Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 01, 2020

China Did Not Deceive Us - Counting Death During An Epidemic Is Really Difficult

The anti-China campaign, which the Deputy National Security Advisor Matthew Pottinger is running, presented its April fools joke. It leaked to Bloomberg that a secret U.S. Intelligence Report claims that China concealed the real numbers of its Covid-19 cases:

China has concealed the extent of the coronavirus outbreak in its country, under-reporting both total cases and deaths it’s suffered from the disease, the U.S. intelligence community concluded in a classified report to the White House, according to three U.S. officials.
...
While China eventually imposed a strict lockdown beyond those of less autocratic nations, there has been considerable skepticism of China’s reported numbers, both outside and within the country. The Chinese government has repeatedly revised its methodology for counting cases, for weeks excluding people without symptoms entirely, and only on Tuesday added more than 1,500 asymptomatic cases to its total.

Stacks of thousands of urns outside funeral homes in Hubei province have driven public doubt in Beijing’s reporting.

China did not conceal its number of Covid-19 cases. Nor did it hold back any information.

Reporting numbers during an outbreak of a new disease is actually very difficult.

When does one start to count? China only knew that it had a new virus epidemic in early January. By then those who died during the month before were already cremated. How could it count them?

Does one include co-morbids or not in the count? What about casualties of a car accident that also test positive for Covid-19 when they die? What about those who died with Covid-19 symptoms but could not be tested for lack of test kits? Are the tests really working reliably? At one point China included all pneumonia cases in the Covid-19 case count even after they tested negative for Covid-19. The Chinese epidemiologists thought that their test had been wrong and only later found out that that was not the case.

What about asymptomatic cases that test positive. Are these false positives or do these people really have the virus? One can only know that by testing them a month later for antibodies. If they developed antibody cells against the virus they must have had it. That may well be the reason why China only now added the 1.500 asymptomatic cases to its total count.

The most important number during an outbreak is the one that lets one plan for resources and model for countermeasures. That number is the Case Fatality Rate.


bigger

But that is the wrong number if one asks how likely one is to die of the disease:

You may have heard a term being used: the “case fatality rate”, or CFR. That is the number of deaths divided by the number of confirmed cases. When journalists talk about the “death rate”, that’s often what they are referring to. If a country has 10,000 confirmed cases and 100 deaths, then the CFR in that country is (100/10,000), or 1%.

That is not what we are looking for, and it is probably not even very close to what we are looking for.

Instead what we want is the “infection fatality rate”, or IFR. That is the number of deaths divided by the number of people who actually have the disease. The number of people who have tested positive for the disease is probably only a fraction of the total number who had it, because only a fraction of the population has actually been tested. 

Obviously, the IFR is much harder to determine accurately. The only people getting tested will be the people who are most ill, so your IFR is probably much lower than your CFR, because your denominator — the number you’re dividing by — is probably much bigger. 

So if your country has tested absolutely everyone and found all cases of the disease, then your IFR is the same as your CFR, or 1%. But if it has only found 10% of the people with the disease, then your 10,000 confirmed cases are just the tip of a 100,000-person iceberg. With those 100 deaths, your IFR would be (100/100,000) or 0.1%.

China, and everyone who followed its data, knew that the number of cases were different from the number of infections. But we did not know by how much. It was also clear that China was not counting all Covid-19 death. Italy shows how that problem arises:

As hospitals become overcrowded, patients are being asked to stay at home until they display the most serious symptoms. Many will die in their houses or nursing homes and may not even be counted as Covid-19 cases unless they’re tested post-mortem.

Last week, two researchers from northern Italy made this point forcefully when looking at Nembro, a small town near Bergamo that has been very severely hit by the outbreak. Writing in Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera they found there had been 158 deaths in the town in 2020 so far, as opposed to 35 on average in the previous five years. They noted that Nembro had only counted 31 deaths from Covid-19, which looks like an underestimate.

In other towns nearby, including Bergamo itself, the trend seemed identical. The researchers made the point that the only reliable indicator in the end will be “excess deaths” — namely, how many more people have died in total compared to a “normal” year.

Death per month in Bergamo over the last ten years*

*The data refer to deaths until March 26th 
Source - bigger

The UK produces two different numbers. The Office for National Statistics says that it counts more Covid-19 death than the official GOV.UK site by the Department of Health and Social Care:

  • We include all deaths where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate, even if only suspected: the GOV.UK figures are only those deaths where the patient had a positive test result
  • We include deaths that happened anywhere in England and Wales, for example some might be in care homes: the GOV.UK figures are only those that happened in hospital.

The definition who to count can change over time and not only in China:

[C]ountries may have good reasons to change the way they collect data as circumstances change, but it apparently happens often enough that the World Health Organisation feels that they have to ask countries to notify them when they do it. Famously, China did so earlier in the epidemic, but others do too: in complying with the WHO’s request, Australia has noted that it has changed its definition of a Covid-19 “case” (and therefore a Covid-19 “death”) at least 12 times since 23 January. 

As for the number of urns delivered to funeral homes in Hubei after the quarantine was lifted one has also to consider the number of regular death. Hubei province has some sixty million inhabitants. The regular mortality rate in China is 726 per 100.000 inhabitants per year. The regular expected number of death from January 1 to March 31 in Hubei province without the epidemic was 108.900. In Wuhan, which has 14 million inhabitants, the expected number was 25.410. Photos that show the delivery of a few thousands of urns to large funeral homes in Wuhan are thereby not a sign for a higher Covid-19 death rate. To claim such is propaganda nonsense.

There is no reason to criticize China for publishing incomplete and a times confusing numbers. That is normal during any epidemic and the U.S. will certainly do likewise. The real problem with the various numbers flowing around lies elsewhere.

People do try to make predictions about how many will get infected and die from the virus. These models are needed to prepare ones resources. But prediction is extremely difficult to do as the various models are very sensitive to the input data. A model that works in country A may give the wrong results when it is used for country B. Cities and towns are different. Local circumstances can make huge differences. With the real infection numbers and the real death rate unknown during an outbreak we can only hope that our epidemiologists, who are trained to make and interpret such models, get it right.

To claim that China deceived the U.S. and the world about its numbers or that China tried to make it look as if the epidemic was not as serious as it is makes no sense at all.

China took extreme and drastic measures at high economic costs to prevent a larger outbreak. It did not do that to deceive anyone but because it saw the seriousness of the problem. It acted in the global interest and to defeat the virus.

China gave the world time to prepare for the pandemic. Unfortunately that time was not used well. One reason that the U.S. will now experience a very large outbreak is that it is not willing to follow China's example. If one declares that gun shops and shooting ranges are critical businesses that must stay open during a lockdown one is not serious about fighting the epidemic.

To blame China for that is simply nonsensical.

The real number of casualties the SARS-CoV-19 outbreak will cause will only be known when it is over and when we compare the new death statistics to those of previous years. One thing is assured. The "excess death" numbers will be lower in those countries that did use the time China gave them and prepared for what was coming at them.

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Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the issue:

Posted by b on April 1, 2020 at 18:45 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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That does not excuse allowing people out of China to spread the pandemic, an act of wanton international mass slaughter for which the Chinese have to be brought to justice for.

Posted by: TJ | Apr 1 2020 19:01 utc | 1

TJ @1

Whoever let you out of your mom's basement needs to be brought to justice.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 1 2020 19:10 utc | 2

@TJ
Hindsight is perfect, no one could have predicted the course of events when the situation was still developing.

See also:
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3077442/coronavirus-pathogen-could-have-been-spreading-humans-decades?

Posted by: JK | Apr 1 2020 19:10 utc | 3

TJ - spoken like a true 'murkan savage.

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Apr 1 2020 19:11 utc | 4

thanks b... anything coming from the usa-uk and west msm is quite rich given their predisposition to always paint certain countries in a negative light... i would say the same applies here... i wouldn't take anything the west says on a number of issues without a good grain of salt!! thanks for going over these details...

@ 1 tj.. that is bullshit... where do you get that??? if you live in the usa - the usa can refuse entry to anyone they want and they typically do too! if the usa was so concerned - which they are just catching up on now! - then they can do any number of actions to help themselves...all responsibility does not reside with only one country here... i was looking at flighttracker yesterday... you'd be surprised to see how many international flights are still coming into seattle and la...

Posted by: james | Apr 1 2020 19:12 utc | 5

"in complying with the WHO’s request, Australia has noted that it has changed its definition of a Covid-19 “case” (and therefore a Covid-19 “death”) at least 12 times since 23 January."

12 changes! Deception if it was China. Honesty because it was Australia.

The US performance was described once in a football game by a great sportscaster: "Fumble! Fumble!"

The US has taken a long time (months) to get the tools it needs into position to fight the pandemic. Sadly, the US may have "very accurate" numbers, but they were unnecessary due to their own ineptitude, tardy reaction, poor preparation, and insistence that their Exceptionalism precluded the disaster they are now experiencing.

All the while, the Americans have been blaming China for what befell themselves.

Just ask Trump if he is winning? That's his standard. In no way is the US winning.

However, over across the Pacific, the Chinese are winning, South Korea is winning, Taiwan is winning and Singapore is winning.

How many "models" or "examples" do the Americans need to figure out what to do and what not to do?

Posted by: Red Ryder | Apr 1 2020 19:18 utc | 6

TJ, when you have evidence that the Chinese knew that they had a potential pandemic on their hands, and that they knew this in time to prevent anyone with the disease from leaving China, please present that evidence.

Posted by: R.A. | Apr 1 2020 19:20 utc | 7

Whenever an agent for the Outlaw US Empire points at another nation you can be sure its to distract attention from what it's doing domestically to further impoverish or gain further control over its citizenry. It looks like the equivalent to Bush's "Brownie" is Trump himself, while his attempted excuse--"I'm a cheerleader"--is the real Fool for the day.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 1 2020 19:21 utc | 8

Those dilemmas have always existed in modern medicine. It's astonishing to observe how many people have just found out about them now: nobody was complaining about them before.

Just wait when this pandemic is over and the excess death numbers come out: the shitstorm will be even greater, since excess death is not a statistic central governments usually gather (as you could apply the concept to n diseases and other causes), it being usually collected by third parties with a specific interest. The lack of comparison will fuel even more false narratives.

Westerners must stop with their ideological fanaticism. It will just accelerate your decline.

Posted by: vk | Apr 1 2020 19:22 utc | 9

Whatever deficiencies there might've been in Chinese reporting were not enough to justify the lax response in the West.

Pointing a finger at China is simply misdirection.

People should ask: WHY was the Western response so lax? I address this at my website.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 1 2020 19:24 utc | 10

Open naked disregard for human life and crimes of neglect against the people of the world. Relentless and deliberate decisions for profit no matter the death toll.
Will people finally see the ghules of war and petulance for profit who rules over us and do something?
The record is not good. Just one more election Bernie/Biden/Joe Blow will be elected all will be good in the land of the free.
Democracy nothing but a handmaiden to imperial power and slaughter.

Posted by: Babyl-on | Apr 1 2020 19:26 utc | 11

Serious question: Has America's misnamed "intelligence community" leaked anything truthful to the mass media since the run-up to America attacking Iraq? I have been trying to remember an instance when they have not lied and am having trouble with that so if anyone else knows I would appreciate a quick reminder.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 1 2020 19:28 utc | 13

YouTube watch and listen WHO last question starting from 50:07 and replied from all three WHO panelist Dr. Michael J Ryan, Maria Van Kerkhove and Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus from Switzerland RTS a raciest person by the name (sound like) "Loyoung" .... "China is now counting asymptomatic cases (coronavirus) how can you trust the previous numbers......"

Excellent replies from the WHO panelist

Posted by: JC | Apr 1 2020 19:47 utc | 14

Oops forgot the website

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAHyr35fbf4

Posted by: JC | Apr 1 2020 19:48 utc | 15

Narrative management seeking a scapegoat. US intelligence argues that China officially knew of pandemic in November, and implies that an alleged failure to sound the alarm until end of December created the conditions resulting in US and other countries to be unprepared. This is nonsense. All countries outside of China had more than enough time to prepare. The failing of US leaders and bureaucracy has been exemplified by first allowing identified infected persons to freely wander through NYC, for example, since February, followed by allowing outbreaks within their own military forces.

Deliberate state-sponsored campaigns to create/identify scapegoats has numerous awful precedents historically.

Posted by: jayc | Apr 1 2020 19:48 utc | 16

@8 R.A.

From bs article above

China only knew that it had a new virus epidemic in early January.

Given the experience with SARS they knew it was essential to stop the spread not only in China but globally, the Chinese government did not stop international travel, that was a choice they made, now the rest of the world has to deal with their dead from that choice.

Posted by: TJ | Apr 1 2020 19:50 utc | 17

Exact numbers are not important, but the policies are. The Chinese policy has been very clear right from the beginning: eradicate the virus. It seems to be working. The US policy has been murky from the start, but appears to be : don't eradicate the virus; let it become endemic. The latest evidence for this is a sign next to Trump: "30 Days To Slow The Spread". These two policies are fundamentally incompatible. I am still thinking that Uncle Sam wants to surround China and friends with endemic corona virus.

The US police state which has been evolving for decades has now ripped away the facade of freedom overnight. Where I live the state governor has issued an "executive order" placing us all under house arrest unless we meet certain exceptions, to be decided by ham-fisted bureaucrats and police.

The Governor's order which effectively seizes every resident without a warrant or probable cause or due process of any kind is patently offensive and unconstitutional. Meanwhile there will be no statewide moratorium on rent, mortgages, utilities, so landlords are free to evict tenants who are prohibited from earning a living.

During a press conference she was asked about this. She said talked to a few landlords (who no doubt contribute to her election campaigns) who informed her that a "one-size-fits-all" approach was not acceptable to them.

There are no defined endpoints to these restrictions. Now that the racetracks are closed, instead of betting on dogs and ponies we should start a pool on how long until the whole place explodes like a super volcano. My bet is for the third day of a 90F plus heat wave in Washington DC - probably by mid-June.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Apr 1 2020 19:56 utc | 18

TJ: Why the fuck did any country let in anyone coming from China is the real question one should ask. Of course, China should've closed down its own borders to protect others, but the other governments who willingly did nothing, endangering their very own populations, are even more guilty.
Besides, one can make the same accusation against most countries, to begin with Italy: Why did Italy not close its borders when the virus spread there? The bulk of European infections can be traced back the Northern Italy after all. So, there again, the biggest crime lies with other European governments who failed to fully isolate Italy as soon as it was obvious the infections appeared there.

B: I made the same reasoning, Hubei is big and has plenty of deaths all around. If there were no funerals for more than 2 months, that's a lot of urns lying around.
As for the current "China lied about the numbers", these idiots should've guessed it was serious shit when China put under lockdown a 60-mio people province that was nowhere near rebellion Hong-Kong style. As far as I can see, it's mostly Western asshole leaders deflecting attention and trying to make their people believe they did a good job and no one could've done better, since after all China had a horrendous death rate as well - though I hope most people won't fall for such an obvious lie.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Apr 1 2020 20:01 utc | 19

The Party pulls the same shit the Donald does when he issues his rosy predictions. It is the magical approach to public policy: saying it makes it so. Propaganda. Sometimes it works, sometimes it collides with reality. An Italian epidemiologist I saw the other day said the testing has limits. If you recover, you make get reinfected, or so it would seems. But when the virus load becomes very small, the test can't see it. The reinfection is actually a matter of never actually having recovered. More accurate and sensitive tests and a longer convalescent period might be the answer. On the other hand, there is a grim possibility that the immune response in some people is inadequate to eliminate the virus. Grim.

Posted by: jadan | Apr 1 2020 20:02 utc | 20

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 1 2020 19:24 utc | 11

"Whatever deficiencies there might've been in Chinese reporting were not enough to justify the lax response in the West. Pointing a finger at China is simply misdirection.

Nope simply racist and hatred against the Chinese with passion .... They steal, cheat and lied. PERIOD.

Let me tell you a true short story... My neighbor said to me few weeks ago... The Chinese they never invents anything. They steal, cheats and lied.

BTW he's retired a White claimed 2% native American bloods and a Jehovah Witness church, blah religion!!

Posted by: JC | Apr 1 2020 20:04 utc | 21

Viral mutation may also be at work. But there seems to be a consensus that this virus is relatively stable.

Posted by: jadan | Apr 1 2020 20:05 utc | 22

I remember ZeroHedge pushing the propaganda about the number of urns being delivered. ZH is running one China bashing article after another.

Posted by: AriusArmenian | Apr 1 2020 20:11 utc | 23

@ Posted by: TJ | Apr 1 2020 19:50 utc | 18

We could invert your question: if the West is so superior than China, then why didn't its intelligence system didn't see through China's alleged lies and immediately blocked flights from China to their respective countries?

Either you are superior or you're not. You can't be both at the same time.

The simplest explanation is the correct one:

West’s sense of superiority caused failure to act promptly

Even in this op-ed, the Global Times contained. It didn't mention capitalism's degeneration since 2008, which left it in a very frail state (that's probably why they hired a British analyst to write it).

Posted by: vk | Apr 1 2020 20:18 utc | 24

When will the obvious be seen for what it is? When does it breakthrough to majority of human brains: Suppression works, suppression succeeds - mitigation fails, mitigation kills!

Posted by: Phryne's frock | Apr 1 2020 20:18 utc | 25

Posted by: AriusArmenian | Apr 1 2020 20:11 utc | 24

"I remember ZeroHedge pushing the propaganda about the number of urns being delivered. ZH is running one China bashing article after another."

Not only ZeroHedge but also SCMP... ZeroHedge hates China and the Chinese with passion... ZeroHedge relies their info or sources from: Jennifer Zeng, Epoch Times, Gordon Guthrie Chang. Gatestone Institute, New Tang Dynasty Television, Falun Gong, Guo Wengui, Kyle Bass.....

Posted by: TJ | Apr 1 2020 20:22 utc | 26

Posted by: TJ | Apr 1 2020 20:22 utc | 27

Sorrie blunder cut-N-paste extreem SORRIE>

Posted by: JC | Apr 1 2020 20:24 utc | 27

There were people who were infectious who left China before the Chinese authorities had even identified the COVID-19. The only way to stop an infection entering a country would be to insist that every single visitor to that country remained in quarantine for thirty days after entry. Just imagine the impact on tourism and business. To visit for a one hour business meeting requires two months in quarantine, one month upon entry to the destination country and another month on return to the home country as all countries would be entitled to demand similar quarantine terms.
As for Italy:

He says it looks unlikely that Italy could have done anything to completely prevent the virus from entering. “The only thing we could have done is introducing the current lockdown on 30 January, a decision that was impossible and unthinkable at the time,” he says. Even stopping flights from China might have had no influence at all, he says – new, provisional research suggests that the coronavirus reached Italy from Germany.

Every country in the EU closing its borders to residents of every other country in the EU without good cause couldn't happen. And the UK, which was leaving the EU did nothing at its borders - I read tweets through February and March from air passengers travelling to the UK that were amazed at the lack of testing and quarantine even when fellow passengers clearly displayed the symptoms of COVID-19.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Apr 1 2020 20:30 utc | 28

@25 vk

I never claimed the "West" was superior to China, nice straw man there. Let me be explicit here.

If I park my car at the top of a hill get out and take off the handbrake so the car rolls down the hill into a crowd of people it would be my fault not those in the crowd, in fact it would be the crime of manslaughter as my actions would have foreseeable consequences. The same holds true whether for me and the car or the Chinese government and their not halting all international travel. I understand that criminals always have an excuse, but that is all it is an excuse and crimes are not to be excused, ever.

Posted by: TJ | Apr 1 2020 20:31 utc | 29

I don't take the Chinese figures as precise, as I don't take others. There's always a lot of political massaging.

Posted by: Laguerre | Apr 1 2020 20:35 utc | 30

Rats appear to be scurrying to deflect attention from the ratlines.

Bhadrakumar had an interesting piece up suggesting some truth telling is likely going on in certain circles.

In an exclusive remark, a “source in the Russian Foreign Ministry” told the state news agency Tass:

“In order to unambiguously answer the question about the origin, about where the first case emerged, major research needs to be carried out. So, Washington’s accusing tone in comments against China arouses blatant bewilderment.”

The source then went on to touch on the allegation made in China —namely, that a team of American military personnel had visited Wuhan, China, previously before the outbreak. The Russian Foreign Ministry source said:

“As for “US trace” in the COVID-19 outbreak, we don’t have this data today. However, for a long time we have been watching with concerns the US military and biological activity carried out in direct proximity with our borders. In other words, there are indeed questions for the US.”

Now, a few things must be said right at the outset. Any longtime observer of the Russian state system, media culture and Russian diplomacy would know that Tass, which functions under the supervision of the Kremlin is not in the business of lapping up stray remarks by a moonlighting Russian source.

....Suffice to say, one plausible explanation for the Tass report today is that Moscow has alerted Trump to something that he may not yet be aware of. "

Russia quizzes US on coronavirus’ parentage


William Gruff @14: One hardly needs to leak if one is manning the news desks!

Posted by: Екатери́на | Apr 1 2020 20:37 utc | 31

Safest place to be is ... in a country bordering China

Or to put it another way, every country bordering China has had less than 200 deaths, okay, maybe we can't be certain of what will happen in India and Nepal but we are supposed to trust S. Korea, Taiwan and let's throw in Japan and Russia.

National Review online calls out local hero Tom Cotton
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/the-senator-who-saw-the-coronavirus-coming/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=featured-content-trending&utm_term=first
And they are half right. Allegedly, the sadistic Tom Cotton was sounding the alarm because he reads online websites from East Asia and saw the diabolical lock downs the Chinese were doing in Wuhan and said, 'whooa this is serious'. Good for him. Where were the U.S. Intelligence guys, busy trying to revive the Hong Kong protests? All they had to do was read the CDC public website. On 1/21 the Chinese / CDC reported human to human transmission of the virus to 19 of their healthcare workers https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200122-sitrep-2-2019-ncov.pdf?sfvrsn=4d5bcbca

By 1/27 the CDC reported that the number of infections in China jumped from 500 to 6,000. Great job CIA, you are really watching our backs. Sorry I missed Mardi Gras, I heard it was a great party.

Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Apr 1 2020 20:41 utc | 32

The fact that China had an outbreak of corona virus dose not mean it originated in China !
This virus came from a USA /UK bio warfare lab. Only an April fool would think differently at this stage.

Posted by: Mark2 | Apr 1 2020 20:41 utc | 33

Street-fighting over masks (French region which has been the first cluster following a one-week evangelical gathering and which remains the main clusterd had ordered masks to a Chinese company... but some bullies where in the airport in Shanghai to buy the cargo over and have it going to the US).
http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/des-masques-commandes-par-la-france-rachetes-au-pied-des-avions-par-les-americains-01-04-2020-8292483.php

Posted by: Mina | Apr 1 2020 20:44 utc | 34

When the u.s banned all flights from china why were the Chinese accusing the U.S of being racist?
Look, I'm anti U.S empire but the fact is, everyone fucked up. Including this blog that was saying this was a storm in a teacup.

Why can't we just say everyone screwed up and there was no conspiracy here. Sure the Chinese lied. The U.S lies all the time. The problem is that the Chinese messed up here. You're not going to eradicate this and entire world is left to pick up the pieces. There's no point in blaming China now but it's mindless to claim their response to this crisis is a shining example that others should have followed. That is frankly laughable.

Posted by: adubya | Apr 1 2020 20:45 utc | 35

To follow my post @33 ... my beloved country cannot face the fact that we are inferior in any way. If we suffer it must be because we were attacked by a foreign enemy that we now must destroy. Call it the 9/11 syndrome where we are always the aggrieved party.

As an old book, allegedly revered by our most devout leaders says, 'Pride comes before a fall'.
4,000+ lives is a big price to pay for pride and we are going to keep paying the butcher bill and we are not going to learn from it. If we keep our power this time, we will lose the rest of our power in the next epidemic.

Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Apr 1 2020 20:47 utc | 36

"One hardly needs to leak if one is manning the news desks!" --Екатери́на @32

This is very true. There is no evidence that Operation Mockingbird was ever ended.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 1 2020 20:48 utc | 37

US Politicians never forget that for the past seventy years russophobia and sinophobic racism- both of which have deep roots in the culture- formed the bases of the ideology of anti-communism.
The Democrats, totally discredited by the 2016 Election campaign and decades of Clinton/Obama swings towards the right and away from the old New Deal constituencies, began by accusing Trump of colluding with the Russians- who most of the DNC deliberately suggested, and probably genuinely thought, were Communists.
Trump's response is now to revive the anti-Peoples Republic witch-hunts of the past to use against the Democrats.
We have two discredited old parties, incapable of dealing with the crises facing them, attempting to revive the only ideas that have ever galvanised the US public in their lifetimes: opposition to communism and the racism which underlay just about every US military adventure since 1945- the all purpose anti-gook racism that saw them through the wars against Japan, Korea, IndoChina and the People's Republic.
It is going to make the spectacle of two monkeys throwing shit at each other seem positively restrained- the Democrats howling about Russia and the Republicans, reverting to type, starting up lynch mobs against China.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 1 2020 20:48 utc | 38

For all the Monday morning quarterbacks, factor this in your criticisms: the Chinese, the WHO, the world's experts did not know how infectious this virus was until it was in South Korea. That Korean cult religious group and the spread from there was the first clear sign.

China had its infectious impact in its Wuhan hospitals, when they began losing doctors and nurses to the virus. It was six weeks into the breakout before the scientists understood that the danger was the spread, not the deadliness.

The fear then woke everyone that modern hospitals could not handle the spiral spread, the logarithmic growth potential of COVID-19.

Now, we know that the virus began outside China many months before Wuhan. Probably, summertime 2019. There are a lot of "flu" deaths in the USA which were symptomatic but untested that match COVID-19. Many deaths were caused by that virus in 2019. And there are many survivors who describe the experience identical to those who survive it now.

Dispersing the herd, social distancing, is the most effective tool to mitigate the epidemic potential of this virus. Where that was done, it slowed and died. It needs crowds of people to keep growing and keep going.

Watch it wipe out the crew on the Teddy Roosevelt.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Apr 1 2020 20:51 utc | 39

I will always be amazed at the fascination b have for China and Russia and the promotion of a multi polar world and yet be puzzled at his love for the European union. What matter of craziness is that I still don't know.
I still love you b. Great post as usual.

Posted by: lebretteurfredonnant | Apr 1 2020 20:56 utc | 40

Countries bordering China less than 200 deaths

Just wanted to be clear, since every country bordering China has had less than 200 deaths and at least 3-4 of them are respected in the west and have significant contact w/China, this means that they got the hint. S. Korea, Taiwan, Russia, and Japan (not bordering but in the region), were all able to process the information from the CDC and take adequate measures. Only the U.S. and some countries W. Europe are suffering excessive deaths.

I'm not certain if I made my point clear @33.

Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Apr 1 2020 21:00 utc | 41

More deception by Outlaw US Empire, this time related to the cash disbursements authorized by the just enacted CARES Act, the onetime $1200 "stimulus" that's supposed to last over the next 12 weeks, which is the anticipated length of time for the nationwide shelter-in-place--Mnuchin's callous remarks about the meagerness has drawn well deserved ire from many. One way to measure popular ire against any administration official is the amount of positive propaganda support it suddenly gets, that's why all the Neoliberal rags are running glowworm articles. Remember, Mnuchin was one of those who should've been arrested for his fraud related to the 2007-09 crisis but was let off the hook by Obama.

Global Times delivers a lecture to TrumpCo that will be ignored as usual:

"As long as the US can get rid of its geopolitical mentality and take lessons from the outside world, it will find a way out.

"Second, patients with mild symptoms should be hospitalized. This is a decisive measure to cut the community spread of the novel coronavirus. Hospitals can not only cure people but also isolate the sources of infections. This is why many countries have built makeshift hospitals. Only after patients with mild symptoms are hospitalized will the inflection point appear in the US.

"Third, the pandemic must thoroughly be depoliticized. Partisan struggles and Washington's propaganda campaign to shift blame on China have misled the public and also kidnapped the US government and other political forces. Both the Republicans and Democrats have to think hard over what they should do to put them in a more advantageous position in the upcoming presidential election while considering how to deal with the epidemic. So the most important thing for them is not to reduce deaths, but how to tell stories about deaths." [My Emphasis]

The Chinese know the American Imperialist Mind extremely well. But those within the Outlaw US Empire are so afraid of themselves they can't even hold up a mirror to themselves or question why their beliefs and actions are so immoral. Hyperbole trolls tell quite a tale wile vomiting their bile.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 1 2020 21:01 utc | 42

I dont know what Mr B. has invested in China, but while i agree with just about everything regarding the West's (NATO, US, EU + Israel) shocking and disgusting actions and policies, i don't see how that excludes one from also pointing out China's many flaws and dangers.

From disappearing doctors, totalitarian style surveillance and repression, to the obvious coverup that helped create this pandemic, to the shocking WHO corruption and pro China bias, why are you defending China so much? Were it not for their terrible handling of the outbreak, this whole disaster may have never happened. PRETTY BIG DEAL. Not to mention the elephant in the room, why are so many dangerous viruses coming out of Asia, at least compared to the West anyway?

If China expects to be treated as a First World country, with all of its economic and strategic benefits, then there can be no tolerating of toxic and deadly viruses resulting from their antiquated and questionable food and health practices. McDonalds is disgusting, but it isn't causing global pandemics either, and people can always choose not to buy it.

Sorry, but at some point, to maintain credibility and show objectivity, the finger pointing has to go both ways.

Posted by: EtTu | Apr 1 2020 21:02 utc | 43

It's not clear whether the US intelligence is pushing this anti-China story but Downing street is picking the same angle of attack.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8163767/Downing-Street-says-China-faces-reckoning-coronavirus.html. Mainstream considers these sources trustworthy and China untrustworthy. Also, by nature they inflate newsworthiness and expand the existing storyline. China will be blamed more and more for the Corona crisis.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 1 2020 21:04 utc | 44

The French know better: cleaning the streets to fight the epidemy is not a good idea... "it is bad for the environment" (triple - choked - SIC!!!)
https://www.lemonde.fr/planete/article/2020/04/01/coronavirus-desinfecter-les-rues-inutile-et-dangereux-selon-le-ministere-de-la-sante_6035226_3244.html

Posted by: Mina | Apr 1 2020 21:04 utc | 45

to no one's surprise, social distancing has been extended to 13 April in Italy. We all pretty much knew that the old date of 3 April would not be the end. two more weeks is bearable.

the number of deaths has leveled out though still quite high and the number of new cases has gone down a bit. It is still a mystery to me why there are so many new cases after three weeks.

one thing is certain, I don't ever want to go to prison. I have a single family home with a yard and can go outside whenever want so it is not that bad. Others who live in condominiums are not so lucky and suffer a lot.

we tell ourselves that it is for a good reason and soldier on.

Posted by: dan of steele | Apr 1 2020 21:07 utc | 46

I read this in January. https://mobile.twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1221486205847646208/photo/1 Given the risk of great harm that COVID-19 could cause, and the ability to see what was going on in China, Western governments should have been doing everything in their power to fight this epidemic. The failure to act in a reasonable and responsible manner months ago will lead to the deaths of tens of thousands of people. Our governments are completely responsible and have blood on their hands.

“If only China did ..........” is complete bullshit. We had plenty of warnings, which our governments ignored. One or two more warnings wouldn’t have made a difference.

Posted by: TimmyB | Apr 1 2020 21:10 utc | 47

No wonder that the official directive is: Name it "Chinese virus". Firstly, pindos use to be salesmen, and advertising has top priority, in particular when you got bad press reports such as "The big question will continue to haunt the world community: Was the coronavirus originally conceived in the womb of a Pentagon lab developing biological weapons?" (https://indianpunchline.com/russia-quizzes-us-on-coronavirus-parentage/)
Secondly, it seems they had been caught by surprise. Thus the shock delay until media and disinformation power sets in. Now it is full barrage, and you know what can be done by this machinery when you look how many people are aware to the recent WTC7 study, the nanothermite research findings, the profiteers betting on falling airline stocks, and ...oops... the letters with weapon-grade anthrax definitely stemming from a US bioweapon facility sent to two senators who opposed the US version of the 1933 Enabling Act.
Thirdly, the hypothesis raised by the Indian paper - "Moscow knows fully well from past experiences that the POTUS may not always be kept briefed on the shenanigans of the cold warriors in the US intelligence and defence establishment" - looks plausible, in particular since designing a deadly virus from the scratch is not anymore the priviledge of military installations. There are hundredes of research facilities and companies out there which could do it, and their contracts are managed by transnationals acting globally, such as Quintiles; outsourcing by JASON via MITRE Corporation is ading to the shady mix of full spectrum intransparency. Malthus is famous among many 0.1%ers.

Posted by: Kassandra | Apr 1 2020 21:14 utc | 48

After the news came out about the crews of the two carriers Theodore Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan being infected, the Defense Department stopped reporting coronavirus in the military. Sounds serious.
Posted by: lysias | Mar 31 2020 22:09 utc | 99
____

The US govt has refused to release details about the respiratory problems of the five US military officers that went to Wuhan to attend the intl military games in October, 2019. They got treatment in Wuhan for respiratory problems. They did not appear to have regular pneumonia, because they later infected the hotel workers where the US military stayed, which was near the Wuhan wet market. This was back in October, before anyone was aware of or testing for the virus.

Presumably, the Chinese govt could test those hotel workers for antibodies, to see if their October illness was indeed COVID-19. Perhaps China has already done that, and has not publicized what they know.

The virus could well have been circulating among the US military before it hit the general population. It would be interesting to know the docking schedules of the US carrier(s) that have reported infections recently. Carriers are at sea for long stretches at a time, so the infection was either already among the personnel before docking, or was transmitted to them at a deboarding site. Knowing the carrier's docking schedule would therefore furnish precise dates to figure out the timeline of when the carrier's population was first infected.

Right now, we know that the USS Theodore Roosevelt has 70 infections, as per the WSJ. According to this article, the USS Roosevelt left the shore on January 17, which seems to indicate the virus was already among the navy officers before mid January.

The Roosevelt and its associated battle group departed San Diego on Jan. 17 and was amid a deployment to the western Pacific when its first crew member was found to have COVID-19.

Who knows how many other cases there were in the US military, which has stopped reporting cases to the public.

Posted by: occupatio | Apr 1 2020 21:16 utc | 49

TJ:
Is the US allowing people out (besides the reciprocal agreements with Canada and Mexico)?

Posted by: Keith McClary | Apr 1 2020 21:27 utc | 50

Ah yet another Hyperbole Troll selling Two Minutes of Hate confirm b's doing an excellent job with his reportage. As the Global Times article I linked above concludes confirming my initial point about this made back in January:

"The COVID-19 pandemic clearly shows that the biggest threat to the US is no longer from geopolitics, but from the natural world, as it is the case to all people. Reflections on this fact will inevitably influence the reconstruction of the world order after the pandemic. As long as the US faces up to this fact, it can concentrate its strength to launching a decisive battle against the coronavirus." [My Emphasis]

Regarding the ongoing War between the Unseen World and Humanity, we have this bit of info:

"The first influenza pandemic was recorded in 1580, and since then, influenza pandemics occurred every 10 to 30 years."

The average then is one flu pandemic every 20 years, which means I've lived through 3, and if this is classified as flu, then 4, for I intend to not become a statistic yet.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 1 2020 21:33 utc | 51

@ Posted by: TJ | Apr 1 2020 20:31 utc | 30

You mean, when China warned the USG at January 3rd? When it warned the WHO the same day? That data alone already bust the anti-communist theory of the "whistleblower" of December 30th. That doctor, by the way, continued to fight the epidemic until his death - he didn't defect to the West (which would be the natural reaction of a political refugee).

If the CCP was covering up the pandemic and that deceased doctor knew for an absolute fact it was a pandemic at December 30th, then why didn't his first reaction to be to flee at least to South Korea and Japan to warn those governments about the pandemic first-hand? Again, there's only so much a scriptwriter can force the plot of a movie.

After the USG was first warned at January 3rd, the scandal of insider trading among the senators of the intelligence committee begun. They sat on those reports for more than one month, when they sold en masse their stock at the beginning of February in order to cash in big bucks. That's not an action a blindsighted government would take. Yes, they got lucky Trump bet on the "it's a hoax" narrative for one full month, but they had the reports, they could've acted.

By January 23rd, the Chinese discovered the virus was highly contagious, and was transmissible human to human. It was only then it was realized the virus had the potential to be a pandemic. You see, viruses don't come with a label "I'm a pandemic" - you have to do scientific investigation to find that out, and that takes time.

All that means the USG had, worst case scenario, one full month to lockdown the entire country. With Boeing on the ropes, and the airliners belaguered, I guess closing the country to foreign flights wouldn't happen so soon. And the insider trading scandal happened in the first week of February. This means that China's pandemic warning was buried by the USG for more than two weeks. Even after the virus came to Washington, Trump was still betting on the hoax narrative.

Even now, Trump still hasn't declared any quarantine. China did everything in less than one month. If a virus has talent to be a pandemic, it will be a pandemic: there's no technology in today's world to stop it (maybe in the very distant future, in a sci-fy worthy society, that reality changes, but that's not the case now). What are you insinuating? That, if Trump had three more weeks, the USA would be spared?

Posted by: vk | Apr 1 2020 21:33 utc | 52

TimmyB #49

There was plenty of evidence in the USA dating back to June 2019. The CDC has evidence sufficient to close a US military bio warfare base. Unheard of. What evidence do they have of leaks and what types of leaks. The CDC has much evidence and test material relating to vaping.

Release all USA evidence.

The USA perpetrated a crime against humanity in 2019 by enabling the USA military games team to train at Fort Detrick which it knew was leaking pathogens and then allowing that contaminated team to go to China.

Release all evidence.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 1 2020 21:40 utc | 53

B, what's your take on www.filmyourhospital.com? If unfamiliar, it's a website that citizen reporters are posting videos from across the country, no the world, of empty hospital waiting rooms, empty testing tents, idle ambulances; in stark contrast to Andrew Cuomo's remark that NY hospitals are like a war zone.
It's getting more and more views, and maybe a difference.

Posted by: joetv | Apr 1 2020 21:51 utc | 54

I am willing to entertain the thought that purposefully minimizing your reported cases, including mortality figures, is beneficial at the outset for a country such as China who is trying to minimize contagion to its financial and speculative globalized market and who honestly believes that, "we got this covered," although nature truly has the final say in how it wants to cull us puny humans.

For me, this also fits into my overall notion of the Chinese that they love their business, they love to undercut, and they don't ever want to put themselves willlfully in a position of uncompetitive disadvantage.

For those who will jump at my jugular for saying the above here, hold on for a second.

I am not saying that China purposefully withheld figures to hurt their foreign counterparts. We are talking about the same markets that they flood their products with. It makes absolutely no sense that they would do this unless they wanted to purposefully paint themselves as clandestine harbingers of pestilence.

On the other hand, as I wrote above, if they felt their market share would be impacted...that is another story. Hell, Trump is trying to light the fire under our asses to get back to work posthaste. I see little daylight between the purported withholdings from China to the global community and Trump's sugarcoating of the situation.

As an American who views globalism as a blight on the passage of human history, it makes very little sense to me that any country, with the exception of the retards in Sweden, would put the global community ahead of their own nationals. China has not violated this natural law at least to my knowledge.

It stands to reason, then, that there are very few trustworthy actors on the globalist stage and nationals the world over would do very well to try to use this opportunity to look for avenues to curb their import economies and focus on revamping domestic production. Why trust the word of foreign leaders when it is not an imperative?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Apr 1 2020 21:51 utc | 55

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 1 2020 21:40 utc | 56

Also note that prior to Jan. the CDC was coordinating activities related to a type of pneumonia that was not responding to antibiotics (as it was viral).

I wouldn't doubt that the CDC was acting as cover for the US (on the CIA/whoever's orders) to delay having to announce anything about the CoV-19 until long past the time of the soldiers returning from Wuhan and the incubation period.

After all, the US has a exceptional record of interfering with groups that want to point the finger at the US malfeasance. Just look at the OPCW, the ICC, and others. I am of the opinion the the US deep state has many, many evil-minded persons within it.

Posted by: naiverealist | Apr 1 2020 21:55 utc | 56

Believe what the government tells me? Any government and every government lies and can’t stop lying.

Look at most recent photo of Xi standing on a dock with a big ship behind him. As blatant as photoshop work gets. A skilled cut and paste artist could do better. In recent years China has had very high production values, they have been very good at pomp and circumstance. Xi was always photographed well, always looked good, always radiated power and confidence. Whoever has custody of his image is messing up. Has not convincingly made an appearance since January. And we are supposed to believe China has it all under control?

Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 1 2020 21:55 utc | 57

nyc update is available, for anyone interested.

here [nyc.gov]

* daily hospitalizations and deaths continue to appear to have leveled off. (yes this might possibly mean parts of the medical system are saturated and/or people are staying away.)
* a pattern of reduced daily cases (i.e. tests) on weekend days is now visible. hopefully will help clarify future numbers. In any case, this metric was saturated (tests are rationed) all along, so is not very useful to judge the status of the general population.

final anecdotal piece of information, new to me at least. The amount of time between "mild" symptoms (i.e. fever) and "serious" (i.e. lung/cardio function) can be fairly long, well over 10 days.

Posted by: ptb | Apr 1 2020 21:56 utc | 58

I dont know what Mr B. has invested in China, but while i agree with just about everything regarding the West's (NATO, US, EU + Israel) shocking and disgusting actions and policies, i don't see how that excludes one from also pointing out China's many flaws and dangers.

From disappearing doctors, totalitarian style surveillance and repression, to the obvious coverup that helped create this pandemic, to the shocking WHO corruption and pro China bias, why are you defending China so much? Were it not for their terrible handling of the outbreak, this whole disaster may have never happened. PRETTY BIG DEAL. Not to mention the elephant in the room, why are so many dangerous viruses coming out of Asia, at least compared to the West anyway?

If China expects to be treated as a First World country, with all of its economic and strategic benefits, then there can be no tolerating of toxic and deadly viruses resulting from their antiquated and questionable food and health practices. McDonalds is disgusting, but it isn't causing global pandemics either, and people can always choose not to buy it.

Sorry, but at some point, to maintain credibility and show objectivity, the finger pointing has to go both ways.

Posted by: EtTu | Apr 1 2020 21
———

@B you should be honored since your blog seems more popular than expected to attract readers that even NPC do find their way to your page.


No you did not get them by eating bats.
— and those circulating video is from Indonesia and Thailand.
That's not how viruses works and that's not how cross species transmission works either.

Posted by: Lucci | Apr 1 2020 21:57 utc | 59

>[for] China ... there can be no tolerating of toxic and deadly
>viruses resulting from their antiquated and questionable food and health practices.

Pot, meet Kettle...


CDC estimates 48 million people get sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 3,000 die from foodborne diseases each year in the United States.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Apr 1 2020 21:57 utc | 60

CCD DSU numbers for April 1, 2020

Spain hasn't caught Italy yet - we'll see if that happens in the next week.
There are more Spain confirmed cases as a percentage of 10M population than Italy. Spain nCOV mortality right at the cusp of 2000 (1966) vs. Italy's 2164

New York inches ever closer to 1000 (998) per 10M mortality.

Germany now at 11.8 tests per confirmed nCOV case vs. 5.71 for the US overall and 2.64 vs. New York.

Willis Eschenbach notes that there seems to be no difference in nCOV epidemiological trajectory between all of the different Western nations. Most are locking down to some extent, some have not or have just started - yet the progression seems to same. Belgium has a worse trajectory than Spain, Netherlands is between Spain and Italy, and UK and Germany are on almost identical trajectories.
The US is actually doing better than any of the European nations except France, trajectory wise...

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 1 2020 22:00 utc | 61

@43 c. Chuba

Taking a guess, but with our leaky borders and business relations with China, I bet it is far easier for business travelers going to and from China and the U.S. then it is walking across the Chinese border into its neighboring countries or vice versa.

Linh Dinh, a Vietnamese-American writer living in Vietnam and Laos currently, has stated that looking over the border into Chinese cities is like viewing North Korea from space...people are home, but the lights are out. Like Chuck Heston in The Omega Man.

"Beauty film, eh."

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Apr 1 2020 22:00 utc | 62

What kind of coolaid have you drunk b? Whatever you are smoking, the rest of the world needs it too!

The epicentre of the global pandemic was in China, in Wuhan, barely 20km from the only BSL4 level lab in the country, incidentally one which dealt with viruses. What is the probability of the virus being the result of natural causes when the epicentre of the global pandemic is within a 20km radius of a major viral research laboratory - the only in the country with level 4 designation? No matter, China is not responsible. In fact, it is a hero because it stopped the viral pandemic in the country with only 81k infected and around 3k deaths. No matter that the number of funeral urns being delivered to the crematoriums near the epicentre in the last couple of months exceeds multiple times that number.

Now it seems china can't count. A person dying in an accident might have covid-19 it seems. Doesn't matter if there was no traffic because of the lockdown. China could have done the world a favor by releasing the actual number of people who died because of the virus. Is that difficult to count? Then release the total number of dead in that timeframe and subtract from it last year's deaths. But no, the CCP had to lie to protect its non-existent reputation.

Had the CCP been honest enough to release the real extent of the epidemic and the actual number of dead, the world would not have underestimated it so and thousands of people need not have died in the rest of the world. The deaths lie at the door of the CCP.

In Alice in Wonderland, the red queen said she could believe six impossible things before breakfast. b is exceeding her. bravo!

Posted by: ancientarcher | Apr 1 2020 22:02 utc | 63

Here's western logic.

1. China lie and shouldn't be trusted for their data.
–––Did nothing despite their skepticism.
2. Criticizing China's 'draconian' and 'autocratic' quarantine and lockdown.
–––Found themselves debating whether they had to do the same whilst their cases and fatalities growing.
3. Don't believe that China's got their epidemic under control.
–––while literally being given medical aid in expertise, materials, and goods. Sane people wouldn't give away what they needed themselves didn't they ? Just like how EU countries ban medical equipment export to Italy due to concerns of their own potential cases.

Posted by: Lucci | Apr 1 2020 22:07 utc | 64

Thank you for cutting through the anti-Chinese propaganda.

It gives out a very very negative image of the US mentality. The country is just as nihilistic (amoral and actively selfish and immoral) as the USSR was under the bolsheviks. China in contrast embraces Confucianism and real moral values.

It is indeed hard to count cases and fatalities in case of an epidemic. France is soon to release a catch-up update on the number of fatalities, as deaths in nursing homes haven't been counted so far.

Posted by: Jean-Marie L. | Apr 1 2020 22:08 utc | 65

It appears that blaming China is not enough!

Trump is now 'wagging the dog' via ...

  • a big push against drug traffickers in Carribean

    Venezuela is explicitly a target - this is clearly mean to create an opportunity for anti-Maduro chest-beating and may be thinly-veiled preparation for military action

  • warning about Iran-backed "sneak attack" in Iraq.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 1 2020 22:08 utc | 66

Surprise. Surprise.

The shit (or pandemic) hits the fan, and the Americans are desperately looking for a foreign political patsy to blame--and direct anger away from their own belated and criminally negligent response to the coronavirus, not to mention the massive corporate bailout that is being propagandized as a coronavirus economic "rescue" package.

The Trump administration’s incompetent and criminally negligent response to the coronavirus outbreak
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/02/29/pers-f29.html?view=print

I am shocked. NOT.

The Anglo Americans and West in general are liars from top to bottom and specialize in smear campaigns against their geopolitical adversaries.

Call it Perfidious Albion 2.0

Why should anyone trust the Anglo-Americans' phony intelligence given their serial deceptions like Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction; chemical weapons use in Syria (like Douma); the Skripal poisoning and Novichuk; Russia meddling in American democracy; regime change operations disguised as pro-democracy movements in Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Hong Kong; and of course the Big Lie called the War on Terrorism and the 9-11 Reichstag Fire?

And I wonder if this American "intelligence" is the result of the recent White House cable directed to multiple government agencies to hype up the "blame China" meme in official communications about this pandemic?

It's purely coincidental of course that this intelligence comes right on the heels of this White House directive and is pushing the same propaganda line that the Trump Regime ordered:

"As the number of coronavirus cases continues to grow at a rapid pace in the U.S., the White House is launching a communications plan across multiple federal agencies that focuses on accusing Beijing of orchestrating a “cover-up” and creating a global pandemic, according to two U.S. officials and a government cable obtained by The Daily Beast.

The cable, sent to State Department officials Friday, lays out in detail the circumstances on the ground in China, including data on coronavirus cases and deaths, the local business environment and transportation restrictions. But it also issues guidelines for how U.S. officials should answer questions on, or speak about, the coronavirus and the White House’s response in relation to China.

The talking points appear to have originated in the National Security Council. One section of the cable reads “NSC Top Lines: [People’s Republic of China] Propaganda and Disinformation on the Wuhan Virus Pandemic.”

“Chinese Communist Party officials in Wuhan and Beijing had a special responsibility to inform the Chinese people and the world of the threat, since they were the first to learn of it,” the cable reads. “Instead, the... government hid news of the virus from its own people for weeks, while suppressing information and punishing doctors and journalists who raised the alarm. The Party cared more about its reputation than its own people’s suffering.”

The cable was disseminated to officials at a time when the administration is engrossed in a communications battle around how to disseminate the flow of crucial health information to the American public while at the same time deflecting criticism that the White House was unprepared for the pandemic and that President Trump is at odds with members of his coronavirus task force.

One of the results of those internal deliberations appears to be a renewed focus on underscoring China’s missteps. Two U.S. officials working on the administration’s coronavirus response said the White House is pushing federal agencies to stick closely to the national security council’s talking points, especially when senior officials take to the podium, to ensure continuity with President Trump.

“These talking points are all anyone is really talking about right now,” one official said. “Everything is about China. We’re being told to try and get this messaging out in any way possible, including press conferences and television appearances.”

White House Pushes U.S. Officials to Criticize China For Coronavirus ‘Cover-Up’
https://www.thedailybeast.com/white-house-pushes-us-officials-to-criticize-china-for-coronavirus-cover-up

Like Weapons of Mass Destruction or "Fighting Terrorism," the Coronavirus issue is yet another infowar weapon in America's hybrid wars.

Posted by: ak74 | Apr 1 2020 22:09 utc | 67

Posted by: ancientarcher | Apr 1 2020 22:02 utc | 67

The world underestimated it because China gave low numbers?maybe the chinese thought to be attacked with some kind of bio weapon..so why show outside the real numbers of losses?if it was meant as an act of war that was the right thing to do..because there's a war and you know that is coming much more real soon..About credibility you are right but I don't think it has great weight in this world.

Posted by: LuBa | Apr 1 2020 22:16 utc | 68

The list of those who won’t get a $1,200 stimulus check is growing — and includes some surprising groups Posted by: vk | Apr 1 2020 19:28 utc | 13

Now here is a scam. The Social Security Administration knows exactly how to distribute my Social Security check by direct deposit. I haven't filed a tax return since I don't know when - maybe the 1970's or early '80s. I never made enough money to make it worth my while to get a return. Either I owed them $100 or they owed me $100, so who cares? As an anarchist, I don't pay taxes.

So now to get the $1,200 stimulus check, I as a Social Security recipient have to file a "simple tax return" to get the money. Which now puts me back on the IRS radar as a "non-filer". I object to this blatant attempt to hone in on people to add to the IRS' records which presumably they will use to start harassing people for prior year unpaid bills or other failures to kowtow to them every year.

While it won't mean much for me, since I doubt I owe them much and they've never complained since I'm only one of maybe five million non-filers in this country, it's obviously a surveillance scam.

Frankly, I would and could just ignore this stimulus bribe, but I can use an extra $1,200, so I may go ahead and file their "simple tax return". But this is really a pain in the butt.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 1 2020 22:21 utc | 69

A few quotes That may directly or indirectly apply to the current coronavirus pandemic and the actions of some governments:

"The US health system is a disgrace, delivering the worst life expectancy of any rich country. It is a cancer at the heart of the economy, one that has widely metastasized, bringing down wages, destroying good jobs, and making it harder and harder for states and federal governments to afford what their constituents need.” - Deaths of Despair and the Future of Capitalism

“Two categories of propaganda must be distinguished. The first strives to create a permanent disposition in its objects and constantly needs to be reinforced. Its goal is to make the masses ‘available,’ by working spells upon them and exercising a kind of fascination. The second category involves the creation of a sort of temporary impulsiveness in its objects. It operates by simple pressure and is often contradictory (since contradictory mass movement are sometimes necessary).” – Jacques Ellul

"Almost every national security threat that the government has claimed greater powers in order to fight, all the while undermining the liberties of the American citizenry, has been manufactured in one way or another by the government." - John W. Whitehead

"When you can’t love, you hate. When you can’t build, you destroy. When you’re ignored, you scream. When you can’t tell the truth, you lie. When you can’t reason, you panic. When no one will follow you out of admiration or respect, you compel. When you can’t live, you kill." - Robert Gore, The Last Gasp

"never underestimate the influence of stupidity on history." - Lord Acton, 19th century British political observer

“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” - Mark Twain

“When the institutions of money rule the world, it is perhaps inevitable that the interests of money will take precedence over the interests of people. What we are experiencing might best be described as a case of money colonizing life. To accept this absurd distortion of human institutions and purpose should be considered nothing less than an act of collective, suicidal insanity.” - David Korten

Hope all are well

Posted by: Dick | Apr 1 2020 22:30 utc | 70

joetv | Apr 1 2020 21:51 utc | 58

Family member works in ER of major hospital. She said the ER yesterday and today is mostly empty of patients. The biggest reason is that there is a crowd that comes into to the ER for a headache, gas with pain, rash is moist areas or other ailments which can be easily treated at home. They are more scared than needy at this point. The other reason is that people are staying home and car crashes are few. They are thinking with a chuckle that they look forward to weekend warrior accidents.

One can understand the fear some feel and if they have symptoms they are likely to avoid the ER until the last moment. Denial is strong.

Posted by: stove pipe alley | Apr 1 2020 22:30 utc | 71

@ LuBa | 72

LuBa, one of the many on this site who has been insistently pushing the China is Great message. Enough!

You expect people to believe your allegation of bio war on China, that American soldiers started it. But you still don't want people to know of the several viral research labs within a stone's throw from the epicentre of the epidemic at the Wuhan wet market, nor the only BSL4 lab in the country also a few kilometres away.

You are looking for naive readers. Unfortunately, b is helping you out there.

I expect everyone on this site to make their minds up for themselves!

Posted by: ancientarcher | Apr 1 2020 22:31 utc | 72

More economic data coming out from China:

Caixin PMI turns positive

China goes back to work: Official NBS Manufacturing PMI in China surged to 52.0 in March 2020 from a record low of 35.7

As expected from a socialist economy, China was able to easily and quickly recover from a black swan event. The astonishing was the CCP's capacity of macroeconomic command: it immediately deactivated its own economy to the point its PMI suddenly fell to 35.7, but when it reactivated, it did so with an astounding success: 52.0. Let's see how the capitalist countries will behave after their "lockdowns" (if you want to call those "shelter-in-place" jokes as a true lockdown) are over. My bet is there will be a recovery - but not to the level China has achieved, and definitely not so fast as the commmunists did.

Lockdowns in Europe cause major slump in production as the latest manufacturing indexes confirm

The IHS Markit Italy Manufacturing PM slumped to a record low of 40.3 in March 2020 from 48.7 in February. SEE GRAPH

The IHS Markit Spain Manufacturing PMI fell to 45.7 in March 2020 from 50.4 in February. Output fell to the strongest degree since June 2012, whilst new work declined at the greatest rate for 92 months; and export sales fell sharply and at the greatest rate since April 2009.

As we already knew, Germany is in recession and South Korea is on its knees, on the verge of a financial collapse (although, as small country, it can easily be rescued by the Fed):

Deutsche Bank expects Eurozone GDP to contract 11.4% in the second quarter of 2020 compared to Q1 (which ends today)

Broken down country-by-country (cumulative change in GDP between Q1 and Q2): Spain to contract 20.1%, France 16.3%, Italy 14.8% and Germany 12.2%.

France and Germany's Services' PMI had already come on March 24th. As expected, they showed abject collapse.

One curiosity about Germany is how it didn't hesitate in getting absurdly indebted in containing the COVID-19 (when it realized it was a real threat): it immediately spent almost 5% of its GDP in fiscal policy - almost 50% more than Italy, the second on the list, and almost 100% above Spain, in a distant third place. If all of the Bundestag's promises come true, this amount will grow circa six-fold to almost 30%!

The IMF already is desperate. It is calling all the First World countries to enforce a war economy. But only temporarily: they want communism to the rich, and capitalist to the poor.

Posted by: vk | Apr 1 2020 22:33 utc | 73

Whence all the scepticism about China's success in fighting the epidemic?

It has nothing to do with "autocracy". For South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and Japan can also be cited for efficient handling (and Russia too, of course).

It is really an East vs. West difference. The West has lost its moral values; and it is telling.

Posted by: Jean-Marie L. | Apr 1 2020 22:34 utc | 74

Our Aussie barflies's mate Tony Kevin weighs in from Canberra with a view from down under:

"COVID-19: What the Virus Might Do to the American Empire": "In the new diplomatic landscape, which can as yet only be dimly seen, old verities going back to 1945 will be rediscovered."

A line of thought I've yet to read, although some themes are similar:

"CV19 is a disease with our rich elites’ fingerprints all over it: their privileged globetrotting lifestyle, serviced by armies of Third World serf labor, is in an ugly spotlight now."

Barflies will recall the various articles published about one year ago highlighting the surging effort to "decouple" from China as part of the Outlaw US Empire's strategy. Doesn't the pandemic hasten that ideal?

There's much to highlight from this excellent piece, but I must respectfully disagree with his conclusion. The Current Oligarchy isn't giving in and will doubledown again when this is over unless the financial bubble does finally burst:

"In this model future – I will admit, an optimistic model, but not grossly so– the world will begin to recover its sanity. We will gradually step back from the precipice of nuclear devastation on which we have teetered for at least the past seven years. We will work together to build less environmentally destructive systems of global trade and travel, armed with the new knowledge that having survived CV19 lockdowns will bring. We will concentrate on rethinking societies, and on rebuilding public order and confidence and respect for all classes in Western societies after the terrible wounds CV19 is inflicting on the weak and poor as I write. We will work together to put in place more resilient, less fragile systems of global trade and cooperation."

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 1 2020 22:43 utc | 75

"That does not excuse allowing people out of China to spread the pandemic, an act of wanton international mass slaughter for which the Chinese have to be brought to justice for."

I'm pretty sure I remember stories from the newspapers in which foreign nationals were stuck in China, and their national media begged China to let them go, implying that 'holding them there' was a death sentence and posting updates on their alleged condition. The obvious suggestion was that China was reluctant to let them go, and was putting their health in jeopardy by 'detaining' them. In fact, their own countries were somewhat nervous about accepting them, believing it to be an exclusively Chinese problem which might be contained there.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/28/close-to-1000-americans-stuck-in-chinas-coronavirus-epicenter/

Moreover, mounting evidence from virologists and scientists suggest the virus did not originate in China, and that the first case may have been as early as September 2019. That individual had no connection whatever to the seafood market in Wuhan, and a significant number of subsequent cases also had no such connection.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-further-evidence-virus-originated-us/5706078

It is curious that only the US has all five known strains of the virus, while China has only one or perhaps two. Insisting it came from China is a little like suggesting the tree grew from the branch.

Posted by: Mark | Apr 1 2020 22:46 utc | 76

Posted by: ancientarcher | Apr 1 2020 22:31 utc | 77

No I don't have any expectations about my thoughts..it's not my aim dear one..I really dont' give a fuck about persuading people..I think on my own even if I am quite ignorant..but you forgot to say ho many BSL4 labs the yanks have near Russian border for example..ah no it's for naive readers..sorry I let you go on with the truth.

Posted by: LuBa | Apr 1 2020 22:57 utc | 77

@Mina 35

Did they really need to when, as per BBC, a simple piece of cloth will do.

US 'considers cloth face masks for public'

US health authorities are debating whether to recommend face coverings for everyone when they go out in public.

One internal memo for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that even simple cloth masks could help reduce the risk of virus transmission, the Washington Post reports.

President Donald Trump has suggested that individuals could "use a scarf"[.]

There is currently a shortage of N95 and surgical masks in the US, with healthcare workers saying they have been told to reuse masks several times, or use bandanas when masks are not available. [.]

American leadership: 'We are the best, we are exceptional.'

Yes, the most expensive and the worst healthcare system in the world caught out flat by a virus.

Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 1 2020 22:59 utc | 78

karlof1 #54

"The first influenza pandemic was recorded in 1580, and since then, influenza pandemics occurred every 10 to 30 years."

The average then is one flu pandemic every 20 years, which means I've lived through 3, and if this is classified as flu, then 4, for I intend to not become a statistic yet.

Thank you karlof1. That is my position too, I do not get the flu and I don't intend to. So I wear mask in encounters with others and wash hands regular etc.

On the broader geopolitical side this virus has been fortuitous for those nations on the receiving end of UKUSAI colour revolution games. From now on a virtual embassy will be sufficient to manage discussions and trade. Passports can be managed virtually as well. Trade missions will be able to be conducted with perhaps a minimum of attendees and a quarantine period fore and aft.

No more shenanigans and a perfect rationale to send the embassies and the troops home. Troop rotations in many countries where the aggressive imperial empire has bases are already likely on total hold. Exits likely ok but arrivals banned. Every soldier contained on base and no tours for distro of any virus. No hookers OMG!!!!

So we have oil at its true price not its rigged price, ponzi schemes in USA and Canada collapsing, US bases diminishing and NATO camp dogs in hysterical retreat or diminishing, embassy staff reduced or dying on site, stock market swallowing all those pension funds plus the fraud 'bailout'.

I can't wait till the source of all those Mossad lifted Covid-19 test kits is revealed. US military stock perhaps?

It does not augur well for USA post virus world.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 1 2020 23:03 utc | 79

If we stop arguing about real vs imagined responsibility and put to one side the interpretation of statistics (a fool's errand), then what, in the opinion of barflies, does the borg's Sinophobia and its dissemination herald with respect to the US pivoting toward a war with China, as John Pilger argued some years ago? Is a narrative being prepared that can justify a world war? Given that the Great Depression Mk1 created a liquidity crisis that was only ended by the mass mobilisation of the US after Pearl Harbour (and we need not rehearse the nature of that historical event), is the world being softened for another act of 'creative destruction' in order to start again?

In my view, China will be provoked into pulling a trigger. The US needs to deploy its military advantage while it still has one. It's the short-stack now and it will go all-in. The rest is all narrative filler to bring the cannon-fodder ('coalition of the willing') around. But China will have lots of allies this time around, and some, like Australia, may look the other way because they know who'll be buttering their bread in the slow recovery...

Posted by: Patroklos | Apr 1 2020 23:04 utc | 80

>They are more scared than needy at this point.

Too funny! But how would the medical machine survive without the Worried Well to buy vaccines, cancer screens, statins, and the regular lecture to "Lose Weight! Stop Smoking! Your Ailments Are All In Your Head!"?

I was severely ill for about a decade before I realized that the medical machine is designed around the mostly-healthy.

I know this sounds bizarre, but it's true, I swear. One time I showed up at the clinic and suddenly felt very bad while in the waiting room. I told the nurse I felt really bad, that I needed to lay down. But there is no place in a clinic to lay down! So they wheeled me down the hall to the Emergency Room. Too sick to be seen by my doctor. I never did see him that day, because they immediately gave my appointment to someone else, and my doctor couldn't be bothered to walk down the hall to the ER.

The medical machine is great at patching up trauma. For car crashes and gunshots, they are terrific. Everything else, they pretty much suck, especially at diagnosis and treating chronic illness.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Apr 1 2020 23:04 utc | 81

LuBa | Apr 1 2020 22:57 utc | 83

What do the US biological research facilities in Georgia and other ex-soviet countries have to do with the wuhan coronavirus epidemic? This seems purely a result of Chinese malfeasance or fckup from its labs.

Don't muddy the waters LuBa. Stay home and don't post if you don't want to convince anyone.

Posted by: ancientarcher | Apr 1 2020 23:13 utc | 82

Doesn't it just suck when waters get "muddied" by the truth?

Actually, it is paid narratives that get "muddied" by the truth, but they are just mud to begin with and a shot of truth lets people see through them for a moment.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 1 2020 23:26 utc | 83

A Ventilator Stockpile, With One Hitch: Thousands Do Not Work

This raises another important question I forgot to mention here: it is not enough to have a ventilator, you need the qualified medical staff to monitor and manage it.

I watched CGTN yesterday and a Chinese doctor mentioned that, in order to put one ventilator to work, you have to have a team of at least three doctors. It's not enough to simply turn it on like a microwave: constant monitoring and adjustments are still necessary.

Another thing that is hampering America's capacity to cope with the pandemic lies in the fact that medical licenses are State-wide, not federal: if you have a medical license from the State of Louisiana, you can't be a doctor in the State of New York, and so on. It seems the Congress has already lifted this restriction temporarily, but the fragmentary structure is still in place - doctors from one State still are not communicating with doctors from another State optimally.

Posted by: vk | Apr 1 2020 23:26 utc | 84

ancientarcher #67

In Alice in Wonderland, the red queen said she could believe six impossible things before breakfast. b is exceeding her. bravo!

Pause for a minute before you release another arrow ancientarcher.

The red queen also believed many actual FACTS before breakfast too. She was unusually versatile for a Queen.

Recall that there has been an international science/military collaboration over many years to investigate these virus. Early virus including SARS especially triggered the collaboration.

The countries represented included USA, China, Canada, UK and probably more. Those research projects included gathering together at military laboratories thinking and experimenting together. Its what scientists do and in this case the scientists are exceptional people in the field of virology and whatever the word is for 'cut and paste' is.

Many mammals also participated in these experiments in many if not all bases.

The USA has a world network of Class 4 containment labs and has assisted other countries to establish such high level facilities.

The USA collaborates and exchanges science with states such as Georgia on the border of Russia Federation, Kazakhstan, on the border of Russian Federation and Mongolia. Odd that eh?

China, like all modern nations, debriefs scientists on their return home to ensure their research is fully shared and to get an understanding of what directions research is trending. All states do this to ensure they can take economic advantage of the immense expense of training scientists. There is no free lunch in science either.

China, like any nation would be well aware of the risk elements of their scientist research and the potential threat to their country in both as direct or accidental sense. They experienced the outbreak of African swine flu and a chicken flue and Fall Army worm in their crops. etc etc. They know a threat when they see one.

Knowing all that China likely saw the Covid-19 outbreak as potentially another invasive threat. It is also likely that is why they shut down their country. The previous laissez faire response to those plagues I mentioned above cost them extreme $$$.

There was a delay because the Wuhan province governor failed to inform the head of China infectious disease in defiance or negligence of the national directive. That was a ten day delay and much was lost due to that.

I surmise that China saw this coming from the debriefings and the continuing work of the chief scientist at Wuhan's laboratory who's research would have been closely monitored, perhaps every week at the most. That scientist was a major team member of the global collaboration and included her staying at USA military Class 4 containment laboratories.

Soe the red queen blieves many facts and has asked the USA repeatedly to feed her more facts but the USA would like to starve the red queen. Would you believe that?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 1 2020 23:33 utc | 85

Patroklos @87--

And why would China "pull the trigger"? The Outlaw US Empire's clearly in decline and bordering on an extremely serious crisis brought about by its own hand. All China and its Russian partner need do is watch the parasite consume its host then ransack the corpse if they desire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 1 2020 23:34 utc | 86

karlof1 #93

All China and its Russian partner need do is watch the parasite consume its host then ransack the corpse if they desire.


Great line brother karlof1. There wont be much left of the corpse after all those gun toting US militia parasites are finished with it. The minute I read your post I recalled 'the road' - a horrible tale but brilliantly told.

I trust it won't come to that but carnage is not far beyond the veil.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 1 2020 23:42 utc | 87

@ karlof 1 #93

Agreed, but the USA's domestic politics needs a 'just war' narrative to bring its population along, even if it's imaginary or concocted, such as Pearl Harbour, Gulf of Tonkin, etc. I did not for a second suggest that China would want to pull the trigger, only that internal mobilisation of the population in the US would require a narrative in which China could be represented as having already pulled the trigger (e.g. by infecting the world, or some other fantasy). It goes without saying that BRICs nations would resist that narrative as much as possible. In other words, America needs a war, but it needs one that it can plausibly sell to its dumbass population. 80% of that population wouldn't be able locate China on a map, much less understand why war was necessary with them—just as all those Iowa farmboys in '41 would not have even heard of Japan. That too was the tragedy of Gallipoli for Australia.

Posted by: Patroklos | Apr 1 2020 23:53 utc | 88

Trailer Trash | Apr 1 2020 23:04 utc | 88

Sadly many ER patients these days are poor from countries where they were used to running into the village shaman or healing mother. As they went about their day they would run into the shaman or healer who would ask them how they feel. They would tell them whatever and the response was put three of these leaves under your tongue before you go to sleep. Wash mouth out in the morning. Or perhaps some nutrient they were lacking by looks.

Now that they are in the land of shining cities they are looking for the healers. They are not finding what they are looking for (good health through nutritious [mid 17th century: from Latin nutritius ‘that nourishes’ (from nutrex ‘a nurse’) + -ous.]diet and exercise). Its radical the loss of roots.

Posted by: stove pipe alley | Apr 1 2020 23:58 utc | 89

Great stuff b again.
Of course China has mislead the world only in the same way that every subsequent country has mislead, with the disadvantage that it was first.

The interesting question is why the sudden surge of blatant anti-China propaganda. And of course it is the end of American leadership and total failure of any western country to help anyone else. Suddenly it is Russia China and Cuba getting the thanks from Italy, Africa and even !!! from USA.

BTW Sky news the UK TV vehicle owned by Murdoch had exactly the same "UK ministers have been told by intelligence services that China lied........." story today. Such an artificial way of making "an official leak".

Posted by: Michael Droy | Apr 2 2020 0:03 utc | 90

Stand by for another attack on China's undercaptialised banks and dependence on debt - that is always good for a laugh.
The make it 2 million Ujghurs in prison. Brutal policing in HK again.
And the China's growth figures have been faked every year for the past 25 years story (making "true" china about one tenth the size of reported China!). That one never fails.

Posted by: Michael Droy | Apr 2 2020 0:06 utc | 91

special for thr dingbat so many are eager to feed.
Back in early February Aotearoa & Australia blocked entry to arrivals from China. That caused a major shitstorm because neoliberalist policies had been applied to tertiary education structures so that rather than fulfilling their traditional roles of educating citizens, dodgy diploma mills for foerign students became their main aim.
It quickly affected all courses & my youngest daughter who is completing her Masters in urban planning was getting pissed even last year at 1/ always being appointed 'group scribe' & 2/ as a result being caught in internecine conflicts .
This year (academic year in south usually begins in february) the Uni decided that without the Chinese cash input they could only offer online lectures & tutorials for smaller classes eg Masters in Urban design.
Then some brit administrator at the Uni (englanders have been at the forefront of wrecking Australasia's tertiary education) decided it would be a smart ruse to offer all foreign students an $8000 one off grant to arrive in Australia via a 3rd 'more acceptable nation one largely free of the coronavirus.
Next thing my daughter is going really ape cos although in person lectures are back, 2 of the foreign students arrived sick and had to be hospitalised for covid.
It wasn't chinamen who spread this lergy, it was greedy whitefellas, the same arseholes who lie at the root cause of 99% of this planet's problems. And for the same old reason - greed.
Gotta Go

Posted by: A User | Apr 2 2020 0:09 utc | 92

"ak47@ 71 said;"Like Weapons of Mass Destruction or "Fighting Terrorism," the Coronavirus issue is yet another infowar weapon in America's hybrid wars."

A quick look at the historical record of our latest empire, would make the above statement very credible.

With over 900 overseas bases, who is the country that seems to threaten all others with global hegemony? The answer should be
obvious..

Posted by: ben | Apr 2 2020 0:09 utc | 93

Im curious if people remember all the flu deaths the US media was in a panic about all last summer / fall and blaming on vaping. It always seemed strange to me that the media made a big fuss about vaping causing lung damage when was the last time they made a full court press about reguar smoking which causes far more deaths than vaping. I always wondered if there was more to the story that wasnt being told

Posted by: Kadath | Apr 2 2020 0:18 utc | 94

ut @ 92; Excellent post ut, and factual, AFAIK...( as far as I know)...

Posted by: ben | Apr 2 2020 0:19 utc | 95

NemesisCalling just sticking w/Russia, Japan, and S. Korea, each have less than 200 deaths and China is their biggest trading partner, so let's take Laos, Vietnam, and Nepal off the table.

1. No govt official, Think Tank creature, or NR pundit will acknowledge this as evidence that our response was lacking, we were victims of China's criminal negligence.

2. What did Skrapan (S.Korea, Russia and Japan) do? I have some idea but no one in high office in the U.S. has mentioned that Skrapan did anything that we should emulate, no, it's time to burn down China. Our CDC mansplained to us that we would be irresponsible to wear masks ignoring that this is a common practice in East Asia. We tell, we don't listen.

For some reason, the MSM has been directed to pound the drum that China is still lying about their numbers but would this matter? What if the numbers are 10 times higher than what they say, will we in the U.S. suddenly eat our spinach and get serious, we know this is a highly infectious disease because over 4,000 of us are dead with more dropping everyday. This is the only number we should care about. If the 'correct' number is higher or lower, it's not like we are suddenly going to say, 'yay, we have nothing to worry about'. These people in our MSM are fools. They will bleat anything they are told to bleat by their deep state handlers.

Yes. The Empire, my empire, is collapsing and nothing will save us from our own stupidity. I love the new drug interdiction effort, or should I say covert blockade of Venezuela, the dull witted MSM didn't even think to ask if that was part of the plan. A blockade is a wonderful use of our dwindling resources.

Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Apr 2 2020 0:21 utc | 96

Patroklos @95 & uncle tungsten @94--

With this and other revelations, some already made with more to come, I very much doubt TrumpCo will be able to get the populous riled up against China since there's already a growing movement pushing back against TrumpCo rhetoric. The daily number of similar articles at the CD website are not the daily total as many more are being published, and more people now have the time to read them. The strikes by nurses and other workers will reach the point where they become a pandemic of their own sort, the Establishment Narrative unable to squelch the reality. Just look at the new effort to mute the MoA narrative, and we aren't even focusing on the building tsunami wave of the financial crisis yet. The refusal of the national government to support its citizens is clear to most US-based barflies and is now dawning on a whole bunch of previously naïve people. They won't know the whys or the history or the intent behind what they see and experience, but they'll know its Anti-American and morally wrong. Remember, the Enemy resides within. And all it's going to take is a few more gaffs by the greedy and their stooges to turn the greater majority of the Outlaw US Empire's citizenry against them. And as with France, we'll likely see the Firemen side with the People while the police splinter.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 2 2020 0:42 utc | 97

Thanks ben, the muse is with me today and I have a quiver full of fresh arrows from my bamboo patch.

I figure it is important to keep the story straight and frequent as there are dopes masquerading as trolls that try to undermine the barstools here. If I detect a gap in their armour I will spear them.

The repeated assaults on Chinese agriculture have hurt that country immensely. There is even mystery and allegation surrounding SARS but I don't know the detail of all that.

The fall army worm crop plague was a very suspicious event.

In my land a complete f'ing moron smuggled citrus stock in to grow a better strain in 1990's and the State director of agriculture totally ignored the instructions from the national director of quarantine and refused to eradicate the crop and issue quarantine orders. The entire region ended up bulldozing their orchards and starting again. Millions $ lost, vast swathes of productive hectares and years wasted. Director of agriculture was promoted and so on.

Next season there were Oranges from USA everywhere in the fruit stores. Strange that. Not saying the director was a treacherous dog but he sure was a world class ignorant lazy fool.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 2 2020 0:54 utc | 98

Reporting numbers is not difficult.
Collecting useful data takes some trial and error.
China is always being accused of rigging it numbers.
As is the US. They tell truth when it serves thier interests and lie similarly. Its too easy.
Leaving aside that there are those who feel it serves them to portray China in a negative light, how would it benefit China to supress the numbers. Then I believe it is known that 1 there were no test protocols and 2 the testing wast slow to receive results and 3 the tests did not neccesary work.
Some playing are simply benefitting by seeding conflict - they are a human virus. MSM being what it is we can only be assured that we know nothing of the truth.

Posted by: jared | Apr 2 2020 0:54 utc | 99

Interesting article:

All Roads Lead to Dark Winter

This gives some fuel to the Chinese diplomat (who's now some kind of rising star there in China) who claimed American soldiers bring the SARS CoV-2 to Wuhan.

Posted by: vk | Apr 2 2020 1:00 utc | 100

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