Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 12, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-29

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

“No matter how long I live, I don’t think I will ever get over how the U.S., with all its wealth and technological capability and academic prowess, sleepwalked into the disaster that is unfolding,” says Kai Kupferschmidt, a German science writer.

I have been preaching to wear masks for reason.

Nassim Nicholas Taleb @nntaleb - 11:22 UTC · 12 Apr 2020

One comment about masks and nonlinearities that these imbeciles are not getting.
Reducing exposure to viruses by 30% thanks to an "imperfect" mask does not mean reducing risk of contracting the disease by just 30%. By convexity, it must be more than 30%, can even be 95%.

Other issues:

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on April 12, 2020 at 15:46 UTC | Permalink

« previous page | next page »

sleepy @200

Just wondering here which you consider more useful: Scraps of paper or manufactured goods? Your post suggest that little scraps of paper are what is really important.

What is it that China needs the US for? What do they get from America? I mean, other than "novel" viruses and lots of flack about stuff that exists only in American TV viewers' imaginations?

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 13 2020 16:15 utc | 201

Walter | Apr 13 2020 15:05 utc | 185

Your post are a treat! Between you and Gruff, I am getting some much needed chuckles this morning.


Circe | Apr 13 2020 15:06 utc | 186

Well stated my friend.


Phryne's frock | Apr 13 2020 15:37 utc | 189

Enjoy your posts and agree with most of what you say. The link goes to accuracy (dot) org, but gives a 404 error. If you search for "A Critical-Care Bailout for Main Street" you will find the article.

Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 16:16 utc | 202

Previous posts have noted that there is a lack of comprehensive data regarding hospitalization rates, which seemingly should be front and center along with hospital census figures (especially for those hospitals in cities like NYC). Has anyone here found those stats? I have worked in hospitals for years and we were always aware of the daily census, it was often posted. Is that now top secret information? Why?

This is of crucial importance in evaluating where we stand in this pandemic. The most threatening aspect of the virus was its supposed ability to overwhelm the healthcare system. With the exponential growth rate of the COVID-19 infection, seen in the 3-4 day doubling time for the number of infected persons, it was forecast that US hospitals would run out of bed space sometime in the 3-4 week of May. For example see the SCRIER website.

SCRIER predicted that US hospitals would be filled to capacity by May 21. Based on the perceived rates of infection it made these predictions:

Definitely: 500,000 Known U.S. inf : Thur Apr 9 moved up 1 day
Probably: 5M Known U.S. inf: around Mon May 4 unchanged
Possibly: 50M Known U.S. inf: around Sun May 31 moved back 1 day
Perhaps: 200M Known U.S. inf: very roughly Mon Jul 5th, depends, moved back 6 days

Final predictions as of Oct 1, 2020:

954,903: Peak # of Deaths in one day, which happens Jun 29.
22,526,410: Total avoidable deaths from severely ills denied Hosp.BEDS
10,118,307: Total avoidable deaths from critically ills denied H.VENTS
493,620: Total deaths of those given proper hospital treatment:

OK, this is obviously the EXTREME case, but you get the picture.

The main point is that once (if/when) hospitals are completely filled to capacity with COVID-19 patients, then most people (including those with other serious injuries or illnesses) will be turned away. This would greatly increase the case fatality rates as well as mortality rates.

So my question is, where are we now in terms of percentages of COVID-19 patients needing hospitalization, and how full are the hospitals in NYC? Shouldn't this crucial information be constantly updated and be the basis of how long the quarantines should continue? In other words, are the initial projections holding up, are we still headed towards a situation at the end of May/early June where the healthcare system is overwhelmed?

Obviously the same question holds true in Europe and in every nation, especially those with rudimentary healthcare systems attempting to serve densely populated urban areas.

The true rate of unemployment in the US has been running close to 20% for some time, see the Shadowstats website. The stay-at-home orders are in the process of destroying small business and will drive the unemployment rates here up by another 30% . . . so we could soon be looking at something like 50% unemployment rates in the US. The longer the lockdowns continue, the worse it will get.

Wouldn't it make sense to look at whether or not the hospitalization rates are holding close to the projections? If they show that it is unlikely the healthcare system is going to be overwhelmed, wouldn't that indicate that there could be at least a relaxation of the quarantine? Or is there another agenda at work here?

Here in the clusterf*ck nation/national security state, it seems impossible to get any sort of rational/truthful answer to this question. The US still can't manage to provide masks for its frontline healthcare workers! The Fed is handing out trillions to the banksters and friends, but is there any money in there for the single most important item -- MASKS -- still lacking among the general populace and healthcare workers?

Posted by: Perimetr | Apr 13 2020 16:17 utc | 203

dan of steele 198 when I click my own link I get 404 not found but when I try to click the link you so kindly supplied it won't even click to anything. hopefully others are not having the same trouble I am! if people only knew they're being given a TINA "there is no alternative" when that's NOT true! I really think the article would be so helpful if it went viral - it isn't just the usa that the thinking applies to! if the wealthpower giants and their legal thieving dystem survive this crisis the human species has reached the zenith of no-think!

Posted by: Phryne's frock | Apr 13 2020 16:21 utc | 204

Circe, you are a really pathetic person.
my kids need a break as bad as mom and dad does.
did the sheepdog break you?
woof woof, keep chasing that bone.

Posted by: lizard | Apr 13 2020 16:22 utc | 205

thank you David F 202 as well!

Posted by: Phryne's frock | Apr 13 2020 16:22 utc | 206

"The US wouldnt last two weeks if china stopped exporting things to us."

Chima wouldn't last three weeks if its manufacturing base and export market to the US disappeared.

Posted by: sleepy | Apr 13 2020 16:07 utc | 200

Dream on, we represent a small fraction of chinese total exports, 18%, they could definitely live without us.

Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 16:24 utc | 207

This is interesting: Coming shortage in natural gas?
Harris Kupperman references another fund manager's analysis that notes that one reason natural gas prices are so low is because the shale oil frackers produce natural gas "for free" - to the tune of 40% of natural gas produced coming from shale oil fracking wells. This puts the epic fails on some of the "pure play" natural gas producers in a different light. Not necessarily positive but as in makes more sense why veterans like McClendon got the trend so terribly, terribly wrong.

In particular, the thesis is that at $50/barrel, the profitability (or more correctly, unprofitability) of fracked oil is close enough that clever accounting can cover it up - but at $25, there's no amount of lipstick that can reimage this pig. This is what is changed about fracking today vs. 2014-2016.

The analysis then is that the massive shale oil fracking downturn, combined with "pure play" natural gas producer drilling downturn, will result in a potential shortfall of 5-20 BCF (billion cubic feet) by the end of 2020. Kuppy doesn't say per day, but I am assuming that's what he means since US natural gas consumption is 85 BCF per day.

If this is true, hope for a warm winter otherwise we'll see $200 natural gas prices as was seen during the polar vortex in 2014.
To put this in perspective: the Texas Eastern pipeline carries 2.4 BCF/day to the Northeast. New York's daily natural gas consumption averages 3.7 BCF = 1,350 BCF in 2014 & 2018 but was 3.49 BCF in 2016.

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 13 2020 16:27 utc | 208

@Phryne's frock #189
Perhaps you can perform an economic analysis to show the difference between preventing nCOV deaths via no restrictions vs. the economic losses imposed by a lockdown.
How much do you value each dead person that otherwise wouldn't have died?

Don't get me wrong - I think lockdowns aren't the best way to go, but I still understand the fundamental societal restrictions limiting what federal and state governments can do.

However, that's not the argument you're making - you're saying the economic price isn't worth the health benefit.

I'd like to see you outline this in some detail rather than screaming out a simple proposition.

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 13 2020 16:33 utc | 209

you know what, David F? it's actually true that the by far vast majority of people agree with what I'm saying. Nobody really agrees with giving 1% of humans overpay by underpaying 99%. Nobody really agrees with extreme injustice, with giga-extreme maldistribution of wealth, with making some work for no pay while others get pay for no work. Nobody is in agreement with having tyranny-slavery, with the idea that the usamerican dream of freedom is the dream to be able to grow limitlessly rich at the expense of your neighbor.

The whole damn trouble in a nutshell: We humans are not ACTING in accord with what everyone actually believes! But how do people stay inert with all the present motivation to once and for all time put an end to no-limits to personal fortunes is what I want to figure out!

Posted by: Phryne's frock | Apr 13 2020 16:34 utc | 210

sheesh, sorry about that

let me try again, the preview was good but I didn't click on the link,

Phryne's frock link to

Posted by: dan of steele | Apr 13 2020 16:36 utc | 211

c1ue, intentionally or not you have just missed what I am saying by a thousand million miles. read the article. or don't. but please apologize for claiming I am in any way saying what you so obtusely assert.

Posted by: Phryne's frock | Apr 13 2020 16:38 utc | 212

@sleepy #200 @David F #197
Both of you are wrong.
China supplies 18% of all US imports and is the largest single source, but US exports are only 3rd in China's export list.
A magic wand evaporating all China exports to the US would hurt both countries but wouldn't destroy either.
If you're interested, data is here

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 13 2020 16:39 utc | 213

Jeez, people. Let’s raise the bar a bit and keep it civil. cadence calls 125.

Have a drink on me cadence at the bar. Cheers. We can go out into the deserted street, sandals on the hot pavement, our voices will echo between the buildings while we keep 3 meters apart, as pigeons coo and crows croak, with far off sirens from an ambulance a counter point, not a taxi, glad girl or other figure in sight.

The world ‘globo’ system was very fragile. “W” Gvmts became complacent and tolerant of rapaciousness (neo-liberalism, globalisation, media manipulation, etc. USA, UK, F, NL, etc.) and weak, infiltrated, lobbyied, in the sense of pandering to immediate - diverse groups, sectors - concerns, doing dodgy management, lotsa fakey nos., principles, etc.

Result: World Finance, Energy, Other, had grave problems - a sort of 2008 bis was on the cards.

Along comes a novel virus (unknown and kills some speedily and spreads alarmingly..) and the reactions just go all over the place.

Some see it as a boon, aka an affordable insult (let it rip) either through assumed strength, proud self-reliance and assumed isolation, or cynical uncaring culling scenes; others perceive the need to protect (lock-down, UBI, feed ppl..) as the economic tsunami, which will be deathly, and the concurrent possible pitchforks should be avoided at any cost.

Many attempt to steer a middle course, construct a compromise that might be favorable, heh needed PR, ‘proper actions’, but possibly idiotic in its real world effects.

In short, the world has gone nuts. Not flash news. The present state of affairs (2017-20 say) could not last.

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 13 2020 16:43 utc | 214

dan of steele yay! perseverance wins again! thanks!

Posted by: Phryne's frock | Apr 13 2020 16:44 utc | 215

@Phryne's frock #212
You had posted:

Please everyone just stop buying into this MANUFACTURED ECONOMIC FALSITY that we have to choose between preventing scads of unnecessary deaths and economic prosperity.

This seems pretty clear to me, but upon review - the link you post has nothing to do with economic falsity. So even that is wrong.

Ellen Brown is simply saying that bailouts should go to the people hurt - there is no mention of manufactured economic falsity or choices between deaths and economic prosperity. Nor would the measures Ellen notes create economic prosperity - they would only reduce the damage.

That's what I get for actually reading what you wrote, which is almost completely unrelated to Brown's proposal.

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 13 2020 16:49 utc | 216

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 13 2020 16:15 utc | 201

"Just wondering here which you consider more useful: Scraps of paper or manufactured goods? Your post suggest that little scraps of paper are what is really important."

What I consider important is irrelevant. It appears important to China Are you saying the Chinese export manufactured goods to the US in exchange for something they consider worthless?

Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 16:24 utc | 207

"Dream on, we represent a small fraction of chinese total exports, 18%, they could definitely live without us."

Let China lose 18% of its manufacturing base and see what how long Xi lasts.

Posted by: sleepy | Apr 13 2020 16:50 utc | 217

@ Posted by: Really?? | Apr 13 2020 0:58 utc | 82

So, you're comparing cancer with a disease that probably has a 1% mortality rate?

Posted by: vk | Apr 13 2020 1:52 utc | 93
Uh, no. here is the actual exchange, including Vk's:

"At the dosages required, hydroxycloroquine is basically chemotherapy.
So? A lot of people choose chemotherapy. A lot of doctors seem to know how to wield this powerful tool. Sounds like maybe the same goes for HC. Are you a physician?

Posted by: Really?? | Apr 13 2020 0:58 utc | 83
This is so tiresome, VK. Anyone can see that I didn't say what you accuse me of saying. Your comments shows that either you didn't read the orig. comment, you didn't understand the comment, or you are intentionally distorting it. I expect it is the latter. You are trying to steer this discussion of the use of HC in a particular directoin. My question stands: Are you a physician? BTW, the 1% rate as an argument against possible life-saving use of HC is surely of little interest to the person possibly dying of CV instead of cancer. Your question re "comparison" of two potentially deadly conditions does not reflect very well on you!

Honestly, one can't turn one's back for a moment here!

Posted by: Really?? | Apr 13 2020 16:52 utc | 218

dh 99:

Well, that was exactly my point, which apparently you missed.

Boy, people are so pugnacious and eager to pick arguments these days!

Posted by: Really?? | Apr 13 2020 16:56 utc | 219

@Perimetr #203
Unlike other models - like climate change - nCOV predictions are being tuned to actual real world results.
Among other reasons, the real world has a range of policies and outcome choices. Modeling nCOV with no lockdowns or restrictions is naturally going to result in a different outcome than 95% US citizen lockdown.
Secondly, data is still not firm on what nCOV actually does. People are still arguing over what the "real" nCOV mortality is.
The good news is that the model results we are seeing are being changed to reflect changed conditions - to assume that what we have now is fixed or accurate isn't right either.
nCOV is still going to be a threat until a provably useful vaccine appears.
The sad reality is that even if we end the lockdowns in May, we'll likely either go to the full bore civil liberty infringement (unlikely in the US) or have more lockdowns late this year or early next.

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 13 2020 16:58 utc | 220

re Posted by: james | Apr 13 2020 2:08 utc | 95
I wouldn't worry about poor little teddy boy's weak-arsed attempt to bustle about here too much. I reckon that judging by his posts the majority of which are negative towards the personas of other commenters, which is a sure sign of a type who resides under a bridge.
Poor wee teddy is all locked down in some particularly slimy part of oz & can no longer try his small-dicked bullying act on actual humans, so has to foist it on a blog he has discovered which prefers to let people speak their minds without censorship. We all know that not feeding such types is the best response & I say that acknowledging I have indulged the slug too much meself.

Posted by: A User | Apr 13 2020 2:29 utc | 100

A mature, thoughtful response from A User.
Thank heaven there are still some adults in this chat room!

Posted by: Really?? | Apr 13 2020 16:58 utc | 221

to those that addressed me directly - thanks for your comments.. i'm idealistic and naive and enjoy reading others viewpoints.. i find it more challenging when comments are charged and accusatory... donkey - for a laugh - the joke in vancouver is the shortest distance from china to india is over the bridge that connects richmond to surrey...

@ 105 jen... the way i read teds comment was it was a potshot at moa and the idea that moa is some conformist place where lockdown is a okay and the police state is welcomed.. i personally don't see that, so maybe i got ted ideas wrong off the top.. i've read the swiss propaganda research overview and i had read the off-g article that b linked to in this thread and which had been shared and commented on in a previous thread by allen and BM.. like i said in my comment @20, the off-g article came across to me as soft fear mongering ( police state, lockdown, taking away our rights and etc etc.. that kind of thing).. i don't live in the UK where the publication seems most focused on.. maybe things in the UK are more extreme.. i can't make heads or tails of their political system, but generally view the UKs approach on the world stage as completely f@ked in the head whether it be the treatment of assange, skripal, corbyn and everything else they have messed up since blair and probably a few centuries before that... so, maybe off-g has a point with regard to how the UK and by extension the world is responding to covid here, although the article never did go into detail how they would do things different! just a shot at alt media in the form of a question - "Why are some respected alt-media embracing a police state?" when i like to prod, i will take a similar approach - put it in the form of a question...

i went and looked at the blogmire site and read the latest article 'a comparison of lockdown' but felt it would've been more interesting to make the comparison between another scandanavian country, as opposed to the uk... in fact swedens mortality numbers are much higher when compared with norway, finland or denmark.. but as BM and others are quick to note - the devil is in the details.. i thought the comparison between sweden and uk wasn't as useful as it could've been...

but i want to come back to how others view the handling of covid here.. here on the westcoast of canada and in canada generally, it seems to me the responsibility for our health has been put in the health ministers position and they are coordinating their position based on WHO and maybe some other institutions i am unaware of.. i am hopeful this ends soon, but in the meantime i am not experiencing any great hardship.. my work has completely stopped, but the canuck gov't has issued me 2 grand which may be coming again for the next few months.. i would prefer to be working and doing what i do which involves interacting with others.. we have very few cases on vancouver island.. not many are wearing masks.. people are being respectful and keeping the social distancing concept alive.. i am not sure how long it can go on for though..

this is hurting the lower level income people and of course the street people who are without income and relying on gov't help... is this a grand plan of the 1%? i doubt it, but sure - they will always find a way to profit from it.. is this a bioweapon? it's a good question.. unfortunately war is a fact of life and any means to gain an upper hand is considered fair game by those who are okay with war.. the article that jackrabbit mentions from larry johnson ( ex fbi dude ) is really off the charts nuts as i see it, but i tend to view some of the commentary in the usa towards china in this context.. it must seem normal to some americans.. i liked some of the responses in to that article where a bit of sanity was able to seep thru ( coment from Godfree Roberts )....

so, i personally don't think moa is some conformist site where we have all been issued a notice to walk in a straight line and do as we are told with regard to covid 19.. i think a lot of questions remain.. i think we can get it wrong and the response to this could be wrong, but without more information it is hard to fully know the best way to move forward..

i think it is fine for off-g to voice an opinion in the form of a question, lol.... i think it is fine for others to voice there viewpoint on that too.. i don't see anyone shutting down the conversation here.. i think there is plenty of room for a diversity of viewpoints and is how i tend to view moa for the most part.. it doesn't seem like group think here to me... maybe i am not ''facing facts'' as donkey suggests, but i am not sure what those facts are that i am missing! i tend to view most viewpoints as subjective in nature. thanks for your comments and sorry for the delay in responding..

Posted by: james | Apr 13 2020 17:00 utc | 222

I sincerely hope for the betterment of all that the theory will be soon filly tested that China does not need the U.S. nor vice versa.

It stands to reason that the American people could simply make the decision to not buy Chinese or SE Asia products. Sorry Vietnam, etc., but nothing good has ever come out of this post-colonial setup, especially in your case. We really don't need the U.S. govt trade war here.

What we need is federal legislation that conspicuously lists country of origin in large, bold letters on the front of every product sold at big box stores and everywhere else.

But the elites have always told us that this would hurt their bottom line, as is the case with labeling GMO food.

It is really simple, people: label origin country, all ingredients, and also pesticide-influenced foods/products clearly on front side of product.

Boom. End of globalism. Reset of natural, economic spheres of influence.

It is starting to happen, has been happening, and this virus will further people's sense of responsibility for not violating their conscience with their purchases.

Win, win, win, win, win. No trade war/No shooting war.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Apr 13 2020 17:01 utc | 223

Nathan Tankus has a five part series up explaining the recent actions of the Fed.  Here is some information from part 2 (3/26)

Part 2’s centerpiece is one announcement and the rest are simply details.

3/23 The coronavirus pandemic is causing tremendous hardship across the United States and around the world. Our nation's first priority is to care for those afflicted and to limit the further spread of the virus. While great uncertainty remains, it has become clear that our economy will face severe disruptions

In less than two weeks the Federal Reserve moved from boilerplate regional natural disaster language to probably as disturbed and concerned as bureaucratic press releases can get. Another way to tell how seriously the Federal Reserve is taking a crisis is by how many new acronyms they’re announcing in any one statement and how much the old acronyms are expanding. By my count this statement introduces three new acronyms to this crisis and expands the two existing ones. That’s Fedspeak for running around with your hair on fire.

Now onto the “new” facilities. The first we’ll start with is another star of 2008, the Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility (TALF).

Coronavirus’s TALF in contrast applies to nearly any household and small business credit exposure you can imagine:

1) Auto loans and leases;

2) Student loans;

3) Credit card receivables (both consumer and corporate);

4) Equipment loans;

5) Floorplan loans;

6) Insurance premium finance loans;

7) Certain small business loans that are guaranteed by the Small Business Administration; or

8) Eligible servicing advance receivables.

This leaves us the final two facilities which are very similar: The Primary Market Corporate Credit Facility and the Secondary Market Corporate Credit Facility. 

These brand new facilities are really the defining Federal Reserve intervention of this crisis so far.  Other interventions have been either standard, fixes to longstanding technical problems or expansions of facilities we saw in 2008. 

These are completely new to the United States and are effectively multi-trillion dollar corporate bond purchases.

These very high caps reflect the fact that non-financial corporations have extraordinary credit needs at a time where sales and thus revenue has utterly collapsed.

I’d summarize this flurry of action this way- regulatorily they finalized easing measures that were announced in more general terms last week while expanding their legal engineering to create programs for broad-based corporate bond buying

While this intervention is sweeping and unprecedented in the United States, it will also not be enough. Corporations don’t need low cost debt, they need revenue to make payroll. 

Posted by: financial matters | Apr 13 2020 17:02 utc | 224

@ 214 noirette.. just seeing your response here now.. thanks and ditto!!

Posted by: james | Apr 13 2020 17:03 utc | 225

vk | Apr 13 2020 15:56 utc | 195 see "the death of Robin Hood"
(not to imply the slightest similarity, which there ain't)

sleepy | Apr 13 2020 16:07 utc | 200

Chine been there long long time. US not so much...

Trailer Trash | Apr 13 2020 15:40 utc | 190 The Good Captain and his officers may remind some, ahem, of Aleksei Alekseevich Brusilov (Russian: Алексе́й Алексе́евич Бруси́лов; 19 August [O.S. 31 August] 1853 – 17 March 1926)

On 30 May 1920, during the Polish Eastern offensive of the Polish-Soviet War Brusilov published in Pravda an appeal entitled “To All Former Officers, Wherever They Might Be”, encouraging them to forgive past grievances and to join the Red Army.[3] Brusilov considered it as a patriotic duty of all Russian officers to join hands with the Bolshevik government, which in his opinion was defending Russia against foreign invaders.

Posted by: Walter | Apr 13 2020 17:07 utc | 226

@ 223 Nemesiscalling.. if the usa is willing to close down walmart, then it might happen.. as it is, my impression is the ceo of walmart has a lot more clout then the average voting person in the usa... ultimately the imports from asia will continue to roll in here and the symbiotic relationship between usa-china will continue until china surpasses the usa in terms of leading the world into something i am not sure what.... i could be wrong..

Posted by: james | Apr 13 2020 17:07 utc | 227


You are citing a us government site, and we all know how trustworthy their numbers are. The trade deficit says otherwise.

I found a site with statistics as part of its name, there was a paywall after two page views, so I didnt go further or bookmark it. That is where I got the 18% number, and the us was somewhere around 10th or 12th on chinas list.

We cant even get masks for our doctors without the chinese, and anecdotally speaking the vast majority of manufactured items one buys these days says made in china on it.

Whatever the numbers may be, china can live without us, we cannot live without china. I dont care to further debate this issue, not an economist.

Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 17:08 utc | 228

Interview (vid) with Julian Assange's partner/wife.

Posted by: b | Apr 13 2020 17:13 utc | 229

Until we deal with the perpetrators of this germ warfare, no amount of emergency action medical or financial will have any effect !
Coronavirus is just one more weapon in a very well stocked armoury.
The present world kaos (reflected here and at off-Gardian )
will just be further exploited.
We need to focus on the people at the very top. Focus on the whole overall picture. That’s were the prooth is to be found.
Here’s a smoking gun !!

Posted by: Mark2 | Apr 13 2020 17:16 utc | 230

@227 James

No one of any sense would defend Wal-Mart if they knew what it had done to this country.

But you are right, they have a ton of clout.

But that is what us so brilliant about legislating labelling. It does not directly impact Wal-Mart, and so they would have no recourse to fight it. If they did, which they will, they will further expose themselves as enemies of the American people.

Think about how evil you would have to be to deny consumers the right to know what their product consists of and where it was made.

I am convinced that this is where all effort should be poured in left circles and in right ones. United, we have a common enemy in the transnational elites. Labelling products will give power to the little guy again and government intervention, which would never happen as you are correct about their power over our government, would be moot point.

In anyone here would argue this point they would clearly be revealing themselves as the enemy.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Apr 13 2020 17:18 utc | 231

Nemesiscalling | Apr 13 2020 17:01 utc | 223

Try to buy items that are made in the usa, I dare you. Note I said made, not assembled. That famous quintessential all american harley davidson motorcycle? Assembled in america.

American flags? Mostly made in china.

The simple fact is we dont make hardly anything. Check out the Made in America store, mostly fairly useless shit.

Look at The American List, all of 800 companies in america. That will support 300+ million people.

Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 17:23 utc | 232

There's a great deal of agreement between myself and Pepe Escobar in his column today, "Confucius is winning the Covid-19 war: Compare hundreds of millions of Asians' serene response to the coronavirus crisis with the West's fear, panic and hysteria," which dovetails very well with my comment about Nurturing versus Parasitic Nations.

The core of Pepe's and my thesis--and not just related to the current pandemic--is stated thusly:

"I offer, as a working hypothesis, that the Asia triad of Confucius, Buddha and Lao Tzu has been absolutely essential in shaping the perception and serene response of hundreds of millions of people across various Asian nations to Covid-19. Compare this with the prevalent fear, panic and hysteria mostly fed by the corporate media across the West.

"The Tao ('the way') as configured by Lao Tzu is about how to live in harmony with the world. Being confined necessarily leads to delving into yin instead of yang, slowing down and embarking on a great deal of reflection.

"Yes, it’s all about culture, but culture rooted in ancient philosophy, and practiced in everyday life. That’s how we can see wu wei – 'action of non-action' – applied to how to deal with a quarantine. 'Action of non-action' means action without intent. Rather than fighting against the vicissitudes of life, as in confronting a pandemic, we should allow things to take their natural course.

"That’s much easier when we know this teaching of the Tao: 'Health is the greatest possession. Contentment is the greatest treasure. Confidence is the greatest friend. Non-being is the greatest joy.'"

Pepe continues with further examples of Asian thought that are all excellent and then concludes with what I feel resides at the core of the West's very deep-seated cultural problems:

"Most of all, in an hour of extreme turbulence, it brings comfort to know that, 'the strength of a nation derives from the integrity of the home'....

"So what would be the ultimate insight a serene East can offer to the West in such hard times? It’s so simple, and it’s all in the Tao: 'From caring comes courage.'"

The willful destruction of community and atomization of the family are at the core of the West's cultural dysfunction which in turn feeds all the various dysfunctional behavioral personality disorders, of which Excessive Wealth Disorder is the most damaging having been recognized by the Greeks who had their own term for it that formed the foundation for hubris. If the West's culture was functional, there would be very few sociopaths as the Home Culture wouldn't provide a foundation for their growth.

The reaction of the West's "leaders" was highly instructive--they wanted to do nothing lest the economy become damaged with little of any concern shown for those who might perish. The reaction from Asia was equally instructive as it demonstrated their value for life over material goods, which of course informed my Parasitic and Nurturing Nations concepts. What the COVID-19 episode in human history has demonstrated is the utter lack of morality within the West--a total disregard for the wellbeing of people, particularly those most at risk--while the opposite's been demonstrated by Russians, Asians, and a few European cultures--the Hegemonic seeking nations providing the worst (or best depending on your POV) examples.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 13 2020 17:26 utc | 233

I wonder if B will due a write-up on potential supply side disruptions (rather than the current demand side induced panic buying) as a result of the virus. When you've got processing plants shutting down or slowing, workers afraid to come in and/or demanding compensation and better personal protection, that's all a recipe for shortages and price increases down the road. I've read where ranchers, farmers, etc. are in a predicament where they can't market their product and can't continue to feed lifestock and so on. Could it be that the food production and the distribution network is even more essential than health care workers and if so, how long before the news transitions their coverage from hospitals to food production/distribution?

Posted by: Musburger | Apr 13 2020 17:27 utc | 234

@ 'b' b | Apr 13 2020 17:13 utc | 229

(and all... in re Julian's children and the interview.

Am I unreason'd when the beautiful Lady and the beautiful children speak, I cannot escape the murders of Macduff's wife and children.

Everyone, please see the video...

Posted by: Walter | Apr 13 2020 17:37 utc | 235

"It stands to reason that the American people could simply make the decision to not buy Chinese or SE Asia products."

Sure, they could have done that at any point in the last fifty years while good paying American blue collar jobs were all disappearing and American industry was turning to rust. They didn't. Now that even the rust from America's industry is all gone and all Americans have any experience with is serving each other frappuccinos they are going to suddenly get political about their purchases at the local big box stores?

That's just silly nonsense.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 13 2020 17:37 utc | 236

I'm now rather annoyed that my comment about today's Pepe Escobar column was devoured by the Cloud; it's title: "Confucius is winning the Covid-19 war: Compare hundreds of millions of Asians' serene response to the coroavirus crisis with the West's fear, panic and hysteria."

A few of Pepe's thoughts I used to shape my comment:

"I offer, as a working hypothesis, that the Asia triad of Confucius, Buddha and Lao Tzu has been absolutely essential in shaping the perception and serene response of hundreds of millions of people across various Asian nations to Covid-19. Compare this with the prevalent fear, panic and hysteria mostly fed by the corporate media across the West....

"Most of all, in an hour of extreme turbulence, it brings comfort to know that, 'the strength of a nation derives from the integrity of the home'....

"So what would be the ultimate insight a serene East can offer to the West in such hard times? It’s so simple, and it’s all in the Tao: 'From caring comes courage.'" [My Emphasis]

Perhaps it will eventually surface. It provides excellent examples of what I was illustrating with my Nurturing versus Parasitic Nations concept earlier I this thread.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 13 2020 17:48 utc | 237

Well, that's two comments in a row eaten by the Fucking Cloud! I'm fucking done!

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 13 2020 17:50 utc | 238

Nemesis @231

"Think about how evil you would have to be to deny consumers the right to know what their product consists of and where it was made."

...and that is exactly what the good ole US does. You have proved your point and defeated your argument in the very same sentence.

Posted by: ADKC | Apr 13 2020 17:55 utc | 239

Posted by: vk | Apr 13 2020 15:56 utc | 195

George Washington's death is example of mind boggling stupidity (not only he demanded blood letting, he spent whole evening in wet clothes after long ride in winter, ignoring possibility he may catch cold). Modern equivalent is Steve Jobs death. Lesson to learn is, no mater how much power and money you have, if you are an arrogant know-it-all idiot it wont protect you from dying.

Posted by: Abe | Apr 13 2020 17:56 utc | 240

@237 AKDC

How so? All there has to be is a catchy-named website and a few legislators that make a little wave and introduce a law that would require what I am asking for.

Watch the movement grow and you could track which reps. DENY such a consumer right as knowing what is in their product.

@232 David

That is not what I am saying. I am just asking to clearly label products with contents and country of origin.

Would you argue against this notion or will just change the subject again without addressing my request?

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Apr 13 2020 18:13 utc | 241

Nathan Tankus has a five part series up explaining the recent actions of the Fed.  Here is some information from part 3 (3/30)

I think I’m going to make this an ongoing series and write new Parts as more details about Federal Reserve programs come out. For example, a major wild card is how exactly the “Main Street Lending Program”, which seems to be separate from the “stimulus” bill’s funding to the Small Business Association for forgivable loans,  is going to be structured. If 2008 is any guide, there is going to be a range of new facilities, significant facility changes etc. announced in the next months which deserve coverage.

While Parts 1 & 2 focused on the domestic actions of the Federal Reserve, Part 3 is focused on international actions

The centerpiece of these actions is one policy tool- the Central Bank Liquidity Swap-Lines (CBLS)

Central Bank Swap lines have been around since the 1960s but they came to prominence among financial and monetary policy experts (though importantly, not the public at large) during the 2008 crisis.

In essence, central bank swap lines are lines of credit that central banks provide each in each other’s respective currencies

Thus all central bank liquidity swaps are collateralized loans, even if the “collateral” is simply a quantity of the local currency which central banks can issue in unlimited amounts.

Why do swap lines matter? The key is to understand that, from a financial point of view, international trade flows are secondary to the financial flows that cross borders

Trade issues are long term, structural and slow-moving. Financial issues can blow up the entire system of payments in a day.

It is the extraordinary amount of dollar denominated debt [issued outside the United States] which at once raises the monetary sovereignty of the United States above all others and pulls down the monetary sovereignty of other countries. This is what makes the U.S. the currency hegemon.

More and more financial and central bank experts are forming a consensus around the view that when crises strike, we should expect the dollar to strengthen and foreign interest rates on dollar denominated loans to spike as a shortage of global dollar liquidity emerges.

In the world heralded by our new global “swap line standard”, understanding the structure of swap line networks is almost as important as understanding the pattern of foreign denominated debt across the planet. The C6 countries at the top (US, UK, Canada, EU, Switzerland, Japan) have permanent, unlimited swap lines with each other. Countries in the high tier often have quantity-limited permanent swap line agreements with countries in the top tier and may be able to access a temporary quantity-limited swap line from additional top tier countries (especially the United States) during a crisis. Countries in the middle tier may be able to get access to a quantity-limited swap line agreement with a country in the middle tier. Meanwhile, countries in the lowest tiers aren’t able to access swap lines with the top two tiers (or any tiers) at all. 

3/20 As the crisis became acute and the U.S. (especially New York City) began to shut down, it simply became insufficient to inject dollar liquidity once a week and expect that to keep the system stable. This announcement, paired with the announcement the day before, managed to stabilize global dollar liquidity last week. The dollar fell by the largest amount since 2009, after experiencing the largest rise since 2008 in the weeks before that. Thus, these announcements have been a short-term success. While Important, the main structural problems remain.

Posted by: financial matters | Apr 13 2020 18:17 utc | 242

@ Posted by: Abe | Apr 13 2020 17:56 utc | 238

Didn't Steve Jobs die from an aggressive pancreatic cancer? What was he supposed to do about that? If memory serves he even scraped out an extra year or two by buying his way to the top of a transplant list.

Posted by: AshenLight | Apr 13 2020 18:17 utc | 243


Sorry, I didnt mean to make you feel I was changing the subject. I was simply stating that americans cant just decide to buy stuff made in america, because we dont make anything.

I believe the labeling requirement you are asking for already exists either by us law, or maybe wto rules. A quick look at some items I have bought recently.

A black and decker clothes iron - made in china
An automatic water dispenser (sits on top of 5 gallon water bottle) - made in china
Outdoor jacket and hiking pants from REI - made in vietnam
Banjo Brothers paniers for my bike - made in china
Specialized speedometer/odometer for my bike - made in china
Nook ereader - made in china

All of these items except the water dispenser were clearly labelled on the product, the dispenser was labeled on the box.

Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 18:25 utc | 244

ted01 @ 129
"It doesn't really help us determine how many infected people there are out in the community - the asymptomatic & minimal symptom cases that just disappear but probably unwittingly pass it on.

Actually, if I understand you correctly, that exactly what we need but do not yet have. Knut Wittknowski and Jay Battracharya are two epidemiologists who have explained that in order to get a good figure/rate on the lethality of this virus we need to know how many in the general population already have been exosed, including asymptomatic---i.e., the number in the pol who have antibodies to the virus. In other words, they stress that we need a reliable *denominator* to get a reliable rate. This we do not yet have. Dr. Bhattracharya, of Stanford, is trying to get such a survey accomplished; at the time of the interview he said he thought it might take about two weeks to get usable data. This, says Bhat., can be achieved via *serological* testing of a random but representative sample of the population from which the real denominator in the rate can be extrapolated as to how many have had novel CV exposure, to arrive at a proportion X:Y of (a) how many have fallen ill, (b) how many of these have died X as a proportion of Y total number exposed. The interview with Bhat can be found at the Stanford website by searching for "Jay Bhattacharya: Questioning Conventional Wisdom of the COVID-19 Crisis."

There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding basic numbers and reporting, and to many it starts to look like intentional confusion.

Posted by: Really?? | Apr 13 2020 18:33 utc | 245

Susan @ 117

Thanks for posting the Czech researcher's explanation.
Very useful.

Posted by: Really?? | Apr 13 2020 18:35 utc | 246

Posted by: AshenLight | Apr 13 2020 18:17 utc | 243

Steve Jobs was flop-flop wearing megalomaniac which thought he has no body odors because he ate only fruit diet, as described by his coworker. Guy lost huge amount of time and money in his ridiculous alternative medicine endeavor before turning to conventional medicine that had had it already figured out.

And by alternative I do not mean herbal stuff with centuries of anecdotal evidence that has some truth in it, but new idiotic stuff at level of veganism ("fruititarian"). Basically, cross-fit level of intelligence as far as nutrition goes.

Posted by: Abe | Apr 13 2020 18:39 utc | 247

@ Posted by: AshenLight | Apr 13 2020 18:17 utc | 243

According to his biographer, Steve Jobs was diagnosed very early, so his prospects were very good. Pancreatic cancer is incurable, but he could get some good years with the tested and approved medical treatment (which he would undoubtedly get, since he was very rich).

But he refused treatment and chose a route of mystical juices and some other natural products - all of that astrological, pseudo-scientific stuff that is very popular among the rich in California.

The pancreatic cancer obviously advanced very aggressively. When he realized he opted for the wrong treatment (if you can call it that), he desperately tried to bribe his way up to the transplant list. I don't know if he was successful or not, but it was already too late, and he died soon afterwards.

Posted by: vk | Apr 13 2020 18:41 utc | 248

Interesting, thanks guys.

Posted by: AshenLight | Apr 13 2020 18:44 utc | 249

"I am also particularly interested in a sample set of antibody tests in entirely model populace. I suspect it has been among us for longer than we can pin a date on it and that it mutates erratically as it progresses. Hence my interest in antibody frequency in both asymptomatic people and those with previous illness months ago.

. . .

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 13 2020 9:55 utc | 145"

Absolutely. See interview with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, linked up-thread. What is needed is serological tests, showing presence of antibodies in whole population. He is not the only one saying this. It makes perfect sense.

Posted by: Rreally?? | Apr 13 2020 18:44 utc | 250

Analysis by Alexander Dugin
Edited by Pepe Escobar
Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 12 2020 17:24 utc | 22

Aside from that ghastly linguistic hiatus in Part 1 and a few small niggles, I'd say the only single word for it is MASTERFUL!

Shame that the hiatus is right at the very beginning, it has a nasty effect on reading the piece as a whole. The second sentence in Part 1 cannot be followed by neither .. nor .. nor - it makes no linguistic sense to do so and its inherent contradiction throws the reader (me, at any rate) violently off track. Pepe Escobar, if you are reading this, please urgently remove the negative in the neither .. nor .. nor, and edit the rest of those three phrases accordingly.

Part 2: In other words, this state is, in some sense, deciding on the liquidation of its own philosophical and ideological basis - the conclusion is then that the state has - of its own volition - liquidated its legitimacy in entirety. The extent to which this is true of specific states is obviously directly in inverse proportion to the extent to which that state acts inherently for the benefit of its citizens (China and Russia for example), rather than acting inherently to the exclusion of the interests of its citizens - of which the most extreme examples are the US and the UK. Which is interesting, because legitimacy was precisely their most compellingly vulnerable soft underbelly over the last few years, as the various rogue states have become ever more lawless, ever more brutal, ever more imoral, and ever more bankrupt. Ever more desperate to avert the inevitable collapse of the old order, they only succeed in assuring that the collapse will be as violent, as imoral, as unjust, as dangerous and as chaotic as it possibly could be.

("Everywhere in the world ... " is my other main niggle with the linguistics - whilst the first part - the explicit or effective lockdown - is true, to varying extents, of much of the world, the intent varies widely, and with it the applicability of the rest of the paragraph. But that's just a niggle with the vague and expansive use of language, not the substantive message).

Part 3: A radically new rationality is gaining force - not the rationale of democracy, freedom, the market and individualism, but that of pure survival. Meaning, the pressure on resources for ordinary people (financial, food, rent, debts, impossibility of working, lack of masks, excessive authoritarianism in enforcement, etc) is deliberately exacerbated under the pressure of panic porn, to force people to concentrate exclusively on personal survival as a tool for eliminating opposition to the mammoth (permanent) changes in the structure of the state. The lockdown and the panic porn are mere tools in the replacement of the pseudo-"democratic" order with the forthcoming order of technocratic global slavery.

Part 4: Liberalism either did not reach its natural end and the establishment of a 'world government', or nihilistic collapse was its original goal, merely covered by an increasingly less convincing and increasingly perverse 'humanist' decor. Magnificently expressed!!! That last phrase is so perfect I have to repeat it again: .. merely covered by an increasingly less convincing and increasingly perverse 'humanist' decor! So much is condensed into those 12 words.

In recent weeks the argument has been put over and over that the elite would not deliberately crash the economy and thereby destroy precisely that which they depend on. I don't know for sure whether they are deliberately crashing the economy, or accidentally crashing the economy while desperately and through the utmost stupidity trying to save it, or simply trying to make whatever they can out of an anyway inevitable and unavoidable impending breakup of the old economic system (although I think the second is by far the least plausible). I am not an economist, but I think there are many crucial facts that need to be considered, including:

1) The inherent dependence of the neoliberal model on the stockmarket, exchange market and property market casinos - those that play these markets benefit much less from monotonic increases than from the cycling of bull and bear, buying and selling, boom and bust, create and destroy from which 99.9% of their stolen wealth is derived. The crash is an essential part of their game, and the sharper the crash, the more concentrated is the gain in the hands of the few at the expense of the many.
2) For more than 20 years it has been abundantly obvious that the elites have been itching to demolish the facade of "democracy" once and for all, and move to a system of global slavery under technocratic dictatorship and automated surveillance and control. Combine this gradual tightening of the noose over recent decades with the movement towards an imposed virtual (i.e. fabricated) perception of the world, created and fed through pure propaganda; ever increasing militarisation of society; efforts to finally eliminate one by one all countries seen as resistance to the 'global order' project; and ever increasingly over the last decade the developing sense of certainty that they are losing, that everything they attempt fails, that Russia and China are overwhelmingly winning despite all their earlier expectations that they had everything in the bag, that the old order is so utterly incabably of preventing the collapse, then instead they must try to manipulate the crash in a way that they hope to profit from and to create massive benefits for themselves in the ensuing chaos.
3) When we talk about losses in a crash, who wins and who loses is not straightforward. The elites are ruthless, and when push comes to shove many of these elites will not hesitate to push 100 of their colleagues over the cliff if the think they can collect the benefits for themselves. A crash of the entire economic system would probably cause personal catastrophy for tens or perhaps even hundreds of thousands of elites - that is as nothing for the topmost elites, if they think they can collect. Gates, Soros, Bezos and their ilk positively salivate at any such prospect.
4) If the old order is destined to crash anyway, then the elites stand to risk losing everything if the power should get transferred to the masses; better then to finally stamp out all rights and perceptions of rights of the masses before the crash takes place, imprison them in their homes, enforce their utter dependence on the state for basic survival, and only then present the new order as a fait accompli.
5) Even if what the elites are doing to the economy right now is deliberate, that does not by any means necessarily imply that this was part of the plan. Never underestimate the incompetence of "leaders".


But why no link, Karl? I tried searching for the original posting of Escobar, but could find nothing (does Yandex dislike What is his VK link?) Oh, but please do not post an ArseBook link - that abomination must be sanctioned. I'm sure he posted it on VK.

Posted by: BM | Apr 13 2020 18:48 utc | 251

Nathan Tankus has a series up explaining the recent actions of the Fed.  Here is some information from part 4 (4/9)

UPDATE: To drive me absolutely crazy, what I was worried about happening happened. Just as I wrote about their lack of major action, they took major action an hour later. I will be writing Part 5 about all the developments tomorrow. Still, I think there’s a lot of useful analysis of the last week and a half here…

We’re still at least a week away from the Main Street Lending Program and it's impossible to know how quickly the municipal bond buying program will come

3/31. the Federal Reserve followed up with an announcement of another facility meant to help a lower tier of central banks.

Thus, in the simplest terms, we can say that the Federal Reserve is providing a standing offer for central banks around the world to borrow dollars by pledging treasury securities as collateral.Why are they doing this? One reason is clearly that the global shortage of dollars has led central banks to try to dump their holdings of treasuries, which has contributed to the malfunctioning of those markets. This “FIMA” (Foreign & International Monetary Authorities) Repo Facility keeps treasury securities off of private markets

.Those on the bottom tiers (like Iran) can’t get access to dollars at all because they lack an account with the Federal Reserve all together.

This move, while helpful, will not be enough. It also illustrates that there’s a global geopolitical struggle over the U.S. dollar and the Fed is conducting foreign policy.

Should the Federal Reserve have sole discretion over foreign policy? What are the negative consequences of the Fed conducting its own, “independent” dollar diplomacy? I hope to tackle this question in future posts.

4/7 What we do know is that the Federal Reserve is not using its regulatory powers to compel banks to cancel mortgage and other debt payments during the Coronavirus shutdown. While, as we discussed in Part 2, they have said that “loan modifications” will not count as “Troubled Debt Restructurings”, banks still have full discretion to decide whether they’ll waive mortgage payments. This shouldn’t be the case. As Skanda Amarnath argued earlier this afternoon, financial regulators should be informally discussing with banks about the need for them to declare suspensions and holidays. When necessary, they should also threaten them with negative regulatory treatment, up to and including raising capital requirements, in order to compel them to declare such suspensions and holidays.

4/8 Yesterday’s announcement is relatively minor when it comes to understanding the crisis we’re experiencing and the Federal Reserve’’s response but it is very important to the larger political economy of finance in the United States. In order to facilitate Wells Fargo’s participation in the forthcoming Federal Reserve “Main Street Lending Program” and the Small Business Administration “Paycheck Protection Program”, the restrictions on Wells Fargo’s growth will be modified. Wells Fargo can grow as necessary to make loans under either of these programs. This is notable because Wells Fargo had growth restrictions applied to it by regulators because of its repeated criminal activity in a multitude of areas. It is extremely concerning that they believe we need criminal actors to make these loans.

Announcements like this, as well as the entire structure of the Main Street Lending Program and the Small Business Association’s “Paycheck Protection Program” point to the real problem with a lack of public infrastructure in the United States. A network of public financial institutions (even if they were simply post offices doing payment processing and managing customer bank accounts) would be able administer these kinds of programs, (especially programs with forgivable loans) far more effectively and uniformly than the patchwork attempt by these federal regulatory institutions to supervise private financial institutions making these loans.

Posted by: financial matters | Apr 13 2020 19:03 utc | 252

karlof1 | Apr 13 2020 17:50 utc | 238 Wally read the original and concurs. Good job.

@ BM I would proffer, but I don't recall. Maybe I saved it. Nope.

Was it on Pepe's facebook page?

Posted by: Walter | Apr 13 2020 19:13 utc | 253

sleepy @196

Larry Johnson is ex-CIA and former State Department. PUMA? DKos? No Quarter came to an end when he was conned into publishing silly tripe about Michelle Obama. Seymour Hersh’s legendary amazing sources in the military are mostly Lang, Giraldi, Johnson.

I never believe when someone says they are “ex” when the other part is CIA. The guy is all about playing games.

Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 13 2020 19:15 utc | 254

financial matters @ 252

The host is saving the virus.

This is notable because Wells Fargo had growth restrictions applied to it by regulators because of its repeated criminal activity in a multitude of areas. It is extremely concerning that they believe we need criminal actors to make these loans.

Posted by: pogohere | Apr 13 2020 19:16 utc | 255

@244 David

No problem.

But I would hazard a guess that not one of those products you bought had bold lettering on the front (and center) stating their country of origin. The only products that do this are those made in America.

I believe that just as in with GMO food products, distributors and foreign-sourced labor product companies are pissing themselves about the coming day where country of origin will be lifted to its rightful status of vast importance in the consumer mind and what will follow from this, bright, noticeable labeling will be the death knell of globalism's perpetual outsourcing of cheap, exploitative labor.

We just need a wake-up call, that's all.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Apr 13 2020 19:22 utc | 256

c1ue, I am saying people do not have to choose between letting the working families suffer from deprivation while parts of the economy are necessarily at a standstill, and letting people die. the hairdresser does not have to starve while she can't give haircuts. Ellen Brown helps explain why what I am saying is true. NOW do you get it?? people can get the means to conduct commerce WHILE we keep non-essential workers at home. the truth is that we can shut what must be shut to keep from overwhelming the healthcare system AND have people have enough money to keep needs met. I wish you could understand this. it is TRUE. AUSTERITY for working families is a CHOICE being made! it always HAS BEEN a choice being made! NO different now.

Posted by: Phryne's frock | Apr 13 2020 19:24 utc | 257

Jackrabbit #3

You ain't seen real disaster yet.
Wait till you see the EAMs on your local stations.
THIS IS IT folks!
TSHTF soon for real.
Stock food and ammo.
Good luck all. Trust nobody.
Signing out permanently.
God have mercy on the innocents.

Posted by: Qparticle | Apr 13 2020 19:28 utc | 258

pogohere @ 255

:). Definitely

Posted by: financial matters | Apr 13 2020 19:43 utc | 259

@Phryne's phrock #257
I think you don't really understand what you're talking about - and are reading what you want to see vs. what is actually printed.

Ellen Brown makes no mention whatsoever about the rights or wrongs of the shutdown and she emphatically does *not* talk about ending the shutdown - she talks her normal line about public banking as well as adds UBI and other uber-progressive programs. She also advocates expanding the proposed $1200 Trump stimulus (one time) into a regular monthly payout until the shutdowns end.
I have no issues with public banking, extending the payout etc. but these are fundamentally different programs than ending the shutdown.

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 13 2020 19:44 utc | 260

Nathan Tankus has a series up explaining the recent actions of the Fed.  Here is some information from part 5 (4/11)

this is probably the most wide-ranging and complicated Federal Reserve announcement yet. What exactly is this “2.3 Trillion dollars” in lending devoted to? 

4/9 Municipal Liquidity Facility

Despite coming later in the announcement, I’m going to start with what I’ve been harping on for a while- Local and State debt purchases. Before getting into the details, I want to take a step back and comment on how huge this moment is. A decade ago, purchases of state and local municipal debt would have been unimaginable

Overall, this program is a good start but it doesn’t recognize the long term support the Federal Reserve will need to provide sub-federal governments, including territories like Puerto Rico and smaller cities. This is a historic moment and it will hopefully be the first of many to come.

Paycheck Protection Program Lending Facility

This facility is far more conventional than the Municipal Liquidity Facility. It, like Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility, is meant to provide liquidity to certain asset classes by making those assets acceptable collateral for loans.

Main Street Lending Program

The Main Street Lending Program is probably the most “out there” program announced.

The terms of accessing the facility naturally center around what to do with the proceeds of the loan. You aren’t allowed to repay other debts with it and should only make scheduled principal payments. You also aren’t allowed to seek reductions in your lines of credit. In contrast to PPP loans, these loans only require borrowers to make “reasonable efforts” to keep employees on payroll. Finally, for the duration of the loan, borrowers must restrict executive compensation, dividends and stock buybacks. The terms of these loans are about what we’d expect. The coming months will tell us how they are enforced. Finally, the facilities will be purchasing up to 600 billion dollars in loans. It doesn’t seem like this will be enough, though between this and PPP we’re getting to very high dollar amounts directed to small businesses

Posted by: financial matters | Apr 13 2020 19:49 utc | 261


I appreciate your enthusiasm, but that boat sailed in the early 90's beginning with NAFTA, and it ain't coming back, at least not without a total restructuring of our economic and political systems.


I clearly understand what you are saying, and I am sure most others do as well. While the article you linked to does not explicitly state what you are saying, it is indeed supportive and fundamental to your larger point. It would seem that another poster is trying very hard to not understand this, one might be inclined to think this was intentional for ideological reasons. I have found that when someone is intentionally trying not to understand your points, it is probably time to quit trying to engage that person. YMMV

Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 19:53 utc | 262

@261 David

All I am asking for is legislation requiring stricter labeling to clearly discern country of origin on the front of the product when on the shelf.

You can't get behind something that simple?

Give the little people a chance, wouldya!. What, do you work for Bayer/Monsanto?!?!

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Apr 13 2020 19:58 utc | 263

Interview (vid) with Julian Assange's partner/wife.

Posted by: b | Apr 13 2020 17:13 utc | 229

Watched this posted at ConsortiumNews.
Very simpatico and intelligent woman with two beautiful sons, Julians' children.
I am so heartened to know that Julian has these two sons.
I won't speculate how, but this lady engineered a miracle.
So which is the smarter sex?? (:-))
If TPTB succeed in terminating Julian Assange I think they might soon come to regret it.

Posted by: Really?? | Apr 13 2020 20:02 utc | 264

@ 117 susan... i meant to thank you also for that post.. thank you! very interesting!

@ karlof1 - your posts have come thru.. thanks for sharing them.. i will read pepes article you link to... i like the quote from lao tzu - ''the further you go, the less you know." another good one - "those who know don't speak, and those who speak don't know", lol... i might have altered the last one a bit, but it goes along those lines..

@231 nemesis calling... as @adkc points out gracefully - they could have done this in the long distant past - label where the goods come from and where they are made' but they never did.. in fact a good example is the corporation monsanto - now bayer was determined to not let people know that the products they bought were gmo... they had deep pockets and wanted to make sure people were not given the choice about knowing what was in the product! same deal with knowing where the products come from and etc.. the horse left the barn a long time ago... can it be corrected at this late date?? it would be an uphill battle as the whole usa system is designed to protect the corporations as opposed to the people.. unfortunately that is what it looks like to me, although your position is admirable for the obvious reasons why you hold to it!

and i think the financial dynamic at play centered in the usa is a much bigger deal.. the criminals ( same banking gangsters and etc) are eating everyone's meal..

Posted by: james | Apr 13 2020 20:08 utc | 265


LOL, no I don't benefit in any way from outsourcing, at least no more so than every other consumer in the us.

Did you look at the two things I had originally mentioned? I read an article in the Seattle Times 5 or 7 years ago, that discussed how few things were actually made in america. The guy who runs that store is super adamant about every part of an item being sourced in the us, and as such only sells what he can verify has been sourced and built in the us. There is really nothing very useful at his site because we simply make very, very few things in the us. There is a bit more in the assembled in the us category, but still not that much.

The unions fought hard for these requirements back in the 90's that you are asking for. They were trying to tell anyone who would listen this is the future we are headed toward if we don't stop this off shoring of jobs now. Here we are nearly 30 years later.

I am not against such a thing, I just don't see any value to it. The end result will just be big stickers on everything you buy that says made in china, which basically just seems like a waste of stickers.

Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 20:13 utc | 266

BM @251

With regard to your point #4 (elites hoping to institute a global police state) that may be true, but it is not economically sustainable. They rule through "liberal democracy" and the illusion of freedom that is apportioned by level of wealth because that is the cheapest and most profitable social order possible in capitalism. Police states require the ruling class maintain an overt system of patronage to keep a loyal hierarchy of enforcers propping up their power. That is immensely expensive and such an arrangement will suffer rapid productivity declines. I'd be surprised if it could last a decade.

Basically, any significant change from the current societal arrangement will reduce their profits and wealth. Perhaps they don't realize that because they are drinking their own Kool-Aid, but it cannot work.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 13 2020 20:17 utc | 267

Oldhippie 254
Yeah, Larry Johnson has always been saying that the intelligence guys were hacks framing Trump for Russiagate and putting ahead bullshit fake dossiers to hurt him; basically, FBI and CIA were trying to excuse Hillary for her ridiculous loss by blaming it on Russia. And now he's believing something just as ludicrous coming from the same intelligence guys - except they're trying to excuse their current boss Trump for his incompetent handling of the coronavirus crisis by blaming it on China.
Whatever these clowns say, it's never the US fault. Well, fuck them. You had 2 months to take measures and you fucked up - well, the entire West fucked up if not downright betrayed their very own people.
If Western people had any sense, all their leaders' lifes would be forfeit as soon as the crisis quiets down a bit.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Apr 13 2020 20:17 utc | 268

Hear you loud and clear, David F, and thanks. Figure it must be intentional, since I have never once digressed from support for suppression over mitigation and being opposed to ending shutdown one minute before we have testing, treatment, and tracing up and running full bore. I see no other way to keep from overwhelming the healthcare system and that's the deciding factor to me because I will never think I have any right to gamble with the lives of some nurse's or room-cleaners' or ambulance driver's babies at home. Why don't people ask themselves why the fed gov can start a war or bail out banksters to the tune of trillions but when it comes to money for working families laid off it's all a "Oh my God where is the money going to come from to pay for THAT?????!!!!!"

have we all been wired back to front? are we thinking with our elbows? OR, WHAT?

Posted by: Phryne's frock | Apr 13 2020 20:23 utc | 269

BM @251--

As you'll note at my initial posting, I announced they were being copy/pasted from his FB page, and the Dugin piece was broken into 4 separate parts, I'm assuming by Pepe to fit them onto FB. Pepe hadn't appeared at his VK space since 9 April until he posted an item there this morning.

As for the elite "deliberately" tanking the economy, the answer is yes, although the overall process has been ongoing since the adoption of Neoliberalism in the 1970s, and a case could be made for a beginning much earlier than that when examining the pre- and post-WW1 issues and arrangements that led to the Great Depression. Do read today's Crooke essay for some tidbits of background and insight into current happenings.

The West's insatiable, dysfunctional drive to become Top Dog causes the West's elite to destroy the very thing that supports them though they're blinded to that reality by their philosophies and twisted sense of history.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 13 2020 20:26 utc | 270

Nemesiscalling @262

As David F pointed out @265, labeling goods with their place of origin ("Country of Origin Labeling - COOL") is mandated by a number of laws and trade rules already. I'd be surprised if you can find products that do not have a COOL label either on the product itself or its retail packaging. This is something that unions lobbied strenuously for from the 1970s on. Were you for it when the unions were demanding it?

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 13 2020 20:32 utc | 271

Say goodbye to ham, bacon and pork chops in USA soon.

"A major pork manufacturing plant in South Dakota has indefinitely shut down after more than 200 of its employees contracted Covid-19.

According to Smithfield, who runs the plant, the facility’s output represents up to 5% of US pork production, supplying 130m servings of food a week and employing 3,700 people. Over 550 independent farmers supplied the plant."

Posted by: gm | Apr 13 2020 20:42 utc | 272

@270 Gruff

This is for you and for everyone else here who seem to think that country of origin labeling is a bygone issue or has little influence in today's market.

Go look at consumer products on Amazon. Even in the item description, where model numbers, skus, etc. Are located I often have a hard time finding country of origin. Look up crayola crayons for instance. Scroll down to the item description and product numbers and see that you can not find country origin. It is only in q&a portion of the page of the listing where normal consumers ask questions and where item owners and manufacturers field these questions you will find the question: "Where are these made?" Often, the question is found on the 2nd or 3rd page of this q&a section. IOW, it is not clearly labeled on the item page and only asking other consumers will yield an answer.

So does that comply with your "Cool" law? I think you know the answer to that.

Similarly, items purchased in store only have "Made in China" or other SE Asia countries on the bottom side or at the very end, often the final line, or the item's details and fine print.

This does not cut it in my mind. And goes to show you that perhaps manufacturers will observe the "Cool" rule but will stretch it to such a degree that it renders the rule totally innocuous and sans teeth.

You think Black and Decker (POS) cordless drill would sell as much if on the bottom-center of the front of the box in bold letters stood "Made in China." I think not.

The amount of pushback I am getting for suggesting this and the aforementioned stretching of the "Cool" rule I noted above, tells me that labeling is still a very, very important part of sales. And this is also the reason that GMO producers fight tooth and nail to keep labeling laws from tainting their product's image.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Apr 13 2020 21:09 utc | 273


Cue the pork hoarding in 3,2,1.


I just finished voice of the dolphins and other stories, interesting book, I enjoyed it.

When I first mentioned dmitri orlov, you had said that he was building off of szilard's work, and I had anticipated to see something of that in this book. I see he has written 13 books, perusing their titles I don't see anything that seems related to collapse. Is there a specific book of his that you think is a precursor to orlov's work? You also mentioned an essay by him, there are many I found, which one of those would you say relates to orlov's work?


ps It seems to me that szilard most likely influenced douglas adams "So long and thanks for all the fish".

Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 21:10 utc | 274

Really?? @ 246

Your welcome. Just for clarification, I am small-case susan.

I started reading and posting here recently. The day after my first post I noticed there is a Susan with capital “S” already at the bar. I could use a different name to avoid confusion.

Susan, if you’re out there and reading this, let me know if you find this too confusing and I’ll change my name from susan to something else, okay?

Posted by: susan | Apr 13 2020 21:23 utc | 275

The latest piece on Iraq by Magnier.

I had read that US wanted a meeting in June on pulling out of Iraq. If US was serious about pulling out, that meeting could be held now. I take it US plans to either be in a much stronger position in Iraq by then or will have made whatever move it intends to make which I believe is attacking Iran.
The Iraqi's need to start putting US boots in body bags and lots of them.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 13 2020 21:23 utc | 276

i find it fascinating how the sst crowd didn't swallow the bs on russia, but they're getting drunk on the china bs...

Posted by: james | Apr 13 2020 21:28 utc | 277


"You think Black and Decker (POS) cordless drill would sell as much if on the bottom-center of the front of the box in bold letters stood "Made in China." I think not."

Considering the fact that every cordless drill for sale in america is manufactured in a foreign country, I don't think it matters. As I have said, we dont make shit in the us, you dont have a god damned choice any more. The best you can hope for is "made in america", which is a euphemism for "assembled in america with foreign sourced/manufactured parts".

Amazon: The item in question still has the label, even if Amazon doesn't prominently display it on their website.

GMO foods are a different subject altogether, our food does come from the us, and they should prominently display the fact that it is GMO.

The COOL is a fight that was lost several decades ago, and monsanto owns our government, and people have been fighting them for two decades or more, so good luck with that. Spend your energy as you see fit.

Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 21:33 utc | 278

@ nemesis calling... have you considered joining in with ''the patriotic choir'', otherwise known as pl's sst? you would get a lot more ready acceptance for your ideas at sst...

Posted by: james | Apr 13 2020 21:36 utc | 279
"The Australian Made and Australian Grown trade mark logos signify products whose ingredients or production mostly originate from Australia. This programme was established in 1986 with a logo created by Ken Cato and is conducted by the Australian Made Campaign Limited, a not-for-profit public foundation created by the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry and various Australian business chambers.[1]

The logo is accompanied by one of the following phrases, either Australian Grown, Australian Made or Product of Australia."

US or any country for that matter only require something like Australia has. Rather than labeling every product and where it has comer from, a simple accreditation type system to use a brand stating product is made in the buyers country. Anything that does not carry the brand can be assumed imported.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 13 2020 21:42 utc | 280

james 276

Yeah. Some of them appeared rational when it come to Russia, but with China they are showing their colours.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 13 2020 21:49 utc | 281

A full anti-Chinese campaign is been launched in the media, SST participating in it...In a full exercise of projecting, they seem to delineate the strategy they themselves are following suit...

What if, you live in a nation on the verge of financial and resources meltdown, and all in all, you see that your people are not much supportive of wars, as you have seen after even when you went to the extend of killing Gen. Soleimani and even after your bases were attacked in retaliation, how far would you go to uild people´s consent?

Would be the death of a million of your own people worth the prize?

After all, the effects on the economy would have arrived at the same point sooner or later...with or without Coronavirus...Why not precipitate the outcome if then you promise yourself recovering faster by attacking an economically better positioned country?

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Apr 13 2020 21:56 utc | 282

financial matters @260+

Thanks much for providing those comments as they buttress other explanations and interpretations. I've been closely following Wolff, Keen, Hudson, The Keiser Report, and to get what they see in the Tea Leaves.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 13 2020 22:00 utc | 283

Police states require the ruling class maintain an overt system of patronage to keep a loyal hierarchy of enforcers propping up their power. That is immensely expensive and such an arrangement will suffer rapid productivity declines. . . .

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 13 2020 20:17 utc | 266

Can you give historical examples of this dynamic?
Would you call the Cotton Kingdom South an example of this?

Posted by: Really?? | Apr 13 2020 22:01 utc | 284

@277 david

Your cheap ass should have bought a Dewalt. They have a line of made in America power tools. I have their drill and impact driver. It's a great product!

@ James

I didn't knowknow that b advocates a hive mind on his anti-war blog, but I see that when it comes to attacking China or protecting your own country's workers, you are SOL, right?


Compounding my thesis that country of origin should be better displayed on products, for products from the E.U, I have noticed that you don't even see the country listed. Instead, you see "Made in the E.U." Yikes. That really doesn't mean much to me anymore, and the fact of the matter is the E.U. imports its sweat labor anyway. Oh the damned fools there and their tourist economy. Which poster said that a country that can't harvest its own food is in dire trouble? Sounds about right.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Apr 13 2020 22:04 utc | 285

Don't know if my post arrived - i hit preview and it reported an error!

Never mind. First post! Not going to make a habit of it. Normally well covered by all . Just want to sqytwo things.

You don't need the Fed to issue dole to the populace or businesses.

You can not do without the Chinese fast and scaleable manufactories.

Here's some proof.

It's not just EU companies. The vast majority of foreign companies in the country have also resumed operations in recent weeks as the domestic epidemic waned. As of April 7, nearly 72 percent of the 8,776 major foreign-funded enterprises had resumed more than 70 percent of their operations in China, up five percentage points from the previous week, the Chinese Ministry of Commerce (MOFCOM) said on Thursday.

9:46 pm April 11
SoftBank founder Masayoshi Son said Sat that SoftBank and China's BYD reached an agreement to set up a mask production line for the production of 300m masks a month, including 100m N95 masks & 200m surgical masks, and start non-profit selling in Japan in May: report

3:18 pm April 11
US FDA issues emergency authorization for 8 mask manufacturers as of Wed, and within two days, the number was updated Fri to a total of 32, all are Chinese suppliers or manufacturers in China, showing the gap in demand for masks in the US has become larger.

7:00 pm April 10
From March 1 to April 4, China exported 10.2 billion yuan ($1.45 billion) worth of epidemic prevention supplies, including 3.86 billion masks, 37.52 million pieces of protective clothing, and 16,000 ventilators: Customs 

6:46 pm April 10
In China, five vaccines are being developed simultaneously. The fast one is adenoviral vector vaccine, which has been delivered to human body test. The fully inactivate vaccines would also be soon delivered but it still needs 1-2 year It observation: top medical expert

Posted by: DG | Apr 13 2020 22:12 utc | 286

@Posted by: H.Schmatz | Apr 13 2020 21:56 utc | 281

All of a sudden, as they are always so gross, all starts getting sense...

Trump and his cabinet inaction during months eventhough Pentagon was warning about the possibility of a pandemic since November, as the first cases appeared in China...

Trump´s cabinet inaction with respect the USS Theodore Roosevelt..., the firing of the captain when he tried to avoid a carnage amongst his crew...

The spreading of highly virulent variations of the virus in several NATO allies´nations causing hundreds of thousands of victims so as to gain NATO´s support in the coming war...

Of course they needed a real massacre so as to justify a war on China...

I only hope that, moreover to have suffered the huge human and economic loses, my country does not fall for this scam in which we have nothing to win...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Apr 13 2020 22:17 utc | 287

karlof1 @ 282

My pleasure. I thought Nathan did a great job of cataloguing the Fed's actions and providing some provocative commentary. Apparently he's been getting a lot of readers and plans to keep up his analysis as things move forward.

Posted by: financial matters | Apr 13 2020 22:17 utc | 288

It's small, but here's a Silver Lining, "'Heartbreaking Statistic': Thanks to Pandemic, March Was First Month Since 2002 Without a US School Shooting". Yet, the exercise still has a big negative side when you consider the following observation by Naomi Klein:

"Shelter in place orders have been issued in some states and cities, including New York City. Author and activist Naomi Klein on Monday drew a connection between the language of both the national pandemic lockdown and the school shooting drills children around the country take part in.

"So many abnormal normals these kids are expected to adapt to," said Klein. When my 7-year-old heard talk that our state was going into 'lockdown' he looked stricken. I realized that was a word he had learned at school at shootings drills. I had to explain that we weren't under fire. So many abnormal normals these kids are expected to adapt to."

Yeah, dystopian to the max! I wonder how many other kids were sent into a traumatic state when hearing that same term who didn't have parents mindful enough to make the connection.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 13 2020 22:23 utc | 289

@ David F | Apr 13 2020 21:10 utc | 273I just finished voice of the dolphins and other stories, interesting book, I enjoyed it.

In dialogue between the scientist and the dolphin - the dolphin has been reading the geopolitical histories and the two intellects are discussing geopolitics - the dolphin opines to the man that he sees no difference between the USSR and the USA, except that in the USA two idiots can out vote one genius, while in the USSR...and so on. The point is humorous but the equivalence is established - this is Szilard's was during the "cold war" a kind of pogrom and he spoke through an animal...classical literature an all that stuff.

Szilard recognized this juxtaposition in history. And the idea of symmetric stability is obviously (I think) implied there.

(I read this in 1968? Long time ago...the paperback's gone to dust.)

Later on, my friend Orlov noticed the similarities too.

I did not mean to imply that Orlov swiped the idea... I always thought it was baldly obvious. He saw the obvious thing that the empire was in decline. Szilard saw why...internal contradictions running into circumstance.

The essay is Wm Phaff @truthdig "Will the Military be the next institution to fail" something like that. He draws on Szilard and Dolphin.

Posted by: Walter | Apr 13 2020 22:26 utc | 290

financial matters @ 287

Next Fed tranche: Trump admin via Fed bribes US state governors to end shut down substantially by 30 April. It would fit right in with the current 2020 presidential campaign.

Posted by: pogohere | Apr 13 2020 22:30 utc | 291


Dewalt is a crap tool, it might be ok for someone who uses it for an hour once a month, but professionals who use power tools daily wouldn't even consider buying one.


Please note the key words "made" (not manufactured) with global materials. Like I said previously "assembled in america with foreign parts".

Do your own research, do your best to buy nothing but american products. You are going to be disappointed very quickly.

Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 22:31 utc | 292

@ Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Apr 13 2020 22:04 utc | 284

No, you're wrong. The USA's and Japan's attempt to bring manufacturing back will fail.

The explanation is too long to put here, so I recommend you to read this:

The post-pandemic slump

Posted by: vk | Apr 13 2020 22:33 utc | 293

H.Schmatz 286

The more I look at the stats, the less I think strains have to do with the severity of coronavirus in different countries. More to do with politics, level of hospital care and creative book keeping.
Western Europe is hardest hit, but that appears mostly politics and hospital care but Germany an outlier. Perhaps better hospital care, better tracking and testing and so forth. Pollution, average health, average age, possibly TB vaccinations all look to play a part but by far the largest is political - stage of epidemic when social distancing, lock downs, quarantines ect put into place.

But then there is still the odd stuff. Apart from Iran and China, it is the US west that is getting hit hard. So called developing nations or third world nations dont seem to be getting hit.
Middle east - Iran hit really hard at the start but rest of middle east virtually untouched.

Iran and China, Trump USA targets of choice, plus western Europe, UK and, US.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 13 2020 22:33 utc | 294

DG @ 285

Very well put.

Meanwhile the US tries to save its repo market and make sure corporate bonds maintain their interest rate levels.

Posted by: financial matters | Apr 13 2020 22:33 utc | 295

karlof @288

Man that is sad. Gotta love the us!

Walter @289


Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 22:39 utc | 296

karlof1 First month without school shooting in US....

Pompeo: "We want Iran to simply behave like a normal nation"

Yeah, dystopian to the max!

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 13 2020 22:43 utc | 297

@277 david

Your cheap ass should have bought a Dewalt. They have a line of made in America power tools. I have their drill and impact driver. It's a great product!

Yep, stick with Dewalt.
Yellow plastic housings.
But, some online searching reveals that (a) Black & Decker owns Dewalt and (b) that most components of Dewalt tools are not made in the USA but some are assembled in the USA.

This site has pretty interesting info on what tools are made in the USA:

Turns out that B&D owns Craftsman. I thought that was a Sears brand name!

I still say Dewalt tools and, e.g., drill bits etc. are more solid than the average. Maybe B&D will bring some of this manufacturing back to te USA. To me tools are the essence of what should be made here, because home improvement and the DIY mentality is one of the fundamentals of the American psyche and a bedrock of American culture.

Posted by: Really?? | Apr 13 2020 22:50 utc | 298

@291 Daniel

Thanks for pointing that out. It's better than nothing, however, and supports American jobs. There is indeed a long way to go but labeling a product on the front with country of Origin and including manufacturing of foreign parts should be available to the consumer. I see no way how this can be refuted and the fact that the discussion careened into historical reasons and opinion as to why this is a bad idea goes to show you there will always be pushback for disrupting exploited labor.

As for the rest of the scare tactics being floated around here that the U.S. would die without China...

Like I said in a prior post, the western mind at heart would rather die than be ruled by an eastern power. Take that to the bank.

I pray soon we get the chance to test that theory.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Apr 13 2020 22:51 utc | 299

@ 284 nemesis calling.. i meant it in a positive way.. i don't want to take anything away from what you are saying, but i know for a fact that the folks on larry johnsons thread would really welcome your labelling idea.. they are a hard core crowd of patriots who were quite good are seeing the russian propaganda but are getting drunk on the chinese propaganda.. it is weird... otherwise thinking seemingly intelligent people are gaga over the china prop!!!
check it out if you haven't -here..

also, the abbreviation sol - ? shit out of luck?? not sure what it means and the dictionary has a lot of options too..

Posted by: james | Apr 13 2020 22:51 utc | 300

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