Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 11, 2020

Coronavirus - The Hidden Cases - Why We Must Shut Everything Down And Do It Now

The powers that be in our 'western' societies have decided to do nothing significant against the onslaught the novel coronavirus SARS-Cov-2 is now causing.

There will not even be an attempt to do like China or South Korea which have thrown all resources at stopping the spread of the virus while it was still possible. The 'west' now seem to be beyond that point.

The British Prime Minister Boris Johnson floated the idea to "take it on the chin" -  i.e. to do nothing to soften the blow the epidemic will cause. Chancellor Angela Merkel in Germany told her parliamentary group that 60-70% of all Germans will catch the virus. Most of them will fall ill with the Covid-19 disease the virus causes. At a 1% death rate this means that more than 500.000 Germans will die from it. Merkel did not say how she would try to prevent that. So far little was done by her administration to stop a further public spreading of the disease.

The Donald Trump administration has done its best to prevent an early detection of the outbreak in Washington State and likely also elsewhere:

As luck would have it, Dr. Chu had a way to monitor the region. For months, as part of a research project into the flu, she and a team of researchers had been collecting nasal swabs from residents experiencing symptoms throughout the Puget Sound region.

To repurpose the tests for monitoring the coronavirus, they would need the support of state and federal officials. But nearly everywhere Dr. Chu turned, officials repeatedly rejected the idea, interviews and emails show, even as weeks crawled by and outbreaks emerged in countries outside of China, where the infection began.

By Feb. 25, Dr. Chu and her colleagues could not bear to wait any longer. They began performing coronavirus tests, without government approval.

What came back confirmed their worst fear. They quickly had a positive test from a local teenager with no recent travel history. The coronavirus had already established itself on American soil without anybody realizing it.

The CDC and the FDA would not have that:

The message from the federal government was blunt. “What they said on that phone call very clearly was cease and desist to Helen Chu,” Dr. Lindquist [the state epidemiologist in Washington] remembered. “Stop testing.”

Our dear leaders are following the four stage strategy (vid):

In stage one we say "Nothing is going to happen".
Stage two we say something may be going to happen but we should do nothing about it.
Stage three: We say maybe we should do something about it but there is nothing we can do.
Stage four: We say maybe there was something that could have been done but it is too late now.

Yascha Mounk follows my argument and gives a reasonable advice on what we can do to make this as pandemic as survivable as possible. Shut everything down that can be shut down. Increase social distance as much as possible. Avoid all live social contacts wherever possible. Do it NOW!

One Tomas Pueyo explains in detail why we must do this immediately. (I checked his numbers and find no faults with them.)

Wuhan city in China was shut down on January 23. Twelve days later, on February 4, the newly confirmed cases in Wuhan reached their peak and declined from there. This gives us the time delay from an infection to become a diagnosed and counted case as the shutdown increased the social distance and lowered the number of new infections.

Each newly infected person itself infected two or three other persons. The growth rate was thereby exponential until they shut the city down. Had the city not been shut down on January 23 the numbers beyond February 4 would have gone higher and higher. That will happen in our cities and countries as our authorities are unwilling or unable to act as early and as decisively as the Chinese authorities did.


Source: Tomas Pueyo - bigger - full

Pueyo:

This is one of the most important charts.

It shows in orange histograms the daily official number of cases in the Hubei province: How many people were diagnosed that day.

The grey histograms show the true daily coronavirus cases. Crucially, these weren’t know at the time. We can only figure them out looking backwards.

What this means is that the orange histograms show you what authorities knew, and the grey ones what was really happening.

On January 21st, the number of new diagnosed cases (orange) is exploding: there are around 100 new cases. In reality, there were 1,500 new cases that day, growing exponentially. But the authorities didn’t know that. What they knew was that suddenly there were 100 new cases of this new illness.

Two days later, authorities shut down Wuhan. At that point, the number of diagnosed daily new cases was ~400. Note that number: they made a decision to close the city with just 400 new cases in a day. In reality, there were 2,500 new cases that day, but they didn’t know that.

This means that we must all act now because today the numbers in Washington state and elsewhere are already exploding even though we do not know yet how high they really are. Those people who do get infected today will only become official cases twelve or more days from now when they will (hopefully) be diagnosed and counted.

The key thing to do now is 'social distancing'. As our governments do not act decisively to achieve that it is our personal responsibility to do that ourselves. Everyone must do this to the best of their abilities.

These numbers are not fantasies but today's reality:

Washington State is the US’s Wuhan. The number of cases there is growing exponentially.
...
Spain has very similar numbers as France (1,200 cases vs. 1,400, and both have 30 deaths). That means the same rules are valid: Spain has probably upwards of 20k true cases already.

In the Comunidad de Madrid region, with 600 official cases and 17 deaths, the true number of cases is likely between 10,000 and 60,000.

If you read these data and tell yourself: “Impossible, this can’t be true”, just think this: With this number of cases, Wuhan was already in lockdown.

China has defeated the epidemic in Wuhan. A few cases leaked and the effects now move into our societies. But our dear leaders are throwing the Chinese victory out of the window by not replicating early and decisively what the Chinese did. Many of us will have to pay for this.

Communists will shut down a city to prevent a deadly epidemic from going exponential. Our neo-liberal leaders only started to care when the Dow Jones went down. Don't expect them to call for a shutdown as that will cost their donor's some money. As mostly elderly people will die they are probably calculating how much money the pension funds will save.

Not shutting everything down guarantees that our health care systems will get overwhelmed. This will increase the death rate of the disease.

Tomas Pueyo as well as Yascha Munck mention the 1918 influenza pandemic and point out how much difference a shutdown made at that time:

As the disease was spreading, Wilmer Krusen, Philadelphia’s health commissioner, allowed a huge parade to take place on September 28; some 200,000 people marched. In the following days and weeks, the bodies piled up in the city’s morgues. By the end of the season, 12,000 residents had died.

In St. Louis, a public-health commissioner named Max Starkloff decided to shut the city down. Ignoring the objections of influential businessmen, he closed the city’s schools, bars, cinemas, and sporting events. Thanks to his bold and unpopular actions, the per capita fatality rate in St. Louis was half that of Philadelphia. (In total, roughly 1,700 people died from influenza in St Louis.)

Good luck to all of us.

---
Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the issue:

Posted by b on March 11, 2020 at 16:19 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Alt media has become just another psyop arm of the controllers, walking arm and arm with MSM on the important operations. Oh they will give you a dash of truth on certain issues which are of little importance - relatively speaking, but thats just to gain credibility on the larger projects. So B supports the global warming fraud, covid fraud and plays up the Trump-Deep State fraud (all of which are linked by the same players seeking total global control over individuals) while sprinkling a dash of truth in the Middle East, skripal and Boeing

People really need to start thinking for themselves, at least those who are not bots or hired astroturfers. I dont know if more than a handful of people know how to do so though. Most seem to just pick a belief they like backed up only by their faith on who is preaching it.

For the few who can think, as always, follow the money and power. Cui bono? Its getting harder though, google and social media is disappearing old stuff rapidly and controlling new information.

Posted by: Pft | Mar 11 2020 21:35 utc | 101

H.Schmatz @97--

It's no different from the Republicans in the US Senate: Emergency Sick Leave Bill blocked from vote by Senate Republicans--Profit over People yet again.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 11 2020 21:37 utc | 102

There may well be some idea about letting the "old and feeble" dying. But, and it is a big but - there are now supposed to be two versions, "L" and "S". The L is more common and the S is more lethal (except I have also read the complete opposite - so take your choice). There have also been something like 29 mutations (Chinese figures)
So how can you make one "vaccine" for so many variables? You can't.
Coronavirus is presumably still mutating.
-------
The reaction of the USAxis officials seems to be based on the probability that they already have a vaccine - all they have to do is wait to exterminate the useless part of the population. (ie a masssive "FF operation" as was 9/11). And then pose as "saviours" for the rest.
This fits with (my own) opinion that this was a military bioweapon to start with. According to the FT, the first people to be treated would be the military and then the Politicians. (Article today questioning the "order" in which people would be treated if there were not enough facilities for all). If the population realised that they were being deliberately aimed at, then some sort of reaction would be called for.

In any case IF the Chinese have come to the same conclusion, they will eventually be forced to designate the culprits and fire back. (There are 5 labs in the Us and they have 17 others placed in other countries. BUT the UK, France Israel, Russia etc all have their own little groups trying to find the best way to exterminate humanity, so there are plenty of choices).

As b says - you are on your own so just cut out contacts as much as possible. Eat well. Just keep smiling as the best protection is simply not to panic but react sensibly.

:::::
(Further information needed ?; intraveinous vitamin C injections will NOT cure Coronavirus but could help your own immunity, by multiplying white blood cells. "ordinary" vitamin C cannot be absorbed in big enough doses without giving you reason to use rolls of toilet paper. (ie only 12-15% of each dose) Some Americans are "brewing" their own. Worth watching?

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 11 2020 21:38 utc | 103

>The media is in the midst of a complete 100% departure from
>reality with this one.

Say that to the families of dead health care workers cut down in their prime.

I suspect that Dear Leaders think they are safe because they all have personal physicians on call. It probably never occurs to them that personal physicians are completely dependent on hospitals and diagnostic labs and pharmacies.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 11 2020 21:38 utc | 104

Posted by: Joetv | Mar 11 2020 21:17 utc | 89

Go about your business takes no place here, nor it has alleged pusilanimity.

I find hard to consider pusilanime any working person living in the US, where they are just left at their own peril since craddle to grave.

There is nothing to do with going about your business since that way a lot of people will die.

The people is not that they depend on their government for nothing, the least in the US, but it is not in the hands of the people to order mandatory quarantine, or organizing an adequate supply of food and hygiene articles and extraordinary requirements of health care.

The people is not demanding anything from any government so far, but they may be doing it, and in the worst form, once the whole disorganization is evident, to their disgrace, since the people who has unleashed all this what they are looking for, at least in the US, is for the people to rise to then shut off elections the far-right was anyway to lose.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 11 2020 21:39 utc | 105

From the cnn live
"Italy will close all restaurants, bars and shops across the country in an effort to curb the spread of coronavirus, Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte announced on Wednesday.

Only pharmacies and supermarkets will be allowed to remain open, Conte added.

Restaurants will be allowed to be operational for food deliveries, but companies will be required to implement remote working for all jobs, except those that require physical presence, Conte added."

This sounds that they are getting advice from the Chinese and stopped waiting for the EU 'recommendations'. Next step is that the Italian gov need to offer some help to these restaurants so that the people working there and those doing the deliveries get correctly paid and that they and what they carry is clean.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 11 2020 21:44 utc | 106

@83
"...courage or fortitude in the face of diversity (hard times)...If this was a deer heard".

Hey bud.
You got great communicative skills, with your bein' able to talk to Bambi.
And, facing diversity like Clark Kent.
Yeah.
Hey folks, it's *adversity* and *herd* @83 wanted to say, I believe.
But, what do I know bein' an old fart & soon senile.

I like bein' old.
Best part about it is the Wisdom & Insight.
X-

Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 11 2020 21:46 utc | 107

It is not correct that CV will only kill people who get it, it will kill lots of people who need "health care" but cannot get help, or get botched help, because the system is swamped; not to mention the Medical personnel who will die doing their jobs.

The economic consequences are going to kill lots of people too.

I expect quite a few of our political class to get hammered, the more "cosmopolitan" the more risk.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 11 2020 21:51 utc | 108

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 11 2020 20:33 utc | 70
Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 11 2020 19:49 utc | 61

I'm a real Chinese and sincerely NO hard feeling please....

Do you really expect the White man for help from the coolie, laborers, snake, rats, dogs, bats.... eater for help, they steal, cheats etc. They even started Wuhan Coranavirus according to Fox News host Jesse Watters and Americans Secretary of State Pompeo... hinting as "Wuhan Coranavirus"..China to apologize for the coronavirus, and claimed the virus originated in China

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wA2aMdCGZM

If I could articulate 1/2 good. I will tell you stories beside, my mom cried after my dad forbid her send small dried food packages to her only surviving the brother in China in the 50s...it's still painful after so many years. We have no surviving relatives in China. My ancestor home was Huanggang, Hubei. Remember China suffers a century of humiliation. I'm so proud China sends a team of experts and materials to Italy, and Iraq, Iran, and more

Posted by: JC | Mar 11 2020 21:52 utc | 109

Posted by: Mina | Mar 11 2020 21:25 utc | 95

I hold Alitalia amongst the best memories of my travels, especially those made when I was younger, when I always chose them for the astonishing quality/price relation. It had many excellent connections with Africa nad the ME.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 11 2020 21:55 utc | 110

Oh well.....trump says, the shitty house says, peddler of alternative facts says...
who knows what the fuck they are saying, nothing they say has any meaning, and facts are for suckers.
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/6/21168038/trump-on-entitlements-fox-news-town-hall

well i guess you could say that by letting many many people - especially these pesky older folks that want their retirement funds that they paid for - die, then hey he is 'doing social security' right? Without vaseline, without a condom - barebacking as he is wont to do - and certainly without a red ribbon to cut. He is just doing it. And don't the dear american voter who voted for this heap of shit loving it.

There you go, Green voter, Libertarian voter, heap of shit voter, you wanted change......you got it.

Posted by: Sabine | Mar 11 2020 21:56 utc | 111

To 99

I say again the thing that irritates me is the abject lack of fortitude or courage. We are faced with a situation where some of us are going to to die. Having been in that situation (Marine Corps) I am totally appalled by the lack of courage and fortitude. Some of us are going to die. Ok now what. Let's panic and try and hide? If we do that then more of us die. Get a grip. Act like a human being. Before 1950 there was no thought of curing bacterial disease let alone viral disease. People lived with adversity and unpredictable death. Polio? Where's the courage that we displayed as a species for the last 10,000 years?

Posted by: Paul Bogdanich | Mar 11 2020 21:58 utc | 112

==> karlof1 |@ 78

New Zealand is actually not too bad.
I returned from China, missing by 4 hours compulsory incarceration in HongKong
in a building subsequently torched by NIMBY protesters.
The incoming NZ checks were casual to a point -"do you have a cough" No
"Do you have a temperature" No...."OK on your way"
700 essentially unchecked passengers that day
So I wrote some fairly blistering letters to GPs and Health boards,
along with a lot of other unimpressed travelers, and things have tightened up
since then.
There is a coordinated media pipeline (daily Medical and Political people together)
basically mandating social isolating, detailing the PPE the NZG have already stockpiled
(eg 9 million N95s ) and the plan for triaging the infections. They explain that is to avoid
a sharp peak on the health system that would overload it.
There are currently 95 isolation rooms in NZ, more are being prepared.
Paracetamol is rationed; ordinary flu vaccination is strongly recommended...

My own observation is that our health system is already stretched..
Wouldn't take much to overload it....

But to my american colleagues who have poured scorn on this countries
"pinko socialism" I reply "lets watch when your country places its faith
on the market place fairies that live at the bottom of the garden"

More as it unfolds
David K

Posted by: David K | Mar 11 2020 22:04 utc | 113

Paul B @ 83; Piotr Berman @ 35

in societies, ex the West, elderly persons are honoured, protected, held in high esteem - without them you would not be a twinkle here.

I hope you do not have any underlying conditions such as Hypertension, Diabetes, Asthma, Cystic Fibrosis; that you are a non-smoker sand your immune system is at optimal because immune deficiency, attributed to low GSH, is a disease waiting to happen...viruses, cancer, HIV, neuro-degenerative diseases, one of the latter (nuero-degen category) of which you both displayed.

But see this, you had better be aware the under 40s and children have been COVID-19 infected. This morning’s lead -


[.] "A new analysis by a team of Canadian and international researchers suggests that the novel coronavirus can be transmitted by infected individuals before symptoms develop – a possibility that could explain why the spread of the epidemic has proved so difficult to contain after it first appears in a new location.[.] “It means we would not be able to stop all the transmission events by focusing on cases who have already developed symptoms.” [.] -GlobeandMail.ca

In Toronto, Canada the search is on for 25,000 attendees of a mining conference because one person tested positive.

And take a read here: Cancel Everything
by Yascha Mounk, Associate Professor, Johns Hopkins University

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 11 2020 22:06 utc | 114

Paul Bogdanich @98--

Thanks for providing the reasons behind your reasoning. It's a longstanding fact that US society has a very difficult time dealing with death to the point now where it's (death) almost completely invisible. In its own lurid way, death's even become a commodity. Seems we've both faced death--you as a Marine, me as a civilian well after my service--and that's colored how we view the living of life. Some people go; some people get taken by death, the latter presumably before their time, and thus the invention of Heaven--the Better Place. Death doesn't bother the dead, only the living. That's why I look at this crisis as a moral play and test of societal and governmental resolve to insure/protect their #1 asset, which is their human capital--no matter their age and productive capability.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 11 2020 22:09 utc | 115

So Americans, British and many other country’s recently voted for far right political leaders.
Are they sorry yet ?
Humans have an evolutionary reason for living a long time. To prevent younger humans make the same mistakes that we’re made before.
This is a Bio weapon, until we acknowledge that, we are putting our lives in the control of psycpaths !
They have done nothing to stop the spread. In fact they have deliberately helped the spread.
They have advised against stockpiling, deliberately withheld supply’s creating the impression of panic buying.
Now they are conditioning the public to acept there fate !
Next will come the marital law.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 11 2020 22:11 utc | 116

==> Paul Bogdanich @ 98

"I served in Alpha Company 1st Battalion 5th Marines. Look it up.
Once you accept the fact that there is no hope and you are going to die, the headaches go away"
====================
Everything that has a Begining also has an End
Make your peace with this and all will be well..
......The Buddah

Posted by: David K | Mar 11 2020 22:13 utc | 117

I should have clarified, I'm an American living in the United States. That said, it bothers me. The absolute lack of any detectable level of courage or fortitude in the face of diversity (hard times) is just stunning. Old people die. Everyone dies over time. Viruses like the flu or SARS, or COVID-19 accelerate that process from time to time. It's just what viruses do. There is no cure for either death or viruses. If you want the biblical "Ye shall surely die."
- @ Posted by: Paul Bogdanich | Mar 11 2020 21:09 utc | 83

That's true - but it's boring, don't you think?

Life has much more meaning is much more exciting when you're solving concrete problems just to see how far humanity can go.

Posted by: vk | Mar 11 2020 22:14 utc | 118

if you don't have much time,
still watch that, 1'-15' and then 35'-45'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw

Posted by: Mina | Mar 11 2020 22:16 utc | 119

You've got a good screen name Pft because that's the sound I make anytime you vomit up some crap here.

Posted by: information_agent | Mar 11 2020 22:32 utc | 120

@ Paul B 111

[.]"Before 1950 there was no thought of curing bacterial disease let alone viral disease. People lived with adversity and unpredictable death. Polio?" [.]

So you are an ex-Marine. Brave one. Get a grip. See how much you know!!!


Vaccines for Viral diseases
PubMed ncbi Nih.gov LINK

Abstract

Vaccines against infectious diseases have been available since the 1800s, when an immunization strategy against smallpox developed by Jenner gained wide acceptance [.]

Yellow fever is a hemorrhagic virus endemic to tropical areas of South America and Africa. An effective vaccine for this virus has existed since 1937, and it is used widely in endemic areas of South America, and to a lesser extent in Africa. This vaccine is recommended once every 10 years for people who are traveling to endemic areas. Advances in immunology have led to a greater understanding of immune system function in viral diseases. Progress in genetics

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 11 2020 22:33 utc | 121

@Posted by: JC | Mar 11 2020 21:52 utc | 108

You should be proud not only of the experts and the help your motherland is sending everywhere where they are wellcomed, but of your whole population and leaders. The class, unity, steadfastness and effectivity with which you have faced this epidemic will be recorded in our memeories ( if we survive ) and not only, but I am very sure it is recorded in the annals of the WHO...( unless a fascist order comes anytime which deletes it all ).

I still have not visited your country, which was thinking of, along with Vietnam, lately..A pity this happened just now...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 11 2020 22:36 utc | 122

David K @112--

Thanks for your reply and description of the situation there! Yes, there are differing degrees that differentiate national moral failings from each other, and New Zealand certainly sits atop higher moral ground well away from the abyssal depths where we within the Outlaw US Empire lay on some important issues.

Overall, the world's experiencing a very deep moral crisis mostly made in the USA which relentlessly pushes the ideology responsible for the moral crisis. IMO, that crisis greatly outweighs the Pandemic crisis.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 11 2020 22:36 utc | 123

It seems that what Paul Bogdanich calls courage and fortitude, some others might call resignation, even fatalism or God's will. Others might just call the same attitude "giving up".

Posted by: Jen | Mar 11 2020 22:37 utc | 124

Posted by: David K | Mar 11 2020 22:04 utc | 112

the last nine year of under funding the NZ healthcare system (thanks Key, Blinglish, and Woodhouse, Benefits and other assorted fuckwits), non of which has even been remotely touched by anything the current Labour/Green/NZFirst coalition could come up with surely have left the Health System in tatters.
Not enough doctors, nurses, beds, heck we don't even have enough hospital beds as it is now.
I guess its time to vote for more tax cuts as Soimon says.

Posted by: Sabine | Mar 11 2020 22:37 utc | 125

@20 Remember those boxes of staples that were to be given out to U.S. EBT recipients, as part of their aid, that progressives threw a hissy fit about? It would be nice to have a billion of those right now.

Posted by: Fly | Mar 11 2020 22:38 utc | 126

My household-tips:
Risk: Age
I am an older man and somewhere I read why SARS-Cov-2 is more dangerous for old people: After several day the body produces antibodies, which are programmed to detect the varmint and attach to it. Then a white blood cell (phagocyte / macrophage) "eats" this marked varmint. Unlike young, old people have (without knowing) much more inner inflammations. Inflammations - like fever - are not caused by the varmint but by our own body as a mean of defence (see Wikipedia). When our body - after several days - starts to produce antibodies (programmed for SARS-Cov-2) in masses those cells in our blood that cause and regulate inflammations get 'confused' by this flood of antibodies and then cause inflammations without reason. This weakens the immune-system of old people dramatically.
This is why - as soon as I have 'my' Covid-19 - I will take my antiseptic lozenge against sore throat (in my case "Neo-Angin" - instead of sucking them I swallow them directly). This fights bacteria and thus inflammations.

Risk: Hypertension ( high blood pressure)
The graphs in my comment above (88) are from a German language article ( https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Zahlen-bitte-3-4-Coronavirus-Fallsterblichkeit-False-Number-4679338.html?seite=all ). There I read that 70 % of US citizens have hypertension while in Japan it's only 16 % and in China - of those who were confirmed Covid-19- patients - it's only 12.8 %.
I believe that it is lecithin (soy, fish) that East-Asians protect from hypertension.
As a heavy smoker I got a "smoker-leg" some years ago. I got successfully rid of it with lecithin, because I read that lecithin dissolves 'bad fats'. These 'bad fats' can't be put into the liver, because unlike 'good fats' they would destroy the liver. And thus our blood puts the 'bad fats' into the walls of our arteries, which then swell like balloons. Lecithin dissolves/cracks these 'bad fats' so that they now can be eliminated by the liver.
As not only smoking produces 'bad fats' (too long molecules?) lecithin in general will make the blood vessels fit again and by this certainly lower blood-pressure.

Posted by: Joerg | Mar 11 2020 22:40 utc | 127

The areas under each of the two curves B provided more or less represent the total number of cases.

I understand that the data are not entirely objective, much less accurate, but both curves seem to enclose approximately the same areas. If that is the case, then the impact on society would be the criterion for choosing one curve over the other, rather than the number of cases, which by argument would be the same.

Of course, B's policy argument is based largely on the shapes and data in these curves, which may be all we have at the moment.

Posted by: Chopin | Mar 11 2020 22:40 utc | 128

First of all thank you to nemisis calling for finding & providing the links to the journal publications of whooping cough etc prophylactic. I am traveling which is why I was late to read/find the post & have not properly read the articles. I appreciate it since digging out articles can be time consuming.

Posted by: A User | Mar 11 2020 22:44 utc | 129

Second of all yesterday I seem to remember finding a post at MoA which detailed wikipedia changing the mortality rate of spanish flu.The post included wayback links which showed up the deceit. I'm staying with a relative who is a recently retired journo defending his professi8on & want to show him the piece as an example of exactly how perfidious what is now called 'the communications industry' has become. I cannot find that post so if anyone could point me to it I would appreciate that.

Posted by: A User | Mar 11 2020 22:50 utc | 130

Posted by: Paul Bogdanich | Mar 11 2020 21:58 utc | 111

Why are we to have the courage and fortitude of a Marine to die, out of negligence by our governments who could do way much better and on time?

Man, ccould you understand this: we are no herd, no deers, no marines.Period.

I find no particular merit in having the "courage and fortitude" to go dying or getting crippled in the terrorist wars unleashed on mostly defensless foreign countries to be robbed from their resources by your country on behalf of some billionaires comfortably living in the US and Israel out of "cheating, lying and stealing" us all, sorry.

The US government is simply doing nothing for their citizens, and, moreover, takes importance from the issue, with which they favour that more people than necessary will die. That you come here recommending the people to die, and moreover that they do it with "courage and fortitude", while they could be saved in huge ammounts, is shameful hooliganism, and as I have already said, only a well payed nazi would talk in that way.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 11 2020 22:56 utc | 131

Plan for the next 3 months, stock up with as much food ect ect as you can.
Decide who you will be spending that time with and more importantly who you will not. Remember people could be contagious with out showing symptoms! The people who are now refusing to take this seriously will be the carriers, having contact with them will be your downfall ! Make that clear to them.
Treat this as a plague and learn from that history.
Most importantly take your money out of the bank NOW while you can.
As far as the following 3 months go, I recommend a Cristal ball.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 11 2020 22:58 utc | 132

Italy's economy will be crushed, but the bankers will still get their money. In fact, it's another opportunity to impose further 'austerity' on Italy (as neoliberal economics abhors spending on government services), and to force Italy to take out more loans from Germany and France.

Another big bonus is that the virus will primarily kill old people, which means that European governments can pay out less retirement pensions and welfare benefits in the future. Neoliberal economics is the big winner here.

Posted by: occupatio | Mar 11 2020 23:01 utc | 133

@ Posted by: A User | Mar 11 2020 22:50 utc | 129

It's in the Off-Guardian:

Wikipedia Slashes Spanish Flu Death Rate: From 20% to 2% is a quite a drop. What’s going on?

Posted by: vk | Mar 11 2020 23:02 utc | 134

Paul Bogdanich@111

America society is not organized to deal with crisis on its own soil at a community based level due to globalization and the warfare economy that you are well aware of.

First, the closing down of schools is a good example as the increase in poverty among the 99% has resulted in schools having to take on providing food to a large segment of children. It is even worse for the children who are homeless in America while millions of dollars a day go to overseas wars. In New York City along there are about 110,000 homeless children. America has no means to deliver such food aid to children except through school attendance! Even worse is that most of this food is ultraprocessed junk and food like substances as required by the corporate food industry.

Second, most workers must continue to show up even if sick or they face going bankrupt and are already deep in debt to the banks. This creates another petri dish for transmission of the virus which is otherwise going to happen due to a lack of food supplies, except in Mormon and similar communities.

Third, About half of Americans have one or more serious medical conditions, most of which are due to either bad diet (hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.) or drug use (alcohol, tobacco, or hard drugs).

Fourth, Americans are generally sedentary and cocooned indoors leading to vitamin/hormone D3 deficiencies and toxic organics exposure in home products.

Fifth, we have a sick care system in the US that tries to maximize revenue flow to medical corporations through excess drug distribution and other symptom treatments (think snake oil salesmen in the old west). Once again, prevention via better diet is the correct but unprofitable choice. See books such as "food fix" and "The Hacking of the American Mind" for further details.

Sixth, oil people who will die generally have deficient immune systems which make them susceptible to secondary infections and lung inflammation responses. Strategies to improve immune response are not profitable compared to vaccines and thus lots of old people will die.

Seventh, as hospitals rapidly fill up with patient with coronavirus secondary infections anyone with injuries or disease conditions (e,g, gall bladder and appendix infections will have a much higher chance of dying). As some 97% of prescription drugs are imported from China there will be dramatic shortages.

Eighth, even with calling out the national guard, there will be a large increase in crime as America has over million gang members who are generally well organized. Pity those who cannot defend themselves.

Ninth, collapse of the food and other essential services distribution over several months will contribute to violence and perhaps starvation, especially among pets and farm animals.

Tenth, since most political leaders in the US attended the AIPAC and CPAP conferences, where they were exposed to infected individuals, they will have a much higher infection rate, especially since they tend to be old and in bad health. The collapse of government decision makers will lead to local communities having to sink or swim.

You are correct about the lack of courage in Americans. More importantly, response to a crisis is 80% mental Americans generally are unwilling to give up their comfort and conformity mindset.

Do not know why anyone would want to serve in the US military. Seems like you now recognize your mistake.


Posted by: krollchem | Mar 11 2020 23:05 utc | 135

Breaking News: deaths in Italy jumps to more than 800 in 24 hours.

You don't have to be Carl Friedrich Gauss to realize what's going on in the West (hint: it has something to do with insufficient infrastructure, inefficiency, corruption and hidden bodies).

Posted by: vk | Mar 11 2020 23:05 utc | 136

Paul Bogdanich 111

As a marine, I take it you would stand and walk towards enemy trenches as some formations did in WWI. Iguess sneaking around rathe than standing in plain veiw of the enemy would indicate you lacked fortitude or courage.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 11 2020 23:09 utc | 137

As Coronavirus Testing Increases, Some Labs Fear a Shortage of Other Supplies

Well, just buy them, then. You're Americans: buying stuff is basically in your DNA.

Posted by: vk | Mar 11 2020 23:14 utc | 138

"There were theories that the new virus is specific to the oriental race, but Iran and Italy contradict that."

This was based on the virus' affinity for the ACE2 receptor in the lungs. This receptor has a higher prevalence in Asian males. It is also thought to have a higher prevalence in heavy smokers. Iran and Italy are countries where people smoke heavily. In Iran smoking related disease accounts for about 20% of fatalities in males.

Posted by: Yonatan | Mar 11 2020 23:17 utc | 139

Joerg @88
"Then this: The SARS-Cov-2 seems to have spread ftom the USA(!) - not China:"

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/53027.htm

"The U.S. is the World Leader of Bio-Weapons Research, Production, and Use Against Mankind"

"Interestingly, in the past, U.S. universities and NGOs went to China specifically to do illegal biological experimentation, and this was so egregious to Chinese officials, that forcible removal of these people was the result. Harvard University, one of the major players in this scandal, stole the DNA samples of hundreds of thousands of Chinese citizens, left China with those samples, and continued illegal bio-research in the U.S."

The US has also been trying to collect DNA of Russian - and called out by Putin over it.

Posted by: Yonatan | Mar 11 2020 23:31 utc | 140

Exclusive: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations - sources

No reason to doubt Reuters in this one, since the news is prejudicial to the USA.

Posted by: vk | Mar 11 2020 23:33 utc | 141

: Peter AU1 | Mar 11 2020 23:09 utc | 136

Paul's right. You "give up your soul to Heaven and do what you must do, or you will surely die today, and do what you must do is the only way you might have a pleasant surprise tomorrow.". That's how I framed it. Simple version is "I'm dead already, so I will do as I must do."

Getting shot at by people trying to kill you and being unable to leave the locus in quo, is a deeply changing thing. Paul's right.

..............


Meanwhile, Wally an' Mz Wally are Not Goin' Out anywhers a-tall 'cept with a spray bottle of dilute Sodium hypochlorite and gloves, diluted 2-propanol, and all the rest. This is not much of a sacrifice, we mostly totter 'round gardening and tinkering about the very small-holding near the river. Like Trailer T, we hunkered down more or less since about forever...

I think karlofi asked which moral decay was first in US, of the people or of the upper class - more or less I think he posed that question.

I think the assumption behind that question is that it had to be one or the other - ie not from an "external" or third force, or lack of force (for the cathodic always from anodic) I think it was Herodotus who said that the Greeks corrupted the Persians by teaching them Pederasty...
Is the assumption as I see? Is it valid?

I suspect that the moral bankruptcy is the product of Structure interacting with Perception of Circumstance - eg internal propaganda in a terrible feedback loop for starters vis the Ike departure speech and Hudson's recent description in Frontrunning, etc.

Enough. Later.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 11 2020 23:34 utc | 142

In fact, if you think a bit, the whole rotted philosophy of this Bogdanich marine is the same of his trainees, the "moderate rebels", slaughtering people all around the world, including Europe.

For the time I have been reading this blog, quite a year or so, it is the first time a US mercenary ( since this is not a soldier, the US has not fought any defensive war since WWII ) comes here giving advice to civilians of all nationalities on how they should live... and die...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 11 2020 23:40 utc | 143

Re vk@133
Thanks for that vk

Posted by: A User | Mar 11 2020 23:41 utc | 144

Italy to close all non-essential except food stores and pharmacies.

and in the US it begins:

CME to close Chicago trading floor on COVID-19 concerns. U.S. Fed Banks in NY, Boston and San Fran encourage staff to work from home.

Trump will address the nation @ 9:00 PM EDT. Whoever volunteers to watch, give a nudge here on what he has to say, aside from ---- "It's classified."

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 11 2020 23:44 utc | 145

new piece by Pepe Escobar:

"How black swans are shaping planet panic":

http://thesaker.is/how-black-swans-are-shaping-planet-panic/

Posted by: occupatio | Mar 11 2020 23:45 utc | 146

A User @ 129:

Off-Guardian has posted two articles on Freakipedia and The Fraudian changing or using misleading data concerning the case fatality rate for the Spanish flu epidemic in 1918. Each article also has links to sources you can follow, if you want to back up your argument. Good luck!

Posted by: Jen | Mar 11 2020 23:47 utc | 147

Walter
I'm not sure that any here are panicking about coronavirus.
What I make of it to date, a lot of people will die if hospitals are overwhelmed. Paul seems to think nothing more than courage is needed. In that case, why have medicine at all.
He yanks his dick about being a marine, but even militaries use strategies and tactics to minimise risk.
It seems there are a number of things governments can do to minimise the risk. Not doing so is no different to troops marching in line through artillery fire towards machine guns in WWI.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 12 2020 0:05 utc | 148

Paul B @ 83; Piotr Berman @ 35

in societies, ex the West, elderly persons are honoured, protected, held in high esteem - without them you would not be a twinkle here.

------

For myself, I was reporting views that regularly grace the columns of newspapers and serious periodicals. To many oldsters, too few tax paing workers. Concerning my personal views, in my voice I would add:

We will need to make cruel choices.

We can reduce social security, medicare coverage etc.

We can reduce our commitment to be militarily present everywhere, to spy everywhere, to meddle everywhere.

We can remove 80% of the cost of administering healthcare by replacing private insurance, clerks toiling to pad the bills and fight objections from insurers and the government, reduce profit of providers of medicines to, say, no more than double what is reasonable.

We can raise taxes.

Etc.

----

Hard choices. Military men are dashing , billionaires suave (especially the young heirs, the old ones are an acquired taste), oldsters look sort of creepy (I check the mirror so I know). Some have bizarre sense of humor that gets only worse with age.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Mar 12 2020 0:11 utc | 149

Since I'm extremely sedentary and sit behind a computer all day, only going out for groceries at the corner store and on a bus to a further grocery store for my main food run once every 8-10 days, and occasionally downtown for vitamins, I'm fairly "socially distant". I am planning on attending a movie this week, but the movie I intend to see - Bad Boys For Life - has been out for weeks, so there will likely be maybe 5 or 6 people in the theater with me. :-) I have to use a hall toilet and shower, but I wash my hands religiously and use hand sanitizer every time I do and every time I return from going out of the house.

Not much more one can do if one isn't a prepper with a bunker with a year's worth of food and supplies. Besides, the maximum probability of death for someone my age of (in four days) 71 is 8%, presuming I get it. The real death rate is likely less, so maybe 4-5%. Plus I don't have any specific respiratory issues, other than being out of shape (but no longer overweight). I was diabetic, now pre-diabetic since I lost 45 pounds in 2018, reducing my blood sugar from 9 to 5.6.

So I'm not sweating this. My only concern is that if I do get it, it's as bad as that chest mucous issue I had in 2006, described here in a previous post. That was hell and could indeed be life-threatening if it was any worse. Based on what I've read, coronavirus-caused pneumonia is really bad, which is why people end up on respirators.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2020 0:12 utc | 150

: Peter AU1 | Mar 12 2020 0:05 utc | 147 Yes, that's true.

Marines are, 100% obnoxious guys...I had to work with some at the phuckin army gig. I got along with navy and infantry guys really well, but marines, not so much. Actually I thought that Bat Guano's opinion (Strangelove) applied to the marines, but that's something That Must Never Be Said. I did have a marine aunt...yeah, she was. Nice gal. Wrote stories...

Still, when you're in the circumstance, you do as must. In this Paul's right...they call it being brave or courageous...that's bs, it's what you have to do, nothing more. That's what I had in mind - when you can do nothing else, stand (or dig in)... it's the only thing...after al.

I agree wholeheartedly that Things of Value Can Be Done Now

Posted by: Walter | Mar 12 2020 0:14 utc | 151

Piece on Wikipedia lying about the mortality from Spanish Flu is at off-guardian.org.

Posted by: lysine | Mar 12 2020 0:16 utc | 152

Western governments' finances are threatened by unfunded pension liabilities. Of course TPTB want an illness that mainly kills old people to spread throughout the population.

It's true that quite a few of TPTB themselves might catch it, but then they can afford to self-isolate and buy the best healthcare treatment should they happen to be unfortunate enough to contract the disease.

What's more, if the disease does spread throughout the West, it's likely to re-infect the Chinese. A twofer, as far as our psychopathic leaders are concerned.

Posted by: BJ | Mar 12 2020 0:18 utc | 153

@128 a user

You are very welcome. Safe travels!

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Mar 12 2020 0:22 utc | 154

There is no cure for either death or viruses. If you want the biblical "Ye shall surely die."

Posted by: Paul Bogdanich | Mar 11 2020 21:09 utc | 83

Death is surely a problem, but viruses are treatable more often than not. For example, reliable medications for herpes and HIV. Flu and colds like corona virus can be treated symptomatically until they go away. Works most of the time, the problem arises that there may be a shortage of therapeutic devices, medicines and caregivers. So various measures can make a difference.

Lastly, as a society, we do not live on a verge of survival. Loosing some part of annual national income to save lives is affordable. Testing is a way to improve cost efficiency of quarantines and similar measures.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Mar 12 2020 0:23 utc | 155

Thanks to b for the manly grappling with this world he engages in day to day in his Dickensian attic garret and for his democratic modus operandi that allows us all to join him in this fierce contest with reality.

Critics like to skewer Paul Ehrlich and his Malthusian prognostications and say: Hey Ehrlich, where's the bomb? Well friends, the consequences of overpopulation are not so dramatic, but as Hannah Arendt characterized evil, they tend to be banal. Banal like a quarantine. Banal like pandemic victims gasping for breath in overwhelmed hospital facilities.

The zeitgeist of our time is the anticipation of social catastrophe that permeates the subtext of every thoughtful person who cares to think about the human condition. It's a daunting task, a Big Picture undertaking, from which Everyman slinks away with false modesty. What he wants to do is disavow any responsibility. He's not actually modest. He's incompetent. Like the idiot who got himself elected president of this country.

Our Way Of Life is not sustainable. George HW Bush who fathered a notoriously incompetent son that followed in his footsteps, once proclaimed that our way of life is not negotiable. We're going to kick butt and take names and defend OWOL with the last drop of blood of the peasants who wave the stars and stripes of oligarchy. They receive free healthcare for life, veterans discounts at the larger retailers and are regularly thanked for their service by all and sundry.

The Club of Rome was right on. The idiot in the White House is dead wrong. The followers of Ayn Rand and the Koch Brothers will be devoured by the coronavirus as punishment for their anti-social philosophies. The liberals will also be devoured. Overpopulation is corrected in just such a manner, a blind sort of justice that is not actually justice, but a "correction", like a stock market correction.

Can you feel it in your bones? Yes you can, but you just won't admit it. You have become comfortably numb or uncomfortably numb, doesn't matter. The Zeitgeist is going to transform us all. We will become socialized. We will weep for the passage of the earth's magnificent creatures, of which we are just one species. We will learn the limits to growth. We will learn that we do change the climate with our industrial flatulence. We will learn how to live right or we will die.

Posted by: jadan | Mar 12 2020 0:26 utc | 156

Helpful to know. Just published, so be guided.

Tests show new [COVID-19] virus lives on some surfaces for up to 3 days


LINK
The new coronavirus can live in the air for several hours and on some surfaces for as long as two to three days, tests by U.S. government and other scientists have found.

Their work, published Wednesday, doesn't prove that anyone has been infected through breathing it from the air or by touching contaminated surfaces, researchers stress.

"We're not by any way saying there is aerosolized transmission of the virus,” but this work shows that the virus stays viable for long periods in those conditions, so it's theoretically possible, said study leader Neeltje van Doremalen at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.[.]

For this study, researchers used a nebulizer device to put samples of the new virus into the air, imitating what might happen if an infected person coughed or made the virus airborne some other way.

They found that viable virus could be detected up to three hours later in the air, up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel.


Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 12 2020 0:27 utc | 157

No reason to doubt Reuters in this one, since the news is prejudicial to the USA.

Posted by: vk | Mar 11 2020 23:33 utc | 140

Nope. Unfortunately, the 'news' (except for Fox 'News') in the US has long been enlisted in an anti-Trump war that routinely ignores facts and evidence and loves anonymous sources. Most important examples are the various Russia and Ukraine hoaxes. So, trust b, cross-check everything else, use your 'follow the money' common sense, and look at publications' track records on the multiple recent anti-Trump hoaxes. You'll find that Reuters like all Western mainstream sources is a 'fail' ...

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 12 2020 0:31 utc | 158

@ Posted by: fairleft | Mar 12 2020 0:31 utc | 157

It would make sense for Trump to try to classify COVID-19 in USA. It fits with his early tweets about. It fits with the USG's reaction until yesterday. It fits with the dr. Chu's story in this blog post. It also fits with Trump's mentality: as a bourgeois, he likes to take risks: he bet the COVID-19 wouldn't be that a great deal (and lost the bet).

Posted by: vk | Mar 12 2020 0:39 utc | 159

Incredibly, the US response to its own inept handling of the virus is to blame China for not responding quickly enough!
https://www.rt.com/usa/482866-blame-china-coronavirus-response-lacking/

Posted by: Othello | Mar 12 2020 1:02 utc | 160

The Pandemic is a problem the market cannot solve; therefore, it's a Market Failure. The inability and unwillingness to respond to the crisis because there's little to nothing related to basic Civil Defense Systems in place is a Moral Failure of Government AND the Moral Failure of Society which is supposed to ensure the government works first and foremost for the people and not for profit making entities as is the case within the Outlaw US Empire. However, it could be argued that Society was manipulated into working against its best interests by a small group of very rich psychopaths who captured the federal government and the means to affect change on that government via the political process. What we're seeing in the 2020 election is a battle between those who now understand what's been done to Society and those who are still under the manipulators's control, continuing to swallow their lies while all around them is proof of their being lied to.

The admitted US Marine here earlier swore an oath to uphold and defend the US Constitution. He failed in his oath likely because he didn't know what he was to defend. And in that, he's still clearly confused. I wrote earlier on the open thread that Trump's actions were abetting the ability of the disease to kill by making it harder to fight it. That's as factually true as the stain on Monica Lewinsky's dress. But the first act is treasonous while the second's benign in that regard.

Walter asks Which Moral Failure came first--the elite's or society's. IMO, it's easier to prove the elite's was first, but society's was right on their tail. And those twin failures have been in place since the USA's independence. But the starkness of those twin failings IMO has never been more visible than now, while the Movement to rectify them is stronger than ever. When the overall stakes are examined, if COVID-19 is a bioweapon, it was aimed at the US polity more than at China's, for the most direct threat to the 1% exists within the Outlaw US Empire, not elsewhere.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12 2020 1:02 utc | 161

Walter
I hadn't read the comment at 98 so now I see Pauls comment is directed at American people.
I haven't seen any panic on these coronavirus threads - not that I have been reading all of them - but when my wife was shopping the other day all the crap paper was sold out in the two supermarkets in town so I guess it must be loosening a few sphincter muscles over here too.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 12 2020 1:31 utc | 162

@24 Piotr Berman

Gilead is Don Rumsfeld. That should make the situation plainer.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 12 2020 1:59 utc | 163

@ Othello | Mar 12 2020 1:02 utc | 160

" . . .US response to its own inept handling of the virus is to blame China for not responding quickly enough!"

And Trump just repeated it in his 10 minute speech, filled to the brim with one lie after another, after another . . .

Posted by: AntiSpin | Mar 12 2020 2:00 utc | 164

Thanks you guys. The source of moral failure is something Wally thinks about. Opinions are tentative about it. In the example however I would think that the moral failure is circumstantial due to what Kennan might have said - our internal contradictions. The feedback loop(s) I had in mind Hollywood and a vast delusion, a universal learned suspension of disbelief...would deconstruct value, morality...for starters, one of several (?)... I think of Burroughs. I think we tend to agree. And thanks for the reply.

Peter, 'round here nobody seems to notice, but the store shelves are a bit sparse. My wife cancelled her writer's meeting. I declined to go a-ridin' with some neighbors. But nothing at all in the nature of panic. It's a pity, because the weather is absolutely beautiful.

Back when I bought into the big con I was a boyscout...and the be prepared stuff stuck. So we'll stay home for a month. No big deal. Just boyscout caution. We'll see how things look over Time.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 12 2020 2:00 utc | 165

reading 166 comments is always interesting.. thanks for the commentary and to our host b for allowing this site to blossom... diversity is good...

regarding Paul Bogdanich's comments... seems to me many people missed or misunderstood what he was saying.. maybe i missed some of it too, but i agreed with the basic thrust of his comments as i understood them..

as i see it neoliberalism / capitalism is not designed to deal with something like this as quickly as a more social / communist model.. hopefully the west will respond and figure out how do deal with this soon, but the short term view isn't promising, especially if my read on how the usa is handling it is correct.. too little too late is what it looks like to me..

i tend to see it like @ 13 casey quote here "i would wager that your average neocon is just fine with a bug that kills lots of old people, as long as they don't end up as one of the dead." that and the typical wall st money-monger as i see it..

nothing much to add.. the link to joe rogans interview from yesterday - i shared yesterday on the previous thread... some might find it worth watching - the first part anyway...

Posted by: james | Mar 12 2020 2:25 utc | 166

Trump blaming China is disgusting and weong. That said, China really dropped the ball in December and much of January. Academics and medical people are risking their careers in China to point this out. Socialism without real democracy and independent media ... has problems.

In answer to those who say "hindsight is 20/20," Taiwan apparently has done an excellent job responding to the coronavirus, taking measures well before China got its act together. A biased source, but still the facts are overwhelming: What the rest of the world can learn from Taiwan's success containing coronavirus

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 12 2020 2:51 utc | 167

lol at Paul Bodgan , if you think stating your military credential on MoA will net you “thank you for your service” and command respect from civvies here , you are on different forum here..

It is a sign of your own mindset that you boast about military service as if it bring credence to your disgusting posts.

most likely you are not really a military veteran , especially with how you stated it “look it up” as if it is a badge of honor that give you bragging rights..

what a sad sad delusional person you are

Posted by: milomilo | Mar 12 2020 3:25 utc | 168

People say people who voted for Far-right leaders would suffer from this?

In fact, it is the "far right" authoritarian countries who are handing this well (China, Iran, UK, South Korea, Central and Eastern Europe, Russia), while the liberal world order is panicking because they must keep their borders open and their economy going. Italian will be voting for Salvini to leave the EU after this disaster.

US seems to be the exception since their far-right just means super liberal.

Posted by: Smith | Mar 12 2020 3:39 utc | 169

We can deduce that the leaders of the US and other nations have decided to let this disease spread. We don't know why - we can speculate on tbe reasons. But we do know they won't let a good crisis go to waste. We have to place the blame now.

Posted by: BB | Mar 12 2020 3:42 utc | 170

Nostradamus' 9/11 Quatrain:

In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures,
The great leader will succumb,
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.

Nostradamus' CVD-19 Quatrain:

The great plague of the maritime city,
Will not cease until there be avenged the death,
Of the just blood, condemned for a price without crime,
Of the great lady outraged by pretense.

Posted by: blues | Mar 12 2020 4:02 utc | 171

Today the count of presumptive COVID-19 cases in Oregon grew by 6, from 15 to 21, a 40% jump and mostly community spread.

Posted by: Trisha | Mar 12 2020 5:09 utc | 172

So this breaking news is very ironic. An NBA player with Utah Jazz who interviewed with the press on Monday, and made a joke about Coronavirus by touching all the reporters microphones and recorders on the press table, like there's really no problem, tested positive on Wednesday for the virus and now the NBA season is suspended. Guess the joke was on him.

nba coronavirus

Infallible stupidity.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 12 2020 5:54 utc | 173

Paul Bogdanich 111

"I say again the thing that irritates me is the abject lack of fortitude or courage."

That's what I always said about the "war on terror", with its Patriot Act, TSA pervert regime, surveillance state, the rising lawless police state...Same for the "war on crime", "war on drugs", helicopter parenting...

But what do any of your subsequent comments have to do with your initial outrage that children might have a brief interruption in their corporate cog indoctrination?

Needless to say the very idea that "the economy" needs to be "competitive", and that children need to be subjected to mass mind molestation to keep this neoliberal paradigm going, is a far worse example of total cowardice and "lack of fortitude or courage" than anything being contemplated with regard to the virus.

It's ironic, given how the Chinese have been so grossly scapegoated so far, that here all of humanity has a great example of the saying always attributed to the Chinese, "a crisis is also an opportunity." Measures against this so-far very mild pandemic already prove in principle that neoliberal globalization is not necessary and can be dismantled permanently without the sky falling. Why is there so little thought so far about seizing this opportunity? People ought to be organizing, not for any stupid participation in the Democrat circus, but to oppose a return to Business as Usual when the dust settles from Corona's mild shot over the bow, assuming it remains as mild as it's looked so far.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 12 2020 6:02 utc | 174

If one were to consider Peter Bs position, it would seem that knowing who the weakest and most fulnerable in society are, then efforts should be made to concentrate on assisting them foremost.

In Canada, most people 65 yrs and older are retired, hence more easily isolated. Focusing the health care system on them (and other most vulnerable) should be a priority. I gather most of the young and fit will survive with flu like symptoms, and, perhaps, will develop a sort of immunity after the infection plays out.

This would be reasonable given the deliberately undermined health systems that exist in many parts of the neoliberal West. Otherwise and overwhelmed health system will kill many more people including those without the virus.

By the by, Turkey reported its first official case yesterday (Wednesday). Turkish media, however, has focused on individuals protecting themselves from the virus for the past month or so.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Mar 12 2020 6:02 utc | 175

177
Really need to proof read before I post.
Also Krollchem 124:
"since most political leaders in the US attended the AIPAC and CPAP conferences, where they were exposed to infected individuals, they will have a much higher infection rate, especially since they tend to be old and in bad health."

Perhaps, there is an upside to this pandemic afterall.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Mar 12 2020 6:07 utc | 176

I look at this like the hurricane affect on Cuba/Puerto Rico/New Orleans.

In Cuba robust utility infrastructure(electric/water) and planned evacuation caused few lives to be lost.

In Puerto Rico no real evacuation and the utilities were fragile jerry rigged crap which killed thousands and destroyed the economy for years.

In NOLA no preparation, no evacuation and no response killed thousands.

We have the same situation with the corona virus in the USA: no robust medical system, no plan, no leadership, not even testing.
We know what will happen.

Posted by: Jonny Law | Mar 12 2020 6:46 utc | 177

Caitlin Johnstone thinking along the same lines as myself.

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/03/12/the-great-unpatterning-continues-make-sure-you-take-advantage-of-it/

This is a level of disruption that the world hasn’t seen in generations. Normal things that had been a routine part of people’s entire lives are just not there for them now, whether it’s normal socializing, watching the basketball game, or buying toilet paper at the store...

When you’re talking about a species that has been consistently patterned towards its own destruction, though, a disruption of patterns is a good thing. Our ecocidal, warmongering tendencies have brought us to a point that now has us staring down the barrel of our own extinction, and that is where we are surely headed if we continue patterning along the behavioral trajectory that we have been on. Only a drastic change of patterns can change that trajectory. And we are seeing a change of patterns...

All of humanity’s problems are the result of our collective conditioning patterns throughout history. Where there is pattern disruption, there is the opportunity for pattern divergence. Where there is movement, there are gaps. Where there are gaps, there is an opportunity for light to get through.

The clear-eyed rebel’s job, therefore, is to watch for opportunities to help lead us as a collective along a brand new, healthy trajectory. There’s no way to know in advance what those opportunities will look like, because predictability is premised on pattern consistency. But they will appear, from unpredictable and unanticipated new directions. Wherever you see a gap, your job is to pour as much truth and wisdom and health into it as you can possibly muster.

Watch for gaps in the armor of the establishment oppression machine. Watch for gaps in the deluded nature of our society. Watch for gaps in the patterns, and use your wisdom and creativity to assist them in unpatterning as the opportunity presents itself.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 12 2020 7:04 utc | 178

Looks like yankland is going to be hard hit. Best to knock up a diaphragm pump that runs at around 22 rpm and stick the hose in your gob, and an oxy bottle wouldn't go astray.
Seems to be plenty of testing and quarantining going on here in oz to help slow the spread. But if it's allowed to run free like in US, respirators are the issue.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 12 2020 7:04 utc | 179

If ever there was a case where hatred kills it might be this. A deep seated hatred of China's government wand its actions have a long history probably based on yellow peril bigotry. But such prejudice will cause the west not to recognize the achievements of China and its people. They are denigrated but in doing so we'll fail to learn from them. What folly.

Posted by: Doryphore | Mar 12 2020 7:32 utc | 180

I guess I should have put a bit of background to my comment @181.

My wife is very much in the high risk category. I don't seem to catch colds coughs and flues so will see how I go with this one.

Talked to my daughter shortly before my last comment. Private hospital where she works had a meeting on coronavirus. What she told me was pretty much the same as b's take. Ventilators are the problem in the event of uncontrolled outbreak. Oz medical believe US will be hit hard as they are not putting any procedures in place to mitigate or sl0w the spread of the virus. Ventilator apparently is the main treatment plus a squirt of oxygen doesn't go astray.

I guess the moral of the story is, If you are a yank and have loved ones in the high risk category, knocking up a respirator and grabbing a bottle of oxygen is far more useful than buying a truck load of crap paper.

I see in my minds eye many gadgets that would blend into the ambience of a medieval torture chamber :)

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 12 2020 7:36 utc | 181

I wonder if anyone on or concerned with the internet is rethinking the catch phrase, "going viral".

There's certainly a deep underlying affinity between the physical spread of a pandemic pest which arose out of globalization (whether an artificially engineered and delivered bioweapon or not, the Corona pest is a product of globalization and militarism) and the atom herd of social media consumers which comprise a significant portion of the global elite, using that term in a broad sense of Westerners and their apes who have sufficient wealth and time to be internet participants.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 12 2020 7:51 utc | 182

Ok so you’v got your emergency supply’s in, cut all physical contact with any possible source’s of infection (easier said than done) that could be any strangers, nabours, friends or family who have not isolated. Now you need to put together a ‘phone contact tree’ a group of people prepared to look after each other if it gets rough.
Apparently even money can be infected for several days.
It won’t matter if your in a town or country side, your equally likely to have security problems so go ‘contactless trible’
And lastly don’t end up a statistic !!

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 12 2020 7:58 utc | 183

The obvious answer;
to Paul Bogdanich | Mar 11 2020 21:09 utc | 83 and others

Eartha Kitt: "If I can't take it with me when I go, I just aint going to go."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN6lcRExA2g

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 12 2020 8:11 utc | 184

Love all the yank bashers getting in a tizzy with Paul's posts. Wonder how many of the great n good on this site actually live in the dictatorship that is China. Very few I imagine.
Remind me again how this site got it totally wrong with the HK protests. What, you mean the people didn't vote for more authorisation! Was embarrassing to say the least. Only a fool thinks China is out of the woods here......

Posted by: Rob | Mar 12 2020 8:11 utc | 185

I don’t know how South Korea is doing overall in managing the virus , but the more I think about it , the more I think that those drive through test sites were a stroke of genius. People moving along in their own contaminated ( or not) car-cubicles, getting tested with minimal contact with the test site, and then taking their cubicle away with them when they go.

I would be much more comfortable in using such a site in comparison to going into an indoor space where people go when they think that there is a chance that they have been in contact with the virus...

Posted by: Bluemot5 | Mar 12 2020 8:44 utc | 186

Rob
Ever been to the dictatorship that is China. US is somewhat more militaristic than oz, but after visiting China, I find that it is not the chinks that live in a police state. Oz is more a police state than China and yankland is more of a police state than oz. Yankland flag wavers.. yep, you will all be cheering as your oldies go down.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 12 2020 8:46 utc | 187

@Paul Bogdanich #98:

Everyone is going to get this no matter what you do. You can't prevent it from happening.

True. But we can slow down the speed at which it spreads. This reduces the daily numbers of new patients, thus allowing healthcare systems to give more attention to critical patients, thus significantly lowering the amount of deaths. It’s not cowardly, it’s smart.

Posted by: S | Mar 12 2020 9:00 utc | 188

Great move by Trump, EU need this type of leader right now, that actually care about the nations!
Instead EU are left cluesless as always, they have no idea what to do, no effort is done!
The closing of flights from EU by the US should have been done earlier though.

Posted by: Zanon | Mar 12 2020 9:17 utc | 189

@Petri Krohn #96
Linear extrapolation of early trends is utterly unreliable.
A 40% daily increase means the entire United States will be infected by April 17.
Not going to happen.
24 [starting cases on 2/29] *(1.4)exp49 [1.4=40% daily increase, 49 days from 2/29 = April 17).
You couldn't achieve that if the entire federal government and military attempted to do so.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 12 2020 9:18 utc | 190

S
I initially took the posts the wrong way (I think). Think on this.

"All I'm saying is when faced with that situation why don't Americans apply the same resignation to death that they are happy to live with when it's American policy that is killing a million Iraqi,s, or Syrians, or Yemenis or Libyans? It's simply outrageous."

Everyone that has voted for the duopoly in the US 'West" is party to the devastation US has wreaked on the world.

Perhaps coronavirus rather than nuclear armageddon will bring obese yanks to their senses.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 12 2020 9:23 utc | 191

@Paul Bogdanich #68
Your comments are clearly made based on wrong information.
1) nCOV doesn't just kill old people. The 35 year old Chinese doctor Li Wenliang - one of the first who reportd nCOV - died from it. This is including ventilator, antibiotic and antiviral treatments. A 45 year old engineer who attended RSA in SF, started showing symptoms after returning to the East Coast and is now in a medical coma.
2) nCOV - 20% overall of people who catch it, develop serious respiratory problems. If there aren't enough hospital beds/ventilators - the mortality rate goes up a lot - that's what happened in Wuhan
3) Children have an extremely low death rate - but they're prime transmitters. Share it around in school - then give it to their parents/grandparents/teachers.
4) The US has about 3 hospital beds per 1,000 people. Less for rural/poor areas. These beds are not just for nCOV - they're for serious accidents, cancer, diseases, etc. If nCOV spreads far enough, the likelihood that excess capacity gets used up is 100% - at which point lots of preventable deaths will start occurring
5) The cost to the economy and to infected individuals, due to the shitty US health care system (and I mean financially, not medically), would be enormous.

So this isn't just an issue of Americans being wussies. While this is true, nCOV presents a clear and present health and financial danger.
The economic impact is also going to be very significant.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 12 2020 9:28 utc | 192

The abrupt drop in volume of passenger flights due to COVID-19 is ironically causing to air freight rates to skyrocket by some 300%, as 50% of all air cargo is now flown underbelly on passenger flights to maximize per flight $$$.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/air-freight-rates-skyrocket-amid-passenger-flight-cuts--chinese-factory-restarts-12525156

Posted by: JW | Mar 12 2020 9:32 utc | 193

Piotr Berman @ 35, @148
Likklemore @ 113 and others

According to my taste you guys missed bitter irony in the original post of Piotr Berman @35

Posted by: pppp | Mar 12 2020 9:40 utc | 194

This helpful graphic puts Corona Virus in perspective

Posted by: Avid Lurker | Mar 12 2020 9:43 utc | 195

Interesting to see that those far right trump supporters are all ready weaponising this virus right here on this blog.
First they wanted to kill Arabs then then kill resulting victem refuges now they want to kill their own parents !!
Remember this virus is a facist bio weapon, but if you invent gunpowder both sides get hit with the bullet !!
Let’s hit Trump /Johnson and the banks where it hurts draw your money out while you can

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 12 2020 9:50 utc | 196

@Paul Bogdanich
I see you present a typical PvP gamer mentality here, "get used to handling death, haha". Many soldiers/mercenaries/military contractors are gamers as there are lots of free time on these deployments and they present exactly the same type of mentality. Maybe you are not, I am just guessing. If you are not, that would give a lot of insight on what kind of training you received.
The problem with real life is there is no clones, extra lifes, new worlds, server restarts, etc. Death is end of the game.

Soldiers have little choices and they have to obey orders, even as far as to Nurnberg. Civilians do have choices and we can try to wait out the pandemy, in a quite literal sense, either until a vaccine is found or until the virus evolves into weaker form. Suppressing spreading the virus is an evolutionary factor, it puts pressure on it causing better hiding strains to propagate in place of those giving immediate symptoms. "Better hiding" means longer incubation, slower multiplication, less pronounced symptoms, it all leads to increased chance of curing the infection and surviving.
We probably will have to deal with this virus as persistent threat, that I agree, but we can bargain for a milder version of the virus.


----------

Yonatan @139
heavy smokers
Very interesting insight. A good motivation to stop smoking immediately.

Posted by: pppp | Mar 12 2020 10:00 utc | 197

pppp
I have a few health issues but I am not affected by coughs colds or flues.
Smoking does cause ill health in otherwise healthy people, but like any bogeyman, it has become attributed to the scouce of all health evils.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 12 2020 10:21 utc | 198

end times

Posted by: hopeless | Mar 12 2020 10:30 utc | 199

Imagine if someone has a vacine.
Vacine in limited supply.
Imagine a lab develops virus and vacine in parallel.

Posted by: jared | Mar 12 2020 10:33 utc | 200

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