Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 05, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-27

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

Failure of government reports are now a genre:

The long delay in the U.S. reaction has led to a urgent need for personal protection equipment. The result is a new 'wild west' where stealing and cheating to get PPE is the new norm:

This makes sense.

Bill Gates is setting up factories to manufacture 7 leading vaccine candidates before we know which is best & safest; we can test the vaccines in parallel, and then throw away all but the factory for the best vaccine. May save many months.
Just extraordinary.

Bill Gates has major experience with viruses since Windows 3.1. But joking aside. The production processes for different types of vaccines vary widely and it usually takes at least six month to get from a fully tested vaccine to the launch of mass production.

Tone deafness:

@EsperDoD @EsperDoD - 16:09 UTC 4 Apr 2020
Modernizing our strategic nuclear forces is a top priority for the @DeptofDefense and the @POTUS to protect the American people and our allies.
Kingston Reif @KingstonAReif - 18:29 UTC - Apr 4 2020
As a pandemic ravages the nation, a sad illustration of wildly misplaced priorities.
Initial FY 2021 budget requests for:
Nuclear weapons ($44.5 billion, +19% over FY 2020)
CDC ($5.5 billion, -18.6%)
NIH ($38.7 billion, -7%)
DoD CTR bio threat reduction (127.4 million, -37%)

---
Other issues:

In March I wrote a piece about toilet seats with a bum shower which are much better than using dead trees to clean ones ass: On Toilet Paper. Three weeks later the New York Times publishes an op-ed that makes the same argument: Stop Using Toilet Paper Why are we hoarding it when experts agree that rinsing with water is more sanitary and environmentally sound?

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on April 5, 2020 at 14:28 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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What South Korea Got Right
https://tinyurl.com/taau6w9

The Korean Playbook for COVID-19 (Translated)
How South Korea did it, direct from the source
https://tinyurl.com/r6vaawa

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 5 2020 23:45 utc | 101

James @71 and c1ue @100

Check Sweden
Total Tests = 36,900
Tests/1M Pop = 3,654

I think the relevant statistic is the second, in which case, they're faring quite badly for their expected standard (ie. - order list by the last column to see other countries (around 40th place in testing), extract:

74,416/1M Pop (Iceland)
10,962/1M Pop (Germany)
8,996/1M Pop (South Korea)
5,306/1M Pop (US)

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Apr 5 2020 23:53 utc | 102

to H. Schmatz - first - yes, I understand what must be a very frustrating situation in spain. I should be clearer about the quarantine: it applies only to areas where there is a high concentration of illness. Thus, five of the wealthy communes in Santiago are under quarantine, as well as some areas which were affected by the cruise ships. Not every community is in quarantine - but there are rules for social distancing, the numbers of people who could be in one place, etc. etc. The curfew is different in that it applies to the entire country. I do think that without doubt Pinera's handling of the "manifestaciones" was a disaster - but I think that the curfew has been effective - if not essential. It does not prevent people from going to work - and it does prevent groups of people out wilding - undoing all the good efforts of people who try to comply and help - and importantly the medical workers. After all, it is disheartening for them to work long hours in stressful even dangerous situations only to have their efforts undermined by drunken party animals and looters. I believe that the curfew will be lifted soon.

I am very interested in your other comment about the protests... while the problems in chile are of long duration and urgently need to be addressed - the horrible pension system, outrageously expensive school systems, transportation expenses and basis income dis-equality - there did indeed seem to be something orchestrated about the protests. For example, 52 Metros stations spread over a very large area completely demolished in just a few hours. That is not students in their little kilts and neckties. I hope you will read this and perhaps elaborate on your perspective.

With best wishes

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Apr 5 2020 23:54 utc | 103

Bonus graphs (infection and deaths) comparing Portugal Germany Netherlands Sweden Finland (incidence per Million). Dates are valid for Portugal, remaining countries date offsets given in legend (negative means delayed in graph). Criteria for aligning outbreak - date of 1st death per 1 million pop. here

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Apr 6 2020 0:08 utc | 104

Petimetr,
The Fed creates that money by buying government debt. The very same bonds that are supposedly the safest investment out there. No, it is not "Backed by gold," but even a gold backed currency is still a promise of some amount of exchange value. An asset backed by a debt.
Consider that the Federal deficit really began with the New Deal, so not only was Roosevelt putting unemployed labor back to work, but unemployed capital, as well.
Then Volcker presumably cured stagflation with higher interest rates, but that made no sense, as it starved capital to those willing to borrow and grow the economy, by starting and building businesses, buying houses, cars, etc. Meanwhile those sitting on piles of excess cash were being paid even more for the privilege. Inflation didn't start to come under control until 82, by which time the debt under Reaganomics topped 200 billion. Consider that the primary method the Fed has to raise interest rates is to sell the debt they bought to create the money in the first place. So the only difference with the Treasury issuing fresh debt is that rather than retiring the money collected, it is spent in ways the private sector never would, because there is no return, like building up the military, but which does create jobs and feeds the money back into the "right" hands.
So the whole issue of "fiat" only obscures what is actually going on. Yes, it is just a voucher system and the government can issue as many as they want, but they are an IOU, a promise by the economy and those managing it, of some value. Now if you make more promises than you can fulfill, yes, they start to lose value and purpose and people lose faith in them and need more of them, ie, inflation.
Which gets to my point. They are an accounting device, when society grows too big to remember who you owe favors to and who owes favors to you. As such, they make a very effective medium of exchange, but not such a good store of value. Remember that blood is a medium, while fat is a store. Roads are a medium, while parking lots are a store. The hallway is a medium, while the hall closet is a store. The average five year old understands the difference, yet Econ 101 says money is both medium of exchange and store of value. Are economists dumb, or have they just been trained to act dumb?

Posted by: John Merryman | Apr 6 2020 0:11 utc | 105

I needed a second opinion on the panicdemic, and this was helpful. Perspectives on the Pandemic-Professor Knut Wittkowski:
Perspectives on the Pandemic

Posted by: Bruce Berry | Apr 6 2020 0:12 utc | 106

Missing graphs link from my post @108.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Apr 6 2020 0:13 utc | 107

SF Bay Area Covid updated April 5
The last census lists a population of over 7 million people in nine counties and 101 cities.
Latest Numbers By County
State Statistics

Alameda county (not including Berkeley)
Positive Cases: 539+29
Deaths: 12 No change

Berkeley No update on weekends
Cases 27 +4
Deaths Zero

Contra Costa County
386 Cases + 79
Deaths 6 -1
Total tested 5240 +747
Hospitalized 31 -1

San Francisco County
Positive cases 568 +71
Deaths 8 +1

San Mateo County
Positive cases 555 +69
Deaths 13

Santa Clara County
1207 Cases +59
Deaths 39

Sonoma County
Active Cases 83
Recovered 23 +2
Deaths 1
Tests 2409 +486

Solono county No update on weekends
Confirmed cases 73
Deaths 1
Active cases 33
Total hospitalizations 22

Marin County
Confirmed cases 141 +10
Deaths 7 +1
Persons tested at County site 1485 +711
Hospitalizations 17 +1

Santa Cruz County
Total cases 69 +10
Tests 794 Negative No change
Hospitalized 9 No change
Deaths 1 No change

Napa County No update on Sunday
Active case 20
Deaths 2

Not much on the news front. Some hospital workers are telling me alternate sites are slow and hospitals are not that busy. They are losing money as their usual work is stopped to stand by for an overflow of patients from the virus.

Posted by: dltravers | Apr 6 2020 0:20 utc | 108

From an article on Grayzone;

"Everyone is focused on trying to contain corona — and naturally this is the right thing to do. But there is a deeper problem here. This is not a singular event. Diseases like this (and possibly worse) will keep popping up with greater and greater frequency, unless we radically change our hyper-industrialization food production to something that respects the limits of our “natural” world."
"This machinery is driven by largest companies in the world: Goldman Sachs, Koch Industries, Cargill, ADM, JBS, DuPont, Monsanto — you can can go down the line. Some names you’ll recognize. Others you wont. But together they might represent the largest concentration of political and economic power in the known universe."

https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/30/china-origin-coronavirus-political-global-usa/#more-22739

Posted by: ben | Apr 6 2020 0:24 utc | 109

vk @88:

Actually "their movement" -- the part of Labour that isn't me-too Toryism -- is beaten, soundly, and so devastatingly that it will never rise again in that party. Which isn't surprising; that movement barely managed to assert itself against Blairism for a few halcyon years.

Time for real Labourites to form their own party, or join the Greens, or something.

Posted by: corvo | Apr 6 2020 0:30 utc | 110

video:
Wild mountain goats take over Welsh town during lockdown

This crisis has a couple of positive effects. One of them is that wild animals sometimes can move more freely. They may even look at the humans sitting in their homes, just like in a zoo, only with reversed roles.
cartoon

A list of other positive effects:
- more 'quality time' for ourselves and for our children. More quality time for families.
- less pollution
- less accidents, less street crimes
- a good time for introspection, hobbies, poetry, dance, music, ...
- less noise
- people appear to be more attentive, more caring, more respectful (at least at my place)
- ...

Posted by: Phil | Apr 6 2020 0:30 utc | 111

@ 82 david f... thanks for the guardian article... that throws more light on it!

@ 100 c1ue.. thanks muchly! you have given greater detail then the guardian article in some respects.. i was curious about how many were being tested.. it seems like a good number, as as the chart you share notes - sweden is somewhere in the middle of the pack, so not sure how this plays out, or if the gov't of sweden decides to put in more stringent measures on isolating... i mostly still have a bad taste in my mouth for the way they were an accomplice to the julian assange crime, so i don't have a lot of regard for sweden on a few levels - at least politically.. thanks for that c1ue!

@ 104 jen.. interesting conjecture.. thanks...

@ 107 info agent... i am not sure anyone here is buying anything at face value... i see you also share my disdain for sweden given the assange crime they've
directly participated in... i am curious what would you do here as a leader of a country?? thanks...

@ 109 john merryman.. economists are like rubber stamps for the empire... none of them seem capable of independent thought.. they buy into all the bullshit pretty well full stop as i read them... definitely can't trust economists! they are one or two rungs down in terms of relevance from the banksters, but essentially rubber stamp all their bs as i see it.. inflation, blah, blah, blah... they seem incapable of independence of thought and think the federal reserve is not the wizard of oz but something to be taken seriously..

Posted by: james | Apr 6 2020 0:33 utc | 112

Victor @93:

Coup in Brazil? Ridiculous, absurd. Why would the Brazilian 1% and its military brass (a subset of that 1%) replace their own guy, unless with someone even worse but maybe with a better-managed image?

Posted by: corvo | Apr 6 2020 0:33 utc | 113

Phil @115:

That's all nice and sweet until the food riots start. And given the number of privately owned firearms in the USA, those food riots won't be pretty.

Posted by: corvo | Apr 6 2020 0:35 utc | 114

@ 113 ben... b linked to that article 5 or 6 days ago in one of his posts... it's a good article and worth reading, so probably good you brought it up again for others who might have missed it!

Posted by: james | Apr 6 2020 0:36 utc | 115

Jen | Apr 5 2020 23:44 utc | 104

I dont know if your intention was to sound this way, but the tone of your comment makes me feel that you think it is because of the immigrants that Sweden is going to have higher death rates. The last part about not wanting to set off the "identity-politics crowds" certainly did not help the tone.

Presumably, there are quite a few Swedish people living in those cities, and as one can see all over the world, anyone living in close proximity to others means that the whole community is at a greater risk, immigrants or not.

Posted by: David F | Apr 6 2020 0:55 utc | 116

George Carlin on American fear of germs

I cannot say that I like Carlin much, but this one is very good. I can associate myself with him, because I also never feared dirt or excrements, always hugged people who said: 'stay away from me, otherwise I will infect you with my disease', and survived in rather good health and shape. And yeah, I also don't shower every day, but keep those spots clean that are important.

Dunning-Kruger Effect

Dunning-Kruger effect. Never heard of it, but I also observed that people who talk much, have very high esteem, post from morning to evening, are often the not so bright ones. Those who speak calmly, and rarely, who often underestimate themselves, are mostly the bright ones. Also worth watching, now that we all have become experts in microbiology (after having become experts in climatology):

Posted by: Phil | Apr 6 2020 0:56 utc | 117

How do i puzzle out the fact that only 12 hundredths of one percent have cv, but the country is shut down. It feels like this is the cytotoken (SP?) storm which causes the death in cv sufferers. Even if we say not all the sick are being counted, it tsill leaves us with a paltry one percent if multipied by 12.
I grew up with a polio suffreer. He wore braces on one leg all his life. Polio was afrightening epidemic for parents, and often locqal pools would close during an outbreak. I believe the shut down is the more frightening, because the financial system is rotted to the core, and we cannot repeat the stupidity of 2008. This problem has been kicked down the road for 12 years, and it has festered, and poisoned the general culture and economy. Let us consider some way we can get back to work, but still protect ourselves from local outbreaks.

Posted by: James joseph | Apr 6 2020 1:04 utc | 118

Michael Droy | Apr 6 2020 0:47 utc | 120

This guy is dangerously nuts. We will be at the 10k by the end of the day, what he said the total number would be if we all just got together and mingled. And he says it would have been over in 4 weeks, and we are only at about week 3. And according to this we are seriously under counting the deaths.

I really wish there was a way for the people who think we are over reacting to go out and try their plan without hurting the rest of us. Then we could see the result, quit all the nonsense bickering, and get busy dealing with the issue.

Posted by: David F | Apr 6 2020 1:17 utc | 119

@124

Oops, hit post too soon. I don't mean that Michael is nuts, but the professor interviewed in link at his post.

Posted by: David F | Apr 6 2020 1:18 utc | 120

David F @ 121:

The issue is that some parts of the large cities like Stockholm, Goteborg and Malmo might be very densely populated and because of the nature of its spread, COVID-19 might affect those parts more drastically. If there are refugees and other immigrant groups in those areas, they are going to be hit hard by this disease. These areas are going to need lots of health workers going in there and testing people, perhaps separating the ones with the disease from the ones at risk.

My intention was never to imply that refugees and/or immigrants brought the disease or are bringing the disease to Sweden. I only intended to suggest that areas where infection rates (and corresponding death rates) might start to rise rapidly would be areas where population density is high. Because refugees and immigrants settle close to where they can keep in contact and access services, they may cluster close enough that the disease not only hits them hard but becomes permanently endemic among them. They are probably going to need more attention than other areas and be affected the most by quarantining, constant testing and other restriction measures.

Homeless people likewise are going to need similar attention if the disease is not to become endemic among them as well.

The issue with identity politics is that if some groups are subjected to more restrictions or fewer as the case may be, and those restrictions can be interpreted as discriminatory or turning those groups into victims, then it becomes not just a hindrance but dangerous to the very people it claims to want to save.

Posted by: Jen | Apr 6 2020 1:26 utc | 121

Posted by: David F | Apr 6 2020 1:18 utc | 125

Oops, hit post too soon. I don't mean that Michael is nuts, but the professor interviewed in link at his post.

Well Michael totally agrees with the professor, therefore he is nuts too.

Posted by: hopehely | Apr 6 2020 1:35 utc | 122

uncle tungsten @ 84

By Queen of Hawaii I assume you mean Gabbard and the comment is pretty far off.

Tulsi bailed on the campaign to come home and help her community. Fortunately in Hawaii we have been doing things somewhat differently with our Lieutenant Governor (who is a doctor) and a couple of politicians like Tulsi (military medical background) doing everything they could to counter the weak response of our Governor and tourism lobby. Tulsi and the Lieutenant Governor have been joined at the hip since she quit her presidential campaign 2 weeks ago and came home. So we will probably be OK, but it took a few leaders who were willing to ignore or even subvert chain of command and do the right thing and shut the islands down. Like the aircraft carrier captain in Guam who went pubic about his superiors risking the health of his sailors by keeping them locked up on a ship full of COVID positives. Times like these show you who has guts/morals and who is a careerist yes-man/woman.

The Dem primary is at this point a meaningless farce. You didnʻt know that from the start? Gabbard made her points which attracted nothing but hysterical slurs from mainstream media outlets and their sycophants. Anyone else take on the war machine? The answer is no. If you want a flawless leader then I suggest visiting your neighborhood religious outlet to find a more perfect entity to worship. Most people in Hawaii are pretty happy with Tulsi and the job sheʻs doing.

Posted by: sad canuck | Apr 6 2020 1:39 utc | 123

Posted by: David F | Apr 6 2020 1:17 utc | 124

I really wish there was a way for the people who think we are over reacting to go out and try their plan without hurting the rest of us. Then we could see the result, quit all the nonsense bickering, and get busy dealing with the issue.

Some of them do. But I doubt that those who post such a nonsense here have balls to do it. Cowards and hypocrites.

Posted by: hopehely | Apr 6 2020 1:47 utc | 124

Jen | Apr 6 2020 1:26 utc | 126

You make some very good points.

hopehely | Apr 6 2020 1:47 utc | 129

I hope he doesn't get sent to prison for two years or get 74 lashes. What he did is stupid, but prison or beating him seems harsh.

Posted by: David F | Apr 6 2020 2:08 utc | 125

further positive effects of the Corona thing:

- cancelling of possibly the largest NATO exercise, precisely timed and located near the Russian border during a Russian festivity. With the clear intent to spoil their festivity. Following the US tradition to hold large maneuvers near North Korea during harvest time, to prevent the North Korean farmers/soldiers to do their real job: harvesting.
- cancellation of the Tokio Olympic games. Which is anyway a circus that we don't really need.
- cancellation of other sports events like football. As a former football player (not professional, but active until age 30) I really welcome the fact that this sometimes insane activity has come to a rest for a moment. It is again something we do not really need, this constant circus about winning and losing. How can one be happy winning if it is only possible to win if someone else must lose? This is a good occasion in this time to think about it.
- cancellation of NAB (film industry), and many other events in the music/electronics industry. No new gear, gadgets, that the world doesn't need anyway.
- change or even cancellation of our daily routine. Tabula Rasa. A clean table. At the right time. Because Spring time is the time for cleaning, reconsideration, planning for the summer time, the future.

The world has come to a rest. This appears to me as something that is beneficial to all of us. Of course there are many negative effects, but I guess that most people will recognise the positive effects at a later time. In short time many articles will be written about positive effects.

Posted by: Phil | Apr 6 2020 2:15 utc | 126

Current MSM headlines for Venezuelan in no particular order.

"President Trump's act of strength in Venezuela shows America's commitment to freedom"
"Trump indictments may save Venezuela from coronavirus and Maduro regime"
"US proposes interim government to break Venezuela deadlock"
"EU backs US plan for Venezuela transitional government"
"Venezuela navy vessel sinks after 'ramming cruise ship'"
"Op-Ed: Can justice for Maduro bring peace to Venezuela?"
"EU backs Venezuela transitional govt"
"Venezuela's only telecoms satellite is lost in space"

Doesn't cover all the shit the Trump admin is pulling like the naval blockade and murder of tanker crews and so forth..
I think when it comes to US vs coronavirus, I'll cheer for coronavirus.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 6 2020 2:20 utc | 127

Al Capone Money Quote saying that being a capitalist is the legitimate racket of those in power – with laws to back it up. Al Capone said:

“Capitalism is the legitimate racket of the ruling class.”

https://itsamoneything.com/money/wp-content/uploads/Al-Capone-Capitalism-Ruling-Class-Racket.jpg

Posted by: Mao | Apr 6 2020 2:25 utc | 128

US death toll of COVID-19 tops 1,200 in last 24 hours, says Johns Hopkins:

https://www.shine.cn/news/world/2004065786/

China reports 38 migrated cases of COVID-19, one death:

China reports 38 migrated cases of COVID-19, one death

Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 6 2020 2:30 utc | 129

I tried this question at Consortium News and did not pass moderation (confused about that):

Why are we encountering these (corona) viruses now and why from these locations (China and Middle East - they did not mention Ebola and countries in Africa)?

Apart from that, its starting to hit the fan here in New York City area. Several people I know feel they may have had virus, experiencing unusual "symptoms" one family member somewhat serious. Generally no point in getting tested unless becomes serious.

Posted by: jared | Apr 6 2020 2:37 utc | 130

@130 I suppose he wants to show how deeply he believes. A lot of people are going to have to reevaluate their religious beliefs because of this crisis. And that includes orthodox Jews and US pastors.

Posted by: dh | Apr 6 2020 2:37 utc | 131

Posted by: Michael Droy | Apr 6 2020 0:47 utc | 120 ...he says best get it done with quick and open up schools.

"Getting it done with quick" is what a total lockdown is all about. You get the thing *under control*, *then* open up and play a "dance" - as the Pueyo articles state - between continuing normal business while *still* monitoring the situation to catch any local outbreaks.

These people who talk about dropping the social distancing and opening up everything in two weeks are people with agendas, as I've said. Either they're people who are irritated at being inconvenienced by people other than themselves dying (including kids with respirator problems, as he makes clear with his "open up the schools"), or they are concerned about their stock portfolios, or they are concerned about losing their jobs due to the economic effects. The latter is understandable if one is going to be unemployed and can't afford to be. Everyone else is an asshole.

That's fine if you're willing to admit it. But these assholes aren't - they hide their real agenda behind a lot of bullshit and fake statistics and bullcrap computer models. Own up or shut up.

And I say that as someone who despises most of the human race and wouldn't mind seeing most people drop dead tomorrow from just about anything (with two exceptions: hot babes, and people doing truly useful work in science and technology.)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 6 2020 2:38 utc | 132

San Francisco County
Positive cases 568 +71
Deaths 8 +1

I see cases and deaths are finally starting to climb, albeit still slowly.

We sat on 5 deaths I think for *days*. Then slowly started getting 1 a day. I suspect this will start to grow faster. I reiterate that something is wrong when tons of deaths are in a lot of counties around us, but only a handful in San Francisco. I wonder if there is some counting malarky going on.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 6 2020 2:43 utc | 133

I see the bunny's hysteria about cures has now reached the point of favouring that old snake-oil homeopathy. The amount of quinine in tonic water is about the same strength as the 'fixes ' found in homeopathic scams.
Perhaps like such well worn scams as 'rescue remedy, a cure depends on how many thousand times my schweppes has been 'knocked' (diluted with water).

I don't care I've found my cure, while rooting around in the cupboard under the bathroom sink a found a few packets of decades past their use-by date worming tablets. When the kids were infants we were living in tropical Northern Australia and it was common to 'worm' the young 'uns whenever they seemed listless. You sure knew if the kids had picked up worms because if they had, they would be running around & hooting like mad things after their dose.
They must have traveled to Aotearoa in one of the too many first aid kits I packed before we left. Anyway the active ingredient in the tablets is an anti-parasitical called ivermectin which it is claimed (most likely by some dodgy vet who isn't copping his regular earn pretending to swab the horses at the local racetrack) will destroy that pesky corona virus.
As I die I can rest easy knowing that at least I was scammed by an ocker.
Honestly this senseless and repetitive "I'm smarter than any virologist/epidemiologist" game has gotten very fucking boring - aside from the fact some idjit may be stupid enough to put their faith in some unproven remedy.
There will always be alleged proof since the placebo effect works about 8% of the time, but nothing can possibly be considered a proven cure until it has been put through that tiresome and allegedly 'far too slow" comprehensive testing.

This nonsense too many are spouting round here is dangerous and if there is to be censorship at MoA, that is what I would like to see curtailed.

Posted by: A User | Apr 6 2020 2:48 utc | 134

This may be of some value for people who don't comprehend what happened in South Korea...

What South Korea Got Right
https://tinyurl.com/taau6w9

The Korean Playbook for COVID-19 (Translated)
How South Korea did it, direct from the source
https://tinyurl.com/r6vaawa

Quote:
Korea is notable that they didn’t lock down anything, they just managed it. People point to this and say ‘look, we can keep our economy open’ but no. You are the grasshopper and they are the ant. Unless you’ve been preparing for decades, you’re going to have to shut it down to just buy time for the prep work.
End Quote

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 6 2020 2:51 utc | 135

Richard 138
If only 1percent of society is adversely affected by cv 19, do you still want to close doen the entire bloody countrY?
Granted, an epidemic has to be defeated, but it is in the isolated locals where the fight is best applied. Yes, close the borders, or force 14 day quarentine for all visitors. Whats the big deal? I zoom with my family...why can’t no contact business be designed.

Posted by: James joseph | Apr 6 2020 2:55 utc | 136

Mao | Apr 6 2020 2:21 utc | 133

This is despicable, the video was clearly edited to take a part of a sentence out of context. I don't like bill gates, he gives me plenty of reasons without making up lies.

"We don’t want to have a lot of recovered people […] To be clear, we’re trying – through the shut-down in the United States – to not get to one percent of the population infected." That is how they quoted it.

It should have been like this is they weren't lying their asses off
"... we don’t want to have a lot of recovered people, to be clear, we’re trying – through the shut-down in the United States – to not get to one percent of the population infected."

With the initial ... the part of the sentence that they edited out to leave us with a nefarious sounding quote. You should be ashamed of yourself for even sharing that link.

Posted by: David F | Apr 6 2020 2:56 utc | 137

Richard Steven Hack @ 139

The county with the most deaths is where the Google campus lies as well as some other high tech firms. Having worked there I can tell you there is a large presence of Asians coming and going from overseas. In addition to that Chinese intelligence works the area rather heavily so I am not surprised that the count is high as they got hit hard first.

That begs the question about the large Chinese population in SF. You would think the numbers would be higher in SF. SF has been very aggressive about containing the virus. It could be the Chinese community has a better understanding of how to knock down the virus because they can understand and interpret the videos coming out of China.

My Chinese friend tell me the Wuhan market was disgusting. They boil dogs and other animals alive. They say the some of the food consumed there was disgusting and they have no doubt that the virus came out of there naturally based on diet.

All shots in the dark more or less. Who really knows? All we can go by is what is presented to us.

Posted by: dltravers | Apr 6 2020 2:59 utc | 138

Phil | Apr 6 2020 2:15 utc | 131

Thanks for this and your previous one Phil. For me I would add long bike rides 3 or 4 times a week, and a lot more time for meditation.

Posted by: David F | Apr 6 2020 3:05 utc | 139

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/covid-military-shortage-pandemic/

Despite President Trump’s repeated assertions that the Covid-19 epidemic was “unforeseen” and “came out of nowhere,” the Pentagon was well aware of not just the threat of a novel influenza, but even anticipated the consequent scarcity of ventilators, face masks, and hospital beds, according to a 2017 Pentagon plan obtained by The Nation.

“The most likely and significant threat is a novel respiratory disease, particularly a novel influenza disease,” the military plan states. Covid-19 is a respiratory disease caused by the novel (meaning new to humans) coronavirus. The document specifically references coronavirus on several occasions, in one instance saying, “Coronavirus infections [are] common around the world.”

https://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/covid-screenshot-1.png

Posted by: Mao | Apr 6 2020 3:30 utc | 140

>> Most people in Hawaii are pretty happy with Tulsi and the job sheʻs doing.

At various times, Trump and Pelosi can say the same thing.

>> If you want a flawless leader

This straw man looks a little tired, Canuck. Would you please stuff some more straw in it?

Posted by: oglalla | Apr 6 2020 3:36 utc | 141

Although I try to read as many comments as I can, I don't have to read them all to know that this comment written by

frances @31 is the most ignorant of all.

200,000 people die in the US with COVID-19 out of a population of 330 million people that is 0.06% of the population. That is to say a six hundredths of a percent chance of dying from the virus. Destroying the economy and losing our rights for a 0.06% chance of dying is not reasonable.

And worldwide, Covid-19 Worldwide deaths as of April 4th, 64,518 divided by 7,000,000,000 world population. = 9.21 millionths of one percent. Corona virus, Covid-19, is IMO an orchestrated hysteria.

Have you ever been in a hospital for an extended length of time?

Those figures are the result with shelter in place orders in place!

If social distancing and stay at home orders would not have been implemented we'd be looking at MILLIONS of deaths worldwide.

There would be countless deaths and burnout among healthcare workers and emergency personnel and a complete collapse of healthcare systems worldwide.

You remind me of the woman who claims she's not worried about the virus cause she's covered in the blood of Jesus.

Guess Trump never got the memo from his Christian base that Jesus' blood gives you Covid immunity or he wouldn't have ordered 29 million doses of hydroxychloroquine.

Meanwhile, in a town in northern Italy, where people are quite religious, they're burying a person dead from Covid-19 every hour, and with total lockdown for a month.

Maybe try volunteering for a month with a hospital in the middle of an outbreak of Coronavirus, and then get back to me on your orchestrated hysteria.

The nerve.🤨 Totally clueless.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 6 2020 4:30 utc | 142

Jen #100

Living close together in ghettoes is likely a major vulnerability. This would be aggravated in conditions of poor sanitation and dire lack of disposable income. Where detergents and frequent hand wash is not an automatic practice there will many outbreaks of disease of minor and major types. These localities will be known to medical practitioners and epidemiological studies in some countries.

I see that there are reports at MoA that blood type is a factor as well so, given what is now known, most medical planners working close to epidemiologists could identify 'at risk' ghettoes and cultural enclaves with a focussed response mechanism.

It will be interesting to see how the Gypsy groups (broad grouptype) and Basque (predominantly RH-ve) fare in this onslaught and their blood group cohort.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 6 2020 4:42 utc | 143

Trump and his administration of neo-confederates are even stealing ventilators paid for by tiny Barbados. Degenerate Murikkkans making america great and showing the world why they're #1. When the dust settles after Covid-19, exceptionals will stand alone on a shining pile of sh*t !
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/US-Seizes-Ventilators-Destined-For-Barbados-20200405-0009.html?fbclid=IwAR0IjsyuRXn0D8sF22mI_SGoGmNDI4-_gJA4Ci9lAyWS7lwvyVz0oRPBoZg

Posted by: Sol Invictus | Apr 6 2020 4:43 utc | 144

Something, something, about Sweden testing and Tests/1M population more relevant than Total tests, and well bellow standard standing against mentioned countries in posts @71 and @100. Also link for worldometer site and order by last column in main page.

(Somehow my previous 2 attempts at engaging that issue went into the blackhole.)

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Apr 6 2020 4:43 utc | 145

Phil @ 110; Thanks for the goat video, and the cartoon. Needed that bit of levity, a total case of role reversal..

Posted by: ben | Apr 6 2020 4:49 utc | 146

@all - made another sweep and brushed out some crackpots. Numbering will be affected.

Posted by: b | Apr 6 2020 4:57 utc | 147

Posted by: dltravers | Apr 6 2020 2:59 utc | 140 It could be the Chinese community has a better understanding of how to knock down the virus because they can understand and interpret the videos coming out of China.

I suppose that's possible. But still, out of over 800,000 people in a pretty small county (which is mostly city), you'd think the cases (and deaths) would be higher than counties with 25-50% less population.

According to SF Gate 8 years ago:

35.8 percent Asian Americans, up from 32.6 percent 10 years ago. The largest subgroup by far is of Chinese descent, at 21.4 percent. The city's white population is 48.5 percent; Latinos are at 15.1 percent; and African Americans constitute 7.2 percent.

With that distribution I'd really expect more cases in the Asian community. As in Chicago, the African-American demo should be hard hit, and probably much of the Latinos, at least at some point.

Another possibility is that the Asian community is being undercounted due to a historical Asian suspicion of associating with white authority. I've no idea whether that is still a factor. Presumably it wouldn't apply in deaths, but perhaps it's a factor in whether Asians go to the hospital before or even after shortness of breath problems.

Well, took a look... Looks like it still is a factor (at least from the white side)...This is from Channel 7 (ABC) three days ago:

Race and Coronavirus: San Francisco Bay Area residents share their stories of hate and new solutions
https://tinyurl.com/ruz936y

There's a ton of articles from the Bay Area and around the country (and even in other countries) about a large increase in anti-Chinese hate crimes. Partly thanks to Trump's constant referral to the virus as "Chinese virus."

It will be interesting to see where the case and death numbers peak over the next couple months.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 6 2020 4:59 utc | 148

Uncle Tungsten @ 145:

Yes there was a study done in China the results of which suggested that people with blood group A were at higher risk of needing hospitalisation if they were infected with COVID-19 compared to people with blood group O. The research was done on three groups of patients in two hospitals in Wuhan and one hospital in Shenzhen, and those groups may not be representative of Chinese people as a whole. The research did not study people who had COVID-19 but who did not need hospitalisation.

Not many people in China are RH-negative so the results of the study may not be applicable to Basque people.

The interesting thing about Romany (gypsy) people is that their culture emphasises very strict observance of hygiene and purity laws which among other things limits their contacts with people not related to them. Maintaining social distance from strangers, washing hands and keeping "non-polluted" and "polluted" things apart would be second nature to them!

Posted by: Jen | Apr 6 2020 5:13 utc | 149

Posted by: James joseph | Apr 6 2020 2:55 utc | 137 Richard 138

"If only 1 percent of society is adversely affected by cv 19, do you still want to close doen the entire bloody countrY?"

You clearly don't get the picture - or don't care to. Go read Tomas Pueyo's articles referenced by B.

First, the entire country is *not* shut down. Second, the harder you shut down for a short period, the better the economy recovers. And in any event, the economy *will* recover within a few years. So it boils down: You people don't want to lose your jobs, or you don't want to see your stock suffer, or you simply don't like being inconvenienced, as I said above.

It's interesting to me that people who are afraid of the economic effects of a shutdown don't mind arguing for people being sacrificed for the good of the economy. But when it's the weakness in the economy *in the first place* that will cause a longer term shutdown's more serious effects in the next couple years - in the same way that "co-morbidity" causes people to be vulnerable to the virus - they don't want to discuss that issue.

"Granted, an epidemic has to be defeated, but it is in the isolated locals where the fight is best applied."

What the hell does "isolated locals" mean? This is a *pandemic*. Which means 40-70% of the population *will* be infected absent isolation measures. If you are referring to those who are most vulnerable and most likely to die, that means you'd prefer three million elderly and children and adults with respiratory problems (your 1 percent) die so that you can not be inconvenienced or maybe lose your job.

Like I said above, either admit your *real* agenda or piss off.

"why can’t no contact business be designed."

You don't "re-design" business overnight. Are you seriously suggesting the US convert to "no-contact business." Or are you just babbling nonsense to win an argument?

Go read the article posted above on how South Korea contained the virus. South Korea was able to contain the outbreak because *they were ready for it.* The US was - and is - *not*.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 6 2020 5:15 utc | 150

Article from the Scientist that covers the virus's effects on the nervous system.

"The symptoms suggest SARS-CoV-2 might infect neurons, raising questions about whether there could be effects on the brain that play a role in patients’ deaths, but the data are preliminary."

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/lost-smell-and-taste-hint-covid-19-can-target-the-nervous-system-67312#.XoEJQMWHbSo.twitter

No wonder Boris didn't notice the shit storm going on around him. He had likely already lost his sense of smell.

Posted by: Tom | Apr 6 2020 5:50 utc | 151


How Santa Clara County is handling the homeless, as compared with San Francisco's "do next to nothing" approach:

Santa Clara Temporary COVID-19 Treatment Center Sees First Patients
https://tinyurl.com/tf6tjo4

Note: The converted convention center has 250 beds, plus supplies and medicines *delivered by the National Guard* [My Emphasis], to serve patients with less-acute COVID-19 symptoms. This will free up hospital beds to treat more seriously ill patients.

Also: Santa Clara County is also working with businesses such as hotels to establish additional care locations and options for vulnerable populations, with sites secured in San Jose, Santa Clara and Gilroy to shelter and isolate homeless individuals, health officials said in a statement.

Coronavirus forces San Francisco to put homeless into hotels
https://tinyurl.com/sqvvjrs

Quote: The hotels may additionally house high-risk individuals among the 19,000 people living in single-room occupancy (SRO) buildings with shared kitchens and bathrooms who similarly cannot self-isolate."

I don't know what that means. If they plan to move me into a hotel room, they can kiss that idea good-bye - unless I still get Internet service! Otherwise I wouldn't mind having a nice room for a change. But I doubt I'll be considered as I don't require any support from the counselors here. But there are people in this building who probably should be isolated for their own health reasons. We have a woman downstairs who hacks and coughs all day and all night for some reason (another resident told me drugs) - if she gets this virus, she's dead meat.

There was a program here last year called the Moving On Initiative. It was intended to lease one bedroom apartments to people like me who don't need serious support in the SROs or other supported housing, so as to move people who *do* need support off the streets into the SROs. This program was tried in New York and Los Angeles and was considered a success.

So naturally it was stopped in San Francisco. I'm not sure why, but the presumption is the landlords got together and killed it.

Quote: Progressive San Francisco lawmakers want to triple the number of rooms to 14,000, enough to shelter all of the homeless and some additional people from the SRO buildings.

If they can actually do that, they might actually be able to address the problem sufficiently. But then there's the question of who's going to move these people? Cops? National Guard? And how can they move any significant number of the 17,000 homeless *and* any significant percentage of the 19,000 SRO people into only 14,000 rooms? Assuming they actually *get* those 14,000 rooms...

And there's this quote: The hotel industry has asked city leaders how housing the homeless would work, including issues on potential property damage and whether California laws could give homeless guests tenancy rights after 30-day stays.

Yeah, baby - 'cause you *are* gonna get one hell of a lot of property damage! LOL Plugged toilets alone will keep your janitors working 24x7 - I know from experience in my building. I have to unplug the toilets *myself* at least every couple days, if not daily. Had to do it today, in fact.

Quote: In San Francisco’s central Tenderloin neighborhood, tent encampments still lined the streets after city officials issued stay-home orders on starting March 17.

Yup. Like I've been saying.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 6 2020 5:51 utc | 152

Another article from two days ago about the State's approach.

Nearly 900 placed into hotels, motels — a fraction of California’s homeless
https://tinyurl.com/ss2tn5b

The placement of nearly 900 homeless people amounts to less than 1% of the state’s homeless population of at least 150,000 — the largest in the country. It’s possible that the number of homeless people placed in hotels and motels could be higher since Newsom’s figure doesn’t include individuals relocated by county health and social workers.

Some homelessness advocates have been frustrated with the speed at which state and local governments have responded. Even after a lease is agreed upon, it can take days or weeks for people living on the streets or crowded shelters to occupy rooms.

But then there's this:


Under a cost-sharing agreement, FEMA will fund 75% of hotel leases. Only homeless people who test positive for the virus, exhibit symptoms, or are particularly susceptible to the virus because of their age or underlying health conditions will be allowed in hotel rooms for which the federal government is paying.

This means a significant percentage is likely to still be on the streets - where they may well develop symptoms later and will continue to not follow social distancing. Also, to determine their susceptibility due to "underlying conditions" will take resources away from treating those who already have symptoms.

Another article I just read pointed something out: If you test someone in a homeless camp that has the virus, and then you move the rest of those people somewhere else - if they're not completely isolated, they will spread the virus. It's better to let them stay together because they already are at risk.

I'm not sure I agree with that approach. However, it makes sense that unless you *can* guarantee isolation, spreading people who are already exposed around is not a good idea. This is not what "isolating and tracing" is supposed to do. You are supposed to "isolate" but *insure support* for the isolated. I don't see how the state (or any state) can guarantee support for the isolated homeless without having a real plan for that.

In the article on South Korea I linked to above, South Korea *did* have a support network set up for the isolated. I'm not sure the US is capable of that.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 6 2020 6:11 utc | 153

Aaaarrrgggg... Another article disappears... Forgot to save it first... Posting too many posts too soon, so the site makes them disappear, assuming they're spam...

Maybe I'll post it tomorrow if I remember...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 6 2020 6:14 utc | 154

Oops...there it is...it came back...I must have refreshed the page too soon... Ignore this.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 6 2020 6:15 utc | 155

oglalla @ 141

I never mentioned or voiced any support for Trump or Pelosi, and speaking of straw, you probably don't even realize that your response is a textbook example of a straw man argument which involves refuting an argument that was not actually presented. Well done.

I live in Hawaii and know what my neighbors think. I'm glad Gabbard is back here and making a difference instead of wasting more time on the pointless theatre of the DNC. I don't like the Biden support but name one serious candidate who fought the MIC these primaries or got 5% of the MSM hostility that Gabbard took. That would be no one. Your disappointment is of no concern to the people of Hawaii.

Like I've said before. I'll wait to hear about the Biden issue from the candidate herself before breaking out the tar and feathers. Right now she's got more important things to do that satisfying random bloggers.

Posted by: sad canuck | Apr 6 2020 7:22 utc | 156

Boris Johnson being hospitalized 10 days after diagnosis seems like the average time for those who require hospitalization.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 6 2020 7:33 utc | 157

C1ue @91: why the exponential growth observed now if the virus has been around for months? The numbers you see reported is cased discovered by testing. Testing is what ramps up exponentially now. The % of tested people showing the virus is only very mildly growing. In other words, the underlying base of infected is large and relatively stable as part of the total population. The more you test, the more you find.

Tom @151: "covid causing nerve damage" . That's conjecture stemming from the fact that all test-positive deceased are declared covid victims, including those without symptoms. Rather than state the correct cause of death for almost all those deaths (old age - average age 81 of corona deaths in Italy, 99% with one or multiple chronic diseases, dehydration of care patients whose staff ran back to their Eastern European homes under the panic of border closures, hospitals overwhelmed like every flu winter and now compounded by panic, doctors stuck at home looking after their children), new unseen ways of covid killing are invented.

Posted by: Leser | Apr 6 2020 8:07 utc | 158

dltravers | Apr 6 2020 2:59 utc | 138:

It would be interesting to know if the Wuhan residents have changed their behavior when all this is finally over.

Posted by: Ian2 | Apr 6 2020 8:12 utc | 159

sad canuck #123

I am fine with Tulsi bailing out for her community and that is precisely the most sincere thing to do. I applaud that move.

Endorsing Biden at any time? NO WAY> that man is a republican in drag, a scumbag in a suit, a thief in in a cassock,a creep in the vestry, a carpetbagger backing fascist Ukraine and stealing from their people. He and his decrepit son stole the USA and IMF loans and left the Ukrainian people to pay them off. She endorsed that shit.

Silence would have been the appropriate action and tactically correct until after the Convention if she was politically intent to await the process between the B and the B.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 6 2020 8:32 utc | 160

Jen #149

Thanks for that data. Very pleased to hear of the Romany practices. Extraordinary people and long may they live.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 6 2020 8:36 utc | 161

It would be interesting to know if the Wuhan residents have changed their behavior when all this is finally over.

Posted by: Ian2 | Apr 6 2020 8:12 utc | 159

'We were trapped for too long': coming back to life after lockdown in Wuhan

Posted by: Laguerre | Apr 6 2020 8:47 utc | 162

As per the BBC 'PM still in charge while in hospital'
and you still call it a democracy?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52180223

Someone linked to this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg
it is a must see!

No one is saying that the elderly and the fragile people should not be sheltered, fed, cared for in such a situation.
But the current anti-democratic measures are counter productive;
it just seem that part of the EU/US model of 'freedom' is the freedom to travel anywhere infect people, and that to prevent that they have to impose a total lockdown.

Posted by: Mina | Apr 6 2020 8:48 utc | 163

Back in 2017 at forum on pandemic preparedness at Georgetown University Dr. Fauci made an interesting statement. Fauci told the audience the Trump administration will not only be challenged by ongoing global health threats such as influenza and HIV, but also a surprise disease outbreak.

That was quite a prediction considering it was back in 2017!

https://static.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/dr-fauci-surprise-outbreak.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C95ECjxgcJE

Posted by: Mao | Apr 6 2020 8:51 utc | 164

Quinine war continues (maybe not exactly as described, though)
from the cnn live
"India has placed a blanket ban on all exports of hydroxychloroquine, just as President Donald Trump called on Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi to release more of the drug to the United States.

In an official notification issued Saturday, India's Ministry of Commerce and Industry amended a previous order issued last month and effectively banned all export of the drug. It is unclear whether the export ban was made before or after Trump and Modi spoke in a telephone call on Saturday.

“The export of Hydroxychloroquine and formulations made from Hydroxychloroquine, therefore, shall remain prohibited, without any exception,” stated the notification."

Posted by: Mina | Apr 6 2020 8:58 utc | 165

As per the BBC 'PM still in charge while in hospital'
and you still call it a democracy?

Posted by: Mina | Apr 6 2020 8:48 utc | 163

I don't think anybody thinks Johnson is interested in democracy. It was he who suspended parliament for a month last autumn (prorogation), when the MPs were getting a bit too independent, and the Supreme Court had to declare the suspension illegal. He's since frequently absented himself for weeks on end, while both healthy and sick. Personally, I don't think he'll last too long as PM, either living or dead, as he's not willing to actually do the job.

Posted by: Laguerre | Apr 6 2020 9:51 utc | 166

Mao @166

Maybe watch this video & it may provide a little understanding as to why hospitals appear to be deserted.
The film crew go to two Italian hospitals that are completely deserted on the outside, but inside the ICU areas the reality is different.

Into The Red Zone

Posted by: ted01 | Apr 6 2020 10:44 utc | 167

The local hospital is pretty quiet. All non-urgent cases have to wait. A huge effort has been made to separate off all corona handling from the rest of the hospital and to maximize corona capacity. This is about preparedness because due to the lockdown half of the maximum capacity in the country is being used and it is stabilizing at that amount. Registered cases are about 2/1000 . Actual cases could be 10 times that. The epidemic is under control. In uncontrolled scenario this would grow to maybe 50 times higher.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 6 2020 11:04 utc | 168

In my opinion, we should call it "how to prevent Brexit and accelerate the integration process of the EU within the US"...

Posted by: Mina | Apr 6 2020 11:24 utc | 169

dltravers @138

Permanent/long term expats are usually not your best source of information about a country. Being informed of something concerning China by a Chinese-American friend isn't necessarily authoritative. Consider someone in China asking an expat from New England about eating habits in Mississippi: "It's disgusting! They eat opossums! Road kill raccoons that they find on the side of the highway! Raccoon balloons! People from America's South are filthy!"

Perhaps people in America's South do not always eat road kill, but people from other parts of the US believe they do. You have the same kinds of beliefs in China about peoples in different regions.

Anyway, here is what the insufferably jingoistic and national chauvinistic Washington Bezos Post has to say about China's wet markets reopening: "The prevalence of food-borne microbial illness in developing East Asia suggests that far from being cesspits of disease, wet markets do a good job of providing households with clean, fresh produce."

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 6 2020 11:29 utc | 170

Alistair Crooke takes on Dostoyevsky's Grand Inquisitor:

Eyes Wide Open: Will the ‘Masters of the Universe’ Notice No One Takes Them Seriously Anymore?

Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 6 2020 12:23 utc | 171

Mina @ 163
Having watched your second link —- knut wittkowski
He ‘seems’ genuine, as a total layman he comes over as very knowledgable.
But my red light warning is flashing ! on so many levels.
He may be an expert on natural virus but how about a designed weaponised new virus ?
Scientists live in a very insular bubble, detached from political agendas! (example..nuclear) his knowledge can be exploited by the wrong people using him to add plausibility to the nefarious ends ! ie Eugenics
- - -
This disease could have been contained. Kept out of our country’s. This deliberately not done. The lack of testing is deliberate. The restriction of quinine is deliberate. The lack of protective gear is deliberate!
So this man is sadly not ‘light at the end of the tunnel’
But just another niave inocent, one of oh so many we see victems of the depraved elite. Sorry


Posted by: Mark2 | Apr 6 2020 12:34 utc | 172

Mark, precisely, what he says is "protect the elderly and the fragile persons" (that includes homeless ppl, migrants, a lot of poor which no one wants to hear about these days) + he says "resist!" and "question your politicians" .. This does not sound superfluous to me.

The first time I saw Fauci, a month ago or a little more, he immediately made me think to Al Pacino in Scorcese's latest film 'The Irishman'... Just sayin'
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/05/politics/white-house-malaria-drug-hydroxychloroquine-disagreement/index.html

There is clearly a very big fight over where to go next. No doubt that some ppl (Gates, Google..) see it as a unique opportunity to implement chips, tracking, etc.

Posted by: Mina | Apr 6 2020 12:53 utc | 173

i think everyone is watching the experiment in sweden, but i am curious how much testing they are doing???
Posted by: james | Apr 5 2020 22:21 utc | 70

At the worldometers site you can reorder the data according to any column of your choice, which can be quite interesting. But the problem I think is that most of the data out there is of pretty low quality/value. What is desperately needed is lots of random (but carefully balanced) testing to find out what the base level of Covid in the population is. Only with that information can you give reliable meaning to the data that is being bandied about - I think the powers that be are discouraging such investigations because it interferes with their scaremongering tactics. The result is that the media can publish outrageously unbalanced articles and they are less easy to discredit. Without knowing how prevalent the virus is (asymptomatic cases and symptomatic cases that are too mild to be noticed) in society as a whole, the whole statistics get seriously distorted. The only possible result is misinformation and deception.

Another important point is that a simple statistic of how many tests are being done is beside the point - what matters is that WHO is being tested, how they are connected with potential cases, and how contacts are being traced. Intricately and necessarily linked with that is the isolation of communities and the converse question of to what extent testing and tracing are used to determine who needs to be isolated. Those three tools - tracing, testing, and isolating - are and must be inextricably linked, and planned as a triad. They cannot be separated. If they are separated all three become useless (and even dangerous, in the case of the isolating, because of the dangerous secondary effects). That is why China was so successful - because they had fantastic methods of tracing contacts, and used that to make optimal use of (initially) limited testing, and avoided excessive isolating. In China as I understood isolating was relatively relaxed except where conditions necessitated that it be strict, and even then the strictness was proportionate to the problem.

Mark2 posted an interesting article in the Lancet (or BMJ?) recently - a proposal to introduce weekly testing of the entire UK population - instead of trying to get so-called vaccines (I say so-called because in my opinion vaccines are no solution at all, and have more negative value than positive value, as long as they are on the existing Big Pharma model). The proposal as I say was interesting, and in my view an excellent approach, but again it could only work if fully integrated with local community monitoring and contact tracing of positive cases (which of course was an integral part of the proposal).

Coming back to Sweden: if you play around with the worldometer data by sorting according to different columns, you find that Sweden comes substantially higher in the list (when ordered worst from the top) with respect to deaths per million population, compared to other factors like total cases, total deaths, cases per million, total tests, etc etc. That superficially does not look good for Sweden. However as I pointed out previously the virus is highly temperature dependent, and Sweden is a cold country. What happens today is dependent in large measure on temperatures significantly earlier - not just because of the delay between infection and symptoms/potential death, but also because of the exponential change over time. Therefore Sweden is not a fair comparison with warmer countries - Norway or Finland would be fairer (but statistically less reliably because the numbers are reuduced). In any event Sweden in February is still cold, and cold means an environment in which Covid best thrives. On the other hand there is a large chance element in what infection contacts arrive and how they are propagated, who takes good precautions and who not. Therefore any comparison between countries is suspect unless the effect is very strong.

(By the way James, thanks for responding to that comment of mine a few days ago, I appreciated it even though I didn't mention it at the time because of reading on a mobile!)

Posted by: BM | Apr 6 2020 13:02 utc | 174

"...Living close together in ghettoes is likely a major vulnerability. This would be aggravated in conditions of poor sanitation and dire lack of disposable income. Where detergents and frequent hand wash is not an automatic practice there will many outbreaks of disease of minor and major types..."
uncle tungsten@143

Incredibly, the work of cutting off water supplies to those unable to pay their utility bills continues in the United States. Large numbers of the very poorest people in the country-many of whose water is laced with lead- have no means of washing because their supply of water is cut off.
As Alistair Crooke-see Bemildred's link above- notes "...Empathy during the pandemic – there was none. (Recall the comments how Covid-19 striking down Hubei would be good for America). Solidarity – there was none (at least from the EU, to be sure); Leadership – there was none, yet semi-legal corruption – abundant..."
The mask, which has long been slipping, is almost gone: and nothing shows this more graphically than the way that the psycho foreign policy cabal in DC has seized upon this crisis to squeeze Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua and Iran with more sanctions and attacks. Nor is it any excuse that they are inspired by the steps that Israel is taking to turn the pandemic into a genocide of Palestinians.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 6 2020 13:08 utc | 175

Daniel Lazare lays it out very well on the Teddy Roosevelt fiasco and Pentagon wonks in denial:

Imperialism in Denial

But Crozier’s message was not only that the Navy faces a huge problem in terms of disease control. Implicitly, it was that the entire U.S. war machine is effectively inoperable. The military could still “fight sick” in an emergency. But since no emergency exists, its only realistic option is to shut down until the pandemic is under control. Otherwise, the military infection rate will continue to climb, spelling disaster for every civilian population the military comes in contact with.

---

The insanity was on full display at an Apr. 1 press conference announcing the White House’s latest military offensive against Venezuela. Trump was his usual Mussolini-esque self while Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, a former Raytheon lobbyist, was the perfect image of a self-serving careerist whose only concern is winning his next promotion. “At a time when the nation and the department of defense are focused on protecting the American people from the spread of the coronavirus,” he began, “we also remain vigilant to the many other threats our country faces. Today, at the president’s direction, the department of defense, in close cooperation with our interagency partners, began enhanced counter-narcotics operations in the eastern Pacific Ocean and the Caribbean Sea. This initiative is part of the administration’s whole-of-government approach to combating the flow of illicit drugs into the United States and protecting the American people from their scourge….

Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 6 2020 13:42 utc | 176

Information Agent @175
He’s likely changed his mind because of new information coming in. In London, three weeks ago there were more sceptics but by now most of us know at least one friend who has had to go onto a ventilator. It does tend to concentrate the mind a bit. I saw a most impressive interview with the senior doctor responsible for the virus in South Korea who makes the point that South Korea has been able to cope with it because it is - I think - the third new virus they have had to cope with in the last few years, so they have the kit and they have the experience. We don’t.

Posted by: Montreal | Apr 6 2020 13:54 utc | 177

In re what to do....and especially if you are a fishing person...
Karlof1 may enjoy.


Larson cartoon> tinyurl[dot]com/rzwed6g

Peter L did a good job on the quarantine edition to-day, but ignored the elephant.The professorial L seems to like this QED style.

empire files does not ignore the elephant. Neither did Comrade Texas.
tinyurl[dot]com/s2d3mce

Posted by: Walter | Apr 6 2020 14:00 utc | 178

@13 Posted by: John Merryman | Apr 5 2020 15:47 utc | 13
@16 #13 Posted by: c1ue | Apr 5 2020 16:27 utc | 16
@16 #13 Posted by: james | Apr 5 2020 16:32 utc | 17

"While we see it as a form of commodity, money is a glorified voucher system and functions as a contract between the individual and the community." - not feeling you there.

"You can have the most expensive car on the road, but you still don't own the road. There is a need for both public and private functions in society and they need to be sorted out, not just pushed to one side, or the other." - Bulls ear, Catnip.

Your point is generally good (IMO) and fairly brief for which my simple mind thanks you greatly.
I think there are some gaps in the logic - as my father used to say you (in effect) you cite the "facts" which support your assumption (I hated when he said that, we all do it).

The "one side, or the other" is exactly the issue. For the sake of the public which is occupied with other matters, the intelligentsia must break it down into simple binary options around which the public can rally and then start them cheering: good/bad, democracy/autocracy, capitalism/communism, democrat/republican, red/blue, cowboys/indians. I believe there is no example of capitalism or communism in existence so they are purely hypothetical.

I think the point is simply that:
1) It is good that we have some freedom of choice and the ability to excel and to be rewarded for that in some "reasonable" manner.
2) It is good that some things are shared providing opportunity to (pretty much) all.
3) A society (community) should help each other to some extent - it makes the society stronger overall and after all we all may need assistance at one time or another.
The economy is a control system with feedback loop - one establishes the algorithm and reaps the results.

I imagine that all reasonable approaches to economic control have same core objective - to make the entity strong. And it has been found by long experience that the entity can only be strong (in the long run) if a large portion of the people are prosperous. The neo-liberals strive to make the little people bark for their dinner. The little people are responding with reduced population growth.

On subject of money (musings of a fool):
Money = wealth (by definition I believe).
In the past capital accumulation (formation) to protect from variations in income and needed to permit risk - play with what you can afford to lose. The good thing about this system is that it incentivises competition and excellence and prudent use of capital. The down side is it may lead to "hoarding" and/or income by virtue of wealth "rentierism" (which may not be entirely a bad thing, but is a kind of dead-end).
Current thinking seems to be free of need for capital - one only needs to have credit. We earn credit, not wealth. Then your "wealth" is only a piece of the economic pie. One's wealth is determined by others - by sphere of influence. Someone picks winners and losers. Credit is issued (and taken away) without limit - subject to regulation of which there is none.
A problem may be that one can use credit to acquire money and escape the system. Also sphere of influence is essentially a "club" - money does not know or care who holds it. People understand money and saving - a chance for financial freedom. Credit smacks of servitude.

Only an accountant could make addition and subtraction complicated.

Posted by: jared | Apr 6 2020 14:07 utc | 179

Thanks for you reply Mina @ 173
Totaly agree with you. Just wanted to avoid people thinking this was the way forward, only discover the usual suspects mis-use his knowledge.
Until we ‘deal’ with the psychopathic leaders and know them for what they are and what they do, things will only get worse ! Sadly.

Posted by: Mark2 | Apr 6 2020 14:18 utc | 180

@18 I spent time in Ecuador. It has a limited temperature range year round with winter temps being slightly below summer temps. The average temp is around 76 year round. In summer it is only 80F or so at the hotest. We will see if temps have an effect in the US as the southern states are lax with self quarantine and temps are regularly in the high 90's F from May to Oct.

Posted by: linda amick | Apr 6 2020 14:22 utc | 181

Brazil is mentioned above...in the possibility of coup.

see> (@ fort-russ) "It is being reported that, under pressure from the Army, Walter Braga Netto is now the “operational president” of Brazil, with Jair Bolsonaro effectively stripped of his decision making powers. According to veteran Argentine investigative journalist Horacio Verbitsky, this has already been communicated informally to the Argentine authorities. There has been as yet no official confirmation." et sec.

The plan they sketched out for Smedley in '33 was something similar...caging the prez as a way to keep the ritual but not the substance.

Posted by: Walter | Apr 6 2020 14:51 utc | 182

Posted by: BM | Apr 6 2020 13:02 utc | 174

The points you raise in your comment are addressed in this video.

Questioning Conventional Wisdom in the COVID-19 Crisis, with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya

The average 24/7 viewer of CNN/FOX or BBC is not aware of this hence swallows the "news" without questioning anything.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Apr 6 2020 14:58 utc | 183

I have previously mentioned that Comrade Texas predicted a showdown for this month.

Easy to read, searchterm "DONBASS "TERRORISTS"- 3 MONTHS TO LIVE?" (his caps, not mine)

or tinyurl[dot]com/s8rra5l

His views, now 3 months old, ought to be understood in context of now, eg after the CV "live exercise" and the murders since December 14....

And understood to be up close and rather tactical.

Nevertheless, here we are...

It may be that their attack plans went fubar, as Bemildered points out, they're not competent. I would say they're cunning and delusional, and have lots of weapons in a desperate moment - desperately like MacBeth trying to stop time..

Posted by: Walter | Apr 6 2020 15:03 utc | 184

@dltravers 138, William Gruff 170

I can confirm William's observation. so many so called expats exaggerate to appear "in the know" where most of them live a privileged, bubble life in a luxury compound.

worse are the returnees who couldn't "make it" abroad and have an axe to grind given any opportunity.

happens on both sides as well so it's just like an assh0le, everyone has one and they all stink.

I wouldn't put much stock in it.

Posted by: A.L. | Apr 6 2020 15:09 utc | 185

Posted by: Walter | Apr 6 2020 15:03 utc | 185

Re: Pompeo and his West Point clique and their associates, I have not spent much time on it, didn't seem like a useful or entertaining thing to do, but my impression is they have lots of plans and very little grasp of what is required to carry them out. (One thinks of Modi here.) This has been ongoing since the Iranians shot our fancy drone down there last year. The first shot across the bow. We are now withdrawing from Syria, Iraq & Afghanistan, however haltingly, as it has dawned on the commanders on the ground there how exposed they really are to Iranian fire, and that of their allies. Israel seems to be struggling with the same problem, how to continue to bully when the bullied can very effectively shoot back?

Many unseemly things being said about Crozier and the Teddy R. situation too. Lot's of heat, very little light. Trump says there is light at the end of the tunnel, I seem to remember that from somewhere in the past. I think that's about where we are again.

Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 6 2020 15:25 utc | 186

As expected, Japan will probably declare a state of emergency soon. It will probably happen tomorrow (April 7th, Japan time).

Shinzo Abe also pretends to pass a USD 1 trn relief/rescue package to try to keep the economy afloat. In this regard, Japan will have less macroeconomic problems than its Third World child, South Korea, as the Japanese Yen is part of the IMF's fiat currency basket, so it is less susceptible to a neoliberal-style currency-debt collapse.

If tha package is fully implemented, it will be basically what Germany is doing in scale, as it represents roughly 20% of its GDP (Germany's, if fully implemented, will amount to almost 30% of its GDP - by far the largest bailout/relief among the nations that matter).

Speaking of South Korea, I don't understand why the laissez-faire gang here and elsewhere on the internet is using the Asian Tiger as a model of how to fight against the pandemic without a lockdown.

Well, even withtout a lockdown, the South Korean economy is on its knees. In fact, the country only didn't go outright bankrupt with a Turkey-style currency death spiral because the Fed offered it an emergencial swap line. The country will, even with that very generous helping hand from the USA, enter in a severe recession.

And even then, a currency nose-dive is not out of question in S. Korea, as it countinues to bleed US Dollars.

Singapore's vaunted laissez-faire economy went -10% Q1 2020. So, what we observe this is that the COVID-19 crisis is a "real economy" crisis, where production itself is being stopped. This is, however, no "creative destruction", since the productive chains are not destroyed, just deactivated. The capitalist class is trying to extract some juice from this stone with some kind of mini-cultural revolution (trying to make people work and get things through the internet more, buy more online than they already were) - but really, this is really a drop on the ocean in terms of automation of human labor (mostly, because no new infrastructure is being built, but just that the old infrastructure is being overused).

The petit bourgeoisie and the lumpenproletariat should not delude themselves with the economic prospects of winning the political battle for "herd immunity".

--//--

Meanwhile, Boeing is going to shut down its Washington factory.

They've just received USD 60 billion from the USG, essentially as a give-out. I hope they at least use part of this money to keep the workers of the factory paid in full - that would be the least it could do in this circumstance.

--//--

@ Posted by: Walter | Apr 6 2020 14:51 utc | 183

This is no surprise for any Brazilian leftist who's not a political illiterate.

Brazil is being governed by a military junta and Bolsonaro always was just the façade.

Fun fact: this military junta is ideologically liberal. All of their political reforms are explicitly pro-free market (as was the original military dictatorship of 1964-85). This puts to rest the center-left thesis that "totalitarianism" can only be applied to nazism and communism.

--//--

@ Posted by: Mark2 | Apr 6 2020 12:34 utc | 172

No.

If a virus has the potential to be a pandemic, it will be a pandemic. To argue the contrary is a contradiction in terms, since the definition of pandemic is any virus of bacteria that can infect 70% of the world's population, so it is already adjusted to societal development.

A virus will always evolve in the given reality it is in. It can't see the future. The SARS CoV-2 evolved in our times, trial and error after trial and error. There's no concept of "future proof" in evolution.

--//--

About the wet markets in China.

Wet markets are a living fossil from the feudal times in China. It is not a communist invention and, in fact, the communists would erradicate them if they could. But they can't (for now): it is too deeply ingrained in the Chinese culture to be abolished outright.

The CCP will likely use the generational change strategy to get rid of both the wet markets and of Chinese superstition (which leads to the consumption of exotic animals like rhino horn and tiger penis): as the old generations die, those cultural fossils will also die with them. The new generations will then grow with cultural habits compatible with a more developed socialist society.

Posted by: vk | Apr 6 2020 15:38 utc | 187

Ah, here it is:

Acting Navy secretary blasts ousted aircraft carrier captain as 'stupid' in address to ship's crew:

here

Modly told the crew that their former commander, Capt. Brett Crozier, was either "too naive or too stupid" to be in command or that he intentionally leaked to the media a memo in which he warned about coronavirus spreading aboard the aircraft carrier and urged action to save his sailors.

The acting secretary accused Crozier of committing a "betrayal" and creating a "big controversy" in Washington by disseminating the warning so widely.

---

A defense official familiar with Modly's remarks offered his opinion of Modly's address, saying the acting secretary "should be fired. I don't know how he survives this day."

Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 6 2020 15:44 utc | 188

Tom_LX | Apr 6 2020 14:58 utc | 184
You know what cracks me up most about people like you, Tom? Is how gullible you are, and yet you turn around and project onto others your own gullibility.

Finding that one "expert" out of a thousand other experts that says the opposite of everyone else in their field, and he is therefore the only one who is smart, who gets it, and by extension so are you. Invariably, as in every fucking time, the lone voice has an ulterior motive, be it financial or otherwise.

For instance tobacco. Do you still believe that smoking tobacco is harmless or even healthy? And their actually was a conspiracy there, by the tobacco industry and their own research that showed the effect of smoking was having on people, and the handful of scientists they bribed to say otherwise.

Climate change. Do you believe that the climate is not changing? And their actually was a conspiracy there, by big oil and their own research that showed the effect burning all that oil was having, and the handful of scientists they bribed to say otherwise.

Two irrefutable, well documented examples, and yet you want to follow that pattern again.

Lets apply this theory to a more practical matter. Auto mechanics. You going to take your car to the 1 in a 1000 mechanics who says he is the only one who really understands how engines work.

How about construction, should we let the 1 in a 1000 architect/builder design and build the buildings we live in? Fire safety. Airplanes. Food safety. Do I need to go on? This list really is endless.

If it wasn't for the fact that the poor decisions some in the general population make based upon these "experts" pandering and greed, has adverse effects on the rest of us, I would gleefully watch the stupidity play itself out. Take immunizations, measles was virtually eradicated until the last 10 years or so, and now the nutcases who wont immunize their children are putting everyone else at risk.

Just for the record, I agree that the pharmaceutical industry are scum, but fortunately there are enough doctors and scientists to help reign them in, maybe not as much as I would like to see, but at least enough that I do indeed believe that immunizations benefits far outweigh any adverse effects they may have.

Scientist love to learn new things, if you think you have discovered something new, they want to know all about it, they want to try it themselves, there is absolutely no desire by them to squash any valid information. To think that 10,000's or 100,000's of scientists or doctors or anyone else from all over the world are all conspiring together to do anything is sheer stupidity. Any secret involving more than a very small group doesn't stay a secret for long.

Pedaling crap videos like that one are a disservice to literally everyone around you.

Posted by: David F | Apr 6 2020 15:54 utc | 189

from a stroke mumdbler?(dec16)trump will uninsured in hospitals for free.

Posted by: dahoit | Apr 6 2020 15:55 utc | 190

Bemildred | Apr 6 2020 15:44 utc | 189

The light at exit applied to a voluntary war. But yes, pomperz and his gang.

The quote: >"Modly told the crew that their former commander, Capt. Brett Crozier, was either "too naive or too stupid" " reveals something between despiration and foolishness, which we know are twins.

But since their perspective is delusional, they'll forge bravely ahead, until they don't.

They may not realize it yet, but they face mutiny.

Expect the worst, rejoice at less.

I expect the crew's writing songs about "moldy", as the Caine's crew did "Yellowstain Blues"

Posted by: Walter | Apr 6 2020 16:13 utc | 191

vk @188

You are unfortunately straying from your field of expertise with your opinion concerning Chinese wet markets. To put it bluntly, conflating superstition, eating exotic animals, and wet markets is an unfortunate display of ignorance. In very few wet markets can you find anything like "rhino horn and tiger penis". Indeed, I rather doubt such things can be found in ANY wet market in all of China. Most typically found at a wet market would be various live fowl (chickens and ducks) and live fish and seafood (shrimp, shellfish, squid, etc). More infrequently you might run across things like farm-raised rabbits, and even more infrequently things like farm-raised nutria. Despite hearing about dogs and cats being found in wet markets, I have never personally seen anything like that, much less things like bats and pangolins.

To better understand what a wet market really is (as opposed to the crazy western propaganda notion of what they are), it is useful to think of a farmers market where you can get freshly butchered chickens and live seafood. Are communists opposed to farmers' markets? If so then don't tell the Cubans and Venezuelans.

As for wet markets fading into history, probably not any time soon. Take a look at the United States (presumably the poster child for modernity) and note the trend for farmers' markets: they are booming... or rather, they were before the covid. Think about the modern rage of locavore movements (eating locally grown/raised foods). We might even see wet markets in the US when the pandemic problem is resolved as the trend towards fresh and local was increasing before the coronavirus struck.

The notion that wet markets are where tigers and rhinos are butchered is, frankly, quite silly.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 6 2020 16:17 utc | 192

@ Bemildred | Apr 6 2020 13:42 utc | 177.

Regarding the USS Roosevelt Capt. Crozier sacking (more likely CYA scapegoating by Navy superiors and Executive branch decision makers and "the 17 intel agencies"):

A widely-suppressed detail is that Crozier, as well as the commander of an accompanying guided missile cruiser and were under orders to make a good will port call to Da Nang Vietnam from Feb 27-Mar 4 (or 5?).

The visit was accompanied by much fanfare and the obligatory dog-and-pony show by US and Vietnam official' muckety-mucks.

Mar 4 Stars and Stripes story

"The USS Theodore Roosevelt arrived Thursday in Vietnam, becoming only the second U.S. aircraft carrier to make a port call there since the fall of Saigon in 1975.

The carrier, accompanied by the guided-missile cruiser USS Bunker Hill, steamed into Danang, where they were met by Vietnamese and U.S. government and military officials, according to a 7th Fleet news release. Waiting to greet the vessels were Adm. John C. Aquilino, commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, and U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Daniel Kritenbrink."

I could find no information, either confirming or denying, whether sailors from the Roosevelt and Bunker Hill were allowed shore leave in DaNang during the ~1 week long port stop when I googled "uss roosevelt danang shore leave 2020" , which likely means some amount of shore was granted and probably did occur.

Shore leave in Danang Vietnam (renowned for inexpensive "full-service+++" haircut parlors drawing hordes of young male Chinese and South Korean tourists) during the height of the China and South Korea Covid Outbreaks and Vietnam had just slammed its borders shut to South Korean and Chinese tourists?

https://www.unz.com/ldinh/hugging-china/

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/vietnam/vietnam-south-korea-travel-ban-coronavirus-02262020032920.html

What could possibly go wrong?

So, While our "17 intelligence agencies" plus the NSA (costing taxpayers 100's of billions $/yr), who have everyone in the world's communications bugged, including allies like Merkel, were warning Congress and Cabinet members in late January behind closed doors about the dire pandemic wildfire occurring in NE Asia, these warnings were evidently not being passed on down to regional commanders so they could take prudent protective measures for their commands.

But only Crozier is getting sacked?

Posted by: gm | Apr 6 2020 16:32 utc | 193

@ Bemildred | Apr 6 2020 13:42 utc | 177 assumption/perception

Your proffered quote> "... But since no emergency exists, its only realistic option is to shut down until the pandemic is under control. Otherwise, the military infection rate will continue to climb, spelling disaster for every civilian population the military comes in contact with..."

The existence of emergency is one matter. The perceptions however matter, and are "real", and from their delusional perception "emergency" does "exist"...armies are expendable. If they spread a "weapon", well, "they're volunteers" is the ordinary excuse. This also applies when they die...

"You fellas go silence that enemy MG"... "Screw u Lt". Frag Time.

Back to sea, even if imagined, forces fight. To muddle Sun Tsu.

Posted by: Walter | Apr 6 2020 16:33 utc | 194

@ Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 6 2020 16:17 utc | 193

I know what a wet market it. They also exist in my country.

Posted by: vk | Apr 6 2020 16:44 utc | 195

@ 174 BM... thanks for that exhaustive run down! it is complicated.. sweden doesn't seem immune to all of this and the stats, while difficult to interpret properly combined with the fact i am not on the ground in stockholm makes it all seem a bit removed from me... i don't have a link to the worldometer you refer to although i have seen others like peter au mention it a number of times.. i have the link to a more general overview
here.. the numbers for sweden continue to go up and the number of deaths attributed to sweden are noticeably higher then the other Scandinavian countries next to them... the only real reference i can make is off my own understanding of how these numbers have been collected inside canada with b.c. where i live doing much less testing then quebec... thus the numbers for quebec are quite high - although there is no breakdown in the numbers to shed more light on it all), while in b.c. the numbers are staying fairly flat for the past week.. in the case of sweden, we will have to wait until more information comes out as i see it.. maybe the need for a whole society to isolate is over kill as some seem to suggest and the way you articulated how china responded is a more nuanced and better way to go about this.. thanks for your comments!

@ 180 jared.. thanks for your comments jared.. i had a hard time understanding what you were trying to communicate!! i am going to make a bad generalization and say that any society that has a small percent of the people controlling an exceedingly large percent of everything is something i would avoid.. this is what i think we now have with capitalism.. i think private finance is central to this... we need to do away with it all for something better... sorry for the massively simplistic overview on it.. cheers!

@ 193 william gruff... some of your comments on what wetmarkets are remind me of vancouvers chinatown when i used to go there when i was in my 20's - the 70's... and yes - farmers markets are a growing business as i think many people like me anyway - see them as an alternative to big agribiz... it is kind of like the 100 mile diet idea that has also been embraced by many people in the area where i live... regarding the chinese superstitions and all that - one could buy most of those ingredients in dry powder form... unfortunately these cultural practices that vk notes - were and continue to go on in the b.c. vancouver area as i understand it.. periodically people are caught poaching bears for parts and etc. etc... sad reality but true... i thought vk's comments here "as the old generations die, those cultural fossils will also die with them. The new generations will then grow with cultural habits compatible with a more developed socialist society." was a nice thought! i don't know how easy it will be to realize, or if it is easier then i know... i hope the later..

Posted by: james | Apr 6 2020 16:44 utc | 196

.. on some level the billionaire philanthropists really irk me too.. i can't put my finger on it.. james at 14.

They are privatising health care, public health, and sanitary policies world-wide.

It is control masquerading as philantrophy. (See also Soros, who is more in the ‘social’ area.)

Ex. The Gates Foundation jumped on / created the Global Fund initiative (supported by Anan UN sec. gen.) to fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria. In 2002, at its foundation, these were the talked-about infectious diseases.

Today it’s front page is mostly about Covid-19. (link) Headquarters are in Geneva. When it set up it poached scientists and staff from other orgs.

Impacted badly on the WHO, which, following the UN model, was supposed to be a world-wide endeavour to coordinate health policies, particularly for infectious diseases which see no frontiers, if to be eradicated must .., etc. Run by participating *countries* (even those who pay nothing.)

The Fund bypasses National structures, bodies (if not entirely, as collab. on of some sort for some projects takes place, voluntarily .. and nations are big contributors..) to form ‘partnerships’ with .. whomever.

https://www.theglobalfund.org/en/

(director, Peter Sands, is a bankster.)

wiki (gives partial info..)

“However, the Global Fund's five-year evaluation in 2009 concluded that without a standing body of technical staff, the Global Fund is not able to ascertain the actual results of its projects.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Global_Fund_to_Fight_AIDS,_Tuberculosis_and_Malaria

Complex topic, here just some tips of the iceberg..

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 6 2020 16:58 utc | 197

I expect the crew's writing songs about "moldy", as the Caine's crew did "Yellowstain Blues"

Posted by: Walter | Apr 6 2020 16:13 utc | 192

Talking about mutinies, I prefer The Bounty's one

Posted by: DFC | Apr 6 2020 17:01 utc | 198

Posted by: gm | Apr 6 2020 16:32 utc | 194

Thanks, interesting details, vaguely remember some of that, perhaps why some people are very pissed off.

Posted by: Walter | Apr 6 2020 16:13 utc | 192

"Expect the worst, rejoice at less."

Yeah, about right. Mostly at this point I rely on Trump's cowardice. Bumpy ride any way you look at it.

Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 6 2020 17:05 utc | 199

Posted by: vk | Apr 6 2020 15:38 utc | 188

You don't usually find exotic stuff in wet markets. Most of the stuff like ground deer antlers, pangolin scales and rhino horns are sourced from traditional medicinal shops. They're also processed with heat, so the likelihood of getting bacteria or viruses from these things is infinitesimally small.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to reiterate something people in the west keep misunderstanding: chinese people from China do not usually eat bats.
I am originally from a country that eats bats. Tourists from China go there and find our bat dishes very exotic. If they did it at home they wouldn't be making such a fuss over them.

Posted by: anonymous_from_SEA | Apr 6 2020 17:14 utc | 200

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