Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 16, 2020

The Pandemic Will Cause A Global Depression - We Need Demand Side Measures To Counter It

Last week's post on Boeing ended with this line:

The pandemic, and the global depression it will cause, now make it certain that Boeing will have to ask for a gigantic government bailout or go into bankruptcy.

With most flights grounded due to the pandemic Boeing is now thinking about cutting its production and laying off workers.

In the quoted sentence I used the words "the global depression it will cause" with care. I do indeed believe that a sustained, long-term downturn in economic activity in many countries will be one of the results of this pandemic.


bigger

The airline industry is just one of many that will be hit hard. About 70% of the U.S. GDP is generated by the service industry. Travel, entertainment, gyms, restaurants and bars, hotels, education will all be hit extremely hard by the finally coming shutdown. The U.S. will, like Germany did today, soon shutdown churches, brothels and other entertainment outlets.  Only a few service industries, like healthcare, online gaming and gun sales, will continue to strive.

The pandemic will be with us as a major danger for probably two or three years during which it will race around the globe in several large waves. Each wave will require another shutdown. To develop a vaccine against the SARS-CoV-2 virus is likely to take over a year but may take much longer. We may be more lucky with a new medication that can reduce the symptoms of the Covis-19 disease the virus is causing.

Restrictions on major parts of the service industry are therefore likely to be with us much longer than the one or two months that are currently anticipated. After the restrictions are over many people will have have changed their habits. The travel industry will not come back for a long time. The cruise industry will probably die. That is personal to me as the place where I learned to work metal depends on it.

There will also be lots of layoffs caused by this crisis which guarantees that demand will fall further off the cliff.

On Sunday's the Fed cut its interest rates to zero. That was a push on a string. Today the stock markets tanked another 10%. Crude is now below $30 per barrel and may well go down to $20/bl. The Fed move was likely demanded by Trump who last week remarked that he has the power to fire Fed chair Powell. The Fed should take care that the credit markets stay liquid as many companies will need additional resources. A credit crunch right now would increase the general damage. But Trump and the Fed should stop to push supply side measures like interest rate cuts and tax relieves. There is no lack of investment or supplies but a lack of demand and that will continue for at least the rest of the year.

Last week the House passed a bill with some emergency help. It was mostly fake. House leader Nancy Pelosi sold it as covering way more than it actually does:

The legislation secures paid emergency leave with two weeks of paid sick leave and up to three months of paid family and medical leave, according to Pelosi. It also enhances unemployment insurance. The legislation also increases federal funds for Medicaid, and bolsters funding for food assistance programs.

Those were a number of lies and even the neoliberal editors of the New York Times called her out:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Friday night celebrated the coronavirus legislation that passed early Saturday as providing paid sick leave to American workers affected by the pandemic.

She neglected to mention the fine print.

In fact, the bill guarantees sick leave only to about 20 percent of workers. Big employers like McDonald’s and Amazon are not required to provide any paid sick leave, while companies with fewer than 50 employees can seek hardship exemptions from the Trump administration.

“If you are sick, stay home,” Vice President Mike Pence said at a news conference on Saturday afternoon. “You’re not going to miss a pay check.”

But that’s simply not true. Sick workers should stay home, but there is no guarantee in the emergency legislation that most of them will get paid.

When even rightwing Republican Senators think that the Democratic leader of the House is not socialist enough something has changed:

Tom Cotton @SenTomCotton - 12:21 UTC · Mar 16, 2020

The House relief bill doesn’t go far enough & fast enough.

We’re going to do everything we can to get cash into the hands of affected workers & families as quickly as possible so we can all get through this pandemic together.

There are way more measures needed than Pelosi's bill allows for. The government must cover all costs for virus testing and Covid-19 care. It must pay sick leave to everyone who has to stay home independent of their job status. Not providing such will prolong the crisis as infected people who need to work because they lack money will otherwise continue to spread the virus.

The U.S. and other economies will also need a fiscal injection on the demand side. Send a $5.000 check to every household which makes less than $100,000 per year and include the homeless in it. The money can be taken from the defense budget. A 355 ship navy will never stop a pandemic.

The last global social and economic shock of this size came after 9/11. The fall of the towers changed the world. It became the justification for militarized policies and large defense budgets. The pandemic will cause changes of a comparable size.

Public demands and political priorities will change. Health crisis preparedness and response will become a new priority issue. Globalization will become more restrained while global cooperation on health issues will likely increase.

This crisis is not the end of the world but it will be the impetus for significant changes.

---
Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the issue:

Posted by b on March 16, 2020 at 18:34 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Norwegian | Mar 17 2020 12:36 utc | 165

That song is brilliant! I can totally see it as the anthem of the next Occupy Wall Street, which won't be nearly as nicey-nicey as the original. Something about learning lessons...

Here's an even more hilarious version singer Gene Burnett points us to... enjoy!

Posted by: Vintage Red | Mar 17 2020 15:27 utc | 201

vk @198

Lots of countries have been looking for excuses to unload their US$ reserves. Considering the Fed's negative interest rates, the covid could just be a convenient excuse to dump dollars without triggering yet another scare in global finance. It's what I would do if I were in their shoes. Never let a good crisis go to waste, eh?

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 17 2020 15:30 utc | 202

The Off-Guardian just posted an interesting article by Catte Black. Here's a snip:

The more the fear porn ramps up, the less certain I become of any aspect of the narrative surrounding it. We are definitely all being discouraged from questioning its virulence, discouraged from referring to its official fatality and case numbers, which do not correlate with the level of fear we are being told is appropriate. There is certainly a massive and multifaceted attempt to fudge and inflate those numbers to bring them in line with the ‘response’.

This brings us back to our revelation that good old Wikipedia have been downgrading the CFR of the Spanish Flu. It’s hard not to see this as part of the same process.

The actual death rates just aren’t high enough. So talk them up, play pea and thimble games with the stats, and do some Memory-Holing so that the 1918 pandemic suddenly has a very similar CFR, allowing your tame media to make all the right comparisons in their op eds and editorials, pointing out how many millions died back then despite it only having a fatality ratio of 2.5%.

...Do the alt-media types backing these extreme quarantine and self-isolation notions think the anti-assembly laws, mandatory vaccines and other special powers will all just vanish once this crisis has subsided (because all pandemics eventually do go away)? Do they think the de facto martial law will be temporary? Do they think we can just ask nice and everything will go back to the way it was?

Panic Pandemic – Why are people who should know better buying the Covid19 hype?

I've been wary of the bogus statistics being used to stir up panic, but YMMV. To me, the deceitful re-writing of the 1918 influenza stats says psyop.

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 17 2020 15:34 utc | 203

Posted by: JB | Mar 17 2020 12:51 utc | 171

Conspiracy theorists are always anti-EU, and believe it ought to have collapsed yesterday. Varoufakis is a theoretical, not a practical economist. Somehow the EU never does collapse, as they predict, and there's a good simple reason why not.

I'm hardly surprised to see Mina reinforcing her obsession (re 176).

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 17 2020 15:36 utc | 204

I've had it with "social distancing" since the term has no stable meaning but can mean literally anything, so when someone uses it by itself there's no way to tell what they really advocate.

I've seen it mean everything from "Continue to live life, get outside, do the things you enjoy, get together with people in small groups, just keep a few feet away" [which is what I advocate] to "Weld yourself shut inside your bomb shelter and never emerge again."

Posted by: Russ | Mar 17 2020 15:38 utc | 205

"The serious problem I see here is that journalists world-wide are telling us all it seriously serious, but I believe that's got a lot more to do with careers, ratings, and making profits for their plutocratic lords and masters..."

The weakness in these theories, that this is all a hoax arranged by the capitalist class, is that there is never a credible explanation of why they should do this-interrupting their fleecing of the masses. Putting the stability of the system, which is working perfectly for them, at risk.

If those who say that this is overblown, a deliberate campaign to distract attention, just another 'flu outbreak, could explain why it is happening they should do so.
So far all we've heard is nonsense on the lines of "swindling pensioners" (as if that was not already going on in a very efficient manner) or 'so that they can attack Iran/Russia/you name it'. Does anyone seriously think that the US population needs to be distracted to permit an attack on Iran? The only thing preventing an attack on Iran is Iran's military and its allies.

The reality is very simple: the ruling class fear nothing more than an awakened population. And this crisis is forcing people to wake up. It turns the matter of neo-liberalism from a theoretical dispute among philosophers into a matter of life and death for millions, waking up to the fact that there is no healthcare system to protect against disease, and epidemics in particular, just an industry serving consumers ready to pay for the service.
People are waking up to the fact that all the charity hospitals, tax exempt insurance scams and heavily subsidised institutions are just another way of picking the pockets of the working class and filling those of the 1% and their whores in the media, Academy and politics.
Why would the ruling class draw attention in this dramatic fashion to the failures which have been part of the market system for millennia?
The problem with these theories, which invariably come down to reinforcements of the reactionary idea that 'resistance is impossible, the ruling elites have everything worked out and, apart from people, like ourselves, smart enough to see through the propaganda, people are stupid', is that they are circular. They tell us nothing about reality but everything we need to know about an intellectual school which has stopped trying to understand, still less to change, the world on the grounds that most people are unable to do anything and not worth saving anyway.
This is the gateway to fascism and over it is written "Nothing is happening. The Universe is unfolding as it must. Do not trouble yourselves trying to work things out (put those pitchforks away!). Nothing can be done.Except to sneer at the poor. And talk like nazis about culling the old, or the sick or the insane....."

This system is in a crisis, it is as weakened by the virus as all the elderly are. And those who say otherwise are the last allies that it has, like priests running around as the angry peasants, sharpening their scythes, assemble in front of the Palace, anxious to keep the people from focusing on the cause of their problems, desperate to keep the exploiters' scam alive.
Across North America there are millions, today, unemployed, their meagre savings are being depleted, their stocks of food and fuel are running down. All this in an atmosphere of fear verging on panic and anger... and you are telling us it is all a hoax? A game to amuse the billionaires? Anyone who believes that is revealing not his wisdom but his contempt for humanity.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 17 2020 15:41 utc | 206

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 17 2020 15:36 utc | 205

"Varoufakis is a theoretical, not a practical economist. Somehow the EU never does collapse, as they predict, and there's a good simple reason why not."

Well, the criminal Varoufakis and his fellow Syriza con artists certainly did their best to prevent its collapse.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 17 2020 15:42 utc | 207

Just a matter of time till every hospital will have Shin Bet's app to check on their patient's social interaction history.

Israel Moves to Tap Secret Trove of Cellphone Data

March 16, 2020 at 8:57 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 25 Comments

“Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel has authorized the country’s internal security agency to tap into a vast and previously undisclosed trove of cellphone data to retrace the movements of people who have contracted the coronavirus and identify others who should be quarantined because their paths crossed,” the New York Times reports.

“The unprecedented move to use data secretly gathered to combat terrorism for public health efforts was authorized on Sunday by Mr. Netanyahu’s holdover cabinet. But it must still be approved by Parliament’s Secret Services Subcommittee before its existence lapses at 4 p.m. Monday, upon the swearing-in of a new legislature. That is by no means assured.”

“The existence of the data trove and the legislative framework under which it is amassed and used have not previously been reported.”

The Open Secret

Of course what the Fake News rag NYT is reporting is nothing new,

Old News

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 17 2020 15:43 utc | 208

john brewster | Mar 17 2020 15:34 utc | 204

Do the alt-media types backing these extreme quarantine and self-isolation notions think the anti-assembly laws, mandatory vaccines and other special powers will all just vanish once this crisis has subsided (because all pandemics eventually do go away)? Do they think the de facto martial law will be temporary? Do they think we can just ask nice and everything will go back to the way it was?

Panic Pandemic – Why are people who should know better buying the Covid19 hype?

That doesn't sound any more likely than how the post 9/11 "anti-terrorist" measures ever vanished.

As with so many other things, our "alternative", "dissident" types talk tough when nothing seems immediately at stake, but the moment things start to look serious they run home to authoritarian mama. Almost no one has bona fide principles any more. Everything's fake. And that's why it's always so easy for governments to continue their totalitarian progress.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 17 2020 15:47 utc | 209

@ information_agent | Mar 17 2020 15:25 utc | 199 (correlation)

Indeed, so do I...but not very much, of course the rationalization by which any person may be "quarantined" is plastic and protean, and "troublemakers" and "spreaders of rumor" are targets. MacBeth ordered them hanged...primitive and insufficient, as he discovered.

@ Vintage Red | Mar 17 2020 15:25 utc | 200...(mutinies)
Iranian Professor Marandi> "This opportunity to bring down US led plutocracies & oligarchies and their bestial global hegemony must not be squandered."

We are not the only people to notice, and yes, 05 comes first if the song of change rhymes.

Local cops away from cities are another matter - they live in the county or town and function more like constables as the Sheriffs are elected (and dis-elected) locally...they will have decisions to make.

Meantime> "Die doppelte Hölle von Lesbos" (Tagesspiegel) predicts violence...

In Soviet Times...well, this comes to mind, a key but forgotten matter>

"...Polish-Soviet War Brusilov published in Pravda an appeal entitled “To All Former Officers, Wherever They Might Be”, encouraging them to forgive past grievances and to join the Red Army.[3] Brusilov considered it as a patriotic duty of all Russian officers to join hands with the Bolshevik government, which in his opinion was defending Russia against foreign invaders." Aleksei Alekseevich Brusilov (Russian: Алексе́й Алексе́евич Бруси́лов; 19 August [O.S. 31 August] 1853 – 17 March 1926)

We had Smedley of the USMC...and so we may have an American Brusilov as rhyme... I do not know... But I'd bet on that in the context of mutiny...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 15:54 utc | 210

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 17 2020 15:34 utc | 204

That's why 24/7 on TV and in Radio they remind all that even the movie stars, politicians, generals and A-list politicians wives are getting it. We are all One. We are All in danger. We are All getting it.

Well Tom Hanks and Trudeau's story I don't buy simply because these people are the top of the line manipulators.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 17 2020 16:06 utc | 211

Tom_LX | Mar 17 2020 14:33 utc | 191

I must of really touched a sensitive nerve when I commented on your silly anti-vax BS.
So let's be clear. You my friend appear to be suffering from a serious persecution complex.

Try looking into a mirror yourself and say "I know I get crazy batshit mad when someone disagrees with me but being wrong doesn't mean I'm a bad person. Old and set in my ways maybe. But not bad.

So va fungool yourself!

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 17 2020 16:10 utc | 212

I was watching Bloomberg TV yesterday while doing my daily stretching and one of their guests (I can't remember his name most likely as I am in the corona virus at-risk demographic) made a remarkably cogent point about the corona virus danger to the US economy.
He said that the race was between containing the virus and bankruptcy.
His point was that the average US small business has 27 days of liquidity, after that they run of money and are forced to close/declare bankruptcy. Since small business employs the majority of US citizens, if the virus is not contained enough within 4 weeks to allow people to return to work or normal shopping/social activity there will be a major spike in unemployment and a collapse in business activity. He made the point as well that the focus on providing liquidity to the banking system, wall street, hedge funds, etc. missed the point. If you don't offer some fiscal support to small and medium businesses, you collapse the economy. Collapse the economy and you have a depression and most likely social unrest.
Then Bloomberg went back to their usual run of bankers all talking about bond trading liquidity, VIX spikes, etc. etc.

Posted by: lone plateau | Mar 17 2020 16:11 utc | 213

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 17 2020 16:10 utc | 213

Pulling your chain just made my day dip shit.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 17 2020 16:13 utc | 214

fyi> "Communicable Disease Control in California" manual (pdf)COMMUNICABLE DISEASE CONTROL IN CALIFORNIA This practice guide is a...

just put in search engine...74 pages.

.........

Wally agrees with the idea that 1) is real epidemic, 2) is weapon, 3) intense propaganda suggests it's a colonized epidemic... The idea being that they're using the epidemic to further agendas...

"weapon" does not mean "attack", but yeah, maybe it's an attack... If so, then we are the target.

Is not an either/or Is both.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 16:14 utc | 215

lone plateau | Mar 17 2020 16:11 utc | 214 (see Keiser E 1515 @ RT (it's 1929 (they say) Wally thinks it's bigger n that...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 16:25 utc | 216

@135: follow-up

Trump continues to use the term "Chinese virus".

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 17 2020 16:25 utc | 217

Well, the criminal Varoufakis and his fellow Syriza con artists certainly did their best to prevent its collapse.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 17 2020 15:42 utc | 208

It's pretty well known that Varoufakis resigned at an early stage, and did not put anything into action, but you don't seem to have noticed this. The rest of Syriza did have to act, but then they are not Varoufakis.

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 17 2020 16:32 utc | 218

to ashino # 185 - Yes. I and many others (unfortunately not enough others) have been saying that for years - decades. And, unfortunately, for years/decades the most common responses are: blank looks; shoulder shrugs; outright hostility. After all, "those" people, those "thems" over there - are not like "us," so they should shut up and stop complaining. It's god's will or some other similar BS. The response which really infuriates me is "what has that got to do with me?"

Oh well. Happy St Paddy's to all you bar flies. I'm toasting with a glass of irish single malt. Thanks for your posts and thanks to b. Cheers.

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Mar 17 2020 16:33 utc | 219

I see the "it's a nothing-burger, counter-narrative" is being fully employed, while there are no comments about Steve Keen's CoronaBond idea or Pepe Escobar's hints at what he had published today:

"The working hypothesis of coronavirus as a very powerful but not Armageddon-provoking bio-weapon unveils it as a perfect vehicle for widespread social control – on a global scale....

"The chessboard is changing at breakneck speed. Once Beijing identified coronavirus as a bio-weapon attack the 'people’s war' was launched with the full force of the state. Methodically. On a 'whatever it takes' basis. Now we are entering a new stage, which will be used by Beijing to substantially recalibrate the interaction with the West, and under very different frameworks when it comes to the US and the EU....

"We are still barely starting to understand the consequences of Covid-19 for the future of neoliberal turbo-capitalism. What’s certain is that the whole global economy has been hit by an insidious, literally invisible circuit breaker. This may be just a 'coincidence.' Or this may be, as some are boldly arguing [link at original], part of a possible, massive psy-op creating the perfect geopolitlcal and social engineering environment for full-spectrum dominance."

Global Times has launched a full broadside of op/eds and editorials aimed directly at Trump and other Outlaw US Empire pundits I their attempt to smear/blame China to cover-up their own huge shortcomings in response to COVID-19. The rhetoric is tactful yet forceful. IMO, the Hybrid Third World War was escalated to a new level just short of "Armageddon" as Escobar evaluated.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 17 2020 16:33 utc | 220

crisis verses non crisis, or panic, verses non panic... hoax, verses not a hoax..

the problem as exampled with italy is that the hospital system is over run and they don't have enough ventilators to deal with it.. thus others who are not suffering covid 19 get taken out in this.. those who say this is overblown are not looking at the reality in the hospitals where they are dealing with it directly.. this is not overblown as i see it..

and it's the biggest hit on the private finance world in my lifetime too... this event is a life changing event for the planet as i see it.. i don't agree with those who say this is overblown..

Posted by: james | Mar 17 2020 16:38 utc | 221

and as for b changing his mind on this..........

would you prefer b to not reassess the situation and change his thinking? maybe he got it wrong in the first part, but is willing to change his position..

Posted by: james | Mar 17 2020 16:41 utc | 222

221, agree absolutely. there's a great post on sypers by indy from col. cassin. i won't attempt to link for fear of formatting tangle, but a really great find. agree on GTs & pepe, with indy's post a very interesting morning.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Mar 17 2020 16:43 utc | 223

@karlof1 | Mar 17 2020 16:33 utc | 221 (Pepe) Year, deliberate negligent or accidental "It's on mofo..."

Butreessed by JR

@ Jackrabbit | Mar 17 2020 16:25 utc | 218 Trump continues to use the term "Chinese virus".

As boys always are in adolescence they have crude ways and language - as boysout Wally used to hear the general truism about smelly flatus, which was "he who smelt it, dealt it."

And Wally suspects the Clown's telling us that the US did indeed, "dealt it..."

And it does smell like a con...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 16:48 utc | 224

@Mina #194:

Are there statistics of how many ppl have been tested?

For Russia, yes: 116,061 tested, 114 confirmed, 5 recovered, 0 deceased.

Posted by: S | Mar 17 2020 16:51 utc | 225

Plans of future events are made years ahead, so said General Wesley Clark The Hit List

Detect, Deter and Annihilate: How the Police State Will Deal with a Coronavirus Outbreak
Written by John W. Whitehead
Tuesday March 17, 2020
.....
Indeed, zombie fiction perfectly embodies the government’s paranoia about the citizenry as potential threats that need to be monitored, tracked, surveilled, sequestered, deterred, vanquished and rendered impotent.

Why else would the government feel the need to monitor our communications, track our movements, criminalize our every action, treat us like suspects, and strip us of any means of defense while equipping its own personnel with an amazing arsenal of weapons?

For years now, the government has been carrying out military training drills with zombies as the enemy. In 2011, the DOD created a 31-page instruction manual for how to protect America from a terrorist attack carried out by zombie forces. In 2012, the CDC released a guide for surviving a zombie plague. That was followed by training drills for members of the military, police officers and first responders.


link

"Zombie" = virus infected protesters/rebels ??? Most likely data is being collected to see how potential "zombies" act under stress to have better models for the Future.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 17 2020 17:00 utc | 226

Chinese fashion-conscious youth employing protective measures against SARS-CoV-2: twitter.com/poupoi2000/status/1239858410444775425.

Posted by: S | Mar 17 2020 17:04 utc | 227

Economic consequences--

This is both a demand and supply crisis, not merely demand as the central banks are saying/reacting. Keen's right in saying a huge liquidity crisis exists, but its the 99% that face that crisis, not the Money Power, and they must be bailed out somehow, and he proposed the Corona Bond idea that I linked to twice yesterday that got zero comments. Keen explains it here, but the exponential discussion at the beginning is also important. More discussion on the oil price part of the situation is here.

And here we have an expose of the reasons why the Chinese are incensed--the lies and smears of Pompeo and Trump are such that neither should be believed about much of anything--an aspect going back to day 1 of TrumpCo:

"What are these people trying to prove? Do they imagine that blaming the 'Chinese Communist Party' is in some fashion going to lessen the effects of Covid-19? Do they think their silly posturing has assisted one single member of the human race to avoid or recover from the disease? With such mindsets they are not fit to be in any position of legislative or administrative responsibility." [My Emphasis]

The effort of Trump and the Outlaw US Empire is clearly to impede if not completely halt Eurasian Integration and BRI; yet, their actions are pushing them closer together. Its attempt of one last stab at attaining its #1 policy goal of Full Spectrum Dominance has clearly blown back in Trump's and the Current Oligarchy's face as the economic damage is just beginning. And if the US federal government doesn't enact relief legislation for its citizens and their businesses, a far worse situation will arise.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 17 2020 17:05 utc | 228

james | Mar 17 2020 16:38 utc | 222 ("and it's the biggest hit on the private finance world in my lifetime too... this event is a life changing event for the planet as i see it.. i don't agree with those who say this is overblown.. ")

I believe the implied assumption that it must be one or the other is false. Of course it's real as hell, and of course they're colonizing the story so it is, of course "overblown". Attacks are generally shaped by propaganda in a war... So are retreats.

By design? Well, yeah...

But the "enemy" always gets a "vote", so their plan may not, almost surely will not, produce their desired result... They know this, that why the Zombie exercises...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 17:11 utc | 229

@Tom_LX #215:

. . .dip shit.

Let’s keep the conversation polite.

Posted by: S | Mar 17 2020 17:15 utc | 230

Am J Public Health. October, 2009

The open-air treatment of pandemic influenza.
Hobday RA1, Cason JW.
Author information
Abstract

The H1N1 "Spanish flu" outbreak of 1918-1919 was the most devastating pandemic on record, killing between 50 million and 100 million people. Should the next influenza pandemic prove equally virulent, there could be more than 300 million deaths globally. The conventional view is that little could have been done to prevent the H1N1 virus from spreading or to treat those infected; however, there is evidence to the contrary. Records from an "open-air" hospital in Boston, Massachusetts, suggest that some patients and staff were spared the worst of the outbreak. A combination of fresh air, sunlight, scrupulous standards of hygiene, and reusable face masks appears to have substantially reduced deaths among some patients and infections among medical staff. We argue that temporary hospitals should be a priority in emergency planning. Equally, other measures adopted during the 1918 pandemic merit more attention than they currently receive.

link to paper

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 17 2020 17:17 utc | 231

see> "Coronavirus and the Sun: a Lesson from the 1918 Influenza Pandemic"
Richard Hobday @ medium.

I heard this stuff as a kid from relatives who worked that epidemic. Sunshine, fresh air, soap, water...and cooperative efforts.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 17:26 utc | 232

Willis Eschenbach at WuWT looked at the Diamond Princess in more detail: Diamond Princess nCOV breakdown
Interesting excepts:
Age breakdown: either really old or really young (as I've said before) Diamond Princess age demographics
48% of people infected with nCOV (tested positive) showed no symptoms. In light of the potentially high false positive rate, this should be taken with a grain of salt.
17% of the people on board wound up getting nCOV - despite documented examples of infected people serving food, etc. Trapped in a box...
Breakdown of the people who didn't get infected, by age group, shows there is not much difference in age when it comes to being infected. Diamond Princess non-infected by age demographic
Doesn't prove anything by itself, but does give some support to the idea that 30% or higher population infection numbers for nCOV are too pessimistic.
Of course, in reality, even 10% infection rates - if they happened more or less at the same time, would overwhelm hospital bed capacity.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 17 2020 17:27 utc | 233

Posted by: S | Mar 17 2020 17:15 utc | 231
No problem ;-)

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 17 2020 17:34 utc | 234

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 17:26 utc | 233

Old fashion hospitals had little parks where patients could take walks and take in the Sun.

The Old Way

But in the modern world they are not needed.

For almost 60 years Boston Children’s Hospital considered the acclaimed Prouty Garden an integral part of its mission. The garden’s donor, longtime hospital trustee Olive Higgins Prouty, who had lost two young daughters, had the word of then-President William Wolbach that the garden she was endowing in 1956 would remain forever. That commitment is about to end unless the board quickly rethinks its plan to demolish the garden in a proposed $1.2 billion project to overhaul the hospital’s neonatal intensive-care unit and replace 82 semi-private rooms with single rooms with showers and clothing storage.

link

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 17 2020 17:47 utc | 235

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 17 2020 17:47 utc | 236 Yes, that's the way may grandparents described it.

I would strongly suggest the long an thorough essay Unz in the matter.

"Is the Global Pandemic a Product of the Elite’s Malthusian Agenda and U.S. Biowarfare?" Max Parry

Author ties things together rather well, I think.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 17:53 utc | 236

Just to skip a few rocks across the pond ...

At last the NatSec people have an adversary they cannot bomb, threaten, or affect at all, really. Various "defense exercises" that were otherwise impossible to stop, are now being cancelled. The military, the defense bidness, is intrinsically a herd-society, ripe for the infection.

This impotence will be exploited, as it is already being exploited in ME. Expect more.

The fundamental threat posed by the virus (aside from lots of dead people, collapsed health care systems) was always economic. This will not wipe any large population out as far as one can tell today, it will bankrupt many.

Whether the Chinese had it in mind or not, the shutdown was the perfect asymmetric response, a body blow where least expected. That Trump and his minions treated it as a PR problem from the beginning, first using it to cast aspersions on China, and then to poo-poo it here as an opportunity (for them) to exploit and reach for more, was just icing on the cake.

Now it is the Trump Dump.

The monied and privileged "elites" have not shown any tactical or strategic sense that rises much above crude bullying and lying for many decades, else we would not be here now. All theorizing about their supposed plans must consider their incompetence before assuming we are all doomed. It is worth remembering that their disrepect for the non-rich is ideological in nature, and that is why their attempts to control the outcome is always too little and too late. Of course this problem has not been restricted to Capitalist societies, contempt for the underclasses/citizens, is the common factor in failed response, failute to take it seriously until it was too late. China almost fell in too, but recovered and will not stop now.

One must also consider the many very well armed citizens with military background and the generally narcissistic nature of American society these days. That will change, but it will take a while yet outside or those rural communities that still have functioning local economies and social arrangements.

All those prisons are just chock full of run down prisoners and unhealthy guards. Will the guards continue to show up for work? How long?

Now off to read Pepe.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 17 2020 17:54 utc | 237

Never ever let a disaster go to waist !!!!

13 March 2020
10:46 CET+01:00

Denmark's parliament on Thursday night unanimously passed an emergency coronavirus law which gives health authorities powers to force testing, treatment and quarantine with the backing of the police.
The far-reaching new law will remain in force until March 2021, when it will expire under a sunset clause.

"I was touched when I saw the whole Parliament standing up and voting for this," Health Minister Magnus Heunicke told Danish state broadcaster DR after the law passed.

"It is time to put aside party politics and be together to do what it takes to bring Denmark safely through this situation."
....
As well as enforcing quarantine measures, the law also allows the authorities to force people to be vaccinated, even though there is currently no vaccination for the virus.

It also empowers them to prohibit access to public institutions, supermarkets and shops, public and private nursing homes and hospitals, and also to impose restrictions on access to public transport.

Initially, the government wanted to the law to give the police the right to enter private homes without a court order if there is a suspicion of coronavirus infection. But this was dropped after opposition from parties in the parliament.


full story

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 17 2020 17:55 utc | 238


How 8.5m-population Chinese city dropped new Covid-19 cases to zero

Watch this excellent CGTN Nanjing City. The young man a foreigner, Japanese Takeuchi Ryo speak excellent Putonghua. Background: Nanjing City, China wartime Capital, where the Imperial Japanese Army massacred over 200,000 Chinese during China's century of humiliation

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-03-17/How-8-5m-population-Chinese-city-dropped-new-COVID-19-cases-to-zero-OWbiHdbLG0/index.html


Posted by: JC | Mar 17 2020 17:55 utc | 239

see> "COVID-19, The Wuhan Virus And The CIA’s Biological Warfare on Cuba" @ information clearing house


Points out some of the history, with the implication that those good fellas, since they've been dispensing disease since forever, might be behind the CV...

duh!

"he who smelt it..." Trumpie sez> "Chinese Virus" ???? What does that tell you

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 18:11 utc | 240

Told you so:

Volkswagen closes European factories amid COVID-19 productive chain interruption

Meanwhile, Dow Jones up 5% after the WH/Fed bails out big business in all but name.

Posted by: vk | Mar 17 2020 18:13 utc | 241

These guys are not wasting time. We have a women showing the way to the Brave New World.

First person to test coronavirus vaccine speaks out
March 17, 2020

Researches are in the clinical trial phase for a COVID-19 vaccine within a “record” number of days. Jennifer Haller, the first human coronavirus vaccine patient, joins MSNBC’s Ari Melber for an exclusive interview, detailing her experience as researches race to find a cure for the coronavirus affecting individuals around the world. Haller tells Melber she will have to do daily logs of her temperature, symptoms, and side effects and will be monitored for 14 months.

The News is in Winston

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 17 2020 18:29 utc | 243

There are worse things than empty store shelves. Like full shelves, guarded by gunmen who allow access to the shelves only with the permission granted by pieces of green paper or squares of plastic. There aren't, so far, armed guards stationed at every store, but they are only a phone call away, and always ready to arrest or kill anyone who takes food "without permission".

For people denied access to regular food stores, there is an entire alternate distribution system steadily built over the past decade, known as "food banks", and "soup kitchens", and often staffed by elderly volunteers, who are now afraid to volunteer. These "food banks" and "soup kitchens" depend on government and NGO grants, corporate donations, local small-business donations, and individual donations. Local business and individual donations will certainly dry up, and perhaps the other funding sources as well.

This alternate distribution system for food is now falling apart at the same time the demand curve for food banks is going straight up. During the last crisis (which never really ended) millions of families were tossed from their homes with little resistance. If these same people are now denied food as well, will they continue to be passive?

How long will hungry people be deterred by official gunmen blocking access to full shelves?

Perhaps "Peace, Land, Bread" will become a popular slogan once again...

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 17 2020 18:33 utc | 244

re karlof1 | Mar 17 2020 17:05 utc | 229

As you say, "Do they imagine that blaming the 'Chinese Communist Party' is in some fashion going to lessen the effects of Covid-19? Do they think their silly posturing has assisted one single member of the human race to avoid or recover from the disease? With such mindsets they are not fit to be in any position of legislative or administrative responsibility."

Especially so, since there is now even an admission from CDC Director Robert Redfield who, when asked last week whether some deaths by coronavirus had been discovered posthumously in the US, replied that “some cases have actually been diagnosed this way in the US today.” And this was directly quoted by Zhao Lijian, a spokesman for the Chinese Foreign Ministry. The insane idiots unleashed biowarfare against China and now blame the Chinese for it (going by their playbook).

See the article by Pepe Escobar," Event 201, sponsored by your friends, Bill and Melinnda Gates, held on the same day the World Military Games began in Wuhan -- one month before the outbreak in Wuhan.

These "people" need to be held accountable for their actions, which will kill tens of millions, not only from disease but economic collapse.

Posted by: Perimetr | Mar 17 2020 18:35 utc | 245

Apologies, the article by Peoe is China is locked in hybrid war with US

Always struggling with my crappy computer and being in too big a hurry

Posted by: Perimetr | Mar 17 2020 18:37 utc | 246

I'm pausing in reading comments to recommend JB's post above at 171. My daughter is working in a hospital whose resources are strapped in normal times due to privatization. This is where the danger of exponential explosion lies. I haven't read what Veroufakis has to say, but this is where danger lies, in our healthcare systems, as others have said. The neoliberal 'economy'of rampant privatization has no fall back strategy except to ask for government help - well, now only government can help our struggling healthcare system in dire times such as these. As they should have taken over and made public the corporations and banks asking for handouts in 2008, so too they now must make our hospital systems and healthcare operations public institutions! The problem is the same; the solution is the same!

This is a crisis out of which public good can come. Not just Medicare for all. Hospitals for all as well!

I will be voting Green Party this election cycle. We all should demand the above. It's not socialism; it is common sense.

Posted by: juliania | Mar 17 2020 18:37 utc | 247

Walter @217--

Just finished watching that newest of Keiser Reports where the Max-Stacy conversation was good and informative as usual, the second half interview was far more impressive for the following reason: As you listen, replace the term debt with the terms complex and complexity while recalling Joseph Tainter's main thesis from his Collapse of Complex Societies. My paraphrase:

Humans solve problems by applying a solution that's more complex than the item that failed, but there's a limitation on the positive returns for increasing complexity; and when that point's reached, the increase in complexity has a negative outcome--a negative return on investment. This result will be challenged by applying ever more complexity until the negative results reach a point where the society collapses.

That's precisely what the central bankers are doing: using ever more complex debt vehicles in an attempt to solve the problem their debt created in the first place. As Hudson points out at most every occasion, these monetarists hold onto their fallacious monetary theory and know no other way to manage an economic system since their Neoliberal theory is mere ideology backed by Junk Economics aimed only at enriching the already rich at the expense of everyone else. And for the game to continue, the manipulators must remain in control and cannot abide any peer competitor lest their game come undone. Thus, the targeting of Russia followed by China.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 17 2020 18:38 utc | 248

The sentence that got accidentally chopped out of my post 246 was supposed to say:
See article by Pepe Escobar is China locked in hybrid war with US. Among the "magnificent coincidences" that have occurred (in addition to the admission by Redfield) included Event 201, that was sponsored by your friends, Bill and Melinda Gates; Event 201 was held on the same day the World Military Games began in Wuhan -- one month before the outbreak in Wuhan.

Posted by: Perimetr | Mar 17 2020 18:44 utc | 249

in front of the cameras leaders in US/CAD/UK/EU are putting on the PR face. And why the lockdown and closures?

Behind the curtain, US healthcare professionals are discussing:
"More Than 100 million US Adults at Risk for Serious Illness if Infected by Coronavirus" and "A Million COVID-19 Cases Already, Global Estimates." !!!!!!

At this hr, 2:37 PM EDT, Current Stats are 195,874 worldwide.

And here is the panic:

The critical issue: ICU resources and Ventilators, according to the Society of Critical Care Medicine.


[.]The SCCM has updated its statistics on the resources available to care for what could become "an overwhelming number of critically ill patients, many of whom may require mechanical ventilation," [.]

That overwhelming number was considered at an American Hospital Association webinar in February: Investigators projected that 4.8 million patients could be hospitalized with COVID-19, of whom 1.9 million would be admitted to ICUs and 960,000 would require ventilator support, Neil A. Halpern, MD, director of the critical care center at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, New York, and Kay See Tan, PhD, of the hospital's department of epidemiology and biostatistics, reported.[.]

Since patients with COVID-19 are most often admitted to ICUs with severe hypoxic respiratory failure, the nation's supply of ventilators also may be tested. U.S. acute care hospitals own about 62,000 full-featured mechanical ventilators and almost 99,000 older ventilators that "may not be capable of adequately supporting patients with severe acute respiratory failure," Dr. Halpern and Dr. Tan said.

As U.S. hospitals reach the crisis levels anticipated in the COVID-19 pandemic, staffing shortages can be expected as well. Almost half (48%) of acute care hospitals have no intensivists, so "other physicians (e.g., pulmonologists, surgeons, anesthesiologists, etc) may be pressed into service as outpatient clinics and elective surgery are suspended," they wrote.[.]

LINK


Society of Critical Care Medicine Press Release


"Shortage of ICU Providers Who Can Operate Ventilators Would Severely Limits Care During COVID-19 Outbreak"

[.] that while the United States has significantly more critical care beds per person than any other country, COVID-19 could exhaust critical care resources leading to shortages and higher death rates unless hospitals plan ahead by implementing these recommendations.[.]

American leadership brags they have the best healthcare in the world.
No.
U.S. has the most expensive healthcare and the worst.

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 17 2020 18:48 utc | 250

karlof1 | Mar 17 2020 18:38 utc | 249 (complex solution expanding )

I will have to take break now, but I agree with you. I want to read Joseph Tainter. Jared Diamond I've done, and so forth.

I have mooted in the past "Jevons Limits". That's my adapted term...see Jevons' Paradox" and consider...I think that the "efficiency" that Jevons speaks of is you "complexity", at the least they are related.

In my province here @ Anoxia I see that though the schools are closed, they are running their kitchens and students can pick up meals...

Our judgement about this "LZ", ie being of one confession and one homogeneous race and class was, so far, good. They're cooperating as community under adversity.

later old man

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 18:49 utc | 251

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 18:11 utc | 241

"he who smelt it..." Trumpie sez> "Chinese Virus" ???? What does that tell you

Racism, plain and simple truth, China dun forget, Never forget.....

Tit for tap now one wonder why China retaliated....."China revokes press credentials of American journalists at 3 US newspapers and declares 5 US media outlets to be foreign government functionaries, identifying them as agencies controlled by Washington"

It's going to get worst from now on. China's Convid-19 heading to zero while Americas Covid-19 increases and compound Trump MAGA down the sewerage. Good luck Trump!!

Posted by: JC | Mar 17 2020 18:51 utc | 252

@ 230 walter.... james says lets revisit this in a few months... thanks..

Posted by: james | Mar 17 2020 19:07 utc | 253


Correction Tit for tat sorrie

Posted by: JC | Mar 17 2020 19:08 utc | 254

There are several ways of supporting citizens / out of work ppl / etc. during a disaster, be it brief or long-lasting. (Imho in the US the proposals are based on the odd idea that a few months will do the trick - No. - see b.)

The first (Gabbard, Romney as ex. I read) is to bail out citizens (as well as banks and Big Corps..while that is connected, it is another story..) by for ex. giving them 1K as a stipend, or 1K a month, or whatever, without other measures. Money fixes everything, or at least is tops / best.

Ppl can buy, pay for what they need. In fact, what they do, or will be obliged to do, is pay the fixed charges (rent, mortgage, cable, etc. or lower down the social ladder - their ‘owner’, small debts, small bribes for good will, for a store of food, etc.) sending the money to the overlords as usual (which surely these pols understand) in an attempt at ‘normality’ aka ‘keeping things going.’ (The sum quoted is not enough, but again a whole other discussion.)

The presuppositions are flat-earth: poor kids need school lunch as in normal times their parents can't feed them (err why?); if the schools close, the parents need money, etc. Now, one of my grand-parents died in WW2 quite rich, of hunger. Today, I have on my left hand a gold ring - it is by now quite worn - that the person could not sell, not even for a slice of bread. Other forms of tradable goods (paper money, their body… etc.) were of no use either. I wear it as a tribute and a symbol.

Destitute single mothers with 2 babbos in the US without transport except hitching (favors to be returned, sex, etc.) will soon be facing empty shops. Food deserts of a new kind - breakdown of the distrib. mechanisms. Money may not help.

The contrasted approach is to mobilise ppl to furnish to ppl ‘the basics’ or ‘what they need’. This is what China did, ensuring deliveries of Grocery Packs to households. Idk what happened with meds / other essentials in China, but one can imagine how that would have to be organised. The main points is to keep some basic, needed, essential production (and in the case of the US, **imports**!) going, and the ‘fair’ distribution of the goods possible, basically for free. As for needed services / other, again, coordination and transport are key issues.

Some half-n-half balance of the two strats. is imho most suited to “W” societies.

Much more could be said… The pols have not thought this out at all (or are faking), that is for sure. Ask any truck driver.

——————————

see also vk at 163 for more pol. type of discourse.

Pft at 61, that was interesting.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 17 2020 19:28 utc | 255

The US doesn't have brothels to close down. At least not legal ones.

Posted by: Michael Weddington | Mar 16 2020 19:34 utc | 16

What are the US, if not a brothel ?

Posted by: Beethoven | Mar 17 2020 19:37 utc | 256

Walter-
When you refer to your self in/as third person "wally says" - it's fucking creepy- as in sociopath creepy. "Wally says" and "Circe says" would be a truly psychotic episode... try not to break yourselves with all this psychosis going around. You just might catch the flu.

Posted by: CitizenX | Mar 17 2020 19:38 utc | 257

Seems there's some pendulum-movement going on,between Covid hoax,Covid big medical problem in the mind of readers.Anyway it's like that in my mind.Listening to Wolfgang Wodarg ,it sounds very plausible.Then all the deaths in Italy,so many sick people.I 'm really lost.The only way to establish covid-19 danger and mortality is comparing the numbers.Last winters mortality,compared to the ten years before.On the scale of a country,a region,even your city or county.

What really sickens me ,is the fact that all this brouhaha,fear-mongering and expert punditism is all about illness,the flu.It never occurs on the mind of people,that there is one big continuous epidemic of people starving from hunger,little children dwindling away for lack of food..Caused by finance.The whole world knows that this is caused by finance.Don't expect one of your democratically chosen mobsters to try to end that disease.I really don't mind if all the world's economy collapses.We have had time enough to mend things,but we would'nt.

Posted by: willie | Mar 17 2020 20:13 utc | 258

- I agree that there will come a long period of "economic stagnation". But the reason this "economic stanation" is going to happen is NOT the corona virus. The Corona virus is simply going to be the trigger that sets off this "stagnation". The REAL reason is that the total amount of debt kept growing and growing in the last (at least) 4 decades.
- What the world needs to do is to write off say 10%, 20% or a higher % of all debts.

Posted by: Willy2 | Mar 17 2020 21:24 utc | 259

CitizenX @ 258

Yeah, I had that reaction the first time I encountered Wally. And I mentioned exactly what you said to Wally. IIRC, he didn't bother to respond.

After listening to him for a few months, here's my takeaway. If you ignore the verbal tics (and I know it is creepy) and if you know how to filter, Wally has been around a long time and points to some obscure and interesting stuff.

Just treat him as a TV character, the friendly oddball, sorta like the Donald Sutherland character in Kelly's Heroes. That is, he might sound spacey; he might be annoying; but he ain't stupid. I've seen way worse on the internet. There was a jackass with moderator privileges on DKos,who called himself "The Magistrate" and spoke in Elizabethan English, ran a kangaroo court, banning genuine lefties for bullshit reasons.

No offense, Wally; but the third person still makes me want to check where the exit doors are. Other than that, I have no issues with you.

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 17 2020 21:38 utc | 260

Tom_LX | Mar 17 2020 16:13 utc | 215

"Pulling your chain just made my day dip shit."

Wow, that's really impressive

You sound like someone that can sit on an ice cream cone and tell what flavor it is.

BTW the correct spelling of "dip shit" is dipshit

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 17 2020 21:46 utc | 261

Ok you guys, ... Seriously it seems like a cruel farce and the theater of literary persona seems, well, appropriate, farcical... I'm an eccentric, but not a nut. It's literary style, and acting... I did pass on theater, but it would have been a natural (I've been told). I had no idea it upset people. No sweat.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 22:27 utc | 262

Doesn't bother me Walter.
The Abbreviations on the other hand sometimes hurt my head.
lol

Posted by: arby | Mar 17 2020 22:39 utc | 263

arby | Mar 17 2020 22:39 utc | 264 I'll try to do better.

Y'all know The Big Lebowski...??

"Wally" grew up in Hollywood... And is pretty faithful to memories. ("The Dude", Walter "doesn't anybody give a chit about the rules!!?")

Man, until the war actually hits ya', ya might as well bear and share witness, jus' fer the record.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 17 2020 23:23 utc | 264

"You're scaring the children, Walter!"

I laughed for real at the poor child's consternation.

Please don't water down your style, Walter. Your posts are a stimulating blend of fun and informative, and along with the posts of a few others they are ones that I never skip.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 18 2020 0:49 utc | 265

Off-Guardian just published (via Canada's Cory Morningstar) an interview with the former Chief Medical Officer of the province of Manitoba. He's not on board with the hype.

Dr Joel Kettner was being interviewed by phone on the March 15th episode of CBC’s Cross Country Checkup podcast, when the host abruptly cut him off. While the two earlier guests were very much taking the governmental line on the threat of Covid19, Dr Kettner was striking a different tone

To be clear, Dr Kettner is not a fringe or controversial character. He is professor of Community Health Sciences and Surgery at Manitoba University and former Chief Public Health Officer for Manitoba province. He was interviewed on Global News in January, when the pandemic was first hitting the news.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/17/listen-cbc-radio-cuts-off-expert-when-he-questions-covid19-narrative/

Posted by: Onty Expat | Mar 18 2020 0:56 utc | 266

@ walter.. your talking in the other person like that reminded me of the american author richard thompson who wrote a book called 'the killer inside me' was i thought was quite good... i am not phased by it... it is mildly entertaining..

Posted by: james | Mar 18 2020 1:08 utc | 267

Posted by: james | Mar 18 2020 1:08 utc | 268

It reminds me of Mr. Dooley but there were a number of US authors around that time and later that did similar things, Faulkner & Twain to name a couple. Now gone out of fashion, but we still have Trump and Pompeo.

Mr. Dooley swabbed the bar in a melancholy manner and turned again with the remark, "But what's it all to Pullman? When God quarried his heart a happy man was made. He cares no more for them little matters of life or death than I do for O'Connor's [bar] tab. 'The women and children are dying of hunger,' they say, 'will you not put out your hand to help them?,' they say. 'Ah, what the hell,' says George. 'What the hell', he says. 'James,' he says, 'a bottle of champagne and a piece of cranberry pie. What the hell, what the hell, what the hell'."

"I heard two died yesterday," said Mr. McKenna. "Two women."

"Poor things, poor things. But," said Mr. Dooley, once more swabbing the bar, "what the hell."

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 18 2020 1:49 utc | 268

@ 269 bemildred... lol... thanks for an entertaining example of a character i was unfamiliar with...

Posted by: james | Mar 18 2020 2:05 utc | 269

This is
A bit better and more realistic than your last piece, B.
My Son is now one of the casualties as he is a Chef and a co-worker got the virus. The whole restaurant is now shut down. He's very anxious about rent and bills that will come due this next 2 week's. There are now millions in my Son's place. If the gov continues to bail out banks hedge funds and corporations what this gov can expect is pitchforks rope and yellow vests.
When it affects people personally and they have nothing left to lose, that is when they are prepared to act. But I think this gov is hyping this virus to install martial law and move is into straight up right wing fascism.
REGIME change comes home to roost.

Posted by: Annie | Mar 18 2020 3:23 utc | 270

Below are 3 links to Xinhuanet that show

1. Why China was able to respond like they did

"Collectivism plays indispensable role in China's COVID-19 fight

2. What actions China is taking to respond to the economic dislocations

China to deepen reform of government functions, enhance employment stability

3. The details about China's standing up to lies and deceit from empire press

China takes countermeasures against restrictive measures on Chinese media agencies in U.S.

Humanity is in a civilization war about public/private finance and if the reports about China rebound from this are accurate then China will now easily take 1st place in the multipolar world that emerges from the humanitarian/economic debacle that the West has brung on its citizens.


Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 18 2020 5:05 utc | 271

In contrast to China, in the US that has just made $50 billion available for COVID-19 loans to state and local jurisdictions they are now being asked to backstop Boeing with a minimum of $60 billion.

Mitt Romney would tell you that corporations are people and they need more compassion than real humans. He is a full of shit Mormon.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 18 2020 5:28 utc | 272

Bevin @ 65

I am not a US citizen or resident, but have been following things American/US with interest once I had reached a routine adulthood and developed a taste for trying to understand “The Big Picture”. Through business travel to the US and subscriptions to American publications (I remember “The Saturday Evening Post” with particular fondness) I developed a better than average knowledge and insight into “The American Way of Life”. Naturally in my travels I met Americans of all stripes as well,

Since the early 60's, starting with the JFK assassination my respect for and assessment of the US has undergone a steady downward slide; I won't recount the litany of misguided decisions and actions, the unilateral breaking of agreements, growing belligerence and often criminal behaviour – most readers of this blog know what I am talking about. Now I have to make clear that all of these actions are government actions, quite often deplored by a majority of the American people that I got to know –and that is the real reason for this post.

I find it astounding that a nation that has a large proportion of educated citizens capable of critical thought has been somehow cowed into accepting the most ridiculous explanations of events that were key in shaping its history. Specifically, in my opinion, the killing of JFK and the events of 9/11.. Both of these have been placed in the history books as laughable fairy tales – tales that have been shown to have gaping holes, physical evidence contrary to physical laws and mind blowing inconsistencies. Yet, every attempt to have the official narratives revisited is somehow thwarted,

Americans have lost control of their history and seemingly their present and future as well. What you describe does not bode well. How does a country free itself from a leadership that is totally uncoupled from the interests of its people? It used to be pitchforks in earlier times. These days the criminals have police with tanks and helicopters.

Posted by: augrr | Mar 18 2020 8:06 utc | 273

@ john brewster | Mar 17 2020 21:38 utc | 261 John and all...Thanks, you guys.

I thought Sutherland was a great dark clown in "Kelly's Heroes". Wally could have played that part just as well, I think. It was a path not taken, Wally used to run a gas station near the studios in Hollywood, and faggy directors were always trying to get him into television, "Combat" I remember asked him three times to do extra work, but speaking parts, 'cause his German accent was good (not a native tongue, but pretty good at the time).

If you read "Literary Outlaw" (Morgan), - of the youth and times of Burroughs, especially the section on Chicago and New York, and watch some old Hunter Thompson interviews, and a few episodes of "The A-Team" sic> "The A-Team Funny Laughing Scene.wmv " for example, and Murdock > "Top 10 Funniest H.M. Murdock Moments" - and add in Catch 22...well, Wally would fit right in.

The Ranch School? (Burroughs) Indeed yes, that too, and asked to leave, as Burroughs was (but not for sodomy). Obviously a different school...

Wally was slightly acquainted with Hunter Thompson, in fact, but that was before his "Hell's Angeles" book... Now that guy really was nuts...

Never met Burroughs. Did used to work with a guy we called "Machine-gun Jim" who really did rob banks with a MAB-38 Beretta. (He only robbed banks when he ran outa of cocaine, not a real criminal...still know him slightly, he's dying now, slowly, from brain injuries, poor sod.

Anyway Wally and his XYL are Beats, last of them I suppose...and keen observers, former anthropology major, English majors, but west-coaster Beats... Wally bears a striking physical similarity to George Carlin.

Unlike Burroughs, Wally never shot anybody. Unlike Burroughs Wally was indeed a red diaper kid (commie lawyers). Unlike Burroughs he found a tolerant home in the Crafts and Trades of heavy construction and the several unions...it paid the bills, brought great secret places up close, and was a sort of escape from the evident singularities (flaws, fissures) of the American Imperium bent on self-destruction as it progressed to fascism...

Wally writes for the drawer. I am delighted y'all think as you have said about this near real (and pretty accurate) character. Thanks.

..................

But to topic>

Wally expects the Japanese @ Fukushima will take advantage of the CV19 as distraction and excuse and dump all the coruscating pollution (radio-actively contaminated water and mud) straight into the Pacific.

Wally expects the Empire to pass laws attempting to forbid encryption altogether. As that's not possible, since encryption is always possible, this will enable the persecution, er, "prosecution" or anybody...


Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 9:28 utc | 274

Laguerre, it is normal that ppl your age tend to be stubborn (but so I am) and hold to hardly realistic dreams as part of the drowning into nostalgia. On top of that, I suspect you are a baby-boomer, i.e. part of the herd I call the "Titanic generation". Ppl whose denial drive their life force.
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/03/thalys-passenger-numbers-higher-on-amsterdam-routes/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gare_du_Nord
If the EU is not responsible for health and thus can cover its slow reaction behind this excuse, what about transports? You probably know that you can jump directly from the airport to intl trains in many EU countries. How have they been dealing with screening, if any? transparency anyone? raw facts? What we have been told is that "plane crews were asked to report sick passengers"... as if we did not know since early February at least that many ppl did not display symptoms. Just ask around you ppl who have been travelling to Asia recently and tell me if that existed...and why would that staff be exposed and not compensated?

Posted by: Mina | Mar 18 2020 9:41 utc | 275

Laguerre, in my opinion your attack on Varoufakis shows that you do have personal interests in the EU, i.e. funding or a salary, either to you or a relative.
https://euroleaks.diem25.org/explainers/

Posted by: Mina | Mar 18 2020 9:50 utc | 276

274 Auggr.

I've been asking myself the same questions,and I wonder if it has to do with fluorin the drinking water,or some other product that alla americans take,because their passiveness is very noticeable.

Wally,interesting that some days ago,when people started making a cow from a mice on your behalf,I was immediately thinking about the Walter character from the Big lebowski.
I like very much your comments,though sometimes it is to incrowdy-cryptic to me,bur I thought this third person use,was only recent.I remember a lot of your posts did not show it.

Posted by: willie | Mar 18 2020 12:29 utc | 277

Mina,
i think your impression of Laguerre is correct.I've noticed that he is always taking sides with Brussels,painting any opposition to EU as extreme right or fascist.This contrasts with a lot of his other positions and often insightful comments,noteably on the middle-east.

So,yes,I think laguerre is working for the million euro-founded anti conspirationnal comment buro,;that was installed by Brussels and Strasbourg two years ago,but he is only in it for the money.(Hope he is not loosing his job,because of my comment).

Posted by: willie | Mar 18 2020 12:34 utc | 278

Hi barflies. Here in the UK panic buying is rampant and hand sanitizer unavailable. It an be made by adding about 1/8 (12 percent) of Dettol (disinfectant) to liquid soap (cheap shampoo or bath foam).
Izal type toilet paper should be scuffled between both hands using the thumb and fingers to soften it. Then it just a
PS. Please don't abuse one another, sarcasm, wit and irony is so much better and funny.
Well done B and contributors for your insights.
Best of luck to you and yours.

Posted by: Old Engineer | Mar 18 2020 13:53 utc | 279

Posted by: augrr | Mar 18 2020 8:06 utc | 274

I find it astounding that a nation that has a large proportion of educated citizens capable of critical thought has been somehow cowed into accepting the most ridiculous explanations of events that were key in shaping its history.

Yes, I was born and raised here, and I have no elaborated theory about it, but it's a good question, and I would wager several things had a lot to do with it:

1.) Our colonial origins, that colonial ("pioneering") mindset has never left us.

2.) Always lots of newcomers who do not understand the political system and are governed more-or-less tribally. This continues today. (Not dissing immigrants, but they make it easy to divide-and-rule.)

3.) The two oceans on either side which have protected us from retribution, and the two weak neighbors next door.

4.) The deceptive political class, which has always spouted democratic babble while ruling by deceit and violence when necessary (with occasional exceptions allowed).

I have had lots of education, but I was well into my 40s before I began to really understand how politics works here, and am still learning.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 18 2020 13:59 utc | 280

Yeah, send everyone $5000 in case they run out of toilet paper.

Oh wait, you cannot wipe with bank card?

Posted by: emes | Mar 18 2020 14:03 utc | 281

willie | Mar 18 2020 12:29 utc | 278

Yes, I wonder WTFIW (what the phuch iz rong) with these people? So do my few pals around here. The "theory" some have is that the people are "retarded" or "inbred"... Wally would take a Marxist view, and say that man is a product of his environment, and look for causation...starting with diet, social stimulus, pollution (especially lead)...you know, science...but my pals are ignorant of Marx, pity.

There's a dark but funny Peter Sellers routine in "Doctor Strangelove" about fluoride, water...and "commies" When (if) you watch it, recall that in real life Sterling Hayden was a OSS officer running guns to Tito across the Adriatic under Luftwaffe guns under a full moon, for months, and he was also a communist, at least he was then and until our pogrom against the commies.

see> on youtube "Dr. Strangelove - Water Fluoridation"

We drink de-ionized water that we create here at the LZ in Anoxia, USA.

The neighbors drink contaminated well water with diesel, sewage, and plenty of Round-up...but it's chlorinated, so they don't get sick, they only get poisoned. Very capitalist remedy, delay and pass cost to future, weaken, exploit, discard, move on, this is progress!

"Wally" Yes, it is recent - although I have written stories and created characters and used the third person. It's fun. Sometimes people listen better if you "tell it slant". Wally is an honest representation and sticks to true as best, so to say. It's perhaps a family trait, 7 generations of Hicksite Quakers intermarrying through the westering liquidation of the native. John Brown was a hero...we smuggled slaves to Canada. Not insane, but nutty, and stubborn.

as Dickinson wrote>

Tell all the truth but tell it slant —
Success in Circuit lies
Too bright for our infirm Delight
The Truth's superb surprise
As Lightning to the Children eased
With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind —

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 14:14 utc | 282

The link to the Forbes article by S at comment 168 was interesting. Perhaps rather optimistic in saying that the virus seems seasonal and concentrated between parallels 30 N and 50 N, preferring cold weather. Quite a large part of the human race lives between these parallels. 50 parallel runs through North Africa and the Persian Gulf, 30 through northern France, central Germany and northern China. The idea that it will peak over the next eight weeks and gradually decline will mean, if true, that it will start to decline around May 7. We'll see.
The Southern Hemisphere is entering its cold season, so we will see what happens there.

Posted by: Waldorf | Mar 18 2020 16:40 utc | 283

Actually the parallels are the other way around. 50 runs through northern France, 30 North Africa.

Posted by: Waldorf | Mar 18 2020 16:42 utc | 284

Walter - Hayden seems to have been pretty apolitical but admired Tito. Unlike the CIA which was to some degree its continuation, leftists were recruited by the OSS but often became targets postwar. Under pressure Hayden named names to the HUAC, and spent the rest of his life remorseful about it.

Posted by: Waldorf | Mar 18 2020 16:53 utc | 285

Walter | Mar 18 2020 14:14 utc | 283
Thanks for bringing Dickens to the bar, indeed:

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen, nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery" [Micawber's recipe for happiness.]

As a basis for economic understanding, it is surely helpful and in the best interests of any community. It also can act as an anchor- point for evaluating history. Granted there is a learning curve and careful adjustments can smooth the way.

It also suggests that plunderful Capitalism is a cover for someone's invisible hand. All accumulation of great wealth includes plunderful magic tricks.

As for COVID19, biology has its invisible hands working magic tricks. Persons who do not know better should not be allowed to play with fire outside of an approved fireplace. Like children, they need education or forcible restraint. Communities are not fireplaces.

Capitalist education has led us into trouble. Education is supposed to "lead out" of trouble, not in [e+ducere]. Communities have become biology labs for mis-educated adults.

That's how we got here.

Posted by: chu teh | Mar 18 2020 17:45 utc | 286

Waldorf | Mar 18 2020 16:53 utc | 286 Hayden. Yes. I agree, Hayden did as you say...his autobio admits it in shame...but the pogroms were intense, many fine people surrendered their honor...and the destruction of the genuine left in US that was wrought by the pogroms against the left secured the pathway to fascism...

chu teh | Mar 18 2020 17:45 utc | 287 (Dickinson) I am glad to have pleased. Thanks! (and I agree)

In America outside of hard science "education" is a nearly meaningless term, I am very sorry to observe. The level of incompetence is astonishing. We have licensed pharmacists who have never taken a chemistry class, as it's not required for a pharmacist to know any chemistry whatsoever. When the XYL was teaching undergrad English she (and I) had to grade papers that were below the level of the 8th grade. And we had to pass these with "C"... A friend, teaching mathematics at a State "University" was forced to pass incompetent students, who went on to become licensed merchant marine officers...and they were unable to do shear or stability calculations.

All part of the glacis...pity.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 18:03 utc | 287

Siotu | Mar 18 2020 17:49 utc | 288 The German Reich Number Three thought of it, they might claim...."Centralising the currency supply and attempting to control the economy, indeed society itself, using the government to monopolise authority and coercive power wasn't such a good idea after all. Who'd have thought it?"

Reich 4 is merely a rhyme? Well, if shoe fits...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 18:08 utc | 288

@augrr #274
Different people have different theories: here's mine.
The American problem is freedom of the press.
Every other nation out there has some form of restriction on the press. The UK, for example, limits public TV to the BBC. There are private services, but the BBC rules supreme.
The same is true, AFAIK, throughout Europe, Asia and the rest of the world.
In America - the only public TV is PBS, and it is extremely unpopular.
The free channels are dominated by private companies, and have furthermore split up the audience into ever more polarized sub segments.
This isn't just Fox vs. CNN; outside of a few big shows, people don't watch the same thing anymore.
Social media is the same, ditto radio.
Given the extreme division of information sources - every single American is getting cognitive dissonance, every day. The channels and people they watch (and by default, trust) are constantly telling them things which both confirm the viewer's bias and are visibly discordant with what both other people think/say and what they see happening in fact.
The net result is a building distrust of anything and everything.
We see the same here on MoA: people are constantly dragging their own agendas here and trying to force them on other MoA readers despite b's attempts to provide objective information.
I'm not saying the national TV setups in the rest of the world are automatically better, but it seems without question that forcing everyone to at least start with the same set of data - avoids more of this growing level of distrust.
Of course, many will say it is the government(s) which are doing this. Probably also true, but the problem is still the same: any single act by the US government is viewed literally 100% diametrically opposite by different large groups of people.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 18 2020 19:01 utc | 289

Walter - I have sometimes wondered if Hayden's portrayal of General Ripper in Dr Strangelove was a kind of revenge on the HUAC, as Ripper is maniacally anti-Communist to the point where he destroys the world. Hayden hardly blinked while playing Ripper, especially during his tirades, conveying a character totally and utterly nuts.

Posted by: Waldorf | Mar 18 2020 20:04 utc | 290

A very informative summary of what is know and possible in the field of creating coronaviruses. Check it out.

Coronavirus Special Report -- J.C. on a bike

A blog that is related to the above,

Blog Article

The bike rider in the video is Dr. Jonathan Jay Couey who had been listed on the -"https://neurobio.pitt.edu/faculty/couey.htm". Last WayBack capture is for Feb. 22, 2020. Interesting.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 20:51 utc | 291

Waldorf | Mar 18 2020 20:04 utc | 291 (Hayden). I agree, and had not thought of HUAC as a motivation, but I think you're right. Deep anger, red anger...but for betrayal, as well as humiliation. If you search yt for interviews the tics from combat fatigue are frankly obvious...the combat in the Adriatic made him mad in itself, he went mad, nuts, broke down, and then the freedom that he believed in, the lost lives, the people he killed - all that was traduced by the government...so a double injury and betrayal, one he had to suffer. People with combat fatigue don't usually have much trouble acting nuts. A parody at "The A-Team" tv series...

It shows in the interviews, sudden moves, tics, the hard drinking, the stridency. I never met him, and that's a pity...at least I don't think so. He might have been at a barbecue in Sausalito ...all movie types. But no memory of such a tall guy. He had a tre-kool boat. Like to have seen that. I remember the Big Divorce - and he took the kiddies to Catalina, but kept going to Papeete and stayed a long time. Wally's pop thought it the coolest contempt of court imaginable...and that the kids would benefit far more from the voyage than they would in Los Angeles. Pop was right.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 21:16 utc | 292

Want to get lucky and reduce the symptoms? Head into the wilderness and start eating plants until one of them makes breathing easier. You may find yourself in Southeast Asia standing next to a plant known as Mitragyna Speciosa.

Posted by: Jos | Mar 22 2020 20:21 utc | 293

What did the US govt know in July?

U.S. axed CDC expert job in China months before virus outbreak
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-cdc-exclusiv-idUSKBN21910S

The American disease expert, a medical epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency, left her post in July, according to four sources with knowledge of the issue. The first cases of the new coronavirus may have emerged as early as November, and as cases exploded, the Trump administration in February chastised China for censoring information about the outbreak and keeping U.S. experts from entering the country to help.

“It was heartbreaking to watch,” said Bao-Ping Zhu, a Chinese American who served in that role, which was funded by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, between 2007 and 2011. “If someone had been there, public health officials and governments across the world could have moved much faster.”


Posted by: occupatio | Mar 22 2020 23:39 utc | 294

@102

Thoroughly agree.

The capatilist economy has been nothing more than a house of cards for decades, propped up by imaginary finances. We are now seeing that fall apart, now realizing that imaginary money is in no way real.

But what is the solution? Imagine more money! The USA government (and most of the others) is now going into much greater debt. To who?

Where does this monetery liquidity come from?

From banks. Who themselves nowhere near have that kind of assets to back up there loans. From the BIS. All this 'liquidity' is simply a fantasy.

It's a joke, an imaginary reality.

Sooner or later it will all come to roost. Meanwhile the filthy rich that has all been laughing at us will bunker down, and keep laughing while the rest of us that have been living in a false reality slowly figure out how we have been tricked, and die.

Seriously, those that rely on finding food from the local supermarket, where will you go when the system fails?

Posted by: Ant. | Mar 23 2020 16:21 utc | 295

Please - send me free money - the more the better

Posted by: Howard | Mar 27 2020 17:18 utc | 296

the entirely post es 100% woring today is march 31 and we have millions of positives :(

Posted by: Fernando Santillan | Mar 31 2020 21:56 utc | 297

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