Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 13, 2020

News-Nugget About The Coronavirus Pandemic

Excerpts from three current pieces about the novel coronavirus pandemic.

NPR: White House Knew Coronavirus Would Be A 'Major Threat' — But Response Fell Short

In the case of Alex Azar, [the head of Health and Human Services], he did go to the president in January. He did push past resistance from the president's political aides to warn the president the new coronavirus could be a major problem. There were aides around Trump - Kellyanne Conway had some skepticism at times that this was something that needed to be a presidential priority.

But at the same time, Secretary Azar has not always given the president the worst-case scenario of what could happen. My understanding is he did not push to do aggressive additional testing in recent weeks, and that's partly because more testing might have led to more cases being discovered of coronavirus outbreak, and the president had made clear - the lower the numbers on coronavirus, the better for the president, the better for his potential reelection this fall.

So how did that worst-case scenario look?

NYT: The Worst-Case Estimate for U.S. Coronavirus Deaths

Officials at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and epidemic experts from universities around the world conferred last month about what might happen if the new coronavirus gained a foothold in the United States. How many people might die? How many would be infected and need hospitalization?

One of the agency’s top disease modelers, Matthew Biggerstaff, presented the group on the phone call with four possible scenarios — A, B, C and D — based on characteristics of the virus, including estimates of how transmissible it is and the severity of the illness it can cause. The assumptions, reviewed by The New York Times, were shared with about 50 expert teams to model how the virus could tear through the population — and what might stop it.
Between 160 million and 214 million people in the U.S. could be infected over the course of the epidemic, according to one projection. That could last months or even over a year, with infections concentrated in shorter periods, staggered across time in different communities, experts said. As many as 200,000 to 1.7 million people could die.

And, the calculations based on the C.D.C.’s scenarios suggested, 2.4 million to 21 million people in the U.S. could require hospitalization, potentially crushing the nation’s medical system, which has only about 925,000 staffed hospital beds. Fewer than a tenth of those are for people who are critically ill.

That is why we argued that only an early and lasting lockdown can prevent that the health care system goes into overload and that many people who would ordinarily survive would otherwise unnecessarily die.

A U.S. op-ed writer, who was in China during the lockdown, repeats our criticism of the racism that led to the still sluggish response in 'western' countries.

NYT: China Bought the West Time. The West Squandered It.

[F]or weeks now, the attitude toward the coronavirus outbreak in the United States and much of Europe has been bizarrely reactive, if not outright passive — or that the governments in those regions have let pass their best chance to contain the virus’s spread. Having seen a kind of initial denial play out already in China, I feel a sense of déjà vu. But while China had to contend with a nasty, sudden surprise, governments in the West have been on notice for weeks.

It’s as if China’s experience hadn’t given Western countries a warning of the perils of inaction. Instead, many governments seem to have imitated some of the worst measures China put in place, while often turning a blind eye to the best of them, or its successes.
In my experience living in China for weeks during the peak period of the lockdown and talking to various groups beyond the disgruntled elites, people were frustrated, even exasperated, by the containment measures — but they largely supported them, too.

And while some in the West fixated on how China’s system failed to stem the outbreak at first, they were ignoring the aspects of it that worked. There’s nothing authoritarian about checking temperatures at airports, enforcing social distancing or offering free medical care to anyone with Covid-19.

Your host is currently working on a piece about the social, political and geopolitical consequences the pandemic is likely to have. My first outline says that these will be huge and will reverb over several decades. I will have to tone that down.

Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the issue:

Posted by b on March 13, 2020 at 14:00 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Pandemicide is now official US Government policy. Plan accordingly!

Posted by: David N Metheny | Mar 13 2020 14:08 utc | 1

Curious to read your thoughts about the impact.
Considering how pretty much all Western governments fucked up big time, I expect a backlash against current governing parties, if not a serious questioning of the ways current "liberal" democracies are working. And they won't be able to blame it on Putin's or Xi's troll army; everyone can see they brought this upon themselves.
This is the time where the Four Stages system from Yes Minister - which is blatantly used by our political leaders - is out in the open, because the consequences won't appear decades in the future but will be obvious before this year is over.
Of couse, globalization of trade, free-trade, free movement of people will have to be reconsidered. And last but not least, if people have to live for months under lockdown or quarantine, it might have an impact on the economic and productive system - and also on the environment -, because our societies will have to focus on what's truly needed for them to survive as societies, and not on the fanciful bullshit like marketing, spin doctors, traders and countless bureaucratic jobs.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 13 2020 14:11 utc | 2

The Saker has an open thread with many-- but one in particular-- informative comments.
The most informative is a guy called "old microbiologist". He's worth the long read, gives his autobiography and many relevant stories along with his measured assessments of what is going on.

Posted by: migueljose | Mar 13 2020 14:14 utc | 3

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

H. L. Mencken

Posted by: Greenbean950 | Mar 13 2020 14:15 utc | 4

Moon of Alabama regurgitating the New York Times and National Public Radio. Sad!

Posted by: rucio | Mar 13 2020 14:31 utc | 5

I wonder what the Middle East and African nations think of the NATO-Nations' panic? They've had to deal with the NATO-Nations as a horrible virus, destroying their families for years. Here in the bible-belt of the U.S., people still have the audacity to mock Iranian requests for an IMF loan to help with their health system. The U.S. regime and its sick allies haven't thought for a moment about sanction relief for Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, etc.

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 13 2020 14:44 utc | 6

Thank you b ! But please don’t refrain from or fear telling us the worse case scenario! That is what the elite and their media puppets have been doing.
Please give us four scenarios including the most serious.
That then would be balanced and sane.
I have now ‘locked down’ will not leave my home and garden except for dire emgency ! I will not allow anybody in who has been in public contact in the last ten days.
We have now caught up with where we should have been five weeks ago ! Meaning we are still five weeks behind.
Forget hospitals, buseness will fold lock dominos from here on, the food chain will collapse. Civil unrest is about to breakout on a massive scale. The police have been training for this for several years. They will visably chainge from law enforcement to oppression.
This virus is ONE weapon in a war ! They will deploy a score of tactics.
Finally for this comment expect refugees. I live ten miles outside Bristol UK.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 13 2020 14:47 utc | 7

15 years ago, brilliant Marxist academic Mike Davis wrote a book on bird flu called Monster at the Door.

Here is his first take on coronavirus.

Posted by: Davis | Mar 13 2020 14:49 utc | 8

Some bedtime reading...
Who Made Coronavirus? Was It the U.S., Israel or China Itself?
Was the 2020 Wuhan Coronavirus an Engineered Biological Attack on China by America for Geopolitical Advantage?
Bats, Gene Editing and Bioweapons: Recent Darpa Experiments Raise Concerns Amid Coronavirus Outbreak


Apologies for links to the deeply problematic, and sometimes downright repulsive,, but it just so happens that they publish a lot of intriguing stuff as well.

Posted by: alan2102 | Mar 13 2020 14:55 utc | 9

Many unbelievers here. I guess to much CNN poison is incurable.

Posted by: Viktor | Mar 13 2020 14:58 utc | 10

As soon as you end lockdown, the disease will come back fairly quickly as those without any immunity become infected. So there will likely be several cycles of lockdown and infection before the disease becomes a background disease because immunity will have built up and those most vulnerable would have died. Instead of disrupting society by implementing universal lockdown, perhaps they should look at assisting the most vulnerable - those over 60 and/or those with compromised immune systems and encourage and assist them to self-isolate until hospital beds become more available particularly in the summer, and make sure that herd immunity has been acquired before next winter. The aim of governments should be to minimize harm so they need to balance the harm caused to others by lockdown, etc. with the harm caused to those vulnerable to this Corona Virus - not a pleasant or easy task.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Mar 13 2020 15:10 utc | 11

Posted by: migueljose | Mar 13 2020 14:14 utc | 4

I agree Miguel. That is an interesting comment.

The Army Quietly Re-Opens Its Infamous Germ Warfare Lab
The Fort Detrick Laboratory Experiments with Ebola, Plague and Other Deadly Toxins; Anthrax Connection

By Sarah Okeson

The Show Must Go On

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 15:12 utc | 12

Why are you stoking this irrational panic? Quoting the New York Times. What's the matter with you? I find it reassuring that high profile figures here and there have caught the COVID-19 flu. Madamm Trudeau, President Bolsinaro, etc. When they're back at their regular public duties in a week or so maybe it will sink into peoples thick skulls what a bunch of scardey cat ninnies the politicians are. The panic is doing more damage than the virus. IMHO. Time will tell.

Posted by: Paul Bogdanich | Mar 13 2020 15:15 utc | 13

The "worst case scenario" doesn't look very credible. If less than 20% of the people on a cruise ship - trapped for multiple weeks - contracted nCOV, the notion that 2/3rds of Americans will seems far too high.
However, a lockdown has its own issues:
1) Reportedly 100,000 children in New York will starve if they can't go to school and get fed. Is this going to be a lot different elsewhere?
2) What about the salaries, vs. the debts, for the hourly workers that won't be able to work in a lockdown situation? A large percentage of Americans are extremely financially precarious.
3) Then there's the US health care system. Even disregarding the secondary economic/social effects noted above - how will $500-$3000 nCOV testing impact people? Much less the cost of hospitalizations?

And just for extra fun: The number of hospital beds in the US declined 5% from 2005 to 2017: source

The number of hospital beds is rising in prosperous zip codes and falling everywhere else. The amount of hospital beds fell by five percent nationally between 2006 and 2017. Over the same time period, the number of beds increased by 10 percent in prosperous zip codes, which were the only group to see an increase. Prosperous zip codes tend to be growing quickly: The number of residents of prosperous zip codes increased by an estimated 20 percent over the study period, faster than the population of any other quintile. Combined with their initially low bed-counts, the rise in hospital beds in prosperous communities may reflect a rebalancing in the landscape of beds towards the locations where more and more Americans live.

So while richer areas got more hospital beds, the number don't reflect the population increase. The other areas are just SOL.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 13 2020 15:16 utc | 14

The explosion of hate and blame and fear flying around online with regard to this pandemic is more than alarming and ultimately useless and damaging. In a way it scares me more than the flu itself at the moment because of the implications of how it will hinder our ability to cooperate and deal with this.

The panic has set in, to some extent, but people are adjusting. There is a hyper focus on the federal government and opportunistic political attacks with the goal of ruining the current administration in the lead up to 2020 elections (an administration already paranoid from 3+ years of being targeted to an extent I've never seen in my life). That much is really obvious if you can look at things rationally, even if, like me, you're opposed to this administration ideologically, politically and in almost every other way. I think that's beyond reckless and extremely dangerous at a time like this, but my opinion won't change much in a political environment that has been so carefully manipulated to a level of toxicity that is maybe unprecedented. Maybe people will get their priorities straight when/if things get really rough. Remains to be seen.

What the media and others aren't paying attention to at all to local and state authorities who have been mobilizing. We don't rely on the federal government for everything. We have extensive town, city, county and state infrastructures that handle most things in daily life. The states themselves vary but every one has an extensive infrastructure.

The testing issue is clearly a major league failure. How important is it compared to mobilizing? It's important because information is important for supply networks and decision making. But is it more important in the short term than getting the population to prepare at home, isolate to varying extents, to be informed about symptoms etc and be able to ride this out as well as possible until the bigger, higher level infrastructure catches up?

And that is happening here in the US, at least in my state of NJ (bumped up against/integrated with 2 of the biggest cities in the country). There is massive mobilization. Colleges going into spring break right now and switching to online instruction after spring break, large events canceled, people working from home when possible, state government hotlines and online reporting in place, and tons of other things. This is anecdotal but my son told me today that friends who work in electronics stores, restaurants will be paid for furloughs, which surprised me. He's a student with a part time restaurant job and no shut down or word of furlough pay as yet.

At a recent small biz related gathering - people already adopted modified non-handshakes on their own. Maybe seems a little silly but shows how quickly people adapt in real world regardless of the hate and panic flying around in MSM and social media. That doesn't get us more hospital beds and respirators but it's important at the prevention end of things. As for possible need for rapid expansion of medical facilities, I guess we'll find out soon if the trillions we spend on military/national guard can benefit people at home if we hit that crisis point. Supposedly, this type of logistics is one of their strengths.

Posted by: Joanne Leon | Mar 13 2020 15:17 utc | 15

Just a few weeks before the supposedly 1st case reported in Nov. there was the 2019 Military World Games in Wuhan.

10,000 participants from over 110 countries competing in dozens of venues in and around Wuhan.

Posted by: jef | Mar 13 2020 15:25 utc | 16

Re: 'migueljose | Mar 13 2020 14:14 utc | 4', I also read "old microbiologist"s comment.

Global Research also has an interesting article. (COVID-19%20 Further Evidence that the Virus Originated in the US - Global ResearchGlobal Research - Centre for Research on Globalization.html)

I am also suspicious that this virus might not be a natural occurrence. However, if the virus was intentionally leaked, I suspect that the real target of the perpetrators (CIA for their Globalist bosses) is Donald Trump, either by tanking the economy ahead of the election, or by infecting him directly, or both.

Other centers of the outbreak (China, Iran, Italy, etc.) were necessary in order to deflect suspicion, with the side effect of harming 'Globalist' adversaries.

However two things have occurred that the 'Globalists' were likely not suspecting:
1. China reacted to the virus much more aggressively and successfully than expected.
2. Russia used this moment of economic weakness to crash the oil market, thus crashing financial markets, and setting off a series of events that could lead to the collapse of the U.S. dollar as the world's dominant currency.

Russia and China are set to emerge as the big winners from this crisis, China will be the first economy back up and running, and Russia will be the new price setter for oil. The Multi-polar World Order will be the winners, the 'Globalists' the big losers.

If the 'Globalists', and their CIA tools, are indeed behind this infection then they may have ended up being the unintended victims of their own dirty schemes. Not the first time!

Posted by: dh-mtl | Mar 13 2020 15:27 utc | 17

people who think this 1. manufactured or 2. blown out of proportion. I don't get the way your minds work - just wow. here's some data. I hope you read it.

Posted by: douglass truth | Mar 13 2020 15:30 utc | 18

the (1) lockdown / (2) distancing would continue until (1) several 100000 beds of emerhency medical facilities are built and treatment for the severe cases is delivered (2) until a vaccine is developed. In principle with modern genetics, a vaccine development is not that different technically from how other viruses are done, although some essential preliminary steps like having an animal species that is validated for testing medicines for this type of virus, those are not in place and that kind of research would normally be done first. Wouldn't surprise me, however, if some countries just go right to human testing, (e.g. administer potential vaccine to young hospital staff etc who are almost certain to get exposed anyway). Under the circumstances I would expect that to happen.

Posted by: ptb | Mar 13 2020 15:31 utc | 19

Regarding repulsive NYT, NPR, and Unz, an old AA saying comes to mind:

Take what you can use and leave the rest.

I wonder if Pence and fellow Rapturists are getting excited yet. We've had the US War on the World, Famine in Yemen, and Death by Drone for years, and now the last Horseman, Pestilence, is breaking down the door. Pence is allegedly in charge of the response to Pestilence, so I am wondering if a policy of "It's God's Will" would partly explain the lack of response.

The scary thing about fundamentalists is that they really believe this stuff. I recall asking someone who was "witnessing" to me if they really believed that a billion Chinese that never heard of Jesus would all die and go to Hell. His response was, yes, they would, which is why it is so important to send missionaries everywhere.

How does break through such rigid dogma and certainty that they are correct?

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 13 2020 15:38 utc | 20

@4, Migueljose posted the Saker article link.

Here's the Commenter Url:

The commenter continued down thread also.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Mar 13 2020 15:38 utc | 21

@SharonM | Mar 13 2020 14:44 utc | 9

I wonder what the Middle East and African nations think of the NATO-Nations' panic? They've had to deal with the NATO-Nations as a horrible virus, destroying their families for years.

Here in Norway we should think about it as well. Our 'folkehelseinstituttet' ("People's Health Institute") is managed by a woman with surname Stoltenberg, she is the sister of the NATO puppet.

My wife and I are locked down for 2 weeks. I am not sure what to believe, but it does not smell very good.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 13 2020 15:41 utc | 22

The experience of China has been UNIVERSALLY ignored in the West and for obvious reasons:

1. Racism
2. Anti-Chinese/Anti-Communist 'sentiment'
3. Big business comes first and the people last.

A few pieces telling the truth:

Here in the UK, the BBC has been the main disseminator of fake news and disinformation. So for example, we 'learn' from the BBC that banning football matches/audiences, would be "disruptive"; that the EU is concerned about "protecting the tourism industry"; or that "curtailing travel etc, will "disrupt peoples lives".

It's obvious that the 1% are sacrificing the old and the sick to save capitalism. Fuck, if this doesn't wake us up to our psychopathic ruling classes, nothing will!!!

Bruce Aylward, Deputy DG of the WHO spelt it out when he said:

"As long as you have these discrete outbreaks ... there is the opportunity to control them — to get on top of these and contain them and prevent a lot of disease and ultimately death," says Dr. Bruce Aylward, a senior adviser to the director-general of the World Health Organization. "That's the big message we saw in China — and one of the big surprises."

"Aylward led a fact-finding trip in China in February on behalf of the World Health Organization. He says the experience there altered his view of what can be done.

"They actually changed the course of a respiratory-borne outbreak without a vaccine, which was extraordinary," says Aylward. The number of daily new cases in China went from around 2,000 just a few weeks ago to less than 100 in recent days"" --

His views have been totally ignored!

Here, the MSM routinely describe Chinese actions as "Draconian"!

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 13 2020 15:41 utc | 23

Posted by: jef | Mar 13 2020 15:25 utc | 20

See this story on RT:

Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Lijian Zhao has demanded US authorities reveal what they’re hiding about the origins of Covid-19, going as far as to suggest the coronavirus may have been brought to China by the US military.

Pointing to a video of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) director Robert Redfield apparently admitting the US had several deaths from Covid-19 before they were able to test for it, Zhao called on the American watchdog to come clean in a tweet posted on Thursday.

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 13 2020 15:46 utc | 24

For the first time, China suggests USA may have been the origin of the COVID-19 (but not that it is a bioweapon):

US army might have brought epidemic to China, says Chinese FM spokesman in tweet

I was waiting if the CCP would disauthorize Zhao Lijian's tweet. Not only it did not do that, but it put it on the front pages of its two main tabloids (People Daily, the official CCP newspaper and The Global Times, the extraofficial Government's newspaper).

However, it doesn't mean at all the USA created the COVID-19 as a bioweapon. American soldiers are the most cospomolitan people in the world right now, they travel everywhere, and visit places most inhabitants have never dreamt of. It would not be surprising if patient zero was indeed an American soldier.

The Antonine Plague - the plague that virtually ended the Roman Empire - was believed to be brought to Italia (more or less equivalent to modern Italy) through the Pretorian Guard, who went to fight Persia during the emperor Lucius Verus' Invasion of Parthia.


In South Korea, mixed signs:

No. of patient recoveries exceeds new cases for 1st time


Gov't to designate Daegu, North Gyeongsang as special disaster zone

If the pandemic is under control, then why declare Daegu and North Gyeongsang "special disaster zones"?

Daegu is to the southeast of Seul. Besides it, the other admitted focus is the Incheon airport (extreme northwest of the country). Both cities entrap Seul thorugh a diagonal axis.

I think South Korea is not doing that good of a job testing peple. In my previous comments about this, I've already laid out my theory, so I'll not repeat myself, but long story short, I think the government has only been able to test the Daegu region, and is unable to force quarantine for people without symptoms (as it is a capitalist country, its capitalist class would never allow such thing).

The point of preoccupation is with a new potential cluster at Sejong, more precisely, at Sejong's government seat. The thing is Sejong is further Daegu's northwest, essentially at Seul's outskirts.

If Seul is affect, the game is pretty much over for the South Korean economy, since the city has half of its 50 million population.

China quickly quarantine Wuhan and pretty much all of Central China in order to protect Shanghai and Beijing to the north. Jae-in Moon should meet with the chaebol families and quickly get authorization from them to quarantine the entire southeast of the country and isolate Seul. The order should be? "protect Seul at all costs".

Posted by: vk | Mar 13 2020 15:47 utc | 25

not sure how it will affect the response here but trudeau's wife has it and is self-isolating. that's kinda good news because the PM is a yuppie and we all know yuppies deeply care about something once it affects them personally.

meanwhile the mental illness known as capitalism combined with the endemic stupidity of alberta's "trailer trash in suits" population is making things worse. no one is ready for their employees to telecommute and paid days off are a rare commodity given the "blood from a stone" mentality of every boss and CEO in the city. as a personal anecdote, my SO's bosses feigned concern and said "oh, we'll shut down if anyone in the building gets it".

1. yeah - because you probably won't have a goddamn choice and...

2. they're letting every idiot (including themselves in one case) in the office go ahead with travel plans to mexico and the states. because they live in canada and can't handle winter.

the best part of that? everyone was told that an employee who just came back into the country had taken and cleared the test. funny thing: she went to the doctor and was turned away because they're hoarding tests. so my SO's boss lied to all his employees and let a (hacking and wheezing, by the way) possible typhoid mary stroll around the office to avoid losing a cent of profit to paid time off. this is what capitalists do. as i said: mental f_cking illness.

Posted by: the pair | Mar 13 2020 15:49 utc | 26

Headline of the Week:

Massive Monkey Gangs Are Fighting For Food On Thailand Streets As Tourist Food Disappears

Massive Monkey Gangs Are Fighting For Food On Thailand Streets As Tourist Food Disappears Teaser Image Tyler Durden Thu, 03/12/2020 - 20:05 Body Coronavirus isn't just causing humans to fight in the aisles of Target over toilet paper.

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 13 2020 15:51 utc | 27

Bolsonaro tests Positive!

There is some justice after all!

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 13 2020 15:53 utc | 28

"Where's your patient zero," China asks the Outlaw US Empire. Yes, this alludes to the bioweapon hypothesis being floated by a significant portion within the CPC and elsewhere.

Those of us who've deeply dug into the buried history of the Outlaw US Empire know is capacity for evil, 911 not being the only case by far, merely the most recent. The domestically produced anthrax used then is always conveniently omitted from discussion by BigLie Media and from the Cover-up "investigation." I don't intend to try and verify the hypothesis. The affects are immense enough; and if deemed Blowback, that doesn't alter the current situation whatsoever. IMO, it will certainly affect BRI, but it has also done great damage to the institutions supporting the Outlaw US Empire.

Yesterday, I linked to the current episode of the Keiser Report and highly suggested it be watched. Here it is again. Steven Keen proposes another hypothesis that is as valid as the bioweapon since he posits it's directed at humans by Gaia and says why. He also proposes an elegant solution for all those people now unable to work, which is a repeat from the first episode of Front Running 2020 with Michael Hudson.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 13 2020 15:58 utc | 29

>So while richer areas got more hospital beds,

More beds is meaningless if there is no staff. Protecting staff and providing whatever resources they require should be the Number One priority. If staff are afraid, they won't show up, and that is already a problem in the nursing homes with infections. The managers are making lots of promises but doing nothing. Family members are forced to care for their own relatives due to staff shortages.

When staff are overworked they make mistakes and end up as patients. Dear Leaders must worry more about healthcare staff and less about elections.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 13 2020 15:58 utc | 30

Posted by: Joanne Leon | Mar 13 2020 15:17 utc | 19

The testing issue is clearly a major league failure. How important is it compared to mobilizing? It's important because information is important for supply networks and decision making. But is it more important in the short term than getting the population to prepare at home, isolate to varying extents, to be informed about symptoms etc and be able to ride this out as well as possible until the bigger, higher level infrastructure catches up?

Yes, we must act and do the best in a truely messed up situation. What gets my goat though is that when they waist BILLIONS/TRILLIONS the whole bloody country goes missing. Crickets...

I know patriots don't want to hear it but "The System is a complete FAILURE.". Its been unraveling at an accelerated rate after 1963.
There is more of that from where that came from.

Even after this mess passes it will still be a failure and making any excuse for why it is so is useless. It's done. We can tinker all we want and it won't help. Covid-19 is an "Eyes Wide Open" moment for those who can still think.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 16:04 utc | 31

I completely condemn the racism that has been displayed in recent weeks in response to this virus outbreak.

But criticism of the Chinese government is not the same thing as racism, nor is it unjustified. Not only has the CCP been warned for decades about the potential danger of their wet food markets, their initial response to this specific crisis was to suppress information and force a whistleblower doctor (who later died from the disease) to give a false confession. Their lockdown, which is impressive and seems (if you trust the official numbers; I'm dubious of them) to have worked, might not have even been neccessary.

Posted by: Benjamin | Mar 13 2020 16:07 utc | 32

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 13 2020 15:58 utc | 33

Spot on !!!

Reading some of the comments leads me to believer that there are far too many on this thread who most likely believe that Oswald did it.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 16:11 utc | 33

More on the nursing home story above, from CBC:

There are more than 200 residents at the Lynn Valley Care Centre. When Harlow visited the facility on Sunday, she says there were three staff members working in total.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 13 2020 16:14 utc | 34

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 13 2020 15:58 utc | 33

No, they're NOT saying it's a bioweapon karlof, they're saying that US troops brought it to China when a contingent landed for the Military Games last year, whether deliberately or by accident.

Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Lijian Zhao has demanded US authorities reveal what they’re hiding about the origins of Covid-19, going as far as to suggest the coronavirus may have been brought to China by the US military.

Pointing to a video of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) director Robert Redfield apparently admitting the US had several deaths from Covid-19 before they were able to test for it, Zhao called on the American watchdog to come clean in a tweet posted on Thursday.

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 13 2020 16:15 utc | 35

@ptb #23
One small addendum:
A vaccine is developed (and tested).
It takes a few weeks to develop a vaccine. It is the testing and manufacturing which takes much, much longer. Testing to determine efficacy as well as potential side-effects - this involves multiples stages of increasing population sizes.
Then manufacturing - depending on the complexity, but likely more an issue due to scale: creating billions of vaccines is not going to happen overnight.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 13 2020 16:16 utc | 36

@Trailer Trash #34
A fair point, but I would point out a number of important details:
1) nursing homes rely far more CNAs and other "health helpers" (not nurses) than actual certified nurses.
2) certified nurses are paid far, far better than CNAs and "health helpers". The "health helpers" are minimum wage, the CNAs are a bit above that whereas the nurses are paid a lot more. Average nurse hourly is $29.54 and they usually get overtime. ICU nurses average even more, I'm fairly sure.
3) The main issue isn't pay - it is child care. 38% of nurses in the US have a child in school. Close the schools - what will these nurses do? While they're paid pretty well by average American standards, child care is really expensive.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 13 2020 16:22 utc | 37

Turns out that the test for this corona virus yields 47% false positives...

Oh dear.

Posted by: Siotu | Mar 13 2020 16:24 utc | 38

@Siotu 43
What is the source of that claim?

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 13 2020 16:31 utc | 39

Must see

Thanks to whom posted this channel here first

Posted by: Mina | Mar 13 2020 16:32 utc | 40

It's less an issue to have false positives than false negatives, even if it's annoying. You just quarantine a few more people. Having infected people assuming they're clean and propagating the virus is way worse.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 13 2020 16:34 utc | 41

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 13 2020 16:15 utc | 40

No, they're NOT saying it's a bioweapon karlof, they're saying that US troops brought it to China when a contingent landed for the Military Games last year, whether deliberately or by accident.

I can't help but have a little fun with this one. So they had a Military Game in Wuhan where the US side brought some ampoules to game different scenarios. These could have deliberately or by accident been used ?? Huuumm, I'll take the Golden Gate Bridge for 2 bucks.

The Games

I'll have a go at interpreting the Ministers statement.
"You son of a b&$ches, we know you brought it in. Be on notices that you are fooling no one."

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 16:34 utc | 42

@ Posted by: Benjamin | Mar 13 2020 16:07 utc | 37

Even if the story of the second whistleblower is true (which, apparently, isn't), then you have to face the fact that those rogue doctors didn't have any means to know it was a brand new virus. They could've thought it was SARS or something like SARS, but they definitely didn't know it would be that contagious and a new variation of the coronavirus.

Two doctors warning about isolated cases of SARS-like symptoms couldn't have triggered an immediate total lockdown of Wuhan. It's utopian to think otherwise. Besides, why didn't they talked with the people they saw were infected and asked them to voluntarily get tested?

The central government, obviously, could've only be aware of the COVID-19 when it was too late. At most, you could argue the regional government screwed up.

You also have to face the fact that the Western Democracies certainly didn't react better than the CCP. They didn't have to face the surprise factor the CCP had. They also benefitted from at least one extra month thanks to the CCP's superb mass quarantine operations. They also benefitted from the robust and extremely precious data comming from China (a classic case of "learn with other's errors"). They not only squandered all that, but we can still see westerners insist it is all a conspiracy.

Posted by: vk | Mar 13 2020 16:37 utc | 43

From the REAL trenches.

When healthcare professionals are talking about shutting down ORs you KNOW it's serious.

Posted by: Seer | Mar 13 2020 16:39 utc | 44

@karlof1 | Mar 13 2020 15:58 utc | 33 and Barovsky | Mar 13 2020 16:15
utc | 40 In re "weapon".

I think people assume that "weapon" means attack with weapon. This assumption is not warranted.

Sam makes a hydrogen bomb. This is a weapon. His airplane breaks up in the air and the bomb falls. Actually this has happened @ Palomares and at Charleston and elsewhere. They tell us that the US has lost 7 nuclear bombs. Some remain lost. What if one goes off today? Was that a weapon that went bang, or was it an attack? (they probably can't go off)

Sam makes industrial germ war institutions starting in 1941...they make weapons. According to Boyle all BSL4 labs are weapon labs, and all leak. (and all are illegal, he says - he wrote the law)

Sam loses a weapon, CV19 or whatever, people die, the costs are vast, global, and dangerous... Was this an attack, eg deliberate? Was it negligent? At what point does "negligent" become "deliberate, especially if the curation occurred in a illegal weapon lab?

What would you say if a kid was making nitroglycerin, lost some, and the potting shed blew to heaven?

"Attack" does not define "weapon". Weapon does not define attack.

It's by definition a weapon if it came from a weapon lab. It's probably obvious that it came from a weapon lab...and they said when they (temporarily) closed F Detrick, that they closed it because they could not keep the public safe.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 13 2020 16:48 utc | 45

nick 14:56 utc | 13
"possibly the first time i've ever read you cite the nyt at face value. for shame!"
You should not react so dogmatically. Depending on the topic, the Relotius media are quite useful. Not every article is about ideology. B reads the articles pragmatically. What he deems to be useful and plausible is accepted. He is right to do so.

Posted by: Pnyx | Mar 13 2020 16:49 utc | 46

Hello Norwegian

Source is Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics, School of Public Health, Xi'an Jiaotong University Health Science Center, Xi'an 710061, China.

Posted by: Siotu | Mar 13 2020 16:50 utc | 47

Potential false-positive rate among the 'asymptomatic infected individuals' in close contacts of COVID-19 patients.

Zhuang GH1, Shen MW, Zeng LX, Mi BB, Chen FY, Liu WJ, Pei LL, Qi X, Li C.


Objective: As the prevention and control of COVID-19continues to advance, the active nucleic acid test screening in the close contacts of the patients has been carrying out in many parts of China. However, the false-positive rate of positive results in the screening has not been reported up to now. But to clarify the false-positive rate during screening is important in COVID-19 control and prevention. Methods: Point values and reasonable ranges of the indicators which impact the false-positive rate of positive results were estimated based on the information available to us at present. The false-positive rate of positive results in the active screening was deduced, and univariate and multivariate-probabilistic sensitivity analyses were performed to understand the robustness of the findings. Results: When the infection rate of the close contacts and the sensitivity and specificity of reported results were taken as the point estimates, the positive predictive value of the active screening was only 19.67%, in contrast, the false-positive rate of positive results was 80.33%. The multivariate-probabilistic sensitivity analysis results supported the base-case findings, with a 75% probability for the false-positive rate of positive results over 47%. Conclusions: In the close contacts of COVID-19 patients, nearly half or even more of the 'asymptomatic infected individuals' reported in the active nucleic acid test screening might be false positives.


Note that the researchers found an actual false positive rate in the field higher still than the 47%- they experienced an actual false positive rate of over 80%....

Posted by: Siotu | Mar 13 2020 16:56 utc | 48

@Siotu 52
Thank you, that is interesting information.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 13 2020 16:58 utc | 49

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 16:34 utc | 47

You embroider somewhat. Ampoules? Didn't see that mentioned in the Chinese press statement. I'm not saying it didn't happen, the question is; by design or by accident?

What you have to consider when proposing that it was deliberate, is the by now, GLOBAL BLOWBACK. I know the Gringos are psychopathic but suicidal as well? This statement:

Pointing to a video of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) director Robert Redfield apparently admitting the US had several deaths from Covid-19 before they were able to test for it

Has no date but I've read elsewhere that US troops were (mis?)diagnosed with respiratory disease sometime in November. We need to know more about this before arriving at a conclusion.

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 13 2020 17:01 utc | 50

Thinking that it was obvious to all (at least to Dr Campbell and others here) that the WHO was being far too mild
in their recommendations. If they had been more explicit, the EU at least (and maybe the US) would have acted accordingly. It seems therefore clear that WHO/EU/US were 'on board'.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 13 2020 17:02 utc | 51

It takes a few weeks to develop a vaccine.
Actually 18 months if everything goes perfectly.
And that is an exception.
(hang with virologists- reality intrudes on ideology)

Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Mar 13 2020 17:03 utc | 52

Fire these people NOW:

Director of CDC
He's a virologist who clearly dropped the ball.

The Head of Homeland Security
He's a former lobbyist who doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

The Undersecretary for Health
The Top health guy at Dept. of Health & Human Services (HHS). The Surgeon General reports to him.

The Surgeon General
"The nation's doctor" failed us.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 13 2020 17:09 utc | 53

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 13 2020 17:01 utc | 50
You missed this ---> "little fun". What I suggested is my imaginative interpretation of what you provided. Friday = Have some fun

I'll be a bit clearer. I think the Chinese have some information that leads them to think the US did it. On the SAKER website they take the position "If you have no evidence don't blame the US".

I say, "We have so much information about how the US gov. operates that it is not a risky bet to point the finger at the US if the US sees a given side as their "enemy"." China is the enemy though the word is not used in the Public.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 17:21 utc | 54

Has the US healthcare system been overrun? I don't think it has yet. So a bit premature to say it was a slow response. This is the metric you are using correct?

Posted by: goldhoarder | Mar 13 2020 17:23 utc | 55

Posted by: Davis | Mar 13 2020 14:49 utc | 8:

The post by Mike Davis is well worth reading. Thanks!

Posted by: David G | Mar 13 2020 17:28 utc | 56

Walter @50--

Thanks for your reply! Did you listen to Keen's hypothesis that Gaia's the culprit? If you'd already read Sprit in the Gene like myself (written by a fellow Aussie of Keen's), you'd probably take it more seriously. But as I said above, they're both hypotheses whose verifications are likely impossible at this time. The scenario I "like" is that used in The Omega Man. And yes, we can use the Franklin Reality Model on this pandemic, too. All we need do is look at Trump administration behavior, like this:

"'In previous emergencies, including the 9/11 terrorist attacks, Hurricane Katrina, and the H1N1 flu outbreak, both Republican and Democratic administrations loosened Medicaid rules to empower states to meet surging needs,' the Times noted. 'But months into the current global disease outbreak, the White House and senior federal health officials haven't taken the necessary steps to give states simple pathways to fully leverage the mammoth safety net program to prevent a wider epidemic.'"

And other examples I've linked to over the past week.

We should recall the #1 policy aim of the Outlaw US Empire: Full Spectrum Domination. We should also recall the immense lack of logic-based foresight exhibited by the Neocons and Trump as their policy moves almost immediately failed due to its lack. Now lets add a hypothetical related to the outbreaks of very oddly behaving diseases in Africa recently that were mostly localized and didn't go pandemic and say they were test runs. So, based on those outcomes mixed in with the #1 policy goal, some smart adjutant comes up with the idea of generating havoc within China and the Eurasian region generally thinking the oceans will act as a barrier, with the assumption that even if it gets to the Western Hemisphere those that matter will be protected, so nevermind the blowback. Yes, this is a serious hypothesis based on Trump administration behavior, which as shown yesterday in Congress is proving very hard to sustain; but that doesn't matter to the Current Oligarchy as the damage is already being done.
Deliberate or not, we're witnessing Total Moral Failure. And now with the many distractions cancelled or postponed for weeks, the public will have nothing to look at aside from the actions of government.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 13 2020 17:32 utc | 57

I would suggest another factor. Generally speaking, people in China and Russia trust their governments. Not so much in the West these days.

Posted by: Patrick Armstrong | Mar 13 2020 17:34 utc | 58

Posted by: Barovsky | Mar 13 2020 15:51 utc | 27:

“Headline of the Week: Massive Monkey Gangs Are Fighting For Food On Thailand Streets As Tourist Food Disappears”

When some future, alien archaeologist visits our depopulated planet and tries to figure out what the hell happened, I think the resulting monograph may well be titled, “Massive Monkey Gangs Fighting for Food”.

Posted by: David G | Mar 13 2020 17:35 utc | 59

@ Posted by: Siotu | Mar 13 2020 16:56 utc | 48

Link for the paper you quoted is dead (404). It was deleted.

If the paper is correct (which it probably isn't, given the shady abstract), then the COVID-19 lethality is through the roof - almost 50% more lethal than the Spanish Flu if my maths don't betray me (unless the autopsies of the deaths being reported also replicate the false positives of the tests).

Posted by: vk | Mar 13 2020 17:42 utc | 60

ref shutting down ORs (not sure what you mean by shutting down, the idea is to cancel all non-urgent surgery)
that is already done in NL and France
+ cancellation of all non urgent appointments in hospitals

Posted by: Mina | Mar 13 2020 17:43 utc | 61

Duncan Idaho #52
Depends on your definition of “developed”. The 18 month period generally refers to the development, testing, redevelopment etc. but doesn’t necessarily include manufacturing.
There are news announcements that say a vaccine has been developed or is close to being developed, hence the clarification I put out.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 13 2020 17:44 utc | 62

Iran’s FM spokesman: China’s humanitarian cargo delivered to Iran via 8 Mahan Air flights (an airline under the US sanctions):
350,000 test kits
2,400,000 masks
130,000 protective gears
120 ventilators
50 boxes of medications and hundreds of thousands of other medical equipments

Posted by: arata | Mar 13 2020 17:45 utc | 63

Trump is now s&$ting bricks because he didn’t listen. Now the Economy is imploding, the Frackers are imploding which could collapse the Derivative Ponzi Pyramid and the whole Country is shuttling down. The Media advertising revenue is disappearing because the Sports Media Complex has collapsed and on top of that their preferred choice for President has Alzheimer’s Disease that is transitioning from Stage 1 to Stage 2. Yes this is the Perfect Storm, but the best Presidential candidate has just suggested the off ramp. She has introduced a plan for a Universal Basic Income, a moratorium on Foreclosures and Evictions. Naturally Congress is rejecting it along with drive-thru testing and places to go if people need to see a Doctor. Congress doesn’t want that either.

Posted by: William H Warrick MD | Mar 13 2020 17:45 utc | 64

I know this one is way off the radar but I suspect some of you will enjoy it.

While looking for some information just now I saw this story from March 31, 1987 in my Google search results. It's a beauty.

Soviet Bulletin Says AIDS Leaked from U.S. Laboratory

MOSCOW (AP) _ A Soviet military bulletin claims the virus that causes AIDS leaked from a U.S. Army laboratory conducting biological warfare experiments, the Tass news agency reported Monday.

The report was one of several containing similar charges by the Soviet Union that began appearing in 1986 and have been denied by U.S. authorities.


I realize that I am guilty of heresy and should be burned at the stake but heck it sure is fun reading again those old news stories when Evil was clearly residing in the USSR.

The Gap Band - You Dropped A Bomb On Me

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 17:46 utc | 65

Meanwhile the "Bastion of Human rights" blocked Iran from purchasing kits and medicines from Switzerland.

Posted by: arata | Mar 13 2020 17:48 utc | 66

Posted by: William H Warrick MD | Mar 13 2020 17:45 utc | 63

Well done Bill !!! I enjoyed reading that.

Here's what I think will save him,

UFO pickup

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 17:51 utc | 67

>Has the US healthcare system been overrun? I don't think it has yet.

The medical industry was overrun by financial parasites about four decades ago. One can see the result in person by visiting nearly any urban Emergency Room anywhere in the US. Wait times are typically very long and the waiting areas are completely inadequate. They do not even have places for sick people to lay down while waiting!

The last time I had any kind of respiratory infection was in 2009. I received it while sitting in the UMass Worcester hospital ER waiting room for about six hours. After finally being brought to a treatment cubicle, the first person I talked to was a collection agent! Honest to God. If it wasn't for the tubes and wires, I would've physically tossed her out. (They have no legal right to be in these areas without patient permission.)

The US system is great at patching up trauma, but for most everything else it is a horror show. The doctors are great at memorizing and being arrogant. They truly suck at diagnosis. They refuse to talk to each other. The nurses and other staff are overworked and frequently suffer indignities inflicted by arrogant doctors (although I think that may be improving).

When it comes to the US medical machine, the only topic allowed is how to shuffle money from various pockets to other pockets, known as "insurance". Discussions on inadequate care, predatory billing practices, huge fraud (almost never by patients), etc. are not allowed.

How do I know anything about the US medical machine? My mom, her mom, my former wife, and a former girlfriend all worked as nurses. For Y2K I wrote a medical billing system aimed at small clinics. I also contracted to a medical collections agency. And I've had a severe chronic illness for 15 years. If the Evil Virus comes to my house, I probably won't fight to hard; I'm already pretty well worn out.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 13 2020 17:58 utc | 68

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 13 2020 17:58 utc | 67

TT, my gift to you on this Friday the 13th so you can avoid the US Hell System :-)


Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 18:01 utc | 69

Koreans are going over to China to get free treatment. China is treating all who need care, all.

Posted by: Robert Browning | Mar 13 2020 18:03 utc | 70

: karlof1 | Mar 13 2020 17:32 utc | 57 (GAIA hypothesis) Yes indeed. However the way I understood or saw the hypothesis is "those whom the gods would destroy..." or > "GAIA breathed upon fools and made them insane such that they made the means of their own destruction, as they are slaves to GAIA, and she was displeased." ie man is the agent of GAIA.

The old micro dude @ saker is well worth reading. I see that he tends to the same opinion as Wally. but with much better grasp.

Let's suppose you wanted to cover up the crime by poisoning your own family in order to murder the neighbor...

Yeah. Moral Failure...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 13 2020 18:06 utc | 71

Barovsky 50

As for global blow back, US have never been bothered by collateral damage. Death rates amongst five-eyes will be a good indicator as to whether a vaccine had been developed.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 13 2020 18:10 utc | 72

I was under the impression that the most advanced biological/germ agent research is developed in the Negev Desert? Anyway, how do you like your slow responder, Ziofascist Trump, now???

And the mentally declining Joe Biden will be no better only as compliant for the Ziofascist rulers to use as a sockpuppet while they continue to control the population in more ways than one.

The response to Coronavirus says FU to people. In other words the one-percent are saying that less 99% to spend on is more wealth for their global designs and security.

Iran is under severe Ziofascist sanctions with people dropping like flies there. Naturally Iranian people will point the finger at their government when in fact everyone should point the finger at the U.S. government not only cleansing its own.

And of course a virus conveniently cleanses/eliminates the immuno weakest, the ill and the elderly. You see it's a much more economical solution than Bernie Sanders universal solution: protect all humanity. How interesting and ironic that the young who support him are in fact also protecting a present and future aging population, ergo Sanders is the enemy of the ruling class and their global designs.

This may seem irrelevant, but I'm somewhat knowledgeable on film, and as a rule I don't very much like science fiction, preferring film noir as the superior genre of all time, however, someone recently suggested to me an interesting 1973 science fiction thriller loosely based on the 1966 science fiction novel Make Room! Make Room! The film in question is Soylent Green.

The film received mixed critical reviews at the time, but one criticism stands out:

Penelope Gilliatt of The New Yorker was negative, writing, "This pompously prophetic thing of a film hasn't a brain in its beanbag. Where is democracy? Where is the popular vote? Where is women's lib? Where are the uprising poor, who would have suspected what was happening in a moment?"

[Wiki sourced]

I must repeat: Where are the uprising poor, who would have suspected what was happening in a moment? INDEED! We are in that very moment. Let's not forget the critic wrote that in 1973 and the film and novel were based on the YEAR 2022!

TG! We are still in the year 2020 and it's still not too late to put someone in power with the vision to see that what's happening here at this moment is but a PREVIEW of the worst to come.

So you all know that especially after 9/11 we moved into the deep end version of 1984 with the media becoming the Ministry of Propaganda, and surveillance, satellite and internet; Big Brother. So of course with the public, having already been subjected to years of mass brainwash and fear control, it's not easy now to get them to SEE WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENING.

It appears we are now moving into the era of climate disaster and so too the stage where population control is an issue for TPTB.

Art imitates life to open our eyes and we are right in the thick of it and have an opportunity to break free or at least make a serious attempt at breaking free.

And then people try to ridicule me as an alarmist and ask me to cool my jets at this monumental crossroads.

When I write that we are at a critical moment faced with a do or die decision, I ain't doing it to appear crazy! BELIEVE ME.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 13 2020 18:11 utc | 73

My daughter and wife both work in the healthcare sector, so I get to see other aspects of this crisis from the trenches, and how this affects the public. Daughter says her hospital is woefully unprepared as it lacks the basics when it comes to protective gear on up the entire logistical ladder--AND-- there's a lack of organizational protocol and direction along with lack of training and preparation. Not a good prognosis, IMO. Wife's concerned about the ability of professionals to do their jobs with schools closed and nobody available to tend the children causing critical staffing cuts before any staff get infected. Then there's the economic blowback. As I've mentioned before, both step-kids have jobs with high public interaction--fast food and retail grocery--where their employers have zero plan of action to deal with potentials. Like Trump, they've had many weeks to figure out some sort of plan but are now victims of his sanguinity. (As I wrote above, there's much to be learned from Trump's behavior toward this crisis.)

We're fortunate to have several freezers stocked with food and so forth to the point where we could self-isolate for 2-3 months since wife could continue to work from home. Step-kids aren't as fortunate as they have monthly money obligations and must continue to work at their workplaces, although supply chain disruptions will certainly affect them. Except for the step-daughter who has asthma and a suite of other maladies, we're in good health. My daughter's on the opposite side of the nation, so my helping her through this will be very difficult. My elders have all passed, making me the elder; but my wife's elders are also on the opposite side of the nation and not in good health--if her dad gets it, he'll surly die; and with air travel being shutdown, we may not get an opportunity to see him beforehand. And our story's certainly not unique.

The Great Depression crisis showed the public they needed to institute a government sponsored safety net, although what was done was minimal as we now see thanks to this new crisis. The huge difference between then and now is 100% political and ideological--even Hoover had compassion and empathy for his fellow man whereas Trump and his crew most certainly don't. It's just under 8 months till election day. And as we've seen, a whole hell of a lot can occur over that timespan.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 13 2020 18:11 utc | 74

WHO still misleading people: "The WHO reiterated that "every person on the planet" should know the signs and symptoms of coronavirus - fever, dry cough and a sore threat, as well as difficulty breathing for some people."
Compare to:
(thanks Seer for that)
in which we read: "The most common presentation was one week prodrome of myaglias, malaise, cough, low
grade fevers gradually leading to more severe trouble breathing in the second week of illness. It
is an average of 8 days to development of dyspnea and average 9 days to onset of
pneumonia/pneumonitis. It is not like Influenza, which has a classically sudden onset. Fever was
not very prominent in several cases. "

Posted by: Mina | Mar 13 2020 18:23 utc | 75

It sucks for the doctors, too, as much as I rag on them. They spend something like $400,000 just to get in the club. In past generations they were "pillars of the community", held in high regard, and were self-employed. Now they are forced to be debt-slave employees like any other working stiff, along with long hours, high expenses, etc.

But as a whole they brought this on themselves. When the financializers came to town to gobble up all the small local community non-profit hospitals (like the one my mom worked at), the doctors could've stopped it, since local doctors controlled local hospitals. I guess they just couldn't resist those shiny stock certificates offered by Hospital Corporation of America...

(from wiki: "The federal probe [of HCA] has been referred to as the longest and costliest investigation for health-care fraud in U.S. history.")

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 13 2020 18:25 utc | 76

>TT, my gift to you on this Friday the 13th so you can avoid the US Hell System :-)
>Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 18:01 utc | 68

Thank you. Yes Vit D is important and I take it every day.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 13 2020 18:28 utc | 77

karlof1 | Mar 13 2020 18:11 utc | 73 Perhaps the october 'sprize is, like Spring itself an' GAIA herself, a bit early. Indeed, we have stepped off the roadrunner's cliff and looked down...

After making what preparations one may or can make...

Boris and Natasha, Goof Gas on YT... an entire genre... Goof Gas is ineffective on politicians...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 13 2020 18:29 utc | 78

Walter @70--

Thanks for your reply and for taking the time to listen to Keen, Stacy and Max. Old Microbiologist often commented here, but seems to be concentrating his efforts at The Saker's. I'll need to take a TO and see what he's written. Now Khamenei's reported thusly:

"Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei stated during an address to the country's armed forces that the recent coronavirus outbreak, which has led to the infection of over 9,000 people in the Islamic Republic, could have been orchestrated intentionally. In the speech, the leader referred to 'some evidence' that suggested the pandemic was man-made, but didn't elaborate any further."

And within the Outlaw US Empire, the Chinese envoy's been summoned supposedly about the bioweapon remarks made by his superior. IMO, this issue's going to rapidly escalate.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 13 2020 18:29 utc | 79

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 13 2020 15:41 utc | 22

Hei, we have also locked ourselves in for the next 14 days.
I will hopefully get A LOT better @ playing Fortnite if this drags on.
Lykke til fra Ålesund!

Posted by: Per/Norway | Mar 13 2020 18:32 utc | 80

@ Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 13 2020 17:58 utc | 67

The American healthcare system cannot be overrun by definition, since it's private.

Private healthcare systems can only be overrun if they want to. Contrary to public healthcare systems, private ones can choose who to treat (through the price system). If "supply" suddenly rises, they simply rise prices to weed out the x poorest clients, where x is the totality of clients minus the system's infrastructure. Hence supply = demand, by definition.

That's why private healthcare systems are never overwhelmed: they simply ignore who can't pay.

That's why the American healthcare system is always the best: it pretends the people who die because they can't afford it don't exist, and claim to attend 100% of the "supply".

Posted by: vk | Mar 13 2020 18:33 utc | 81

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 13 2020 18:25 utc | 75

But as a whole they brought this on themselves. When the financializers came to town to gobble up all the small local community non-profit hospitals (like the one my mom worked at), the doctors could've stopped it, since local doctors controlled local hospitals. I guess they just couldn't resist those shiny stock certificates offered by Hospital Corporation of America...

Dammmm, I had no idea that happened in the US. I remember how they blew out the Public Bus System in out city in the 1980's under the guise, "Private is better run.". Yes it was better but not for the Public. Bus tickets going from 15c to 25c to $1 to ??? no clue as I don't use it.

They gutted the US mighty well soon after NAFTA and all the other "initiative" to make Life better for the US slaves.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 18:35 utc | 82

I know some people working in hospitals y Madrid, all of them are fully, the military are building campaign hospital like hell, they are converting gymns, hotels, new hospitals, other areas of the hospitals are used as ICU's, they are cut all the non extremely urgen surgery, or medical visits, the system now is almost completely overwhelmed; the new Emergency State in the country has allowed the government to use all the private health care facilities to put in use to fight the pandemic, the medical staff are exhaust and a good part of them have the disease, many do not want to be tested, they want to continue working trying to save lifes and help their colleges, may be is not a good strategy, you never know.

The universal message by all the authorities in the country is the same DO NOT GO OUT FROM YOUR HOME, except for extremely urgent needs (buy some food and nothing more)

THIS IS NOT A NORMAL FLU, period, we have not seen nothing like this in 100 years, and soon all the people in the USA saying the opposite will see the real face of this pandemic

Good luck to all

Posted by: DFC | Mar 13 2020 18:39 utc | 83

Europe now center of coronavirus pandemic, death toll has passed 5,000 – WHO chief

The ball is in Europe's court now.

Posted by: vk | Mar 13 2020 18:40 utc | 84

rapidly escalate. yewbetcha!

We too, prepared like the good boyscout always tries to be, have enough basics to last quite a while. I imagine the Mormons will do well (I think they're nutty, but they do well - and that's admirable. (Wally's got Mormonated kin.)

Freezers are fine. Electricity needs back-up. It's do-able with fairly minimal stuff...PV of even one kw, carefully managed...

One may keep the freezer cold with brines, measured in "sal", compute the solution to freeze at zero F or so...fill plastic jugs, freeze these. When power fails, (sun sets) the brine melts instead of the frozen chow. Essentially a thermal storage system rather than using a batter bank... High school physics. As to salts...potassium salts are especially nice, but road salts (Na) work. It's easy to look up online. We did this when we lived up on the mountain...10 years with no grid. Always had a nice cold freezer - and salts are cheaper than batteries!

Keep well Dr K

Posted by: Walter | Mar 13 2020 18:40 utc | 85

Here's the message from America: we are #1, have the best of everything, are smarter than everyone and that's why God favors us as Exceptional.

By the way, how the hell do these virus test kits work?

Masks? We don't need no stinkin' masks.

Protocols? The Chinese are to blame. Oh, you meant protocols. Uh, wash your hands.

We will be #1 when this passes. We are #1. #1. #1.

And wash your hands.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Mar 13 2020 18:40 utc | 86

WHO now give it most severe warning Europe to act!

'Do not let this fire burn': WHO warns Europe over coronavirus

The World Health Organization has stepped up its calls for intensified action to fight the coronavirus pandemic, imploring countries “not to let this fire burn”, as Spain said it would declare a 15-day state of emergency from Saturday.

Posted by: Zanon | Mar 13 2020 18:43 utc | 87

While the US and its "partners" at OIR bombed Iraqi people again to continue "stealing the oil"...and along with UK Prime Minister, and Paul Bogdanich here, remember their citizens that they are going to die in the hundreds of thousands, especially the elders, and thus, stay calm and quiet,.... a paradigm change of biblical proportions is taking place....

Guess who is appearing as world leader by holding moral example in respect for human life and human cooperation...

China also sends medical supplies to Spain to combat the coronavirus

Meanwhile, in Spain, state of alert has been declared, the Spanish president has asked the population to act with civism and responsability and please do not go out for this two weeks unless it is imprescindible to go to work at indispensable posts or it is unavoidable....I fear that law enforcement forces will, sadly, have to intervene...since the attitude amongst the spoiled youth is this one....They are asuring they will double down going out since they are on vacation and, after all, they did not have Christmas holidays because of the exams....The coming economic meltdown will probably put these way too infantilized youth for their age in theur place....


Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 13 2020 18:46 utc | 88

@ Paul Bogdanich | Mar 13 2020 15:15 utc

>> Why are you stoking this irrational panic?

What “panic” are you referring to? I don’t see panic. I see people taking precautions. I don’t see people freaking out, looting, rampaging, etc.

>> The panic is doing more damage than the virus.

“Damage” - What physical or medical injury to humans are you referring to? Sorry in advance if u already said it on another thread.

>> Time will tell.

Everyone agrees with this. The debate is over which *regret* will be worse:
(a) do nothing and later be judged for killing people via recklessly indifferent policies or
(b) do a lot and later realize to have overreacted.

Posted by: oglalla | Mar 13 2020 18:58 utc | 89

: Red Ryder | Mar 13 2020 18:40 utc | 86 USAUSAUSA!

Dude, you forgot to repeat in pathological rant "we're winnin we'rewinnin we're winnin' (sez da fatboy with the substandard 2 year equivalent from Vestpoint...) (Wally was wondering, whadya mean "we"?)

The goof gas cartoon are prescient. Not like they didn't tell us - it's all there as echos from the future...alas, now we are in the future...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 13 2020 18:59 utc | 90

@Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 13 2020 18:11 utc | 73

In an audio heard yesterday at a Whatsapp group, a nurse in Italy was warning how important it is to stay at home, as a way to slow down the rate of infections to not overcrow the health system.

The woman was telling that there is only one grocery and one pharmacy left open there at each neighborhood....

After making yesterday a kinda gymchana through two malls to be able to get my usual ammount of toilet paper, without success, today, once job finished, went to the pharmacy to get my meds, whent ot the mail office to get a pack which otherwise would be returned in a week, and finally tried last intent on the toilet paper at another mall. Got some canned vegetables which yesterday I could not obtain at the other two malls, and got into home to stay for the weekend until Monday, when I will return to work.

There is almost no people out there except for a group of teenagers...In spite that there is a lot of information through radio and TV on that they can be super-spreaders... I fear these will not go home unless carried by police, which to me makes me feel sad.
This is a fire- proof on citizenry. We will never be the same after all this has passed. It is in our hands that we go out of this with pour democracies intact. People who will try to take advantage to get our rights there will be lots, amongst them the perpetrators.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 13 2020 19:09 utc | 91

oglalla 89

Projection is standard shit for the US. Being a goods marine, Bog is projecting his own fears onto others.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 13 2020 19:09 utc | 92

1) Pandemic + Fear in Population
2) Vaccine found and ready to use. Pentagon
3) To stop 1) in the Future we need to know who is where and if they have 2)
4) 3) solved with ID2020
5) Solution to pandemics found, biochip
6) 5) mandated to keep the Masses safe.

Game Over, you have no place to hide. You are seen and control 24/7 Winston.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 19:23 utc | 93

truth @ 18----

Your link no longer works. I read it and found it good. Sent it to some friends who wrote back link not found.

Posted by: arby | Mar 13 2020 19:35 utc | 94

Another paradigm change is taking place also into the EU...whose seams, already way too stretched, may not hold this one...

It is not that the Chinese are promoting their Belt and Road initiative, no, it is that they had pity of us and showed compassion...

European Union: words and "warning touches", but France and Germany stop exporting medical supplies to Spain and Italy.

Brussels has had to give a touch of attention to European partners such as Germany and France who announced a few days ago that they prohibited the export of medical devices. There they produce, for example, Dräger, one of the big treas manufacturers of respirators that are used in Spanish hospitals together with Philips and Hamilton. None of these companies wanted to comment on the situation ...

This is in the heights on lack of solidarity and greed, and a pathetic show of what neoliberalism has brought to us. Of course, both Italy and Spain, once this ends, should reconsider which showed to be a more reliable provider at hard times, even when being located so far away, plus being hit the first and most by the pandemic.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 13 2020 19:40 utc | 95

Gospodin Prez seems (rt dot com/usa/483096-trump-declares-national-emergency-coronavirus/ et sec seems entirely pathetic and out of his depth - and seeks to establish excuses rather than apology. TBS is understatement. More 30? Yewbetcha.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 13 2020 19:48 utc | 96

My thanks to joanne Leon @ 15 for her positive post on matters of social relevance. It resonates with me since it is people oriented and steers away from what isn't being done to what is.

My own daughter, a physical therapist at a university hospital in New Mexico, passed on what she herself has always done as best she can, and that could be termed 'left hand/right hand'. As much as possible she keeps her left hand in her pocket, so she can rub her nose or scratch her face with that. The right hand does the tasks like computer screen activation, any objects or inter personal activities -- and if both hands are needed, she washes them afterward.

Hearing this I thought that I should pass it on, not only so we protect ourselves, but so we protect our friends and neighbors, the ones who might be the next to be rushed to the emergency room unable to breathe. This is what we can do for one another and feel better about doing it. We act as though we are hospital workers in our ordinary lives, and so doing we save lives. We won't know how many - be my guests; think a lot!

Tell this to your kids. They are not just being deprived of all the perks they are used to, this is a special time. They are needed as never before. They will be able to tell their grandkids: I did this to help save people I didn't know back then.

Posted by: juliania | Mar 13 2020 19:53 utc | 98

Posted by: arby | Mar 13 2020 19:35 utc | 94

Well it appears that the panel didn't want the information to escape the panel.

Have a read how one person had to walk back from the posted information that you were trying to find,

walk back

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 13 2020 19:54 utc | 99

juliania | Mar 13 2020 19:53 utc | 98 left hand right hand..

Funny, that's always been a particularity of mine...nobody taught it, just what seemed obvious...and grandpa who was a surgeon in the Spanish American War - his ways. If you touch it, it's on you. Wash, hot water and soap... In his day it meant everything... it still does.

Never mind the toilet paper, buy soap.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 13 2020 20:01 utc | 100

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