Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 06, 2020

U.S. Will Cover-up Its Own Coronavirus Death Toll

The Trump administration has used the novel coronavirus pandemic to malign its perceived enemies. Now as the U.S. itself is at the center of the pandemic the accusations and lies come back to bite.

On March 21 the Daily Beast reported of an upcoming propaganda campaign the White House was launching against China:

As the number of coronavirus cases continues to grow at a rapid pace in the U.S., the White House is launching a communications plan across multiple federal agencies that focuses on accusing Beijing of orchestrating a “cover-up” and creating a global pandemic, according to two U.S. officials and a government cable obtained by The Daily Beast.

The cable, sent to State Department officials Friday, lays out in detail the circumstances on the ground in China, including data on coronavirus cases and deaths, the local business environment and transportation restrictions. But it also issues guidelines for how U.S. officials should answer questions on, or speak about, the coronavirus and the White House’s response in relation to China.

The talking points appear to have originated in the National Security Council. One section of the cable reads “NSC Top Lines: [People’s Republic of China] Propaganda and Disinformation on the Wuhan Virus Pandemic.”

Soon the mainstream media started to spread the new talking points. A Google News search for the search term "China Cover-up" now finds 449.000 results.

On April 1 Bloomberg was called up by "officials" to reinforce the campaign by attributing the claim of a cover-up of China's case and death numbers to a "secret U.S. intelligence report". That report is unlikely to exist at all because the New York Times reported a day later that the CIA hunt for "authentic numbers" of deaths in China was still ongoing and failing:

So far, to the frustration of both the White House and the intelligence community, the agencies have been unable to glean more accurate numbers through their collection efforts.

We used the Bloomberg report to explain that the case fatality numbers, which China reported correctly, are very different from the total number of fatalities, or excess deaths, an epidemic causes. There was no cover-up by China but naturally incomplete reporting of all deaths. A day later the BBC published a similar explainer piece.

On April 3 the Economist also discussed wrong fatality numbers though it had found those in Italy and Spain: Covid-19’s death toll appears higher than official figures suggest. It also made this snarky cover-up remark:

[W]hen Hurricane Maria struck Puerto Rico in 2017, America recorded only 64 deaths. A study later found that the surge in total deaths was close to 3,000. Many occurred in hospitals that lost power.

The excess deaths from Covid-19 in certain areas of Spain and Italy appear to be up to three times higher than the officially reported deaths.


bigger

As the U.S. is now in its own catastrophic phase of the outbreak the media are finally waking up to the fact that their claim of China's "cover-up" is bullshit.

Today both the New York Times as well as the Washingon Post report that the U.S. is "covering-up" the number of death that the pandemic  causes within its borders. The NYT headlines: The U.S. is undercounting the number of people who have died in the pandemic, experts say.

Doctors now believe that some deaths in February and early March were likely misidentified as influenza or only described as pneumonia.

Even under typical circumstances, public health experts say that it takes months or years to compile data that is as accurate as possible on deaths in infectious outbreaks.

The Post headlines: Coronavirus death toll: Americans are almost certainly dying of covid-19 but being left out of the official count

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention counts only deaths in which the presence of the coronavirus is confirmed in a laboratory test. “We know that it is an underestimation,” agency spokeswoman Kristen Nordlund said.

A widespread lack of access to testing in the early weeks of the U.S. outbreak means people with respiratory illnesses died without being counted, epidemiologists say. Even now, some people who die at home or in overburdened nursing homes are not being tested, according to funeral directors, medical examiners and nursing home representatives.

The U.S.already "covered-up" Covid-19 casualties by not testing enough. And the U.S. CDC will now do exactly what China has done during the outbreak in Hubei province. It will only report confirmed cases and the fatalities thereof. That is exactly the "cover-up" the U.S. has accused China of.

Another Covid-19 story had been used to denigrate Iran when the Washington Post mocked the country about a row a fresh dug graves in Qom that were "visible from space" just like about everything else is:

In Qom, the spiritual center of Iran’s ruling Shiite clerics, more than 846 people have contracted the virus, officials say. Iran’s government has not released an official death toll for Qom, however, where about 1.2 million people live. But videos, satellite images and other open-source data from the cemetery — a vast complex six miles north of the city center — suggest that the number of people struck down by the virus there is significantly higher than the official figure.

Now the rows of graves "visible from space" are coming to the U.S. itself. The Chair of the New York city council sadly announced that the casualties of the epidemic will soon be temporarily buried in public parks:

Mark D. Levine @MarkLevineNYC - 1:33 UTC · Apr 6, 2020

Grieving families report calling as many as half a dozen funeral homes and finding none that can handle their deceased loved ones.
Cemeteries are not able to handle the number of burial requests and are turning most down. 4/

It’s not just deaths in hospitals which are up. On an average day before this crisis there were 20-25 deaths at home in NYC. Now in the midst of this pandemic the number is 200-215. *Every day*. 5/

Early on in this crisis we were able to swab people who died at home, and thus got a coronavirus reading. But those days are long gone. We simply don't have the testing capacity for the large numbers dying at home. 6/

Now only those few who had a test confirmation *before* dying are marked as victims of coronavirus on their death certificate. This almost certainly means we are undercounting the total number of victims of this pandemic. 7/

And still the number of bodies continues to increase. The freezers at OCME facilities in Manhattan and Brooklyn will soon be full. And then what? 8/

Soon we'll start “temporary interment”. This likely will be done by using a NYC park for burials (yes you read that right). Trenches will be dug for 10 caskets in a line.

It will be done in a dignified, orderly--and temporary--manner. But it will be tough for NYers to take. 9/

New York will continue to have a high death rate for some time while Iran now has a gradual decline of new cases. A beautiful light show (vid) was projected on the Azadi tower in Tehran to honor the fight against the virus.

Iran is also contributing to the research of the disease.

A large scale Iranian study found that three quarter of those who had milder symptoms of Covid-19 reported also a very sudden smell blindness and sometimes also a loss of taste. The ability to smell recovered only very slowly. Other research suggests that a specific type of cells in the olfactory bulb might be the first place where the SARS-CoV-2 virus attacks before it moves into the throat and then deeper into the body. Even people who did not fall ill, but were living with ill members in their family, often reported a loss of smell.

Those who experience a sudden loss of smell should therefore immediately isolate themselves to not infect others.

Posted by b on April 6, 2020 at 17:21 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Posted by: Krollchem | Apr 7 2020 3:27 utc | 102 Both models do not take into consideration secondary outbreaks outside the response window. Models change as more information is available and should be included in the assumptions.

Agreed. Thanks for your comments.

I was aware of Pueyo's articles. I posted his last one here before b did. I find it interesting that he endorses this model - not that endorsements matter to me, particularly. I do think the logic in his articles makes sense. I haven't seen anyone debunk any of it sufficiently as yet.

Your 5 points are likely correct - especially the one about the culture not following the rules (which doesn't surprise me, as I'm not much of a rule follower either.) I see that every day here - and until my masks and plastic gloves come in, I pretty much can't either - but I intend to.

I'm not going to follow any of these models in detail as that would take up way too much of my time - more than I already spend on the subject.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 7 2020 7:09 utc | 101

@116

contrary to your understanding PCR test kits in HK and Singapore are also in relatively short supply. There are ways to work around it with targeted testing by contact tracing.

sadly that ship had sailed for a lot of places.

p.s. the only country that was able to ramp up testing by rallying their biotech sector for test kits sufficiency (and quickly) is SK. China too to a degree but they had no warning and a much larger pop you deal with.

A lot of provinces in China a worker needs to carry a "passport" on their cell phone to prove their health before going back to work. No doubt we'll hear more in the MSM about this dictatorial population control...

Posted by: A.L. | Apr 7 2020 7:42 utc | 102

Sorry - there are too many inconsistencies in the Covid-19 story. Predicted death tolls revised down from 1.5 m in the US to 100k to 200k, 500k to 10k-20k in the UK,overall European mortality in the first three months of the year no higher than average, the 'inability' to test widely for the virus (presumably because Iceland tested its entire population and found 50% of people had already had the virus and of those all had experienced no or mild to moderate symptom...which is counter to The Narrative), the instruction to doctors to list Covid-19 as a cause of death without autopsy wherever they think its 'possible' it might have been a contributory - oh, and then there's Sweden...they're still not locked down so, with this plague being so deadly an'all...well, they should all be dead: in fact they've a lower per capita rate of infections than the US,plus why (at least three months in) has this deadly, deadly virus still killed less people an average winter flu season???? And then there's absolutely no mainstream discussion of the consequences of shutting down modern, interconnected economies. The assumption seems to be that they'll be closed monday and opened tuesday as if nothing had happened. Wrong. Modern economies are complex systems, they're robust up to a point (which we're now well beyond) and then they simply implode catastrophically. Along with the lack of discussion about the economic cost of lockdowns there is no discussion of the human cost - the destroyed relationships, the domestic abuse, the lost jobs, shattered lives and broken dreams, the future of our children sacrificed, the cancer patients whose treatment has been suspended...a tidal wave of despair and neglect that ultimately will translate into millions of people dying (far, far more than the virus will kill) - here's a thought...every day 3000 children in India die of starvation, and that's with a 'functioning' economy, how far is that figure going to rise now India is locked down and in the coming lockdown inspired global depression? Lockdowns are sentencing millions to death for a virus that is, in effect, a cold virus that, in the vast majority, will kill mostly old people (just like the flu does, every year). To our eternal shame, we are the first generation of humanity EVER to sacrifice the lives of our children to save the old. Covid-19 is nothing more than a massive propaganda operation to ensure controlled destruction of the economy to the benefit of the usual suspects (clue...if you've lost your job, do you think that if its offered back to you it will be for the same wage, or less...or...are all those independent stores and restaurants going to open again or will they remain shut, their market share taken by Amazon and Walmart)...

https://richardhennerley.com/2020/03/29/the-new-crown-virus-a-coronavirus-parable/

Posted by: Richard | Apr 7 2020 7:44 utc | 103

Posted by: Walter | Apr 6 2020 17:51 utc | 6
Posted by: Walter | Apr 6 2020 18:55 utc | 14
".... remember the lies... It cannot achieve the grand goal. It must, in Time, retreat. Then it must undergo Changes.... Regions will ask Chine and Rus to help.... "russian interference" while obviously a bald lie ( now ), shall occur in the future, also Chine assist also in Future."

China's Win-Win: I eat. You eat. We all eat.
US's Win-Lose: I eat. Israel eats. All others feed us.
US 50-Year Plan: Destroy China, Russia, Iran, Syria
US 10-Year Plan: Save Venezuela by destroying it, stop drug runners, keep the oil.
Other People's Plan: Destroy the USD so they cannot make missiles with paper IOUs.

Any scheme that requires ever-increasing amounts of violence, control fraud, duplicity must finally fail. Eating other people's lunch forever, and worse, helping another nation eat other people's lunch forever is unsustainable. Any entity that tries, no matter how exceptionally uniquely indispensable, must fail, and even be split asunder by its own contradictions.

"Enemies" such as Russia and China will be invited by the former US Regions onto American soil to help, and they will. Far better to teach the Evil Empire to have homegrown lunches than to have them racing around the globe stealing and robbing in the name of the good American citizens.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Apr 7 2020 7:45 utc | 104

@all -

I brushed through the tread and cleaned out a lot of insulting or stupid comments.

Those who do not behave in an acceptable manner will get thrown out of this bar.

Posted by: b | Apr 7 2020 8:27 utc | 105

Thanks "b" for one more of Your as-almost-always eccellent overviews and summing-ups of select aspects of recent developments! But one should add one aspect to it all: Realistic statistics are very often rather counter-intuitive.
One of the first laureates to be awarded the Economics parallel to the Nobel Prizes was the Norwegian Haavelsmo -- for contributions to statistical "cross run analysis" (Kräutzlaufs-Analyze). He liked to point out the extreme close statistical correlation between the timing of arrivals of tourists in the scenic fjord country of Western Norway with the sudden increase in the wasp and fly insect population numbers. And then point out that there was not any direct cause-effect relationship straight on between these two sets of occurences, even though the untrained eye might well perceive it thus.
Much of the mayhem of misconceptions about the present pandemic stem from lack of statistical sophistication -- not only amongst the ordinary people, but also very often amongst medical doctors, who have only rudimentary training in statistics. The word "statistics" or "Statistik" stems from the wortd "state" and was developed as an instrument of rulership. Just like "kypernethik" means "helmsmanship"

Posted by: Oū Sī / 區司/ Usman | Apr 7 2020 8:46 utc | 106

The grand plague called the "Black Death" that smothered Europe 1347-1352 also started as biological warfare: Beleaguered Venetians in a castle on the Crimea catapulted their dead comrades over into the camp of their Tuscan and (especially) Genovese enemies who braught that plague along to Europe with tair returning ships.
The Venetians motto: "Primo son Venedano, secundo son cristano" (Firs of all Venetian, (and only) secondwise a Christian) . Those insurance brokers recognize this about themselves to the very present day if you ask them.

Posted by: Oū Sī / 區司/ Usman | Apr 7 2020 8:58 utc | 107

@B 106

Where exactly was my comment insulting stupid or offensive?
I provided links to expert opinions that didnt match the current narrative, I would like to know why was my comment deleted?

Posted by: Ario | Apr 7 2020 9:41 utc | 108

108 the veinitens where very weird, I never understood them in history where they like Jews? Or something

Posted by: Bob burger | Apr 7 2020 10:24 utc | 109

Interesting article (albeit six days old) on which Bay Area county gives the best information to its public.

As expected, San Francisco provides next to nothing...

What Bay Area COVID-19 stats can you get? It depends on where you live
https://tinyurl.com/srgxpl9

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 7 2020 10:27 utc | 110

A comparison of the number of cases and rate of increase in cases between San Francisco, which imposed a lockdown early, and Los Angeles, which didn't.

As San Francisco imposed coronavirus shelter-in-place rules, Los Angeles waited
https://tinyurl.com/uf8cdpn


As of Sunday, Los Angeles County had reported 5,940 positive cases and 132 deaths. The rate of reported infections increased by 12.6% from the previous day. San Francisco had 568 cases and eight deaths, with reported infections up 7.4% Sunday.

“That’s the big question. Where are we on the epidemic wave?” Bennett said. “It looks like in San Francisco, we are starting to level off. We are still seeing new cases, but not as high a rate as prior days. So that could reflect that we are further along on the epidemic curve than other parts of California.”

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 7 2020 10:33 utc | 111

I live in chicago, the funny thing is black people are the only ones who see what this is, bullshit, they are not social distancing, people are playing basketball in the parks having parties, the cops tried several times to stop large groupings but where told to F OFF, THEY SEE THIS IS JUST A SCAM. I guess if you been messed with so long you can see an evil scam a mile away

Posted by: Bob burger | Apr 7 2020 10:36 utc | 112

@ Bob Burger, I thought that in Chicago it is also the black people who are performing most of the dying bit. But maybe they're zen about that too.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 7 2020 10:39 utc | 113

Another article on the status of the Bay Area. Some people are very guardedly optimistic, others are not sure whether the difference is just the variations in testing levels.

A glimmer of hope in the Bay Area: New coronavirus cases slowing
https://tinyurl.com/sz8ht7j


Dr. Susan Philip, director of disease prevention and control at the San Francisco Department of Public Health, said Monday that though she’s heartened to see hints that the outbreak is weakening, she expects case counts to continue to climb as testing ramps up.

“While we’ll always take a little good news, it’s too early to say we’re out of the woods,” Philip said. “We don’t want people to feel like it’s time to let up. We’re still concerned with a surge, and not wanting to see a large number of people becoming sick all at the same time.”

State and local leaders have warned that even with social distancing practices in place, California can expect to see a rising tide in people needing hospital care over the next few weeks. The state is expected to hit the peak of its outbreak sometime in May.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 7 2020 10:40 utc | 114

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 7 2020 10:39 utc | 114 @ Bob Burger, I thought that in Chicago it is also the black people who are performing most of the dying bit. But maybe they're zen about that too.

Yes, they have a *far* higher percentage of deaths than the other demographics. This is what happens when one is ignorant and uneducated (due to racism over generations.) And of course, they become a vector for the deaths of everyone else.

Which is why I'm not happy in my building.

Coronavirus wreaks havoc in African American neighbourhoods
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52194018

A simple Google search turns up tons of articles on the statistics for black deaths in Chicago. So much for it being a "scam."

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 7 2020 10:46 utc | 115

@Richard, but there ARE few deaths in Chicago. Right now that is. Hence people can still believe there is a scam.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 7 2020 11:04 utc | 116

A lot of people out and about ate under the mistaken impression that once a person recovers from their first infection, then that person will have acquired "immunity " from Covid-19. That is simply false. This coronavirus is an RNA virus, and that means it is constantly mutating, and at this early phase, extremely rapidly. There are many instances of the virus making three or more "passes" throughout families which are confined together, and there are already instances where mutated forms of the virus have returned to areas where it has already passed through and reinfecting people who had recovered from the initial pass.

Here in Taiwan, the versions of the virus we are currently battling are much more severe and have infected far more people than the initial virus did, with now tens of thousands of people under enforced quarantine. These forms were demonstrably transmitted from Europe and the US, proven via genetic analysis. So do not put any stock in armchair scientists who claim things like "we just need to get X% of the population infected once and we'll have achieved 'herd immunity." It's nonsense; the virus' mutation rate is what's going to determine when this pandemic slows, and our increased immunity mostly depends on how long it takes for that to slow down enough so that our antibodies can have a basic viral form to recognize. We may well see another global outbreak next year; it's notoriously difficult to develop vaccines and other medicines against RNA viruses.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Apr 7 2020 11:14 utc | 117

Bob Burger.113#

Same here in France in some banlieus where a lot of second and third generation immigrants live.The underminister of interior Nunez,(yes ,we've got one too!)has reportedly ordered the police force not to be severe with those people,for fear of uproar.Uproar that occurred none the less,when fifty youth threw stones to granadlaunching polizisten.Of course the french police forces double down on the average law-abiding citizen.I'm sure they will hand out a lot of fines,when lockdown is over,and a quarter of all car-owners' technical control will be outdated.

Posted by: willie | Apr 7 2020 11:35 utc | 118

A lot of people out and about are under the mistaken impression that once a person recovers from their first infection, then that person will have acquired "immunity " from Covid-19. That is simply false. Pacifica Advocate | Apr 7 2020 11:14 utc

My impression is that rather than "simply false", it has exceptions. Some percentage of recovered people are still susceptible, and it is hard to tell how large. Prior knowledge from viral infections still applies. It is more important that most people were not exposed to COVID-19, perhaps even in Wuhan, NYC or Daegu, so the argument is moot. Back before 1950, we would wait until "herd immunity" is obtained, in part by culling those non-immune, but now we decrease fatalities by some factor by protecting bulk of the population from the exposure.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Apr 7 2020 11:36 utc | 119

From Anoxia @ 40 North, "State of Jefferson" I report that in casual chatter with sans-culottes people we hear "it came from China" over and over again. The propaganda is working.

Deliberate CV or not, fascist elements (that was who KGB decided did the hit on John Boy) said elements are drumming "consent" for further conflict with Chine. The drumming is unquestionably deliberate. Another coincidence.

The mise-en-scène - the stage craft and setting, in the instance the propaganda, tells the back story. Cui bono.

workday for Wally, Yet he'll stop by once in a while...

Later. W

Posted by: Walter | Apr 7 2020 11:36 utc | 120

I perhaps ought to have said nutzlossenvolk and "deplorables" are semantically equivalent.
Posted by: Walter | Apr 7 2020 2:09 utc | 94

The complement to "nutzlosefressern" is "nutzloseregierung" [useless regime]. Method of dealing with hospitals is a perfect example of a good measure to be used: if they offer multi-trillion bailouts to banks and large corporations, while not bothering to secure the financial stability of precious medical care resources, then they are prime A+++ examples of "nutzlossenregierungen". Likewise if they have to resort to stealing protective masks passing through their ports, or resort to fake news propaganda against other governments dealing more effectively with the virus than themselves.

In contrast, China moved quickly to ensure all available medical facilities - and other buildings suitable for temporary conversion, let alone building new hospitals in a week - were available for Covid patients where they were needed; measures were taken to protect ordinary people from hardship; and - perhaps the ultimate measure of a "nutzliche Verwaltung" [useful management] VAST numbers of volunteers offered themselves for service , and were very effectively used. Cuba should fall into the same category, though obviously on a far smaller scale.

Exercise for the reader: how best to deal with the "nutzlossenregierungen"!

Posted by: BM | Apr 7 2020 11:37 utc | 121

Herd immunity can mean you can't be sick anymore. But how do you call our resistance to flu? If flu was new to us we'd all die. But because we had the previous release the challenge is much smaller and we still get ill and spread the virus, but we survive. So of the people who got ill and survived the first wave of the Kansas - sorry Spanish - flu, how many died in the second wave?

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 7 2020 11:44 utc | 122

Re: how best to deal with the "nutzlossenregierungen"!
any spellchecker will do :)

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 7 2020 11:46 utc | 123

I live in chicago, the funny thing is black people are the only ones who see what this is, bullshit, they are not social distancing, people are playing basketball in the parks having parties, the cops tried several times to stop large groupings but where told to F OFF, THEY SEE THIS IS JUST A SCAM. I guess if you been messed with so long you can see an evil scam a mile away

Posted by: Bob burger | Apr 7 2020 10:36 utc | 113

Yesterday I had a smoke next to my local WalMart, there is a place for "our associates" and there were also two white young women within hearing range, and I overheard "I heard that you invited 70 people?" "Yea, but very few came". Given that this is a college town, they could be students...

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Apr 7 2020 11:50 utc | 124

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 7 2020 11:44 utc | 123

Brief historyof the Spanish flu.

It was the vastly more terrible 2nd wave that popped the death tally into the 100s of millions. It was the 2nd wave that mutated to kill the young.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Apr 7 2020 12:10 utc | 125

The U.S. covering up its own Corona virus death toll?

Well, yeah, but the not the way the NYT would have us think! The CDC has just issued new guidelines telling doctors to declare COVID-19 the cause death whenever it might be "suspected or likely," even without testing!

"In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as 'probable' or 'presumed.' In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely."
And it's not just the US, folks. The death toll is being overstated in most Western countries--including Italy--using similar sneaky tricks. More info:

https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/05/covid19-death-figures-a-substantial-over-estimate/

(Meanwhile, no news from Sweden or Belarus.)

BTW, if there were really a New Black DeathTM in progress, do you all think that hospitals would be sending qualified doctors, nurses and staff home and laying them off right now? What sense does that make? Sure, elective procedures like boob-jobs would have to be postponed; I get that. But even if your specialty is, say, plastic surgery, aren't you still qualified to check people's pulses, temperature and vital signs? Aren't you qualified to read medical charts and make yourself otherwise useful, so as to lighten the burden on the virologists and epidemiologists during such a critical time? I'm no doctor myself. Just sayin' ...

#CoronaHoax
#FilmYourHospital

Posted by: Seamus Padraig | Apr 7 2020 12:11 utc | 126

@3 Posted by: Mina | Apr 6 2020 17:38 utc | 3

re. Secret Report (UK intelligence)
The statement that accidental release from local lab can not be ruled out is patently obvious to anyone not a drooling idiot or member of UK/US/ISREAL intelligence.

The fact that they are acknoleging the obvious would in great liklihood be result that the likely involvement of same is becoming to close to being understood and so this would be the half truth attempt to distact and keep focus on China. After that come threats and disappearances.

Its not that China is not likely involved is that involvement of others is equally or more likely. I think we can rule out that China released it on itself. They would like to suggest that it is a result of typical Chinese incompetence and corruption - a little worn.

Likely also we will never know the truth, but I think the actors involved will know the truth.

Posted by: jared | Apr 7 2020 12:14 utc | 127

@Pacifica Advocate, I'd be glad to see any link which addresses my question. What was the chance you got killed by the second wave if you got ill in the first wave. I know the second wave was much more deadly - overall and for people who didn't catch the first wave.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 7 2020 12:17 utc | 128

jared | Apr 7 2020 12:14 utc | 129 (Mina # 3 "report")

The Asia Times article referenced does not entirely accord with observations. It's "spin", propaganda. Anyway assume this for a moment...then ask cui bono, why spin?

Seems to support the thesis Fort D. August. "Live exercise"

Once everybody's softened up, or if too many become "undisciplined", the release of mysterious agent 2.0 (which may be smallpox?) - if that happens, Wally will be sure about "thesis Ft D" ....

Posted by: Walter | Apr 7 2020 12:43 utc | 129

Off topic, I imagine...about nutzlos... My incompetent and pre-ww2 era German, in muddled memory> essen is when people eat. fressen is feeding, as one feeds animals, stock.

thus (I think) useless feeder = nutzlosefresser (an insulting implication that the person is a kind of social parasite and also sub-human, eg an animal, ergo disposable for the common good)

Thanks kindly for nutzloseregierung I wrote it on the wall so as to not forget it. Great word!

Posted by: Walter | Apr 7 2020 13:08 utc | 130

Chicago
It is pretty simple to pull up pictures of those dying around here. The common characteristics are obesity and age. You can be nice and mention diabetes or hypertension. The people in the pictures are just plain big. This is couch potato land. The midwestern diet is awful and the African American diet is awful. The people dying are the ones constantly wheezing for breath and looking for a place to sit in the best of times. Is that harsh? I am at a BMI of 28 and wish I could lose ten or fifteen kilos. I am constantly told I am “skinny as a rail” and when with black friends they put food in my hands continuously.

There are still no tests. Access to testing is controlled by phalanxes of clerks who are good at nothing but saying no. The selection is in favor of those who are good at negotiating bureaucracy and infinitely patient. Patience is very different from determination. Act determined and you will be thrown out of line for sure.

Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 7 2020 13:53 utc | 131

"The grand plague called the "Black Death" that smothered Europe 1347-1352 also started as biological warfare:" @108

This is not true. You might just as well claim, perhaps you do, that the British invented smallpox because they deliberately passed infected clothing on to "Indian" enemies in America.

"...is anyone going to notice that the overall mortality rate was unchanged throughout this episode?" information_agent@134

If there is no increase in deaths we will notice. The real question is when will you recognise that tens of thousands of deaths have already occurred. And that there has been, wherever the virus is prevalent a decline in life expectancy.

It is one of the tactics of the ruling class to foster the delusion that nothing we see or believe can be justifiable grounds for action, because we can never really know- that knowledge is confined to elite circles who alone understand-despite all evidence to the contrary- what is happening around us.

Those who consider that denying the obvious is 'dissent', forget that, when that 'dissent' aligns them with the allies of the ruling class, their dissension is from the ranks of the opposition. It is 'dissent' in the service of a discredited and weakened ruling class.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 7 2020 14:02 utc | 132

@132 Posted by: Walter | Apr 7 2020 13:08 utc | 132

Google Translate
nutzlosefresser = useless eater
nutzloseregierung = useless government


Posted by: jared | Apr 7 2020 14:15 utc | 133

If death rate was even close to normal the cremation oven would not be overloaded. Maybe somebody might actually check if in reality they are over-loaded. Look at stack. Look at door. Read gas meter or measure firewood.

Posted by: Walter | Apr 7 2020 14:31 utc | 134

Chicago. It is pretty simple to pull up pictures of those dying around here. The common characteristics are obesity and age. You can be nice and mention diabetes or hypertension. The people in the pictures are just plain big. This is couch potato land. The midwestern diet is awful and the African American diet is awful. The people dying are the ones constantly wheezing for breath and looking for a place to sit in the best of times.
Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 7 2020 13:53 utc | 138

Quality of diet makes a massive difference to susceptibility to infection. Poor diet = Covid very easily gets a foot in the door, i.e. initial infection. If they are so overweight and wheezing, it is a reasonable assumption that their lungs are very stressed = presumably ideal for progression from first stage of infection (virus multiplying in the throat) to second stage (virus multiplying in the lungs). Thus, easy to see why such people would be easy prey.

Posted by: BM | Apr 7 2020 14:34 utc | 135

Here's an article and video concerning the apparent effectiveness of a simple cocktail of zinc (making it more difficult for the virus to replicate), a quinine drug (to aid in absorption of the zinc into cells), with the addition of an antibiotic to help deal with any secondary bacterial infections in the lungs. Variations of this are being used in several countries, and obviously if all but the most serious cases can be kept out of hospitals it will make it so that those cases can receive better treatment and increase their chances of survival as well. Unfortunately, there is apparently pretty strong push-back in the US by BigPharma, because use of cheap, non-patented drugs is unacceptable for their business model. But although this is a whiskey bar, maybe we should all grab some zinc tablets and wash it down with some gin and tonics...just to be on the safe side.

New York Doc With Effective Real World Treatment

Posted by: J Swift | Apr 7 2020 14:38 utc | 136

The World Health Organization and numerous "official" experts have asserted a crude mortality rate for COVID-19 of 3.4%. This indicates (erroneously) a rate around 30 times higher than with the influenza virus, which is estimated at 0.1%.

The European Monitoring of Excess Mortality for Public Health Action (EUROMOMO) reveals that, till year week 13, no global European excess mortality can be seen as compared with earlier years, the death toll trend for 2019-2020 is in fact slightly lower than for earlier years.

Confirming this, the German Robert Koch Institute documented end of March a nationwide decrease in the activity of acute RTIs, with the number of hospital stays caused by them being below the level of previous years and currently continuing to decline.

The reason for this declared “pandemic” is the following- first think back on how many “official” pandemics there were from say 1960-2005. Now how many “declared” pandemics have there been since that time.

Understand this recent timeline and what has changed.

In 2005 the WHO, the organization that “decides” what is and what is not a pandemic, changed the way it was funded. It went from a member funded global health agency to one where private interests now contributed the majority of it’s funds. This meant in particular that large pharmaceutical companies and investors connected to them now became the primary donors to the WHO- Public-Private-Partnerships (PPP’s). As a part of this these entities now demanded a seat at the table of the executive committees who are the ones responsible for “officially” declaring that there is a global pandemic.

In 2007 the WHO changed it’s specific definition as to what qualifies as a global pandemic.

The old definition was “a pandemic is an infection of global proportions and with a high mortality”- that definition was changed in 2007 to the more general and vague “a pandemic is an infection of global proportions.” This relaxing of the definition allowed for a more liberal interpretation of pandemic. Why this is so vital to understand is that once a pandemic is “officially” declared mechanisms in place and done through the WHO kick into gear designed to deal with this “global pandemic.” And who decides the direction and manner of these mechanisms? The executive committee which is now loaded with various representatives of those large pharmaceutical interests.

One of THE main outcomes in these PPP’s is that the large amounts of funding that goes to combat these now seasonal “global pandemics” gets funneled directly into the coffers of the big business interests who decide what is a pandemic and how it should be dealt with- meaning funding that goes towards research and development that will now directly benefit those companies who “donate” to the WHO- primarily Big Pharma.

“When a donor gives money, for example, the pharmaceutical industry, these representatives request to be present on the expert committees of the different [WHO] programs. There is a serious conflict of interest. It happened with the H1N1 epidemic, potential vaccine and drug manufacturers, like Tamiflú, were sitting on the committee that was deciding whether to launch an epidemic or not, obviously [the pharmaceutical companies] pushed for the epidemic to start and give a global alarm because they were going to have an impressive market.”

– German Velásquez, the creator of the Health Economics and Drug Financing Unit of the World Health Organization and former Director of its Secretariat for Public Health, Innovation and Intellectual Property

Posted by: Allen | Apr 7 2020 14:49 utc | 137

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 7 2020 12:17 utc | 130

>>>What was the chance you got killed by the second wave if you got ill in the first wave.

That's a good question, but the article I linked to gives a good gestalt--not precise, not certain, but likely answer--to your question.

The first wave started on military bases--I.e. young adults (18~32), ripped through the population, and mainly killed the very old and very young.

The 2d wave came back and killed 400 million people, most of whom were 23~32, or thereabouts.

It's safe to assume that the vast majority of those who died in the 2d wave were infected earlier by the 1st wave.

I will also remind everyone that science as yet cannot produce a useful or reliable Flu or "Cold" vaccine. Even the strains already challenging our massive 'herd immunity' remain mostly unpredictable in their mutations.

Any possibility of a vaccine remains, at best, only guesswork and hope. "Herd Immunity" is likely still 2 years away.

The last time this happened, the Powers-that-be waged a World War and entirely disregarded the human costs--thus the origin of the famed "Carry On!" posters--

One of the first triumphs of 1% propaganda.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Apr 7 2020 15:08 utc | 138

Thanks to Richard Hack for his careful posts. When I think of California, I think of a ship of moderate size entering the harbor at San Francisco on midsummer's day under the Golden Gate, which like my roof is never completely finished - the painters get to one end and have to start again at the other. Alcatraz and Treasure Island are there, and my father had discovered that driving over the great Bay Bridge, one could get off at Treasure Island, drive almost to the gates of the naval area, turn around and drive back a way and there would be San Francisco laid out like a jewel across the bay. We did that, our family, lots of times.

This was in the fifties, before hippies, before drugs, before earthquakes. An innocent time. We lived south of the airport, and the jets hadn't even begun flying back and forth to my homeland in New Zealand. We marvelled at the lovely parks, the restaurants, especially Chinatown ones with large smiling maitre d's. And the art galleries, the hills, the fog, the parks. School for my sister and me was different. California was welcoming. Home was far away. We went to Seal Rock and bought a plaque for my grouchy dairy farmer uncle that said "Quicherbellyakin!". My uncle had roared that at us kids, time without measure. We chuckled and mailed it, and a long time later learned it had arrived after the farmhouse had burned down overnight from a faulty new oil heater. (It was midwinter there.) The family got out because the older kids had been down at the town hall watching the Marx brothers on a Saturday night. Ten years later I visited the new home, built with community support. The plaque had pride of place in the modern and spacious livingroom. Farming was hard; communities were strong. All for one, like the musketeers. Them were the days, my friends.

Quicherbellyakin!

This country has bad leadership at present; b has pointed that out. We need to quit our bellyaching and start making new leaders. The house is burning. Let us not lose heart. We are not our present government. We can make a new one. Our communities are still strong and that is the true heart of the US of A. There is nothing to be gained from all the rumors and false statements flying back and forth. I and many others shun the mainstream media. We no longer believe them. We are not sheep. But we are peaceful. Let them spout their failing slogans - who cares? We care for one another, always have, always will.

Please, please, rest of the world - know that we are no different from you. You are blest at this time perhaps to have the best leaders that don't need to bluster and pretend. That do what they are chosen to do: lead. We cherish you for that, and we humble ourselves before you. But we didn't ask for what we have; we tried to stick to the international rules we helped create in the past. We are not our trolls or our defeatist loudmouths or our moneygrubbing carpetbaggers.

We shun them.

Be glad, rest of the world, that power is being fairly distributed among you by leaders that are so much wiser than US leaders. I pray that is happening. And of course we see we don't have that; some of us envy you for having learned the hard lessons. But many gain strength from your example; be proud of that. There is no shining beacon left here; we know it. Some of us still hope we can realize our own latent powerfulness in peaceful change. Most of us throw up our hands in dismay and hearbreak at the needless carnage, the inevitable retribution, the empty rhetoric. And we don't listen to, we don't believe in, our leaders. They know it. All they can do is spout the same useless garbage pursuing their own white whale of meanness, menace, and greed, which has finally turned on them and is bearing down.

We are the crew. We are at the oars. We are flawed. We are sinking. We are only human, and soon we will be gone. There are unsung heroes among us; the ones who fight the virus, the others who sacrifice by still adhering to the family chores and responsibilities to be neighborly whatever their spiritual beliefs. Neighborly, that's what we saw back in the day, the neighborliness of all Americans. What a warm and friendly country we had come to!

Person to person we are the same all over the world. And the world is beautiful. Please don't add to our sorrows by telling us how we have failed. How we don't see what our leaders are doing. We do know. Aeschylus says this in his brief dynamic play. Homer says it of the Greeks and of Troy. Socrates taught when Athens was gradually shifting from oligarchy to tyranny. Those we studied, those are our voices. And what Greece has become, we are too.

The painters have got to the end of the Golden Gate. They are going back to the beginning now. They are starting again.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 7 2020 15:13 utc | 139

@Richard Steven Hack #111
The article concerning SF vs. LA is entirely misleading. The author is clearly unaware that LA County has 10M+ people while San Francisco county has 883K.
Multiple SF numbers by 11 - and the difference shrinks dramatically.

If we look at Bay Area numbers: 98 deaths, 3830 cases vs. LA county 147 deaths and 6391 cases - the case number in LA is significantly higher but the death number isn't (LA is 30% more population than the entire Bay Area).

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 7 2020 15:29 utc | 140

For those looking at "overall mortality" stats: a warning
These stats are always behind the curve.
Here's an article talking about how final mortality numbers can be literally 1 year before they stabilize, and the final number is always significantly higher than what is first reported: Dr. Roy Spencer looking at overall mortality reporting lag

Although it is not obvious in the above plot, there were new deaths reported as much as 1 year late.

Net net: using past behavior as proxy for future. there is very much an increase in mortality from nCOV. Only if nCOV is truly only killing those people that were already dying, will this not come true - and we're not going to know that for a significant period of time.

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 7 2020 15:33 utc | 141

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 7 2020 15:36 utc | 154

Would you be ok with such a regime instead of a lockdown?

Judging from his comments I guess he would like to see a laissez faire approach to this. Just let it go, suck it up, do business as usual and live your life to the fullest. Kind of the same attitude Bojo used to have.
Or perhaps Bojo still has it, I just heard in the news he is in good spirits, so maybe he is glad he makes a valuable contribution to the immunity of the English herd.

Posted by: hopehely | Apr 7 2020 16:09 utc | 142

Related to this discussion: Westerners losing touch with reality and swimming in delusion.

Readers may be familiar with my rants about "Identity Politics" based upon trivial and irrelevant differences exaggerated to be personally defining, and in particular my denigration of the fantasies of those who believe themselves to have a gender that is not reflected by their biology... a gender of "mountain panda", for instance.

[aside: My gender is "main battle tank". The correct third person pronoun for me is "main battle tank". Usage ex: "But the main battle tank posted this nonsense..." Do not misgender me, dood!]

How does this relate to a discussion about the covid crisis?

The strength of a delusion is dependent upon universal acceptance of that delusion. If everyone would accept that William Gruff is a main battle tank, then William Gruff will BE a main battle tank. This metaphysical belief that physical reality itself can be altered by consensus underlies much of the departure of western society from reality. If we all just believe hard enough then reality will be what we want it to be. If reality fails to conform to our wishes, then that can only be because of disbelievers (terrorist, practically) in our midst who insist upon believing in a bad reality.

While physical evidence for the covid pandemic can be had for any who wish to look, that is not what the hoax proponents want. The hoax proponents want to employ the same mechanism that can make William Gruff into a main battle tank to make the covid pandemic go away: Consensus in belief. If everyone can be convinced to believe that the covid pandemic is a hoax, then the pandemic will BE a hoax. Everything will then return to how it was before we had developed 2020 hindsight.

It is really kinda sad.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 7 2020 16:12 utc | 143

I note that there are still corporate shills or credulous fools out there suggesting that the virus is just a hoax or a scam. Perhaps one of those people might care to explain just how the 'scammers' managed to get the Iranians, Venezuelans, Chinese, Russians, Cubans, Koreans, Germans Italians, Spanish etc all to play along with the hoax? This 'conspiracy' would have to be truly worldwide to perpetrate a hoax on the entire planet.

I also note that the shills and/or fools are still using the same sad water muddying-arguments that they started with ie annual death stats and affected concern over the niceties of protocol wrt to cause of death.

There were only 8,098 cases of SARS with 774 deaths and only 2519 cases of MERS with 866 deaths, do you think they would have shown up on annual mortality rates? Were they a hoax?

Is there anyone out there that believes that cause of death is possible to establish with any certainty even at the best of times? Are DNA tests routinely done on flu deaths? I strongly doubt it. Would anyone care to explain how the figures of deaths attributed to flu every year are any more reliable than deaths attributed to COVID-19? I won't hold my breath.

Posted by: MarkU | Apr 7 2020 16:28 utc | 144

Now that America's Hell Week is also proving to be a complete flop for the media,hopefully people will realize the hysteria and economic lunacy must come to an end now.

Effective face covering is all that is needed, along with medical preparedness. The vulnerable should be isolated at their request or due to individual action.

Those who push alarmist models were the same cretins who recommended against using a face covering. All should be banished from news coverage for obvious incompetance.

Posted by: Liberty Blogger | Apr 7 2020 16:33 utc | 145

to JSwift. Dr Michael Burry just came out with an analysis/critique of the world's handling of the corona virus. You can find it on ZeroHedge (I know I know) One of Dr. Burry's points is that physicians should be able to use the chloroquine plus antibiotic which some other MDs are saying has been helpful if used early on, if they so choose. Obviously, as he also says, testing is critical - yet still not widely available in 'murka the savage plus many other parts of the world.

Cheers

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Apr 7 2020 16:43 utc | 146

People carping about shutdown being a plot to erase their civil liberties are displaying their ignorance about economics and their gullibility.

The convulsion is in money and credit, not in substantial wealth. The substantial wealth is still there; the land, the fields, the waters, the plants, the animals, the buildings, the people who labour.

The collapse can be avoided at any time by countering the inequality. Insofar as people reduce the inequality, the crisis will be reduced - nothing else will reduce the collapse.

There is plenty of substantial wealth; the only lack is distribution of means to trade.

The wealth of the nation didn't magically evaporate overnight. The problem with the economy is the exact same problem that existed before "shutdown" (aka rational measures taken to save lives by flattening the curve) - it's the MALDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, it's the purposeful withholding from the working families the means to keep trade alive while we have to temporarily stop nonessential work.

It is beyond ridiculous to hear people screaming "but muh civil liberties!" when that experiment in democracy known as The First American Republic has been DEAD for 2 centuries. Democracy is BY DEFINITION impossible where wealthpower is anywhere NEAR as concentrated as it has been in the usa for a very very very long time. Don't let the twitching corpse fool you. If you can't ACCESS your liberties, they don't exist. Stop talking about democracy as if it does still exist. Grow up and get real. Stay home. Save the nurses and sanitation workers' families. You can campaign for pay justice to save our species from home. Staying home to save lives NEVER MEANT THE ECONOMY HAD TO CRASH, PERIOD. The work we all did made plenty of wealth and if spread according to principles of justice it could have avoided ALL the deprivations!

Posted by: Phryne's frock | Apr 7 2020 16:43 utc | 147

@information_agent #163
A motive doesn't make a possible act a reality.
You actually have to have proof of action.
And "French paymasters" would have to instruct literally tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people, in what to do or say.
Perhaps you can point out one of these exceptions - in France or elsewhere - outside of an anonymous web site with an author of unknown provenance - to back up your frankly outrageous claim?

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 7 2020 16:44 utc | 148

@ 159 william gruff.. ditto your comment.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Apr 7 2020 16:45 utc | 149

Very much to your point Allen regarding Big Pharma. Chloroquine and Azithromycin are very very cheap. No money in it - and not much Swagger potential for the Big Dicks like Gates, Soros et. al. Gilead made a fortune on tamiflu....

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Apr 7 2020 16:46 utc | 150

I've posted a couple of times about how the number of hospital beds per American has been dropping - the first, for the last 20 years and the 2nd, since the 1970s.
Here's some info on just how bad it is getting:
source article on nCOV in Albany, Georgia


The 75,000-person town is 40 miles from the nearest interstate, its link with Atlanta, some three hours' drive north.

...

Cases of COVID-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, hit 967 in Albany on Tuesday, according to Johns Hopkins University researchers.

...

All 14 intensive care beds in the city were full within two days, Steiner said, adding that the hospital went through six months' worth of supplies in less than a week.


Posted by: c1ue | Apr 7 2020 16:46 utc | 151

Pepe Escobar provided a photostat of the following memo on his FB:

"1.29.20

"MEMORABDU TO NSC
FROM PETER NAVARRO
RE: IMPOSE TRAVEL AN ON CHINA?

"If the probability of a pandemic is greater than roughly 1%, a game-theoretic analysis of the coronavirus indicates the clear dominant strategy is an immediate travel ban on China.

"We confront two stylized choices: Aggressive Containment versus No Containment. We face two stylized outcomes: A relatively modest "seasonal flu-like" outcome with relatively low rates of transmission and mortality versus a more deadly "pandemic flu" such as witnessed with the Asian, Hong Kong, Spanish, and Swine Flus.
"Costs estimates range from zero in the Seasonal Flu/No Containment outcome to $3.8 trillion in the Pandemic/No Containment outcome. These cost estimates account for both the loss of economic activity and human life and are derived from a recent CEA study.

(Table won't format correctly.)………... "Seasonal Flu"...… Pandemic
Aggressive Containment...………………….. -$2.9 Billion -$34.6 Billion
No Containment...……………………………... 0...…. -$3.8 Trillion"

Pepe's commentary on the memo:

"Even if it involves the awful Navarro, defended by the unspeakable Bannon - both rabid Sinophobes - memos like this one, revealed by Axios and the NYT, are indeed a bombshell.

"Note the date.

"Trump, the day after the memo: 'It's going to have a very good ending for us.'"

"You decide."

Indeed. When did Trump call it a hoax? When did Pompeo/Trump start calling it Wuhan virus? What do other internal memos have to say?


Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 7 2020 16:48 utc | 152

thanks karlof1... that is fairly damning on the usual suspects...

Posted by: james | Apr 7 2020 16:50 utc | 153

@Allen | Apr 7 2020 14:49 utc | 146

Thank you. Very important post!

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 7 2020 16:54 utc | 154

Some more data:

Early on in this crisis we were able to swab people who died at home, and thus got a coronavirus reading. But those days are long gone. We simply don't have the testing capacity for the large numbers dying at home.

...

It’s not just deaths in hospitals which are up. On an average day before this crisis there were 20-25 deaths at home in NYC. Now in the midst of this pandemic the number is 200-215. *Every day*


To be fair, some of this is simply because people are at home a lot more. But certainly not most of the increase is because of this.
Source: Mark Levine Twitter

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 7 2020 17:08 utc | 155

Friggin' typo at the top---Grrr.

Another small item I came across yesterday shows some desperation from Trump that the usual distractors--the circuses/spectacles known as professional and collegiate sports--won't be in place come Fall when the election run will get hot. What the head NFL medic said relative to resuming:

"We have to get to the point that when someone is tested as positive to the virus that does not mean an immediate quarantine. If that is the case, you can’t think about opening up a team sport." [My Emphasis]

IMO, it would be very good for the nation if the sports distractions remained sidelined until Winter. What's occurring is far too critical and the public must keep its eyes on their most important interests, and right now sports aren't anywhere close.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 7 2020 17:17 utc | 156

UK data for total deaths thru March 27 just released- lower than 5 year average.

How is this possible in the midst of a global pandemic where the UK was cited as one of the several "hot spots."

Looking at the year-to-date (using refreshed data to get the most accurate estimates), the number of deaths is currently lower than the five-year average. The current number of deaths is 150,047, which is 3,350 fewer than the five-year average.

The UK data for total deaths thru March 27.

___________

Total UK deaths, Feb. 29 to March 27:
43,700

Average deaths, same period (2015-19):
43,400

Total UK deaths, Dec 28 2019 – March 27 2020 (ytd)
137,800

Average deaths, ytd (2015-19)
141,700

https://www.ons.gov.uk/

Note: I did not post the link that takes you directly to death tolls as when I previewed my post with that link it disrupted the page format to the dreaded elongated comment.

Posted by: Allen | Apr 7 2020 17:18 utc | 157

Wally observes that claims of observation combined with refusal to observe and the adoption of belief instead is nonsensical. He recalls that resort to ad homenim is considered to be concession in logical argument. That IA may = agent is, he suspects, a possibility...

And he's terribly upset that IA does not like it.

But he's happy IA agrees with Wally.

Posted by: Walter | Apr 7 2020 17:25 utc | 158

@41 Daniel | Apr 6 2020 21:11

Yes, and the agency trolls are increasingly squirming through known alt-narrative FB account postings and aggressively deriding any comments pointing out bias, omission, BS, etc.

Posted by: imo | Apr 7 2020 17:26 utc | 159

Karlof thanks for updating those who don't use FB.
Less dead than in previous years? people who were afraid of going to hospitals before that are not going to change their mind on the quality of western medicine...

Posted by: Mina | Apr 7 2020 18:12 utc | 160

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 7 2020 16:12 utc | 159

While physical evidence for the covid pandemic can be had for any who wish to look, that is not what the hoax proponents want. The hoax proponents want to employ the same mechanism that can make William Gruff into a main battle tank to make the covid pandemic go away: Consensus in belief. If everyone can be convinced to believe that the covid pandemic is a hoax, then the pandemic will BE a hoax. Everything will then return to how it was before we had developed 2020 hindsight.

It is really kinda sad.

In his book Homo Deus Yuval Harari says that humans are unique among living creatures because they live in three realities: objective, subjective and inter-subjective, as opposed to other creatures who live in just first two.
Perhaps one way of dealing with the issue you pointed is to recognize what reality is a topic so to adjust the conversation accordingly. The important point is that the inter-subjective reality is real too. To us, humans. The problem is that those dang nanobots don't give a shit about it.
Another problem is that us humans are not quite able to separate these realities easily. But I think it is possible to do so, once you realize the distinction.


Posted by: hopehely | Apr 7 2020 18:31 utc | 161

Lies, damn lies, and statistics

'Excess deaths' is invalid for a new virus or unexpected event.

'Excess deaths' is derived from deaths from prior years. To be a valid and useful statistic, it has to compare like with like. Example: on average, 50,000 people die in highway accidents each year - if there were 55,000 highway deaths last year, then there were 5,000 "excess deaths".

Applying 'excess deaths' to the pandemic is playing with statistics. Deaths have been relatively low because we are FIGHTING the pandemic. The exponential nature of the pandemic threat means that if we don't start fighting at the earliest possible time, then millions would die.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 7 2020 18:33 utc | 162


New York State Deaths -
Chronic Lower Respiratory Diseases: 7,258
Flu/Pneumonia: 4,517
Total approx 12,000 for 2017

Deaths attributed to CV-19 in New York City (pop. 8.5mm) reported as 3200 as of this morning - 0.04% to date.
That represents about 3-4 weeks.
Then (hypothetically) extrapolate that over the state over the course of the year and factor in had they not begun to take precautionary measures (it's not linear its exponential) and then factor in had the hospitals become more over-loaded.

It's hypothetical, I hope we will never know the answer.

Posted by: jared | Apr 7 2020 18:37 utc | 163

evilempire @196

Please explain. Are they doing nothing to fight the virus?

AFAIK, even UK's proposed 'herd immunity' strategy would include isolating the elderly until most people in UK had contracted the virus and fought it off.

As you know, that strategy was abandoned because it is so very irresponsible.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 7 2020 18:45 utc | 164

Posted by: Walter | Apr 7 2020 1:48 utc | 83
Nutzossenvolk is, I think a typo for Nutzlossenvolk meaning "the useless" people.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Apr 7 2020 18:47 utc | 165

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 6 2020 21:10 utc | 38
Posted by: james | Apr 6 2020 23:14 utc | 62
Posted by: kiwiklown | Apr 7 2020 5:24 utc | 98

Gentlemen, especially Mr. b thanks for allowing me into your bar BTW, I'm a teetotaler...... the kind words to help me struggles on. Bow and bow again (Chinese custom, paying respect) thanks again!

Posted by: JC | Apr 7 2020 18:53 utc | 166

Richard @ 104; I get your skepticism, some of those thoughts creep into my head also.

jared @ 104 said;"Likely also we will never know the truth, but I think the actors involved will know the truth."

And also, when this event diminishes, we'll all have a better take on it.

As for me, given all I've read lately, My question is; Was this virus released accidentally, or by design?

One thing is sure. There are people in our times, that will kill millions to acquire more wealth and power.

Posted by: ben | Apr 7 2020 18:59 utc | 167

Thanks to Pacific for the precious information; it seems no one in the European MSM is mentioning the strains.

Posted by: Mina | Apr 7 2020 19:01 utc | 168

An excerpt from Chris Hedges latest effort;

"Class struggle defines most of human history. Marx got this right. The sooner we realize that we are locked in deadly warfare with our ruling, corporate elite, the sooner we will realize that these elites must be overthrown. The corporate oligarchs have now seized all institutional systems of power in the United States. Electoral politics, internal security, the judiciary, our universities, the arts and finance, along with nearly all forms of communication, are in corporate hands. Our democracy, with faux debates between two corporate parties, is meaningless political theater. There is no way within the system to defy the demands of Wall Street, the fossil fuel industry or war profiteers. The only route left to us, as Aristotle knew, is revolt."

Full article from Truthdig;

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/lets-get-this-class-war-started/


Posted by: ben | Apr 7 2020 19:05 utc | 169

Two memo for one... Massaged and edited by CNN
https://tinyurl.com/s4clha2

Posted by: Mina | Apr 7 2020 19:09 utc | 170

I have to question who runs this blog now, since all of information_agent's most interesting and reasonable posts got deleted. I didn't know this was a religious blog.

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 7 2020 19:17 utc | 171

Wuhan, 76 days and 75 check points, starting 24 January 2020, people liberation front military - including cities, china provinces and prefectures sends 42,000 medics and health workers pouring into Wuhan while the world sleeps and laugh at the stoopid Chinaman, Chinese New Year or spring festival starts on 25January, 3billions Chinese were expected to travels among the best high speed trains, Hwy on bridges and road...

" ....(1245ET): After more than 10 weeks trapped inside their homes, and then trapped inside their city, residents of Wuhan were finally allowed to leave the city on Tuesday...... CGTN (China Global Television network reporter - Tao Yuen reported in one of the 75 checkpoint..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBiJLJIOyWo

Please watch Tao Yuen in almost perfect Eng shows what the evils CCP did to its citizen and spare countless death and suffering.

Posted by: JC | Apr 7 2020 19:18 utc | 172

@all

I had to clean up again and the comment numbering will have changed.

Could you all please STOP TO FEED THE TROLLS!

Cleaning up behind them is quite time intensive. Just ignore them and they will go away.

Posted by: b | Apr 7 2020 19:21 utc | 173

"The only route left to us, as Aristotle knew, is revolt." Chris Hedges

Good luck with that, Chris. There isn't even anything remotely resembling the sort of "revolt" (however useless it was) in the 1960's. There isn't anyone left in the US capable of it.

Except me. If I survive this bloody virus crisis...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 7 2020 19:46 utc | 174

This might be useful as a reference document for those trying to figure out how this pandemic matches others in the past.

The coronavirus may be deadlier than the 1918 flu: Here’s how it stacks up to other pandemics
https://tinyurl.com/yxyr9mld

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 7 2020 20:06 utc | 175

interesting this:

Tuberculosis vaccine ‘potential game-changer’ in Covid-19 fight
Countries with high BCG vaccination rates have fewer coronavirus deaths, study shows

The suggestion from another article: The suggestion being [there was a case for authorities moving to provide a BCG vaccine top-up for everybody age over 70. “This is feasible and should be considered.]


Coronavirus: More ‘striking’ evidence BCG vaccine might protect against Covid-19.
More “striking” evidence has emerged that the BCG vaccine given to counter TB may provide protection against Covid-19 and significantly reduce death rates in countries with high levels of vaccination.

A study of 178 countries by an Irish medical consultant working with epidemiologists at the University of Texas in Houston shows countries with vaccination programmes – including Ireland – have far fewer coronavirus cases by a factor 10, compared to where BCG programmes are no longer deployed.[.]

Their “correlation” study, expected to be published shortly by PLOS journal, is largely a statistical one and comes with caveats because of possibility of confounding factors. But it is more comprehensive than an initial one conducted in New York, which prompted a scaling up of clinical trials on people with Covid-19.[.]
“Over the 15 days, incidence of Covid-19 was 38 per million in countries with BCG vaccination whereas the incidence of Covid-19 was 358 per million in the absence of such a programme. The death rate was 4.28 per million in countries with BCG programmes and 40 per million in countries without such a programme,” he added.[.]

Mr Hegarty said they were heartened by similar results to the New York study and were in discussion about a clinical trial in the US. This would be targeted at healthcare workers experiencing “shocking” rates of infectivity – accounting for one in four cases in Ireland.
[.]
On Monday, scientists in Melbourne, Australia, started administering BCG vaccine or a placebo to thousands of healthcare workers. A clinical trial of 1,000 healthcare workers started recently in the Netherlands, said Dr Mihai Netea of Radboud University Medical Centre.[.]

US virologist Robert Gallo of the Institute of Human Virology in Maryland has confirmed he is working with a team who will make an announcement shortly that will have “a major effect” on global efforts to tackle Covid-19.
Best known for his role in the discovery of HIV as the infectious agent responsible for AIDS, Prof Gallo did not go into detail other than to indicate it involves deployment of “an adjusted existing vaccine” that will be available within months.[.]

and this OP-ED in RT

SELF-DELUSIONAL America can only beat Covid-19 if it stops blaming China and faces up to its own pandemic mistakes

Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 7 2020 20:08 utc | 176

@ 173 Norwegian... "My point here is to try to get some of you to put a paper bag over your mouth to cure the vapors you seem to be suffering from...or is it covid-19?" you like that type of dialogue?? get real...

Posted by: james | Apr 7 2020 20:12 utc | 177

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 7 2020 15:29 utc | 142 @Richard Steven Hack #111 The author is clearly unaware that LA County has 10M+ people while San Francisco county has 883K. Multiple SF numbers by 11 - and the difference shrinks dramatically.

I believe the article explicitly said the difference in case size was due to LA being larger. What mattered to the author was the *rate of increase* compared between the two cities. LA jumped percentage-wise by much more than San Francisco.

The attribution was to the point that the Bay Area locked down earlier than LA.


Cases increased slowly in both counties. At one point, Los Angeles County and much smaller San Francisco, which is both a city and county, were neck and neck. Los Angeles reported its first case of COVID-19 on Jan. 26. San Francisco reported its first two cases on March 5. And on March 10, the counties had the same number of cases: 17.

But since announcing its shelter-in-place rules on March 16, San Francisco has seen a slower rate of increase than has Los Angeles.

Los Angeles’ cases have risen more than 48 times, while San Francisco’s have gone up about 10 times.

Los Angeles County, with about 10 million people, will naturally have more cases than San Francisco, where fewer than a million live. But the rate of increase in Los Angeles County could indicate a flareup, similar to the one seen in New Orleans over the past month, Swartzberg said.


Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 7 2020 20:20 utc | 178

ben | Apr 7 2020 18:59 utc | 169

As I have said in this bar before, I think this epidemic was an accident because it seems that no one was prepared for it. No stockpiled equipment, (Quite the reverse!) no ready medicine, no vaccine.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Apr 7 2020 20:29 utc | 179

@Richard Steven Hack #180
You are right, there is mention in the text but the graphic diagram does not take the scale into account.
It clearly implies that nCOV in LA is dramatically worse than SF when this is not the case.

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 7 2020 20:30 utc | 180

Walter @ 132

Menschen essen. Tiere fressen.

So to refer to humans as "nutzlose Fresser," useless eaters, is indeed an insult.

To feed an animal is "ein Tier fuettern."

nutzlose (adj) Regierung (n, f.)

Posted by: Really?? | Apr 7 2020 22:57 utc | 181

james @ 179

I have sat this farcical thread out. But, I did read it. What absolute projection. Statistically literate people have been presenting facts and statements by Nobel prize winners claiming the statistics have been inflated.

As the demand to post the "total mortality" has gained traction, it is now met by a counter-attack by B from the exact opposite spin on the missing data - that the statistics have been deflated. At this point we have dueling narratives about dubious data. The upshot of that should be either admitting we peasants know jack shit, or allowing the debate to continue.

But no. I read that information_agent's posts are deleted. They were full of sourced facts. Instead of disputing them, they are simply removed. Well, that's all for me at this site.

This place used to allow dissent. Hell, it still allows flaming whackjobs to post. But facts that are just as good as the crapola from the corporate media (and the corporate-funded WHO) are being disappeared.

I am done here.

Good bye B. You used to have a nice blog before you started censoring FACTS instead of opinions.

And, james, I used to think you were a placid Canadian.

put a paper bag over your mouth to cure the vapors you seem to be suffering from..

How polite - not. You have joined the lynch mob run by several long time posters and greenlighted by B.

Oh, well. This isn't the first hijacked board I have walked away from.

information agent: I live in New England. Would love to get in touch. Use the email link for me (unless b kills it instantly).

Posted by: john brewster | Apr 7 2020 23:26 utc | 182

Likklemore 178

The difference between countries that do vaccinate for TB and those that don't in quite interesting.
The researchers seem to be looking st whether the vaccine prevents people becoming infected with coronavirus. After doing a bit of reading it seems that countries that do not vaccinate for TB would have a percentage of people already infected with TB which primarily damages the upper lobes of the lungs. Coronavirus apparently affects the lower lobes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine#Usage
Italy: BCG mass vaccination has never been performed in Italy.
Germany: Mass vaccination was performed from 1961 until 1998
Spain: Past national BCG vaccination policy for all from 1965 to 1981.

Looking through the list at wikipedia, TB immunization programs don't always match death rates due coronavirus, but incidence of TB in a country may give a closer match.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 7 2020 23:27 utc | 183

Excess deaths' is invalid for a new virus or unexpected event.

'Excess deaths' is derived from deaths from prior years. To be a valid and useful statistic, it has to compare like with like. Example: on average, 50,000 people die in highway accidents each year - if there were 55,000 highway deaths last year, then there were 5,000 "excess deaths".

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 7 2020 18:33 utc | 164
+++++++++++++

I don't think this is correct. Of course mortality rates may be broken down in some contexts, but those who compare total mortality to total mortality are not incorrect to do so. I have seen a number of posts at MoA on this topic already so will not write further.

Posted by: Really?? | Apr 7 2020 23:45 utc | 184

John Brewster @ 184

Sorry to see you go.
I looked forward to your posts and pushback.
The Corona is affecting a lot of people's common sense.

Some people have pretty strong troll detectors.
Others, not.


Posted by: Really?? | Apr 7 2020 23:58 utc | 185

Posted by: Oū Sī / 區司/ Usman | Apr 7 2020 8:46 utc | 107

Thanks "b" for one more of Your as-almost-always eccellent overviews and summing-ups of select aspects of recent developments! But one should add one aspect to it all: Realistic statistics are very often rather counter-intuitive.
One of the first laureates to be awarded the Economics parallel to the Nobel Prizes was the Norwegian Haavelsmo -- for contributions to statistical "cross run analysis" (Kräutzlaufs-Analyze). He liked to point out the extreme close statistical correlation between the timing of arrivals of tourists in the scenic fjord country of Western Norway with the sudden increase in the wasp and fly insect population numbers. And then point out that there was not any direct cause-effect relationship straight on between these two sets of occurences, even though the untrained eye might well perceive it thus.
Much of the mayhem of misconceptions about the present pandemic stem from lack of statistical sophistication -- not only amongst the ordinary people, but also very often amongst medical doctors, who have only rudimentary training in statistics.

very well said. This is exactly the right time to point out that medical doctors, as well as journalists and bloggers, are not trained in such fields. Me neither by the way, I hate statistics. For a reason. Because numbers can be very misleading and cause disastrous effect in the minds of the recipients.

We can go around in circles without end unless we go to the root of infection theory. As long as we don't face this, we are victims of misconceptions. This is not only a good time for a monetary-economical reset, but also a splendid time for reassessing our conceptions about diseases. It takes a bit of time, but the answers are to be found. The important thing is to ask the right questions.

Posted by: Phil | Apr 8 2020 0:17 utc | 186

@ 184 john brewster... that quote is from information_agent.. i thought it was fairly clear... when arsenic is sprinkled in with ''facts'', or alternative viewpoints, it all becomes toxic and discourages conversation... that's what i think... unfortunately some folks are not content to share their perspective but want to clobber others over the head with it too... so, please do go, or do whatever you'd like to do... i think different viewpoints are indeed allowed here.. it is the other part as instanced in my quote from information_agent that have no place here... cheers james...

Posted by: james | Apr 8 2020 0:32 utc | 187

You gotta love how folks who are fully aware of and against corporate domination over our lives are now fully on board with "finding a vaccine" for this "killer virus."

Who do you think wrote that script that these supposed "free-thinkers" are parroting.

You can't make this surreal shyte up any longer- and no you don't have to love it.

Posted by: Allen | Apr 8 2020 1:07 utc | 188

Posted by: Mina | Apr 7 2020 19:01 utc | 170

Purely by chance, I happen to be close friends with the chief lab tech at the lab doing Covid-19 viral analysis for all of Taiwan. She's a specialist in gene mapping, and the lab is in the Taiwan University Biology department. That's all I know at the moment (I've never needed to ask for more details, although I could share a bit of ribald gossip), but if you'd like more specific info I can ask.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Apr 8 2020 1:18 utc | 189

@ Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 7 2020 19:46 utc | 176

Haha, revolt? The fecklessness of the current breed of Americans knows no bounds. They can't even fucking organize an online boycott against Blizzard Games during last year HK's unrest for christsakes.

On another subject, watch the video below comparing face mask manufacturing process in the US and China, and it's easy to see US stands no chance in hell for manufacturing to return to the states.

Americans are free to convince themselves otherwise inside their make-believe exceptional world by sewing masks by hand, while everything is automated to the brim on the other side of the Pacific by "inefficient" red commies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaKKyX9bChA

Posted by: JW | Apr 8 2020 1:34 utc | 190

This disease is very strange. Several studies show 50% remain asymptomatic. One italian one puts that at 75%. Most with symptoms are mild cases. It mainly kills the elderly with comorbidities. Thats logical but the allegedly high (20 x 30%) number of younger patients hospitalized is odd if true maybe its not.

It begs the question is it true and if so is there a cofactor here?

Posted by: Alaric | Apr 8 2020 2:28 utc | 191

1961-outgoing President Dwight D. Eisenhower warned about government influence in science in his farewell speech “..The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present
and is gravely to be regarded. Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific technological elite.


1961-In a lecture to the California Medical School, in San Francisco, Huxley explained: There will be, in the next generation or so, a method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution.


1968 Brzezinski’s book, Between Two Ages: America’s Role in the Technetronic Era. [The technetronic era] involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled and directed society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite whose claim to political power would rest on allegedly superior scientific know-how. Unhindered by the restraints of traditional liberal values, this elite would not hesitate to achieve its political ends by using the latest modern techniques for influencing public behavior and keeping society under close surveillance and control.

1971-Written to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Lewis Powell Memo was a blueprint for corporate domination of American Democracy.


1972-in response to the Powell memo three business organizations merged to form the Business Roundtable, the first business association whose membership was restricted to top corporate CEOs. In part at the urging of Bryce Harlow, lobbyist for Procter & Gamble, this new organization combined two groups focused on relatively narrow business issues with an informal organization called the March Group. The March Group had grown out of a meeting with top Nixon administration officials and prominent executives and was designed to bring together many of the nation’s most powerful CEOs. Within five years the new mega-organization had enlisted 113 of the top Fortune 200 companies, accounting for nearly half of the economy. The Business Roundtable quickly developed into a formidable group, designed to mobilize high-level CEOs as a collective force to lobby for the advancement of shared interests. President Ford’s deputy treasury secretary Charles Walker, a leading corporate organizer put it this way: “The Roundtable has made a lot of difference. They know how to get the CEOs into Washington and lobby; they maintain good relationships with the congressional staffs; they’ve just learned a lot about Washington they didn’t know before.

1975, Sen. Frank Church, the chairman of the Senate panel probing U.S. Intelligence agencies says the government has the technological capacity to impose “total tyranny” if a dictator ever came to power. “There would be no place to hide,” . Church said the eavesdropping technology given the government by intelligence agencies would enable the government to impose total tyranny “and there would be no way to fight back because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know , such is the capability of this technology.”

Posted by: Pft | Apr 8 2020 2:33 utc | 192

Posted by: Alaric | Apr 8 2020 2:28 utc | 195 the allegedly high (20 x 30%) number of younger patients hospitalized is odd if true maybe its not. It begs the question is it true and if so is there a cofactor here?

An article I posted a little while ago pointed out that there are 45 million people in the US with underlying conditions that make them susceptible who are under the age of 60 or 65. Also another article cited a study indicating a huge percentage of people in ICU are overweight. And how many younger people in the US are overweight?

That's what you're seeing.

I just wish someone would release a study specifying what percentage of people in ICU or ventilators had what co-factors. How many diabetics, how many heart disease, etc. Probably won't know for months or a year until someone has time to compile the stats.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 8 2020 3:37 utc | 193

A countervailing opinion on social distancing from Information Clearing House;

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/55026.htm

Posted by: ben | Apr 8 2020 3:47 utc | 194

SF Bay Area Covid updated April 7
The last census lists a population of over 7 million people in nine counties and 101 cities.
Latest Numbers By County

California Totals
39.7 Million people
State Statistics
15865 total cases +1499
374 Deaths +31

2611 Hospitalized confirmed cases +552
1108 in ICU +23

2796 Suspected cases hospitalized -171
522 suspected cases in ICU -53

Alameda county (not including Berkeley)
Positive Cases: 602 +42
Deaths: 15 +2

Berkeley
Cases 32 +1
Deaths 0

Contra Costa County
442 Cases + 25
Deaths 7
Total tested 5831 +233
Hospitalized 29 -1

San Francisco County
Positive cases 622 +39
Deaths 9
Tests 5645 New data
Positive tests 622 New data

San Mateo County
Positive cases 589 +5
Deaths 21 +8

Santa Clara County
1285 Cases +61
Deaths 43 +1

Sonoma County
Active Cases 84
Recovered 30
Deaths 1
Tests 2580 +96

Solono county
Total confirmed cases 99 +10
Deaths 2 +1
Active cases 33 -2
Total hospitalizations 27 +4

Marin County
Confirmed cases 148 +7
Deaths 10 +3
Persons tested at County site 1780 +295
Hospitalizations 27 +10

Santa Cruz County
Total cases 76 +5
Tests 794 Negative
Hospitalized 9
Deaths 1

Napa County
Active case 23 +2
Deaths 2

Bay leaders are starting to be cautiously optimistic that they are seeing improvement. Two new testing sites opened for first responders. Otherwise not much else.

Posted by: dltravers | Apr 8 2020 3:49 utc | 195

@141 juliania

That was a wonderful comment. It's perfectly written. I hope you kept it. Hang it on the wall. Remind us periodically. I believe that what you say is the essential truth of the people of the US.

There will be a rising of things after this wave passes. Personally, I was hoping not to be here during the time that the inevitable wave would break over us, but that seems to be now, and so I am caught in it like everyone else. So here we are, and for those of us who survive the civic destruction still coming, it will be an interesting sunrise.

Thank you again for that comment. I found it quite brilliant, filled with light. Enormously refreshing, and very hopeful for others. And very American somehow, if I may call it that.

Posted by: Grieved | Apr 8 2020 3:51 utc | 196

Pft @194

Thanks for the historical review.

People need to be aware/become aware of these things.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 8 2020 4:09 utc | 197

Re my 196; The reasoning offered makes sense, but, does it apply to a bio-engineered virus?

I have no idea..

Posted by: ben | Apr 8 2020 4:28 utc | 198

Pacifica Advocate @ 118

Interesting, I found this to educate myself. Most of us humans have no clue...

RNA viruses reproduce less accurately. They usually lack proofreading and have the highest mutation rates of any organisms on Earth. These mutation rates mean that a large complex genome is not possible because their high error rates would cause offspring requiring a large gene set to be nonfunctional. RNA viruses therefore have small genomes and fewer genes. The advantage of such a high error rate is that RNA viruses are capable of rapidly outmaneuvering the host immune system. The strategy of RNA viruses is typically rapid reproduction and moving on to a new host. Because they have less complex relationships with their hosts, RNA viruses are much more capable of moving to new host species. The ability to move to new hosts reduces the selective pressure to not harm the host, and many RNA viruses are more pathogenic. One meta-analysis found that of the 20 virus families infecting the best-studied vertebrate species, humans, four RNA virus families, Reoviridae, Bunyaviridae, Flaviviridae, and Togaviridae, accounted for more than half of emerging and re-emerging viruses.27 Most of the high-profile human viral diseases that have recently emerged are RNA viruses, including Ebola (Filoviridae), severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) (Coronaviridae), Chikungunya (Togaviridae), West Nile (Flaviviridae), influenza (Orthomyxoviridae), and Hendra (Paramyxoviridae) viruses.

Infectious disease

Posted by: dltravers | Apr 8 2020 4:59 utc | 199

China has its own disinformation campaign and agents to divert from its miscalculations, chief of which, is its failure to own up quickly and prevent the spread. Its lockdown on Wuhan came too late to stop some 5 million Wuhanese from escaping the city during the Chinese New Year celebrations in January. Such catastrophic failure seeded the pandemic.

Posted by: Blastwave | Apr 8 2020 5:38 utc | 200

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