Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 29, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-25

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

  • Mar 25 - Netanyahoo's Corona Coup
    Opposition leader Gantz sold out to Netanyahoo presumably in exchange for a promise that Netanyahoo would leave in 18 month. No one believes that he will keep that promise. Gantz' move has blown up his Blue and White coalition. His excuse is the corona crisis which, he says, requires unity. Israel will have quite a problem with the disease. The ultra-orthodox Haredi do not follow the stay at home orders. The Zionist do not care about Palestinians and forget that the disease will not differentiate. The Health Ministry is held by a corrupt Haredi who lacks the relevant qualifications.

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on March 29, 2020 at 14:37 UTC | Permalink

« previous page | next page »

@vk | Mar 30 2020 16:39 utc | 197

In these cases, you can do two things: interview people from NY and/or observe the circumstancial evidence.

Since I bet you're Norwegian, I guess you can't interview people from NY. So you'll have to do with circumstancial evidence.

And the circumstancial evidence points to the collapse of the American healthcare system, at least in NYC.

You are correct I can't go there to check for myself, so I watched someone who did and to me he seemed quite trustworthy, asking many sensible questions. So that is the circumstantial evidence in this case, the hospital where the apocalypse is supposedly happening according to the NYT seems rather quiet and normal. I don't see any evidence in this particular case that the american healthcare system is collapsing, quite the opposite, there were lots of vacant ambulances and no apocalypse in sight, so it was curious to say the least.

I am not saying the virus is harmless, or the american healthcare system isn't collapsing (it is), but there seems to be some people high up creating as much media panic as possible in this case and that makes me suspicious. We had our own 'event' here 22/7 2011 and there were simulations going on there as well.

What Trump says is totally irrelevant to this video.

PS. Sorry about any language mistakes.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 30 2020 17:00 utc | 201

Posted by: karafspolo | Mar 30 2020 17:07 utc | 202

@ Nathan Mulcahy | Mar 30 2020 2:21 utc | 127

Ioannidis's and those other two Stanford professors' "Its just the Flu" arguments were taken down pretty effectively I thought by evidence and logic in a YT last week
(starts at minute 19:00) by Chris Martenson.

Given that Santa Clara County (home to Stanford U) is now experiencing an steeply accelerating rate of Covid infections and covid deaths right now
County covid dashboard , I wonder if those Stanford profs are now considering walking back their editorial positions?

Posted by: gm | Mar 30 2020 17:11 utc | 203

dennis @ 165

the numbers here in central Italy are relatively low. we're under shutdown, but everything's pretty mellow...cabin fever's on the rise.

oh yeah, a 101 year old man with covid-19 was recently discharged from the hospital in Rimini without any complications.

Posted by: john | Mar 30 2020 17:11 utc | 204

@ Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 30 2020 17:00 utc | 202

Sure, it doesn't mean the COVID-19 is the bane of humanity, but it indicates the economic damage it can cause is large enough to impel a pro-laissez-faire POTUS to consider at least some degree of extended containment. That means it can cause an economic damage large enough that it would cause a loss greater than if a pure laissez-faire philosophy was adopted.

For people who still don't know here, laissez-faire is, in a coloquial level, the French name for classical liberalism applied to "sociology" during the 18th-19th Centuries. It can be reduced by the motto "make it live, let it die". The idea behind that motto was that human procreation should be stimulated by the State, because more people means more (and cheaper) labor power - so women should be induced to procreate the most possible (and also many policies to reduce infant mortality) -, but, after the human is born and grown to adulthood, no stimulus should be made to keep it alive: it should work to the death, on whatever conditions the capitalist class thought better (i.e. the most profitable). So, birth is controlled, but death is free.

The laissez-faire ideology was immortalized in our times by French sociologist Michel Foucault, who encoded the terms "biopolitics" (i.e. forced superpopulation in order to feed the industrial revolutions) and "necropolitics" (i.e. capitalist-controlled deaths of populations, i.e. "freedom of death") in the post-war period.

Posted by: vk | Mar 30 2020 17:25 utc | 205

I came here this morning to give some of my own reflections, this being an open thread.

Most know I am an Orthodox Christian, and such are rather peculiar beings - we are, I
think, both in and out of the world, and a pretty diverse lot when you come right down
to it. That's because we chafe a bit under authoritarian rule - well, I chafe quite a
lot, and you only have to look at Putin to see that he's cut from the same cloth.

I'm an icon painter, so these remarks will be made from that perspective. The subject
of Dylan's song about the assassination of President Kennedy has been under discussion
here, and I would like to add to that some thoughts from my own perspective. First it
came to me that the terrible occurrence of a Presidential assassination is drifting
towards the edge of living memory. Which links it to those affected by this virus,
mainly the elderly, either in their reaction to it or in the restrictions that have
clamped down affecting them most particularly.

I am in my eightieth year. I remember that time. I can call
up an actual image from my own memory that relates to it. Many now alive cannot. So,
that icon is receding in living memory as I type. Time passes.

There is another icon that is more definitive even than that one. We recently had the
commemoration of it, I think the 75th anniversary. It is the icon of war. Dresden; its
firebombing catastrophe. I don't think there have been any songs written about it; it
was too terrible for that. The priest of my church, who died some time ago, told us,
his parishioners, about being there as a youth. And there is a feast, old calendar,
for that very time. That iconic time. So, I have that icon (or image) second hand.

These two icons are icons of terrible crime. And this virus we are currently dealing
with encompasses both, the living memory and the memory second hand.

Now, on a personal note, my own dear little church, back in the day,
was about to enter Lent on Forgiveness Sunday,and it was the day before my youngest
daughter was born. I was new to the church at that time, and immersed in the pageantry of
that. Long story short, the Dresden feast of the presentation of the infant Christ in the temple,
comes at the end of forty days in which his mother, Mary, has been absent from the community,
so her 'purification' is taking place in the temple; that's what the 'Dresden'feast is about.
Accordingly, in my enthusiasm for my 'new' church, I insisted on doing the same, and stayed
away from church my forty days, which was the length of Lent at that time. (I hasten to say
I was not required to do so, and our priest said I needn't. I just did.) I didn't return
until Easter, with my wee baby girl.

We are all, all over the world, experiencing a kind of forced absence from community. I
just hope for everyone that after this worldly 'lenten period' there will be a worldly
'pascha' or 'passover' like no other at the end of it! Not an 'end of times' event, but a
time we can all rejoice in.

Everyone stay safe and well!

Posted by: juliania | Mar 30 2020 17:28 utc | 206

An interesting discussion Galloway/Campbell

And some statements of WHO today:
World Health Organization officials on Monday said they still recommend not to wear face masks unless you are sick with Covid-19 or caring for someone who is sick.

"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan, WHO executive director of health emergencies program, said during a media briefing in Geneva on Monday.

=> This is opposite to what the South Korean Dr says in a video they ve put on their Youtube channel. But he also says total lockdown is useless and what is most important is to avoid confined places and crowds. The main reason why WHO says that is obviously that there cannot be masks for everyone, i.e. if the medical staff need them, other people cannot have them.

And in another statement: Coronavirus will not go away by itself and rather it needs to be pushed down using public health care measures, said Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the World Health Organization health emergencies program.Everyone has talked about flatting the curve, Ryan said, but “the question is how do you go down? And going down, isn’t just about a lockdown and let go. To get down from the numbers, not just stabilize, requires a re-doubling of public health efforts, to push down. It won't go down by itself, it will be pushed down.” He fails short to say that this means massive investment in PUBLIC health by the states.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 30 2020 17:34 utc | 207


The difference between Germany and Italy in coding the cause of death was also mentioned at TruNews about a week ago. While I am not a Christian, I find that TruNews does document actual news well.

The problem with the German approach is that the virus infects heart muscle resulting in the heart attack example you described.

Posted by: Krollchem | Mar 30 2020 17:36 utc | 208

And from the same cnn live thread, here is how Germany manages to have low numbers:
Germany is currently treating about 7,000 Covid-19 patients in hospitals, a spokesperson for the German Hospital Federation told CNN Monday.

Of these patients, 1,500 are in intensive care units and roughly 1,100 patients in the ICU units require ventilation.

.... while France and Italy admit people to hospitals once they need intensive care...

Posted by: Mina | Mar 30 2020 17:36 utc | 209

@vk | Mar 30 2020 17:25 utc | 206
I don't know why you reply to me since you don't touch the questions I raise but instead talk about Trump.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 30 2020 17:42 utc | 210

@ Realist 201

Yes, doubt abounds and we will know in 82 years, when and if. In the meanwhile the blaming is rife.
Marine Le Pen Says It’s Reasonable to Question If COVID-19 Was 'Lab-Produced'

Citing the example of an artificial, lab-developed virus, the National Rally leader has asserted that it makes sense to doubt any statements about the place of origin of COVID-19.[.]
“People’s question about if its origins are natural or whether it is lab-produced is a reasonable one”, Le Pen told the radio station France Info.
“In history - and I know this because I do my best to be educated - there were a few diseases, which originated in laboratories, for instance, myxomatosis”, the politician remarked.

Whatever, It's here and catastrophic. What is the cost of the global lockdown? In 6-12 months, we will begin the counting In the 100s of Trillions.
Why in the Trillions you muse? Hey, in 2008, Goldman Sachs said we would need $100 Trillion to rescue the 2007-2008 financial crisis. The COVID-19 is several magnitudes on the debt pile that will not be serviced by corporate, individual, municipal, or state.

Federal printing will not save the day.
U.S. stimulus package is biggest ever, but may not be big enough

Last Friday, Capital One got a quietly (now, not-so-secret) Bail out

it's only related to the Oil going negative. And their Credit Card portfolio? At this hr West Texas Index is painted red, @ $20.16

[.]At the core of the issue were plunging oil prices, which ended up having a margin call effect on the bank's swaps exposure; and since Capital One’s waiver lasts until Sept. 30, if energy prices remain low or the bank’s exposure remains above the threshold, it will register as a swap participant or make business adjustments, the CFTC said on Friday.

And here is why anyone who currently has a deposit account at CapitalOne may consider quietly moving the money elsewhere: according to Reuters, the CFTC designation entails a number of complex and costly reporting and compliance obligations, which the CFTC spokesman said could hurt the institution’s ability to keep lending.

Anything .govs label as "Temporary" ends up being "Permanent" -
and, the question for this week will be; Who else is on tap?

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 30 2020 17:45 utc | 211

Good Day to the Troll Brigade! And a Better Day to everyone else!

Today we have this nice short item comparing the condition of the common Chinese with that of its American counterpart. Here's the most important stat:

"According to Lv, US households are much more financially vulnerable to the pandemic than Chinese families, as the majority of American people do not save money in the banks, and they often borrow from their credit cards and have other short-term debts.

"The personal saving rate in the US was merely 7.9 percent in January, while Chinese people have a saving rate of 45 percent, the highest in the world, according to Zhou Xiaochuan, former governor of the central bank."

The upshot is China's government doesn't need to provide a massive bailout package to its people, while the Outlaw US Empire's federal government will need to provide at least one, perhaps two, more massive injections to its citizens, which will likely equal the amount of the first where at least 75% of the total was wasted on cronies.

That massive misallocation of funds leads us to the newest item by Alastair Crooke. He takes his time getting to the main thrust of the piece:

"Meanwhile the U.S. Congress has passed a $2 trillion bill to counter the effects of Covid-19. It was well received for a while in the U.S. markets, before they fell again. The bill may help keep a part of the big business status quo alive, for now, but the bottom line is that these spending bills – as Jim Rickards notes – 'provide spending but they do not provide stimulus'. And all that spending – like that of the Fed – essentially will be helicopter money: i.e. monetised debt. [Links at original]

"The essential dilemma is that the Central Bankers’ Holy Grail – stimulus – depends on consumers, who constitute 70% of the U.S. economy; and on whether they decide consume – and to what extent. And that will depend upon their psychology in the post-Covid-19 era, and not on what the Fed does, or does not, do now.

"If consumers get used – during lockdown – to doing without; to economising; they may well decide that increased savings and debt reduction, are the best ways to prepare for straitened times. 83% of U.S. businesses are small or medium sized companies. Some may survive and resume work, but others will not re-open after the lockdown. It will be a different atmosphere: a different economic era."

Many "consumers" will likely be in bad shape since as noted above they had next to nothing ready for this crisis or any other, and their psychology will very likely change as a result to a self-imposed austerity, meaning a massive whack to their discretionary spending at restaurants, theaters, and other non-essential businesses--those many businesses noted above. Then we must add the social contract issue as it directly relates to the "normalcy" of what stands for healthcare within the Outlaw US Empire--whose utter inadequacy was completely exposed to the point where only the massively ignorant can say it's functional.

The Troll community pushes its mantra that Resistance is Futile and the status quo ante will continue. East Asia's going back to business as its seemingly draconian measures proved to be right and proper. Crooke points out just how problematic any sort of similar imposition is for the Empire--it's economy is so fragile it can't stay closed down past Easter. China's ordeal lasted 3 full months; the Outlaw US Empire has almost completed its first month and in no way will be able to match China's success at virus suppression such that its overall infection and recovery cycle will be much longer, perhaps 6-8 months in total. My own guess is Labor Day. For a financialized economy whose cycles are quarterly--every 3 months--that in fact remains mired in the 2007-9 crisis, it just might be forced to go back to basic capitalism:

"So, what created this mess? The financial system has too much debt, too much credit and too much leverage. Oligarchs now hold taxpayers hostage and demand trillions in bailouts that no country can afford.

"This is not capitalism. Capitalism is simple. You let winners win. You let losers lose. Regulate the whole show to the minimum degree realistically necessary to protect workers, consumers and citizens. These simple rules have been forgotten. Instead, we have an adulterated form of capitalism that, as far as finance is concerned, has no losers.

"You've bought some stupid assets or made some stupid investments? Don't worry, central banks will bail you out. The economy is looking weak? Don't worry, central banks will roll those printing presses. Your bank, airline or shale oil company is over-leveraged, badly run and insolvent? Don't worry, your friend the President, Prime Minister, Central Banker, Exchequer or Treasury Secretary is bound to have a solution.

"Capitalism without bankruptcy is like Catholicism without God. Right now, we do not need bailouts — fewer bankruptcies will occur in the future if we require bonus claw-backs and make share buybacks illegal. It’s time to let capitalism be capitalism." [My Emphasis]

Contrary to BigLie Media Mythos, the citizenry does have a memory, and it's entirely possible it will take the matter of changing the system into its own hands, which as Crooke points-out is certainly a huge consideration for TrumpCo. The situation's fluid and we see the Duopoly stumbling, then falling down and rising again like a drunk. The effort to demonize China for the Empire's owngoals is failing and the citizenry's reading despite efforts to the contrary promoting video games. The Narrative's reeling; and in reality, the crisis has just begun.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 30 2020 17:46 utc | 212

Thoughts on what comes after Covid-19;

Start with a “conclusion”. That the situation that most resembles where ours is going at the moment, - is the collapse of the USSR in Yeltsin’s time. There the whole system had fallen to pieces, leaving the majority of Russians without capital and without any security or future. The country was being looted principally by eight Oligarchs, and the Russian Mafia was doing the rest. The Nomenklatura kept most of the paying options for themselves. Violence and theft were commonplace. Locally, some tried to keep going but lacked the means to do much more than repair what already existed. (Without capital first - you can’t get capital catch 22bis)

The breakdown was fast. A couple of months or so. It left the US as the “winner” in a competition to foist their own system on an unbalanced world. (Capitalism,. There was at the time also the thought that “competitive, rapacious” capitalism would wither away without it’s rival to strive against = peace on the planet!)

The reasons for the collapse are interesting but in a large part irrelevant here, except that it was mainly a financial collapse. Bought about by “living beyond their means”, massive overspending on the armed forces and a certain incompetence in planning for the future.

What do we see at the moment? Financial collapse looming, the social fabric being shredded, massive debts, aaaannnd, the Oligarchs (billionaires) taking over. With the incredible bailouts now being provided by the Fed. What do you think happens? Sharing? Investing in new plants and industries? Paying suppliers? So I have a bridge built by the tooth fairy, to sell to you. The big Corporations, once they got their hands on the bailouts, have INCREASED their stock buybacks.; Supermarkets have stopped paying suppliers. (Boeing refused to give equity to the Government). This is deliberate concentration of power in the hands of fewer and fewer people. The future “oligarchic” class. (Aside; Leading members of which, the termites, may have already gone underground).

The worry of the termites is how to get the pitchforks out of the hands of the serfs before transforming them into slaves. Separate them?;OK. Police them and close surveillance?:OK. Eliminate their ability to have any means of commerce/communication that is independent of control?OK. Identify people by type (CUC- completely under control –> DTO-Drone this one), facial recognition, or "chip"* them (B. Gates) etc. to ....(please continue naming the present restrictions on your own - there are lots).
. . . .
I should continue with items on the “longevity” of debt, The value of “title”, even if usurped, over a longer time frame etc. but I think you may be getting the picture.

*Acronym substitute for RFID chips = APE chips. "Accessing Privacy Electronically"

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 30 2020 17:47 utc | 213

DW News (Germany) is praising South Korea's handling of the pandemic without enforcing extreme lock downs. SK's success in limiting the spread is due to several factors...
1. Ready availability of testing and lots of tests being performed.
2. People who test +ve are interrogated to find candidates for testing.
3. sends alerts to every mobile phone in SK to warn citizens about the most recent C-v hot spot to avoid. There are apps with maps and the govt has persuaded citizens to sign up for tracking to expedite establishing trails of infection. This info is updated constantly.
4. Unlike the 'Democratic' but creatively disorganised & incompetent West, everyone in SK has masks and wears them when outdoors.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 30 2020 17:55 utc | 214

Its interesting that karloff and bevin use exactly the same cheap smear tactics on anyone with an opinion different from there's. We have the dishonest bevin smearing as fascist anyone with a different opinion and followed by karloff pathetically smearing as troll, anyone with a different opinion on on economic issues.

Given the similar style, the complete unwillingness to allow difference of opinion, it's likely we are dealing with the same person using 2 different user ids. Which is pretty childish

How fragile his ego must be that he's unable to tolerate any difference of opinion without resorting to such childish smear tactics

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 18:22 utc | 215

I doubt Korean approach should be seen as restricted to a single mode testing/tracking mode. You need a throttling mechanism between different approaches. There is at least one threshold at a constant stream of new infections which does not grow. If at some point the level of infections becomes too high a more strict mode is needed. One can imagine three or more predefined levels like that.

In Belgium we are now in semi-lockdown. The short term horizon is to get past some 'peak'. We should start implementing South Korean methods right away but I would only consider relying on the South Korean approach once the level of new infections is low enough.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 30 2020 18:24 utc | 216

Three elephants in the room our brainless leaders have been ignoring and neglecting in their damage control planning for the future: Climate Change, an aging population and a debt-riddled economy. These are major structural cracks that are ready to give at any time.

We are living in la-la land led by a bunch of dumb ostriches with their heads firmly planted in the ground showing their face only for political interest.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 30 2020 18:25 utc | 217

"pushes its mantra that Resistance is Futile "

The bevin character used to frequently push that argument when trying to silence others too.

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 18:25 utc | 218

All the smug pseudo-intellectual waffle in the world can't hide the fact that "China's debt tops 300% of GDP, now 15% of global total"

The rosy picture you are attempting to paint is, like most of what we've heard from you today, karloff/bevin, simply false

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 18:31 utc | 219

Sputnik provides a timely article about the price of a COVID test in various nations. IMO, ideally everyone must be tested, and only from those results can a reliable dataset be constructed. IMO, it's also clear that producing a reliable dataset isn't at all in the interest of private health providers or their criminal partners in the insurance realm. It ought to be clear by now that proper healthcare for humanity won't ever become possible until the profit motive is removed from the equation. That's a reality that humanity must come to grips with--profiting from the misery of another ought to be punished very severely.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 30 2020 18:49 utc | 220

Good summary of the consequences of COVID-19 infection vs patient health and virus loading. "Potential Effects of Coronaviruses on the Cardiovascular System A Review"

The article also serves as a roadmap for physicians to prioritize which patients to treat when the medical system is failing. A proper diet would prevent most of these metabolic diseases that combined with COVID-19 infection cause serious health issues and death. Also no mention of proper levels of zinc in the diet as a cofactor in the Zinc ionophore for suppressing the viral replicase in vivo.

ps: nuts are high in zinc!

Posted by: krollchem | Mar 30 2020 18:51 utc | 221

krollchem "ps: nuts are high in zinc!"

I guess that means the US neo-cons are largely immune to coronavirus.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 30 2020 18:57 utc | 222

It's good to see that not even a synthetic global pandemic can get vk to shut up for a minute.

Posted by: information_agent | Mar 30 2020 18:58 utc | 223

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 18:31 utc | 220

Get a break mr realist..rice is arriving for usa don't bother too much..high pressure is not good with this virus around.

Posted by: LuBa | Mar 30 2020 19:06 utc | 224

@Realist #220
And how much % is US debt of the world's total?
The debt levels only really matter if they're in another nation's currency - which China's isn't.
The second factor is growth vs. interest rate on debt. China has been growing 6% and up for 35+ years, the US has been growing 2% and down over the same period.
Why does this matter? 300% debt to GDP becomes 150% in 12 years at 6% net growth; the same 300% debt to GDP becomes only 236% over the same period.
Lastly, China's GDP is significantly smaller in absolute terms vs. economic power terms - which is why China PPP economy is on par with the US (which still means the average Chinese is 3/4s poorer than the average Americans).

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 19:11 utc | 225

@karlof1 #113
Yes, but how is it distributed.
I've seen credible studies showing that a huge amount of the assets are owned by a very small number of Chinese...
The one thing we know for sure is that cost of living is a lot lower in China...

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 19:13 utc | 226

Here's a one minute video of a doctor donning his multiple layers of protective gear. Ideally, all healthcare workers ought to be similarly clad, including the janitors that clean it all up.

krollchem @222--

Thanks for the link on cardio vulnerability! I'll be reading that next!

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 30 2020 19:14 utc | 227

A great reality check from Krystal Ball.

Another symptom of Coronavirus: Govern me Daddy...crush?

Snap out of it! I just did.

It's about policy, stupid.

I still think Gavin Newsom was the winning formula to beat Trump, but he's not in it, so I keep going back to the original, authentic Sanders.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 30 2020 19:21 utc | 228

German Infectologist Decimates COVID Doomsday Cult in Open Letter to Merkel
@ antiempire. com
The headline is way more dramatic then the letter,, link to the German original @ the top off article.
Question 4, a short cut and paste-
"The Association of the Scientific Medical Societies of Germany expressly writes in its guidelines: „In addition to the cause of death, a causal chain must be stated, with the corresponding underlying disease in third place on the death certificate. Occasionally, four-linked causal chains must also be stated.“ [6]

At present there is no official information on whether, at least in retrospect, more critical analyses of medical records have been undertaken to determine how many deaths were actually caused by the virus.

My question: Has Germany simply followed this trend of a COVID-19 general suspicion? And: is it intended to continue this categorisation uncritically as in other countries? How, then, is a distinction to be made between genuine corona-related deaths and accidental virus presence at the time of death?"

Posted by: Per/Norway | Mar 30 2020 19:33 utc | 229

@ Posted by: Per/Norway | Mar 30 2020 19:33 utc | 230

So, this armchair doctor wants the German doctors on the field to do an autopsy of every person who dies with with COVID-19?

That's not done even in normal times - let alone in pandemic times.

Posted by: vk | Mar 30 2020 19:37 utc | 230

@Realist #220
And how much % is US debt of the world's total?

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 19:11 utc | 226

You forget that the Dollar is the global reserve currency. It's needed not only for oil transactions. It also is the currency which underwrites virtually all international debt transactions, corporate and sovereign.

The Renminbi is not. In fact hardly anyone wants to be left holding Renminbi in an economic crash.

If China's future prospects are so rosy, if it's current economy is so solid and it's future economic growth is so guaranteed, as some here like to laughably pretend, then how come its currency is about as welcome as a dose of the pox, in the trouser pockets of those who deal in international debt?

International lending is what greases the gears of economic activity in the globalised world. And no one seems to want their gears greased nor their loans denominated in Renminbi

Perhaps they know things that you don't

Posted by: Realistic | Mar 30 2020 19:47 utc | 231

If you do not feed the troll then it will be reassigned to pollute Discus threads or YouTube channels.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 30 2020 19:58 utc | 232

"the USS Theodore Roosevelt diverted from its mission in the Western Pacific in order for its 5,000 crew to disembark in Guam to be quarantined" and "the USS Ronald Reagan aircraft carrier has two sailors who have recently tested positive for Covid-19"

Posted by: JC | Mar 30 2020 19:59 utc | 233

US pulling back to three or four large bases in Iraq where they can set up air defences. Back when the Saudi oil installation was hit there was much about US not having close in air defence. The C-RAM is ideal for the job. I had thought they would be moving these into Iraq along with the patriots and I would guess the short range missile systems based on the stinger missile though I have seen no mention of these in relation to the US bases.
"The prospect of more militia violence is already influencing the U.S. posture in Iraq. More U.S. air defense equipment and personnel have been deployed there, officials said. New air defenses — including C-RAMs and Patriot missile batteries — are expected to be in place in the next week or two."

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 30 2020 20:00 utc | 234

When you can't articulate an argument Mr Gruff, i guess childish name calling looks like a viable option

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 20:03 utc | 235

It's interesting that the three IDs resorting to childish name calling are the same three who all claim to be communist and all like to scream fascist or troll when faced with an opinion different than theirs.

Same political ideology, same tactics, same intolerance for differing opinions, so probably same person behind all 3 IDs.

And there was I thinking that sockpuppeting was not allowed here.

I guess if dishonesty is your general stock in trade you might be inclined to suffer from projection, projecting our own dishonestly onto anyone with a different opinion.

You should stop projecting so much, bevin/karlof/Gruff, not everyone is as dishonest as you so obviously are

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 20:16 utc | 236

Peter AU1 @235

The C-RAM sure does look fancy. I do wonder, however, how effective it would be against MRLS volleys? I've not yet found good information yet about how quickly it can target twenty or more inexpensive rockets like the ones the militias have been using against the occupation force's bases?

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 30 2020 20:17 utc | 237

Live from WHO Headquarters - coronavirus - COVID-19 daily press briefing 30 March 2020

Posted by: JC | Mar 30 2020 20:35 utc | 238

C-RAM is the land version of the naval phalanx system. My guess is US will be trying to set up layered defence at the bases it will hold. Depending on how many of these systems the US possesses, I think they would be placing a number of these at each base.

A difference I can see between the US defending bases in Iraq and Russia defending its bases in Syria is that the Russians have the support of the Syrian population.
For the US in Iraq it is the opposite. Those attacking their bases will have support amongst the population.

107mm rocket max velocity 499 m\s.
I cannot find max engagement range for the gun system. wiki has maximum firing range as 3.5km and maximum effective rang classified.
Engagement or effective range may also depend on size and speed of target.

Looking at those figures, a rocket traveling at 500 m\sec would take 7 seconds to travel 3.5km.
Watching the video, the gun looks as though it would engage each target for several seconds....

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 30 2020 20:50 utc | 239

Peter AU1 @240

I did find some military blog posts in which it was discussed that the C-RAM can engage a target in three seconds. If 100% effective, then I suppose each C-RAM turret should be able to handle almost three incoming rounds? I don't know how authoritative the posters at that blog were, but it seems to me that three seconds is possible, but perhaps optimistic. They may need several of these C-RAM turrets to be able to handle a full salvo.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 30 2020 21:06 utc | 240

COVID-19 clipping:

Marine Le Pen Says It’s Reasonable to Question If COVID-19 Was 'Lab-Produced'

Of course it's reasonable. But, after three months, you have to begin to present some concrete evidence in order to not degenerate to a conspiracy theory.

Trump on China's Alleged Disinformation on COVID-19: 'Every Country Does It'

You heard it from the man himself, anti-communists: no more claiming the moral high ground from now on.

American Companies Ford, GE Healthcare Team Up to Produce 50,000 Ventilators

I hope it doesn't end up like the American space freight service, which gave birth to a State-sanctioned joint-venture with a legal monopoly. Otherwise, prepare to pay overpriced ventilators.

Sweden says no to quarantine – is this the most reckless or the most proportionate Covid-19 response in the West?

Funny how the narrative suddenly changes. Three months ago, Sweden was one of the far-right's favorite targets. It was bashed as a "woke left" paradise, a nation of Arab refugee lovers, LGBT adorers, white haters, communists etc. etc.

Now that Sweden adopted the most laissez-faire policy against the pandemic of all the affected countries, those same far-righters have suddenly gone silent.

Question is: are those far-righters on vacation, or are they simply mouthpieces for the capitalists?

Posted by: vk | Mar 30 2020 21:19 utc | 241

I invite barflies to take a gander at the chart posted on this tweet displaying the Fed's Balance Sheet vs corporate earnings per share. Here's its commentary:

"Does this chart make anyone else sick?

"Fed Balance sheet rockets up
Corporate earnings going straight down

"Further evidence we don't live in a capitalistic society

"Last FOUR decades of EXTREME leverage to conceal declining productivity to enrich a small elite on full display!"

And that gap is rapidly widening.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 30 2020 21:40 utc | 242

@Realistic #232
No, I haven't forgotten.
What you are still ignoring is that China's debt is owed to itself.
It doesn't matter how big the pile gets, just as Japan's debt keeps increasing.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 22:03 utc | 243

"Last FOUR decades of EXTREME leverage to conceal declining productivity to enrich a small elite on full display"

Posted by: karlof1/Bevin/Gruff| Mar 30 2020 21:40 utc | 243

Of course had you had the wit to pay attention during this very thread, where massive corporate borrowing in order to finance share buybacks was explained, you'd already know this.

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 22:08 utc | 244

Circe @133:

"People will suicide over what another 4 years of Trump will do to this world."

No different than what Bernie's endorsed candidate, be (s)he Biden or Cuomo or Her Herself, were to take the White House . . .

Posted by: corvo | Mar 30 2020 22:10 utc | 245

bevin @200:

"but I do know that it cannot have been planned by the ruling class because it is proving to be the biggest threat to them in decades."

Really? What threaty?

Posted by: corvo | Mar 30 2020 22:12 utc | 246

Esper lies to Congress about Russia & China while trying to obfuscate the Outlaw US Empire's unaudited War Department budgets in violation of Constitution and existing law.

The Fed continues to be dishonest about real unemployment, although the figure of 50 million more laid-off workers by June 30 might be close to being accurate. If so, that will make the total number of people out of work wanting a job--the actual definition of labor force--close to 160 million or 1/2 of the Outlaw US Empire's domestic population. A recipe for social unrest.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 30 2020 22:14 utc | 247

Today's CCD/DSU number. quick recap can be seen in post #64
IMGUR CCD/DSU for March 30, 2020
I've added #tests per confirmed and #tests per reported nCOV death to give an idea. You can see from this that Italy's testing is literally 10x less than South Korea's...and New York's is less than Italy's.
New York's DSU/CCD ratio went from 0.62 on 3/26 to 1.22 on 3/30.
California's DSU/CCD was unchanged in the same period.
Italy's went from 6.76 on 3/26 to 7.6 on 3/30.
Germany went from 0.38 to 0.59.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 22:21 utc | 248

Here is the best site for predicting the consequences of the COVID-19 pandemic on a state-by-state basis.

Here are their predicted deaths in Oregon he considering the four options:
Limited Action 85,000
3 Months of Shelter in Place (worst case)* 64,000
3 Months of Shelter in Place (best case)* 2,000
3 Months of Lockdown** <1000

It appears that this model's death rate is higher than what I calculated at post #142. At some point the exponential curve will become a logistical curve (S shaped) as the percentage infected exceed about 50%. The doubling time on a daily basis can be tracked by dividing 70 (ln2*100) by the daily percentage increase in deaths.

Posted by: krollchem | Mar 30 2020 22:25 utc | 249

Mina #171

Bemildred: my two cents, avoid any sugar, even honey (because bacteries feed on sugar and it seems the thing become bacterial in addition to viral when it goes down). Try to find some eucalyptus oil (alt: cinammon, ravintsara, niaouli) and mass your sternum and lower throat with a few drops several times a day.

Sounds like great advice Mina. I put a couple of drops eucalyptus oil in my nasal spray and use when needed. Also vaporise drops of eucalyptus and niaouli in my house.

If I ever get a nasal oddity I add a couple of drops tea tree to the eucalyptus mix. Works fine.

Sore throat: I go with tea tree oil gargle first but if it persists then I do ONE drop thyme in a desert spoon of edible oil for a gargle and spit out. Thyme is good but never more than a single drop should do.

Stay strong! Good luck! to you and all the barflies.

Posted by:

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 30 2020 22:27 utc | 250

In 4-6 weeks time a large percentage of our nations populations won’t be able to afford food for that day, they will be hungry and steal that food, if none is made available by our govenment free !
What forward planning are our political leaders putting into place for that event ? Posative or negative. As a gage of their true intent I would be very interested !!

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 30 2020 22:27 utc | 251

Circe @229:

Gavin Newsom? Are you serious? Berniebot seeks refuge in yet another empty corporate suit?

Posted by: corvo | Mar 30 2020 22:29 utc | 252

@Realistic #232
No, I haven't forgotten.
What you are still ignoring is that China's debt is owed to itself.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 22:03 utc | 244"


Now that is simply not true. China's external debt is several hundreds of billions of dollars, last time I checked. It's been growing at a high rate year on year for the last decade.

Saying it owes that money to itself is not merely untrue, it's laughably untrue.

Admittedly it has very large foreign reserves probably greater than the external debt but those two figures are not automatically interchangeable or necessarily swappable one for the other, if that's what you are implying

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 22:29 utc | 253

If so, that will make the total number of people out of work wanting a job--the actual definition of labor force--close to 160 million or 1/2 of the Outlaw US Empire's domestic population. A recipe for social unrest.

Posted by: karlof1/Bervin/Gruff | Mar 30 2020 22:14 utc | 248

Yes and as has been explained to you already, due to the Covid panic the laws are being enacted giving TPTB the power to deal with that as they see fit.

When it was explained you claimed not to see any of it

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 22:35 utc | 254

bevin #200

I have no idea where the pandemic came from but I do know that it cannot have been planned by the ruling class because it is proving to be the biggest threat to them in decades.

Thanks bevin but in what way is the virus a threat to the USA ruling class?
They already have their isolation behind their residential walls and inside their bunkers.
If they had early warning they would have self isolated from the beginning.
They have possession of the militarised social police mechanism and its national guard is mobilised.
They have control over the bank vaults with their hoard of metals and monies.
They might lose a few million serfs who some refer to a useless eaters, that leaves plenty needy people.
They have control over media that will continue to keep the people's thoughts on the correct path.
They have a two centuries old record of machine gunning unruly mobs.
They have control over the internet and the communications systems.
They are expert in training people's thinking process.

What, me worry? (Alfred E. Neuman)

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 30 2020 22:40 utc | 255

The problem in China,” he writes, ”is not the stock of foreign debt but the commitment to a growth model that requires an unsustainable rise in debt simply to keep the engine running.”

There's that word again "unsustainable"

No doubt it'll be labelled fascist propaganda by comrade karlof/bevin

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 22:42 utc | 256

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 22:29 utc | 254

No, they're right: most of China's debt is internal (i.e. in Renminbi). Last time I checked, 70% of all its debt was internal, so it can survive a financial system collapse.

This "financial collapse" theory is old: it arose during the 1990s, after the "middle class uprising" theory went out of fashion in the West. The financial collapse theory basically relied on some sinologists claims that China has a gigantic shadow banking system. The only evidence for that claim lied in the fact that China is a socialist country - therefore, said the western experts, it must have a huge shadow banking system. After all, the USSR (apparently) had it - so why not China?

Another preconception behind China's financial collapse theory was the fact that western experts of the 1990s didn't believe any country could grow so much without a correspondent debt growth (which wasn't China's case at the time). Therefore, a huge shadow banking system should exist.

I still remember the wild estimations on the size of China's shadow banking system by western sinologists. They still amuse me to this day.

The failure in their theory lied in the fact that China already was the industrial superpower. The industrial superpower has one privilege: it can finance the debt of the other nations while automatically stimulating its own industry. Since the USA was (still is) the financial superpower, it was the preferred target for China, since it can indebt infinitely and indefinitely, so it bought Treasure bonds (which are indefaultable, as the USD is the universal fiat currency) which, indirectly, financed the Chinese industry for the simple fact that the USA had to import most of what it consumed. And in which place most of the consumable stuff is produced? You guessed it right, the industrial superpower: China.

So, in reality, it was the USA that had a growing debt, not China. China was fuelling its industry with American debt. The Americans didn't care because they issue the universal fiat currency, so they can bet infinite debt for an indefinite amount of time.

That is, until 2008 happened, and Wall Street was on its knees.

It's ironic, really. Western experts wasted 15 years calling China's imminent financial collapse, when in fact they were looking themselves at the mirror: it was the West that collapsed, not China.

Posted by: vk | Mar 30 2020 22:52 utc | 257

Thanks bevin but in what way is the virus a threat to the USA ruling class?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 30 2020 22:40 utc | 256


He's calling it a threat because he's driven purely by ideology and can't see events in real-time, as they happen, for what they are.

Hence anyone looking at the coronavirus with a sceptical eye is a "fascist", just like anyone back around 2015, clearly seeing ISIS as a very obvious US/Anglo-Zio construct was, according to comrade Karlof/Bevin, a "racist/defeatist/anti-Semitic/conspiracy theorist".

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 22:58 utc | 258

Right now I predict the elite’s will be playing ‘tough’ but in reality ! ———
The elite have backed themselves into a corner and are shitting themselves ! Along with there white supremacy thugs !
I’m no historian but I know what happenend in the Russian revolution! No bread, end of govenment!
End of story

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 30 2020 23:00 utc | 259

Just an historical note by the portuguese head of the National Health Institute back 1918, which also doubles as a reminder:

A influenza pneumónica
Nota apresentada pelo prof. Ricardo Jorge ao Conselho Superior de Higiene:
A vaga epidémica que nos princípios de Junho rolou de Hespanha, há que reconhecer que nos tratou com acentuada benignidade. Trazia já no seu séquito os ataques pulmonares, que mais serviram para caracterizá-la, mas não há dúvida que foi o menos maligna possível; branda, de pouca demora, e até de mais fraca difusão que a habitual(...)
Desde Agosto que uma nova vaga se enrola, sem a relativa inocência da primeira.
Tem este jeito sabido a influenza; retorna quando menos se espera, em ondulações sucessivas, e estas reincidências costuma também requintar de gravidade.

------ english translation ------

The pneumonic influenza
Note presented by prof. Ricardo Jorge at the Superior Council for Hygiene:
The epidemic wave that arrived from Spain in early June, we must recognize, treated us with significant benevolence. It did bring its lung complications, more fit for characterization, but there's no doubt it was the least malign possible; soft, short lasting, even of weaker spread than usual(...)
Since August a new wave rolls in, not as innocent as the first one.
She's smart that way; rolls back in when you least expect it, in successive waves, and to these relapses attributes refinements of graveness.

( A Medicina Contemporânea, 29 de Setembro de 1918, p. 308. - cited here)

I find it amusing that the only country in the world that for geographic and epidemiological reasons could call the 1918 flu the "Spanish" flu... didn't. Ricardo Jorge, which was correctly convinced of its virus origin, is also known to have opposed the shutdown of the border with Spain, he was a proponent of "social distancing" as we now call it, alas Spain itself enforced it, probably for the better.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Mar 30 2020 23:15 utc | 260

@Realist #254
China is a net creditor to the tune of a bit under $1.6 trillion.
So absolutely, all debt they owe, they owe to themselves.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 23:45 utc | 261

@Realist #254
I should also note that the US is a net debtor nation - to the tune of $8 trillion or so.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 23:47 utc | 262

Vasco de Gama @261--

Yes, China's experience with reinfection bears very close watching, which at the moment's nil. I imagine at some point they'll take a national medical census to see how many have developed the specific antibody. A preventative regime is being implemented and progress is rapid thanks to earlier efforts.

krollchem @250--

Thanks for those links! In an ideal situation, people having developed antibodies would take the positions of those facing direct public contact and get them out of harm's way. Yet another "free market" failure.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 30 2020 23:52 utc | 263

The holey trinity of sockpuppet comrades should probably look away now

Covid19 yet to impact Europe’s overall mortality
Year-to-date statistics show excess mortality lower than previous years

We didn’t have a global lockdown in 2017.

Obviously, things may change (week 13’s results are due tomorrow), but – as it stands – the 2020 figures are substantially lower than the previous three years.

So, the question is, if we didn’t have a lockdown in 2017, and we didn’t have a lockdown in 2018, and we didn’t have a lockdown in 2019….why do we have a lockdown now?

Posted by: Realist | Mar 31 2020 0:02 utc | 264

@ 207 juliania... thanks! i wish the same and i'm not orthodox christian!!

Posted by: james | Mar 31 2020 0:04 utc | 265


I think the problem with Spanish flue was that is was mutating. People that had developed resistance to one strain would not have resistance to the next strain.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2020 0:09 utc | 266

The Propaganda of Terror and Fear: A Lesson from Recent History
Dr Piers Robinson, Co-Director Organisation for Propaganda Studies

It may be that, as British journalist Peter Hitchens has been warning, the loss of liberty and basic rights will continue indefinitely as governments greedily hold on to their increased powers of control over their citizenry.

Similarly, Italian journalist Stqefania Maurizi has warned about the risks in Italy of state authorities, hostile to open societies and the political left, exploiting Corona in order to increase their control.

An obvious concern here is whether there will be a permanent impact on mass gatherings and protests. James Corbett warns of a permanent state of ‘medical martial law’ and there is certainly the very real possibility of the normalization of government-imposed quarantine and other freedom of movement restrictions.

Margaret Kimberley of the US-based Black Agenda Report warns that Corona may be used as a way of covering up both economic crisis and collapse. She notes that the Federal Reserve ‘recently threw Wall Street a $1.5 trillion lifeline which only kicked the can down the road. The can has been kicked ever since the Great Recession of 2008’. The likely destruction of small businesses might allow for ever greater corporate choke-hold on the economy with more people forced into the corporate workforce.

There is certainly the danger that Corona will be exploited in order to distract from severe economic problems whilst also enabling the pursuit of new economic strategies which worsen rather than mitigate the social inequalities that already tarnish Western countries.

And, of course those actors behind the regime-change wars that flowed from 9/11 may use the Corona Virus to increase pressure on the countries they have been targeting for the last 20 years and those they wish to target in the future.

Already we have seen the regime-change advocate John Bolton blaming China for the Corona Virus whilst the New York Times reported that US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and national security adviser Robert C. O’Brien were ‘arguing that tough action while Iran’s leaders were battling the corona virus ravaging the country could finally push then into direct negotiations’.

ABC news report that, despite the Corona Virus, US and UAE troops have held a major military exercise ‘that saw forces seize a sprawling model Mideast city’. It is also worth nothing here the recent US assassination of Iranian General Solemeni and the on-going proxy battles between US forces and Iranian-backed groups in Iraq. The possibility of Corona being exploited in order to further the regime change wars we have seen over the last 20 years is extremely likely and it would be naïve in the extreme to think otherwise.

Whatever the Corona event may or may not be, the fundamental lesson of the last 20 years is that governments can and do exploit, even manipulate, events in order to pursue political, social, military and economic objectives. Fearful populations are frequently irrational ones, vulnerable and malleable. Now is not the time for deference to authority and reluctance to speak out.

It is time for publics to get informed, think calmly and rationally, and to robustly scrutinize and challenge what their governments are doing. The dangers of failing to do this likely far surpass the immediate threat posed by the Corona Virus.

Posted by: Realist | Mar 31 2020 0:11 utc | 267

Excellent op/ed comparing/contrasting China's versus Outlaw US Empire's response to crisis accentuates my overall argument:

"Human life must trump economics in a pandemic. THIS is why China is succeeding in war on Covid-19 and US is on path to disaster."

"The most fundamental issue was that China started from a real understanding of human rights as they affect the real lives of people – not the artificial constructs of Western, purely formal ‘human rights.’ In a lethal epidemic, the key human right is to stay alive." [My Emphasis]

Certainly, the doubly emphasized issue is The Reality for most people excepting neoliberals in and out of governments where profit's always king and peoples's rights are to be smashed. The indictment of HRW's Roth provides yet another nail in the coffin of his credibility.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 31 2020 0:18 utc | 268

Sf Bay Area update for 30 March:

Alameda county (not including Berkeley)
Positive Cases: 264 +24
Deaths: 7

Cases 19 +3
Deaths Zero

Contra Costa County
187 Cases + 12
Deaths 3 +1

San Francisco County
Positive cases 374 +34
Deaths 6

San Mateo County
Postive cases 309 +32
Deaths 6

Santa Clara County
848 Cases +202
Deaths 28 +3
Public health Dashboard

Sonoma County
Active Cases 52 +12
Hospitalized 15
Recovered 13
Deaths 1
Tests 1551
Public health Dashboard

Solono county
confirmed cases 43 +9
Deaths 0
Active cases 16 +3
total hospitalizations ever 12

Marin County As of 29 March
confirmed cases 93 +24
Deaths 1
persons tested at County site 681
Hospitalizations 13 +3

Santa Cruz County
Total cases 44 +5
deaths +1

Napa County
Active case 14 +4
Deaths 0

Stay at home date is expected to be moved up to May 1. Hospitalizations have doubled statewide. One hospital in San Francisco has a large outbreak among patients and staff. Area health agencies continue to ramp of for a surge in patients. Information is getting a little better and those links will be added as they improve. Some counties refuse to provide more information.

Posted by: dltravers | Mar 31 2020 0:27 utc | 269

Peter AU 1 @267--

Yep, and that's the bugger about all viruses; their mutations can make them more or less virulent. Ideally for any parasite, it become unnoticed by its host and thus shares the same lifespan. Note that one of Hudson's most effective books is titled Killing the Host, where he rightfully describes Neoliberalism as parasitic. It complements J is for Junk Economics.

Of course if you follow the logic of Lynn Margulis's theory of microbe evolution, such mutations and DNA sharing are what created life as we know it and make such organisms resilient in differing environments. If organic compounds are present on any celestial body, life is certainly possible.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 31 2020 0:34 utc | 270

I lifted the following from Pepe Escobar's Facebook. It conjures up images from Soylent Green:

"A friend of mine who works as a health professional in a NYC hospital just presented me with a VERY GRIM picture of what is happening in the hospital she works in.

"The neighborhood the hospital serves is working poor. The typical patient being admitted with symptoms is asthmatic, diabetic. Alcoholics are also disproportionally represented. Like most working poor of NYC, their diet is usually abysmal. The number of patients and the severity of cases are completely different from the typical flu of past years. As opposed to having 8 - 12 patients, she is easily seeing over 20. The work load is pushing all to the breaking point.

"Patients come in the morning, go into ARDS, and are dead that night. Then even more patients are admitted, and go on follow identical trajectories. The age group most affected is 40's and up, with those and their 50's and 60's having a very poor prognosis. Once they start to fail, they go extremely rapidly.

"As a consequence, the MDs are treating the patients even less aggressively, and even seem to be afraid of entering the same space of the patient. None of the innovative protocols, like megadose Vit C, chloroquine and related drugs, used in other nations with success, even in other NYC hospitals, are being used.

"The nurses say that if tested, they would all certainly test positive for the virus. But there is no way the system or the patients can afford not to have them there.

"I asked her if these patients usually got the flu shot, and she affirmed, almost all did, and the asthmatics do as they are especially afraid of the flu. One colleague, a nurse or respiratory therapist, shared with her that it seemed that those most hard hit had received the flu shot.
While I have offered the perspective of dissident MDs who have dealt with this virus, often specialists in infectious disease, providing ample statistical data to support their positions, the severity of this virus will present as differently from nation to nation as it will from pt to pt. It will reflect the state of the medical infrastructure, the willingness of the medical community to adopt novel, innovative approaches, the general health of the local population, the environment, and especially what kind of medical interventions were used prior to infection. For instance, what is known by very few is that before the advent of asthma meds which "manage" the symptoms, asthma was rarely fatal.

"None of this discredits the likelihood this is a manufactured event. In fact, it is entirely in line with research stating that it appears to have originated from a bioweapons lab, the existence of which simply cannot be denied. It also does not validate the authoritarian policy of quarantining the entire population, as opposed to the most vulnerable or actively infected. It does render as acceptable the collateral damage of plunging the entire economy into depression, jeopardizing the ability of the entire population to survive. It does not invalidate the hypothesis that the virus is being used to promote profitable Pharma drugs in the pipeline, even as other treatments appear to be effective, safe, and available.

"However, this most recent information coming from an unimpeachable source, has convinced me that the virus is definitely not a hoax, not a nothing burger, and most definitely NOT just another bad flu. It is certainly something that will demand effective treatment.

"The corrupt American medical system is completely unlikely to rise to the occasion. It is a system primarily to maximize shareholder profit, not to restore health to the sick. For Pharma indoctrinated MDs, necessity will not become the mother of invention. In the failed state of America, it will be up to decentralized, individual efforts to discover and implement successful treatments for vulnerable populations, and prophylaxis for the rest.

"Given the political context that we live in, those efforts are likely to be met with active hostility, and do not at all conform with the goals of those in power."

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 31 2020 0:58 utc | 271

@ Mina | Mar 30 2020 17:34 utc | 208

What Mike Ryan from WHO is saying does seem to make a lot of sense to me. Another poster previously posted a link to a video statement from a doctor from an ICU unit, Dr. Dave Price, in NY. He does corroborate Ryan's statement in that regard that according to their findings the main route of infection is hand-to-face contact. Not so much by droplets and aerosol.

Link: Dr. Price
~7:00 min mark onward.

@ vk
Sucharit Bhakdi - the armchair doctor
Ever cared to evaluate his credentials?
Maybe that one:
Discovered the long sought after nature of the complement lesion. In my layman's terms, that is the attack mechanism of the immune system on foreign cells, also discovered (with others) that bacteria use same or similar mechanisms.
Contributed extensively to Malaria and Dengue research ..
Look him up.

Posted by: Hmpf | Mar 31 2020 1:04 utc | 272

Hmpf 273

Some of his description of the virus spread doesn't seem to match what we are seeing during outbreaks. especially having to physically touch a person to contract it. Picking it up from surfaces seems likely but then you look at China where wearing a mask is the more the norm...
being where the virus is in the air, droplets or whatever, clothing would become contaminated...

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2020 2:17 utc | 273

Doctors in Italy have finally began widely prescribing hydroxychloroquine in certain combinations in Rome and the wider region of Lazio with a population of around six million.

According to Corriere della Sera, a well known Italian daily newspaper, Dr. Pier Luigi Bartoletti, Deputy National Secretary of the Italian Federation of General Practitioners, explains that every single person with Covid-19 that has early signs, like a cough or a fever for example, is now being treated with the anti-malaria drug.

Posted by: brian | Mar 31 2020 2:24 utc | 274

another nyc numbers update. interestingly in contrast w/ most actual reporta from hospitals (such as @272). apparently only 300 day over day change in ER admissions for Covid?? seems far too low, something in the reporting must be changing? (or else criteria for hospital admission changed drastically which would be a bad sign actually). hope to have this figured out tomorrow.

nyc update:

nyc covid-19 hospitalizations, total
30mar ~7700
29mar ~7400
28mar ~6200
27mar ~5000


Posted by: ptb | Mar 31 2020 2:27 utc | 275

nyc: small anecdotal report, test times now faster.

Someone in my family tested positive. So far a very persistent but mild fever, hoping it doesn't get worse. test result received 2 days after sample taken at one of the then-new drive thru sites.

If that is typical, it is a very important improvement vs about 5 days turnaround that was typical a week ago.

Posted by: ptb | Mar 31 2020 2:39 utc | 276

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2020 2:17 utc | 274

'being where the virus is in the air, droplets or whatever, clothing would become contaminated...'

That, and, as you already stated, surfaces. Same is with masks themselves, are all of them fully save from redistributing collected viruses when being disposed or put away? Also, I wouldn't trust the public to follow safety procedures with masks in detail. So, I believe the public is being mislead in regards of the protective potential of masks. That said, I too believe they do good to a certain degree, how much I don't know, of course. I wish both the South Korean and New York doctors would had quantified their findings.

Posted by: Hmpf | Mar 31 2020 3:15 utc | 277

Posted by: dltravers | Mar 31 2020 0:27 utc | 270

Watch this:

"Meet the doctor who ordered the Bay Area’s coronavirus lockdown, the first in the U.S."

Posted by: JC | Mar 31 2020 3:24 utc | 278

"Ford, GE Promise To Build 15,000 Ventilators Over Next 100 Days"

What a joke GE build ventilators? Maybe Trump and Lawrence Culp, Jr. has forgotten, China's Haier bought GE's appliance unit for $5.4 billion in 2016. Like I said earlier you dun need to be a rocket scientist to designed and built ventilators. If you understand Japanese JIT manufacturing you will know exactly what I'm talking about.

Now "General Electric factory workers launched two separate protests demanding that the company convert its jet engine factories to make ventilators. ...." It will be damn expensive ventilators

Posted by: JC | Mar 31 2020 3:26 utc | 279

Hmpf 278

The common theme I am seeing is reducing virus load or numbers to give the immune system a chance. Masks would play a part in this. The picture I am getting is that hands to face would be a major line of transmission as hands are touching surfaces and collecting bugs. Masks, hand washing, gargling ect all help a bit I guess.
I guess for people in the risk a good protocol would include all those plus perhaps an awareness that cloths could be contaminated also.
Somewhere, perhaps a link in one of these threads, a doctors account of the measures he took and that included straight into the shower and clean clothes when he arrived home.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2020 3:42 utc | 280


Looks like the regulatory gatekeepers are getting out of the way and allowing innovative treatments. Lets hope hospital administrators also quit being such asses and take a supporting role.

“The Food and Drug Administration gave emergency-use authorization to hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for the coronavirus pandemic on Sunday.”
Unfortunately, hydroxychloroquine or quercetin require the presence of adequate zinc to form the zinc ionophore and most US residents are deficient in zinc.

IV Vitamin C "Widely Used" To Treat COVID-19 In NY Hospitals
Interesting that “vitamin C levels in coronavirus patients drop dramatically when they suffer sepsis, an inflammatory response that occurs when their bodies overreact to the infection.”

Posted by: krollchem | Mar 31 2020 4:05 utc | 281

I suspect the commonly accepted ratio of hospitalized/total infections is overestimated. The number is 20% hospital, 5% intensive care. But I fail to find how many people have been hospitalized in Germany. One needs to compare with normal levels of hospitalization and there will be a margin of error because of overlapping causes and because a lot of hospitalizations are being postponed. But I don't even find any numbers.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 31 2020 7:31 utc | 282

Germany - serious critical cases 1,979.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2020 7:38 utc | 283

yes that is the sum of both, and it is the current value. of the total registered 67000 cases more than 2000 have been in hospital, though not all 14000 recovered cases have been in hospital.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 31 2020 8:03 utc | 284

Nigel Farage: Say no to house arrest

Posted by: TJ | Mar 31 2020 8:44 utc | 285

Another interesting MedCram video Coronavirus Pandemic Update 46: Can Hot/Cold Therapy Boost Immunity? More on Hydroxychloroquine

Posted by: TJ | Mar 31 2020 10:02 utc | 286

Must see

When ppl with such a background (Mainz and Stanford) speak out you know there is something.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 31 2020 10:22 utc | 287

The Bloviator-in-Chief

The Roach is immune to everything.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 31 2020 10:46 utc | 288

I very angry Jimmy Dore in the video below fairly accurately describes the voluntary destruction of all the progressives (including Omar, Sanders, Khanna, etc), the end of the Democrat Party as a party of ordinary people, the reveal that America is not a democracy and the looming destruction that is facing ordinary Americans:

Brave Republican Stands Against Stimulus ALONE


Thomas Massie (Republican) Tweet about the Stimulus package:

The stimulus package that just passed is the biggest wealth transfer from common folks to the super-rich (Wall Street and bankers) in the history of mankind.

Done in the name of a virus with $1200 checks as the cheese in the trap.

This will be obvious in short order.


Thomas Massie (Republican) Tweet about Congress suspension:

Two reasons Congressional leaders don’t want remote voting for members:

1) too hard to twist arms through the phone.

2) wouldn’t be able to justify unrecorded votes.

At a minimum, we should be holding public hearings on this virus using modern teleconferencing technology.


Americans need to organise and you have very little time.

Posted by: ADKC | Mar 31 2020 10:54 utc | 289

During the past two days, some planes with medical equipment procedent from China and Russia carrying thousands and millions of medical items have arrived in the US....

The government of Spain, even having suffering the worst rates of cases and higuest death ratio way before the US, hesitates with respec to asking help to China and Russia and instead decided to ask for help to NATO, help that or have not arrived yet or have arrived in a quite ridiculous quantity ( bordering the insult )...

Spain was receiving some donations by Huawei and Alibaba, but after thhe responsible for EU external service, Spaniard Josep Borrell, insulted the Chinese by spreading the line of discourse dictated by the US government and media, those donations ceassed to arrive...

What are we in Spain, the fools of March, or what?

If we are in war economy and conditions, why some Spanish officials behave like working for the enenmy and as if they against the country and its most accute necessities?

If the Spanish Joints Chief of Staff is saying in his adressings to the public that we are at war and we are all soldiers, why all these people by their management and statements are impeding the supplies, from wherever, arriving in the country, by their management and statements, are not fired for treason to the country? Who are they really working for?

Why some Spanish officials submit to the dictates of the US with respect sanctions in a state of war and disaster under pandemic, dictates and sanctions which the US jumps over to save its very ass hijacking the supplies for themselves while we are oblied to comply with sanctions under menace even wqhen our population is dying in the dozens of thousands and, already bordering the hundreds of thousands?

Why the Italian state, being a member of the EU also under accute conditions in this pandemic, has asked for help to the Chinese, the Russians, the Cubans, and whoever is willing to ehlp, and in Spain we are waiting for the help of the EU and NATO, which, is obvious after the last meeting of the Eurogroup, either will never arrive, or will arrive when half the nation in dead and under the typical rate of interest of usure?

Why allegedly leftist Unidas Podemos, member of the coalition of government, is not asking these questions in the ministers council?

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 31 2020 11:29 utc | 290

Yesterday Trump and Pompeo talked to the phone with Putin and Lavrov, and today a flight with medical supplies is arriving already in the US procedent from Russia...

I was wondering why the Chinese help delayed so much arriving in Spain, when before the pandemic you can arrive in China in 24h flight...It is clear the sanctions are to undermine the continuity and progress of certain European "partners"...They want us weak ( by whatever means...)so as their already bankrupt hedge funds can fall like vultures over our national assets, like happened to Greece, and that way solve their accute economic crisis...

And the worst is that, for what it seems, we have Troy Horses in our government who help them...

It would be good to know after all this passes, who was allied to whom, even when playing the opposite...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 31 2020 11:39 utc | 291

TJ @ 286
Don’t trust Nigel Farage ! He will tell you exactly what you ‘want’ to know ! He’s very plausible. But a very devious man, a psychopath, in the pocket of Rupert Murdoch, Trump and Rothchild.
As an example watch how he criticises China compared with the silence re America ! The silence was deafing.
Watch the vid posted by - -
Circe @ 289 to see some one tell us what we ‘want’’ to hear. Compared to what we need to here. The truth.
Thanks for the vid Circe.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 31 2020 11:43 utc | 292

@288 Mina

Sorry, but that's what I call quackery. I say put that quack inside a hospital in Spain right now and force him to help with the the massive amount of sick and dying every day of Covid-19 as punishment.

Don't do this. Don't spread bullshet. You're better than that, no?


😆 Ha! He's quite funny, but here I was under the impression Boris and Nigel were on-the-same-page Brexiters? Boris became full of sh*t, I mean full of his own power the moment he put one foot in 10 Downing. Maybe he was always full of shet.

Yes, I agree there is a loss of perspective in regards to measures taken regarding Covid and then again, even measures not taken, bordering on the chaotic and ridiculous in some regards. However, Nigel lost his own sense of perspective in regards to China or rather his Chinaphobia, and Brexit itself is also based on a loss of perspective, i.e. selfishness. So as amusing as Nigel is, he's still the pot calling the kettle black.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 31 2020 11:58 utc | 293

I got this bad feeling that every 5 to 7 years during a economic downturn some new virus will come out, and bail outs will for wall street gets rammed through, if you don't like it to bad you cant leave your house, no protesting in quarintine

Posted by: Bob burger | Mar 31 2020 12:04 utc | 294

Thomas Schäfer, finance minister of the German lander of Hesse, where Frankfurt is located, the financial capital of Germany and where the headquarters of the Deutsche Bank and the ECB are located, is found dead on the train tracks. Induced suicide?

Why is Germany against Coronabonos and how they plan to solve their own economic meltdown?

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 31 2020 12:19 utc | 295

Situation of the Deutsche Bank compared with other European banks ( including Spanish ones )to understand why Germany refuses to help Italy and Spain, highly likely waiting like vultures for these countries to go bankrupt through the Coronavirus crisis to then jump over their devalued assets at price of ganga, assets previously way more saniticed than hers.

Never was, but at this heights of information coming in, there is no Nature ( a review which named Greta Thunberg amongst 10 scientific sources...) article which could convince me ever the Sars-Cov-2 had its origins in whatever bat/pangolin intermixing in whatever Asian wet ( or dry, for that matter )market, no way...

We recall there is a lot of US bases in Germany and that reality does not seem to bother in the least German elites...Also, it is getting clear who had their economies most in the edge of precipice before all this started...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 31 2020 12:33 utc | 296

You know well the measures that need to be taken: stop financial transaction, make sure each health structure in the country has money and protective equipment, turn the factories to produce what is really needed (+ no more sanctions and erase the debt jubilees for poor countries). Watch Ioannidis, he does not say something else. None of them is against social distancing, but not if it is going to be for a year. Then what is needed is to protect the weak and isolate the positive cases. What they all say is "what is the strategy". Because if in fact it is here to stay, and given the lenghth it stays on surfaces, you need to come up with a plan that is better than just let the poor die on oxygen and let the rich be treated with everything needed.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 31 2020 12:44 utc | 297

I told you so, that this is intended to be the carnage of the EU southern flank...

After one each cargos from China and Russia have already arrived in the US with aid related to medical supplies, in the EU, where there was/is a flight-bridge of less than hour for MEPs...and even a Spanish militar cargo from Shangai has already arrived yesterday night in Spain...

LAST MINUTE: The Spokesman of the European Union confirms that the announced aid for medical supplies will take several weeks to arrive...

If after this, we do not become aware that we are taken for idiots in th EU, we have no remedy...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 31 2020 12:50 utc | 298

Circe, just to be precise, I speak from the view of the French measures, not the US one.
In France, for the last three weeks, people are forbidden to visit their elderly relatives in nursing homes. This includes Alzheimer. But the medical staff (under staffed in the cheapest nursing homes -not free, that doesn't exist, count about 1700 e per month- lots of them were among the yellow jackets) goes from room to room and goes home and goes to the supermarket... Results are that apparently dozens have died with CV, unclear if twice or more as much, but definitely some homes were clusters, and anyway they were not tested pre- or post-mortem, for most).
For a burial, also since three weeks, people -max 20- have been asked to keep 1 meter apart and make short ceremonies, that includes the children apparently.
For 2 weeks, it is forbidden to people in France to go out except except alone, or for a parent with his children, max 1 hour, max 1 km from the house, max once per day.
The results will be worse than you think. Already domestic violence is up 30%. All surgeries except cancer, all medical appointments in hospitals (which is most of our ambulatory medicine, since GPs in France do not even take blood samples or practice any internal exam) have been postponed. There will be such a jam when it reopens that it will take months to catch up.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 31 2020 12:58 utc | 299

Schmatz, In reference to what you point out about Spain, there is an interesting case today in Belgium where some 100,000 masks are to be thrown to the trash because they were sent in dirty banana and corn flakes boxes, where excrements have been found. Strangely enough, after it was said the masks should come from China, it appears they came from Colombia. Using the coke trade paths?

Posted by: Mina | Mar 31 2020 13:02 utc | 300

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