Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 13, 2020

2020 Presidential Election Thread 08

Sanders endorses Biden
Bernie Sanders endorsed Joe Biden on Monday during a surprise appearance on the former vice president’s livecast.
...

Posted by b on April 13, 2020 at 18:25 UTC | Permalink

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Thank you, Deskscape @92, and welcome. Yours is a promising post, particularly as it would seem there will be an effort to derail the convention because of virus scare, if that can be prolonged. I did investigate the Green Party's online information, and perhaps it has, like Occupy, seen its day. To still try to be part of any general election seems difficult to imagine. I would like to see those worthy persons join with the Brigade in becoming the Movement we so badly need. Perhaps even non-Party but just, like the UN, a moral force. That I would support. Something like the League of Women Voters, but simply a league of the ninety-nine, or whatever. An ombudsman group, the conscience of the country. Our youth going forward, mentored by but not lead by, our elders.

The start of something big.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 14 2020 14:46 utc | 101

So it says Obama is going to endorse Biden now, like they are pulling out all the stops to shore up Biden, circling the wagons, which raises the question: Why? What are they trying to prevent, avoid, or stop? And why would they think getting all his "opponents" to one by one back Biden would work? It is so obviously choreographed. They are heading for some dramatic climax, perhaps a sort of replacement for the coronation that would normally occur at a convention that will not occur now. Perhaps an acceleration of what was already supposed to occur. Maybe because of the progress of his "mental" issues? I dunno. Bears watching. Hmmm.

Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 14 2020 14:47 utc | 102

William Gruff @87:

... Sanders' campaign was a movement.

LOL. "was"

Movements don't fade away like that.

=
The problem people are having with Sanders is that they are mistaking a social democrat for a socialist.

No. The problem is that Sander's was never a real candidate. A real candidate wouldn't be so deferential to Hillary and the Democratic Party.

He misled us. His quixotic goal was to take over the Democratic Party. Independent progressives warned that this was doomed to fail and pointed out his sheepdogging every step of the way.

In response, the Democratic Party sent out dembot trolls to urge young people to trust in Sanders.

=
Sanders' campaign in the US has changed the game.

No. It has better revealed the game.

=
Now is the time to make the distinction that socialism is a replacement for capitalism ...

Gruff points us to the next brick wall as he deflects blame from the Deep State-controlled duopoly.

The first step is secure a real democracy.

=
Socialized medicine was verboten, or worse, evil.

No. Obama promised to include a 'public option' in his healthcare reform. This was one of the many promises that Obama broke as he betrayed his base. For this, he was practically sainted by the Democratic Party. What a guy.

Obama Repeatedly Touted Public Option Before Refusing To Push For It In The Final Hours

NY Times Reporter Confirms Obama Made Deal to Kill Public Option

Even while President Obama was saying that he thought a public option was a good idea and encouraging supporters to believe his healthcare plan would include one, he had promised for-profit hospital lobbyists that there would be no public option in the final bill.

The Real Obama Betrayal

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 14 2020 14:50 utc | 103

Whatever steps Bernie may have made towards "revolution", he wiped them out with his normalizing of Democratic party election theft, by twice leading his followers into a political death trap, and worst of all, by endorsing and campaigning for pathological warmongers like Hillary Clinton and now the dementia-addled corporate tool Joe Biden.

If you take his statement in 1989 about the need for an alternative third party to heart, then he's been misleading progressives for 31 years into the Democratic party swamp.

Posted by: Trisha | Apr 14 2020 14:54 utc | 104

Everyone reading this thread should take note of the pro-Sanders, pro-Democratic party comments.

Smoothing over the disappointment: look to other Democratic candidates! Sanders wasn't so bad!

If you drink the Kool-Aid (or are paid to spew Kool-Aid) there's NEVER a reason to doubt the system enough to form or join reform Movements. Even when the corruption of the "democratic" political system is clear as a bell.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 14 2020 14:58 utc | 105

The genuine Movements that we have today are Wikileaks/Assange and Gillets Jaunes.

Their steadfast determination for real change shows how much Sanders' falls short. And reveals where Sanders' loyalty lies - with the pro-Empire, Zionist establishment.

Welcome to the rabbit hole.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 14 2020 15:11 utc | 106

to A User - dude - I bow to you. Well said. Thank you. Regarding the bet with Pierro, I don't exactly understand the terms, but it seems like b is the winner no matter what... rigged bet?! hahahahahah. I'm down with that.

As for the Killderbeast - she may get on the ticket through some nasty subterfuge or another, but no way she'll win. Even the most loyal "feminist" Dims won't vote for her. Looks like the other one - Princess Kamala of PrisonWorld, may get the nod.

Blech. I'm going for a walk. Cheers

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Apr 14 2020 15:19 utc | 107

Look, everyone can now see that Bernie, whatever his inner soul is like, was chained by the corrupt system from the getgo. Whatever his faults, and they are many, Trump ran as an outsider, and had success because a movement that was not of his making gathered around him. That's where the power, the true power of this country resides. It can't happen that way again. The powers that be saw and were frightened by the power of that movement. They channeled it for a while with Bernie, and he consolidated it, in the chained manner in which he was able to do so. But it was getting too big; they had to rein him in, and they could - but that's all the power they had, over that one piece of the puzzle. They can't control the 99. They can't! They will do their best to fragment it now, and righteous indignation against Bernie is one tool. Don't let them!

Build on that non-party movement, that cross-over movement, that got Trump elected. That was true electoral power. That stymied the political hegemon for a while. That made them re-group. That bought time! This time they are sewing up presidential possibilities; they are scheming to do that as we supposedly flounder. But now, all the elements are there. And with this virus and all its nastiness and suffering, the states are coming back into their own. People know their state governments and representatives more intimately because they are closer. They know the heroes and the cads, oh yes. People knew and warned us about slick Willie long before he went national! People know.

So, never mind party - that's old school! Go with quality, go with local assessment.

And go big.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 14 2020 15:24 utc | 108

PS to old hippie. Re Sonny and Cher - well you may recall that some 40 years ago - or was it 50? Pat Paulson was a candidate. Of course I voted for him. Twice, I think. Best politician since the late lamented Kennedys. Sigh.

I was 12 at the time... no wait...

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Apr 14 2020 15:26 utc | 109

@ 87 william gruff... nice post.. i like the optimism and the thought that sanders served a useful purpose to bring a chunk of the usa to the place it finds itself today.. but while he has done some good the other forces have been working overtime to completely destroy the democrat party - the democrat party itself and the other forces that continue to roll on here - wall st and etc. etc. where little people have there dreams squashed out regularly... it is going to take more then a bernie sanders to change what is going on in the usa today, and the movement he apparently started looks more like a premature baby, dying a premature death at this point.. how is this movement going to get any momentum when the guy who apparently led it is giving his blessings to biden?? or is that because the dem party demands such conformity that there really is no hope of any change within the dem party?? it looks like that to me... better look for another party as the dems are 2 for 2 at this point... bernie for all the good he has done, just rubber stamped all that too...

Posted by: james | Apr 14 2020 15:32 utc | 110

Jackrabbit #103

I like the way you think!

Posted by: krypton | Apr 14 2020 15:34 utc | 111

A sad and lame ending, just as with the Clinton endorsement in 2016. Sadly, it became a hopeless cause as the 'rona virus has killed any normal discussion of policy.

While in reality the situation revealed the pitiful per capita level of medical services available in the very center of world capitalism, they're probably going to celebrate the inadequacies as heroic. Try to recreate that flag waving moment of national self love, that transformed 9/11 into the Iraq war with hardly a protest.

Biden is just the man for the job too. We'll have to pull together as a nation, cut medical services etc, share the sacrifice, blah blah blah.

Posted by: ptb | Apr 14 2020 15:37 utc | 112

You know, China surprised the US, I read in one comment, by being so prepared against this virus that they flung themselves into action once it had been verified as dangerous, put on a full court press as they say. Now, consider this: Bernie Sanders could have led his followers with vague promises right up to convention time and then switched.

Didn't he do the same thing as China did?

Just maybe the 'establishment' didn't expect him to leave the stage prematurely. Maybe they are affected by this more than we know. Maybe they are the ones left holding the bag - and what a bag it is!

Maybe he did us all a favor.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 14 2020 15:38 utc | 113

The Washington Post reported today at morning that Barack Obama officially declared his support for Joe Biden. The infamous American newspaper claimed it was "a step closer to unity (of the Democratic Party)".

I'm really curious about what kind of unity they're talking about, because, as I've commented here earlier, the Bernie supporters won't go anywhere.

The true question is: is WaPo's editorial board on drugs or simply in denial?

Posted by: vk | Apr 14 2020 15:51 utc | 114

I hope Creppy Joe will step down in last minute, with ecstatic Killary Clinton taking his place, only to be destroyed again by Trump, then dragged to insane asylum never to be heard or seen again. That would be Greek epic of story.

Posted by: Abe | Apr 14 2020 16:02 utc | 115

james @ 110, and William Gruff, I'll go along with your optimism but I'll take it one step further. Bernie's been a politician way way longer than I have been watching politics, mostly from the sideline as I was not a citizen until just before the century turned. And fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice... as an infamous president gave us. And I saw Obama sweet talk young people all through the election season, creating a huge movement, then turn his back on them after he was installed.

This is Bernie's life; he knows with whom he has had to dance, especially after doing it once already. Was it a disaster that first time? No! He'd mad a movement then, and he did again. He knew just how far his speeches would take him, and what he could or could not say, and that they would let him do only so much. I'm guessing he took it as far as he honorably could, and that he knew what they, his 'friends' wanted was for that to be a failure for the ongoing movement looking for leadership, but not now - later. And this time, they thought, that pesky movement they haven't yyet crushed (that had gone on last time to elect Trump, remember? by crossing over!) would have no easy candidate to switch to at the last moment - they had seen to that.

I think it is very likely Bernie, like China, surprised them and jumped the gun - gave this ongoing movement time to lick its wounds and heal.

It's up to the movement now. And they probably know it. This is going to get interesting!

Posted by: juliania | Apr 14 2020 16:04 utc | 116

@ Posted by: vk | Apr 14 2020 15:51 utc | 114

For Wapo and the corporate Dems, it's just fine for Trump to be reelected rather than someone who offers a true alternative.

Sanders is/was a ship dog like many other previous ones throughout Dem's history.

Posted by: nathan Mulcahy | Apr 14 2020 16:05 utc | 117

james @110

Sanders' inevitable collapse led to the collapse of a national movement, but of course the people in that movement are not going to just crawl under rocks and die. Take a look at our local hothead Circe. Do you think she will be calling it quits?

People are disappointed by Sanders, and there is currently nothing to form a nucleus for a national movement around now that Sanders is out of the picture, but that doesn't mean it's all over. As Deskscape and juliania pointed out above, all of those Bernie Brothers and Sisters will start to act locally, and that's where change starts getting real.

I never believed Sanders could win in a straight fight, and I doubt you did either. There is just too much corruption. But shit has been stirred, and it will not un-stir very quickly.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 14 2020 16:09 utc | 118

I see Bernie just like the Pied Piper, doing the job he was paid to do , leading his followers right to the river. After the first time of getting duped you think people would learn but believers got to believe. I wonder if he changed his name to Lucy people might catch on "Hey Charlie Brown, come kick the football!".

Posted by: Tobi | Apr 14 2020 16:17 utc | 119

Correction to 118 above: "I never believed Sanders would be allowed a straight fight that he could win".

Sanders could easily have won a straight fight against all of the contenders this time around.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 14 2020 16:17 utc | 120

@ Julianna #108

They can't control the 99. They can't!

Yet they do, very effectively. In more ways thanks you can count: corrupt elections, controlled media, fear, divide and conquer, etc. They have us fighting against each other, egged on by the media, while they loot the treasury.

Every crisis is an opportunity for them to extend their power and wealth. Their blatant mistreatment and neglect of the vast majority will one day lead to the end of this nonsense (at least temporarily). The longer it goes on the more of a bloodbath it will be when it comes. The empire is on suicide watch.

Posted by: Noah Way | Apr 14 2020 16:21 utc | 121

@ 116 juliania / @ 118 william gruff.. i like where you are both going with this.. i don't believe anything is all black or all white in politics.. as i said previously i like bernie and what he represented.. being a canuck, i have to look at this as an outsider! i hope that something can come out of this in a positive sense.. i know many people in the usa seek change and are very unhappy with the status quo.. maybe it will happen locally and it can build into something national... maybe it's time for a 3rd party in the usa.. the dem party is essentially toast as i see it.. they are going to limp forward at this point... in fact the repugs were very averse to trump and they aren't that fair removed for a similar fate once trump is off the stage.. my own 2c's on this is americans need to get beyond this bipolar duopoly they have invested heavily in..it really has been 1 party for a very long time.. sanders wanted to change that, but the dem machine was not okay with that.. the dem and repug machine are the same machine.. call it wall st, military industrial complex and a host of other hangers on, but neither party serves the peoples interest at this point.. the media functions in much the same way! thanks for your comments..

Posted by: james | Apr 14 2020 16:35 utc | 122

I had thought that I would not comment more on murkan politics - and with respect to those of you who are trying to see silver linings in the capitulations of Sanders and Gabbard - but, now I read that O'bomber has just endorsed the crook, aka Biden, to "restore the soul of the nation." Wow. So I guess that means that the soul of the Dimmocrat Nation is bombing burning looting... Syria Yemen Venezuela Nicaragua Ecuador North Korea Iran Iraq Afghanistan..
O'Bomber had his bloody hands in those places - Ukrainia - Democrat Country, right Yaz..?

Yes Noah Way - the empire in on suicide watch but the peeps seem to be too fat and too delusional to do much. Me thinks the end will come not from any "popular uprising" but rather from the eventual crash of the almightydollar.

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Apr 14 2020 16:35 utc | 123

@ miss lacy... check out the article that @6 karlof1 posted if you missed it..here.. it kind of conforms with your conclusion which is much the same as mine..

Posted by: james | Apr 14 2020 16:53 utc | 124

>The useless Hopium-addicted gulls already did the wrecking job,
>even though they had been warned. Both times. Good job... liberals.
>Posted by: Piero Colombo | Apr 13 2020 22:59 utc | 47

Yes, plenty of people predicted exactly what happened, while suffering the slings and arrows of the Bernie Bots who called us bad names. Will they eat crow, will they apologize, or at least learn that the system can not be changed from the inside?

Na, never happen. They will slink off to the corner and pout.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Apr 14 2020 17:04 utc | 125

james @ 122, I am somewhat of an outsider too, as you know, and perhaps that helps me be a tad objective. I don't know that it is all as I say, am only guessing. But it does seem likely. I posit that a movement has been growing ever since the betrayal of both major parties, and they have sought to divide and conquer. That's why I said it really began with Obama - that tide of young people he gathered around him, and the success we all thought we had then. Well, they had to convince us that it wasn't a success, that we weren't so powerful, so Occupy got smashed, and Bernie's followers got publicly humiliated. So people crossed over to Trump! That was huge, it was the beginning of party disassemblings, of new strategies. All these things, including Bernie's two candidacies, have been signs of a growing movement, which the powers that be have attacked from the getgo, as they did way back in 1968, on national television -- and sent as many of the movement as they could off to war -- but it keeps on coming!!

Maybe that movement will succeed this time; maybe it won't. But it is not going to die; it is too big now. And they are the ones fragmenting. They are the ones running out of options.

I love this country, I have to say, adopted though I be.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 14 2020 17:21 utc | 126

Gruff @118 and @120:

I never believed Sanders would be allowed a straight fight that he could win.

Sanders knew what he was doing. He could've joined the Greens or started an independent Movement - especially after gaining a following after 2016.

"Outsider" Trump criticized his political opponents during the 2016 Republican Primary and even mocked them.

In 2016 Sanders famously let Hillary off the hook about emails, saying: Enough with your damn emails! But he also pulled many other punches during that race.

In 2020, when Hillary attacked Sanders, saying "no one lies him", Bernie meekly replied:

On a good day, my wife likes me

Contrast with Tulsi's response when Hillary attacked her:

You, the queen of warmongers, embodiment of corruption, and personification of the rot that has sickened the Democratic Party for so long, have finally come out from behind the curtain ...

<> <> <> <> <> <>

Obama promised "Change You Can Believe In".

Bernie promised "Revolution". Twice.

It's clear that neither of these establishment stooges had any real intention of delivering any sort of change.

And anyone that doesn't immediately throw up at that sight is stoopid, deluded, or trolling.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 14 2020 17:21 utc | 127

So many purists, so little common sense. Sanders could only be a candidate in the existing system, not an ideal system that does not exist. Given that the existing system has only two parties, he had to choose one or the other. A third party run may sound brave, but it would be totally quixotic (and totally ignored). Running in the Democratic Party primaries, he was essentially blocked from any chance of winning, but he did rack up some significant achievements in bringing important policy prescriptions into mainstream consideration. No doubt, Bernie moved the party to the left, even at the highest levels. Do I trust the party's elite to follow through on their progressive promises? Time will tell, but I think that the party's base now have higher expectations that will be harder to deny. And as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic, universal health care insurance may become a reality sooner than most of us expected, though resistance to it will be fierce. If and when it happens, Sanders will deserve a good part of the credit.

Posted by: Rob | Apr 14 2020 17:22 utc | 128

Correction: Hillary said "No one likes him".

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 14 2020 17:23 utc | 129

@ juliania... i like where you are coming from in all you say.. would be good to see a glimmer of light in all this..

@ jackrabbit.. trump and sanders are very different personality types... it is unrealistic to compare them on some basic level.. sanders revolution might still come, but it is going to come at a cost - covid 19 being a part of it.. the usa is going to look very different when this is all over and as some others have said sanders might indeed get credit for raising the issue of public health as opposed to what the usa has now... don't be so cynical, lol!

Posted by: james | Apr 14 2020 17:33 utc | 130

In fact, your healthcare system is so far outside my experience that it's really hard for me to understand why Americans go on about M4All but I make the effort anyhow because America is an obviously unhappy country that demands attention and seems to want to destroy the world every other day.

Posted by: ADKC | Apr 14 2020 6:11 utc | 80
++++++++++

What country is your home?
And what are some of the relevant blogs in that country, so that we can spend as much time commenting on your country of origin as you spend "commenting" on the USA?
Thanks in advance!

Posted by: Really?? | Apr 14 2020 17:34 utc | 131

@ really?? i think adkc is in canada like me...

Posted by: james | Apr 14 2020 17:37 utc | 132

feel free to comment on canada... canada has a lot of problems too! they are just different..

Posted by: james | Apr 14 2020 17:39 utc | 133

IMO Wm Gruff is now wrong on TWO counts.

He has previously pointed to the election of "outsider" Trump as proof that the US political system is working (despite circumstantial evidence of a setup) and now points to Sanders "influence" as proof that the US political system works on the Democratic Party side as well (despite circumstantial evidence of a setup).

Yeah, it's working alright - but for whom?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 14 2020 17:42 utc | 134

The political leadership in Canada is if anything, worse than in the US. Justin Trudeau (the P.M.) is weak, unpopular, incompetent and worst of all has no vision or plan for the country. So the country is just kind of drifting through the crisis in a very British way. the Provincial Premiers, like Doug Ford (yes the brother of "that" Rob Ford) are leading the response to the virus situation and the Federal government is just in hiding while it writes checks. I imagine this will go on till Mid May or June then the Federal government will be forced to deal with far larger threat of the Economic crisis the virus unleashed

Posted by: Kadath | Apr 14 2020 17:57 utc | 135

The jackass empire-worshiping troll bunny completely misrepresents my words and points. I normally ignore the obvious troll but its making false claims about what I post must be noted. My point has consistently been that the efforts by the global elites to control outcomes, whether in the political made-for-TV drama in America, on the battlefield in Syria, in the petroleum markets, or with their covert and overt attacks on China, have been failing. This offends the jackass troll bunny because it worships those elites and cannot accept that they are not omnipotent and infallible.

Note that the regular failure of the plans of the jackass troll bunny's heroes is not the same thing as the institutions those elites operate "working". While the jackass troll bunny may not be very bright, it is not so stupid that it cannot see the distinction. Its posts above are thus obvious trolling, so with this point raised I will return to not feeding the troll.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 14 2020 18:07 utc | 136

Alistair's (c/o Karlof1) term "mumbleswerve" fits Bernie well.

The type of ‘crypto’ the Central Bankers have in mind is one giving the authorities complete control: no real money, just a credit at the central bank with ATMs spitting out only what the central banks determine. And no, there will be no real reform – only ‘mumbleswerve’. But that – dirty money, lots and lots of it – is another story. Transparency is not an option.

Miss Lacy, Antoinette III, et al. are seeing clearest through the fog (smoke of burning bodies may be more apt).

Pam Ho of "Revolution Will Not Be Televised" is exemplary of where orphaned but intuitively astute Berners are 20 yrs behind (clearly not MoA readers): The Man:Kamala::Bilderberger:Barack, and similarly Bill:Hil::BO:Michelle, while creaked necks and all eyes are off of Butti, Pelosi Jr, Biden Institute, etc. That lot of kitchen slaves like DJT's dogs of Hades knows Americans are all working for Blackrock now.

Berners appear clueless, and while Tulsi went further while Bernie traded silent consent for staying in the kitchen, neither have dared speak of the Wizard of Oz!

Will Greens wake up in time to coalition w Libertarians and vice versa?
If they did so offline locally then uniparty msm would have to scramble to keep up!

Posted by: Екатери́на | Apr 14 2020 18:15 utc | 137

Bernie can go to Hell right now!

Taide è, la puttana che rispuose
al drudo suo quando disse “Ho io grazie
grandi apo te?”: “Anzi maravigliose!”.

(Inferno 18.133-35)

Posted by: shad roe | Apr 14 2020 18:17 utc | 138

As I opined earlier, Bernie doesn't matter anymore, because hopefully, the ideas he brought forward will resonate with the public, and be discussed further.

I wish him well moving along, and now, it's up to someone else to carry the ball for the working classes.

Who will that be? I doubt it will be Biden. Him, and most of the Dems, are already bought and paid for.

Posted by: ben | Apr 14 2020 18:23 utc | 139

@Virgile #25
Can you present some evidence for your assertion? That Cuomo is more popular with Republicans to the point where they'd vote against the Republican incumbent president?

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 14 2020 18:25 utc | 140

Plenty of people BELIEVE that Trump was elected fairly and Bernie fought the good fight.

But close observers KNOW that the US political system is rigged via money-in-politics, in-the-tank media, and the duopoly's tight grip.

Those who pretend that US/Western democracy works as it should and produces good outcomes as a result are not to be trusted (IMO). The Iraq War; Cold War II; the 2008 financial crisis (the crash that could've been avoided as well as the crony bailouts after); the poor response to coronavirus; numerous tax cuts for the wealthy and many other failures point are to be expected in a system that is designed to enrich and insulate TPTB.

Our political and business elites largely agree an ideological framework that promotes Empire and neofeudalism: zionism, neoconservatism, and neoliberalism. Together, these lines of thought justify power for sake of power and lying to the people (as our "populist outsider" politicians do) to ensure that the ruled don't cause much of a fuss about it.

EMPIRE imperatives are not open to question or democratic choice.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 14 2020 18:27 utc | 141

Banish all thoughts about a Third Party -- splitting the anti-Trump votes would guarantee the f**kwad a win.

Posted by: chet380 | Apr 14 2020 18:45 utc | 142

@ Miss Lacy # 123

Fat delusional and insatiably greedy. Too much is not enough. Any time not spent bilking, extorting, and suppressing the general population is spent fighting among themselves for the largest piece of cake.

A general strike where the country walks out en masse would do the trick but they have us all so divided against each other (by race/party/job/economics) that it will never happen as long as a few scraps of food are on the table. They will maintain this as the thing they fear most of all is us. Which is why the police have been militarized and plans are under way to declare martial law and suspend habeas corpus. As if constitutional protections were actually in place ... but hey, you have to do the paperwork to make it 'legal'.

Posted by: Noah Way | Apr 14 2020 18:46 utc | 143

@ 103 said; "Movements don't fade away like that."

We had a strong ant-war movement in the late 60's and early 70's, vets helped end the Viet Nam war. So, in a time end-less war, where is the movement now?

Just faded away..

James @ 122 said;"the dem and repug machine are the same machine.. call it wall st, military industrial complex and a host of other hangers on, but neither party serves the peoples interest at this point.. the media functions in much the same way!

That's the bottom line truth james. Wish more of the American public understood it..

WG @ 136 said;"My point has consistently been that the efforts by the global elites to control outcomes, whether in the political made-for-TV drama in America, on the battlefield in Syria, in the petroleum markets, or with their covert and overt attacks on China, have been failing."

True that WG!!

Posted by: ben | Apr 14 2020 18:55 utc | 144

I don't understand how anyone could see the Dems as anything other than a tool of the 0.1%.
The Clinton Admin deregulated the US banking system by replacing the Glass-Steagall Act with the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, thereby paving the way for the Sub-prime scam in 2008-9. One wonders how much commission Bill got for that?
Obama bailed out the financial institutions responsible for the Sub-prime scam instead of tossing them in the slammer. One wonders how much commission Obama got for that?
Then Obama hopey-changed the DNC into the "Ghadaffi must go" and the "Assad must go" party and Bernie went along for the ride. One wonders how much commission Obama, Bernie and the Dems got for that?
Bernie shot himself in both feet when he went along with the Russia Meddling trope. He's either a gullible moron or an effing liar.

No-one should vote for a "chosen by the 0.1%" Dem candidate ever again. They're the sort of people Trump was whining about when he said:

"Our politicians have let the people down. They've let 'em down on the jobs front, they've even let them down on the War front. They've spent 6 Trillion dollars on Middle East wars...6 Trillion! We could have rebuilt this country twice! And we're gonna stop it. Simple as that."

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 14 2020 19:07 utc | 145

It's sad and strange that no one has come up with an alternative name, someone who could fight for the sort of agenda that Michael Hudson speaks about. If he weren't in his eighties maybe he'd take it on. Anyway, how come there is simply no credible person in the political landscape offering some sort of leadership?

Posted by: sarz | Apr 14 2020 19:41 utc | 146

ROFL   Trump just won the election.

Posted by: Ian2 | Apr 14 2020 20:26 utc | 147

sarz @146--

To answer your question, there are such people but they're made invisible by BigLie Media. No General can win without excellent support and leadership from the lower ranks, which is what my message continues to be. Sanders many bemoaners have always acted as naysayers trying to blunt, discredit, gainsay his basic--empowering--message that It's US, not me! That's the sort of Collectivist mindset that's fundamental to the formation of Solidarity; and Solidarity is required for a genuine National Movement Capable of retaking the Federal Government from the Swamp critters and their owners. One example, sarz, of where to find such leaders is the Public Banking arena, where the titular head Ellen Brown at 75 is just a tad younger than Hudson.

The fundamental point Hudson made in an interview about a year ago is there needed to be a "Big Political Fight" over the ideological basis of political-economic control. Even within our locked-down pandemic environment, that Fight is still afoot. As I thought it might, the Ideological discussion/debate has come full circle since 1783-7 and "Federalism vs Anti-Federalism" has resumed, although few would know it since it's been ignored since Goldwater in 1964--the stakes upon which it revolves are much different and higher now, however. When will the Critical Mass be reached is unknown but it's now quite unlikely this year, although new subversives will enter Congress regardless who wins POTUS.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 14 2020 20:48 utc | 148

ben @144:

We had a strong ant-war movement in the late 60's and early 70's, vets helped end the Viet Nam war. So, in a time end-less war, where is the movement now?

To be fair, the 60's-70's Anti-war Movement "faded away" ONLY AFTER it's main goal had been achieved: ending the Vietnam War.

And 'fading away' took two decades or more. Because antiwar activists know that USA/Empire inclination to war as not disappeared.

I know that there was an entire building in NYC (in the village) that was dedicated to anti-war and peace activism and there were activists there until the 2000's when it was finally sold. I think some of the activists moved elsewhere.

FYI: After Trump killed Iranian Gen. Soleimani, there were peace marches demonstrations in a number of US cities.

FYI: The Civil Rights Movement still goes on.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 14 2020 20:51 utc | 149

Rob #128

"... he was essentially blocked from any chance of winning"

Excuses like that didn't stop Trump from winning.

Face it, Sanders had no plan, no determination, no desire to win. He gave up to Biden in the middle of the greatest threat to the status quo oligarchy in U.S. history. A real leader would have jumped at this opportunity to make huge waves that would have given legs to the ideas he championed.

Posted by: krypton | Apr 14 2020 21:08 utc | 150

@ 149: All true, but, so will the pro-worker movement go on, to one degree or another, no matter the current spokes person.

It's the message, not the person..

Posted by: ben | Apr 14 2020 22:10 utc | 151

Biden is now ridin' the coattails of President Obama's eight years in office, a real decent sidekick, no malarkey!

You know, the eight disastrous years that brought us Trump? Those soiled coattails.

Posted by: Trisha | Apr 14 2020 22:11 utc | 152

@ 150 said;"Excuses like that didn't stop Trump from winning."

Seriously? Trump had the ENTIRE MSM giving him billions of wall to wall coverage 24-7.

AND an entire cadre of billionaires backing him. ( the Adelsons, Mercers, and the Koch bros.) to name a few.

Posted by: ben | Apr 14 2020 22:20 utc | 153

What you're saying is that Sanders lacks the take-no-prisoners mentality of Donald Trump, and I cannot disagree. But that is Bernie's nature. End of discussion. Nevertheless, he took up the progressive mantle, because there was no one else to do it. Can you name another leftist figure who could have made as big an impression as Bernie did without actually winning? Can you name one who could have won? In Trump's case, he was the natural outgrowth of the Tea Party movement, so for him, taking over the Republican Party was relatively easy, given his natural aggression and cruelty. There is no comparable movement on the left that Sanders could have ridden to victory. And he is too decent to play rough and dirty. Under the circumstances, he probably did as best as he could, though I would have enjoyed watching him take on the corporate media for their open hostility towards him (until after he dropped out, the bastards).

Posted by: Rob | Apr 14 2020 22:28 utc | 154

My last post was directed at krypton (150).

Posted by: Rob | Apr 14 2020 22:30 utc | 155

Ammunition for Revolution: "'Beyond Predatory': Trump Treasury Department Gives Banks Green Light to Seize $1,200 Stimulus Checks to Pay Off Debts."

I hinted at this last week; now it's official. Another attack by the Kleptocrats in the ongoing Class War. I hope there're lots of already pissed off NRA Trumpers ready to willing to tell the Banksters to Make My Day. Does anyone here know why Bonnie & Clyde, Dillinger, and Ma Barker were very popular during the 1930s? They made War on the Banks, and the Banks were rightly seen as the #1 Enemy.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 14 2020 22:52 utc | 156

Fellow Americans, there is a petition on the "We the People" web site - We the American People demand Paper Ballots in the November 2020 federal elections. It requires an email address for confirmation. Paper ballots should be used in every election/voting, imho.

Posted by: teatree | Apr 14 2020 23:23 utc | 157

#153, #154

Being Canadian I'm certainly no expert in American politics but from my vantage point Trump got a lot of media coverage because of his brazen aggressiveness and willingness to say extreme things about the establishment and about the other candidates. It made for good ratings and Trump played that game extremely well. As for the billionaires, Trump was a billionaire himself and didn't need or depend on their money. What must be galling to many of his supporters Sanders not only threw in the towel when he lost all hope of winning the nomination, but then he proceeded to enthusiastically support and endorse a senile corrupt basket case who represented the opposite of everything he purportedly believed in. Losing the race is one thing. Bowing down and carrying water for the other side is quite another.

Posted by: krypton | Apr 14 2020 23:32 utc | 158

Rob @154:

What you're saying is that Sanders lacks the take-no-prisoners mentality of Donald Trump ...

No. That's a strawman. A "take-no-prisoners" mentality is not required to win. Bernie could win in his own way. But he didn't really try.

=
But that is Bernie's nature.

It's in the nature of politicians to win elections. Bernie has done that many times. He knows what it takes to win office. And he knows what it takes to stand up to a corrupt establishment (from his days in the Civil Rights Movement).

But he's not really interested in upsetting the status-quo. He's friends with many of the most powerful people in the Democratic establishment. And Bernie knows that Israel needs the Empire (which is a bi-partisan project).

=
... he took up the progressive mantle, because there was no one else to do it.

No. He took up the progressive mantle IN THE PARTY so that the new generation of Millennials would not be enticed to a third-party or Movement.

=
Can you name another leftist figure who could have made as big an impression as Bernie did without actually winning?

Yeah. Obama the deceiver. He made a big impression and delivered virtually nothing to his supporters. Just like Bernie.

=
Can you name one who could have won?

This question is disingenuous. Focusing on the next election is a fools game. What's needed FIRST is a long-term Movement to restore democracy. Then maybe a progressive would have a chance.

=
In Trump's case, he was the natural outgrowth of the Tea Party movement, so for him, taking over the Republican Party was relatively easy, given his natural aggression and cruelty.

Do you honestly think that the Republican Party would not have done to Trump what the Democrats did to Bernie if they truly didn't like Trump as much as they claimed?

=
There is no comparable movement on the left that Sanders could have ridden to victory.

There was the Occupy Wall Street Movement. Which the Obama Administration obliterated.

=
And he is too decent to play rough and dirty.

LOL. His supporters have been played rough and dirty.

=
... I would have enjoyed watching him take on the corporate media for their open hostility towards him ...

We all would've enjoyed Bernie taking on the corporate media at any time during his two Primary runs ... but he never did that. Even as Trump (and others) spoke of "fake news", Bernie played nice with the Democratic Party mouthpieces.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 15 2020 0:22 utc | 159

"We really are disgusting creatures, from the tops of our heads to the fungus ridden disgusting things we call feet and our useless toe nails. It's no wonder that the virus curtails our sense of smell and taste (this has been going on for thousands of years), dogs have a better sense than we do at this point, they can smell disease and infections, they care not much as long as you don't die and continue feeding them. What horrible disgusting gully bags of water and bacteria and viruses we are.

We exfoliate, T-zone is greasy, acne yes, our ears create wax - it smells, although natural, we crust our eyes, we snot our nose, our mouths? Expiration can be deadly. Jesus don't go there, horrible! Moving on down to smelly bacteria ridden armpits, yeah, we created a whole section of how not to not smell with deodorants fact is 60% of people smell bad - the science isn't out on why the rest are naturally good smelling.

Our lower abdomens are are thoroughly disgusting, yet we continue through some force of nature to explore each others bacteria ridden genitalia and other orifices."

As I write this essay I will indeed invoke many responses. However, one cannot deny we are filthy creatures, and we'd better figure out why we are here and what the hell we are doing here anyways.

Posted by: Gravatomic | Apr 15 2020 0:54 utc | 160

Gravatomic @160--

Why are we here?

I suggest reading what Reg Morrison has to say; his thesis was seconded by Microbiologist and symbiotic theorist, the late Lynn Margulis. She wrote the Forward to his Spirt in the Gene. IMO, his thesis is quite likely.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 15 2020 1:20 utc | 161

@ 144 ben.. thanks ben... hopefully this will change..

@ 135 kadath... i dunno kadath.. there are a lot of things to be unhappy with about canada, but my impression is the angst is nowhere near as great as it is in the usa.. i could be wrong.. take the way the 2 gov'ts have responded to this crisis.. i think canada is putting the lives and welfare of the people ahead of economics and they are willing to pay those who are now unable to work for the next little while.. what is the usa doing here? it looks pretty nada to me.. i don't wish anything but the best for the usa in fact, as we are very much connected to the usa for good and bad.. that is the simple view from this canuck..

usa politics seems like reality tv or something where the biggest loudmouth and bite sized quote friendly wins.. it is no longer about substance, but just about some kind of crazy hollywood type manufactured reality.. i guess that is what i mean by reality tv... it is really quite insane from an outsiders point of view... i can't see it changing any time soon either... sanders seemed like a decent human being, so that automatically means he had to be disqualified from the wh... biden or trump on the other hand capture the sleazeball factor in spades, so they must be put up at the alter of the presidency.. lol.. wish it was different, but that is what it looks like to this canuck..

Posted by: james | Apr 15 2020 1:31 utc | 162

@karlof1 | Apr 15 2020 1:20 utc | 161

Thank you - Spirt in the Gene.

Mitochondrial research, see you there!

Posted by: Gravatomic | Apr 15 2020 1:41 utc | 163

@Jackrabbit (159) As I said earlier, lots of purists, not much common sense. In none of the scenarios that you enumerate could Sanders have overcome the institutional rigidity of the Democratic Party establishment and their lapdogs in the media. Running on Occupy Wall Street in 2020 is seriously delusional. The same for any third party or independent challenge. Wishing can't make it so.

Posted by: Rob | Apr 15 2020 2:41 utc | 164

William Gruff @ 93

You’re correct about Operation Mockingbird, the CIA and the Democratic Party hierarchy.

Have you seen this documentary released just 5 days ago and already well over 6 Million views on its main YouTube channel (plus many more on other YouTube channels, Vimeo etc)? Details that suggest who are the puppet masters controlling it all:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=MY8Nfzcn1qQ

Posted by: PJB | Apr 15 2020 7:49 utc | 165

Edward Snowden in a recent interview with Glen Greenwald on System Update

"...human emotion is itself viral and emotions that have the largest contagion are anger and fear... and what we are seeing now is panic and fear sweeping around the world...that moment of vulnerability when rationality goes out the window. All humans are susceptible to it."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd7exbDzU1c&t=142s

Posted by: krypton | Apr 15 2020 8:52 utc | 166

Posted by: krypton | Apr 15 2020 8:52 utc | 166


Sorry, posted in wrong thread

Posted by: krypton | Apr 15 2020 9:10 utc | 167

@ben #153
True, but the MSM chose to give it because of what Trump did.

HRC's billion plus in spending, in comparison, is hardly nothing.

As for billionaires: really?
For every Adelson, I'll raise you a Pritzker (who was named Commerce secretary much like Wilbur).
For every Koch, there's a Steyer.
For every Mercer, there's a Bloomberg (who even ran this year).

Puh-lease.

This is clearly a case of orthodoxy being one's doxy, but heterodoxy (hereticism) being someone else's doxy.

Posted by: c1ue | Apr 15 2020 15:37 utc | 168

For a moment, I thought I was clicked to the wrong thread with page two as I read off topic comments here.

To my amazement lately I find myself agreeing with b more often! I must say that everything he wrote is on point.

Now regarding the origins of the virus, more and more I'm thinking that the U.S. government, of which Ziofascist Trump is now the head of, making the usual mistakes, is spoiling for a big fight with China, or at least, as I wrote yesterday, is trying to paint China as global public enemy number 1, and if intelligence operators could plant incriminating evidence; nothing would hold them back. But enough with the intrigue.

Here's what I think. This virus is beyond its origin, has a life of its own and is on a mission. This virus has a karmic factor.

Already two pastors that I've read about (maybe there are others I don't know about; no doubt🙄) died from Covid-19. One called it mass hysteria and died end of March after Covid drowned both his lungs. The other died 2 days ago after he dared to preach to his parish in March that God is larger than the dreaded Covid virus and he wasn't afraid to die.

Anyone who isn't sobered by this virus, will be.

This virus has mileage to cover, and if you think you got lucky in Round 1; it'll try to get you the next time around and maybe the time after that and it's going to rain on the parade, and wreak havoc on livelihoods and the economy. Debt is not a safety net; it's immediate gratification for a pound of flesh. The government and bank won't coddle you forever.

Haven't you noticed? The party's over. There's a new normal emerging and it's time to get serious. If you do not take this virus and this karma seriously; it will come after you somehow.

There is non-sanitized tragedy unfolding in our face every day for a f**cking reason and no Dancing with the Stars to make it all feel better. The message is clear: Quit resisting and denying reality, don't run for the material fix and the distraction, get sober, get compassion, teach your children compassion, grow up and help...help make this world more humane, FCS!

Posted by: Circe | Apr 16 2020 4:52 utc | 169

Okay, it's late. I totally posted on the wrong thread. My bad.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 16 2020 5:36 utc | 170

Just read this over at the saker. Perfect summary of why even bothering to vote is a waste of time.

America's Rigged Democracy

A long read, but certainly worth it.

Posted by: David F | Apr 16 2020 7:53 utc | 171

**Democratic Majority for Israel (DMFI). The DMFI is a registered political action committee (PAC) that lobbies on behalf of the Jewish state. It was organized in 2019 by Democratic Party activists to counter what was perceived to be pro-Palestinian sentiment within the party’s progressive wing.

Is anyone aware of whether DMFI must be and is registered under FARA?
https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara

Posted by: stevelaudig | Apr 16 2020 16:29 utc | 172

A User @66

Belated answer -- thanks for the reminder re MoA rent. Sent all I can afford (low.) You have a point but the Harpy still wins by a wide margin in both name recognition and hysterectomized support, plus the savior syndrome.

Posted by: Piero Colombo | Apr 17 2020 13:56 utc | 173

Juliania, just out of curiosity: do you ever learn anything from life?

Posted by: Piero Colombo | Apr 17 2020 14:07 utc | 174

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