A few Easter musings.
No church on Easter for the faithful. The illuminati must feel like they are in heaven. Their goal of achieving a godless society is in reach. Well, not exactly godless since they think the elites among them have a mission to become like God, as man was made in Gods image for the purpose of knowing himself through man. We shall all worship God, which are our elites, and the priests of this Man-God religion are technocratic scientists. Some call it scientism or gnosticism or transhumanism
The idea is to transhumanistly “upgrade” humanity, create an Internet of Us, and to geocybernically control the processes of the earth system (this is known as the Fourth Industrial Revolution 4IR)
Capitalism. How strange so many here recognize the evils of Bad capitalism, more properly defined as Monopoly Capitalism, or Neoliberalism to distinguish it from good Capitalism -which is competitive capitalism well regulated in the interests of society as a whole, with a dash of socialism and monopoly (state or private) capitalism in certain industries as needed.
When we talk of Bad Capitalism of the sort Marx no doubt had in mind, we must look back and recall something Marx never envisioned, perhaps because it was a reaction to the globalist socialist theories he espoused. That was Mussolini’s and then later Hitlers National Socialism, or economic Fascism. This was more accurately defined as a public private partnership (P3) that is so often referred to by the Gates funded WOrld Economic Forum and those talking about UN Sustainable Development Projects, and has become a religion of sorts in the West and also in China (more about that in a separate comment when I have time) and is really the essence of todays neoliberalism (not the propaganda you read about neoliberalism from its supporters)
Back in the 30’s Mussolini’s economic fascism was greatly admired by the Capitalists of that day, even FDR who has been mislabelled as socialist and anti-capitalist despite coming from the financial elite (much like Trump who is mislabelled as nationalist snd antiestablishment despite being a globalist and financial elite in private life).
Indeed just before and after Hitler took over in Germany with his partnership with German companies – the Capitalists in the US and UK/France rushed in via cartel agreements with German companies to invest and transfer technology. FDR did little to stop this.
FDR if we recall was the father of NRA which was his first priority after confiscating the peoples gold and devaluing the dollar. Fortunately his fascist NRA economy was struck down by the Supreme Court only to later reemerge during WWII. This is when P3 really crystallized in the US although it would take decades to morph into todays beast, and required another Pearl Harbor to gain acceptance for the purpose of keeping us safe from Islamic Terrorism and now the virus terrorists
One might argue that the difference between Mussolini’s and Hitlers P3 and today is the government was the dominant power then, and today its at best an equal partner or more likely dominated by the corporate side (in China the private ownership is largely in the hands of the party elite as individuals and not the state which serves to subsidize their enterprises while socializing losses and privatizing profits-like the West) . Those in government, after public retirement go on to lucrative employment on the private side as their reward. Regulatory agencies are all captured by the private side of this public private partnership
This is apparent in many industries. Many of you see it with Military, intelligence and homeland security, Big Tech/Data, finance, insurance and real estate (FIRE), etc.
However, when it comes to Medical -Pharma Industry and other “science” based industries like the Climate Industry you are blinded by scientism promoted by the MSM spinmeisters supporting the Green-Virus Globalist Agenda. Yet both of these industries are driven by Public Private Partnerships to achieve Global Capitalist and Global Government Control objectives.
As Eisenhower said in his 1961 exit speech where he warned of the dangers of the MIC he also said “we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.”
So looking specifically at the actors involved in the latest Pandemic, and one sees many of them are the same players behind the Climate Terror Industry, one sees a tremendous amount of collaboration between Big Pharma, UN agencies, national health agencies, military, academia and tax free philanthropic foundations (Gates, Rockefeller, etc).
Government funds basic science via military and health/science agencies to search for new viruses or enhancing known viruses with gain of function research, that Big Pharma then exploits to develop vaccines with government and philanthropic funds in the event such viruses are released. All kinds of money gets spent in preparing for a pandemic, stockpiling supplies , medicines, vaccines in advance of a pandemic, studying ways to control people once a pandemic arrives, and studying more ways to control people to prevent another pandemic (digital id, health certificates, mandatory vaccines) . When a pandemic does arrive, all those exercises and simulations (Crimson Orange, Event 201, Dark Winter, etc) pay off, trillions of dollars are unleashed out of thin air thanks to the Fed Reserve and handed out to the private partners.
Disaster Capitalism at its finest, public private partnership working toward total control of people and earning plenty of money while doing so. Companies having nothing to do with the Pandemic but affected (Airlines, hotels) , some of which are already in trouble (Boeing) are bailed out. Small business owners get crushed.

Posted by: Pft | Apr 13 2020 2:42 utc | 103

James @ 81 and onwards:
Ted01 has a point. He is right about me at least: I don’t believe what WaPo and the NYT were printing about US involvement in Iran, Syria and Venezuela and what those nations’ governments were supposedly doing or not doing to their populations. On the other hand, I read what MoA says about COVID-19 and then I read what Off-G, Swiss Propaganda Research, The Blogmire and various other websites and blogs have to say about COVID-19, I try to discern what their aims and reasons are for saying what they say, and then I come to my own judgement.
From what I read on some of these sites, their point is that the lockdowns that have been put in place across Western nations may have ulterior agendas behind them. The Blogmire in particular has been quite vociferous about the impact of the UK lockdown on people’s political freedoms and the work they do – or did before the lockdown destroyed a lot of jobs. (Of course The Blogmire was a valuable resource with regard to the Skripal poisoning incident and its aftermath in 2018 but I see no acknowledgement here at MoA on Rob Slane’s current opinion on the impact of COVID-19 lockdown in Britain.)
China gets the benefit of the doubt because (a) the Chinese were hit first by a disease the knew little about, (b) Beijing may have had to reason to suspect a biowarfare disease agent, based on recent suspicious epidemics of African swine fever, plus the failure of the HK protests in 2019 to spread to southern China, and (c) we Westerners do not know or understand enough about how China’s political and medical institutions operate at all, let alone know how these institutions worked to enforce lockdowns in Wuhan and Hubei province and had the trust and support of the general public in that city and its province.
The thing is that Off-G and others of similar opinion have just as valid reason to voice concern about the actions that govts across the world have taken to cimbat COVID-19 which have the effect of destroying working class jobs and putting millions into poverty while preserving middle and upper class jobs which can be done online and remotely. For MoA to criticise Off-G in the way it has looks like a cheap shot.

Posted by: Jen | Apr 13 2020 2:54 utc | 105

Posted by: Jen | Apr 13 2020 2:54 utc | 104
“concern about the actions that govts across the world have taken to cimbat COVID-19 which have the effect of destroying working class jobs and putting millions into poverty while preserving middle and upper class jobs which can be done online and remotely. For MoA to criticise Off-G in the way it has looks like a cheap shot…”
I too share your much of your views, while I’m bias, leaning toward China. I had become more a supporter of Socialism with Chinese Characteristic. As I watched both the Dem and Rep bashing each for monopoly leaving the majority living from day to day endless direction. One wonder if China is a democratic nation embraced the capitalism systems, it will surely continue another century of humiliation. China succeeds b’cus she did what needs to be done – with an iron fist stopped Covid-19 dead on it tracks – maybe without regards the feeling of outsiders. She did what is needed for its citizens first and fuck the rest…. Regardless China actions she is damn if she did and damn she did not.
Remember even if one agrees China screwed up or covered up initially but what stopping the US and other nations ignored WHO director general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus repeated warning prepare for the pandemic… they had at least more than two weeks warning… “window of opportunity still open…. closing fast..”

Posted by: JC | Apr 13 2020 3:48 utc | 107

Jen@104
“The thing is that Off-G and others of similar opinion have just as valid reason to voice concern about the actions that govts across the world have taken to cimbat COVID-19 which have the effect of destroying working class jobs and putting millions into poverty while preserving middle and upper class jobs which can be done online and remotely. For MoA to criticise Off-G in the way it has looks like a cheap shot.”
I don’t think those “middle and upper class jobs” are going to be preserved. The issue I see with the “ulterior motives” crowd is they are not seeing the bigger picture. The entire system is crashing via an unstoppable chain reaction, and those jobs will be gone in a short while as well. What do the western governments have to gain by crashing the system that puts them in power and makes them wealthy? There is not a single business owner or ceo that wants to see the money spigot shut off, nor does the government want to see the tax stream dry up, or spend shit tons of money trying to keep this whole thing afloat.
Western governments fucked up big time by not getting ahead of this virus. When they did act through the quarantine, it was an act of desperation, hoping to prevent a catastrophe.
The result of that is what is crashing the system. We have 600,000 sick people in america right now, almost entirely in the last month, this is happening when most of america has been asked to stay at home, approximately 80-90% of the population. This virus is more contagious than anything that I am aware of, probably even more so than the spanish flu, which literally wiped out entire towns. How many would we have if we had just been going about business as usual? 10’s of millions, probably 100’s of millions. At that point it is apocalyptic, not just catastrophic.
Had the government not issued stay at home directives, then everyone would have gotten sick all at once, and we would be facing the same issue with a collapsing system, but the collapse would have been cause by a massive health crisis.
I don’t think the governments crashed the system as some sort of power grab, I think it is more of a colossal fuck up concerning the virus. Either way the failure to aggressively contain the virus from the get go doomed our system.
See my post at 67, and read old collapse posts at cluborlov.
Does anyone here actually read the NYT or WAPO? Why would anyone, they have a long history of being proven liars? It does not take very much imagination to see what is happening here. A fragile system that has been on the edge of breakdown for decades has finally met the crisis that is going to take it down.

Posted by: David F | Apr 13 2020 4:09 utc | 109

Why some farmers are destroying their crops and dumping fresh milk despite the skyrocketing demand at food banks across the country?

Sadly chain of production is rupturing. Alast revisinting 1929.

Posted by: arata | Apr 13 2020 4:22 utc | 111

donkeytale Dem Party CIA blog killer.
Study a bit too much of teh English?

Posted by: blues | Apr 13 2020 4:36 utc | 113

Donk at 107, it’s not where you’re from it’s where you’re at. Hope you and family are well.

Posted by: fairleft | Apr 13 2020 5:16 utc | 115

There’s no conflict between taking the pandemic seriously and seeing the crisis as having been engineered to benefit a few at an enormous cost to the rest of us not least the dead and ill.
There were two extreme responses to the outbreak. One allowed the virus to spread and gain in doubling time, ensuring massive lockdowns. The other acted to swiftly end the virus’ ability to spread.
The UK, USA and Swedish “herd immunity” policies put off testing, pouring gasoline on the pandemic fire. This needlessly cost(s) lives and hospitalizations and also ensured that a crisis would develop such that lockdowns would eventually ensue. China, after what appears to be a localized political suppression of the news of the virus, attacked it with warfare and killed its curve.
A March 13 interview with a Czech research scientist in molecular-biology virology, Dr. Sona Pekova, shines an unfavorable light on the CDC’s PCR antigen test. She describes how it was not optimally designed for pandemic use, and so she and her lab modified it to make it simpler, cheaper, faster, more accurate and more useful, indicating viral loads. Pekova, who is hands-on experienced in viral genome alterations, describes why she thinks this viral genome had to come out of a lab. See transcript below.
Apparently the CDC, late to act, designed a test that is difficult to use in pandemic situation. Further, when the test was finally was released ( 2 months late), it didn’t work properly due to contaminated reagents, delaying testing by several more weeks. After so many delays and the unsuitability of the test to pandemic needs, the go-ahead was finally given to regional US labs to design their own tests. Meanwhile, a reliable German test protocol had been available to use in January and ignored. Seems clear the CDC was not in a hurry to stop the pandemic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Czech research virologist Dr Sona Pekova interview, 13.3.2020
1:29 Dr.Sona Pekova talks about the CDC test directions which her lab initially followed but found “at the first, second and next glance it looked cumbersome and complex and required a lot — it was expensive, it had significant technological demands, or it required relatively technologically demanding equipment, and when we need to test a lot of people during an epidemic, that’s not the way to do it.
“So we had two authentic isolates of the virus from humans, we sequenced it and read the genetic information of the virus in some areas we considered significant and we found that the virus was much easier to detect, using the same technology as suggested by the CDC — we didn’t abandon it, but it’s much easier to detect by targeting another region of its genome, not here (points at genome) toward that terminal part of the genome, but somewhere at the very beginning. There it has sequences that uniquely identify it where it can’t be confused with another virus or another coronavirus and in fact it can be done with one reaction per patient. So instead of three, we only need to do one, saving chemicals, time, cost, instrument positions and no complicated equipment is needed as in multiplex testing. So this is a way to test a large amount of samples — it has to be fast, simple, reliable and quantitative to tell us how much of the virus there is and it can’t be beyond the lab’s capacities. Because after we publish our assay, the test that we provide free of charge to everyone who is interested … many laboratories from around the world have contacted us and requested the test from us. So if nobody had any trouble with the original test (CDC test), this new test probably wouldn’t be in such high demand.”
15:16 — 17:58 Why Dr. Pekova thinks this virus is “atypical”
“Viruses mutate regions that encode structural proteins, that is proteins that form the body of the virus. These are proteins that determine how the virus will attack the (host) cell, how it will penetrate it; simply put, protein-protein interaction. And here we discovered that the virus naturally has some heterogeneity in its body, the structural genes, but what sets it apart is the region of the virus which is the control room of the virus, the regulatory region of the virus where replication of the virus is triggered, where the transcription and production of protein is triggered so it’s the ‘control room’.
“In this virus it looks as if someone entered the control room; the control room allows viruses to recognize each other — these sequences are identical within the group. Well, in this virus the control room looks as if someone entered it, opened the closets, threw everything out of them, flipped chairs — and if it were a natural variant one could hardly imagine that such extensive mutations — insertions, deletions, various single-nucleotide mutations — could happen accidentally and the virus wouldn’t die during this process.
“Because the virus doesn’t let anything touch the control room, and that means, ‘I am in control here and you can mutate these genes for these proteins through which I will enter cells or recognize another host but don’t come here where I am in command.’ This has to be preserved without mutations if possible. And if there is a mutation, it must be mutation that makes the virus stronger. Any mutation that makes it weaker is an evolutionary disadvantage and would not survive. . . I don’t know if the mutation is artificial but it’s so … (interviewer interjects, suggesting the word, atypical)…yes, “atypical” at the very least…”
at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmL7okhbVzU&feature=youtu.be

Posted by: susan | Apr 13 2020 5:46 utc | 117

I have never ever heard of ‘right wing types’ ‘gravitating’ toward ketogenic diets. As far as I have learned, it is nearly impossible to remain in the ketogenic metabolic state, which largely requires living on energy from coconut oil. People do benefit greatly from living on the ‘fringe’ of ketogenic with olive and even canola oil, etc. It has absolutely nothing to do with politics. (Really!)

Posted by: blues | Apr 13 2020 6:22 utc | 119

@J Swift | Apr 13 2020 2:38 utc | 100

NASA analysis of Boeing very unflattering

Thanks for that link! That was very unflattering indeed. It seems NASA will not consider Boeing for human space flight. The comments to that article says everything.

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 13 2020 6:56 utc | 121

uncle tungsten @106
“Who keeps these daily stats and is there a link?”
Interestingly detailed data seems to be hard to come by.
On the Victorian state government Dept. of Health & Human Services website
Coronavirus Covid-19 in Victoria
The data provided here is the bare minimum – 5 pages of fluff.
No breakdown of ages of deceased.
No indication of severity, pre-existing conditions etc.
These are all people who have tested positive but no indication of whether they were hospitalized or sent to isolation.
Everything is on computer & all the hospitals are linked. The IT system is somewhat archaic but from personal experience it does work. All patient details are entered on admission & updated by medical staff as treatment progresses.
In this emergency situation I would not imagine that the lag time for the data to be updated would be more than a day or two.
It begs the question why is the more comprehensive data not being released? It has got to be there.
Somebody has decided we don’t need to know.
There might be more data somewhere else, but it’s certainly not jumping out (my search engine skills are not the best).
Disclaimer: The corona virus exists. The corona virus is extremely virulent & more severe than the ‘flu’. The corona virus kills indiscriminately, mainly the elderly but not confined to the elderly. There are more things we don’t know about the corona virus than the things we know.

Posted by: ted01 | Apr 13 2020 7:05 utc | 123

It’s getting a little heated in here.
So much so, that even the occasional drive by troll is turned off.
Jeez, people. Let’s raise the bar a bit and keep it civil.
There’s much to be read and learned here, typically.

Posted by: Cadence calls | Apr 13 2020 7:28 utc | 125

Blues: f#ckoff if u have no substance. Especially in context where my post is the only one here that is in contact with the real issues for this real world and the life-death catastrophe the working class and poor are going through.

Posted by: fairleft | Apr 13 2020 7:40 utc | 127

Peter AU1 @126
Thanks – teasing out a bit more detail.
For Victoria – 70000 tested, 1281 confirmed with 40 hospitalized (14 in ICU).
Can we assume the 70000 tested were high risk/presented to Emergency Dept/showing signs of infection.
It doesn’t really help us determine how many infected people there are out in the community – the asymptomatic & minimal symptom cases that just disappear but probably unwittingly pass it on.
What is needed is a quick (results in a couple of minutes) test that can be administered by minimally trained personnel on a mass scale.
Condition of entry to shopping centres & supermarkets. Roadside testing, workplace testing etc.
The problem is what to do with the mother of 3 testing positive at the local supermarket.
Maybe train up the backpackers that come door to door hawking solar panels & mobile phone plans – test on your doorstep.
Disclaimer: The corona virus exists. The corona virus is extremely virulent & more severe than the ‘flu’. The corona virus kills indiscriminately, mainly the elderly but not confined to the elderly. There are more things we don’t know about the corona virus than the things we know.

Posted by: ted01 | Apr 13 2020 7:49 utc | 129

ted01
I believe all is required is for positive cases to be quarantined. It would be a different story if infection was out of control as it was in China. China now has very few or no domestic transmission. Australia should never have had lock down, rather all incoming travelers should have been quarantined until they were cleared of coronavirus.
That Australia has such a high number of tests to confirmed cases, I believe means there are very few unaccounted for cases.

Posted by: Peter AU | Apr 13 2020 8:09 utc | 131

Link @132 not working. Copy and paste to browser.
https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020/03/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-clinicians.docx

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 13 2020 8:23 utc | 133

Posted by: JC | Apr 13 2020 3:48 utc | 108
“…. but what stopping the US and other nations ignored WHO director general
Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus repeated warning prepare for the pandemic…”
Perhaps powerful people wanted the pandemic to grow worse to hide their OTHER HAND as they grab trillions of dollars?
While we look at the covid virus, they are looking at how to eat other people’s lunches !!!
Perhaps we are watching the WRONG HAND?!!?!??!!

Posted by: kiwiklown | Apr 13 2020 8:41 utc | 135

uncle tungsten Anywhere, any country a number of clinical signs and symptoms are used in any diagnosis.
It is the claim of those that are trying to prove the pandemic a hoax use the ‘unknown multitudes’.
Countries actively tracking and testing will have very few of these.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 13 2020 9:14 utc | 137

Peter “I believe all is required is for positive cases to be quarantined. It would be a different story if infection was out of control as it was in China. China now has very few or no domestic transmission. Australia should never have had lock down, rather all incoming travelers should have been quarantined until they were cleared of coronavirus.
That Australia has such a high number of tests to confirmed cases, I believe means there are very few unaccounted for cases.”
I agree entirely.
For the French stats, one has to realize that hospital docs work there “blind” because the French have no centralized “medical file”. Their GP has one, their psy who give them poisonous substances has its own, the hospital where they see a specialist has another, the hospital where they were sent for surgery yet another, etc. So if ppl died from chloroquine or antibiotic, it is simply because they have no clue about the other medications these guys have been taking or if they have a pre-condition (especially if you bring them only when they can hardly breathe and speak).

Posted by: Mina | Apr 13 2020 9:18 utc | 139

Thank you whoever posted this website!
http://www.defenddemocracy.press/
It looks like Erdo got a nice piece of cake and respectability when he went to Brussels a month ago.
http://www.defenddemocracy.press/unbelievable-prague-executing-turkeys-orders/

Posted by: Mina | Apr 13 2020 9:33 utc | 141

ted01: it is already ‘herd immunity’ for the so-called essential workers who take the public transportation in big cities.
Why aren’t they paid double? or exempted of taxes for this year? why isn’t it even discussed?
In fact, it is discussed by one guy in his kitchen (check Allo Ruffin on Youtube), he is an MP too but his party will never make it, especially now that the +65 are in a complete panic state and the -65 in sideration after a month of house arrest plus intensive propaganda; to illustrate the abysmal degree of the prop’, this article yesterday: “Is it safe to put my clothes to dry on a line outside in the garden?” with sub-title: “it would be dangerous only if an infected person came less than a meter from it”…….
http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/coronavirus-puis-je-mettre-mon-linge-a-secher-dehors-12-04-2020-8298270.php

Posted by: Mina | Apr 13 2020 9:39 utc | 143

Peter AU1 #139

It is the claim of those that are trying to prove the pandemic a hoax use the ‘unknown multitudes’. Countries actively tracking and testing will have very few of these.

I suspect you are reading me incorrectly. I know it is real and I have no interest in crying ‘hoax’. There may be hiests economically and scaremongering policy decisions going on daily but the virus reality remains the same. I seek to compare things on an equal statistical level. That is why I seek to know the whole of population picture.
I am interested in its progress and relativity to other diseases and our epidemiological responses to same.
I am also particularly interested in a sample set of antibody tests in entirely model populace. I suspect it has been among us for longer than we can pin a date on it and that it mutates erratically as it progresses. Hence my interest in antibody frequency in both asymptomatic people and those with previous illness months ago.
As you have seen in my posts here, I also suspect it to be a manipulated virus. The 2010 paper linked in the Professor Francis Boyle interview shows that Wuhan lab, the CSIRO in Australia and university in USA performed some ‘gain of function’ research and experimentation in 2010. Hence my interest in a prosecution before the ICC.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 13 2020 9:55 utc | 145

– It’s a REAL pity Boris “Blow-Job” Johnson didn’t die. It would have shown what kind of infantile government the UK has.
– In the mean time FOX News/FAUX news is still downplaying the threat of COVID-19 and worshipping “Our Dear Leader” (a.k.a. Donald Trump).
http://www.newshounds.us/sarah_sanders_alternate_pandemic_trump_what_a_leader_looks_like_041220

Posted by: Willy2 | Apr 13 2020 10:12 utc | 147

Peter AU1 | Apr 13 2020 7:57 utc | 132
Extremely important to distinguish “case fatality rate” from mortality rate, which you haven’t done. Case fatality rate in China was impacted, early on greatly, by the lack of preparedness in China for the novel coronavirus.

Posted by: faiirleft | Apr 13 2020 10:17 utc | 149

uncle tungsten
ICC is only for hanging darkies.
https://www.casebriefs.com/blog/law/international-law/international-law-keyed-to-damrosche/chapter-2/military-and-paramilitary-activities-in-and-against-nicaragua-nicaragua-v-united-states/

The United States (D) challenged the jurisdiction of the I.C.J when it was held responsible for illegal military and paramilitary activities in and against Nicaragua (P) in the suit the plaintiff brought against the defendant in 1984. Though a declaration accepting the mandatory jurisdiction of the Court was deposited by the United States (D) in a 1946, it tried to justify the declaration in a 1984 notification by referring to the 1946 declaration and stating in part that the declaration “shall not apply to disputes with any Central American State….”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 13 2020 10:20 utc | 151

I ran onto this when looking up gain of function research.
“On Dec 19, 2017, the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) announced that they would resume funding gain-of-function experiments involving influenza, Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus, and severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus. A moratorium had been in place since October, 2014.”
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(18)30006-9/fulltext
“Federal officials today released a plan to help U.S. agencies decide whether to fund controversial studies that make viruses more dangerous. The guidance may finally bring an end to a moratorium that has kept a handful of experiments funded by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) on hold for more than 2 years.”
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/01/white-house-announces-review-process-risky-virus-studies

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 13 2020 11:13 utc | 153

uncle tungsten @144
“…Testing is of minimal use at this stage…”
I am not sure what you mean by this – due to my limited understanding of how pandemics work – at what stage does mass testing become important (if ever)?
Is the solution just to let it run it’s course? Open everything up, everybody back to work, sensible public distancing, masking, protection for the elderly & medically compromised.
With no vaccine in sight the only option is everybody back to work.
What is the true situation regarding herd immunity in Sweden? Only extreme negativity from corporate media.
Mina – “it is already ‘herd immunity’…” – I agree totally, my workplace is hot (some areas 45deg plus) & noisy which requires shouting at close range to communicate, confined spaces etc. & zero social distancing out on the factory floor. Ironically the company decided it was not ‘safe’ for maintenance to share the common lunchroom, so we now have our own private room.
The upside is my comment on mass testing seems to have stimulated a much more polite conversation.

Posted by: ted01 | Apr 13 2020 12:05 utc | 155

@uncle tungsten | Apr 13 2020 9:36 utc | 144

Thank you for that blast of sane fresh air. At this stage in most countries suppression of the virus is impossible. Mitigation of its spread is perhaps achievable if there is intensive masking in play.

Thank you for responding positively, it is helpful in a very dark time.
Now let me tell you that I know personally one of the very first people in this country that caught the virus from traveling to Italy/Austria. I worked with that person in the same room over several days. One evening (March 11) I was called up by my boss and told to stay at home the next day. I also received a call from a nurse since I had been in contact with said person. I stayed at home for more than two weeks and had zero symptoms. The whole office building was closed down and parts of it sanitized. Lots of people had been in contact with this person in crowded, open offices. There were no other cases. This company has offices in many countries with thousands of employees, but the last I heard was only 5 were diagnosed world wide. The person I know was working from home after 2 weeks.
My son has lost his job with COVID-19 as the reason given, I hope I will not be laid off for the same reason (it has been discussed).
My message is that the consequences of the actions taken by governments and companies far exceeds the consequences of the virus. Civil liberties are blown to pieces and people are losing their jobs. I suspect more people world wide will die from such consequences than from the virus.
Although the virus is real (and quite possibly man made) and to be taken seriously, one must not completely lose perspective. During the Spanish flu something like 50 to 100 million people died. Right now the corresponding COVID-19 number is 115 thousand, a thousand times less than the Spanish flu. Of course the numbers might increase, but they will never come close to 100 million.
The only way this becomes a real disaster is if society is deliberately destroyed.

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 13 2020 12:11 utc | 157

re : Norwegian | Apr 13 2020 11:47 utc | 156
I won’t attempt further debate after this with such a closed concrete mind, but I did find it interesting you took exception to the reference to Norway’s Quisling. Everything I have learned about Norwegian involvement with nazis is somewhat limited,but I do know many of the nazi inspired ’round ups’ were actually committed by civilian norwegian police or the Quisling regime’s police, the STAPO rather than the gestapo. What is the kicker for me is how was it that the norwegian courts aquitted the norwegian ringleader of the jewish round-up, oslo police chief Knut Rød in the 1960’s. That and the fact the Norwegian nazis, the Nasjonal Samling, were responsible for gathering the list of alleged jews suggest that putting the blame for oppression in WW2 Norway entirely onto German fascists is a problematic to say the least.
Upthread you were content to suggest that your parents experience in ww2 Norway qualified you to pass judgement on the Australians who were likely to round up the citizens in similar fashion, so calling me out for accurately describing norwegian collaboration with nazis , something you want to ignore, is a tad hypocritical to say the least.

Posted by: A User | Apr 13 2020 12:22 utc | 159

From the bbc live
Germany now has more people who have recovered from coronavirus than active cases, officials say. Over the past 24 hours, there were 2,537 new positive tests, taking the total to 127,854. That’s the fourth-biggest number in Europe, but just over 50% of those have recovered.
In Spain, 37% of the 166,831 people infected have recovered, in Italy 22% of 156,363, in France 21% of 133,670. In the UK 85,208 people have tested positive, but data on the recovery rate was not available.

Posted by: Mina | Apr 13 2020 12:30 utc | 161

Vk@92
It only takes moments to search doses for chloroquine. Doses for malaria, doses for malaria prophylaxis, doses for COVID are all just a few keystrokes away. And yes, entire populations have used chloroquine for malaria for generations. Yes, billions. You are making something simple into something complex and you have to invent to get there.
Every master of the diamat ever encountered has been a fraud. No exceptions in my experience.

Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 13 2020 12:33 utc | 163

The virus is getting democratic in the US too
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/12/business/stanley-chera-coronavirus-trump/index.html

Posted by: Mina | Apr 13 2020 12:57 utc | 165

@A User | Apr 13 2020 12:22 utc | 159

I won’t attempt further debate after this with such a closed concrete mind

And then you go on debating it. I have not and will never defend the quislings in this country, not during WWII and not the quislings of today, that looks like a strawman. The fact that the name Quisling is synonymous with traitor is for good reason. Vidkun Quisling was executed after the war.
All I am doing is to provide some actual factual reference we have experienced here, that I find relevant to the present madness. Much as you can use your country to interpret the present situation, I can use my experience here.
No, it wasn’t my parents, you are assuming too much.

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 13 2020 13:03 utc | 167

@JohninMK | Apr 13 2020 12:29 utc | 160

What A User said in his first sentence is quite fair what with WW2 Nazis and Breivik more recently. Stoltenberg is just enjoying his rewards for being a good boy in Norway, obeying his benefactor.

I am ignoring your first paragraph.
Breivik? I could make a long thread about 22. July 2011, but I will not. I heard the explosion and I know the places. I have checked the details and sources. One thing is for sure, the truth of what happened that day has not been published. Do not take this as defending Breivik or nazism. On the contrary, I am saying that the freedom won in WWII by defeating the nazis is being severely eroded today due to the exploitation of the virus crisis, by governments spreading terror in the populations. I consider this exploitation as an act of terrorism, much like 911 and 22. July 2011.

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 13 2020 13:31 utc | 169

Nathan Tankus has a five part series up explaining the recent actions of the Fed. Here is some information from part 1 (3/25)
https://nathantankus.substack.com/p/the-federal-reserves-coronavirus
3/15. It buys 500 billion dollars of treasury securities and 200 billion dollars of government guaranteed, mortgage backed securities. these purchases should be made “at a pace appropriate to support the smooth functioning of markets for Treasury securities and agency MBS” so they are clearly concerned that the financial crisis will cause these markets to malfunction and are trying to preempt that.
They also greatly expanded their own repurchase agreements i.e. lending secured by treasury securities to financial markets. These also inject settlement balances, albeit on a temporary basis.
they are clearly responding to the situation like it’s a crisis by this point.
3/17. With the second announcement, we’re officially back in crisis. What marks financial crises the most is the alphabet soup of facilities announced by central banks. The first facility to return is the Commercial Paper Funding Facility (CPFF)
The announced facility also brings back one of the Federal Reserve’s favorite tricks- setting up a special purpose vehicle it lends to in order to enter into transactions it itself can’t enter.
It’s independent existence is a legal fiction.
The problem is that corporations have been having increasing trouble borrowing as financial markets freeze up as a result of coronavirus. This can affect their ability to make payroll and meet other important financial obligations. In other words, it’s unacceptable to let the commercial paper market go down.
3/18. Today the Fed announced only one facility- the Money Market Mutual Fund Liquidity Facility (MMMFLF). Money Market Mutual Funds are professionally managed “investment pools” which buy a defined set of assets and sell “shares” to individuals and other entities so that they can invest relatively small amounts which are tied to the movement in prices of these much larger denomination assets. Massive amounts of assets are held by Money Market Mutual Funds and their deposit-like nature makes them an important liquid asset for many households and thus makes their portfolio choices important and investor redemption dangerous for market liquidity.
This is the first facility announced which is larger in scope and different from any facility created during the 2008 Great Financial Crisis
3/20 Last, but certainly not least, today the Federal Reserve announced that it was expanding the Money Market Mutual Fund Liquidity Facility to purchases of state and municipal debt with a maturity of 1 year or less. This is important because state and local governments are bearing the burden of increases in healthcare spending right at the time their tax revenues are falling off a cliff and municipal interest rates are rising. Still, the facility is of limited help because it is limited to maturities of 1 year or less. I hope to write more about the state and municipal debt situation next week.
I will be using part 3 of this series Friday to go through the Federal Reserve’s responses to the international liquidity situation.
This is already a lot but it is not large enough to deal with the enormity of the credit freeze Coronavirus has created- as their actions this week reflected. See you tomorrow to go through the even larger actions that have been announced this week.

Posted by: financial matters | Apr 13 2020 14:05 utc | 171

>The upside is my comment on mass testing seems to have
>stimulated a much more polite conversation.
>Posted by: ted01 | Apr 13 2020 12:05 utc | 155
NPR, which I consider to be a major voice of the elite, is just today getting on the test, treat, trace bandwagon. They actually interviewed *two* “experts” promoting this strategy, and no one opposed. In addition Massachusetts nitwits have finally figured out they need to stand up a real contact tracing program and “plan” (as in, they haven’t done it yet) to hire and train a thousand contract tracers. No word on when new contract tracers would actually start tracing. Next week? Next Year? No one asked why didn’t they start this two months ago.
So maybe US Dear Leaders are finally moving to adopt an effective policy now that they have tried everything else and botched it completely. But it won’t work until there are corona sanatoriums for virus-positive people who don’t want to spread it to their families.
I understand why some people suspect the epidemic is intentional, although that is not my conclusion. After all, how can brain-dead nitwit leaders manage to create a policy that both destroys the economy *and* fails to stop the epidemic?
Meanwhile a pork processing plant that represents 5% of national capacity is shut down for at least two weeks.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Apr 13 2020 14:11 utc | 173

@ fairleft | Apr 13 2020 7:40 utc | 127
I cannot blame you at all for telling me to “f#ckoff if u have no substance.” In fact I agree with just about everything you say. Sorry if I caused you any dismay. Usually I pay attention to ‘substance’, but sometimes I get angsty when I see disturbing vague patterns developing. It’s complicated. This “life-death catastrophe the working class and poor are going through” has really been happening for some time now. The virus and the resulting social responses obviously have dialed up that catastrophe quite a lot. We are in dangerous unknown territory now, and this always makes me more sensitive to vague patterns. Good luck to all.

Posted by: blues | Apr 13 2020 14:15 utc | 175

vaccine may actually exist. see “A Viral Pandemic or A Crime Scene?” (unz and or gilad.online)
It’s a long essay and posits some experts’ thoughts both about crime and about practical realities.
Mimics high altitude disease…
“…examine the Ness Ziona Lab will have to figure out how the Israeli institute is already so advanced in the development of a Covid-19 vaccine. According to the Israeli press, a novel corona virus vaccine is already being tested at the institute.
Ness Ziona is not alone at the front of the Corona vaccine race. Migal, another Israeli company, announced at the end of February that it was almost ready with a vaccine. Detectives should ascertain whether Migal, like other laboratories around the world, is a safe environment and that it wasn’t in the Galilee laboratory that a tiny but vicious virus escaped its guardians…”

Posted by: Walter | Apr 13 2020 14:17 utc | 177