakes: How the Rest Learned to Fight the West', modern warfare expert, David Kilcullen has put forward a theory of how state threats, (like Russia and China) and non-state threats (like terrorist organisations) now overlap and intersect. What's more, they've learnt from each other, enabling them to out manoeuvre conventional military tactics, with new methods like political manipulation and cyber militias.

David Kilcullen, was a senior counterinsurgency adviser to General David Petraeus during 2007 'surge' in Iraq and counterinsurgency adviser to the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan. He was previously an infantry officer in the Australian army for 22 years.

Posted by: tucenz | May 14 2020 16:15 utc | 63

Likklemore @44--

It's been awhile since I read Techno_Fog's Twitter for updates on the Flynn Affair, but I just visited after reading your @44 and think it's worth going through as there's quite a lot of entries over the past 24 hours, a bunch on May 12, and this retweet on May 11:

"James Clapper, who could end up as a prime suspect in John Durham's hunt for the illegal leaker of the Flynn-Kislyak calls, says he never briefed Obama about them ahead of a key Oval Office meeting. But both McCabe and Comey said Clapper did. Who's lying?"

IMO, they're all lying and ought to be prosecuted. As usual, lots happening using COVID-19 as a Media Screen. Whoever's pulling judge Sullivan's strings IMO has made a big mistake, which with luck will be in the favor of us little folk.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 14 2020 16:59 utc | 64

>The design of the study becomes crucial in experiments that
>involve COVID-19 because of the peculiar characteristics of this disease.
>Posted by: Jen | May 14 2020 1:27 utc | 43

One possible solution is to design a "dose-ranging study", also known as "dose-response study", and omit the placebo cohort. From Wiki:

Typically a dose ranging study will include a placebo group of subjects, and a few groups that receive different doses of the test drug. For instance, a typical dose-ranging study may include four groups: a placebo group, low-dose group, medium-dose group and a high-dose group.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | May 14 2020 17:57 utc | 65

Looks like Sanofi has deeper ties with American capital than the hydroxycloroquine "happy coincidence" euphoria episode:

French pharma chief backtracks after promise Covid-19 vaccine will reach American patients first sparks ire

Sanofi's involvement in this pandemic is getting more and more complex. There's something rotten in France - and no, I'm not talking about the cheese.

Posted by: vk | May 14 2020 18:23 utc | 66

karlof1 @ 64

I posted on another thread Obama was in on the plot to frame Flynn Biden too

Today Flynn's Attorney, Sidney Powell responded to Obama's criticism of the DOJ dropping the case. Powell lays down a yuuuge rebuke.


a snippet from 3 pages of rebuke -

To: Barack Hussein Obama
From: Sidney Powell

Date: May 13, 2020

Re: Your Failure to Find Precedent for Flynn Dismissal

Regarding the decision of the Department of Justice to dismiss charges against General Flynn, in your recent call with your alumni, you expressed great concern: “there is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who has been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free. That’s the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic — not just institutional norms — but our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk.”

Here is some help—if truth and precedent represent your true concern. Your statement is entirely false. However, it does explain the damage to the Rule of Law throughout your administration.

First, General Flynn was not charged with perjury—which requires a material false statement made under oath with intent to deceive.1 A perjury prosecution would have been appropriate and the Rule of Law applied if the Justice Department prosecuted your former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe for his multiple lies under oath in an investigation of a leak only he knew he caused.

McCabe lied under oath in fully recorded and transcribed interviews with the Inspector General for the DOJ. He was informed of the purpose of the interview, and he had had the benefit of counsel. He knew he was the leaker. McCabe even lied about lying. He lied to his own agents—which sent them on a “wild-goose-chase”—thereby making his lies “material” and an obstruction of justice. Yet, remarkably, Attorney General Barr declined to prosecute McCabe for these offenses.

Applying the Rule of Law, after declining McCabe’s perjury prosecution, required the Justice Department to dismiss the prosecution of General Flynn who was not warned, not under oath, had no counsel, and whose statements were not only not recorded, but were created as false by FBI agents who falsified the 302.

Second, it would seem your “wingman” Eric Holder is missing a step these days at Covington & Burling LLP. Indelibly marked in his memory (and one might think, yours) should be his Motion to Dismiss the multi-count jury verdict of guilty and the entire case against former United States Senator Ted Stevens. Within weeks of Mr. Holder becoming Attorney General, he moved to dismiss the Stevens prosecution in the interest of justice for the same reasons the Justice Department did against General Flynn—egregious misconduct by prosecutors who hid exculpatory evidence and concocted purported crimes.[.]

and the Footnote 1: Powell schools Obama -

As a “constitutional lawyer,” surely you recall that perjury (or false statements) also requires intent to deceive. In Bronston v. United States, 409 U.S. 352 (1973), the Supreme Court reversed a conviction of perjury. In Bronston, the defendant’s answer was a truthful statement, but not directly responsive to the question and ultimately misled federal authorities. The Court determined: “A jury should not be permitted to engage in conjecture whether an unresponsive answer, true and complete on its face, was intended to mislead or divert the examiner; the state of mind of the witness is relevant only to the extent that it bears on whether “he does not believe [his answer] to be true.” To hold otherwise would be to inject a new and confusing element into the adversary testimonial system we know.” Id. at 359. The FBI agents who interviewed General Flynn specifically noted that his answers were true or he believed his answers to be true—completely defeating criminal intent. Furthermore, General Flynn knew and remarked they had transcripts of his conversations.

This gang, including the judge, have no understanding who they are up against. Powell is a brilliant Attorney. When she is done, John Durham's inquiry will end with bringing indictments.

Posted by: Likklemore | May 15 2020 2:11 utc | 67

A must read

Sidney Powell (Gen. Michael Flynn's lawyer): Open Memorandum to Barrack Obama.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 15 2020 2:18 utc | 68

Get ready for the Hothouse COV generation. What do you suppose will happen when hot 15 to 25 year old boys and girls get 'locked down' together in little rooms for a couple months? Come January there will be a sudden outburst of unexpected humanity!

Posted by: blues | May 15 2020 2:24 utc | 69

Ray McGovern got a subpoena...the matter of the thumb-drive "SR" handed off in the park not very long before "somebody" made certain arrangements. It's also obvious to whom he handed it.

Julian nodded at the question in a interview. > was it "SR" that is the source? nodnodnodnod... perfectly clear.

Anyway, off to read Brother Ray? see tinyurl[dot]com/ybfs7ptd

Posted by: Walter | May 15 2020 3:18 utc | 70

This might interest some, and especially, I think, Herr 'b'

"The anatomy of a STRATCOM disinfographic" "United States Strategic Command, the branch of the US military responsible for the nation’s nuclear weapons, recently released an imperially misleading infographic on Twitter. The graphic is confused—not only about when to use bold typeface, but also about the facts...."


Geewhiz, I wonder why they would do such a thing. Another coincidence perhaps...

Posted by: Walter | May 15 2020 4:49 utc | 71

There is something else brewing in India, supposedly largest democracy in the world. No doubt prodded by external influence, modi's unnecessary lockdown is practically bankrupting the nation. Now comes opinion price
Setting stage for gold sales.

Posted by: Rao | May 15 2020 9:14 utc | 72

125 kids in France, mainly Paris area, have contracted Kawasaki and K-like syndroms, between 1st March and 11 May.1 eight-y old is dead. The peak seems to have been observed mid-April. Could it be related to the more lethal strain?

Posted by: Mina | May 15 2020 10:08 utc | 73

And in Yemen's south, where soldiers and humanitarians of all corners have been going in and out....
No more elderly, no more expensive wars... Welcome to the brave new world.

Posted by: Mina | May 15 2020 10:14 utc | 74

From the BBC and more available in the Belgian press: "Researchers say Belgium has seen its highest April mortality rate since World War Two. The team at Vrije Universiteit Brussel say the southern city of Mons and Brussels itself were hit particularly hard."

EU and NATO headquarters. Why don't they ask Trump how to sue than and get juicy compensations?

Posted by: Mina | May 15 2020 10:56 utc | 75

Study shows roughly 25% of Manchester is Covid-19 infected. This equates to an IFR (infection fatality rate) of 0.20%

So, lockdown enthusiasts need to pseudo-debunk another set of professionally developed statistics.

Posted by: fairleft | May 15 2020 11:15 utc | 76

Sorry, that should say 25% of UK, not just Manchester.

Posted by: fairleft | May 15 2020 11:16 utc | 77

What may help, in isolation, is that in most First World countries summers are drier than winters, which would make the propagation of the virus more difficult as it is not transmissible by air. This theoretical benefit could be more than annulled by the fact people go out more and transpire more.

It is clear the virus doesn't care about temperatures at all. It is laying waste in Brazil; Brazil's State of Amazon (right into the equatorial zone, always hot) has seen its healthcare and funeral systems collapse. Amazon is hot - but it is extremely humid, so the virus is having a field day, even though the State has one of the lowest population densities in the world (4 per sqKm).

Posted by: vk | May 13 2020 18:14 utc | 22

So much of the above contradicts the science on Covid-19. In fact rising temperatures do slow the virus, most scientists say. And actually humidity slows the virus while dry air allows it to spread further. I recommend reading the following:

According to the quoted scientists, summer temperatures will slow (how much is not clear) but certainly not stop the virus. And remember that in hot humid places a lot of people spend a lot of time in indoor air-conditioned spaces. It's a complicated multi-factor situation. Black/white conclusions are unecessarily pessimistic or optimistic.

Posted by: fairleft | May 15 2020 11:35 utc | 78

Mina | May 15 2020 10:56 utc | 75 (Belgium W2 deaths.)

Based on the total civilian and military deaths in 6 years and a day of official ww2, the average daily deaths run to something approximating 33 thousand deaths per day, according to my arithmetic.

Of course the number of persons "available" in w2, available for dying, was far smaller.

Thus, if we-all are in WW3 (which may be, some say) the daily dying number would have to also be much bigger now, eh?

Wally might bet on the number, if he trusted the suits, which he does not.

Posted by: Walter | May 15 2020 11:39 utc | 79

Walter, not that I am really good at maths, but it is only the April death rate for Belgium. And it is "since" WW2, i.e. probably since 1945, meaning they would have started to keep the statistics from then on?
Lots of MSM articles have been questioning the fact that Belgium has the highest mortality rate per million in Europe. No mention of EU and NATO headquarters in these articles.

Posted by: Mina | May 15 2020 13:20 utc | 80

@fairleft @76/77

So, lockdown enthusiasts need to pseudo-debunk another set of professionally developed statistics.

That Manchester study ( has two main authors from a consultant company called Res Consortium (
Dr Mark Davies: Previous experience working in the marketing sector
Mike Stedman: Previously supply chain director for large FMCG company
Plus a few medics who read the study.
Seems no epidemiologist among them.

The math used is totally inappropriate.
The conclusions are bunk.

Posted by: b | May 15 2020 13:44 utc | 81

Mina | May 15 2020 13:20 utc | 80 Yes. I understand.

The idea I suggest is that since it seems, and the Phatkatz in DC say, that we are ("at war") in WW3, and since the death in ww2 exceeded the death of ww1, we perhaps may expect the jolly prospect of yet another proportionally larger death.

Since, some say, the cv bug is, whatever the origin or original plan, now "weaponized" in the Political and also Strategic realms, we ought to recon the WW3 overall cumulative death from the virus in the total WW3 calculations we make when WW3 ends.

In 1939 global population count was roughly 2 billion persons. WW2 sucked up about 85 million people (wiki)

Now, it is said, roughly 7.8 billion persons. Some 4 X 1939.

Wally reasonably, but of course with little certainty, expects more than 340 millions will die in WW3, many of course from disease.

Posted by: Walter | May 15 2020 13:52 utc | 82

Walter, I don't think these kind of stats shld be applied evenly to all corners. Countries with a lighter population density (think Australia, Slovakia) have had very small figures for mortality.
Countries with the highest numbers of expats/frequent travelers per m2 are taking the highest toll.I also believe like Noirette that there might be something with air circuits (legionella-type viruses). Singapore had to evacuate buildings very early in the crisis (end of January? February?).

Posted by: Mina | May 15 2020 14:00 utc | 83

Mina | May 15 2020 14:00 utc | 83 Of course, I agree. The local death figures are heterogeneous now, as they were in WW2.

Posted by: Walter | May 15 2020 14:37 utc | 84

EU and NATO headquarters. Why don't they ask Trump how to sue than and get juicy compensations?
Posted by: Mina | May 15 2020 10:56 utc | 75

NATO headquarters presumably has quite a few military types from quite a few different countries. Perhaps it should be asked how many of them participated in the international military games in Wuhan in October? After all, it is known that 6 US participants were suddenly and urgently evacuated due to some unidentified serious infection. It is also known that the US refused to answer Chinese (i.e. host) requests for information what they were infected with, which is rather impolite and uncooperative to say the least. Is it of paramount risk to US national security to disclose what infection the 6 participants might have transmitted to the host country before their evacuation? Or, is it of paramount importance to Chinese national security to know what infection the 6 might have transmitted to the host country?

Presumably participants from other countries taking part in the games in Wuhan are likely to have caught it from the infected US participants. It is also known that many (10 if I remember correctly) staff members of the hotel where the Americans stayed got infected - might be connected, one would think.

If one were to plot all the most serious clusters of Covid infections around the world, and in each case measure the distance to the nearest US/NATO military base, would there be any correlation between the size of the cluster and the distance to the base?

Posted by: BM | May 15 2020 14:54 utc | 85

@ lozion, jen and others - article that i read that relates to some of what jen was saying about those affected by covid in sweden... same deal in montreal..

COVID-19's devastating toll on families in Montreal's poorest neighbourhoods

Posted by: james | May 15 2020 15:01 utc | 86

To correlate the toll among the poor with the frequent travelers ones, think about who is cleaning the offices at dawn. Not to say that the poor don't have a weakened immunity largely caused by cheap industrial food.

Posted by: Mina | May 15 2020 15:32 utc | 87

Sputnik reports that Iran has dispatched 5 tankers en-route to Venezuela...gee, the US navy may be ordered to stop them...ya tink?

It's a sure bet they'll try, but unclear how resolute US surface ship captains will decide to be...since they are essentially targets acting like pirates.

Wally remembers the Caribbean Crises of Soviet Missiles in Cuba, and the fact that we all missed dying by one vote on a Soviet Submarine...and another one vote on Okinawa, and of course the jolly time of Bay of Pigs - when again one vote (Kennedy's vote) prevented the invasion of Cuba.

(Wally also remembers the 1950 + Korean war)

sputnik story> tinyurl[dot]com/yal9bo8d


In war-time past some surface merchant ships carried cannon and marines to man the guns... Wally wonders if Iranian marines might be onboard those tankers, and, if there are Iranian marines on board those tankers, what weapons they might carry...he also has thoughts about coastal batteries in V, and submarines of Chine and Gospodin Ivan...

They seem to be sailing into a confrontation at sea.

Posted by: Walter | May 15 2020 16:25 utc | 88

@ 87 mina... that is a good way to put it..

@ 88 walter - that story has been developing the past 3 or 4 days...

"BEIRUT, LEBANON (12:30 P.M.) – A senior official the Trump administration told Reuters on Thursday that the United States is considering measures that it can take in response to a fuel shipment that Iran is sending to crisis-stricken Venezuela.

The official, who asked not to be named, said that Washington is “with a great degree of certainty” that the government of Venezuelan President Nicholas Maduro pays Iran with tons of gold."

US considers taking measures against Iranian ships heading to Venezuela

Posted by: james | May 15 2020 16:50 utc | 89

Likklemore #25

It is abundantly clear to me that the entire Biden campaign (and Sanders cooperation) is to present Joe Biden as being a senior moment write off and therefor unable to be fairly prosecuted for treason etc.

That being the case, one might ask 'what does Joe and his family of carpetbaggers know'? How many millions has he filched from USA loans to foreign countries and washed through Delaware? How much of thosed washed dollars ended in the DNC coffers?

I am sure there are many associated questions to consider but this farce should end. FU Bernie Sanders you went beyond making a strategic decision to a betrayal of millions of people. All for an Rsole like Joe.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 15 2020 16:55 utc | 90

Likklemore @67--

Thanks for that!! What an excellent skewering. One wonders what she'd write about Obama's refusal to indict the fraudulent banksters in 2009 for it was certainly obstruction of justice at least, treason at worst.

IMO, we need to start using the Treason Card when the general interests of the USA's populace is worked against as with 2009, 2019, 2020, 2016, and virtually every year the MIC gets its unwarranted Hundreds of Billions. IMO, the gloves must come off in this Class War as the Enemy is oh so clearly Domestic.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 15 2020 17:53 utc | 91

Read this morning, if I do not recall bad at Sputnik, that Rostneft withdraws from Venezuela, selling all its assests in the Caribbean country.

This is Rostneft bending under presure of US sanctions.

For the Russians to understand and thus shut up when European countries with no such military and economic might and even more tied to the US through the monetary system bed under the same presure to do things they otherwise would not do, at least at own initiative..

With this I am not promoting bending under US presure in any way, only to put on notice that you can not champion a self-awarded principled stance when you are not either capable to hold to your principles be it rain or thunder, as happens to so many others....

Posted by: H.Schmatz | May 15 2020 18:00 utc | 92

Likklemore #67

When she is done, John Durham's inquiry will end with bringing indictments.

Thank you Likklemore. Sidney Powell is brilliant and clearly committed but ultimately she is up against Barr, Trumps wasted years with the deep state moron as AG, and, in a few months another president and congress and senate. Time will tell whether Durham will produce anything other than recommendations to prosecute.

Me, I would not trust Barr any more than his predecessor.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 15 2020 21:25 utc | 93

Sidney Powell is brilliant and clearly committed but ultimately she is up against Barr,[.]

uncle tungsten | May 15 2020 21:25 utc | 93.

You're very welcome uncle T.

It was Barr who took the initiative to drop the DOJ case against Flynn and he is getting flack from the left for doing so because dropping the Flynn case further exposes the deep rot, and prosecutorial misdeeds which matters not to Russiagate promoters.

Barr had no choice. Powell had him by the "petite" hairs. [in the construction industry, that's called "girl power"]

As I referenced, Powell's detailing the rotten ambush, the plot to frame Flynn and applicable laws, case precedents now puts Durham's investigation on notice.
Oh, judge Sullivan should tread carefully. Legal scholars on the left sees his attempts to delay, to question the DOJ's dismissal as being "highly, highly out-of-bounds."

Stay tuned.

Posted by: Likklemore | May 15 2020 23:18 utc | 94

H.Schmatz @ 92 Hello, Rosneft have sold their stake in Venezuelan oil to a company wholly owned by the Russian Government. I remember the original announcement in March of this year, but I won't be posting any links. I have no desire to send the board into a "loooong" script. The US sanctions only delayed nordstream 2. An alternative method was found. IMO I think the Russian Government has this covered. I'm sure we will hear soon.

Posted by: jasmin | May 16 2020 0:59 utc | 95

@98 james. Txs for the link. Montreal is catastrophic and with hindsight am I glad I did not take the specially arranged flights out of Morocco for Montreal in March. Here the numbers are quite good: 6652 confirmed cases with half that number for remissions and only 190 fatalities out of a total population of 36 millions. Monday we will know what the deconfinement strategy will be.. How is Vanc Island doing?

Posted by: Lozion | May 16 2020 2:43 utc | 96

That should read @86 not 98..

Posted by: Lozion | May 16 2020 2:44 utc | 97

@ 97 lozion... was out all day at a recording session... the session went well! i think they only have about 110 cases of covid on vancouver island... all is good.. thanks for asking and safe trip hoome when you make it home!

Posted by: james | May 16 2020 3:28 utc | 98

Richard Silverstein still a Zionist affiliated with a non-existent interpretation of Zionism and on the path of Recovering Zionist (snark!) has some pretty good articles advancing the theory that Israel meddled in the U.S. election of Donald J. Trump.

In other words, Trump is the Chosen One, as I stated from day one.

But now can Silverstein investigate how many Members of Congress are on the Zionist payroll and what roll Israel played in their election and how all this really defines what Zionism stands for (hint: Power) aside from a desert state for Jews to worship in, I mean a golden calf to worship and commit crimes against the Occupied in?

So let's keep on pretending that under that pile of manure one day he'll find a pony.

Posted by: Circe | May 16 2020 9:52 utc | 99

@94 Likklemore

Okay, so now that you've cleared Flynn of Russia collusion can you admit he's been in cahoots with Netanyahoo, and doing Zionist bidding on Palestine and Iran and Russia was merely a sideshow distraction and this is the real reason Flynn's getting a pass?

Russia-Israel Israel-Russia COMMON GOAL: DJT Chosen One.

Maybe that's why Netanyahoo visits Putin so often and why Putin attends stupid ceremonies in Israel dignifying them, stolen land and Zionist Russian squatters with his presence.

Here's what happened after Putin got involved in Syria: Israel repeatedly bombed Syrian and Iranian forces, Trump officially turned over the Golan Heights to Israel and the U.S. took over Syria's oil fields.

Yuck! Who's side is Putin really on?

Posted by: Circe | May 16 2020 10:30 utc | 100

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