Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 21, 2020

Coronavirus - On Western Government Failures And Possible Therapies

The U.S. intelligence services fear to come under questioning for not raising enough warning about the novel coronavirus pandemic. To prevent any criticism they asked their favored stenographers to write an exculpating piece.

Thus the Washington Post headlines:

U.S. intelligence reports from January and February warned about a likely pandemic

U.S. intelligence agencies were issuing ominous, classified warnings in January and February about the global danger posed by the coronavirus while President Trump and lawmakers played down the threat and failed to take action that might have slowed the spread of the pathogen, according to U.S. officials familiar with spy agency reporting.

The intelligence reports didn’t predict when the virus might land on U.S. shores or recommend particular steps that public health officials should take, issues outside the purview of the intelligence agencies. But they did track the spread of the virus in China, and later in other countries, and warned that Chinese officials appeared to be minimizing the severity of the outbreak.

If the spy services were really concerned about the issue why did they not warn the public? Instead of leaking new idiotic fairytales they could have leaked a warning about the pandemic. Instead we were given this:

If the intelligence services had taken the pandemic seriously they could have warned the public via their countless stenographers in the media. Instead they kept the media filled with false anti-Russian stories and told Trump that the Chinese are lying which they were in fact not. And now they blame Trump for not listening to them.

Trump of course would have not have believed the intelligence reports anyway. Why would he? The FBI and CIA have for three years tried to get him impeached. They created Russiagate based on a fake dossier. They lied to get FISA warrants to spy on his campaign. When Russiagate finally fell apart the CIA sent a fake 'whistleblower' to launch Ukrainegate. In Trump's place there is no reason to believe a word of whatever any of the 'intelligence officials' say.

The intelligence services failed to issue effective warnings. But they were not the only ones. All institution in 'western' countries and their leaders have lacked in their preparation for a larger outbreak.

China warned us early on. The WHO was informed in late December. On January 3 the director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was informed by his Chinese colleagues. After China recognized that the new SARS-CoV-2 virus indeed jumped from person to person it took radical measures to get a grip on the epidemic and those measures have worked well. China has only 3,255 death in a nation of 1.4 billion people. Today all checkpoints were removed from Wuhan city and life there is slowly turning back to normal.

Other Asian nations have likewise reacted fast and effectively. It was and is the 'west' which, despite having been warned, is responding poorly to the crisis.


In 2002/2003 Asian countries fought the SARS epidemic. In 2015 South Korea had a large outbreak caused by the MERS virus. Those countries have learned the lessons from the outbreaks and worked early on to keep the current curves flat. Why was no western country able to learn from them?

Iona Craig أيونا كريچ @ionacraig - 18:22 UTC · Mar 21, 2020

You know the world has turned upside down when family and friends - including Yemeni friends in the UK, US & India - are telling you to stay in Yemen for your own safety. In a time of world firsts. In 10yrs living in or reporting on Yemen, 5 of them in war time. It's a 1st for me.

Meanwhile we learn more about the new virus and about possible therapies. This though isn't a reasonable one:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump - 14:13 UTC · Mar 21, 2020

HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You! Hopefully they will BOTH (H works better with A, International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents)..... put in use IMMEDIATELY. PEOPLE ARE DYING, MOVE FAST, and GOD BLESS EVERYONE!
@US_FDA @SteveFDA @CDCgov @HSgov

The claim that the anti-malaria drug (hydro-)chloroquine helps in SARS-CoV-2 infection cases comes from two Chinese studies which are only based on in-vitro tests on the virus and human cells. The doses were relatively high and chloroquine is know to have some bad side effects. There is also no sound way yet to get chloroquine into the lower lungs where the virus resides and where it would be actually needed.

There is also a small French trial with chloroquine based on real patients but which is unfortunately invalid. It was a non-randomized study with only 42 patients of which 6 dropped out.

The researches counted the number of viruses before and after the medication to see if it works. But they only took swabs in the throat to look for viruses. During the cause of a SARS-CoV-2 infection the virus does start to multiply in the throat but it then migrates down into the lower lung. Only there does the virus begin to grow in really big numbers and to cause serious damage. While that happens the virus count in the throat region goes down. The French researchers did not know that.

The above details are from the daily podcast no. 17 by Professor Dr. Christian Drosten, the chief of the virology department at the Charité in Berlin. German transcripts are available here. Drosten was involved in several clinical case studies with Covid-19 cases during which every development was measured and detailed.  He knows how the disease proceeds.

There is more to be criticized in that French study. Gaetan Burgio, a geneticist at the Australian National University, summarizes his own critique:

In short, all this hype on the clinical trial is based on a open label, non randomized and underpowered clinical trial on HCQ treatment against #COVID19 with viral load as an outcome that was not properly measured in 2/3 of the control cohort !!!

So to answer the question: What is the evidence of justifying using HCQ or CQ as a prophylactic or curative treatment against #COVID19. The simple or short answer is NONE. To ascertain it, we need a proper and powered randomized clinical trial

While I understand we are in a #COVID19 pandemic, there is no reason or whatsoever to throw away all the evidence based medicine and not doing rigorous science or a randomized clinical trial !

Chinese researcher believe they will have more success with interrupting the bonding process with which the virus sneaks into the cell:

The virus uses the outreaching spike protein to hook on to the host cell, but normally this protein is inactive. The cleavage site structure’s job is to trick the human furin protein, so it will cut and activate the spike protein and cause a “direct fusion” of the viral and cellular membranes.

Compared to the Sars’ way of entry, this binding method is “100 to 1,000 times” as efficient, according to the study.
Chinese researchers said drugs targeting the furin enzyme could have the potential to hinder the virus’ replication in the human body. These include “a series of HIV-1 therapeutic drugs such as Indinavir, Tenofovir Alafenamide, Tenofovir Disoproxil and Dolutegravir and hepatitis C therapeutic drugs including Boceprevir and Telaprevir”, according to Li’s study.

This suggestion is in line with reports by some Chinese doctors who self-administered HIV drugs after testing positive for the new coronavirus, but there is as yet no clinical evidence to support the theory.

There are now dozens of ongoing trials with real patients. Thousands of capable researchers are working on a therapy for the Covid-19 disease and on a vaccine against SARS-CoV-2 virus. In a few months we are likely to have both available.

Meanwhile we can stay out of the way and learn how to make our own face masks.

Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the issue:

Posted by b on March 21, 2020 at 19:17 UTC | Permalink

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@Peter AU1 #197
The typical flu virus mutates - from a population standpoint, mind you - 6-8 times a month because the single strand RNA viruses are simply fundamentally crappy about replicating accurately.
nCOV is 96% identical to Wuhan bat coronavirus, it is 99% identical to Wuhan bat coronavirus in pangolins. And pangolins are actually wild in the region Wuhan is in.
Lastly, the nCOV virus - while physically large, is only 30,000 nucleotides long.
A 99% match means only 300 nucleotides in the sequence are different.
And while a 1 nucleotide delta can be responsible for say, sickle cell anemia in humans, in a virus - viruses are so simple that it is unlikely really small changes would be survivable or reproducible.
Viruses just aren't very complex genetic machines.
Given that the virus RNA is largely for coding proteins, a 99% match is more than close enough.
The scientists are going to do more research, but statistically it is 100% clear where nCOV came from.
I suggest you look at the Washington state nCOV genetic testing diagram here
It shows the significant amount of mutation just within the state of Washington over a matter of weeks - remember, nCOV is only 30K nucleotides long yet there are dozens of variants already in this single study/region. Hover over the major lines and a popup will tell you the place of change and number of descendants found.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 23 2020 2:27 utc | 201

@krollchem #200
Quercetin or any other substance, if it operates in any similar manner to chloroquines in that it changes attributes at the cellular level, is going to embody significant risk.
It doesn't matter of the substance is inert if consumed in the diet, is non-reactive, blah blah. The very fact that it changes cellular operation if delivered at that level means there is inherent risk.
It is much like water - perfectly fine unless you breath too much of it.

Anything in the wrong quantity in the wrong place can cause harm.

For the chloroquines, we know this risk is largely with cells in the eyes.

For a new substance, we have no idea whether, where or how much these cellular level changes will be problematic.

This is the very definition of high risk in my book.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 23 2020 2:32 utc | 202


From the medical literature chloroquines actually have a wide range of medical side effects. True, ocular issues are most significant among those who take these derived chemical substances.

As an aside, my wife's uncle used chloroquine a lot during his years as an agronomist while on assignment in the Belgian Congo during the 1930s. He survived five years in a German POW camp and lived into his 80s.

Good point about risks of overdoes with anything. As a chemist I have dealt safely with more hazardous substances than almost anyone in the US government, aside from those who develop chemical and biological weapons and advanced organic chemical synthesis.

Up to now these substances serve as part of the natural biochemical pathways within the human bodies. I await further work by the Canadian researchers on the use of bioflavanoids, one of which is Canada's leading researcher in the field of viral diseases. In the meantime, one goes into battle with the weapons one has, and in this case chloroquines are tried and true weapons for the early stages of this infection as you state.

Medically, the SARS-CoV-2 virus is not a problem for me based on my efforts to maintain cellular biochemical health through proper nutrition based on real foods, and not food like substances developed in the laboratory. There is a wealth of research on the causes of hypertension, diabetes and heart dis-ease and in most cases the cause is an improper diet. The tragedy is that these afflicted with other diseases find the virus to a final stress on the cellular systems leading to secondary infections and multiple organ failures.

Still, I find it is best to avoid everyone for a few months. Sure glad I am no longer in a MASH unit given the widespread lack of proper PPE, equipment and facilities that medical personnel must now endure during this crisis.

Thanks for the calibration check. Stay safe...

Posted by: krollchem | Mar 23 2020 3:24 utc | 203

America is weaponizing the coronavirus to destabilize and attempt to regime change nations around the world.

There really is no limit to the malevolent depths that the Americans will sink to.

And their behavior demonstrates American "values" in all their sociopathic glory--and perfectly represent the American gangster empire in its essense.

US imperialism exploits coronavirus as a weapon of war

US response to Iran’s coronavirus disaster described as ‘an evil for which there are no words’

Expert: US sanctions on Iran, Venezuela during pandemic could be genocidal

Meanwhile, most Americans are more concerned about cat-fighting over toilet paper than opposing their country's latest crime against humanity.

Posted by: ak74 | Mar 23 2020 8:28 utc | 204



Thank you for posting the link to that diagram. If I'm interpreting it correctly the orange dots show cases in the U.S. that tested positive for nCOV virus, the earliest being on Jan 19. It also shows at least a dozen more known cases in the U.S. that tested positive in January. Any idea why there wasn't a more rapid spread of COVID-19 in the U.S. until recently?

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 23 2020 12:27 utc | 205


From what I understand, chloroquines have a narrow therapeutic widow when it comes to treating existing infection. Too little and they are not effective, a little too much and there can be side effects.
As preventive there is a much wider therapeutic window. 300mg per week as preventive vs 600 intital dose plus 300mg per day is the dosage rates I have read for malaria. In vito testing against coronavirus indicates similar rates.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 23 2020 13:17 utc | 206

c1ue 201

In domestic live stock and all domestic animals, there are breeds and within the breeds there are bloodlines. Similar in the plant plant world with varieties and then another division within varieties though I forget the term.
The family tree in your link looks similar to bloodlines within a breed.
Both MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV, breeds within the same species were found in animal hosts, yet to date, this has not been the case with SARS-Cov-2.
I do think this Coronavirus entered the human population in China and spread from there. With both SARS and MERS being found in animal hosts, Researchers would have a good idea where to look for the origins of this virus, but to date it has not been found. With what the world is today, until the origin can be solidly established, I leave it open as to where the first SARS-CoV-2 developed.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 23 2020 13:48 utc | 207

Curveball 2

It seems that the spirit of the destruction plot against Iraq incarnated into Bill Gates...with the little help of CIA / Mossad. Rumors say that Bill is already the secret (sponsor) boss of the WHO.
This time the goal is to destroy not only one (Iraq) enemy of Israel, but to lock down the whole world economy so that the almighty god of the chosen, which is the money printing machine, can buy up and enslave all other nations.

The new weapon of mass destruction (WMD) is an old but upcooked ideology of the SARS called SARS COVID 2
Antibodies or sequences of this old virus you can find easily in old people homes and on people with severe health conditions, or simply also on some people who catched a flu.

Of course, the strategy was to start the testing in Wuhan / China because the moneychanger do not like another strong competitor in their goal of world domination. Even to take down the American economy as a collateral damage was a calculated strategy.
They prefer to take down Donald Trump even when he satisfied almost every wish they had to establish the greater Israel project.

But after Trump did not bomb bomb bomb Iran....they thought how can we use the Samson option without using the nukes?
So they asked Bill Gates, the worldwide expert for depopulation, and also the big Pharma.
After Aids was such a success (300 billions for big pharma) they where prepared to set another big plot with the experience they already made with AIDS and SARS.
What they got is the strategy to make the strongest negative placebo ever.
A mass media mind control bomb (MMMCB)

And the test will trigger the panic & fear mind control bomb!

Almost all people who get tested "positive" will believe that now they have a deadly virus which affects their breathing. Even young people who did not have any previous diseases. Right now the nations have testing restrictions, but the spread of the test is growing and every health minister has to be political correct and order the tests and later for sure also "remedies" from big pharma.
Remember Tamiflu!!!

The virus by itself is actually harmless. People all over the world have already the antibodies, had already an immunity reaction to this virus.

"Don't get fooled by the mushroom lady's (camouflaged as Bill Gates) who want to sell you a vaccine to create antibodies which you already have"

The only epidemic we can see here is the spread of this tests! The theory that this SARS COVID-2 virus creates breathlessness and pulmonary fibrosis is an evil lie.

People who mistankenly believe that they have swallowed a deadly poison can create the same symptoms as described by SARS...breathlessness, and pulmonary fibrosis after a while.
This people can even die from such a negative placebo!

Posted by: Hempus | Mar 23 2020 14:18 utc | 208

According to the LA Times ( see link below), current and former Pentagon officials warn that the military is very limited in its ability to fight COVID-19. To some extent, the military can play a “supportive role” in the fight against COVID-19, but it can’t at all play a “direct, front-line role” in this fight against COVID-19. They say that their troops and medics are trained to treat battle-related injures, but they aren’t trained to treat anything infectious-related.

Well, I guess this means that if one of their battle victims gets some sort of infection, especially if it is highly contagious like the coronavirus is, they are either left to die or shipped to a civilian facility in order to receive treatment. This may explain the overall mindset of military when Charles Dunlap, a former Army major general and military lawyer, said “a significant military mobilization” to fight the coronavirus is a “bad idea.” He goes on to say that “ the military must remain focused on its most important job — waging war.”

Hopefully, this ex-military general either misspoke or the L A Times misquoted him. Or, perhaps he was being perfectly honest, which is more likely the case, IMO. The military truly is in the business of “waging wars.” Their business is to wage wars, not merely fight them. What’s worse, they aren’t even trying to hide that ugly and sinister fact. And given the fact that the vast majority of wars they are waging are against imaginary or made-up enemies around the globe, they aren’t merely waging wars, they are creating wars, and unnecessarily so. They have no interest in fighting real threats or enemies, (microscopic or otherwise), because that would mean that they might have to put themselves on the frontlines to fight against something that is likely to be much bigger, stronger and more powerful than themselves. No doubt that military types like former Army major general Charles Dunlap, (and I’m sure there are plenty more of them in the Pentagon), are showing their true colors: they are showing that they are nothing but a bunch of chickenhawks who roll up in a tight, closed-up little ball whenever a true threat comes their way.

Needless to say, there are a couple of other flaws his argument about how the military must play nothing more than a “supportive role” in the fight against the coronavirus. First of all, if the military can’t be anything more than “supportive” in the fight against the coronavirus, then the decision must be made to shift vast sums of the military budgets to HHS and the CDC. We are at war, and a very real one at that, and if the military doesn’t want to fight it, then give the money and the means to HHS and the CDC to fight it. Secondly, it is a total cop-out to claim that military medical personnel can’t be put on the frontlines to fight the coronavirus because they have not been given the proper training to do so. Medical personnel in the civilian population, (believe me I know as a civilian nurse doing direct care work on the frontlines), got at the very most 5 minutes of training on how to care for patients who have or are likely to have the coronavirus. If military medics can’t learn to do what their civilian counterparts can learn to do in no more than 5 minutes, then this is enough to justify shifting a sizable share of the military budget, including its personnel, to the civilian side of thing, which mainly includes HHS and the CDC.

Posted by: Cynthia, The First | Mar 23 2020 15:01 utc | 209

@Carciofi #205
The data in question is only for Washington State, as far as I understand it.
There might be data for overall US - but I haven't seen it.
The enormous variation you see is just some subset within the 2000 cases in Washington State (vs. the 54K+ cases overall in the US). If I am reading the page right, it is from 99 samples of the 2000...
This shows just how highly variable a single strand virus can be.
As for why there weren't more cases until recently: I am 85% sure it is a function of lack of testing. New York started doing mass testing - and now we're seeing an explosion in nCOV new cases there.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 23 2020 16:18 utc | 210

@Peter AU1 #206
We have no idea what a "proper" does should be for nCOV.
What I have seen is "safe" dosing for rheumatoid arthritis - the mechanism of change there is largely the same pH delta as for theoretical nCOV cell infection prevention. The recommended dosage for rheumatoid arthritis is 2-200mg hydroxychloroquine tablets per day or 1-250mg chloroquine phosphate tablet per day.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 23 2020 16:21 utc | 211

@Peter AU1 #207
Except bloodlines for domestic animals are planned; the nCOV variations are mutations that are viable.
As for the "original" virus - it may never be found. The feature which makes nCOV particularly dangerous is a mutation which enables the high transmission capability.
That could very well be a single mutation example for which the original donor is long since dead and eaten.../sarc

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 23 2020 16:24 utc | 212


No reason several strains of virus with desired features cannot be crossed to put desired features in the one unit. Read an article in The Conversation by a boffin whos area of expertises was looking into origins at the molecular level. He believes the SARS-CoV-2 virus come about through the merging of two strains, one from the pangolin which has some of the required features, and one string that still resides in bats that has the remainder of the desired features. He is looking at what host did these two strains use to recombine.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 23 2020 16:32 utc | 213

Posted by: Hempus | Mar 23 2020 14:18 utc | 208

The virus by itself is actually harmless. People all over the world have already the antibodies, had already an immunity reaction to this virus.


The only epidemic we can see here is the spread of this tests! The theory that this SARS COVID-2 virus creates breathlessness and pulmonary fibrosis is an evil lie.

while this all may be true, I find it a bit inappropriate to formulate it this way. We have the problem of cause and effect. If a person is already weakened and dependend on pharmaceutical medicines, its body may be overwhelmed by new influences such as microbes. And when the person dies, it is somehow logical to name the cause of the death 'virus' or any other microbe that can be found in the body. The death cause definition may be wrong in itself, but understandably logical according to our current state of knowledge in the West*.

Another problem is that we 'know' so much about illnesses, but don't know much about sanity. A sane body has countless microbes in it, and this sane body couldn't survive for a day without those 'bugs' as we call them.

I generally agree on the notion that microbes are effect, not cause, but when certain unknown microbes enter the organism, they may overload the system (organism). This is why the infection theory has some relevance. The infection theory is in itself wrong, it's a very materialistic and convenient theory, but there are cases, rather numerous, where the infection theory can be proven, although only partial.


* interestingly, other traditions of medicine have a different approach to illnesses. From what I gathered, the traditional Chinese medicine do not care about influences (because microbes were unknown at that time). It only cares about balance of the primary elements. Where the unbalance came from doesn't matter much, although the cure can be to get out of that filthy humid shelter and find a better place.

In the Indian tradition, Ayurveda, there is also, to my knowledge, no mention of infection. There, again, is it about balance of elements.

This may appear as primitive to our minds. We have evolved since ancient times. We now have microscopes. And more microscopes. And CAD and software to simulate events. Ancient traditions have no value anymore, we may think, because at that time they didn't have the knowledge we have now.

In my opinion, both traditions (the ancient tradition, the new science) have their place. Both are 'right', and both are not right in certain ways. As an alchemist, I try to see the entire picture, but fail to do so. But I learned a lot in the recent weeks, more that I wanted to because I'm not particularly interested in this matter.

Posted by: Phil | Mar 23 2020 16:56 utc | 214

c1ue 211

Easiest way would be to compare coronavirus in vito testing to malaria in vito testing. This would give a ball park figure. But I believe there would be papers out now on dose-time-virus numbers in practice. It has been used in a number of countries now to successfully treat coronavirus.
But I in most countries that have used or tested it, it is a backup drug if other antivirals are not effective in a particular case, or no other antiviral is available.

Malaria dosage I believe is 600mg chloroquine first day and 300 mg per day after that. I believe the Chinese doctors were giving that dosage and checking virus numbers. Chinese doctors recommended no more than five days on chloroquine

500mg chloroquine phosphate contains 300mg chloroquine

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 23 2020 17:18 utc | 215

Preventive dose for malaria is 300 mg once a week.
Tonic water "WARNING: Quinine Alkaloids can be toxic in high doses. Please do not exceed recommended dosages in parts per million when making your tonic syrup. As an example the US FDA and German authorities regulate that quinine be limited to between 83-85 parts per million (83-85 mg/L)."

3 liters of canned or bottled tonic water per week would get body levels close to a preventive level of quinine.
(Quinine I believe is same dosage rates as chloroquine)

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 23 2020 17:27 utc | 216

This is a concise and clear summary of the Wuhan timeline that debunks the idea that the Chinese govt initially covered up the outbreak. That disinformation is propagated by the NYT and US media.

No, China didn’t cover up the Covid-19 outbreak: An analysis

Posted by: occupatio | Mar 23 2020 17:33 utc | 217

Here seems to be some more ammo for the theory that Fort Detrick is involved because the symptoms are (said to be) similar to the mysterious vaping illness. The video: Anyway, it is not the Chinese that are selling this "conspiracy theory" here..

Posted by: Jonathan W | Mar 23 2020 17:45 utc | 218

Jonathan W "the symptoms are (said to be) similar to the mysterious vaping illness"

The slightest research into vaping pneumonia shows the above to be nothing more than an internet rumor that has no basis in facts.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 23 2020 17:51 utc | 219

@ Peter AU1 I accept that. But to stop it from circulating on the Internet what do I tell them?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Mar 23 2020 17:56 utc | 220

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 23 2020 2:27 utc | 201

"nCOV is 96% identical to Wuhan bat coronavirus, it is 99% identical to Wuhan bat coronavirus in pangolins. And pangolins are actually wild in the region Wuhan is in.
Lastly, the nCOV virus - while physically large, is only 30,000 nucleotides long.
A 99% match means only 300 nucleotides in the sequence are different."

not true- the 99% with the pangolin virus refers only a specific area and not the whole virus which is 90%

Posted by: LP | Mar 23 2020 17:59 utc | 221

Posted by: occupatio | Mar 23 2020 17:33 utc | 217

Thank you occupatio for the info. Additionally from your link find additional information: The Yank innitially wanna coup d'état the investigations. China knowing the evil empire ignore them instead Xi Jinping meet WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus in Beijing, arrange an international WHO team headed by Canadian's Dr. Bruce Alyward - WHO-China Joint Mission on COVID-19, Senior Advisor to the Director-General, World Health Organization, Geneva, Switzerland and Dr. Wannian Liang Team Lead WHO-China Joint Mission on COVID-19, Head of Expert Panel, National Health Commission.

Only two low ranking American's in the team:

Clifford LANE Clinical Director, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, US National Institutes
of Health, Bethesda, United States

Weigong ZHOU Medical Officer, Influenza Division, National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, United States

World Health Organization-China Joint Mission on Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Report, March 9, 2020

World Health Organization-China Joint Mission on Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Report Appendix A

Posted by: JC | Mar 23 2020 19:06 utc | 222

Jonathan W | Mar 23 2020 17:56 utc | 220

The simplest thing with internet rumors is to look into them and if there is no solid basis, do not spread them.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 23 2020 21:11 utc | 223

Phil | Mar 23 2020 16:56 utc | 214

Phil yes, it was a bit inappropriate to use "evil lie"..better would have been maybe refined lie? I never hat english instructions while in school so maybe I sound sometimes like a lumberjack. Anyway my fathers profession was lumberjack.

During my study I worked in an old people home, later in a hospital as a therapist. Afterwards as an independent breathing / physical therapist and I was always in hard competition with the institutionalized hospitals and the practice there. I had big success, but when the HIV causes Aids theory came up the competition turned into an open fight. A lot of my clients fell in this trap to make a HIV test. End of the eighties the HIV positive people had not been treated in a normal hospital. They where almost like in quarantine in a hospital only for HIV positive people. To some of my clients I have given treatment even in those was accepted because I had success. I worked also with my hands without gloves and I touched the whole patients body.

But now if I look to this covid-19 hysteria its impossible for me to work in a hospital where they treat covid-19 positive people with all this protective cloth. You cant directly touch a patient there and have no chance to "earth" them.

I have a kind of understanding that a virology nerd who got so much power and money from the society like after the AIDS fraud to get a bit megalomaniac.

But now what Bill Gates and the Event 201 openly showed as a strategy where big pharma, CIA, and "their media" blackmailed the WHO to declare a medical martial law over the whole world.... this has nothing to do with medical science...this is lobbyism.
This is like a big coup against hunanity...and yes, evil!

Posted by: Hempus | Mar 23 2020 23:20 utc | 224

thank you Hempus

Posted by: Phil | Mar 23 2020 23:44 utc | 225

@ Peter AU1

Yes, that is very good advice. I watched the video. Maybe the vaping illness does not ring a bell to most but it was in the news quite a lot a few months ago until it mysteriously disappeared and then we discovered this mysterious coronavirus, which has the same symptoms. I would be happier dismissing this "conspiracy" theory if they had found a proper explanation for what caused the vaping illness but they never did, the reason being the CDC was citing "national security concerns" which should be a red flag all by itself. This is all the more significant because the vaping illness, which is supposedly noncommunicable illness, first appeared in clusters (!) within a few miles from Fort Detrick, the biolab which was then shut down by the CDC for not following the proper containment protocols. So much for speculation. What we do know for a fact is that Fort Detrick was "researching" the coronavirus. If it was shut down for not following proper containment protocols it is not too much of a leap to suppose these two mysterious illnesses originated from Fort Detrick too. So if you put one and one together, I don't know what conclusion you expect me to arrive at. And you could go on and drag in the Event201 simulation last fall (as the video does), for which the justification was the painful experience the world had had with Ebola, which was another illness "researched" at Fort Detrick. What was not discussed in the video but I find quite significant is that Italy had reported the same kind of symptoms as early as November. The video does talk about ethnic bioweapones which supposedly targeted Iranians and since Italians share some genetic characteristics with the Iranians they ended up with the shitty end of the stick, but of that I am not so sure.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Mar 24 2020 0:28 utc | 226

Peter AU1 @216

I'm going to follow your advice. And I'm telling others about this as well.

But if you're right about 300mg, then 4 liters is better than 3.



Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 24 2020 0:48 utc | 227


You can by syrups, but look into quinine content an ensure the bitters or tonic water actually use quinine as the bittering agent. i believe there are a few that use others.

Wife was working in at the shopping center yesterday and this morning watery eyes like she is getting the cold. Started knocking up some tonic water and in the meantime she started looking up drug interactions ect as she has a pacemaker and is on a few drugs.
Didn't seem to be a problem with drug interactions, but quinine a big no no for people with bad heat rhythm. I had bought some bark awhile back just for this as she seems to pick up whatever is going around and it turns out she cant take it. Bit of a bummer that one.
Another 50 or so people confirmed with it yesterday in our state -first big jump in community spread and today she feels like she might be getting a cold....

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 24 2020 1:03 utc | 228

Jonathan W
From what I read, something to do with fine lipid oil droplets being inhaled and getting into the lungs. I would have to look it up again to be sure but I think they were able to isolate these lipids in the patients. But the main difference is the vaping pneumonia is a slow growing sometimes a chronic pneumonia whereas coronavirus pneumonia spreads through the lungs extremely fast.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 24 2020 1:10 utc | 229

Mike Pompeo Admits COVID-19 Is a “Live Exercise” ???
Trump Retorts “I Wish You Would Have Told Us” ???

Go to:

Posted by: kiwiklown | Mar 24 2020 10:56 utc | 230

@ kiviklown 230

That is interesting when you consider that Trump has been suggesting in his latest tweets ever so slightly that this is overblown and the cure may do more damage than the disease.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Mar 24 2020 11:42 utc | 231

Best to put the Pompeo shit into context. Easy enough to find.

Washington: US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo urged Beijing Friday to make details of the emergence of the novel coronavirus "available to the whole world" after accusing the communist regime of initially covering up the outbreak.
"The Chinese government was the first to know of this risk to the world. And that puts a special obligation to make sure that data gets to our scientists, our professionals," Pompeo told reporters at the White House.

"This is not about retribution," Pompeo said.

"We're in a live exercise here to get this right. We need to make sure that even today, the data sets that are available to every country, including data sets that are made available to the Chinese communist party, are made available to the whole world. It's an imperative to keep people safe."

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 24 2020 11:52 utc | 232

I am not convinced that just because the symptoms do not match 100% those of some other disease that may have appeared last fall it does not come from the same source because those may easily be accounted for by mutations which nobody denies are taking place. And to borrow an argument from a paper that blamed China for everything: as long as we don't know the origin (and we don't!) the likelier it is that it comes from a lab, which would point to this "oddball" theory about Fort Detrick, as it provides enough details and timelines to make the link plausible. The clusters that started to appear with the vaping illness may be due to some chemical but the point is: then again they may not, which we will probably never know judging by the way the world works.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Mar 24 2020 12:49 utc | 233

I m curious as to what is the unnamed country. any idea?
German army loses 6 million face masks at Nairobi airport
From CNN's Stephanie Halasz and Nadine Schmidt in Berlin

The German army has lost six million protective masks at the airport in Nairobi, Kenya, a spokesperson for the German Defense Ministry has told CNN.

The Defense Ministry — tasked by the country's Health Ministry with sourcing the masks — had ordered the masks from an unnamed commercial company. The German company had confirmed the order, with anticipated receipt by the Health Ministry in Germany, the spokesperson said.

The spokesperson did not know why the masks were lost in Nairobi and did not know where they were originally shipped from. No payment had yet been taken, as it was due on delivery.

Meanwhile, German company Qiagen, which produces diagnostic tests for Covid-19 that it says can give results in just one hour, began shipping tests on Tuesday to the US.

Thierry Bernard, Chief Executive Officer of Qiagen, said: “We are pleased to begin making QIAstat-Dx SARS-CoV-2 test kits available in the United States as the first syndromic test not only to detect SARS-CoV-2, but also a range of more than 20 other respiratory targets.
"This is an important step in our commitment to offer a range of solutions to support the public health fight against COVID-19 and dramatically ramp up production. Our teams have responded rapidly to the challenge, implementing 24/7 production of test components, adding staff and investing in expanding production capacity."

There have been 30,081 cases and 130 deaths recorded in Germany, according to Johns Hopkins University.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 24 2020 13:00 utc | 234

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 24 2020 11:52 utc | 232

Pompeo is pushing an agenda, gaslighting his listeners, insinuating Chinese "guilt" where none exists.

It is imperative that the US shares data sets made available to the US CDC concerning the vaping deaths of young Americans, especially so when other nations do not seem to have 'vaping deaths'.

It is also imperative that the US shares data sets that the US CDC Director said in Congressional testimony concerning those post mortems showing covid19 present in deaths "mistakenly" classified as caused by flu / pneumonia.

Given Pompeo's record with cattle manure, those will be minimal requests.

A klown I may be, but I ain't no gaslighter here.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Mar 24 2020 13:57 utc | 235

@ UNZ "Last Man Standing" and chatter at the bar, geewhiz, whaddya know@

Wally's mooted "agent Sam", and the "live exercise" (which is milspeak for a con job) is looking like a true sketch.

The Mark inside, in the instance, "Agent Sam" is the Mark Inside...and that's the Mark you cannot beat.

Now whoz on first?

A few days ago, Mike Pompeo phoned Yang Jiechi, Chinese State Councillor for Foreign Affairs. Pompeo’s counterpart is actually Foreign Minister Wang Yi and Yang is Wang’s boss, so Pompeo wanted to talk about something urgent and important.
Pompeo wanted the Chinese not to publicize what they had found.
Yang’s reply: “We await your solemn explanation, especially about Patient Zero.”

Now back t' da flour mill...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 24 2020 14:11 utc | 236


Easy to see the Trump admin's scheming in regards China. Never let a decent disaster go to waste.
I put up the full context as clickbait youtube channels are using a couple of words to pump another agenda and that's being repeated here..

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 24 2020 14:17 utc | 237

Due to the nature of the thing, I doubt there will be a smoking gun covered in lie cheat steal's fingerprints, but it would be good to be a fly on the wall in China.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 24 2020 14:22 utc | 238

With the added context, it becomes clear that Pompeo's slip occurred while he was pressing China to provide information that he argued China was holding back. With the "no retribution" bit it may have become too difficult even for Pompeo to juggle.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Mar 24 2020 14:23 utc | 239

Are you interested a lá other yankee-doodles?
Don't forget, I left-the-mess-40 yrs ago.

Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 24 2020 14:26 utc | 240

Look's like, I'm ...out-of-here.
Sorry *b*.
Seriously speaking, your reports are 1st-class.
The 'opinionated byproduct' however gives relatively few, points-of-knowledge which effect/affect my

I'm too old trying to help any, here, I guess.
I've got better things to do.
Let's forget about *wally-Walter*, who I thought would be the most pertinent regarding...old-dude's-opinions-Usa.
Everyone else from Usa, what do you think about the following:
I'm, interested in feedback.

The COVID-19 Coup - Powers & Principalities: Episode 143
as well as, A Symposium Series, by 2, let's call'em, everyday yankees @ *Powers & Principalities*
and here as well: thkelly67 - *Our Interesting Times*
Premiered 15 hours ago
Coronavirus: The Police State Perfect Storm w/ Whitney Webb


Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 24 2020 15:11 utc | 241

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