Re: discussion of varieties of ‘human nature’, I’d like to suggest reading “A Paradise Built in Hell”… what have real people actually done in real catastrophes? We rise to the occasion, however ‘manipulated’ we may be. Also, pre-historic humans generally lived in groups of 150.. Dunbar’s Number. I think the sociopaths, even with their exquisite charm, had a harder time hiding.

Posted by: Nancy E. Sutton | Apr 16 2020 4:45 utc | 104

lysias @ 87, the Athenian system of government was under serious attack when Plato was a youth, much as has been the US system in my own and coming to fruition now. It was then as now a situation where a sage might say ‘we have given you a republic, ma’am, if you can keep it’ or words to that effect.
Some years ago I discovered a wonderful site orchestrated by an amateur philosopher by the name of Bernard Suzanne. I have been touting it ever since, because having studied Plato’s Dialogues in college and found them to be vivid accounts, more like plays than philosophical discourses, they still puzzled me and would not let me set them aside.
Bernard is a perceptive writer and has organized his site well – his theory for the dialogues makes sense to me. He sees them as a cohesively patterned entire opus, and what I think makes sense is that he takes the question “what is a political man?” using the person of Alcibiades(the Barak Obama of Athens) as a starting point, the dialogue ‘The Republic’ as the central issue, and all the other dialogues falling into a scheme that is extremely persuasive, and I think awe inspiring.
The underlying suggestion throughout is that men of evil or shallow or powerhungry intent can use the trappings of democracy, especially if they are charismatic as Alcibiades was, even in the best intended construct of the state. Ethics and morality swirl through all of the dialogues, and even if you don’t agree with Bernard on the skeleton framework he presents, I’m convinced there was such a framework in Plato’s mind. And that makes the Dialogues an important study for those who would wish to set state matters aright. For it isn’t the construct of democracy in a state that is so important, but the quality of those who are given the power to administer it.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 16 2020 5:05 utc | 106

@ psycho
I’m glad to hear your progress and look forward to hear you say you feel completely well!

Posted by: oglalla | Apr 16 2020 5:26 utc | 108

teatree | Apr 16 2020 4:43 utc | 106
So, you live in Russia? I assume no, because I already asked you that and you didn’t respond. If you don’t live there then why do you think you know what it is like there?
A few qualifying statements first. I understand that no country or system is perfect, and that in any group of people there will be some who are unhappy with the situation. I am not in love with russia, nor do I think they live in a utopia, and I am aware that there have been some shitty things in russia’s past. I am also aware that nobody does anything for truly altruistic reasons, there is always at least a thread of personal motivation mixed in with it. I realize that every group of people has their good folks and their bad folks, their honest folks and their thieving folks.
Tolstoy, chekov, dostoyevsky (among many others) are some of the greatest thinkers the world has ever known. Reading dostoyevsky was a real eye opener for me. 300+ years ago he was writing critically about social ills, that america only discovered in the last half of the last century. There was a ‘free love’ movement in his day, and the oligarchs that we have dealt with the last 100 or so years, they were dealing with in his day. For me this was a “fuck man, nothing ever changes” moment.
The russian people have a long history of fighting with the oligarchs and with revolutions for the people. They have a lot of good ideas that are beneficial to the people, but not so much to the oligarchs. If allowed to follow a natural course, those ideas would have spread to the rest of the world naturally as people elsewhere in the world came to know and understand them.
America has had its nose up russia’s ass since at least the early 1900’s. Why? Why did america spend so much energy and time undermining communism and the russians? If our ideas and society were so superior, why did we have to undermine theirs? Why couldn’t we just let them keep doing what they were doing until they came to their senses and embraced our ideals and systems?
The answer is because our ideas and systems were not superior for the average man, our ideas and systems were superior for our ‘betters’, but not for us. If our ‘betters’ let us see that there was a better system out there for us, they knew the good times for them would be over. This applies to that tiny little island of our southeastern coast, and a few countries a few thousand miles directly south of us.
The vast majority of the russian’s (and the cuban’s) are more happy than unhappy with the system they have in place and what their leaders are doing on their behalf. Putin has been in charge for so long because the people want him in charge, because he is making their life better. Note I didn’t say he was making their lives a utopia.
Putin is brilliant, articulate, and exudes genuine compassion. He doesn’t speak in platitudes. Have you ever actually listened to him? He hosts Q&A sessions that last 3 or 4 hours, that are unscripted and practical. He deals with constant provocation calmly and rationally while stating this is the line, cross it at your own risk. (And note regardless what our leaders or military might say publicly, they are very careful not to cross that line.)
Look at what they have done in syria. Amazing. They sacrificed 30 million of their own citizens to defeat the nazi’s, and they didn’t go around bragging about it for 50 years. We might also note that they are the ones who defeated napolean as well.
Our country would be a damn sight better if we had a leader like putin. Anyone who does an honest comparison between their country and ours will clearly see that while they have problems, that have a lot fewer than we do.
I am willing to discuss this with anyone who wishes to, but only if you have ideas of your own, and not some bullshit ideas that somebody else put into your head, with or without your knowledge. Anyone I feel falls into the latter category will just be ignored.

Posted by: David F | Apr 16 2020 5:46 utc | 110

julianna@110
I had just downloaded 5 books from Plato to my ereader, the republic being one of them and that the only one I have read before.
Thanks for the link, I am looking forward to investigating it before I begin to read the books.

Posted by: David F | Apr 16 2020 5:52 utc | 112

karlof1 @65
You write: “…An ongoing discourse here at MoA deals with the question of how to get people to again come together as a collective to create the change that’s so badly needed to preserve our own wellbeing, which is in the collective interest of 330+ million people, as well as that of the planet’s populous…”
Indeed, that has seemed to be the thrust of our politics since the founders wrote the Constitution, hasn’t it? Starting with ‘we the people…’ and ‘the people shall judge’ all the way till Bernie’s ‘Not Me, Us!’ A very American emphasis on the sovereignty of popular democracy.
You were then, after writing the above, castigated for admiring Russian leadership, and I was struck that indeed what we have had to admire in our recent past was a leaderless (deliberately so) organization – Occupy.
We made an excellent exploration of what took place in Russia before and after Putin came to power – and he wasn’t alone, he had around him excellent support, still does. It is a top down configuration of leadership – bottom up in support given by the people. The previous leadership had failed, and the people suffered. Wasn’t it too much to expect that the people themselves pull themselves out of the morass they were in? Didn’t it need to be a cadre of leaders in a time of stagnation, utter and purposeless stagnation? You only need listen to Lavrov to know these are educated men who love their country and its people.
We are getting to that point. That stagnation. And maybe ‘Not Me, Us!’ is not the right slogan.
Do we need a phoenix, a firebird? I don’t see one yet, but there’s the forest…
I remember Putin said in one of his last speeches something like ‘the people are the keepers of sovereignty’ – not that they themselves are sovereign. That might be a better way to think of it in terms of nationhood. The firebird might be the nation itself, the land and people together, it’s leaders serving that concept of sovereignty. “My country ’tis of Thee” or “O Beautiful for…” instead of “O say can you see?”
It doesn’t take a village. Maybe. Maybe it takes a vision.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 16 2020 6:07 utc | 114

@David F. 117
No links. I am a physician and was just talking to a very close friend in China who happens to be a procurement agent for a few countries dealing with the pandemic and connected to the government. He informed me of these changes coming and some of them are yet to be publicized. The Beijing bit is true, verified by another source. That source is a friend who is a CEO of a private equity and cannot get back into Beijing after being away a week. So he had to to go to Nanjing.
The Russia bit comes from half of the passengers on a plane from Russia going to Shanghai testing positive for Covid after registering high temperatures.
I suspect we will hear about all of this within the next 10 days.

Posted by: Alpi | Apr 16 2020 6:22 utc | 116

Alpi
I have been watching the numbers mounting fast in Russia. Very low death rate at the moment. Most or a lot of China’s new cases now are coming in from east Russia.
I’ve watched quite a number of of village cooking blacksmithing type videos in india. Always strikes me how poor and illiterate they are.
A disaster waiting to happen.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 16 2020 6:55 utc | 118

David F.
Came across this link just now:
https://www.rt.com/newsline/485874-russia-kremlin-china-imported/
I’m sure we will see more.

Posted by: Alpi | Apr 16 2020 7:14 utc | 120

Actually there are some hints that the virus even stays longer in (some?) people’s bodies (like herpes?). These are contagious even after the 14 days. There had been cases of people in South Korea that left hospital after covid-19 recovery but tested positive again.
And now they have made this experience in Italy too and therefore might keep up the lockdown for 2 more weeks:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-do-italians-test-positive-after-symptoms-are-long-gone?ref=scroll
A simulation of a researcher team of the technical university of Berlin(TUB) has found: If Berlin/Germany would open up universities, schools and kitas now, after ten days Berlins IC-units would be crowded and not able to treat everyone anymore:
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/wissen/alarmierende-covid-19-modellrechnungen-zehn-tage-nach-schuloeffnung-schnellen-die-patientenzahlen-hoch/25741744.html
Fortunately the numbers of IC-beds in Germany has increased from 20 000 beds to nearly 25 000 beds:
“>https://www.intensivregister.de/#/intensivregister-> tab “Länder-Tabelle”
And:

“Even if the mortality rate among older people is significantly higher, the number of deaths would be enormous if the spread among younger people were to continue unabated. “We would have to reckon with well over 100,000 deaths among those under 60 years of age alone – this can be deduced from the data available to us on this infection,” warned DGI board member Gerd Fätkenheuer.”

https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Experten-warnen-vor-100-000-Toten-unter-60-article21696841.html
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
A very tricky situation. That won’t work out well without forcing the rich towards solidarity. If only the state pays for food security etc than normal people will have to pay deps (as taxes) for a hundred years to come at least and the same idiot governments will keep cutting financial help for public infrastructure like health care, education, care of the elderly towards stone-age level.

Posted by: JoKuehn | Apr 16 2020 8:20 utc | 122

teatree #73

@71 I meant rare.. Real statesmen are rare.

Thank christ you corrected that. You nearly got nominated for best typo at the bar. You would have to shout us all.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 16 2020 8:47 utc | 124

Jen @ 45 says:
Does Western society produce more such individuals than others, and if so, why so?
apparently so…according to the Psychopathy Checklist.
America: breeding ground for psychopaths
for example, being born into a Buddhist or Shinto culture apparently diminishes the likelihood of sociopathy, though i’d wager that even these profound cultures that inherently value the interrelatedness of all living things are being diluted by a modern world. after all…
The proper time to influence the character of a child is about 100 years before he is born

Posted by: john | Apr 16 2020 10:23 utc | 126

re: psychopaths
Q: What would the members of an entire society composed of psychopaths refer to themselves as? How would they describe themselves? How do they see themselves?
A: Exceptional rugged individuals.
Violence seems natural to victims of such psychosis. The video posted by JC @113 saddens and sickens me. To think that the violent psychosis has spread to Australia…
But then a quick glance at the history of Australia reveals that the degenerate psychosis has always been there as long as the place has been called “Australia”. Clearly Britain is the source of that contagion.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 16 2020 10:30 utc | 128

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Europe should offer a “heartfelt apology” to Italy for failing to help when the country became the first EU nation to be hit by the coronavirus pandemic.

Posted by: 433 | Apr 16 2020 11:23 utc | 130

Hang onto your hats for this latest scary but data-driven 48 min long Chris Martenson YT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vtX0s-nHKo
Covers all kinds of snowballing repercussions of the pandemic in US/world including:
-plummeting US economic activity indicators /bank reserves data
-food production/processing supply chain problems
-clinical observations from icu doctors world wide of new multi-organ (kidney heart GI testes) involvements, olfactory/neurological/pinkeye, etc phenomena (from Washington Post of all places).

Posted by: gm | Apr 16 2020 11:42 utc | 132

gm @136
‘”The question is is it kind of behaving like a hybrid of different viruses” Spiegel said.’
Interesting question.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 16 2020 12:42 utc | 134

A good article at Counterpunch today.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/04/16/the-third-red-scare-neoliberals-effective-framing-of-21st-century-populist-and-progressive-movement/
And another at Medialens
https://www.medialens.org/2020/the-people-have-spoken-bastards-leaked-labour-report-shows-partys-own-senior-staff-acted-to-keep-corbyn-out-of-power/
The desperation with which The Establishment fought to destroy Corbyn is best understood in the context of the very mild, moderate policies that he was proposing. It wasn’t socialism that the media and the ruling class were fighting so hard but populism-their fear was that democracy might spread and that if it did it would spell the end for their capitalist system. In a word what frightened the neo-liberals was not the party platform of renationalising certain industries and resocialising the NHS but the reality that nobody supported Corbyn except the people.
He came within 2700 votes of winning the 2017 Election- despite the fanatical opposition of the entire Establishment, including the staff of the Labour Party who were doing everything that they could to bring about their party’s defeat- a fact ignored in most of the media reports of a recently leaked internal enquiry.
That ‘near miss’ was unacceptable, in the 2019 Election nothing was left to chance, and the result was that the Labour Party was returned into the hands of the Blairites. See Realist@8 above

Posted by: bevin | Apr 16 2020 13:23 utc | 136

The desperation with which the oligarchy seeks to preserve the neo-liberal dispensation, and particularly on ‘the left’ which, historically, opposed its anti-egalitarianism, may be explicable in very simple terms:
“A new Institute for Policy Studies Inequality briefing paper, authored by Bob Lord, reveals that between 1980 and 2018, the taxes paid by America’s billionaires, when measured as a percentage of their wealth, decreased a staggering 79 percent.
“The only appropriate metric by which to measure the tax burden on billionaires, the briefing paper explains, is the rate of tax they pay on their wealth. Unlike the rest of us, the living expenses of billionaires do not constrain their accumulation of wealth. Nor do they rely on their work to generate additional wealth. For billionaires, the accumulation of wealth is driven forward almost exclusively by the growth of their existing wealth and constrained almost exclusively by the tax they are required to pay. No matter how the taxes imposed on billionaires are determined – by income, consumption, property ownership, transfers by gift or bequest – they function only as a tax on wealth.
“By allowing the tax burden of billionaires, as a percentage of their wealth, to plummet since 1980, policy makers have caused the nation’s wealth to concentrate obscenely at the very top. In the 12 years between 2006 and 2018, IPS reports, nearly 7 percent of America’s real increase in wealth, measured in 2018 dollars, went to the top 400 billionaires. If the pattern of the past four decades does not change, an even greater share of the nation’s newly created wealth over the next 12 years will flow to the billionaire class…”
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/04/16/taxes-paid-by-billionaires-decreased-79-percent-since-1980-as-percentage-of-their-wealth/

Posted by: bevin | Apr 16 2020 13:36 utc | 138

@team
#DNSTM [ Do-Not-Shoot-The-Messenger ]

Israelis Are Literally Spitting on Palestinians
in Hopes of Infecting Them With COVID
Spreading the Virus of Occupation
{”
Spitting at someone is a universal insult. In Israel, however, spitting at Palestinians is an entirely different story.
Now that we know that the deadly coronavirus can be transmitted through saliva droplets, Israeli soldiers and illegal Jewish settlers are working extra hard to spit at as many Palestinians, their cars, doorknobs, and so on, as possible.
…
…
… utterly foolish as well.
When Israeli soldiers arrest or beat up Palestinian activists, they are as likely to contract the coronavirus as they are to transmit it.
“}

Posted by: Mµ | Apr 16 2020 13:50 utc | 140

to chervus and others. Check out http://www.wallstreetonparade.com. Plenty of details on who’s getting what. Also, they give the most complete rundown of the banksters grifting and grafting since 2006 that I’ve ever seen. Names,
dates, places, as they say round the ranch. Those with delicate stomachs might want to keep a barf bag handy. It’s pretty disgusting… and the murkans at large cannot be convinced even with overwhelming evidence that the “Federal Reserve” is a private entity – a consortium of banks… of the banks, by the banks, for the banks. Sigh.

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Apr 16 2020 13:55 utc | 142

@433 | Apr 16 2020 11:23 utc | 134

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Europe should offer a “heartfelt apology” to Italy for failing to help when the country became the first EU nation to be hit by the coronavirus pandemic.

That’s easy to say when you are heartless. I would expect a psychopath to talk like that (I grew up with a psychopath step father).
The only thing that matters is what you do.

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 16 2020 14:08 utc | 144

The word socialism is meaningless. A government, by nature is socialistic. Again, following up on my sociopathy comment, it’s on a spectrum. Some governments– Sweden, Finland, Cuba– do more, others– Guatemala, Honduras, now Bolivia– do less.
“Public sector” would be a more accurate term to describe what the particular government in question is using public funds. Tennessee, for example, will not put out your house fire if you have not paid your “fire tax”. Most southeastern states have smaller public sectors than northern states.
Another issue: be honest. Military is public sector. Police, prisons… public sector. you a cop? your public sector. your money comes from the people. That’s socialism. It makes no sense for right wingers to be against “socialism” and work for the public sector.
Bernie never defined “socialism” accurately which allowed DNC scum and republicans to tar him with that dirty word since we Americans are so addicted to Fox, CNN and MSNBC.

Posted by: migueljose | Apr 16 2020 14:13 utc | 146

addendum to my “Walter | Apr 16 2020 13:53 utc | 145” Ann Garrison @ blackagendareport > “The USS COVID-19, from Guam to Puget Sound”
Her excellent essay provides considerable support for and buttressing of Meyssan’s claims about a military coup and military rule.
“While the world confronts a real-life deadly epidemic, the Covid-afflicted US Navy struggles to maintain the farce of keeping the planet safe from fictitious threats” (ouch!)
It’s a serous in insightful view… The US military seems to be crippled, ie failing. Bill Pfaff wrote about that. In 2008.

Posted by: Walter | Apr 16 2020 14:39 utc | 148

@ 151 Likklemore.. krollchem posted that @335 on the covid thread – Debunking Some Ideas About The Virus.. it’s an excellent article everyone should read..
@ lizard.. this is like your thread man! you got the socio-pycho pathology thing going and it took on a life of its own.. everyone wants to talk about it.. stick with the poems.. i find them more rewarding myself..

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2020 14:50 utc | 150

And by the way… who on this earth – with a sound and thinking brain – would believe in anything claimed bythe USA aka whatever president or state-related ministry or organisation. They all got exposed as LIARs again and again.
From the Korean-War to Vietnam, to public assassination of highest politcal figures, to Katrina’s aftermath & FAILED prevention, to housmade water crises to 9/11 including air safety in NYC, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Ukraine, Russia”Gate” and Libya ( the lastest where a british parliamentary committee came to the conclusion all was based on fraund, wrong or manipulated intelligemce, fake news and utter willingness to go to war !!!)
Go to Wikileaks and pick up whatever topic you like and then read those emails or sources and take a look at public statements and mass-corporate-media so callled articles – some even use the word “Investigative” – they are mostly a parade of distortions, omissions, whitewashing, lies, imputations of others, doctored statistcal numbers, faked sources & intelligence and so on, and on and on….
Go to ShadowStatistics ( shadowstats.com ) and take a look at official economical released data & stats.!!??
Fox is as much propaganda as CNN & Co.!!! Americans are the most brainwashed public ever. It ‘s just a question of the topic of how much truth is actually appropriate. It’s all shrouded in double standards, hypocrisy and mendacity aka exceptionalism for decades now.
Libya War
https://www.globalresearch.ca/libya-war-was-based-on-lies-bogus-intelligence-nato-supported-and-armed-the-rebels-british-parliamentary-report/5547356
How China learned about SARS-CoV-2 in the weeks before the global pandemic
April 8, 2020
Vijay Prashad is an Indian historian, editor and journalist.
https://www.newcoldwar.org/how-china-learned-about-sars-cov-2-in-the-weeks-before-the-global-pandemic/
Japan, China and Taiwan Reports on the Origin of the Virus
https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_87277.shtml
Chinese Socialism versus American Capitalism
Dealing with the COVID-19 Pandemic
by Kim Petersen / March 21st, 2020
https://dissidentvoice.org/2020/03/chinese-socialism-versus-american-capitalism/
Self-delusional US can only beat Covid-19 if it stops blaming China and faces up to its own pandemic mistakes
https://www.newcoldwar.org/self-delusional-us-can-only-beat-covid-19-if-it-stops-blaming-china-and-faces-up-to-its-own-pandemic-mistakes/

Posted by: Ashino | Apr 16 2020 15:41 utc | 152

How US media dish out their own propaganda on China and Covid-19: SCMP columnist
The USA has transcended the post-truth stage; it is now at the post-lie stage.

Posted by: vk | Apr 16 2020 16:24 utc | 154

@ 159 likklemore… covid has been a bit of a nightmare for capitalism! i am trying to honour b’s request to talk non covid here, lol… it is hard to do!!

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2020 16:36 utc | 156

The Coronavirus 19 seems to be delivering on its promise. POMPOMPUS was on TV just minutes ago saying China did the Virus .. When wall street crashes, the gold taken from the governed, will be return to the governed from whom it was taken, and the likely best investment may turn out to be in companies that manufacturer and operate Guillotines and the like. Gun sales are going through the roof.
I cannot see small business tolerating this wall street ripoff for long?

Posted by: snake | Apr 16 2020 17:04 utc | 158

Let’s see if this link to Pepe Escobar’s FB works as it’s to a note he posted about a Bill Gates tweet back on 12/19/19 that seems to show foreknowledge of the coming pandemic. Well, I tested it during the edit process, and it doesn’t go directly to the item for me, although I do get his FB page. The tweet also lends credence to the veracity of the November intel report leaked by NBC. I’d say it’s yet another lead in the mystery.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2020 17:06 utc | 160

@James,
I write to stay as sane as possible.
thanks to b for this forum and everyone who is constructively chiming in.

Posted by: lizard | Apr 16 2020 17:17 utc | 162

@ james
honouring b’s request the thread should be non-COVID-19.
Yes try as we might, all topics in today’s surreal world are COVID-19 related. All aspects of Life, forever changed. …..over the next 18 months until the new normal is launched.
The economic carnage. Weddings, funerals, sports events put on hold.
Going to the Post Office for the mail is considered non-essential but the USPS remains open and mail sorted. !!!!?
Politics: will the GOP-DEM convention be virtual?
Shameless and immune from C-19? No, very serious –
Warren says she would accept an offer to be Biden’s running mate

Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 16 2020 17:54 utc | 164

snake | Apr 15 2020 17:35 utc | 4
No, this device is a complete scam. A very long-lasting scam at that! It was originally marketed as a “lost golf ball finder” and then, somehow, sold to the British armed forces as a “Mine detector” and was used for years by them, in spite of ordinary soldiers complaining that they were “effing useless”, which they were. Now it seems, someone has sold the same device to the IRGC as a covid-19 detector! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29459896

Posted by: foolisholdman | Apr 16 2020 18:01 utc | 166

I see that the topic of oil is ignored in “open thread”, I guess many of us forgot what is (a liquid contained in some rocks)? and what it is for (does it have any?)
Whatever it is for, one of the main aims of foreign and military policy of USA and (some?) allies was to secure the supply of that liquid. Now there are problems with finding enough storage. There was a short periods when it looked that Trump with convince enough oil producers to cut production and lift the oil prices. It would not do to render our main achievements worthless. But now, rather than rejoicing that are government secured all the supplies of oil that we may need, and more!, there are worries about some sinister armada of supertankers from KSA is sailing towards USA where nobody seems to ask for it. Western hemisphere has way more than enough.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Apr 16 2020 18:20 utc | 168

cirsium @170–
Yeah, just as the many pages of the so-called Patriot Act were already waiting to be distributed as soon as the anthrax made its debut. Deliberately making people sick and then profiting from the remedy is similar in its nature to the so-called fight against cancer where stopping the introduction of carcinogens into the environment would be very effective while science works on a genuine antidote, but notice how hard such a cessation’s fought against, as is the Precautionary Principle upon which it’s based. As usual, I point back to the US Congress’s approving lead to be added to gasoline despite its very well known toxic effects. Why the hell bother establishing a Food & Drug Administration to examine the wholesomeness of those products when you’re going to allow the mass poisoning of society?

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2020 18:24 utc | 170

Good little article by Gowans–
https://gowans.blog/
“How the US intends to keep its group of corporate marauders on top”

Posted by: arby | Apr 16 2020 18:53 utc | 172

Posted by: vk | Apr 16 2020 16:24 utc | 159
How US media dish out their own propaganda on China and Covid-19: SCMP columnist
Thanks vk, Alex Lo one of my very few favorites in SCMP in opinion section, he lived in Canada… From what I gather Jack Ma (Alibaba) member of CCP, How on earth he allow SCMP to be so anti-China, with Taiwanese born Gary Liu, CEO? Fair and balance that what I expect right? Are there conspirator theory behind it? Please share…
It bring me back to Far Eastern Economic Review and Asia Magazine…. both demised. BTW Far Eastern Economic Review original publisher were Australian…. sold to Dow Jones….I’m not new to the commie stuff,
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/the-raffles-conversation/old-school-newsman

Posted by: JC | Apr 16 2020 19:07 utc | 174

lizard | Apr 16 2020 16:56 utc | 162
re the risk of telling truth…
The author Kenneth Rexroth publ part of his autobiogtaphy under the title “An Autobiographical Novel” to protect from, well…reaction to truth.
The journalist George Seldes wrote “Tell The Truth And Run” , an insider view of risk in news publishing.

Posted by: chu teh | Apr 16 2020 21:38 utc | 176

Dow 6000, S&P 850, Oil $12, Gold $3500 oz
Unemployment 32%
Mathematically Guaranteed

Posted by: Hannibal | Apr 16 2020 23:00 utc | 178

@ Jen 185
Could also mention this:
The Brutal History of Japan’s ‘Comfort Women’
Between 1932 and 1945, Japan forced women from Korea, China and other occupied countries to become military prostitutes.
The end of World War II did not end military brothels in Japan. In 2007, Associated Press reporters discovered that the United States authorities allowed “comfort stations” to operate well past the end of the war and that tens of thousands of women in the brothels had sex with American men until Douglas MacArthur shut the system down in 1946.
Wunderful luvly caring people those Japanese and Yankees.

Posted by: mm | Apr 17 2020 1:12 utc | 180

Walter #142

This seems to imply that the problem is not sociopaths but money…which is to say disproportional power supported by ill-suited customs and ways of seeing and doing.

Nicely put, take away the fuel and the brazier dies down to a warm glow. Its that simple.
So in the case of the filthy rich: TAX THEM HARD. If they must invest as a therapeutic need, then they can ‘invest’ (read GIFT) in the supply side of the Occupy Food Co-op in each population centre. BUT they can only invest on the cooperatives members’ terms.
Otherwise their only other therapy option is to turn the compost pile weekly.
Socialism with a shovel.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 17 2020 3:35 utc | 182

Anya Parampil exposes the Sr. Cuomo as a corporate hack.
From Grayzone; https://thegrayzone.com/2020/04/16/andrew-cuomo-governors-randy-credico/

Posted by: ben | Apr 17 2020 3:47 utc | 184

Prepare for a fresh new onslaught of racist, jingoistic, Sinophobic bullshit. A review of fatalities since January in Wuhan has re-categorized 1290 deaths as due to America’s covid bio warfare attack on China.
Mindless, mass media consuming, remote-controlled zombies will now begin chanting in unison “See? We were right! They were hiding the real numbers!”.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 17 2020 12:11 utc | 186

This is a well balanced analysis of the Sanders campaign in the Democratic Primaries:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/04/17/bernie-sanders-tests-the-limits-of-the-us-political-system/

Posted by: bevin | Apr 17 2020 15:43 utc | 188

@foolisholdman #172
It is a safety measure. Just refresh the page – your content, etc should still be there and you can just hit the “post” button.

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 17 2020 16:36 utc | 190

Macron installed Etat d’urgence sanitaire on march 22nd.Three days later his government made ordonnance making possible the immediate installation of 5G-antennae,without private or corporate owner’s permission,neither mayor ,city counsel,whatever.
I was alerted by email,for a petition to sign.
https://urgencesantepas5g.wesign.it/fr
To whom it concerns.

Posted by: willie | Apr 17 2020 19:29 utc | 192

David F,
I am Russian American. I am in America, lived most of my life in Russia. That gives me a two-side perspective. That’s why I commented on your lament about being jealous and that somewhere is better than here. The only place that is better is here and now, where we are. I mean where everyone of us is. Because it is where and when we can do something. This is such a trivial thing, but, I suppose, it needs to be reminded. As of your opinion that it is better (easier?) in Russia than here right now, you are mistaken. Of course Russia lucky to have Putin; he is a blessing. As I see it, he caught Russia at the very edge of an abyss, gave people a breather. But how long can he hold it? His party is actually playing a role in the destruction of Russia. Putin is really a double blessing because people can’t complain that they don’t have a good leader but have to finally figure out themselves what to do. And it is a fight on a deeper level; a fight to save the foundations of Russian society (the most important one – family).
I’ll share my opinion from the “other side”, too. I am impressed with the level of propaganda here, in the US. It is astonishing. The way it is done is a masterpiece in itself – cutting edge propaganda pushing cognitive dissonance to the limit. I think that’s why, for example, when Putin or b, on this blog, state something simply, naming things by their names, it clicks, makes sense. Taken out of the propagandized, scripted narrative, things make sense.

Posted by: teatree | Apr 17 2020 21:32 utc | 194

teatree #200
Well said. Here and now is where we all are. So the next action is the first step to betterment.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 18 2020 2:20 utc | 196

The new Labour Leader (Kier Starmer) refused to publish all the donations to his campaign until’ after he was elected (he was only following the “rules”). “The Canary” reveals that he has been funded by Trevor Chinn, a member of the executive committee of the British Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) – a pro-Israel lobby group:
Keir Starmer received £50,000 donation from pro-Israel lobbyist in leadership bid
Fake and exaggerated allegations of antisemitism were a significant element in what destroyed the previous leader, Jeremy Corbyn. There has never, and will never be a leader (or Prime Minister) which such a history and genuine natural ease with not giving offence to any ‘group’ as Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn extended this to other nations and nationalities without favour or exception – so he treated Israeli and Palestinian utterly equally and by the same standard; it was this that Israel feared. The strong impression is left that a foreign government (Israel) – using a lobbyist – has conspired with Starmer to change the leader of the Labour Party to one who is much more conducive.

Posted by: ADKC | Apr 18 2020 7:16 utc | 198

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 18 2020 10:12 utc | 205
I am Amurkin, 75 in June, and I’ve been avoiding all US health-care for around 20 years, except acute care for specific things (three root canals, a basal-cell carcinoma on my back, new glasses), and I attribute my relative good health to that. If I took advice, I’d be on various prescription drug regimens that would make me feel like shit and cost a bundle, plus having to sit around in doctor’s offices all the time. My three dead brothers all were under lots of US health care and they all told me I had to manage my own care, so I do. Saved a boatload of money too. The day is long gone when health-care here was good for you, especially if you are old.

Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 18 2020 11:10 utc | 200