Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 04, 2020

As Death Toll Increases Blame China Campaign Intensifies

The Trump administration will continue its efforts to blame China for the novel Coronavirus because the epidemic situation in U.S. will soon become worse:

As President Trump presses for states to reopen their economies, his administration is privately projecting a steady rise in the number of cases and deaths from coronavirus over the next several weeks, reaching about 3,000 daily deaths on June 1, according to an internal document obtained by The New York Times, nearly double from the current level of about 1,750.

The projections, based on modeling by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and pulled together in chart form by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, forecast about 200,000 new cases each day by the end of the month, up from about 25,000 cases now.


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There continues to be some infighting between the Trump administration and the intelligence services about blaming China. The administration wanted the U.S. intelligence services to claim that the virus was probably manmade or escaped from a laboratory in Wuhan. The intelligence services disagree with the administration on both points.

The administration then penned a paper from open sources that contains those and other allegations and pushed it to friendly media.

Wuhan lab 'most likely' coronavirus source, U.S. government analysis finds - Washington Times, Apr 28

A Wuhan laboratory is the “most likely” source of the COVID-19 outbreak now ravaging the globe, according to a U.S. government analysis that catalogs the evidence and concludes that other explanations for the origin of the coronavirus are less credible.

The document, compiled from open sources and not a finished product, says there is no smoking gun to blame the virus on either the Wuhan Institute of Virology or the Wuhan branch of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, both located in the city where the first outbreaks were reported.

But “there is circumstantial evidence to suggest such may be the case,” the paper says.

“All other possible places of the virus’ origin have been proven to be highly unlikely,” the document concludes. A copy of the report, compiled this month, was obtained by The Washington Times.

A 'U.S. government analysis' based on open sources is not an intelligence product but a writeup on Google searches by some intern. But there was pressure to make it into an official intelligence judgment.

Trump Officials Are Said to Press Spies to Link Virus and Wuhan Labs- NY Times, Apr 30

Senior Trump administration officials have pushed American spy agencies to hunt for evidence to support an unsubstantiated theory that a government laboratory in Wuhan, China, was the origin of the coronavirus outbreak, according to current and former American officials.
...
Most intelligence agencies remain skeptical that conclusive evidence of a link to a lab can be found, and scientists who have studied the genetics of the coronavirus say that the overwhelming probability is that it leapt from animal to human in a nonlaboratory setting, as was the case with H.I.V., Ebola and SARS.

That this leaked at all was the first sign that the intelligence services were resisting the push from their higher ups. More push back followed with an official statement.

Intelligence Community Statement on Origins of COVID-19 - ODNI, Apr 30

“The entire Intelligence Community has been consistently providing critical support to U.S. policymakers and those responding to the COVID-19 virus, which originated in China. The Intelligence Community also concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the COVID-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified.

“As we do in all crises, the Community’s experts respond by surging resources and producing critical intelligence on issues vital to U.S. national security. The IC will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan.”

That was not good enough for the "We lied, we stole, we cheated" Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (vid).

ABCNews 'This Week' Transcript 5-3-20

RADDATZ: And, Mr. Secretary, have you seen anything that gives you high confidence that it originated in that Wuhan lab?

POMPEO: Martha, there's enormous evidence that that's where this began.  ...  I can tell you that there is a significant amount of evidence that this came from that laboratory in Wuhan.

RADDATZ: Do you believe it was manmade or genetically modified?

POMPEO: Look, the best experts so far seem to think it was manmade. I have no reason to disbelieve that at this point.

RADDATZ: Your -- your Office of the DNI says the consensus, the scientific consensus was not manmade or genetically modified.

POMPEO: That's right. I -- I -- I agree with that. Yes. I've -- I've seen their analysis. I've seen the summary that you saw that was released publicly. I have no reason to doubt that that is accurate at this point.

Then the same dodgy paper that was shopped to the Washington Times a week earlier appeared in an Australian broadsheet.

Coronavirus NSW: Dossier lays out case against China bat virus program - Daily Telegraph, May 4

China deliberately suppressed or destroyed evidence of the coronavirus outbreak in an “assault on international transparency’’ that cost tens of thousands of lives, according to a dossier prepared by concerned Western governments on the COVID-19 contagion.

The 15-page research document, obtained by The Saturday Telegraph, lays the foundation for the case of negligence being mounted against China It states that to the “endangerment of other countries” the Chinese government covered-up news of the virus by silencing or “disappearing” doctors who spoke out, destroying evidence of it in laboratories and refusing to provide live samples to international scientists who were working on a vaccine.

A "research document" prepared by "concerned Western governments" is not an intelligence product.

But Foxnews picked up from there and made the paper into one.

Leaked Western intel dossier reveals how China deceived the world about coronavirus - Foxnews, Apr 4

A research dossier compiled by the so-called "Five Eyes" intelligence alliance states that China intentionally hid or destroyed evidence of the coronavirus outbreak, leading to the loss of tens of thousands of lives around the world

The 15-page document from the intelligence agencies of the U.S., Canada, the U.K., Australia and New Zealand, was obtained by Australia's Saturday Telegraph newspaper and states that China's secrecy amounted to an “assault on international transparency."

The Australian Telegraph never claimed that the dossier was a "Five Eyes" product. That is a Foxnews invention. The five eyes countries share intelligence but they do not produce common dossiers or analyses. Each service does that separately for its own government.

Only a few hours after the Telegraph had published the above the Australian intelligence services shot the nonsense down.

Australian intelligence knocks back US government's Wuhan lab virus claim, Sydney Morning Herald, May 4

Senior members of the Australian intelligence community told The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age a research document shared in political circles under the Five Eyes intelligence arrangement was mostly based on news reports and contained no material from intelligence gathering.

A 15-page "dossier" has been widely quoted by local and international media about China's alleged cover-up of the virus. Australian intelligence officials have since identified a research report which was based entirely on open source material. The officials said it was likely the reports were the same.
...
Multiple senior intelligence sources who spoke to The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age in recent days have confirmed that Australia has still not been provided with any evidence that strongly suggests the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the source of the outbreak. Intelligence agencies have not been able to rule out the Wuhan lab, but the more likely cause of the virus is still the city's Huanan Seafood Market where environmental samples of the virus were found.

The WHO also said that it had received no evidence from the U.S. about the 'speculative' Wuhan laboratory claim.

The Trump administration is likely to continue this game and the intelligence services will hopefully continue to resist the pressure they are under.

As the U.S. will soon have as many death per day from covid-19 as it had casualties on 9/11 the risk of a (military?) escalation against China based on false claims will soon become exceptionally high.

Posted by b on May 4, 2020 at 18:20 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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As we anticipate and hoping the re-opening will coax customers out of house arrest, but No one's Coming around, cafes and malls are empty.

In Texas:

“I’ve seen one customer today - they didn’t buy anything,” said Taylor Jund, who was keeping watch over an empty Chaser clothing store. “There’s absolutely no one coming around here.”
Restaurants, retail stores and malls in Texas are now allowed to open at 25% capacity in most areas. Stores in rural counties with five or fewer cases can operate at 50%. A second phase is planned for May 18 if infection rates decline.[.]

How can a business survive on 25% - 50% capacity operation. And city/state revenues? Rents allowed to go unpaid for 12 months !!! Depression risk is very real.

The Feds will need to print $$$ or gin up customers.

Posted by: Likklemore | May 5 2020 17:20 utc | 201

Walter, yes, I don't know. Ft. Detrick. Hmm. Yes.

The stories about Lieber being arrested are very odd as well.

Jan. 2020.

Acclaimed Harvard Scientist Is Arrested, Accused Of Lying About Ties To China

https://www.npr.org/2020/01/28/800442646/acclaimed-harvard-scientist-is-arrested-accused-of-lying-about-ties-to-china

Posted by: Noirette | May 5 2020 17:29 utc | 202

vk said: "It is a myth those "model democracies" found the magic formula."

Myths must be known and accepted. I have not read in any Western paper the claim that Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong beat the virus. I make that claim. NYC has Covid casualties 3000 times worse than Hong Kong, 6000 times worse than Taiwan. Korea had a very bad start and has also beaten the virus, as has China, if we accept their stats.

Posted by: mattjanovic | May 5 2020 17:46 utc | 203

Russiagate never caught on with the American people because it was convoluted, abstract, and posed no immediate danger to the American people. There was no 9-11 type event tied to it. However, the Chinese sys-op is presenting the Chinese as an immediate material threat to all Americans. The sys-op is trying to associate the pandemic deaths to the Chinese in the same way the Bush administration scared people into believing Saddam was behind 9-11. It is no accident that 70+ percentage Americans supported the Iraq invasion as a result. Very dangerous game.

Posted by: Erelis | May 5 2020 17:55 utc | 204

VK said: "It is a myth those "model democracies" found the magic formula."

A myth has to be known to be a myth. I claim, on the basis or statistics, that Taiwan, Korea, Hong Kong etc beat the virus. My claim cannot be a myth; it can only be a fantasy, a piece of fake news, a lie, a dream, balderdash, but not a myth...

Problem: my claim is based on statistics.

Posted by: mattjanovic | May 5 2020 18:02 utc | 205

> Korea had a very bad start and has also beaten the virus,
>as has China, if we accept their stats.

We are supposed to believe that the evil virus can not be stopped, only slowed until the magic vaccine is found. Even here there are comments that make this claim, without offering any reason we should accept that claim as true. There is no need for endless debate on how many virus angels can dance on the head of a pin when we can look at the actual real-world results in China, etc. But I guess that useless debate is entertaining, or something.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | May 5 2020 18:07 utc | 206

@Trailer
I do not cast doubt on Chinese stats. but it's a big country, and some local party bosses might hide something, but it would be too stupid for them to do.

However, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, no way to hide the virus. They just beat it.

Posted by: mattjanovic | May 5 2020 18:20 utc | 207

@ 193 Piero.. thanks.. i was only watching the numbers on the deaths per day..

@ 197 oldhippie... thanks..

Posted by: james | May 5 2020 18:26 utc | 208

We were chained in Plato's Cave. Trailer and I escaped, we looked out and saw that in East Asia the virus is gone and the subway is normally crowded, stores open, and it has been this way since March.

It is difficult to believe, but it's true. We get arrested for sunning in the park, and they are free. Hard to believe

Posted by: mattjaovic | May 5 2020 18:30 utc | 209

good post from ttg at pat langs -“Clever girl” - TTG

Posted by: james | May 5 2020 18:33 utc | 210

Govern the Mente | May 5 2020 2:28 utc | 114
Who was it gave the order to destroy the samples? I see many references to this order, but where is the authority for it? (I'm not saying that it did not happen but I would like to know that it was given by a real Chinese official and not is not simply the invention of some Epoch Times correspondent.)

Posted by: foolisholdman | May 5 2020 18:54 utc | 211

Govern the Mente | May 5 2020 2:28 utc | 114
Caixin Global. This it seems is the authority for this story. How reliable it is I do not know. Do you or any other barfly?

The founder and publisher is Hu Shuli, a former Knight Fellow in journalism at Stanford University, and an honorary doctorate degree recipient from Princeton University. Previously, Hu founded Caijing magazine. Yang Daming acts as deputy publisher, and Wang Shuo is editor-in-chief.[1] The business side is headed by Zhang Lihui as executive president.

Posted by: foolisholdman | May 5 2020 19:09 utc | 212

uncle tungsten (May 5, 00:23) #97

Thanks for reposting that link to zero anthropology dot net. It provides a structure in which to categorize the actions of various nations to Covid-19. As a Canadian, I found it on the money in placing Quebec in the "Restorationist" category.

Quebec has, by its own count, the worst record of all provinces and is right up there among the highest world nations in the statistical measure of deaths.
https://www.inspq.qc.ca/covid-19/donnees

PM Legault is about to double down on his government's failures to date by reopening elementary schools next Monday and high schools in the week following. That move will allow parents to get back to work. It's the economy first, last and always, stupid. So far, with 2,398 dead and counting and additional 70-110 per day, it's full steam ahead, before any other province, in reopening schools and nonessential businesses. The Quebec government, in other words, is a pacesetter under the banner of Herd Immunity (i.e., Survival of the Fittest).

Quebec's statistical source (link above) has a pie chart that shows that 90% of those who die from Covid-19 are over 70 years old. The bulk of the 10% under 70 were probably suffering from chronic illnesses. The healthy young and middle aged have nothing to fear from Covid-19 or rapid "Restorationism."

In addition to restoring the Quebec economy to the status quo ante pronto, Herd Immunity will also rid the province and Canada of thousands more unproductive pensioners––so many of them around in recent decades––who get in your way with their canes and walkers, and who suck up an inordinate share of social services and medical attention. Let's hope a vaccine is not available till late, late next year, late enough that Covid-19 can roam free with enough time to rid us of the old and infirm.

Posted by: Jay-Ottawa | May 5 2020 19:16 utc | 213

Noirette @ 200. Interesting article. I pulled out some points I found interesting.

First, lets discuss what is arguably the most eye-catching aspect of the new virus — a 4-amino acid insertion that turned it into a natural-born killer.

This insert creates the furin cleavage site

So the virologists are puzzled. Where did this 12 nucleotide insert come from? Could it be lab-made? Well, virologists have studied furin sites in coronaviruses for decades, and have introduced many artificial ones in a lab.

In summary, our results demonstrate that the furin cleavage site upstream of the FP in S protein is an important site for CoV, modulating entry, cell–virus fusion, adaptation to its host cell, cell tropism and pathogenicity, but not antigenicity.

By the way, how they did it might frighten those who aren’t familiar with modern biotechnology — because the authors inserted this coronavirus spike-like protein into inactivated HIV

Perhaps this is what prompted Indian researchers to look for sequences similar to HIV in the CoV2 genome. In fact, experts use such pseudoviruses regularly, and in general, one should not be scared of retroviruses as a class — their subspecies lentiviruses have been used for gene therapy for many years.

I especially want to highlight the spike processivity in the quote, because this is not the first time that virologists have mentioned that the ability of a spike protein to be cleaved by proteases (including furin) can have an impact on virulence.
———————

This seems to point out that if the virus was engineered in a lab it was done as part of gain of function research rather than a virus that was engineered to work on an HIV vaccine.
———————

Posted by: financial matters | May 5 2020 19:17 utc | 214

Gehennah | May 5 2020 9:56 utc | 140

This idea of "cutting off all trade with China and thus bankrupting them" is based on a misunderstanding. I think I am right in saying that exports are (were) 30% of China's total trade and that exports to the USA are 11% of their exports. One does not have to be a brilliant mathematician to see that a total cut off (which will not happen!) would cut Chinese exports by 3.3%. Painful? Perhaps. Fatal? Hardly!

Posted by: foolisholdman | May 5 2020 19:47 utc | 215

mattjaovic @210: "We get arrested for sunning in the park, and they are free. Hard to believe"

Blowback is a bitch.

Or is it karma? I always get those two confused.

Posted by: William Gruff | May 5 2020 19:57 utc | 216

Nathan Mulcahy | May 5 2020 13:38 utc | 157

I understand what you are saying and I think you are mostly right. I would just comment that the argument about human rights seems to me to be a distraction as human rights are no use to a corpse and a "Human Right" to waltz around infecting other people seems to me to be not worth fighting for.

Posted by: foolisholdman | May 5 2020 20:12 utc | 217

I wonder why dwell so much on the phychotic machinations of Trump and Co.
What is the fascination? It is Kafkaesque as they say. I hate Kafkaesque.

Posted by: jared | May 5 2020 20:29 utc | 218

Lurk | May 5 2020 15:07 utc | 166

We have to also take into account that countries with previous experience with SARS had procedures in place. Western states had not and quite possibly their governments not just tried to dodge a hit to the economy, but more importantly a huge blow to their credibility for not having been prepared. Perhaps this proven incompetence also explains the ongoing lack of testing and tracking.

This lack of preparation is a damning admission of guilt in my view, at least in those countries which were researching bio-weapons as the all of them pretended that they "had to do this horrible research because some horrible actor e.g.(chose your preferred bogyman) might attack us with a biological weapon and we have to be prepared!"
Talking about the UK and the US, either they believed their own story or they didn't. If they believed it, then it is quite clear that they did not care if a lot of their own people died. More probably they did not believe that they were likely to be attacked and this is why there were almost no, certainly grossly inadequate, preparations. Which leaves the question: "What were they researching?" (With an obvious answer which sticks out like a sore and very embarrassing thumb.)

Posted by: foolisholdman | May 5 2020 20:44 utc | 219

This morning I heard a radio report on NPR that a French doctor had tested samples of someone who had died of an unidentified pneumonia in late December in Paris. The sample turned up positive for the Coronavirus. Maybe the dastardly Chinese were doing a test run on the French before unleashing it on their own people?

Posted by: Peter VE | May 5 2020 22:53 utc | 220

Lurk May 5 2020 16:11 utc @186

"...BTW, for all the "only old people die" wingnuts: A friend just called and told me a friend of her died from Covid-19. She was under 50 years of age and leaves behind a husband and two small children. This was in my city. Two villages away, a guy aged 30 died."

As of 5/5/2020 Covid-19 deaths Australia :-

Age:-
0-39 :0
40-49 :1
50-59 :2
60-69 :11
70-79 :31
80-89 :32
90+ :19

Deaths by age
These numbers don't lie.

You need to ask yourself one simple question.

Why did these 'young' people die?

Posted by: ted01 | May 5 2020 23:26 utc | 221

This guy Cunningham is pretty good - explains that while US administration is blaming China, it (as in Pompus) simultaneosly states that it does not know the origin of the virus:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/55129.htm

But goes on to explain the hysterical behavior of the administration which while not had to devine he packages it nicely.

Trump has maligned the crap out of China which word and deed. Trump relies heavily one being known to be a windbag. But he is doing actual harm to the US and others. It was Chinas plan to wait Trump out. Trump is making it difficult, putting China in a corner. If Trump is re-elected, I cant imagine that the patience could continue. Of course the administration considers Chinas existence (never mind success) a provocation.

If we survice Trump, we will owe him a debt of gratitude for freeing us from the NWO, but its looking dicey.

Posted by: jared | May 6 2020 0:29 utc | 222

Posted by: ted01 | May 5 2020 23:26 utc | 223

Its 28 % below 65 in far larger sample in New York

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

Posted by: Passer by | May 6 2020 0:32 utc | 223

@200 Noirette, it appears that even Fat Mike has given up on the "it was genetically-modified!" accusation, as has the entire US Intelligence Community.

The reason appears to have been the paper by Kristian Andersen that was published in Nature:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

Once that came out all the virologists of any note said they agreed with the findings.
I can't find any notable virologist who has disputed the conclusions and, obviously, neither could the Land Whale.


Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 0:55 utc | 224

Yeah Right@226

That opinion piece is hardly conclusive.

The lead author as are most virologists work for institutions who entirely dependent on NIH or other government funding. Scientists march with the herd and they are led by government and Gates funding both of which whom are heavily invested in or controlled by Big Pharma

Posted by: Pft | May 6 2020 1:42 utc | 225

Passer by | May 6 2020 0:32 utc | 225

Based on cdc provisional data 25% is about the national average for the country in most years. I imagine NYC lifestyle accounts for that slight increase

Also, NYC is one of the you youngest populations in the developed world. Retired folks move out to cheaper pastures. Relative risk of under 65 still very low although NYC seems to be padding the stats and calling more cases as covid deaths

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.05.20054361v1.full.pdf

Tried to find our raw death numbers by age in other years but it must be top secret as can only find rate data.

Posted by: Pft | May 6 2020 2:18 utc | 226

Passer by May 6 2020 0:32 utc @225

"Its 28 % below 65 in far larger sample in New York"

Your link provides the answer - a fact which has been known from the early days of the pandemic in Northern Italy.

This is a disease which kills the elderly, the infirm & those with underlying medical conditions.

Healthy young people are not dying.

Posted by: ted01 | May 6 2020 2:23 utc | 227

@ ted01 | May 5 2020 23:26 utc | 223

This report does not lie:

https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/3184678/beek-en-donk-rouwt-na-overlijden-dorpsgenoot-29-aan-corona-het-is-bizar-ongelooflijk-te-gek

And I was wrong about his age. Not 30, but 29 years old. No undelying health issues.

Wingnut.

Posted by: Lurk | May 6 2020 3:21 utc | 228

Lurk | May 6 2020 3:21 utc | 230

Wingnut?
Data supplied by Australian Government - if you can't accept the numbers, maybe contact the Dept. of Health +61 1800 020 0080 and take it up with them.

This is a disease which kills the elderly, the infirm & those with underlying medical conditions.

There is always going to be outliers in any data set - that's the nature of the world.

Posted by: ted01 | May 6 2020 3:43 utc | 229

@ted01

It is a fact that under 50 of age people do dies to the virus some were even healthy without any underlying health issue. The disease can trigger cytokine storm killing people that are supposed to be healthier.

As for the statistics you keep bringing about can we say that those data statistics are compiled during quarantine and lockdown measure ? Is it illogical to us to think that the infection rate and deaths would be far higher in all age groups if no quarantine measure are undertaken ?

Posted by: Lucci | May 6 2020 5:02 utc | 230

tedo1 & Passerby

Lurk believes those two cases right around the corner from him are dispositive. Should he not believe his lying eyes? His (straw man) wingnuts should pipe down.

And yet, for those who put faith in numbers, here's another set of figures that resemble Australia's. Quebec's death toll is also divided by age cohort:

AGE % Covid-19 DEATHS
0 - 29 0
30 - 49 0.8
50 - 69 8.1
70 - 79 17.5
80 - 89 40.5
90 + 33.2

Quebec old timers (70 and older) make up 90%+ of the cumulative death toll, (2,158 out of 2,398). As for the 10% under age 70 who also died, what percentage of them were immune-compromised or suffering serious chronic maladies before they were struck by the new covirus?

Governments that give up on isolation, tracking and elimination of the new virus, as China did, must defend their lazy choice of the alternative, which means settling for Herd Immunity by exposing everyone to the virus. Some, like Quebec's governors, admit that more seniors will die as a result, but that's the price for returning a society back to normality. Vacation is over. Children gotta get back to class, workers gotta return to work, planes gotta fly, businesses gotta make money. Seniors will have to dodge the virus as best thy can until a vaccine allows them to rejoin the indifferent herd.

Posted by: Jay-Ottawa | May 6 2020 5:10 utc | 231

Neil Ferguson is the chief hack with an unbroken record of failure (and therefore failing upward, as is typical of this system's most useful propagandists) whose prescriptions have been instrumental in pushing the lockdown ideology and program.

Now we learn that he himself doesn't believe in his own lies, as he has felt free to flout the same restrictions he has insisted must become the totalitarian "new normal".

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/05/uk-coronavirus-adviser-prof-neil-ferguson-resigns-after-breaking-lockdown-rules

That, along with the already long list of similar examples among the policy elites, proves it: The lockdown leaders themselves know it's all a Big Lie.

Posted by: Russ | May 6 2020 5:44 utc | 232

Trailer Trash @174

Much appreciated! Sorry to get you trawling the net for MSM dreck (well done for deftly avoiding linking to the NYT). I thought the article was from earlier in the year and only admits to cases going back to "at least Feb 20". Although the article does state that they were still working through earlier samples. Another interesting nugget: the Seattle Flu Study is funded and managed by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Gates must have funded hundreds of such studies all over the globe with samples retained from 2019 and earlier. There's a good chance 'Patient Zero's' swab is/was sitting in one of their freezers.

Many thanks to you and all the regulars at MoA for making this site such an essential resource.

Posted by: Paora | May 6 2020 5:52 utc | 233

@227 Pft: "That opinion piece is hardly conclusive."

How odd, that, because after that peer-viewed paper came out we had this:
https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/item/2112-intelligence-community-statement-on-origins-of-covid-19
"The Intelligence Community also concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the COVID-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified."

And even Fat Mike stumbled and mumbled his way to this:
"I’ve seen what the intelligence community has said. I have no reason to believe that they’ve got it wrong."

Embarrassing indeed to see a Land Whale do a back flip on national TV.

Look, Pft, that paper stopped the nonsense dead in its tracks. Not a single scientist could find fault with its methodology and not one of them disagreed with its conclusions.

Not. A. One.

And when that became obvious to Richard Grenell and to Fat Mike Pompeo they both decided to throw in the towel and go to Plan B.

You should to, stop flogging a horse that is so dead that even "We Lie, We Cheap" Pompeo decided it was time to hop off the ol' nag.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 9:51 utc | 234

Sorry, "We Lie, We Cheat" Pompeo. I'm sure he is a man of expensive - and expansive - tastes.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 9:53 utc | 235

@227 Pft: "Scientists march with the herd and they are led by government and Gates funding both of which whom are heavily invested in or controlled by Big Pharma"

You very obviously have not spent time around research scientists.

Their greatest delight is catching out one of their colleagues committing a howler.

There are massive Brownie Points if you are the first to spot some reputation-ruining flaw in someone else's work.

And you earn double-bonus-points if the work has just been published in a peer-reviewed journal.

It doesn't matter who pays their wages - they are still the bitchiest group of gossips on the planet.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 10:00 utc | 236

Jay-Ottawa #214

Thank you and I am glad you found it helpful. Today I have caught up with the Rational National (Canadian) reports that the european strain has mutated into a much more aggressive infector than previously and has had the temerity to travel to west coast USA. He was exasperated and mentioned the 'vaccine' word a couple of times. I got cranky with that as I have this thing about vaccine obsession.

All the big pharma team are chasing vaccines because they get some bucks to jab every body. Medicine makers just cure the sick so less sales. But this seems to be the simple game changer and least risk. If there were a prophylactic or a remedial drug that can be used in the early stages of infection all would be much better. If there were simple RELIABLE tests all would be simple. But here we have the obscene situation of vast expenditure on research for the past 20 years and not one suitable pharmaceutical created in response. Shame.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 6 2020 10:20 utc | 237

Yeah, Right @ 238

There are massive Brownie Points if you are the first to spot some reputation-ruining flaw in someone else's work

gosh, you make it all sound so harmless.

check this out. click on the image.

Posted by: john | May 6 2020 10:27 utc | 238

Russ #234

Good news that Ferguson has resigned. woopee. That clown has cost so many people livelihoods in every call over the past decade or two. He should be prosecuted like they prosecute pranksters who shout fire in crowded cinemas. Same level of callous criminality.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 6 2020 10:27 utc | 239

Yeah, Right # 226

Once that came out all the virologists of any note said they agreed with the findings.
I can't find any notable virologist who has disputed the conclusions and, obviously, neither could the Land Whale.

There goes another hat for me to eat. Still the upside is all the high fibre is a good thing. 🧢

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 6 2020 10:36 utc | 240

foolisholdman #218

the argument about human rights seems to me to be a distraction as human rights are no use to a corpse and a "Human Right" to waltz around infecting other people seems to me to be not worth fighting for.

YES to that one. Well said old man.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 6 2020 10:42 utc | 241

@240 john Pft claimed that Big Pharma and Big Gates can ensure that research scientists keep their lips sealed when one of their number publishes a paper that is flawed.

I'm pointing out that this is incorrect: prominent research scientists who read a paper that is flawed in its methodology and/or its conclusions are going to loudly proclaim that it is a load of bollocks, and are not going to be backward in shouting out exactly why it is flawed. No amount of money is going to stop that.

I am still convinced that I am correct, and Pft is mistaken.

Not sure what you are attempting to contribute to this particular point of disagreement.
Not a lot, by the look of things. Still, a striking photo, so thanks for that.


Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 10:47 utc | 242

Yeah, Right @ 244

i could give a rat's ass about your squabble with pft. did you click on the 'striking photo' and watch the 25 minute video?

Posted by: john | May 6 2020 11:00 utc | 243

@243 uncle tungsten Hmmm, yes, interesting discussion. I will point out that foolisholdman talked about "human rights", whereas Nathan Mulcahy was talking about "civil liberties", which are not necessarily the same thing.

But I think that Nathan's post has serious merit. It is akin to the old warriors stressing the difference between "strategy" and "tactics" when waging war.

Work out where you want to go, then work out the "best" way of getting there.

Always be prepared to change the latter as your knowledge, skill, resources and opportunities change, but only reluctantly accept that you may have to change the former.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 11:03 utc | 244

Yeah, Right #226

So take a look at the link in John #240

Tell us what you think. The hat munching is on hold for a while.

If the link disappears look up: PLANDEMIC Part 1 (Dr. Judy Mikovits)

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 6 2020 11:05 utc | 245

@245 john "i could give a rat's ass about your squabble with pft."

Then why did you address your post and its link to me?

If you wanted to make a dramatic point they you should have written a brand-new post addressed to everyone here.

"did you click on the 'striking photo' and watch the 25 minute video?"

I would if it was relevant to what I posted, but it isn't.

Mind you, if you had written a brand-new post asking everyone to look at that link coz' it's important then, yeah, I might.

But since you didn't.....


Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 11:11 utc | 246

Scientists are just like real people.

Taking delight in pointing out the sins of the other members of the congregation.

Scared shitless about mentioning glaring errors in sanctified dogma.

Anyway, isn't it exactly the redeeming quality of science that it rest on the inherent strength of arguments, not on the size of the authority proclaiming them? You don't have to be an ordained scientist to join the fun. Just download the papers (by the power of sci-hub) and study them diligently. Prepare to have your opinions scrutinized if you voice them and voilá, you are participating in science.

Posted by: Lurk | May 6 2020 11:19 utc | 247

Yeah, Right

you're right, apologies...

check it out.

Posted by: john | May 6 2020 11:21 utc | 248

@247 uncle tungsten I started watching it, but I don't much care for melodrama.

A quick look around the Internet tells me that Mikovits first gained notoriety when her signature paper on the underlying cause of chronic fatigue syndrome could not be replicated which Is Never A Good Look, if you take my drift.

Have a quick look here, and draw your own conclusions:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/chi-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-paper-10032011-story.html

The video that john links to looks to me to be a way-over-the-top attempt by Mikovits to claim victimhood because, obviously, it's much more comforting to claim a massive conspiracy than it is to accept that she just made her shit up.

But, then again, name me a single con-artist who doesn't?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 11:28 utc | 249

Lucci | May 6 2020 5:02 utc | 232

All states in Australia were in a Stage 3 lockdown.

Australia's Stage 3 lockdown

As of a couple of days ago some states eased their lockdowns, so sit somewhere between stage 2 & stage 3.
Where I am it is still stage 3.

I have presented the numbers. I have made no comment as to whether these numbers are the result of the lockdown, or whether the lockdown was justified.

At this point in time it is impossible to have a rational discussion in this comments section concerning the lifting of the lockdown.

Disclaimer: I have no desire to murder old people & babies.

Posted by: ted01 | May 6 2020 11:44 utc | 250

http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/patient-infecte-par-le-coronavirus-en-decembre-comme-des-coups-de-couteau-en-plein-thorax-05-05-2020-8311272.php

Some details about the French zero patient of December. Luckily for him, he went to the hospital as he had the fever (and did not wait for the respiratory problems) and was treated with Oxygen...

Posted by: Mina | May 6 2020 12:17 utc | 251

Yeah, Right @ 251 says:

The video that john links to looks to me to be a way-over-the-top attempt by Mikovits to claim victimhood because, obviously, it's much more comforting to claim a massive conspiracy than it is to accept that she just made her shit up

well, then there's this:

Criminal Charges Dropped

and this:

The Exoneration of Dr. Judy Mikovits, PhD

Posted by: john | May 6 2020 12:20 utc | 252

If we're going to investigate China, or go after them all guns blazing for a virus originating in that country, will we do the same in the future when other viruses (or antibiotic-resistant bacteria) originate in other countries?
And should other countries be investigated for ignoring warnings about pandemics over the past year or more?

Expand China investigation – most G20 countries ignored pandemic warning

Posted by: KW | May 6 2020 12:35 utc | 253

@256 john I'm sorry, what do criminal charges of "illegally taking computer data and related property from her former employer," have to do with her propensity to make up shit and present it as scientific research?

Those criminal charges - theft of property - are unrelated to her being caught red-handed making up the data in a paper she had published in a scientific journal. Theft of property is not the same thing as scientific fraud. They are two different issues.

Therefore the dropping of those criminal charges do not in any way "exonerate" her of her propensity to indulge in scientific fraud.

But you knew that, right?

And this:
"The Exoneration of Dr. Judy Mikovits, PhD"
which essentially consists of a series of interviews with..... Dr. Judy Mikovits.

Colour me unsurprised that Dr. Judy Mikovits is bold and fearless enough to stand up for Dr. Judy Mikovits and proudly proclaim Dr. Judy Mokovits' exoneration.

I'm meant to be impressed by that?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 13:17 utc | 254

@252 tedo1 "At this point in time it is impossible to have a rational discussion in this comments section concerning the lifting of the lockdown."

Nah, it's easy. I'm in Sydney and I've noticed there are more cars on the road and more people in the street. So even without any government lifting of the lockdown rules people here are acting on the assumption that the worst is behind them. The government really isn't going to have much choice but to start easing the restrictions.

As for lifting the lockdown, well, the lockdown itself was imposed in stages according (I assume) to a game-plan of softly-softly-catchy-monkey. The lifting of the lockdown orders will be carried out in the same way: a bit here, a bit there, and if everyone acts responsibly then the government will go from stage one to stage two to stage three.

What I have heard is that Sco-Mo has high hopes for the new phone app, and both Federal and State governments plan to move to what is essentially the Vietnam model of early detection accompanied by vigorous contact-tracing to catch the inevitable flareups before they get out of control.

It should work, so long as all the dirty backpackers don't fall back into their filthy habits and Justin Hemmes doesn't start up the rave parties too soon. Neither of which is a given.


Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 13:34 utc | 255

Plasma medical treatment for covid patients is doing very good in Mantova. It could really help

Posted by: y | May 6 2020 13:48 utc | 256

This clear understandable, non-technical, if longish YT from the “Last American Vagabond” guy (once you get used to his ‘staccato rant’ breathless delivery style) adroitly (and evenhandedly I think) demolishes a lot of the recent western Fake News and propaganda bullsh*t spewed from both Left and Right [eg. Zero Hedge] (ie Kim Jun-un’s death, Blame China etc.), and goes into some depth, with documentation, the multi-decade long background/history and multinational (US, EcoHealth NGO, Five Eyes, Tblisi , China, etc.) involvement and funding of the gain of function virus bioweapons research by multiple US administrations.

“The Reality Is That Both Obama & Trump Funded The Wuhan Lab, Fauci Is Just One Part Of That Problem”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHeA3FHBf1c&feature=youtu.be

He also explains with facts and documents the largely suppressed but widespread record of BSL3/4 lab accidents (1056 incident reports over 7 yr period) and contamination incidents at (not just at Ft. Detrick) inside as well as outside the US.

Posted by: gm | May 6 2020 14:37 utc | 257

Walter | May 5 2020 22:16 utc | 20

Any second now that sucker is going to collapse at free fall> (Sputnik)
"Massive Fire Breaks Out in 48-Story UAE Residential Skyscraper"

I get your sarcasm. Structural engineering is my field. No steel skyscraper has ever collapsed due to fire, and this one will be no exception.

Posted by: Norwegian | May 6 2020 14:50 utc | 258

@ foolisholdman | May 5 2020 20:12 utc | 218
@ uncle tungsten | May 6 2020 10:42 utc | 243
“….as human rights are no use to a corpse…”

I agree. At the same time, I wanted to bring in an important aspect in the discussion - which is the willingness of a society to let its personal freedom be curtailed by the authorities. That willingness is different in different societies, leading to different approaches that are possible.

As a compromise, I used the term “civil rights”. That too, is subject to criticism because a corpse doesn’t have any personal freedom either. But understand that I am proposing a simplified model to demonstrate that like all things in life, one cannot get it all – it is all about compromises. Here we have to compromise between our desire to have few deaths, retain our livelihood and retain personal freedom. Certainly one can find faults in all models – because all models are wrong, but some models are more useful than others. I hope this model is helpful.

--------------------------

@ Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 11:03 utc | 246

Thank you. I am no warrior, rather merely a retired scientist :)

Throughout my career I have done technology and product development but have always considered myself to be a “problem solver”. And always, after understanding what the problem is that needs to be solved, the two very first questions I have asked are: (a) what is/are the desired solution(s)/goal(s), and (b) what are the tools/approaches I can use to get to the solution? Only then I have asked the third question: what are the measurable parameters that I can use to monitor that the tools/approaches I am using are indeed leading me to the desired solution/goal?

We need RELEVANT PARAMETERS to assess whether the TOOLS/APPROACHES we are using are helping us reach the GOAL. The parameters are not the goal. And yet, I see too many people getting hyped about parameters, as if they were the goals – parameters such as: # of infected, R, Rt, R0, etc. Without a stated goal, you cannot know which parameters are relevant.

I live in MN where the situation is pretty good. But even here, people seem to think that maintaining a certain level of emergency room capacity is the goal, and that number is reported regularly. They are confusing a measurable parameter, albeit an important one, with the actual “goal”.

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | May 6 2020 14:57 utc | 259

@dimitrov #80
You clearly don't understand English, or what was posted or why.

Posted by: c1ue | May 6 2020 15:19 utc | 260

@uncle tungsten #101
Face masks *may* help a coughing person from spreading nCOV.
It doesn't help a person exposed to nCOV unless they are trained in how to put the mask on, take it off, sterilize it and not touch their face as much as possible.

I don't object to face mask rules primarily because they're low cost and relatively harmless - but SF just banned n95 face masks from public use. I really don't see why n95 face masks are worse than the half-assed, clearly unwashed cloth masks I see so many people wearing. Or glorified bandannas.

Far from clear that a simplistic "2 legs bad" type rule saying face masks are good, is actually a public health benefit. There are plenty of countries that have gotten nCOV under control without mandatory public face masks.

Posted by: c1ue | May 6 2020 15:23 utc | 261

You don't have to be an ordained scientist to join the fun. Just download the papers (by the power of sci-hub) and study them diligently. Prepare to have your opinions scrutinized if you voice them and voilá, you are participating in science.

Posted by: Lurk | May 6 2020 11:19 utc | 248

Yes to this. Persistent citizen-scientists suffering from ME, myalgic encephalomyelitis (the original name before "chronic fatigue syndrome" was invented), after years of effort, have succeeded in exposing the infamous PACE Trial as a complete fraud.

Unfortunately the man most responsible for the fraud, Regius Professor Sir Simon Wessely, is still protected by the establishment and even now is spouting nonsense about the corona virus epidemic. This is topical because some people will not fully recover from the virus. They may end up with ME (it usually starts with an infectious illness) and be sent to "chronic fatigue syndrome" clinics to get Sir Simon's favorite treatment: exercise and psychotherapy.

Sir Simon's precious PACE Trial actually shows that these "treatments" don't work for any kind of chronic fatigue, in spite of putting his thumbs on the scale, but he and the rest of his "school" insists it is a success, and Eminence Based Medicine rules the roost. Plus it helps that he is saying what his bosses want to hear. That always takes precedence over actual evidence.

People may be thinking, well, exercise is good for everything. Everybody "knows" that. The doctors lecture us all day every day about exercise, diet, sleep hygiene, thinking the right thoughts, etc. Nobody ever questions such obvious wisdom - that would be heresy!

But what if this "obvious truth" is wrong? What if activity of any kind (not just aerobic exercise) beyond one's capacity results in severe symptoms rather than increased capacity? In that case, they might have ME, and no amount of exercise or therapists telling patients to quit thinking the wrong thoughts will fix the problem.

The fact that the prescribed treatments fail, but are still prescribed, is bad. The fact that these useless treatments frequently harm patients (as shown by decades of patient surveys) is really bad. But by far the worst aspect is that our continuing illness is used as evidence that we are lazy glutinous grifters who don't deserve social support, financial support, or even basic medical care.

This is why I hate Fauci (and Sir Simon and a bunch of other frauds) so much: he has worked overtime to make sure NIH never has a real ME research program, and thinks it is just fine to stigmatize, demean, and abandon approx. 17 million patients worldwide, in order to save disability insurers from paying claims.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | May 6 2020 15:43 utc | 262

@ciue

Who beat the coronas, so far? China, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan. Only China made masks mandatory, but in above territories 99% people of people wear masks.

Maskphobic folks have the right to deny that is what did the trick, and have the right to volunteer for house arrest, but it's not reasonable for us to tell Chinese and Koreans and Japanese that they are imagining things.

In NYC we have death rates 3000 time worse than Hong Kong. It's time to learn from East Asia.

Posted by: mattjanovic | May 6 2020 15:57 utc | 263

but the virus is manmade. it's the product of capitalist extractive processes and capitalist food production and capitalist social organization. it's resolution will be capitalist world war.

so many people in the US are ready to jump on the "made in China" bandwagon for many US products, including our debt. why isn't our risible public health system also China's fault? aren't our miserable leaders also China's fault? our diabetic future? isn't that made in China too?

fuck the United States.

Posted by: jason | May 6 2020 16:08 utc | 264

>SF just banned n95 face masks from public use.

Early on, officials were making these sort of idiotic mindless rules in an effort to reserve N95s for medical personnel. One of the armed services made the same rule. Everyone has to wear a mask, but N95 is prohibited, even if the soldier bought it with their own money before the epidemic started.

This is how brain-dead bureaucracies always work. Rules are everything. Results are irrelevant. They don't know what to do, so they do what they know: make rules. The concept of an actual plan or creating a solution escapes them, as another poster noted above. A health problem is now a police problem, because that is what they know.

And how could it be otherwise? When states are created by violence to be a monopoly on violence, then violence, obedience, and rules are their only tactics.

But now the consent-manufacturing machine is breaking down and people are getting sick of being pushed around by cops enforcing what more and more people are viewing as mindless irrational rules. It doesn't matter if the rules are actually rational or not, the point is, if Joe Sixpack thinks the rules are irrational, he won't obey them for long. And that is happening now.

When large numbers of people become more afraid of hunger than they are of the police, all bets are off. Dear Leaders don't have much time left to get things stabilized a bit.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | May 6 2020 16:12 utc | 265

financial matters at 215, I agree, it points to gain-of-function-research (1). Of course “for a vaccine against HIV” sounds like the good guys at work - gain of function does not.

(Billions have been spent on hunting for a vaccine for HIV, without success. I thought ppl had given up on that as a first aim -> an offshoot is always possible.)

Yeah Right at 225 I read that Nature paper. Until recently I didn’t see evidence / think SarsCov2 was engineered, not that I excluded the possibility - now I am not so sure. Not a virologist, I can’t judge the banality vs. startling, suspicious or well-nigh impossible oddity of the 4-letter insertion.

Imho: had it been engineered and ‘escaped’ in some fashion (rogue..), the whole virological (and bact. plus other) research community would ignore or cover up, many of course quite sincerely, just the way ppl conform, blind themselves, obey superiors.

No Scientist, Group of, Lab, or Country, or other Authority would ever entertain that idea seriously publically (thru fear or deliberate deception), as it would spell the end of their funding, their jobs, their influence and power (see also Pft 226), not to mention their future plans, and might! lead to mass murder, with them on row 1 of the firing line.

I saw today that Chris Martenson has taken up the article (2), and gives a video explanation and commentary. (He doesn’t give enough credit to the orig. author.)

https://youtu.be/uZUJhKUbd0k

1. aka how to make viruses more deathly, is this bio-war-fare or legit?

2. Medium. https://bit.ly/3bdGski


Posted by: Noirette | May 6 2020 16:15 utc | 266

c1ue | May 6 2020 15:23 utc | 263 :"SF just banned n95 face masks from public use"

Is this an overgeneralization? Or have they changed the rules?

N95 respirator masks with exhalation valve don't comply with SF mask regs as they do not protect other people but N95 masks with no exhalation valve comply with city regulations. (Reported in SF paper April 27, 2020)

Posted by: suzan | May 6 2020 16:21 utc | 267

>Or have they changed the rules?

Whatever the rules are today, they will be different tomorrow. Chaos reigns supreme. And well deserved, too.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | May 6 2020 16:31 utc | 268

Yeah, Right @ 255

Therefore the dropping of those criminal charges do not in any way "exonerate" her of her propensity to indulge in scientific fraud

her propensity to indulge in scientific fraud is borderline libel. though the case is kind of convoluted, she's never been convicted of fraud, and i'd say her reputation in general warrants a lot more seriousness than you're offering.

considering what she's up against, my bias remains in her favour, but, yeah, i'm certainly no molecular biologist.

Posted by: john | May 6 2020 16:57 utc | 269

Norwegian | May 6 2020 14:50 utc | 260 Yes. I know they don't collapse. And when they do collapse it's a really expert job to make it happen...forklifts and delivery trucks and a well-disciplined crew of experienced experts and specialized engineers with the building drawings and as-builts, and the "special materials" like ya need thermites, thermats, the moulds, the fuzes. Ahem, unless of course they get hit by airplanes...that makes all the difference.

I retired from the skilled trades. I know what I saw, brother, so do you.

Posted by: Walter | May 6 2020 18:40 utc | 270

@Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 10:00 utc | 237

You[, Pft,] very obviously have not spent time around research scientists.
Their greatest delight is catching out one of their colleagues committing a howler.
There are massive Brownie Points if you are the first to spot some reputation-ruining flaw in someone else's work.

I see Pft is up to his old tricks again. In order to suck people in, he usually tells the truth, but once he has you nodding in agreement he inserts a lethal lie. He's like someone who hands out crispy apples to kids on Halloween, but he's inserted cyanide into some of those gifts.

Posted by: Cyril | May 6 2020 20:16 utc | 271

> i'd say her [Mikovits] reputation in general warrants a lot more seriousness than you're offering.

Her reputation among most ME patients is in the toilet. Here is the money shot from the Chicago Tribune article above:

Even so, some patients paid for non-FDA-approved blood tests for XMRV, and some reported taking antiretroviral drugs.

Her fraudulent work led directly to financial harm to a patient population that mostly can barely afford the necessities of life, not to mention possible adverse effects of antiretroviral drugs that were completely useless.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | May 6 2020 20:20 utc | 272

@270 john "though the case is kind of convoluted, she's never been convicted of fraud, "

No, sorry, that is a misleading statement. I am talking about "scientific fraud", which is contemptable but is not necessarily a crime. Talking about "being convicted" can only mean that you are talking about "criminal fraud".

They are not the same thing.

One example: "scientific fraud" seldom has a money value to it i.e. typically you aren't lying in order to relieve someone of their money, so criminal charges is not really an option.

More likely you are lying because you are stupid and lazy, or dogmatic and desperate, but the underlying motive tends to be a desire for prestige. The remedy is therefore the loss of that prestige i.e. your career is in ruins and your reputation is in tatters.

That is what happened to Mikovits - she made shit up in a paper that was accepted by a very prestigious journal, and once she was found out then she was sacked and her reputation was irretrievably lost. And all of the links you have sent me represent nothing more than her attempts to extract revenge on those whom she believes were responsible for that.

She will fail, for the simple reason that she was responsible for that.


Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 6 2020 21:37 utc | 273

john #253
Yeah, Right and others

I am not interested in the exoneration of Mikovits. That may or may not arise.

The accusation against the CDC, Fauci and Gallo were of interest and I can see a clear or potential conflict of interest and a high probability of corrupt practice. The fact that the scientific press pulled her paper rather than publish it (in the interests of scientific debate, challenge, repetition of experiment etc) was disturbing in my world view.

Fauci and Gallo's financial interests seem intertwined.

Why hasn't the CDC after so many decades of research and $Billions expenditure come up with a medicine for the afflicted and sufferers of corona-virus in general. Stupidly chasing the profitable at the expense of the people!

So lets take a close look through all the dust in the air and seek answers to question of institutionalised corruption and malfeasance.

Is there an Inspector General in the CDC?
Can you trust that office if it exists?
Can a President establish a commission of inquiry into extraordinary allegations that go to the essence of public safety and trust?
Would Trump get off his fat arse and do such a thing?

I doubt it. System fail!

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 6 2020 23:30 utc | 274

Noirette #203

Acclaimed Harvard Scientist Is Arrested, Accused Of Lying About Ties To China

Thank you for that very interesting peek into Harvard.

For a minute there I thought USA national security was at risk like it was with the Awan family spy and blackmail ring that operated throughout the Congress under the tutelage of Debbie Wasserman Schultz. In this Charles Lieber case the DOJ in Boston appears to be right onto it. Not so the DOJ in Florida and Debbie or in Washington re the Awan family spy network. There appears to be an uneven spread of justice in the USA but a very predictable and level playing field for injustice.

Perhaps the spectre of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg is being summonsed by the cabal of '86.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 7 2020 8:10 utc | 275

re uncle tungsten | May 7 2020 8:10 utc | 276

AFAICT the only thing Lieber, the chair of Harvard University's Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology is guilty of is behaving as he hs been indoctrinated to behave. Back in 2012, when he signed the contract with the Chinese uni (count how many times the american fishwrap says Wuhan to help embed the antipathy) amerika and China were like a pig and shit, they were getting on so well. Lieber cut a deal that was good for him. Every amerikan's dream.
There hasn't been any suggestion Lieber 'leaked' any secrets, tho natch the insinuation is there, nor, that anything else he did was untoward, except the feds allege, without evidence, that his contract was under the auspices of "the Thousand Talents Plan", whereas he maintains it was not.

Even though Lieber should get off under even the most oppressive reading of 'prove he did wrong' since there is no proof, I have little doubt he will be kippered. Not because he is a traitor, or even a greedy man.but because insistent brainwashing over the last few years that "China isn't a friend" it is an enemy because it is better at business than 'us', Lieber is screwed innocent or not, and few will argue with that, lest they too end up on the wrong side of a paid to be crooked grand jury. Tell me again which side is the evil bastard.

Ain't it swell to live where everyone else reckons doing business with someone who may not be kosher is a crime punishable by total ruination, no matter what the climate was at the time you did the deal. Moral relativism has been superseded by legal relativism.
Get outta my way! those yellafellas won't be able to keep up in a world we (amerika) control. 'Cept of course it doesn't, the current amerikan take of "it's correct because I say it is" just cannot last one minute in the real world.

Posted by: A User | May 7 2020 9:30 utc | 276

Yeah, Right @ 274

More likely you are lying because you are stupid and lazy, or dogmatic and desperate,...

says you who have drawn and quartered the good dr. based on a 10-year-old article from the Chicago Tribune, its very title stating, 'Manipulation alleged'

as i said, the case is convoluted, but imho it's clearly a whistleblower one, with very powerful forces involved, but yeah, i'm biased, and certainly don't have the blind faith in the medical dictatorship that you have.

maybe we should read her new book. whaddaya say?

Posted by: john | May 7 2020 10:30 utc | 277

Yeah, Right

for what it's worth, i see the video that i initially linked to has been removed from YT.

Posted by: john | May 7 2020 10:48 utc | 278

Yeah, Right

and just to remind you that there are indeed at least two sides to every argument, please use the 'look inside' feature at amazon and read Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s foreword to Dr. Mikovits new book...

Moral Courage and Our Common Future

Posted by: john | May 7 2020 13:21 utc | 279

All the sudden attention to Mikovits is very strange. Retraction Watch has noted the increase, which has grown so large that their server is overloaded. I wanted to link to their article, but their server is *still* overloaded.

Even as I write this, NPR is talking about...Mikovits. And her crappy research. There is just no way to get around the facts:
1. She claimed to find XMRV in the blood of ME patients (which the US media insists on calling "chronic fatigue syndrome").
2. Her paper was published in a high-profile journal.
3. NIH and others immediately funded replication trials, which all failed. Later shown to be lab contamination.
4. Diagrams in her paper showed up in other settings with different labels, etc.
5. The journal asked for voluntary retraction, she refused.
6. The journal imposed retraction, a rare event in scientific publishing.

The whole story is on Retraction Watch

Note that none of the above has anything to do with allegations against Fauci. He should be fired. And his boss NIH Director Francis Collins, who has been completely absent from public view, should be retired due to incompetence, in particular his failure to actually run his own agency, thus allowing Fauci to run rampant.

For a decade I have been trying to understand the politics around ME research. It is a long and tangled tale almost never discussed outside of patient forums and tiny scientific research networks. Now the names of people I have long despised are all over the media and the internets. It's a bit surreal. I hope the controversy prods people to look a little closer at the scientific research industry. They will be surprised at the extent of the rot and how unreliable the scientific knowledge base has become.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | May 7 2020 16:13 utc | 280

re Lieber research

I read in Feb that Lieber’s work involves the identification of viruses through the use of nanotechnoloy. Besides the detention and eventual release of Lieber, one of his students was arrested in January (iirc) at Boston airport for attempting to transport samples of tissue from Boston to China, his home. The samples were described as brownish lung tissue in test tubes. The article also mentioned that another of Lieber's students had successfully transported similar samples — based on second student’s testimony? The silencing of Lieber is probably related to curation of official narrative. I don’t have link, sorry. Found it through general duck search.

Posted by: suzan | May 7 2020 16:45 utc | 281

Trailer Trash @ 281

All the sudden attention to Mikovits is very strange

not really. her book came out 3 weeks ago. the one i've already linked to a couple of times.

Posted by: john | May 7 2020 17:46 utc | 282

>not really. her book came out 3 weeks ago.

So it has all been arranged by her publisher? Well, maybe I'll read it after I read books by Michelle Oblamblam, Madeleine "Kill All the Kids" Albright, and Killary Clinton.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | May 7 2020 18:47 utc | 283

Trailer Trash @ 284

don't sweat it, dude. stick with NPR.

Posted by: john | May 7 2020 19:57 utc | 284

Has no one noted French news media reports that French military athletes at Wuhan games got Covid-19 virus in October? Here is report on that report: [about 3 minutes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19vgzjPq2T8

Posted by: vhu teh | May 8 2020 2:32 utc | 285

@278 john "says you who have drawn and quartered the good dr. based on a 10-year-old article from the Chicago Tribune, its very title stating, 'Manipulation alleged'"

Not just on the basis of that. I have other articles....

john: "as i said, the case is convoluted,"...

Nah, it is as-simple-as:
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/333/6038/35.1
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/334/6057/814
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/334/6063/1636.1

john: ..."but imho it's clearly a whistleblower one,"...

Nah, very definitely not:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/scientist-vaccine-jailed/

Now, so sorry, it took me all of 15 minutes to google up all those links.
And, heck, none of my links have been taken down for violating community rules.

Odd, that.... I guess I just my sources are just more credible than yours.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 8 2020 4:51 utc | 286

@280 "and just to remind you that there are indeed at least two sides to every argument, please use the 'look inside' feature at amazon and read Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s foreword to Dr. Mikovits new book..."

I need to remind you that Mikovits' ex-reputation lies in the sciences, and despite whatever other merits Robert F. Kennedy Jr. may possess, "science" is not one of them.

He is an attorney. He is also a rabid proponent of a non-existent links between vaccination and autism.

So am I surprised that a pseudoscience adherent would write a glowing forward for a book written by a known scientific fraud that consists of a farrago of pseudoscience and baseless accusations of scientific malfeasance?

No, not at all. Birds of a feather will stick together.

You want to know what I think of "that side" of the story?
Just go here: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/scientist-vaccine-jailed/
and here: https://www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2020/05/who-is-judy-mikovits-and-what-does-she-have-to-do-with-anthony-fauci-and-the-coronavirus.html
(The first is by far the more detailed of the two)

This is very, very, very simple: Mikovits was trained as a scientist, and when she was caught making her shit up her career as a scientist was over.
Q: So what is left for a disgraced scientist?
A: Well, there is used-car sales. Or real estate. Of a second career as a muck-raker in the muddier end of the pseudoscience pool.

Good for her. At least it doesn't involve ripping people of... oh, wait, yes it does....

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 8 2020 5:09 utc | 287

This is going to be my last word on this subject.

For those who "want to believe" that Mikovits is anything other than a disgraced scientist who is now slumming it in the conspiracy-theory world, I present two articles for your reading pleasure.

Here is a nice easy-to-read fact-checking article:
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/may/08/fact-checking-plandemic-documentary-full-false-con/

Here is a much more detailed boots-and-all mugging of the Good Doctor Mikovits:
https://respectfulinsolence.com/2020/05/06/judy-mikovits-pandemic/

I rest my case.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 8 2020 5:55 utc | 288

Yeah, Right @ 287

I guess I just my sources are just more credible than yours

well, we all know that snopes is the most notorious disinformation outlet on the internet, but, whatever...

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s thesis is that Dr. Mikovits is the victim of a massive smear campaign, and if you read his foreword to her book(free at amazon) he offers mucho background...

but yeah, let's leave it at that...for the time being.

Posted by: john | May 8 2020 9:22 utc | 289

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s thesis is that Dr. Mikovits is the victim of a massive smear campaign

Robert Kennedy jr is a lawyer specialized in environmental law.

Dr. Mikovits is a fraudulant scientist who has been caught faking experiements and manipulating graphics in her 'scientifc' papers on a virus that does not exist in humans.

Her crackpot theories about covid-19 make no sense for anyone who has a moderate insight in how the human immune system works. That some libertarians promote her only shows their worthlessness.

Posted by: b | May 8 2020 11:06 utc | 290

@291 b "Robert Kennedy jr is a lawyer specialized in environmental law."

He is also a very significant player in the "anti-vaccine" movement.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 8 2020 12:25 utc | 291

@290 "well, we all know that snopes is the most notorious disinformation outlet on the internet"

We do, do we?

Is that the "royal we", or are you using that word in its more, ahem, presumptuous meaning?

Did you notice that at the bottom of that snopes article there is a line labelled "sources"?
Handy-dandy little arrow on that line. You would be well-advised to click on it.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | May 8 2020 12:33 utc | 292

b

well now, the Mikovits case is getting mucho special attention, isn't it? very interesting.

thanks for making your position, unsubstantiated though it is, perfectly clear.

Posted by: john | May 8 2020 12:53 utc | 293

@John - You can read the retraction notice of her paper (she was the "corresponding author") in Science

Detection of an Infectious Retrovirus, XMRV, in Blood Cells of Patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

Science is fully retracting the report “detection of an infectious retrovirus, XMRV, in blood cells of patients with chronic fatigue syndrome” (1). Multiple laboratories, including those of the original authors (2), have failed to reliably detect xenotropic murine leukemia virus–related virus (XMRV) or other murine leukemia virus (MLV )–related viruses in chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) patients. In addition, there is evidence of poor quality control in a number of specific experiments in the Report. Figure 1, table S1, and fig. S2 have been retracted by the authors (3). In response to concerns expressed about Fig. 2C [summarized in (4)], the authors acknowledged to Science that they omitted important information from the legend of this figure panel. Specifically, they failed to indicate that the CFS patient–derived peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) shown in Fig. 2C had been treated with azacytidine as well as phytohemagglutinin and interleukin-2. This was in contrast to the CFS samples shown in Figs. 2A and 2B, which had not been treated with azacytidine.

Given all of these issues, Science has lost confidence in the Report and the validity of its conclusions.

I am not going to trust a 'scientist' who 'invented' a virus, has faked her research and omitted important information in her paper to come to her fake conclusions.

Posted by: b | May 8 2020 13:02 utc | 294

b

I am not going to trust a 'scientist' who 'invented' a virus, has faked her research and omitted important information in her paper to come to her fake conclusions

no, not even without listening to her version? according to Robert Kennedy Jr. she was offered full exoneration by her former boss if she just signed an apology admitting her paper was wrong. she refused.

why would she do that?

why has no prosecutor ever filed charges against her? why has the US Attorney in Nevada kept the case 'under seal' for years?

could the Science journal possibly be captive to the pharmaceutical cartel?

something stinks.

Posted by: john | May 8 2020 14:48 utc | 295

All, I think all of this baseless speculation that b has been summarily executed and stuffed into a suitcase so that the security services could hijack his heretofore anti-establishment blog as part of a global information suppression campaign in support of a global bio-terrorism event is largely unwarranted.

As we all know, b has always supported everything the establishment and its praetorian guard security services have done. b knows we've always been at war with covid-19, just like when covid-19 hijacked those planes on that fateful September morning in 2001, or when covid-19 blew up those busses in London, or even when covid-19 blew up bombs at that train station, or in Bali, or wherever.

The war has always been against covid-19, and to try to argue to the contrary is a de facto pledge of allegiance to covid-19.

Posted by: Barton Fink | May 8 2020 15:26 utc | 296

uncle tungsten and A User 277,

Uncle, those Awan guys and gals were just over the top, amazing. User that was interesting - but what was the motive then for his arrest? I found it all most puzzling.

There was also, July 2019 (imho …speculation, around the time COV19 floated out or jumped to homo sapiens) this:

Mystery surrounds ouster of Chinese researchers from Canadian laboratory

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/07/mystery-surrounds-ouster-chinese-researchers-canadian-laboratory

For ‘breach of protocol’? What did these ppl do? Again, total mystery. The woman targetted…worked on the Ebola virus. Usually when top level academics are thrown out / arrested / deported etc. (extremely rare in any case) it is because their crimes can’t be hidden, ex. lovely-lady body parts in the mega freezer. Even financial trickery / fraud / embezzlement most often takes the form of “suggestions and hopes not promises we could not fulfill are you seriously challenging our stellar expertise and show us the contract go get s****” :)

Posted by: Noirette | May 8 2020 15:57 utc | 297

Gain of Function

Interesting discussion. There will need to be a Public Inquiry into why Obama halted funding for Gain of Function experiments in Wuhan, and what role Dr Fauci at NIH had. After such a major disaster there needs to be a proper inquiry into Western lassitude in Decmeber/January 2020 and why catastrophic storage reserves at NATO were so inadequate

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 8 2020 17:01 utc | 298

@John

no, not even without listening to her version? according to Robert Kennedy Jr. she was offered full exoneration by her former boss if she just signed an apology admitting her paper was wrong. she refused.

why would she do that?

why has no prosecutor ever filed charges against her? why has the US Attorney in Nevada kept the case 'under seal' for years?

could the Science journal possibly be captive to the pharmaceutical cartel?

Her study was utterly debunked. She had screwed up her laboratory tests and some mice virus debris contaminated the human cell cultures of some patients she tested. She then concluded that the mice virus must be responsible for the disease that those patients had.

She faked that up into a scientific paper that was debunked. Several other studies proved that her conclusions were nonsense.

Overview of a Peer-Reviewed Scientific Report
“Absence of Evidence of Xenotropic Murine Leukemia Virus-Related Virus Infection in Persons with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Healthy Controls in the United States”
by William Switzer, Hongwei Jia, Oliver Hohn, et al. Retrovirology 2010, 7:57 (July 1, 2010)

What does Robert Kennedy, a lawyer and anti-vaxxer, actually know about anything?

Why she continued to stick to her false claims is a question you will have to ask her.

Charges against her were filed. A trial was held but interrupted because of some political donation scandal and the criminal prosecution was eventually dropped. I do not know if the case was held under seal. Who claims that?

The fake paper had nothing to do with pharmaceuticals but was basic research and its retraction by Science had nothing to do with pharmaceuticals but with fake science.

That she now comes up with a very fast written book that sells well despite making nonsense claims about the current crisis and a video to promote it should give some thoughts about her real motives.

Posted by: b | May 8 2020 18:55 utc | 299

exiled off mainstree | May 4 2020 20:49 utc | 30

Meanwhile,I think the fact that the numbers of new infections and deaths have been dropping slightly in the US lately exposes the New York Times article as more scare-tactic modelling,
The figure has "dropped" from 26,753 to 30,303 in the six days since you wrote.

Posted by: foolisholdman | May 10 2020 16:26 utc | 300

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