Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 11, 2020

Coronavirus - The Hidden Cases - Why We Must Shut Everything Down And Do It Now

The powers that be in our 'western' societies have decided to do nothing significant against the onslaught the novel coronavirus SARS-Cov-2 is now causing.

There will not even be an attempt to do like China or South Korea which have thrown all resources at stopping the spread of the virus while it was still possible. The 'west' now seem to be beyond that point.

The British Prime Minister Boris Johnson floated the idea to "take it on the chin" -  i.e. to do nothing to soften the blow the epidemic will cause. Chancellor Angela Merkel in Germany told her parliamentary group that 60-70% of all Germans will catch the virus. Most of them will fall ill with the Covid-19 disease the virus causes. At a 1% death rate this means that more than 500.000 Germans will die from it. Merkel did not say how she would try to prevent that. So far little was done by her administration to stop a further public spreading of the disease.

The Donald Trump administration has done its best to prevent an early detection of the outbreak in Washington State and likely also elsewhere:

As luck would have it, Dr. Chu had a way to monitor the region. For months, as part of a research project into the flu, she and a team of researchers had been collecting nasal swabs from residents experiencing symptoms throughout the Puget Sound region.

To repurpose the tests for monitoring the coronavirus, they would need the support of state and federal officials. But nearly everywhere Dr. Chu turned, officials repeatedly rejected the idea, interviews and emails show, even as weeks crawled by and outbreaks emerged in countries outside of China, where the infection began.

By Feb. 25, Dr. Chu and her colleagues could not bear to wait any longer. They began performing coronavirus tests, without government approval.

What came back confirmed their worst fear. They quickly had a positive test from a local teenager with no recent travel history. The coronavirus had already established itself on American soil without anybody realizing it.

The CDC and the FDA would not have that:

The message from the federal government was blunt. “What they said on that phone call very clearly was cease and desist to Helen Chu,” Dr. Lindquist [the state epidemiologist in Washington] remembered. “Stop testing.”

Our dear leaders are following the four stage strategy (vid):

In stage one we say "Nothing is going to happen".
Stage two we say something may be going to happen but we should do nothing about it.
Stage three: We say maybe we should do something about it but there is nothing we can do.
Stage four: We say maybe there was something that could have been done but it is too late now.

Yascha Mounk follows my argument and gives a reasonable advice on what we can do to make this as pandemic as survivable as possible. Shut everything down that can be shut down. Increase social distance as much as possible. Avoid all live social contacts wherever possible. Do it NOW!

One Tomas Pueyo explains in detail why we must do this immediately. (I checked his numbers and find no faults with them.)

Wuhan city in China was shut down on January 23. Twelve days later, on February 4, the newly confirmed cases in Wuhan reached their peak and declined from there. This gives us the time delay from an infection to become a diagnosed and counted case as the shutdown increased the social distance and lowered the number of new infections.

Each newly infected person itself infected two or three other persons. The growth rate was thereby exponential until they shut the city down. Had the city not been shut down on January 23 the numbers beyond February 4 would have gone higher and higher. That will happen in our cities and countries as our authorities are unwilling or unable to act as early and as decisively as the Chinese authorities did.


Source: Tomas Pueyo - bigger - full

Pueyo:

This is one of the most important charts.

It shows in orange histograms the daily official number of cases in the Hubei province: How many people were diagnosed that day.

The grey histograms show the true daily coronavirus cases. Crucially, these weren’t know at the time. We can only figure them out looking backwards.

What this means is that the orange histograms show you what authorities knew, and the grey ones what was really happening.

On January 21st, the number of new diagnosed cases (orange) is exploding: there are around 100 new cases. In reality, there were 1,500 new cases that day, growing exponentially. But the authorities didn’t know that. What they knew was that suddenly there were 100 new cases of this new illness.

Two days later, authorities shut down Wuhan. At that point, the number of diagnosed daily new cases was ~400. Note that number: they made a decision to close the city with just 400 new cases in a day. In reality, there were 2,500 new cases that day, but they didn’t know that.

This means that we must all act now because today the numbers in Washington state and elsewhere are already exploding even though we do not know yet how high they really are. Those people who do get infected today will only become official cases twelve or more days from now when they will (hopefully) be diagnosed and counted.

The key thing to do now is 'social distancing'. As our governments do not act decisively to achieve that it is our personal responsibility to do that ourselves. Everyone must do this to the best of their abilities.

These numbers are not fantasies but today's reality:

Washington State is the US’s Wuhan. The number of cases there is growing exponentially.
...
Spain has very similar numbers as France (1,200 cases vs. 1,400, and both have 30 deaths). That means the same rules are valid: Spain has probably upwards of 20k true cases already.

In the Comunidad de Madrid region, with 600 official cases and 17 deaths, the true number of cases is likely between 10,000 and 60,000.

If you read these data and tell yourself: “Impossible, this can’t be true”, just think this: With this number of cases, Wuhan was already in lockdown.

China has defeated the epidemic in Wuhan. A few cases leaked and the effects now move into our societies. But our dear leaders are throwing the Chinese victory out of the window by not replicating early and decisively what the Chinese did. Many of us will have to pay for this.

Communists will shut down a city to prevent a deadly epidemic from going exponential. Our neo-liberal leaders only started to care when the Dow Jones went down. Don't expect them to call for a shutdown as that will cost their donor's some money. As mostly elderly people will die they are probably calculating how much money the pension funds will save.

Not shutting everything down guarantees that our health care systems will get overwhelmed. This will increase the death rate of the disease.

Tomas Pueyo as well as Yascha Munck mention the 1918 influenza pandemic and point out how much difference a shutdown made at that time:

As the disease was spreading, Wilmer Krusen, Philadelphia’s health commissioner, allowed a huge parade to take place on September 28; some 200,000 people marched. In the following days and weeks, the bodies piled up in the city’s morgues. By the end of the season, 12,000 residents had died.

In St. Louis, a public-health commissioner named Max Starkloff decided to shut the city down. Ignoring the objections of influential businessmen, he closed the city’s schools, bars, cinemas, and sporting events. Thanks to his bold and unpopular actions, the per capita fatality rate in St. Louis was half that of Philadelphia. (In total, roughly 1,700 people died from influenza in St Louis.)

Good luck to all of us.

---
Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the issue:

Posted by b on March 11, 2020 at 16:19 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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the bubonic plague it ain't.

here in central Italy(Umbria) we're pretty much shut down. food stores, pharmacies, post offices and banks are open...oh yeah, and cigarette vendors ;-), but there's a notable serenity in the air. the latest decree asserts that if you have to go out, you go out alone.

the lingering mystery is why so many people are dying in the north.

longevity in Italy is, i believe, the highest in the world, and as such there are lots of old folks. the birth-rate is negative, but I guess that's a whole other issue...though I predict a surge in births nine months from now.

my daily constitutional takes me by this fountain, where lately i've been reflecting on the fact that it was already here in 1350 when the Black Death breezed through these parts.

Posted by: john | Mar 12 2020 10:39 utc | 201

The inactivity attitude by EU member state will surely show up next elections,
meanwhile Trump will end up getting stronger in the election by actually doing something against the spread of the virus.

Posted by: Zanon | Mar 12 2020 10:56 utc | 202

Rob @187 <-- Back to momma's basement with you.

I've lived in China. I often regret leaving, and returning to the US was certainly a step backwards in time and quality of life. I never saw any of that "dictatorship" that you speak of, and it was a bit of a shock for me when I first got off the plane in the US to see all of the heavily armed "police" and realize that they would shoot people at the drop of a hat. I certainly felt far more free in China than I do now back in the belly of the Beast.

(Aside: whatever happened to the "Brass buttons, blue coat, couldn't catch a nanny goat!" cops that used to only be armed with a stick? They are all these trigger-happy steroid monsters now with over-compensated fragile egos)

"Only a fool thinks China is out of the woods here..."

Yes, the same fool who believes the virus is a natural occurrence and not a bioweapon attack from the Evil Empire.

China is a country that has been heavily populated for millennia, with hardly a square meter anywhere that hasn't been trod over multiple times by humans, but they keep getting hit by "novel" viruses that nobody has ever seen before. Our host mentions that much of the virus' presence in the West is currently hidden, but the hiding act I find most perplexing is how it could have remained hidden in a place like China for long enough to evolve into such a "novel" form that the local population has no natural resistance to it.

Or perhaps it just evolved that way last year? Not very believable.

So yes, China is not out of the woods. They will get SARS Mark III in a few more years, and like the previous iterations of this weapon it will again be something new that nobody's immune systems have any hereditary resistance to.

But don't worry about China. They'll do OK. You'd better be more concerned about yourself, Rob, as it looks like you might be collateral damage is this latest attack by the empire on China.

(Aside: Americans "tsk, tsk!" with feigned concern over innocents that their "smart" bombs kill in collateral damage. I wonder how much they are enjoying being their own collateral damage this time?)

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 12 2020 11:03 utc | 203

People criticize Trump's ban of EU flights (minus the UK, ok, that IS silly). But at least, the flights staff will stop being taken as hostages by their employers!
In a month from now people will be delighted to see that pollution levels have gone down.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 12 2020 11:04 utc | 204

@ Mina:
"People criticize Trump's ban of EU flights (minus the UK, ok, that IS silly)."

Oh, it's not silly; it's just good business. For Trump.

Trump Turnberry, Trump International Golf Links, and Trump-brand Doonbeg golf course and hotel in Ireland are all in the “safe to travel to and from zone”, according to Trump. Just one of those odd coincidences that sometimes occur randomly in the universe.

Posted by: teri | Mar 12 2020 11:08 utc | 205

c1ue @192: "The 35 year old Chinese doctor Li Wenliang... died from it."

What is most scary about that is the extreme measures the Chinese doctors took to try to save his life. They even hooked him up to an artificial lung to try and save him by externally oxygenating his blood. That means his own lungs had failed 100%... totally useless... not even oxygen and a respirator could help, so they tried to oxygenate his blood externally? That's some serious pneumonia.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 12 2020 11:12 utc | 206

@john | Mar 12 2020 10:39 utc | 201
Hi, John: Eric Burdon and "The Black Plague" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAcMzuu70A8t

Posted by: Joerg | Mar 12 2020 11:12 utc | 207

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 12 2020 11:03 utc | 203

I've lived in China. I often regret leaving, and returning to the US was certainly a step backwards in time and quality of life. I never saw any of that "dictatorship" that you speak of, and it was a bit of a shock for me when I first got off the plane in the US to see all of the heavily armed "police" and realize that they would shoot people at the drop of a hat. I certainly felt far more free in China than I do now back in the belly of the Beast.

I completely agree. I remember when they came up with the term "Homeland Security". The first thing that came to my mind was Germany in the time of Hitler, Vaterland.
Vaterland
The ever increasing control at the airports was something that deep down disgusted me. No sooner were you out of the US and this level of in-your-face control would simply disappear. Amazing how easily this was done (with the help of "special events").

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 12 2020 11:31 utc | 208

The top secret US army’s medical research institute of infectious diseases at Fort Detrick was closed last July.

According to the following petition to the White House

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-information-fort-detrick-1?fbclid=IwAR2rXJeQkxMLrTSIkYSESX9fd_GAD-u_xuCJg1GtrAh2I45MPE2gplC3wTk

"we have reasons to ask the US government to publish the real reason for the close of Fort Detrick, to clarify whether the laboratory is the research unit for the new coronavirus "COVID19" and whether there is a virus leak."

What do you make of this petition?

Posted by: TN | Mar 12 2020 12:04 utc | 209

Tom_LX | Mar 12 2020 11:31 utc | 208 die Heimat Sicherheit

Helen Thomas and Wally spoke about the similarities in language. She too noticed the GESTAPO. The piggies are indeed wallowing in violence and power over the herd...

They get, I am told, extra special training these days, often in Israel.

The situation in schools, where absolute obedience is forced, is more odious that the disgusting stuff at the choke points, I mean airport.

My "pink" parents told me in the 1950's that the US would "go fascist" if the Marxist Theory they'd studied was valid, and that they expected a fascist USA, since the reasoned science tended to validate the Theory at that point (US was building hydrogen bombs as fast as possible and doing clandestine "ops" that were transparent (Nixon up to his eyes in that stuff).

In a neighboring County, I was told by a piggie, no "officer" who keeps a dog may be promoted beyond basic level... My (and his) tentative explanation? Such a man might harbor sympathy, and sympathy is a non-desirable quality for a piggie. They want cold cool killer is the (tentative) explanation.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 12 2020 12:07 utc | 210

TN | Mar 12 2020 12:04 utc | 209

Helmer has stuff on that linked. They said they could not guarantee safety. FD was weapons lab. Boyle says all of the BSL4labs are weapon labs and that they all leak.

That translates to "we had a really bad leak, maybe fubar, maybe on purpose, so we closed the shop, and sent some stuff to Chin and Persia so we could blame them".

Posted by: Walter | Mar 12 2020 12:11 utc | 211

S. Korea reports 114 new virus cases, total now at 7,869

Now this is interesting:

About 61 percent of confirmed cases have been linked to a branch of the Shincheonji religious sect in Daegu, which, with a population of 2.5 million, is the country's fourth-largest city.

The pace of daily new inflections had shown signs of slowing in recent days as health authorities completed extensive testing of 210,000 Shincheonji followers who are at the center of the rapid spread, but authorities are still on high alert over new clusters of infections, including a call center in Seoul's Guro district.

Since we know for for a fact that the South Korean government only finished testing all the members of the Christian cult yesterday (March 10th), then we could speculate confirmed cases has fallen for the simple fact there were not many cult members to be tested anymore.

More excerpts corroborate with this interpretation:

Of the 114 new cases, which were detected on Wednesday, 73 are in Daegu and eight are in North Gyeongsang, the KCDC said. The total number of confirmed cases in Daegu and North Gyeongsang, the two epicenters of the virus outbreak here, stood at 5,867 and 1,143, respectively.

Other major provinces and cities have also reported some infections, with Seoul reporting 19 additional cases.

If this information is precise, then the situation we have in South Korea is that, going from the presumption the Christian cult is ground zero, the government is simply concentrating all of its quarantine and testing efforts in the Daegu region. In Seul, for example, the situation pretty much is going on business as usual.

Seul has half the South Korean population during all year except the New Year holidays. Pretty much all of South Korea is a sleepover place for Seul.

Which leaves us with the "container" question: are they really that effective? I mean, just because you have the containers, and just because the tests are free and quick, it doesn't mean a significant number of people are visiting them. South Korea has a very tough working day, identical to Japan's, and it is doubtful a person without symptoms are going to those to get tested.

In my opinion, the luck of South Korea is that it has a culture of isolation of old people which is enabled by a functioning pension system, plus a very hive-minded people, so its feasible national comotion can lead to significant levels of self-isolation. But that's only true for non-working people (i.e. women and children), not to the salarymen who work for the chaebols.

Posted by: vk | Mar 12 2020 12:12 utc | 212

i've been wondering if the delays in DC are another case of "don't let a crisis go to waste". just as 9/11 was an excuse for any number of idiotic actions and laws this outbreak could provide cover for further erosion of the few meaningful liberties yanks have left (as well as those of any travelers or immigrants within the grasp of the US and its fascist border apes). it's not far fetched to imagine capitol hill and/or langley staff pulling all-nighters to brainstorm schemes under the guise of "crowd control" or "quarantine".

as for canceling anything, we'll have to see. we have a little over a dozen cases here in MAGAberta (plus a lot more in BC, quebec and ontario) but that is a doubling of the 7 or so cases only days before. despite this both the upcoming comic expo (one of the bigger comic conventions in canada) and calgary stampede are still happening.

as the link says, last year's stampede had a single day attendance of 129,977 guests and an overall attendance of 1,275,465. that's comprised of albertans and visitors from the other provinces but also many, many yanks and randos from every other country with a substantial redneck population (anyone having difficulty imagining non-US rednecks should just picture ukrainians or hungarians in plaid shirts and dumb cowboy boots).

overall this should be a meaningful test of westerners' ability to differentiate between what they "need" and what they simply "want".

Posted by: the pair | Mar 12 2020 12:32 utc | 213

@209
"Research at a secretive Army germ warfare lab about 50 miles from Washington, D.C. that works with tularemia, which spreads more easily than anthrax, has been partially restarted after a federal inspection found two failures in containing unnamed germs or toxins."
https://www.salon.com/2019/12/07/the-army-quietly-re-opens-its-infamous-germ-warfare-lab_partner/

Posted by: imo | Mar 12 2020 12:38 utc | 214

Throughout the gradually increasing panic as the virus spread into Europe and the US it seems that people are losing sight of important facts.

In China, South Korea and Japan, the earliest hit locations, the spread of the disease and its direct impact has not been especially severe. Apart from the rules introduced to downplay risk of transmission (which are generally sensible but in some cases excessive) there is little evidence of abnormal mortality in communities.

By which, I mean that the standard pattern of flu/pneumonia-related deaths is in not significantly different to any other year.
China: Annual Flu deaths (205,000) Corona deaths (3162)
South Korea: Annual Flu deaths (10,000) Corona deaths (66)
Japan: Annual Flu deaths (43,000) Corona deaths (16)

Italy is an outlier with roughly 5000 flu-related deaths each year and currently 827 Corona deaths.

It's hard to know at this stage why this might be. Is Italy taking no risks and simply classifying all possible Corona deaths as Corona-related?
Either way, it has been estimated in Japan that the annual number of cases of flu is vastly lower this year than it usually is due to the heightened hygiene measures. If this is the case and if Corona cases ease with the end of the flu-season, it is likely that there will be much less deaths (from all forms of flu, etc) than in an average year. With other countries will the nCov19 deaths once added to other flu deaths be noticeably higher than usual, the same, or actually lower? I'm not sure it can be accurately assessed yet, however, the damage of the response is very real.

In 2008 the Global Financial Crisis was estimated to have led to an additional 500,000 cancer deaths around the world due to a lack of access to proper medical care. It is certain that the economic and social impact of the reactions to nCov19 will be far more harmful than the initial deaths from the disease itself.

Caution is very important in situations like this, precautions should be taken and vulnerable groups protected. However, governments should be highlighting the other far more long-term and serious dangers that can arise from excessive panic and overly-strict reactionary measures than can cripple and financially devastate large swathes of the economy and citizenry.

Posted by: Glagaire | Mar 12 2020 12:43 utc | 215

It seems the US is waking up to the reality of the situation, about 3 weeks too late, alas. Dozens of quietly shocked personal communications as grim jokes transition into "ok what now", in the last few days. Several dozen people "isolated" in this upstate NY county, the big university on the hill shutting down, local music events canceled, and most importantly for us here, spread in NYC is most likely out of control, and sooner or later there will be an exodus from there...

Posted by: ptb | Mar 12 2020 12:51 utc | 216

Looks like South Korea is really a farce:

South Korea turns to tech to take on Covid-19 - by Nathan Millard

Keep in mind this article is a pro-S. Korea piece of propaganda.

The author begins with a list of alleged "democratic" and "innovative" measures S. Korea has taken to tackle the epidemic. None of those listed are innovative, nor democratic - they are just common sense, and are being done in China. So let's jump to the objective part.

About the "containers":

Multiple municipalities, led by Goyang, have set up “drive-thru” Covid-19 testing pods where medical staff in protective clothing take samples from people in automobiles.

The process takes only 15 minutes, costs less than US$20 and obviates direct contact as it does not require the driver to exit the vehicle as samples can be collected through an open window. Other major cities, including Seoul, the port city of Incheon and Sejong, the government administrative city, have followed Goyang’s lead and opened similar facilities.

Kim An-hyun, chief of the Goyang community health center, told local broadcaster MBC: “Here we can test many people within a short period of time in a less crowded manner, and there are lower risks of infection because it’s done inside the car.”

That means those containers are not a nationwide policy, but a municipal policy from a single city that was copied by other cities.

They also don't seem to be free: it's not clear in the article if USD 20.00 are the cost of the test paid by the governments or if the user has to pay for them.

They obviously don't exist in every city of South Korea - but an argument can be made that the only city that matters here is Seul, so let's give it a pass.

Those containers also don't seem to have a standardized procedure, as the other cities (not Goyang) have created "similar facilities".

Another problem is that it seems you cannot get tested in those "containers" if you're not inside a car. A lot of people in South Korea don't have a car, since its public transport system is very good, and that's specially true in Seul, where I suppose similar laws than those of Japan for car ownership exist (i.e. you have to prove you have a parking space before you buy one).

Last but not least, the politician interviewed clearly states that those containers can [test many people within a short period of time] - doesn't mean it will.

--

About S. Korea's testing capacity:

South Korea’s large number of confirmed Covid-19 cases can largely be attributed to the country’s widespread testing regime. The country has tested more than 200,000 people and has the capability to test up to 20,000 per day, government officials told foreign reporters this week.

So, by the time mr. Millard collected the data for his article (which by all certainties happened very near the publishing date, which is today), South Korea had tested just 200,000 people.

The problem is that 200,000 is roughly the number of that Christian sect's members, which the South Korean government claimed having finished testing yesterday.

This indicates a bad situation in South Korea, which pictures a scenario where serious quarantine is only happening in the Daegu region. As previously stated by me in another comment, the South Korean government suspects other two clusters outside Daegu (very far to the south). The South Koreans better pray (pun intended) that that Christian sect really is ground zero in S. Korea, and that its government quarantined it in time for it not to fully strike Seul.

--

About innovation and unicorns:

Seoul-based diagnostic company Seegene has developed a diagnostic kit for the novel coronavirus that reduced the time to get results from 24 hours to only six hours. The company uses an artificial intelligence-powered automated production system to produce tests more quickly.
[...]
Biotech startup MiCo BioMed announced last month that it had developed a rapid molecular diagnostic system that could detect Covid-19 in only one hour. The company, which focuses on molecular diagnostics, biological chemistry and immunoassay diagnostics technology, had previously developed equipment to detect bioterrorism pathogens for the 2017 U-20 World Cup Games, 2018 PyeongChang Winter Olympics and 2019 Gwangju Asian Swimming Games.
[...]
Two other biotech startups, Ahram Biosystems and Doknip Biopharm, teamed up to produce a portable, battery-powered scan device that can detect Covid-19 infection in just 30 minutes.
[...]
Genetic technology solutions provider SolGent, meanwhile, recently received emergency use authorization for its in-vitro diagnostic kit. The company’s DiaPlex Q Noble Coronavirus kit takes only two hours from sample collection to return results. A single kit can run 100 tests with a weekly output of 1,000.

So, there's a race to which company achieves the lowest time. They think they can get very rich with this.

Sorry to break the bubble, but, by the time any of those "revolutionary" tests are viable for mass production, the most likely scenario is that the damage is already done and/or the epidemic is already controlled. Unless those startups pull up a Boeing and extract regulatory exemptions from the government:

Another startup is using semiconductor technology to make real-time testing using the PCR technique faster and more reliable.

Sometimes called “molecular photocopying,” PCR – short for polymerase chain reaction – is a fast and inexpensive technique to “amplify” small segments of DNA so they can be used for detecting viruses such as Covid-19. Unfortunately, the technique can suffer from accuracy problems when a few viruses are present in the sample.

"Accuracy problems", which, translated from corporatist langauage means "it doesn't really work".

There's also the problem about how much of these "new" technologies are really there, or if they are just PR:

Optolane’s digital real-time PCR analysis device produces fast, accurate results no matter how few viruses are in the sample, reports the ELEC. According to the company, it takes under an hour for the results, and the price of the kit would be about one-tenth of other PCR kits.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda...

Even if those test kits really reach the masses on time, there's the logistical and societal problems inherent to a capitalist economy:

CEO Kim Sung-woo told local business daily The Hankyung that he hopes the lightweight diagnostic equipment could be installed at airports and ports as well as treatment centers.

Is it realitic to think five low-paid airport employees are going to stop every person who circulates in one of the most important airports in the world, where CEO's whose hour of life is worth millions of dollars, and test one by one? Do you think that's really going to happen?

The most likely scenario is they'll test the people with obvious symptoms. But the virus incubates for two weeks. That means by the time one airport employee tests someone, the damage is probably already done. Besides, people with obvious symptoms will (I hope) self-quarantine.

The most likely is those airports will flood with those tests in stock, while some random unicorn CEO will end up very rich after the epidemic is over.

Posted by: vk | Mar 12 2020 13:02 utc | 217

This is a great time to learn which alternative media is on the payroll.

Posted by: MoA-onThePayRoll | Mar 12 2020 13:11 utc | 218

One more for the "things that never happened" records:

New York Promised 1,000 Tests a Day. It Hasn’t Happened.

Posted by: vk | Mar 12 2020 13:16 utc | 219

Just to add to my comment at #215. The wargaming of a CoVid outbreak by the Gates Foundation, Johns Hopkins and the World Economic Forum in late 2019 is seen by some as evidence of a conspiracy to either instigate or fake a pandemic event. I don't buy into these but it is clear that these very influential groups did have a 'Worst case response scenario' just ready to go at the right time.

As these groups were Western they probably had less influence on the initial Asian response and the threat in these countries actually seemed to be winding down when it spread to first Iran and Italy, and then further. Rather than looking at the previous declines and lack of major explosion in Asia and saying "Okay, its not as bad as it first seemed" its appears as though the spread into Western states was seen as the perfect chance for a trial run of their response plan, regardless of how excessive it might be. When I hear of Merkel making statements that up to 70% of Germans could be infected and 1% of these die, I have to wonder who is pushing her to instil such an exaggerated sense of fear in her public and what impact they hope to achieve from it. It could be that the Event 201 planners felt that a really dangerous virus would destroy us. The panic-buying, wild reactions, and delayed responses on display in this case support such a view. Given this they may have felt that a global panic now was the only way to ensure a sufficient level of fear (among governments and public) to properly prepare for and implement a response strategy that would work against a far more lethal future virus.

Posted by: Glagaire | Mar 12 2020 13:20 utc | 220

I thought people might like to know my observations regarding how Vietnam is dealing with this.

I’ve been here a week, starting in HCM City and now in Hanoi.

80% or more of the locals are wearing a mask, it actually makes it easy to spot the tourists like us.

Hand wash is everywhere, and I mean everywhere. Most museums have someone taking your temperature as you enter, and you have to write down your name and passport number before you are allowed entry.

Hotels are required to ask you where you have come from in the last 14 days, and that along with your passport is (I assume) tabulated against the data recorded from the museums so they can back-track your movements if you come down sick.

This actually happened in Hanoi when two Brits tested positive - any museum they visited is now shut until Sunday, which annoyingly included some on my to-do list.

The highlands north of here aren’t taking tour groups. Ho Long Bay to the east is now closed, as is Cat Ma Island. As is Ninh Binh to the south of Hanoi. Essentially, Hanoi and areas around it is shutting down, more so every day, so we are decamping to Da Nang in the middle of the country.

All this in a country that has a grand total of 39 cases.

The Vietnamese are taking this very seriously, to the point that they are willing to suffer a serious financial cost (tourism is a huge chunk of their GDP) to stay on top of this.

And you can see it - there are no Chinese tourists at all. None. Not a one to be seen.
We were the only two people staying in our little hotel in HCM, and there would not be 50% occupancy in our Hanoi hotel. No way.

The plane from Sydney to HCM city was less than half full, the domestic flight from there to Hanoi also less than half full.

We are probably returning home a week early since at this rate nothing will be open soon.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Mar 12 2020 13:21 utc | 221

Stunning how not only there are the 'culling humanity' minds here, but also the press conference I watched yesterday by de Blasio in NY was myopic. Only concentrating on hand washing and social distancing, telling people 'it's not so bad' ignores the fact that b does point out here: if one does not go all out and close down borders and place restrictions, one does think it's 'ok' to have a higher death rate among senior citizens. How is that right? In other words, if instead of 100,000 senior citizens dying of natural or other non-corona causes in the next 2 months, it would be 500,000 - and that would be 'ok'?
The US and Canada are in a unique geographical situation where locking down borders is easier than it is in the EU. The US testing has been halted early on, is not evenly spread across states, appears badly coordinated across that country, and hence to maintain the estimate of even 40,000 cases as Petri Krohn mentions, is optimistic. Canada should not just do testing at the border; it should simply lock down the borders.
The economic cost will of course be substantial - cutting down movement and events will at the very least cause a 1% annual GDP reduction, and that is without the oil crisis or the stock exchange impact. This may very well snowball and that is what Trump may well fear.
b, I would equally be interested in seeing what the economic recovery period is for China and extrapolate that to the other countries most affected.

Posted by: Josh | Mar 12 2020 13:27 utc | 222

When Germans start today to postpone their meetings scheduled for 25 April, you realize we are in for a long run.
In parallel, you find the Japanese denial at its highest:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-11/olympics-postponement-inconceivable-japan-minister-responds
If bread and circuses cannot go on as planned, what next?

Posted by: Mina | Mar 12 2020 13:47 utc | 223

Posted by: MoA-onThePayRoll | Mar 12 2020 13:11 utc | 218 wrote
"This is a great time to learn which alternative media is on the payroll."

That gold test has long been there.... For me it was a media source's stand on Assange. To me, anyone who has not been unconditionally sportive of Assange's case is either a stenographer or a propaganda organ. No additional tests needed.

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Mar 12 2020 13:53 utc | 224

sorry, missing news
German Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats (CDU) have postponed a key party conference scheduled for April 25 which was set to choose her successor as party leader, amid coronavirus fears.

The party's interim chair, Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, said in a statement:

“The CDU party conference previously planned for April 25 cannot take place. I will therefore recommend to the Federal Executive Committee to postpone the planned party conference and to hold it as soon as the epidemic situation allows.”
“For the CDU the rule is always: first the country, then the party. The health of the people in our country has priority over everything else.”

Posted by: Mina | Mar 12 2020 13:57 utc | 225

Just for the sake of a realistic perspective:
Because of their attacks on foreign nations, the U.S., Britain, Israel, and France have murdered, crippled, and displaced tens of millions of people in the last two decades.
Traffic deaths around the world are at about 1.35 million per year.
Alleged deaths from Coronavirus are under 5000.

My headline would be:
"No Bail-Outs: Do Not Allow Martial Law For A Flu."

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 12 2020 13:58 utc | 226

Nonsense. This is a virus that is less dangerous than the flu the CDC projected for this season. This is little more than fear mongering.

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

H. L. Mencken

Posted by: Greenbean950 | Mar 12 2020 13:59 utc | 227

Well, if someone were looking for a crisis to make use of, this is best darn crisis I could imagine.
Carte blanche. Release the hounds.

Posted by: jared | Mar 12 2020 14:00 utc | 228

***Important***
RE: Corona Virus-Cov19.

This will be my, 2nd-comment only, anywhere, regarding the Corona Virus-Cov19.
My 1st here yesterday, concerned a certain 'J.B-marine-euthanasiast -+ bang-bang guy'.
So.
1st time now commenting on...Corona Virus-Cov19.
Anywhere.
OK?
My wife, is, an expert within 'blood-lab analysis'.
30+ yrs ago, She was on the expert-team at HYKS-Helsinki; ie the biggest hospital in Finland.
The past 30+ yrs, She's been doin' this in Sweden. Specifically Uppsala.
Anyway, when and if I hear 'alarming news' I'll tell everyone...immediately.
Ok?
X-

Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 12 2020 14:00 utc | 229

I disagree with a number of posters wrt to fear mongering. In France, we have local elections in a couple of days and traditional parties are afraid that their biggest voters' chunck, the 70+ people, which they target so consciously all day long with the support of the MSM (security-security-security) are not going to show up. That may pave the way for ... a change.
On top of that, watching the stocks go flat is certainly something many of us here have hope for.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 12 2020 14:06 utc | 230

@ Posted by: Greenbean950 | Mar 12 2020 13:59 utc | 227; and many others

So, that means China didn't act "authoritarian" when it allegedly "silenced" the "whistleblowers" in December 2019.

If you agree with that, then I'm ok with your line of argument, as it at least preserves a logic.

Posted by: vk | Mar 12 2020 14:08 utc | 231

Isn't it lovely there are plenty of tests for AIPAC attendees, CIPAC donors, professional athletes, actors, and corporate upper management types? Nice that the CDC has testing for these very important people. I'm guessing there will be no shortage of antiobiotics or ventilators for these folks. Wonder if the age of 60 as cutoff for treatment will apply to them as well? Nah!

I see Paul Bogdanich wants us little people to die as some kind of retribution for the dead in the Middle East. So do the rich! And for all you Nazis obsessed types, Hitler's Germany were actually National Socialists. "Nazis" was a Jewish slur. Like all socialists and communists they got the multinational corporation and the international banking blessing and support. Look it up some time. Meanwhile thank the gods we will be going to the extreme to keep these rich folks and their lackeys alive.

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Mar 12 2020 14:22 utc | 232

Now they have Holy-Wood to mobilize the Masses. Concerned Tom Hanks wishes all to know that he is just a "regular guy". Like DeNiro who was trying to save us from the Russian controller of Pres. Trump, Evil KGB Agent Putin.

Go make what you wish of this imagery,

From Papa Dodo Bird

and his son,
Dodo Bird 2

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 12 2020 14:25 utc | 233

re: Old and Grumpy | Mar 12 2020 14:22 utc @ 232

Hi Old&Grumpy.
I got a email from David Irving the 4th of January 2020.
Let Me clarify, using the greatest Brittish historian of the 20th-century...

"Nazis?".

Well David explained something poignant:
"..My father J J C Irving, a Royal Navy commander, was active in both World Wars, so I only really knew him when he returned in 1945; he wrote movingly about those and other episodes, and I recognise now many of the phrases, which my mother had picked up and polished, and they became part of our family language over the years while he was away at the wars.
..and why the media have for fifty years always talked about the Germans as “Nazis”, a word which I don't remember hearing at the time.

My father's Navalese confirms it is largely a post-war invention, the glossary lists only other terms used to describe the Germans. It's not important, except I suppose to those who have made money out of it. Maybe Americans at the time spoke of Nazis? Google will tell us when the word, like “Holocaust” in 1970, first came into the common language....".

Facts. Not fiction btw.

Regards and 'non-nazi'...
X-

Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 12 2020 14:40 utc | 234

@ Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Mar 12 2020 14:22 utc | 232

I don't know why, in the 21st Century, in the age of the internet, people still insist on some easily debunkable lies.

The term "nazi" was a fabrication of the British press, not of the Jewish community. Elsewhere, the Nazis were called "fascists" - which is what they truly were.

It is only in the Anglophone countries (and in some Third World countries which are pro-USA) that the ideology of the NSDAP is called "national socialist".

Yes, the members of the NSDAP - at least those at the very top, plus the diplomats and other high officials after Hitler consolidated power - officially called themselves "national socialists" - but the thing is that the NSDAP ideology was clearly copied from Italian fascism, not from socialism, and was an ideology characterized by an emphasis of false propaganda and the aesthetization of propaganda and politics.

Nobody at the time believed - even the NSDAP itself - that the Third Reich really was socialist; the NSDAP was known for its holographic façade from the start, its name being just a very bad joke. We can attest this by the Soviet documents, which always calls the Third Reich "fascists" - even at the low, foot soldier, level. The term "fascist" is often used in Soviet war accounts as a synonym of "German".

By the early 1930s, the Soviets (and all of Europe, for that matter) already were very aware of Hitler's Mein Kampf (where he explicitly states his main goal was to exterminate the communists) - his book is mentioned by both Litvinov and Molotov as a worrying issue in the diplomatic cables between the USSR and Germany in the late 1930s (the Germans envoys response at all occasions was that the book was written a long time ago, that Hitler was a new man now etc.). They were also very aware of the banishing of the German Communists after the fire of the Reichstag and the massacre of communists before that.

Posted by: vk | Mar 12 2020 14:45 utc | 235

I think a private health system is much better way to avoid the overwhelming of the hospital than a socialize health care system.

A private health care system prevents the losers from accessing medical care and thanks to this the hospitals will have plenty of resources for those who really deserve to live: the winners; and this eugenics is the better way to improve the human race, at least in some clever countries.

If some hundred thousands old losers die, what is the problem guys?

Posted by: DFC | Mar 12 2020 14:56 utc | 236

re: vk@235

Sorry.
I differ with your...*facts*:
"..Nazi (also the cognates Nazism and Neo-Nazism) is a political epithet invented by Konrad Heiden✡ (7 August 1901 – 18 June 1966) during the 1920s as a means of denigrating the NSDAP and National Socialism.[1] Heiden was a journalist and member of the Social Democratic Party of Germany, whose mother was a Jewess. The term is both an imitation of the nickname given to Marxists of the SDP at the time, Sozi, and a political pun similar to the Austro-Bavarian word for “simpleton”, derived from the fairly common name Ignatz (German language form of Ignatius). It was then popularised abroad by various Judaics and other subversives, including Heiden himself, who fled the country after the NSDAP were elected to government.

The term was regarded as a derogatory epithet by...".
https://expeltheparasite.com/tag/konrad-heiden/

Haben Sie *facts* vk?
Regards X-
ps.
I know there is even 'earlier info time-wise, but let's let the above be good enough.
pss.
Where are your sources vk? I don't see any links.

Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 12 2020 14:57 utc | 237

I think the West is better prepared for a meteor than a pandemic.

Unless by "prepared" one means ready to invoke propaganda media and inject money into the financial system.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 12 2020 15:02 utc | 238

vk @235:

You're right when you maintain there was no meaningful socialist element in National Socialism, at least as practiced during the years of the Third Reich. There was, however, a socialist element in the party in its early years, most corpulently represented in the figure of Ernst Röhm. That element had to be purged, of course, in order for Hitler to solidify support among the major German industrialists. It is the purging of that socialist element, not homosexuality or coup planning, that explains the Night of the Long Knives.

Posted by: corvo | Mar 12 2020 15:02 utc | 239

Posted by: imo | Mar 12 2020 12:38 utc | 214
Comment to the article references this film,

Philosophy of a Knife
This is a two part series based on testimony and other evidence about the Japanese Unit 731 in China during World War 2. This is a terrifying show that describes the horrors that people can inflict on each other.

film link

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 12 2020 15:12 utc | 240

@236 DFC "I think a private health system is much better way to avoid the overwhelming of the hospital than a socialize health care system."

Well, that claim is testable and I suspect that it will be put to the test very soon.

Have to say it, I don't think you are on a winner.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Mar 12 2020 15:14 utc | 241

@ Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 12 2020 14:57 utc | 237

But it only became popular (and thus entered the Anglo-Saxon vocabulary) thanks to the British press.

It doesn't matter who invented something. What's important is when said thing became socially relevant (for historical analysis purposes). Otherwise I could directly link Andy Warhol with Michelangelo if I wanted to (as many "experts" in the art market do).

--//--

@ Posted by: corvo | Mar 12 2020 15:02 utc | 239

There's a saying in Brazil that states: one swallow alone doesn't make a summer.

There was at least one communist cell within the Wehrmacht, as was discovered by a Soviet soldier from a panphlet hidden in a dead German soldier's pocket in the Eastern Front. Doesn't mean the Wehrmacht was "partially communist". Again, it's not things in isolation that matter the most in History, but things as socio-economic phenomenon. We must not fall for the postmodern trap of treating "small chronicles" as on the same level as History.

When using History as a science, one must not simply gather the documentation and do whatever one pleases with it - you have to read them critically. Without critical thinking, History is pure pseudo-science.

Posted by: vk | Mar 12 2020 15:16 utc | 242

Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 12 2020 14:57 utc | 237
Wow, I had no clue that Nazis came in different "flavors",

Beefsteak Nazi (German: Rindersteak Nazi) was a term used in Nazi Germany to describe Communists and Socialists who joined the Nazi Party.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 12 2020 15:19 utc | 243

I hope this crisis will be the final nail in the Brussels Eurocrats coffin. Let them pack and go home.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 11 2020 19:24 utc | 55

What does an Italian national/regional official's death have to do with the EU? That's obsessive.

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 12 2020 15:20 utc | 244

Laguerre:
Well, it's quite obvious that most Western countries didn't dare to close down their borders because that would be unfriendly, and because they're led by retarded ideologues who consider free movement as far more important a right than the right to live of their very own people.
Italy's borders should've been sealed shut back in the last days of February, and this shit wouldn't have exploded over the entire continent. Granted, the same should've done first to China back in mid-January. And by "sealing shut", I mean that even your own citizens who were staying in cordoned off country would have to remain there until the whole pandemic is over - governments should cover their expenses of course, but allowing any person at all to exit is stupid, no matter who it is or whatever the reason.
I mean, Slovenia, Czechia and Slovakia are closing down their borders right now to protect themselves from the stupid Western European countries, so it can be done. Heck, countries like Israel or Taiwan did it, and it works.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 12 2020 15:30 utc | 245

Must protect Wall Street at all costs:

US Deploys National Guard to New Rochelle, New York to Contain Coronavirus - Video

That is how you know the COVID-19 is serious: keep an eye on what's happening in NYC and its surroundings.

Posted by: vk | Mar 12 2020 15:41 utc | 246

- DFC , 236|, 14:56 utc

"If some hundred thousands old losers die, what is the problem guys?"

If this is meant to be a joke, it's a very bad one. If it is serious, I reject it wholeheartedly as misanthropic.
There is no place on MoA for such views, but they sadly do appear occasionally, like this one.

Basic services in human societies should be FREE, because everyone is entitled to a decent home, healthcare, education, and a decent job. People are not "winners" and "losers". ! There is enough money in the world and enough knowledge and good will for all humans to have a dignified life and reach their full potential. The reason it is not so is precisely because of the ideology that "private property" , private ownership (of the means of production), is socially beneficial. My foot. We all see where that's brought us, including the view that I reject here.

Posted by: JB | Mar 12 2020 15:44 utc | 247

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 12 2020 15:30 utc | 245

You must be American. Simplistic Trump-like solutions work in your view, don't they? Particularly when he blames foreign viruses. You better watch that video interview with Osterholm recommended by Mina.

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 12 2020 15:47 utc | 248

Mintpress and also twitter of whitney webb includes posts and articles in re the deeply regrettable necessity of more or less canceling the election...and the fine boys and girls and others who aim to make it not happen...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 12 2020 15:51 utc | 249

Laguerre,
You seem to be the only one who did not notice the EU complete absence of pro-activity!
The Italian doctor in question had repeatedly complained of lack of protective equipment. And are you really unaware of who is behind the tough decisions made about public hospitals in the EU for the last 10 years? Not following anything of what has been going on in France in terms of strikes and demos by hospital staff? The EU has been intentionally letting private hospitals sink the public ones (you can be state-reimbursed for the silliest surgery without any external advice regarding its necessity, in a private hospital under EU law; most surgeons who practice in the public hospitals do extras in private ones).

Posted by: Mina | Mar 12 2020 15:57 utc | 250

@Glagaire #215
You said:

Italy is an outlier with roughly 5000 flu-related deaths each year and currently 827 Corona deaths.

I've said repeatedly that Italy is a worst case scenario for nCOV: it is the 6th oldest average population in the world and has extraordinarily low numbers of hospital beds per 1,000 people - 1.x to 3 vs. the 6-10 in France and Germany.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 12 2020 16:00 utc | 251

@ 201 john... thanks for the pictures...

@ 221 yeah, right.. thanks for the view from vietnam.. enjoy the rest of your holiday..

@ 224 Nathan Mulcahy... yeah... that was a drive by troll..

@ 236 dfc... can't tell whether that is tongue in cheek or not... if not, my response is - money is not god, even if capitalists wish to make it god.. and i agree with @241 yeah, right..

@ 247 JB - ditto your comment to DFC as well..

Posted by: james | Mar 12 2020 16:03 utc | 252

an update on my situation, my return flight from Hamburg to Venice yesterday was cancelled, I was allowed to change the flight to tomorrow but last night I got notified that it too was cancelled. So, Easyjet has something they call rescue flights from 3 different airports; Gatwick, Charles de Gaulle, and Berlin. I am currently on the train to Berlin. Gotta go to the Easyjet counter and make sure they will take me tomorrow. they are supposed to find a hotel for me as well.

Once in Milan, I need to make my way back to Venice to pick up my car at the airport. That might be interesting.

There is pretty serious martial law going on in Italy right now. If you don't have a pass you will get a big (300 euro) fine. I am hearing that even soldier's spouses are being ticketed for coming to the on base commissary with their children. The police say there is no need to do so if there is a grocery store in the village where you live.

finally, for the first time since I have seen Clueless Joe post, I must say that he missed the point completely. Italy has over-reacted if anything and even with perfect hindsight it is difficult to imagine a better response.

Posted by: dan of steele | Mar 12 2020 16:05 utc | 253

@ vk(246)

Yes, watch what they do/dont.
It appears, that they are responding slowly and then feebly and dis-regarding common sense.
How could that be possible.

On a side note, I sense (not sure) some interesting behaviors on the blog:
- Individuals who dont post frequently with very authoritative/informed/rational input.
- I have a vague impression that discussion is being steered or diverted.
As if there are handlers present.
Nothing to be done about it. It's just the web.

Posted by: jared | Mar 12 2020 16:15 utc | 255

Posted by: harvey golan | Mar 12 2020 16:03 utc | 254

I wanted to find a picture of those Eisenhower Camps I saw years ago and what do I find. Something even better. The funniest part it is not a German website but Chinese.

Camps

On Global Warming Scam I suggest a look at this,

The Perfect Scam

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 12 2020 16:26 utc | 256

@248 laguerre

I see a lot of offended posturing wrt POTUS' use of the word "foreign."

Has everyone caught up to the fact that DJT holds nationalist sympathies, as opposed to touchy-feely globalist jargon?

He framed his address last night from the standpoint of defending America.

As should every leader frame their address as defending their own nationals.

When something invades your country, it is indeed a "foreign" invader.

Politicizing such statements is the stuff of corporate media, CNN, and the like. Pearl-clutching.

Pick a better fight.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Mar 12 2020 16:29 utc | 257

All the blather about this"pandemic" keeps coming from the usual spreaders of bullshit. This is ALL about martial law, gun confiscation, and total control and destruction of the world-wide POPULIST uprising against the bastards ruling us, who are getting desperate because they know that they will all be killed if the people get a real chance to get rid of them.

Posted by: Tony B. | Mar 12 2020 16:37 utc | 258

Nemesiscalling | Mar 12 2020 16:29 utc | 259

Come to reason, please, and drop such a nonsense. Foreign virus, my god. As an excuse for a straight out loser and populist lier.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Mar 12 2020 16:44 utc | 259

Great News ZeroHedge: VP Pence POTUS and Chrystia Freeland Prime Minister Canada?

Justin Trudeau & Wife Self-Quarantine After She Developed 'Virus-Liked Symptoms' Following Trip Abroad: Virus Updates

Brazilian Official Who Took Photo With Trump, Dined At Mar-a-Lago, Tests Positive For The Coronavirus

Posted by: JC | Mar 12 2020 16:58 utc | 260

Posted by: JC | Mar 12 2020 16:58 utc | 263

Fake News !!!!

Justin Trudeau & Wife Self-Quarantine After She Developed 'Virus-Liked Symptoms' Following Trip Abroad: Virus Updates

The script writters want to Masses to "imagine" that "All are Created Equal" (same with that All American "star" Tom Hanks the bs-er). Well I say bullocks.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 12 2020 17:03 utc | 261

Some thoughts:

Washing hands more frequently is good, but don't overdo. I am remembering that at one point in our general worldwide history the 'new thing' was anti-bacterial soap, especially for bathing infants. That wasn't a good thing to do! Why? Because most bacteria are not only harmless but beneficial. So, in the effort to make ourselves germ free we actually wipe out the good along with the bad, as is the case for anti-biotics.

We could indeed live in a germ free world (and some who have no resistance unfortunately have had to do that) but it is practically impossible to do out in the world as most of us have to be, it seems to me, with respect to this virus. It is, or will at least be for a while, everywhere. There are good things to do, which are the things we always do, stay calm, enjoy that in the north it is springtime, and in the south fall - both temperate times of year when we can restore our strength after the ordeals of too much cold or too much heat. And maybe cruises are out, and air travel, so sorry. But walking might be beneficial, so there's always that.

My youngest grandson, six months old now, and I, an oldie, have several things in common. He was born on my birthday, and he was vulnerable to this virus. He caught it; or at least a version of it, in January. They said it wasn't the dangerous one - how did they know? He was plenty sick, poor little guy, but he fought back and he's fine now. I suggested plenty of steam and Vicks vapor rub, the old standby. So yes, it's serious, and even the mild version is very dangerous and very painful. Hardest thing for me at a distance to hear was "He just keeps whimpering." Breaks your heart.

It's a virus. Take it seriously. Best wishes to all. War is not the answer. Hold fast to the good.

Posted by: juliania | Mar 12 2020 17:09 utc | 262

@ Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Mar 12 2020 16:29 utc | 259

The problem is that it is not scientifically accurate: the virus may have originated from the USA (or may not). The it burst at Wuhan may (or may not) have been pure random chance.

That's why we don't use the term "Wuhan Virus" or "China Virus" - scientists haven't found out the true origin of the virus yet (so far, three intermediaries have been found, but no origin).

Posted by: vk | Mar 12 2020 17:14 utc | 263

Italian newspaper Coronavirus, tocilizumab: good results on two serious patients. A protocol is urgently needed to extend drug use Machine translate:
"In 24 hours the therapy has shown excellent results and we are evaluating today the opportunity to extubate one of the two patients, because his conditions have improved", says Ascierto: "Today we will give tocilizumab to two other people hospitalized in Naples and other patients have already received therapy in the centers of Bergamo, Fano and Milan. This drug can only be used in Covid-19 pneumonia 'off label', that is, outside the indications for which it is registered, but it is very important that your use is extended as soon as possible, so we can save more lives. Our structure together with the Colli Hospital was the first in Italy to use this therapy in patients with coronavirus ".

The drug had been used in China, where an improvement in the condition of 20 coronavirus patients out of 21 treated in about 24-48 hours was observed. A 'bridge' was therefore created with Chinese doctors: "Only international collaboration will allow us to develop effective weapons against Covid-19", underlines Gerardo Botti, Scientific Director of 'Pascale': "The positive results of tocilizumab they must now be validated, and for this a multi-center study at national level is needed ".

Posted by: Marco | Mar 12 2020 17:26 utc | 264

SharonM says:

My headline would be:
"No Bail-Outs: Do Not Allow Martial Law For A Flu."

sorry, SharonM, but it's all they know how to do.

Posted by: john | Mar 12 2020 17:29 utc | 265

Not that it matters at this point, but..

Note that this is from Nov 12, 2015.

Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research

Posted by: Seer | Mar 12 2020 17:32 utc | 266

@266 vk

No, the problem is is

1) y'all paranoid

2) you are looking too far into it

...

Popular consensus right now says that it did originate from Wuhan, irrespective of the conspiracy and science babble which POTUS, being a non-intellectual is not privy too anyway.

...

Regardless, China could even call it a foreign invader. I could care less. It is entirely foreign by its fucking nature.

...

Once again, you can tell the Anti-American pearlclutchers in here a mile away.

Absolutely no credit given to POTUS and his compliments given to Xi and China wrt their tackling this.

Y'all just wanna pile on. Pathetically obvious.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Mar 12 2020 17:34 utc | 267

@ DFC , 236

If only you had ended with a /sarc tag, you could’ve spared me reading tedious overreactions. Could you please remember this for next time, buddy? M’kay? ;-)

Posted by: oglalla | Mar 12 2020 17:36 utc | 268

How can the Government help people in a time of financial disruption?

People owe money. We worry about paying our bills, and these worries are aggravated by the closures we are facing.

Perhaps the Government can help with a FINANCIAL INSTITUTION DEBT HOLIDAY.

The basic concept is that people and small businesses owe much to financial institutions and companies because of credit card debt, mortgage and home loans, student loans, car loans and leases, company and personal loans. These debts will be aggravated if people have to stay home and money cannot be made.

Let's take a Holiday. For 30 or 60 days, simply have a moratorium on any payments of indebtedness by people and small businesses to financial institutions or companies. The debt does not go away. Payments simply do not have to be made for 30 or 60 days.

Interest and fees do not accumulate. At the end of the Holiday, money is still owed, and regular repayment schedules kick back in.

During the Holiday, so that financial institutions and companies do not suffer, the Government loans them, interest free, the monies that people are not paying. These loans, of course, have to be reasonably repaid.

Do we extend this Holiday to larger corporations? Maybe.

Posted by: zakukommander | Mar 12 2020 17:36 utc | 269

Thanks, Marco @ 267 - that is a good piece of news!

Posted by: juliania | Mar 12 2020 17:40 utc | 270

@ Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Mar 12 2020 17:34 utc | 270

So, you're implying science is anti-America? If that's the case, then I may agree with you on that one.

--//--

@ Posted by: Marco | Mar 12 2020 17:26 utc | 267

Please don't fall for and spread false hopes. I know Italy's situation is getting desperate, but it is in these times of high stress that we must stay the most calm and focused.

Italy has already registered more than 15,000 cases, with more than 1,000 deaths. Things are still escalating.

Posted by: vk | Mar 12 2020 17:41 utc | 271

vk@246

The National Guard called out New Rochelle are there to limit access to-and-from a Zionist worship center. This is the epicenter where a Lawyer and 10 other members of his family were infected. There are rumors that the lawyer acquired the virus from his Rabbi. Subsequently, several other members of this group were found to test positive for SARS-CoV2. The Lawyer in question used the subway to get to and from his law office and may have spread the virus to his office workers and fellow travelers. New York has a shortage of test kits so we do not know the whole story.

The other main epicenter was a leading Zionist medical doctor high up in the AIPAC organization. He attended backstage AIPAC "Green Room" activities (18,000 attendees/3+ infected) with most major US politicians, leading press commentators, actors etc. The AIPAC conference occurred the same week as the Zionist CPAP meeting so the subsequent discovery of many other centers of infection across the country and across the western world (especially Canada) are linked to both these mass conferences.

The AIPAC meeting serves as the US equivalent of the South Korean cult church epicenter. The US press is afraid to mention the Zionists or who the initially infected people are.

Posted by: Krollchem | Mar 12 2020 17:48 utc | 272

Posted by: Krollchem | Mar 12 2020 17:48 utc | 275

Living in an Age of Fake News I need to be extra careful. How can I be sure that those said to have been infected ARE ACTUALLY infected with Covid-19. Answer is simple, I can't.

But the situation as described nicely deflects ability to point a finger at that crowd as being on the side of so called "evil". They can simply rejoinder and say "See Plebs, even we were infected so this thing was not done by anyone in our Club".

I wouldn't believe that crowd to even tell me the day of the week. That whole AIPAC thing smells of BS.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 12 2020 18:05 utc | 273

Some interesting points being made that prompt deeper thinking into ongoing events. The most obvious is the doom and gloom mantra of the just-in-timers who only judge performance in 90-day increments and refuse to look long term. I highly suggest watching the second half of this Keiser Report, wherein Stacy interviews Max--pay attention to how options are used to manipulate. The first half's focus on Bit-Coin is also useful for those not knowing anything about it. Yes, IMO there's a link between the massive market downdrafts and options manipulation with the Shorts now having gained control.

The second part of the economic whammy has nothing to do with the pandemic, and that's the oil price war being waged against the Outlaw US Empire's oil fracking sector. Dr. Richard Wolff on from 6-15min mark hits the same topic I wrote about yesterday, although he gets more specific being an economist and targets the dysfunctional economic system, which provides part of the basis for a functional Civil Defense System. That vid builds on this article. Also note that all the central banks are touting their monetary actions that will do little as fiscal policy changes are what's required.

Amidst the cries of all the lost business there's few saying it's not lost forever, that's because of the Neoliberal focus on the 90 period or quarter instead of the long term. As Wolff points out in the vid, it's the lack of long term thinking/planning that's led to what he and I see as a Social Crisis that was already in existence prior to the outbreak and lowering oil price.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12 2020 18:08 utc | 274

In defense of b's early optimism:

Window to virus curb wasted

His optimism was well-placed - in China. He had faith the Western countries would use well the month given to them thanks to China's magnificent logistical and medical quarantine efforts.

Needless to say his faith in the West was misplaced. But good for China.

Posted by: vk | Mar 12 2020 18:13 utc | 275

In answer to Jpc - one hypothesis is that the virus came from the US so the US just shuts down any reporting that would reinforce this. Although most would say never point to conspiracy when stupidity will suffice - one has to wonder about the CDC sending out useless tests. A top Chinese foreign official just twittered he thought the virus was brought to Wuhan by the US army. I read a report form Taiwan where a virologist says he thinks it for sure came from the US. The timing and deadliness of the Iran outbreak for me points to Israel for that outbreak. There are different strains. Early detection of the strains and revealing the mutation direction would identify where it came from.
AS to b's initial post downplaying the severity - as Yogi Berra said - predictions are hard The're about the future. b's predictions are not as good as his excellent reporting but I don't put him down for saying what he thinks. It's the best way to get wrong stuff out of your head.

Posted by: gepay | Mar 12 2020 18:21 utc | 276

@Peter AU1 191

Your statement "Perhaps coronavirus rather than nuclear armageddon will bring obese yanks to their senses." raises some interesting questions going forward. Death numbers won't really affect change, we kill far more with flu,guns,cars,etc. what will get their attention is how they die, it's not of our making which means were vulnerable. That's a hard pill to swallow being an exceptional country \s. If Washington does go into total disarray would other countries use the opportunity for a first strike? Hopefully the masses will get a slight taste of what doing without is like and might refrain from causing others to.

Posted by: Tobi | Mar 12 2020 18:21 utc | 277

CEPR (Center for Economic and Policy Research) is warning (and explaining how/why) social security will be undermined via the back door with Trump admin calling for payroll tax cut. Do not know how to give links so look it up at cepr dot net. Explains how relief can be (and was) done correctly in past. Wealthpower giants are grabbing yet more - the virus gives great opportunities to accomplish what hasn't been possible until now. Yes, this killer is OF COURSE being used to grab grab grab by the grabbing 1% everyone tolerates, alas.

Wallstreetonparade dot com is good to read, too. Has of late explained the Wall Street firm behind Biden's "surprising comeback". The ongoing banksters bailout is not being reported as virus news fills airwaves.

Trillions for the rich and their wars, no one says stop it those bombs cost millions EACH and we drop millions - then someone proposes healthcare for all and immediately the question arises how can we possibly pay for that.

Pity poor humanity, so blind, so suffering, so needlessly.

No less a lover of humanity than R. Buckminster Fuller tried his damndest to tell us that we can no longer afford the stuff and projects of killingry we have wealth enough only for the stuff and projects of LIVINGRY - but humans don't listen to wise voices who see the big picture.

Obviously the last man in the US Marine Corp worth hearing was Smedley Butler.

The world certainly can do without the wasteful, overpriced, resource-sucking, pan-polluting US Marine Corp with its loathsome murder-on-command military adventurism that serves to help keep the wealthpower giants wealthy and powerful and keep the Zionists calling the shots in US elections and Government, enslaving the overworked, robbed and unprotected 99% -

- but just what will the world do without the millions of grannies and grampas who daily provide life-giving, economy-boosting unpaid care to several generations in spite of our underlying health conditions? Unpaid care to the tune of billions and billion of dollars

My thanks and prayers go out to all the caregivers of all ages inside and outside the hospitals. You are the heart of humanity and if humans do outgrow their self-harming love of overpayunderpay and thereby survive, posterity will build statues of you.

The warrior types thumping their chests and demanding respect and bananas can go ... beg forgiveness for your abhorrent acquiescence to killingry behaviors.

Posted by: Phryne's frock | Mar 12 2020 18:36 utc | 278

@ DFC , 236

If only you had ended with a /sarc tag, you could’ve spared me reading tedious overreactions. Could you please remember this for next time, buddy? M’kay? ;-)

Posted by: oglalla | Mar 12 2020 17:36 utc | 271

Yes, I apologize for the rant, really I was trolling, but I think this kind of comments I made is not very far away from what many people really thinks about what a "just" medical system should be.

For me, an Spaniard, the terms "loser" and "winner" defining people are, in fact funny/riduculous when translate to my mother language, and we (almost) never use it.

We "lose" or "win" as matter of life, but for our cultural tradition, it has no meaning to be a "winner" or a f***ing "loser", and I think this kind of language have their roots in the predestinationist-calvinistic worldview that imply there is a fundamental rift between people, decided by God in the Beginning of Time, so a few are "chosen" and are the "just", or the "winners", and the rest are the "doomed", or "losers" that deserve their condition, and I think that is the reason the calvinistic rooted societies, like the american, are so implacable with the poors, and also as Steinbeck said:

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

It is the religious roots of the cultural values of american psyche that prevent a fully socialize health care to be adopted in the USA, and prevent many others approach that make some kind of "colectivist" strategies so abhorred in the "land of the free".

On the other hand this religious roots made the calvinist societies, as was described by Max Weber in his essay "The Protestant Ethics and the Spirit of Capitalism", the right kind of culture medium for the development and triumph of the capitalism, and in fact, it defines the way the global society is built now (even Modern Science was born at the same time as Modern Capitalism and this is not by chance)

Cheers

Posted by: DFC | Mar 12 2020 18:43 utc | 279

We call it the Spanish flu even though it did not originate there. In fact, it seems to have originated in the U.S.

Posted by: lysias | Mar 12 2020 18:55 utc | 280

Phryne's frock @281--

In the video I linked @277, Richard Wolff comments on the 100% wrongheadedness of Trump's proposal but doesn't look into ulterior motives for the move.

Sanders appeared on Fallon Tonight and said the following:

"In 60 seconds @BernieSanders says more about what needs to happen to combat the Coronavirus than Joe Biden said this whole campaign."

It's only one minute of your time, so watch!

Have you noticed that Trump and Biden have the same number of letters and that isn't the only thing they have in common.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12 2020 19:09 utc | 281

I've said this crisis is only a crisis do to Moral Failure by all Western governments on a Macro scale. Here's a recent example of Moral Failure at the Micro level:

"AT&T and Trump pushed hard for 2017 massive tax cut for business. Both said tax savings would enable corporations to increase employment.

"Since that time, AT&T has CUT its employees by over 37,000."

If we add all the other job cuts done by similar corps at that time, the Moral Failure would be Macro.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12 2020 19:20 utc | 282

France just announced no school startng on monday, a good move but the issue is closing of borders really to stop the spread.

Posted by: Zanon | Mar 12 2020 19:27 utc | 283

vk @278 says 'He had faith the Western countries would use well the month given to them thanks to China's magnificent logistical and medical quarantine efforts.' - magnificent logistical and medical quarantine efforts - ROFLMAO! Talk about propaganda. Wow! Just wow!

'Western countries would use well the month given to them thanks to China...' - It was a doctor in Wuhan who blew the whistle alerting the world to what was happening in Wuhan. It was not the CCP. In fact, the CCP gave no warning only excuses for not alerting the world to the outbreak. There was no month of lead time given to anybody. The world body has had to figure it out on their own.

Let's talk about 'magnificent' and where this outbreak began, shall we?

2/3 - Thai Medics Claim Coronavirus Breakthrough: Patient Is Declared 'Disease Free' in 48 Hours Using HIV and Flu Drugs......
2/3 - Whistleblower Arrested in China After Secretly Filming Piles of Body Bags at Wuhan Hospital...
2/10 - Coronavirus Outbreak Puts China’s Alleged Biowarfare Research Under Scrutiny...
2/13 - Sudden Militarization of Wuhan's P4 Lab Raises New Questions About the Origin of the Deadly Covid-19 Virus...
2/18 - Coronavirus Bombshell: 'Real Cause' of Outbreak Claim - Chinese Scientists Break Cover...
2/20 - Japan Will Use HIV Drugs to Treat Coronavirus...
2/24 - Corona Expert: Chinese Scientists Sell Lab Animals as Meat on the Black Market...
2/25 - Wuhan to Quarantine All Cured Patients for 14 Days After Some Test Positive Again...
2/26 - Scientists Discover HIV-Like "Mutation" Which Makes Coronavirus Extremely Infectious...
3/2 - "What Are the Odds?" - A Timeline of Facts Linking Covid-19, HIV, & Wuhan's Secret Bio-Lab...
3/2 - Chinese Authorities Require Government Offices to Destroy Data Related to Coronavirus Outbreak...
3/4 - The Coronavirus Is Mutating--and Scientists Have Identified a More Aggressive Strain...
3/4 - Wuhan Seafood Market, Ground-Zero For Coronavirus Outbreak, Demolished...
3/5 - Coronavirus Has Mutated at Least Once Into Two Strains, Study Finds...
3/11 - Wuhan Doctor Whose Text Prompted Whistle-blower Li Wenliang to Sound the Coronvirus alarm 'Received extremely harsh punishment for sharing information about SARS-like Disease'...

Why New Diseases Keep Appearing in China - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54&feature=emb_logo

An organic or naturally occurring virus does not show strains of HIV in them. This is why there are solid suspicions that the Level 4 Lab in Wuhan, a lab less than a thousand feet away from the Wuhan Seafood market is suspect. It's why many including heads of countries are treating this virus as the Frankenstein it is.

As for the 'magnificent' load of bunk, ya might want to simply search for Wuhan crematoriums or Wuhan dead stacking up in hospitals and so on. There was no magnificence. There was pain. There was panic. There was fear. There was death.

As for the silly Fort Dietrick deflection. The lab was shut down in August of 2019. A full six months before the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan - "All research at a Fort Detrick laboratory that handles high-level disease-causing material, such as Ebola, is on hold indefinitely after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found the organization failed to meet biosafety standards. No infectious pathogens, or disease-causing material, have been found outside authorized areas at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases. The CDC inspected the military research institute in June and inspectors found several areas of concern in standard operating procedures, which are in place to protect workers in biosafety level 3 and 4 laboratories, spokeswoman Caree Vander Linden confirmed in an email Friday. The CDC sent a cease and desist order in July...The suspension was due to multiple causes, including failure to follow local procedures and a lack of periodic recertification training for workers in the biocontainment laboratories, according to Vander Linden. The wastewater decontamination system also failed to meet standards set by the Federal Select Agent Program, Vander Linden said in a follow-up email..."

Posted by: h | Mar 12 2020 19:30 utc | 284

K > "... but from a friend," Solzhenitysn launched a long, scathing attack on western society as morally bankrupt."

"Solzhenitsyn Says West Is Failing as Model for World" By Lee Lescaze
June 9, 1978 Washington Post.

He was quoted, as we recall, as saying "the West is morally bankrupt."
At the time this was somewhat shocking, but we agreed. After all, we had the several examples to see.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 12 2020 19:31 utc | 285

A consequence of rapidly disappearing airline flights and reduced industrial activity will be a reduction of global dimming. The degree of global temperature increase due to this ranges from not much to apocalyptic but in any event should shortly become apparent.

Posted by: Trisha | Mar 12 2020 19:33 utc | 286

Another example of Massive Moral Failure:

"US's private profit-driven med system fails in face of Coronavirus. Heroic 1st responders too few, lack tests, can't manage the scale.

"Gov't for yrs served system's profits 1st, not pubic health. A radically different health system is the screaming need."

I do hope those within the Outlaw US Empire start using the theme of Moral Failure in writing why this has become a crisis. The only reason the USA didn't enact universal healthcare during the Great Depression was due to opposition by the AMA--America's Doctors--who went against their oath to cause no harm and are the root cause of what must be considered one of the greatest Moral Failures of all time.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12 2020 19:37 utc | 287

@Trisha #289
You said:

A consequence of rapidly disappearing airline flights and reduced industrial activity will be a reduction of global dimming. The degree of global temperature increase due to this ranges from not much to apocalyptic but in any event should shortly become apparent.

This isn't credible since the analysis fails to take into account the drop in fossil fuel usage - oil consumption in China is down 20%. Decreases worldwide are likely - both from less travel overall and from fear keeping people more at home.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 12 2020 19:42 utc | 288

I made some earlier posts and I guess didn't express myself well. Either that or people are really dense. I'm a statistician by trade not a virologist but present with a mathematical model of whatever discipline and I'm very good at characterizing the function. I have read a number of the studies. In particular the Chinese did a Epidemiological Characterization with an n = 44,672. The Americans then did one on comparative genetics. Then the Germans chimed in with a Virological Assessment.

The epidemiological study characterizes expected mortality. The comparative genetics quantifies the difference in virulence as the virus mutates. Th virological assessment quantifies how the virus is spread.

The basic conclusion of the sum of these studies is we are in a situation where some of us are going to die. Let me say that again. Some of us are going to die. Maybe as many as 15 million worldwide. In context that's a 0.2% death rate. Point two percent. Two tenths of one percent.

My question is what do you do about that? Shut down society and spend the better part of a trillion dollars so that only 10 million die instead of 15 million (those numbers are worldwide. In America it's the difference between 500,000 and 400,000)? What I'm saying is the panic is worse than, and doing more damage than, the disease. The response is wholly irrational. We're in a tough spot, beyond our control. Some of us are going to die. Nobody's fault. Just a virus but the end result is the same. Some of us are going to die. I just lament the fact that nobody seems to be able accept the hard facts carry on and not let the side down. Compared to the whole of human history when even bacterial disease was incurable our current behavior is an embarrassment to the species. Summon up some courage and if you are unlucky and are one of the point two percent and do perish, do it with some dignity worthy of a human being.

Anyway without getting into it, I think our response is cowardly, fear based and will ultimately be ineffective. If the Virological Assessment is even close to correct there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. You can drag it out for as many as three years instead of letting it be over in nine months but the end result will be the same possibly better or worse depending on how the virus mutates. I think we're making a fear based mistake.

Posted by: Paul Bogdanich | Mar 12 2020 19:44 utc | 289

lysias @283
I believe that the 'flu was called Spanish, because the Spanish government was the only one correctly reporting the number of deaths. This created the, entirely false, impression that it was centred on Spain.
So far as its US origins are concerned it is surely no coincidence that it arose at the same time that millions of young Americans were being torn out of their communities and sent to barracks for basic training. Followed by concentration in, inter alia, troopships and despatch overseas.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 12 2020 19:47 utc | 290

Posted by: h | Mar 12 2020 19:30 utc | 287

This report on 2019/12/04 contradicts what you state.

Research at a secretive Army germ warfare lab about 50 miles from Washington, D.C. that works with tularemia, which spreads more easily than anthrax, has been partially restarted after a federal inspection found two failures in containing unnamed germs or toxins.

The Lab

Beside, the Empire of Lies will do what liars always do, lie. Bio-warfare is an important component of the "Rebuilding Americas Defenses" report and work will go on.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 12 2020 19:48 utc | 291

Anyone remember the Odigo messaging scandal after 9/11? There was apparently an Israeli instant messaging service that alerted all Isreali citizens to evacuate or avoid the Twin Towers minutes before the attack started. Maybe the story out of New Rochelle is a way to avoid suspicion by making it appear that they're now the victims of what could very well be their follow-on salvo to the 9/11 attack.

Posted by: information_agent | Mar 12 2020 19:58 utc | 292

Walter @288--

Now that I contemplate writing a longer article about Moral Failure, the question becomes How Long or Since When. As Hudson's masterly revealed, the pursuit of profit instead of enlarging people's wellbeing--the primary Moral Failure--is over 4,000 years old. In the Western Hemisphere, it began on 12 October 1492 thanks to the preceding Moral Failure--the Treaty of Tordesillas and associated Papal Bulls stemming from it. Moral Failure's also behind Jamestown and Plymouth. The 1787 Constitution's a Moral Failure, just as the dream and drive to establish a continental sized nation was also a Moral Failure.

What makes the decision of where to begin difficult is all those Moral Failures are still with us now, today, and infect the mindset of all too many--elite and impoverished alike. An excellent question and topic would also be: Can the USA Become a Moral Nation, and if Yes, How? But that requires making the argument that the Outlaw US Empire isn't currently a Moral Nation, something I intend to do this evening via the Franklin Reality Model. Guess I'll use lunchtime to muse about it all some more.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12 2020 20:02 utc | 293

Slow the epidemic down, let it take thee years, and health systems will not be overwhelmed. Many, many lives will be saved.

Posted by: lysias | Mar 12 2020 20:05 utc | 295

Paul Bogdanich @292--

Thanks for providing an excellent example that all the previous Moral Failures I mention @296 are still with us.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12 2020 20:09 utc | 296

Paul B @292

All of us die. Its one of lifes certainties. Life has a CFR of 100%.

As to why they do this. Its out of the Hegelian playbook. Problem - reaction, solution. The solution to the problem, already written up before the event like the Patriots Act throws a pile of money at those who create the problem (lab virus) and offer solution (vaccines under development for years and processes patented before the event). Plus it also pushes through control measures the technocrats are pining for, such as mandatory vaccinations, control over travel, digital ID to detect the ID of those who fail temp checks on IR cameras (and many other reasons), cashless society (cash money carries viruses), and fast track 5G for realtime health monitoring using nanobots and chips (also energy consumption monitoring and control), etc.

Other benefits, since this is a virus that appears to target the elderly is elimination of some of the elderly population. China, Italy and US all have aging populations on social security. In Italy the high mortality rate is because elderly are not being treated giving priority to younger patients, contributing to higher mortality rates, also other treatments for stroke and heart attacks are being impaired to use resources to fight the virus.

And of course, look at the effect on the elections. Who gains is yet to be determined but it seems like a pretty good gift to the socialist candidates if the older folks stay home, assuming we even have elections as it could be an excuse to go to martial law and suspend elections indefinitely

Insurance probably covers some of the losses for the big boys but tge insurance giants will be bailed out. Low oil prices and demand could finish off iran and Venezuela and help the big boys take over a bigger share of the shale market as smaller players go bankrupt

Posted by: Pft | Mar 12 2020 20:14 utc | 297

Here's an excellent example of what being Morally Correct--putting the needs of people before all other considerations--translates into:

"Noting that the prohibitive expense of the test could discourage poorer Americans from getting tested, Porter demanded Redfield use his legal authority under the Code of Federal Regulations to waive the cost.

"Wow. Katie Porter cites law that lets CDC pay for costs of diagnostic testing for anyone when needed. Asks CDC's Redfield if he'll commit to invoke that authority to make it free of charge for anyone. Redfield ducks, but Porter badgers him into saying 'Yes.'"

If only altering all the other government & business immorality was that easy.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12 2020 20:20 utc | 298

Life in the US is shutting down this weekend. I am reading and hearing about lots of cancellations of activity through the end of the month.

Paul Bogdanich writes that "...we're making a fear based mistake." The cult that own global private finance are counting on that fear to maintain control. Humanity is in a civilization war and the perverts of the God of Mammon religion are behind the ongoing manufactured fear to maintain control in the West. Since war hasn't been able to be manufactured then a pandemic with lots of bully leadership and media focus and Overton Window control of the narrative is being manufactured.

The elite have had over 10 years since 2008 to set up this world wide crisis and associated economic (debt) crash. Maintaining a top/bottom social structure with a tiny elite in a world of billions at the bottom is forcing drastic measures.....all about private/public control of human financial interactions......evolve or die off would be Darwin's characterization of the choice, I believe.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 12 2020 20:27 utc | 299

Coronovirus survivor here,.. It Really isn't that bad. It's like a hectic flu. Anybody who keeps themselves fit, you got no worries. I got a family and they all got sick, apart from the 9 year old boy who diligently looked after mom and dad and everybody else while we were down. My advice to you people is to prepare for the worst fucking flu you ever had. But it's not that bad. Two weeks, most, and it's done.
Just don't invite grandma around...

Posted by: D | Mar 12 2020 20:29 utc | 300

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