Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 15, 2020

Open Thread 2020-30

Non-Covid news & views ...

Posted by b on April 15, 2020 at 16:51 UTC | Permalink

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Thank you Walter @17. I went looking for the transcript, being an admirer of Lavrov. There was only a partial one at the following site, with a 'to be continued' at the bottom, containing the quote you give.

https://www.rusemb.org.uk/article/605

Lavrov's final sentence there is: "...I firmly believe that mutual assistance is the key principle that countries should be guarded by at this critical time.

At that same site is an embassy statement about the false report on the Douma incident, with more to come on that also.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 16 2020 4:38 utc | 101

David F@89,
you've stated your educated opinion, and I just pointed out that this part particularly -
and first and foremost, taking care of their people - is far from reality.
Do you really follow closely what is going on in Russia? Unless you read and speak Russian, it can be a daunting task. Russian Foreign policy and Russian Internal affairs are two big differences (as you would say in Russian.) And not many people pay attention to the later. I wish I could give you links, but I don't know any good ones in English, and the English ones are mostly Russia-haters.

Of course, you are free to form you opinions; that wasn't even a question.

Posted by: teatree | Apr 16 2020 4:43 utc | 102

Some happy news for a change...

Google Subpoenaed For Hillary Clinton Emails Believed To Contain Backup To Records Scrubbed With "Bleachbit"

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/google-subpoenaed-hillary-clinton-emails-believed-contain-backup-records-scrubbed

Posted by: librul | Apr 16 2020 4:44 utc | 103

Re: discussion of varieties of 'human nature', I'd like to suggest reading "A Paradise Built in Hell"... what have real people actually done in real catastrophes? We rise to the occasion, however 'manipulated' we may be. Also, pre-historic humans generally lived in groups of 150.. Dunbar's Number. I think the sociopaths, even with their exquisite charm, had a harder time hiding.

Posted by: Nancy E. Sutton | Apr 16 2020 4:45 utc | 104

JC | Apr 16 2020 4:09 utc | 103

It is really hard to tell what happened in the video other than a scuffle broke out. I am not denying or demeaning what you say happened, just that there was no audio and the video was from too far away for me to really understand what happened and why. I am sure your description of events is accurate.

One of the guys I live with is Chinese. I told him today to keep his wits about him when he is out in public, because the mood is not good right now in the us (and evidently anywhere in the 'western world'). And if someone did give him any shit, to just leave, don't argue, don't fight unless you are cornered, just leave. There are a lot of stupid fucks out there and you don't really know what any of them are capable of.

This probably wont make you feel any better, but it isn't personal, those type of idiots will lash out at the 'other' out of fear and ignorance. Most people don't feel the way these idiots do, but they most likely won't intervene because they are cowards. Take comfort in the fact that there are some who don't feel the same way as these idiots, and there are some who would intervene. I have done so in the past, and would do so again.

During the best of times, humans are beastly to one another, tear away the thin veneer of society, and they turn into absolute monsters.

Posted by: David F | Apr 16 2020 4:59 utc | 105

lysias @ 87, the Athenian system of government was under serious attack when Plato was a youth, much as has been the US system in my own and coming to fruition now. It was then as now a situation where a sage might say 'we have given you a republic, ma'am, if you can keep it' or words to that effect.

Some years ago I discovered a wonderful site orchestrated by an amateur philosopher by the name of Bernard Suzanne. I have been touting it ever since, because having studied Plato's Dialogues in college and found them to be vivid accounts, more like plays than philosophical discourses, they still puzzled me and would not let me set them aside.

Bernard is a perceptive writer and has organized his site well - his theory for the dialogues makes sense to me. He sees them as a cohesively patterned entire opus, and what I think makes sense is that he takes the question "what is a political man?" using the person of Alcibiades(the Barak Obama of Athens) as a starting point, the dialogue 'The Republic' as the central issue, and all the other dialogues falling into a scheme that is extremely persuasive, and I think awe inspiring.

The underlying suggestion throughout is that men of evil or shallow or powerhungry intent can use the trappings of democracy, especially if they are charismatic as Alcibiades was, even in the best intended construct of the state. Ethics and morality swirl through all of the dialogues, and even if you don't agree with Bernard on the skeleton framework he presents, I'm convinced there was such a framework in Plato's mind. And that makes the Dialogues an important study for those who would wish to set state matters aright. For it isn't the construct of democracy in a state that is so important, but the quality of those who are given the power to administer it.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 16 2020 5:05 utc | 106

Here is that site:

plato-dialogues.org

Posted by: juliania | Apr 16 2020 5:06 utc | 107

@ psycho

I’m glad to hear your progress and look forward to hear you say you feel completely well!

Posted by: oglalla | Apr 16 2020 5:26 utc | 108


Posted by: David F | Apr 16 2020 4:59 utc | 109

Thanks David appreciates your input. I didn't purposely look for such videos. Came across Carl Zha twittler page. It was brutal attacked by any standard. No fake either. Me being a senior feel threatens, immediately type word-by-word onto smartphone WhatsApp family pages - warning to kin and sibling around the world: Sydney, Indonesia, Scotland, Malaysia, Hongkong, US of A and Singapore. My siblings and kin are very religious church going family closely knitted, whereas I'm a free thinker.

BTW, the is sound very loud. You should watch it on laptop or desktop. No one will believe such attacked could happen in Australia and by a woman...

https://twitter.com/steelmuslim/status/1250577705453547520

Posted by: JC | Apr 16 2020 5:37 utc | 109

teatree | Apr 16 2020 4:43 utc | 106

So, you live in Russia? I assume no, because I already asked you that and you didn't respond. If you don't live there then why do you think you know what it is like there?

A few qualifying statements first. I understand that no country or system is perfect, and that in any group of people there will be some who are unhappy with the situation. I am not in love with russia, nor do I think they live in a utopia, and I am aware that there have been some shitty things in russia's past. I am also aware that nobody does anything for truly altruistic reasons, there is always at least a thread of personal motivation mixed in with it. I realize that every group of people has their good folks and their bad folks, their honest folks and their thieving folks.

Tolstoy, chekov, dostoyevsky (among many others) are some of the greatest thinkers the world has ever known. Reading dostoyevsky was a real eye opener for me. 300+ years ago he was writing critically about social ills, that america only discovered in the last half of the last century. There was a 'free love' movement in his day, and the oligarchs that we have dealt with the last 100 or so years, they were dealing with in his day. For me this was a "fuck man, nothing ever changes" moment.

The russian people have a long history of fighting with the oligarchs and with revolutions for the people. They have a lot of good ideas that are beneficial to the people, but not so much to the oligarchs. If allowed to follow a natural course, those ideas would have spread to the rest of the world naturally as people elsewhere in the world came to know and understand them.

America has had its nose up russia's ass since at least the early 1900's. Why? Why did america spend so much energy and time undermining communism and the russians? If our ideas and society were so superior, why did we have to undermine theirs? Why couldn't we just let them keep doing what they were doing until they came to their senses and embraced our ideals and systems?

The answer is because our ideas and systems were not superior for the average man, our ideas and systems were superior for our 'betters', but not for us. If our 'betters' let us see that there was a better system out there for us, they knew the good times for them would be over. This applies to that tiny little island of our southeastern coast, and a few countries a few thousand miles directly south of us.

The vast majority of the russian's (and the cuban's) are more happy than unhappy with the system they have in place and what their leaders are doing on their behalf. Putin has been in charge for so long because the people want him in charge, because he is making their life better. Note I didn't say he was making their lives a utopia.

Putin is brilliant, articulate, and exudes genuine compassion. He doesn't speak in platitudes. Have you ever actually listened to him? He hosts Q&A sessions that last 3 or 4 hours, that are unscripted and practical. He deals with constant provocation calmly and rationally while stating this is the line, cross it at your own risk. (And note regardless what our leaders or military might say publicly, they are very careful not to cross that line.)

Look at what they have done in syria. Amazing. They sacrificed 30 million of their own citizens to defeat the nazi's, and they didn't go around bragging about it for 50 years. We might also note that they are the ones who defeated napolean as well.

Our country would be a damn sight better if we had a leader like putin. Anyone who does an honest comparison between their country and ours will clearly see that while they have problems, that have a lot fewer than we do.

I am willing to discuss this with anyone who wishes to, but only if you have ideas of your own, and not some bullshit ideas that somebody else put into your head, with or without your knowledge. Anyone I feel falls into the latter category will just be ignored.

Posted by: David F | Apr 16 2020 5:46 utc | 110

Interesting and ominous tidbits:

1. China is closing borders with Russia again
2. Beijing is going under a lock down
3. China is gearing up for a second surge
4. The next hotspots will be Russia, India and Indonesia with grave results for India
5. Putin has been MIA for two weeks.

India is particularly concerning. Very high density in population, piss poor healthcare and low educated population is a deadly combination.

Posted by: Alpi | Apr 16 2020 5:51 utc | 111

julianna@110

I had just downloaded 5 books from Plato to my ereader, the republic being one of them and that the only one I have read before.

Thanks for the link, I am looking forward to investigating it before I begin to read the books.

Posted by: David F | Apr 16 2020 5:52 utc | 112

Alpi | Apr 16 2020 5:51 utc | 115

Got any links for any of those items concerning russia and china?

Posted by: David F | Apr 16 2020 5:54 utc | 113

karlof1 @65

You write: "...An ongoing discourse here at MoA deals with the question of how to get people to again come together as a collective to create the change that's so badly needed to preserve our own wellbeing, which is in the collective interest of 330+ million people, as well as that of the planet's populous..."

Indeed, that has seemed to be the thrust of our politics since the founders wrote the Constitution, hasn't it? Starting with 'we the people...' and 'the people shall judge' all the way till Bernie's 'Not Me, Us!' A very American emphasis on the sovereignty of popular democracy.

You were then, after writing the above, castigated for admiring Russian leadership, and I was struck that indeed what we have had to admire in our recent past was a leaderless (deliberately so) organization - Occupy.

We made an excellent exploration of what took place in Russia before and after Putin came to power - and he wasn't alone, he had around him excellent support, still does. It is a top down configuration of leadership - bottom up in support given by the people. The previous leadership had failed, and the people suffered. Wasn't it too much to expect that the people themselves pull themselves out of the morass they were in? Didn't it need to be a cadre of leaders in a time of stagnation, utter and purposeless stagnation? You only need listen to Lavrov to know these are educated men who love their country and its people.

We are getting to that point. That stagnation. And maybe 'Not Me, Us!' is not the right slogan.

Do we need a phoenix, a firebird? I don't see one yet, but there's the forest...

I remember Putin said in one of his last speeches something like 'the people are the keepers of sovereignty' - not that they themselves are sovereign. That might be a better way to think of it in terms of nationhood. The firebird might be the nation itself, the land and people together, it's leaders serving that concept of sovereignty. "My country 'tis of Thee" or "O Beautiful for..." instead of "O say can you see?"

It doesn't take a village. Maybe. Maybe it takes a vision.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 16 2020 6:07 utc | 114

(Sorry about that misplaced apostrophe.)

:(

Posted by: juliania | Apr 16 2020 6:11 utc | 115

@David F. 117

No links. I am a physician and was just talking to a very close friend in China who happens to be a procurement agent for a few countries dealing with the pandemic and connected to the government. He informed me of these changes coming and some of them are yet to be publicized. The Beijing bit is true, verified by another source. That source is a friend who is a CEO of a private equity and cannot get back into Beijing after being away a week. So he had to to go to Nanjing.

The Russia bit comes from half of the passengers on a plane from Russia going to Shanghai testing positive for Covid after registering high temperatures.

I suspect we will hear about all of this within the next 10 days.


Posted by: Alpi | Apr 16 2020 6:22 utc | 116

Oh, you are very welcome, David F @ 116. Enjoy!

Posted by: juliania | Apr 16 2020 6:31 utc | 117

Alpi

I have been watching the numbers mounting fast in Russia. Very low death rate at the moment. Most or a lot of China's new cases now are coming in from east Russia.
I've watched quite a number of of village cooking blacksmithing type videos in india. Always strikes me how poor and illiterate they are.
A disaster waiting to happen.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 16 2020 6:55 utc | 118

Virus is virtually over in New York City. Only 10 people in NY City hospitals for virus as of April 13, 2020, published on NY City government website. Scroll to bar chart, click on "hospitalization"

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page


Posted by: chili palmer | Apr 16 2020 7:05 utc | 119

David F.

Came across this link just now:

https://www.rt.com/newsline/485874-russia-kremlin-china-imported/

I’m sure we will see more.

Posted by: Alpi | Apr 16 2020 7:14 utc | 120

Posted by: jayc | Apr 15 2020 17:26 utc | 3

Yep, Pat Lang just went full retard. Either of some twisted sense of "patriotism" or due to age dementia, doesn't matter.

Posted by: Abe | Apr 16 2020 7:15 utc | 121

Actually there are some hints that the virus even stays longer in (some?) people's bodies (like herpes?). These are contagious even after the 14 days. There had been cases of people in South Korea that left hospital after covid-19 recovery but tested positive again.
And now they have made this experience in Italy too and therefore might keep up the lockdown for 2 more weeks:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-do-italians-test-positive-after-symptoms-are-long-gone?ref=scroll


A simulation of a researcher team of the technical university of Berlin(TUB) has found: If Berlin/Germany would open up universities, schools and kitas now, after ten days Berlins IC-units would be crowded and not able to treat everyone anymore:
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/wissen/alarmierende-covid-19-modellrechnungen-zehn-tage-nach-schuloeffnung-schnellen-die-patientenzahlen-hoch/25741744.html

Fortunately the numbers of IC-beds in Germany has increased from 20 000 beds to nearly 25 000 beds:
https://www.intensivregister.de/#/intensivregister-> tab "Länder-Tabelle"

And:

"Even if the mortality rate among older people is significantly higher, the number of deaths would be enormous if the spread among younger people were to continue unabated. "We would have to reckon with well over 100,000 deaths among those under 60 years of age alone - this can be deduced from the data available to us on this infection," warned DGI board member Gerd Fätkenheuer."

https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Experten-warnen-vor-100-000-Toten-unter-60-article21696841.html
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

A very tricky situation. That won't work out well without forcing the rich towards solidarity. If only the state pays for food security etc than normal people will have to pay deps (as taxes) for a hundred years to come at least and the same idiot governments will keep cutting financial help for public infrastructure like health care, education, care of the elderly towards stone-age level.

Posted by: JoKuehn | Apr 16 2020 8:20 utc | 122

While in Libya, Tripoli-allied Turkish troops are getting some ground in the West...

Posted by: Mina | Apr 16 2020 8:45 utc | 123

teatree #73

@71 I meant rare.. Real statesmen are rare.

Thank christ you corrected that. You nearly got nominated for best typo at the bar. You would have to shout us all.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 16 2020 8:47 utc | 124

Alpi 115 "Putin has been MIA for two weeks."

http://en.people.cn/n3/2020/0414/c90000-9679193.html
"Russian President Vladimir Putin attends a meeting with senior government officials involved in the battle against COVID-19 via teleconference at Novo-Ogaryovo state residence, outside Moscow, Russia, on April 13, 2020".

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 16 2020 10:21 utc | 125

Jen @ 45 says:

Does Western society produce more such individuals than others, and if so, why so?

apparently so...according to the Psychopathy Checklist.

America: breeding ground for psychopaths

for example, being born into a Buddhist or Shinto culture apparently diminishes the likelihood of sociopathy, though i'd wager that even these profound cultures that inherently value the interrelatedness of all living things are being diluted by a modern world. after all...

The proper time to influence the character of a child is about 100 years before he is born

Posted by: john | Apr 16 2020 10:23 utc | 126

@ David F | Apr 16 2020 5:46 utc | 114

"Reading dostoyevsky was a real eye opener for me. 300+ years ago he was writing critically about social ills"

Make it 160 instead ... Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky (1821-1881)

Posted by: BG13 | Apr 16 2020 10:28 utc | 127

re: psychopaths

Q: What would the members of an entire society composed of psychopaths refer to themselves as? How would they describe themselves? How do they see themselves?

A: Exceptional rugged individuals.

Violence seems natural to victims of such psychosis. The video posted by JC @113 saddens and sickens me. To think that the violent psychosis has spread to Australia...

But then a quick glance at the history of Australia reveals that the degenerate psychosis has always been there as long as the place has been called "Australia". Clearly Britain is the source of that contagion.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 16 2020 10:30 utc | 128

John @ 130:

Japan has been a Buddhist / Shintoist / Confucian-influenced nation for hundreds of years, and yet that country has had its fair share of quite twisted psychopathic individuals over the years. I think there was one guy who even became a TV celebrity after he confessed to killing his European girlfriend and cutting her up, and consuming some of her flesh, and then spending time in jail. I believe he even wrote a book about his experiences.

In the 1930s also, Buddhist and Shinto religious leaders in Japan supported the fascist government and its militarist adventures. These religions had their extremist fanatical aspects; the phenomenon of kamikaze pilots who were often teenage boys made drunk and pushed into planes to go on suicidal missions probably has to be understood in the context of state Buddhism or state Shintoism at the time.

Even today, in Thailand, there are periodic scandals involving senior Buddhist monks caught having sexual affairs with women or underage partners, or gambling or using donations in corrupt ways.

Korean shamanism (it still exists) likewise emphasises the link between the material world and the spirit world; and yet it contributed to the downfall of former Sth Korean President Park Geun-hye - her shaman adviser was caught taking advantage of her connections with the President to enrich herself financially.

Eastern and other faith traditions with a holistic view of the world can only go so far in imbuing people with a definite ethics or value system.

Posted by: Jen | Apr 16 2020 10:55 utc | 129

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Europe should offer a "heartfelt apology" to Italy for failing to help when the country became the first EU nation to be hit by the coronavirus pandemic.

Posted by: 433 | Apr 16 2020 11:23 utc | 130

Jen @133

Having sex with women is a sign of psychosis? I guess psychosis is a more widespread condition than I had originally thought.

The problem with the Japanese in the run-up to WWII had little to do with their religion as few Japanese people, even if you go back a century, take any religion very seriously. The mind disease that afflicted the Japanese was much more familiar to westerners: a sense of "exceptionality". They really and truly thought they were doing the world a favor by trying to remake it in their society's image. If such a thing were possible then they wouldn't even have been completely wrong about that, so the mistake they made is somewhat understandable. In fact, having an enlightened and relaxed attitude about religion was part of their sense of "exceptionality", and they were (and are) right in that regard.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 16 2020 11:31 utc | 131

Hang onto your hats for this latest scary but data-driven 48 min long Chris Martenson YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vtX0s-nHKo

Covers all kinds of snowballing repercussions of the pandemic in US/world including:

-plummeting US economic activity indicators /bank reserves data

-food production/processing supply chain problems

-clinical observations from icu doctors world wide of new multi-organ (kidney heart GI testes) involvements, olfactory/neurological/pinkeye, etc phenomena (from Washington Post of all places).

Posted by: gm | Apr 16 2020 11:42 utc | 132

Jen @ 133 says:

Eastern and other faith traditions with a holistic view of the world can only go so far in imbuing people with a definite ethics or value system

yeah, but that 'so far' seems to be considerably farther than what we see imbued in American culture...

...which is pretty much the entire point of what i posted.

Posted by: john | Apr 16 2020 12:17 utc | 133

gm @136

'"The question is is it kind of behaving like a hybrid of different viruses" Spiegel said.'

Interesting question.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 16 2020 12:42 utc | 134

@MoA team

re: psychopaths / sociopaths [ my first post :) ]

1] it is said that ~3% are born such [ ~Gaussian distribution ]
... [ and unfortunately necessary from evolutionary perspective ]

2] that would imply "final solution-izing" a whopping ~3%
... [ who would do "it", then what about the 'next' ~3% ]

3] if ~3% are 'nature/born', then perhaps ~3% are 'nurture/made'
... [ the 'nurtured ~3%' neg. training might be 'preventable' ]

4] the above 'nurtured', would require intervention ...
... for which, at the moment, there is not much hope.

For the above, I sincerely invite/implore the team to a fascinating
chat with Chris Hedges:

Pathology of the Rich


one example excerpt trimmed of many a poignant points:
"
It’s very distasteful to see, because, you know,
I would go to the homes of friends of mine and
watch–and let’s remember they’re children, 11, 12 years old,
ordering around adults–their servants, their nannies.
...
...
The rich are different, because when you have that much money,
then human beings become disposable.
Even friends and family become disposable and are replaced.
And when the rich take absolute power,
then the citizens become disposable,
which is in essence what’s happened.
There is a very callous indifference.
"

Posted by: Mµ | Apr 16 2020 12:59 utc | 135

A good article at Counterpunch today.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/04/16/the-third-red-scare-neoliberals-effective-framing-of-21st-century-populist-and-progressive-movement/

And another at Medialens
https://www.medialens.org/2020/the-people-have-spoken-bastards-leaked-labour-report-shows-partys-own-senior-staff-acted-to-keep-corbyn-out-of-power/

The desperation with which The Establishment fought to destroy Corbyn is best understood in the context of the very mild, moderate policies that he was proposing. It wasn't socialism that the media and the ruling class were fighting so hard but populism-their fear was that democracy might spread and that if it did it would spell the end for their capitalist system. In a word what frightened the neo-liberals was not the party platform of renationalising certain industries and resocialising the NHS but the reality that nobody supported Corbyn except the people.
He came within 2700 votes of winning the 2017 Election- despite the fanatical opposition of the entire Establishment, including the staff of the Labour Party who were doing everything that they could to bring about their party's defeat- a fact ignored in most of the media reports of a recently leaked internal enquiry.
That 'near miss' was unacceptable, in the 2019 Election nothing was left to chance, and the result was that the Labour Party was returned into the hands of the Blairites. See Realist@8 above

Posted by: bevin | Apr 16 2020 13:23 utc | 136

If 3 % (and I accept that), it's implied that it's a species-useful characteristic that has circumstantially become atavistic. It might be a good idea to keep the 3% socios and change the circumstances such that the 3% is useful and happy, along with everybody else, and fat babies.

It's legend that money marries money...and curates the breeding and indoctrination of little sociopaths...who also have too much money.

This seems to imply that the problem is not sociopaths but money...which is to say disproportional power supported by ill-suited customs and ways of seeing and doing.

Posted by: Walter | Apr 16 2020 13:25 utc | 137

The desperation with which the oligarchy seeks to preserve the neo-liberal dispensation, and particularly on 'the left' which, historically, opposed its anti-egalitarianism, may be explicable in very simple terms:

"A new Institute for Policy Studies Inequality briefing paper, authored by Bob Lord, reveals that between 1980 and 2018, the taxes paid by America’s billionaires, when measured as a percentage of their wealth, decreased a staggering 79 percent.

"The only appropriate metric by which to measure the tax burden on billionaires, the briefing paper explains, is the rate of tax they pay on their wealth. Unlike the rest of us, the living expenses of billionaires do not constrain their accumulation of wealth. Nor do they rely on their work to generate additional wealth. For billionaires, the accumulation of wealth is driven forward almost exclusively by the growth of their existing wealth and constrained almost exclusively by the tax they are required to pay. No matter how the taxes imposed on billionaires are determined – by income, consumption, property ownership, transfers by gift or bequest – they function only as a tax on wealth.

"By allowing the tax burden of billionaires, as a percentage of their wealth, to plummet since 1980, policy makers have caused the nation’s wealth to concentrate obscenely at the very top. In the 12 years between 2006 and 2018, IPS reports, nearly 7 percent of America’s real increase in wealth, measured in 2018 dollars, went to the top 400 billionaires. If the pattern of the past four decades does not change, an even greater share of the nation’s newly created wealth over the next 12 years will flow to the billionaire class..."

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/04/16/taxes-paid-by-billionaires-decreased-79-percent-since-1980-as-percentage-of-their-wealth/

Posted by: bevin | Apr 16 2020 13:36 utc | 138

Q: What would the members of an entire society composed of psychopaths refer to themselves as? How would they describe themselves? How do they see themselves?

A: The Land of the Free, Beacon of Liberty, Leader of the Free World, or as Mike Pompeo has stated "the world's leading light of humanitarian goodness."

Posted by: ak74 | Apr 16 2020 13:43 utc | 139

@team

#DNSTM [ Do-Not-Shoot-The-Messenger ]


Israelis Are Literally Spitting on Palestinians
in Hopes of Infecting Them With COVID
Spreading the Virus of Occupation

{"
Spitting at someone is a universal insult. In Israel, however, spitting at Palestinians is an entirely different story.

Now that we know that the deadly coronavirus can be transmitted through saliva droplets, Israeli soldiers and illegal Jewish settlers are working extra hard to spit at as many Palestinians, their cars, doorknobs, and so on, as possible.
...
...
... utterly foolish as well.

When Israeli soldiers arrest or beat up Palestinian activists, they are as likely to contract the coronavirus as they are to transmit it.
"}

Posted by: Mµ | Apr 16 2020 13:50 utc | 140

bevin | Apr 16 2020 13:36 utc | 142 income tax rates reached 93% about 1951 I think, and were 70% about 1962...that's to say on the well-off.

...............

But to Meyssan's "Trump adapte la stratégie énergétique US",par Thierry Meyssan

He speaks of a coup in the US...that evidently was interrupted by the epidemic.

(voltaire org)

He, among other things, says that> "...The United States has therefore convinced the European Union to join a "just cause" operation: the kidnapping of President Maduro and the country’s strongman, Diosdado Cabello. The United Kingdom, France, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands - the former colonial powers of South America - volunteered.

- On March 26, the US Department of Justice issued a wanted and reward notice for President Maduro and his team, whom it accused of drug trafficking.
- On March 31, the State Department issued a framework for a democratic transition in Venezuela that excludes both former President Maduro and self-proclaimed President Guiado [1].
- At the beginning of April a Portuguese spy vessel, the RCGS Resolute, managed to sink the Venezuelan coastguard ship that had come to board it, escape and place itself under Dutch protection on Curacao. France and the United Kingdom dispatched two warships, the amphibious helicopter carrier Dixmunde and the container ship FRG Argus, to the area to bring arms and ammunition under cover of anti-Covid transport. [2] A US destroyer and several Navy ships were placed under the command of the Drug Enforcement Agency.

However, this operation was interrupted by the US Navy due to the epidemic." and goes on:

"...In the United States, some of the senior officers who had tried to overthrow President Trump with Russiagate and then Ukrainegate imagined introducing martial law to fight the epidemic at the federal level, which is constitutionally the responsibility of the federal states [5] They thus refused to commit their troops to Venezuela; an unprecedented insubordination to the United States.

The request for assistance from the commander of the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt to disembark his men because of the impossibility of confining the sick on board [6] was initially considered as an abandonment of post by the political authorities. But the unanimous homage of his sailors when their leader was landed led President Trump to sacrifice the Secretary of the Navy, suddenly described as rigid and heartless. Three other aircraft carriers are in the same situation. The showdown continues between state and federal civilians on the one hand and military personnel on the other. In the event of martial law, senior officers could declare themselves neutral of political divisions and only have ambitions for the health of their fellow citizens...."

Posted by: Walter | Apr 16 2020 13:53 utc | 141

to chervus and others. Check out www.wallstreetonparade.com. Plenty of details on who's getting what. Also, they give the most complete rundown of the banksters grifting and grafting since 2006 that I've ever seen. Names,
dates, places, as they say round the ranch. Those with delicate stomachs might want to keep a barf bag handy. It's pretty disgusting... and the murkans at large cannot be convinced even with overwhelming evidence that the "Federal Reserve" is a private entity - a consortium of banks... of the banks, by the banks, for the banks. Sigh.

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Apr 16 2020 13:55 utc | 142

So many insightful comments, I deeply appreciate B and you all. As a high school teacher and then guidance counselor for many years I worked with young people and watched them. Sociopathy is, like many conditions, from my viewpoint, on a spectrum: we are all on it. As is aspergers, which is a different spectrum. Those toward the extreme end of the sociopathic spectrum are know by teachers and staff in early grades, rich or poor. The rich usually go on to be very successful. The poor are on probation by 8th grade and end up in the prison and black market economy, also called gangs/organized criminal syndicates.
Some siblings are more sociopathic than others-- same mom, maybe same dad, often similar environment growing up. W. Bush vs Jeb would be one example. I would argue that W. is more sociopathic than Jeb. Jeb isn't necessarily a stellar human being but he's more sensitive and doesn't have the "mean" in him that his brother does. Trump sensed that-- being even more sociopathic than any of his competitors.
Obviously, an empire enocourages sociopathy. Any political change must include an understanding of greed and hate at a personal, family, community level and set up ways to identify and fight those tendencies. As I said, we all have some greed/hate/sociopathy. Start with that. Stay humble.

Posted by: migueljose | Apr 16 2020 13:56 utc | 143

@433 | Apr 16 2020 11:23 utc | 134

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Europe should offer a "heartfelt apology" to Italy for failing to help when the country became the first EU nation to be hit by the coronavirus pandemic.

That's easy to say when you are heartless. I would expect a psychopath to talk like that (I grew up with a psychopath step father).

The only thing that matters is what you do.

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 16 2020 14:08 utc | 144

Another French achievement (or a Syrian curse?). One third of the sailors of the vessel that was stationed in support for the operations in Syria are positive. An enquiry is ordered after people complain that a month ago, when they were docked in Brest, they already had cases for which they asked to be quarantine but faced a refusal from the ministry.

from cnn live:
The French navy has launched inquiries into the cluster of Covid-19 cases onboard the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier, navy prefecture Christine Ribb said during a Thursday press conference in Toulon.

On Wednesday, the French Ministry of Armed Forces announced that 668 of the 1,767 sailors on board the vessel had tested positive for Covid-19.

“We have two inquiries underway: an epidemiological enquiry headed by the army health service and the chief of state of the navy ordered an inquiry so that light can be shed on the facts as calmly as possible," Ribb said.

Posted by: Mina | Apr 16 2020 14:12 utc | 145

The word socialism is meaningless. A government, by nature is socialistic. Again, following up on my sociopathy comment, it's on a spectrum. Some governments-- Sweden, Finland, Cuba-- do more, others-- Guatemala, Honduras, now Bolivia-- do less.
"Public sector" would be a more accurate term to describe what the particular government in question is using public funds. Tennessee, for example, will not put out your house fire if you have not paid your "fire tax". Most southeastern states have smaller public sectors than northern states.
Another issue: be honest. Military is public sector. Police, prisons... public sector. you a cop? your public sector. your money comes from the people. That's socialism. It makes no sense for right wingers to be against "socialism" and work for the public sector.
Bernie never defined "socialism" accurately which allowed DNC scum and republicans to tar him with that dirty word since we Americans are so addicted to Fox, CNN and MSNBC.

Posted by: migueljose | Apr 16 2020 14:13 utc | 146

For discussion. Highly recommend adding this long essay to the reading list:
cost-benefit analysis of the lockdowns and partial lockdowns; scientism v. epidemics; the uncertainties. "A job is not a life"

The Only Man Who has A Clue by Raúl Ilargi Meijer
[now posted at ZH]
LINK


[.]at some point [I] realized that the coronavirus is an issue you can’t leave to epidemiologists and virologists, because there are far too many unknowns for them to create a working model, and without such a model they are lost. These fine people are not good at 10-dimensional chess, even if they like you to think otherwise.

These people are useful for the knowledge they possess of past epidemics, not for predicting what will happen in the next one, certainly not if it’s caused by a virus which they -and we- simply don’t know enough about to build a reliable model. In that case, you need to step back and apply more basic principles.[.]

Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 16 2020 14:21 utc | 147

addendum to my "Walter | Apr 16 2020 13:53 utc | 145" Ann Garrison @ blackagendareport > "The USS COVID-19, from Guam to Puget Sound"

Her excellent essay provides considerable support for and buttressing of Meyssan's claims about a military coup and military rule.

"While the world confronts a real-life deadly epidemic, the Covid-afflicted US Navy struggles to maintain the farce of keeping the planet safe from fictitious threats" (ouch!)

It's a serous in insightful view... The US military seems to be crippled, ie failing. Bill Pfaff wrote about that. In 2008.

Posted by: Walter | Apr 16 2020 14:39 utc | 148

Interesting discussion on sociopathy. Thank you lizard.

Sociopathy may or may not be heritable. Money is most certainly heritable. Land is most certainly heritable. Titles and position are heritable.

Child abuse is not heritable, however an abused child is quite likely to grow up to be an abuser.

It is not hard to come up with examples of how this works. Consider the ancient system of English ‘public’ schools. Bullying and sodomy have always been part of the curriculum. What sort of parent would send their child to a place where they would certainly be bullied and sodomized? A parent concerned with maintaining the family wealth, and the system that protects it. And so it goes.

Sociopathology comes back to money every time.

Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 16 2020 14:47 utc | 149

@ 151 Likklemore.. krollchem posted that @335 on the covid thread - Debunking Some Ideas About The Virus.. it's an excellent article everyone should read..

@ lizard.. this is like your thread man! you got the socio-pycho pathology thing going and it took on a life of its own.. everyone wants to talk about it.. stick with the poems.. i find them more rewarding myself..

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2020 14:50 utc | 150

pat lang needs to change his last name to mccarthy....

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2020 15:11 utc | 151

And by the way… who on this earth – with a sound and thinking brain – would believe in anything claimed bythe USA aka whatever president or state-related ministry or organisation. They all got exposed as LIARs again and again.

From the Korean-War to Vietnam, to public assassination of highest politcal figures, to Katrina’s aftermath & FAILED prevention, to housmade water crises to 9/11 including air safety in NYC, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Ukraine, Russia"Gate" and Libya ( the lastest where a british parliamentary committee came to the conclusion all was based on fraund, wrong or manipulated intelligemce, fake news and utter willingness to go to war !!!)

Go to Wikileaks and pick up whatever topic you like and then read those emails or sources and take a look at public statements and mass-corporate-media so callled articles – some even use the word “Investigative” – they are mostly a parade of distortions, omissions, whitewashing, lies, imputations of others, doctored statistcal numbers, faked sources & intelligence and so on, and on and on….
Go to ShadowStatistics ( shadowstats.com ) and take a look at official economical released data & stats.!!??

Fox is as much propaganda as CNN & Co.!!! Americans are the most brainwashed public ever. It ‘s just a question of the topic of how much truth is actually appropriate. It’s all shrouded in double standards, hypocrisy and mendacity aka exceptionalism for decades now.
Libya War
https://www.globalresearch.ca/libya-war-was-based-on-lies-bogus-intelligence-nato-supported-and-armed-the-rebels-british-parliamentary-report/5547356

How China learned about SARS-CoV-2 in the weeks before the global pandemic
April 8, 2020
Vijay Prashad is an Indian historian, editor and journalist.
https://www.newcoldwar.org/how-china-learned-about-sars-cov-2-in-the-weeks-before-the-global-pandemic/
Japan, China and Taiwan Reports on the Origin of the Virus
https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_87277.shtml
Chinese Socialism versus American Capitalism
Dealing with the COVID-19 Pandemic
by Kim Petersen / March 21st, 2020
https://dissidentvoice.org/2020/03/chinese-socialism-versus-american-capitalism/
Self-delusional US can only beat Covid-19 if it stops blaming China and faces up to its own pandemic mistakes
https://www.newcoldwar.org/self-delusional-us-can-only-beat-covid-19-if-it-stops-blaming-china-and-faces-up-to-its-own-pandemic-mistakes/

Posted by: Ashino | Apr 16 2020 15:41 utc | 152

How US media dish out their own propaganda on China and Covid-19: SCMP columnist

The USA has transcended the post-truth stage; it is now at the post-lie stage.

Posted by: vk | Apr 16 2020 16:24 utc | 154

@ james 154

Thanks. I missed that comment by krollchem. The longer the lockdowns the more difficult the recovery. 100s of 1000s of small businesses, who were - pre-C-19- struggling to compete with Amazon, will disappear.
The issues aired in the essay at Automatic Earth by Raul Meijer in play. However
for Trump, expecting unemployment to hit 45%, getting re-elected is paramount:

Trump to push for reopening economy despite coronavirus testing concerns


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump on Thursday is expected to lay out a strategy to phase out the month-long economic shutdown aimed at stanching the coronavirus pandemic, despite concerns from health experts, state governors and business leaders about the dangers of lifting restrictions without widespread testing in place.[.]
The state restrictions have strangled the U.S. economy to an extent not seen since the Great Depression nearly a century ago. Another 5.2 million more Americans sought unemployment benefits last week, the Labor Department reported on Thursday, lifting total filings for claims over the past month to more than 20million.

The Republican president, who has staked his re-election in November on the strength of the U.S. economy, is scheduled to hold a call with the nation’s governors at 3 p.m. (1900 GMT) and said he would announce his plan at a news conference later on Thursday. The White House coronavirus task force is scheduled to hold its daily public briefing at 5 p.m.
[.]
“The worst thing that could happen would be for us to throw everyone back into the economic cycle and have to go back to having 97% of our people being told to stay home again,” Trump’s former White House chief economic adviser Gary Cohn told CBS News on Thursday.[.]

Trump v. Biden. That's the choice and we are doomed.

Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 16 2020 16:25 utc | 155

@ 159 likklemore... covid has been a bit of a nightmare for capitalism! i am trying to honour b's request to talk non covid here, lol... it is hard to do!!

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2020 16:36 utc | 156

James@154,

stick to the poems? you prefer I just play the bard because you find it more entertaining?

tell me, do you have kids? I do, and a big part of my role as a parent is making sure they don't become victims of predators, the ones who have degrees and good jobs and help contribute to the billions of dollars made selling kids for sex and worse. they can be charming people, charismatic, they get your confidence, groom your children, and they are fucking monsters.

the NEW NORMAL that we're being prepped to accept without question--you think artists are going to be free to express themselves how they choose?

let me tell you a little story. I wrote a poem and published it in my local newspaper as an op-ed. do you know what happened to me? I was verbally accosted by a City Council member at my place of work, a non-profit that works with the elderly. this council person was also a board member, you see, so she used your position of authority to get me in a room and berate me for writing a poem as a private citizen. she even asked me if I was going to write about this incident "on my blog". I went through a conflict resolution process where they tried to get me to sign something stating I wouldn't talk about it, which I refused to sign and they backed down. I could have sued, but it's ultimately a good organization, so instead I got a written apology letter.

that happened in 2018 in good ol Amerika, James. I was later passed over for a promotion which I was more than qualified for and last month we parted ways after things got ugly.

let me tell you another story. Brandon Bryant is a young whistleblower, Google him and you can find articles from Rolling Stone and Democracy Now. Bryant has been involved, as have I, in bringing attention to corruption in our community regarding Tax Increment Financing. before this pandemic hit, Bryant was in jail on felony charges for allegedly threatening public officials. google Outer Limits Missoula if you want to know more.

there is not a municipality or institution left in this country that is not somehow corrupt, and we're being lied in more ways than we can understand. people don't want to be mocked and have their reputations ruined, which I suspect is one reason some bloggers are being so careful about the scope of speculation they are willing to tolerate.

hell, I don't even share all my suspicions at my own blog. I'm saving that for the "fictional" story.

Posted by: lizard | Apr 16 2020 16:56 utc | 157

The Coronavirus 19 seems to be delivering on its promise. POMPOMPUS was on TV just minutes ago saying China did the Virus .. When wall street crashes, the gold taken from the governed, will be return to the governed from whom it was taken, and the likely best investment may turn out to be in companies that manufacturer and operate Guillotines and the like. Gun sales are going through the roof.

I cannot see small business tolerating this wall street ripoff for long?

Posted by: snake | Apr 16 2020 17:04 utc | 158

Just received a mail from a Chinese friend about preview what is going on in AU, how this virur is going to infect people's minds
"https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-15/wagga-council-cuts-china-sister-city-ties-due-to-covid-19/12149664"

Posted by: lakurtchen | Apr 16 2020 17:05 utc | 159

Let's see if this link to Pepe Escobar's FB works as it's to a note he posted about a Bill Gates tweet back on 12/19/19 that seems to show foreknowledge of the coming pandemic. Well, I tested it during the edit process, and it doesn't go directly to the item for me, although I do get his FB page. The tweet also lends credence to the veracity of the November intel report leaked by NBC. I'd say it's yet another lead in the mystery.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2020 17:06 utc | 160

@ lizard.. i never had kids... i can only appreciate your situation as an outsider.. i don't see a nightmare unfolding, but i can accept others do, or might... by your description of what is going on in the usa - it is a nightmare.. maybe it's best to keep talking about socio and psycho pathology then as opposed to the poetry.. maybe it will produce some positive fruit.. i appreciate your honesty here and am at a loss for a helpful response.. things sound really fucked in the usa and you are experiencing it first hand..

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2020 17:09 utc | 161

@James,

I write to stay as sane as possible.
thanks to b for this forum and everyone who is constructively chiming in.

Posted by: lizard | Apr 16 2020 17:17 utc | 162

@ 9 - Anonymous

Just an add on to the speculating in that comment. (It is tin foil time. With no professional sports to watch, this is fair substitute - IMO.)

A kindly reporter, covering the New York beat, posted a link to this story to show the intense acrimony between Gov. Cuomo and NYC mayor, Bill de Blasio. For those of us (like me) who weren't aware of that. Another layer of political intrigue.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2016/12/16/harlem-deer-dies-for-sins-of-nys-politicians/

And since New York borders on to Canada, here are a couple video clips showing comments by Trump and Trudeau yesterday, about lifting restrictions on the US/Canada border. (More intrigue! Who needs sports?)

https://twitter.com/PnPCBC/status/1250557644441620482

https://twitter.com/PnPCBC/status/1250815621434159104

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 16 2020 17:48 utc | 163

@ james

honouring b's request the thread should be non-COVID-19.

Yes try as we might, all topics in today's surreal world are COVID-19 related. All aspects of Life, forever changed. .....over the next 18 months until the new normal is launched.

The economic carnage. Weddings, funerals, sports events put on hold.
Going to the Post Office for the mail is considered non-essential but the USPS remains open and mail sorted. !!!!?

Politics: will the GOP-DEM convention be virtual?
Shameless and immune from C-19? No, very serious -
Warren says she would accept an offer to be Biden's running mate

Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 16 2020 17:54 utc | 164

@karlof1, 164
Talking about foreknowledge, the UK government produced a 342-page lockdown law in a few weeks and passed it into law in only 1 day. Normally, this whole process would take months if not more than a year.

On the subject of foreknowledge, this following clip draws attention to the UK government's links to the web of Gates-funded vaccine projects https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=39&v=C3ldtVWKlQI&feature=emb_logo

In viewing this, I felt as if I had turned over a stone and found what was wriggling underneath.

Posted by: cirsium | Apr 16 2020 17:56 utc | 165

snake | Apr 15 2020 17:35 utc | 4
No, this device is a complete scam. A very long-lasting scam at that! It was originally marketed as a "lost golf ball finder" and then, somehow, sold to the British armed forces as a "Mine detector" and was used for years by them, in spite of ordinary soldiers complaining that they were "effing useless", which they were. Now it seems, someone has sold the same device to the IRGC as a covid-19 detector! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29459896

Posted by: foolisholdman | Apr 16 2020 18:01 utc | 166

@b
Why is it that when I go to post anything, even if I have only just got here in the last few minutes, I get a little message saying that my time has expired and I have to go right out of MOA and come back in to post it?

Posted by: foolisholdman | Apr 16 2020 18:03 utc | 167

I see that the topic of oil is ignored in "open thread", I guess many of us forgot what is (a liquid contained in some rocks)? and what it is for (does it have any?)

Whatever it is for, one of the main aims of foreign and military policy of USA and (some?) allies was to secure the supply of that liquid. Now there are problems with finding enough storage. There was a short periods when it looked that Trump with convince enough oil producers to cut production and lift the oil prices. It would not do to render our main achievements worthless. But now, rather than rejoicing that are government secured all the supplies of oil that we may need, and more!, there are worries about some sinister armada of supertankers from KSA is sailing towards USA where nobody seems to ask for it. Western hemisphere has way more than enough.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Apr 16 2020 18:20 utc | 168

David F | Apr 15 2020 19:48 utc | 27

One way of at least diluting their baleful influence is choosing leaders by lot rather than by election. I forget where I read it but some think tank said that their research indicated that one got better leadership that way. It also, of course means that if, for instance MPs were chosen by lot from the available, eligible, willing adults in the area. One would avoid the undue preponderance of any ethnic or social group. No discrimination against anyone.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Apr 16 2020 18:21 utc | 169

cirsium @170--

Yeah, just as the many pages of the so-called Patriot Act were already waiting to be distributed as soon as the anthrax made its debut. Deliberately making people sick and then profiting from the remedy is similar in its nature to the so-called fight against cancer where stopping the introduction of carcinogens into the environment would be very effective while science works on a genuine antidote, but notice how hard such a cessation's fought against, as is the Precautionary Principle upon which it's based. As usual, I point back to the US Congress's approving lead to be added to gasoline despite its very well known toxic effects. Why the hell bother establishing a Food & Drug Administration to examine the wholesomeness of those products when you're going to allow the mass poisoning of society?

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2020 18:24 utc | 170

I was really appalled about Trump decision to stop WHO funding. But then I read this:

Alcohol compromises the body’s immune system and increases the risk of adverse health outcomes,” WHO's regional office for Europe said in a report published Tuesday. “Therefore, people should minimize their alcohol consumption at any time, and particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic.”

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Apr 16 2020 18:36 utc | 171

Good little article by Gowans--

https://gowans.blog/

"How the US intends to keep its group of corporate marauders on top"

Posted by: arby | Apr 16 2020 18:53 utc | 172

Jen | Apr 15 2020 20:34 utc | 45

Human beings as a whole are rather lazy. Socio-/psychopaths on the contrary are very energetic, they tend to be confident, ingenious, charming, intelligent, amoral and devious. Just the sort to be elected to a committee and then to be chairman. Elections are almost tailor-made for psychopaths to "get on". It may be one reason (the other was avoiding corruption) why the ancient Athenians preferred selection by lot.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Apr 16 2020 18:54 utc | 173

Posted by: juliania | Apr 16 2020 5:06 utc | 111

plato-dialogues.org

this looks like a good website. Thank you for the link.

Posted by: Phil | Apr 16 2020 19:03 utc | 174

Posted by: vk | Apr 16 2020 16:24 utc | 159

How US media dish out their own propaganda on China and Covid-19: SCMP columnist

Thanks vk, Alex Lo one of my very few favorites in SCMP in opinion section, he lived in Canada... From what I gather Jack Ma (Alibaba) member of CCP, How on earth he allow SCMP to be so anti-China, with Taiwanese born Gary Liu, CEO? Fair and balance that what I expect right? Are there conspirator theory behind it? Please share...

It bring me back to Far Eastern Economic Review and Asia Magazine.... both demised. BTW Far Eastern Economic Review original publisher were Australian.... sold to Dow Jones....I'm not new to the commie stuff,

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/the-raffles-conversation/old-school-newsman

Posted by: JC | Apr 16 2020 19:07 utc | 175

William Gruff | Apr 16 2020 12:42 utc | 139
Haave you seen this?
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/04/11/pravda-us-army-created-covid-19-in-2015-research-proofs-or-debunking-you-pick/

Posted by: foolisholdman | Apr 16 2020 20:17 utc | 176

lizard | Apr 16 2020 16:56 utc | 162

re the risk of telling truth...

The author Kenneth Rexroth publ part of his autobiogtaphy under the title "An Autobiographical Novel" to protect from, well...reaction to truth.

The journalist George Seldes wrote "Tell The Truth And Run" , an insider view of risk in news publishing.

Posted by: chu teh | Apr 16 2020 21:38 utc | 177

BG

You are correct, my mistake. I often confuse which one of the three I mentioned were writing during which time.

I don't think it really takes anything away from my larger point though.

Posted by: David F | Apr 16 2020 22:41 utc | 178

Dow 6000, S&P 850, Oil $12, Gold $3500 oz
Unemployment 32%
Mathematically Guaranteed

Posted by: Hannibal | Apr 16 2020 23:00 utc | 179

William Gruff @ 136:

Ha-ha, you're very funny! :-)

These are the kinds of sex scandals I had in mind actually:

"Thai Monks Arrested In Child Sex Scandal" (Huffington Post, 2013)

"Jet-setting Buddhist monk at centre of scandal" (Stuff.co.nz reprinting Sydney Morning Herald article, 2013)

In the second example, the monk forced himself on the underage teenage girl and got her pregnant.

"Bhutan's Buddhist monks accused of sexually molesting boys" (Religion News Service, 2013)

In the third example, the article refers to rumours and reports of child sexual abuse occurring in monasteries in Bhutan with older monks preying on younger monks and novices.

I don't see how ordinary Japanese people having a relaxed and eclectic attitude about religion (as they do with many other things in their culture: their cuisine is eclectic and their popular music even more so: YouTube is full of videos of Japanese mariachi bands dressed in full Mexican mariachi musician regalia) has anything to do with their elites believing in Japanese exceptionality since the 1590s (this is even before the Tokugawa shogunate began its police-state rule of Japan in the first decade of the 1600s) when Toyotomi Hideyoshi tried to invade the Korean peninsula.

What the general public in Japan has long believed in (nature-based Shintoism with a layer of Buddhism on top) should be separated from what Japan's elites since the Tokugawa shogunate (selectively cherry-picking the bits of Confucianism, Buddhism, Shintoism and Western culture they like and using those to browbeat the rest of the country) have long believed in.

Posted by: Jen | Apr 16 2020 23:29 utc | 180


@ Jen 185

Could also mention this:


The Brutal History of Japan’s ‘Comfort Women’
Between 1932 and 1945, Japan forced women from Korea, China and other occupied countries to become military prostitutes.


The end of World War II did not end military brothels in Japan. In 2007, Associated Press reporters discovered that the United States authorities allowed “comfort stations” to operate well past the end of the war and that tens of thousands of women in the brothels had sex with American men until Douglas MacArthur shut the system down in 1946.


Wunderful luvly caring people those Japanese and Yankees.

Posted by: mm | Apr 17 2020 1:12 utc | 181

Oops forgot link.

https://www.history.com/news/comfort-women-japan-military-brothels-korea

Posted by: mm | Apr 17 2020 1:14 utc | 182

Walter #142

This seems to imply that the problem is not sociopaths but money...which is to say disproportional power supported by ill-suited customs and ways of seeing and doing.


Nicely put, take away the fuel and the brazier dies down to a warm glow. Its that simple.

So in the case of the filthy rich: TAX THEM HARD. If they must invest as a therapeutic need, then they can 'invest' (read GIFT) in the supply side of the Occupy Food Co-op in each population centre. BUT they can only invest on the cooperatives members' terms.
Otherwise their only other therapy option is to turn the compost pile weekly.
Socialism with a shovel.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 17 2020 3:35 utc | 183

Likklemore #152

Great link and thank you.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 17 2020 3:46 utc | 184

Anya Parampil exposes the Sr. Cuomo as a corporate hack.

From Grayzone; https://thegrayzone.com/2020/04/16/andrew-cuomo-governors-randy-credico/

Posted by: ben | Apr 17 2020 3:47 utc | 185

Posted by: ben | Apr 17 2020 3:47 utc | 190

"Anya Parampil exposes the Sr. Cuomo as a corporate hack."
Thanks, Anya left RT Question More taken over by Manila Chan, now with Grayzone. RT in a mess now due to Covid19

Posted by: JC | Apr 17 2020 4:09 utc | 186

Prepare for a fresh new onslaught of racist, jingoistic, Sinophobic bullshit. A review of fatalities since January in Wuhan has re-categorized 1290 deaths as due to America's covid bio warfare attack on China.

Mindless, mass media consuming, remote-controlled zombies will now begin chanting in unison "See? We were right! They were hiding the real numbers!".

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 17 2020 12:11 utc | 187

Remarkably the celestially inspired genius, Esper, (SecDef US) says... war.

Geewhiz the navy is at war? Those surface ships are merely targets, he maybe outta keep quiet, so the "enemy" doesn't find out!

" Esper stated in an interview Thursday, “They’ve had no problems, completely ready, conducting their wartime mission today. This was a special case. We’re going to get it behind us. And I’m sure that T.R. will be back to sea soon, performing its important wartime mission.”

Esper offered no explanation as to what war any of these ships are fighting. His use of the phrase “wartime mission,” however, is an indication that no matter how disastrous the impact of the coronavirus upon the US population, Washington has no intention of curtailing its military aggression abroad or halting its preparation for a third world war...."

"Wartime mission"??

@ "Pentagon escalates tensions with Iran in Persian Gulf" (Bill Van Auken) (WSWS)

Posted by: Walter | Apr 17 2020 14:16 utc | 188

This is a well balanced analysis of the Sanders campaign in the Democratic Primaries:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/04/17/bernie-sanders-tests-the-limits-of-the-us-political-system/

Posted by: bevin | Apr 17 2020 15:43 utc | 189

Another excellent link this one to Middle East Eye:
It seems that the Foreign Office was determined to brainwash Arab students until they had become as anti-Communist and prone to political self harm as their peers in the western world.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/big-story/religious-operations-how-british-propagandists-used-islam-wage-cultural-cold-war

Posted by: bevin | Apr 17 2020 15:49 utc | 190

@foolisholdman #172
It is a safety measure. Just refresh the page - your content, etc should still be there and you can just hit the "post" button.

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 17 2020 16:36 utc | 191

Walter @193--

Excellent catch! "Wartime mission" indeed. The TR incident exposes the total lack of preparation for NBC defense throughout the USN. The Saker has an article about it that's worth the time to read.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 17 2020 18:11 utc | 192

Macron installed Etat d'urgence sanitaire on march 22nd.Three days later his government made ordonnance making possible the immediate installation of 5G-antennae,without private or corporate owner's permission,neither mayor ,city counsel,whatever.

I was alerted by email,for a petition to sign.

https://urgencesantepas5g.wesign.it/fr

To whom it concerns.

Posted by: willie | Apr 17 2020 19:29 utc | 193

karlof1 | Apr 17 2020 18:11 utc | 197 In context it may be best to remember Pomerz "we're in a line exercise here..."

Ignorant, nutty, they may be...but it does seem that in the celestial halls of power, waning power, they themselves see themselves engaged with undeclared war, illegal war, if you draw on the UN Charter Treaty ratification, but war...plain and simple.

Can it be that their designs are revealed by their acts and slips o' th' tongue?

Do we need a Hamlet's play whereby to reveal the conscience of the ruling class?

In context, the surface fleet is useful to provide, if sunk, a basis for generating consent...pearl harbor, the Maine, you know.

It is useful for bombarding weak and impoverished targets - thugs for big business, racketeer's enforcers.

And it makes bigbuckies for the sutler class...the "mic"

Posted by: Walter | Apr 17 2020 20:01 utc | 194

David F,
I am Russian American. I am in America, lived most of my life in Russia. That gives me a two-side perspective. That's why I commented on your lament about being jealous and that somewhere is better than here. The only place that is better is here and now, where we are. I mean where everyone of us is. Because it is where and when we can do something. This is such a trivial thing, but, I suppose, it needs to be reminded. As of your opinion that it is better (easier?) in Russia than here right now, you are mistaken. Of course Russia lucky to have Putin; he is a blessing. As I see it, he caught Russia at the very edge of an abyss, gave people a breather. But how long can he hold it? His party is actually playing a role in the destruction of Russia. Putin is really a double blessing because people can't complain that they don't have a good leader but have to finally figure out themselves what to do. And it is a fight on a deeper level; a fight to save the foundations of Russian society (the most important one - family).
I'll share my opinion from the "other side", too. I am impressed with the level of propaganda here, in the US. It is astonishing. The way it is done is a masterpiece in itself - cutting edge propaganda pushing cognitive dissonance to the limit. I think that's why, for example, when Putin or b, on this blog, state something simply, naming things by their names, it clicks, makes sense. Taken out of the propagandized, scripted narrative, things make sense.

Posted by: teatree | Apr 17 2020 21:32 utc | 195

William Gruff #133

But then a quick glance at the history of Australia reveals that the degenerate psychosis has always been there as long as the place has been called "Australia". Clearly Britain is the source of that contagion.

Well said William but not Britain alone. Ruling class Britain for sure has a well developed sense of meanness and punish in its psyche. That attitude of blame and punish is one of the disgusting traits of many cultures in humanity. It would benefit us all to see it as a mendacious and destructive trait and then craft a language and theatre and social responsiveness that redirects blame and punish toward compassion and reward for constructive and productive behaviour.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 18 2020 2:16 utc | 196

teatree #200

Well said. Here and now is where we all are. So the next action is the first step to betterment.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 18 2020 2:20 utc | 197

Wars and empires go back a long time and throughout all the so called civilised world and beyond. Mongols, Incas, Persia, Turkey, And all the other conquerors of history. WWII was or should have been the end of the history of empires, but the US, even in the nuclear age with attendant mutually assured destruction still attempts empire building. Germany and Japan put an end to the British empire and they in turn were destroyed. US will go the same way. Perhaps then, if there is still a few people left, the age of empires will have ended.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 18 2020 2:29 utc | 198

The new Labour Leader (Kier Starmer) refused to publish all the donations to his campaign until' after he was elected (he was only following the "rules"). "The Canary" reveals that he has been funded by Trevor Chinn, a member of the executive committee of the British Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) - a pro-Israel lobby group:

Keir Starmer received £50,000 donation from pro-Israel lobbyist in leadership bid

Fake and exaggerated allegations of antisemitism were a significant element in what destroyed the previous leader, Jeremy Corbyn. There has never, and will never be a leader (or Prime Minister) which such a history and genuine natural ease with not giving offence to any 'group' as Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn extended this to other nations and nationalities without favour or exception - so he treated Israeli and Palestinian utterly equally and by the same standard; it was this that Israel feared. The strong impression is left that a foreign government (Israel) - using a lobbyist - has conspired with Starmer to change the leader of the Labour Party to one who is much more conducive.

Posted by: ADKC | Apr 18 2020 7:16 utc | 199

I have just read Whitney Webb at Unz review on big pharma etc. SAD to say that the USA is in bad shape. If the covid-19 vaccine is sourced from the usa it should be avoided.
Maybe visit any other country for the jab.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 18 2020 10:12 utc | 200

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