Boris is preparing his nation for herd immunity. He just tested positive for Covid, as reported by the WSJ.

Posted by: occupatio | Mar 28 2020 5:48 utc | 103

ADKC @99
That’s part of the problem: it’s hard to say she was definitively wrong (or right) because what she did is so out of character, even granting she’s a mainstream politician in the One Fraternity With Two Chapters.
With Warren, for example, it really wasn’t a shock that she stabbed Sanders in the back—again. Or with Buttigieg the climber, who claims Sanders to be the man who inspired his political career.
The Gabbard thing just didn’t and doesn’t make clear sense according to the conventional (reactionary) wisdom or practical reason.
The rewards for a supposed “betrayal” or “sellout” are far from evident, especially when compared to the ones earned by Warren, Buttigieg, and, yes, Sanders (speaking as a Bernie 2016 supporter). Putting aside appeals to 4D chess, which I treat with skepticism, the payoff in her case is merely a bare minimum of political survival. But wow, what a price to pay—for four years—for so little.
I did sense in her announcement a bit of the middle finger being throw, at least to those who slimed her relentlessly for anything she said or did. And I suspect she was sending a message to the DNC, that they’re not going to be rid of her so easily.
Still, though, if even that was what she was doing, it raises A LOT more questions than it answers.
Maybe she’s Iago incarnate. And maybe I and her other supporters are as irrelevant and misguided as practically everyone has claimed.
But it’s all still MAYBE until what actually happened is brought to light.
In any case, I’ve given left-leaning Democrats and their crackpot realism, passed off as Realpolitik, too much of a benefit of the doubt. 2016-2020 has cured me once and for all of that bad habit.

Posted by: Near Barbarian | Mar 28 2020 6:13 utc | 105

Near Barbarian @ 97
As you said, so much is out of character and the rewards of supporting Biden are dwarfed by the obvious negatives. As opposed to others, I’ll wait to hear what the characters involved say and see how this plays out before coming to my own decision. Tulsi is not running for re-election and Biden seem even more critically wounded by the latest abuse charges (surprise surprise). Very very unclear what is going on.

Posted by: sad canuck | Mar 28 2020 8:18 utc | 107

Karlof1 and ADKC in the 60s
Yes, the only solution is deglobalization, starting with the MbSing of the corporate and financial oligarchs. They have been MbSing the rest of us for far too long through their “bailouts”, and systematic destruction of of our nations and societies.
Any private corporation or institution that is to big to fail, is to big to be in private hands and needs to be nationalized and localized. The people through their governments (national, regional and local) should be in control of health care (including big pharma), education, energy, banking, and all other entities formerly known as public utilities. Most of these should produce products and services at cost, or even at a loss for the benefit of society.
In addition their needs to be a free transfer of technology among societies. Patent regimes need to be revised. Patents on life forms need to be banned as was the case up until 35 years ago. They should also be severely restricted in terms of time. Corporate control of university research needs to be ended, It is purely profit based for the benefit of those corporations and not for society. Any research that might threaten their profits is censored, and researchers required to sign non-disclosure agreements.
The world needs to change its approach, but the way Davos or the G-20 “leaders” would like it to change. They are really interested in more of the same, turbocharging austerity for and surveillance on the rest of us. This has to end.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Mar 28 2020 8:45 utc | 109

Look at the crap the yanks are putting out now.

Alleged Maduro accomplice surrenders to U.S. agents, will help prosecution: sources
Reuters
CARACAS/BOGOTA (Reuters) – U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency agents on Friday remanded in custody retired Venezuelan general Cliver Alcala, three people familiar with the matter said, after he agreed to work with prosecutors who charged him, President Nicolas Maduro and other top officials with drug trafficking.
Alcala surrendered to DEA agents in Colombia and waived his right to challenge extradition, the three people told Reuters. He was flown to White Plains, New York from the port city of Barranquilla, where he had been living.

Apart from this clown being in Columbia, the yanks are calling Venezuela officials or ex officials Maduro’s accomplices. It would be nice to see the US become a sheet of glass.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 28 2020 8:56 utc | 111

For all the people going on about Boris Johnson getting the coronavirus, he’s supposed to have a mild case, but when you actually look at the video where he tells us about it, he actually looks quite sick, when compared with other videos from people who’ve got it.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/uk-prime-minister-boris-johnson-tests-positive-for-coronavirus
I’m crossing my fingers for him being the first head of government fatality. Although he looks like a buffoon, he has a very nasty, vindictive, personality. He conspired with a friend to have a journalist beaten up.

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 28 2020 9:48 utc | 113

Near Barbarian #105

it’s hard to say she was definitively wrong (or right) because what she did is so out of character, even granting she’s a mainstream politician

Thanks for that long analysis. I call her decision wrong because it abuses her hundreds of thousands of followers who believed in her message of ending regime change wars. I have walked in her path all my life and led many thousands of people in public elected office and would never betray them and their political investment as the goal is bigger than the self.
I believe she did not have to make her endorsement for the war monger. She should have made her philosophy and promise real and tangible by refusing to back the dotard, war mongering, carpetbagging fraud that is Biden.
Her donors and followers and their integrity would have been reinforced a thousand times.
But she shit on them and gutted their emotional and intellectual and aspirational trust in her. Sabotage.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 28 2020 10:14 utc | 115

ted01 #115
I am sure that the armed citizenry will take the odd pot shot. But read Howard Zinn and see what the USA National Guard does to rebellious citizens – machine guns at close quarters.
Nowadays they have small drones with Utzis mounted on them to pursue by face recognition those they seek to kill.
Better get some drone disablers fast and few Trump face masks.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 28 2020 10:29 utc | 117

uncle tungsten 113
A good deal of the population vote for the duopoly and will continue to do so.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 28 2020 10:38 utc | 119

I said this before on March 1 here:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ //
Coronavirus – Its Time To Press Your Government To React Faster
If you and I get together and plot to rob a bank, and ‘they’ find out, we go straight to jail for ‘conspiracy crimes’. But the powerful eleets are always cautioning us that we must NEVER imagine that ‘they’ (the powerful eleets) would do anything to violate our ‘rights’.
The little people may have ‘conspiracy theories’ about the eleets. But the eleets are constantly on the lookout for ‘conspiracy crimes’ perpetrated by the peasants.
So now, going forward, we are sure to hear a lot of cautions from the mass media (TV, academe, and so on) about ‘conspiracy theories’, which of course are MUCH more sinister that the virus itself. That bullmanure is already being being laid on. Surely those nice, genteel eleets would never do anything to harm us. Would they?
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What we have here is one hell of a fine crop of green Conspiracy shoots coming right up at us!
There is the insane Joe Biden Conspiracy:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ //
Tucker Carlson: Biden insiders say he won’t make it to Election Day
“Two competing imperatives: We’ve got to win, but we’ve got a guy who can’t win. Therefore, they’re going to replace him,” Carlson continued. “He’s not going to make it, and the people around him know that. Trust me, I know them. And I know they know it, because they’ve said it to me.”
Carlson went on to estimate that New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is “most likely” to replace Biden for the Democratic nomination.
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then as I said in the previous Virus thread (the Virus cannot be quarantined out from this thread):
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ //
Paul Craig Roberts — Coronavirus Profiteers Are Worse Than War Profiteers — 3/27/20
“France is being intentionally destroyed. Are pharmaceutical companies mass murderers?
Is the same thing happening in the United States?”
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you have the slightest Conspiratorial mind, how the hell can you ignore THIS???
STOP RANKED CHOICE VOTING!!!

Posted by: blues | Mar 28 2020 10:56 utc | 121

blues #120
Ranked choice voting is a good thing if done right. In the USA they will be CERTAIN to do it wrong as both parties of the right will want to be able to rig the outcome. So don’t harangue the rest of the world with that particular problem in the same way the USA harangues and sanctions the rest of the world.
In the corrupt election machinery of the USA, any ballot system is certain to be rigged. Sad.
Tucker Carlson is right but so is blind Freddy, Biden is dead meat and the jackals can smell him.
I give him no more than ten days and either way I will shout the bar a case of Patron Tequila and we can celebrate the demise of a true blood scumbag carpetbagger.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 28 2020 11:09 utc | 123

=/ Ranked choice voting is a good thing if done right. In the USA they will be CERTAIN to do it wrong as both parties of the right will want to be able to rig the outcome. So don’t harangue the rest of the world with that particular problem in the same way the USA harangues and sanctions the rest of the world.
In the corrupt election machinery of the USA, any ballot system is certain to be rigged. Sad. /=
Too bad that really brilliant people totally fail to catch this giant fraud.
Ranked choice voting is totally fraudulent for the same reason that computer voting is fraudulent. THE ELECTION MANAGERS ARE PERMITTED TO ‘EDIT’ THE BALLOTS!!! What could be more insecure than that???
You think they won’t cheat to gain power? I have a real nice bridge to sell you.

Posted by: blues | Mar 28 2020 11:23 utc | 125

#32 – You would expect someone suffering from the Black Death of 2020 to hand over office to a deputy, not self-isolate but remain in charge. Basically he is acting like this is essentially just a higher-intensity bout of common cold, which perhaps it is.
In the past week or so there have been sporadic indications of an attempt to walk back somewhat from the apocalyptic stuff. This is one of them.

Posted by: Waldorf | Mar 28 2020 12:32 utc | 127

I’m going to write this here and maybe then copy it to the Coronavirus thread, cause it’s political and it’s existential in nature.
This pandemic is demonstrating that few if any countries (societies), even the ones with a socialist healthcare system are placing the (financial/moral) emphasis that should be placed on healthcare. In a way, I hope this pandemic is a beating, a shellacking, because, we are living in the most shallow, materialistic, greed-driven, indecent time ever in the history of mankind.
Everyone, except people really suffering, really sick and poor have been living like there’s no tomorrow and they’re invincible and especially in the U.S. and Europe, and some areas of the MidEast; Israel worst of all. The rampant selfish delusion and apathy is unsustainable.
If people don’t use this moment as a guide to prioritize what really matters: putting important resources into healthcare, moving away from fossil fuels and caring for the future of the planet and the lesser of its people, then this will be the watershed moment when the western world could and should have changed its ways and didn’t and the imminent, real countdown to extinction begins.
Don’t follow the flash in the pan; the polish, the never-attainable image of perfection. This is why I am with the rudimentary Sanders whose priorities are well placed if not yet perfect, and who imperfectly delivers the right message without the frills. Don’t push him to have to cow to the Establishment with your stupid purity test!
We must make healthcare, climate change and the plight of the vulnerable who struggle to survive in the midst of so much greed, materialism and hubris, the burning priorities, right now! Times up.
Or we are doomed from this moment with this moral decay. Trump and Biden will take us to successive disasters and we will not be equipped to handle what’s coming physically, economically and spiritually.
This is the moment when we decide what really matters as a species: our true purpose and humanity or imminent self-destruction through depraved excess and apathy.
Sanders is the imperfect but essential vehicle of this critical message. Either you are for destruction for whatever bias or stupidity drives you or you are for what is RIGHT. There is no other path at this point and to imagine there is, to cynically profess there is with destruction staring us down, borders on wilfully CRIMINAL and selfishly PSYCHOTIC. Such is the degree of negligent behaviour and irresponsibility at this time. And don’t make high and mighty hesitation a pseudo-intellectual exercise in complicity!
No, it’s not hyperbole on my part! Look around you, lazy morons with mule blinders on!

Posted by: Circe | Mar 28 2020 13:41 utc | 129

Please,B, tell us with some indication whether it’s true or not that the US of A are putting indecent pressures on countries all over.. to reject the Cuban doctors and medics bound to mitigate this virus crisis.
Because the worldwide watched scene of the 250+ cuban white jackets, vastly applauded by the Italians in the Milano airport was
way too much for the empire…
I figure the proportions of this demoralizing moral defeat and this planet wide communicational defeat for them can hardly be exaggerated.

Posted by: augusto | Mar 28 2020 14:25 utc | 131

@26 vk Bezos is on a Pentagon intelligence board. He also owns WaPo which (along with NYT) is the CIA’s main propaganda outlet.

Posted by: Noah Way | Mar 28 2020 14:49 utc | 133

Argh!
During supper, I watched the local news dominated by the Trump press conference. Then came the nightly news a healthy bit of alarmism tinged with some touching feel-good acts and a play on patriotism. (ABC + NBC) After that, the local ABC affiliate went to their coronavirus Q&A which they now do every night. I wanted some local news so I went to the NBC affiliate.
There was a story about trying to get Americans returned to this country. One guy is in Kenya helping out there when this hit. So the video has scenes of the guy playing with Kenyan children but then there’s a pickup truck full of guys in hazmat gear AND white hard hats with the Syrian Civil Defense/White Helmet logo.
WTF!!!
The video continued with a State Department spokeswoman saying stuff.
White Helmets trying to stay relevant in the one last area dominated by the terrorist group HTS by wearing hazmat suits and spraying disinfectant around.
Check.
State Department/NBC sneaking in video of them amid a story about Americans outside the US trying to return.
Shameless.
(but par for the course)
A search turned up two propaganda sites and a rebuttal by Vanessa Beeley (a voice of common sense).
https://syrianobserver.com/EN/news/56846/syrias-white-helmets-join-the-fight-against-coronavirus.html
https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/white-helmets-urge-for-support-against-coronavirus-in-syrias-idlib/news
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/484185-white-helmets-coronavirus-syria/

Posted by: Curtis | Mar 28 2020 14:59 utc | 135

Miss Lacy @128
My only real point about Joan Baez is that (unlike Bob Dylan) she was really involved in the anti-Viet Nam war movement and that her excellent song, Diamonds and Rust, is very revealing about the shallowness of Bob Dylan.
I can find nothing about the theft of royalties from Violet Parra’s estate but….
Regarding the album “Gracias a la vida”; Baez originally claimed arrangement for traditional songs (which is ok) but also claimed arrangement for those songs where the composer had died but copyright had not expired (which is not okay) – but not where the composer was living.
The covers of these songs performed by Baez were not really significant enough to be called an arrangement. You can only claim arrangement if the existing copyright holder agrees (and it is just not plausible that an existing copyright holder would concede this; they never do) or the song is out of copyright (70 years after author’s death).
So, the only possible conclusion is that Baez did attempt the theft of royalties from songs on the album “Gracias a la vida” and this included works by Violetta Parra (d. 1967), Vicor Jarra (d. 1973) and Rolanda Alarcon (d. 1973). Given that the album was sold as a “message of hope to the Chileans suffering under Augusto Pinochet” than it seems very cynical of Baez.
You appear to be right, thanks for your post!

Posted by: ADKC | Mar 28 2020 15:34 utc | 137

@ TJ 111
Yes, it is an old trick that they have been doing for centuries. Appear to assimilate and then destroy the host from the inside.
@95 mcohen
The chosenites only support their own and zimmerman’s action are pretty common.

Posted by: Tonymike | Mar 28 2020 15:36 utc | 139

bevin @ 138
well, there’s no doubt that this deliberate or not culling of the workforce will lead to more divisiveness, I mean, 50% unemployment will present the elite with a formidable antagonist, but can they get organized before they get hungry?

Posted by: john | Mar 28 2020 16:24 utc | 141

mcohen @108:
“written any good songs or poetry lately.any Nobel prize stuff?.”
“Bob Dylan” hasn’t either, so what’s your point?

Posted by: corvo | Mar 28 2020 17:04 utc | 143

@lebretteurfredonnant #101
There is a lot of noise in this area.
What seems most credible: MBS is worried that Trump may not win re-election in November 2020 due to coronavirus. At this point, Trump is pretty much the only major public supporter MBS has, due to Khashoggi.
The day before the OPEC+ meeting at which Russia declined to join in another proposed production cut, MBS had his 2 closest rivals arrested.
As for the oil gush war which MBS initiated: I’ve built a simple model looking at the sovereign wealth funds for both Russia and Saudi Arabia, as well as projections based on public statements by both Putin and Saudi Arabia concerning the impact of oil prices on their nation’s respective budgets.
Basically, if oil stays above $30/barrel, Saudi Arabia will run out of money before Russia. At $20-25, Russia will run out first (barely).
Net net, both nations’ budgets (and the rest of OPEC, don’t forget) are a disaster zone at present oil prices.
However, the reason Russia declined to cut production was because of the US oil fracking industry: Russia feels that it cutting oil is literally subsidizing the US oil frackers, and the internal Russian oil companies/oligarchs don’t like that at all.
Note also that Saudi Arabia tried to take down the US oil frackers in 2014 – oil dropped into the 30s then – but this effort failed because China’s economy was doing well and everyone expected oil demand to continue to grow.
However, this time around it may be different. China’s oil demand dropped 20% during its lockdown. Lockdowns in Western nations will drop oil consumption even more, and the US oil (and natural gas) fracking industry was already having severe problem finding new financing for their ongoing negative cash flows.
Of course, the latest Trump coronavirus stimulus package is likely to steer at least some money towards the frackers; that plus Trump announcing the purchase of oil to fill the US Strategic Petroleum reserve didn’t hurt either.
So the MBS oil gush war is part of the effort to build credibility in his push to finally get literally seated on the Saudi throne.
Net net, Russia and Saudi Arabia are scheduled to talk again in June.
At $20-$25 a barrel, it would take about 1.5-2 years to deplete the respective sovereign wealth funds.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 28 2020 17:17 utc | 145

The most important statistic at the moment, but we’ll never get it because doctors hide behind professional secrecy, would be to know how many of the people admitted to hospitals in France belong to the population that has been obliged to keep working in the last 2 weeks.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 28 2020 19:44 utc | 147

@ 148 grieved… thanks again for drawing my attention to it.. it’s like a going out song of a generation that was hugely influential in my own life.. although i am not an american – dylan is an amazing artist, able to evoke all that he does in a song! i recall a long time ago reading his lyrics in a songbook and realizing what a brilliant poet and visionary he is.. if you read his personal autobiography – chronicles – you will come away really appreciating dylan for the frail human he is.. it really isn’t about the person, but about the art… but as you say – this event – the murder of kennedy – is a significant event in a generation and captured by dylan in this song which is like one of those russian nesting dolls that can be opened and continue to reveal more depending on a persons curiousity..
thanks again grieved.. we need more love and humour and less hostility and anger in the world… it is the one or the other that drive our lives and usually a bit of both… i wish you the former more then the later! that is what you typically exhibit here at moa.. thank you..

Posted by: james | Mar 28 2020 20:26 utc | 149

James @146
Everything I said about Dylan is true – you can’t counter those points so you just accuse me of being dishonest and using foul language?
Artists are very selfish. Dylan is particularly so. He used other people including musicians, sucked what he wanted from them and then discarded them. Dylan used the protest movement simply to further his own career and then dropped it when it suited him and in doing so he refused to oppose the Viet Nam war. Dylan betrayed the artform and he betrayed the protest movement – everything was just about personal gain and advantage. But, this is a political blog and, on this blog, Dylan should be judged in political terms, and in this, he is severely lacking.
I am not thrashing art, I am pointing out the truth of Dylan’s shallowness and opportunism. Like most of Dylan’s fans, you just won’t open your eyes and see.
Artists don’t get free rides just because they are artists.

Posted by: ADKC | Mar 28 2020 20:51 utc | 151

@149 james
Yes. As a genre of music, it’s most rightly called a “dirge” I think. I’m listening to it again now, and it’s massively evocative. It’s deeply funereal, processional, a lament for the dead.
As is clear, I care much more about the message than the messenger. Sorry that you’re dealing with people who don’t see that distinction. The message is one of the most powerful things I’ve ever heard, and the execution of it seems to me sublime, fey, impossibly ethereal for such a growling, broken voice, and all told otherworldly in its purity.
The song is pure grief, a hopeless wail of despair, for the man taken yes, but mostly for the manner of the taking, and the nation thrown into decay from the very manner of that act, a decay we see and discuss here every day.

Posted by: Grieved | Mar 28 2020 21:28 utc | 153

@ c1ue
To nitpick:
>> MBS is worried that Trump may not win re-election in
>> November 2020 due to coronavirus. At this point, Trump is
>> pretty much the only major public supporter MBS has
What has Biden or any of his ilk done to make you think they will behave differently as figureheads with respect to foreign assets?

Posted by: oglalla | Mar 28 2020 21:37 utc | 155

maningi 154
Germany is keeping the official coronavirus tally low so that is interesting to hear.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 28 2020 21:46 utc | 157

@154 maningi
I am sad to hear that. Unfortunately I am not surprised, the German government is very good at covering up things, whether it’s Nazis running industry, Thalidomide or the crimes of “immigrants” AKA deliberately imported Takfiri terrorists or the current situation.

Posted by: TJ | Mar 28 2020 21:54 utc | 159

@160 karlof1
I think I still have a Pork Pie hat somewhere, it’s the one I’ll eat if I’m ever very very wrong, with a nice home made chutney of course.

Posted by: TJ | Mar 28 2020 22:02 utc | 161

I have seen a number of interviews with Joan Baez over the years, and in several she spoke in admiring tone and language about Dylan.
Anyone who thinks Dylan did not oppose war should go to Youtube and listen to “With God on Our Side.”

Posted by: AntiSpin | Mar 28 2020 22:27 utc | 163

According to Stanford Professor John Ioannidis, the new coronavirus may be no more dangerous than some of the common coronaviruses, even in older people. Ioannidis argues that there is no reliable medical data backing the measures currently decided upon.
Former Israeli Health Minister, Professor Yoram Lass, says that the new coronavirus is „less dangerous than the flu“ and lockdown measures „will kill more people than the virus“. He adds that „the numbers do not match the panic“ and „psychology is prevailing over science“. He also notes that „Italy is known for its enormous morbidity in respiratory problems, more than three times any other European country.“
The President of the World Doctors Federation, Frank Ulrich Montgomery, argues that lockdown measures as in Italy are „unreasonable“ and „counterproductive“ and should be reversed.
Switzerland: Despite media panic, excess mortality still at or near zero: the latest testpositive „victims“ were a 96yo in palliative care and a 97yo with pre-existing conditions.
The UK has removed Covid19 from the official list of High Consquence Infectious Diseases (HCID), stating that mortality rates are „low overall“.
The director of the German National Health Institute (RKI) admitted that they count all test-positive deaths, irrespective of the actual cause of death, as „coronavirus deaths“. The average age of the deceased is 82 years, most with serious preconditions. As in most other countries, excess mortality due Covid19 is likely to be near zero in Germany.
Beds in Swiss intensive care units reserved for Covid19 patients are still „mostly empty“.
German Professor Karin Moelling, former Chair of Medical Virology at the University of Zurich, stated in an interview that Covid19 is „no killer virus“ and that „panic must end“.
German immunologist and toxicologist, Professor Stefan Hockertz, explains in a radio interview that Covid19 is no more dangerous than influenza (the flu), but that it is simply observed much more closely. More dangerous than the virus is the fear and panic created by the media and the „authoritarian reaction“ of many governments. Professor Hockertz also notes that most so-called „corona deaths“ have in fact died of other causes while also testing positive for coronaviruses. Hockertz believes that up to ten times more people than reported already had Covid19 but noticed nothing or very little.
German virologist Hendrik Streeck argues that Covid19 is unlikely to increase total mortality in Germany, which normally is around 2500 people per day. Streeck mentions the case of a 78-year-old man with preconditions who died of heart failure, subsequently tested positive for Covid19 and thus was included in the statistics of Covid19 deaths.
The site from which I got this has links to document it & material from other countries, too.
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 28 2020 22:48 utc | 165

Penelope @165–
The observations you provide buttress my idea that the crisis began when China yelled Wolf, told the WHO and got its neighbors to clamp down hard and thus cease the vital economic activity generated from that region of the world. I disagree with those you cite, while I applaud China for its actions. IMO, they were correct, well timed and absolutely necessary, medically, geopolitically and geoeconomically.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 28 2020 23:04 utc | 167

karlof1 “China yelled Wolf….well timed and absolutely necessary, medically…”
Crying wolf is normally associated with a deliberate false alarm though judging by your comment you view the danger of coronavirus as real.
If the danger of coronavirus is real, I wouldn’t tie China raising the alarm with a geopolitical move. Giving out aid to other countries however is very much soft power.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 28 2020 23:23 utc | 169

Peter AU 1 @169–
Yes, I realize Peter cried wolf too many times such that he was ignored when his alarm wasn’t false. In my hypothesis, I turned the tale on its head because China had data to show the WHO and its neighbors that its alarm was genuine. I also stated that it didn’t matter whether the event was natural or deliberate; what was important was the alarm itself which sent into motion the closing down of East Asia’s economy where the vast majority of supply sources and chains are located. Recall the Outlaw US Empire and EU’s initial reaction–It’s all a huge nothing burger, certainly nothing to shut your economy down over. Recall the speculation at MoA at the time: Bioweapon attack on China. TrumpCo and vassals were quite happy at that moment before they realized what China shutting down would actually mean for their on the edge of crisis Financial system. They tried to play it all down while the NYSE continued to rocket upward fueled by yet more Fed QE. The questions during February were, Did China believe it was attacked, and Does it really matter if it was an attack since that’s so hard to prove.
As was stated in one of the Global Times editorials I recently linked, China’s reaction was based on its previous experiences with several viral outbreaks. China saw the link between the Army Games and the epicenter of the outbreak, and simply made an assumption. By the end of December, a decision was made to shutdown/lockdown, the cure wouldn’t be nearly as bad as what the virus could do if allowed to just run wild as BoJo wanted it to do. I don’t think there was any consideration given to the fact that the shutdown would affect the global economy, although there was certainly discussion about what to do at home. To be certain, there was discussion with Russia, likely back in December, then it was shared with the Koreas at the same time as WHO.
You and I both well know the very evil nature of the Outlaw US Empire and the lengths it will go to accomplish a policy goal. China has first hand experience with that evil. IMO, they assumed the event wasn’t natural based on that experience. The severity of the shutdown was in response to the evil as China knew it would cause a crisis of the sort we’re seeing. TrumpCo’s reaction, especially Pompeo’s violent reaction to China’s blowback, leads me to believe that the event was planned but clearly didn’t pan-out the way it was anticipated. And as we all know, the only way my hypothesis will be proven correct or invalidated is through direct questioning of TrumpCo and Chinese officials. As I initially wrote, it no longer matters where it began, but it does matter that it affected China and East Asia first as their shutdown kept the rest of the world from stocking up on needed supplies. I hope we both survive this crisis and will be able to look back on it a year from now, assess it, and make some final determination on the sort of event that sparked it all.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 29 2020 0:23 utc | 171

@ 153 grieved… yes.. a dirge is what it is and as you say -“it’s massively evocative. It’s deeply funereal, processional, a lament for the dead.” he mentions st. james infirmary in the lyrics too – another most famous dirge played historically in new orleans and eventually around the world via artists like dr. john, wynton marsalis and etc. etc.. thanks for pointing out it is the message, not the messenger..
@ 170 adkc… i don’t consider myself a dylan fan, but i believe i know good art when i see it… you keep on reiterating how i haven’t addressed your ”’points”’.. jesus… i find it impossible to talk with someone who can’t make a distinction between the art and the person making it while simultaneously wanting to stay focused on trashing the person making it.. i’m not up to the task adkc… you can hold onto your thoughts about dylan and i will continue to appreciate the beauty in his work for what it is.. 2 different paths – each leading in a very different direction and neither one of them having much in common with the other..

Posted by: james | Mar 29 2020 1:51 utc | 173

jackrabbit… i view politicians in a different light then artists… funny play on words on your part though – con artist… like a lot of art, beauty is in the eye of the beholder… i just don’t see the need to trash the artist, but feel free to trash whoever you like… again – it is a different path… if that is what you delight in, so be it… hopefully you find some time to enjoy life and music too.. far be it for me to educate others on anything music or otherwise.. everyone here seems quite capable of thinking for themselves..

Posted by: james | Mar 29 2020 2:09 utc | 175

karlof1 @167
Current test-positive death figures in Italy are still less than 50% of normal daily overall mortality in Italy, which is around 1800 deaths per day. Thus it is possible, perhaps even likely, that a large part of normal daily mortality now simply counts as „Covid19“ deaths (as they test positive). This is the point stressed by the President of the Italian Civil Protection Service.
According to Italian Professor Walter Ricciardi, „only 12% of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus“, whereas in public reports „all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus“. This means that Italian death figures reported by the media have to be reduced by at least a factor of 8 to obtain actual deaths caused by the virus. Thus one ends up with at most a few dozen deaths per day, compared to an overall daily mortality of 1800 deaths and up to 20,000 flu deaths per year.
The mortality profile remains puzzling from a virological point of view because, in contrast to influenza viruses, children are spared and men are affected about twice as often as women. On the other hand, this profile corresponds to natural mortality, which is close to zero for children and almost twice as high for 75-year-old men as for women of the same age.
A new epidemiological study (preprint) concludes that the fatality of Covid19 even in the Chinese city of Wuhan was only 0.04% to 0.12% and thus rather lower than that of seasonal flu, which has a mortality rate of about 0.1%. As a reason for the overestimated fatality of Covid19, the researchers suspect that initially only a small number of cases were recorded in Wuhan, as the disease was probably asymptomatic or mild in many people.
It’s difficult to contest the death certificates in Italy.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 29 2020 2:58 utc | 177

The conversation has to move beyond the immediate response to the virus – questions of social distancing etc – important as that is – to how to prevent the 21st Century “Greater Depression” that this pandemic’s hit to both global economic demand and supply sides is causing.
If we remain in a financialised crony capitalist system of mega-mountains of debt siphoned off by a kleptocratic Wall Street and European banking class – then an impoverished Hunger Games feudalism is our collective future within a year or two.
There has to be a nationalisation of the banking system and a bailout of debts until the virus is gone.
“No bankruptcies, no foreclosure, no evictions”s, must be the mantra!
This is not a typical financial crisis. This is unprecedented.
Emeritus Professor of Economics from Uni of Missouri, in Kansas – Michael Hudson – suggest a ‘debt jubilee’ is the likely only way out.
https://michael-hudson.com/2020/03/corona-debt-jubilee/
Hudson worked for Wall Street banks early in his career and is perhaps the most articulate critic of the kleptocratic system that dominates the Western World, particularly the USA. He advised Iceland in the 2008/9 Global Financial Crisis which was the most bankrupt country in the world at that time – as its banks had speculated heavily in derivatives based on subprime mortgages. It was said Iceland would be in serious debt for the rest of the 21st Century and living standards would plummet. But with Hudson’s advice, Iceland nationalised the banks, jailed over 20 senior bankers for illegal speculation and wrote off the debt and emerged economically stronger than any other European nation in the past decade.
See also these links:
https://dailyreckoning.com/the-only-way-to-avoid-depression/
https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/what-the-government-needs-to-do-next
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/24/500-groups-demand-peoples-bailout-counter-push-wall-street-friendly-coronavirus
And if you’re an Aussie – consider signing this petition:
https://www.change.org/p/scott-morrison-freeze-rents-mortgages-for-the-duration-of-coronavirus?recruiter=957885783&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial&recruited_by_id=22dffd60-6fd6-11e9-a20b-47871ac5040a&utm_content=fht-20953136-en-au%3Av2

Posted by: PJB | Mar 29 2020 5:07 utc | 179

@179 PJB
WHO CARES! People are DYING. We need a f*cking depression again! Too many people are selfishly living beyond their means on CREDIT! Enough with the endless material party! And you had to f*ck up this open thread with your endless links over financial panic??? At least use the html tags, next time.
▪︎▪︎▪︎▪︎
The message in this phenomenon.
Pandemic
Planet
Lockdown
Health workers
Overworked
PPE
Exhaustion
Social distance
Boredom
Isolation
Less Exterior Noise
Quiet
Layoffs
Economic meltdown
Unemployment relief
No traffic
Less contamination
Less control
Eerie
Collective suspension
Powerless
The unknown
Vulnerable
Ventilators
Can’t breathe
Death
in every corner
The tsunami in the Indian Ocean was surreal in its scope of devastation. So was the earthquake in Haiti.
But wars have been the worst.
If only we could be humbled into awareness for good.
There’s so much ignorance and cruelty in this world.
So all this shit will go on and on until there’s nothing left.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 29 2020 5:27 utc | 181

182 user
He did win a Nobel prize but rumour has it,it was for “nasal twang”.something they smoke up in the highlands.with the fishes and owls.I certainly did not like Dylan in my 20’s,listened mostly to grand funk and deep purple.I like his poetic storytelling of the times though his music is dreary.I wrote a poem about soldiers home from the war.I could imagine Bob Dylan in the band with all the others he mentioned in his song
Well In form
Did clap and salute
With hand and foot
A relation in uni form
The passing parade
Lead by a band that played
Music that danced and swayed
I watched in the shade
Soldiers home from the war
As they passed me by
Under a blue sky
Like waves rolling onto the shore.

Posted by: mcohen | Mar 29 2020 10:40 utc | 183

@oglalla #155
Among other things:
1) Will Biden want to be seen keeping up a Trump policy?
2) MBS’ rivals, one of them is the CIA’s preferred man (Najef). The Democrats have made the CIA/intel community their public heroes.
3) Khashoggi. The Democrats also raised a hullaballoo over Khashoggi’s killing. It would look more than a little odd if they cozied up to the guy who ordered it.
Granted, consistency is not a requirement for any politician – but the CIA/Democrat connect is very real.
Nor is “helping democracy” replace MBS in any way inconsistent with US strategic goals in Saudi Arabia: so long as the primary US prerogatives are kept – which clearly neither Trump nor Biden are likely to shift – the specific guy in place doesn’t matter.
That would be the argument you’re putting forward – and it has validity.
Personally, I don’t see MBS being very happy with a pro-CIA Democrat, Biden, as US President vs. Trump – who has been very vocal and faithful in supporting MBS. YMMV

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 29 2020 17:53 utc | 185

@james #186
It was long ago.
I was listening to Wolfman Jack on my crystal radio … “XERF, Coahuila, Mexico, babies!!”. The poetry in Dylan’s song about JFK is elegiac. Elegy is a poetic form. And the song goes beyond mourning for one person, hence all the cultural references to artists who have long since passed. Most younger folks will have no idea who all those people were. The political assassinations of the 60s sent reverberations down through the decades. Yes, we are a long time past that pain; but for some people the memory is still burned into the heart.
It hurts to have one’s illusions broken, especially in the youthful days, when one is still green and vulnerable. Bob Dylan’s music contained a power that broke through our defenses, and turned us toward a different journey. The poet Allen Ginsberg told the story of how he openly wept on a flight from Europe to the US,–when for the first time he heard Dylan’s “It’s All Over Now, Baby Blue”. The occasion of his tears was when he knew the torch had been passed to a new generation of artists.

Posted by: Copeland | Mar 29 2020 22:22 utc | 187

A User #182
Rodriguez was a better songwriter and perfomer than Dylan by a long shot. Wrong side of the tracks though. No pun intended.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 30 2020 7:44 utc | 189

james @188
You say that you aren’t a Dylan fan, but it seems that you are! You want to ignore criticisms of the man while praising his art.
You’re defense of Dylan via his art is akin to those who want to “look beyond” Bernie’s sheepdogging that leads to a dead end and focus on his ‘message’.
The medium is the message. And the ‘message’ of the sheepdog is “f*ck you!” Enjoy the siren song – as long as you don’t actually do anything that will upset the established order.
People trusted Priests too. The believed Priests over their own children. Over their own common sense. They were “men of God” who preached the good word (the “opiate of the masses”!). They played on the notion that they were above reproach. That they would NEVER do anything to cause harm. Except that they did. Repeatedly.
I’ll bet the smallpox-infected blankets left for the American Indians had some nice ‘artistic’ designs. How sad that we focus on Indian deaths instead of the generous cultural enrichment and ethical concern for cold Indians./sarc
News flash: The devil will not show up with a pitchfork. He’ll show up with a teleprompter. Or a bible. Or a warm blanket. Or a guitar.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 30 2020 16:18 utc | 191

A User@182
Yes I remember Remembering Giap, an ornament to the bar indeed. I also recall a guy called Debsisdead.
You are right about Dylan and JFK. The current song is an embarrasment. Its been all downhill since Positively Fourth street.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 30 2020 16:44 utc | 193

james @192
You’re dancing around the point that you can’t always have a full separation between art and artist.
Child pornographers, for example, have tried to take advantage of such a separation. And con artists are essentially a type of performance artist – but we few admire their art (except other con artists).
We expect artists to have a certain integrity. Dylan doesn’t just lack this integrity, he mocks it in his Nobel Prize speech. Can you at least acknowledge that much?
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 30 2020 16:54 utc | 195

@ 195 jackrabbit.. i just read the nobel speech you reference –Bob Dylan’s Entire Nobel Prize Acceptance Speech.. maybe i am dense, but aside from not following dylan that closely and as i was saying – i am not technically what i would refer to as a ‘fan’, i just read it and i am not seeing the mockery in it either..
listen… we can go into the politics of anything – music, artists and etc. included.. this seems to be the basis for some here to pan dylan for being a sell out and a cheap fake revolutionary type… that might be true! regardless of that, i still see the art as something separate… maybe i am not conveying myself well enough.. i will give you that!!
regarding jims comment, it now becomes who you vote for and how you vote… fine.. i don’t know that what jim hypothesizes on dylan is true or accurate either.. it might be.. has dylan ever been challenged to ansewr? or is there some specific statement he made about this? regardless, now it seems dylan because he is jewish – is a huge factor in whether his art has any cred or not.. i don’t think ones cultural background has that much bearing on the art.. if i listen to kurt rosenwinkel, ari hoenig, avashai cohen and etc etc – a wide variety of jazz artists that happen to be jewish… do i need to know how they vote and view everything politically in order to enjoy their music?? or once i find out how they have voted or expressed their ideological outlook, that will be what i use to decide whether to like their music or not?? i really think some folks are missing what i am trying to say.. i don’t know how else to say it…
if you don’t like dylans music as i have said.. that’s fine!!! move on!!! i really like this song he has done… so obviously i am not the right music critic for you all~!

Posted by: james | Mar 30 2020 19:12 utc | 197

Some may recall that Wally expressed the opinion early on that “agent Sam” opened the mayonnaise jar outside the Wuhan BSL4 shop…
The theis may have seemed risible to some. If so, no doubt they’ll find further amusement with the thesis mooted with some plausible basis by Romanoff @ globalresearch dot ca under rubric> “COVID-19: Two Major ‘Waves’ of Global Infection, Towards Global Contamination?”
“…If you can get people focused on asking the wrong question, you don’t care about the answers. The wrong question is whether the original virus came from a bat or a pangolin or a banana, but that’s irrelevant. It wasn’t a bat or a banana that infected the people in Wuhan, but a live person – or a person carrying a live virus in a pail. The right questions to ask relate to the identity of that person and the source of the contents of that pail, and those answers seem to lead us to the USA. Certainly, they are not to be found in China…”
Ok, I said “mayonnaise jar”, not “pail”

Posted by: Walter | Mar 30 2020 19:46 utc | 199