Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 13, 2020

News-Nugget About The Coronavirus Pandemic

Excerpts from three current pieces about the novel coronavirus pandemic.

NPR: White House Knew Coronavirus Would Be A 'Major Threat' — But Response Fell Short

In the case of Alex Azar, [the head of Health and Human Services], he did go to the president in January. He did push past resistance from the president's political aides to warn the president the new coronavirus could be a major problem. There were aides around Trump - Kellyanne Conway had some skepticism at times that this was something that needed to be a presidential priority.

But at the same time, Secretary Azar has not always given the president the worst-case scenario of what could happen. My understanding is he did not push to do aggressive additional testing in recent weeks, and that's partly because more testing might have led to more cases being discovered of coronavirus outbreak, and the president had made clear - the lower the numbers on coronavirus, the better for the president, the better for his potential reelection this fall.

So how did that worst-case scenario look?

NYT: The Worst-Case Estimate for U.S. Coronavirus Deaths

Officials at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and epidemic experts from universities around the world conferred last month about what might happen if the new coronavirus gained a foothold in the United States. How many people might die? How many would be infected and need hospitalization?

One of the agency’s top disease modelers, Matthew Biggerstaff, presented the group on the phone call with four possible scenarios — A, B, C and D — based on characteristics of the virus, including estimates of how transmissible it is and the severity of the illness it can cause. The assumptions, reviewed by The New York Times, were shared with about 50 expert teams to model how the virus could tear through the population — and what might stop it.
Between 160 million and 214 million people in the U.S. could be infected over the course of the epidemic, according to one projection. That could last months or even over a year, with infections concentrated in shorter periods, staggered across time in different communities, experts said. As many as 200,000 to 1.7 million people could die.

And, the calculations based on the C.D.C.’s scenarios suggested, 2.4 million to 21 million people in the U.S. could require hospitalization, potentially crushing the nation’s medical system, which has only about 925,000 staffed hospital beds. Fewer than a tenth of those are for people who are critically ill.

That is why we argued that only an early and lasting lockdown can prevent that the health care system goes into overload and that many people who would ordinarily survive would otherwise unnecessarily die.

A U.S. op-ed writer, who was in China during the lockdown, repeats our criticism of the racism that led to the still sluggish response in 'western' countries.

NYT: China Bought the West Time. The West Squandered It.

[F]or weeks now, the attitude toward the coronavirus outbreak in the United States and much of Europe has been bizarrely reactive, if not outright passive — or that the governments in those regions have let pass their best chance to contain the virus’s spread. Having seen a kind of initial denial play out already in China, I feel a sense of déjà vu. But while China had to contend with a nasty, sudden surprise, governments in the West have been on notice for weeks.

It’s as if China’s experience hadn’t given Western countries a warning of the perils of inaction. Instead, many governments seem to have imitated some of the worst measures China put in place, while often turning a blind eye to the best of them, or its successes.
In my experience living in China for weeks during the peak period of the lockdown and talking to various groups beyond the disgruntled elites, people were frustrated, even exasperated, by the containment measures — but they largely supported them, too.

And while some in the West fixated on how China’s system failed to stem the outbreak at first, they were ignoring the aspects of it that worked. There’s nothing authoritarian about checking temperatures at airports, enforcing social distancing or offering free medical care to anyone with Covid-19.

Your host is currently working on a piece about the social, political and geopolitical consequences the pandemic is likely to have. My first outline says that these will be huge and will reverb over several decades. I will have to tone that down.

Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the issue:

Posted by b on March 13, 2020 at 14:00 UTC | Permalink

« previous page | next page »

I would like someone to explain why there have been so few infections and even fewer fatalities on board the cruise ships.

We have 9000 (nine thousand) people, the majority of whom are well over the age of 50, aboard 3 ships that have lived at very close quarters, in a confined environment where Covid19 had been detected.

Where are the infections and where are the dead? By my last count, 6 elderly passengers from the Diamond Princess passed away of complications related to Covid19. It is now over 6 weeks since that incident has taken place. In California, so far, 1 former passenger from the Grand Princess has succumbed and there seems to be 29 infected people that are now under observation or in care.

What am I missing?

Posted by: Guidoamm | Mar 14 2020 5:01 utc | 201

Sorry. Hysteria. China which was ground zero for this particular flavor of a respiratory virus only had about 81,000 cases (so far) out of a population of how many billions? These projections that posit that half the US population will become infected are wildly excessive. And, yes, the fatality rate for COVID 19 is larger than the seasonal flu, it's larger than a small number which is, itself, a small number. You guys have been watching too much disaster porn.

Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Mar 14 2020 5:02 utc | 202

Further to @200

vk is quite right—but in a more significant sense the imputation of teleology more often conceals ideology. Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals is a brilliant critique of how we impute will to processes on the basis of their mere evidence. A consequence of this is overdetermined explanations (like race in Nazism, for example). Nothing is more fraught in explanation than human behaviour, and this becomes more so for historical societies. Entire universes of morality are concealed in seemingly innocent words like 'survival' and 'fitness', more often than not used to mandate horrific solutions as 'natural'. The following quote from Marx is a nice illustration:

"The theory, which is also expressed as a law of nature, that population grows faster than the means of subsistence, is the more welcome to the bourgeois as it silences his conscience, makes hard-heartedness into a moral duty and the consequences of society into the consequences of nature, and finally gives him the opportunity to watch the destruction of the proletariat by starvation as calmly as any other natural event without bestirring himself, and, on the other hand, to regard the misery of the proletariat as its own fault and to punish it. To be sure, the proletarian can restrain his natural instinct by reason, and so, by moral supervision, halt the law of nature in its injurious course of development." - Karl Marx, Wages, December 1847 (emphasis added)

Posted by: Patroklos | Mar 14 2020 5:17 utc | 203

For anyone who cannot exist without buffing their arsehole to a satin sheen every morning, yet is unable to lay in the 157 rolls of toilet paper most contemporary bourgeoisie now regard as de rigeur may I suggest this this for a mere $47.99. You should probably get in fast as the exact same thing was $27.99 5 days ago.
Or do as I used to when living in the tropics where the 'littlest room in the house' (in bourgeois speak) was like a sauna, the fix for that was to hop into the shower straight after yer daily dump.
Honestly humans in the developed word are past saving. The world has suddenly accelerated in the race to get to hell in a handbasket, and what is the first thing they do? Why try to corner the market in watchamacallit, toilet 'tissue'. Fucking crazy doesn't begin to cover it.

Posted by: A User | Mar 14 2020 5:28 utc | 204

Jeff Harrison 203

Most have been watching how China handled the outbreak. It's not just readers of alternate sites that think US will be hit hard due to lack of preparation. It is also the opinion oz mainstream medicine.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 5:32 utc | 205

@SharonM 148

Is the State making you be in lock down?

In effect, yes. My story is that a colleague was in contact with someone coming from an Italy holiday. I worked with that colleague over the days when he supposedly caught the virus. One evening I got a phone call from my boss saying my colleague was affected and all of us had to stay at home the next day. The next day I was called up by a nurse from the public health service citing my contact with the affected person and telling me the rules to stay at home (as prescribed by 'folkehelseinstituttet', lead by ms. Stoltenberg, the sister of the NATO puppet). Now the whole office building is more or less emptied and 'sanitized'. All my colleagues are at home, but no further reports on people affected.

It remains to be seen if this is really a credible disease situation or whether something else is going on.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2020 5:37 utc | 206

A User

There are an amazing number bof amazing facebook remedies for coronavirus apparently. My daughter said she had a scan through some of them the other day.
I'm not sure where crap paper comes into though. If all the food was stripped off supermarket shelves as well as the crap paper then that would make sense cause you gotta eat to shit, but these clowns are just taking the crap paper. The misses done up her shopping list the other day and had crap paper on it but none was to be found.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 5:40 utc | 207

Has anyone else read entirely evidence free tossage, in the Graun?
Headline goes Russian-led troll network based in west Africa uncovered .

Watch the neolibs rediscover the racism that has always lurked beneath their attempt to win votes by lying to minorities and never backing up their morals with the cold hard cash many exploited people need to get back to square one as they take agency away from africans by claiming west african critiques of the dogs breakfast FukUS have made of covid-19 must have been the result of Russian analysis.

Posted by: A User | Mar 14 2020 5:47 utc | 208

Below is a link to Xinhuanet and following it are the story section headings

Seven things China has done right to battle coronavirus


China is a civilization state making the West look highly immature.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 14 2020 5:52 utc | 209

@c1ue 164

So yes, connect the dots. Why is Italy worse than the US - when the US trades far more?

Because the US sees it as a war about economic supremacy? The US has no problem trading with China. The problem starts when China trades with other countries. The US is waging a war against european countries by forcing them to sanction on Russia (while itself trading with Russia), sabotaging Nord Stream 2, and now we have this mishap in Italy which happens to trade with China. Connect the dots indeed.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2020 5:56 utc | 210

vk (@60)

I did not provide a link...

Anyway, the research paper is available. I've just checked in person and also phoned colleagues. It has not been "disappeared" or anything.

Your attempt to smear the veracity of said research paper in the manner you did is itself shady. Shame on you for that! You have not read the paper (which I doubt you could have done since it has not been published in English script -other than the abstract- and I'm guessing you do not read 中文). Shady indeed.

You comment, "...unless the autopsies of the deaths being reported also replicate the false positives of the tests"...

THAT there is THE vexatious issue. How can it be known that the reported casualties attributed to corona do not replicate the inaccuracies of the tests themselves? How can it be known with certainty that the cause of death was corona virus in each individual case? With the test being wildly inaccurate (anything from 47% to +80% false positive) that means that the cause of death for each patient is not certain. Assuming each of the deceased was tested for the presence or absence of corona virus (a great big assumption) the result would be somewhere between 47% to +80% false positives.

Oh dear. The uncertainty!

The reality is that most of the deceased presented with existing pathologies, for example, chronic lung disease (often due to smoking), impaired immune response, pre-existing age related illness and disability, latent infections (esp. TB), use of pharmaceutical product (whether prescribed or not), other infection types, poor nutrition (never, ever underestimate the deleterious effects of this), etc. Not all the patients were tested for the corona virus either- so how do we even begin to think we know what they had going on?

What did each die of exactly? Was it the common cold? Was it corona, some other virus or bacteria or parasite? Was it from iatrogenic causes (for examples, undergoing treatment for the wrong ailment- a startlingly common cause of death in hospitals- or simply by being restricted in unsanitary and/or stressful conditions)?

There is much to be uncertain of.

Perhaps checking up on latent TB rates and recent outbreaks of same might yield some telling data. One would need to review and check...


Many people like to have convenient answers wrapped up in a simple narrative so they can continue to worship some blind faith ideology or other. They become most troubled, prone to emotionalism even, when they encounter uncertainty. The terrible encounter with uncertainty insults their faith. That's too bad since uncertainty is so commonly encountered in this life.

Time to be a-ponderin' on two of H L Menken's sayings:

- For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

- The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

Posted by: Siotu | Mar 14 2020 5:56 utc | 211

@lysias 166

Mutations may occur randomly, but survival of the fittest dtermines which mutations survive.

So from this theory, a single cell can mutate into a human being, given enough time? I don't think so, the mathematics don't add up, Darwin was probably wrong. And I am no believer in gods either.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2020 6:02 utc | 212

re Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 5:40 utc |
Yeah I just got back this afternoon from getting my disabled son to Brisbane, by the time we were ready to go I was in two minds about going at all cause of the virus, but my youngest bloke has been determined to get to his country of birth for too long and the tickets were an Xmas pressie, I just couldn't let him down like that. My daughter who he is staying with hasn't beem able to jag any paper anywhere in Brizzy for more 'n a week, she wouldn't let me sling any paper in the bags (why I dunno women's bizness was the best I could think of) but she did let me throw in a mob of assorted pastas - all of which were made in Oz and all of which like toilet paper are readily available throughout Aotearoa but not in Qld.
Greedy people being greedy & stupid is all these shortages are IMO.

Posted by: A User | Mar 14 2020 6:05 utc | 213

Testing for coronavirus in an autopsy or living person is as easy as looking through a micrascope and positively identifying the bug. Just a bit slow or labour-electron microscope intensive for wholesale testing of populations.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 6:26 utc | 214

Timing of this virus seems spectacularly convenient as it extends the suppression of dissent (already well underway) just as things are heating up in the Middle East and accelerates the US-China decoupling (also having been well underway).


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 14 2020 6:31 utc | 215

Apologies if this info is old news on this thread. I'm still on Page 1.

I caught CGTN News from Beijing last night. China is reporting that 70% of its 80,000+ Coronavirus patients have made a full recovery. And Chinese scientists are now looking forward to examining the antibodies they expect to find in those individuals. They hope to use the data to produce a treatment and a vaccine.
Pure speculation but I won't be at all surprised if China emerges from this crisis with twice as many BFFs* as it had nurtured before the crisis. AmeriKKKa's Fake Christian anti-Christs won't be happy...

*Best Friends Forever.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 14 2020 6:33 utc | 216

I thought I would share this timeline in 2 sections. No analysis from me.

Part I

2002 -Godfather of corona virus (Ralph Baric of UNC ) patents process for vaccine.

2003-SARS coronavirus released

2003 After the SARS outbreak Shi Zhengli led a team to collect bat samples across the country for virus detection.

2008-Biolake established in Wuhan. Biolake has become home to more than 1,800 bio firms and over 50,000 highly-skilled professionals, with annual output exceeding 120 billion yuan ($17.76 billion).

2010-Study by Rockefeller Foundation on impact of a coronavirus like pandemic on society and governance, . One scenario envisioned is “Lock Step: A world of tighter top-down government control and more authoritarian leadership, with limited innovation and growing citizen pushback.”

2010 -Shi Zhengli’s team published a paper to examine the sensitivity of different types of bat ACE2 to human SARS-CoV spike protein (S protein) using live SARS virus and HIV (AIDS) pseudovirus.

2013-MERS-CoV released. First known case was in Jordan (retrospectively) but announced during outbreak in Saudi Arabia some months later in September

October 30, 2013, Nature magazine published a paper entitled “Isolation and characterization of a bat SARS-like Coronavirus that uses the ACE2 receptor“, from the research team including Ge Xingyi, Shi Zhengli, Dasak and other experts from Yunnan. The entire genome sequence of the new coronaviruses RsSHC014 and Rs3367 isolated from the chrysanthemum bat (horse hoof bat). Shi Zhengli provided the SHC014 Coronavirus S protein sequence and plasmid, which is her field of expertise.

2014 Shi Zhengli received a $665,000 grant from NIH for a study titled The Ecology of Bat Coronaviruses and the Risk of Future Coronavirus Emergence (NIAID R01 AI1 10964) as well as $559,500 more from USAID for a study titled Emerging Pandemic Threats PREDICT_2China (Project No. AID-OAA-A-14-00102). 

2015 The Wuhan Institute of Virology openthe first biosafety level 4 (BSL–4) laboratory to be built in mainland China.

2015 MERS From May to July , a large outbreak of MERS initiated by an infected traveler from the Arabian Peninsula swept South Korea and resulted in 186 confirmed cases and 38 deaths.

November 9, 2015 Ralph Baric of UNC and Shi Zhengli jointly published a study on their efforts to engineer a virus with the surface protein of the SHC014 coronavirus, found in horseshoe bats in China, and the backbone of one that causes human-like severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in mice.
Funding for this project was from the DoD

2016- iD2020 alliance established, funded by Bill Gates and others. A strategic, global initiative launched in response to the Sustainable Development Goal 16.9: “provide legal identity to all, including birth registration, by 2030”, in collaboration with the United Nations Office for Partnerships.

2017-World Bank issues 300 million in Pandemic Bonds. Default triggered should a pandemic be declared before July 2020. Gates funded WHO declares Pandemic on March 11-2020 after over 110,000 cases, in over 110 countries. Note all the 11’s here

2017- CEPI was founded in Davos by the governments of Norway and India, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the Wellcome Trust, and the World Economic Forum in 2017. Its mission is to stimulate and accelerate the development of vaccines against emerging infectious diseases and enable access to these vaccines for people during outbreaks.

July 18, 2019 .The CDC sent a cease and desist order to USAMRIID concerning the Fort Detrick laboratory. USAMRIID would not return to fully operational status until meeting benchmark requirements for biosafety. USAMRIID had been working on modified biosafety level 3 procedures and a new decontamination system since flooding in May 2018. USAMRIID scientists were also working with the Ebola virus in a biosafety level 4 lab. Partially reopens in November with embedded CDC researchers. Nice cover story.

September 20, 2019 - ID2020 and partners launch program to provide digital ID with vaccines

October 18, 2019 Bill Gates funded study of Event 201 at Hopkins University simulating a coronavirus pandemic. Attended by George Gao of China CDC

Nov 17 , 2019. Earliest case according to the South China Morning Post who also reported Chinese authorities had identified at least 266 people who contracted the virus last year and who came under medical surveillance before authorities announced the emergence of the new virus.

November 20 2019 . A patent is approved related to coronavirus vaccines is owned by Pirbright Institute (formerly the Institute for Animal Health) which is partially owned or funded by the Gates foundation.

Posted by: Pft | Mar 14 2020 6:53 utc | 217

December 29, according to Caixin the industry leader Huada Gene (Shenzhen, China) completed a case of gene sequencing, and the results showed that the virus and SARS gene sequence similarity was as high as 80%.

On December 31, 2019, the Wuhan Municipal Health and Health Commission announced multiple cases of pneumonia were related to the South China seafood market.

On December 31, the first expert group of the National Health Commission on December 31, 2019. Peng Zhiyong, director of Critical Care Medicine confirmed the diagnostic criteria was 1)have a history of exposure to the South China seafood market; 2) have a fever Symptoms; 3) whole genome sequencing. All three criteria are required to confirm the diagnosis.

On January 1, 2020, the South China Seafood Market was closed for a environmental sanitation rectification.
Presumably the confiscated all live animals and tested them. They have not reported which animals if any tested positive. No bats are sold in the market.

On January 1, Huida Genes three sample test reports were reported to the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission.

On Jan 2 , Wang Yanyi, director of ‪Wuhan‬ Institute of Virology, issued a notice to researchers, forbidding anyone to release info the virus without permission.

On Jan 5, Zhang’s Yongzhens team at Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre isolated and finished the genome sequence of the then-unknown virus on January 5. The Shanghai centre reported its discovery to the National Health Commission on the same day

Jan 9, China’s officially announces that mysterious pneumonia cases in Wuhan were caused by a hitherto unknown coronavirus.

Jan 11. Zhangs team made the finding public after it saw that the authorities had taken no obvious action to warn the public about the coronavirus.

Jan 12. According to an article in SCMP today the laboratory at the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre was ordered to close for “rectification” on January 12, a day after Professor Zhang Yongzhen’s team published the genome sequence on open platforms.

January 18, the second group of experts such as Zhong Nanshan of the National Health Commission on December 31, 2019 revised the diagnostic criteria after 16 consecutive days of NO NEW CASES (clearly impossible)

On January 22, Gao Fu, director of the National Center for Disease Control and Prevention, said that the source of the New Coronavirus in Wuhan was wild animals illegally sold in a seafood market in Wuhan.

On January 23, 2020, Wuhan declared lockdown. Subsequent cities and provinces followed in the next days but a few million people had already departed Wuhan by this time for the weeklong New Year Holidays .

Also on January 23, the Shi Zhengli team published an article on bioRxiv preprinted version of the platform titled, “A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin.” The report proposed that the new Wuhan Coronavirus was derived from bats. The paper was subsequently published in the journal Nature on February 3.

The article stated that they found that the sequence of the novel Coronavirus was 96.2% identical to that of the Coronavirus numbered RaTG13 derived from Yunnan horseshoe bats

January 24, Netflix releases Pandemic series, a documentary about a future pandemic, funded by Bill Gates and obviously production began well before the Wuhan pandemic

On January 26, the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention said that 33 samples tested positive for the New Coronavirus nucleic acid out of 585 environmental samples taken from the South China Seafood Market . They announced that the virus originated from wild animals sold in the South China Seafood Market but did not identify which animals.

On Jan 27th, Shi Zhengli submitted the registration information of RaTG13 bat virus referred to in her Jan 23 preprint article, showing that the virus was isolated from the feces of Yunnan horseshoe bats (chrysanthemum bat) as early as July 24, 2013. It was never mentioned in any of her previous papers. Must of been locked away in an ice box for 7 years or something.

On January 27th a report published online by Science cited a paper in the medical journal The Lancet, suggesting that the source of the New Coronavirus pneumonia in Wuhan may not be the South China seafood market.

The paper, titled “Clinical Features of New Coronavirus Infected Patients“, was published in The Lancet on January 24. The first author of the paper was Huang Chao Lin, the deputy director of Jinyintan Hospital, the first designated hospital for unknown pneumonia in Wuhan. The rest of the authors included other clinicians in the hospital and members of several research institutions.

This paper revealed the following key information:
* The first patient had an onset of disease on December 1st, which was not associated with the seafood market.
* The first patient had no epidemic association with subsequent patients.
* On December 10th, another 3 cases had occurred, of which 2 were not related to South China seafood market.
* Starting from December 15th, cases with a history of exposure to the seafood market are concentrated.
* The paper counts a total of 41 patients, and 14 cases are not related to the seafood market, the proportion exceeds 1/3.
* No bats are sold in the seafood market and no trace of bats has been found.

On January 29 a study in The Lancet analyzed 99 confirmed cases at Jinyintan Hospital, 50 of which had no history of contact with the seafood market.

The New England Journal of Medicine also published a paper showing that: Of the 425 cases, 45% of those affected before January 1 had no history of exposure to the seafood market.

Why did China require that the “history of seafood market contact” be included in the diagnosis criteria up until January 18 when it knew that at least one third of the cases are not related to the seafood market?

On February 7th, Liu Yahong, President of South China Agricultural University, revealed that researchers from South China Agricultural University, Lingnan Guangdong Provincial Laboratory of Modern Agriculture, Shen Yongyi, Xiao Lihua and other researchers analyzed a thousand metagenome samples and found a β-crown on pangolins. The virus they said may be closely related to Wuhan Coronavirus.

Shen Yongyi of Huanong Veterinary College Research Institute stated in an interview that the pangolin samples found to carry the virus did not come from Guangdong, and were “obtained from certain institutions.” He admits that no such virus was found in the samples of common Chinese pangolins collected by themselves. As to why “a specific agency” took the initiative to provide them with these special samples, it was not mentioned in the report.

Posted by: Pft | Mar 14 2020 6:56 utc | 218

I can only imagine too many here have forgotten or never been made aware of the horror that was 'H.L. Mencken' american fascist, anti-egalitarian and one of shrub's heroes who preached nonsense such as state support = charity = theft from taxpayers. Meanwhile those who enrich themselves by making others into paupers were 'amerikan heroes'.
Mencken the typical little man scared of those bigger or smarter than himself has long been the basis for the so - called 'alt-rights' attempt to make white supremacy appear respectable.
If people quote this worthless prick so be it, but readers should be aware of the fucked up philosophy behind Mencken's seemingly simplistic truisms.

Posted by: A User | Mar 14 2020 7:16 utc | 219

Testing for coronavirus in US. Worth reading the thread at the link.
"THREAD: Last Thursday I was admitted to the ER w/ #coronavirus symptoms, including chronic cough, shortness of breath & lung pain. I was given a #COVID19 test and told I’d have the results within 48 hrs. Nearly a week later, I still don’t have the results. 1/N #covid19purgatory"

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 7:17 utc | 220

Prof Michel Chossudovsky

He nailed it.

Posted by: Nick | Mar 14 2020 7:29 utc | 221

Norwegian @ 213

You might find the following of interest:

Giving Up Darwin

A fond farewell to a brilliant and beautiful theory.

by David Gelernter

Mathematical Challenges to Darwin’s Theory of Evolution

57:13 min

Has Darwinism really failed? Peter Robinson discusses it with David Berlinski, David Gelernter, and Stephen Meyer, who have raised doubts about Darwin’s theory in their two books and essay, respectively The Deniable Darwin, Darwin’s Doubt, and “Giving Up Darwin” (published in the Claremont Review of Books).

Posted by: pogohere | Mar 14 2020 7:38 utc | 222

@218 Pft | Mar 14 2020 6:53 utc

"November 20 2019 . A patent is approved related to coronavirus vaccines is owned by Pirbright Institute (formerly the Institute for Animal Health) which is partially owned or funded by the Gates foundation."

Perhaps old wily William Gates is now distancing himself from the Microsoft ca$h-cow (just resigned as chairman) in case the heat comes on too strong?

Posted by: imo | Mar 14 2020 7:38 utc | 223

"Researchers at the South China Agricultural University in Guangzhou suggested pangolins as the animal source at a press conference on 7 February. Pangolins are highly sought-after in China for their meat and their scales; the latter are used in traditional medicine. Although sales of the animal are forbidden in China as part of a worldwide ban, they are still smuggled in from a handful of southeast Asian and African countries. The researchers said they had found a coronavirus in smuggled pangolins that was a 99% genetic match to the virus circulating in people.

But the result did not actually refer to the entire genome. In fact, it related to a specific site known as the receptor-binding domain (RBD), say the study’s authors, who posted their analysis1 on the biomedical preprint server bioRxiv on 20 February. The press-conference report was the result of an “embarrassing miscommunication between the bioinformatics group and the lab group of the study”, explains Xiao Lihua, a parasitologist at the South China Agricultural University and a co-author of the paper. A whole-genome comparison found that the pangolin and human viruses share 90.3% of their DNA.

The RBD is a crucial part of coronaviruses, which allows them to latch on to and enter a cell. Even a 99% similarity between the RBDs of the two viruses is not necessarily enough to link them, says Linfa Wang, a virologist at Duke–National University of Singapore Medical School who was part of the team that found the origin of the SARS virus."

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 7:40 utc | 224

This certainly adds weight to the made in the US origins of coronavirus.
"The Trump administration rejected a Reuters report that quoted anonymous officials who said meetings on coronavirus were treated as classified, therefore limiting the government’s response to the crisis, which a National Security Council spokesperson said was “fake news,” while Reuters stands by its story."
Exclusive: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations - sources

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 8:06 utc | 225

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 7:17 utc | 221

Peter, that tweet from from Mr. Carvin has the same nefarious odor for me that I smelled in the case of AIPAC booming fake news to the Masses that it was also struck by the wicket Covid-19 of the People Of China. How did I come to that conspiratorial conclusion ? Here is how,

Andy Carvin @acarvin
Sr Fellow, @AtlanticCouncil

I don't have any great desire to debate why I take such a stand but suffices it to say "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".

Another Newsguard advisor of note is Richard Stengel, former editor of Time magazine, a “distinguished fellow” at the Atlantic Council and Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy under President Barack Obama. At a panel discussion hosted last May by the Council on Foreign Relations, Stengel described his past position at the State Department as “chief propagandist” and also stated that he is “not against propaganda. Every country does it and they have to do it to their own population and I don’t necessarily think it’s that awful.”


Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 14 2020 8:06 utc | 226


Thanks. I hadn't checked his bio blurb.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 8:10 utc | 227

Lijian Zhao spokesman for China foreign ministry is sticking it to the US. Considering whitehouse has classified talks on coronavirus, US quite likely have something to hide.

Some of Zhao's tweets.

1. Chinese spox: We hope certain US officials could focus on domestic response & international cooperation instead of trying to shift the blame to China by denigrating Chinese efforts to fight the epidemic. This is immoral & irresponsible, & will not help mitigate COVID-19 in US.

2. Chinese spox: Some US official accuses China of "covering up". Well, the world knows better whether China is open & transparent. We do not comment on if US response is open & transparent, but obviously, someone in US still turns a deaf ear to international appraisal on China.

3. Chinese spox: Countries like Singapore, ROK took necessary measures & put the epidemics under control because they made full use of this precious time China bought for the world. As for whether US availed itself of this window, I believe the fact is witnessed by US &the world.

4. Chinese spox: As a Chinese saying goes, "Turn inward & examine yourself when you encounter difficulties." We urge the US officials to respect facts. Every minute wasted on smearing & complaining would be better spent on enhancing domestic response & international cooperation.

Some #influenza deaths were actually infected with #COVID-19, Robert Redfield from US #CDC admitted at the House of Representatives. US reported 34 million cases of influenza and 20,000 deaths. Please tell us how many are related to COVID-19?

1/2 CDC Director Robert Redfield admitted some Americans who seemingly died from influenza were tested positive for novel #coronavirus in the posthumous diagnosis, during the House Oversight Committee Wednesday.

2/2 CDC was caught on the spot. When did patient zero begin in US? How many people are infected? What are the names of the hospitals? It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan. Be transparent! Make public your data! US owe us an explanation!

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 8:53 utc | 228

Here is a table showing the "doubling time" of the spread of the virus for various countries.
Italy's doubling time is 4 days, which brought its health care system near to collapse. Note that the US doubling time is 3 days! And this may be an underestimate because testing has been hindered, and many case are undetected. The doubling time for China is an impressive 32 days.

Posted by: atomician | Mar 14 2020 8:55 utc | 229

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 8:10 utc | 228
No problem Peter :-)

To further the discussion on Covid-19 in the US I would like to introduce a MIT grad Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai.

Ayyadurai's undergraduate degree from MIT was in electrical engineering and computer science; he took a master's degree in visual studies from the MIT Media Laboratory on scientific visualization; concurrently, he completed another master's degree in mechanical engineering, also from MIT; and in 2007, he obtained a Ph.D. in biological engineering from MIT in systems biology, with his thesis focusing on modeling the whole cell by integrating molecular pathway models.[17][18][19] In 2007, he was awarded a Fulbright U.S. Student Program grant to study the integration of Siddha, a system of traditional medicine developed in South India, with modern systems biology.[20][17]

I first came across him when someone gave a link to this video,

Donald Trump did the RIGHT thing on pulling out of Paris Accords
This presentation on how the Climate Change Ponzi Scheme works I found to be one of the most complete hence I find him worth listening to.

It turns out he has a new presentation on Covid-19.

Warning: he is a mild/warm supporter of Trump. He is selling himself but heck you have to show your strongest cards to get people to listen to you. So here we go,

Dr. Shiva on Covid-19

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 14 2020 9:00 utc | 230

It's been suggested, that here in the UK, we should take over private hospitals and clinics, it is after all, a national emergency. It's what we did in WWII. And of course, after it's all over, why bother to give them back?

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 14 2020 9:09 utc | 231

Posted by: vk | Mar 13 2020 22:17 utc | 140

So, I'll repeat this basic, universal principle of the theory of evolution: RNA/DNA mutations always - always - happen randomly. There's no teleology in evolution and natural selection.

True, but it's only the viable ones that replicate, hence the essentially 'random' nature of mutations, until one come along that 'fits' the new environment. Generally speaking, viruses mutate to less dangerous versions, after all, the virus NEEDS a host, else it disappears, but sometimes they evolve into more dangerous versions.

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 14 2020 9:37 utc | 232

Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 5:40 utc | 208

Crap paper? They are being taken off the shelves to print dollars on.

(just saying.....)

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 14 2020 9:51 utc | 233

Interesting statistics (scroll down and move the mouse on the curve to see the figures)
NL and UK started announcing cases officially at the same time, very end of February. In both countries, the local news had been reporting cases for weeks but these were not in the WHO stats. It seems NL/UK moved only after US green light to. When the virus had been spread by air travelers to the four corners of the world, that is.
Switzerland is still seeing a peak although it took strong measures before most EU countries, when the numbers from Italy were starting to rise quickly.
Belgium is the funniest of all (it has 30,000 ppl just working for the commission, without the MPs - all frequent travelers and meeting with frequent travelers - cf because it also started to declare its cases 29/2 when the radio had actually mentioning already a number of cases within the EU buildings.Better even, it reports no new case for yesterday!

Posted by: Mina | Mar 14 2020 9:51 utc | 234

Vaccine is looking to be a growth business.

But concerns lurk, unnoticed for the most part. Despite the above gains measles is reemerging as a serious public health threat, and outbreaks are occurring even in highly developed countries where vaccine access, public health infrastructure, and health literacy are not significant issues. This is unexpected and a worrisome harbinger - measles outbreaks are occurring where they are least expected. As illustrated in the Table, since 2005 these outbreaks have also occurred in the U.S.—with surprising numbers of cases occurring in persons who previously received one or even two documented doses of measles-containing vaccine. In fact, as of September 2011, the U.S. has had 15 measles outbreaks with 211 confirmed cases—the highest number of cases since 1996 [1;2].

Thus, measles outbreaks also occur even among highly vaccinated populations because of primary and secondary vaccine failure, which results in gradually larger pools of susceptible persons and outbreaks once measles is introduced [8]. This leads to a paradoxical situation whereby measles in highly immunized societies occurs primarily among those previously immunized.

Solution: Get another vaccine. That reminds me, isn't that the Gate's Windows Software Model of never ending upgrades to Hell ?

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 14 2020 9:57 utc | 235


Greg Shupak (Mar 13, 2020):

"If anyone is short on #toiletpaper paper, I’ve got Ayn Rand’s two biggest novels."

Posted by: imo | Mar 14 2020 10:18 utc | 236

A total lock down here would never work or be abided. We’ve got dumbasses here who would break quarantine to visit girlfriend/boyfriend. People would burn down their house trying to boil an egg. Then if stores were closed without full protection, there would be mass looting everywhere. We see it during every natural disaster.

Posted by: Lisa P | Mar 14 2020 10:19 utc | 237

Guess what! Austerity was a joke, no use for it.
The Parliament's President David Sassoli said Saturday the “serious” nature of the situation requires a collective response, as opposed to unilateral action.

He said:

This situation is so serious that no European government could think of responding save our countries, we must act together in Europe.
All European countries will receive support for their health systems. This means the supply of materials, support to hospitals, and financing research to develop a vaccine as soon as possible.
According to Sassoli, the new measures will also include commitments to safeguard and protect jobs and businesses, while sustaining the European economy.

“Enough with austerity. Countries are authorized to spend everything that is necessary to guarantee support for employees, self-employed workers, businesses, and banks,” Sassoli said.

The EU has earmarked at least 37 billion euros ($41.2 billion) from the budget for programs designed to help European states tackle the economic impact of the crisis.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 14 2020 10:30 utc | 238

"Dangerous levels of egregious dumbfuckery" + "A Munted Shitshow"

"Honest Government Ad | Coronavirus: Flatten The Curve"

Posted by: imo | Mar 14 2020 10:35 utc | 239

@ Tom_LX | Mar 14 2020 9:00 utc | 231

Many thanks for the link of the video of Dr. Shiva I agree a lot with what he is saying, I support his view that the underlying conditions of people is the leading cause of death in this epidemic, not really only the virus itself, as all the medical sources are saying. And I agree about the underlying health situation of the population and the way to manage health care in many coutries is criminal (poisonous diet, air, water, GMO's, sugar, stress, etc...) but at the end you have YET those inmunocompromised people living with you, around you, or may be you are one of them, what do you do to protect them RIGHT NOW?

He is talking about the past, what the authorities, the academy, the CDC, the health care system should have been doing, but we have the problem NOW with all those old and immunocompromised people living NOW and wanting to be alive many years more; about this I do not buy his affirmation that "all is fearmongering", "it is an exageration", and "Trump has made exactly the right decisions all the time about Coronavirus", in this part he is a MAGA hooligan, and a politician trying to improve his chances to be elected to the Senate, even if I consider he is much better prepared and with a message more true and clear than any I have heard before, he is worth to be voted by the american people in "normal" times

Posted by: DFC | Mar 14 2020 10:36 utc | 240

The statemnt that the US military "shut-down Ft Detrick Maryland" bio-weapons research lab is obtuse at best.
If the military shuts-down a weapons development project it would be because it did not show promise relative to cost.
I think the more likely scenario is the US military relocated its military research operation or even that the function was moved to a different department - bad press.
Anywayit appears a given the the virus is man made, question is was release intentional, if so by who and for what purpose. That is a worthwhile discussion apart from how to best respond to the virus.
Also it seems that leaving aside the possibility of US-Israel involvement (driven economic/military objectives but with religious bond). It would be well to consider the path that humanity has taken - is it sustainable and do we benefit from this? What is to be done to remove the motivation for what appears to be a bad outcome.
The world needs to stop looking to the US for direction.

Posted by: jared | Mar 14 2020 10:38 utc | 241

Posted by: DFC | Mar 14 2020 10:36 utc | 241

I have an engineering background but Systems are something that speak to me. Hence when I saw his video on Climate Scam I knew the guy is on the level. What he says about the immune system makes sense to me but that is about it. I'm no doctor in the medical field.
Great I could add something of worth. Cheers :-)

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 14 2020 10:53 utc | 242

jared | Mar 14 2020 10:38 utc | 242

Fort Detrick was given a "cease and desist" message from the FBI because of over 1'000 leaks and thefts. (which happened over a period of years, as it was considered to be a risk to the local population) It has since been reopened.

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 14 2020 11:02 utc | 243

imo #240

Thanks for the laugh. They are legends.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 14 2020 11:07 utc | 244

This myth of SARS-CoV-2 origination of "Chinese Bat-soup" is total nonsense -and also an attempt of "China-Bashing".

And also remember: If Adam and Eve had been Chinese they would not have eaten the apple - but the snake. And we would still be in Paradise!

Posted by: Joerg | Mar 14 2020 11:30 utc | 245 - sad to witness actually

Posted by: GMJ | Mar 14 2020 11:53 utc | 246

When Trump keeps the UK outside of his ban, he is letting the UK become the main hub of EU/UK transatlantic flights. Or does his ban applies to European citizens as a whole? That still leave those who have more than one citizenship. It would mean more contaminations in the UK to be expected. Great friend!

Posted by: Mina | Mar 14 2020 11:53 utc | 247

@Guidoamm #202
The infection rate for nCOV is high, but isn't that high. Even on the first cruise ship, under 20% of the people caught it.
Secondly, if you do catch it: even if you're one of the 20% that develops serious respiratory problems - it isn't Stage 4 cancer.
If you get treatment right away, you're still likely to live. The problem is when people don't get it right away because they think it is just a bad flu.
If you get serious respiratory problems, don't get treated, deteriorate to serious pneumonia, then even radical treatments might not save you.
Note that the virus itself doesn't cause pneumonia. Pneumonia is a condition, not a specific disease. The virus likes to replicate in the upper respiratory tract - that's why it spreads relatively well. The process of replication induces a lot of cell death - infected cell explodes, releasing more virii which infects more cells, etc. These aren't internal cells - they're air-facing which means bacteria can then invade. It is mostly the bacteria which cause the serious pneumonia.
The other way people die is because they have poor pulmonary system function. If you smoke, if you're obese, if you're old - all of these generally mean you have a weaker/weak cardiovascular system. The cells which nCOV attacks in the lungs puts tremendous pressure on the pulmonary system. Weak pulmonary system = less oxygen for the hearts/organs/system. I think you can see why this is not good.
The above cause:
1) acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS)
2) irregular heart rate (arrhythmia)
3) cardiovascular shock
4) severe muscle pain (myalgia)
5) fatigue
6) heart damage or heart attack

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 14 2020 11:54 utc | 248

@225 mentioned RBD

Japanese media reporting that malaria drugs are working ヒドロキシクロロキン (Hydroxychloroquine) which was also been reported by China to work.

Posted by: r | Mar 14 2020 11:54 utc | 249

We here in the UK are taking this is our state of play.. 1/2 million views since yesterday 13 March........

Posted by: MW51 | Mar 14 2020 11:57 utc | 250

UK super-spreaders see no problem in mass tourism

Posted by: Mina | Mar 14 2020 11:59 utc | 251

@pogohere 233
Thank you! Yes I have seen that conversation about Mathematical Challenges to Darwin’s Theory of Evolution. It has made a mark in me. I will read that article by Gelernter!

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2020 12:06 utc | 252

pogohere @ 223

Your first link starts in by referring to the fundamentalist Discovery Institute and its ludicrous Intelligent Design thesis. It follows the standard line of over-focusing on protein evolution, while ignoring gene duplications that set up gain of function evolution, ignoring hox box duplications that can change the number of limbs and body sections, and generally being ignorant of epigenetics, and "non-coding" RNA - which turns out to be coding after all.

Stephen Jay Gould had already been down the trail of speciation and Darwin's theory's inability to handle it - without resorting to religious crapola.

As for David Gelertner, the man was a conservative before he was blown up by the Unabomber. He is trained as a computer scientist, not a biologist. The bombing seems to have turned him into a raging reactionary who is quite popular with the ultra-right in the US.

Not buying any of this fundamentalist propaganda.

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 14 2020 12:14 utc | 253

Tom_LX #231

Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai??? you mean the famous "inventor of email"... "science is not settled on vaccines" ... launcher of defamation lawsuits (they're saying mean things about me). Oh that guy.

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 14 2020 12:17 utc | 254

@207 Norwegian

Thank you, Norwegian:)
I read about Jens Stoltenberg last night--the brother of Ms. Stoltenberg you made me aware of, thank you. Very interesting reading. NATO puppet is the nice way to describe him:)
I'm guessing even more panicky fear-mongering will occur in autumn of this year, when this flu will be expected to return.

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 14 2020 12:27 utc | 255

@Tom_LX 236

Solution: Get another vaccine. That reminds me, isn't that the Gate's Windows Software Model of never ending upgrades to Hell ?

Yes, and it is even called "antivirus". I have used Windows since mid 1990's (now more and more Linux) and have never installed antivirus software. I have never had a "virus". Guess who benefits from spreading software viruses? This "business model" can certainly be applied outside cyberspace also.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2020 12:27 utc | 256

@ Walter 174 (" Are you not applying the fallacy of implication? Who is this 'man' boiling water and why is he? You are eliding the fact of evidence of boiling water with your interpretation of some underlying intention. That's a very dangerous leap. Posted by: Patroklos | Mar 14 2020 4:55 utc | 200)

I believe you missed my point. If it's deliberate, it's not random.

The idea that random origin of anything is infact random is obvious - I agree.

"the Man boiling the water" is the boffin down at the bio-lab using and curating, "placing his thumb on the process-scale" - this is to say that the idea that CV19 may be the product of random events is, as experts say, (probably) impossible is Independent of what happens when random events are distorted by man with very special tools and knowledge. We manipulate "random" all the time - it's one of the things that intelligent animals do.

Wally would observe that "random" has a multitude of forms itself.

Crypto experts worry about "true random", bracketed random, limited random and so forth... my savant brother is the mathematician, I am not... I recall that "true random" machine was made at MIT about 1960 - it was a leaky CRT as I recall. Of course the random field, being extracted from the electron beam, was "only random" in a small and chosen deliberately field area and at a defined distance... Wally has a random noise machine - a high gain audio amp with a leaky diode at the input - It does not emit (much) outside of audio that random? Obviously not. The matter of true random is, in the real world, only an idea, Friend.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 14 2020 12:29 utc | 257


So I’m going to show why Shiva Ayyadurai isn’t credible

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 14 2020 12:31 utc | 258

@246 Joerg | Mar 14 2020 11:30 utc

As for origins, I find the theme at this site (below) very plausible (although I suspect just sloppy head-in-sand sh_t rather than deliberate bio-war -- but who knows?). I and extended family were in Hawaii for a New Year 2019 holiday. Most adults came down with something and the older folk with a terrible bug. Not the kids. I survived until the last day and then spent 2-3 weeks with real serious flu-like illness (into the chest) back home. Sounds a lot like this; or an early variant of it -- the place did not feel clean. Millions of Chinese tourists milling around in Honolulu and tribes of mainland Americans on Maui. Food was poor, sweet (fructose); and lacking something essential (minerals?). A real soup for brewing viral mutations etc.

I cannot verify this site's credibility -- it gets "mixed" on various checklists. However, this story (which is all I'm interested in) reads highly plausible to me (being white, male, 65, type-2, over-weight and now with lymph node issues) -- a prime target. Video clips are included.

For what it is worth:
"Breaking/Exclusive: US Brought COVID19 to China with Fake Army Team for Military Games, Evidence Mounting"

Posted by: imo | Mar 14 2020 12:54 utc | 259

douglass truth | Mar 13 2020 15:30 utc | 18:
arby | Mar 13 2020 19:35 utc | 94:For those getting the "file not found" error from douglass truth @ 18 link, Stacey Reiman provided a link to a PDF version of it: Notes from a UCSF panelThe PDF seems to be cutting off some info at the top header; no idea if important.

Posted by: Ian2 | Mar 14 2020 4:05 utc | 195

Apparently the person who originally tweeted this was asked by the panelists to take it down because the notes didn't have the full context of the panel discussion.  They especially felt that the mortality figures are still somewhat speculative and weren't endorsed by them.

Good panel discussion on coronavirus from a UCSF expert panel:

Some key points:

At this point, we are past containment. Containment is basically futile. Our containment efforts won’t reduce the number who get infected in the US.

Based on observations from Chinese clinical treatments, while children can get COVID-19 and be infectious, they don't tend to develop severe symptoms that lead to death

I take issue a bit with these extrapolations: (note: these extrapolations were done by the notetaker, that is why he bracketed it)

[We used their numbers to work out a guesstimate of deaths— indicating about 1.5 million Americans may die. The panelists did not disagree with our estimate. This compares to seasonal flu’s average of 50K Americans per year. Assume 50% of US population, that’s 160M people infected. With 1% mortality rate that's 1.6M Americans die over the next 12-18 months.]  

The fatality rate is in the range of 10X flu.The death rate varies hugely by age. 

Over age 80 the mortality rate could be 10-15%. 

When they assume 50% infection rate they are including a lot of young people so not sure the 1% mortality would hold.  

Might be more reasonable to use the 10x worse than the flu and multiply by the 50K usual flu deaths which would give a number of 500,000.

Then also most of those 50,000 actually die of bacterial pneumonia complicating the viral infection and could have possibly been treated by antibiotics but most were very aged and near death.In contrast many of the coronavirus patients may be healthier. 

This could make a more reasonable number maybe around 100,000 to 200,000 (better than 1.6 million anyway)

Posted by: financial matters | Mar 13 2020 12:24 utc | 384

Posted by: financial matters | Mar 14 2020 13:06 utc | 260

India (estimated population: 1.4 billion) just enacted a legacy British Colonial Act (1897) which refers to 1860 for penalties.


One can only imagine the whipping and horse-drawn quartering:

"3. Penalty.—Any person disobeying any regulation or order made under this Act shall be deemed to have committed an offence punishable under section 188 of the Indian Penal Code (45 of 1860)."

A copy of the 3-page Indian Act (1897) can found here.

"2. Power to take special measures and prescribe regulations as to dangerous epidemic disease.—(1) When at any time the 7[State Government] is satisfied that 7[the State] or any part thereof is visited by, or threatened with, an outbreak of any dangerous epidemic disease, the 8[State Government], if 9[it] thinks that the ordinary provisions of the law for the time being in force are insufficient for the purpose, may take, or require or empower any person to take, such me asures and, by public notice, prescribe such temporary regulations to be observed by the public or by any person or class of persons as 9[it] shall deem necessary to prevent the outbreak of such disease or the spread thereof, and may determine in what manner and by whom any expenses incurred (including compensation if any) shall be defrayed."

It all hinges on the definition of "temporary" -- as per Bush's "9/11" war on everything ... which I believe is still going on...?

Posted by: imo | Mar 14 2020 13:18 utc | 261


Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 14 2020 13:23 utc | 262

I hope everyone here will watch the Corbett Report video from yesterday:

"Medical Martial Law"

Mandatory vaccinations, in my view, is the sure way of knowing if your nation is under medical martial law. The term, "anti-vaxxer", like "conspiracy theory/theorist" is propaganda meant to shut down critical thought and take away human rights. Whatever one's reason for declining a vaccination is their own, and certainly could be argued with if you wish. But people have to have that right to decline a vaccination. Abortion and suicide is in the same boat--people must have the right to do these things without being imprisoned for doing these things(or attempting to in the case of suicide).

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 14 2020 13:33 utc | 263

>Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 14 2020 13:23 utc | 263

Thank you. I watched it even though I am not a fan of MSDNC or Rachel Maddow. This is the first detailed description of how the Chinese are dealing with the epidemic. The Fever Clinics are an interesting concept but appear to ignore the concept of informed consent. I noted the program was developed in response to the SARS epidemic some years ago.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 14 2020 13:54 utc | 264


China report says human rights situation deteriorating in U.S.

China is stepping up in the propaganda warfare front. It's finally realized playing nice is not enough against the West's very big and very well-oiled propaganda machine.

Abe can now declare a state of emergency over COVID-19 — but will he?

Japan's fascist capitalist system is simply a thing to behold, isn't it? When the Diamond debacle happened, the country simply begun to enforce blatant censorship. When it became clear Tokyo was infected to the core with the COVID-19, they simply enforced your pure, unadultered, censorship: the circa 1,300 cases we register now are the same circa 1,300 cases of one month ago, they simply classified the real number and stopped the updates. Then, under the cover of darkness, they evacuated the imperial family from Tokyo. Then, the same day (!!) they declare the 2020 Olympics will "definitely happen".

Because this is what fascists do: when reality doesn't conform with their tiny little imaginary world, they simply deny it - that is, as long as their elites are safe in a bunker (pun intended).

If you want an example of a people kept in the dark, look to Japan, not to China (where daily updates, with easy-to-read graphics, are available in many news outlets, including official and extraofficial ones).

Washington Post hypes fake news on coronavirus ‘burial pits’ in Iran

That piece of garbage of a story didn't come from a random local American tabloid, but from the sanctified Washington Post. Iran debunked it.


Two stories about the same issue came out these last days. One op-ed in the NYT and two new op-eds in the SCMP.

The NYT op-ed said that Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong contained the virus better than China, in a much more "democratic" way. They forgot to look at the map: Taiwan and Singapore are islands to the south of China, Hong Kong is practically an island, and is also to the south of Wuhan. Also, they didn't have to face the surprise factor Wuhan had, also. Also, they didn't face the "war on two fronts" problem the CCP faced (since Wuhan menaced both the north, Beijing and Shanghai, and the south, Shenzhen - which borders Hong Kong, by the way). Speaking of which, Shanghai's containment of the epidemic was much more efficient and much more "democratic" than all those examples the authors of the op-ed mentioned. Shenzhen - a much bigger city than Hong Kong - has just 420 cases. Why not include it in the discussion?

The SCMP pieces go the same route, with the exception they use South Korea as the anti-China example. Ignoring the fact I don't trust S. Korea's official numbers at all (they are still closing schools, still declaring new disaster zones, the epidemic still shows signs of approaching Seul, etc. etc.), you have that the government is simply too impotent to do anything beyond what it's doing. And South Korea indeed enfoced mass surveilance and quarantine on individuals with symptoms, it's not true they aren't enforcing the "draconic" measures of China.

The situation is clear: in regions "democratic" measures can be taken, they are being taken; in regions the situation is very grave, they are enforcing the "draconic" measures because those "draconic" measures are what work. Western journalists must understand this virus doesn't understand human societal rules, and that it's not up to them to decide what works and what doesn't work - leave that to the scientists.


@ SharonM

But I thought Puerto Rico's problem was that it wasn't considered a pure American territory. But yes, I agree with you that Puero Rico was a blatant attempt to enforce "disaster capitalism" on the island.

But, whatever, if FEMA is now as corrupt and inefficient as the rest, I can live with that. Say bye-bye to those USD 50 billion then.


@ Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 14 2020 9:37 utc | 233

Pure "random" doesn't exist in reality. I'm using the term in the casual sense (precisely in the sense of absence of teleology, consciousness).

The elegance of Evolution Theory is that it explains almost everything while requiring mutations to be random. If mutations weren't 100% random, there would be no way for the environment (ecosystem) could 100% determine which mutations would survive and which would be weeded out. Therefore, there wouldn't be natural selection. In other words, Evolution requires the Abrahamic God to not exist - that's why the Catholic Church and the evangelicals in teh USA are so against it.

Posted by: vk | Mar 14 2020 13:57 utc | 265

@263 Barovsky

The Rachel Maddow/Donald McNeil interview was creepy. The nice police State, where you stay away from your family, no crowd gatherings, go to a warehouse--that's 'not a concentration camp, because the inmates dance!'. That was BS. "MUST WATCH" in order to see the caring helpful police State.

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 14 2020 14:16 utc | 266

@267 vk

I have no clue what "pure American territory" means? But I'm glad you're not deceived any longer about FEMA:)

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 14 2020 14:28 utc | 267

The nice smell of British ideology in the morning:

Telegraph journalist says coronavirus ‘cull’ of elderly could benefit economy

To be fair, from a strictly capitalist point of view, the journalist is correct. This is specially true for Italy, which has very high life quality and thus expectancy (much higher than China's) and, since 2008, has a collapsed pension system. The culling of all those aged 80+ would indeed by a significant plus to the Italian government and capitalist class.

There's an old Cold War era adage in the Anglo-Saxon world that states that you must be socialist when you're young but capitalist when you're old. Pardon the pun, but that didn't age well.


@ Posted by: SharonM | Mar 14 2020 14:28 utc | 268

If memory doesn't fail me, Trump used some kind of technicality to deny Puerto Rico automatic funding. It had something to do with Puerto Rico not being a true State (of the Union). It even fuelled an independence move in the island. But I may be wrong.

Posted by: vk | Mar 14 2020 14:34 utc | 268

Interesting article:

An old drug may treat the new coronavirus

By Colin Gillespie

Editor’s note: the original article that Dr Gillespie refers to can be found by clicking on this link: Remdesivir and chloroquine effectively inhibit the recently emerged novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in vitro

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 14 2020 14:35 utc | 269

" Fire these people NOW:

Director of CDC
He's a virologist who clearly dropped the ball.

The Head of Homeland Security
He's a former lobbyist who doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

The Undersecretary for Health
The Top health guy at Dept. of Health & Human Services (HHS). The Surgeon General reports to him.

The Surgeon General
"The nation's doctor" failed us. "

Be very wary when the government admits mistakes, short comings, and lack of preparedness as its almost always a cover for intentional actions. Politicians never admit to something unless there are ulterior motives at work.

Posted by: Fog of War | Mar 14 2020 14:41 utc | 270

@r #250
I am very curious how an anti-malarial drug would do anything for an nCOV infection victim.
nCOV is a virus; malaria is a parasite. Hydroxycloroquine also appears to have some type of anti-inflammatory effect - but it isn't clear to me that the damage caused by nCOV is inflammatory beyond the normal cell death. I do see a paper saying the hydroxychloroquine does help with cytokine control, but is that the main issue with nCOV? (It was with SARS 1)
Most of the deaths from nCOV that I've seen documented are due to pulmonary related issues: pneumonia, ARDS etc as opposed to a cytokine storm - which is basically an immune system over-response.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 14 2020 14:53 utc | 271

@ # 219 Time-Line

Good timeline. However germ war against China as secret but official Policy of USA began 01January 1952. Wally has not been able to determine any ending date...


The Chinese learned how and did deal effectively with that campaign in 1952. The US was bombing along RR lines to spread the, for example, they used 200 C steam (superheated steam, dry steam) rigs (fome locomotives I suppose) to sterilized slowly moving freight trains as they passed though tunnels especially.

The Report put the present affair in perspective.

Again, Wally has not been able to discover any end date...

Karlof1 and Wally probably agree that's moral bankruptcy.


"random-ness" is bracketed by Circumstance. It's a characteristic of all life, even single-cell life, that the available "choices" are not random. Teleology is not necessary.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 14 2020 14:54 utc | 272

c1ue | Mar 14 2020 14:53 utc | 272 gin and tonic... !!

Actually Wally used to make the tonic himself...sent away for the bark years past...the fizzie aspect isn't too hard either, but not necessary.

(Quinine screws up the night vision glare recovery though)

What the L... the occasional pair-reliever can't hurt...

(US tonic water seems to always have sugar in it... yuk!)

Posted by: Walter | Mar 14 2020 15:15 utc | 273

c1ue 272

I had read something about anti inflammatories helping as damage is more due to imune reaction rather than the virus itself damaging cells. I looked up pnuemonia to find a better description of it as pneumonia can have various causes. This is what I found.
"Pneumonia is an infection in one or both lungs. Bacteria, viruses, and fungi cause it. The infection causes inflammation in the air sacs in your lungs, which are called alveoli. The alveoli fill with fluid or pus, making it difficult to breathe."

It appears pneumonia is inflammation of the lungs which is an immune response to various things.
Anti inflammatories reduce inflammation.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 15:19 utc | 274

The "Invisible Hand" in action:

He Has 17,700 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer and Nowhere to Sell Them

Posted by: vk | Mar 14 2020 15:29 utc | 275

Fog of War @271: Be very wary ...

Yeah, especially the three top national "health" guys are military or ex-military.

Head of CDC retired as a Colonel.

Undersecretary for Health and Surgeon General are both in a special, non-combat branch of the military services.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 14 2020 15:32 utc | 276

@C1UE 272
Chloroqunine has a side effect of helping zinc be absorbed into cells. It is a Zinc Ionophore. More impactful than taking high doses of zinc.

Zinc blocks the RNA Replicase coding of virus proteins. Thus inhibiting virus replication.

Search "chloroquinine medcram" on youtube for the details.

Posted by: JustAMunt | Mar 14 2020 15:33 utc | 277

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 14 2020 12:17 utc | 255

Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai??? you mean the famous "inventor of email"... "science is not settled on vaccines" ... launcher of defamation lawsuits (they're saying mean things about me). Oh that guy.

Do you have some facts to bring to the table to knock down what he says in the video about the immune system ? OK, it is this !!!

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 14 2020 12:31 utc | 259

Ayyadurai claims that the measles vaccine was created due to the risk of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) from measles, and that people had “measles parties”. I’m unable to find any evidence that a significant number of people ever held “measles parties” prior to the creation of the measles vaccine.

I cringe to reference Wiki but that is the fast way to go.

In the United States, chickenpox parties were popular before the introduction of the varicella vaccine in 1995.[13][20][21] Children were also sometimes intentionally exposed to other common childhood illnesses, such as mumps and measles.[22] Before vaccines became available, parents knew these diseases were almost inevitable.

I'm guessing this is what Dr. Ayyadurai most likely was referring to. But lets go a bit further regarding vaccines,

A long term high rate of seropositivity persists after natural measles infection. By contrast, it decreases over time after vaccination. Similarly, the concentrations of antibodies in persons with measles history persist for a longer time at a higher level than in vaccinated persons.

So it would seem that "party" people living in the "Stone Age" were not as stupid as modern medicine would like us to believe.

How about the climate change scam ? Is he lying ?

Regarding email and his politics. Personally I could careless because that's his business. If he wishes to litigate about email fine because to do that he is shelling out his money and that's his right. In closing, at least the man provides some information that informs verses 2-3 sentences that seems to simply attack him personally. Ad hominem attacks are so boring.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2020 12:27 utc | 257

I have used Windows since mid 1990's (now more and more Linux) and have never installed antivirus software. I have never had a "virus".

What the "virus" can or can not do depends on what the OS allows it to do. Your experience is yours but such an approach would not fly in a top 10 corporation where Paal Kibsgaard once worked.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 14 2020 15:39 utc | 278

c1ue 272

I tried to find something on the mechanism (not sure if that's the right term) of how coronavirus damages the lungs and come up with this.

"Look deeper, and the novel coronavirus appears to follow other patterns of SARS, says University of Maryland School of Medicine associate professor Matthew B. Frieman, who studies highly pathogenic coronaviruses."...

..."That’s when phase two and the immune system kicks in. Aroused by the presence of a viral invader, our bodies step up to fight the disease by flooding the lungs with immune cells to clear away the damage and repair the lung tissue.
When working properly, this inflammatory process is tightly regulated and confined only to infected areas. But sometimes your immune system goes haywire and those cells kill anything in their way, including your healthy tissue.
“So you get more damage instead of less from the immune response,” Frieman says."...

..."During the third phase, lung damage continues to build—which can result in respiratory failure. Even if death doesn’t occur, some patients survive with permanent lung damage. According to the WHO, SARS punched holes in the lungs, giving them “a honeycomb-like appearance”—and these lesions are present in those afflicted by novel coronavirus, too.
These holes are likely created by the immune system’s hyperactive response, which creates scars that both protect and stiffen the lungs.

When that occurs, patients often have to be put on ventilators to assist their breathing. Meanwhile, inflammation also makes the membranes between the air sacs and blood vessels more permeable, which can fill the lungs with fluid and affect their ability to oxygenate blood."

At the moment medical care consists of keeping the patient alive until the immune system destroys the virus. Ventilation fluids ect. Reducing over reaction from the immune system with anti inflammatories would also be a big help if the above is correct.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 15:47 utc | 279

Forgot the link for my info @280

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 15:52 utc | 280

Unlimited money to the German capitalists:

German Finance Minister Vows to Use ‘Bazooka’ to Shore Up Companies Amid COVID-19 Crisis

“We are putting all our weapons on the table and showing that we are stronger than the problem we might face in economic terms”, he said, adding that there is “no upper limit on the amount of loans KFW can issue”.

Posted by: vk | Mar 14 2020 15:53 utc | 281

Enough to close borders with the Britons....

UK declares itself powerless against coronavirus, prioritizes economy.

Johnson has warned the Britons to go preparing to loose their relatives...

Meanwhile, in Benidrom, Spain, in spite of the declaration of state of alarm...the Britons overcrow bars and terraces....

All these people, once infected, will then come to add to the collapse of the Spanish public health system, not the British one, no wonder Johnson does not find himself in the need to do something....
Spanish law enforcement forces should go closing bars and restaurants and confine all these hooligans in their hotels or flet them to theri country of origin, since it is a source of spreading of infection i nface of the lack of containment measures.

In other order of things, while the leader of the Spanish far-right ( and dolphin of ex-president Aznar´s think tank ..)keeps criticizing government and claims for more extraordinary and harsh measures of control, xx-president Aznar ( of infamous memory for having brought Spain into Iraq War and spreading of fake news with respect to the autorship of the 11-M terrorist attacks, plus having faced thousands of cases of corruption in his party...) and his wife, Ana Botella, have displaced themselves to Marbella ( southern coast of Spain, weekends and holidays famous city.. ) in the middle of state of alert and request for containment of people´s displacements, along with those other insolidary and uncivic citizens who have taken advantage of the good weather to travel to the coast, carrying infection with them....

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 14 2020 16:04 utc | 282

Posted by: vk | Mar 14 2020 14:34 utc | 269

Holy Smokes, using the word "cull" when referring to people is taking it all to another level in this sad situation. Looking at the comments I can see that some people are really pis$ed off.

That's the war generation that your happy to cull. People with alot more to give than you ever would you spineless parasite.
(I corrected some minor sentence issues)

I do believe there was a fella who ran germany for a while back in the 30s and 40s who would of said simuler things about the economy when talking about human lives

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 14 2020 16:09 utc | 283

Barovsky 270

Thanks for putting up those links. Interesting reading.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 16:13 utc | 284

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 15:19 utc | 275

Re anti-inflammatories see this piece on intravenous Vitamin C being used in China:

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 14 2020 16:18 utc | 285

Whose ideas Johnson most proably is keen on...

Thoma Maltus 1766-1834

Anglican clergyman, philosopher and professor of political economy, wrote in 1798 the book "Essay on the principle of population".

He held the mistaken theory that the rate of population growth is "geometric", while the rate of food production is "arithmetic", so that population growth had to be controlled, particularly the lower classes of society, or the food in the world would end.

He affirmed that the balance of the population should be sought through death, in any of its different forms: through hunger, epidemics, or wars.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 14 2020 16:20 utc | 286

So as to survive, we only have to expect that it is not our governmetn the most liberal of all ...


President Macron (center right) last night: "What this pandemic has revealed is that free health, our welfare state, are not costs or burdens, but precious goods, (...) and that this type of goods and services must be outside the laws of the market."

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 14 2020 16:25 utc | 287

Medicare for all;The black voters didnt want god.

Posted by: dahoit | Mar 14 2020 16:29 utc | 288

We are left to observe two very different paradigms and consider what to this point we have been told, and continue to be told ( by the international far-right..) about China:

China's "cruel communist dictatorship" sacrifices its economy to save the population.

The "cool British democracy" sacrifices its population to save its economy.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 14 2020 16:30 utc | 289

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 14 2020 16:25 utc | 288

Words are cheap and will never trump Reality.

Listen to Maddona singing in May of 2019 in Tel Aviv, "Not everyone is coming to the Future". Note the lovely headgear of her buddies.

Maddona keeping us informed

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 14 2020 16:33 utc | 290

Surely this will be forbidden soon by Italian authorities as a means to stop the spreading of Coronavirus, but as encouragement measure for the people and a sign of Mediterranean expansive character, has no price:

Sicily, from self-quarantined...of course this will always be a better environment to survive than the bunkers of the rich where they will die of self-disgust and self-loathing...

Forza Italia!

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 14 2020 16:44 utc | 291

Barovsky 286

Vitamin C for immune needs to be balanced with zinc and copper. Large doses of vitamin C alone cause copper deficiency. I believe this has some effect on cancer as copper is required for new blood vessels.
I brought on a copper deficiency one time by constant large doses of vitamin C. When I researched what was happening I stopped vitamin C and started taking a copper supplement at maximum recommended daily intake. With that I stated getting some sort of growths. Had one cut off and checked out at the docs. Was something called a horn which can become cancerous. Cutting out the copper supplements and taking low doses of vitamin C caused the rest of these to dry up and fall of. Still have one that I uses as an indicator to balance copper - vitamin C levels. If it starts to grow, I take some vitamin C until it has nearly disappeared.

Large doses have been used against cancer, and going by my experience depleting copper via large doses of vitamin C may be useful against cancer.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 17:09 utc | 292

The Covid-19 puzzles that scientists are still trying to answer

Now everything is a "puzzle".

That wasn't the case when it was just wreacking havoc in China, it was all "communism is bad", "this is the end of Xi", "the CCP tried to hide the COVID-19 with a wall of lies" etc. etc.

Posted by: vk | Mar 14 2020 17:13 utc | 293

The US approach to the Corona virus will be predictable

  • launch the War on Coronavirus. more money to the MIC

  • Blame China

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 14 2020 17:15 utc | 294

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 17:09 utc | 293

Peter, if you were forced to be vaccinated what would you do to protect yourself against this ? Somewhere in my wondering I seem to recall someone writing to take large amounts of Vitamin C BEFORE the vaccination. What you say ?

A little fun follow up to my #291 post,

Album back cover

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 14 2020 17:19 utc | 295

My experience has been that vaccinations are genuine. I'm not American and I don't know much about the various vaccinations there.

I don't have any time for US big pharma - purely a money making operation and many GP's here have similar mindset, but at the leading edge of medical research away from US big pharma it is a different story.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 14 2020 17:29 utc | 296

@vk, sharonm, etc

my impression is that the neglect of Puerto Rico following hurricane Maria was a little of all the factors - baseline bureaucratic incompetence, chaos due to a trump administration paralyzed by scandal and the limited managerial talent available to it, 100% certainly because of the lack of representation (statehood) for the puerto ricans, probably some they-don't-matter attitude stateside, and finally a land grab by real estate investors, who get to buy some nice beachfront property after the previous owners are forced to sell in a desperate financial position.

as for FEMA... I can't say, but hurricane Katrina did not make a good impression. A collection of competent people don't always add up to a competent organization, and this type of effect would worsen if anything under the Trump administration.

In the context of this crisis, the US has a bunch of response strategies from other countries that can simply be copied, with the benefit of a 2 week head start vs Italy/Korea (not to mention China) to see what works and what doesn't. In the immediate moment, i.e. trying to slow down the contagion rate, there isn't a lot of original thinking required, and already I am troubled by what I see. Later, when deciding how to handle emerging from lockdown, how to deal with millions out of work in a merciless capitalist but democratic system with voters already on the edge for several years, there will be challenges totally unique to the US. Right now it would be nice not to have an epidemic 10x worse than it has to be...

Posted by: ptb | Mar 14 2020 17:59 utc | 297

@imo | Mar 14 2020 12:54 utc | 260

Yes, imo. Please see my older comment (88) to b's article "Coronavirus - The Hidden Cases - Why We Must Shut Everything Down And Do It Now" where I wrote: "Then this: The SARS-Cov-2 seems to have spread ftom the USA(!) - not China: "

Posted by: Joerg | Mar 14 2020 18:05 utc | 298

Report from America: Went to the local grocery store and pharmacy early afternoon on Friday (large midwest city) for regular shopping. Stores here typically stock everything during the week to have everything out by Friday and shelves full for the busy weekend shopping time.

I found no flour at the grocery store - that was damn odd. First-ring suburb - nobody bakes anymore and there's usually a plentiful supply. I'm pretty sure we grow and mill that HERE, not China. Plenty of locally-produced milk and cheese for comparison; also plenty of rice and noodles. Nothing else food-related I noticed. (Still) completely sold out of laundry bleach, bottled hand soap and hand sanitizer. Maybe about half the usual amount of toilet paper. Neither the grocery store nor pharmacy had any hydrogen peroxide, isopropyl alcohol or thermometers.

I wasn't shopping for any of these items - I simply noted their absence from shelves. No idea if that's representative of all grocery stores or pharmacies either locally or nationally - just my sample-of-one experience yesterday fwiw.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Mar 14 2020 18:26 utc | 299

@imo | Mar 14 2020 12:54 utc | 260
…some more:
If Your "New Year 2019" means January 2019 - and not January 2020 - Your and your family's (sad) experience would be very interesting! That would mean a Covid-19 case nearly a full year before this pandemic was known in public.

Posted by: Joerg | Mar 14 2020 18:32 utc | 300

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