Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 06, 2020

Coronavirus - Bad Preparation And Propaganda Increase The Onsetting Panic

The current public reaction to the coronavirus pandemic confuses even propaganda specialists:

Blake News @blakehounshell - 1:19 UTC · 6 Mar 2020
I was looking at this timeline of the H1N1 pandemic put out by the CDC, and it’s way worse than I remembered. I don’t recall the same daily drumbeat of coverage but that was a different news environment. Or was I just not paying close attention?

The current Covid-19 panic was caused by seven weeks of daily anti-China propaganda as the international media abused the crisis to bash Chinese officials, citizens and their culture. H1N1 originated in the U.S. which utterly failed to contain it. It was therefore not propagandized.

China continues with its excellent efforts to get the epidemic under control.


Today China reported 143 new cases of confirmed infections and 102 new cases of suspected infections. But while the number of new cases within China continues to decline the Chinese government has to confront a new problem. What is it going to do to prevent newly imported cases?

On March 5, the Chinese mainland reported 16 new imported confirmed cases from overseas (11 in Gansu province, 4 in Beijing municipality, and 1 in Shanghai municipality). As of 24:00 on March 5, the Chinese mainland had reported 36 imported confirmed cases from overseas.

China criticized other countries when they closed their borders to people from China. It will find it difficult to tell others that they are not allowed to come.

Iran, Italy and South Korea now have more coronavirus cases per capita than China which has 0.006% per inhabitant. Iran has 0.059%, Italy has 0.063% cases per capita and in South Korea 0.014% of all inhabitants are infected. These numbers are likely to increase. They look very small but would explode if no serious measures were taken.

Covid-19 mainly hits older people. There were only few cases which involved children and there was doubt that children could be infected at all. But a new study suggests that children are as susceptible as adults. They just don't show strong symptoms. To really fight a coronavirus cluster in a local area thus requires to close all nearby schools down. This will unfortunately increase the social disruption.

The death rate in Italy confirms the trend that mostly elderly die from the disease (machine translation):

The average age of deceased and positive patients in Covid-2019 is 81 years, mostly men. They, in more than two thirds of cases, have three or more pre-existing pathologies.

This was confirmed by an analysis conducted by the Istituto Superiore di Sanità on 105 Italian patients who died up to 4 March.
The average age of the patients examined is 81 years, about 20 years higher than that of the patients who contracted the infection. There are 28 women (26.7%).

According to ISS data, 42.2% of the deaths are in the age group between 80 and 89 years. 32.4% were between 70 and 79, while 8.4% between 60 and 69, 2.8% between 50 and 59 and 14.1% over 90 years.

Only managers of pension funds will like those numbers.

The general death rate estimates for nCov19 infections have been lowered a bit. Right after the first outbreak in Wuhan city it had the highest death rate with some 14% of all cases. That number decreased strongly as the city received the resources it needed. It is now near three percent. The death rate in China outside of Hubai province is about 0.7%. If there is a significant number of symptomless infections the real number will be even lower.

The biggest danger then is the lack of capacity in medical institutions. China was able to quickly build new hospitals in Wuhan and it moved 40,000 health workers from outside the city to Wuhan to help with the epidemic.

The U.S. and European countries are unlikely to be able to make similar efforts if an outbreak widens. That is why they must immediately react to new clusters and prevent those from growing further. Testing must become widely available and it must be for free. Otherwise cases will continue to linger in certain communities and then suddenly lead to wider outbreaks. This is not the way to beat an epidemic:

Through interviews with dozens of public-health officials and a survey of local data from across the country, The Atlantic could only verify that 1,895 people have been tested for the coronavirus in the United States, about 10 percent of whom have tested positive. And while the American capacity to test for the coronavirus has ramped up significantly over the past few days, local officials can still test only several thousand people a day, not the tens or hundreds of thousands indicated by the White House’s promises.

Even U.S. nurses who had contact with corona patients have trouble to get tested.

Some Iranian officials started to take the outbreak seriously only after several of their colleagues fell ill. It seems that the current White House resident has a similar mentality. He will only start a serious effort after people near to him test positive or fall ill. Trump requested only $2.5 billion from Congress to fight the epidemic. The Senate then passes a $8.3 billion spending bill for coronavirus related issues. That is still not enough and more urgent legislative measures must be taken.

Trump is best advised to just shut up and let the professionals do their job. Politicizing the epidemic will only raise distrust in the official statements:

When Vice President Mike Pence directed scientists to clear messages with the White House, he got it exactly backwards: The political class should clear health messages with trusted scientists at the CDC and NIH.

The global economic shock the epidemic was expected to cause is setting in. Airlines get hammered as more and more people decline to travel:

The shares of the top seven US airlines reacted sharply today, with drops as of mid-afternoon ranging from -6.8% for Delta to -16% for Spirit Airlines, which is now down 49% since January 17 before the coronavirus threatened the travel industry.
The IATA’s new estimates see a spectrum between two scenarios for 2020:
  • In the “limited spread” scenario, where the virus is “contained in the current markets with over 100 cases as of March 2,” global passenger revenues would take a $63-billion hit, or 11% of revenues in 2020.
  • In the “extensive spread” scenario, where the virus is in “all markets that currently have 10 or more confirmed COVID-19 cases as of 2 March,” and “with a broader spreading” of the virus, global passenger revenues would take a $113-billion hit, or 19% of revenues in 2020.

Several large airlines will go bankrupt and thousands of people will lose their jobs.

The panic around the epidemic creates a demand shock in two different ways. Some products are suddenly in high demand and shortages appear as people are hoarding toilet paper and masks. On the other side spending on restaurant visits and vacations will evaporate. There will also be supply shortages as companies with infected workers, especially in China, have shut down.

All this creates disruptions and economic losses for companies and for many, many individuals.

Some companies are doing the right things. As there is an outbreak in Seattle Microsoft has told its employees who can work from home to do so. But there are also hourly workers who work for vendors and who staff its on-campus cafes. Microsoft promises to take care of them:

We recognize the hardship that lost work can mean for hourly employees. As a result, we’ve decided that Microsoft will continue to pay all our vendor hourly service providers their regular pay during this period of reduced service needs. This is independent of whether their full services are needed. This will ensure that, in Puget Sound for example, the 4,500 hourly employees who work in our facilities will continue to receive their regular wages even if their work hours are reduced.

Such sanity should be more widespread.

Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the issue:

Posted by b on March 6, 2020 at 18:55 UTC | Permalink

« previous page

@H.Schmatz 199

If you seriously believe that what happens in Chicago stays in Chicago and what happens in China stays in China or that local pollution in Chicago has changed more in a few weeks than in past 60 years we need to award you a special prize.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 8 2020 13:23 utc | 201

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 8 2020 13:23 utc | 202

Well just wait until Fukushima comes knocking on the US door. My bet it already "entered" but as usual it is not Big News.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 8 2020 13:25 utc | 202

>Only managers of pension funds will like those numbers.

As long as this beast does not mutate and target a younger population in future waves (see spanish flu).

Posted by: belle delphine | Mar 8 2020 13:48 utc | 203

Posted by: belle delphine | Mar 8 2020 13:48 utc | 204
Once you get it (whether there is illness or not) it is part of that persons flora of viruses. As it was explained by Dr. Paul Cottrell on YT, it does not disappear.

Given this new, uncertain phase, I decided to go back to some of the same virologists, immunologists, and epidemiologists (and a few new ones) with my question: How does this outbreak end?

The most uncomfortable answer they gave is the possibility that Covid-19 keeps spreading at a high rate and becomes endemic — regularly infecting humans, like the common cold.

“Without an effective vaccine, I don’t know how this ends before millions of infections,” Nathan Grubaugh, an epidemiologist at the Yale School of Public Health, says.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 8 2020 14:13 utc | 204

Cuomo declares state of emergency as NY coronavirus cases rise to 89

But don't worry, Newyorkers! You are home to the New York Times! Free press will save you from the virus!


Coronavirus outbreak: Italy locks down 5 regions in north, quarantines 16mn

Here's my hypothesis: the virulent attacks by the western MSM on China's "authoritarian", "draconic" methods compelled the Western governments from making the necessary preparations for the coming epidemic. That made the Chinese efforts to give them an extra month essentially useless.

That means, ironically, that free press and freedom of speech actually did the opposite it promised to do: it threw the red carpet for the COVID-19 to freely infect the Western countries.

This also throws light over the fact that the free press, in a capitalist system, essentially plays the role of the "fourth power": it act systematically to protect, by molding "public opinion", the existence of the capitalist system. This will create a vicious cycle, where the more a governments acts to contain the epidemic, the more virulent the attacks from the free press will be, which will impel said governments to losen the quarantine, which will spread the epidemic even further, which will make the attacks from the free press to the government even more virulent, which will impel it to go back to the "draconic" measures and reset the cycle on a worst scenario (downward spiral movement).

Posted by: vk | Mar 8 2020 14:29 utc | 205

I suppose the US Carrier Strike Groups sailing now will be like the Diamond Princess, a petri dish but bigger and with more people inside, they should be banned to entry in any port in the world outside the USA.

There is a risk for the world due to the inefficient health care system in the USA, a lot of people, civilian, but also many soldiers, could infect the world even after the pandemic is contained in a lot of countries. It seems that the private health care system in USA is totally unprepared to tackle this epidemic, and this governmente prefer "laissez-fair". 30 millions uninsured, and many millions illegal migrants, all without access to the medical facilities in the midst of a pandemic is not a good symptom.

It could explode.

Posted by: DFC | Mar 8 2020 14:30 utc | 206

Posted by: DFC | Mar 8 2020 14:30 utc | 207
Don't forget the coming of the 30,000 US soldiers to Europe to play soldier. How many of them will have THE "flu".

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 8 2020 14:37 utc | 207

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 8 2020 12:54 utc | 199

curious comment indeed. Thanks for the alert.
smack, smack

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 8 2020 3:17 utc | 186

Global dimming? Meaning what exactly? Murky sky? Orion hidden behind clouds? No? If not what exactly are you trying to tell.

I may have read about one or the other occasionally looking red. Never had a chance to see that. I do need instruments beyond my eyes for that? All I ever noticed is one occasionally looks dimmer from my position. Blinking, visible, there, gone again. Either that or almost invisible. Was it Betelgeuse occasionally? Doesn't seem. Looked like Saiph was having troubles to get himself clearly visble for me lately. Vaguely appearing fading again.

Maybe that's why I pondered if Saiph was the one expected to turn into a supernova. Could it be Betelgeuse?

Posted by: moon | Mar 8 2020 14:47 utc | 208

Carnival Cruises = Walmart or a Hyundai
Royal Caribbean = Neiman Marcus or a Lexus

There is a reason you can take some Carnival Cruise’s for around 200$ but can’t step foot on Royal Caribbean for less than 600$.

Also, I haven’t read confirmation about reinfection rather that person(s) produced a false negative and were not clear because the virus was being, in layman’s terms, sneaky. But what do any of us know really? All we are doing is reading articles other people wrote and surmising our own conclusions. I could very well have it right now. Been sick with all the symptoms (I have a brutal headache, runny nose, cough, aches, tired, and had a fever) but the only way I’ll know is if they test me for antibodies. I’m not sick enough to require medical care. Knock on wood I never have been and hope I never will be. I went to the doctor once in the the last 20 years for help with bronchitis that wouldn’t go away after five days and I got a steroid and all was good. Even when I had the H3N2 a few years back, I had a fever for 8 hours and then it was gone and all was good. It all depends I think in how your body reacts to viruses and bacteria. Some people always get sick/have symptoms where some people like me are really sick for a day or so (maybe a bit longer if something stubborn digs in) and then feel fine. All I know is it’s madness no matter where you go and it’s enough to make you lose your wits if you’re not careful.

Posted by: Syd | Mar 8 2020 15:05 utc | 209

Syd: garlic tea; thyme or oregano tea, ginger, orange juice, hot water plus lemon... the least you can do + aspirin. Good luck!

Posted by: Mina | Mar 8 2020 15:36 utc | 210

Posted by: Syd | Mar 8 2020 15:05 utc | 210

If I was you I would sit tight because even if you have it your immune system can fight it. I don't know where my comments here are but in one I put down my list of anti-viral herbal remedies that can HELP fight bad bugs. Google "anti-viral natural".
Liquorice is another as it has tannins which is an anti-viral compound.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 8 2020 15:52 utc | 211

Syd@ 210

Here's my little remedy....which I develped for myself once when I had shingles...It seemed to help then and I find it still useful as a healing meal...some people think it tastes too yucky though ;-)

One soft boiled egg (preferably free range, omega 3 rich)
Stir in all the herbs! that are reputed to be powerful antioxidants and one clove minced raw garlic, some thyme, oregano, marjoram and turmeric
The egg has preformed vitamin A that helps replenish stores used up by infection and protects mucous membranes. The fat in the egg can help with absorption of some of the fat soluble phytochemical in the herbs.....
Making it a nice compliment to Mina's herbal teas ;-)

Posted by: Bluemot5 | Mar 8 2020 16:05 utc | 212

Posted by: Bluemot5 | Mar 8 2020 16:05 utc | 213

I like the idea of "put it all in". I'm doing something like this for the next flue season but in this form.

1) Star anise
2) Liquorice root
3) Absolute Vodka

to make a version of this,

For sipping when flue comes around.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 8 2020 16:23 utc | 213

« Saudi Arabia - As New Budget Problems Arise The Clown Prince Arrests More Family | Main
March 08, 2020
The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-18
Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

Mar 3 - Syria - Another Short Note On The Recent Developments
Mar 5 - Syria - Another Ceasefire In Idleb - Erdogan Loses On All Points
Mar 4 - U.S. Breaks Its Just Signed Agreement With The Taliban
Mar 5 - Where Are The Skripals?
Mar 6 - Coronavirus - Bad Preparation And Propaganda Increase The Onsetting Panic
Coping with a Megadisaster: Katrina and Coronavirus - Peter Lee
Momento Mori – Unpopular Thoughts on Corona Virus - Craig Murray
Coronavirus: quarter of Italy's population put in quarantine as virus reaches Washington DC
The U.S. decided to run along the red curve while China, with less than 100 new cases today, has moved from the red to the blue curve.

> The effective reproductive number [in Wuhan] dropped from 3.86 (95% credible interval 3.74 to 3.97) before interventions to 0.32 (0.28 to 0.37) post interventions. <

Mar 7 - Saudi Arabia - As New Budget Problems Arise The Clown Prince Arrests More Family
Roundup of Saudi Royals Expands With Detention of a 4th Prince - NYT
Putin Dumps MBS to Start a War on America’s Shale Oil Industry - Bloomberg
Saudis Plan Big Oil Output Hike, Beginning All-Out Price War - Bloomberg
The country that will be most hurt by this is Iraq.
Other issues:

Inside the World Uyghur Congress: The US-backed right-wing regime change network seeking the ‘fall of China’ - Grayzone

Erik Prince Recruits Ex-Spies to Help Infiltrate Liberal Groups - NY Times

Thousands of U.S. Areas Afflicted with Lead Poisoning beyond Flint's - Scientific American

SUVs and Pickup Trucks Are Now Too Big For Our Already Gigantic Garages - Vice

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on March 8, 2020 at 14:22 UTC | Permalink

Craig Murray: Julian Assange Hearing – Your Help Wanted.

Posted by: S | Mar 8 2020 14:47 utc | 1

Colombia Reports: Calls for President Ivan Duque to resign grew louder on Friday as Colombia was bombarded with evidence of the close ties between his party, the security forces and the mafia. The scandal has stunned Duque and his political patron, former President Alvaro Uribe, who used mafia associates to rig the 2018 election, according to mounting evidence.

El Salvador Perspectives: In the first week of March, experts from the Attorney General’s office will resume digging a trench in the middle of the campus of the University of El Salvador—the largest and only public university of the country—searching for the bodies of students who were assassinated in the beginning of the war.

NYT: Guyana: The discovery of a wealth of oil in the tiny country, one of the poorest in South America, has deepened ethnic divisions and exacerbated tensions during a crucial election.

MercoPress: A research by Argentine investigator Pedro Filipuzzi revealed a list of 12,000 Nazis in Argentina that apparently have money in accounts at the Zurich-based Credit Suisse investment bank, the Simon Wiesenthal Center said in a statement.

Posted by: Maracatu | Mar 8 2020 15:05 utc | 2

New developments in the OPCW Douma fraud story:
Time to Hear Both Sides. A and B respond to the OPCW's attacks on them - the Full Rebuttal (Peter Hitchens’s blog at Mail Online, 29 February 2020)

Exclusive: OPCW whistleblowers confront leadership’s attacks, cover-up of Douma deception (The Grayzone, 5 March 2020)
Posted by: S | Mar 8 2020 15:06 utc | 3

Momento Mori" by Craig Murray

Sadly, Craig ignores the real problem: that Western governments haven't adequately prepared despite having had time to (as b illustrates with the graphic in the post). Craig's comment effectively excuses Western governments. IMO the lack of preparation may rise to criminal negligence and if the lax response is (as Craig suggests) because the threat is mostly to the elderly then it is also elder abuse.

If some capitalist said outright that the elderly cost too much and we should get rid of 'em, they would be rebuked. But if the government throws them under the virus bus, then we all watch silently as they die a "natural death"?


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 8 2020 15:33 utc | 4

Lebanon will default for the first time in its history

Posted by: vk | Mar 8 2020 15:43 utc | 5

Bentley's Thesis is that the virus is part of a larger campaign, a deliberate part. I mooted this before, but assume it's interesting and that readers are like myself, not entirely thorough. Bentley's essay > "Donbass and Syria – A Perfect Storm Approaching?" attempts to tie the entire global "battle-space" into a coherent explanation that's not very nice... Wally thinks he's probably about right. see" fort-russ [dot] com

If Bentley's right the adequate preparation exists, but it's not what people think it means.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 8 2020 15:50 utc | 6

Meanwhile in Iraq...

Secretary of #Iran’s SNSC Shamkhani has landed in Iraq for a meeting with chief of #Iraq’s intelligence service. Maybe the countdown for expelling the US from the region has started

Posted by: ARN | Mar 8 2020 15:58 utc | 7

Posted by: Walter | Mar 8 2020 15:50 utc | 6
Well I bit and had a look.

If my hypothesis is correct, the US will be able to use proxy troops (Turkish and Ukrainian) to do the hard fighting while maintaining some political distance, but still dealing multiple major political and military blows to Russia.
Huuumm, I think not but will see. The Project for the New American Century is in full gear. If I could read it I have no doubt the "right people" have read it also. The only question that remains is , Will it work ?
Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 8 2020 16:10 utc | 8

Tom_LX | Mar 8 2020 16:10 utc | 8

Yeah. Bentley's sorta "paranoid"...people get that way in a combat zone... I see that, right or wrong, it looks plausible, and thus liable to look that way to Putin's Government. Still, it ties together. Recall too that he's an Officer in a foreign Militia - and an "information officer" - so propaganda agent - one might bear in mind both that he's hearing things through the grapevine, and also that he represents an agenda and sometimes is obliged to say things that he might not believe.

That plausibility may then incline them to act according to the Thesis...

That may mean "shoot first", it may mean all sorts of unintended secondary effects.

Bentley has been saying for some time that there's a show-down scheduled for April...not he say April-May. The elements sure seem to be coming together for such a situation.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 8 2020 16:23 utc | 9

Posted by: Walter | Mar 8 2020 16:23 utc | 9

The elements sure seem to be coming together for such a situation.

Yes, I get the sense that things are accelerating on all fronts all over the Globe. Covid-19 on Chinese New Years just smell so "Neocon" (or their agents) that nothing else makes sense to me to explain it.
Rebuilding Americas Defenses
by Project for the New American Century/Foreign Policy Initiative/

where we find,
And advanced forms of biological warfare
that can “target” specific genotypes may
transform biological warfare from the realm
of terror to a politically useful tool.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 8 2020 16:31 utc | 10

Tom_LX | Mar 8 2020 16:31 utc | 10 PNAC Yes, and it's been policy since Korea 1952 and the take-over of the Japanese biowar program, according to tons of evidence, mostly public.

As to the global (apparent) campaign> Sleboda's twitter show Turks are still invading Syria...with video.

Mark Sleboda
The Erdogan regime's invasion & occupation of #Syria continues, under cover of the latest "ceasefire"
Quote Tweet
Mohamad Rasheed محمد رشيد
· 3h
A large Turkish military convoy entered via the "Kafar Lousin" crossing towards the depth of Idlib. This was the third convoy to enter today.
#Syria #Idlib

Posted by: Walter | Mar 8 2020 16:41 utc | 11

Let's add cinnamon to the mix. Drinking a lot is always recommended (even by real doctors and not just by grandmas).
In the world of real docs, some have mentioned Quercetine (found in onion and garlic and a number of other veggies) and an anti-malaria medicine you can find at the chemist, but which has awful side effects.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 8 2020 16:51 utc | 214

U.S. National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza: Implementation Plan (2006), prepared under the W. Bush administration.

Posted by: Imagine | Mar 8 2020 17:31 utc | 215

My father's recipe for the flu:
large lemon
2 tablespoons of honey
1 to 2 shots of whiskey (only whiskey, never rum)
large glass mug

cut the lemon into large chunks
put in sauce pan in water enough to cover lemon plus three fingers more, bring to a boil
remove lemon pieces when the rind is soft
pour hot water into mug
add 2 pieces of lemon, squeeze lemon juice from the rest into muf
add two tablespoons of honey
add one to two shots of whiskey

get into bed, use four blankets, wrap head in a large towel
drink all of the liquid in its entirety, sleep.
And you will sleep:)

Based on experience, when you wake up you will be drenched in sweat and any fever will be broken.
Take a hot shower, change bed, get back in, have tea and toast. Sleep.

It worked for my family for the flu or any heavy cold accompanied by a fever. When I don't do this any cold stays on for a week, this brings it down to three days tops for me.

Posted by: frances | Mar 8 2020 18:24 utc | 216

I think it would be true to say that virus fear is being used for political and economic purposes in all regions which it impacts. It is encumbant on the administration to gain control of perception and reality. Is partly caused by political environment but also caused by mass media has lost all credibility and sense of responsibility and this seems to work for some.

Posted by: jared | Mar 8 2020 18:45 utc | 217

Posted by: vk | Mar 8 2020 14:29 utc | 206

But don't worry, Newyorkers! You are home to the New York Times! Free press will save you from the virus!

Excellent comment!!

While we reading less - in HK the rioters (protesters) screaming earlier ”Revolution of Our Time. Five Demands, Not One Less"no more rioting on the streets but in hiding, Hong Kong police arrested publishing tycoon Jimmy Lai and most likely jails terms. Also, yesterday 17 people arrested in explosive cases earlier.

Yea, MAGA, democracy, freedom of speech winning....huh? Superman Trump still campaigns for votes, shake hands, kisses, photos etc... this will further speed up Covid-19 in America.... Dumb stupid Americans... whether Sanders, Biden or Trump we are in really really In hot soup.....

Posted by: JC | Mar 8 2020 19:19 utc | 218

Something in the South Korean statistics is strange, I mean the percentage of people recovered...

Here are the statistics at today 19:55 GMT:

Total Nº cases 7.313
Nº Deaths 50
Rate deaths/total cases 0,68%
Nº recovered 130
Nº Serious-critical condition 36
Rate serious-crit/total 0,49%
Rate recovered/total 1,78%
Rate serious-crit/active cases 0,50%
Rate deaths/(deaths+recovered) 27,78%

The percentage of people recovered is extremely low (1,78%) compare, for example with Italy and many other countries that report the epidemic later than SK. Where are those people from more than 1 month? May be there is some cover-up here to have less deaths and avoid panic-lockdown-low GDP?

As far as I know in SK there are no lockdown in any part of the country and the factories are working at full speed, not like China or Italy.
To maintain this is very important to report a low death rate, but the blow-back could be interesting...So may be the causation is inverse: it is due to the low under estimation of death that the lockdown are not necessary, and it is not because the death rate is low that they do not need lockdown.

Something stinks in SK

Posted by: DFC | Mar 8 2020 20:36 utc | 219

It is absolutely not true that vaccines cause autism. That is an internet myth that has been debunked. There is no good science linking vaccines to autism. As to the measles vaccine, doesn't it matter that it would save the lives of 500 kids?

Posted by: Carolyn | Mar 8 2020 13:08 utc | 200
I'm sorry- did you say Madeleine Albright and KIDS in the same sentence?

Pending on what side of reality you perceive-
9/11 was "debunked"
JFK "debunked" etfuckinc

For those who have not been fully brainwashed, propagandized and Indoctrinated (Western medicine cough cough) and can actually apply critical thinking vs. believing what your are told as it fits your personal narrative- concensus reality and delusional narcissism (the true disease of the West). You Fail.

Posted by: CitizenX | Mar 8 2020 20:51 utc | 220

I wonder if we will see a correlation between the number of dead in Italy and the effect of gluten on people's immune system. Pasta diet is probably one of the highest in gluten ever found.
A good recap of natural anti-virals at the end of this article

Posted by: Mina | Mar 8 2020 21:06 utc | 221

@NemesisCalling #185
Not just Mr. Science, Mr Statistics.
One of the biggest fallacies shared by most anti-vaxxers is their failure to understand statistics.
A vaccine would ideally prevent disease, but they don't all do that (and it isn't possible for all diseases).
However, what a vaccine really does - if it can't outright prevent a disease - is:
1) Make it harder for the disease to spread
2) Reduce the impact on those who do get it

What I find absolutely fascinating is how anti-vaxxers are utterly dismissing how nCOV showing that "modern medical practices" are not the major factor with disease.
If modern society has these "modern medical practices" - why is nCOV spreading all over the world, including in Europe/US/1st world?
That's because in reality, the "modern medical practices" aren't employed unless necessary: quarantines, connectivity tracing, mass testing, etc.

The argument is over.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 8 2020 22:20 utc | 222

@Krollchem #189
I'd be terrified to see any type of "nano-particle" being used widely.
Talk about something which is completely unproven in benefit and even more risky in potentially causing harm...

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 8 2020 22:23 utc | 223

@Pft #194
We've had this numbers discussion before.
Among the problems: smaller population, poorer reporting - particularly among poor people/regions.
Equally problematic is the assertion of harm on the vaccine side - I've waded through literally hundreds of links and articles and have yet to see anything remotely credible.
The most damning? A search through historical data shows the entire anti-vax phenomenon took off only after that scumbag Andrew Wakefield published his faked data Lancet article in 1998.
That bastard lives in Texas now and continues to prey on the gullible.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 8 2020 22:28 utc | 224

thanks krollchem for your comment

Posted by: Quintus | Mar 8 2020 23:42 utc | 225


I dont have the time to discuss Wakefield much but nobody ever discredited his data (along with 12 other scientists). Him and another scientist were charged with dubious procedural and ethical violations. The other scientist facing a similar charge was able to contest the verdict and won. Wakefield who faced similar charges didn't have insurance to cover his defense so his license was not reinstated, and the paper was retracted. These journals rely on Big Pharma for advertising so they retract studies like Wakefields but don’t retract other studies like the CDC study which Dr Thompson alleged was fraudulent as it deleted data sets showing an association with vaccines and autism in black children.

As for the lack of credibility among those who speak out. RFK Jr is one

Good article from his blog (broken link with space)


Dr Bernadine was a member of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology and served as director of the National Institutes of Health and president and CEO of the American Red Cross.

She spoke out against vaccines before her death. Pretty credible I thought. Lots of stuff here (i broke the link with spaces)



The problem with scientists and doctors speaking out is the mobsters behind the Pharma Industrial Complex. During the Vioxx scandal emails by Merck executives called for seeking out and destroying Doctors who spoke out and reported adverse effects. Merck got hammered on that but CDC Director steamrolled their HPV vaccine to make up for the loss. She has made millions at Merck after leaving CDC. Wakefield was destroyed though, and an example of what happens to those who endanger Big Pharma. Many went underground after that and changed their research focus. Merck whistleblowers on Mercks alleged mump fraud require protection, and MSM and altmedia offers protection for Big Pharma by ignoring them and the court case. So whistleblowers will be a rare occurrence going forward.

We also have the 2000 the Simpsonwood Conference. This was held for the top vaccine experts to discuss what to do about disturbing findings of Dr Verstraeten from the CDC who analyzed thimerosal containing vaccines and autism data from the Vaccine Safety Datalink

At the Simpsonwood conference Verstraeten was criticized for doing the study as he should have known he would find an association between autism and thimerosal. Dont Look, Dont Find.

In 2001, one year after Verstraeten shared his VSD-based thimerosal findings at the Simpsonwood Conference. CDC outsourced VSD management and coordination to a private company—America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP)—giving AHIP responsibility for maintaining the “strategic direction” of VSD projects. Although the CDC claims that it “tries to accommodate” requests from independent investigators to use VSD data, in practice, AHIP’s private control has made the data virtually impenetrable to anyone other than CDC- and HMO-approved researchers.

Verstraeten eventually published his findings after extensive massage to remove the disturbing findings. He denies he “watered down” the original results to become neutral in that after the Simpson Conference what was then a clear association could now neither be confirmed nor refuted, and would require more more study.

Honestly speaking, you should be questioning the credibility of CDC, FDA, NIH . Revolving door to and from Big Pharma. The conflict of interest is incredible.

Dr Suzanne Humphries has credibility IMO . She mentioned in her autobiography about how CDC kept calling in disbelief when she kept filing adverse event reports following vaccines , asking why she was reporting them. Apparently its not encouraged.

Posted by: Pft | Mar 9 2020 1:47 utc | 226


Sorry. The link was for a powerful anti-viral and anti-bacterial that sanitizes and can be used for oral health. The anti-viral being tried is remdesivir. There are several other non-vaccines also being used successfully that I posted earlier.

You do realize that vaccines generally contain the organic mercury compound thimerosal which is one of the most toxic substances known to man?

Posted by: Krollchem | Mar 9 2020 1:55 utc | 227

@226 pft

With apologies to b for hijacking the corona thread and turning it into a vaccine debate,...

I want to thank you for reminding us all about Dr. Bernadine's testimony and research on the "sadly, still" open question of vaccine safety.

She is obviously a brilliant mind and if our gov't had more of her type in the upper ranks we would be in a lot better shape.


What I wanted to point out is that during her interview with Sheryl Atkinson, she makes the statement that..."the reason that we (vaccine makers, testers, CDC, etc.) do not seek out studies that might possibly show succestibility to adverse effects from vaccines in specific subsets is because, if those vulnerable subsets were discovered, it would throw doubt onto the whole vaccine enterprise."

She says this but also refutes the notion that the public would broadly condemn all vaccines if some subsets of people were found vulnerable to severe adverse reactions. She gives the public a lot of credit in this regard.

And then a light bulb went off...

It reminds me of the Catholic Church shooting themselves in the foot when hiding known child rapists in their midst, shuffling them around to different parishes, paying off families, etc., because they felt:

1) they could make the problem go away...and

2) if knowledge got out, it would ruin careers and bankrupt local dioceses as well as the image of the Catholic Church.

What they SHOULD have thought about long before they decided to willfully obscure the truth, or, in the medical industry, not seeking, not finding, is that the truth will come out eventually and you will look far far worse by many orders of magnitude.

Which leads one to conclude that our leaders are never as smart as we like to believe that they are and that, like children, they must figure out at a very young age in their position that it is best to lay it out right then and there or risk compounding calamity on yourself and what you represent.

I feel that the CDC, NIH, etc. Made their bed a long, long time ago.

And they chose...poorly.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Mar 9 2020 4:18 utc | 228

Posted by: jared | Mar 8 2020 18:45 utc | 217

I think it would be true to say that virus fear is being used for political and economic purposes in all regions which it impacts.

Bill's on top of it,

"Bill Gates-funded program will soon offer home-testing kits for new coronavirus

Sun Mar 8th, 2020 1:05pm"

Foolish people are saying, "Oh great. Good to see he is helping."
What they don't realize is that the taxpayers WILL PAY.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 9 2020 12:25 utc | 229

Hmm,... exposure to 5G 60Ghz RF radiation sickness excact same symptoms as Covid-19.??

Posted by: Hannibal | Mar 11 2020 20:06 utc | 230

Are you an agent of China?
Are you insane?
Are you evil?

Posted by: niceguy | Mar 14 2020 17:53 utc | 231

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