Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 24, 2020

Open Thread 2020-23

News & views ...

Posted by b on March 24, 2020 at 15:13 UTC | Permalink

next page »

According to the World Socialist Webstite, Trumps proposed stimulus bill provides hundreds of billions to be provided to businesses at the discretion of Treasury Secretary Steven Mnunchin who is also authorized to waive prohibitions against stock buybacks. The names of companies being provided funds will not be identified. This gives one man unprecedented power without oversight. The companies that bought back stock to enrich their executives can do so once again at taxpayer expense. The Dow is up two thousand points.

Posted by: David | Mar 24 2020 15:29 utc | 1

Money. We need a monetary system which mirrors hydro lakes as they effortlessly spin turbines, creating electricity to power our world. Imagine then a 'lake', formed not from water, but from droplets of human life force and human skills, a 'lake' which represents the monetary potential of our nation.

In the presence of this 'lake', money can be defined as 'human life-force, traded within a marketplace', the same monetary unit used by the hunter-gatherers for at least two million years, the same life-force monetary concept already used by the other two million species upon our planet. The definition for money becomes, 'the distance that a typical human being, walking at the normal speed of 5 km/hr, will cover in one hour, that is 5000 metres'. This is a measure of the human psyche, human biology, time, distance, and the speed of light, as a metre is a measure of the speed of light within a vacuum. The 'lake' of monetary potential can now be released through the 'turbine' of the nation's Treasury, owned by the sovereign parliament, to power our economy, free from the private debt bankers and their four financial demons, those of debt, interest, taxation, and inflation!

This monetary 'lake' fulfills Aristotle's five definitions for authentic money, to be portable, durable, divisible, intrinsically valuable, and easily recognisable. This 'lake' also fulfills the economists' dream for a monetary system, functioning with the most frugal technological costs, a monetary system which is 100% reserve so that it is no longer a pyramid structure of assets and debts, always teetering upon the edge of financial collapse.

Welcome then to Aristotle's monetary 'lake', a financial system which could change our world and create an incandescence within the human heart!

Posted by: Ric G | Mar 24 2020 15:32 utc | 2

As virus cases surge, Tokyo governor says lockdown may be only way to stem rise

What a coincidence: the day the Japanese PM announced the 2020 Tokyo Olympics is postponed to 2021, Tokyo governor announces the situation is grave and a lockdown will probably be needed.

It almost seems the Japanese government was witholding information about the number of cases in order to force the Olympics to happen as scheduled!

This article may well be dead on arival.


Arizona man dies thanks to cloroquine:

Homem morre nos Estados Unidos com remédio divulgado por Trump e Bolsonaro

I hope that man isn't an MoA reader, because, if he was, then the "miracle drugers" here have just killed a person.


As I predicted, social-democracies will win the war against the COVID-19 - at the cost of their own existence:

Korean economy on course toward recession

W100 tril. aid package set for economic stimulus

Social-democratic governments are naturally ill-prepared for these kind of crises. They will hemorrhage funds to the private sector, which will be fine or even get out richer. Public debt will skyrocket. The welfare state will deteriorate further.

Posted by: vk | Mar 24 2020 15:35 utc | 3

Mortality monitoring in Europe

Note concerning COVID-19 related mortality as part of the all-cause mortality figures reported by EuroMOMO

Over the past few days, the EuroMOMO hub has received many questions about the weekly all-cause mortality data and the possible contribution of any COVID-19 related mortality. Some wonder why no increased mortality is observed in the reported mortality figures for the COVID-19 affected countries.

The answer is that increased mortality that may occur primarily at subnational level or within smaller focal areas, and/or concentrated within smaller age groups, may not be detected at the overall national level. This even more so in the pooled European-wide analysis, given the large total population denominator. Furthermore, there is always a few weeks of delay in death registration and reporting. Hence, the EuroMOMO mortality figures for the most recent weeks must be interpreted with some caution.

Therefore, although increased mortality is currently not being observed in the EuroMOMO figures, this does not mean that increased mortality does not occur in some areas or in some age groups, including mortality related to COVID-19.

Posted by: Allen | Mar 24 2020 15:38 utc | 4

24 deaths in canada so far. most in BC which shares a border with washington state. around 2,100 cases country-wide in a population of 37.5 million.

so of course ontario and quebec just need to shut down. quebec is going to "lock down" for 3 weeks. seems a bit much but then the french are a bunch of drama queens.

as usual, a lot of "experts" have been trotted out in the media to prepare the unwashed masses for a possible country-wide lockdown if they can't be good little hysterical screeching monkeys.

saw the olympics thing coming as soon as they screwed the pooch with that cruise ship. good riddance to a pointless and moronic ritual - especially after they spent the entirety of their last few runs shitting on russian athletes.

Posted by: the pair | Mar 24 2020 15:48 utc | 5

In the economic front, European industry and American services collapse:

French and German PMIs collapse to 29.0 and 34.5, respectively
UK and Eurozone PMIs collapse to 35.7 and 28.4, respectively
USA services' PMI collapses to 39.1

PMI is an index where anything below 50.0 represents contraction, 50.0 represents stagnation and anything above 50.0 represents expansion.

Posted by: vk | Mar 24 2020 15:50 utc | 6

David @1

I'm not sure if the stimulus bill will ever get passed because the US Federal Reserve has essentially already circumvented Congress by providing financial stimulus that includes loan facilities to corporations.

Within hours of the Fed's stealth 'bailout'/stimulus, Trump was talking about returning Americans to work, saying: "The cure can't be worse than the disease."

So the Congressional stimulus bill could just be establishment smoke and mirrors. Americans may never see thousands of dollars in 'helicopter money' from the Federal government.

We have to see how this plays out.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 24 2020 15:52 utc | 7

An interesting note is that China has had an increase in overall death rates every year since 2004 after having had a decrease in death rates every year since 1951 until 2004 (excepting 1984-88). Why is this?

My personal belief on this is that this is due to a combination of a sharp decline in living conditions- particularly (but not exclusively) the noted and significant decline in air quality which has impacted the respiratory and immune systems and an aging population- a naturally vulnerable group who by this time have been subjected for years to these declines in overall living conditions.


A new study shows the coronavirus mortality rate in Wuhan, China, may have been lower than previous estimates.

According to research published in the monthly Nature Medicine journal, the death rate from the coronavirus disease, COVID-19, in Wuhan -- the epicenter of the global outbreak -- was 1.4%.

“Using public and published information, we estimate that the overall symptomatic case fatality risk (the probability of dying after developing symptoms) of COVID-19 in Wuhan was 1.4%,” reads the body_abstract of the study.

The study -- titled “Estimating clinical severity of COVID-19 from the transmission dynamics in Wuhan, China” -- said the estimate was “substantially lower than both the corresponding crude or naive confirmed case fatality risk”.

Previous estimates placed the mortality rate in Wuhan between 2% to 3%.

Underlining that fatality risk was higher for the elderly, the study found 2.6% mortality rate among people over 60 years in Wuhan, 0.5% for people aged between 30 to 59, and 0.3% for people under 30 years.

The COVID-19 outbreak that started in Wuhan has been declared a pandemic by the World Health Organization (WHO).

Data compiled by the U.S.-based Johns Hopkins University shows the virus has now spread to 167 countries and regions.

Over 341,700 cases and 14,750 deaths have been reported worldwide since last December, while more than 98,860 people have recovered.

Transmission in China has slowed down over recent weeks, with authorities reporting no new indigenous cases on Monday.

There were also no new infections in Wuhan city for the fifth consecutive day, according to China’s National Health Commission.

Posted by: Allen | Mar 24 2020 16:00 utc | 8

China and Russia have adopted a policy to contain and eliminate the Evil Virus, while much of the rest of the world has a policy of "Let 'Er Rip!". These two policies are fundamentally incompatible, with the result that China (and Russia) will have to seal itself off from the rest of the world. If Chinese people can not freely move around the world, their various development projects will be very difficult to manage.

Uncle Sam is always talking about "containing" those Evil Chinese and Dastardly Russians, and now it appears they have found a way to do that, at least for the moment. A little further along the timeline, China's partners will also adopt contain-and-eliminate and move firmly into China's "sphere of influence".

Eventually that will leave disease-ridden, poverty-stricken Uncle Sam completely isolated, and the rest of the world will breathe a sigh of relief.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 24 2020 16:22 utc | 9

Embargoing medical supplies to Iran and Venezuela in this epidemic is the moral equivalent of biological warfare.

Posted by: Michael Weddington | Mar 24 2020 16:25 utc | 10

In other news, there must be some other news somewhere---

"US House Rams Through Nicaragua Regime-change Bill with Zero Opposition"


Posted by: arby | Mar 24 2020 16:29 utc | 11

@2 Ric G -

In reference to money - we need real and tangible money - such as Gold and Silver - tangible assets which cannot be used to drive future demand into the present.

Fiat currency and interest must be ABOLISHED!

Posted by: Tim E. | Mar 24 2020 16:32 utc | 12

Michael Weddington@10
The embargoes appear to be widespread and rarely publicised. And take many forms. For example the Polish government has refused to allow Russian hospital supplies to Italy through its airspace, thus adding 3000 km to flights. Both Bulgarian and Romanian government, I gather, under US influence are refusing to allow passage to supplies of masks etc to Iran.
I would differ from you only in that I would say that what the US is engaged in is actual biological warfare. I don't think that there is much doubt that under international law the US guilt is easily established. As is that of its accessories.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 24 2020 16:39 utc | 13

Putin, xi and non western world leaders, erdogan, orban, Netanyahu are actually showing what it takes during a crisis, if you live in us look to foreign more responsible governments during this crisis for news and updates. America just spits politicized garbage over its propoganda channels while Americans infect each other.

Anyone who is against lockdowns does not understand this disease. GDP is everything in China, for it to sacrifice an entire city during lunar new year and to shutdown all schools and immobilize people shows the severity. Wuhan virus circulated nearly 2 months before lockdown was called, Chinese attempted everything before lockdown but was forced to lockdown and show the world once the situation got untenable, the level where wuhan locked down fully was 1000 deaths in a county of 1.5 billion. If they weren’t afraid they wouldn’t shut down, if people could still interact commonly without mass infection they would be allowed to. The problem is that this disease is undetectable without mass testing for the damage is done by the time you realize you have it, you’ve already ruined your lungs/organs permanently and may have infected your entire family and close contacts. It appears to be spread easily due to surface contact, even the ground or walls, and does not die easily, countries around the world spray aerosols and disinfectants to combat it, even poor countries like Iran attempt a wide general disinfectant or public walk areas. This is what scares me the most, if the virus died on surfaces after days there would be no need for China to be spraying buildings and streets that have ALREADY BEEN CLOSED WEEKS unless this disease spreads WAY EASIER AND LASTS LONGER on surfaces then we know of, the only information out is on SARS which although similar, appears to have a longer life and easier spread. I don’t feel safe Until America begins similar disinfectant missions in train stations, bus stations and airports and with the massive homeless population in the americas Covid epicenters, San Fran, Seattle, la, and New York street disinfectants may have no effect as these people go around shitting on the streets

Posted by: Garrett | Mar 24 2020 16:41 utc | 14

@7 - jackrabbit

Americans may never see thousands of dollars in 'helicopter money' from the Federal government. We have to see how this plays out.

Helicopter money = fiat currency issued in untold amounts.

How this plays out - Saudis issue IPO for Aramaco - after all Saudis are implicated in 911.

Royal Saudis argue amongst themselves - ending in imprisonments, executions and deaths.

Federal Reserve loses control over the Third privately owned Central Bank of America.

Cheap and readily available resources on the USA are becoming scarce.

Posted by: Tim E | Mar 24 2020 16:41 utc | 15

Federal Reserve can print money - Dollars - or legal tender. It cannot print oil at $20/bbl.

Posted by: Tim E. | Mar 24 2020 16:46 utc | 16

@2 - Ric G -

"Fiat currency and interest must be ABOLISHED"!

Agreed. Pushing future demand with interest into the present assures collapse.

Posted by: Tim E | Mar 24 2020 16:56 utc | 17

Italian coronavirus cases seen "10 times higher" than official tally

Western nations so worried about the veracity of the Chinese numbers, when the most important thing was to look themselves in the mirror.

Posted by: vk | Mar 24 2020 16:57 utc | 18

In reaction to killing citizens to save Wall Street, something new went viral and echoes what I wrote about yesterday regarding people's reaction to the overt saving of Wall Street at the expense of their neighbors and kin. The gross immorality of this stage in the American System's finally being recognized by more than just a few and will hopefully destroy the Establishment's Narrative.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 24 2020 17:13 utc | 19

@ Michael Weddington | Mar 24 2020 16:25 utc | 10

“Embargoing medical supplies to Iran and Venezuela in this epidemic is the moral equivalent of biological warfare.”
- - - - - - - - - - -

Uncle Shmuel employs more than just biological warfare. He employs medieval siege, mass murder, genocide and Nazi war crime techniques - says Prof. Alfred de Zayas, a former UN Special Rapporteur.

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Mar 24 2020 17:20 utc | 20

The judge in the MH17 trial has issued an order for the US satelite data showing images of the Buk missile being launched to be made available. If the prosecution is unable (or refuses) to produce these images then this would strongly indicate that:

1. There was no Buk and MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian jet (which the very first, on the ground, eyewitnesses indicated).

2. The US was involved in this crime.


Posted by: ADKC | Mar 24 2020 17:21 utc | 21

Hope this is not accurate but: "ITALY GAS STATIONS TO START CLOSING MARCH 25: UNIONS"

Also, a big fuck you @the pair from a drama King..

Posted by: Lozion | Mar 24 2020 17:33 utc | 22


I tend to think US does have sat recording of the missile. It will show launch flare and rocket burn. It was quite clear by what Kerry said that this is what their sats pick up. Launch flare will show launch position to within a few meters.
Robert Parry did a piece on it a few weeks after the shootdown. His contact in the US intel thought sat pics of the position were showing Ukraine military.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 24 2020 17:58 utc | 23

This came out a while ago:

Wuhan’s virus patient numbers manipulated for Xi visit, doctor says

The source is a doctor in Wuhan who "whistleblowed" to Japanese MSM vehicle Kyodo News.

This the the "whistleblower's" argument:

The number of patients currently undergoing treatment is deliberately being reduced in an effort to show the Xi government’s success in combatting the epidemic, he said.

The doctor, in his 40s, whose responsibilities include determining whether a patient is discharged from a hospital expressed strong concerns that if the truth remains hidden from the public, another outbreak could occur.

Guidelines from the National Health Commission stipulate that patients must test negative for the virus twice and be cleared for pneumonia via a computerized tomography scan before being discharged.

But according to the doctor, from around the time of Xi’s visit, even though his patients still exhibited signs of pneumonia, the patients were released from quarantine at the discretion of a “specialist” from the epidemic prevention and control authority.

From then on, the criteria for discharging patients became loose, and “a mass release of infected patients began,” he said.

Also, patient interviews with those exhibiting symptoms such as fever were simplified, and blood tests to detect antibodies produced during infection were discontinued. As a result, “suspected patients were released back into society,” he said.

This is a classic example of "it's not what it looks like". The same day, the Wuhan government itself clarified the issue:

China says it's maintaining transparency as transmission nears zero

The contentious point over the transparency of the data lies in the fact that two types of patients were not counted in the statistics. First, recovered patients who have been tested positive again and second, people who have been tested positive but show no virus-like symptoms.

Amid emerging concerns, health authorities of Wuhan City and Hubei Province explained the reasoning behind the decision and how they have handled these cases to avoid further infections.

In an interview with Hubei Daily on Sunday, Tu Yuanchao, deputy head of the Health Commission of Hubei Province, said that because the recovered patients were already reported when they tested positive for the first time, so there's no need to report it as a new case even if they are tested positive again.

He said that the provincial government has arranged family doctors to regularly check recovered patients and there are designated hospitals to treat recovered patients who have been tested positive again.

If any recovered patient tests positive again, Tu said, those who show symptoms like coughing and fever, will be transferred to hospital immediately and those who don't will be put in quarantine for two weeks and released if they show no symptoms.

Wuhan Municipal Health Commission also held a meeting on Monday to address those concerns.

According to the press release posted on its official website, people who were tested positive but showed no symptoms seemingly pose low risks of transmission. So they are usually just put under a 14-day quarantine and reported as new cases if they start to show symptoms, the commission said.

Most people who tested positive but showed no symptoms recovered without any medical treatment, the commission said.

The "whistleblower" probably is a low hierarchical level doctor who came from outside Wuhan, and received some kind of western education when young. He doesn't have the whole picture for the simple fact he's not positioned to have one. He probably lost his nerve when Xi's visit to the region coincided with the sudden fall in new cases. The explanation for this is simple: Xi only came to Wuhan when the situation already was under control - after all, you don't send your general to the battlefield unless the battle is at least practically over.

The change in paradigm is as easy to explain: as China gains more knowledge and experience with figthing the virus, they also change their protocols. Wuhan got the curse of surprise for being ground zero; now they reap the blessing of gaining the most know-how.

Many Chinese doctors came from relativaly well off families, and were raised partially or totally on Western education and ideology. They should keep their nerves in place, and not fall for Western propaganda pressure.

Posted by: vk | Mar 24 2020 18:01 utc | 24

Moa@12 Chinese Canadians helped build Vancouver and a great big giant fuck you

Posted by: TDeL | Mar 24 2020 18:07 utc | 25

It's incredible that the Director of the Office of Public Health Preparedness and Response at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) was a participant in the Gates Foundation Event 201, essentially gaming out the same kind of pandemic which arose just a few months later. To say the CDC messed up is an gross understatement. Their policies of denying testing, pushing a flawed test which had to be withdrawn, and acting without urgency as their own directives allowed major population centers in Pacific Northwest, New York and California to become infected beyond control expose a decided lack of preparedness or response. A major focus of Event 201 was the integration of private sector, or corporate, interests into the pandemic response architecture. The Preparedness and Response people were in effect corporate lobbyists, not public health experts. Hiding this sad fact is motivating the furious effort to lay all blame at feet of Chinese government.

Posted by: jayc | Mar 24 2020 18:10 utc | 26

Small minds, self-reliance, Transcendentalism, and more are topics of the 21 March Keiser Report, which is as usual filled with useful info not provided elsewhere. Just prior to the break, Max says the greatest BigLie--"Statistical Mirage"--is the Outlaw US Empire's GDP, which is closer to 9 Trillion than the touted 22 Trillion. The second half of the show isn't worth the time to watch, IMO, and is better spent watching today's episode which is about out-of-control money printing, the failure of the Fed and other central banks, along with the phenomenon of "phantom money," which isn't money--cash--at all: it's credit! The second half discussion is all about the demise of fiat currencies and isn't to be missed--lots of useful info there! What's revealed provides an excellent indication of why Trump and Wall Street are so spooked about the need to end lockdown and get supply chains moving again.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 24 2020 18:16 utc | 27

Three days ago: Israeli Defense Minister Gives A Speech on the coronavirus pandemic

Compare with our countries' methods and draw your conclusions.

Posted by: Dors | Mar 24 2020 18:20 utc | 28

Steve Mnuchin whom Trump is giving the power of Money God to, is...wait for it...a member of Skull and Bones!. Yup. He along with some others here and there are secret society wiseguys. Talk about a swamp creature. Did you ever find it weird that he went from a successful Hollywood producer to being Trump's campaign money man and then Treasury Sec. Like WTF? Now you know. Skull and Bones baby. These are the end times and Trump is a big part of it. Who ya gonna call? Tulsi Gabbard: The End Times

Posted by: Kali | Mar 24 2020 18:24 utc | 29

vk 25
Reading the piece, I doubt the so called doctor even exists. Job description exceptionally vague, no qualifications.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 24 2020 18:38 utc | 30


Billions of doses of chloroquine are distributed and consumed annually without prescription or control of any type in countries where malaria is endemic. Problems are very rare. If the story you refer to happened at all, and is not merely blackwash from the pharma industry, it says far more about the education and intelligence of the victims than it does about the drug. Dosage and toxicity information is a search away, no secrets.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 24 2020 18:39 utc | 31

Well it seems we will see a very very interesting experiment in coming weeks in USA, when Trump end the lock-downs to allow the economy to "blossom", he see the risk for his election and he will bet all to one card, he know he and all their rich friends have access to first class heatlh care : ICU's, ventilators, all forms of therapies, so they are not affraid of the overwhelming of hospitals but the old hoi polloi will die like flies. But may, just may be, some of them fight-back

He could end hanged in a lamppost or in the roof of a gasoline station like Mussolini

Posted by: DFC | Mar 24 2020 18:39 utc | 32

the pair@5 : quebec is going to "lock down" for 3 weeks. seems a bit much but then the french are a bunch of drama queens
Obviously, to be against the lockdown you haven't read anything here on MOA, and youdon't understand this disease ... so, f** you from Québec ( with love)

Posted by: From_Québec_with_lov | Mar 24 2020 19:05 utc | 33

Posted by: jayc | Mar 24 2020 18:10 utc | 27

Something tells me Event 201 wasn't so much about actually preparing to counter a random or naturally occurring pandemic outbreak as it was to plan for a synthetic one, even if many of most of the participants weren't aware of this. I feel the same way about Israeli firm Cybereason "war gaming" US election systems in anticipation of possible "chaos" surrounding the elections this year. They held a session in my small city which pitted the former Unit 8200 Cybereason guys as both the good guys AND the bad guys while they got to catalog the responses of local, state, and federal officials who were supposed to react to the various attacks on our infrastructure, both physical and cyber. Methinks they were just getting a better understanding of how to bypass the defenses.

Posted by: information_agent | Mar 24 2020 19:08 utc | 34

@vk, 25
The source is anonymous (how convenient) and the article bears no author name. Maybe it's real, but it's also the pattern of how disinformation is propagated: dissidents quoted as unnamed sources.
The story relayed also doesn't add up: a person in authority would not release infected patients into the wild without risking getting fired and punished, and he would only do that from higher authority, which is also subject to the same, and the higher up the command, the less reason there is to cover up on the ground conditions, which happens more on the local level. Someone going to risk punishment and cause national havoc with no gain to his career. The story makes zero sense.

Posted by: occupatio | Mar 24 2020 19:19 utc | 35

1/ @35 And you can include Ontario in that farewell too.

2/ When one of Reagan's top bureaucrats is calling for writing down the debt and nationalisation, it is obvious that neo-liberalism is dying.

3/ Isn't chloroquine just a new name for Jesuit's (Peruvian) bark? Or quinine. The tonic in gin and tonic?

4/ Tom Paine's 1796 pamphlet 'The English System of Finance' and Cobbett's 'Paper against Gold' are coming into their own. What Disraeli called the Dutch system of finance is what is collapsing, almost 500 years after it began. That was the contradiction in globalisation, one that Rosa Luxemburg had pointed out more than a century ago: we have reached the limits of constant expansion. And not just in environmental terms.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 24 2020 19:20 utc | 36


Billions of doses of chloroquine are distributed and consumed annually without prescription or control of any type in countries where malaria is endemic. Problems are very rare. If the story you refer to happened at all, and is not merely black wash from the pharma industry, it says far more about the education and intelligence of the victims than it does about the drug. Dosage and toxicity information is a search away, no secrets. by: oldhippie @ 33 <= i agree. . its all over central America has been for years, nearly everybody uses it, also my father used it in South Carolina, Virginia, NC. and and Texas until the screwed up CDC and FDC took over. Backwash is anti system propaganda whitewash when it comes to chloroquine. ..

Posted by: snake | Mar 24 2020 19:25 utc | 37

Perter AU1 @24

This is what Kerry said within a few days of the MH17 downing:

“We saw the take-off. We saw the trajectory. We saw the hit. We saw this aeroplane disappear from the radar screens. So there is really no mystery about where it came from and where these weapons have come from.”

But still, nearly 6 years later, no evidence has been provided? Surely you can see how inauthentic Kerry's statement is? Perhaps, Kerry could clear the matter up by being a witness at the MH17 trial?

Robert Parry's CIA source feels like an authorised leak and psyop exercise that reinforces the idea of a Buk and expresses concern about the possibility of Ukrainian military involvement (the true purpose of which is to create distance and absolve the US) whilst at the same time being meaningless and of no real value.

You "tend" to believe Kerry and a CIA leak and discount what ordinary Ukrainians witnessed on the day of the shootdown? Why????

Posted by: ADKC | Mar 24 2020 19:29 utc | 38

Allen @8 -- Increased mortality in China post 2004: maybe in part due to starting 2,500 McDonald's restaurants, widespread adoption of automobiles, and other US-Western lifestyle influences?

Posted by: norecovery | Mar 24 2020 19:35 utc | 39

@ Posted by: DFC | Mar 24 2020 18:39 utc | 34

The situation in the USA seems to be pretty much FUBARed, though: the SARS CoV-2 has crossed the entire American territory, connecting both coasts. The disease already seems to have a firm foothold in New York - America's soul, its most important city (home to Wall Street).

The time for a lockdown was when the virus was essentially restricted to the Northwestern coast (Washington) and the cases from abroad (international airports). At that time, the USA could easily emulate South Korea and sacrifice Washington plus its international airports in order to save the "heartland", Los Angeles and New York. That window of opportunity was wasted because Trump bet on the "it's a hoax" strategy.

Now that the entire American territory is infected, I can understand those who simply want to pay the cost and reopen the economy. Maybe that's the best strategy right now for the USA, as its economy is in tatters already, and many will die of lack of healthcare either way.

Posted by: vk | Mar 24 2020 19:38 utc | 40

Mike Whitney is always great. This is at ICH:
" Imagine if the congress approved a measure to form a public-private partnership between the US Treasury and the Federal Reserve. Can you imagine that?

Now imagine if a panicky and ill-informed Congress gave the Fed a blank check to bail out all of its crooked crony corporate and Wall Street friends, allowing the Fed to provide more than $4.5 trillion to underwater corporations that ripped off Mom and Pop investors by selling them bonds that were used to goose their stock prices so fatcat CEOs could make off like bandits. Imagine if all that red ink from private actors was piled onto the national debt pushing long-term interest rates into the stratosphere while crushing small businesses, households and ordinary working people.

"Now try to imagine the impact this would have on the nation’s future. Imagine if the Central Bank was given the green-light to devour the Treasury, control the country’s “purse strings”, and use nation’s taxing authority to shore up its trillions in ultra-risky leveraged bets, its opaque financially-engineered ponzi-instruments, and its massive speculative debts that have gone pear-shaped leaving a gaping black hole on its balance sheet?

"Well, you won’t have to imagine this scenario for much longer, because the reality is nearly at hand............

"...This isn’t a bailout, it’s a joke, and there’s no way Congress should approve these measures, particularly the merging of the US Treasury with the cutthroat Fed. That’s a prescription for disaster! The Fed needs to be abolished not embraced as a state institution. It’s madness!

"And look how the author wants to set up an special-purpose vehicle (SPV) so the accounting chicanery can be kept off the books which means the public won’t know how much money is being flushed down the toilet trying to resuscitate these insolvent corporations whose executives are still living high on the hog on the money they stole from credulous investors. This whole scam stinks to high heaven!

"Meanwhile America’s working people will get a whopping $1,000 bucks to tide them over until the debts pile up to the rafters and they’re forced to rob the neighborhood 7-11 to feed the kids. How fair is that?

"And don’t kid yourself: This isn’t a bailout, it’s the elitist’s political agenda aimed at creating a permanent underclass who’ll work for peanuts just to eek out a living.

"Welcome to Sweatshop Amerika!"

Posted by: bevin | Mar 24 2020 19:39 utc | 41

@ mao.. where are you and the pair going with this racist shit?? that is what it looks like to me fwiw..

Posted by: james | Mar 24 2020 19:43 utc | 42

Allen & Norecovery

During the period in question the average age of death (from birth) in China has increased from 43 (in 1950) to 77 (in 2019).

The increase in death rates is due to China's aging population.

Posted by: ADKC | Mar 24 2020 19:46 utc | 43

I hope American wakes-up to who they are in bed with.

Amazon soliciting public donations to pay workers' sick leave
Judd Legum

While much of the economy grinds to a halt, Amazon is doing more business than ever. The company has announced it is hiring 100,000 workers to try to meet surging demand. In 2019, Amazon had over $280 billion in revenue and $11.9 billion in profits. As more Americans shift their shopping online, it will likely do better this year. But, as the pandemic continues, Amazon maintains one of the stingiest paid sick leave policies among major corporations.

As Popular Information reported last week, a significant number of Amazon's workforce — particularly part-time employees and contract workers — are not receiving paid sick time.


Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 24 2020 19:46 utc | 44

@Dors | Mar 24 2020 18:20 utc | 30
His dilema is based on so called "herd immunidity" concept, but many expert doubt about it , it may not work for covid-19 virus

Posted by: Arata | Mar 24 2020 19:49 utc | 45

A question for those well-informed pundits on this blog: Chinese statistics to date shows that of those infected and hospitalized in China for covid-19, only 15% of them are smokers. Of those who died under covid-19 infection, only 2.5% were smokers. Is this info true????

We know that large percentage of Chinese are smokers, especially those over 50 years of age. If the info I cited above is indeed true, this would be an interesting titbit for the medical profession to chew on.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Mar 24 2020 19:50 utc | 46

@Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 24 2020 19:46 utc | 46

You do not become billionaire out of thin air, but by exploting and robbing employees, national or international.

There is no other secret.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 24 2020 19:51 utc | 47

The value of money is dictated by the issuer of that currency being able to say use our money at the value we declare or we will kill you. We, the OEofUSA have killed off many who threatened to not accept this system. Most recently Sadam, Muammar. Any real assets or resources will be bought and sold at a price based in US dollars, you can pay in any currency you want but it will be US$ equivalent. If someone says they will sell their assets or resources for a set price in a different currency only will either see that currency crash to near worthless or will be killed.

The US can "print" an unlimited amount of money as long as it does not get into the hands of the average person which would cause inflation so they. only give it to the 1% to 10% of the population. Boom! Money creation without inflation. Welll..... inflation in Yachts and Bugattis but whos counting.

There are two goals of modern war as the US does it , Supply & Demand.

We take your assets and your resources or else - supply.
We bomb your country and infrastructure "back to the stone age" destroying demand for assets and resources.

Either way it means more for us ....YEA!!!!!!!

Posted by: jef | Mar 24 2020 19:54 utc | 48

@ moa - not mao... it is all fucked up! i don't get it! please explain why any of it is worth anything??

Posted by: james | Mar 24 2020 19:59 utc | 49

Alken @ 8:

Bear in mind that in 1951, China was coming out of the devastation of Japanese occupation and violence against Chinese civilians going back to the late 1930s, and of civil war between Guomindang forces led by Jiang Jiesi (Chiang Kaishek) and Communist forces led by Mai Zedong for even longer. Death rates in China in the early 1950s would have been very high and comparable to countries experiencing similar chaos and instability.

The period in which death rates were decreasing in China (1951 - 2004) covers the time of the Great Leap Forward in the late 50s/early 60s, after which there was supposed to have been mass starvation that lasted at least 2 years. Death rates should have shot up in the early 1960s to mid-60s if casualty figures numbering over 20 million or even 50 million

Posted by: Jen | Mar 24 2020 20:00 utc | 50

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 24 2020 19:51 utc | 49

HS, some of them do become billionaires out of thin air. They are people like Dalio and those sitting in Goldman-Sachs offices.

I'm not deluded to think that they are nice guys. NY limo drivers know that well. But for Bezos to ask the PUBLIC is to go to another level of grifting. I'd say the ass-wipes are sitting there and laughing, "How many idiots can we find for this one?", as they make bets and drink champagne.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 24 2020 20:00 utc | 51

Sorry I cut myself off @ 53: I was going to say if casualty figures of 20 - 50 million are to be believed.

Posted by: Jen | Mar 24 2020 20:01 utc | 52

In my corner of 1.5 million people in the SF bay area confirmed virus cases have gone from 70 to 71 in the last 24 hours. Deaths are still at the 1 cruise ship passager. Some of the leaders in the Bay have gone full blown Trump derangement syndrome in the press from quietly working with the Feds over the reported on issues with Trump.

The 6 county area has ordered all testing be reported which would included negative tests in addition to the positive tests reports. Hiring continues in the grocery and retail industry due to increased demand. There has been anecdotal reports that grocery workers are not going getting the virus and sick calls are low.

At my workplace less than 5 workers have been turned around to home due to reported possible contacts, not due to illness. That percentage of workers turned back to home on site is minuscule.

In the six county area case counts are moving up and deaths are increasing but not anything like Italy. A few first responders have tested positive. They get first priority on available testing.

Posted by: dltravers | Mar 24 2020 20:06 utc | 53

@Dors | Mar 24 2020 18:20 utc | 30
Needless to say Bojo utterd the word , Eu leader as well as potus strategy was the same, without uttering the word. On the hand China, Korea, Taiwan and Singapore took decisive action and fought and controlled.
We See the differences now, next generation will see who wrote history.

Posted by: Arata | Mar 24 2020 20:07 utc | 54

@ bevin | Mar 24 2020 19:20 utc | 38

'3/ Isn't chloroquine just a new name for Jesuit's (Peruvian) bark? Or quinine. The tonic in gin and tonic? '

Nope, while they share the benzopyridine base structure, their substitutes in 4-,6-,7- position are different. What does it mean in terms of pharmacological effectiveness? I can't tell, not my field of expertise.

Posted by: Hmpf | Mar 24 2020 20:09 utc | 55

Miracle drug hysteria seems to have triggered insider trading and drug trafficking and price gouging in the USA:

States Say Some Doctors Stockpile Trial Coronavirus Drugs, for Themselves

Posted by: vk | Mar 24 2020 20:15 utc | 56

@ Moa 12, 29; and the pair @ 5

FFS. stop the racist diatribe. Focus on the global depression ahead.
This viral pneumonia has no passport, needs no visa and is blind to whether you are color-enhanced or color-deprived. It is an equal infector.

At the end of the day, your daily essentials origin are "product of China or "made in China" that include the ventilators which you or a loved one may end up being hooked to for survival. And should you need an infusion of blood will you ask if it was donated by a Chinese? If it was a Chinese donor, will you refuse?

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 24 2020 20:15 utc | 57

Biden sounds like an idiot - like Trump. The common people can "come together", be super dooper "incredible", and have one big kumbaya moment or several, but if they don't get some BIG CHECKS directly from their GOVERNMENT, their jobless booties will be soon be evicted, foreclosed - blued and tattooed, without lube.

Posted by: Kristan hinton | Mar 24 2020 20:16 utc | 58

Posted by: vk | Mar 24 2020 19:38 utc | 42

People thinks you can choose between a "normal" economy, with the "productive" people working more or less normally, and some old people, above lets say 70's (of course mainly poor), unfortunately dying like flies (the old rich people, of course, will be isolated and managing the business at a distance), so people think some thousands "losers" dying and the economy more or less OK; but I think this is a false dilemma: Seeing how this bitch works what probably you will have is BOTH problems, when the exponential infections continue unabated and 70 - 80% of the population have the disease, the country will be broken to the roots: the economy, the health, the social and political fabric all will be destroyed, IMO it will be like Lombardy now but multiply by 10.000 during months and months never stopping.

Probably some people will fight-back

Good luck with that because you will need a lot

Posted by: DFC | Mar 24 2020 20:19 utc | 59

Moa | Mar 24 2020 16:30 utc | 12 writes:

@the pair, you also failed to mention that Vancouver is overrun by the Chinese.

Vancouver is not over-run with Chinese. In the 90s as Hong Kong approached the 1997 date for the end of the British colony in Hong Kong, Canada offered citizenship to anyone who, if they deposited $500,000 in a Canadian bank, were offered citizenship. Thus began a major increase in the numbers of Hong Kong Chinese that became Canadian citizens. It also began major increases in property values especially in Vancouver and Montreal.

One could make the case that the Vancouver real estate market has since become dominated by Chinese buyers and speculators but I know from my own observation that a large number of those Hong Kong buyers of Vancouver condominiums continue to reside in Hog Kong.

Posted by: ToivoS | Mar 24 2020 20:30 utc | 60

Trump has been leading from behind. He is positing lifting lockdowns because this disease will kill the economy upon which depends his re-election. What a choice?

Queue States Rights vs Federal Authority: President Trump pushes to reopen U.S. economy, state governors push back

At this hour New York is reporting 25,665 cases as US could be next 'virus epicenter

[.]As President Donald Trump pressed his case for a reopening of the U.S. economy within a few weeks, Cuomo said that being too hasty to ease the limits on travel, socializing and working together would cost lives.

“If you ask the American people to choose between public health and the economy, then it’s no contest. No American is going to say accelerate the economy at the cost of human life,” he said at a convention center in Manhattan that is being converted into a 1,000-bed temporary hospital.
The expected need for hospital beds in New York at the peak of the outbreak has jumped to 140,000, Cuomo said, compared with 110,000 projected recently. Only 53,000 beds are now available.[.]

Trump said on Monday he was considering how to restart business life when a 15-day shutdown ends next week, even as the highly contagious virus spreads rapidly and poorly equipped hospitals struggle with a wave of deadly cases.

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 24 2020 20:30 utc | 61

Responding to David all the way back at #1, there is an excellent website, which gives details of all the lurid - well I'm just going to call it pillaging - that the Fed and Munchkin propose or have already done.

No doubt others have mentioned it, but I am so offended I'll repeat: Boing has asked Con=gress for $60 Billion - but refuses to give up any equity to the tax payers. The disgusting punchline? If they can't have the money no strings attached they'll take their beachball and play in another sand box. Fine. Sayonara jerks.

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Mar 24 2020 20:30 utc | 62

bevin @38, Hmpf @59

AFAIK Chloroquine is the synthetic version of the natural quinine.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 24 2020 20:31 utc | 63

Let's face it Moon of Alabama was good about Syria. B.took over from Saker's wonderful effort on Ukraine by producing an equally excellent blog about Syria. But that's it folks. B.s latest pronouncements are sort of pathetic.

"Weapon researchers are sane people with a limited budget (HA,HA). They look for methods to defeat an enemy (YES). A virus that affects all humans indiscriminately but kills mostly very old ones would have no military value (IT CREATES CHAOS)."

Posted by: Lochearn | Mar 24 2020 20:38 utc | 64

Lorries packed with medical supplies destined for Iran, to fight Coronavirus, are being stopped by #Romania & #Bulgaria obeying US sanctions & economic warfare on Iran.
#Trump & his admin are genocidal war criminals who are evidently leading a rogue state.

 After some difficult negotiations #Iran managed to get Turkey to accept half the medical supplies convoy to go through Turkey. Negotiations are ongoing for other half of convoy. 
Trump & US policy makers, Pompeo & co, are world’s leading war criminals, at head of a rogue state.

Posted by: arata | Mar 24 2020 20:42 utc | 65

dealing with a troll... my bad.. oh well..

Posted by: james | Mar 24 2020 20:43 utc | 66

To whom are you referring james?

Posted by: Lochearn | Mar 24 2020 20:53 utc | 67

@69 Lochearn

B did much much more great work than just Syria, Lochearn. His series on the Skripals is legendary. Didn't you read him during the coup in Ukraine? He's been excellent for years.
Of course, he failed badly on this flu. Seems like lots of people in the alternative media have failed badly on this one, though.
There is still a chance that he was kidnapped and replaced. If that's so then he's probably in a U.S. secret prison in Romania or something, and we all should hope he escapes.

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 24 2020 20:57 utc | 68

Oriental voice # 48

That was interesting but bs. Seeing you have done the research you would know that. I guess your free carton of cigarettes is in the mail. Maybe via Amazon eh!

Thanks for the link.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 24 2020 21:00 utc | 69

@ 74 SharonM

I am glad I drew that defence of b. from you (ha, ha). I can assure you I have been involved in this blog for many a year and I have even donated scarce pennies to b. from my very limited budget. I am a natural rebel. I have paid the price so many times of sticking it to the boss and quite prestigious bosses they were. I have been out on my ass so many times I cannot count. But still I am here. What I cannot take is b.'s (and I love him) denial of our right to question it all.

Posted by: Lochearn | Mar 24 2020 21:11 utc | 70

@ Allen 8
No - life expectancy is gradually increasing in China, which means life is not getting harder.

What you are seeing in the death rate is simple an ageing population. With the one child policy to 2015, the population simply got older, with higher proportions over 70. That would result in higher death rates with no underlying health implications.

Posted by: Michael Droy | Mar 24 2020 21:12 utc | 71

Moa @72: Most buyers in the Vancouver area are from the People's Republic of China.

They buy as a hedge ... just like Japanese, Arabs, Russians, and others.

AFAIK, no seller has objected to the elevated prices that they are receiving from this 'hot money' - including Trump, who has told us that he gladly sold to all of the above.

The blame lies with Western governments that sold out their own people time and time again. They allowed corporations to move jobs to China (eliminating high-paid manufacturing jobs), allowed massive undocumented immigration (which drove down wages), offered large numbers of visas to skilled workers (mostly IT and medical), and offered residency and citizenship via investment.

Stoking racial tensions is a reliable divide and conquer trick that excuses the craven politicians and a corrupt system.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 24 2020 21:14 utc | 72

@69 Lochearn

Attacking someone because they don't believe the Covid-19 as a US weapon has got to be the lamest insult I have ever heard.

Posted by: Michael Droy | Mar 24 2020 21:15 utc | 73

@76 Lochearn

"What I cannot take is b.'s (and I love him) denial of our right to question it all."

Add that his call for governments like the U.S. and British regimes to impose tyranny on the people by supporting a complete lockdown, and his very strange use of MSM sources to make his point. Therefore it is possible that b is no longer writing this blog. I've checked for any ufo stories in Germany lately where witnesses could have seen b being abducted by aliens. Others have said that the Borg Collective absorbed him. And I'm sure there are psychologists trying to explain it all as a personality disorder of some kind. But for me, him being a victim of U.S. "extraordinary rendition" is probably the most likely scenario.

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 24 2020 21:41 utc | 74

SharonM #74

Of course, he failed badly on this flu. Seems like lots of people in the alternative media have failed badly on this one, though.
There is still a chance that he was kidnapped and replaced. If that's so then he's probably in a U.S. secret prison in Romania or something, and we all should hope he escapes.

Thank you SharonM for that. I too wondered about that kidnap option. I do believe that he is driven to maintain this blog. No blog is entirely secure when the 'state apparatus' pays a visit to 'explain their case'. Why not publish something as provocative as b has here on the corona CBW/fubar or attack. Who knows if there is any backstory or if the post truly reflects b's position. I really don't care.

Regardless it gives us barflies red meat to consider. Or lentils if you are that way inclined.

I am enjoying the corona debate and the extraordinary tale of USUK incompetence and 'rapture ready' policy responses. In the do nothing states who are believers in gods 'herd immunity' remedy there will be problems the scale of which is emerging. I suspect the 'west' is in for hard times and the oligarchs will pounce like a tiger on its prey. We wont have to wait for long to know which strategy of lockdown or laissez faire works.

I suspect immense social disorder will erupt in the USA and I see they have their 'national guard' killers all primed up.

I found this offering from information_agent #36 to be on point.

Something tells me Event 201 wasn't so much about actually preparing to counter a random or naturally occurring pandemic outbreak as it was to plan for a synthetic one, even if many of most of the participants weren't aware of this. I feel the same way about Israeli firm Cybereason "war gaming" US election systems in anticipation of possible "chaos" surrounding the elections this year. They held a session in my small city which pitted the former Unit 8200 Cybereason guys as both the good guys AND the bad guys while they got to catalog the responses of local, state, and federal officials who were supposed to react to the various attacks on our infrastructure, both physical and cyber. Methinks they were just getting a better understanding of how to bypass the defenses.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 24 2020 21:43 utc | 75

Moa @80

Last I checked, "Quebecois" is not a race.

And "drama queen" is not a racial slur.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 24 2020 21:43 utc | 76

stop feeding the trolls

Posted by: occupatio | Mar 24 2020 21:51 utc | 77

Moa @80: ... the Chinese, no matter what they do, must be defended.

You are exaggerating.

You'd like us to excoriate Chinese for taking advantage of rules that our own governments have established? Look to those governments! Look at who those governments serve! Look at the lack of accountability, the money-based electoral system, the propaganda!


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 24 2020 21:53 utc | 78

@82 uncle tungsten

I like that comment as well, from "information_agent #36, uncle tungsten. Thank you for posting it:)

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 24 2020 21:55 utc | 79

King Lear @84

The mad King offers no solutions to defeating Imperialism or countering the Empire's drive for global rule.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 24 2020 22:03 utc | 80

People who regard fiat currency as the root of all evil are akin to anti-vaxers: They have not personally experienced severe austerity imposed by hard currencies, just as anti-vaxers have never experienced waves of polio or smallpox. That hard currencies are considered to have value is essentially a matter of fiat, i.e. their value derives entirely from convention, just as is the case with soft currencies. People attribute value to currencies (hard or soft), because everyone else does the same. There is no divine law requiring that currency must be hard and yellow and of a limited amount.

Today's economic downturn would be much more severe, if the supply of money were limited by how much gold was sitting in national treasuries. That system was tried for centuries, and after long experience, people decided to abandon it with good reason. To be hung up on a shiny metal is absurd and cruelly assigns millions of people to misery.

Posted by: Rob | Mar 24 2020 22:07 utc | 81

for b, wherever you are
I hope the aliens feed you well apologies for the shocking audio but the bass is strong :))


Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 24 2020 22:15 utc | 82

@ Posted by: King Lear | Mar 24 2020 21:49 utc | 84

That's redneck theogony. Nobody was complaining about cheap Chinese labor force when the likes of Nixon and Reagan were still roaming in the face of Earth.


@ Posted by: SharonM | Mar 24 2020 21:55 utc | 87

I have good news for you, SharonM: Wuhan will lift its lockdown at April 8th.

See? Nobody lost their rights and freedom. It was just a little sting.


@ Posted by: Moa | Mar 24 2020 20:29 utc | 64

I don't give a fuck about Chinese culture. In fact, I know almost nothing about it besides the stereotypical thing and I'm not planning about learning about it, ever.

All I know is the CCP's extraordinary accomplishments, and what it continues to accomplish. The numbers are out there, they don't lie, you can see them by yourself.

As long as China lives, socialism lives. The rest is of secondary importance in the present geopolitical scenario.

Posted by: vk | Mar 24 2020 22:17 utc | 83

Re: Rob | Mar 24 2020 22:07 utc | 89
you say Today's economic downturn would be much more severe, if the supply of money were limited by how much gold sitting in national treasuries. That system was tried for centuries, and after long experience, people decided to abandon it with good reason. To be hung up on a shiny metal is absurd and cruelly assigns millions of people to misery.

LOL, do you work for the Fed or Goldman Sachs?

Posted by: Perimetr | Mar 24 2020 22:22 utc | 84

King Lear @90

The mad King is confused.

Immigration policy is different than trade policy.

US and China "in league with each other" is nonsense. The reality is "great power competition" and hybrid warfare. Naturally, USA/Empire propaganda narratives try to ignore this reality because it's not very flattering to the USA/Empire.

USA/Empire is in direct conflict with many nations that are supported by Russia and/or China: Syria, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, to name a few. If not for Russia/China support, these nations would probably have already been overcome by USA/Empire scheming.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 24 2020 22:28 utc | 85

Just saw this:

Smacks of opportunism? Further confirmation if needed that Sars -Cov2 is the new 9/11 jury still out if China is the LH Oswald patsy? Either way the USG's Sars -Cov2 Chimera has slipped it's chain and is out of the workshop. Those who read Corbett's Maurice Strong is dead will not be at all surprised by these developments.

Buckle up the 20's are heading up to be a wild ride!

Posted by: dennis | Mar 24 2020 22:47 utc | 86

Just wondering how China handled the problem of shutting down a whole city?province.
I see on our local TV people lining up at service Canada. They are scared and very worried because they have no money to buy food with or pay rent. These I assume are all people in service like restaurant staff and non essential businesses.
Pretty sure that if the shutdown in China caused massive problems like the ones showing up here , we would have heard about it loud and clear.
I never heard or read anything about how they deal with millions out of work.

Posted by: arby | Mar 24 2020 22:49 utc | 87

Talk about thread derailing..

Lochearn, welcome back. I also tried to go cold turkey on MoA and its not easy..
I do think b should clean up shop a little..

Posted by: Lozion | Mar 24 2020 22:54 utc | 88

Odd that B , or the thread for that matter, does not acknowledge that b.s data:

...Remuzzi says he is now hearing information about it from general practitioners. "They remember having seen very strange pneumonia, very severe, particularly in old people in December and even November,,,

erroneously omits OCTOBER from Dr. Ramuzzi' timeframe, as noted in comments #106 and 108 of his post. It is highly relevant errata.

Posted by: chu teh | Mar 24 2020 23:07 utc | 89

More re b and my $99

"anony | Mar 22 2020 22:49 utc | 111 " originally noted the omitted OCTOBER from Dr. Ramuzzi' quote. I.e., Italian physicians saw the very odd pneumonia behavior in October!.

Posted by: chu teh | Mar 24 2020 23:15 utc | 90

Very hard to disagree:

"👉Some say reaction to CV is worse than CV (Bc Econ damage)

"I get it, but remember, CV didn’t force: 👇

"1. Mkt cap/gdp 150%+
"2. Corp debt all time high
"3. Consumer debt all time high
"4. Dependency on ZIRP/QE
"5. No savings
"6. Econ built on debt+asset bubbles

"CV is just a pin."

A pin that bursts the bubble.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 24 2020 23:15 utc | 91

All too true too:

"One American's response to the continuing unavailability of coronavirus testing for most Americans:

"For the average American the best way to tell if you have covid-19 is to cough in a rich person’s face and wait for their test results."

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 24 2020 23:21 utc | 92

@ Sñr karlof 101

"CV is just a pin."

A pin that bursts the bubble.

...but the pin was manufactured, and was so perfect to exactly burst the bubble. The restructuring as a consequence of this 'pop' will ripple out tsunami style for over a decade, glimpses appearing:

I posted earlier of USJ indefinite detention application UK is already rolling out a version. How many coincidences does one need to validate a conspiracy - opps coincidence theory?

Posted by: dennis | Mar 24 2020 23:37 utc | 93

US has actually performed over 150,000 tests. The problem is too much testing.

PCR detects DNA or RNA of both live and dead organisms, positive test results
may be achieved even if the infection has been controlled

Also, one must know the tests specificity and disease prevalence. If specificity is 99.5% and disease prevalence is 0.5%, testing everyone regardless of symptoms or risk will yield 50% false positives (half the positives are false).

The tests on the market are self validated. FDA does not review manufacturers data. No tort liability for covid 19 tests or vaccines

China did very little testing the first 2 months the disease wa spreading. We now know retrospectively the first case was November 17, and expanded testing did not begin until Jan 18 after 16 consecutive days of no new cases. Lockdown did not begin until Jan 23. Its impossible for the virus to have been contained in hubei as we are led to believe from data reported from other provinces

Likewise I would not trust data from anywhere given the nature of the tests. At the end of the day we will need to look for any bump in total deaths from all causes, population reduction and age data to estimate
the impact

There is obviously a lot of profit incentive for making people believe there is a threat, which is why our trusted and reliable MSM play it up. But for some reason the so called evils of capitalism and fake news MSM are ignored by the most faithful opponents of both in support of the Pandemic Vaccine Industrial Complex

Posted by: Pft | Mar 24 2020 23:40 utc | 94

coronavirus bombshell

Ric G @ 2 .. The money supply can be tagged to the moon, Its serial number related to a silly little millimeter on the surface of the moon. money, We call it the $Milimoon money; it requires no interest to be paid by the nations of the people of the nations, so the nations do not generate a new debt that needs to be repaid with they issue more $Milimoon.

Never have a national debt, always have sufficient currency for people to use to trade with, and currency that needs no repayment of principal. The circulation of the $Milimoon money can be kept up with by reference to a particular square millimeter on the moon (each $Milimoon has a serial number that corresponds to a millimeter on the surface of the moon) and governments can keep the numbers of units of money they needed so the users can transact business. This is how the colonies in America survived, and how Lincoln financed the civil war.. and so on..
Banks are not needed.. people just use money to close the time gap between a transaction. A farmer plants wheat, borrows $Milimoon in July he sells the wealth and pays off the loan (no interest) from the proceeds.

Posted by: snake | Mar 24 2020 23:45 utc | 95

On China and its great medical and social unity in the face of the coronavirus CBW/fubar attack.

I found that their manual on recommended practice guidelines for coronavirus response included a detailed inclusion of Traditional Chinese Medicine response in support of all the alopathic treatments.

This may be handy for all barflies to take a copy of that page when visiting or seeking herb packages from your TCM practitioner as it is written in their jargon culture and includes the herbal recommendations as well.

The success of the Chinese response is respect for modern science and medicine complimented with practice drawn from a millenia of scientific observation and trial and record keeping and compassion for people's wellbeing.

We should all be so lucky. In my land the 60,000 years practice and learning of Indigenous peoples was almost entirely erased by western bacteria, plague and assassinations. Its knowledge revival is ongoing.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 24 2020 23:46 utc | 96

Vladimir Zelensky is asked to check what exactly 15 American biological laboratories are doing in Ukraine right away. The details of their work are classified. Even the leadership of Ukraine does not explain anything.

Some considerations...Thread:

1)Critical note. Italian doctors recall seeing "very strange and very serious pneumonia, especially in older people, in November and December 2019 in Lombardia (Italy) before we knew that this outbreak was occurring in China"

2) Evidence. The fact that there have been simultaneous appearances of a new virus in 3 different countries (China-Italy-South Korea) determines, in all three cases, that there is no clear epidemiology and the inability to identify the original source or a zero patient .

(3) Controversy. Biological weapons experts unanimously agree that the sudden appearance in a human population of a new and unusual virus in multiple locations at the same time is evidence of an intentionally released pathogen.

While China is starting to control the epidemic...another new virus?

Global Times @globaltimesnews A person from Yunnan Province died while on his way back to Shandong Province for work on a chartered bus on Monday. He was tested positive for #hantavirus. Other 32 people on bus were tested.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 24 2020 23:47 utc | 97

@ moa 64

“Likklemoar, are you a) my boss b) my parent c) the police?”

Because of the trash you are spewing here, you do need a boss and parental supervision. And yes, we do police ourselves here.

If you can’t contribute to an intelligent conversation, take your racist jive somewhere else. No takers here.

Posted by: Alpi | Mar 24 2020 23:49 utc | 98

uncle tungsten @ 106
We should all be so lucky. In my land the 60,000 years practice and learning of Indigenous peoples was almost entirely erased by western bacteria, plague and assassinations. Its knowledge revival is ongoing.

And they would like to do that to 5,000 or more years of Chinese medicine as well. In my area there are some excellent practitioners of ancient Chinese medicine.

Posted by: dltravers | Mar 24 2020 23:51 utc | 99

Richard Eskow asks some excellent questions relative to what Texas Lt. Governor Dan Patrick said during his Monday interview with Tucker Carlson regarding sacrificing one's self for the sake of the Outlaw US Empire's immoral political-economy. It's kinda like Edward G. Robinson's character in Soylent Green sacrificing himself once he learns the truth so others can live from his contribution--his death albeit different from a bovine but done for the same purpose.

IMO, while the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one, those needs must be morally justified. And in the case of Neoliberal political-economy, it's the needs of the one who are to be served by the many sacrificing themselves--the situation is everted, turned inside-out: bassackwards, and clearly immoral.

I see zero replies/comments about the Keiser Reports I linked to earlier today. Guess everyone's too busy sewing masks.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 24 2020 23:53 utc | 100

next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.