Blue Dotterel @3–
Yes, you are 100% correct! And while working on your own government, you also need to keep the Outlaw US Empire away from your government and out of your nation–hard to do if your a part of NATO.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 15 2020 18:22 utc | 3

French cats know better: a family who were all infected with covid apparently passed it to their cat. The poor animal was coughing for days, not responding to initial treatment for that, and unable to move until the vet decide to have it tested, and further analysis revealed covid. It was cured with corticosteroids (I summarize the radio info, not all in the link)
https://www.ladepeche.fr/2020/05/12/toulouse-un-chat-controle-positif-au-coronavirus-par-les-veterinaires-le-deuxieme-en-france,8884698.php

Posted by: Mina | May 15 2020 18:35 utc | 5

Incumbency is the foundation of political evil – in·cum·BENT – bought and in the bag. Make your voting rule, whether of the blue tribe or of the red tribe, have an understanding between your tribes – NO INCUMBENT returned to office. If a holder of public office is seen to serve public interests, by all means return them to public office, just not the one they currently hold; give them the experience of holding all manner of public office and educate them to the problems of all public office. It may be wise that to return an incumbent to the same office after honourably serving the public interest they must pass a bar of maybe 60% for the first sequential re-election and 65% then 70% thereafter. Do something to control incumbents, there is nothing in place now and the results are in plain sight the systemic damage. Once the public office holder has a decade or two of serving the public interest, then, and only then can they be said to be qualified to hold any administrative position, their experience serving as hindrance to self-serving as is done today. It is your country, be in charge of it or keep quiet.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | May 15 2020 18:50 utc | 7

And just in time, we have this essay, “How Biosecurity Is Enabling Digital Neo-Feudalism” by Pepe Escobar. Seven years ago, this prediction was made:
“In the worst-case scenario projected for a pandemic, Zylberman predicted that ‘sanitary terror’ would be used as an instrument of governance….
“Agamben did square the circle: it’s not that citizens across the West have the right to health safety; now they are juridically forced (italics [Pepe’s]) to be healthy. That, in a nutshell, is what biosecurity is all about.
“So no wonder biosecurity is an ultra-efficient governance paradigm. Citizens had it administered down their throats with no political debate whatsoever. And the enforcement, writes Agamben, kills ‘any political activity and any social relation as the maximum example of civic participation.'”
Escobar’s topic’s been the subject of heated discussion here. How much of “reopening” in meant to combat the implied totalitarian potential? Perhaps an entire thread ought to be devoted? That such was a planned additional benefit of the COVID-19 attack seems very reasonable. Since it was thought of, discussed and had books published about it seems to indicate it ought to become a central topic at MoA.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 15 2020 19:04 utc | 9

and infect its own human servant

b has a sense of humor. 🙂

Posted by: Passer by | May 15 2020 19:49 utc | 11

Surely it is profit that Gilead is after? I have heard quoted that one dose of remdesivir is about $1’000 so a “full” cure (whatever that may be) is $30’000. The second drug is almost certainly much cheaper.
They may think about reducing the cost if they find it is being given to the cat.

Posted by: Stonebird | May 15 2020 20:46 utc | 13

I’m not going to argue in any way with what warning at what stage of Covid-19 would have been justified or not. The disease is mind-boggling, it is difficult to judge.
However, I find it not nearly as hard to judge this Rick Bright fellow B cites. Bright either failed at his job, or he’s always been something of a con man to begin with. It’s probably a good thing to remove him from BARDA. You might even call his removal a no-brainer from Trump’s point of view, since Bright is an Obama appointee.
But politics aside, Bright’s CV is odd and sketchy. Take a look:
1984 high school degree
? – ? U of Kansas
1990-1992 Osborn Laboratories
1994-1995 research assistant Alabama Reference Lab
? – 1997 Auburn U-Montgomery, B. Sc.
1997-2000 Emory U: Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Yerkes National Primate Research Center: Vaccine Research Center
2002 Ph. D.
1998-2002 CDC
2002-2003 Altea Therapeutics
2003-2006 CDC
2006-2008 Novavax
2008-2010 PATH (Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation)
2010 Advanced Course in Vaccinology (ADVAC), Fondation Mérieux / U of Geneva (France)
2010-2016 BARDA
2016-2020 Director of BARDA plus Deputy Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response in the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response (ASPR)
2020- National Institutes of Health
Not exactly straightforward, hard to follow. His Wikipedia article doesn’t even give his year of birth. It also doesn’t tell us what year exactly Bright took up studies, so we’re left to guess if he managed to get his degrees in a timely manner or maybe had to spend some extra years to succeed. I’m guessing it’s the latter. Also, he never stays for long in a position, except for Big Government (BARDA).
In case you’re wondering what an organization like BARDA would be up to, it’s role would have been to make good use of the 50 billion $ or so which have been coughed up for bio-preparedness since 9/11. By and large, it just hasn’t. Part of this preparedness approach, among other things but specifically, would involve stockpiling enough PPE to go round for a few weeks during a sudden emergency such as a pandemic. That, however, was “not a priority” under either Bright or Obama. So there you are, dear US citizens. Just one more thing: it appears that Bright was his own supervisor in his dual role of Director of BARDA and Deputy Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response in the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response (ASPR). Funny thing.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | May 15 2020 21:10 utc | 15

i m suspectful about Bright too. coordinated with the release of anti Schweppes studies (no zinc added).
switzerland reopens its bars and a number of european countries like portugal announce they ll soon open to tourism.

Posted by: Mina | May 15 2020 21:28 utc | 17

I really dislike cats (& do have two parakeets), but I can understand why some people would want them as pets.
They tell me that there are ‘indoor cats’, and ‘outdoor cats’. I suspect that most ‘outdoor cats’ have never been trained to handle being kept indoors. But it’s now obvious that they should be.
So when raising your ‘outdoor cat’, keep it indoors for one week every month. There are many reasons this could be necessary. For instance when the Covid, or just the coyote, comes to town.

Posted by: blues | May 15 2020 21:44 utc | 19

So far COVID lives in cats, Siberian tigers, bats, pangolins, raccoon dogs, ferrets. Only commonality here is they are all mammals. There have been a couple reports that it lives in dogs as well. If conclusions can be drawn from this it would seem to be a simple and indiscriminate virus. And we must mask our dogs, mask our cats, make them wear diapers if they go outside.

Posted by: oldhippie | May 15 2020 22:32 utc | 21

Posted by: karlof1 | May 15 2020 19:04 utc | 10 That such was a planned additional benefit of the COVID-19 attack seems very reasonable. Since it was thought of, discussed and had books published about it seems to indicate it ought to become a central topic at MoA.
I’m not willing to speculate on this given the lack of hard facts, which are even less than in the Seth Rich discussion.
This situation could well be like the wars the US starts everywhere – an opportunity to profit, even if the wars fail. So the US elites know that there may well be pandemic at some point (although this itself is highly speculative – how many people outside of preppers and scientists in the field think about pandemics?). So perhaps they plan to take advantage of that because, just like in their wars, they will never be blamed and never suffer any consequences personally. So what have they got to lose? Plus it’s in their nature to grab everything from everyone at all times, so even in a crisis they will continue doing so.
But is that the same as *proving* that they *did* do so in this specific instance? Absolutely not. For that, you need actual *facts* – meaning proof of specific actions taken *and* specific *intent* behind those actions – just like in a criminal investigation. Not necessarily “court of law proof”, but one needs far more than “well, they might have done this”, still less “they *did* do this.” The problem with a lot of people, including people here, is that they start with speculation and end up with certainty for which they have no real evidence.
But the Occam’s Razor explanation is that the US elites may well intend to profit from this crisis *now*, but the most likely explanation is simply that the US and most of the Western world was unprepared, compared to the Asian countries that had already gone through similar crises on a smaller scale.
Building a theory of who is responsible for what depends on *known facts* (to the degree *any* “fact” can be “known”, which itself is difficult these days), not speculation.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 15 2020 22:38 utc | 23

oldhippie
Just the mammals that have similar receptors to humans. I saw a short list of them sometime back.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 15 2020 22:41 utc | 25

people who let their cats out are dangerous retards so i see no real problem. they use a vapid “appeal to nature” to excuse it so let’s see nature take its course with them.
speaking of which, if we were to apply this “logan’s run” social darwinism line of thought in relation to actual usefulness as a human in society as opposed to chronological age the ones saying “screw granny i need my dividend checks” would be marched into the ovens. a 70 year old who’s done meaningful things is more of a “keeper” than a 23 year old dartmouth frat boy on his way to 50 years at goldman sachs.

Posted by: the pair | May 15 2020 22:55 utc | 27

“Hospitals in the UK were emptied of none-Covid people to make way for the predicted-but-never-happened deluge…
“The lockdown may or may not have any effect on Covid patients (there was certainly no shortage of hopsital facilities for them), but it certainly resulted in deaths that would not have happened otherwise. Cancer patients have had their chemotherapy deferred indefinately, and so on.
“The fear-mongers definitely have blood on their hands.” Ken Garoo@26
No Ken, that is not true. I assume that by ‘fearmongers’ you mean those who have for years been warning of an imminent pandemic and calling for preparations to be made for it. These people have not been listened to by the governments of the US and UK. Instead of preparing for the pandemic they have run down stocks of PEP, failed to produce and stockpile respirators, cut the standard of living of nurses and driven young people away from training for the profession.
It is neo-liberal governance not those warning of problems who have blood on their hands- the blood in the first place of all those who have died, from this dangerous virus, in Care homes and elsewhere. And, as you point out those, such as my sister, who have had their chemotherapy and other treatments curtailed because the NHS and the US Healthcare systems are not designed to deal with epidemics, but to make money from treating patients quickly and without leaving any spare capacity- human or otherwise- not producing a return on capital invested.
As for you: your role is to apologise for neo-liberalism, demand the forced return of workers to their jobs and to rationalise the deaths of thousand of people, most of whom are no longer young. It takes a community of trolls to defend capitalism at a time when its real nature is clearly exposed.

Posted by: bevin | May 15 2020 23:30 utc | 29

#13

2. Situation in Russia and Belarus is bad.

So the situation in Russia is ‘bad’.
Hmm, tens of thousands of deaths in European countries (‘Western’ countries, on the whole), doctors who have to wear “protective suits” from garbage bags, mass graves, calls to allow the population to get sick in order to develop “collective immunity” (in fact, voluntary consent to screening (=death) of a part of the population with such natural selection)… but it is Russia where the situation is ‘bad’, and, as you said, “Europe looks to be moving behind the epidemic”. That’s funny.
The situation in Russia is ‘bad’… You are talking about a country where one of the lowest mortality rates (thanks to well-thought-out, previously taken measures, as well as reliable coordinated work of the medical system – a legacy of the Soviet system), where one of the highest rates of population testing is carried out (the more infected people are identified, the better), where dozens of spare modern medical centers have been built at the moment (thanks to the excellent work of the Ministry of Defense). Where the authorities offered the population one of the most impressive measures of social support (one-time payments, payments for children, moratorium on penalties for housing and communal services, zero bank credit for business, payments to medical workers, tax holidays, etc.). The country, which is the world leader in providing ventilation devices – Russia has 26.6 (or 27.3 according to some estimates) devices per 100 thousand people (for comparison, in the USA this indicator is 18.8 devices per 100 thousand people, and in Italy it is 8.3), and produces/supplies them to dozens of other countries. And by the way, in Russia, a vaccine for the COVID-19 may appear already in September (I recall that thanks to the Russian vaccine it was possible to stop and defeat the Ebola epidemic in Africa).
Of course, the situation may change, including in Russia. Anything can happen. But I only recall that at the moment Russia is not a country where it was necessary to withdraw the military with weapons to the streets, or introduce a curfew. Do not forget this when you write that this is Russia, where the situation is ‘bad’.

Posted by: alaff | May 15 2020 23:36 utc | 31

Ken Garoo | May 15 2020 22:27 utc | 26
“…Hospitals in the UK were emptied of none-Covid people to make way for the predicted-but-never-happened deluge.”
My niece is a nurse at major hospital in one of Australia’s state capitals – she has been on reduced shifts for the last few weeks – no patients & too many staff. Anecdotal but still some what revealing in light of the following…
Backlog of 400,000 elective surgery cases
How can we measure the quality of life for these 400,000 people?
Maybe there is a study somewhere on “years of life lost”.
Then there is this…
Impact likely to lead to increased rates of suicide
Maybe these people don’t count.

Posted by: ted01 | May 16 2020 0:36 utc | 33

OT/ sars-cov-2 genetics:
another pangolin cov paper (Liu et al, May 2020)
This one rejects the pangolin theory, I *think* because of other genetic differences elsewhere in the virus dna of the pangolin cov.
However, they seem to find patterns suggesting that mixing of viral dna from different cov strains is possible. (presumably the missing training place still in bats?)
Recombination analysis showed that S gene of pangolin-CoV-2020 might be constructed by fragment from Bat-CoV-ZC45 or Bat-CoV-ZXC21 and fragment from Bat-CoV-RaTG13.
In regards the crucially important S1/S2 cleavage site discussed on yesterday’s thread
Interestingly, the cleavage site between S1 and S2 in SARS-CoV-2 had multiple insertions (i.e. PRRA), compared with those of Bat-CoV-RaTG13 and pangolin-CoV-2020, which may result from an additional recombination event.
Note again that there exist both Bat and Human cov’s that do have the cleavage site in common with sars-cov-2, but lack the efficient ACE2 binding part which the pangolin-cov and sars-cov-2 have.
[link referred via that trashy-eclectic artifact of our culture, zerohedge]

Posted by: ptb | May 16 2020 2:04 utc | 35

Yes, Ken Garoo @26, the fearmongers have blood on their hands, not just in the UK, and this is a massive life-and-death crisis. More evidence, from another unimpeachable source various MoA stalwarts will now have to claim is a hack:
Unicef warns lockdown could kill more than Covid-19 as model predicts 1.2 million child deaths
Subhead: ‘Indiscriminate lockdowns’ are an ineffective way to control Covid and could contribute to a 45 per cent rise in child mortality
“…According to a stark report published in Lancet Global Health journal on Wednesday, almost 1.2 million children could die in the next six months due to the disruption to health services and food supplies caused by the coronavirus pandemic.
“The modelling, by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Unicef, found that child mortality rates could rise by as much as 45 per cent due to coronavirus-related disruptions, while maternal deaths could increase by almost 39 per cent.
“Dr [Stefan Peterson, chief of health at UNICEF] said these figures were in part a reflection of stringent restrictions in much of the world that prevent people leaving their homes without documentation, preventing them from accessing essential health care services. …
“…Covid is not a children’s disease. Yes there are rare instances and we see them publicised across the media. But pneumonia, diarrhoea, measles, death in childbirth, these are the reasons we will see deaths rise.”

Posted by: fairleft | May 16 2020 2:37 utc | 37

@Krypton
Interesting point. My union steward at a previous job consistently supported the overthrow of leftist governments in South America. As far as domestic politics went he was a die-hard (so-called) leftist.
Upon having a couple drinks one night after work, i pressed him as too why, he as a black man and lifelong Democrat would support these brutal, racist, fascist governments. Turns out much of our PERS (public employee retirement system) was invested in Central and South American sweatshops in the textile industry. Living wages, worker safety, environmental concerns and other issues championed by Latin American leftists made for bad return on investment.
That sort of moral rot seems to have infected and destroyed much of the American Left.

Posted by: Jason | May 16 2020 2:47 utc | 39

Posted by: Ken Garoo | May 15 2020 22:27 utc | 26
“Most people will never get it.
Most of the people who get it won’t ever experience symptoms.
Most of the people who experience symptoms won’t need medical care.
Most of the people who need medical care won’t be need emergency or critical care.
And even the tiny percentage of people who need who DO need critical care will survive, regardless of risk factors or medical history.”
I watched the video and your supposed transcription is riddled with errors (exactly one out of five of your sentences accurately reflects what was said by the speaker).
I expect that the remainder of your post may be similarly misleading.
It’s well known that many people have had to forego prompt medical care due to the pandemic, and it’s not surprising that hospitals may be under- or over-prepared for the number of incoming patients given how much we don’t know about the virus.
As well, hospitals are great places for airborne diseases to spread, so sending generally unhealthy people into such an environment could be risky with even a few COVID19 patients around.

Posted by: farm ecologist | May 16 2020 3:01 utc | 41

From the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE UK) Gov.UK website…
Meeting #18 23 March 2020
“Persuasion
2. Perceived threat: A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened; it could be that they are reassured by the low death rate in their demographic group (8), although levels of concern may be rising (9). Having a good understanding of the risk has been found to be positively associated with adoption of COVID-19 social distancing measures in Hong Kong (10). The perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging. To be effective this must also empower people by making clear the actions they can take to reduce the threat (11).”
Options for increasing adherence to social distancing

Posted by: ted01 | May 16 2020 3:13 utc | 43

Interesting article in the NY Times looking at Sweden, that now-darling of the Trump Administration:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/15/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-deaths.html
When you look at the excess deaths then, sure, Sweden is doing much better than some other European countries that fumbled their involuntary lockdowns e.g. UK, Spain, Italy, France, etc. But, honestly, Benny Hill had those countries pegged a long, long time ago. But it’s more than that: not only are they comic-book examples of hopeless mismanagement, none of those are Scandinavian countries.
When you compare Sweden against Denmark, Norway, Finland then a completely different picture emerges. Essentially, all the Scandinavian countries that went into lockdown had negligible increases in mortality, while the one Scandinavian country that didn’t (i.e. Sweden) is showing a 27% increase in mortality.
That suggests to me that there are reasons (e.g. climate, population density, cultural) that gives Scandinavia some significant advantages over other countries in Europe, so much so that lockdown in Scandinavian countries has basically prevented covid-19 from having any effect on mortality, while not locking-down has a significant but not overwhelming effect on mortality.
But that is unlikely to translate anywhere else, and is certainly not going to translate to the USA which is – duh! – definitely not Scandinavian in its climate, demographics or culture.
If you want to look at what is in store for a “business as usual” USA then the better role-model is likely to be Brazil.
And the outlook for Brazil is, well, who’d want to be there right now?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 16 2020 3:22 utc | 45

Yeah, Right | May 16 2020 3:22 utc | 55
Sweden’s two major failures were not protecting its nursing home population and its ‘personal responsibility’ health advice not effectively penetrating its large immigrant and refugee communities. These have little to do with ‘to lockdown or not to lockdown’.
Looking ahead there are no positive options in the most neoliberal countries. Least bad is a non-lockdown but it will be horrible. 40 years of neoliberal cutbacks in the US has left us with no viable options. ‘Pray for the Gates miracle vaccine!’

Posted by: fairleft | May 16 2020 3:42 utc | 47

thanks b… you put a lot of work into these posts with the many links and ideas…
okay, i read all the posts in this thread.. its a hobby i guess.. i have a few hobbies… i think the best partial quote was ” But if I’m right”…. that seems to summarize a lot of the thinking around covid… people forget about the ‘but’ and the ‘if’ and go straight to believing that ‘I’m right’…. try to remember the buts and the ifs… no ones position here is as solid and as bullet proof as they might like to think it is..
i think the worst lines i read in posts are ones where the person expresses stuff like this – “The fear-mongers definitely have blood on their hands.” i guess that is a not very generous way to say that anyone who has any fears is guilty of murder… that ain’t all that flattering to an audience in general, even if you think it is a good way to get a point across… it isn’t and it makes you look bad…someone in the health profession wants to safe lives and they made a decision with that in mind and now they are labelled a fearmonger with blood on their hands?? nah.. i just don’t see it that way.. and i think this attitude just reinforces a lot of negativity too… i would say people who make these kinds of comments have a lot of negativity on their hands and will need to figure out a way to get out from under that.. so, maybe i don’t need to say anything… they have enough to process as it is… they probably don’t read my comments anyway… but if i am right, LOLOLOL!

Posted by: james | May 16 2020 4:28 utc | 49

@all
Took the big broom and cleaned up the thread.
Again lots of fake first-time-ever posters who contributed only hate.
Notorious anti-semite King Lear / Giant Sequoia had his comments eliminated.
His sidekick donkeytale / disabuser likewise.
Some late-coming promoters of chloroquine were also banned.
Why do these people waste their time posting here when they already know that their efforts will be deleted a few hours later?

Posted by: b | May 16 2020 5:31 utc | 51

re uncle tungsten | May 16 2020 4:05 utc | 48
Thanks for the tips as most are less obvious than wandering around with a house brick in each hand.

Posted by: A User | May 16 2020 6:55 utc | 53

passerby | May 15 2020 21:34 utc
Not pleasant by any means, but very simple when you know this handy trick
Cat Hack

Posted by: Some Random Passerby | May 16 2020 7:11 utc | 55

Maybe this is why remdesivir gets hyped?
COVID-19 Panel Gilead Ties

Nine members of the Panel tasked with determining acceptable COVID-19 treatments have disclosed financial ties to Gilead, the manufacturer of Remdesivir. However, at least 7 other members failed to disclose their financial ties to Gilead and a number of other panel members appear to have links to Gilead that require no disclosure. Together, Gilead-linked individuals made up a majority of this panel.

Posted by: Joost | May 16 2020 7:29 utc | 57

ptb@35
One theory is that the spike protein gene of Bat Coronavirus’ HKU9 or RmYN02 could be the probable source of the putative insert that adds the RRAR furin site to SARS-CoV-2. The nucleotide code sequence matches and the insertion could be via copy choice errors in cells from a person simultaneously infected with both bat viruses.
http://virological.org/t/tackling-rumors-of-a-suspicious-origin-of-ncov2019/384/4
This would require the insertion to take place during a co-infection with one still unknown source virus’ and the virus containing the cleavage site.
I hope this helps. Your comments appreciated.

Posted by: krollchem | May 16 2020 9:36 utc | 59

Nice varied post b.
I love cats.
They taste like chicken.
Did anyone else see the 100% cure claim (not a vaccine, not a treatment – a cure) by California’s Sorrento therapeutics reported across a good number of outlets including CNBC and Fox yesterday…? When I saw it tweeted I immediately thought pump n dump scam, stock up around 60% before market opening. The antibody found is named STI-1499, and reported to be able to, after infusion, identify and envelope the Coronavirus, where it is then passed out of the body. Lots of things work in the test tube, but ultimately fail in real life… such a claim and resultant stock price movement should be punished if claim is false.

Posted by: MadMax2 | May 16 2020 9:44 utc | 61

What would actually be interesting to know is whether “early enough” stuff like artemisa/revinsara and the whole traditional pharmacy do work too. But for that kind of study to be made randomized etc there is neither enough volunteers in the countries where they could be made not any budget from the countries where it is more profitable to sell a molecule.

Posted by: Mina | May 16 2020 9:58 utc | 63

@47 fairleft you only discuss one half of my post. The other half is that those Scandinavian countries that *did* go into lockdown had almost no increase in mortality over “baseline”. Sweden’s sorta-alright result needs to be compared against those outstanding results, not against anyone else.
If the USA – or anyone else, for that matter – attempts to emulate Sweden’s policies then the result is likely to be Armageddon.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 16 2020 10:25 utc | 65

fairleft | May 16 2020 3:42 utc | 47
Sweden; ‘personal responsibility’ health advice not effectively penetrating its large immigrant and refugee communities.
This is one problem of “cultural identity” in Europe at the moment.
I gather there was a problem with roaming gangs and No-go areas before Covid-19. The lumping of statistics into “one country at a time” does not take into account separate geographical or ethnic areas.
There are now 750 no-go areas in France, where the police would not or could not go to enforce “lockdown”. There are obviously no available statistics based on “integration – or not” of immigrant populations, to look at. (politically fraught) However, I must say that it might just explain part of the curiously high Swedish results, and would clarify the real effectiveness of mass lockdown.

Posted by: Stonebird | May 16 2020 10:31 utc | 67

it would also be interesting to know if among the patients treated while only with mild symptoms, a higher level of zinc was found in their blood samples.

Posted by: Mina | May 16 2020 10:32 utc | 69

Everybody except for the nutjobs who think COVID-10 came out of a lab, assumes that a precursor to COVID-19 came out of a bat via a pangolin or some other exotic wild animal before infecting a human. That cats can carry COVID-19 suggests a possible alternative route of human to cat(s) to human. Many humans live in far greater proximity to cats than any do to pangolins or other exotic wild animals and with many unrelated humans living in close proximity to one another, so do many cats and those cats hissing or spitting at each other seems a good way to pass any virus between each other.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | May 16 2020 11:17 utc | 71

Fairleft @ 47, Stonebird @ 71:
My understanding of the situation regarding immigrant communities and COVID-19 in Sweden is that, yes, some immigrant communities (Somali communities in particular) did live in areas of high rates of crime designated as no-go zones by police. These areas being no-go zones also meant that government services that could have supplied the appropriate information about COVID-19 to these immigrant communities, in their own languages as well, didn’t set up offices there.
Another problem is that in Sweden, municipal governments run nursing homes on stringent budgets. Many if not most workers in these institutions are employed on contracts which means that individual workers may work long hours looking after as many as 200 patients in one institution to make enough income just to get by from one day to the next. Workers are often drawn from immigrant communities and their understanding of Swedish may be poor.
A comment by DFT on Peter Turchin’s article “A Tale of Two Countries” at Turchin’s blog:

Dr. Turchin,
One problem appears to be that the Swedish government had no prior authority to control the elderly care; it is run by municipalities who have preferred to cut labour cost using workers on hourly contracts. This has lead to an excessive spread of the virus across elderly care facilities by workers who cannot afford to stay home.
The current estimate is that half of the Swedish Covid-19 deaths are in the elderly care!
See “>https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=7467473

Karl Kling replied to DFT’s comment:

…As for the elderly care, many workers have hourly contracts and do not speak Swedish that well. Most statistics are on a total regional level though as the regions provide health care. Would be great if there were more granular statistics as there are now rumors spreading about which ethnic groups are harder hit than ethnic Swedes.

Further information that support DFT and Karl Kling’s comments on the neglect of the elderly in aged care homes in Sweden:
“Sweden admits failure to protect elderly in care homes”

… Kommunal, Sweden’s largest union for municipal employees which includes many care workers, has meanwhile blamed precarious working conditions for the unfolding [COVID-19] tragedy.
It said that in March [2020], 40 per cent of staff at Stockholm nursing homes were unskilled workers employed on short-term contracts, with hourly wages and no job security, while 23 per cent were temps.
In other words: people who often can’t afford not to go to work even if they’re sick.
“There are a lot of different people who work at several nursing homes, and that also leads to a greater spread,” the head of Kommunal’s nursing home division, Ulf Bjerregaard, said …

The article further notes that nursing homes in Sweden are large complexes housing hundreds of residents, in contrast to nursing homes in Norway and Denmark, and these large institutions will only take people who are already in bad health. In other words, Swedish aged care facilities are virtually halfway homes to the morgue. And that’s before they even start hiring refugees and immigrants from poor countries.

Posted by: Jen | May 16 2020 11:32 utc | 73

Posted by: fairleft | May 16 2020 3:18 utc | 44 3) But if I’m right, the lockdowns are effective, you lift the lockdown and it just starts growing again … the lockdowns are not a mechanism for disease eradication … it will only delay when the disease happens, now or later’ (22:41)
What this moron fails to comprehend is that a lockdown has only one purpose: restrict transmission until testing, tracing and isolating can be used. And that is only so that the hospitals are not overwhelmed with too many cases at once.
These idiots can’t comprehend – or aren’t interested in trying because it would interfere with their personal agenda – that the *preferred* solution is testing, tracing and isolating. Lockdowns are what you do when you *aren’t* prepared to do these things, or you need to lockdown *temporarily* for a few weeks until you’ve ramped up your *previously prepared* testing, tracing and isolating resources.
If you know who has the virus, know who they have exposed to the virus, and can isolate all those people, the virus goes nowhere. That gives you time to develop a treatment and eventually a vaccine. Whereas, as the article I posted a couple threads back about herd immunity pointed out, here immunity is not a smart way to go about dealing with a pandemic – unless you like having millions of dead just to get a half-ass immunity.
How many times do we have to repeat to these people that South Korea is the personification of how this is supposed to work? But, n-o–o-o-o…That can’t be accepted because we have to open the economy NOW! NOW! NOW! Otherwise I might lose my job! Who gives a rat’s ass if Grand-dad croaks – especially if he’s *your* Grand-dad? All that matters to me is ME – and I’ll lie and ignore everything but MY agenda and keep on repeating my load of bullshit until you OBEY ME!
Which is fine by me…that’s what an individualist anarchist would be expected to say and do. But these clowns aren’t that – they’re just a hypocritical crew of shits. They better not cross my path and sneeze, I’ll put a bullet in their head, like a real individualist anarchist.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 16 2020 11:41 utc | 75

The Prophecies of Q
American conspiracy theories are entering a dangerous new phase.
https://tinyurl.com/ybuv4wwk

When Welch finally found himself inside the restaurant and understood that Comet Ping Pong was just a pizza shop, he set down his firearms, walked out the door, and surrendered to police, who had by then secured the perimeter. “The intel on this wasn’t 100 percent,” Welch told The New York Times after his arrest.

LOL Stupid is as stupid does… Let that be a lesson to some of you morons…

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 16 2020 11:55 utc | 77

b @ May16 9:39

Trump’s wonder medicine

The hydroxyChloroquine (HCQ) treatment regimen has shown some promise and people of all persuasions are looking into it.
The Chinese were the first to notice the potential of HCQ. And Raoult was the first to formalize a treatment regime with Zinc. So a more correct attribution would be: “China-Raoult wonder medicine”.
Big Pharma is clearly against cheap treatments as well as other cheap but “unproven” home remedies.
Trump’s support (which has been inconsistent) has been a kiss of death for hydroxyChloroquine because it has been used to discredit the drug – which surprises … nobody.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 16 2020 12:46 utc | 79

Mina wrote:
French labs who have started to test ppl for covid antibodies (not reimbursed, not part of a study) say that 20% have it.
_______________________________________________
These tests where people self-select to be tested are bound to show numbers far higher than what a random sample would show. And that’s assuming the test is even accurate which is an open question.
The people who have, in the last couple months, had the symptoms of Covid are going to be a lot more interested to see if they have the antibodies than people who have had no symptoms.

Posted by: jinn | May 16 2020 13:19 utc | 81

To clarify my above comment, the “promotion” moves of the pawns in Africa by China are in the long game. Other pawns in the Global South may achieve promotion quite a bit sooner.

Posted by: William Gruff | May 16 2020 13:23 utc | 83

Maybe this story from the Toronto Star will help explain why so many people are dying:
“Three of the largest for-profit nursing home operators in Ontario, which have had disproportionately high numbers of COVID-19 cases and deaths, have together paid out more than $1.5 billion in dividends to shareholders over the last decade, the Star has found.
“This massive sum does not include $138 million paid in executive compensation and $20 million in stock buybacks (a technique that can boost share prices), according to the financial reports of the province’s three biggest publicly traded long-term-care home companies, Extendicare, Sienna Senior Living and Chartwell Retirement Residences.
“That’s a total of more than $1.7 billion taken out of their businesses.”
Beneath all the uninformed, pretentious anecdote swapping about stats and panaceas, the drivelling over whether or not there is a pandemic or whether Bill Gates, Soros or the KKK planned and executed it on behalf of haute finance, something very simple is taking place.
Capitalism, which devours people and turns lives into capital, having made a pandemic disease of the sort now surrounding us inevitable, is protecting itself. Its major fear is that if there are too many victims-cf The Black Death- the price of labour may rise to the extent that it impinges on the rate of profit. It dare not consider the possibility that the working class will organise itself to put an end to the system, as an alternative to doing what men have done throughout the history of epidemics- blaming everything on an angry deity or an elite such as the Illuminati, the Council for Foreign Affairs or bloggers corrupted by money.

Posted by: bevin | May 16 2020 13:39 utc | 85

@krollchem 60
interesting link, thanks!

Posted by: ptb | May 16 2020 13:44 utc | 87

WaPo: Drug promoted by Trump as coronavirus ‘game changer’ increasingly linked to deaths
Posted by: b | May 16 2020 9:39 utc | 61
b,
do you have any conception of the lobbying methods used by Big Pharma?
Do you have any conception of the financial clout they have available for protecting their interests?
Do you have any conceptions of the influence they have, of the revolving doors between Big Pharma, pharmaceutical regulatory bodies, medical schools and every single level of the medical industry?
Do you have any conception of the way pharmaceutical registration works, and of the corrupt and fraudulent practices used to obtain authorisation for drugs?
It is one gigantic spaghetti pot of corruption and deception. Boeing/FAA is miniscule and almost angelic by comparison (and far less deadly also).
Coincidentally I have direct first-hand experience of both sides of the activities of Big Pharma concerning one specific highly effective cancer drug that the world’s biggest Pharma corporations have tried for the last 40 years to eradicate (finally almost successful by 2014, unfortunately). I have direct first-hand experience of the highest praise they share amongst their own top elites of the efficacy of that competitor’s medicine against all known types of cancer. I also have close 2nd hand inside knowledge of their efforts to purchase the patents for that same medicine for vast sums of money. I also personally know the proprietor and developer of that same medicine, and have witnessed and experienced first hand some of the fraudulent and criminal methods Big Pharma have used non-stop for 40 years to try to force my friend out of business, together with the lies and deception they have used publicly falsely alleging its “danger” and “inefficacy”, together even with using police to illegally force parents to stop using it for their seriously ill children who had already dramatically benefited from its use, and forcing doctors to stop using it for treatment. I also have extensive 2nd hand knowledge of their activities to that effect, and have good reason to believe they are true. I have also used that medicine myself, to great effect, and closely know a medical practice which has used it with considerable medical success, and of the coercion they also experienced not to use it.
The way the Western medical establishment has handled the question of the use of chloroquine and closely related drugs for Covid-19 is in every single respect and at every level 100% typical of Big Pharma disinformation projects.
The very fact that the US medical establishment approved use of hydroxychloroquine under specific conditions that ensure it is used exclusively at a very late stage after the virus has ceased to replicate guarantees that all or almost all major Western hydroxychloroquine trials will be negative – because it is a specific and known requirement of hydroxychloroquine therapy that the therapy is conducted early whilst the virus is stil replicating – later it is known to be useless. The approval of its use under such conditions is the specific result of Big Pharma influence. That is how they operate all the time.
Big Pharma is no more honest about either the safety or the efficacity of its products than are the White Helmets about their activities in Syria. Many of the most dangerous drugs sold by the biggest companies are approved on the basis of very small, improperly balanced trials, sometimes fraudulently conducted. Trials which give the wrong result are routinely hidden. Research on toxicity and dangerous side-effects are routinely inadequate, frequently fraudulent or knowingly misleading, and legal requirements for drug authorisations are frequently waived on the basis of influence campaigns. This is especially so for new chemotherapy drugs, which are intrinsically highly toxic and are normally used at very close to the fatal dose. There is no level playing field at all, quite the contrary.
Big Pharma do not profit from cures – they profit from selling very expensive drugs, and they are far more ruthless than the White Helmets in destroying any potential threat to their profits. There is no more effective threat to the World-View of Big Pharma – as I know from first hand experience – than effective cures, especially where they are cheap and unpatentable, or the patents are owned outside the cabal. Any such cure must be destroyed at all costs.
Several of the Big Pharma companies in recent years have been given multi-billion dollar fines for the fraud and subversion they have utilised in obtaining authorisation for drugs which are dangerous to the patient, and for their marketing of drugs known to be dangerous.
The patent for chloroquine and its derivatives has expired. It has been widely used for many years, its hazards and limitations are thoroughly documented, and it is in this respect – under proper supervision with respect to its known hazards and limitations and qualified by them – incomparably safer than any new and barely tested pharmaceutical drug or vaccine such as Remdesivir. It is cheaply produced around the world. Therefore, no full-scale well-controlled randomised clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine treatment for Covid-19 will ever be conducted in a major Western country. Big Pharma will ensure that.

Posted by: BM | May 16 2020 13:59 utc | 89

The situation is about multiple actors with different agendas and points of conflict.
One “angle” being left out is this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuOxG-rnj30&feature=youtu.be
https://ia802609.us.archive.org/12/items/pdfy-tNG7MjZUicS-wiJb/Scenarios%20for%20the%20Future%20ofTechnology%20and%20International%20Development.pdf
The progress of the covid19 discussion is still a wee bit too ELi5 at moment.
Multiple actors and with different agendas and points of conflict.

Posted by: ThatDamnGood | May 16 2020 14:10 utc | 91

Posted by: vk | May 16 2020 14:01 utc | 92
Well, living in Istanbul, all you see around are stray cats, and a few dogs. All fed by local people and even with little cat shelters built for them. All this even now
https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/photo-elderly-woman-looks-after-stray-cats-and-dogs-153751
And, yes, many homes have pet cats as well. Then again, Turkey is not quite third world or first world.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | May 16 2020 14:22 utc | 93

Passerby: Belarus, Russia, Singapore etc. look bad.
Alaff: Passerby is nuts.
Indeed, Passerby did not elaborate but he could refer to “spikes” that show in statistics and something like that. Singapore of course had so few cases that even if COVID-19 is not gone totally, something hard in small island nation with the largest dependence on trade (re-export hub etc.), single digits days happen.
Russia and Belarus are definitely in a different phase of the curve. USA entered the down-sloping plateau in early April, but the slope is to flat for rejoicing. Russia and Belarus share trends, and the down-sloping plateau started around May 3, and mortality stats probably reflect cases 1-2 weeks earlier. Stats per million people are much lower than in West Europe/North America, and the next few weeks will show if low mortality of the cases is an artifact of exponential growth phase or not.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 16 2020 14:43 utc | 95

Holy something….
I am living alone with my cat 14 years old and now I have to get rid of it….
I think I will just face this corona crap head on, you live until you die.
Stay safe.

Posted by: Den lille abe | May 16 2020 14:52 utc | 97

Hmmm! New England Journal of Medicine.
Remember Vioxx and Merck:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1533509/
How does one trust these Western “science”” journals, anymore?

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | May 16 2020 15:02 utc | 99