Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 19, 2020

False Claims About The Novel Coronavirus And How To Debunk Them

Today China reported zero new domestic cases of novel coronavirus infections. It has beaten the epidemic just as we predicted early on. Other countries with still expanding epidemics will have to adopt all the measures China has taken to also win the fight.

Our extensive reporting about the novel cornonavirus has attracted many new commentators to this site. Unfortunately some of these, as well as some of the regulars, continue to spread disinformation and myths about the current pandemic and its causes.

To keep some level of quality at this site requires an aggressive countering of such comments. But our capacity to do so is limited. We do delete comments that are nonsensical or have been debunked and we do block people who insist on posting or reposting nonsense. But there are now many more comments per day than we can read. We therefore have to ask other commentators to counter the bad false ones.

Here are some of the false claims that are made about the pandemic and the facts needed to debunk them.

Myth:

The novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 is a Chinese virus that comes from bats. It infected people because Chinese people eat bats.

Facts:

The source of the virus is actually not known. The patient number 1, the person who first carried the virus, has not been found. The Wuhan wet market where exotic animals are sold was not the source of the outbreak:

The paper, written by a large group of Chinese researchers from several institutions, offers details about the first 41 hospitalized patients who had confirmed infections with what has been dubbed 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV). In the earliest case, the patient became ill on 1 December 2019 and had no reported link to the seafood market, the authors report. “No epidemiological link was found between the first patient and later cases,” they state. Their data also show that, in total, 13 of the 41 cases had no link to the marketplace. “That’s a big number, 13, with no link,” says Daniel Lucey, an infectious disease specialist at Georgetown University.

While the novel corona virus might be one that was originally carried by bats it is unlikely to have jumped from a bat to a human. The older SARS virus, which is somewhat similar to the novel coronavirus, originated from bats but first spread to other animals before mutating from there into a form that infects humans.

The only place where bats are regularly used as food is the Pacific island Palau which is more or less a U.S. colony. Videos showing Chinese citizens eating fruit bat soup were actually filmed on that island.

Myth:

The virus is related to HIV, the virus that causes aids.

Facts:

Some Indian researchers found four genome sequences in the novel coronavirus that can also be found in the HIV virus. They self published their findings in a paper that was not peer reviewed. We discussed that paper in detail on February 1 in our second post on the virus and we strongly expressed our doubt about its veracity. A few days later the paper was retracted by its authors after other scientists had pointed out that the lengths of each of the four sequences they had compared were way too small to be of statistical significance.

Myth:

Asian people are genetically more receptive for the novel coronavirus.

Fact:

The virus enters human cells by binding to the ACE-2 receptor on the cells hull. There were assertions that people in Asia have more ACE-2 receptors than people elsewhere. But detailed studies of various genome sequence databases have found no statistical basis for such claims. People of Asian, Caucasian or African heritage all have the same numbers of ACE-2 building elements and receptors. The virus will effect them equally.

Myth:

The virus originated from a military weapon research laboratory.

Facts:

There is zero evidence that the virus is from a Chinese or U.S. or other (weapon) laboratory and the claim actually makes no sense. The genome of the virus consists of more then 23,000 'letters'. It is significantly different than the genome of other known viruses. (Added:) It is not lab made:

We offer a perspective on the notable features of the SARS-CoV-2 genome and discuss scenarios by which they could have arisen. Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus.

To artificially create such a complex entity and to test all its variants would have been a program of the size of the Manhattan project and would have cost billions.

Weapon researchers are sane people with a limited budget. They look for methods to defeat an enemy. A virus that affects all humans indiscriminately but kills mostly very old ones would have no military value.

Myth:

Moon of Alabama has downplayed the danger of the virus.

Facts:

Our first post on the issue was headlined The Coronavirus - No Need To Panic. It discussed the infectiousness and fatality rate of the novel coronavirus disease in comparison to other virus caused diseases. We pointed out that it is less infectious and less deadly than for example SARS but never said that it is not dangerous at all. In fact the numbers we pointed out said the opposite.

The piece simple put the current epidemic into perspective. We have since posted a total of 15 detailed pieces on the pandemic. To claim that this is a downplaying of the issue is nonsensical.

---
Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the issue:

Posted by b on March 19, 2020 at 12:19 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@Seer | Mar 20 2020 1:18 utc | 249

One could speculate that COVID-19 was the perfect tool to overthrow a global economic system that was nearing it's end: add in that China's Belt and Road initiative was seen as the end of USD hegemony.

Indeed, everyone can see that politics has failed everywhere. In the US, in European countries (btw. the EU is dead now), so all we have left is take to the streets. Except with this virus they made us fear ourselves and our children, and told us to stay at home while they wreck the economy. And we shall do so because we are loyal to our owners.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 20 2020 7:05 utc | 301

Coronavirus Instructions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TDgR2eq-WE

As COVID-19 spreads, many are looking to stop themselves and their families from getting sick. Dr. Sara Cody of the Santa Clara County's Public Health Department was attempting to give advice on how to avoid the virus and less than a minute later went against her own words.

"Today, start working on not touching your face because one main way viruses spread is when you touch your own mouth, nose or eyes," Cody said moments before licking her own finger to turn a page while delivering instructions for coronavirus.

Raw Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnz95Ssgt3k

First finger lick - 1:04

Second finger lick - 5:04

Posted by: Mao | Mar 20 2020 7:09 utc | 302

Coronavirus Instructions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TDgR2eq-WE

As COVID-19 spreads, many are looking to stop themselves and their families from getting sick. Dr. Sara Cody of the Santa Clara County's Public Health Department was attempting to give advice on how to avoid the virus and less than a minute later went against her own words.

"Today, start working on not touching your face because one main way viruses spread is when you touch your own mouth, nose or eyes," Cody said moments before licking her own finger to turn a page while delivering instructions for coronavirus.

Raw Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnz95Ssgt3k

First finger lick - 1:04

Second finger lick - 5:04

Posted by: Mao | Mar 20 2020 7:10 utc | 303

ted01 298

I couldn't see much in the two US incidents. More just Trump anti China rubbish. Pushing Chinese out of America special the tech area and intellectual property crap.
The Canadian one through, she was involved in researching bugs, though not coronavirus. Canada is not much more than a US state at times so perhaps similar - she had been sending stuff to china in what was information exchange between the research labs and all within protocol until they thought it might not be but weren't sure. Decoupling protecting precious 'intellectual property' from the Chinese.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2020 7:13 utc | 304

jayc @297

Very interesting article - https://www.propublica.org/article/the-trump-administration-drove-him-back-to-china-where-he-invented-a-fast-coronavirus-test

It seems that everyone was happy with the status quo until the Trump anti China program kicked off.

It hard to imagine this was all unknown, but then again American incompetence never ceases to amaze.



Posted by: ted01 | Mar 20 2020 7:21 utc | 305

Interesting read from John P.A. Ioannidis, professor of medicine, of epidemiology and population health, of biomedical data science, and of statistics at Stanford University and co-director of Stanford’s Meta-Research Innovation Center:

The one situation where an entire, closed population was tested was the Diamond Princess cruise ship and its quarantine passengers. The case fatality rate there was 1.0%, but this was a largely elderly population, in which the death rate from Covid-19 is much higher.

Projecting the Diamond Princess mortality rate onto the age structure of the U.S. population, the death rate among people infected with Covid-19 would be 0.125%. But since this estimate is based on extremely thin data — there were just seven deaths among the 700 infected passengers and crew — the real death rate could stretch from five times lower (0.025%) to five times higher (0.625%). It is also possible that some of the passengers who were infected might die later, and that tourists may have different frequencies of chronic diseases — a risk factor for worse outcomes with SARS-CoV-2 infection — than the general population. Adding these extra sources of uncertainty, reasonable estimates for the case fatality ratio in the general U.S. population vary from 0.05% to 1%.

That huge range markedly affects how severe the pandemic is and what should be done. A population-wide case fatality rate of 0.05% is lower than seasonal influenza. If that is the true rate, locking down the world with potentially tremendous social and financial consequences may be totally irrational. It’s like an elephant being attacked by a house cat. Frustrated and trying to avoid the cat, the elephant accidentally jumps off a cliff and dies.

Posted by: Jeff C | Mar 20 2020 7:34 utc | 306

jackrabbit @ 299 < I think you to be correct.. look at this ..
http://cosmicconvergence.org/?p=36445
The extraordinary re-infection rates for COVID-19, also known as the coronavirus bioweapon triggering 5G Flu, offer compelling circumstantial evidence that it’s really an electromagnetic radiation-driven disease more than a bioengineered coronavirus; although, it’s really both co-factors working in tandem to turbo-charge each other.

the ‘inexplicable’ re-infection rates tell the hidden back story about this swiftly unfolding pandemic. The only plausible reason for multiple re-infections, when compared to all previously studied coronavirus outbreaks prior to the WiFi era, is that the former COVID-19 patients have stepped back into their wireless environment, they live in a 5G hotspot, they are creating their own IoT and/or they still sleep with their smartphones — TURNED ON — under their pillows.

http://cosmicconvergence.org/?p=36445

More and more, this global pandemic is beginning to smell to high heaven..it looks not like warfare, but instead more like a theft of the goodies of the individual economies of the separate nation states. One way in the lab to make a virus infect a bacteria cell or human mammalian cells or a target organelle within a cells is to use EMF<= this not only accelerates the infection rate but it also induces a massively greater numbers of infections per sample.
we should all take a close look at this..


Posted by: snake | Mar 20 2020 7:55 utc | 307

gwillard and others

Nature is a UK publication owned by private corporate interests (merger in 2015) who "In 2017, the company agreed to block access to hundreds of articles on its Chinese site, cutting off access to articles on Tibet, Taiwan and China's political elite" Wikipedia entry.

It is no longer a reliable publication should Western political economic interests be involved. It can and will operate as a propaganda publication for those interests. It is highly likely that this article is a part of that propaganda effort to deflect investigation into the potential bioweaponization of the Corona virus.

Over the past 40 years science has been captured by the corporate and financial oligarchy. Our Western universities are dependent on corporate largesse (big pharm, Agribusiness, et al.) for research, done primarily in their interests, and censored (through non-disclosure agreements)when their interests are threatened.

In the West, at least, science and science publications have been coopted and corrupted by the politico-economic "elite". Read anything through a politico-economic filter.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Mar 20 2020 8:00 utc | 308

The lexicon and mathematics of virology make it difficult for the layman to distinguish Coronavirus fact from Coronavirus fiction. However, China's ability to identify the Coronavirus, and the hazard it posed to Humanity, enabled China to formulate a successful strategy to counter the threat.

It's worth noting that China had sufficient confidence in its diagnosis and strategy to share them with the rest of the world, to take its own advice, and to lead by example. Whilst it's understandable that China's claims were treated with skepticism in the pseudo-Christian West, it's neither understandable nor forgivable that the West decided to sit on its wait-and-see hands and do nothing until China's strategy began to bear measurable fruit.

But it's puzzling that even when China's strategy proved to be effective, the West failed to prepare for this non-violent war with anything like the zeal it reserves for preparations to launch violent fake wars, justified by blatant and juvenile lies.

Was the West caught napping, or is it paying the price for excluding grown-ups from its decision-making processes?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 20 2020 8:05 utc | 309

off topic...

The Trump administration is considering intervening in the Saudi-Russian oil-price war, and Texas regulators are weighing whether to curtail crude production for the first time in decades, as U.S. producers suffer from a historic crash in prices.

Administration officials are exploring a diplomatic push to get the Saudis to cut oil production and threats of sanctions on Russia aimed at stabilizing prices, after U.S. oil companies pressed them to intercede, people familiar with the matter said.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-considers-intervention-in-saudi-russia-oil-standoff-11584636054

Posted by: Mao | Mar 20 2020 8:25 utc | 310

For French speakers,
very good paper by Frédéric Lordon on his Monde Diplomatique blog
https://blog.mondediplo.net/les-connards-qui-nous-gouvernent

Posted by: Mina | Mar 20 2020 8:27 utc | 311

IMO the sudden leap in Italian covid fatalities this week right as the western nations got their ducks in a row & began transmission mitigation is highly suss.
Anyone would think Italy was pressured into staying schtum until germany, france, england & amerika had a few basic controls in place.
The slimy neolib pols whose support for globalism in the face of citizen objection was what created the space for a galloping pandemic. Those worthless vote seducers who got us here now claim to be the only ones who can get us out.
I don't reckon so.

Posted by: A User | Mar 20 2020 8:30 utc | 312

`It seems to me the argument of the Taiwanese professor who explains how the US must be the original source of the virus, because it is the only country with all 5 mutated strains, is very logical. It also seems to me that the USA and Trump in particular are making a concerted effort to rename this the "Chinese flu". This is at best shallow and immoral and at worst a deliberate attempt to scapegoat China and hide the fact that the USA is the source. One could add to this that Fort Detrick was closed down because of the possibility of diseases escaping through their waste system and a US team attended the military games in Wuhan, all at appropriate times to have spread the disease to China.
There is at the very least a circumstantial case that the USA is the source of the virus, perhaps accidentally.
Patient zero in China may be hard to find as he is now back in the USA.

Posted by: Ike | Mar 20 2020 8:43 utc | 313

@Lozion #11

Thank you for the link. I find the explanation of Rudolf Steiner rather faszinating. There could well be an effect on human bodies by the growing electrification of our envirenment which is similar to poisoning. At least there is an obvious connection between the great pandemias and the growing radiation. Wuhan is the first city which is blanketed with 5G.

Thank you b for your good work.

Posted by: Lily | Mar 20 2020 8:59 utc | 314

re Ike | Mar 20 2020 8:43 utc | 314
It is worth remembering that the 'spanish flu' got called that because Spain wasn't in WW1 so they had no news censorship and ran stories about the mortality of this illness. Spain's infection rate was lower than USuk, germany or france but all those countries had government agencies actively stopping news of the epidemic.
That is how a flu which seems to have originated in Kansas became known as the spanish flu. 100 years later and as well as neolib msm censorship we have a badly broken amerikan health system, so a disease that prolly originated in amerika gets called the chinese virus. China health system wanted to know why patients were dying but amerika couldn't give a flying fuck about deaths of elderly & therefore non-productive units.
see history rhymes.

Posted by: A User | Mar 20 2020 9:15 utc | 315

@ A User | Mar 20 2020 8:30 utc | 313

The Italian numbers are skewed. >90% 70+ of age, 75% with 2 or even 3 pre-existing serious health issues.
Also, Italians do port-mortem testing, meaning if a patient dies of a heart attack or late stage cancer, gets p-m tested positive for nCOVID, then the deceased is determined to be a victim of COVID. Doesn't make sense.

Report ISS

in Italian. ISS - Italian National Institute of Health

A breakdown in English to be found here
SwissPropagandaResearch

and here (OffGuardian)
Pre-existing health issues

Posted by: Hmpf | Mar 20 2020 9:29 utc | 316

Maybe as an alternative site, you should be taking aim at the disinformation peddled by the government rather than at your readers? Your old readers aren't going to stick around long if they suspect you fall into line whenever you get a government hand on your shoulder.

Posted by: Tom74 | Mar 20 2020 9:50 utc | 317

A User @ 298 says:

It is as if a set of instruction like a D notice has been circulated instructing anyone in a position of trust or influence to squash anything critical of the line being put out by proven self-interested touts for the elites

i've had this impression as well, and strongly, for whatever that's worth. even Trump's and Johnson's turnarounds were delivered with palpable restraint. of course dwelling in the unverifiable is generally fruitless, but nonetheless we do know that the golden rule of propaganda lies in its incessant repetition.

Posted by: john | Mar 20 2020 10:00 utc | 318

Re: #17: "Taking a patent on a virus would imply it is modified rather than something found in the wild." Strangely enough that is not true. It is perfectly possible for a company to patent a naturally occurring product, including a virus. Many different types of agricultural products have also received patents over the years, much to the righteous indignation of other users of those naturally occurring products who are now required by law to pay the patent holder for using them. Often these patents cannot be enforced, but they certainly do exist in large numbers.

Posted by: Billosky | Mar 20 2020 10:08 utc | 319

Jack R @58 re: trumpian deceit;
vk @59 re: british food bank thievery
More great displays of "western values" required for the rest of the world to learn how to be "normal nations".

Posted by: kiwiklown | Mar 20 2020 10:35 utc | 320

If there's anyone here with Covid-19 symptoms developing,give it a try to hang yourself upside down by your feet,or make a triangle with your elbows and head,and stay upside down to the wall,in order to prevent the lungs to fill with slimey matter.
I've found out that it helps with a blocked nose and forehead at some time in my life.

Posted by: willie | Mar 20 2020 10:41 utc | 321

occupatio @ 63
You wrote: "The fixation on bats distracts from the important fact, which is that China primarily has one haplotype (with instances of three others in small counts, including those brought in from from abroad). The China haplotype is distinct from the Iran one, and the Italy one. Therefore none of these locations can be the origin, because where the 'parent' of the virus comes from would also be a place that would have multiple 'children' or haplotypes of the virus. The only place place that has all five haplotypes is the US. You can talk all day about bats but that is to ignore the scientific data about haplotypes and the parent-child relationship it implies."
Thank you for re-directing attention on the burning question of haplotypes and mutational generations. It is for such thought-provoking comments as yours, and of course for B's truthiness, that I make MOA my first read of the day, and sometimes again at night too.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Mar 20 2020 10:52 utc | 322

Hmpf @ 319

The shitstain corporate virus Bloomberg is also reporting this-
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says

Breaking ranks because it is so blindingly obvious as to the demographic mostly being affected?
Or is this the start of the wind back process as the fear mongering is slowly ramped down?

That blithering idiot Trump is pushing the chloroquine line or is it his wishful thinking?

From the Off-Guardian: "Why are the media narratives, and the actions of our governments, totally irreconcilable with statistical reality?"

Posted by: ted01 | Mar 20 2020 10:58 utc | 323

occupatio @63 re: "....racism is not just discrimination, but discrimination from a position of power...."
Thanks again for another great thought from you. Which underscores B's point that racism accounts for the West's derision for China's exemplar effort fighting off covid19, starting on the backfoot from a surprise attack.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Mar 20 2020 11:00 utc | 324

JW @ 64 --You asked "Why are there still so many Western idiots who think China's COVID numbers are fake?"
Answer: "That's because racism is the perpetuation of structures of power...." said Occupatio @63

Posted by: kiwiklown | Mar 20 2020 11:06 utc | 325

An Illustrative Sketch> (which b may or may not permit. if not then apologies in advance)

Wally was sippin' a brew down at the Dewdrop Inn and watchin' his pals Dirty John , Wrongway, and Half-Sack hustle a stranger at Poker... Sally the doe-eyed blond bar-girl slipped into the back, “probably to snort a line of crank”, Wally thought.

The game went on and things got tense. The Stranger was winning, a lot. Wally spied that the back door was unobstructed...and thought "good, now let's see the game".

There musta been a thousand bucks on the table when the Stranger called with a winning hand.

Wrongway pulled his .38 - "let's see those cards of yours, friend".

Stranger kicked over the table and dove out the open front doors, money and cards went everywhere, Wrongway's cannon went off and blew a hole in the mirror by the stuffed two-headed horse. Everybody's ears wuz ringing and the place wus filled with gun-smoke.

Unfortunately for the Stranger, Deputy Curtis Hicks was right outside and collared the Stranger...who had practically tackled him.

"Is y'all finished shootin'?," Deputy Curtis shouted into the smoky Dewdrop, as he snapped the cuffs on the Stranger. (Curtis usually comes by to collect contributions on Thursdays, and it was Thursday)

"Yeah - is that you Curtis?" (Wrongway passed his gun to Wally, who slipped it into the opaque and filthy dishwater filling the sink behind the bar).

Curtis came in, shoving the cuffed Stranger before him, sat him down, and the Stranger began to whine about the cash. Curtis shut his mouth for him with a tap, and the Stranger spit out a bloody tooth through a fat lip. The fellas picked up the money and the cards and set up the furniture, Sally came back and slipped behind the bar, ignoring us, sniffing now and then with her doe-eyes bigger, wider, than before.

At length everybody figured it out. Seems the Stranger's cards were marked. He knew it.

Talkin' funny with a little bit of blood drippin' the Stranger told us why he kicked over the table - "I wus in a zuswang" he said.

"What's that?" asked Wrongway.

"You don't play chess, Ah reckon", replied Stranger. "It's when you can't go back and you can't go forward - yer screwed either way".

"Whadda ya do then?" Curtis wanted to know, tapping the guy with his billy.

Half-Sack and Sally slipped out back, for some reason, but at the back door she turned her head, shook her bangs, and called out loudly answering the question for the Stranger..."That's when you kick over the phuckin' table! Curtis, yer an idiot!". Half-Sack had ‘hold of Sally’s ass as the door slammed.

Wally reached 'round an’ drew a re-fill from the tap.

We all chipped in, well, not Half-Sack, but the rest of us chipped in, and Curtis took the guy to the Greyhound Station and bought him a ticket to Laramie, 100 miles away. He left with the hundred bucks we gave him.

“Ah always leave a fella a way to git out, git away…it’s better. That’s what the Sheriff sez”, remarked Curtis the following Thursday foldin’ his $20 contribution as he finished his brew.

..............

The CV19 is the upset table. The Imperial zuswang is over.

Whether somebody kicked over a slop-bucket or it came from Mars.

Crosstalk to-day pointed out that the monopolar world is gone.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 20 2020 11:12 utc | 326

Jen,Dan of Steele,james,Allen.

The Seveso accident in Italy,in the seventies,was so terrifying,that after it happened European Union and European countries took measures to classify all factories with similar risks fot the population in case of explosion or major fires.They came up with Seveso 1,and Seveso 2 categories of dangerous facctories.There would be protocols and procedures of alarming the population and protecting them.A few months ago,there was a major Seveso 2 factory fire in Rouen,France.Not only they minimized it,it was practically kept out of the news,while all of Rouen's citizens suffered headaches from who knows what kind of toxic black smoke-cloud that spread over hundreds of kilometers.It seems that willie having a good memory was the only person knowing about the original purpose of this classification,because not one single french politician,or newspaper reader came up with a similar references or remarks to this protocol.

So it was clear to me ,again,;that European Union and European nations failed to do the things they promised they would do in order to protect people after this really terrible accident,only surpassed by Bhopal in India,where the USA-based Union Carbide played also a dooming role in leaving a densely populated third world country all by itself to clear up the mess and step aside,discharging responsibility,while people ther are still suffering,like in Falluja,Iraq.
Last year,the one and only reason for minimizing the Lubrisol-fire in Rouen was to hide the enormous failure of the french state.Like I said before,nobody ever steps down anymore for incompetence.

Posted by: willie | Mar 20 2020 11:12 utc | 327

Senator Richard Burr Sold a Fortune in Stocks in light of COVID-19 January intelligence report

After the sales in February, the North Carolina Republican warned a group that the virus could soon cause a major disruption in the United States. Three other senators also sold major holdings around the same time.

[...]

Three other senators also sold major holdings around the time Mr. Burr did, according to the disclosure records: Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California, who is also a member of the Intelligence Committee; James M. Inhofe, Republican of Oklahoma; and Kelly Loeffler, Republican of Georgia.

There's one good news in this: at least now we know that the stereotype that Americans are stupid is false. They are just mean.

Posted by: vk | Mar 20 2020 11:27 utc | 328

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 19 2020 18:20 utc | 105
"I see the grossly immoral Outlaw US Empire beginning to go round-and-round the porcelain bowl...."
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 19 2020 18:20 utc | 106
"... USA / West unprepared because China withheld information..."

Leading the world with their "Western values" to:
-- not allow Iran to buy Swiss medical gear;
-- not lift sanctions on Iran, even temporily;
-- call Iran a corona virus;
-- cause Venezuelans to pay triple for medical gear;
-- lie about China not sharing covid19 information;
-- corner the german vaccine for american use only;
-- fill in the rotten blanks yourself.....

Posted by: kiwiklown | Mar 20 2020 11:33 utc | 329

re: snake | Mar 20 2020 7:55 utc | 310

Your mentioning "How do you know if you have 5G Flu or
5G Syndrome or both?"
(http://cosmicconvergence.org/?p=36445)-reference You take-up today, I referred to yesterday on the Open Thread, not trying to cause any alarm.
Yeah, electromagnetic radiation, general cell mutation rates inclusive cosmic rays, 5G.

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/03/open-thread-2020-22.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef0240a4f38d73200d#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef0240a4f38d73200d
>>>
"...Without further explanation, I'd like to give a 'heads-up' to our serious *polymaths* here.
I ordered a book a few days ago, The Invisible Rainbow: A History of Electricity and Life (AGB Press 2017)
The premise is quite interesting.

Try taking a few minutes and, listen to Arthur Firstenberg (2018) The Hidden Dangers of Wireless & Cell Phone Radiation , Arthur Firstenberg - 5G, Birds, Bees, and Humanity , The First 5G Satellites Are In Space ~ Arthur Firstenberg ~ Planetary Emergency

The *Plasma Universe Theory* has, quenched-my-thirst so-to-speak.
I'd be interested to hear some...comments/ideas.
I'm waitn' to get the book.
I remember readin'/hearin' about *mutations per million at ca. 1/10 of 1 million about 50 yrs ago.
Seamed reasonable then. Nowadays, with the understanding of 'cosmic rays +', it's, 100% realistic.
Thoughts?".
<<<

If one clicks on the MoA-link #134 one will find assorted direct links.
I'd like to add these as well:
https://www.cellphonetaskforce.org/
https://www.cellphonetaskforce.org/5g-from-blankets-to-bullets/

"Part 1/4: Education about the human body with a natural DIRECT current 130 V. electrical system, the same as earth, and all other earthly beings. This natural electrical system is attacked by the man-made electricity (230V) unnatural ALTERNATING current, which irradiates an electromagnetic field that interferes with, which is an environmental assault on, the very vulnerable human body systems, like nerves, blood vessels, organs, lymph, meridians, acupuncture points, chakras, and dantians. The unnatural interference has increased immensely since the year 1980, when the first cell phones came on the market. The information is based on the scientific research of 1G, 2G, 3G and 4G. The deadly effect of 5G on all life on earth, will be explained in part number 4."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh0dphQZxJ0

I promise all here @MoA, you will not be wasting your time.
Promise.
Regards X-

Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 20 2020 11:38 utc | 330

@ ted01 | Mar 20 2020 10:58 utc | 323

I certainly do not know, but distraction, as others have mentioned already, comes to mind. With Repo markets in total disarray a distraction/conditioning of the public seems to be called for.

Posted by: Hmpf | Mar 20 2020 11:42 utc | 331

Pft | Mar 19 2020 23:25 utc | 225
More on Ralph Baric- also known as the Godfather of Corona Virus due in part to a corona virus vaccine patent in 2002 as well as his subsequent research. But Dr. Ralph Baric's lab
is designed to develop drugs against new emerging pathogens focuses on coronaviruses. Baric and his 30-person team partnered with Gilead Sciences, Inc. six years ago to test antiviral drugs such as Remdesivir to curb emerging viral diseases that were then largely overlooked by big pharmaceutical companies.
Gilead Science as you recall struck gold with Tamiflu thanks to Bird Flu scares that followed after SARS. Also known for its association with Donald Rumsfeld.


You are right that it opens up the possibility that it wasn’t necessarily a Military source at the very beginning. But, as with 9/11 there were several groups who would have had to be involved.

Mao | Mar 20 2020 0:15 utc | 240
NGO’s were also responsible for getting Chinese DNA samples before they were thrown out. (Which NGO’s?). Note that they tried to get Russian samples From people in the “west”) before they were also thrown out

Posted by: Ian2 | Mar 20 2020 1:55 utc | 261
Agreed. As Pft and Mao have also implied/said.

Pft | Mar 20 2020 5:07 utc | 286
This does seem to be the way the elite will “cash-in”.
----
So it was all planned beforehand?
----

Peter AU1 | Mar 19 2020 22:01 utc | 204
Peter, the viral spiral that pushes people to make a deadlier "thing" to counteract someones previous attempts at a super killer, is a curse on humanity don't you think?

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 20 2020 11:44 utc | 332

Wally does not have an opinion, yet, about low frequency EM radiation, except that it's probably true in a small sense that LF EMR is marginally injuries. He thinks it's insignificant in individuals, but over decades probably has a measurably deleterious effect on an long-exposure time line in a population. That there is an effect. Wether is matters is another question.

Wally accepts, for the basis of personal health, the science @ ARRL.

see (in search engine) "ARRL RF Safety"
see> arrl[dot]org/rf-radiation-and-
electromagnetic-field-safety

However he freely agrees that "science" is under pressure to distort and falsify.

ARRL> (fragment) "...All life on Earth has adapted to survive in an environment of weak, natural low-frequency electromagnetic fields (in addition to the Earth's static geomagnetic field). Natural low-frequency EM fields come from two main sources: the sun, and thunderstorm activity. But in the last 100 years, man-made fields at much higher intensities and with a very different spectral distribution have altered this natural EM background in ways that are not yet fully understood. Much more research is needed to assess the biological effects of EMR....":

Posted by: Walter | Mar 20 2020 11:50 utc | 333

Merci Mina,pour le lien vers l'article de Lordon.N'ayant pas la télé,et écoutant peu la radio,je n'étais pas conscient de l'inconscience astronomique des ministres français,qui disent blanc un jour ,et noir le lendemain.Ils ne démissionnent jamais pour leur incompétence,mais ils sont fiers de m'interdire de faire du vélo,et se montrer "ferme" vis-à-vis de la crise.Ils devraient ouvrir la possibilité d'acheter les semences et pommes de terres à planter pour les millions de français qui mangent de leur jardins.Mais comme cet habitude folklorique est néfaste dans leur point de vue neo-libéraliste (la religion la plus stupide et meurtrière de tous les temps) je soupçonne que rien ne sera fait pour les producteurs familiaux.Mais toute à l'heure je voyais passer la voiture de Maximo,qui prend les commandes pour les produits congélés livrés plus tard en camion.Comme la priorité est à l'agro-alimentaire,je me demande quand-même pourquoi Maximo ne prend pas les commandes par téléphone.La factrice portait une masque ,pour la première fois.

Beaucoup de bla-bla a la radio,à part hier soir la téléphone sonne,comme tu avait indiqué,dont j'avais déjà écouté des témoignages des "vrais gens",vous savez,ceux qui se font mener par le bout du nez,d'une élection à une autre.

Je ne sais pas comment est votre situation personnelle,mais je vous souhaite bon courage et merci de nous tenir au courant des développement français.Moi ça va,dans mon coin perdu,sauf que je n'ai que 20 euros en portemonnaie,et n'ayant pas carte de retrait, étant à la banque postale,avec les bureaux de poste fermés je n'ai pas moyen d'avoir du liquide en ce moment.

Posted by: willie | Mar 20 2020 12:04 utc | 334

@ Walter 326

I'm sitting here in one of London's busiest hospitals and helping call-up patients due to the mass cancellation of non-acute/non-urgent procedures. We have at least 5 x people turning up every hour with symptoms, most of which are mild enough to be sent back home for the time-being due to our need to manage capacity (we presently have a couple of floors sealed off from general access with serious COVID-19 patients being treated within). I was told yesterday that we may experience the peak here within 2 weeks, sooner than originally predicted. That said the only demographic that is suffering continues to be the elderly, and these are elderly with existing conditions and general poor health.

Your post has truly cheered up my day, thanks for posting and I tip my hat to the genius held within it.

Happy Vernal Equinox to those North of the Equator. I think that people are being saturated with too much fear and it behooves us to get outside, enjoy the sun and stand under open skies.

Posted by: Glossopteris | Mar 20 2020 12:15 utc | 335

So here in France the police have arrested people on the accusation of putting at risk other's peoples lives.This is interesting.Where are they going to lock them up?There is already prison riots on their way,because the prisoners can't see visitors anymore.Government gives each prisoner 40 euros telephone credit,now that's very thoughtful.But in french overcrowded prisons,with often three or four prisoners held in 3x3m cells,the situation will be explosive rapidly.
The cannabis traffic in the banlieu will of course continue,and the mainly arab and african and turkish population,where young people in big families are just not used to staying inside with five or eight other family members in small appertments is bound to create a big problem for police.And being muslims,a lot of them are less scared of death than most europeans,just saying.

By the way,MSM still holds up the Wuhan wet market as its origin.

Posted by: willie | Mar 20 2020 12:21 utc | 336

Wow, a lot less meat vs. crap on MoA comments than typical.

Anyway, some facts to consider:
1) The median age in Italy is 45.5 - it is the 6th oldest nation in the world.
Japan #2, Germany #3, Greece #6, Slovenia #7, Hong Kong #9
2) The median age in the US is 38.1 - #61
3) I can't find data on the median age in the US in 1918, but life expectancy was 36.6 and 42.2, for males/females respectively (Life expectancy today is 76-77 in the US). Safe to say median age was in the 20s, and likely lower 20s to boot. The earliest mention I can find is that the median age in the US was 29.5 in 1960 vs. a life expectancy of 69.8.
4) Random note: India median age: 28.1; Africa average age: 18. This is why nCOV doesn't seem to matter there - those countries are really, really young although there certainly are a few old people around, and some of them are dying.

Thus all the comparison with 1918 flu are bullshit. The 1918 flu killed a hell of a lot more people - and almost everyone was young then - than nCOV can even theoretically. The 1918 flu was much more like SARS-1 only with nCOV type transmission capability.

All these conspiracy theories make the assumption that a "natural" flu can't be that bad - that is flat out wrong.

To make a really bad disease, you have to test - and you have to test en mass. Where are the mass graves of test subjects? Where are the thousands to tens of thousands of missing people? The hundreds to thousands of beds, doctors and technicians needed to examine and care for test subjects? Note this excludes the difficulty of actually designing said disease.

It isn't enough to stick part A onto virus B to make it "better", viruses are notoriously unstable. nCOV in particular is a single strand RNA virus - it has very little capability to error correct (that's why more advanced forms of life have double stranded DNA). As I've mentioned before - viral replication is extremely inefficient. A single virus-infected cell will spew out thousands of virii (many individual virus particles), but maybe 10 will actually be viable because the single strand replication process is so crappy. This is precisely like a nuclear fission reaction: one neutron/virus can cause a chain reaction because it creates more neutrons/virii. (for the record, a uranium fission reaction is started by one neutron breaking up a uranium atom, which releases 3 neutrons. So 10 virii per cell is actually more efficient than nuclear fission)

Designing a virus that can 1) penetrate cells effectively 2) remain viable for extended periods of time 3) is spread efficiently 4) is stable enough to keep the spread/lethality/targeting characteristics 5) is able to be deadly - is really, really, really difficult.

Then let's look at the nCOV disease path:
1) virusemia
2) viral and bacterial pneumonia
3) edema
4) sepsis

This is really complicated. nCOV is only the primary driver in 1) - the initial infection - largely targeting the respiratory tract despite virii being present in blood. Note again the targeting - this is non-trivial to design, and this stage is just like a normal flu.
And again - morons keep talking about "Asians being vulnerable" - Italy, Spain and Iran are showing this to be the idiocy that it is.

The damage nCOV does is sufficient that in some cases - around 20% - infected people get stage 2: where bacteria as well as the original virus (and some new ones) cause pneumonia - because nCOV causes enough damage that it opens the door for everything else. The ensuing edema and sepsis are logical outcomes from 2).

So to put some of these "miracle cures" into perspective:

If you are in stage 2) - you will likely lose some lung capacity permanently. Whether chloroquine or whatever helps - if so, great but the history of miracle cures is that they don't stand up over time and close examination.

Anti-virals - remdesivir or whatever - won't matter unless you take it in stage 1. Are there enough of these to pre-treat everyone? I very much doubt it, even if they're affordable (remdesivir is not).

Vitamin C therapy: If you're in sepsis, you're already screwed. Even if there was some real reduction of mortality - it is incremental at best. You're going to lose lung function, you're going to already have been in the hospital for some time, and you're going to be in the hospital for some time. For most Americans, just the duration of hospital stay is enough to destroy them economically - even ignoring the health bit.

Sadly, the primary treatment for nCOV is: lockdowns to reduce spread, wash hands frequently. That's it.

The economic impact of lockdowns - particularly in the US - is enormous.

I looked at the US Bureau of Labor Statistics to get a rough idea.
Average household spending is: $53,708
Other transportation: $712
Eating out: $3365
Alcohol: $558
Entertainment: $3203
Other: $2214
While some of this spend will transfer over - it is likely a small fraction. A takeout meal or delivery meal vs. a restaurant or bar visit - the takeout is going to be a lot less.
The above categories, excluding Other:, constitute 14.6% of average household spending. If overall spend in these categories drops 2/3rds, that's 10% spending reduction.
The problem is that the US GDP is 70% consumer spending. China's, in comparison, is 38.7%.
10% reduction in household spending = at least 7% GDP reduction. I say at least 7% because GDP is every dollar doing anything - and entire value chains are being disrupted.

For example: one conference is cancelled due to nCOV. airlines cancel flights so pilots, stewardesses, mechanics, fuel suppliers, food suppliers, baggage handlers etc all lose income. Hotels, Airbnb, restaurants and bars around the convention center lose bookings. Convention staff itself, event staff at exhibitor companies, suppliers of giveaways, convention center owner/operator also lose business. Uber/Lyft/taxi lose passengers. The customers of these 1st order businesses affected jobs in turn lose business, which in turn affects their suppliers - rippling all the way down.

One of the reasons why 1st world economy GDPs are so much larger is precisely this interwoven net of value chains; in contrast a really poor, subsistence farming country has really flat and short value chains.

What's the impact of falling GDP? well, Russia's GDP fell in half from 1989 to 1998 - a bit under 5% a year. Russia's life expectancy dropped from 69.2 to 66.9.
To put this in perspective: 70K additional deaths per year due to opiates dropped US life expectancy by 0.3 from 2014 to 2017.
Russia has a smaller population, but it would take around 700K extra deaths in Russia to account for their past life expectancy fall, with about 1 million deaths for the round trip from 69.2 down to 66.9 and back again.
So 5% GDP annual losses = 0.05% deaths in population.
Just contrasting the nCOV mortality rates vs. deaths due to economic despair/poverty - lockdowns so seem to be a net win regardless. Nonetheless, a proper economic response could alleviate this, but it seems highly unlikely in the US since the equivalent losses due to health care profiteering hasn't seemed to matter.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 20 2020 12:51 utc | 337

I read Francis Boyle's interview. So if we accept that the virus has escaped some laboratory, internationally or not, manipulated or not, we have two alternative explanations as to the origin: the virus may have escaped or been released from the laboratory in Wuhan or some US facility in Central Asia or somewhere else. If it came from Wuhan, then it does become significant that the Chinese authorities were less than forthcoming at the beginning of the outbreak. I think this is why the media is making a big deal out of it. If it comes from the US, that would indeed account for the series of "coincidences" that Jackrabbit has detailed.

I don't understand why some don't think the origin is important. It changes the whole narrative and what happens next, who is going to react to whose actions, it determines the liability issues and so on. For those who say that the facts will come out sooner or later, I can only say that I doubt it very much. The same thing was said when the Ukrainian plane was shot down in Tehran. Do we know anything more about it now than we did back then, two and a half months ago, supposing that we haven't forgotten about it altogether?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Mar 20 2020 13:02 utc | 338

je n'étais pas conscient de l'inconscience astronomique des ministres français,qui disent blanc un jour ,et noir le lendemain.

Posted by: willie | Mar 20 2020 12:04 utc | 334

French ministers weren't any worse than other countries'. The situation has been changing hour by hour. If you haven't been listening to the radio either, yes it will be a surprise. Macron did what he had to do, I thought. In the French style somewhat dictatorial, but France has long been like that. Must be the inheritance of Louis XIV.

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 20 2020 13:02 utc | 339

Wake up to the depopulation agenda. It is very real and ongoing.
Every austerity measure from the past and the IMF and worldbank behaviour is a deliberate part of it.
The series of leakages, intentional or unintentional from bio-labs spread out by the US in many countries, is easily explained as preliminary testruns of the depopulation agenda.
Trimming the herd. They even commented in some british media about the Covid-19 epidemy having good sides, removing old people.
Climate alarmism is heavily associated with malthusian memes. Us humans are the enemies and depopulation by a huge factor is both wanted and feasible.

Posted by: Peter Grafström | Mar 20 2020 13:08 utc | 340

If SARS-type or similar viruses could be engineered in a lab as a bio-weapon surely other countries besides U.S. and China have the technological capability to do it. France, Israel, Cuba, Mexico, Germany, Canada, U.K. Russia, Iran, probably even North Korea, to name a few. And wouldn't the leadership of one of these countries be prepared to pull out all stops if faced with an existential threat or imminent regime change? So either the bio-weapon theory represents a much greater risk than people have imagined, or as b suggests, it makes no sense.

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 20 2020 13:13 utc | 341

: willie | Mar 20 2020 12:04 utc | 334 (seeds) " les semences et pommes de terres à planter pour les millions de français qui mangent de leur jardins."

Here, Misses Wally, who is a master gardener and has a large garden, checked yesterday with seed suppliers. She reports that USA seed suppliers are "swamped" with orders. They're doing their best, but the seed supply system for gardeners is entirely inadequate under the new circumstance. Since she always saves seeds this matters very little to us personally. She's planning to make-up garden seed gifts for our neighbors...

Here grocery vegetables come from, used to come from, far away, often by airplane. This supply has deteriorated and, for example, carrots and so forth are becoming scarce.

There are a few small "truck-farms" locally that supply restaurants, or used to. The soil is fantastic for gardening and water is free or cheap, as we're a riverain place. Backyard gardens will blossom this Summer, I bet. And the truck-farms, having lost their restaurant customers, will become more important as they supply people directly, (and illegally, as the State is trying to regulate "over the gate" sales. Nobody's going to pay any attention to That!

.........


Glossopteris | Mar 20 2020 12:15 utc | 335

Glad you liked the story.

Our local hospital (63,000 people live in the County) has tents set up at the door. It may happen that they will create a field hospital at the fairgrounds or a vacant school. I expect so. People seem to be in shock with the suddenness of Change, even though the changes have been going on, they ignored it. Well, not everybody, but most. We were waiting to the next 911 shoe to drop...

Wally visited London in 1962, and (mirabile dictu) put up at the Dorchester...at that time there were still a few visible bomb-shelters, and the locomotives were steam. It's impossible to imagine your situation.

Best of Luck from Anoxia USA

Posted by: Walter | Mar 20 2020 13:23 utc | 342

Hmpf @ 316

Yes. Thanks for posting this. More people need to comment on this official report from the Italian government.

These are about as hard statistics as one is going to get for now, and they call bullshit on the "we're all going to die" panic.

The Off-guardian link boils it down the best:

ISS Report: 99% of Covid19 Deaths had Pre-existing Serious Illness

And the average age of death is still 80.

I don't have the bandwidth to track, but how many of the widely reported cases of people under the age of 50 had pre-existing conditions - like cancer or a heart attack? Young people do die, increasingly so in our poorly nourished, junk food and no exercise culture.

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 20 2020 13:45 utc | 343

willie | Mar 20 2020 10:41 utc | 321

You mean hang upside down like a bat? Now wherever did you get that idea?
------
(Actually early prevention is to keep the airways (nose, throat) clear. This slows down the descent of the virus towards the lowest areas of the lungs. Which have less natural protection down there. Could be why SOME asthma treatments are considered a help (Ventolin, salbutamol), as are expectorants like Fluimicil and nose-throat washouts with salt water.. Be careful there are others which are contraindicated. (ie prednisone etc.)

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 20 2020 13:57 utc | 344

Stop panicking.... The data for this flu is no different than any other.

https://www.targetliberty.com/2020/03/wuhan-death-rate-from-coronavirus-lower.html

Posted by: Greenbean950 | Mar 20 2020 14:14 utc | 345

Currently New York State reports 5711 confirmed cases. Something does not add up here. By the time Wuhan had 5711 cases we were being regaled with video of people dropping dead in the street. By the time Lombardy had 5711 cases the story was triage, exhausted doctors, overworked crematories. The New York number also reflects that testing was basically unavailable until Monday of this week and is still constrained by the gatekeepers. Just saw Cuomo on a video feed and he is nonchalant.

On a slightly different tack there is an assisted living facility two miles from where I sit that has two residents who tested positive. I know this place pretty well, both my parents died there. Figured how to get them in the back door. Many of the residents have children who are A-list by any measure. Many are A- list families and everyone has always been. Three other residents show symptoms and should be tested. Actually all residents and all staff should be tested. No tests. Total stonewalling at every level. There are people over there who do have the POTUS on speed-dial and there are no tests to be had for three days now. I am at the point I do not believe anything.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 20 2020 14:16 utc | 346

Greenbean950 @ 345

the study, published Thursday in the journal Nature Medicine, found that the death rate among people who had symptoms was 1.4% in Wuhan, China, as of Feb. 29.

Also, notice that this is among people with symptoms, if those without systems were added, the death rate is probably at worst only around 0.7%. We are getting close to an indication that COVID-19 is no more lethal than flu.

Nature Medicine is about as mainstream as one can get. Thanks for this hard statistic.

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 20 2020 14:17 utc | 347

Jonathan W | Mar 20 2020 13:02 utc | 338 (escape) If one made it and wanted to use it one would naturally wish to cast blame. Thus one would arrange to have "it" "stolen" or shared, such that the release could be blamed on the enemy.

If one made it and it was accidentally released the same attempt to cast blame would also apply.

Thus Release becomes in fact releases, plural. And best near in Time to one another.

This could happen reciprocally too, both players might surreptitiously seed the other in a diabolical blind tit/tat. And neither agency necessarily knowing much about the actions of their "opponent(s). Three can play. Or four. N >/= 1.

Once the epidemic becomes irretrievably underway (which it seems to be, duh!) what matters is dealing with the urgent new circumstance. Blame may in fact exist, whether negligent or deliberate. Discovering Blame is, for practical reasons, impossible. In all cases even a precise scientific absolute proof cannot create the slightest advantage under the new circumstance.

@ Japan Times see> "The trial of Unit 731"
"... Graduates of Japan’s leading medical universities, prosecutors said, had infected their victims with typhus, anthrax, cholera and bubonic [sic] plague — and later loosed the diseases in Chinese villages. A three-day-old baby was said to have been jabbed with needles and submerged in icy water and live victims dissected without anesthesia. Circles of doctors would cut open screaming women to examine their reproductive organs."

One telling defense was the "Tu quoque"... "You did it too!"

".... Field tests by Unit 731 and other germ and chemical-warfare laboratories in China are estimated to have killed 250,000 people.... U.S. Gen. Douglas MacArthur secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731 in exchange for providing America with their research on biological weapons. Presented with evidence that downed U.S. airmen had been victims of grotesque experiments, MacArthur suppressed the information."

The guys MacArthur "pardoned" went on to work for Uncle Sam doing their jobs on Koreans and Chinese, but on a bigger scale. See the International Report on Germ Warfare 1952 (which Wally has several times suggested...) It's 764 pages with attached documentation, and confirmed by US documents that are public "secrets".

Read the entire documents.

Then ask, when it the Policy (and it was the Policy) change? Is there any material proof the Policy has not continued?

"Everybody does it." “There was a Lt. General Takahasi,” Permyakov said. “He smoked all the time, and he was very nervous. And he said, ‘Didn’t you make biological weapons, too? How can a big country exist without biological weapons. You did it, and we also did it.’ “

Well, yeah. So what? Cat's outta da bag. Blame's irrelevant.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 20 2020 14:22 utc | 348

@ Walter 342

Thanks for the wishes. Please let me extend wishes for the continued health and well-being of you and yours in return.

If I am to candid, I am more concerned about the behavior of my fellow citizens and the UK Government than I am about the virus itself. But we are stretched already with staff now of rotas so that we have a pool of hopefully healthy individuals to replace those that get ill on site. I must admit that usually unflappable colleagues are now looking worried. But then we are in the front-line so our experience is greatly magnified.

I started to consume a single glass of Edradour Scotch Whisky every evening from a bottle I've been saving for 11 years. It certainly warms the spirit.

Take care all.

Posted by: Glossopteris | Mar 20 2020 14:23 utc | 349

Posted by: Copeland | Mar 19 2020 21:23 utc | 193

Copeland, have a look on YT channel for "J.C. on a Bike" on YT as he has some new comments for this video, "Coronavirus Special Report -- J.C. on a bike -- Harvard to the Bighouse"

On the "Harvard to the Bighouse" blog there is new aricle,

China owns Nature magazine’s ass – Debunking “The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2” claiming COVID-19 definitely wasn’t from a lab

Posted on March 19, 2020 by harvard2thebighouse

Interesting part,

Thus, the high-affinity binding of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein to human ACE2 is most likely the result of natural selection on a human or human-like ACE2 that permits another optimal binding solution to arise. This is strong evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is not the product of purposeful manipulation.

As our report mentions right at the start, scientists passed the H5N1 Bird Flu through a series of ferret hosts until it gained ACE2 affinity and then became incredibly virulent, which is what’s seen with COVID-19 since its affinity to ACE2 is orders of magnitude higher than SARS. That process would leave a genome that appears “natural” and not purposeful as well since it wouldn’t leave a genomic smoking gun and would simply appear to be the result of “natural” selection. However the addition of artificial generations produced by this process of passing through ferrets in the lab would create a lot of genetic distance from any possible relatives – precisely what is seen in COVID-19: it forms its own clade and appears very distant from all other bat coronaviruses. So this is lazy research, they’re either unaware of the Bird Flu study or are willfully ignoring it.


Posted by: john brewster | Mar 20 2020 13:45 utc | 343

It was mentioned on here,

Posted by: dan of steele | Mar 19 2020 22:17 utc | 206

We also have a pretty high incidence of cancer here in northern Italy....I seem to remember that one out of every three deaths is from cancer.

Weiße Rose Spirit Lives On ;-)

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 20 2020 14:30 utc | 350

Ditto. It's a sort of war. People will adjust. (I had an aunt who stayed in London, working for the State Department, all through the Blitz and the V weapons...a "flapper" in the 20's, she screwed with great gusto and enthusiasm - especially, she said, the Polish Officers.)

We'll simply do as we must do. Wars are like that. Very disagreeable.

Best!

Posted by: Walter | Mar 20 2020 14:32 utc | 351

@ Posted by: Greenbean950 | Mar 20 2020 14:14 utc | 345

This is valid only if you extrapolate to an alleged number of not-tested people.

Among the people tested positive so far, the death rate is well above 4%, quickly approaching 5% (209,000 infected, more than 10,000 dead).

The death rate of 1,4% is only valid for Wuhan, which has a superior quarantine and healthcare system than in the West for this situation. In Italy, for example, death rate is at 10% (35,000 infected, 3,400 dead); in Spain, the death rate is at 5% (20,000 infected, 1,000 dead as of today).

Posted by: vk | Mar 20 2020 14:36 utc | 352

This is an article on zerohedge this morning by Escobar, who is a Brazilian journalist that travels to Central Asia, China and Iran regularly. I have always found his insight useful. Anyway, to cut a long story short there does seem to be several viable, but competing stories on the origin of this virus, and a lot of disinformation. But what is intriguing about all this, is that - it is absolutely possible (even if not true) that this was some sort of Biowarfare initiated by the U.S. I mean if there is ONE administration that could have, would have, might have done it, its the Trump administration, and they would ALSO openly lie about it. Its definitely possible. That in ITSELF is a problem. The fact that several key elements have been and are in place for the Trump admin to have started all this - is itself an major issue. Now, MOA has correctly indicated that this DID NOT start in the Wuhan animal market. Also, there are patents for a similar COVID type virus that published in November 2018. What is also interesting is that US runs (THROUGH THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT, NOT NIH, or HEALTH DEPARTMENT) a bunch of bio labs in Central Asia. I mean ALL the pieces are in place for this to have happened via the Trump admin. Whether or not this virus can be synthesized by gene splicing or mutation experiments in labs, is very secondary to the fact that it is definitely possible to create something like COVID (the patent proves it). I am having trouble with this 'possibility' - after ALL the international conventions, etc. I see this as some sort of alternate 'nuclear proliferation' issue - maybe AS important. With no checks, controls, balances etc. Anyway, enjoy the read.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/escobar-china-locked-hybrid-war-us

Posted by: doggydogdog | Mar 20 2020 14:46 utc | 353

@ vk | Mar 20 2020 14:36 utc | 352

And exactly there lies the problem. Just had my friend the MD over for coffee. In Germany testing is done in this order a. medical staff, b. hospitalized patients, c. in care facilities with crowded environments if there's reason to suspect infected inhabitants, d. people showing symptoms up to 60 years old. All the others won't be tested unless admitted to a hospital. So, the vast majority of people infected won't get tested for the simple reason a lack of symptoms.

Me? Not tested despite being in contact with said MD who's dealing with nCOVID patients, well without showing symptoms I'd be refused testing anyway. Surprisingly (not really), still alive and kicking ;) . Of course, the prudent way to deal with this incident is to avoid contact with elderly people (70+), family or other, and people with known pre-existing conditions.

Posted by: Hmpf | Mar 20 2020 15:04 utc | 354

Posted by: Walter | Mar 20 2020 14:22 utc | 348

The guys MacArthur "pardoned" went on to work for Uncle Sam doing their jobs on Koreans and Chinese, but on a bigger scale. See the International Report on Germ Warfare 1952 (which Wally has several times suggested...) It's 764 pages with attached documentation, and confirmed by US documents that are public "secrets".

Read the entire documents.

On it :-)

Some controversy but worth checking are books by Sterling Seagrave. I read "Gold Warriors", "Soong Dynasty" and "DRAGON LADY". The first two books make you think a bit more deeply as to what was going on in that Far East during WW II. My proposed answer, a lot of bullsh%$ with MacArthur at the helm.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 20 2020 15:05 utc | 355

A funny thing has happened to the News in Oz. China is only mentioned in the context of having a worse Coronavirus plague than Italy. But when the context shifts to World's Best Practice Japan and Korea are cited as exemplars, not China. I'm not at all surprised by this studious ignorance by the "authorities" in Oz (whom I believe are probably implementing an edited version of China's recommendations).

I record TV programs on a 1Tb hard drive plugged into the USB port on the TV. It's OK, but if the TV station, or 5-eyes, doesn't want viewers recording a program whilst absent (by using the Timer Record facility) they erase the red dot in the Electronic Program Guide - sometimes as little as 30 seconds before the start time, but often repeatedly during the intervening hours.

However, the most irritating interference in viewer recording is that for more than 2 years ALMOST EVERY recording I make of CGTN has a freeze-frame in it which halts playback and resets the TV, rendering the remainder of the session inaccessible and useless. This can happen 1 time in 100 or so with ANY program but 2 times in 3 or 3 times in 4 recordings of CGTN is way beyond coincidence.
So Oz.gov is still locked into the Yellow Peril bs of the Menzies Liberal Government in the 1960s.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 20 2020 15:14 utc | 356

doggydogdog | Mar 20 2020 14:46 utc | 353 (lies) Since the thread is about dispelling myths, it's about lies...so this seems on topic.

They say that truth is the first casualty. See the 1952 (above) International Report.

Of course they're lying. If lips move... In war, people lie about everything...like they do about sex, only worse.

For America, Burroughs saw it coming "'Nothing is Forbidden, Everything is Permitted'" was his description of our truth, a secret truth, but a public secret, nobody wanted to see it. So they mostly didn't.

But of course, he swiped it.

see "The Old Man of the Mountains"

phinnweb [dot] org/neuro/assassins

That's a very interesting story at "neuro". Wally thinks it's on topic...anyway worth keeping. I have no idea how true it is.

His "Thanksgiving Poem is good too. The old junky may have been a criminal dope fiend, but he saw true things, and tried to make us look.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 20 2020 15:16 utc | 357

re: Walter | Mar 20 2020 14:22 utc @ 348

Thanks Walter.

The *International Report on Germ Warfare 1952 pdf* You are referring to is formally called
“Report of the International Scientific Commission for the Investigation of the Facts Concerning Bacterial Warfare in Korea and China” and the 764 page-pdf can be found HERE. .

X-

Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 20 2020 15:17 utc | 358

vk @ 352

Here is the abstract of that paper, which is free. You can get it here

As of 29 February 2020 there were 79,394 confirmed cases and 2,838 deaths from COVID-19 in mainland China. Of these, 48,557 cases and 2,169 deaths occurred in the epicenter, Wuhan. A key public health priority during the emergence of a novel pathogen is estimating clinical severity, which requires properly adjusting for the case ascertainment rate and the delay between symptoms onset and death. Using public and published information, we estimate that the over-all symptomatic case fatality risk (the probability of dying after developing symptoms) of COVID-19 in Wuhan was 1.4% (0.9–2.1%), which is substantially lower than both the corresponding crude or naïve confirmed case fatality risk (2,169/48,557 = 4.5%) and the approximator1 of deaths/deaths + recoveries (2,169/2,169 + 17,572 = 11%) as of 29 February 2020. Compared to those aged 30–59 years, those aged below 30 and above 59 years were 0.6 (0.3–1.1) and 5.1 (4.2–6.1) times more likely to die after developing symptoms. The risk of symptomatic infection increased with age (for example, at ~4% per year among adults aged 30–60 years).

The fatality rate is for people who have developed symptoms. It doesn't include the large number of people who test positive and have no symptoms.

You clearly have a POV.

The death rate of 1,4% is only valid for Wuhan

Because another way to report the same result would be

We have hard statistics on a major outbreak, and they are less horrifying than we have been told. We don't know how it might apply to other cases.

You are speculating. Let me speculate in the opposite direction. Here is a quote from another Nature Medicine paper:

It is relevant to note that in the early stage of the 2009 H1N1 influenza virus pandemic, case-fatality estimates as high as 10% were reported. However, population-based age-stratified sero-epidemiological studies revealed that the true overall case fatality was about 0.001% (ref. 14).

I would trust the historical trend that early reports of infectivity are wildly inflated, as opposed to your speculation that exactly the opposite is going to happen in this case

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 20 2020 15:19 utc | 359

roger. many thanks, Dude!
Wally's going to go.
Antique drill-press calls to him for tender ministrations, and gardening with the XYL.

Our sky is as beautiful as my childhood memories of clear sky...

It was the best of times, and it was the worst...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 20 2020 15:22 utc | 360

@ Posted by: Hmpf | Mar 20 2020 15:04 utc | 354

Exactly. The argument that the real mortality rate is very low can only be applied to Wuhan, which was ground zero, and where, later, the epidemic was successfully contained and testing reached practically 100% of the population.

Maybe, at the end of the day, the European death rates converge with Wuhan's 1.4%. However, it is important to highlight the fact that Italy and Spain, for example, have much inferior logistics capacity and healthcare system than China. In this regard, their death rates may remain high, and even increase to catastrophic levels (10-15%) before a vaccine is developed (we're at least 11 months from that).

So, yes, only a tiny fraction of people in the West (and here I'm including Japan, which is a Western nation in all but ethnicity) was tested so far - but the number of deaths will also rise.

Posted by: vk | Mar 20 2020 15:24 utc | 361

Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 20 2020 8:05 utc | 309:

Was the West caught napping, or is it paying the price for excluding grown-ups from its decision-making processes?

In the context of a hybrid war with China, the West's lack of preparation is likely much less benign than you allow yourself to contemplate:

The Empire Games Covid-19

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 20 2020 15:34 utc | 362

@ ted01 - i was aware of those examples you cited.. i wonder if or how it ties into all this?

@ willie... thanks for the example from france on that and for your other posts too...

@ oldhippie... interesting local analysis.. i am not sure what to make of it all.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Mar 20 2020 15:40 utc | 363

Jonathan W | Mar 20 2020 13:02 utc | 338

Many thanks for clarifying this so well!

Posted by: RJPJR | Mar 20 2020 15:46 utc | 364

john brewster @359

The real danger was always in the possibility that the healthcare system is overwhelmed. Then you get large numbers of unnecessary deaths.

So a country needs to flatten the curve. The best way to do that is to close the schools as soon as community spread is detected. In the West, this should've been done in early February - it wasn't.

By mid-February, it was clear that certain drugs and anti-virals were effective. It was important to have widespread tests so that these drugs could be administered early, especially to vulnerable populations. Yet weeks later, the West (especially USA) was still unprepared to test.

There didn't need to be a crisis or a panic. But a CRISIS! is something that is politically useful: to direct hate against China; to provide extraordinary support to favored interests like Banks and Wall Street and Boeing.

The Empire Games Covid-19

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 20 2020 15:47 utc | 365

@oldhippie #349
The majority of China cases were before testing kits even existed.
The numbers from any place have to take into account the amount of testing being done.
New York is aggressively testing, many other places are not.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 20 2020 15:50 utc | 366

There appears to be actual preliminary evidence that Chloroquine (and a derivative, hydroxychloroquine) may prove to be an effective treatment for the Evil Virus:


Upon study completion, twenty patients had received treatment and 16 were untreated controls. By day 6 of the study, 70% of treated patients no longer harbored virus as determined by RT-PCR, compared with 12.5% of controls.

The same essay on Virology Blog also explains how the virus invades a cell.

Entry of enveloped viruses into cells requires fusion of viral and cell membranes to allow release of the viral genome into the cytoplasm. In many cases, after virus particles bind to cell surface receptors, they are taken into cells via the endocytic pathway. As these vesicles move toward the nucleus, their pH drops, which catalyzes fusion of viral and cell membranes.

When cells are treated with chloroquine the pH of the endosome is elevated, which prevents fusion and blocks viral infection. The reproduction of many viruses is known to be inhibited by chloroquine.


While this clinical treatment trial is small and non-blinded, the primary endpoint is objective (as opposed to subjective questionnaires) so blinding is less of an issue, especially with such a huge difference between treated and non-treated cohorts. No statistical magic is needed to magnify the results.

Adverse effects are rather harsh and not to be taken lightly, but I imagine much better than intubation (uggh!). So perhaps Trump's incoherent mutterings about possible treatment actually have a factual basis after all. It's safe to assume bigger trials are already under way and that ethical review, etc. will be fast-tracked.

Most of us will survive the virus, and effective treatments will shorten the crisis considerably. Unfortunately, just like after the 2011 Japanese earthquake, it is the financial tsunami triggered by the virus that will do the most damage. And that tsunami is still building up just past the breakwater.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 20 2020 16:15 utc | 367

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 20 2020 16:15 utc | 367

Most of us will survive the virus, and effective treatments will shorten the crisis considerably. Unfortunately, just like after the 2011 Japanese earthquake, it is the financial tsunami triggered by the virus that will do the most damage. And that tsunami is still building up just past the breakwater.

That's a perfect lead-in for what I would like to share. What's the economic impact of Covid-19.

MIT Economist on Coronavirus: Young People “Going to Get Squashed”

Economist and economic historian Peter Temin, Professor Emeritus of Economics at MIT and author of The Vanishing Middle Class, has described America using a powerful “dual economy” model first created by West Indian economist and Nobel laureate W. Arthur Lewis. Common in developing countries, dual economies feature a splitting into two separate sectors where people’s lives are vastly different. As Temin sees it, the U.S. now features an affluent sector, about 20% of the population, where people have stable lives and good jobs and an increasingly separate, low-wage sector, roughly 80%, where people struggle to get by and find fewer and fewer ways to improve their lot. In a conversation with the Institute for New Economic Thinking, Temin explains what the COVID-19 pandemic reveals about this system, who is most economically at risk, and what it will take to fix things./BLOCKQUOTE>

link

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 20 2020 16:24 utc | 368

Unfortunately, in terms of the Nature article, the question remains: true or false? All of the author affiliations are institutions with connections to their defense establishments. Which, of course, is to be expected because the latter do need to know things just as much as, if not more than, scientists, but it also means that the article may have been generated specifically to label anyone with questions about the origin as a crazy conspiracy theorist. The problem for those of us without virology expertise is: whom can we trust to be objective in their analysis, and how good at analysis are they (given that on March 14 our CDC uploaded to youtube a video telling young people that even if they have symptoms, they just need to stay home for 2 weeks and don't need to be tested)?

Posted by: Zee | Mar 20 2020 16:26 utc | 369

@snake #3o7 Re: 5G

That sounds awful. Humanity has never refrained though from any discovery or invention and it will certainly not do it now. So there is really nothing we can do about it, is there? Life on this planet is getting more difficult for humans.They might adept to the new conditions. The fittest will survive. Probably a new spezies will develop. It will be less sensitive and less sympathetic towards each other, less social and without compassion.

Posted by: Lily | Mar 20 2020 17:25 utc | 370

From the Wall Street Journal. Read the comments too. It's a short article.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wuhan-death-rate-from-coronavirus-lower-than-previously-estimated-study-finds-2020-03-20?mod=home-page

Posted by: Greenbean950 | Mar 20 2020 17:30 utc | 371

occupatio @ 181. I am not a fan of Varoufakis, but

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLfHpvJKNg0

was .. not too bad, not crazy, and interesting, OK on health care for ex, etc.

DIEM25, which must be called *his* pol party:

https://diem25.org

is strongly Pro-EU, see for ex.

That is why we have come together despite our diverse political traditions - Green, radical left, liberal - in order to repair the EU. The EU needs to become a realm of shared prosperity, peace and solidarity for all Europeans. We must act quickly, before the EU disintegrates.

(Bashing Trump is easy.) In short, *change the EU from the inside*, an old mantra, from the conservative / pandering / .. so called ‘left.’

Note that Laura (third young wife of Corbyn) is involved with Yanis and his party, which may not have done Jeremy any good.

One ex.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyns-wife-laura-alvarez-to-help-launch-radical-pro-eu-campaign_uk_5c94d452e4b01ebeef0e1d89

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 20 2020 17:40 utc | 372

Word from the street: one Safeway in SF - no restrictions but no TP, almost no pasta, no rice or beans. About 1/3 of fruit/veggie section empty. Frozen pizzas mostly gone. Meat and seafood around though.
The other Safeway: 50 person long line to get in. Restricting to total of 50 customers inside at one time. No TP, most or bread aisle empty. There was some pasta and plenty of the expensive meats. Cheap meat : I.e. chicken gone.
I asked the checker because I went there to get some rice: he said you have to go really early in the AM to get rice. This one opens at 6 am now until 10 pm.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 20 2020 17:48 utc | 373

Jackrabbit @ 365

I agree that overwhelming the healthcare system is the real danger.

Where I disagree is that the stats prove that is likely. On this topic, I have posted only articles that deal in hard statistics. They don't convince me that this "pandemic" declaration is kosher.

1. I have posted articles from professional statisticians saying much of the methodology is flawed and the published rates are meaningless. Definitions of exposed, infected, asymptomatic are all over the map. False positive rates on tests are quoted at 50%. In Italy, post-mortem findings of Covid in people who die of the co-morbidities (e.g., heart attack) cause the deaths to be listed as covid-caused. Death rates of existing flu is questionable, based on the category being polluted by ordinary pneumonia cases. Same applies to misreporting ordinary flu as covid.

2. I have posted the stats on the Diamond Princess, with only 20% infected in an elderly, confined, and exposed population, with only a 0.2% death rate.

3. I have recommended an article from the Italian health service (ISS), showing that 99% of the deaths had a pre-existing condition. Italy is different than the US. It has a much older population. And, interestingly, it is the old who are dying.

4. This sub-thread arose from the Nature Medicine paper on Wuhan. That showed the elderly dying at five times the rate of those under 60.

IMHO, it doesn't take much to manipulate the statistics and the news coverage to inflate a severe flu (whose ordinary death rate is something like 0.7-1.0% into the 2.5% rate that might overwhelm hospitals if things are mis-managed. The statistics are manipulated by not mentioning the 99% co-morbidity, not mentioning that the average age of the dead is 80.

Given the Wuhan average rate of 1.4% and the over-60 multiplier of five, the elderly are dying at a 7% rate. If you slant the news coverage to over-emphasize the elderly, voila, you have a pandemic.

With that risk multiplier and average age of death, my question is why is no one is talking about quarantining ONLY THE ELDERLY and/or those with existing co-morbidities instead of shutting down the economy? Why? Because, I agree with you that the whole thing is a setup for stealth bailouts and more asset grabbing by the 1%. They get bailed out, and the 99% gets $1,000 once. Yet another screw job.

Also, I am not convinced the US has waited too long to implement quarantines. My county has a population of 800,000 people. At this time, it has 8 reported positive tests. Now, I grant that testing has been minimal. But they have already closed schools, city government buildings, restaurants and bars; and they have banned gatherings of over 25 people. Again, I grant that these measures might not be Draconian enough to be effective; but they are in place way before a mess like that in Italy has appeared in the US.

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 20 2020 17:51 utc | 374

c1ue @ 373

So what? The same panic happened here a week ago? Since then, shelves have been re-stocked. I have been able to find just about everything I need except TP. Yesterday, I bought potatoes, rice, fresh and frozen fruits and vegetables, cold cuts, fresh fish, and canned soup. Of course, there are now panic buying rules for TP and a few other items.

You didn't mention if the local SF panic was driven by Gov. Newsome's declaration that everyone has to stay in their homes. Is that the cause?

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 20 2020 17:59 utc | 375

doggydogdog | Mar 20 2020 14:46 utc | 353:

I mean if there is ONE administration that could have, would have, might have done it, its the Trump administration, and they would ALSO openly lie about it.

All administrations would have done it. It was either LBJ or Nixon that contemplated on using nukes against the North Vietnamese. Obama's administration played a large part in the war against Libya and Syria. IMO, post-JFK, who sits in the Oval Office no longer matters.

Posted by: Ian2 | Mar 20 2020 18:02 utc | 376

Important and makes sense (to layman like me) : Copeland | Mar 19 2020 19:15 utc | 133
https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/01/31/logistical-and-technical-analysis-of-the-origins-of-the-wuhan-coronavirus-2019-ncov/
It's counterweight to Nature article. There's also a brief comment on that article.

As noted: h | Mar 19 2020 19:37 utc | 148
"It's an excellent read and well worth ones time"
And I point everyone to read and see that Nature didn't prove anything. They may be covering up years of tinkering the devil and inventing viruses.

And: Kassandra | Mar 19 2020 22:00 utc | 202
And Pft | Mar 19 2020 23:25 utc | 225
Also: BJ | Mar 19 2020 14:00 utc | 21.

So, it's either gonna be worse or lock downs are to much, as in Jeff C | Mar 20 2020 7:34 utc | 306.

Interesting
doggydogdog | Mar 20 2020 14:46 utc | 353

Posted by: Saraj | Mar 20 2020 18:33 utc | 377

Haven't read everything yet, and maybe this is just another of the inevitable myriad 'amazing cures!!!!' but, FWIW...Vit C? Please post any and all counters to this.
https://lynnemctaggart.com/a-cheap-cure-for-the-coronavirus/?utm_source=lynmctaggart&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=lynmctaggart&utm_content=A+cheap+cure+for+the+coronavirus

Posted by: Nancy | Mar 20 2020 18:35 utc | 378

As CitizenX | Mar 19 2020 19:14 utc | 132 says:
" Notice the Economic Sanctions have NOT been lifted? That alone should clarify what sort of vile regimes run by vile humans with vile values exist in power today. "

MoA should make a piece just on inhuman sanctions to Iran that aggravate the epidemic.

Posted by: Saraj | Mar 20 2020 18:35 utc | 379

Dear b

I generally appreciate your work.

However your decision to nominate yourself as an authority on "The Truth" to the extent that you publish a little toolkit to 'debunk' 'myths' about the true nature of this pandemic, the nature of which is still unfolding and unclear to many specialists in the field of epidemiology seems premature and arrogant.

Please consider before you take a position purporting to have some level of monopoly on "The Truth", especially since despite your ability to use a search engine, you are not an informed specialist in any of the fields of inquiry required to delve deeply into the true nature of this phenomenon.

In short: Take care before you hand out cudgels to bludgeon others into shaping the truth into the form acceptable to you ...

Posted by: Arch Mangle | Mar 20 2020 18:36 utc | 380

@BJ #21

Do you actually have evidence that that research on 'chimeric coronaviruses' was conducted in Wuhan? If you go to the original paper, you'll find that it has 15 co-authors, one in Switzerland, one in Massachusetts, one in Arkansas, ten in North Carolina, and just two in China. As 80% of the authors are based in the USA, my guess is that that is where the research was conducted, probably at Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

I might be wrong, but if I'm not, it would count against your theory that the virus escaped in China, and would be (very weak) circumstantial evidence that it first escaped in the USA, and perhaps travelled to Wuhan with the strangely unimpressive American military sports team. Talking of which, did the Chinese ever release the nationality/ies of the five contestants who were treated for serious flu-like symptoms?

Posted by: kgbgb | Mar 20 2020 18:56 utc | 381

Nancy | Mar 20 2020 18:35 utc | 378

re Intravenous Vit C. Yes, indeed. An American Dr MD Thomas Levy has been promoting its use for years and suggests that the form of lypospheric-C [AKA lipo-] is also extremely effective.

I can attest to the Lypo-C effectiveness, been using it for years. The particular maker is Liveon Labs in Nevada. There are others.

In crude explanation, the C is encapsulated within a lipid shell as micron-range particles, thus passing thru the bloodstream and a higher %age reaches the cells, whose own lipid-membrane consumes the shell and releases the C at the cell.

This is just simple statement of my subjective experience over last 10 years or so.

Other than paying lots of $, I have no affiliation with any maker.

Posted by: chu teh | Mar 20 2020 19:28 utc | 382

Saraj | Mar 20 2020 18:35 utc | 379

...Economic Sanctions have NOT been lifted? That alone should clarify what sort of vile regimes run by vile humans with vile values exist in power today. ...

That is surely a doubtless "tell" of the suppressive intentions and faux integrity of the ruling types.

And brings to mind Emma Lazarus' ...yearning to breathe free... to be found on the Statue of Liberty.

Posted by: chuteh | Mar 20 2020 19:42 utc | 383

Here's a little article about the Favipiravir, one of the "most promissing" drugs against COVID-19:

Favipiravir 'very effective' against COVID-19, clinical trials show

"A clinical trial was conducted in Shenzhen, which involves 80 patients," said Zhang Xinmin, head of China National Center for Biotech Development.

The medicine can shorten the recovery time from 11 days to four days for mild and regular cases, the trial showed.

Another trial in Wuhan found the medicine can also shorten fever duration from an averaged 4.2 days to 2.5 days.

So, the drug only shortens the period of recovery (i.e. of patients who wouldn't die from the disease in the first place), and even then only for the "mild and regular cases".

The study also only covered 80 cases - for the area of medicine, almost the same as nothing (unless you're trialing for an very rare disease).

The article also briefly talks about the vaunted Remdesivir:

Not much information was provided for the trials of other medicines, including Remdesivir, which was given to a lot of hope weeks ago but now discovered to have certain side effects.

Long story short: let's calm down about these "promising drugs". They are not cures.


Posted by: vk | Mar 20 2020 19:45 utc | 384

@307/@370 Yes, I can't explain it rationally but my intuition is that somehow 5G is connected to the fast spread in Wuhan. Others may prefer to keep their Inner Voice shut..

Posted by: Lozion | Mar 20 2020 19:54 utc | 385

john brewster 359

All people showing symptoms in China are confirmed cases. Many not show symptoms are confirmed cases. China has been aggressively tracking and testing not to mention the monitoring of all public place.
China's number of confirmed cases will be very close to the full spread of the disease. South Korea the same. Both have contained the outbreaks.
Their numbers show that around 3-5% who are confirmed to have the disease will die from it. All other numbers are meaningless. Clowns like yourself who would like this to be nothing more than the flue grab every underestimation they can and say there is a huge number of undetected cases to try and prove their point but looking at what China and south Korea have been doing, that is complete garbage.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2020 19:56 utc | 386

Lozion Does Italy and Iran have 5G

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2020 20:02 utc | 387

An interesting piece today by Kevin Barrett. He argues that the US bioweapon facilities have to be closed down now, whether covid-19 is a form of biowarfare or not. He believes it is.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Mar 20 2020 20:02 utc | 388

vk
Any drug has side effects on some people and there is also interactions with other medication. Having a range of effective antivirals gets around these problems in most cases. The bases line here is that a number of known drugs are very affective againsty this coronavirus. The main problem is the quantities required to cover a pandemic. Korea was only giving anti virals to those deemed at risk.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2020 20:07 utc | 389

Italy 627 in one day.
Normal influenza season 187-241 per week.
https://www.epicentro.iss.it/influenza/flunews#mortalita
Its serious.
China managed total lockdown, but Italy is failing to do the same.
They will pay the price.

Posted by: Kaiama | Mar 20 2020 20:09 utc | 390

Peter @ AU1

So its down to "clowns like you" and "complete garbage"? How civilized - not.

Basically you've made up your mind, whereas my mind is open. I have listed several studies in major journals that say your 3-5% statistic is wrong. I am open to examining new evidence. Why don't you provide statistics instead of insults?

Amatuers like you and I are hardly going to have the last word on this. The matter is under debate by scientists, and under propaganda pressure from TPTB who see a fabulous chance for government bailouts and a stock market soft landing.

I love people who have always been justifiably suspicious of the media (both corporate and alt- ) swallowing every last drop of "panic now" without a qualm.

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 20 2020 20:12 utc | 391

Sorry. john brewster @ 391 should be addressed to Peter AU1 @ 386

While I'm at it...

You reject any counter-statistics on the death rate, but you are pedal to the metal for the completely unproven 5G theory? Not saying its wrong; just saying it has a lot less evidence than the lower death rate data.

You really need to acknowledge that everyone brings their own mindset to the discussion.

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 20 2020 20:18 utc | 392

brewster
Yanks crap on about free speech. To them it means the freedom to spread any bullshit under the sun without it being called bullshit. The numbers and information are publicly available on this coronavirus.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2020 20:19 utc | 393

Peter AU1 @ 393

Yanks crap on about free speech.

Oh, now I'm a yankee who craps. How polite. How well mannered. And just reducing me to "a yank"...pathetic ad hominem.

The numbers and information are publicly available on this coronavirus.

And so are the numbers and information I posted.

I gave citations to reputable journals. You gave me insults.

If your case is so strong, give me three journal citations that I can download and read. I am a trained scientist. I worked in drug discovery. I can read a scientifc paper. In fact I have taken the position I have based on the scientific papers I have read.

Such papers do not include insults.

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 20 2020 20:27 utc | 394

Posted by: JW | Mar 19 2020 16:42 utc | 64

It seems to me that there is widespread innumeracy, even among so-called educated people. A striking example two days ago was an article in Bloomberg that interpreted $1 billion as being equal to £90 million pounds, not once but twice in the same article! Maybe that has something to do with it?

Posted by: foolisholdman | Mar 20 2020 20:27 utc | 395

Current numbers for Hubei where the situation has stabilised.
Total confirmed cases 67,800
Total deaths to date 3,133
Recovered 58,382
Active cases 6,285

As both China and South Korea have contained their outbreaks it can be assumed they have identified virtually all infected people so their numbers of confirmed cases will be very close to the full spread of the disease.
Numbers show 3-5% fatality. Some of those ealy stats were very misleading in two ways.
The first was that it compared current deaths to current confirmed cases. That was at a point when confirmed cases were rising exponentially. Second, it assumed there was a large percentage of unidentified cases. To hang onto that shit now when the numbers are clear is a selfcomfort willy tugging exercise.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2020 20:39 utc | 396

Coronavirus Outbreak (COVID - 19): WHO Update (20 March 2020)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6G3N_nFLqQ

Posted by: JC | Mar 20 2020 20:41 utc | 397

>the Statue of Liberty.

That ole thing is still in New York harbor? Last I heard, and that was *years* ago, there was a giant sign hanging around its neck saying, "Keep Out".

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 20 2020 20:42 utc | 398

Peter AU1 @ 396

I keep asking for journal citations, but you can't even give me a link to a news story.

You just assert some statistics with zero provenance and expect me to swallow them.

Give.me.three.citations.

If your case is so strong, that should be trivial

Posted by: john brewster | Mar 20 2020 20:45 utc | 399

@vk

1. China isn't communist in anything but rhetoric. Putting aside the whole issue of whether the 20th century vanguard parties were ever communist (they weren't), China hasn't even been that for decades. It's now a state capitalist society. And yes, I know about Jeff Brown's stupid little book; don't waste your time trying to link me to it.

and

2. I've literally repeatedly made the point that even if the party leadership knew nothing about these local actions, the local actions themselves are damning of the widespread environment of suppression in China. This is a concept you refuse to engage with.

As for everyone else, yeah, the environment in China is absurdly bad and repressive. Wow, you found a video of a guy arguing with a cop and not getting shot. Cool. (I can find plenty of videos of that in the US by the way. As bad as American piggies are, most people in fact do not get murdered by them). That doesn't change the fact that literally the entire country resides behind an internet Great Wall, that the Chinese government attempts to monitor all of its citizens communications (as demonstrated by this entire Li Wenliang episode), and that the country is trying to implement a bizarre social credit system which will turn 'trouble makers', a category which includes people like labor activists, into pariahs.

Just because the American Empire is shit (and it most definitely is) doesn't automatically make governments outside the Imperial sphere not also shit in their own ways.

Posted by: Benjamin | Mar 20 2020 20:45 utc | 400

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