Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 06, 2020

Coronavirus - Bad Preparation And Propaganda Increase The Onsetting Panic

The current public reaction to the coronavirus pandemic confuses even propaganda specialists:

Blake News @blakehounshell - 1:19 UTC · 6 Mar 2020
I was looking at this timeline of the H1N1 pandemic put out by the CDC, and it’s way worse than I remembered. I don’t recall the same daily drumbeat of coverage but that was a different news environment. Or was I just not paying close attention?

The current Covid-19 panic was caused by seven weeks of daily anti-China propaganda as the international media abused the crisis to bash Chinese officials, citizens and their culture. H1N1 originated in the U.S. which utterly failed to contain it. It was therefore not propagandized.

China continues with its excellent efforts to get the epidemic under control.


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Today China reported 143 new cases of confirmed infections and 102 new cases of suspected infections. But while the number of new cases within China continues to decline the Chinese government has to confront a new problem. What is it going to do to prevent newly imported cases?

On March 5, the Chinese mainland reported 16 new imported confirmed cases from overseas (11 in Gansu province, 4 in Beijing municipality, and 1 in Shanghai municipality). As of 24:00 on March 5, the Chinese mainland had reported 36 imported confirmed cases from overseas.

China criticized other countries when they closed their borders to people from China. It will find it difficult to tell others that they are not allowed to come.

Iran, Italy and South Korea now have more coronavirus cases per capita than China which has 0.006% per inhabitant. Iran has 0.059%, Italy has 0.063% cases per capita and in South Korea 0.014% of all inhabitants are infected. These numbers are likely to increase. They look very small but would explode if no serious measures were taken.

Covid-19 mainly hits older people. There were only few cases which involved children and there was doubt that children could be infected at all. But a new study suggests that children are as susceptible as adults. They just don't show strong symptoms. To really fight a coronavirus cluster in a local area thus requires to close all nearby schools down. This will unfortunately increase the social disruption.

The death rate in Italy confirms the trend that mostly elderly die from the disease (machine translation):

The average age of deceased and positive patients in Covid-2019 is 81 years, mostly men. They, in more than two thirds of cases, have three or more pre-existing pathologies.

This was confirmed by an analysis conducted by the Istituto Superiore di Sanità on 105 Italian patients who died up to 4 March.
...
The average age of the patients examined is 81 years, about 20 years higher than that of the patients who contracted the infection. There are 28 women (26.7%).

According to ISS data, 42.2% of the deaths are in the age group between 80 and 89 years. 32.4% were between 70 and 79, while 8.4% between 60 and 69, 2.8% between 50 and 59 and 14.1% over 90 years.

Only managers of pension funds will like those numbers.

The general death rate estimates for nCov19 infections have been lowered a bit. Right after the first outbreak in Wuhan city it had the highest death rate with some 14% of all cases. That number decreased strongly as the city received the resources it needed. It is now near three percent. The death rate in China outside of Hubai province is about 0.7%. If there is a significant number of symptomless infections the real number will be even lower.

The biggest danger then is the lack of capacity in medical institutions. China was able to quickly build new hospitals in Wuhan and it moved 40,000 health workers from outside the city to Wuhan to help with the epidemic.

The U.S. and European countries are unlikely to be able to make similar efforts if an outbreak widens. That is why they must immediately react to new clusters and prevent those from growing further. Testing must become widely available and it must be for free. Otherwise cases will continue to linger in certain communities and then suddenly lead to wider outbreaks. This is not the way to beat an epidemic:

Through interviews with dozens of public-health officials and a survey of local data from across the country, The Atlantic could only verify that 1,895 people have been tested for the coronavirus in the United States, about 10 percent of whom have tested positive. And while the American capacity to test for the coronavirus has ramped up significantly over the past few days, local officials can still test only several thousand people a day, not the tens or hundreds of thousands indicated by the White House’s promises.

Even U.S. nurses who had contact with corona patients have trouble to get tested.

Some Iranian officials started to take the outbreak seriously only after several of their colleagues fell ill. It seems that the current White House resident has a similar mentality. He will only start a serious effort after people near to him test positive or fall ill. Trump requested only $2.5 billion from Congress to fight the epidemic. The Senate then passes a $8.3 billion spending bill for coronavirus related issues. That is still not enough and more urgent legislative measures must be taken.

Trump is best advised to just shut up and let the professionals do their job. Politicizing the epidemic will only raise distrust in the official statements:

When Vice President Mike Pence directed scientists to clear messages with the White House, he got it exactly backwards: The political class should clear health messages with trusted scientists at the CDC and NIH.

The global economic shock the epidemic was expected to cause is setting in. Airlines get hammered as more and more people decline to travel:

The shares of the top seven US airlines reacted sharply today, with drops as of mid-afternoon ranging from -6.8% for Delta to -16% for Spirit Airlines, which is now down 49% since January 17 before the coronavirus threatened the travel industry.
...
The IATA’s new estimates see a spectrum between two scenarios for 2020:
  • In the “limited spread” scenario, where the virus is “contained in the current markets with over 100 cases as of March 2,” global passenger revenues would take a $63-billion hit, or 11% of revenues in 2020.
  • In the “extensive spread” scenario, where the virus is in “all markets that currently have 10 or more confirmed COVID-19 cases as of 2 March,” and “with a broader spreading” of the virus, global passenger revenues would take a $113-billion hit, or 19% of revenues in 2020.

Several large airlines will go bankrupt and thousands of people will lose their jobs.

The panic around the epidemic creates a demand shock in two different ways. Some products are suddenly in high demand and shortages appear as people are hoarding toilet paper and masks. On the other side spending on restaurant visits and vacations will evaporate. There will also be supply shortages as companies with infected workers, especially in China, have shut down.

All this creates disruptions and economic losses for companies and for many, many individuals.

Some companies are doing the right things. As there is an outbreak in Seattle Microsoft has told its employees who can work from home to do so. But there are also hourly workers who work for vendors and who staff its on-campus cafes. Microsoft promises to take care of them:

We recognize the hardship that lost work can mean for hourly employees. As a result, we’ve decided that Microsoft will continue to pay all our vendor hourly service providers their regular pay during this period of reduced service needs. This is independent of whether their full services are needed. This will ensure that, in Puget Sound for example, the 4,500 hourly employees who work in our facilities will continue to receive their regular wages even if their work hours are reduced.

Such sanity should be more widespread.

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Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the issue:

Posted by b on March 6, 2020 at 18:55 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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what happened to Lulu? Our chinese poster who posted nice little updates.

The question that i ask myself and that i can't find a good answer for is the following

Why would China lock up hundreds of millions of of people, write of a huge chunk of the GDP etc and future earnings if this is a nothing burger.

next
why are we talking about 'flu' when this virus goes straight to the lungs and causes pneunomia (something elderly people die fairly easy of as breathing is conductive to living generally :). It looks more like a viral bronchitis, leading to pneunomia which may or may not be antibiotic restistant.

But frankly, can anyone blame Jo and Jane Sixpacks from stocking up on supplies knowing that they may be asked to 'self isolate' for weeks on end? I don't and i have been stocking up steadily since China started to weld in their Citizens into their Apartment blocks. I right now with my family and critters could potentially hunker down for a few weeks without having to suffer hunger or malnutrition. And unless that need for 'self isolation' forced 'lock down' is explained people will panic and will panic buy. Humans are humans and will do as humans who have no faith in their governments will do.

Posted by: Sabine | Mar 7 2020 6:45 utc | 101

Also with China going into spring would that not naturally reduce the virus? I read somewhere that this virus does not like warmth so any increase in outside temperatures would allow for it to 'die' away and then re-occur with the onset of autumn/ winter?

Posted by: Sabine | Mar 7 2020 6:59 utc | 102

@Sabine #99

WHO officials are saying they don’t know whether the warmer weather will help or not. See comments #82, #86.

Posted by: S | Mar 7 2020 7:20 utc | 103

Thanks for following the evolving coronavirus story b

I am glad to read other speculation that this virus did not escape in China.

As an American watching the allowed virus reporting for US that shows it spreading rapidly and reading about the "efforts" being made by government and politicians does not make me warm and fuzzy as a guy in his early 70's.

How do you make the decision to hunker down for a month?
Part of me wants to get the virus and deal with it but then this virus can reinfect so don't get infected to start with.....argh/whatever...this is where serendipity thankfully takes over.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 7 2020 7:28 utc | 104

fyi

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-spreads-one-study-predicts-101552222.html

....On Tuesday, the WHO noted that the global death rate for the novel coronavirus based on the latest figures was 3.4% — higher than earlier figures of about 2%. The WHO's director-general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, said the new coronavirus was "a unique virus with unique characteristics.".....

....In the low-severity model — or best-case scenario of the seven — ANU researchers estimate a global GDP loss of $2.4 trillion, with an estimated death toll of 15 million.....

Posted by: michaelj72 | Mar 7 2020 8:08 utc | 105

I like how without any testing or information MOA knew EVERYTHING and that now any take has to orbit the original assumptions.

You don't have to speak with authority on everything.

Posted by: Al | Mar 7 2020 8:36 utc | 106

michaelj72 @102:

The 3.4% 'mortality rate' is simply the raw number: # of deaths / # of confirmed coronavirus cases. It's NOT comparable to the mortality
rate for the common flu, which has long been established as .1%. The experts in your link (see below) state that the rate will go down as more people are tested. As far as I know, only China and perhaps South Korea now have reliable figures on how many have been infected with the virus. For example, the U.S. and Japan have been a tragic embarrassment when it comes to actually testing people.

Business Insider:

The death rate is likely to change further as more cases are confirmed, though experts predict that the percentage of deaths will decrease in the longer term since milder cases of COVID-19 are probably going undiagnosed.

"There's another whole cohort that is either asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic," Anthony Fauci, the director of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said at a briefing last month. "We're going to see a diminution in the overall death rate."

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 7 2020 9:08 utc | 107

At the beginning the west with their propaganda army and useful idiots aka racist sinophobes constanty insult china , and racist blogger like Solomon from SNAFU constantly post anti china stuffs on his blog , saying “we should kick them when they are down”.. this guy is a black dude and have constantly post anti china stuff but denying he hate chinese..

many american people are submerged in irrational hate toward china , they closed their eyes on the advances the chinese made over decades.. They cant bear to part with their drunk delusional brand and accept that the chinese already surpassed USA in many parts..

now the world saw how effective and unified the chinese govt acted and how disorganized the west act during this outbreak..

but these racist sinophobes still cannot get past their conditioning and still trying to blame china ..

cognitive dissonance .. citizens of the fallen empire cant accept fact they are 3rd rate slave nation

Posted by: milomilo | Mar 7 2020 9:21 utc | 108

Everybody and his mother knows from at least two and half months ago, that seeing the news from China (so many millions people quarantined) that this disease will be an epidemic, and for sure it will hit USA, and now we learn the CDC and the Trump administration have only few thousands tests available and they are convinced they are managing the situation very well...

Well we are going to see a good experiment: the result of the private health care system scam in front of a dangerous pandemic, it will be a Darwinian experiment we can call "The Survival of the Richest".

For sure we will never know the number of cases and fatalities for Corona in the USA, because they won´t allow to make a significant number of tests, but in two years we will see how the life expectancy in USA will be compare with the others developed countries with socialize health care

Posted by: DFC | Mar 7 2020 9:24 utc | 109

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 6 2020 19:49 utc | 11

in NZ the government has outright told the public many years ago that in the case of a major earthquake or volcano eruption that they are on their own for up to a week / two weeks.
so yeah, here to people were told to have some 40 gallons of water at hand, provision, meds, first aid kits, meeting plans for family, ready community response etc just in case. Being that NZ is essentially 5 - 10 large cities and then the great big empty rural bits.
But again, what worries people is the idea of the whole country going into 'self isolation'. how is that supposed to work? No one goes to work, no one gets paid, no rent gets paid, no bills get paid....and that scares people and any government inclusive the chinese has yet failed to explain how that is supposed to work.
So maybe B can write us a essay on how the great 'self isolation' project is gonna work. It be an interesting read, and i hope its not taken from Stephen Kings The Stand.
Also i would really like to know what scared the Chinese Government so much about this virus that they write of 3 month of GDP, maybe a few more month of it with a stuttering economy, and lock up several hundred million of people for weeks on end, going so far as welding doors shut. That would be some nice yarn to spin.

Posted by: Sabine | Mar 7 2020 9:34 utc | 110

First of all thanks to You, b, for Your great reports - day by day! Great because of information of facts, one hardly gets anywhere else and great because of b's very deep and thorough analysis.
But now to Corona: I was really shocked by a German language video "CORONA - ALLES NUR PANIK" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq57pWuGJlU (probably at least B understands German).
I this video the medic Dr. Köhnlein tells us, that the relatively new tests are called "PCR". And by "PCR" the patient is only tested for a short DNA-sequel (within the anti-bodies of the patient - if I understand Dr. Köhnlein right). But this short DNA-sequel does not only appear with Corona but also with pneumonia and - if I understand Dr. Köhnlein right - with even more other virus caused illnesses.
Dr. Köhnlein points out that he remembers that at the time of the "Swine-Flu" (about 10 years ago) an old German man died and by a test it was confirmed he died of pneumonia. But then came a new medic and he tested the dead body for Swine-Flu - and the test was also positive. And in the next days everywhere in the news he was declared to have died of Swine-Flu.
Dr. Köhnlein declares that he is confident that we have a only "Test-Pandemic" - and not a real pandemic.
He also points out that the objectively recognizable symptoms (coughing, sniffing, fever and so on) of people being said to by ill because of Corona don't to the slightest differ at all from the symptoms people have, who are ill because of one of the lot of other flu or pneumonia viruses.
Dr. Köhnlein also points out to this strange case of this Chinese medic, who "detected" the corona virus first. This man, a Li Wen Liang (?), was an oculist, an eye(!) specialist! And than an old Chinese man of Wuhan, aged 89 years old, died. And now this eye specialist Li Wen Liang felt motivated to reseach, if this 89 year old man maybe, maybe, maybe might have died of a totally new - ad to this day totally unknown - virus?!
Dr. Köhnlein also points out that the death of this Li Wen Liang is very strange. Oficially it was declared that this 33 years young Li Wen Liang died of pneumonia. But Dr. Köhnlein declares that it is next to impossible, that in an intact and functioning modern society a man as young as 33 year can die of pneumonia.

To decide if Dr. Köhnlein is wrong or right, I would want to have a monthly list of the numbers of people who died of illnesses (excluding people who died because of an accident, murder, suicide and so on) during the last 5 years. Good would it be to get such a list by the local governmant of Wuhan. But also such a list of Seoul or Theran or of some town in the Italian Lombardy would do. So the question is: Does the total number of people having died because of a disease (let's say in Wuhan

Posted by: Joerg | Mar 7 2020 9:40 utc | 111

What happens when you put 2000-7000 air-heads on a boat? I mean... since the case of the cruise that ended up docked near Japan and seem to have been responsible for all or most cases there (a medic, more specifically, after he had to go on board and noticed no one respected the rules... which one can understand) WHO should have told governments that cruises should be cancelled and people air-lifted, no?

Utah's first coronavirus patient was only told about cruise ship outbreak after they got home
The first patient to be diagnosed with coronavirus in Utah didn't know that there had been an outbreak among their fellow Grand Princess cruise ship passengers until they returned home.

The Utah Department of Health said in an earlier news release that the resident had contracted the coronavirus while onboard the Grand Princess, which is anchored off the coast of California under quarantine.

Utah state officials said that the cruise line informed the patient of the outbreak after they got home, and then the passenger went to a clinic to be checked.

State epidemiologist Angela Dunn said there were other Utah residents on the cruise, and they are reaching out to those passengers to encourage them to watch for potential symptoms.

People who live with the confirmed patient are also being tested for the coronavirus, and they are looking for other people who were in close contact.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 7 2020 9:43 utc | 112

Case to ponder...

A nation shamelessly use civilian airline as cover when conducting air attack on syrian sovereign soil..

This nation whose leader think they can do anything , use fhe corona virus outbreak to attack iran with weaponized and targetted corona virus because under world wide outbreak they think no one will notice this bio attack.

the blowback from this insane bio attack on terror , their most vocal supporter aka USA totally unprepared to prevent outbreak on CONUS

if this get exposed then the whole world will turn against this nation

it will be the end of the nation as we know it

Posted by: milomilo | Mar 7 2020 9:49 utc | 113

For the archive, let's remember here who were the two Patient Zero in France, because the noise of the "Chinese Virus" on MSM all day long (there too) seem to have sinked that into oblivion.
The very first one, in January, was a 48 year old Chinese man who had traveled by plane to Amsterdam and then by train to Bordeaux.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/24/france-confirms-2-cases-of-virus-from-china-1st-in-europe.html

The two other ones were infected in Haute-Savoie while sharing an appartment with a friend of theirs, a UK businessman who had traveled from Singapore. The guy then travelled to the UK and tested negative. He is known to have infected at least 25 persons.
After all the people related to him were tested negative, the virus reappeared in Haute-Savoie within a few days, and this region is now among the French clusters.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/10/super-spreader-brought-coronavirus-from-singapore-to-sussex-via-france
https://www.thelocal.fr/20200303/map-which-regions-in-france-are-most-affected-by-coronavirus

There were also a number of unidentified free spreaders, and that should be multiplied by thousands since no airport or train station in the EU had taken any measures before the latest weeks and the huge spike in Italy. In fact most of them since do not apply any measure apart from discrete screening whether someone is coughing like hell or not.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51231593

Posted by: Mina | Mar 7 2020 9:54 utc | 114

Joerg,
Thanks for sharing. From what i read here and there:
the young Chinese doctor who alerted first (on 30 Dec.) simply had been to a food market and saw several people coughing very strongly and it reminded him of the SARS symptoms. He told his friends in a private chat group and got arrested. The officials have since been sacked for that, because the guy was actually right to tell his friends not to go to this market and to watch out as the winter flu might be strong. Next thing was that as a medic, he was in contact at work with the very first cases and got infected. As other medics who have died since, it seems that you do not get immunized from the virus once you had it, i.e. the more you stay in contact, the higher the danger. That's how he died from it although he was in quarantine and under care.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 7 2020 10:03 utc | 115

Posted by: Sabine | Mar 7 2020 9:34 utc | 107

Also i would really like to know what scared the Chinese Government so much about this virus that they write of 3 month of GDP, maybe a few more month of it with a stuttering economy, and lock up several hundred million of people for weeks on end, going so far as welding doors shut. That would be some nice yarn to spin.

China is a country whose population is around 1.428 billion in 2017. That's why.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 7 2020 10:20 utc | 116

USA LEADS CHINA IN NEW COVD-19 CASES!

Yesterday's numbers from China show there were 103 new coronavirus cases in the United States. China had 104 new cases, with 4 of those in Hong Kong and one in Taiwan.

Wuhan had 74 new cases. The rest of Hubei has had no new cases for two days in a row. Most new cases in the rest of China are now traced to foreign sources. There is one big cluster in Gansu traced to "overseas input".

Many European countries show a 20% to 50% daily growth rate. The number in UK has almost doubled to 163. In the USA another Princess Cruises ship was hit with coronavirus. Passengers are forced to stay onboard for further exposure, while the ship sits quarantined off San Francisco harbor.

One way of looking at the direction the trend is looking at the number of cured (or died) people compared to the total number of case. The "cured" number reflects the epidemic some two weeks ago. There are still 22254 people in China receiving treatment, about 27% out of a total of 80814. For the rest of the world, out of 21663 cases only 1682 have been cured while 433 have died. 90% are still infected.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 7 2020 12:04 utc | 117

I think most commenters here, and our host, are missing the boat.

I originally read several articles that mentioned about the R0 factor. It indicated that the communicability was far higher than almost all other diseases. But I haven't seen mentions of R0 recently. What's up with that?

I also have read about anecdotal evidence that you can become ill from the disease in a second episode, and the second episode generally kills the person. How often does this happen?

Several posters here joined our host in proclaiming that this is just another variant of the flu. I questioned that narrative and attracted several comments about how I was likely wrong, that it really was just the flu. It appears my original skepticsm was correct.

IMO, the communicability of the disease isn't soley the problem. Another big question is whether or not the human immune response builds up anti-bodies that are long lasting, like for example, the anti-bodies for the measles.

The reason I am very concerned is because if the combination of these things happens, it could cause the end of civilization as we know it -

1. Highly communicable, like measles or smallpox
2. No herd immunity build up, personal immune response is insufficient, like HIV or Lyme disease
3. Significant percent who contract the disease die, like with SARS and MERS.

COVID-19:

1. Check
2. Unknown, but ancedotal evidence suggest that's the case
3. Not quite as deadly as SARS, but 500 times more deadly than regular flu or cold

The politics don't matter when society breaks down, so b, please stop talking about the politics. Instead please focus on the points I bring up in this post.


Posted by: Don Wills | Mar 7 2020 12:33 utc | 118

Posted by: jadan | Mar 7 2020 4:07 utc | 89

You say the CCP lies, based on what facts?
Your hate for Chinese socialist system smells from here...or yo uare a well paid stooge.

"Other countries do not subside so conveniently in response to quarantine", because, in the first place, the quarantines have been put in place too late and in a clearly ineffective way, they have given priority to economy over people´s health and well being, and so we go.

The unbased ansolutely irresponsible first claims on that this was a "simple flu", plus the message that "masks did not work" ( already debunked by the scientific paper linked by DFC above...), the doubts on impossing quarantine and travel controls ( allowing all the Erasmus program kids in Italy moving all around Europe back home, when they should have been left in Italy doing whatever they went to do there...), plus the absolute disorganization at sanitary and political level ( leaving the health workers unprotected...,)have already given place to a sanitary crisis in some European regions, plus adding the exponential spreading we are witnessing so far.

To try ( by Western governmetns´agents in the net, highly likely Pompeo´s stooges...)scapegoating this on the Chinese, will not work, once the people aware through the net on the facts around tis issue, that they will be.

I would recommend to all to put a bit of effort ( perhaps bypassing the most scientific stuff...) in reading the scientific paper linked by DFC by Chinese/Japanese researchers, where it gets debunked that this pandemic affects only elder people and where it is stated that not all people show respiratory symptoms ( which could be the cause of the failure to contain the virus...)but also headaches, nausea and vomiting, and that the mechanism through which the virus works is invading the Central Nervous System where it paralizes the respiratory function ( a testimony on a 24 years old Wuhan University student of Medicine is given on that she should stay awaken to be able to breath on her own, since once slept, unconscious breathing did not work...)
Also comments on the difficulty to erase the virus from the neural tissue, which can explain reinfections...

To me it seems quite a sophisticated virus in its mchanism of action and CNS level so as to be a natural outbreak in a market in Wuhan from whatever jump from any pangolin/bat...

It seems to me more all the way a sophisticated bioweapon.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 7 2020 12:34 utc | 119

Biden and Sanders are both campaigning actively and meeting voters in many different states. Plenty of hugs/handshakes. I am wondering what precautions they have taken against the coronavirus. Note they are both in their late 70's.

Posted by: s | Mar 7 2020 12:43 utc | 120

Posted by: vk | Mar 7 2020 1:34 utc | 71

Iran, which was recently visited by a WHO mission, positively surprised them by the good organization and high level of sanitary attention there fighting the outbreak of Covid-19.

And I say this from a old socialist agnostic point of view.

I sometimes get surprised by your stance, which, while appearing openly socialist, still fails to recognize Iran´s clearly socialists features, which impresses me more of a Trotskyite, since any genuine old socialist/communist will take anytime advantage to attack Iran while it is under full attack ( more properly war ) from the US Empire ( including here Israel in this pack ). This, in spite of all the more knowledgeable on Marxist history and theory you could be ( as Grieved fairly recognize you are ).
I am too tired of Marxist theorics ( which are the same fragmenting the left in the Western world on the grounds of lack of Marxist purity, even when the left rarely grab power...) which fail to accept that Marxism and Socialism is introduced and adapted by any country at its own pace and taking into account its own culture and characteristics. Not understanding this is more proper of willingly or unwillingly ignorant Western Imperialist bigots, the more Marxists they would try to paint themselves, and falls in the same side of those exporting "Western Democracy" by force through WOT, since it justifies all the way the current attack on countries like Iran.

That the theocratic Iranian revolutionary system should be more tolerant with communist ideology, that it should, does not imply that it must be attacked just now, when they are already under heavy attack, as most people of good will in Iran, of all ideologies, have so cleverly understood.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 7 2020 13:17 utc | 121

The cdc (and affiliated corporate entities) has been developing, and releasing into the general population, new and interesting strains of influenza in order to push and sell vaccines for many years now. Every six months or so they, along with the msm (which is owned by the same corporations) declare another superduperflumaggedon... Which only they can 'cure'...

Posted by: Joshua | Mar 7 2020 13:45 utc | 122

This ongoing operation amounts to an ongoing criminal operation, conducted by an organized criminal enterprise. What they are doing constitutes a crime against Life, and against Humanity.

Posted by: Joshua | Mar 7 2020 13:47 utc | 123

These criminals need to be taken into lawful custody, brought to trial, and very likely executed, pretty much on the spot. As soon as this is done, the concurrent series of catastrophies which they cause will cease.

Posted by: Joshua | Mar 7 2020 13:50 utc | 124

If you don't believe it, just ask yourself one question. Why do these creatures keep naming their 'new and interesting influenza strains' the same way they name their machine guns? H1N1 >>> M16A1 ???? Etc...

Posted by: Joshua | Mar 7 2020 13:58 utc | 125

Just sayin'.

Posted by: Joshua | Mar 7 2020 13:59 utc | 126

This is a USA & UK Bio-weapon. Beyond doubt, add up all the present evedence plus massive ‘prior to crime’ evedence. This cannot be swept aside ! Not least regarding who to trust now, no small matter I think.
You can be sure in designing this virus they will have the antidote for the favoured few. I think in this regard we can rule out Iran as a suspect, US scores higher.
With all the suspect statistics flying around, I’m not seeing survival statistics compared to personal wealth !!!

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 7 2020 14:03 utc | 127

@ Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 7 2020 13:17 utc | 118

I'm warning Iran for its own good. It won't win the war against the USA with islamism.

Iran is not a socialist country. It will need socialism if it wants to have a chance against the Americans.

There's a reason the American establishment fears Bernie Sanders, but not, say, Ilhan Omar. The American elite knows who its nemesis is.

Posted by: vk | Mar 7 2020 14:05 utc | 128

People are panicking because they don't trust the American system of doing governance and business. Gone are the days of local communities working together, or even having say over their hospitals that they built. Still wondering why the communities didn't get any money when said hospitals were sold to some network, but I am digressing here. Sorry. Then it was not that long ago (Reagan presidency) that drugs, materials, food, and so on were made here.Our financial overlords said that wasn't efficient, and we need to ship abroad. Now we just make parasitical managers. I dare anyone to say what tangible gain the managerial class brings other than college degrees and a insatiable lust for power.

So with a possible bioweapon escaping, or released, the American little people of all stripes are feeling frightened and abandoned by the great GDP god of the globalists. Being prepared for something is about all we little people can hope to do. And all the chattering class can do is still call us names. The joy of that.

It didn't start with Trump. There are plenty of Democrats to blame. Harry Truman gets the primary "buck stops here" award for allowing the CIA to be created. Trump will never do this, but he needs to appoint someone apolitical to start investigating our myriad deep state biolabs. Watch who first comes out with a vaccine.

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Mar 7 2020 14:25 utc | 129

A weekend reading for your amusement:

Rich People Have Always Been Assholes During Plagues

When the first waves of plague swept medieval Europe, the disease killed both the rich and the poor indiscriminately. In July 1348, King Edward III of England’s 12-year-old daughter died on her way to Spain to marry King Pedro of Castile. And though he was still mourning, the king threw a giant tournament at Westminster in the fall, despite instructions from clergy and doctors that moderation and abstinence were the key to survival. Nearly 672 years later, rich people still want their travel and amusement even amid coronavirus fears, and in typical fashion, they’re doing everything they can to make sure sickness remains the province of the poor.

--//--

@ Posted by: Al | Mar 7 2020 8:36 utc | 103

My methodology (and I was one of the commenters who got it right from the beginning) was very simple: I assumed the CCP is honest about this epidemic and really has the welfare of its own people in mind; I assumed the CCP has the means to contain this epidemic to the best of today's technology and; I assumed China's numbers are the holotype because of those two previous reasons.

So, taking China's numbers as the true numbers, we can easily come to the conclusion the numbers in the the rest of the world are clearly underreported - both in infected rates and death rates.

I never trusted the opinion of those western famous infectologists/virologists for one simple reason: they came up with a conclusive diagnosis with almost no data in hands. They all made absurd extrapolations from the numbers that came out from the Chinese media. There's a reason many countries forbid medical consults from distance (telephone or internet): medicine is an art that requires eye-to-eye contact between doctor and patient. It is heavily realiant on lots and lots of empyrical evidence. It is more an art than a science: a doctor must always assume every patient is unique, and apply statistics to this unique case. To put it simply, doctors are not good theoreticians.

That's also why any study that is not coming out of China or is not using Chinese papers, or was not written in direct colaboration with the Chinese on COVID-19 is useless right now. Virology is a very complex and test-heavy science: even basic comprehension over a common virus takes decades and hundreds of doctors to produce. Those bombastic articles and papers coming out from outside China must be treated mainly as Western propaganda - and I'm not necessarily blaming the doctors involved for this, it may be a case where the journalist induced the doctor and distorted what he/she said.

Posted by: vk | Mar 7 2020 14:40 utc | 130

95 countries have declared they are affected by the virus
.. out of .. 150?
Do the civil servants at WHO get a bonus for not declaring it a pandemia?

Posted by: Mina | Mar 7 2020 14:50 utc | 131

If CV is weapon, and if the release was deliberate, then an attack is ongoing, right?

If it's an attack, name the aggressor. Let's be non emotional and name aggressor "A".

"A" has named Ru, Chin, Iran as "enemies".

Attacks don't simply stop, they create the ground for the next attack.

Look for the second shoe to drop. One does recall the so-called "mininukes) and also the non-mini nukes removed from Turk to Eastern Europe and the context of the "defender Europe Exercise".

Wally would point out that in conflict the opponent gets to "vote".

Posted by: Walter | Mar 7 2020 14:56 utc | 132

The corona virus scare is because of our belief in the Germ Theory of Disease. Germs cause disease; Tubercular Bacilli cause tuberculosis; measles virus causes measles etc

Robert Koch developed 4 postulates to prove the existence of a pathogen
1) pathogen present when the person has the disease
2) pathogen can be isolated / purified
3) pathogen injected into a healthy patient to cause the same disease
4) pathogen can be re-isolated from newly infected patient

This all makes sense if the Germ Theory of Disease is true
In the case of Tubercular bacilli, for example, you do observe them in a patient with tuberculosis. . It is possible to purify them from a sample taken from patient. ie Koch's postulates work for the first two postulates. Max von Pettenkofer (1818-1901) drank a bowl of purified tubercular bacilli and did not get tuberculosis. In other words the tubercular bacilli are not the cause of Tubercuolis and the Germ Theory of Disease fails on the third postulate for all so-called bacterial infections.

In relation to pathogenic viruses, the doctors / virologists observe what they believe to be the virus in a blood sample. But it is not possible to purify the virus. The Germ Theory of Disease fails on the second postulate for so-called viral diseases.

These people have the flu - caused by a myriad of factors, but most definitely not caused by a pathogenic virus -- because they do not exist.

Simple question -- ask the scientists for the scientific paper where the corona virus was purified and its diameter measured? None exist because it cannot be isolated and purified because it does not exist.

Check out Dr Stefan Lanka at wissenschafftplus.de

Posted by: James McCumiskey | Mar 7 2020 15:08 utc | 133

i find the cognitive dissonans in people that read "alterantive news" and clearly dont trust the ruling class YET seems to truly believe that vaccines are good and made to help you.
How is it possible to observe "the system" but still trust it on a few single issues is for me impossible to compute bc i truly hate cognitive dissonans and if i discover i have lived with it i do my best to learn about the subject to kill my dissonans.
You guys and gals that profess your independency in thinking but still shill for the system and its vaccines is my entertainment, i literally laugh at you, then i feel sorry for you.
Even if vaccines started out as an honest way to keep the populations healthy THIS IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE NOW, stop shilling and study outside system/msm approved sites.
Cognitive dissonans is the religion of useful idiots, and the propagandists bread and butter dont worship false idols.BE INDEPENDENT FREEMEN.

Posted by: Per/Norway | Mar 7 2020 15:20 utc | 134

@James McCumiskey | Mar 7 2020 15:08 utc | 134

The suspension of disbelief is all too ordinary, Comrade.

see> cryptogon dot com/?p=57574

Is obviously a weapon and obviously an attack of the three primary targets' populations and economies. That people generally are also injured is not relevant to the attack sequence and ongoing war campaign.

It follows logically that "essential" us persons either will or have received a vaccine or similar prophylaxis.

People may object to the idea that an aggressor agency would pale at releasing a bioagent that would injure "their own people". This is naive and ignores bald facts that they have always been willing to do just that...from nuke plants and air-tested bombs and DU projectiles to testing Negro men with VD infections and so forth, and also the Official Report by the International Commission on what went on in Korea and China... US industrial biochem war began in 1941, according to Merck Report...so no, they do not pale at the immoral aspect, not one bit. No more that they pale at using atomic bombs or dynamite, on innocent people.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 7 2020 15:23 utc | 135

@95 Jr

Sorry if my syntax there might have confused you.

I wrote, "Not that the CDC is beyond doubt or questioning..."
Meaning even though POTUS yielded to these agencies during his address to the nation, it doesn't mean that I necessarily trust them.

You just read me wrong.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Mar 7 2020 15:39 utc | 136

Canceling Olympics would reduce Japan's GDP by 1.4%, study says

This is what once migthy Japan - the only country that grew more than the USSR in the 1950s-1960s - is reduced to: a random summer event.

P.S.: I think this studu is absurd. There's no way Japan's GDP will receive -1.4% annualized if the Olympics is cancelled. It's too much for an economy of the size of Japan's. The worrying fact is that the Japanese politicians seem to firmly believe in those numbers, and are in complete denial.

Posted by: vk | Mar 7 2020 15:51 utc | 137

Nemesiscalling @137

You're right! I did.

Somehow I assumed (from what I saw in your remarks) that you left off the 'e' in "Note". Ugh...

My apologies for that.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 7 2020 15:54 utc | 138

There have been independent analyses of the PRC response to COVID-19. WHO insists the PRC response was "agile, timely, focused".

The opthamologist reported on social media 2 days after the head of ID at Whuhan General Hospital reported the cluster of cases to Hubei Authorities. Regional authorities took action the following day. Within a very short time, national authorities locked down all public transport in China. That decision was expressly for the purpose of saving the nation at the expense of Whuhan and Hubei. This was done because national authorities knew they did not have sufficient resources to treat victims in Hubei, let alone the rest of the PRC. They needed time to gear up for it.

They immediately began construction of two hospitals totalling 2600 beds to treat severe cases. Though the first one went online within 10 days and the second followed a week later, they had to repurpose public facilities to make available 10,000 more beds. All the foregoing within Hubei province, itself.
National authorities pushed makers of PPE to resume and increase production. N95 mask production went from 10,000/ month to 300,000/month for example.

Big problem was medical staff initially had to work "naked". No one knew it was as infectious as it proved to be, and PPE wasn't available in sufficient quantities. Large numbers of staff were infected. Many, including the opthamologist, died. Later it was learned the virus behaves like Dengue. That is, often the initial infection is mild and the patient recovers, but without significant immunity. Second or third infections often cause a cytokine storm in the patient, which kills him quickly.

The PRC had to organize training and transport of ~ 40,000 medical staff from elsewhere to Hubei Province to deal with the epidemic, and to relieve exhausted local staff. They had to train the new comers to make them effective, and to keep them healthy while working in what was known to be very dangerous conditions. They had to create logistical chains to support the newcomers, and the local staffs, and those under quarantine, both in centers and at home.

All the above took time. And.... they didn't know if it would work.... But they pressed on.... because they had no other means to take control of the situation.

We all know by now, that they succeeded in reducing new cases to ~ 90 as of yesterday, and in reducing mortality from an initial 15% to ~ 2%.

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Mar 7 2020 15:56 utc | 139

Mckumiskey's essay regarding viral knowledge is spurious.

The Chinese notified WHO immediately. They took samples to various labs, including to a lab in Australia.
The Australian lab was able to grow the virus in vitro, that is on culture media. They were able to extract and sequence it's RNA. COVID-19 is an RNA virus, has no DNA. They reported this to WHO and to the PRC. Various labs photographed COVID-19 using electron microscopy.

So, there is photographic proof it exists, and the photos show what it looks like. It has been sequenced. It has been grown on culture media in the lab. It's variability and evolutionary history is being reconstructed.

The beast is real, it exists, it's infective as hell, and it's dangerous as all get out!

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Mar 7 2020 16:05 utc | 140

It is pretty opaque actually to understand who owns the super-spreading virus factory fleet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_Princess_(ship)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Princess
"Grand Princess was the setting for a task in the second series of the UK version of the reality TV show The Apprentice."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Cruises
"On August 26, 2013, the crew of Caribbean Princess deliberately discharged 4,227 gallons of oil-contaminated waste off the southern coast of England"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Corporation_%26_plc
"In 2002 the Carnival Corporation pleaded guilty in United States District Court in Miami to criminal charges related to falsifying records of the oil-contaminated bilge water that six of its ships dumped into the sea from 1996 through 2001"

Posted by: Mina | Mar 7 2020 16:08 utc | 141

@ A User 81

As promised, here are links and descriptions of peer-reviewed articles backing up my assertions that the CDC has not revised its advisories for the acellular pertussis vaccine (DTap, TDap, etc.) and the seasonal flu vaccines.

...

Here is a peer-reviewed study that found that baboons, with a respiratory system most closely resembling humans in the animal kingdom, when administered the acellular pertussis vaccine, were unable to prevent transmission as carriers of the disease.

Essentially, it is as I said above that elderly who are unfortunate enough to be around a child with asymptomatic pertussis, because of the vaccine which obscures symptoms, stand a very heightened risk of acquiring pertussis unknowingly.

Now, if we look at what the CDC still advises wrt pertussis, we find language that asserts:

Two vaccines in the United States help prevent whooping cough: DTaP and Tdap. These vaccines also provide protection against tetanus and diphtheria. Children younger than 7 years old get DTaP, while older children, teens, and adults get Tdap.

As you can see, as of now, they have failed to revise their claim that the vaccine prevents the disease. It does not. It merely masks symptoms and perhaps makes the disease more bearable for the immune system. However, diseases such as pertussis and measles, when looked at mortality rates over a hundred years in the U.S., show a correlative decrease to negligible value as modern sanitation and infrastructure took hold in this country, long before the advent of the vaccine.

In your post, you claim, that even if they don't prevent carriers, A User, then people would still be idiots for not getting them. Ah...but this is exactly true but exactly why they should be a choice for people. If me saying no to the vaccine does not impact my neighbor in any way when it comes to transmission, the vaccine then becomes a CONSUMER CHOICE and not a public-health issue as the CDC wants you to believe these diseases are.

...

Here is the study which shows a substantial increase in transmissibility of the flu from those who received the seasonal flu vaccine over those who did not (abstained).

WRT the seasonal flu vaccine, I made the above claim that the vaccine, for those who get the flu shot and then the flu, cause in the host upper respiratory viral shedding that is significantly (6.5x) higher than those who do not receive the vaccine and then become infected with the flu.

Essentially, how can the CDC recommend something that, when administered, and when the recipient acquires the flu virus, incurs a carrier that is 6.5x more likely to transmit the flu through what the study finds to be the most virulent in terms of human transmission: virulent fine-mist aerosol from breathing when infrected?!?

Self-reported vaccination for the current season was associated with a trend (P < 0.10) toward higher viral shedding in fine-aerosol samples; vaccination with both the current and previous year’s seasonal vaccines, however, was significantly associated with greater fine-aerosol shedding in unadjusted and adjusted models (P < 0.01). In adjusted models, we observed 6.3 (95% CI 1.9–21.5) times more aerosol shedding among cases with vaccination in the current and previous season compared with having no vaccination in those two seasons.

To reiterate what that study found:

1) Previous popular consensus that sneezing and coughing (associated as lower respiratory symptoms) is the predominant method of transmissibility of the flu from human to human does indeed need revising and that upper respiratory fine mist aerosol from breathing is the more capable culprit, but the study says it "needs more testing."

2) Those who receive the vaccine and then get the flu show a marked increase (6.5x) the amount of demonstrable fine mist aerosol meaning those who get the vaccine and more contagious.

Interesting, no?

...

That being said, don't you think that the CDC, as our Benevolent Overlords, have it as their responsibility to pursue these studies further and revise recommendations to the general public accordingly if they were to find out that, yes, getting the vaccine does not prevent the flu, and yes, you are 6.5x more contagious if you have the flu and were vaccinated recently?

Thank you, A User, for hitting me up for links to these studies. Like b probably enjoys, there is always a pleasure when it comes to pulling back the curtain at the Wizard pulling all the levers and spinning all the valves.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Mar 7 2020 16:19 utc | 142

Oh shit, my post directed to A User, a response to his request for peer-reviewed studies, was just eaten up by TypePad.

B, if you see it, can you please release it as it was a request from another poster.

Thank you.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Mar 7 2020 16:23 utc | 143

Walter @133: "If CV is weapon, and if the release was deliberate, then an attack is ongoing, right?"

Exactly like jihadi neck-cutters, viruses are not very good at following orders.

But America's bioweapon attack on China last November wasn't the start of the fight. That was an escalation of a fight that has been going on for a couple years now. The Chinese have been trying to downplay and minimize the severity of the conflict because they are hoping to contain it and prevent escalation, but that is not the way the empire plays.

Sabine @101: "Why would China lock up hundreds of millions of of people, write of a huge chunk of the GDP etc and future earnings if this is a nothing burger."

Because it is not a nothing burger. It is war. Doubtless the Chinese government recognized that they had been attacked quite early on and their response reflects that.

Here is the thing: The Chinese have been winning for decades. All they have had to do is stay the course and they would displace the Evil Empire (Untied States). It is the US that has had to take extreme measure to try to alter the outcome, thus Trump's trade war and then this bio attack.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 7 2020 16:23 utc | 144

Don Wills @119

No, definitely NOT 500 times more deadly than the common flu. Best info is mortality in China but outside Wuhan. Roughly 1% mortality, which is 10 times higher than the .1% flu mortality. (Of course, the mortality rate will be higher or much higher if people don't receive proper care.) From what I've read, the 1% mortality of the coronavirus is very rough; it might be as high as 1.9%, or as low as .7%. "500 times" would be 50% mortality rate.

Good thing to note that the coronavirus is very infectious, possibly more infectious than a cold or the flu.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 7 2020 16:51 utc | 145

Grieved @80--

Good to hear from you! You'll recall what I wrote earlier about societies and their choice regarding how to defend themselves from the most longstanding #1 threat to their wellbeing posed by microbes. What we have displayed for the world to see are two examples of choices made: China made defending their people its #1 priority, while the Outlaw US Empire prioritizes the extracting of profits from any calamity before any thought of protecting the public in whose name the government's supposedly organized to aid. Instead of being petrified of other nations providing good examples of governance, perhaps the Current Oligarchy ought to try topping the good examples displayed by its competitor nations. As it is now, the narrowmindedness on display speaks louder than all the combined propaganda trying to denigrate China's system, making it easy for other nations to decide which example to follow. Amazing as it seems, Trump, Pompeo & Pence are making GW Bush and Brownie shine as they display the vast Ugliness of America for all the world to see in a way that William J. Lederer and Eugene Burdick would never have conceived in their 1958 novel, The Ugly American.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 7 2020 16:57 utc | 146

William Gruff | Mar 7 2020 16:23 utc | 144

I agree, Comrade.

But the attack via biochem began earily, in Korea about 1950, in the active phase of bombing by the "UN" and spread into China. The work followed the Japanese designs, but with lots more resources.

see>"REPORT OF THE INTERNATIONAL SCIENTIFIC COMMISSION FOR THE INVESTIGATION OF THE FACTS CONCERNING BACTERIAL WARFARE IN KOREA AND CHINA"

Use the title for a searchterm. Long paper in pdf.

Best.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 7 2020 17:10 utc | 147

Oh yeah, the innocent people who die don't matter. They're "collateral damage" - no matter where they live... Not like they aren't willing to "sacrifice" large numbers of their own people...like in many many FFE.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 7 2020 17:12 utc | 148

karlof1 | Mar 7 2020 16:57 utc | 146 " vast Ugliness of America for all the world to see in a way..."

When Trumpie the Clown of Orange was elevated I thought, from "I Claudius" "Let all the poisons that dwell in the mud - hatch out!"


Society / illness... Seems to me that US "society" is a simulacrum while the corpus is deeply into a process of ketosis...behind a fissured screen.

One might even say, artistically, that's why it "smells bad"

Posted by: Walter | Mar 7 2020 17:20 utc | 149

fairleft @145 -

I do not trust any numbers from China. I'm basing my claim of 500 times more deadly on the Italy numbers, and on the fact that you are ten times more likely to be infected in any year by COVID-19 than by influenza. Today's numbers from Italy are 200 deaths out of 4700 cases (4.2%) with many more of the 4500 undead likely to die.

This isn't as bad as the bubonic plague or the introduction of smallpox to the new world. However, IMO, it will be more devastating than the Spanish flu of 1918, particularly because reinfection or a lack of adequate antibody response (like for HIV and Lyme disease) will cause society to panic with ensuing societal breakdown.

Posted by: Don Wills | Mar 7 2020 17:43 utc | 150

Comrade Texas, the commie from Donbass, has a plausible thesis that ties it all together...the CV, the disposition of armies and munitions, right down to Merkwurdigliebe's "mine shafts" and General Ripper, well, the 2.0 issue of it anyway. Wally would like to think Comrade Officer has been eating wild mushrooms...

But he doesn't imagine that.

Entirely seriously, I'd suggest sober reading of the entire essay. I urge it.


"Donbass and Syria – A Perfect Storm Approaching?"

fort-russ dot com

Note, suppose the Comrade's Thesis is in error. Good. But the fact that it's plausible would be seen by Comrade Putin and his officers - so they must allow for the possibility that Texas' thesis is valid.

That's how accidents happen.

But the Thesis looks congruent with the past and with policy, which is war to rule the world and all of that.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 7 2020 18:32 utc | 151

It's quite simple.
When China went into full lockdown mode, there were 1.300 cases and it rose by a hundred a day. Once they've done it, they still had 80K more cases and it took 6 weeks to once again go below the 100 new cases a day threshold.
Italy now has 6K cases, it rises by more than a thousand a day, and these fucking incompetent buffoons (granted, I should extent this to all Western governements, considering their ridiculous response) still don't put Milan under lockdown, which should've been done a week ago.

Frankly, before the year is over, Western people will see that China had contained the pandemic and has vanquished it in a few months, and will be coronavirus-free - except for the odd cases caught abroad -, and they'll be able to compare to the major fuck-up the EU has committed, with millions of cases that will have plagued the continent for 6 months or more.
At this point, one can hope that European peoples will ask for heads to roll. And I don't mean it figuratively. At the very least, I expect them to have learn the harsh way the free-movement isn't an absolute freedom but just a luxury and a major drawback once any crisis appears.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 7 2020 18:52 utc | 152

@ Mina (Mar 7 2020 10:03 utc | 116)
Thanks for Your comment (to my "112").
But I don't understand you sentence "it seems that you do not get immunized from the virus once you had it, i.e. the more you stay in contact, the higher the danger. That's how he died from it although he was in quarantine and under care"
Because Li Wenliang infected himself only once (!) - and than he died. And this was extremely surprising. This because he was 33 years old when he died. And "…up to the age of 39 years old, the fatality rate is 0.2%" (see https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coronavirus-81-of-cases-are-mild-study-says ).
That means that out of 500 Corona infected (of that age group) only one person dies. And exactly Li had to be that one person?
On the link above You can also read that that the average death rate of Corona is 2.3%. SARS on the other hand had a death rate of "14-15 %".
So the excitement of Li Wenliang but even more the campaign of the media and health organisation needs an explanation. Already in the headline of the following article we read the important information: "5 MILLION CASES WORLDWIDE, 650,000 DEATHS ANNUALLY: THE SEASONAL FLU VIRUS IS A “SERIOUS CONCERN”, BUT THE WUHAN CORONAVIRUS GRABS THE HEADLINES" - https://counterinformation.wordpress.com/2020/02/22/5-million-cases-worldwide-650000-deaths-annually-the-seasonal-flu-virus-is-a-serious-concern-but-the-wuhan-coronavirus-grabs-the-headlines-2/

And please remember: This fake and fraudulent "Swine-Flu" campaign had never consequences for those, who were responsible. To this see Prof Michel Chossudovsky: "CORONAVIRUS: REMEMBER THE “FAKE” 2009 H1N1 SWINE FLU PANDEMIC" - https://counterinformation.wordpress.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-remember-the-fake-2009-h1n1-swine-flu-pandemic-manipulating-the-data-to-justify-a-worldwide-public-health-emergency/

Have a nice weekend, Mina!

Posted by: Joerg | Mar 7 2020 19:03 utc | 153

@Mina
To this strange death of Li I forgot the main point and so let me add this: Dr. Köhnlein (in the German video - comment 112) pointed out that those registered as having died from Corona may very well have been infected with Corona. But Dr. Köhnlein believes that they very often have died from another illness, they had. And I believe that that must have been the case with Li Wenliang.

Posted by: Joerg | Mar 7 2020 19:16 utc | 154

Facts:

1.- Corona is more pathogenic than flu, including severe seasonal flu (excluded 1918 flu)

2.- Corona spread at least 2 time more easily than flu (R0 = 2 to 4, normal flu = 1.3, and even 1918 flu = 1.8)

3.- Corona is much more severe in old and people with other disease (pre-conditions), as all the rest of diseases (including flu)

Facts 1 and 2 is the cause the "retards" Chinese take so draconian measures to try to stop de epidemic, and of course fact 3 explain the people with more risk are those with more than 60 years old, that is how life (and death) works

It is not the end of the world or the Black Death, but it is not a cake walk, a lot of people will die, and the quantity depends of the measured taking (quarantines), but the global economy will be crushed.

IMHO we will see a something different world after this pandemic

Posted by: DFC | Mar 7 2020 19:31 utc | 155

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 7 2020 18:52 utc | 152

"At this point, one can hope that European peoples will ask for heads to roll."
Be serious Joe. None of the EU Commissars will be touched by this joke of a response to CV. See how that is working out in France with the yellow vests movement. ZERO effect.

Belt and Road Initiative is the target and no amount of pain will be spared to put the brakes on that by the Anglo-Zionists.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 7 2020 19:32 utc | 156

2 French MPs who were at the parliament last week Monday-Thursday for the debates have been tested positive... and super-Macron was visiting a retirement home a couple of days ago! no shame.
I must say I cannot explain why the EU has left trains and planes go as normal once big clusters were identified in France and Italy. It would not have cost much to spray travelers' hands before they get in their train/plane, no?
Heard a statistic today, between 2006 and 2018, the number of airline passengers has doubled. And they really thought a new Spanish flu was unlikely?

Posted by: Mina | Mar 7 2020 19:38 utc | 157

Sorry there is nothing strange in his death and other medics in Wuhan have died too after being sick a number of days. They get multiply infected, and some do get reinfected after they got better (or after the test is negative, unclear to me, anyway tests do not seem to be 100 percent).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang#Illness_and_death

The best way to catch up is Youtube/Dr Campbell.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 7 2020 19:42 utc | 158

Mina @ 142:

Carnival Cruises, owner of the Diamond Princess and the Grand Princess, is itself owned by Ted Arison. The Arisons are one of a small number of wealthy families and individuals in Israel who own roughly 60% of Israel's wealth.

One doubts very much that the crew on the Grand Princess, most of whom are recruited from poor countries and who are underpaid for the work they normally do, have been properly trained in hygienic procedures or are even being supervised or encouraged to observe such procedures as they continue to deliver food to passengers stuck in their cabins. Any pathogens the crew collect on their way while serving the food (even if sealed) will transfer from one passenger to the next if the crew don't change or disinfect their gloves between deliveries.

Posted by: Jen | Mar 7 2020 19:46 utc | 159

To A User,

b cleared my post above @143 where I provide the peer-reviewed study links you asked for pertaining to pertussis and flu vaccines.

Thank you, b, for allowing this discussion.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Mar 7 2020 20:14 utc | 160

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 7 2020 10:20 utc | 117

no kidding Tom. Who would have known that China has over a billion people living there, next you tell me that India is in the same boat.

So that means that the US is good for locking up some 150 million, Germany will be locking up some 40 million, lil NZ will do it to 2.2 million people etc etc etc if all countries force half of their citizen in lock down or if you prefer orders them into 'self isolation' and all that for a nothing burger flu.
All of our governments will risk their economy, their financial well being etc etc just to force people to stay home cause they have the flue.
right?

So thanks for explaining to me something that i already knew, while not saying much.
Why has China happily written off a third of its GDP and more if this flu is nothing, and the media is stoking the fear and not the governments who will insist that people stay home for weeks on end with no access to food, or money to pay bills. Cause in many countries sick leave will not be enough.
Can you explain that to me Tom? Or B, maybe B can explain to us why the Governments have so over reacated and why they are now so unhappy that people are scared. Cause it ain't the media that locked the people up in China. And it ain't the Media in the US that wants to keep sick people on the boat so as to not inflate the good almost perfect numbers the US has, that would the President Orange Shit Gibbon the first.

Posted by: Sabine | Mar 7 2020 20:45 utc | 161

Jen
Indeed I found out that his name appears in the Carnival entry (not in the other entries of course). Someone I doubt he owns 100%. It seems like a royal business I would say... Carnival seems to have many partnership, how exactly does that work?

Posted by: Mina | Mar 7 2020 20:47 utc | 162

>As promised, here are links and descriptions of peer-reviewed articles
>Posted by: NemesisCalling | Mar 7 2020 16:19 utc | 143

Thank you for the references. I have noticed that whenever there is a reported increase in these diseases, the media always blame non-vaccinators, and I always think, how do they know there's not something wrong with the vaccine?

I've only looked at the Whooping cough article so far. I noticed it was published in PNAS, considered one of the "top-shelf" journals, for what that is worth. PubMed reports that the article is referenced by over 100 other Pubmed articles, so this is considered to be an important article by the research community, and of course, completely unknown to the general public, for obvious reasons.

I despise NIH and CDC for their policy of burying the disease myalgic encephalomyelitis (also known as "chronic fatigue syndrome") but readily acknowledge that PubMed is a fantastic resource and well done. PubMed, Sci-Hub, and Wikipedia have helped me learn enough about my illness to treat/adapt to it and stay alive (although it's not much of a life).

Has anyone noticed that it is always Anthony Fauci that has his mug on TV? National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) is only one part of NIH, so where is NIH Director Francis Collins? I'm thinking that Fauci is really the one in charge (he has been NIAID Director since 1984) and wondering if he has direct financial connections to the vaccine industry:


NIAID also was instrumental in the development and licensure of acellular pertussis vaccines, ... Additionally, NIAID partnerships with industry and academia...
(from Wikipedia)

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 7 2020 21:10 utc | 163

Not to worry. Israel will save the World from Corid-19.

Israeli scientists are on the cusp of developing the first vaccine against the novel coronavirus, according to Science and Technology Minister Ofir Akunis. If all goes as planned, the vaccine could be ready within a few weeks and available in 90 days, according to a release.
“Congratulations to MIGAL [The Galilee Research Institute] on this exciting breakthrough,” Akunis said. “I am confident there will be further rapid progress, enabling us to provide a needed response to the grave global COVID-19 threat,” Akunis said, referring to the disease caused by the novel coronavirus.

https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israeli-scientists-In-three-weeks-we-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-619101

Gosh, it is so nice they are on the right side.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 7 2020 21:15 utc | 164

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 7 2020 21:10 utc | 164

"I have noticed that whenever there is a reported increase in these diseases, the media always blame non-vaccinators, and I always think, how do they know there's not something wrong with the vaccine?"

Very true, they never know, any more than they've known anything about what was happening in China. But of course that never hinders their pontifications.

In the case of non-vaccinators they revile a non-conformist group engaging in civil disobedience which the media and its system see as an affront to their religion of statism and scientism. And they're also setting them up to be scapegoated for epidemics and pandemics caused directly or indirectly by the neoliberal system itself.

In the case of the Coronavirus, they'll rush shoddy or ineffective (and unaffordable for many) vaccines to the market, then blame anyone who didn't get vaccinated for the subsequent escalation of the pandemic. If a domestic scapegoat is needed, they think that'll be more effective than demonizing China though they'll continue with that as well.

All this to try to cover up what was either a US bioweapon experiment/attack, or a pandemic arising from the economics of globalization (deforestation, factory agriculture, cramming masses into slums and shantytowns etc.), while trying to continue with Business As Usual as much as is politically or physically possible.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 7 2020 21:38 utc | 165

Big Banks Call for Wall Street Deregulation to “Fight Coronavirus”
As Naomi Klein laid out in her bestseller “Shock Doctrine,” the wealthy elite use the confusion caused by economic and other disasters to quickly force through pro-free-market legislation.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Mar 7 2020 21:50 utc | 166

Posted by: Sabine | Mar 7 2020 20:45 utc | 162

You don't get it. When you are attacked you respond. Unless you are dead that is. China is not dead so they responded as best as they could. AND GOOD FOR THEM !!!! What did you expect them to do, do a kumbaya and pray to Lord for salvation ? And those opposing China you think give a fiddle about "their economy" ? Short term they could care less because what is important is the long game.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 7 2020 21:57 utc | 167

@164 TT

You are very welcome. Sorry to hear about your chronic fatigue syndrome. Being also afflicted with an autoimmune disease, I can relate to the frustration one feels being unable to find suitable answers or even research into our afflictions.

Being Catholic, I desire to view it as a blessing to be able to suffer something like this to attune myself to the sufferings of Christ.

...

The CDC and vaccine producers want desperately to take all the credit for the advancements of sanitation, diet, and clean living the developed world has attained through hard work, engineering, and social programs and planning.

The fact we are turning away from being a maintenance culture to a culture where all they matters is 99% vaccination rates tells you all you need to know about how far money can take you when coopting the public sphere of government and its messaging.

...

I also agree with Russ that this whole hysteria around Covid-19 and a potential vaccine is setting up mandates where those who abstain will be scapegoated and punished, whether through fine or imprisonment.

Nevermind that as shown above, the seasonal flu vaccine as it stands today can be seen as more of a danger than a blessing when taking that study into account.

Shoddy, rushed vaccines are indeed scary when years and years of double-blind placebo testing is needed to ensure a proper cost-benefit analysis where unwanted immune responses, autoimmune diseases, are minimized to negligible levels.

Otherwise, we are back to the fundamental concern of biomedical ethics: the question of liberty and that of infringement of liberty by our neighborly actions or lackthereof.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Mar 7 2020 22:05 utc | 168

There is a surprising lack of credible information regarding the health risk posed by CV19. Not credible partly because the behavior of the governments indicates panic and incompitence while the reporting of msm suggests panic and its no so bad.

Then Trump is even more incapable of dealing with the situation than I had expected. He went from shoo-in to toss-up almost over night. I suspect he is one of the targets of the virus. The virus is about crisis, collapse and bail-outs all around.

Giribaldi had interesting article on the virus. Interesting partly in that he is uncharachteristically unwilling to voice a conclusion but rather simply leaves the question. Because it would appear that something unspeakable, unthinkable has been done. And there is something of a trail of evidence. I would think it would not go unanswered.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/03/05/who-made-coronavirus-was-it-us-israel-or-china-itself/

China has survived the body blow. Will be difficult for others.

Posted by: jared | Mar 7 2020 22:14 utc | 169

The excrement has most definitively encountered the rotary impeller and nothing to see here but normalcy bias.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 7 2020 22:21 utc | 170

- One Susan Levenstein has some (very) serious doubts whether US authorities are capable of containing the corona virus.

- She points out that about 1/3 of all american workers don't have paid sick leave and therefore are forced to continue to work even when they are (mildly) ill/sick. That all (dramatically) increases the risk of spreading the virus at a much faster rate.

http://www.stethoscopeonrome.com/2020/03/corona.html

Posted by: Willy2 | Mar 7 2020 22:25 utc | 171

Well, shit, they woke up and finally did it. Late, but better late than never - Lombardy and some neighbouring provinces will be pretty much quarantined from now on. Not sure about the inner measures that will have to be taken to reduce the spread inside the quarantined provinces. Looks like they finally got it - though it took them a lot of time they couldn't really afford.
Now, other European countries who have some definite clusters should do the same now at that quite local level, before they have entire provinces to write off for the next couple of months.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 7 2020 22:38 utc | 172

1) Bioweapon + Psy-Op

2) 2020 Coronavirus = 9/11 phase 2 (Global War on "Terror" / Global War of Terror pt.2) Possibly more lives will be lost not from the initial attack but from the outcome of those attacks.

-ex. 200K+ dead from U.S. wars of aggression post 9/11, completely destabilizing the world (you're with us or against us) and immense loss of human rights, wealth grab/power grab.

-ex. 2020 Virus economic meltdown provides cover for inevitable Western Economic meltdown, more people on the streets from economic impact and more wealth/power grab. China/Iran/Italy Operation Gladio initial targets. U.S. gets a lesser dose of the strain for immunity cover.

3) Zionist?

Posted by: CitizenX | Mar 7 2020 22:46 utc | 173

As I opined when this crisis erupted, its arrival would be just in time to use March Madness to spread all over. Relative to that possibility, LeBron James said he won't play in an empty arena without fans in response to an NBA plan. I've heard nothing from the NCAA as conference tournaments are already happening in Las Vegas and elsewhere.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 7 2020 23:23 utc | 174

@ Godfree Roberts #51
You wrote:

China's top respiratory specialist, Zhong Nanshan said, “Though the COVID-19 was first discovered in China, it does not mean that it originated from China.

To me, that means China has cracked the case. They're pretty damn sure that it had a foreign origin. Japanese journalists think so, too.

I've just been listening to Joseph Tittel's video on the virus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_bvNNAKhLU
Here's my notes of what Tittel said:

From 5 mins
Think about this for a minute
All the import problems we have with China
Donald Trump cut off travel to China 2 weeks before this virus broke out
Thank about that
Two weeks before the virus broke out, they banned travel to China
Makes you wonder
The media say it's a virus that broke out from a lab in China
Hmmm....
What makes you think it wasn't dropped there by somebody else or somebody didn't travel there with that virus in their system purposely
See it with the radical Muslims, radical Islam people
They go and blow themselves up just to do things for their god
Well, what makes you think somebody didn't do that and went into China with that virus from another country like the USA, because they banned travel ahead of time.
The next report is that Iran is hiding the truth about the outbreak of the coronavirus in their country
China
Iran
What are these problems they are trying to develop?
War between us, the USA, Iran and China
That's been their plan for a long time....
This goes back to the old man Bush
Their plan on wiping out one country at a time, due to the banking system because the world banking system is owned by the Rothschilds family
There's only 7 or so banking systems that weren't connected to the global banking system
There's 3 of those left
Iran, China and Russia
Once they are able to take out their banking systems, they have full control over the monetary system
That is their goal - what they are trying to do
That's why they cause these issues with these countries

Posted by: anon | Mar 7 2020 23:31 utc | 175

Posted by: vk | Mar 7 2020 14:40 utc | 131

My methodology (and I was one of the commenters who got it right from the beginning) was very simple: I assumed the CCP is honest about this epidemic and really has the welfare of its own people in mind; I assumed the CCP has the means to contain this epidemic to the best of today's technology and; I assumed China's numbers are the holotype because of those two previous reasons.

So, taking China's numbers as the true numbers, we can easily come to the conclusion the numbers in the the rest of the world are clearly underreported - both in infected rates and death rates.

That's also why any study that is not coming out of China or is not using Chinese papers, or was not written in direct colaboration with the Chinese on COVID-19 is useless right now.


The Media is us, it mimics us as much as we mimic it. Those that listen to certain media may belong to the worlds dumbest death cult, but even this is not the 'medias' fault, the exploitation however is. But our world being what it is, worshiping money as the highest deity we get the media that we deserve. So maybe we should simply put our thinking hats on and let them report and us decide.

But the above quoted is where i stand, and frankly i have prepared for my partner and I and now the elders (and these are mainly self sufficient anyways) to be able to 'self isolate' if we should be declared affected, or be hit by an earthquake or volcano eruption. All of it likely where i reside. That is not hype, that is commonsense considering that world wide our selected suits are about the worlds most amazing dipshits and morons. They will kill us for shits n giggles and because the holy book du jour says so. Because at the end of it, there is simply too many of us.

Posted by: Sabine | Mar 7 2020 23:32 utc | 176

what happened to Lulu? Our chinese poster who posted nice little updates.

Posted by: Sabine | Mar 7 2020 6:45 utc | 101

I am not Lulu, and obviously I can't state what goes on inside the mind of another person. However, my guess would be that maybe she got discouraged by all the anti-science (renamed "skepticism"), stubborn bull-headedness, fiction stated as utter and certain facts, condescension, lack of understanding on everything about China (immovable, no matter how actual Chinese people explain until they're blue in the face), propensity to consider themselves qualified to open their mouths despite complete ignorance, and, oh, plain racism from a large number of comments here?

Posted by: Chinese American | Mar 8 2020 0:08 utc | 177

"The Media is us, it mimics us as much as we mimic it [blah blah blah]" --Sabine @177

What ridiculous nonsense. If this childishly simplistic perspective had any merit then ALL of the concerns about "fake news" and interference in America's elections by foreign powers would have no basis. Indeed, the entire marketing industry would be just so much wasted money if that notion had any validity.

Go try to sell that crap on Madison Ave.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 8 2020 0:16 utc | 178

CitizenX @174

2020 Virus economic meltdown provides cover for inevitable Western Economic meltdown

Yes! Be it a deliberate act or not, the cover COVID-19 provides is definitely to be accounted for. All kinds of theatres being played out, cogs grinding on as clockwork and contention measures being layed out by disparate parties.

As if any subject becomes offtopic in monthly timespan, the whole is ontopic daily.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Mar 8 2020 0:41 utc | 179

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 8 2020 0:16 utc | 179

wow, did i step on a toe or something.



You don't have to read the news, watch the news, listen to the news, and then you can vote without interference, if in your state/county you have not been removed from the rolls, have had your polling location removed, had a ID imposted on you, have the money to take a day off , have no poll tax of any kind installed etc etc, all of which truly has been a great interference in your elections - all homegrown btw and mostly sponsored by Republicans - then anything any outsider could do. (See Georgia)

Go look at that what US has become and realise it is what people have voted for since Reagan. Go put the blame where the blame belongs. Not some minion in russia earning a coin taking the piss online and give you a bit of your countries medicine in helping elect the US version of Yeltsin. So yeah, to me the 'influence' thing is a true nothing burger here.

The media does as it pleases. It is up to you the listener, watcher, reader to engage your brain and think. And that is the issue in the end, you can't force stupid to think when they don't want to.

Posted by: Sabine | Mar 8 2020 0:50 utc | 180

the young Chinese doctor who alerted first (on 30 Dec.) simply had been to a food market and saw several people coughing very strongly and it reminded him of the SARS symptoms. He told his friends in a private chat group and got arrested. The officials have since been sacked for that, because the guy was actually right to tell his friends not to go to this market and to watch out as the winter flu might be strong. Next thing was that as a medic, he was in contact at work with the very first cases and got infected. As other medics who have died since, it seems that you do not get immunized from the virus once you had it, i.e. the more you stay in contact, the higher the danger. That's how he died from it although he was in quarantine and under care.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 7 2020 10:03 utc | 116

Here, I bolded the non-fictional parts of your post for you. (I'm not sure about the exact date of Dec. 30, but it's close enough IIRC, so I included it.)

Posted by: Chinese American | Mar 8 2020 0:51 utc | 181

Subtlety can be a tremendous weapon if well employed.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Mar 8 2020 1:11 utc | 182

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the anti-vaxers are going to try and make hay with nCOV.
We have all of the "modern" hygiene, quarantine etc to deal with nCOV.
And nonetheless, it is going to spread everywhere - the only question is how fast unless the rest of the world institutes China-like quaranta full blockades across half the population.
But since nCOV kills mostly old people - unlike measles etc which kills children, I guess that's fine. Also fine that nCOV will fill up hospitals if it spreads too far and fast, at which point the mortality rates go up for everyone.
But hey, we don't need no stinkin' vaccines!

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 8 2020 1:17 utc | 183

@184

Here comes Mr. Science himself.

Alludes to our derangement yet does so without tackling any of the issues or science we bring forth.

...

Some people think that the government is going to solve all our problems and would never let humanity suffer any of the ill effects of living in the world.

No one has even broached the topic of suffering what we are made to endure every so often.

Suffering disease is as human as apple pie. Mixed expressions but you get the idea.

And covid-19 will do its damage long before a vaccine swoops in at the last second to take all the credit of humanity's natural response of coming together and tackling the issue holistically and with consideration of the root causes of disease.

With the history of vaccines in the developed world, I am reminded of Kafka's quote on the messiah:

"“The messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary; he will come only on the day after his arrival; he will come, not on the last day, but on the very last.”

Look a charlatan swooping in to sell us monorail!

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Mar 8 2020 2:10 utc | 184

I don’ know which stories should be believed and sure don’t have degrees in virology or epidemiology.

So I walked out the back door and looked up at the sky. You should try that. I’ve lived within a few miles of same spot all my life and have a good idea what the night sky should look like around here. It’s changed. It’s clear. City of Chicago and all its lights are just a mile and a half south. Immediate neighborhood is not exactly dark. Orion is in the southern sky. Right now the faint stars of the sword of Orion are plainly visible. So are the three little stars that make up the head. The most striking feature is that Betelgeuse is red. Naked eye visibly red. The faint stars have not been seen in these parts for thirty years. Last time Betelgeuse was red I was a boy and out in deep country.

Supposedly the particulates that cause global dimming fall out of the sky in about two weeks if not constantly replenished. And in the same time the atmosphere of the Northern Hemisphere is well mixed. If China goes back to work the sky will be murky again. Soon. If that does happen I will know in two weeks time. And if China does not go back to work I will know that too. In the meantime there are wonders in the sky I had never expected to see.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 8 2020 3:17 utc | 185

oldhippie@186

This clearing of the particulates is not good news for Guy McPherson who has predicted a sudden increase in global temps from the loss of the sun screen! My wife asked me to identify an especially bright object in the SW sky. I think it was Sirius relatively undimmed!

Posted by: jadan | Mar 8 2020 3:30 utc | 186

Youtube video on how China has dealt with the virus epidemic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=XU9FVqwO4TM&feature=emb_logo

Posted by: Krollchem | Mar 8 2020 3:31 utc | 187

c1ue@184

There are a number of non vaccine treatments being used in China, such as:
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_87189.shtml

Vaccines may also have increase the cytokine storm as has been observed with corticosteroids.

Posted by: Krollchem | Mar 8 2020 3:40 utc | 188

Mina @ 163:

Sorry, Ted Arison founded Carnival Cruise Lines in 1972. He died in 1999 so of course he hasn't owned it for at least 20 years. His son Micky is still Chairman of Carnival Corporation which owns Princess Cruises, the owner of Diamond Princess and Grand Princess. Princess Cruises is one of about 10 cruise lines owned by Carnival Corporation. So these cruise lines are like a portfolio of companies owned by Carnival, similar to how some people build portfolios of shares or properties.

Shari Arison currently does not have a direct link to Carnival Corporation but she has been a board member in the past.

Posted by: Jen | Mar 8 2020 3:54 utc | 189

YOur dear leaders have practically advertised their handiwork for all to see.
FFS !

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1236255/Coronavirus-latest-four-horsemen-coaches-british-flight

Posted by: denk | Mar 8 2020 4:24 utc | 190

oldhippie 186

So I walked out the back door and looked up at the sky. You should try that...In the meantime there are wonders in the sky I had never expected to see.

https://consciousnessofsheep.co.uk/2020/03/05/because-the-economy-stupid/

Including "The now famous NASA satellite image showing the dramatic fall in nitrous oxide pollution over China since the lockdown gives an indication of just how much industrial activity has been halted"

Posted by: Russ | Mar 8 2020 6:40 utc | 191

CoVid Blues (Don't Cough On Me)


daily I look to the sky
for the frogs
locusts swarm Africa
it can’t be long

until the waters of the Blackfoot
run red as sin
while eager believers
expect rapture to begin

new signs at work
show how to cough
the anxiety ratchets
a few ticks toward a top

where the cap rattles violently
as pressure builds
Seattle’s infected
and question marks kill

have they weaponized lungs?
found a use for our voice?
turning breath into bullets?
so easily deployed?

if some nation claims
too quick a vaccine
deploy some discernment
to know what that means

I mean Jesus! in Georgia
they etched it in stone
breed responsibly, rabbits
or we’ll CoVid your home

Posted by: lizard | Mar 8 2020 7:39 utc | 192

C1u@184

In 1963 before vaccines there were 500 deaths due to measles. An estimated 4 million kids got measles every year, only 10% of them were reported cases because they were mild. Thats a fatality rate of about 1/10,000 cases. By the time of adulthood, everyone had natural lifelong immunity. Good thing too because measles is more deadly in adults, esp older adults. Today 54% of kids are ill or have autism due to massive vaccination, compared to 12% 35 years ago. Also, waning immunity and vaccine failure are destroying herd immunity in adults where these childhood illnesses are more serious. Furthermore, mothers no longer pass on temporary immunity to infants from maternal antibodies , leaving newborns who cant be vaccinated vulnerable. Thats why of reported measles cases a larger portion of cases are adults and newborns. The mumps vaccine as part of MMR is ineffective and short lasting (big court case over alleged fraud my Merck falsifying results to get licensed) meaning vaccinated college kids are getting mumps and risking sterility.

Flu vaccines are only 50% effective in a good year. A covid vaccine will be no more effective, seeing as like influenza its a single strand Positive RNA enveloped virus. It mutates. But so what. Mandatory vaccination for 8 billion at 10 dollars a pop is 80 billion. Thats a lot of cheddar. Treating the side effects should be good for another 20 billion.

Posted by: Pft | Mar 8 2020 8:05 utc | 193

"...did i step on a toe or something."

Nope, it was feces the poster stepped in and is tracking on the carpet.

I've not said that the Russians have interfered in any significant way in America's elections, but the fear that they could have interfered does have a legitimate basis in reality.

The shit-tracking poster itself brought up the issue of advertising being what drives capitalist mass media, but if that mass media doesn't influence consumers of mass media then why pay out enough to keep that mass media going? Hundreds of $billions per year? What kind of capitalist enterprise throws that kind of cash away if it doesn't impact their bottom line? What kind of c-level management would go along with that kind of waste rather than steering that money into their own pockets? Why spend on advertising when all the media can do is reflect what the viewers already believe rather then influencing them?

The shit-tracking poster's premise is that mass media exists to deliver value to advertisers, but also that the mass media cannot influence the media consumers and instead only reflects what they already believe. This is an obvious contradiction as then what value can possibly be delivered to the advertisers?

Suggesting that the capitalist mass media is just society's mirror is utter nonsense as that notion denies the very reason for capitalist mass media's existence in the first place.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 8 2020 9:23 utc | 194

ITALY IN LOCKDOWN!

Italy quarantines quarter of its population to fight coronavirus - Al Jazeera

The lockdown, which will limit the movement of more than 16 million people, will remain in place until April 3.

"For Lombardy and for the other northern provinces that I have listed, there will be a ban for everybody to move in and out of these territories and also within the same territory," Conte told a press conference in the hours of Sunday.

Events in public or private spaces have also been banned, while religious ceremonies including weddings and funerals have been suspended.

But bars and restaurants are allowed to stay open from 6am to 6pm as long as they can guarantee that clients will be at least one metre (3.28 feet) apart.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 8 2020 11:12 utc | 195

How many plain’s leave Italy per day and what is there destination ?
Just listened to a chap on bbc. Holiday in Italy, plain back home, self isolated next day him and his wife got the symptoms rang 101 diagnosed with coronavirus.
He says there were no checks on the plain.
So - - -
How many people were on that plain ?
How far have they dispersed around the U.K. ?
How many people have all those passengers been in contact with ?
How many plaines arrive into our country by day, by week ?
We’re looking at a major catastrophe unfolding before our very eye’s
Both avoidable and intentional !

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 8 2020 12:11 utc | 196

so, there is a bit of uncertainty in my life right now. I came to Hamburg from Venice on 3 March and it was the first time passengers were required to fill out forms stating where they were from and where they were going along with phone numbers and emergency contact numbers. We were not allowed to deplane until the form was checked and handed to airport personnel.

now I need to fly back to Venice, I live in an area not currently under quarantine but don't know if the flight will even go and if it does, will I be allowed to leave Venice for my home.

kinda crazy. My flight is on the 11th so there is still some time to find out my options. I would hate to have to train back as it is a long way.

just thought I would post this as it is real and happening now

Posted by: dan of steele | Mar 8 2020 12:44 utc | 197

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 8 2020 3:17 utc | 186

That you blame your own polution in surrounding Chicago on the Chinese industrial activity is the heights of Sinophobia.
No wonder immediately came "jadan" to support you.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Mar 8 2020 12:54 utc | 198

to pft:

It is absolutely not true that vaccines cause autism. That is an internet myth that has been debunked. There is no good science linking vaccines to autism. As to the measles vaccine, doesn't it matter that it would save the lives of 500 kids?

Posted by: Carolyn | Mar 8 2020 13:08 utc | 199

Dan of Steele @ 198
Hire a car Dan. Avoid crowds. This is not undue panic ! Call it health and safety /risk assessment. Don’t trust enyone who use the ‘panic’ word ! Their a fool or a part of the problem.
Your question is very important as an example of the fine detail in our lives !
Remember every decision you make is a matter of life or death.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 8 2020 13:19 utc | 200

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