Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 24, 2020

Open Thread 2020-23

News & views ...

Posted by b on March 24, 2020 at 15:13 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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You personal definition of "socialism" is more properly described, in "Western" context, as "democratic socialism"

Posted by: Realist | Mar 26 2020 8:06 utc | 301

Realist

I looked up democratic socialism and had a bit of a look through the wikipage. Much of it is similar to what I think until I come to this...
"Democratic socialism rejects self-described socialist states just as it rejects Marxism–Leninism"

A big part of what I think is that there is no one size fits all. To put a name to it, and put boundaries to it changes it into an ideology.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 26 2020 8:25 utc | 302

American doomsday preppers are getting ready to lock 'n load! And given the current situation their nervousness is understandable.

Coronavirus Panic: The United States Government Must Be Stopped Now

Any country that seeks to control others is a country that seeks aggression. Any country that seeks aggression is a country that seeks war. Any country that seeks war is a country that seeks domination. Therefore, any country that seeks control, aggression, war, and domination is a country that must enslave its people in order to advance this agenda of imperialism. This is a description of the United States of America today. It has become a nation based on control, aggression, war, and domination, and only a totalitarian regime can achieve and hold empire.

Watch closely what is hidden from view. While there is an enormous amount of speculation and studied hypotheses concerning this coronavirus, do not allow the virus hype to cause blindness to the government’s hidden agendas and methods of achieving dominance over the populace. Things are moving very quickly, and every single piece of new legislation, every executive order, and all mandated tyrannical measures instituted at any level of government could have very dangerous underlying consequences, and these will most likely not see the light of day in any mainstream media

Posted by: krypton | Mar 26 2020 9:41 utc | 303

302

Perhaps then "Social Democracy" might be a little more precise

Posted by: Realist | Mar 26 2020 9:48 utc | 304

304
Nope. Use another word alongside socialist to define it and it becomes an ideology.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 26 2020 9:55 utc | 305

#304

Although Gary Barnett is sounding the alarm, in all fairness he is still far from being a "doomsday prepper".

Posted by: krypton | Mar 26 2020 9:58 utc | 306

#303 - "Doomsday Preppers"

This is more like it!

Posted by: krypton | Mar 26 2020 10:04 utc | 307

Saakashvili will save us with his proposal.

What a complete f'ing clown.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 26 2020 10:44 utc | 308

Peter AU1 #302

I looked up democratic socialism and had a bit of a look through the wikipage. Much of it is similar to what I think until I come to this...
"Democratic socialism rejects self-described socialist states just as it rejects Marxism–Leninism"

Good to know that there still one person in the world that trusts what they read at wikipedia.
I used to trust the Murdoch press until I turned 12.

Can I respectfully suggest that if wiki... was on paper you would not use it in a toilet emergency.
You could not use it to start a fire as it is awash with a central office slush funded censorship team that drowns heretics within one minute of them posting.

Ask Craig Murray what he thinks of the bon-a-fides of wiki.

Wikipedia is a deep state propaganda rag. And it publishes good advice on how to bake a lamington.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 26 2020 10:53 utc | 309

Realist #294

Might as well say you lived in fairyland

Thanks for that reference. In New Zealand there was a gang of neo-liberal economic morons referred to as the Rogernomics team. They lived in fairyland. They turned the well balanced democratic socialist economy of New Zealand into an Orc infested swamp.

I am happy to say that I did battle with one of their scabrous orcs that escaped across the ditch and flogged him within an inch of his treacherous life (metaphorically speaking). There is nothing more satisfying than to be sitting in a high level meeting listening to an Orc spitting when confronted by a crime and corruption inquiry and not knowing he is talking to the spear thrower. PIGS!

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 26 2020 11:03 utc | 310

uncle tungsten @308

You know Saakashvili really means business because he has already eaten his tie (it is important to focus upon proper nutrition when facing a crisis).

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 26 2020 11:03 utc | 311

William Gruff #311

Fabulous! 👔 he should shove a 🧦 in it.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 26 2020 11:09 utc | 312

Bill Mitchell weighs in on the financial bailouts:

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=44572

""Major developments across the globe in monetary and fiscal policy keep happening on a daily basis at present. We are now hearing conservatives, who previously made careers out of claims that government deficits would send nations broke and more, appearing in the media now claiming “We need the state to bail out the entire nation”. Not too many economists are pushing the line that the market will deal with this crisis. They all the want the state to be front and centre as their own personal empires (income etc) becomes vulnerable. In a normal downturn there is not much sympathy for the most disadvantaged workers who bear the brunt of the unemployment. Now it is different. This crisis has the potential to wipe out the middle classes and the professional classes. And suddenly, who would have thought – the nation state is apparently back, all powerful and being begged to intervene. It is wake up time. Now no-one can be unclear about the fiscal capacity of the state. They now know that politicians who claim they don’t have enough money to do things were lying all along. They just didn’t want to do them.

No-one can say there is not enough funds to do whatever it takes. We all know now there are unlimited funds. The question must turn to the best way to use them.

In our book – Reclaiming the State: A Progressive Vision of Sovereignty for a Post-Neoliberal World (Pluto Books, September 2017) – we traced the way in which the progressive political forces were duped by the conservatives into believing that the power of global financial capital had rendered the nation state virtually powerless.

As part of this surrender, the Left steadily adopted the mainstream macroeconomics story line and when in government have executed harsh austerity causing untold misery.

And, the financial markets cannot get enough government debt and are not about to kill off the ‘goose’ (golden egg).

There is a massive need for job creation interventions and income support.

The government should announce it will pay the wages of all workers displaced, provide a guaranteed income to those who are unable to work but have nominal commitments such as rent, mortgage payments etc so there is no housing dislocation.""

------------

It's time to reorient from serfdom to an inclusive economy.

Posted by: financial matters | Mar 26 2020 11:14 utc | 313

From Germany with love

The prioritization of patients should therefore be based on the criterion of the clinical prospect of success, which does not mean a decision in the sense of the “best choice”, but rather the refusal to treat those who have little or no prospect of success.

https://dynamic.faz.net/download/2020//COVID-19_Ethik_Empfehlung_Endfassung_2020-03-25.pdf

Posted by: DG | Mar 26 2020 12:05 utc | 314

@ IronForge | Mar 26 2020 1:54 utc | 259

That is certainly an intriguing article from veteranstoday.com:

Breaking: US Athlete/Intelligence Officer in China Games named as Patient Zero for COVID, debunking Trump Rhetoric (updating)
archive.org-ified">https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/25/us-athlete-intelligence-officer-in-china-games-named-as-patient-zero-for-covid-debunking-trump-rhetoric-updating/">archive.org-ified link

The plot thickens..

BTW that other article from VT that you posted referenced this Nature article (emphasis added by me):


Letter
Published: 09 November 2015

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence

Abstract

The emergence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)-CoV underscores the threat of cross-species transmission events leading to outbreaks in humans. Here we examine the disease potential of a SARS-like virus, SHC014-CoV, which is currently circulating in Chinese horseshoe bat populations1. Using the SARS-CoV reverse genetics system2, we generated and characterized a chimeric virus expressing the spike of bat coronavirus SHC014 in a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone. The results indicate that group 2b viruses encoding the SHC014 spike in a wild-type backbone can efficiently use multiple orthologs of the SARS receptor human angiotensin converting enzyme II (ACE2), replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells and achieve in vitro titers equivalent to epidemic strains of SARS-CoV. Additionally, in vivo experiments demonstrate replication of the chimeric virus in mouse lung with notable pathogenesis. Evaluation of available SARS-based immune-therapeutic and prophylactic modalities revealed poor efficacy; both monoclonal antibody and vaccine approaches failed to neutralize and protect from infection with CoVs using the novel spike protein. On the basis of these findings, we synthetically re-derived an infectious full-length SHC014 recombinant virus and demonstrate robust viral replication both in vitro and in vivo. Our work suggests a potential risk of SARS-CoV re-emergence from viruses currently circulating in bat populations.

If you check the authors, it becomes clear that this work was done in North Carolina USA, on the basis of bat virus material kindly donated by the Chinese from Wuhan. Funding generously provided by USAID, the US foreign "aid" tool that keeps on giving.

So much for b's earlier assertions that bio labs would never be involved in such unethical practices and are too poorly funded anyway. Who knows what kinds of even more funky stuff has been going on in those secret US labs all over the former USSR kaukasus countries.

Posted by: Lurk | Mar 26 2020 13:07 utc | 315

(Oops, that archiver.org-ified link above to the VT article didn't work properly. Here it is again, in better form.)


In an earler post I noted that the larger part of the outbreak in Europe stems not from Northern Italy, but from Ischgl, a ski resort in Austria. Here is another report, linking Ischgl to England's patient zero, back in Januari(!):


Dad could be UK's coronavirus 'patient zero' after spreading Covid-19 'since January'

Daren Bland, 50, went skiing at Ischgl, Austria, from January 15 to 19 with three friends before returning to the UK where he passed on coronavirus to his wife and children

Britain’s coronavirus patient zero could be a Dad who caught the killer bug at a ski resort in January.

Daren Bland, 50, could have infected his family a month before the fist case of the disease started in the UK.

He went skiing at Ischgl, Austria, from January 15 to 19 with three friends before returning to the UK where he passed on the infection to his wife and children.

The family live in the Maresfield, East Sussex and the virus spread through the quiet town in the weeks leading up to February half term.

Official tests have confirmed Daren did catch coronavirus while at the resort, which places Britain’s outbreak in January, not February.

An investigation is now underway at the resort amid fears they covered up the outbreak - allowing the killer virus to then spread across Europe, which has seen cases rocket.

IT consultant Daren told the Telegraph: "We visited the Kitzloch and it was rammed, with people singing and dancing on the tables.

“People were hot and sweaty from skiing and waiters were delivering shots to tables in their hundreds.

“You couldn't have a better home for a virus.”

All three of Daren’s friends fell ill after returning to Denmark and the US from the trip.

The dad was then struck down by the disease on January 20, and fell ill the with coronavirus symptoms.

Daren told the Telegraph he was ill for ten days and unable to work after being "knocked for six" and "breathless".

Wife Sarah Bland, 49, said: "I was then ill and so was my youngest daughter.

“My symptoms were a temperature and strange flushes, exhaustion which lasted for nearly three weeks intermittently and total brain fog.

“My daughter had a temperature and persistent cough and was off school for two weeks.

“My eldest daughter felt wiped out for a day but it passed quickly.”

The family have not officially been confirmed as having Covid-19 but are calling for a test so experts can "better understand" the spread of the disease.

I personally find this shift of initial infections back to mid Januari noteworthy, as it ties in with my earlier observation that around the same time, a friend had contracted a double pneumonia, from which she recovered, but was left with pulmonary fibrosis in the aftermath. She had not been skiing, nor even left the country. She had however broken her arm recently, causing her to visit the local hospital.

Posted by: Lurk | Mar 26 2020 13:32 utc | 316

@249 Jackrabbit

Bernie ceded the black vote to the Democratic establishment led by Biden.

OH my gawd, I never read anything so stupid and full of shet!

Bernie's National Co-chair is black and renown in her defense of Civil Rights and never failed to emphasize Bernie's Civil Rights cred as opposed to Biden's terrible record on black rights! The campaign ran ads in South Carolina doing same with Cornel West and Killer Mike in some ads on the subject of Bernie's Civil Rights activism and spoke at his rallies.

His National Press Secretary and spokesperson Briahna Joy Gray is a Harvard-educated black woman from North Carolina.

Keith Ellison who was the 1st African American Representative from Minnesota in Congress for 16 years and today Minnesota's Attorney General is Bernie's Chairperson in Minnesota!

Bernie was the only candidate whose campaign platform mirrored the Poor People's Campaign platform.

And AA Phillip Agnew, co-founder of Dream Defenders, FAMU and Student Coalition for Justice is one of his black outreach advisors.

And I can go on and on!

And don't gimme that crap on his fundraising! Bernie outraised ever other candidate and sometimes his rivals fundraising put together!

You're an ignorant lazy research, lying-ass Bernie hater and it's glaringly clear.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 26 2020 13:33 utc | 317

Jackassrabbit...And Danny Glover, a lifelong activist for black rights is also an advisor who spoke at Bernie's rallies.

He ceded, my ass! You got that shet the lazy, hate-driven way: straight from the fake news establishment spin factory.

You know squat.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 26 2020 13:42 utc | 318

Circe @317: And I can go on and on!

And yet ... somehow, Bernie managed to lose the black vote. By a wide margin.

Black voters: cry me a river.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 26 2020 13:45 utc | 319

I forgot to add Nina Turner's name as his National Co-chair.

@319 Jackassrabbit

Oh buzz off already! Go run your own campaign against the DNC SABOTAGE MACHINE and get back to me on your success. I just trounced your non-existant credibility, halfwit.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 26 2020 13:59 utc | 320

@Peter AU1 #254
Your characterization is incorrect.
China did a full lockdown for 2+ months - they are only now starting to end a few of the restrictions. Thus they were perfectly fine with the enormous economic consequences.
South Korea and Singapore are the ones which didn't do a lockdown.
All 3 above countries have done extreme tracking.
Russia did extreme tracking but no shutdown, but they're about to start a 1 week lockdown - but it is a paid vacation for all government employees. No idea if this is being mandated for the private sector.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 26 2020 14:06 utc | 321

I consider the "socialism" vs. "capitalism" arguments over health care to be nonsense.
In reality, there are sectors which are fully "socialized" in the US: electricity production and transmission, water supply, garbage, sewage management, roads, bridges and a large number of other activities.
K-12 schooling, up until the voucher system, was also "socialized".
However, the reason why these sectors are "socialized" is not political - it is the recognition that these are basic services which should not be subject to the vagaries of the private sector.
The private sector is good for many things, but reliable and consistent operation is not one of them.
Thus the question for health care is whether it should be a utility - a social good - much like clean water, electricity, garbage, sewers, roads etc. or it should be subject to the vagaries of the private sector like less critical services.
Every other 1st world country, every 2nd world country and even 3rd world nations have designated health care as a social good. They aren't all "socialized" to the extreme that Canada has, for example. Nor it is necessary to actually have completely nationalized health care; Japan has a single payer system but costs are kept down because a board of doctors maintains a recommended price list which pretty much every provider follows.
This isn't a question of social justice or fairness - it is a question of whether having a healthier population benefits the nation overall.
Does anyone credible really argue that lower cost, higher access health care leads to a healthier population? Much as free and mandatory K-12 education leads to a more educated population?

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 26 2020 14:15 utc | 322

Dear b,

Referencing the March 19, 2020 topic False Claims About The Novel Coronavirus And How To Debunk Them, I made a comment disputing your claim that SARS-CoV-2 cannot heve been created in a laboratory.

I argue that it looks like you made a false claim. I have no doubt that you did so in good faith, trusting the authors of a Nature article. I will not speculate on the good faith and due diligence of those authors, but I will ask you to consider the arguments and if needed to correct your record on this issue.

Posted by: Lurk | Mar 26 2020 14:19 utc | 323

KBV (National Association of Statutory Health Insurance Physicians) and others state there's testing of ~150,000 people/week - with a great deal of testing done in recently established drive-in facilities.

Posted by: Hmpf | Mar 26 2020 14:22 utc | 324

"And yet ... somehow, Bernie managed to lose the black vote."

Yes, that "somehow" is called paperless electronic voting machines.

I realize that the official explanation is that Black Americans are unusually stupid, even by American standards, but I "somehow" doubt that is an accurate assessment.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 26 2020 14:30 utc | 325

For what is worth -

This local article:
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/03/nj-man-with-suspected-case-of-coronavirus-says-anti-malaria-drug-is-helping-him-recover.html

Links this listing of NIH authorized trials of HCQ as treatment for CV19:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=COvid-19&term=hydroxychloroquine&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=

Posted by: jared | Mar 26 2020 14:49 utc | 326

@William Gruff #325
Sorry, but the notion that the African Americans wanted to vote for a Jewish Connecticut politician vs. a South Carolina politician endorsed by Obama, HRC and the entire Democrat party machine is nonsense.
That demographic has been 100% captured by the Democrat party line for decades.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 26 2020 14:51 utc | 327

William Gruff @325: ... paperless electronic voting machines.

Maybe.

But don't underestimate the Black-misleadership class. A group of craven pols that are tied to the Democratic machine at the hip.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 26 2020 14:51 utc | 328

"That demographic has been 100% captured by the Democrat party..."

Natural slaves, I suppose? I have heard that argument before, I think...

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 26 2020 14:54 utc | 329

@ uncle tungsten | Mar 26 2020 5:23 utc | 282

Re. Trump, Stable Genius

The treatment of and objective for Syria, Yemen, Iran, Venezuela, Nicaragua and Bolivia are quite unjust and disappointing (in measured terms).
But we have:
- Partial withdrawal from Syria
- Withdrawal from Afghanistan
- Pending withdrawal from Iraq
- Revealing of US media as paid for
- Revealing of US "Intelligence" Community as corrupt and political and generally inept
- Bankrupting of the evil empire
- Revealing of the FED as inept and political (as well as serving the masters)
- Revealing U.S. foreign policy as serving primarily Israel
- Pompeo as tragic clown

Now contrast that with O'Bomber, Hillary and Biden.

Posted by: jared | Mar 26 2020 15:07 utc | 330

@uncle tungsten (continued from previous open thread)
You said:

Please tell me if you have understood the term from the beginning, but didn't think it applied to the pack of jackals; or if, after several repetitions by me, you just don't get it. Let me try again.

Many state governments have shaky finances. Illinois is almost bankrupt. Rahm Emmanuel did this horrific deal to privatize Chicago's parking meters. You don't have to be a genius to realize that there is a lot of money to be made privatizing a state government. And Illinois is a prime target. Illinois contains a lot of billionaires who watched and backed Emmanuel. They could simply be a pack of jackals continuing their attempts to ruin and privatize the state of Illinois. A lockdown of only Illinois might result in the privatization of many Illinois services, the shedding of pension liabilities, etc. The jackals don't need a central committee to see that.

Same scenario in NY. I'm less informed about CA, but my point is that it is locally logical in each state for the local jackals to want to lockdown the state to further the disintegration of government.

Hence, flocking behavior.

First - flocking behavior is not a good example either for shared class interests or for describing the behavior of a small number of uber-wealthy. If you mean the PMC class - the 1% to 0.05%, possibly more accurate except that their behavior isn't emergent, it is diktat from a handful. The DNCC response to Bernie is a good example - there's no flocking, but there very much was a concerted effort.

As for what you're saying is: States that need money, declare a lockdown, to precipitate a federal bailout.

Several problems with that:
1) Any federal money doesn't offset the state losses associated with a shutdown. How much is New York spending on nCOV response - testing and what not? What about revenue losses associated with greatly decreased economic activity? New York City and California state both had budget surpluses projected for 2020 - that's almost certainly no longer true.
2) The federal stimulus isn't going to the state governments - it is going to corporations and individuals. So how again is sticking the economic gun to their own state government heads, helping their budget situations? (i.e. the North Korea style of negotiating)
3) Most importantly: why is a lockdown needed to get federal money? Are you saying that the 43 states not locking down, aren't going to get any?

Being a detail guy, I'd like to understand both the specific mechanism and the numbers behind what you are alleging.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 26 2020 15:15 utc | 331

Sometimes, they say, gas-lighting occurs as a natural event. Sometimes not. Behind the natural or unnatural gas-light of CV...the not barking dogs..play.

Dr K's ideas about moral decay being causative of Imperial whatever are rhymed @ FLORES – Rage and Bloodshed II: Trump Defies All Odds & Out-Lefts the Dems. (@ strategic culture)

Some may deny Flores' Thesis and traveling feast.

Wally remembers a spy mission to the SoJ meeting...and imagining dissasociativly being present at De La Paz's speech as he listened to the fellas raffle off a shot-gun.

He wrote a report.

You did read Moon is Harsh Mistress, didn't you? Past is prologue in the revolution. Always.


Posted by: Walter | Mar 26 2020 15:22 utc | 332

Wm Gruff, c1ue, et al.

What would it have taken to break through the Party+BMC (BMC: Black-misleadership class)?

It would mean taking on the Party itself. Denouncing how people are played via identity politics. Embarrassing the Party and the BMC. And proving that he stands with black people by talking about his Civil Rights activism.

That's something Bernie wouldn't do. Because he never really wanted to win. The failure of his insurgency strengths the Zionist/EMPIRE-FIRST establishment. He chose to pull-punches. He chose to be a sheep-dog. Twice.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 26 2020 15:24 utc | 333

clue @ 322

Where do you live? Who are you?

No one who lives in US imagines electric power is socialized. We pay electric bills to corporate bloodsuckers. Garbage collection and waste management are not fully socialized either. Water supply is not fully socialized. Any American knows these things. Without thinking, without hesitation.

Many of your posts smell wrong. You just put your foot in it.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 26 2020 15:45 utc | 334

The US "Justice" department just charged Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro with Narco-Terrorism, what a ridiculous load of garbage. So apparently not allowing your legitimately democratically elected government to be overthrown by a US backed coup counts as "Terrorism", the US is reaching ever lower levels of degenerate gangsterism as their corrupt economic-political elite drive their country into the abyss.

Posted by: Kadath | Mar 26 2020 15:48 utc | 335

@ Posted by: c1ue | Mar 26 2020 14:15 utc | 322

Socialism and capitalism are terms that only make practical sense at the level of sociometabolical mode of reproduction. They can't exist at the same society, at the same time, and they don't apply to microeconomics.

--//--

@ Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 26 2020 8:25 utc | 302

Yes. Democratic Socialism was how the Gaitskellites called themselves during the 1940s-1950s.

At the time, the Cold War was raging on and the ideology of Totalitarianism was at its apex, so by calling themselves "democratic" automatically meant they were not communists.

Posted by: vk | Mar 26 2020 15:49 utc | 336

oldhippie @334: We pay electric bills to corporate bloodsuckers.

Those corporate bloodsuckers are a state-sanctioned monopoly. I think that's what c1ue is getting at when he includes them as "socialized".

There's only ONE set of pipes and wires to your home.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 26 2020 15:53 utc | 337

@oldhippie #334
Electric power are state-sanctioned monopolies, as JackRabbit correctly notes.
In San Francisco as well as a number of other local governments, the electric power is even run by the "community" in a general sense.
However, it would be highly incorrect to term even PG & E as "capitalist" because they don't actually have the ability to do whatever they want, whenever they want.
Of course, you skipped the first line and the conclusion the post: which is that socialism and capitalism are *both* nonsense describing activities which can be considered societal decisions.
If we consider universal electricity access to be a public good - only then does the specific method matter: whether the production is owned by the "people", is a state-sanctioned monopoly, is a free for all etc.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 26 2020 16:07 utc | 338

Extremely important article by Pepe Escobar here that must be--demands to be--read. Do it NOW. It's very serious!!

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 26 2020 16:10 utc | 339

And that's, folks, why MMT is absolute pseudo-science:

U.S. Jobless Claims Are Highest Ever

The USD 2 trn package included USD 600 on top of the unemployment benefits. What happened next? People simply declared themselves unemployed. They included both the really unemployed people, but also people in precarious jobs (including "self-employed").

This package may have avoided a Wall Street meltdown, but it dismantled the USA's social structure, built upon gig economy and sub-subsistence wages.

Posted by: vk | Mar 26 2020 16:11 utc | 340

@vk #336
You said:

Socialism and capitalism are terms that only make practical sense at the level of sociometabolical mode of reproduction. They can't exist at the same society, at the same time, and they don't apply to microeconomics.

This is such an utter load of nonsense as to be risible.
Every society/nation has some level of socialism and capitalism existing in some part of it.
The United States has Medicare - do you consider that to be capitalist? Even as it exists as part of a health care system which is unabashedly capitalist.
Russia has socialized health care, and has for-profit clinics sharing many of the same doctors.
Only Canada disallows private practice of medicine competing with its national/socialized health care system.
In utilities: PG & E is a for-profit corporation operating under regional monopoly granted by the California Public Utility Commission. Yet the Tennessee Valley Authority is a federally owned corporation charted by Congress to provide a range of utility functions to an area within 4 states and small parts of 3 more. Hoover dam was built, is owned and operated by the US Government.
Many more examples abound.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 26 2020 16:16 utc | 341

I really didn't think that murka could go much lower - starving Yemen, blockading Iran, Nicaragua, and Venezuela, but - just
now I read in RT that murka has charged President Maduro as a terrorist and narco-trader. (Whoops. Wrong guy. It should be the colombian preznit) The Evil Empire (thank you karlof1) must be really really desperate - or progressively more and more insane.

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Mar 26 2020 16:17 utc | 342

A petition against the French gov and half a dozen legal cases are now on (started by Collectif C19, a small group of physicians which has quickly expanded)
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/plainte-contre-buzyn-et-philippe-une-petition-recueille-200-000-signatures-25-03-2020-8287983.php
Petition on change.org:
https://tinyurl.com/ucj7pwy

Posted by: Mina | Mar 26 2020 16:17 utc | 343

Bolsonaro trying to tame the Media Beast. He better be careful because he is swimming against the current on this one.

Jair Bolsonaro’ Bizarre Pronouncement - March 24th, 2020

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 26 2020 16:22 utc | 344

- @B: The "Moon of Alabama" logo is missing.

Posted by: Willy2 | Mar 26 2020 16:24 utc | 345

- Correction: The logo is missing on the homepage of this blog.

Posted by: Willy2 | Mar 26 2020 16:26 utc | 346

@ 270 sharon... your post came thru - sometime over the night! thanks for the response.. yes, i understand what you are saying.. that will be a factor for sure, but i personally don't believe that it accounts for all of this.. as someone else has said - we may have to wait for more info to become available...

@ 315 lurk... thanks for that... i too agree that b is too dismissive of this angle...

@ 322 c1ue.. i am a bit confused by your post here.. here is a quote from you - "The private sector is good for many things, but reliable and consistent operation is not one of them." do you therefore believe health care ought to be looked after by the gov't?

@ 342 miss lacy.. the usa is quite capable of going lower... they demonstrate this time and time again..

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2020 16:30 utc | 347

Top five Covid-16. Results as of 26th 2020.
USA soon No.1 overtaking China and Italy. Strongly believe sometime no later than 2 weeks.

1st column: cases. 2nd column: death

China - 81,285. 3,287
Italy - 74,386. 7,503
US - 65,138. 857
Spain - 56,188. 4,089
Germany- 31,554. 149

Posted by: JC | Mar 26 2020 16:31 utc | 348

to Karlof1 - I did read the Pepe Escobar article, as well as the Veterans Today article. As well, there is a link in the Escobar article to a ProPublica article about murkan MDs writing phony prescriptions to stock pile chloroquine for their private use.
(Of course, this is really common in murka - witness the opiod crisis) Something really really evil and ugly is going on.

Think for a moment. Some part of the French gov. steals ALL the chloroquine. France, brits, murkans do not follow the chinese method of testing, tracking and the use of face masks which has been shown to be effective. Plus, the chinese had success with using chloroquine early in the infectious stage which could be discovered, one thinks, only through testing....france, britland, murka have no face masks and no testing supplies.... either monumental stupidity or monumental malevolence...

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Mar 26 2020 16:37 utc | 349

@ 339 karlof1.... thanks.. it goes with this....

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2020 16:40 utc | 350

@ Posted by: c1ue | Mar 26 2020 16:16 utc | 341

No. You're confusing socialized means of production with State's property.

You can have a statized healthcare system that only does the minimum required for the worker not to drop dead so as wages can remain low or even below the line of subsistence. In this case, everybody is paying for the system through taxes, but it is clearly serving the capitalist class.

Posted by: vk | Mar 26 2020 16:49 utc | 351

Looking one step ahead. It is still the time when we should learn from China experience.

Coronavirus: China to suspend most foreign arrivals to block contagion’s spread by SCMP.

That's in line with my thoughts over past 2 weeks, as my country was early locked down with quite low infected count so far and good prospects to bend the curve downwards: Ok, we defeat the coronavirus internally, get new cases to zero and what then? How to operate when the epidemy is raging just behind the borders. It looks not only the borders will remain tightly closed for passenger traffic but internal preventive measures will be loosened only a little and will stay in place for a long time. Over time harsh measures will be inevitably replaced with more testing and contact tracing, which is a building block of a police state. Large part of business cross-border cooperation will be disrupted. Anything that requires travelling abroad, especially services, not limited to low skilled labor will be disrupted for a long time, months, if not years. Even internal travels, might be affected for a longer time. All that screams: 'extra costs', 'loss of income'.

Example: Germany has recently closed borders, even for some Schengen members but Polish seasonal workers will be exempt. Cool, but they will be surely quarantined on return and they will surely ask their employers for proper social and health insurance, without cutting costs. Any takers for the job and for infection risk, any takers for not-cheap-anymore labor?

I am thinking in the context of my country but the same will apply to any country that manages to beat the virus before all it's population is infected. Countries will have to re-learn what self-sufficient means.

I think we still do not realize the extent of long-term economic damage that will be caused by the virus alone in following months, without even considering preexisting economic issues (cycle, debt, QE, oil, etc). These will make things even worse.

Posted by: pppp | Mar 26 2020 17:00 utc | 352

JC #348:

USA soon No.1 overtaking China and Italy. Strongly believe sometime no later than 2 weeks.

Two weeks? It will happen tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.

Posted by: S | Mar 26 2020 17:14 utc | 353

karlof1 @339

It's not just France that is acting against Chloroquine. USA gives lip service to the drug's use against Covid-19 but they don't seem to be serious. In New York, they are said to start trials soon but When? With Who? Everyone is told to not get tested until they are very sick. As Raoult notes, such a delay reduces the effectiveness of the Chloroquine treatment.

Plus, what isn't mentioned much, Chloroquine in low dosages may be a preventative.

Covid-19 Trumped-up CRISIS! Allows Government-assisted Profiteering: Chloroquine vs. Remdesivir

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 26 2020 17:15 utc | 354

james @350--

Thanks for that! Somehow I missed that article when I did my usual website browse. It complements Pepe's quite well. As I commented to Pepe at his Facebook, the timeline entry for 13 Jan is a bright big red flag. This is a huge story that I hope b highlights in his next posting. Also, I should add that it was published today by USA Today that it's possible to test negative for the virus but still be inflected, which points to the ineffectiveness of the test regime and has potentially bad ramifications.

And while I'm writing, I must add that Hudson's been on a roll with three postings at his website since his WaPost op/ed last Saturday. And today's Keiser Report focuses on the connection between the lack of a genuine healthcare system within the Outlaw US Empire and its relationship to Neoliberalism and its oligarchy.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 26 2020 17:26 utc | 355

@vk #351
Sad, you clearly are a hammer looking at nails.
Social Security and Medicare is overwhelmingly for old people - retirees.
These programs do nothing whatsoever to "keep workers working until they drop".

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 26 2020 17:34 utc | 356

@james #347
I believe health care is a public good - not just for morality sake, for the overall benefit of a society.
The private sector is crap for such things because:
1) It will seek to extract all the benefit for itself rather than the consumer (see: US Health care overall)
2) It hates operating in areas where it can't pick and choose for maximum profitability (See: Rural postal services before the USPS, "pre-existing condition" denials before Obamacare, etc etc)
3) For various reasons, it isn't even necessarily good at keeping services available. Uber and Lyft have many, many hours of app downtime every year despite it being literally the lifeblood these supposedly for profit companies. Uber in particularly has been caught cutting corners on driver screening, outright evading laws, etc.
I'd throw Boeing into this mix as well: take a company once known for quality civilian aeroplane manufacturing and turn it into literally a basket case in a single reconditioned aircraft rollout.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 26 2020 17:39 utc | 357

>Nothing really wrong with Peter AUs view of socialims.

Whatever happened to the idea that the workers would control the means of production? For some reason I am thinking that is a key part of Marxism, or perhaps only the anarcho-syndicalist types think that workers should have a bigger role than, "Yes, Boss"?

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 26 2020 17:39 utc | 358

Terrorists blow up al-Kafeir bridge in Idleb


US occupation brings in a new convoy loaded with logistic equipment via illegitimate al-Walid crossing in Hasaka


People of Hamo village and army personnel intercept US occupation convoy and force it to retreat


President al-Assad decrees general amnesty for crimes committed before March 22, 2020


Drug-taking and planting in positions of Turkey-backed terrorists in Hasaka, Raqqa countryside


Terrorists breach cessation of hostilities again by targeting two towns in Idleb countryside
This report is rather interesting for the included picture than for the text content. The image depicts two main roads and a large crater from a huge detonation. In other SANA reports you can see images of captured weaponry, among them large quantities of explosives. The western foreign legion must have plenty of supply. Munition, tanks, explosives, drugs, etc. This was the case many years ago already, but it is still happening. The Syrian state appears helpless to confront these supplies.

Posted by: Phil | Mar 26 2020 17:40 utc | 359

Phil @359--

Canthama today mentioned new SAA assault forces are massing to complete the securing of the M-4. Jump-off time unknown, but likely within next 72 hours.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 26 2020 17:51 utc | 360

@ Posted by: c1ue | Mar 26 2020 17:34 utc | 356

But then you're talking about Marx's wage theory. It has nothing to do with socialized means of production.

According to Marx, wages have a floor and a ceiling: the former is the level of biologial subsistence of the worker, the later is the profit rate of the capitalist.

The true wage is determined by class struggle: in a scenario where the working class is stronger, wages tend to get closer to the ceiling; and closer to the floor when the capitalist class is stronger. Wages, therefore, fluctuate, but within a band.

In the period that ranged from 1929 and 1945, the working classes of the West enjoyed unparalled strength. It was thanks to this political pressure that some First World countries' working classes managed to force their capitalist classes to install a welfare state. But, when the welfare state is very good, it is, in practice, part of the worker's wage: that's why the unions in the UK, during the post-war period, used the term "social wage" to designate the welfare state.

However, the welfare states were easily dismantled after the first major crisis after the post-war (oil crisis of 1975). That wouldn't be possible in a true socialist system, where the "workers" (producers) have total control (i.e. absolute political power) over the means of production.

Posted by: vk | Mar 26 2020 17:54 utc | 361

For the uninformed on mixed economies, which, by the way, incorporate elements of Capitalism & Socialism. And, is practiced around the globe by most advanced economies, even the ones we're taught are fully Socialist.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/mixed+economy

ie;, Venezuela, which is demonized CONSTANTLY by MSM, as a fully Socialist nation, that really isn't.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/important-facts-related-to-the-economy-of-venezuela.html

An excerpt;
Venezuela has a mixed economy, which means there are both privately-owned and state-owned businesses. Some of the state-owned organizations are run by employees under a co-management plan started by Hugo Chavez. With this work plan, employees develop management policies and annual budgets. These employees also vote for managers and department heads.

Its nominal gross domestic product (GDP) for 2015 was $131.9 billion. The nominal GDP per capita is approximately $4,262 annually. The labor force is made up of 14.34 million people. The largest percentage of these individuals work in social and personal services (31.4%). This is followed by the service industry (23.4%), manufacturing (11.6%), and construction (9%).


"

Posted by: ben | Mar 26 2020 17:55 utc | 362

US DOJ presser:
""Maduro and the other defendants expressly intended to flood the United States with cocaine in order to undermine the health and well-being of our nation. Maduro very deliberatively used cocaine as a weapon,"

They identified a small faction of FARC as running a cocaine sideline, noted this small faction has camps in a remote area of Venezuela, and therefore concluded the Venezuelan government must be the kingpins since the operation runs in part from their territory. It's obviously crazy and a flawed judicial theory drenched in hypocrisy, but the takeaway is the huge bounties (up to $15 million) designed to appeal to opportunistic players during a coronavirus crisis. Guaido is calling for street protests.

Posted by: jayc | Mar 26 2020 18:01 utc | 363

@355 karlof1

I think Pepe Escobar will emerge as one of the most important independent journalists of this fraught moment in history when the whole world, and its interrelations of power, pivot on the COVID-19 event.

His essay on the twisted French affair that you cite ties in a number of sources he's been partially citing and checking in with over the last couple of months, as you know from reading his Facebook page. There is much more to come here for sure.

Escobar was also one of the first important journalists that I noticed coming down unreservedly on the side of this event's being a bio-warfare attack on China. His takes continue to become confirmed as the days pass, and perhaps this take will also.

Escobar manages to parse the situation all the way from the philosophy of human freedom to the venality of covert geopolitics, through the economics of organized crime and political corruption. Whether planned or simply opportunistic, the situation is made for his ranging mind to encompass. Not to sound like a fanboy, but credit where due.

Just a side note.

~~

ps...I'm here only sporadically but I home in on your comments as well as a few others.

Posted by: Grieved | Mar 26 2020 18:01 utc | 364

@ 363; Righhhttt, the U$ DOJ would never mislead us.

Posted by: ben | Mar 26 2020 18:12 utc | 365

An excerpt for a Ring of Fire article;

"Bernie Sanders is the only reason that the $2 trillion stimulus package passed by the Senate has anything decent in it. His refusal to allow passage of the bill until Republicans agreed to extend unemployment benefits saved what would have otherwise been a complete piece of trash. He delivered one of the most passionate and down-to-earth speeches in recent memory, and this speech might just save lives in the end. Ring of Fire’s Farron Cousins discusses this."

https://trofire.com/2020/03/26/bernie-sanders-gives-fiery-speech-defending-working-class-saves-stimulus-bill/

Sheepdog maybe, but he still hasn't urged his minions to vote for Joe.

Posted by: ben | Mar 26 2020 18:25 utc | 366

Wow! This is big. Tara Reade who worked for Joe Biden in the 1990s is claiming that Joe Biden sexually assaulted her when she was in her 20s working for him then, put his hands up and down her thighs and tried to forcibly kiss her. Times up and MeeToo gave her all the wrong reasons for not being able to help her and she is being attacked online as a Russian plant. Too bad for them she told someone at the time and sounds very credible.

joe biden sexual assault

Watch the Rising video at the end with Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti addressing this news.

My hunch was right! Told ya Joe was headed for trouble after mid-March. And I'll bet you anything there's more trouble headed his way.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 26 2020 18:26 utc | 367

You have to read the transcript of Tara Reade's detailed description of the assault by Joe Biden. It's worst than I wrote previously.

Tara Reade description of assault

Posted by: Circe | Mar 26 2020 18:38 utc | 368

Circe @ 367&368;Soooo, just another scum-bag. Maybe he should consult the scum-bag in chief on how to deflect these charges.


Posted by: ben | Mar 26 2020 19:06 utc | 369

Thanks for the link, Circe @368. The other day, Bob Lefsetz quoted the WSJ (YIKES):

"The culture of social promotion and participation trophies is not, populists feel, confined to U.S. kindergartens and elementary schools. Judging by performance, they conclude that people rise in the American establishment by relentless virtue-signaling; by going along with conventional wisdom, however foolish; and by forgiving the failures of others and having their own overlooked in return…

Attacks on the establishment aren’t always rational or fair. They can be one-sided and fail to do justice to the accomplishments the U.S. has made in the recent past. Populism on both the left and the right always attracts its share of snake-oil salesmen, and America’s current antiestablishment surge is no exception. But the U.S. establishment won’t prosper again until it comes to grip with a central political fact: Populism rises when establishment leadership fails. If conventional U.S. political leaders had been properly doing their jobs, Donald Trump would still be hosting a television show.”

Posted by: spudski | Mar 26 2020 19:07 utc | 370

@ 355 karlof1... thanks and thanks for the additional links! i try my best to stay on top of everything, but i am guilty of not!!! cheers james.. i agree with @ 364 grieved!

@ 357 c1ue.. thanks c1ue! we agree on this then.. i very much agree with you on this!

circe / ben.. it is unfortunate sanders is not the lead guy for the dems.. if i was living in the usa based on what little i know! - i would be pushing for him too..

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2020 19:48 utc | 371

I'm really past caring about academic studies and experts in whatever field and politicians rolling out the bandwagon - what is happening is inhuman - we are social creatures and this lockdown (purely for the benefit of the elites) is outrageous, unnecessary and criminal in my view - where do we go from here? There's no alternative out there - people are fighting other people, the law is an ass and the tension and anger are mounting - what's next - the complacency amongst alt-media is as shocking as the morons following the government line - FFS get a life!

Posted by: bob | Mar 26 2020 20:02 utc | 372

@ bob.. well, some of us see it differently then... i will just vegetate at home until the coast is clear, lol...

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2020 20:17 utc | 373

#337 & 338

What you been smoking?

Back in #322 electric power in USA is described as fully socialized. Utter BS. You will have to shovel harder to convince me the both of you are not trolls. And poorly paid ones based outside US. No US resident would say what you just said.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 26 2020 20:29 utc | 374

Walter @332--

Read Flores's #2 and am more convinced than after #1, which I need to reread and then do #2 again followed by some thinking. Highly suggest first half of today's Keiser Report and agree that Larry Summers ought to have a price on his head instead of President Maduro for Summers is a genuine Enemy of the People, along with his cohorts.

Grieved @364--

One can do a lot worse than being a Pepe Escobar "fan boy"! I was hoping b could work that information into his current article, but it appears it didn't fit within its limited scope. Given the frenetic pace the Outlaw US Empire is trying to drive events at, it seems clear it's trying to cover its tracks in its own manufactured chaos. Pompeo's non-stop smearing/slandering of China may well earn him a bullet based on these two articles. IMO, such an act would be of great service to world peace.

Was reviewing with the wife why John Lennon and Yoko Ono were seen as great threats to the Outlaw US Empire, events that happened before her time and some I hadn't reflected on in years. I tried to tell her why they chose to hold a presser from their marriage bed. I'm convinced he was assassinated by the USG because of the moral threat he posed. Imagine still constitutes a huge threat which is why ClearChannel and others ban it from their stations.

I hope you'll read Flores's essays and provide your take on their content and his overall thesis. Hope your bunker's comfortable!

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 26 2020 21:02 utc | 375

oldhippie @374 Back in #322 electric power in USA is described as fully socialized.

In most places in USA, it's a regulated, state-sanctioned monopoly. It might not be fully socialized but most Americans wouldn't know the difference.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 26 2020 21:18 utc | 376

oldhippie @ 374

I come to MoA for nuance. Its one of the few places that hasn't descended into brawling tribalism. A place where people can come from a communist POV and not immediately be banned.

Neither c1ue and jackrabbit are trolls. I could call you a troll for saying that about two long time contributors; but I won't. Because I want to hear some nuance. So, could you please back off the wild accusations (not a US resident).

They have been having the capitalism vs socialism discussion for quite a long time. They are referring to their past context. Since b picks the topics, the discussion happens where it happens; like in this thread.

You are showing up in the middle of something you haven't participated in and demanding to run the show. Like some substitute teacher who doesn't know what the regular teacher allowed the pupils to do.

Technically, c1ue is absolutely correct. Most electric and water utilities are regulated. Just like the land line phone companies are regulated. Technically, the government gets to hold hearings and mandate rates and practices. Of course, in reality, most regulators above municipal level have pretty much been captured by the corps they are supposed to regulate.

I liked your reports on what was happening in Chicago. They sounded measured and objective. They had nuance. Please put out the fire in your hair. If you can listen, you can at least learn other folks' POV.

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 26 2020 21:21 utc | 377

@ 375 karlof1.. that flores essay is good... he seems to think we are closer to a full on collapse then i tend to believe.. but i don't rule it out.. so many people have been run over by the dem party direction and it makes sense trump would move to the left to capture this discontent, although i doubt many will vote for him.. still, the socialist moves he is adopting from yang are a fascinating window into the changes covid 19 is directly bringing about... i am not looking at the details, but it sounds as though the bailout here is different then the one from 2008 based on flores article.. no one is talking about these moves trump is making, so i am surprised to read them in his article..

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2020 21:23 utc | 378

@ john... i wouldn't worry about the language from regular posters.. at the same time i get your point.. most of the posters here are pretty chill which is a good thing..

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2020 21:24 utc | 379

Business as usual for the US

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-huawei-tech-chips-exclusive/exclusive-u-s-prepares-crackdown-on-huaweis-global-chip-supply-sources-idUSKBN21D2E4?il=0

The move comes as ties between Washington and Beijing grow more strained, with both sides trading barbs over who is to blame for the spread of the disease and an escalating tit-for-tat over the expulsion of journalists from both countries. Under the proposed rule change, foreign companies that use U.S. chipmaking equipment would be required to obtain a U.S. license before supplying certain chips to Huawei. The Chinese telecoms company was blacklisted last year, limiting the company’s suppliers.

Yesterday in the news, France released an Iranian the US was wanting to extradite. There was also the news of France pulling its troops out of Iraq. France looks to be turning away from the US.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 26 2020 21:28 utc | 380

karlof1 | Mar 26 2020 21:02 utc | 375

Given the frenetic pace the Outlaw US Empire is trying to drive events at, it seems clear it's trying to cover its tracks in its own manufactured chaos.

Not only covering its recent tracks, here's Pompeo again in early March when the ICC Appeals Chamber rules to proceed with the investigation onto torture in Afganistan.

This is a truly breathtaking action by an unaccountable political institution, masquerading as a legal body (...) The United States is not a party to the ICC, and we will take all necessary measures to protect our citizens from this renegade, so-called court.

Prof. Marjorie Cohn reminds us here of the "American Service-Members' Protection Act" (as it became known: U.S.: 'Hague Invasion Act' Becomes Law" - HRW).

Pompeo does not limit himself to insult China under the COVID-19 crisis, he finds time to threaten the world with a straight face. I'm not so sure that bullet would be stamped chinese.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Mar 26 2020 23:57 utc | 381

@375 karlof1, also james @378 - and also john brewster @377 because here's some nuance for ya (said in solidarity)

karlof1, I have been reading the Flores pieces and part #3 promises to be good because he'll discuss the coming labor movement. The ways and means of dealing with the ruling criminals of the DC Swamp are the great problem faced by the people of the US, and any advice would be welcome. I do accept all the advice from all revolutionaries past and present who insist that it takes a labor movement in solidarity to throw down an existing regime, and nothing much else can do it.

What to say about Joaquin Flores? I used to admire his multi-layered analyses of Russian planning in Ukraine, and other subjects that he brought his considerable intellect to. He is a man who essentially is talking about paradigms, and channeling forces and dynamics in his models. He's essentially a modeler I think, and a gifted one at that. He's one of those people who could use a break in time to have two years to elaborate everything he could say about a single moment.

There was for me an interlude when Flores and his Fort Russ seemed to be going both for clickbait and adversarial positions. The analysis suffered and I stopped reading that site. The excellent Ollie Richardson split from that group and founded the excellent StalkerZone, and Richardson when pressed had nothing good to say about Flores. J Hawk of course left Russ very early and went to (co-founded maybe?) SouthFront. So there was a lot of excellent talent that found common cause over Ukraine and the rise of Russia, and went different ways.

It seems in any revolutionary period the players turn sides and present different facets or aspects and allegiances every year or two during the long road up to victory - and after, of course. I can easily put aside any way they used to appear to me, if they appear differently now. I had a similar thing with Korybko and he could easily begin to write things that blow me away at any time - perhaps already has and I haven't seen it.

Well, you asked what I thought so there it was. I hope none of this sounds condescending. One has to parse one's authors even as one parses their works. What matters is not so much their credentials from the past but whether they can do any good with the job at hand.

I started reading Flores again with this current serial. Strategic Culture kept posting him, and this subject was too compelling not to look at. I noted that you were fired up by some of his thinking too, and I know where your aspirations lie. I hope his modeling can do us some good - I look forward to your rereading and mulling over his thoughts. But, as james also thinks, I don't believe what Flores is writing is a set of time-sensitive predictions you should take to the bookies to lay a bet on. He's seeing paradigms, trends and forces - and he's very good at seeing these. How long these things will take, is another matter. We look for people like Escobar, Crooke and Cook to zero in on, and alert us to, the timeliness of things. But Flores is good at the long term, and he seems to be hitting on some things right now.

My two cents, only since you asked.

Posted by: Grieved | Mar 26 2020 23:57 utc | 382

john brewster has suggested a dire scenario whereby US Govt does a controlled demolition of what passes as democracy.

I have previously deemed this to be very unlikely but I'm now raising the prospect to 'possible'.

Trump's push to return people to work shows that "flatten the curve" is viewed as the first step to defeating Covid-19 but an excuse to return people to work. That mindset means the Administration would be happy with a slow-motion train wreck simply gets less attention than a fast train wreck.

More here: ‘Flatten the Curve’: A Prescription for Failure

On the new thread, there's speculation that Gov. Cuomo might replace Biden as the Democratic Party nominee. But it seems just as likely that the election is canceled/postponed.

The Olympics have been postponed for one year. But the US election schedule makes it likely that any postponement would be for 2 years (2022).

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 27 2020 0:25 utc | 383

2020 US is 1989-90 Soviet Union. Rather than going down peacefully, we see the US attacks on China, Iran and Venezuela. Corona virus pandemic quite likely a calculated move by US, a strategy to move to a new racket and retain power over much of the world.
i wouldn't put it past Trump to launch strikes against Venezuela and Iran while the worlds attention is taken up by the pandemic and their collapsing economies.
France is pulling away from the US now, perhaps other countries will also, but watching the US, the Trump admins actions, we are at a ver dangerous point in time. It is now make or break for the US and if they go down they will go down fighting. US is not the least interested in letting go of power and taking a soft landing.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 27 2020 0:28 utc | 384

Grieved @382--

Thanks for your reply and appraisal. Still need to do more reading and assessment. I think you and others will benefit from this several years old Keiser Report dealing with the Bond Market Bubble and why it continues to exist. You only need to watch the first 13 min.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 27 2020 0:59 utc | 385

ditto.. thanks @ 382 grieved...

@ 385 karlof1... that report is from aug 2017... what did you get from it??

Posted by: james | Mar 27 2020 3:25 utc | 386

S #353

And the U.S. is now #1:

    Country       Confirmed   Deaths   Tests

U.S. 85,612 1,301 579,589 as of March 26
China 81,340 3,292
Italy 80,589 8,215 361,060 as of March 26
Spain 57,786 4,365 355,000 as of March 21
Germany 47,278 281
Iran 29,406 2,234 80,000 as of March 22
France 29,155 1,696 101,046 as of March 24
Switzerland 11,811 192 91,400 as of March 26
U.K. 11,658 578 97,019 as of March 25
...
Russia 840 3 223,509 as of March 26

Italy will overtake China today.

Sources:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing

Posted by: S | Mar 27 2020 8:24 utc | 387

S #353

And the U.S. is now #1:

    Country       Confirmed   Deaths   Tests

U.S. 85,612 1,301 579,589 as of March 26
China 81,340 3,292
Italy 80,589 8,215 361,060 as of March 26
Spain 57,786 4,365 355,000 as of March 21
Germany 47,278 281
Iran 29,406 2,234 80,000 as of March 22
France 29,155 1,696 101,046 as of March 24
Switzerland 11,811 192 91,400 as of March 26
U.K. 11,658 578 97,019 as of March 25
...
Russia 840 3 223,509 as of March 26

Italy will overtake China today.

Posted by: S | Mar 27 2020 8:24 utc | 388

@vk #361
You're evading the question.
You stated there can be no co-habitation in a society between socialism and capitalism.
Social Security is clearly not capitalism.
You then attempt to distract by trying to position Social Security as (not socialist) because it has nothing to do with work. But actually it does - it takes contributions from workers, when they work, so that they can enjoy some stability after they retire.
It is the literal ownership of production (income) into uses for the workers benefit.
Fail.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 27 2020 12:50 utc | 389

@oldhipper #334
I am always struck by how easily the intellectually lazy and/or ignorant and/or stupid are so quick to throw the troll label around.
Your lack of understanding of both what actually exists in the United States and the factual/historical basis behind the terms socialism and capitalism - that's not my problem.
That's yours.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 27 2020 12:52 utc | 390

@john brewster #382
Technically means I am correct.
And more importantly, it means that there still exists a legal and functioning avenue by which "the people" can impact outcomes.
If "the people" don't do so, whose fault is that?
It isn't like everything was great, then suddenly went south. If people are angry and have been angry for a long time - the failure to do something about it when the capability exists is nothing less than abrogation of responsibility.

Have you ever read a public utility meeting minutes, much less participated in a public hearing?
If you haven't, then you have no basis whatsoever to complain because you have failed to exercise your own rights - either through ignorance or laziness.

This is a very difference situation than privatization. With privatization, there is no avenue at all - the "shareholder rights" nonsense included.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 27 2020 12:57 utc | 391

Wally spoke on other thread to gas-lighting of churches and the state of exceptionalist dream... And A Brief History of the State of Exception
by Giorgio Agamben

An excerpt from State of Exception (University of Chicago). See that post, if you like.

The Flour Mill whistle calls...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 27 2020 13:20 utc | 392

@ Posted by: c1ue | Mar 27 2020 12:50 utc | 388

What defines which mode or social reproduction in a given society is not what it is as a whole, but which is dominant. Capitalism is any society where capital is the dominant mode of production.

That's why Marx's book is called Capital, and not Capitalism. Capitalism is a society where capital is dominant - doesn't mean it is necessarily the only one.

We live in a capitalist world. That means capitalism is the ultimate regulator of the way the world reproduces. But China, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam are socialist. But we don't live in a socialist world.

China is socialist because communal ownership is the dominant mode of social reproduction of the country. Yes, there is capital in China - but it is not dominant.

Statized property has always existed in capitalism. You have roads, railroads, military, law, etc. etc. They exist because if one capitalist was to be the owner of any one of them, he would basically become the dominant capitalist, which would collapse capitalism sooner than later. They are properties so important to the physical survival of capitalism than an exception must be made, the ownership of them being given to a "neutral" arbiter (the State). But

Statized property still needs to operate by capitalist rules: the UK's NHS, for example, must purchase what it needs in the free market - at a profit to the seller - and must hire labor force at a wage. When its funds are cut, it can't survive without money, and withers and/or collapses. The only difference is that, as the legal monopoly, it has more leverage in negotiating prices in the free market - but that's a property of a capitalist monopoly, not of a socialized means of production.

That is why the NHS is collapsing amid the COVID-19 crisis, while the Chinese healthcare system got stronger: the first is a glorified capitalist monopoly disguised as a socialist experiment, the second is a truly socialized means of production, which will receive whatever it needs, whenever it needs.

Posted by: vk | Mar 27 2020 14:23 utc | 393

So CNN, one of Joe Biden's promotional cable channels, is hosting a Town Hall just for him with tool of tools Anderson Cooper giving him passes.

You can be sure Biden won't be asked about Tara Reade's very credible sexual assault allegations.

Oh, and CNN, trying to prop up Biden and make him relevant again, after he's been hiding away and then emerging with his pathetic, anemic response to the Coronavirus pandemic next to Bernie Sanders' muscular response in the Senate and multiple times online, have not announced a Town Hall for Bernie (to be fair and impartial).

It seems that ol'grabby Joe needs a major lift right now, while Sanders is looking more and more Presidential without the help of media props.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 27 2020 15:48 utc | 394

This just in ...

Trump recommends socialist distancing.

VP Pence declared: "It's aspirational."

Presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden agreed, saying: "We don't need radical change. Look, when we work together, there's nothing we can't do."

Bernie Sanders was not immediately unavailable for comment (possibly because contacting him consisted of a cryptic email to info@bernie2020.com 15-seconds before the story ran).

=

PS It's humor.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 27 2020 15:55 utc | 395

@395 Jackrabbit 🙄Zzzzzzz

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Every day you make this saying more true.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 27 2020 20:11 utc | 396

james @386--

Hi James! I used the search words--bond market bubble ending keiser--as I knew they'd done a show about it. What I was really after were some charts like the ones they've used over the past month that illustrates the situation. Most 401-K plans are tied to the bond market, and the best move currently is to turn it into cash--Rubles or Yuan--and wait out the carnage. There's a huge shortage of physical gold and silver; if you can get the metal--not the paper proxy--buy it.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 27 2020 21:14 utc | 397

Super thankful to b for providing this space. I sometimes think that there should be a hard copy of this entire space and all that it represents.Thanks to all who bring their thoughts here.

Karlof1 in regards to Flores Strategic Culture articles. I like the idea of politically active groups with diverse political upbringing coalescing into a super majority. I wish us ALL luck on withstanding the violence to come and hope its enough to unite the sides into a permanent one; as the different parts are more likely to spin off and cry havoc amongst themselves once the common enemy is vanquished. I have hope of a new way on the horizon. Thanks so much to you and your commitment to making each moment/move of Empire a teachable one

Circe I don't suppose you now the old saying abut pointing fingers?

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Mar 28 2020 13:34 utc | 398

Tannenhouser @398--

Thanks for your reply and compliment! It would be nice not to have to make such commentary, but that's not our reality, so I will continue to soldier-on!

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 28 2020 16:30 utc | 399

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