U.S. Media Fall For Kim Jong Un Rumor From U.S. Government Financed Propaganda Outlet
U.S. media went crazy today over a rumor from South Korea which said that the North Korean leader Kim Jong Un was near to death:
CNN Breaking News @cnnbrk - 1:49 UTC · Apr 21, 2020
US is monitoring intelligence that North Korean leader Kim Jong Un is in grave danger after surgery, according to a US official https://cnn.it/2KkCVph
The New York Times @nytimes - 4:00 UTC · Apr 21, 2020
North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, is receiving treatment after undergoing a cardiovascular procedure earlier this month, a South Korean media report said, amid speculation over Kim’s health following his absence from a key anniversary event https://nyti.ms/2RW1GMN
What the CNN, NBC News and the NY Times did not say is that the 'South Korean media report' over grave illness of Kim Jong Un, on which their reporting was based, came from the Daily NK website and was itself based on a single anonymous source allegedly from North Korea.
The South Korean and the Chinese government have both rejected the reports:
Two South Korean government officials rejected an earlier CNN report citing an unnamed U.S. official saying Washington was “monitoring intelligence” that Kim was in grave danger after surgery, but they did not elaborate on whether Kim had undergone surgery. The presidential Blue House said there were no unusual signs coming from North Korea.
...
An official at the Chinese Communist Party’s International Liaison Department, which deals with North Korea, told Reuters the source did not believe Kim was critically ill. China is North Korea’s only major ally.Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said Beijing was aware of reports about the health of Kim, but said it does not know their source, without commenting on whether it has any information about the situation.
The report was bad for the South Korean markets:
South Korean shares exposed to North Korea tumbled and the Korean won fell on the reports. The won traded down more than 1% against the dollar even as South Korean government sources said Kim was not gravely ill.
The DailyNK has since published a correction. It now says that Kim might have had a heart problem but is recovering well. The NBC News correspondent Katy Tur deleted her tweet out of a laughable 'abundance of caution'.
When they published the sensational claims none of the western reports mentioned that the DailyNK is not a regular news outlet. It is a website in Seoul which is run by defectors from North Korea. It has for years been financed by the U.S. government through the National Endowment for Democracy which is a CIA offshot. From the NED's 2018 grant report:
The Daily NK - $270,000To raise awareness and understanding of the conditions in North Korea by disseminating accurate, timely, and relevant news and information about the country. The project will produce an online newspaper serving readers in South Korea and the international community, and will provide journalism training to North Koreans working as citizen journalists as well as ongoing professional development for its regionally-based correspondents and stringer reporters.
The DailyNK is a run of the mill U.S. propaganda organization which prepares for a U.S. 'regime change' operation in North Korea.
Earlier records show that the DailyNK has received NED money since at least 2006. Between 2016 and 2019 it received a total of $1,120,000.
When U.S. officials claimed they were 'monitoring intelligence' about Kim Jong Un's health they meant that they were reading the fake news the people at the desk next to them just had produced.
Having been caught falling for a CIA rumor mill report the New York Times engaged in a Trump like move and blamed North Korea for its false reporting: Speculation Over Kim Jong-un’s Health Is Fueled by North Korea’s Own Secrecy.
There might be malicious intent behind the initiation of today's rumor. South Korean President Moon Jae-in is not well liked by U.S. North Korea hawks. Last week Moon's ruling party won an absolute majority in the parliamentary elections. The landslide win came after much success during the recent efforts to contain the novel coronavirus in South Korea.
There is a silent war between the Trump administration, represented by the hawkish U.S. ambassador in Seoul Harry Harris, and the Moon government.
Trump is demanding that South Korea pay $5 billion per year for the stationing of U.S. occupation troops in the country. That is five times more than South Korea currently pays. South Korea has rejected such a hefty increase and the U.S. furloughed 5,000 South Korean workers who were employed on its bases. The negotiations have since stalled.
Ambassador Harris has engaged in sabotage of South Korean policies. Here is just one example. The country recently acquired a Global Hawk reconnaissance drone but wanted to keep that a secret. Despite urgent requests for secrecy from the Moon government Harris tweeted about the arrival of the drone:
US Ambassador Harry Harris disclosed the delivery of the Global Hawk (RQ-4), a US surveillance asset, to the South Korean military and shared a photograph of it despite efforts by South Korean military officials to dissuade him, it has been learned. Observers criticized his unilateral decision to disclose information about his host country’s military in defiance of its wishes as overstepping his authority as a diplomatic representative.
...
Many in and around the military viewed Harris’s tweet as “irregular.”“The Global Hawk is being introduced to South Korea through Foreign Military Sales (FMS) procedures supervised by the US government, but it is unquestionably a surveillance asset of the South Korean Air Force, not the US military,” said one military official.
“As a former commander of the US Indo-Pacific Command, Ambassador Harris may be quite interested in military issues, but it crosses a line for him to unilaterally disclose South Korean military information,” the official continued.
It would not be beyond Harris to launch rumors about North Korea's leader if only to throw the South Korean government off balance.
Posted by b on April 21, 2020 at 17:03 UTC | Permalink
next page »"The leader of this other country we don't like is brain dead!" --prosthetic talking head.
More projection from the exceptionals.
Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 21 2020 17:08 utc | 2
Notwithstanding the very real facts on the ground regarding the murkans vs. the gov of south korea, do you ever wonder how much money is made playing the peaks and valleys of these mis-information floorshows? The Munchkins need ever more munchies and the wild gyros in the market from "trade war" news, for example, are easy pickings for the Black Kings of Cleptocracy.
Posted by: Miss Lacy | Apr 21 2020 17:31 utc | 3
After having read the Global Times, I visited Asia Times to discover this massive dose of misinformation that provoked a great guffaw that further rendered that publication--aside from Pepe Escobar--an unreliable source.
Meanwhile, Escobar at Strategic Culture has published a new timeline related to the revelations or not of the warnings of Outbreak. His piece begins thusly:
"Hybrid War 2.0 on China, a bipartisan U.S. operation, is already reaching fever pitch. Its 24/7 full spectrum infowar arm blames China for everything coronavirus-related – doubling as a diversionist tactic against any informed criticism of woeful American unpreparedness.
"Hysteria [Link to Zerohedge in original] predictably reigns. And this is just the beginning.
"A deluge of lawsuits is imminent – such as the one in the Southern District of Florida entered by Berman Law Group (linked to the Democrats) and Lucas-Compton (linked to the Republicans). In a nutshell: China has to shell out tons of cash. To the tune of at least $1.2 trillion, which happens to be – by surrealist irony – the amount of U.S. Treasury bills held by Beijing, all the way to $20 trillion, claimed by a lawsuit in Texas."
One can see how the misinformation about Kim might be used to promote further "Hysteria." IMO, Pepe properly concludes his article with the following:
"It’s never enough to repeat the question in full: how could U.S. intel have known about a contagion one month before Chinese doctors detected an unknown virus?
"Mike 'We Lie, We Cheat, We Steal' Pompeo may have given away the game when he said, on the record, that Covid-19 was a 'live exercise'. Adding to the ABC News and Israeli reports, the only possible, logical conclusion is that the Pentagon – and the CIA – knew ahead of time a pandemic would be inevitable.
"That’s the smokin’ gun. And now the full weight of the United States government is covering all bases by proactively, and retroactively, blaming China."
I'm seriously considering writing a screenplay for a movie about our pandemics--COVID-19 and the rapacious nonstop "printing" of fiat money.
The US needs all the diversions it can get in the face of the coming breakdown in law and order. (Of which reports are only beginning, as in Paris and the US)
If this is the "live fire exercise" (Pompeo), what would be a full on "action"? and as Karlof1 quotes "the only possible, logical conclusion is that the Pentagon – and the CIA – knew ahead of time a pandemic would be inevitable.
Posted by: Stonebird | Apr 21 2020 17:50 utc | 6
Almost all the news outlets I've read about it omitted the Daily NK as the original source - they only mention "a south korean newspaper". It was definitely proposital; the American journalists definitely knew - from the very beginning - they were spreading a USG propaganda and, therefore, they are themselves propagandists of the USG/CIA, which makes them not only legitimate military targets, but also active combatants for all practical purposes.
Propaganda is a devastating weapon in warfare. It can create morale where there's no casus belli, turn the tide of a lost battle, turn a partial war in a total war (war of anihilation), it can recruit soldiers where there was no individual motivation to do so in low-intensity warfare. Apart from generals and the commander-in-chief, there is no person that kill more people - on both sides - than the propagandist (journalist). The propagandist is the war criminal behind all war criminals.
China, Russia, NK, et al should arrest all the Western journalists they can lay their hands on and condemn them in a martial court. They are military personnel, not civilians.
On a side note: that (now deleted) tweet is hilarious. Like if the NBC sent a Seymour Hersh to investigate the issue under cover in North Korean territory...
Well there is a saying, better to be America's enemy than former friend.
Posted by: Abe | Apr 21 2020 18:41 utc | 8
Remember the Sony hack in 2014 that was blamed on North Korea?
A *lot* of people in the infosec community took that attribution with a grain of salt (although some people claimed they knew what was what, but probably didn't.)
What was not well reported about that was that the movie over which the North Koreans were upset (:The Interview") had a State Department official involved with it. If you remember, the movie involved an assassination attempt on Kim. Well, it turns out that there was also a Rand Corporation employee involved who actually had the hair-brained scheme to drop DVDs of the movie all over North Korea in an attempt to stimulate the real assassination of Kim.
Certain corporate officers at Sony were amenable to this idiotic scheme, apparently. When North Korea went ballistic over the movie, these officers panicked.
And then someone hacked Sony. But Sony had already been hacked before. A lot of people in the infosec community thought the real hackers were either disgruntled former employees of Sony or hackers who were mostly interested in stealing movie footage and the other usual hacker targets (Peronal Identifiable Information - PII - and the like.)
Emails Reveal US State Department Influenced Sony’s “The Interview” so as to Encourage Assassination and Regime Change in North Korea
https://tinyurl.com/yc532nhv
How The Interview Got Made: A Timeline
https://www.vulture.com/2014/12/how-the-interview-got-made-a-timeline.html
So this kind of US nonsense regarding North Korea has been done before. The US *really* wants the North Korean leader - any of them - to die so North Korea will - according to their belief - collapse.
The problem for the US is that North Korea is one hard nut to crack militarily. Pentagon war games estimate fifty thousand US casualties in the first ninety days if the US tries a direct attack. Not even Trump is that dumb. North Korea has one of the largest militaries in the world, albeit with aging hardware. The terrain of North Korea is about the worst for an invading army - rolling hills and mountains - which the Norks have honeycombed with tunnels and bunkers. And the North Koreans are highly motivated to dislike the US. Even if the US did defeat the NK military in conventional combat, an insurgency would be almost certain.
And that doesn't even begin to address what happens if China enters the war, as it did the first one. And China has said they would *if* the US initiated the war.
So Washington is reduced to this sort of nonsense - comedy movies and fake news.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2020 19:06 utc | 9
"Trump is demanding that South Korea pays $5 billion per year for the stationing of U.S. occupation troops in the country. That is five times more than South Korea currently pays. South Korea has rejected such a heft increase and the U.S. furloughed 5,000 South Korean workers who were employed on its bases. The negotiations have since stalled."
Warning for navegantes hosting US bases on their soil, when the US is loose trying to get money from wherever as if there was no tomorrow...
With respect DPRK, the best is going to official sources...to know...
https://twitter.com/DPRK_CAODEBENOS/status/1252526973936689152
On the recent news has no basis. In addition to the fact that the original media has no credibility or cites any source, it specifies that on April 12 they operated on his heart. And the day before he was in training with the pilots.
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Apr 21 2020 19:36 utc | 10
karlof1 | Apr 21 2020 17:35 utc | 4
I just read the Pepe report you linked to. I want to say that I agree with the conclusion that china didn't hide anything from us about the virus.
"Adding to the ABC News and Israeli reports, the only possible, logical conclusion is that the Pentagon – and the CIA – knew ahead of time a pandemic would be inevitable.
That’s the smokin’ gun."
I also read the abc news article, and the israeli news article, and tried to look at his other supporting links (one is a chinese website in chinese characters, not sure that is supposed to help the english reader).
"Our sources say", "according to one official", etc. There is nothing concrete there, no documents, no emails, no actual person to be quoted.
Remember during the run up to the iraq war, when judith miller was using all these 'confidential sources' to spew pure lies? For a short while after that, people were reluctant to believe any 'unnamed sources' and reporters were vowing they wouldn't rely on them any longer.
And yet, here we are with 'smoking gun' evidence based upon nothing more than 'my secret source said', and a bizarre slip of the tongue statement "Pompeo may have given away the game when he said, on the record, that Covid-19 was a “live exercise”." (I can't actually find a transcript of the white house briefing, all I can find is a million articles quoting the line above.)
I am not taking a stance on what the government did or did not know in november, that is not the point I am trying to make.
What I want to draw attention to is why are we taking this as anything more than unsubstantiated rumor.
If one were discussing something that one didn't want to believe, one would not accept what has been offered as proof, it would rightly be rejected as confirmation of nothing. Where as, if one wants to believe that the government has been caught lying, then one readily accepts basically nothing as 'smoking gun' proof.
This is a good way to make oneself subject to legitimate ridicule by ones adversaries. Kind of like people running with rumors of kim's imminent demise.
Surely, Karloff, you can see what I am saying here.
Posted by: David F | Apr 21 2020 19:57 utc | 11
karlof1 | Apr 21 2020 17:35 utc | 4:
You might as well spend time to write that script. What do you have to lose by trying? At least it'll keep you busy with the ongoing government enforced lockdown. Stay away from Hollyweird. Go for Netflix.
Posted by: Ian2 | Apr 21 2020 20:22 utc | 12
Is there no way that South Korea can send US Ambassador Harry Harris back to the US and tell Washington not to send any more ambassadors until after the 2020 Presidential electipns?
Come to think of it, are there any people in the US with the brains, talent and skills required of capable ambassadors to fill such positions? It seems that in nearly every country where there is a US embassy, that institution serves only to cause trouble and chaos in the host nation in order to keep that nation on a tight leash beholden to Washington's orders.
Posted by: Jen | Apr 21 2020 20:23 utc | 13
good catch and overview here b.... i agree the usa wants to keep south korea on a tight leash and are unhappy with the leader of sk at present... he is a peacemaker and the neocons hate peacemakers! i really liked your summation here
"When U.S. officials claimed they were 'monitoring intelligence' about Kim Jong Un's health they meant that they were reading the fake news the people at the desk next to them just had produced.
Having been caught falling for a CIA rumor mill report the New York Times engaged in a Trump like move and blamed......."
one could fill in the blanks to the rest of the last line with any country.. it is standard operation procedure from the usa and it's msm!! thank you cia-ned and etc. etc. for the gift that keeps on taking the usa further and further down into a deeper hole, never to return at some point..
Posted by: james | Apr 21 2020 20:27 utc | 14
@ 13 jen... only neo con coolaid drinkers get the ambassador gigs!!
Posted by: james | Apr 21 2020 20:28 utc | 15
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Apr 21 2020 19:36 utc | 10
I don't see why any country should have to pay to be occupied by the US. If Trump wants the occupation to continue, then the US should pay. I don't know of any case where it's of interest to the country concerned.
Posted by: Laguerre | Apr 21 2020 20:34 utc | 16
Jen | Apr 21 2020 20:23 utc | 13
"Come to think of it, are there any people in the US with the brains, talent and skills required of capable ambassadors to fill such positions?"
I am sure there are more than a few, but would any person with the least bit of integrity want to be a part of the state department?
Posted by: David F | Apr 21 2020 20:43 utc | 17
David F @11--
Yes, Pepe's using the Deep State's own tools against it. Awhile ago, Pepe and I had a brief chat over the publication of his essays based upon the amount of their speculative nature that I revealed to the bar shortly after. As we both know, there's only one way for the prior knowledge to exist by those professing to have it, and that's for them to have instigated the pandemic; thus my screenplay, which takes the same line of reasoning. My current question is as yet unanswered, although I'm capable of making a very good prognostication: Were they able to game plan all the possible effects of Blowback?
Ian2 @12--
Thanks for that tip; I hadn't thought of Netflix.
Jen @13--
Yes, South Korea can expel the US ambassador anytime it chooses. What would be a real difference maker, however, is to abrogate the Treaty resulting in its occupation while at the same time signing a separate Peace Treaty with DPRK.
Posted by: vk | Apr 21 2020 18:13 utc | 7
"China, Russia, NK, et al should arrest all the Western journalists they can lay their hands on and condemn them in a martial court. They are military personnel, not civilians..."
I would love that..
Posted by: JC | Apr 21 2020 20:48 utc | 19
karlof1 | Apr 21 2020 20:45 utc | 18
I did not realize you were a friend of his.
"As we both know, there's only one way for the prior knowledge to exist by those professing to have it, and that's for them to have instigated the pandemic;"
If that had been proven, then I would agree with you. Part of the point I was making is that no one has proven that anyone had prior knowledge, it is an unsubstantiated rumor. But Pepe, and apparently you believe this as well, is acting as if it has been proven and is building upon that to make a further point.
Please address that. In my eyes Pepe is quickly losing credibility.
Posted by: David F | Apr 21 2020 20:53 utc | 20
gone bonkers. a tale of Americans believing their own disinformation.
Propaganda won't cut it in the court room. What are the facts ma'am?
Good luck.!!!! And of Trump's tweets for the defendant's plea. This won't be inscribed for case management.
The doubting Missourians are unaware of sovereign immunity. Litigation lawyers and especially a State's Attorney General aught to know of the doctrine.
See why the U.S. is labelled the most litigious society? All it takes is a 55 cents stamp.
Missouri sues China over coronavirus economic losses
LINK
(Reuters) - Missouri on Tuesday became the first U.S. state to sue the Chinese government over its handling of the coronavirus, saying that China’s response to the outbreak that originated in Wuhan city led to devastating economic losses in the state.The civil lawsuit, filed in federal court by Missouri Attorney General Eric Schmitt, alleges negligence, among other claims. The complaint alleges Missouri and its residents have suffered possibly tens of billions of dollars in economic damages, and seeks cash compensation.
“The Chinese government lied to the world about the danger and contagious nature of COVID-19, silenced whistleblowers, and did little to stop the spread of the disease,” Schmitt, a Republican, said in a statement. “They must be held accountable for their actions.”
The lawsuit also accuses the Chinese government of making the pandemic worse by “hoarding” masks and other personal protective equipment (PPE).[.]
China is already facing similar lawsuits filed in U.S. courts on behalf of U.S. business owners.
International law experts told Reuters that efforts to hold China liable for the coronavirus in U.S. courts will likely fail.
A legal doctrine called sovereign immunity offers foreign governments broad protection from being sued in U.S. courts, said Tom Ginsburg, a professor of international law at the University of Chicago.
Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 21 2020 20:54 utc | 21
Likklemore | Apr 21 2020 20:54 utc | 21
Completely bonkers. Every time I think that the us can't possible get any crazier, we do, is there really no bottom to be found?
Posted by: David F | Apr 21 2020 20:57 utc | 22
karlof1 @18
Intelligence Report Warned of Coronavirus Crisis as Early as November: Sources
The Chinese themselves didn't know about the novel coronavirus until late December. This report from the misnamed "US intelligence community" is as unambiguous an admission of guilt as I can imagine.
I was clued in when the "Operation Mockingbird" mass media was hyping an impending epidemic in very early January when the Chinese were only aware of 41 cases of unusual pneumonia and there were no deaths as yet. I knew that particular media response was only possible if they had knowledge of the outbreak subsequent to the actual outbreak itself. The only way that could have been possible was if the outbreak was a deliberate and planned attack by some group that works with western mass media. Now we have the above open admission from the misnamed "US intelligence community" that they knew about the coming epidemic months before the Chinese did.
The point to this latest disinformation is less obvious, though. Perhaps the CIA somehow slipped some americium hot particles into Kim's tea and they want to prep the ground for the narrative that his coming death is due to bad healthcare in North Korea?
Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 21 2020 21:16 utc | 23
Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 21 2020 17:35 utc | 4
"After having read the Global Times, I visited Asia Times to discover this massive dose of misinformation that provoked a great guffaw that further rendered that publication--aside from Pepe Escobar--an unreliable source....."
I started reading Asia Times sometimes before 2010 or long before sold to a Japanese Media. The previous owners were Australians in HK - where my interest lies. I lived there for 2-yrs. Asia Times with Pepe and few Asian journalist were superb. Now pieces of shit, Americunts and Japanese balls carrier
Posted by: JC | Apr 21 2020 21:31 utc | 24
William Gruff | Apr 21 2020 21:16 utc | 23
I am sure you read the abcnews article. There is nothing in there that proves anything. There is nothing but 'my secret sources tell me' innuendo.
Here is a link of the timeline concerning china and the virus, it begins 12/31, on 1/4 and 1/5 WHO made public declarations, so why is it surprising that us news picked it up in early january.
I like this site because a lot of the regulars are critical thinkers. I am shocked that at least two people here at MOA, whose opinions I generally respect and mostly agree with, are not thinking critically and are acting like they have some irrefutable proof.
See my comment at 11 and 20.
Posted by: David F | Apr 21 2020 21:36 utc | 25
Laguerre@16
Nobody could disagree with you but, as we all know, the situation in Korea is complicated by the fact that the war there has never been ended. South Korea is still, de jure, at war with the North and the Occupation forces are, in official terms, allies ready to ward off anticipated aggression. There is, in South Korea, a very powerful current in politics which insists that there should not be a peace treaty and that pressure on the North will eventually lead to regime change there. In their view treating with Pyongyang is treasonable. They are, of course, and have been for seventy years, consciously acting as agents of the Empire, just as their parents acted as agents of and allies to the previous, Japanese, occupation regime.
Posted by: bevin | Apr 21 2020 21:40 utc | 26
@Posted by: Laguerre | Apr 21 2020 20:34 utc | 16
In the case of Spain, it was in the interest of Franco, as it came as a price for being accepted by the "international community" dominated by the US, and not being "democraticed" as so many others were, a bill then payed by some hundreds of thousands of sumarily executed left wing Spaniards who still lay in unknown ditches...
The whole history of US bases in Spain was recently broadcast by a private TV channel, only omitting the part of the manipulated referendum to enter NATO, as in that scam, well adviced by the CIA, it was involved a "socialist" in charge at the time, Felipe Gonzalez, a man so "socialist" that ended in the board of directors of a Mexican billionaire´s corporation, and whom suspiciously the Spanish far-right claims now for to form a government of national concentration...
With such "socialists", who needs fascists?
Btw, as a curious note, the Spanish far-right, who uses to wear all kind of paraphernalia with the Spanish flag to show the rest that they are the most patriot, voted against Coronabonos in the last meeting of the Eurogroup, attacking the interests of their alleged country and thus demonstrating which is really their motherland, the corporate world and banks,i.e. money...
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Apr 21 2020 21:46 utc | 28
[Every time] I think that the us can't possible get any crazier, we do, is there really no bottom to be found?
Posted by: David F | Apr 21 2020 20:57 utc | 22
David, my fellow barfly, the bottom fell out of the US bucket some 49 years ago. What is not well understood in the Alice in La-La-land illusion; "all is not well, we are not exceptional. There is a crisis and the world will stop dancing to our fiddle."
It's the US dollar; we are observing the petrodollar in crisis. On Monday, Oil Contracts failed to perform. On Tuesday, we have an encore. The great question: who are the Counterparties?
"U.S. President Donald Trump called on the government to make funds available to the U.S. oil and gas industry, calling Monday’s crash a “financial squeeze” and mooting a halt to Saudi imports." Source
How many Trillions to the pile? A Trillion here, a Trillion there as we sleepwalk into Depression V.2.0 wrapped within the Great Lockdown.
The Markets are in panic. BUT, look over there, Kim may be dying !!!!!!!
Do you have a luxury bunker in New Zealand?
Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 21 2020 21:53 utc | 29
Posted by: bevin | Apr 21 2020 21:40 utc | 26
Waste of time. There's no real danger of the South being invaded by North Korea. If SK wants to pay for its occupation, who can say no?
Posted by: Laguerre | Apr 21 2020 22:01 utc | 30
"Every time I think that the us can't possible get any crazier, we do, is there really no bottom to be found?"
it aint we. anyway it aint ME.
they just keep digging deeper trenches, hunny. no, there is no bottom until we take away their shovel.
People ought know by now that the first lie they tell you is that they don't lie. I'm betting Kim had stents put in. He'll be better than ever.
Barr is barking about joining law suits against governors who maintain closures for purpose of physical distancing now. no bottom at all, luv. stop expecting otherwise.
Posted by: Phryne's frock | Apr 21 2020 22:12 utc | 31
So far, the mortality rate among North Koreans reported dead by our media is remarkably low.
One could wonder, a day after a carnage in the oil market, who could possibly be interested in North Korea? Those propaganda outfits have some long term plans, a modest budget and some regular production of revelations. How many people this "South Korean newspaper" can employ for 27k per year? Do they save on office space like some subsidized experts in England?
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Apr 21 2020 22:20 utc | 32
Concerning "petro-dollar in crisis", I think it is still premature. The "dollar power" of USA is really the power to screen all bank transactions in USA and allied countries and use it for economic sanctions. Some of that power stems from Federal Reserve processing the transaction, but most of it originates from compliance by SWIFT and probably by allies in the Pacific. So that power is predicated on the craven servility of all NATO+ allies, and it does not seem to wane. Putative "Corbyn rebellion" was squashed.
That said, while medical-industrial complex is the largest generator of super-sized profits and petroleum is a huge industry, MIC has super-sized importance for various reasons. The profits in that sector can be decimated by the bankruptcy of the best customers, the Gulfies. But at the end of the day, their income comes mostly from taxpayers, they will do better than the oil company, restaurants etc.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Apr 21 2020 22:29 utc | 33
Karloff
William Gruff
I would like to respectfully request that you respond to my replies to you @20 and @25 respectively, concerning your supposition that this ABCNews Intel Report offers proof that the us intel agencies had prior evidence of the virus.
ABC News is not a reliable source, and any report or article that relies on anonymous sources has no credibility, and finally, the report, as far as we know, only exists because anonymous officials said it does. How then does this constitute proof?
Also, William: "I was clued in when the "Operation Mockingbird" mass media was hyping an impending epidemic in very early January when the Chinese were only aware of 41 cases of unusual pneumonia and there were no deaths as yet."
The WHO was making public announcements as early as jan 4th, so why is it odd that the us news picked up on this in early january? WHO China Timeline
This is unconfirmed hearsay from an untrustworthy source relying on anonymous sources.
If abcnews said they had a report stating that china was preparing a sneak attack on the us, and they had confirmed it with anonymous us officials, and hence we should attack them first, you would rightly call bullshit. So why are you so ready to believe this news article that replicates the exact same conditions.
Posted by: David F | Apr 21 2020 22:38 utc | 34
David F & William Gruff--
I wrote: Awhile ago, Pepe and I had a brief chat over the publication of his essays based upon the amount of their speculative nature that I revealed to the bar shortly after.
Strategic Culture is where Pepe has his most speculative articles published. Only his FB Page is more subjective. Asia Times, Consortium News, The Saker publish his objective articles. At his FB, Pepe publishes things that won't be published elsewhere or won't in a timely manner, like the PressTV video on the oil thread. Pepe's 65 and has globetrotted for at least the past 40 years accumulating contacts globally like no other journalist. He gets to talk with people those of us here can only dream about communicating with. IMO, his morals and ethics are beyond reproach as is his credibility, but I still crosscheck his sources just as I do with all others since that's my research method. The piece in question is written such that it's clear Pepe's investigating and asking questions. He did the same with Russiagate, the entire Arab Spring and the Iraqi WMD and its doggy dossier before that. His truths have stood out amongst the lies of others; but to date, his credibility's never been impeached and remains impeccable. Not even the late Robert Parry could have claimed that.
laguerre / bevin... i agree with you both, in particular laguerres comment - why should anyone pay, including south korea, for the usa's military presence? until one realizes this is exactly how the mafia works, it is kind of hard to fathom why anyone would pay... so yeah - usa - present day mafia - same deal... hopefully it will end soon.. as b's article highlights the usa neo cons are constantly throwing dirt in the idea that south koreas leader would try to make peace with north korea, in spite of the fact that most everyone wants this! it doesn't work for the mafia in washington... if you can figure a way around this, let me know... sooner or later someone has to call the godfathers bluff.. might not be now, but it is coming...
Posted by: james | Apr 21 2020 22:44 utc | 36
Well colour me surprised!! If they can fall for Pelosi they can fall for any BS.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 21 2020 22:44 utc | 37
karlof1 | Apr 21 2020 22:39 utc | 35
Our posts must have just crossed each other 34 & 35.
"The piece in question is written such that it's clear Pepe's investigating and asking questions."
But, that is not the case, he is clearly making a statement:
"Adding to the ABC News and Israeli reports, the only possible, logical conclusion is that the Pentagon – and the CIA – knew ahead of time a pandemic would be inevitable.
That’s the smokin’ gun."
The israeli report is based entirely on the abcnews report, and I have why that is not valid in my post at 34. So, neither of these are valid.
The pompeo statement, is bizarre, but proof of nothing.
He is clearly stating that we have proof, when we clearly don't.
ps He needs to update his picture, all the pics I have seen he looks to be between 35-45.
Posted by: David F | Apr 21 2020 22:51 utc | 38
"A clinical trial has begun on a third potential coronavirus vaccine in China, where the first cases of the deadly virus strain were detected late last year.
According to researchers involved in the latest trial, “tens of volunteers” in Xuzhou, Jiangsu province were given the vaccine candidate on Thursday and it had already shown “positive results”.
China Jia You, China Jia You, China Jia You,
Posted by: JC | Apr 21 2020 23:00 utc | 39
David F @38--
David, @18 I wrote, Pepe's using the Deep State's own tools against it as we saw all the time with Russiagate. It's a process wherein one BigLie Media outlet will publish something from an unnamed source or just completely made-up that then gets cited by other media outlets until it becomes part of the Conventional Wisdom despite it's being completely circular and most likely false. What's known as the Establishment Narrative is constructed in a similar manner and upheld by BigLie Media. Caitlin Johnstone writes about this all the time and has made it her vendetta to kill it as it plays a very large role in the Orwellian Control mechanisms used to manipulate us. The Outlaw US Empire's government deems those media and intel sources as credible, so Pepe recites back what they've said and connects the dots in such a manner that it's close to impossible for the Outlaw US Empire to say Pepe's reporting isn't credible. Important, Pepe's reciting the previous reports, not generating his own. He then asks, if the government deems those sources credible and they said those things when they did, why then did it take so long for the government to do anything aside from calling the pandemic a "hoax"?
Many weeks ago I wrote that it was China who Cried Wolf and alerted the world to COVID-19 at the pandemic's outset, and crucially that it didn't matter if the virus was natural or manufactured; what mattered is its existence and affects. China reacted as it did thanks to its previous experience with earlier viruses and clamped down massively when it realized what it was facing. Trump and the West laughed at China's predicament just as they did previously. But this time it's different. Combine the West's behavior with the revelations Pepe provides and form your own conclusions based on what we know was done to China, North Korea, and the US populace previously as Walter, myself and others discussed. Tens of thousands just within the Outlaw US Empire have needlessly died because of an ideology--Neoliberalism--when in a moral and just world if the virus was natural the toll would be much less. Almost daily, some Chinese media platform askes Why didn't the West use the time and expertise provided by China to mitigate its losses, a question the West studiously refuses to answer and instead accuses China of causing it all, just as with Russiagate.
@18 I agree with you completely. There are way too many coincidences for this thing to be fortuitous for so many good things which aid them in furthering their plans of a downsized population, a serf, poor working class with only so much education to be happy servants and complete control over us. It is a sick dream but this virus really expedites their plans. Plus there are many incendiary benefits as well. They get richer, more emboldened and arrogant.
Posted by: Linda Amick | Apr 21 2020 23:51 utc | 41
Here's the most recent assessment by the WHO as to the origin of COVID-19:
"'All available evidence suggests the virus has an animal origin and is not manipulated or constructed in a lab or somewhere else,' [WHO Spokeswomen] said, as reported by Reuters. 'It is probable, likely, that the virus is of animal origin.'"
"Probable, likely" but not certainly "of animal origin." But there's "no available evidence point[ing] to the virus being a creation of a lab."
And it's entirely possible that question and others will remain unanswered for quite awhile. As I wrote many weeks ago and reiterated again above, it doesn't matter except for scoring points in the Blame Game if the virus is natural or not--it exists, its affects must be dealt with, and those affects must not be allow any entity to profit from them as is sadly already occurring in nations with parasitic economies.
Re: the supposed CIA intel report on what China knew in November, and Escobar's speculation... First off, let's be clear that the anonymous intelligence sources saying China knew about an infection in November -- this is clearly fake news, since the novel coronavirus wasn't discovered till Dec. 30th, and the motivation of this propaganda is to push the idea that China knew something in November and was covering it up. It is bizarre that Escobar is taking this fake news as real, and drawing conclusions from it.
This US propaganda is not consistent with other US messaging, such as trying to blame China -- because if the US govt also knew of COVID in November, then they are fully responsible for their COVID response and cannot blame China for it. But propaganda messaging can be messy like that, in which all the views don't add up to form a coherent, logically-consistent picture.
Posted by: occupatio | Apr 22 2020 0:18 utc | 43
Linda Amick @41--
Thanks for your reply! We've yet to reach the end of the tale, but the closest any previous fantasy has come IMO is 12 Monkeys because of its Red Herring aspect. Hard to tell what will happen next aside from the likelihood of it being ugly like the shooting in Canada.
David F @25
ABC has CIA assets on staff. Neither the CIA nor any other subdivision of the misnamed "US intelligence community" has retracted or contested the existence of the report. That means the CIA is standing by that narrative, at least for now.
Of course the report is bogus, and it was "leaked" in a brain dead effort to try to buttress the narrative that China knew about the contagion well before they announced it to the world. The problem is that this narrative that the contagion was known about by the Chinese in November was developed in advance of the CIA actually launching the attack, and it depended upon there being a MUCH wider spread of the effects of the bio attack within China. A wider spread would have disguised the fact that nobody was infected before mid November and would allow the narrative that the disease had been spreading in secret for months to be somewhat believable. The fact that the Chinese succeeded in smashing this attack by the CIA flat before it could spread wrecks that whole narrative, but the CIA and its servile tools in the mass media don't have a better narrative prepared to sell to the American public, so they go ahead with this one that implicates them.
You see, it doesn't even matter if the report contains any factual material or not. The fact that it is being fed to the public via "reputable" CIA-managed channels is all that matters. It doesn't matter who the "secret sources" are. The fact that the misnamed "US intelligence community" is not objecting means that they are backing the narrative. If they are backing the narrative then they are the guilty parties.
Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 22 2020 0:19 utc | 45
karlof1 | Apr 21 2020 23:37 utc | 40
That is some bullshit. I've had a feeling most of the afternoon that this is where we would end up, but I didn't expect you to just admit that you/he are intentionally spreading false information. For the people's own good, of course.
This might win over some short term converts, at least until they realize that they have been played for a fool. They will stop listening at best, or realizing that they have been lied to or manipulated they will assume said person is the enemy as well.
They might actually wonder how someone so well known can get people inside government to keep telling him secrets. They might also wonder why the said government can't figure out how to stop their guys from telling him such secrets. They might also wonder why said government doesn't just keep track of him and see who he is talking to in order to figure out who is telling him these secrets. And finally, they might come to the conclusion that he is actually part of, or works for, the government and has been duping them all along.
So, in the long run nothing is gained, and in fact, much is lost, assuming of course, that said person is acting in the interest of the common person. On the other hand if said person is just a fucking dick enriching himself by lying to people who trusted him, well then I guess from his perspective much is gained, and little is lost.
Wonder how many people who read this exchange are going to find Pepe still worth reading?
Do you speak for karloff as well, or does he have a different reason for spreading false information?
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 0:20 utc | 46
the Pentagon – and the CIA – knew ahead of time a pandemic would be inevitable this is exactly how the mafia works david F @ 38 it is .. hard to fathom why anyone would pay... so yeah - usa - present day mafia james @ 36, this virus really expedites their plans. Plus there are many incendiary benefits as well. They get richer, more emboldened and arrogant. by: Linda Amick |@ 41
Yes yes, you can talk about the gains unleashing the virus on the world has brought to the Mafia, while you folks ignore the opportunity the virus has given the governed masses in the world to unseat the Mafia.
How can the masses governed by mafia within nation state boundaries use the opportunity afforded by the CoVid 19 pandemic to unify and to enable a global, unified self determination? Why has the right of self determination and Covid 19 pandemic not become the co-narrative?
Posted by: snake | Apr 22 2020 0:22 utc | 47
karlof1
Origins make a big difference in the way the current situation and future can be viewed.
Lack of known ancestry leaves origins open, and as I have put in previous comments, its lack of recent ancestry compared to SARS-1 is reason for suspicion on its own.
This shows the known family group around SARS-CoV compared to SARS-CoV-2. https://nextstrain.org/groups/blab/sars-like-cov?c=host
A huge amount of research has gone into the coronavirus strains in China since SARS-1 - testing many animals ect so it is odd more SARS-CoV-2 family members do not show up in the records.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 22 2020 0:25 utc | 48
Regarding the "this is a live exercise" comment, it is embedded in this post https://www.globalresearch.ca/secretary-state-mike-pompeo-admits-covid-19-live-exercise-president-trump-comments-i-wish-you-would-have-told-us/5707223
The official narrative begins with Wuhan but what about the earlier events in 2019?
Jan-August 2019 - US government ran a pandemic simulation called Crimson Contagion, based on an infectious coronavirus coming from a food market in China
July 2019 - Fort Detrick is closed because of safety deficiencies https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2019/08/08/the-cdc-shut-down-an-army-lab-thats-working-on-an-ebola-vaccine/
June-July 2019 - residents die of unusual pneumonia in a nursing home an hour's drive from Fort Detrick https://www.mcknights.com/news/mystery-grows-as-3rd-resident-dies-from-still-unidentified-respiratory-illness/
October 18-27 - the World Military Games at Wuhan and the 300-strong US contingent stayed at Wuhan Oriental Hotel located close to the Wuhan Seafood Market
October 25 - Five contestants at the Military Games developed a fever and were taken to an infectious-diseases hospital for treatment.
November 2019 - 42 employees of the Oriental Hotel were diagnosed with COVID-19, becoming the first cluster in Wuhan. At the time only 7 people from the market had been thus diagnosed.
There comes a point when the long chain of coincidence is recognised as something far beyond synchronicity or as karlof1 says "there's only one way for the prior knowledge to exist by those professing to have it, and that's for them to have instigated the pandemic".
Posted by: cirsium | Apr 22 2020 0:26 utc | 49
occupation @43--
IMO, Pepe's deliberately doing this to force people to recognize the illogic in what was reported as news/intel, while also directly challenging the Narrative. What I find distinctively fishy is the behavior of Trump and the West during January and February--I see it as a form of the dog that didn't bark. The Chinese seem to share my suspicion.
occupatio | Apr 22 2020 0:18 utc | 43
Did you not read the post at 40? According to karloff, who claims to be Pepe's friend, Pepe is not falling for anything, he is intentionally spreading misinformation in some 12 dimensional chess master fashion.
Gruff has a different convoluted reason why he is standing behind said report, equally unconvincing I must say.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 0:26 utc | 51
David F #25
If the abc story that William Gruff and karlof1 cites is based on a real security assessment (with dates reaching back before October) then there is every possibility that it or substantive material linked to it will be leaked in to the public domain.
That abc story is alluding to a wide distribution and subsequent briefings. Hundreds must have read it and attended direct or indirect sessions. The swamp is not drained, the democrazies are infiltrated everywhere, the 'get Trump' mania is far stronger in an election year than the 'hate China' mania.
So it will leak before the next full moon or two, or it won't exist. Keep your eye on Cryptome.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 22 2020 0:31 utc | 52
So, when an anonymous story from an untrustworthy source says something that people want to hear, we should accept it and embrace it. (Government lying to us about planting the virus)
When an anonymous story from an untrustworthy source says something that people dont want to hear, we should dismiss it as propaganda. (WMD in iraq)
What is the fucking difference between these two stories and their sources? One tells people what they want to believe, the other tells them something they don't want to believe.
Fucking unbelievable, I sincerely thought most people here would us critical thinking, and would dismiss bullshit, even if it was bullshit that would support what they believed to be true.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 0:39 utc | 53
This David F doth protest too much, methinks.
No false information is being spread here. The CIA narrative is simply being interpreted in a way that the CIA doesn't like and that they didn't expect (because they are profoundly stupid and cannot even handle one dimensional chess, which is particularly tragic as there are no moves at all in one dimensional chess for the players to ponder).
I appreciate the poster's efforts to protect the intended meaning of the narrative that the "Operation Mockingbird" mass media is trying to install in the public's consciousness, but suggesting that karlof1 is fabricating a false version of that narrative is silly. As well, raging over Escobar bringing attention to flaws in the CIA's narrative isn't going to make those flaws go away.
Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 22 2020 0:41 utc | 54
Posted by: occupatio | Apr 22 2020 0:18 utc | 43 But propaganda messaging can be messy like that, in which all the views don't add up to form a coherent, logically-consistent picture.
Several points:
1) In intelligence operations, confusion is advantageous - so efforts are made to maximize the confusion. There's a saying: Confusion to the enemy.
2) This confusion can rebound on the people who are controlling the operation, or organizations tangential to the operation.
3) Some of this allegedly comes from Israeli sources - how does Israel stand to benefit from spreading this sort of thing? Gain more support from Trump (like they need it)? That's just one possibility.
4) Pepe Escobar may indeed be playing up the story as a way to turn the tables on the real perpetrators. Violates journalistic ethics, I'd say, but, hey... But it would seem he's not actually claiming to have seen any of this himself - he's just citing the reports everyone else is giving credence to...
5) Uncle Tungsten at Apr 22 2020 0:31 utc | 52 may be correct - if it is an intelligence operation, someone may spill the scenes deliberately or accidentally - but that's only *if* there were in fact real briefings and wide distribution in the first place - which no one knows for sure. Wait on Wikileaks?
6) "Dog That Didn't Bark" - only works if you *know* the Dog was actually there...otherwise it's evidence of nothing.
7) Basing a conspiracy theory on reports from sources you don't know who have motivations you don't know is...exactly why conspiracy theories get a bad name...
8) If this is an intelligence operation - or simply some BS from an over-eager journalist who got sold a bill of goods - it could end up screwing over the people who started it - unintended consequences do exist... That includes any efforts Trump may try to get some kind of advantage over China based on this.
9) I'd be more interested if Seymour Hersh said this stuff...but he seems to have vanished into the ether after his biography came out...did they get to him over the Seth Rich issue, as I suspect (without evidence, I might add)?
10) For the record, I have no opinion because I don't see any hard evidence - or even hard intelligence - for or against any of this stuff. Until there is, I will remain vaguely interested, but unconvinced - just like the coronavirus origin story, which, as I've said before, is irrelevant since 1) it happened, and 2) no one will or can be held accountable for it.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 22 2020 0:52 utc | 55
What is important about the ABC story is NOT what the intended narrative was, but rather what the unintended implications are.
This seems obvious. I wonder what could be causing the poster above to object so strenuously to drawing conclusions from the article that are not aligned with the conspicuous intention of the article, but which do not otherwise conflict with the article. Would the poster be objecting so frantically to the article if no one was pointing out how it implicates the US? I wonder because there are forums out there on the `Net where the article is being used to try to suggest that China was hiding the contagion for months, but the poster is not there trying to fight that narrative. Instead the poster is here freaking out over the logical implications of the article.
Curious.
Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 22 2020 0:55 utc | 56
cirsium #49
There comes a point when the long chain of coincidence is recognised as something far beyond synchronicity or as karlof1 says "there's only one way for the prior knowledge to exist by those professing to have it, and that's for them to have instigated the pandemic".
I gather from the abundance of reports that there has been intensive and revelatory research into coronavirus in general and all by international teams. Read that 2010 paper by Australian, Chinese and USA scientists.
I say that every government / security service would be well aware of the lethality of this virus as it either mutates or is tinkered with. All will be (or should be) watching any infection outbreak like a hawk. The danger is that jumping at shadows might be more likely than responding to outbreaks or initiating attacks. See the other thread on Kim Jong and his ticker as a case in point.
I must also say that the planetary taxpayers have spent a god awful millions of dollars on research and all we get is a either a naturally occurring or engineered virus and no vaccine, no medication, no preparedness for an outbreak.
So I advocate closing all military CBW labs and maintaining a few public labs for research and (given we now know how deadly Coronavirus are) build our hospital and equipment stocks up to meet a future mutation.
Closing the global economy every five years will render our cities to the same status as the pyramids on the Giza plateau otherwise.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 22 2020 0:56 utc | 57
William Gruff | Apr 22 2020 0:41 utc | 54
"This David F doth protest too much, methinks."
I pointed out that said article is fact free, that it offers not a shred of proof, and you both said it is proof that our government knew in advance of the virus, and since they knew in advance, the must be responsible for it. When I point out that it doesn't prove any such thing, please explain yourselves, you both give bullshit reasons.
Karloff just admitted it, although, he tried to justify it. You tried to say that because it wasn't denied (even though it was denied), that in itself was proof.
Both of you guys are full of shit. What are we in alice in wonderland here, where words mean what you want them to, and not what they are defined as?
I invite anyone to read everything that has been referenced in this conversation, and then tell me that there is nothing false being said here. Links to pepe's article, the abc news article, and the who timeline are all in this thread.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 0:59 utc | 58
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 0:39 utc | 53 I sincerely thought most people here would us critical thinking, and would dismiss bullshit, even if it was bullshit that would support what they believed to be true.
Heh, well, now you know. Read my comment above - we don't know whether it is BS or not, which makes your position not much more useful to you than theirs. I suggest adopting my "interesting - but unproven and possibly unprovable - and in any event, unaccountable" position the safest.
After all, to what degree are you directly affected by whether it's true or not? I submit you're not affected at all. At least, not until we have a nuclear war with China or some other major problem (other than the virus itself and its consequences) actually materializes that does directly affect us.
There's a rule in martial arts: Only defend against an actual attack. Don't worry about attacks that miss you.
I'm sitting here quite unharmed by anything the CIA and Israel or whoever is doing. Now if I *knew* who was at fault - not just suspecting, but *knew* - *and* I had the *resources* to *do* something about it - they'd be dead. But none of that is true for me now - or likely in the near future.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 22 2020 0:59 utc | 59
David F, karlof1, Wm Gruff, et al
1) FYI the Chinese first became aware of the virus in late December but they later traced the earliest victim to December 1st.
2) The timeline from December 30, when the Chinese first recognized that there was a new virus and afterwards doesn't support the Chinese hiding or withholding info about the novel virus.
The ABCNews report is clearly trying to make the case that the 'hiding' of the virus occurred between November and December 30.
From the USA perspective: If USA knew facts that indicate a possible pandemic which later occurred, then China MUST HAVE KNOW the severity of the situation well before they told the world.
4) The ABCNews report seems to be suggesting that Trump is a dunderhead who was duped by China. Most Americans, and many non-Americans, will find that believable cause they view Trump as incompetent.
5) The ABCNews Report's being verified by Israel is important because it shows that this narrative is no mistake. It's going to be pushed further. I'd guess it will form the basis for the lawsuits against China seeking compensation for virus-related damages.
<> <> <> <> <> <>
David F doesn't understand the import of the ABCNews report but he's asking the right questions.
karlof1 seems evasive because he not providing direct answers to David F's questions. "Trust Pepe" is not enough.
Wm Gruff is right about CIA assets in media.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 22 2020 1:07 utc | 60
Gruff,
Not curious at all. I asked both of you very early on how said article constitutes proof, and instead of answering that you piled more shit on, and now are deflecting about my motives.
My motive have been very clearly stated from the beginning.
Neither of you has any credibility any longer in my opinion.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 1:08 utc | 61
The strangely frantic poster is claiming that Escobar and karlof1 are saying false things. This is surprising as they are just pointing out the implications of what the CIA-managed media outlet, ABC, is claiming in its published article. Rather than shrieking about the source article itself being lies and taking his ire to its authors at ABC, the poster is spitting bile over people simply drawing entirely logical conclusions from the article. Somehow the poster above is trying to create an equivalency between analyzing the implications of an article and manufacturing lies.
That is not a rational position to be taking. Indeed, it is highly irrational and causes me to question the poster's intentions to be engaging in this manner.
Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 22 2020 1:15 utc | 62
"The ABCNews Report's being verified by Israel is important because it shows that this narrative is no mistake. It's going to be pushed further. I'd guess it will form the basis for the lawsuits against China seeking compensation for virus-related damages."
Seriously, since when is anything from MSM taken to be of any value? Are they valuable when they confirm our own biases, and full of shit when they don't? Do some posters here have inside info from the cia they are not sharing?
If you read the israeli report, which I did, it simply says according the abc news report. It doesnt add a shred of new information.
Said report from abc is not even supposedly from the cia, it is from National Center for Medical Intelligence.
My original point was why people were suddenly taking an anonymous report from abcnews as proof of anything, when questioned about this, both posters started spewing all kinds of other shit.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 1:15 utc | 63
@49 cirsium The interesting thing about that mysterious outbreak of pneumonia at the Greenspring Retirement Community is that all of the reports state categorically that the CDC took samples and were investigating.
In which case I would expect to find some reference that that outbreak at the CDC website. But a search shows nothing.
Maybe I'm just not using the right search items, can anyone else find any acknowledgement on the CDC web site that they have/haven't identified that pathogen?
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Apr 22 2020 1:17 utc | 64
William,
Lets back up, and you tell me how said article is proof, which was my original question to you.
You might also answer the other question I asked you originally.
Then, you could prove that I am mistaken, and indeed irrational, and I will apologize. Fair enough?
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 1:23 utc | 65
Concerning "petro-dollar in crisis", I think it is still premature.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Apr 21 2020 22:29 utc | 33
Can you wrap your mind around what has just unfolded and where we are at?
Negative interest rates. Negative oil price. Oil is priced in USD.
Oh and just a little sugar to coat the poison, this afternoon the CME Group announced it will allow Negative Oil Options Effective April 22
[In other words], so great was the demand from CME clients to issue negative strike options after Monday's fiasco, that it will now be a regular staple of the commodity market for the duration of the coronavirus-induced demand collapse, where every month at contract maturity we should now expect the price of oil to be "pinned" deep in negative territory.It also begs the following philosophical question: does negative gamma on negative options strikes become... positive?
Let that sink in. Negative Oil price. I produce it and pay you to take it !!!
The dollar has been supported from oil revenues being reinvested into US Treasuries (USTs) since 1973. Now the FED will step in to replace the demand by monetization. Oil producing nations, who were previous supporters of the petrodollar will sell those USTs just to stay afloat in the US$20/bbl price environment - new normal going negative..
And this:
40% of Oil Producers will go bankrupt if oil is at $30/bbl
Source: Kansas City Fed
Suggest you read the link posted by ARN at 7 in b's post "Negative Prices Mark The End Of U.S. Shale"
Revolutionary Times and Systemic Collapse – “The System Cannot Handle It” by Alastair Cooke
[Since 2007], President Putin has been pointing to one overarching threat to global trade: And that problem was simply, the U.S. dollar.And now, that dollar is in crisis. We are referring, here, not so much to America’s domestic financial crisis (although the monetisation of U.S. debt is connected to threat to the global system), but rather, how the international trading system is poised to blow apart, with grave consequences for everyone.[.]
In other words, Covid-19 may be the trigger, but it is the U.S. dollar – as President Putin has long warned – that is the root problem:
“We’re looking at a commodity-price collapse and a collapse in global trade unlike anything we’ve seen since the 1930s”, said Ken Rogoff, the former chief economist of the IMF, now at Harvard University. An avalanche of government-debt crises is sure to follow, he said, and “the system just can’t handle this many defaults and restructurings at the same time”.[..]
Sobering. Surreal. U.S. government debt crisis. Negative price oil in USD. Won't end well.
Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 22 2020 1:24 utc | 66
I realize that the poster is incurious. The poster's behavior nonetheless remains curious.
The poster demands absolute proof, but my hotline to his god is down at the moment. As such there is no absolute proof available anywhere to sooth the poor poster's anguish. What is available, though, is analysis of the testimony of the culprits' associates, in this case ones that work at ABC. That analysis is accurate. If the poster contests the source material that analysis is based upon then the poster needs to take that up with its authors.
Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 22 2020 1:24 utc | 67
David F @63
You seem to be lacking an understanding of propaganda.
You can dismiss the report as not credible if you like, but it establishes a narrative that others will fall in line with.
=
not even supposedly from the cia
If you think a 'report' like this, which is then backed by Israel, is something that originates in some backwater agency then you're really gullible.
=
why people were suddenly taking an anonymous report from abcnews as proof of anything
Some will take it seriously. Others will deal with it as a propaganda narrative.
It's very difficult to refute a narrative like this. Refuting requires facts that can be shown to be false. The ABCNews report is short on facts.
Peter AU2 @48 and cirsium @49 doing heavy lifting of a factual debunking.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 22 2020 1:36 utc | 68
"The poster demands absolute proof, but my hotline to his god is down at the moment. As such there is no absolute proof available anywhere to sooth the poor poster's anguish."
Did you not post this earlier (below)? I will bold the parts where you made the claims that I questioned you about. I did not demand that you prove what the authors of the article claimed, I asked you why you thought said article constituted proof to your satisfaction as you stated in your post? So, do you want to keep deflecting by making smart ass comments or do you want to defend what you wrote? I suspect it will be the former.
William Gruff | Apr 21 2020 21:16 utc | 23
karlof1 @18
Intelligence Report Warned of Coronavirus Crisis as Early as November: Sources
The Chinese themselves didn't know about the novel coronavirus until late December. This report from the misnamed "US intelligence community" is as unambiguous an admission of guilt as I can imagine.
I was clued in when the "Operation Mockingbird" mass media was hyping an impending epidemic in very early January when the Chinese were only aware of 41 cases of unusual pneumonia and there were no deaths as yet. I knew that particular media response was only possible if they had knowledge of the outbreak subsequent to the actual outbreak itself. The only way that could have been possible was if the outbreak was a deliberate and planned attack by some group that works with western mass media. Now we have the above open admission from the misnamed "US intelligence community" that they knew about the coming epidemic months before the Chinese did.
The point to this latest disinformation is less obvious, though. Perhaps the CIA somehow slipped some americium hot particles into Kim's tea and they want to prep the ground for the narrative that his coming death is due to bad healthcare in North Korea?"
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 1:39 utc | 69
JR,
I fully understand what propaganda is. Thanks. I have yet to see a person who has chimed in on this, answer any of the questions I have posed about why this report is valid, when people here routinely and correctly dismiss MSM as propaganda.
Instead I see lots of people who understand how the world and all it nefarious intelligence agencies work, and unfortunately for me, I am too stupid to understand.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 1:44 utc | 70
One thing that we ought to have learned about imperialistic propaganda is that it doesn't need to make any sense. It doesn't matter at all to them that the claims they make are obviously ridiculous and easily refuted.
By the same token this propaganda needs no co-ordination: once people have got the basic idea "China: BAD" "Putin: cunning rascal", it matters not at all whether the latest 'proof' on CNN directly contradicts the current editorial in the NYTimes, or whether the Washington Post's 'evidence' is obviously also an alibi showing that USToday is full of shit.
It is often said that this sort of propaganda can be traced back to Walter Lippmann or Sigmund Freud's nephew or Madison Avenue, whereas in fact it comes straight from Salem's witchhunting days and the long, long, ugly saga of the Lynch Mob in America. No proof was needed to burn a witch, tear a negro into souvenir sized pieces or chase a Red into exile. Just charges, just assertions, just lies.
Talking of lies :
https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020/04/21/623589/UK-Coronavirus-Government-Disinformation-Campaign
Posted by: bevin | Apr 22 2020 1:57 utc | 71
Well, maybe the mystery of the virus origins will soon be known. Get this:
"FRN has confirmed reports that hackers have successfully hacked accounts belonging to Bill Gates, the WHO, and a lab in Wuhan believed to be the location researching coronavirus that received funding from Dr. Fauci."
Posted by: Lozion | Apr 22 2020 2:07 utc | 72
David F @ 20, 51:
You are claiming that Karlof1 is a friend of Pepe Escobar's because Karlof1 happened to mention that he had a "chat" with Escobar.
On what basis should we believe your claim and find it credible? A person can have "chats" with many people online - including people at the MoA bar. Are they all going to be "friends"? Why should we not apply the same standard of proof to your assertion about Karlof1 and Pepe Escobar that you apply to Karlof1 and William Gruff?
BTW The Times of Israel article reads as though its information came from a separate source (TV Channel 12 in Israel) and not from ABC News. The information that the Israeli govt received might have been the same information in the report that ABC News refers to but that information seems to have followed a separate path to reach the ToI.
Posted by: Jen | Apr 22 2020 2:19 utc | 73
"What I find distinctively fishy is the behavior of Trump and the West during January and February--I see it as a form of the dog that didn't bark. The Chinese seem to share my suspicion." karlof1@50
The Chinese cannot get their heads around the sheer elemental evil of capitalism. They just cannot, despite all that history has shown them, understand an Empire which is totally unconcerned about the health and welfare of its own people.
Thus they find it suspicious that Trump, for example and Johnson, were blithely awaiting the arrival of the virus, unworried by the likelihood that it would decimate the medical staff, lead to large scale massacres in 'Care' homes and seniors complexes and cut a swathe through the general population. They weren't pretending not to care. They really didn't give a flying fuck. They are surrounded by kitchen cabinets, themselves reflective of the overwhelming biass of the neo-liberal Academy, chortling about old folk dying, pensions not being collected and long term healthcare cost savings.
It wasn't until the people chimed in, with views that any Chinese person could readily understand, which is to say views consistent with basic humanity, that the Trumps and Johnsons felt guilty and pretended to be converts to the need to emulate China's preventative measures. And halfheartedly introduced the policies that their supporters, subsidised by corporations, are now demanding should be ended. In the name of Freedom.
We have lived so long under the mental shadow of anti-communism that we have, as a society, forgotten that not even the most extravagant and exaggerated charges against Stalin or Mao, Pol Pot or Dimitrov have included claims of evil of the order of any year of life under imperialism from 1494.
Posted by: bevin | Apr 22 2020 2:23 utc | 74
Considering all the 'iffy' components of the disinfo matrix from which this rumor could possibly have sprouted, I wouldn't be surprised if Kim asked NK's intel agencies (who are probly 10x smarter than the West's lacklustre spooks) to plant this story.
Back on October 17, 2019, MoA fielded a Kim on Horseback story about an ill-defined future announcement about something super duper from NK was pending. So, since today is the future, I'm guessing that Kim is ready to make his announcement and wanted to make sure that the Media would be paying attention.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 22 2020 2:25 utc | 75
David F re Pompeo statement
The context of Pompeo’s March 20th comment can be seen at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvP-DChnQsU
What caught my attention was Trump’s off-mike comment in response to Pompeo’s, “This is not about retribution. This is a live exercise.”
It sounded to me like Trump said in response, “Would have been nice if someone told me about it” or something equivalent..
Pompeo's agenda was obfuscation. The reporter’s question was, “When did the CDC let other agencies know that something was happening in China with the virus… and then when did the whole government approach start to happen?”
Pompeo, pretending to take the high road, scapegoats the Chinese government and repeatedly claims to not be doing what he is doing. I usually listen to what such people deny they are doing, or what they are projecting onto others, for insight into what they are thinking and doing. Usually sheds light on issues.
Posted by: suzan | Apr 22 2020 2:26 utc | 76
Richard Steven Hack | Apr 22 2020 0:59 utc | 59
Didn't notice your comment earlier.
I am not harmed by the article from abc news, or the Israeli one, I didn't mean to imply that I was. I wasn't even taking a stance about whether the government did or did not know, which I stated from the get go.
What got me riled up was the hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty from both of them. Said article does not offer anything but rumor, the Israeli article simply refers to the original one, and yes I am quite aware that is how things become a narrative.
So why would supposedly critical thinkers here help to build that up? Why not just answer my direct and very simple questions in the beginning?
I felt that posters here should not be using bullshit, anonymous articles to support their argument, when it is regularly condemned here as a bullshit tactic when others do it. You don't defeat your opponents by stooping to their level.
Karloff did answer, for Pepe, in what I thought was a very dishonest and unseemly way, and as such where my trust in Pepe's credibility had been eroding as of late, because of things he has written, it is now completely gone.
Mr. Gruff instead deflected from the get go, and then eloquently and snarkily began painting me as a loon, questioning my motivations, my intelligence and my demeanor. Generally speaking this is not the behavior of one who can defend what one has written, but is instead one who cannot defend what they have said.
Frankly, if he had just answered me from the get go, the conversation would not have gone anywhere near where it did.
I will back up what I write, and defend it, and if it turns out I am wrong I will admit it. I had expected others here to do the same.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 2:33 utc | 77
snake #47
How can the masses governed by mafia within nation state boundaries use the opportunity afforded by the CoVid 19 pandemic to unify and to enable a global, unified self determination? Why has the right of self determination and Covid 19 pandemic not become the co-narrative?
EXACTLY that snake and many thanks for pointing out that it will serve us better to keep our eye on the prize and smash the mafia. Every element of the mafia. Every goon acting for the mafia including Les Wexner, Ghislane Maxwell, Bill Gates, Donald Trump plus the entire class of '86 that Pompous leads.
Then of course there is the Awan family and Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Hillary and Black Cube and and and.., Lets not get distracted I say. We know the enemy.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 22 2020 2:34 utc | 78
Jen | Apr 22 2020 2:19 utc | 73
This is the second time that Karloff has mentioned he has spoken with Pepe, I imagine most people cant just call him up. This is the second time that he has spoken on Pepe's behalf in a conversation with me. I had stated in my response to him, "I didn't realize you were friends" and he didn't correct me. Sounded to me like they were friends.
The link I followed from Pepe's article to the Israeli piece repeatedly referred to the abcnews article.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 2:38 utc | 79
@ 79 david f... i think karlof1 is talking to pepe via vk or fb - facebook... it is much the same as here.. i would use the term 'friends' very loosely if i was going to use it to anyone who speaks to someone thru the internet only, if at all... maybe someone said something but it didn't mean as much as someone else understood it.. just trying to find some peace here... cheers..
Posted by: james | Apr 22 2020 2:43 utc | 80
David F @70
I fully understand what propaganda is.
If you did, you wouldn't be engaging with this issue in the way you are.
Someone/some group put this report out. It didn't just appear out of thin air.
If we simply dismiss this fact and ignore the implications then we allowing this person/group to push their narrative without challenge. Is that what you want?
=
Thanks.
And now you're getting defensive. Your accusations against karlof1 and Gruff initiated a defensive response from them. You were right that they weren't providing direct answers but wrong to immediately see their answers as bullshit. They understand the nature of this 'report' better than you do.
And I say that as someone that has disagreed with both several times over the last two years. And my disagreements with them have been much more substantive than the misunderstanding and talk-past each other that we've seen in this thread.
As I wrote before: some will believe the ABCNews 'report', others will recognize it as a propaganda narrative and deal with it as such. A very few (like you) will ask: why aren't we just dismissing/ignoring this?
Your Iraq WMD example is a case in point. MANY PEOPLE said that it made no sense. They called "bullshit!" It didn't matter. TPTB have the ability to push their bullshit narratives past simple objections and commonsense.
=
I have yet to see a person who has chimed in on this, answer any of the questions I have posed ...
1) No one can give you what you want. There is no way to definitively debunk the narrative of the ABCNews 'report'. It is based on nonpublic information. Peter AU1 and cirsium are bringing info to our attention that questions the narrative but that is not a debunking.
That's how these propaganda narratives work. Like the Iraq WMD. Is there anyone that could say with 100% certainty that Iraq didn't have WMD? Yeah, the one's that deliberately made up that accusation - but they weren't talking!
2) People don't want to engage with someone that appears to be disruptive. It's a waste of time.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 22 2020 2:43 utc | 81
The pandemic is generating new perspectives on the role of government in our lives. The "intelligence" agencies have been caught swimming naked, bereft of any social utility at all, not to mention intelligence. Defund the bastards! The military demonstrates its essential uselessness. Cut the military budget severely. Get rid of air craft carriers. Get rid of all weapons of mass destruction. It is highly likely the military created this virus. It serves the people by killing them. Those in control of this society have failed in their positions of authority. You're fired, Trump, commander in chief. You're fired DoD, CIA, NSA,deep state, shallow state, etc etc. Until all the black budgets are transparent and we know what the hell our government in all its shadowy complexity and outrageous secrecy is actually doing, we cannot trust anything we are told. News is managed and should properly be called propaganda. At the moment those is high places are using all their creative energy to choreograph the most elaborate CYA dance routines one can imagine. Quite a spectacle. If you have integrity, intelligence, and common sense, you can, like b, make yourself very useful to others in this fog of propaganda and unadulterated bullshit.
Posted by: jadan | Apr 22 2020 2:44 utc | 82
suzan | Apr 22 2020 2:26 utc | 76
All I could find when I searched for pompeo and the quote were articles talking about the quote. In one of those articles was mentioned 'his speech at the white house', or something very close to that. When I searched for a transcript of that I couldnt find anything. All I have seen is a 30 second clip on youtube, which was basically about two sentences. That is all I know about what he said. I would be interested to see the whole thing so as to be able to decide for myself if it was as nefarious as some want it to sound, or if it is just a slip of the tongue or just a poor choice of words.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 2:44 utc | 83
james | Apr 22 2020 2:43 utc | 80
Maybe they are not friends, I don't know. He seemed to me to have more than just a comment board relationship, perhaps I misunderstood.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 2:46 utc | 84
David F
Re Escobar. Very good in what I consider his field which I think is an overview of China and Belt and Road ect. China overall he has proved very accurate, has been wrong on other things that I consider peripheral or out of his field. He is a traveling journalist with many contacts that writes what he believes rather than an agenda or talking points dictated to him. Very few of that style journalist these days.
Most authors I read are similar in being very good in their professional field or field of expertise but not so good in other areas.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 22 2020 2:50 utc | 85
Jackrabbit #60
5) The ABCNews Report's being verified by Israel is important because it shows that this narrative is no mistake. It's going to be pushed further. I'd guess it will form the basis for the lawsuits against China seeking compensation for virus-related damages.
<> <> <> <> <> <>David F doesn't understand the import of the ABCNews report but he's asking the right questions.
Lets go back a few years regarding 'asking the right questions':
How long have global collaborations been taking place re SARS and Covid?
Where and at what labs and what papers?
When will Israel sign up to the global CBW treaty?
How many Israeli scientists participated in SARS coronavirus research teams?
How much virus is stored in Ness Ziona and any SARS/corona perchance?
Do you remember Stuxnet and the premature release of that computer virus from USA to Israel to a viral attack on Iran?
I propose a crime against humanity has been in progress for a number of years by many nations and that is the crime that we the people should be prosecuting no matter who participated. Do watch the two videos in the linked article.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 22 2020 2:50 utc | 86
suzan @76
In response to Pompeos "It's not about retribution" comment, Trump said: "They should'a let us know."
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 22 2020 2:52 utc | 87
uncle tungsten @86: I propose a crime against humanity has been in progress
I'd go further: a pattern of crimes against humanity.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 22 2020 2:56 utc | 88
Jackrabbit | Apr 22 2020 2:43 utc | 81
Look man, don't tell me what I do and do not understand. No one can answer those questions? Seriously?
"Seriously, since when is anything from MSM taken to be of any value? Are they valuable when they confirm our own biases, and full of shit when they don't?"
"The WHO was making public announcements as early as jan 4th, so why is it odd that the us news picked up on this in early january?"
Are those the types of questions that are unanswerable? Those were direct and simple questions, easily answered. I can't believe you would suggest otherwise.
"No one can give you what you want. There is no way to definitively debunk the narrative of the ABCNews 'report'."
Not once did I ask anyone to debunk the article! I asked why it was proof to them! Very simple question.
You are clearly not reading what I wrote. If you are going to respond to me at least read what I actually wrote.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 2:57 utc | 89
interesting word - pilpul.. i hadn't heard of that before..
Posted by: james | Apr 22 2020 2:58 utc | 90
BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!
Distinguished Anglo-American and Spanish-language media are reporting that Nicaraguan dictator, Daniel Chavez Castro Maduro Ortega, may have died from the COVID-19 pandemic, as he has not been seen in public for days!!!!
Oh wait, sorry.
Corporate media spreads fake news claiming Nicaraguan President Ortega is dead – then he gives a fiery speech condemning US militarism
https://thegrayzone.com/2020/04/19/media-fake-news-nicaragua-ortega-dead-speech/
Back to your regularly scheduled COVID-19 pandemic psyops programming....
#Mainstream Media Faceplants
Posted by: ak74 | Apr 22 2020 3:00 utc | 91
mena | Apr 22 2020 2:56 utc | 89
Thanks for that, had to look it up, gonna be tough to work that one into a sentence.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 3:00 utc | 92
Regarding Pepe Escobar's article in Strategic Culture
ABCNews Report:
George Stephanopoulos: “Did the Pentagon receive an intelligence assessment on COVID in China last November from the National Center for Medical Intelligence?”
Defense Sec. Mark Esper: “I can’t recall, George..."
Clarifying statement from Col. R. Shane Day, Director of the NCMI to ABCNews on Wednesday evening:
"As a matter of practice the National Center for Medical Intelligence does not comment publicly on specific intelligence matters. However, in the interest of transparency during this current public health crisis, we can confirm that media reporting about the existence/release of a National Center for Medical Intelligence Coronavirus-related product/assessment in November of 2019 is not correct. No such NCMI product exists"
In his Strategic Culture article, Pepe Escobar asks if the November NCMI report warning of a new out-of-control disease in China's Wuhan province actually exists despite it now being publicly denied by the CIA/Pentagon/NCMI), how would the CIA have known about a viral pandemic more than a month before China identified the first known case "of a new type of pneumonia". That's Escobar's smoking gun that implicates the CIA/Pentagon had foreknowledge of a pandemic outbreak. He leaves the reader with the suggestion that the CIA/Pentagon were not only aware of a viral pandemic outbreak in Wuhan province, but must have planned the whole operation from the outset.
At this point I consider Escobar's story a conspiracy theory which may or may not be true. And if any NCMI report ever existed that contained any information that corroborated any aspect of Escobar's story, all copies have long been shredded.
As for the ABCNews story, it's obviously fodder for the blame China narrative.
Posted by: krypton | Apr 22 2020 3:01 utc | 93
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 2:33 utc | 77 I will back up what I write, and defend it, and if it turns out I am wrong I will admit it. I had expected others here to do the same.
Agree with pretty much everything you said. I didn't mean to imply that you thought you were harmed by this. I just meant that there's not much point getting excited about it, absent anything real that can be said about it.
It *is* likely that the ABC story, the Israeli "support" (which as you point out is actually non-existent except for the fact that they also posted it), and even Pepe Escobar are all part of some BS intelligence operation (or as I suggested, someone's incompetence at reading comprehension.) Until there's some sort of evidence, however, that other people either believe the report or are trying to figure out what the intentions or consequences might be is basically unimportant to those of us who have better things to do than go down rabbit holes.
I get caught up in this sort of thing myself *far* too often. I'm trying to learn that it's waste of my time.
The famous quote: “Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.” ― Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
================================
Posted by: Lozion | Apr 22 2020 2:07 utc | 72 "FRN has confirmed reports that hackers have successfully hacked accounts belonging to Bill Gates, the WHO, and a lab in Wuhan believed to be the location researching coronavirus that received funding from Dr. Fauci."
Based on my knowledge of infosec, I can *almost* guarantee you that story *is* utter BS, and/or another sort of intelligence operation. The only reason I can't *absolutely* guarantee that is, well, many things are *possible.* If it doesn't come from Wikileaks, I'm not buying it. Of course, some intelligence agency such as the pros in Russia might have pulled that off, but I seriously doubt it.
Reading the article, I see this idiotic statement: "people are logging in via SSH". Right there, that tells me the person who wrote this has zero clue. They also talk about "leaked bank transfers" - ah, no...
Then apparently Vice and Motherboard are saying the data dump - if it exists - appears to be password and user IDs from *previous* hacks.
Which means this is - again, *almost* certainly - some sort of prank by a set of unknown hackers. Speaking of which "USA Hackers" is unknown based on a Google search. Which is a third strike against this being even remotely likely.
Again, if it doesn't come from Wikileaks or someone I consider credible in the infosec journalism space - such as Brian Krebs - I call *very* unlikely.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 22 2020 3:09 utc | 95
David F @90: Look man ...
karlof1 explained that he and Pepe weren't taking the ABCNews report as fact but using it as a strawman.
Wm Gruff explained that his perspective was informed by Operation Mockingbird.
And now you are attacking the guy who sought to mediate.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 22 2020 3:15 utc | 96
Richard Steven Hack | Apr 22 2020 3:09 utc | 96
"I just meant that there's not much point getting excited about it, ..."
You are correct, I did not mean for it to go as far as it did, I got kinda pissed off and let that run away with me.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 3:18 utc | 97
Jackrabbit | Apr 22 2020 3:15 utc | 97
No, I am getting irritated by you though. Because you don't seem to have followed the conversation from the beginning, you are presuming to tell me what you think I do or don't understand, and you attributed to me things I didn't say, while not addressing the things I did say.
Perhaps it would be best for you to just let it go.
Posted by: David F | Apr 22 2020 3:22 utc | 98
re Miss Lacy | Apr 21 2020 17:31 utc | 3
Does anyone else remember an AMC TV show from 2010 called Rubicon. It only ran for one season which was kinda wierd I guess since many critics rated it as one of the best shows that year.
The story was about analysts working in an allegedly private bureau who access to amerikan raw intelligence & had to make a coherent whole outta that mess.
Analysts began getting heavied by people who appeared to be on the same side & it transpired that this 'agency', 100% funded by amerikan taxpayer, was set up by a group of ivy-leaguers who belonged to a school secret society not unlike skull & bones who had been making themselves billionaires by using the intelligence analysis to manipulate & inside trade on stock market.
The show was well done - it shit all over homelander, 24 plus the rest of the dross around at the time, yet it was barely publicised so consequent ordinary ratings were used as motive for shutting it down.
According to Vulture the show became pretty much unavailable after cancellation, no dvd box set only streamed once for a limited time altho apparently it can be streamed from AMC premiere from late 2019. I dunno if it is still there but who is gonna pay so much only types who are in on the game lol.
Naturally there is no evidence this is the case, but in a world where D Rumsfeld as amerikan defense secretary destroys the public health systems of most of the developing world for a few billion more than he already has, with his tamiflu scamdoes anyone believe the arseholes in charge of amerikan intelligence wouldn't use top secret info to their own selfish advantage?
It is a good show worth watching under lockdown than a thousand b grade celebrities clapping for first responders n tryin' to bask in the reflected glory but, Nah don't give em yer dosh, I found a link to a 1080p version torrent which is hi def consequently big more than two gigs an episode, the torrent is here.
I know I should have a more compact version of it on an old external hard drive somewhere, if anyone wants 'n asks discreetly I'll hunt it out if I can, although if you have a vdsl or better connection, the 1080 is worth the torrenting effort...
ps towards the end of his career a certain famous Irish playwrite would finish any missive with a bunch of punctuation marks eg ..
Posted by: A User | Apr 22 2020 3:26 utc | 99
@95 jackrabbit.. i got this via the usa propaganda site! - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilpul who am i gonna believe? lol...
Posted by: james | Apr 22 2020 3:27 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
This is what happens when news outlets put unpaid interns in charge of combing the Internet for stories to report...
Posted by: ralphieboy | Apr 21 2020 17:07 utc | 1