Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 29, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-25

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

  • Mar 25 - Netanyahoo's Corona Coup
    Related:
    Opposition leader Gantz sold out to Netanyahoo presumably in exchange for a promise that Netanyahoo would leave in 18 month. No one believes that he will keep that promise. Gantz' move has blown up his Blue and White coalition. His excuse is the corona crisis which, he says, requires unity. Israel will have quite a problem with the disease. The ultra-orthodox Haredi do not follow the stay at home orders. The Zionist do not care about Palestinians and forget that the disease will not differentiate. The Health Ministry is held by a corrupt Haredi who lacks the relevant qualifications.

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on March 29, 2020 at 14:37 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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I had redacted the post, and sent, but somehow it got lost. I am posting the non-redacted post that includes the main information, albeit in a raw form, where a lot of correction should be added:

Posted by: Mina | Mar 29 2020 18:17 utc | 25

another clue is that the Western govs have done nothing to help their citizens with the simplest ad the cheapest advice they could have given since January: strenghten your immunity.
They could have subsidized fruits and vegetables but it seems that Macdonald knows better.
When i saw the reactions of some here against simple advice such as drinking herbal teas (cleansing the drugs and booze and many other things), I understand it is not easy, but even supra-rationalists like Campbell say "i don't know how to boost your immunity but I know how to reduce it: junk food, alcohol, etc".

How come it was not possible in Europe since January to encourage people via simple Tv programs in being a little healthier that they are usually?

yes, of course. You are absolutely right, Mina. In supermarkets where I live, there was often a sign saying 'eat vegetables and fruit 5 times a day', although I always wondered how to do this. And how to afford this, for example for a family with many children, but anyway, such simple and efficient advices like a walk in the forest or climbing a small mountain make much more sense than to isolate and stay home. The latter makes sense also, but to remain or get strong in health is more important. Interestingly, these signs are no more to be seen. What can be seen are disinfection terminals at the entry*.

To live the life as it is supposed to be for humans, a natural life in a natural environment which gives us all the things we need as biological entities, should be priority of governmental advice. They fail, but that's not a surprise, it can be predicted with assurance. It's not even their fault, because they rely on science, which in itself is misguided by money and media. It's obvious for the discerning observer. There are many observers who keep a cool mind, we are not alone at all. We may even be the majority.

The logical conclusion is that we cannot rely on governmental advice. We cannot rely on many other advices spread by the media. We must rely on our own wisdom. Our own advice. Which is something that has been like this since long time. I read about ancient times where the Mir (Emir), who used to be educated in ancient wisdom and ancient science, declared the time of sowing and harvesting, and the populace profited from the Mir's wisdom and knowledge of season and constellations. But these times are gone, now we have no guide anymore than ourselves. The time has come to decide for ourselves, independently. The time is ripe for a self-determined society of autarkic citizens. It will take a generation or two, or ten, but such crises like this will only accelerate this transformation.

Luckily I live in a very small mountain village where the people (all over 50 in age) naturally do what keeps them healthy, every day, and when I meet a neighbour I see an agile, friendly, fearless person with good taint (bronzed skin due to exposure to the sun and weather). Their eyes are flashing lights. Their smiles are wide and honest. Their jokes are subtle and funny, and unveil a deep understanding of life. We laugh often. They are not afraid of germs, or ticks, or anything exterior. Well, they may be afraid of what the doctor or what the authorities say, but not very much, and not for a long time. They know the 'exterior', they live in it, every day.

I know why I moved to this village 17 years ago. Because I wanted to live among good-hearted, well-minded, friendly, helpful, nice people who rely on their own strength and ability since childhood. I not only love this village, I also learned a lot from the people here. I'm not one of them, but I fit into their community perfectly well. One can find this kind of freedom in all people living in the mountains, worldwide. In towns it's also possible to find people who live a free, good life. It is possible everywhere.

Thanks again Mina, you point out the obvious that has been neglected and ignored by many other sources. This 'crisis' is a very positive thing. While at the same time I do care about the dead. It is not funny to die. But that is life. To my knowledge it is at a normal, even lower rate than usual. The panic is a self-propelled, self-accumulated media hysteria. Which is interpreted differently by people who are young in their full life juice, and people who are already sick or dependent on pharmaceutical drugs and doctor's advises.

The positive thing is that we can learn enormously much at this time, and evolve into a new state of mind. This event changes the global zeitgeist, the global collective awareness. It is happening right now. There will be no going back to the old normal. There is only the new normal. It's called development. In society, in spirit.

*I could expand on this, but I don't have the time right now, as this post is already long enough to read. We have time, time is our ally. No need to hurry.

Posted by: Phil | Mar 30 2020 0:30 utc | 101

Realist @90

The Western populations (especially the American) were already bearing the costs of financialization in the form of stagnant industrial output, unemployment, decaying infrastructure, unavailability and/or declining quality of essential services like health care, rapidly rising cost of living etc. before this and arguably even before the Global Financial Crisis in 2008. The costs are no more socialized now just because the worthless assets have been moved to the Federal Reserve's balance sheet.

What the bail-outs after the GFC did accomplish was enabling the financial sector, by relieving it of the burden of toxic assets, to continue its parasitism on the real economy through extending new loans to raid companies and to extract wealth from home-owners and consumers.

Given that the costs of financialization are already borne by the general public, not by the plutocracy, what's the point exactly of destroying the real economy just to open the door to new bail-outs? Unlike in 2008, there was, from the perspective of the financial sector, no need for any bail-outs because the financial system was still operating, up until the economic crisis that arrived with this pandemic and the resulting shutdowns of the industrial and service sectors. There is not in reality any debt erased or moved to the general public (the plutocracy are in fact *not* the ones in debt, they are the ones issuing debt to industrial companies being hollowed out, to home-owners, students, consumers etc.), but the pandemic risks the collapse (at the very least the end of its legitimacy) of the entire current financial system and with it the continuation of the parasitic process of wealth extraction.

Posted by: Eric | Mar 30 2020 0:32 utc | 102

karlof1 | Mar 30 2020 0:09 utc | 93

Yandex news, rt.com, sputniknews.com thesaker.is are up on some european servers, auto translation tools are down.

Posted by: dennis | Mar 30 2020 0:33 utc | 103

@Realist

Deflating the Wall Street Bubble, a 'bailout' for Boeing, and accelerating 'decoupling' provide powerful reasons for creating or gaming the Covid-19 crisis.

Please see my post: The Empire Games Covid-19

The US expansion, which began in 2009 after the Global Financial Crisis is the longest expansion on record. Many believe that it is built on fundamentally weak foundation: banks still don’t mark-to-market; Quantitative Easing is a ‘sugar high’ that has been continually renewed; and Trump’s tax give-away was only a temporary boost to the economy. In addition, Wall Street has great exposure to fracking companies, and Boeing is in deep trouble.

The renewed ‘great power’ competition between the Empire and the Russia-China upstarts has resulted in a propaganda war where neither side wants to look weak. In that regard, the Deep State wants to avoid a new financial crisis in the West at all cost.

More at the link.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 30 2020 0:34 utc | 104

Realist @95--

You wrote: What they needed was some method of absolving themselves of all blame. Corona lockdown & economic meltdown is that method

Greenspan admitted the situation was already unsustainable and could burst anytime. The continual inflating of asset prices by the Fed was also seen as a desperate ploy to ward off deflation. And there are many more indicators that the system was already failing, that the bailing out instead of indictment and imprisoning in 2008-9 was the absolutely wrong choice--economically, morally and lawfully. Those "in charge" now are just as guilty--NOW--as those were then. There's no defense for the contrived Junk political-economic arrangement known as Neoliberalism--it was based on Bull Shit and has delivered the same to billions. Pompeo's now madder than a wet hen that what was likely his plan to derail China has blown back into his face bigtime and there's no avoiding the eventual consequences--utter failure of the contrived, bullshit system.

There's no hiding who's to blame for its the same cadre that said it's been a success all these years. There are no unknown unknowns this time as it's all overt. Their Moral Depravity's exposed for humanity to see thanks to the virus, and there's no way to refute that Reality.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 30 2020 0:37 utc | 105

Benjamin @99 and, well, just about everyone:

The problem is, of course, binary thought. Some swear that COVID-19 is being used to implement ever more authoritarian control; others swear it's a genuine health catastrophe. Few will entertain the possibility that *both* are the case.

Posted by: corvo | Mar 30 2020 0:38 utc | 106

Realist @90:

What I'm also seeing -- or rather, not seeing, is hide or hair of Gates and his ilk. Are they in their NZ bunkers riding COVID-19 out?

Posted by: corvo | Mar 30 2020 0:40 utc | 107

Realist @83--

One problem with your hypothesis is that 2+ years ago, Greenspan came out and admitted to the fact of an unsustainable, massive bubble in the Bond Market

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 30 2020 0:01 utc | 91

++++++++

Earlier i said "The debt bomb has been long prepared, everyone in the corporate finance world knew it was coming, and all of them knew that the consequences would be brutal, "

Mr Greenspan's warning seems to confirm that statement of mine, no?

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 0:40 utc | 108

Eric @102:

Given that the costs of financialization are already borne by the general public, not by the plutocracy, what's the point exactly of destroying the real economy just to open the door to new bail-outs?

'The point' is deflating the bubble, an extraordinary bailout of Boeing and maybe other corps., and accelerating 'decoupling'. These things would be difficult to accomplish without a CRISIS! that rises to the level of a 'national emergency'.

Also see my comment @104.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 30 2020 0:41 utc | 109

Peter AU 1 @97--

No sooner than I complain about it, the problem whatever it was gets immediately resolved.

@100--

There won't be any "big changes" without a massive shift in Big Thinking/Philosophies, and I nothing like that occurring. Nor do I see the entire affair doing anything to further the #1 Policy Goal of the Outlaw US Empire--for I'm certain they'll try to keep it afloat.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 30 2020 0:48 utc | 110

US and its system were heading for collapse. Trump and his backers could see that. At the moment, this is starting to look like the great coronovirus reset. Bailouts coupled to big changes.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 30 2020 0:30 utc | 100


++++

Precisely. By socialising the debt liability now the problem is shifted from being the fault of finance to being the fault of the virus.

Guillotine dodged for now, the can is kicked further down the road. More austerity. Resultant mass unemployment blamed on the virus and not on the behaviour of the parasitic finance industry.

Bonuses pocketed.

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 0:49 utc | 111

There won't be any "big changes" without a massive shift in Big Thinking/Philosophies, and I nothing like that occurring.

+++++

Yes there will. There will be major social changes. Just not the ones you want or expect. They are already happening, open your eyes.

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 0:50 utc | 112

@ karlof1 93

attributed to the lockdowns -
In some areas of USA, Internet Speeds have plunged

"As an economic depression rolls in, millions have just lost their jobs, the remaining few that can work remotely, are adjusting to a new reality that a pandemic will likely keep them out of the office for a considerable amount of time, have erected an office-like setting at their homes with streaming video and web conferencing."

"With households now pulling record amounts of data, never before seen in the four-plus decade history of the internet, a new report suggests that 88 out of the top 200 most populated US cities have experienced some form of network degradation over the last week.

BroadbandNow says with millions of people working from home and using video streaming services, download speeds have plunged upwards of 40% in some US metropolitan areas last week (March 15-21), compared with the ten-week average.

"[.] list of major US cities that experienced a 20% or greater decline in download speeds last week, versus the ten-week average:
Austin, TX (-44%); Charlotte, NC (-24%); Fayetteville, NC (-22%); Fort Lauderdale, FL (-29%); Hialeah, FL (-21%); Houston, TX (-24%); Irvine, CA (-20%); Jersey City, NJ (-25%); Kansas City, MO (-25%); Lawrenceville, GA (-24%); Littleton, CO (-22%); Marietta, GA (-29%); Miami FL (-27%)[.]

[.] see full list at link above

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 30 2020 0:52 utc | 113

Techniques of science denial

This chart is interesting as is the discussion. The chart is well-organized.

The techniques mentioned are generic - they can be used for more than just "science denial".

What we often see - at moa and elsewhere - is a multitude of these techniques implemented together to crush opposition to TPTB.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 30 2020 0:54 utc | 114

I am sorry, I see that the redacted post is there now. Before it was not. This is a technical problem, I'm very sorry about this.

Posted by: Phil | Mar 30 2020 0:55 utc | 115

The continual inflating of asset prices by the Fed was also seen as a desperate ploy to ward off deflation


++++++

No, the continual inflating of asset prices was in order to milk the rubes for as long as feasibly possible. But the game was up in late 2019 when word got out that at least one of the large banks (imo Deutsche Bank) were having trouble meeting their overnight obligations. JPM said "we ain't helping" so The Fed went into Repo overdrive to shore the sustem up in the shortterm

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 0:58 utc | 116

@ 109 Jackrabbit

The point is, why would they want to (actively intervene to) deflate the bubble? The transfer of wealth from the real economy is a continuous process. The longer you can keep a company like Boeing going, the more of its assets (be it savings in pension funds, machinery, residual goodwill etc.) you can liquidate and pay out to yourself in the form of interest on loans (that the company owes to you or your friends), stock buybacks or bonuses.

Same thing with mortgages: The longer you can keep the real estate market in a bubble and the home owners at least treading water, the longer they can pay you exorbitant interest rates, and the more of their labor and savings you can siphon off.

In the event of a crash like in 2008, or now due to the coronavirus epidemic, bail-outs are a necessary intervention to stitch up the balance sheets of the banks, private equity funds etc. so that this parasitic process can be started up again. That doesn't mean that the crashes are desired - in fact, the exact opposite. It's not through the bail-outs that the actual wealth transfer happens, but rather between them.

Posted by: Eric | Mar 30 2020 0:58 utc | 117

karlof1 @91: "what mattered was the very unanticipated Chinese and then South Korean responses--they weren't gamed whatsoever"

This is an excellent and crucial point. If this bio attack was part of some convoluted plot to crash the markets in such a way that the empire's gangsters and some faction of the oligarchy further enriched themselves and increased their power in the world, then it is obvious that it was a huge failure. Perhaps we do have the fascist Iron Heel descending upon us in the West right now, that doesn't change the fact that the world's economic center of balance has shifted to China over these last couple months. Covid and the mock fight between Russia and the Saudis has economically knocked all the developed world on their asses (except maybe Russia, but that remains to be seen, I think), but China is the first to get back on their feet. Global markets are theirs for the taking. I scoffed at the suggestion before, but I am starting to think it might not be out of the question that we see humanitarian missions from China and Russia attempting rescue work in the US in the not-so-distant future.

Naturally, it is impossible to predict with perfect accuracy what will come out of a somewhat chaotic situation like this, but the trends do not look good for the empire.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 30 2020 1:03 utc | 118

"soft-lockdowns" are a thing but only in Japan ... Tokyo Governor Koike requested everyone to not travel unless really important. Tochigi, Saitama, and Kanagawa Governors also issued similar "requests" to their constituents ... these requests pertain to Sat and Sun only. but come Monday ... back to work ... crowded trains.

several cases being documented with no direct route to a known carrier! community spread. and is one of the reasons for the "soft-lockdowns".

stimilus package in the work for small to medium enterprises ... and people below a certain income bracket.

Abe is waiting for a cure ... Japan is pushing Aviga.

an acquantance just mentioned one of his friend had succumbed to the virus. this got me thinking ... how are insurances handling the pandemic?

Posted by: r | Mar 30 2020 1:04 utc | 119

corvo 106 "Few will entertain the possibility that *both* are the case."

That has been my thought for the last week or two. As I put in one of the earlier threads 'The peasants are between a rock and a hard place'.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 30 2020 1:06 utc | 120

Interesting about internet speeds plunging in US. I know the EU asked Netflix to reduce bandwidth by 25% by using standard definition. I wonder if its not a demand issue but if the big providers are cutting supply by reducing speeds. I believe Amazon stopped shipping DVD’s and books to boot (according to family in US)

This all comes of course with 5G being rolled out. Most consumers have no need for 5G, already perfectly content with their internet speeds. Solution, reduce internet speeds to increase demand for 5G.

There are so many beneficiaries from this COVID fraud its not funny. I’ve already mentioned the obvious players ad nauseam. Certainly not anyone in the bottom 90%. But if you let yourself get played so easily, its just never going to stop.

Posted by: Pft | Mar 30 2020 1:21 utc | 121

The problem is, of course, binary thought. Some swear that COVID-19 is being used to implement ever more authoritarian control; others swear it's a genuine health catastrophe. Few will entertain the possibility that *both* are the case.

Posted by: corvo | Mar 30 2020 0:38 utc | 106

+++++++

I have no problem with that statement of yours. It doesn't change anything I have said. In fact Covid being a genuine health catastrophe makes protest or dissent of any form, against the direction our leaders have chosen, much harder

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 1:24 utc | 122

Looks like Ireland has also fell for South Korea's totalitarian measures against the COVID-19...

Ireland to launch phone tracking app to tackle spread of COVID-19

Those evil South Koreans, polluting the pure minds and hearts of the honourable Western people!

Posted by: vk | Mar 30 2020 1:26 utc | 123

Perhaps we do have the fascist Iron Heel descending upon us in the West right now, that doesn't change the fact that the world's economic center of balance has shifted to China over these last couple months.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 30 2020 1:03 utc | 118

++++

Manufacturing has shifted to China but finance has not. Consumption has plummeted. The Chinese need to sell what they manufacture.

Try arranging financial debt instruments internationally. You'll find it almost impossible to do outside of the dollar system. It's possible to do so, but its not easy, and its more expensive

Its not just the petrodollar system, its also the debt-dollar system.

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 1:32 utc | 124

Looks like Ireland has also fell for South Korea's totalitarian measures against the COVID-19...

Ireland to launch phone tracking app to tackle spread of COVID-19

Those evil South Koreans, polluting the pure minds and hearts of the honourable Western people!

Posted by: vk | Mar 30 2020 1:26 utc | 123

++++++

Yes, the full-spectrum surveillance industry is one economic sector which is about to experience a boom, now that the legislative barriers in place to prevent it are falling across the globe

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 1:34 utc | 125

Eric @117:

The point is, why would they want to (actively intervene to) deflate the bubble? The transfer of wealth from the real economy is a continuous process... It's not through the bail-outs that the actual wealth transfer happens, but rather between them.

The markets are complex systems and they can get stressed. The expansion was well beyond its sell-by date and required life-support for much of the duration (QEx, tax cuts, etc.). A soft landing for Wall Street and recession that can be blamed on coronavirus/China are less risky than letting the markets crash on their own. There will be no big 'reset' that some have been hoping for (at least not anytime soon).

And a focus on deflating the bubble is misleading. They had multiple ways to game this CRISIS!. And protecting favored interests (like Boeing) as well as the system itself is one just icing on the cake.

And IMO it's clear that they delayed appropriate action so that a CRISIS! would develop. Any normal response would be to shut down schools and public events as soon as 'community transmission' was detected. But we have a report from NYTimes of requests to test general population for 'community spread' being denied by multiple government agencies in February. USA didn't WANT TO KNOW that there was community spread.

And they allowed Mardi-Gras and Spring Break to proceed.

USA FDA has just approved 15-minute testing but implementation is 3-weeks behind Japan and more than 7-weeks behind China.

<> <> <> <> <>

IMO the of gaming a 'Trumped-up' CRISIS! is clear. It's not clear how SARS-COV-2 developed. Speculation continues about the deliberate or accidental release of a bio-weapon.

It could be that the Empire has more to answer for than just 'gaming'. But that is unclear at this point and will be debated for months to come.

A case can be made that the timing of SARS-COV-2 was too convenient to be chance. Not only did it allow for the Empire to 'game' the CRISIS! but the ARAMACO IPO occurred at just the right time - oil prices peaked in December.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 30 2020 2:10 utc | 126

So what’s the deal with Stanford Prof. John Ioannidis’s take? He makes very good points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6MZy-2fcBw Dr John Ioannidis

Similarly, lots of supporting information from Europe
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

And here, two more Stanford professors
https://web.archive.org/web/20200325103650/https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-11585088464">https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-11585088464">https://web.archive.org/web/20200325103650/https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-11585088464

Then I see MSM’s 24/7 coverage. Am I missing something?

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Mar 30 2020 2:21 utc | 127

@Copeland

thank you, you've always been kind to my rhymes. I'm pretty cynical but hope some forms of local resiliency will emerge after these monsters and their new world occult fever dreams ravage the planet in an orgy-tantrum of psychotic rage.

Posted by: lizard | Mar 30 2020 2:27 utc | 128

This is a great blog. B.'s calm, intelligent analysis leaves a person feeling better informed & just plain better. And contributions from many of the readers are great -- such as the very wise "Grieved". So I was disappointed to see Grieved promote the latest musical offering from Bob Dylan. In 1981, when Israeli jets were bombing the city of Beirut & their army was invading south Lebanon, Israel attracted international criticism for the first time. The response by Bob Dylan was a song defending the country doing the bombing & invading! And it's ironic that Dylan's latest song is about the murder of John and Robert Kennedy, since new research by a French journalist, Laurent Guyenot, makes a very compelling case that the Kennedy's were killed by Israel's secret service!

Posted by: Jim | Mar 30 2020 2:42 utc | 129

Here is the second link

https://web.archive.org/web/20200325103650/https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-11585088464">https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-11585088464">https://web.archive.org/web/20200325103650/https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-11585088464

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Mar 30 2020 2:42 utc | 130

Nathan Mulcahy "Am I missing something?"

The matching half of what is happening in Italy for starters. What those on the front lines are saying. Only trying to save those under sixty or sixty five due to lack of ventilators and so forth would have the effect of pushing the average age of the deceased up.
There is much about large numbers of undiagnosed cases. This requires pulling numbers out of arses.
Part the reason for the thinking on large numbers of undiagnosed cases is the belief that everyone will catch this disease. Spanish flue only hit about 20 - 25% of the population.
Coronavirus cruise ships showing similar percentage. Possibly only 20 - 25% of the population will contract the virus resulting in various levels of illness.
If this is the case, then deaths as a percentage of the population will be less, but mortality amongst those susceptible to the disease is higher. there is also percent damage amongst survivors to consider. Many critical cases that survive will suffer permanent lung damage. it will be some time before we have a good idea of how much permanent damage has been done to how many people, but this needs to be right up alongside deaths when looking at the human cost of the virus.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 30 2020 3:04 utc | 131

filo machado doing take five... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bfk2K16dZw

Posted by: james | Mar 30 2020 3:59 utc | 132

Today, Trump stated that people might commit suicide because the Coronavirus lockdown cure that will hurt the economy is worse than the disease.

No. I don't think people will suicide over losing some money.

People will suicide over what another 4 years of Trump will do to this world.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 30 2020 4:07 utc | 133

The liability has now been "socialised", the debts being now underwitten by taxpayers. Through their silence on the matter, the fear filled populace concedes defeat
The system will continue as before. The guillotine has been dodged
Posted by: Realist | Mar 29 2020 23:43 utc | 86

Blah, blah, blah! What "silence" are you listening to? There are fearful people, of course. But many are playing the game out of caution and learning in the process. I still don't know a single person who has COVID-19, or know a person who knows a person who has COVID-19. I'm not the only one. When the crisis is over, there will be no turning back the fact that the Fed produced trillions of dollars with the snap of a finger to bail out "the system" when the market crashed, but nobody in authority can seem to find money for universal health care to deal with a health crisis, whether real, imagined or overblown. People have no choice but to be prudent and quiet and to watch their leaders carefully at this time. Judgement will come later.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Mar 30 2020 4:10 utc | 134

Pft #80

There should be another Nuremberg Trial and those behind this or playing a role should be held to account.

Let us commence with a war crimes tribunal into the invasion of Iraq, the destabilisation of Syria and now the theft of resources from those two nations.

Then we might simultaneously have a Crimes against humanity tribunal to hear allegations against the Sanctions Coward in Chief; the USA and the camp dogs that go along with it. That tribunal should be authorised to make compensation from the USA reserves to those nations that have been denied the essentials for human health and well being arising from sanctions plus compensation for all the consequent loss of lives.

Then we could have a US citizens Crimes against humanity tribunal into all the CBW labs scattered about the USA and world that have failed to deliver on their vaccines but have delivered on their virral infection of the USA and the world.

By the way Pft, hows that CDC prosecution of the murderous military and civilian clowns at Fort Detrick going?.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 30 2020 4:39 utc | 135

We are saved by an oil price discount

Now the USA no longer has a reason to steal or blockade any more oil as drivers across the planet can be immensely grateful /s

$20 a barrel !

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 30 2020 4:55 utc | 136

@121

The entire Western network infrastructure is now hopelessly behind that of China; Alibaba alone hosted whole-day online video classes to at least 200M students during the lockdown without a hitch.

That is also a prime example of why Western anti-China propaganda is counterproductive: While the West is wasting time indulging in ideological bashing, China is investing all its energy on real progress. By the time facts become too obvious to ignore, the West finds itself too late to catch up, just as COVID has proved.

Posted by: JW | Mar 30 2020 5:53 utc | 137

A very good article on the Saker https://thesaker.is/covid-19-derangement-syndrome-a-world-gone-mad/

The world is in fear driven turmoil right now because of the following reasons:

Ignorance: Our leaders are completely ignorant about how the human body works and are relying on guidance from a conventional medical system that is rife with agenda and corporate driven pseudoscience.

Poor or non-existent planning and training: This is self evident and seems to apply to most countries.

Narrow thinking: The response is the same all over the world – mass quarantines, isolation, and shutting down of commerce and travel. No country seems to be taking a different approach.

Incompletely defining the problem: No government seems to be giving any serious consideration to how they can minimize the economic damage that their solution to the problem is causing. Yes, many governments are throwing vast amounts of money at the problem by creating debt based money but does that ever really work?

Treating the Covid-19 pandemic like a war that needs to be waged instead of a recurring problem that needs to be properly mitigated with the right tools and approaches for the job: The USA’s war on Covid-19 will be about as successful as the USA’s War on Cancer has been.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Mar 30 2020 5:57 utc | 138

evidence covid 19 a bio engineered weapon

A remedy for the pathology caused by the single cellular infectious, pneumonia causing covid 19 varmint is in play.. and much of the solution seems to be non patented, cheap and of substances already tested as drugs.. We learned on this list that respirators can be produced locally, not up to specifications and not with the sophistication demanded by high level specification writing institutions but good enough for medical work and life saving when the high priced, sophisticated units are not around. A pump that forces air into and out of the lung is a respirator. in the 1940's they were everywhere used for polio victims. . .. local mechanical equipment or tooling operations might be able to fabricate make-shift lung air to outside (or compressed (oxygen) air pumping unit that local hospitals can use in a pinch. There is no telling the great inventions that might come out of multi many small companies producing their unique version of the respirator.

Posted by: snake | Mar 30 2020 5:59 utc | 139

What's your proof it backfired?

Posted by: Realist | Mar 29 2020 23:53 utc | 89

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

This virus is not some master plan by US to take over world/own populace's freedoms etc. Biological weapons are notoriously unpredictable, pandemics have complexity beyond any prediction, and frankly, US government is made of bunch of morons that can't calculate 2 + 2, as proven by their actions numerously.

What they do has logic in it only if they are suicidal and want to destroy own country. Parasite that kills own host is stupid parasite.

Posted by: Abe | Mar 30 2020 6:17 utc | 140

snake 139

simple bellows, half liter per stroke and, I think, 22 strokes per minute. Oxygen is easy to get hold of if that is required.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 30 2020 6:27 utc | 141

Circe@46

Great points. It is so sad that few people understand the reality of exponential growth where the doubling time is based on the ln2(70)/%growth per time*100. Currently, the number of deaths (2485) from COVID-19 in the US is doubling every 3-4 days. Given the current case number of about 142000 and assuming an infection doubling time of four days, about 300 million US residents could be infected within 11 doubling times (May 11th).

It has been estimated that 80% recover without hospitalization, 15% require oxygen and drugs to recover and 5% are critical and require intubation and placement on a ventilator. Unfortunately, under the best conditions about 70% die during this process, yielding a cumulative number of deaths of about 8.8 million, assuming a 70% national infection rate. Unfortunately, the lack of ventilators, PPE and physicians/nurses will require doctors to only treat the critical ill with the best chance of recovery (e.g. fewer co-morbidities and a lower viral load). Given these limitations, the number of dead would rise to over 11 million.

Many of those who are hospitalized but not requiring critical care will have wide spread lung scarring. Due to a lack of staff and oxygen delivery systems many of these patients will degrade into requiring critical care and eventually die within days. Many of those lung scarred patients who survive will be susceptible to secondary infections leading to death within the following five years.

It is possible that up to 15 million might die before June 1st. This number does not count those that die due to a lack of medical aid for cancer treatment, heart attacks, bacterial infections, injuries, etc.

The progression of the infection leading to death is dependent on viral loading. Unfortunately medical workers are denied proper PPE and facilities leading to high viral loading leading to hospitalization, and in some cases deaths in otherwise healthy medical personnel. This in turn reduces the ability to reduce the number of US deaths.

I do not see any government official being honest about the dire fate facing US residents. It is as if panic control and profits are more important that the lives of the people. In the end the politicians will ultimately say that there was nothing they could have done.

The bright spot is that those who recover, based on serological tests, will generally be able to care for the afflicted in their time of need or otherwise help in the logistics of providing food and supplies to those in need like is done in Venezuela!

Unfortunately, the psychopaths will not let a crisis go to waste leading to an dismal post pandemic neo-feudal world for the little people...
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/54015.htm

Posted by: krollchem | Mar 30 2020 7:05 utc | 142

China's death toll is now being doubted. I've read some arguments. They're not good. Basic procedure is alright: distrust guides attention, then connect dots. But stop there and you get rubbish or just disinfo feeding the 'China can't be trusted' campaign, propelling speculations to world news which otherwise would not have been considered publishable. IF China acted competently and effectively they would be prepared for the worst and bring in extra people and urns for the crematories . Then they would find out whether they need them. There are urns for months which have to be collected.
Will China's numbers need correcting? Sure. Will there be mistakes and dragging of feet? Possibly. But I see no good reason to assume bad faith. At least not on their side.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 30 2020 7:13 utc | 143

This quote just about sums it all up:

“Corona is a black light and America is a cum-stained hotel room”

All The Craziest Things About America Are Being Highlighted By This Virus
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/03/27/all-the-craziest-things-about-america-are-being-highlighted-by-this-virus/

Posted by: ak74 | Mar 30 2020 7:17 utc | 144

Meanwhile in France, Macron is behaving like Trump.
https://france-police.org/

There is a rumor that the Police in France will be going on strike tomorrow due to a lack of PPE. This does not include the military police assigned to the Interior Ministry(Gendarmes) and the CRS Vichy era bastards.

For more on the viewpoints of the real police in France see:
https://twitter.com/VIGI_MI

Posted by: krollchem | Mar 30 2020 7:25 utc | 145

@142 krollchem

Those numbers seem about right to me. Of course there will be 2nd and 3rd order effects, hopefully nothing catastrophic like those running nuclear power stations getting sick and there being an accident etc.

Posted by: TJ | Mar 30 2020 7:47 utc | 146

Posted by: krollchem | Mar 30 2020 7:25 utc | 145

The French complain a lot, it's well known. A union complaining about their conditions of work is hardly unusual. It's their job.

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 30 2020 7:53 utc | 147

One thing a simple respirator will not do is remove carbon dioxide from the blood. The lungs remove carbon dioxide from the blood as well as adding oxygen.

A gadget like this is required https://aabme.asme.org/posts/device-removes-co2-from-blood-to-help-people-with-copd

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 30 2020 7:57 utc | 148

Steve Pieczenic an arch Trumper and conservative ex special ops heavyweight says on his latest video that the whole of Northern Florida was infected with Covid-19 in Mid January. He and his family had it. He could have it wrong and had some earlier covid version but...

I suggest you might gird your loins and watch this 5 minute rightist dummy spit even for amusement. Tequila shots will assist. Download and store.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 30 2020 8:12 utc | 149

I posted a link above to Steve Pieczenic and forgot to mention that it is worth scanning the comments as one or two pint to 2019 dates of infection in the USA.

This next video locates infections close to Maryland and the video is worth the time.

Nathan Rich posted this video on 17 March at his youtube site and it currently has over 800,000 views. Nathan Rich loves life in China and is consequently disliked by some USians.

Note the comments:..

Commenter Livin’in Theloophole
[Posted approx. 26 March]
I live in Delaware.. right next to maryland. Like 1 mile.. in late November early December everyone around here had a horrible unnamed respiratory illness. Flu negative. My family had it.. almost killed my mother. Went to the drs 3 times had it for 21 days.. bad. It was not a normal flu and no dr could help.. everyone at my physical therapy place had it. For 3 weeks they all said drs couldn't pin point it. We all laughed at the unnamed respiratory illness and made jokes.. they had the same exact symptoms. The people at drug stores food store.. everyone in this little town had it. Right after wuhan got it. This has been my theory also. I figured we had it and it mutated in china and came.back. my mother has been isolated since then. So when we can see if she has antibodies we will know.. also they are flat out refusing to test us here. Like they dont want us to know.

Archaic Revival
[Posted 28 March approx.]
I started seeing patients with symptoms of Covid 19 in Maryland in September. 20 minutes from Washington DC.

Worth reading the comments as some complain of youtube deleting some previously good comments.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 30 2020 9:08 utc | 150

I received an email from a friend who has a colleague who is now knocked down by the virus in Paris. His GP said just take some rest and paracetamol. He tried to call the emergency number but they never answered (maybe he wanted to be tested; he does not seem to have respiratory problems yet). So he was writing to his friends and colleagues to say 'it is serious, stay home, because if you get sick there is no one there to treat you'.
Luckily that is not the case in the few countries which still have a functional health care system (they should watch out because they will be on the list for more to come soon, I would suspect).

The French MSM starts to put the blame on China again for the complete failure of its gov, now to say that they have hidden the real numbers and therefore the dangerosity. Their proof? Some 30,000 ppl in Hubei have been claiming some funerary urns. Of course they do not question the normal mortality, or the fact that during the 2 months confinements, ppl have been dying of many different things.

Phil, thanks for the remarks about the nature of bodies. Do you recommend some plants to balance the fire/dryness? i have started chlorophyl and it does helps with very strong dehydratation i have been experiencing these latest years.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 30 2020 9:23 utc | 151

So he was writing to his friends and colleagues to say 'it is serious, stay home, because if you get sick there is no one there to treat you'.
Luckily that is not the case in the few countries which still have a functional health care system

Posted by: Mina | Mar 30 2020 9:23 utc | 151

They've been saying for some days that the Paris hospitals were overloaded. He's certainly right in his advice, but that's generally the case for COVID 19. According to British statistics, if you are ventilated in hospital, you only have a 50% chance of survival. If you're in an at risk category - age, other diseases, etc - the only solution is to stay at home, and avoid all contact - probably for the next six months.

Generally, the French health system has a good reputation. You can find some very good doctors if you look, but you do have to look.

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 30 2020 10:48 utc | 152

Activist Potato @ 134 says:

I still don't know a single person who has COVID-19, or know a person who knows a person who has COVID-19. I'm not the only one.

i don't either, and i even live in Italy...

Brooklyn

Ireland

NYC

somewhere in America

Berlin

Phoenix

NYC

Posted by: john | Mar 30 2020 10:56 utc | 153

US government is made of bunch of morons that can't calculate 2 + 2, as proven by their actions numerously.

What they do has logic in it only if they are suicidal and want to destroy own country. Parasite that kills own host is stupid parasite.

Posted by: Abe | Mar 30 2020 6:17 utc | 140

++++++

Lol, first you state that our leaders are morons, then immediately afterward you essentially state : " they cant be that stupid".

You seem quite confused.

--------

Blah, blah, blah! What "silence" are you listening to?

Posted by: Activist Potato | Mar 30 2020 4:10 utc | 134

++++++

Still butthurt? You need to get over that.

"There are fearful people". The silence of fearful people.


Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 11:21 utc | 154

@ TJ | Mar 29 2020 18:19 utc | 26

So the SCMP is deliberately missing out the scenario that it mutated in an animal host and that the only reason to not explore the possibility that it was engineered is that there is no public data on it. There is a lesson here, always go to the source and find out what they really said rather than some 2nd or 3rd hand account which is probably slanted by everything from politics to simple human prejudice.

Let us not rule out, in the general case of the SCMP (i.e. not speaking of this instance necessarily), slanting by incompetence. There is a small talent pool for these things in Hong Kong. Mediocre expats who would never cut it in countries where English is the native tongue can here feasibly pose as authors, journalists, opinion columnists, etc., simply because there is little competition.


Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Mar 30 2020 11:22 utc | 155

Mina 151
Dehydration.
Happened to me in India, during a bad bout of diarrhoea, Doctor told me to drink "eau de coco". Coconut liquid. It worked. Has special properties.
You can get it in supermarkets. Intermarche has "Vaivai" or similar, (and "Kara" milk for cooking. The best, as it made from fresh cocnut whereas the others taste as if they are "reconstituted" from dried copra.)

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 30 2020 11:23 utc | 156

Thanks! I noticed it is good indeed.. but alas, really too expensive where I live. The problem has been going on for years. chlorophyll works, i should just stick to it.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 30 2020 12:05 utc | 157

So, a short and purely personal dissertation on lung fungus and The Corona ...

As I mentioned once before here, I had a bad case of lung fungus about 25 years ago, age 50, which after 4 months or so of battle put me in the ER with two broken ribs from my own coughing. The nice ER doc diagnosed me with bilateral mycobacterial pneumonia, gave me some erythromycin (I think) which knocked it right out. (Yes, I can be stubborn.) It left some damage up around my trachea such that it could be difficult to bring stuff up from my lungs. A lot of healing has occurred since then, and I don't have much problem with that now, but some damage is still there, and I'm going to be 75 soon....

(As an aside, did you know that the standard treatment for non-displaced broken ribs is nothing? Just leave it there and don't do it again?)

So I fear the Corona, and I know what I'm afraid of, and I've had my eye on it since December, and started taking steps to prepare since mid-January when it was clear it was not going to be confined to China, despite their valiant efforts. In retrospect, I think it's been here (USA) all along, without getting into where it came from, about which I don't care much.

My wife subs in the local schools here and I was sure I was going to get it if I didn't have it already, and I was pretty sure if it went bad on me I was going to be on my own, win or lose, and that is what I prepared for, to fight it out. I started self-sequestering in late Jan., dropped all my bad habits (not much these days), and started paying attention to rest, nutrition and immune support, reading many of the ideas put forth here. At that time I was already having symptoms of hayfever/allergies which are pretty normal for me here and which I manage with a HEPA filter and some Diphenhydramine HCL (an antihistamine) now and then. I haven't had much problem with respiratory infections in the last few years otherwise. It was not a good year for hayfever for me, but I was doing OK with it.

I got the first viral symptoms around end of February (I think) which took the form of "virusemia", a general malaise, for a week, and then little irritated dots up in my nose which would produce little bits of snot. I started using salt water to try to keep things clean up there, wash the snot out, and have been doing that several times a day since. It takes a little practice and is messy but really seems to help.

This went on for a week/ten-days and then the dots went away, and I had a little burst of energy. A day or so after that I started a steady post-nasal drip coming from the lymph tissues up in my nose, which I again worked diligently to keep cleaned out and expectorated without irritating my nasal passages too much.

This went on for a week of maybe ten days, and then it went away too and another little burst of energy.

And then bang the whole area up in my nose got that sore, infected feeling, with resumption of the post-nasal drip. It keeps coming. So I resumed the nasal lavage, rest, and immune support, etc, and that cleared up in 4-5 days, with another little burst of energy.

And then about two days ago it got down in my throat/voice box, nasty little cough, more snot. And I know this is it, the next step is my lungs, and then the fungus. I am bummed. But now, less than two days later, I can feel I've got it on the run, the irritation is declining, snot drying up, no cough. I worked hard to suppress/avoid the cough, gargle and spit, warm tea, etc..

So each time, it clears up a little faster. A buildup of immune response. If I don't give up on the treatment for another week of so, I think I can beat it. Wish me luck.

---

So, it's a sneaky persistent fucker. Don't assume it is gone just because it lets up for a bit.

Treatment has consisted of heat, keeping warm, avoid chills, I've used a heat pad on my chest/neck and it helps, nasal lavage & gargle, just enough calories for the fight with some supplements, nothing mega though, not for me anyhow, fresh air & sun when available, and lots of rest, trying to stay comfortable, keep my nasal passages comfortable, a little antihistamine for sleep and to dry things out. A bit of petroleum jelly on the eyelids and around the nose helps, maybe a little medicated around the nose.

I am not a medical person of any stripe and this is not advice, but perhaps it will help illuminate your own experience. I also don't like to talk about myself much, so I'm not ignoring you, I'm an introvert.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 30 2020 12:07 utc | 158

Posted by: Mina | Mar 30 2020 9:23 utc | 151

Do you recommend some plants to balance the fire/dryness?

I have almost zero knowledge in plants, so I cannot give a recommendation I'm afraid. The stinging nettle comes to mind. It grows near water and produces the firy nettle poison. It's an old medicinal plant.

Posted by: Phil | Mar 30 2020 12:12 utc | 159

John @ 153
I expect those links you posted show preparation for the sharp rise in patients soon. I’d be interested to see those same links in one month time ! It’s a pandemic.
If only they had stopped the planes arriving into the U.K. in Jan or Dec Britain would be in the clear.
We need to be pro-active not reactive!

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 30 2020 12:48 utc | 160

Bemildred @158

For all of that you don't really know if those episodes you experienced were the result of a Covid infection. I'm not saying they weren't, but at your age and with the common seasonal allergic response you related, it may not have been. I'm not far behind you at 67, and I have severe COPD, chronic bronchitis, and emphysema, and have lived with the reality for the last five years or so that even a common cold or the seasonal flu could kill me. During the winter months over those years I had already practiced social distancing and self-sequestering. I had an episode about three years ago and my left lung collapsed, called 911 and as the ambulance was making its way through town my vital signs became erratic, the EMT told the driver to step on it, turn on the siren, and that he "didn't want this to happen in the back of his vehicle." Unholy shit!

So, I've thought a lot about my impending death these last years, and several weeks ago when the seriousness of this was hitting home I received several poignant phone calls, one from my eldest son, and another from his lifelong best friend (and a great friend to me also and my faithful DIY assistant/apprentice.) The tone of those conversations was as if they wanted to speak to me again before it was too late. Very strange and disquieting.

I hope you recover Bemildred, and I have appreciated your measured and wise commentary here. I've had a good and full life, and most of the unhappiness I experience is not due to personal reasons, but for my assessment of the prospects of the future of humanity. I have two sons, and a grandson, and sometimes I despair at the future he and his generation may have to endure.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Mar 30 2020 13:14 utc | 161

Wish you best of luck, Bemildred.

Posted by: acar burak | Mar 30 2020 13:22 utc | 162

Mark2 @ 160 says:

I’d be interested to see those same links in one month time

yeah, me too. i'm sure we will.

Posted by: john | Mar 30 2020 13:27 utc | 163

I figured we had it and it mutated in china and came.back. my mother has been isolated since then. So when we can see if she has antibodies we will know.. also they are flat out refusing to test us here. Like they dont want us to know.
Archaic Revival
[Posted 28 March approx.]
I started seeing patients with symptoms of Covid 19 in Maryland in September. 20 minutes from Washington DC.

Worth reading the comments as some complain of youtube deleting some previously good comments.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 30 2020 9:08 utc | 150

+++++

It has been claimed repeatedly that there were 2 mutations of the virus identified in China.

Whereas in the US there were 5.

People who claim some knowledge of these things stated that the presence of 5 mutations in the US was proof that the virus originated in the US not China. More mutations meant more time to mutate, therefore wherever one found most mutations, indicated that we had found the source.

The US not China appears to be the source, going by that reasoning.

The logic of that argument seemed sound enough to me, and until someone eith provable expertise makes a better argument, that's the one I'm going with

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 13:37 utc | 164

John @ 153

I live in Spain, I have a small apartment workspace in town and a more spacious area outside in a very rural area where we can grow some food.

A colleague in a 1000 person community 30 miles out from Barcelona has just lost her Grandmother last night in hospital in a pulmonary collapse related/consequence to Sars CoV2. Both her parents have it -aged mid 60's(they were tested on the admission of the Grandmother). She lives separately to them and is being tested today. aprox 8 days ago local medical ran an appeal for masks/gloves/gowns as the supply chain had been requisitioned by the central Govt. in Madrid and local hospitals ran out and were using refuse sacks as disposable gowns. Since China/ Huawei has shipped in new deliveries the situation has alleviated a little, until some stupid comments by EU rep. stopped the Huawei shippments.

I've many Catalan friends and have heard no doubting comments to the numbers shown here:

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/news/coronavirus-cases-catalonia-towns-and-neighbourhoods_486072_102.html

People are pissed off with the incompetence of the Spanish Govt. which has added fuel onto the fire of local governance.

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/politics/coronavirus-alarm-spain-forgetfullness-negligences-crisis_486456_102.html

(I'm a bit busy today but will try and comment later)

Posted by: dennis | Mar 30 2020 13:39 utc | 165

Posted by: vinnieoh | Mar 30 2020 13:14 utc | 161

Yes to all that. All I really know is it's a virus of a type I've run into before, and in this case there's a new one and it's highly infectious. I get the impression the confusion as to which is which is pretty general and will take some work to resolve.

I have appreciated your comments here many times, and my best regards to you too.

Posted by: acar burak | Mar 30 2020 13:22 utc | 162

Thank you.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 30 2020 13:40 utc | 166

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 13:37 utc | 164

The subsequent behaviour of the US (Assholia) and it's asshole media, ranting about those horrible Chinese, lends credence to the theory of US origin, imho

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 13:43 utc | 167

nyc update:

nyc covid-19 hospitalizations, total
29mar ~7400
28mar ~6200
27mar ~5000

(source: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-providers.page)

NY "stay-at-home" order began 10 days ago. The next few days of hospital admissions will help establish how bad or not it really is.

With yesterday's data point, at least, the daily hospitalizations are NOT looking like exponential growth any more.

Posted by: ptb | Mar 30 2020 13:54 utc | 168

@ Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 30 2020 7:13 utc | 143

Like I've been saying: the proof is in the pudding. Wuhan will lift the lockdown on April 8th, and it is already resuming its main economic activities (trains are already back to normal).

And the funerary urns story is funny. It came out in Caixin Global, which stated there were people waiting a lot of time ("hours long") to get the ashes of the dead. But they took photos of the lines, and they show 10 people tops sitting on banks waiting for their turn. There are many plastic banks empty in all the pictures. Liberation of ashes is a very bureaucratic and sensible service, it's no fast food, so I guess that it takes a long time with each person in line to be fully attended - hence the long waiting times.

Besides, the headline of the article and the gallery never state those lines are specifically for the relatives of the dead by the COVID-19: it just states that the funerary service has resumed operations. So, even if the French MSM's number of 30,000 is true (I didn't find that information in Caixin article), it could be simply that, over a two months, 30,000 ashes accumulated in the crematorium. But people die by numerous causes, not just COVID-19.

Posted by: vk | Mar 30 2020 13:59 utc | 169

Bemildred: my two cents, avoid any sugar, even honey (because bacteries feed on sugar and it seems the thing become bacterial in addition to viral when it goes down). Try to find some eucalyptus oil (alt: cinammon, ravintsara, niaouli) and mass your sternum and lower throat with a few drops several times a day.
Stay strong! Good luck!

Posted by: Mina | Mar 30 2020 14:35 utc | 170

@ Peter AU1 | Mar 30 2020 3:04 utc | 131

Thanks for your response. What I am afraid that I am missing is the motive behind the panic porn being broadcast by the mainstream media 24/7. When that happens, my BS detector goes up immediately. I am not saying that COVID-19 is harmless. Rather, just like Stanford Prof. John Ioannidis, I miss the attempt to base decisions on sound data. I understand, just like Ioannidis, that initially governments and administrators are forced to take actions based on incomplete and flawed data.Nothing wrong with that. But the time has long come and gone when we should be operating differently.

As for fatality rate, and at this stage, it is a rough estimate. That estimate can go in either direction. Nothing wrong with starting out with what we have. But here again, I miss a rigorous attempt by most people involved to start creating good quality data, and making decisions based on those.

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Mar 30 2020 14:51 utc | 171

More worrying news from the Far East:

Nikkei tumbles on fears of Tokyo coronavirus lockdown

As my First World coleagues say: the markets always know better.

Japan to expand entry ban to include U.S., China and most of Europe

They were waiting for the Olympics to be officially postponed to do that. Lost one month.

Seoul to reduce subway service due to coronavirus from Wednesday

Is the pandemic reaching Seul? There are already dozens of daily cases there. If it hit the city full, it's game over for South Korea.

Posted by: vk | Mar 30 2020 14:59 utc | 172

The handling of the COVID-19 health crisis almost everywhere is chaotic, short-sighted, disproportionate, counter-productive, wasteful, and totally unsustainable.

1. Above all, strict, mandatory sanitary discipline should be adopted everywhere: social distancing, wearing masks and gloves and hand-washing.

2. Temporary lockdowns of nursing homes and senior residences is essential and all residents and associated personnel must be immediately tested if not already tested.

3. Measures should be implemented to protect and assist seniors 60+ living at home alone (groceries, food and pharmacy delivery) so they don't expose themselves.

4. Seniors with family and people with underlying conditions, such as compromised immunity, asthma and so on should be temporarily moved to separate housing with their caregiver or attending personnel in place at that facility. All should be tested for Covid beforehand. Hotels can be used as temporary housing with government subsidy.

5. Also measures should be implemented to give shelter to the homeless that provide separate units for individuals and those with spouse and or children.

6. People sheltered off the street must all be tested prior to housing them and there should be sanitary control of the facilities to prevent infection.

7. Also temporary hospital facilities must be created and a triage done at all hospitals to send the least critical patients non-Covid patients to those temporary facilities to unburden hospital staff.

8. Then hospitals must be stocked with all necessary PPE and ventilators. All temporary facilities should also have plenty PPE stock.

9. Besides creating temporary facilities military personnel can be used to provide healthcare assistance where they have training and help with food preparation, laundry, cleaning, stocking and so on.

10. Once these measures are in place to protect the most vulnerable, it is not necessary to throw vast sums of money at the rest of the population across the board willy-nilly.

11. Wherever possible, with controlled protective conditions, businesses should keep functioning. If supermarkets, banks and pharmacies can keep functioning, so can other businesses. Most restaurants can implement delivery and checkout with strict sanitary conditions mandated. Hotel staff workers can be used temporarily in nursing homes, hospitals and temporary hospital and housing facilities for the vulnerable with stocking, food prep, cleaning and maintenance.
There should be shorter work shifts so there isn't overload to cause weakened immunity. Therefore more workers are required.

Industry already converting to production of medical supplies will continue to operate as massive amounts of this product will be required.

Merchandise stores with online purchasing can add personnel to their distribution centers and should implement gloves and mask and distancing protocol.

12. During this time workers must be encouraged to use their own vehicles to travel to work, and all public transport must be equipped with hand sanitizer, gloves and masks for people boarding public transport after which they can dispose them and the same protocol be mandatory at their workplace.

13. People without children should be most resourced for work at this time and in two-parent households, one parent should be put back into the workforce instead of collecting unemployment. Schools should remain closed, but instruction time lost should be made up in some way.

14. Vacation time should be shortened or eliminated for everyone receiving payment during this time as well as to complete school year. (No free lunches...except for the poor. And by that, I mean no one should be exploiting the system at this time for recreation.)

15. Yes, the tourist and airline industries will be affected, but reshuffling and repurposing can be done, and rigorous sanitary measures implemented to keep as much business functioning as possible.

16. There are ways to safely put strong, healthy people under 50 back to work instead of throwing billions at them to stay home, having them do nothing to help out and implode the economy when there is need for their service.

Once you put rules and discipline in place to protect the most vulnerable, then you can still sustain enough productivity to protect the economy as the infection rates decline. If 80% of the population is not at serious risk, it makes no sense to pay them to do nothing when they could be useful, productive and helping in some way.

Governments should be adopting organized and creative solutions and adapting to changing circumstances instead of the chaos, lazy disproportionate solution we are witnessing that is having detrimental consequences all around presently and for the future.

There is a moral imperative in better managing this crisis.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 30 2020 15:12 utc | 173

Just saw now at CGTN: Germany worried "virus spreading too quickly", healthcare system may collapse.

The problem is that, although the German government is doing a good job testing everybody, they can't quarantine the ones who are tested positive (unless in an already terminal stage, in which case they can intern in an ICU).

That means Germany can test its people - but can't do nothing about it. As a result, the German who's tested negative today may well be positive tomorrow.

Must save the (capitalist) ideology.

Posted by: vk | Mar 30 2020 15:12 utc | 174

Bemildred@158

You are doing the right things, bravo.

I mentioned earlier on the last link that at the Saker site is a very good post from an Iranian that tells in detail what the general practise for approaching this virus is in Iran. It is to do exactly as you describe. I will go now and retrieve a link for you.

Posted by: juliania | Mar 30 2020 15:19 utc | 175

Circe says "temporarily moved to separate housing" and vk says "Must save the (capitalist) ideology."
Exactly, therefore any chaos and panic seem better than requisition of empty buildings, office space and hotels (which anyway are out of business for most of those under lockdown).
It reminds me of the panic effect created by some WH and their affiliates by invading a hospital and shouting in all direction to actually provoke the desired images.
The problem with SK and Japan is that they have not grounded flights (til now apparently) and that in both places the quarantines were not mandatory. Enters personal data... as if we had any once we have a smartphone.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 30 2020 15:20 utc | 176

The virus is getting democratic in France: a Spanish princess, a French MP yesterday, and almost a week ago, the great Manu Dibango.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/30/europe/spanish-princess-coronavirus-death-scli-intl/index.html

Posted by: Mina | Mar 30 2020 15:23 utc | 177

Bemildred - Here is the link I referenced above. I don't believe it will harm the thread as is.

http://thesaker.is/covid-an-infectious-disease-and-a-phantom-pandemic/

Posted by: juliania | Mar 30 2020 15:24 utc | 178

What to make of this video from outside St. Elmhurst hospital in New York where a doctor had claimed "apocalyptic conditions", but where the apocalypse is nowhere to be found?

Ghost Town NYC – Are New York Times Lies Fueling Pandemic Panic

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 30 2020 15:28 utc | 179

@JackRabbit #114
Except that the author doesn't list the many examples of techniques used by the climate panicmongerers.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 15:29 utc | 180

@Likklemore #113
This isn't surprising - a lot of Americans use cable for internet.
These systems have a fixed total bandwidth per section - the more people use, the less capacity/speed is available for everyone in that section.
Lockdowns certainly would drive up internet usage.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 15:31 utc | 181

Posted by: Mina | Mar 30 2020 14:35 utc | 171

Thank you Mina. I have been avoiding all factory-food and fast food for 6-7 years now, and that includes sugar, but I use honey to make switchell(*) which I use daily for hydration and minerals.

You are right to mention the lesions, I did get a couple canker sores up along my gums, nasty ones, and that is what I was worried about in my lungs. That is where the lung fungus finds a home I gather. At that point I think I would be toasted and looking for the exit. But they (sores) resolved at the end of stage 3 up there as I described it.

I'll look into the eucalyptus oil, sounds handy to have around.

(*) - Switchell

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 30 2020 15:34 utc | 182

@Tuyzentfloot #143
Indeed. China has a death rate of 7.7 per 1,000 per year.
Wuhan population is 11.9 million.
Even without nCOV, there would be around 7,600 deaths per month.
Let's not forget - with the lockdown, there probably was significant accumulation even disregarding additional deaths due to nCOV.
Thus the urn lines and the urn shipments - very much anecdotal and meaningless.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 15:37 utc | 183

nCOV/COVID-19 mutating slower than normal flu. No detectable/significant differences between strains. source

Researchers say the virus appears to mutate very slowly, with only tiny differences between the different strains, and that none of the strains of the virus is more deadly than another.

They also say it does not appear the strains will grow more lethal as they evolve.

'The virus mutates so slowly that the virus strains are fundamentally very similar to each other,' Charles Chiu, a professor of medicine and infectious disease at the University of California, San Francisco School of Medicine, told USA Today.

The differences are therefore due to sampling: denominator differences arising from actual number of nCOV infected vs. testing rates vs. definition of "confirmed", numerator differences in health care systems being overwhelmed.

As the CCD/DSU postings show - Germany has been a huge outlier in terms of much fewer deaths than cases compared to anyone else, while Italy is showing literally 4 times as many deaths per confirmed case as even New York. The Italy vs. Germany delta is 60 times!
I think you could only get that by shooting patients, if the delta is truly mostly because of health care.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 15:43 utc | 184

Of course, I also meant to add that testing of the majority low-risk population should continue rigorously for even mild symptoms especially if their service is being used in healthcare or they are put back to work, and self-quarentine for positives imposed with compensation for 14 days.

And all testing of course should be recorded to then utilize as much as possible Covid-immune human resources where needed.

Again, a disproportionate solution is not a solution, but creating other problems, and that's what is happening now.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 30 2020 15:55 utc | 185

As the CCD/DSU postings show - Germany has been a huge outlier in terms of much fewer deaths than cases compared to anyone else, while Italy is showing literally 4 times as many deaths per confirmed case as even New York. The Italy vs. Germany delta is 60 times!
I think you could only get that by shooting patients, if the delta is truly mostly because of health care.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 15:43 utc | 185


+++++

Apparently Germany and Italy use very different coding routines for recording fatalities.

The German coding is very narrow, i.e. if one dies of heart failure it is recorded as heart failure irrespective of whether or not Covid19 is detected.


The Italian coding is extremely broad, i.e. if one dies of anything and CoVid19 is also detected the death is recorded as a CoVid19 fatality

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 15:55 utc | 186

@Abe | Mar 30 2020 6:17 utc | 140

This virus is not some master plan by US to take over world/own populace's freedoms etc. Biological weapons are notoriously unpredictable, pandemics have complexity beyond any prediction, and frankly, US government is made of bunch of morons that can't calculate 2 + 2, as proven by their actions numerously.

So maybe these morons were sufficiently stupid fanatics that they didn't realise the virus wasn't just going to be their toy to bring down the chinese, but it would come back and bite them even more? Based on your description of them (and I agree) it makes sense.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 30 2020 15:55 utc | 187

"Keep in mind, as you read the words of this idiot, that he spent months (if not years) polluting the comment threads on this very website, screaming words and phrases like "racist" and "useless conspiracist" at anyone correctly claiming that ISIS was a US/Anglo-Zio proxy.
The man is an idiot, his ability to correctly analyse events in realtime is completely non-existant
Realist@67

Your assertions are a tissue of lies. I have never doubted and often remarked upon the close ties between imperialism and wahhabi militias such as ISIS.

William Gruff @76 is correct. I have no idea, and do not pretend to have any, on the origins of the pandemic. I am aware that the US has 'form' on the use of biological warfare, both against China and Cuba- this makes them likely suspects if any state was involved in producing the virus. But I do not believe that the current crisis was planned or desired by the imperialists- it is producing conditions which are very dangerous for their system and totally discredit their ideology.
You make a mistake, 'Realist" if you believe that you can silence critics by slandering them.

James: I got the Dilbit price from a comment at The Tyee which is an excellent site. (Canadian Zephyr mean anything to you?)

Posted by: bevin | Mar 30 2020 15:57 utc | 188

Posted by: juliania | Mar 30 2020 15:24 utc | 179

RE Iranian commentary:

Yes, I agree with his POV, though we each must adapt depending on where we are and what we have to work with. And thank you for the encouragement, I considered some of your ideas when putting together my own arrangements here, I like the way you think.

In the end, you want your own immune system to kick its ass for you, that's the objective. Better maybe to avoid it, but that was not on the table for me, and many others too.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 30 2020 16:07 utc | 189

Your assertions are a tissue of lies. I have never doubted and often remarked upon the close ties between imperialism and wahhabi militias such as ISIS. "
Posted by: bevin | Mar 30 2020 15:57 utc | 189

+++++++


No my recollection is 100% correct. I saw you do it repeatedly at the time. You can try deny it now, but you ain't fooling anyone.

Your ridiculous argument at the time was that people who correctly identified ISIS as US/Anglo-Zio construct where racist because they were not granting those poor terrorist any "agency".

Your other pathetic argument at the time was that that people who correctly identified ISIS as US/Anglo-Zio construct were deranged conspiracy theorists who saw nothing but conspiracy everywhere and were probably all anti-Semitic to boot.

Why bother trying to dishonestly deny it anyway?

You have previous form at making such dishonest arguments. The evidence is there for all to see because that ISIS argument is very similar to the pathetic one you vomited up here earlier at comment #59

"Just as today only fascists and idiots believe that the pandemic was planned and implemented in order to advance the agendas of TPTB.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 29 2020 21:05 utc | 59"

Anyone Bevin disagrees with is a Fascist apparently.

"±+++++++++++++++++++

Well, the Chinese leadership seems to think so. As does Pepe Escobar. Were they the Fascist idiots you had in mind?


https://consortiumnews.com/2020/03/18/china-locked-in-hybrid-war-with-us/ (including links at source)

Adding all that to the fact that coronavirus genome variations in Iran and Italy were sequenced and it was revealed they do not belong to the variety that infected Wuhan, Chinese media are now openly asking questions and drawing a connection with the shutting down in August last year of the “unsafe” military bioweapon lab at Fort Detrick, the Military Games, and the Wuhan epidemic. Some of these questions had been asked– with no response – inside the U.S. itself.
Extra questions linger about the opaque Event 201 in New York on October 18, 2019: a rehearsal for a worldwide pandemic caused by a deadly virus – which happened to be coronavirus. This magnificent coincidence happened one month before the outbreak in Wuhan.

Event 201 was sponsored by Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the World Economic Forum (WEF), the CIA, Bloomberg, John Hopkins Foundation and the UN. The World Military Games opened in Wuhan on the exact same day.

Irrespective of its origin, which is still not conclusively established, as much as Trump tweets about the “Chinese virus,” COVID-19 already poses immensely serious questions about biopolitics (where’s Foucault when we need him?) and bio-terror.

The working hypothesis of coronavirus as a very powerful but not Armageddon-provoking bio-weapon unveils it as a perfect vehicle for widespread social control — on a global scale.

Posted by: Realist | Mar 29 2020 22:58 utc | 75"

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 16:16 utc | 190

"them likely suspects if any state was involved in producing the virus. But I do not believe that the current crisis was planned or desired by the imperialists- it is producing conditions which are very dangerous for their system and totally discredit their ideology.
You make a mistake, 'Realist" if you believe that you can silence critics by slandering them.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 30 2020 15:57 utc | 189"

+++

And there you are being dishonest again

It wasn't me who tried to silence anyone by slandering them. That was you.

It was you that commented


    "Just as today only fascists and idiots believe that the pandemic was planned and implemented in order to advance the agendas of TPTB.

    Posted by: bevin | Mar 29 2020 21:05 utc | 59"

Thats the problem when you tell so many lies. You can't even keep track if them it seems.

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 16:21 utc | 191

Realist @191:

[to bevin]: Your ridiculous argument at the time was that people who correctly identified ISIS as US/Anglo-Zio construct where racist because they were not granting those poor terrorist any "agency".

My recollection agrees with Realist.

If bevin disputes this, I'll happily spend some time searching the archives.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 30 2020 16:23 utc | 192

@Circe | Mar 30 2020 15:12 utc | 174

14. Vacation time should be shortened or eliminated for everyone receiving payment during this time as well as to complete school year. (No free lunches...except for the poor. And by that, I mean no one should be exploiting the system at this time for recreation.)

Except that in the company where I work we are forced to take out vacation now, it helps their cash flow in times of low demand they say. There is nowhere to go so taking vacation like this is anything but exploiting the system.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 30 2020 16:31 utc | 193

@Realist #187
I'm sure there are differences, but even with the 10K nCOV deaths in Italy - the overall death rate in Germany isn't 60 times lower than Italy.
For that matter, Germany's death rate is normally higher than Italy's: 11.7 vs. 10.3 per 1,000 population.
In any case, am keeping an eye out for more information.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 16:35 utc | 194

Yet more evidence that it is the medical industrial complex that is the real swamp in the US: source

The pharma/health products industry continues to spend more on Capitol Hill influence operations—a record-breaking $228 million in 2019 alone—than anyone else.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 30 2020 16:36 utc | 195

@ Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 30 2020 15:28 utc | 180

In these cases, you can do two things: interview people from NY and/or observe the circumstancial evidence.

Since I bet you're Norwegian, I guess you can't interview people from NY. So you'll have to do with circumstancial evidence.

And the circumstancial evidence points to the collapse of the American healthcare system, at least in NYC.

First, we have to accept that Donald Trump is in the laissez-faire side: he doesn't want to stop the American economy (even at the cost of some thousand American lives).

Second, we have that he tried to enforce quarantine in NY. He had to back down because of political pressure and you could argue he tried to pin down a blue state so he has greater chances to win the 2020 elections. So, we may discard this circumstancial evidence.

Third, we have that he revised his date for the end of the lockdown to a later date (from Easter to April 30th). This is important evidence: here we have Trump, mr. laissez-faire par excellence, giving ground to the "flu" COVID-19. That's certainly not a decision a laissez-faire head of state would take, except in one scenario: the COVID-19 is indeed a pandemic, and is indeed more than "just a flu".

What's more: that April 30th date is clearly invented. Viruses don't care about the fact that capitalism pay their workers at the end of each month. That the lockdown will end, very conveniently, at the last day of the next month is clearly wishful thinking to calm down businesses and the working class. If a laissez-faire head of state backed down on the deadline and pushed it to the next best deadline is a clear indication it was a purely political decision, that has nothing to do with the reality on the field. The UK (the other country with a declared pro-laissez-faire government) has already announced (yesterday) that the "partial lockdown" (which is another capitalist fiction, since viruses don't care about "partial" paths, it just infects everything it can, through the path it finds) will last at least until end of June. There's no reason it won't be different in the USA.

Posted by: vk | Mar 30 2020 16:39 utc | 196

" I have no idea, and do not pretend to have any, on the origins of the pandemic. I am aware that the US has 'form' on the use of biological warfare, both against China and Cuba- this makes them likely suspects if any state was involved in producing the virus.
Posted by: bevin | Mar 30 2020 15:57 utc | 189

+++++++

You really are a terrible liar. The evidence of your dishonesty is available for all to see at comment #59, where you said:

    Just as today only fascists and idiots believe that the pandemic was planned and implemented in order to advance the agendas of TPTB.

    Posted by: bevin | Mar 29 2020 21:05 utc | 59

You were quite unequivocal there when you said that.

Now you claim the complete opposite.

    " I have no idea, and do not pretend to have any, on the origins of the pandemic."


As I said earlier: The problem when you tell so many lies, Bevin, is that you have trouble keeping keep track of them

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 16:43 utc | 197

@ 189 bevin... canadian zephyr was before my time! i am listening to 'someone special' just now.. thanks...

Posted by: james | Mar 30 2020 16:45 utc | 198

'Realist'
Both statements are true: I have no idea where the pandemic came from but I do know that it cannot have been planned by the ruling class because it is proving to be the biggest threat to them in decades.

What is evident from your comment is that I have offended you by attacking idiots. I'm sorry, nothing personal was intended.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 30 2020 16:49 utc | 199

Realist'
Both statements are true: I have no idea where the pandemic came from but I do know that it cannot have been planned by the ruling class because it is proving to be the biggest threat to them in decades.

What is evident from your comment is that I have offended you by attacking idiots. I'm sorry, nothing personal was intended.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 30 2020 16:49 utc | 200

++++

So you have finally confirmed that your opinion of the Chinese Gov and of Pepe Escobar is that they are all Fascist idiots. Good to know your thoughts on that. By their fruits shall ye know them

    "±+++++++++++++++++++

    Well, the Chinese leadership seems to think so. As does Pepe Escobar. Were they the Fascist idiots you had in mind?


    https://consortiumnews.com/2020/03/18/china-locked-in-hybrid-war-with-us/ (including links at source)

    Adding all that to the fact that coronavirus genome variations in Iran and Italy were sequenced and it was revealed they do not belong to the variety that infected Wuhan, Chinese media are now openly asking questions and drawing a connection with the shutting down in August last year of the “unsafe” military bioweapon lab at Fort Detrick, the Military Games, and the Wuhan epidemic. Some of these questions had been asked– with no response – inside the U.S. itself.
    Extra questions linger about the opaque Event 201 in New York on October 18, 2019: a rehearsal for a worldwide pandemic caused by a deadly virus – which happened to be coronavirus. This magnificent coincidence happened one month before the outbreak in Wuhan.

    Event 201 was sponsored by Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the World Economic Forum (WEF), the CIA, Bloomberg, John Hopkins Foundation and the UN. The World Military Games opened in Wuhan on the exact same day.

    Irrespective of its origin, which is still not conclusively established, as much as Trump tweets about the “Chinese virus,” COVID-19 already poses immensely serious questions about biopolitics (where’s Foucault when we need him?) and bio-terror.

    The working hypothesis of coronavirus as a very powerful but not Armageddon-provoking bio-weapon unveils it as a perfect vehicle for widespread social control — on a global scale.

    Posted by: Realist | Mar 29 2020 22:58 utc | 75"

Posted by: Realist | Mar 30 2020 16:59 utc | 200

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