Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 17, 2020

Coronavirus - A Lockdown Is Not Enough

Dr. Carl Juaneau, who is specialized in epidemiology, has pointed me to a page where he collects useful information about the novel Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2 and the current pandemic it causes.

COVID-19: Why America May Be Hit Hard for 3-4 Months & What To Do

It is quite good. Make sure that you scroll beyond the long country statistic for additional useful information.


Eight days after we wrote Why We Must Shut Everything Down And Do It Now it finally gets done. European countries have closed their borders and told their people to hunker down. Major car companies like Volkswagen, Peugeot and Fiat have stopped their production as car sales have slumped anyway. Airbus shut down two of its production sites to revamp them for better protection of its workers. In the U.S. the Bay Area, New York, Seattle and other major cities have also basically closed down.

Even Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson has changed his mind. Instead of taking it "on the chin" as he had suggested and letting many people die until the rest achieves 'herd immunity' Britain will now finally try to stop the spreading epidemic.

Racism is the reason that this is happening so late. China, South Korea and Singapore had already shown what needs to be done fo fight the epidemic and how to do it successfully. But Asian voices do not count in 'white' decision making. The political action in Europe and the U.S. only started to happen after Italy was hit very hard.

And our governments are still not doing enough.

We must test every person's temperature at airports and trains and build up drive thru testing capacity. If one does not search for the virus one will not find it. We must test, test, test to track all virus carriers down and to stop the spreading. 

There must be a mandatory isolation of people who are probably infected but do not show symptoms as well as separate isolation of suspected and detected cases with 'mild' symptoms.

Telling a probably infected person to shelter with their family, as is now done in the U.S. and the U.K, will only kill more people. 75%-80% of the cases in China got infected through direct family contact. The family chain must be broken to effectively stop the epidemic.

Probably infected persons, i.e. those who had contact with another infected person, should be put under quarantine in sport arenas or exposition facilities to be supervised by medics.

Contact tracing teams must ask each of them with whom they met over the last days and then check on those persons. This requires lots of people and resources but China has show that it is doable. Tracing cellphones may be useful to help with this. Community monitoring may be a viable alternative.

Additional hospital capacity must be built. There must be hospitals exclusively for Covis-19 cases and others for people with different medical problems.

NYT science and health reporter Donald McNeil, who was in China during the shutdown, explains very well how China has beaten the epidemic in Wuhan. Please watch this:

Organizing all those measures is exactly what our governments should have done since the end of January. Today they are still only discussing most of those measures.

Boris Johnson is said to have changed his strategy based on a new study from the Imperial College. The study says:

Two fundamental strategies are possible: (a) mitigation, which focuses on slowing but not necessarily stopping epidemic spread – reducing peak healthcare demand while protecting those most at risk of severe disease from infection, and (b) suppression, which aims to reverse epidemic growth, reducing case numbers to low levels and maintaining that situation indefinitely.

Mitigation was the way Boris Johnson had planned to go because he wanted to achieve 'herd immunity' for all of Britain. That is something that can only be done through vaccinations. The idea was clearly lunatic. The study says that such a 'mitigation' would have resulted in "hundreds of thousands of deaths and health systems (most notably intensive care units) being overwhelmed many times over."

That leaves suppression as the only way to go. Cut the epidemic down as much as possible and test, test, test to find each and every new case. Cutting the epidemic down requires a two months shutdown and all the above listed additional measures.

There was by the way nothing new in Johnson's 'new' Imperial College study. Here is Richard Horten, the editor of the famous medical journal Lancet, telling it like it is (emphasis added):

richard horton @richardhorton1 - 6:56 UTC · Mar 17, 2020

It said it took a study from Imperial to understand the likely burden of COVID-19 on the NHS. But read the first paper we published on COVID-19 on Jan 24. 32% admitted to ITU with 15% mortality. We have wasted 7 weeks. This crisis was entirely preventable.

The morning after the dramatic change in strategy to COVID-19 by this govt, I can’t help but feel angry that it has taken almost two months for politicians and even “experts” to understand the scale of the danger from SARS-CoV-2. Those dangers were clear from the very beginning.

Chinese clinicians and scientists—Chen Wang, George Gao, Chen Zhu, Bin Cao—did the world a great service by immediately sharing their data, warning the world that SARS-CoV-2 was a dangerous new virus. I’m appalled to say that western “experts” failed to heed their warnings.

Laura Kuenssberg says (BBC) that, “The science has changed.” This is not true. The science has been the same since January. What has changed is that govt advisors have at last understood what really took place in China and what is now taking place in Italy. It was there to see.

Even with a shutdown the situation for Britain's National Health Service is likely to become catastrophic. The red line in the graphic below is the actual critical case capacity the NHS has. There are some 10 critical care beds per 100.000 people. All prediction variants show that it will be exceed several times. Johnson's 'do nothing' strategy would have required 180 critical care beds per 100,000 people.  Even with all measures that will now be taken there will likely be a need for several more critical care beds for each one that currently exists.


"You may live" and "you must die" decisions will have to be made as there is not enough capacity in place.

Shutting down most public life is now clearly the best thing to do. In Italy, the town of Lodi (green) had the first case, and locked down on Feb 23. Bergamo (red) waited until March 8. See the difference:

Source - bigger

Today ANSA reported that there are now no more free intensive care beds in Bergamo, a city with more than 120,000 inhabitants.

The delay between the shutdown in Wuhan and a fall in new daily cases was 12 days. 10 to 14 days from now we will probably see a drop in the number of new cases in European societies and within the shutdown areas in the U.S. But that is not guaranteed unless the additional measures come into play.

The late shutdown decisions by 'western' governments come at a very high price. Many more people will die because the time and information China gave us to prepare was not used to make the necessary decisions. The late decisions will also increase the time it will take to fight the epidemic down. They thereby also increased the economic damage all this will cause.

People should ask their governments why they disregarded the information and experience from Asia.

Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the issue:

Posted by b on March 17, 2020 at 18:39 UTC | Permalink

« previous page | next page »

In rural province Wally's reading the local news...and sees that the stealing has, it seems, (3 sheep and a baby goat)...reasonably tasty swag.

If this goes on and it spreads there is liable to be shooting... Wally may be the only guy 'round these parts who does not keep a gun... But he has "herd immunity" 'cause it is assumed the 100% do keep guns. Nobody wants to meet at a it'll be sneaky stealing, mostly.

The hills are overpopulated with both wild pigs and wild people. In drought the bears come down to drink and will the other wild critters.

I expect they'll be setting up a camp at the fairgrounds.

The local stores are, I hear, more or less empty.

Anybody can connect those dots...

Months back, for 2 buckies, Wally bought a cop-o-tronic radio-receiver "scanner". We'll see what we hear over the next few months...since they get excited and happy when they get to play with guns and shoot people they always say a lot when there's any gunfire reported.

The sheriff ain't gunna permit much along such lines.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 10:19 utc | 201

D | Mar 18 2020 9:59 utc | 200 Dude! That's Very Interesting.
Please follow that up with what you can.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 10:20 utc | 202

Der Leyen's excuses "we did not know enough how dangerous it could be" should NOT be accepted. I hope the Germans take action to counter this type of propaganda. Lots of specialists said how bad it would developed.If you look at the timing, it is obvious that only after Trump start to admit the danger did some EU countries follow suit although until that they had been in full denial even when they were at the very centre of the intl transport hub (France, Belgium, Netherlands, UK).

Posted by: Mina | Mar 18 2020 10:33 utc | 203

194 ref French system
They have applied a measure already taken by Italy: they announced on radios and tv-s that you would have to print a form and fill it; you could go one for only one reason per day : grocery or pharmacy or quick outdoor exercise, etc.
The way it was announced would make you believe everyone has a computer and a printer. After a day they had to start mentioning that one could also write it on a sheet of paper "i swear that i am going out for..."
Nice for non-speakers...

Ppl will continue voting or the extreme-right in coming elections, looking for the original rather than the copy. I wouldn't like to live in a country ruled by a Trump/Bolsonaro or Modi at the moment, to name a few.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 18 2020 10:45 utc | 205

Americans seem at their happiest when shooting things and people. I guess a bit of therapy in these dark times to ward of coronavirus incurred PTSD.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 10:48 utc | 206

Cerce ! Don’t give up now dam it !
Just think what Corbyn went through ! The Labour Party went through !
The best leader U.K. never had. The biggest party in Europe distroyed from within by the Israelis. Democracy destroyed!
They gave you a tough time on here. I’v been at the sharp end of that my self, but if it dose’nt Kill you it makes you stronger.

Walter you really need a local net work of phone numbers.
It,s about to get ruff and tough. Don’t make enemy’s with them people they’l be Scared hungry refugees ( yes it’s our turn now ) karma
So what’s the next important emergency measure my government is going to take a month to late? as a deception whilst herding us over the cliff to our death ?
Don’t get mad get even.
Three months into a Tory gov ! Well that went well did’nt it. (Hollow laugh)

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 18 2020 10:49 utc | 207

Jen 201

That is quite interesting. I did not know much about blood types so looked it up. Seems the difference is in the antigens, part of the immune system.
A few thing that may or may not tie together in time. Chinese and Italian doctors using anti rheumatism drugs on some patients as sometime, when the virus has been defeated, the immune system continues attacking the lungs.

And the piece quoted by pogohere on the virus actually using the inflammation response to move itself to other organs. It is as though the virus tricks the immune system in some of the cases.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 11:07 utc | 208

"We will no longer have first hand reporting of what's actually going on in China [because loyal servants of the New York Langley Times, Washington Bezos Post, and the Wall St Murdoch Journal capitalist propaganda organs were expelled]"

I find this infuriating not because I believe the poster is more stupid than normal, but because of the casual and unconsciously ingrained racism of the post that is so typical of "exceptional" westerners.

Really, folks, WTF do you think reporting by the Chinese people themselves is? That doesn't count as "first hand reporting"? What makes reporting by the above-named verified imperialist jingoism machines of a higher order, more credible, and closer to the source than what the Chinese themselves have to say?

Columbus "discovered" the New World, and Australia and New Zealand were uninhabited before Limeys stumbled across those pieces of real estate, right? The world revolves around western Europeans and Americans?

I am sure there will be plenty of justifications of and deflections from this example of racism, but that is always the case with racism.

Our host is absolutely correct to attribute the West's delayed reaction to this pandemic partially to racism.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 18 2020 11:14 utc | 209

The Chinese and South Koreans have been using Chloroquine to effectively treat the disease, currently S. Korean CFR is 0.6% because of testing, quarantining and treatment and about the same in critical cases. The virus SARS-CoV-2 which causes COVID-19 disease is closely related to SARS-CoV-1, which caused SARS disease. The SARS vaccine that was developed caused cytokine storm in the animal trials, so whether there can be a usable vaccine against this current outbreak is uncertain.

Posted by: TJ | Mar 18 2020 11:15 utc | 210
"As Europe’s daily new cases of the coronavirus now eclipse China’s at the peak of its epidemic, doctors in Wuhan -- the city in central China where the pathogen first emerged -- are seeing worrying signs of similar mistakes unfolding.

Key among them is inadequate protection for medical workers, leading to a high infection rate among doctors and nurses. In Wuhan, a lack of understanding of the disease and a shortage of protective equipment in the early weeks of the outbreak in January led to thousands of health-care workers being infected while treating patients. At least 46 have died."
I doubt all those medical people that died in China had pe-existing conditions or were in their eighties. For medical staff during an outbreak, fatigue will likely make them more susceptible.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 11:17 utc | 211

William Gruff "The world revolves around western Europeans and Americans?"

Make that western Europeans and five eyes.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 11:25 utc | 212

INteresting timeline (from the cnn live). Early March would be about the time when the UK/Fr/Be/NL lackeys start to be more alarming. Had they been waiting to buy US tests and were waiting until those work, rather than manufacturing their owns?

"The World Health Organization didn’t offer Covid-19 tests to the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, WHO spokesperson Tarik Jasarevic told CNN on Tuesday.

There were no discussions between the WHO and CDC on providing tests, according to Jasarevic, who added that the US typically has the capacity to manufacture its own tests, so it doesn't usually rely on the WHO for them.

Separate manufacturers: On January 17, the WHO published a protocol from German researchers with the instructions necessary for any country to manufacture coronavirus tests.

The US pursued its own design and began testing for the coronavirus at the CDC in Atlanta. On February 5, the CDC announced it would begin shipping test kits to public health labs in the US.

One day later, the WHO said it had shipped 250,000 tests to more than 70 laboratories around the world.

Delays and stumbles in US testing: Days after CDC’s tests shipped, some labs reported that the test kits were not working as expected, which eventually required tests to be re-manufactured.

On March 1, an official at US Health and Human Services said the agency had launched an investigation into a manufacturing defect in the CDC tests.

As of March 9, public health labs in all 50 states and Washington, DC, are able to test for the coronavirus."

Posted by: Mina | Mar 18 2020 11:34 utc | 213

Russ says:

Thank god I still know some people in real life who still retain their humanity and vow to continue living as human beings...

this is one of the more endearing qualities of life in Italy, though it's under duress...there's still a primordial anarchy which shapes their sense of humanity.

Posted by: john | Mar 18 2020 11:40 utc | 214

Dear folks,
I just found out about ID2020. This seems to be the clue & the connection to the entire virus hysteria.

If you don’t know about it please do a search for it on the net. Here is one good link:

Basically we are looking at the global elite officially planning for an electronic/nanotech id within the human body, for each person in this world.

And, please pay attention to this, delivered via VACCINES!
Well, how can you get EVERYBODY on board with this? By scarring the shit out of all! If you oppose them, here is what happens:

God bless you & help us all!

Posted by: nicucino | Mar 18 2020 11:42 utc | 215

I find it strange that in this blog with extremely knowledgeable barflies, no one is (as yet) pointing a finger at China. The disease causing such devastation both in human terms and economically across the world came from China. And it grew because the Chinese administration hid the disease and jailed the whistle-blowers. Again, nothing new - they had done exactly the same for SARS. Kill the messenger. That should be the motto of CCP.

Now the Chinese govt. wants praise for its efforts to stem the virus. The Italians - some of whom went on a campaign to hug a Chinese a month or so ago - look up the mayor of Florence - contributed immensely to spreading the virus because they couldn't live without the money that Chinese tourists bring with them. Look at Russia on the other hand, nearly COVID-free with zero deaths because they banned any visitors from China at the right time.

I really can't see why people are not blaming the Chinese. Their culture for eating all sorts of animals - bats, rats, dogs, scorpions, snakes and what not from which come all sorts of diseases and then the whole world suffers. Why do so many viruses come out of China? Why are their wet markets so unhygienic? And now, they want to appear as saviours to the world and get our thanks!


Posted by: ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 11:45 utc | 216

Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 10:48 utc | 207 (shooting)

Yeah, they do. In reality, as you may know, blasting away is moderately fun in an adolescent sort of way. In my youth I had a Mauser 8mm rifle from ww1, and you could get 1,000 rounds of surplus ammo for 5 bucks. Wally blew up many beer cans and rocks. And we had rifle team at school, both public and private schools often had rifle teams in the 1950's and early 60's. It was however, a time of nearly full employment and low tension domestically, and because of the draft gun-safety was taught both at high-school on those rifle teams and also in basic training. It was rare for people to shoot one-another in those days, and then, as now, there were guns all over the place. There were almost no gun laws except you had to get a license for a machine-gun. The increase in gun laws correlates to the increase in shootings. As Burroughs said, "Every time somebody goes on a shooting spree they try to blame the people who did not do it."

As Wally got old the appeal of blasting away, went away...and when the children we little he needed money...alas the Mauser got sold.

The atmosphere changed. They copied the gun laws of the Third Reich in 1968 - much word for word. Keeping a gun became itself an excuse for the cops to shoot, and thus a dangerous liability. Hence Non-Good.

I wouldn't want to live, however, in a place where only the cops have Wally has been at gunpoint many many times, and there was a frightened nervous cop (or 6) holding the damned gun, with finger inside the trigger-guard, Every Time. Every Time. Most shooting in USA comes from cops.

I have listen on my cop scanner while a local cop ran after a guy who was walking away, grabbed him by the shoulder to make him turn, and shot him dead point-blank in the chest, and then declined medical for ten minutes or so to let him die. That was 6 miles from here on a Summer night.

That cop's still on the job, an' he's got plenty of ammo.

Mind you, I am for a gun-free world. They can start by disarming the cops, then perhaps the ranchers might listen. Meantime rural sheriffs are refusing to enforce the gun laws, somewhat selectively.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 11:47 utc | 217

ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 11:45 utc | 217

You would not say that if you knew more about it. It is a weapon probably made in more.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 11:49 utc | 218

Nasty Russians are running a coronavirus disinformation campaign according to Reuters.
Russian proxies like b will have to watch out now.

Bloody Russians. Spreading stuff like this "It quoted fake news created by Russia in Italy, the second-most heavily affected country in the world, that health systems would be unable to cope and doctors would choose who lived or died because of a lack of beds."

looks like the US and the unelected proxy rulers of EU are not going to let a good opportunity go to waste.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 11:50 utc | 219

You would not say that if you knew more about it. It is a weapon probably made in more.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 11:49 utc | 219

Posted by: anc | Mar 18 2020 11:53 utc | 220

pogohere #193

Young children also don't use cell phones. Blue light from cell phones/computer screens is a notorious melatonin suppressor:

Posted by: Lugnut | Mar 18 2020 11:53 utc | 221

"You would not say that if you knew more about it. It is a weapon probably made in more."

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 11:49 utc | 219

Was SARS also a bio-weapon? And is there conclusive evidence that COVID is a bioweapon. circumstantial evidence, yes, but that doesn't stand under scrutiny.

And does anyone doubt that eating all sorts of animals or animal parts in unhygienic so called wet markets causes viral diseases. These people have been eating ground Rhinoceros horns for ages for gods sakes and all for getting a bigger boner! They have nearly exterminated that animal and how many other species, only the past knows. You defending that??

Posted by: ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 11:57 utc | 222

I shot professionally for a bit. Messy business shooting for skins. not sure how people can kill things just for sport. I give my guns to my son as I no longer have a need for them. Had my heavy barreled roo shooting rifle, 45-70 for shooting bulls in the scrub, 410 shotgun for snakes, 22 magnum for shooting useless dogs and feral cats foxes ect and I had bought a 12 guage for firing fire cracker things when I was flying, but that didn't work. After moving to town I no longer had a use for them (apart from mongrel dogs and cats but that is frowned upon apparently).

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 12:00 utc | 223

@41 Tom74

I think you are giving them too much credit. Although I will say that if your theory is correct, then covid19 is definitely a bioweapon.

I'm far more inclined to go with the hysteria of Anyone But Corbyn. After narrowly losing in 2017, the establishment went into overdrive. For example, when was the last time you heard about anti semitism?

No one in the finance world saw Russia saying No about oil. So I doubt they knew about Covid (unless it's a bioweapon). I think the markets tanking is about the $1.5 quadrillion derivatives market, and how a world on pause is guaranteed to make it go pop. Massive money is being thrown at the markets, and it's not stopping the fear...

Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Mar 18 2020 12:05 utc | 224


People everywhere have eaten all sorts of animals since time began. As yet it is unknown exactly where or how the bug originated in China as a number of people in that initial stage had no contact whatsoever with the Wuhan fish market.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 12:09 utc | 225

More panic driven hysteria. Just lock yourself in a closet lol.

Posted by: Goldhoarder | Mar 18 2020 12:19 utc | 226

if the government tells me to go into a quarantine in a sports stadium, i think i'm not going. bad things happen to people in sports stadiums, think chile.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 18 2020 12:22 utc | 227

@pretzelattack | Mar 18 2020 12:22 utc | 228

if the government tells me to go into a quarantine in a sports stadium, i think i'm not going. bad things happen to people in sports stadiums, think chile.

Exactly, this was my immediate reaction as well.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 18 2020 12:32 utc | 228

>Karlofi1 > I would discuss Douglass' "Almanac of Liberty" in juxtaposition to Beard's "Republic", as they seem to be of the same genre, somewhat ejusdem generis.

ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 11:57 utc | 223 Read more, Friend.

We seem to be on the same page. Wally is 7 generation Quaker-bred (of the Hicksite clans). Pointing a gun at a man is simply not going to be, ever. I agree I think, entirely. Wally took a national 30 cal match at 100 meters back in th' day. He doesn't see so well now, and yes, killing, it's horrid. He did shoot a few animals from what seemed to be necessity when he lived up on the mountain... The game-warden, (who murdered at least one man) advised Wally to "SSS" (shoot shovel shutup) No chit. Ugly business.

Also knew the 45-70. From grandpa (Spanish-American war keeper)...a trapdoor. Alas, also sold off.

We hear gunfire quite commonly, 5 miles from a small town. No worries (except from cops an' freaks). Most people are careful about the drop zone.

In Californika y' pretty much can't get ammo anyway, an' it's expensive. I expect people will create an ammo underground...and they will make new law, but not of course limit the cop murders.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 12:32 utc | 229

Posted by: ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 11:45 utc | 217

I really can't see why people are not blaming the Chinese. Their culture for eating all sorts of animals - bats, rats, dogs, scorpions, snakes and what not from which come all sorts of diseases and then the whole world suffers. Why do so many viruses come out of China? Why are their wet markets so unhygienic? And now, they want to appear as saviours to the world and get our thanks!


Nehhh, I'd say Normal. Have a look ----> Hyper Normal

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 12:37 utc | 230

I noticed this delay of 11 days on the diagrams of Hubei which is much longer than the average incubation time. Modelling is nice but you have to know what to put into them. Suppose you think in terms of families as a kind of 'superpersons'. Quarantine tends to work on these superperons. They are separated but inside the families infection is strong. A superperson remain infectuous for a long period, much longer than a normal person. The check for when a superperson is 'safe' is also much longer than for a normal person. I'd try modelling with these superpersons.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 18 2020 12:38 utc | 231

US Military apparently collects viruses wherever it can. One such facility where this is done is known as NAMRU-3 (go check out the other numbers). This unit is used to "do research" for military use (What other reason could there be? Yes I know, "Help Mankind").

NAMRU-3 in Cairo has at least BSL-3 capability and collects human and animal influenza viruses. It is a WHO GISN H5 reference lab, submitting viruses both to other US government labs as well as WHO labs. NAMRU-3 maintains activities in many African, Middle Eastern, and Asian countries, from Ghana eastward all the way to Pakistan.


Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 12:46 utc | 232

People should download and analyzed this document. I think there are lots of clues in it of what is going ON at the moment! Download this PDF ducument asap , since it will be bloqued soon by the EU!
"EP 1 694 829 B1" the tithe is: FASCICULE DE BREVET EUROPEEN
It is written in " languages, and strange enought COVI-19 was invented by french scientist with the virus patented by the EU!

Posted by: kerry | Mar 18 2020 12:50 utc | 233

Murder rate by gun dropped considerably here are tighter gun laws came in. Primary produces, professional shooters and members of clubs could still get a licence and guns after background checks. At the time I thought it was just the government disarming everyone as we moved more toward a police state, but the numbers are there now.
I guess its just too easy to shoot a few people in a moments rage. Plus some of the clowns from towns and cities were just nuts when it came to guns. Over hyped and all excited blasting away at everything.
Very few gun deaths out in the bush where guns still are kept everywhere for work.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 12:50 utc | 234

@ Its a shame that MOA now has become unreadable. It was good while it lasted. Cheers!
Posted by: D. | Mar 18 2020 7:01 utc | 179

Instead of thinking "shame" I observe you should be cheering MoA's growth in readership.

I find this infuriating not because I believe the poster is more stupid than normal, but because of the casual and unconsciously ingrained racism of the post that is so typical of "exceptional" westerners.[.]

Really, folks, WTF do you think reporting by the Chinese people themselves is? That doesn't count as "first hand reporting"? What makes reporting by the above-named verified imperialist jingoism machines of a higher order, more credible, and closer to the source than what the Chinese themselves have to say?
Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 18 2020 11:14 utc | 210

WG, you deserve big hugs for this call out..

@More panic driven hysteria. Just lock yourself in a closet lol.
Posted by: Goldhoarder | Mar 18 2020 12:19 utc | 227

I hope you are all set. If as your handle denotes I suggest you read this:
The demise of the Financial System is Imminent“Next five years is not about winning but surviving.”

over the last 4 days my question is: Where is Billy G? Days ago, he announced his 'retirement' .......

I find it curious the reporting on elites escaping to their luxurious bunkers.
Especially Billy and Melinda G choosing to "retire" from MSFT and escape to devote more time to their hobby of philanthropy - flagship vaccines. COVID - 19 is poised to cull worldwide, as he proposed in his previous TED talk that we are over-popped. Do you believe in coincidences - that every country is undergoing this virus attack leading to a lockdown before the riots.....triggered by financial collapse, $265 trillion of unpayable debt.

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 18 2020 12:51 utc | 235

US Military apparently collects viruses wherever it can. One such facility where this is done is known as NAMRU-3 (go check out the other numbers). This unit is used to "do research" for military use .

"The extent of the Pentagon's quiet but large virus collecting and its relationships with the WHO GISN will surprise many (Ha ha ha). For example, the Pentagon claims credit for having collected several important influenza viruses that were subsequently selected by WHO for use in seasonal and H5N1 pre-pandemic vaccines from 2000 through the present, including viruses from Panama, Peru, Nepal, Malaysia, and Indonesia.

Some developed countries, including the United States, have insisted that developing countries only share influenza viruses with the WHO GISN and not bilaterally with others. Yet, contradictorily, the United States has a massive military influenza virus collection program, but only provides a very small percentage of the materials that it collects to the WHO.

It is unclear if and how viruses collected by the US military in other countries would be covered by a WHO GISN material transfer agreement because they are obtained and transferred outside what is now- understood to be the WHO system.

If one WHO Member State unilaterally amasses influenza viruses without full participation in the WHO access and benefit sharing system there is strong potential for the WHO system to be undermined.

Also undefined is the legal status of a virus received by the WHO system; but not from an approved lab of its country of origin - a situation that now frequently occurs due to the activities of the US military virus collection system."

"NAMRU-3 in Cairo has at least BSL-3 capability and collects human and animal influenza viruses. It is a WHO GISN H5 reference lab, submitting viruses both to other US government labs as well as WHO labs. NAMRU-3 maintains activities in many African, Middle Eastern, and Asian countries, from Ghana eastward all the way to Pakistan."

Broken link --> labwatch DOT blogspot DOT com/2008/11/us-military-flu-virus-collection DOT html

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 12:55 utc | 236

: ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 11:57 utc | 223 Dude, do not be silly. It's only been minutes - you have hours of reading ahead of you...the US bioweapon program went industrial in 1941, according the the Merck Report. The US Policy of biowar attack on Chine came into effect and action in combat on 01 January 1952 and took place in China as well as Korea. US persons have the most variety of CV19, the Chinese only one...FT Detrick made the stuff, or maybe a secret lab, possibly even Porton Down (Skripal et fil) - and you tell me, fella, when was the Policy changed? When did the policy of germ war on Asiatic targets resinded?

And then you can lookit the Cuban arena. C'mon, Fella, don't be coy or dense. It's obvious, and probably provable in a scientific sense...

Do the reading, Comrade. Please.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 12:55 utc | 237

Continuation of #236 as the whole thing with HTML tags was disappearing :-)

Apparently while the Empire of Lies moved this unit from Egypt to Sicily (Italy).

Out of curiosity I searched this site for the word "NAMRU" and only found this interesting comment from 2008.

Broken Link ---> www DOT moonofalabama DOT org/2008/05/same-old-same-o DOT html?cid=113352014#comment-113352014

In that comment we find mentioned the book "Germs: Biological Weapons and America's Secret War" which I have never read. So I had a look on Amazon and looked at 1 Star comments (best place to start). This comment caught my eye as it puts things in a historical perspective which is always important to do.

1.0 out of 5 stars War propaganda
Reviewed in the United States on January 18, 2016

As the earliest reviews here show, this book was released just as the "anthrax attacks" were beginning. At the time, Miller even claimed to be a target of them herself. Of course, it later turned out that the weaponized anthrax came from a US military lab. The FBI blamed it all on a scientist who had killed himself. The timing of this book was remarkable, but given later revelations about her efforts to channel war propaganda to the American public, not surprising. Miller had actually participated in a bio-terrorism exercise called "Operation Dark Winter" a few months before 9/11 that contained many parallels to the actual anthrax attacks, which some immediately tried to link to Iraq and Al Qaeda.

I recommend reading Graeme MacQueen's recent book The 2001 Anthrax Deception: The Case for a Domestic Conspiracy"

Neat timing.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 13:00 utc | 238

D | Mar 18 2020 9:59 utc | 200

„They were told that without taking a vaccine, they would be forced to leave. They were told it was a Covid 19 vaccine... They took it. WTF?“
Makes sense to follow it and report it here, don't you think so?

Posted by: Hausmeister | Mar 18 2020 13:07 utc | 239

"Racism" is the reason the west did not immediately copy the Asian response?

Oh, please, I expected better from this site.

Posted by: Tusky | Mar 18 2020 13:08 utc | 240

@ancientarcher #217
Rob Wallace has noted that the 1st world has also been responsible for new virus outbreaks - it is just that theirs were less deadly (H5N2 and variants). That's pure luck of the draw.
He says the blame lies with industrial farming: ginormous populations of genetically identical farm animals, crowded together, combined with ongoing spread of industrial farms and people into new habitats leading to exposure to new strains of diseases (Ebola).

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 18 2020 13:09 utc | 241

Posted by: Hausmeister | Mar 18 2020 13:07 utc | 239

Lets hope that vaccine is OK because this stuff is on think ice at times. In Sweden 800 kids paid a heavy price.

"Insight: Evidence grows for narcolepsy link to GSK swine flu shot"

Broken Link ---> https://www DOT reuters DOT com/article/us-narcolepsy-vaccine-pandemrix/insight-evidence-grows-for-narcolepsy-link-to-gsk-swine-flu-shot-idUSBRE90L07H20130122

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 13:12 utc | 242

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 13:12 utc | 242

Brain fart :-)

"think ice" should be - "thin ice"

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 13:14 utc | 243

Thanks Kerry for the Document "EP 1 694 829 B1" Damn! What is going on! So the ex french minister husband Henry Levy was head of the laboratoire that patented the virus to the EU? On page 3 ans 55 it is stated that the virus was created on Hanoi! For God sake what the hell is going ? Here is the doc link: › documentPDF
EP 2755987 B1 - EPO - European Patent Office

Posted by: kladice | Mar 18 2020 13:16 utc | 244

@ Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 12:50 utc | 234 "I guess its just too easy to shoot a few people in a moments rage. Plus some of the clowns from towns and cities were just nuts when it came to guns. Over hyped and all excited blasting away at everything.Very few gun deaths out in the bush where guns still are kept everywhere for work."

Yes, I agree entirely.

Town people get insane, they really need to cool down. Better early we used to have...which suggests to me that the elimination of gun safety classes for those who were interested coincides with the expansion of shootings...

Our local sheriff said not long ago, in the paper no less, that he'd give a concealed pistol permit to anybody who would fit in the state guidelines and take a little safety/qualification class. The reporter asked about people getting shot. His reply was that it had never happened - a licensed person with a concealed handgun had never in the county murdered, or even shot, anybody. Of course all these people grew up together, they were all ranchers, hands, mechanics, millwrights, and went to the same churches and schools as kids, and they'd handled guns since diapers. It's nearly unthinkable to shoot a man in such circumstance, unless your neighbors would too - ie a serious and aggressive immediate danger to life. Then you'd stand trial. And probably be acquitted. As a kid of 20 or so I worked for a year in a small foothill town in the motherlode. A man from 'frisco told everybody in Frisco that he "wuz gunn killth'mofo brother in law" up in our they said at the bar. Well, the brother in law was well liked and heard about it right away. So when the fella from Frisco came to the door... Yes. Precisely. Right back out the door from 00. The DA declined to prosecute.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 13:16 utc | 245

I think a huge problem in anticipating this is that the public health establishment is so fixated on influenza. And a huge reason for this is so many have "conflicts-of-ibterest" (Medicine's polite word for 'on the take') with Big Pharma. There is a billions-of-dollars per year Influenza Industry.

Posted by: Demo | Mar 18 2020 13:23 utc | 246

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 12:55 utc | 237

I have done the reading my friend. More than I would have wanted to.
People here seem to have latched on to the idea that it was a US bioweapon released just before the CNY during the world military games. Unz also thinks so.
But have you considered the presence of a BSL4 level lab in Wuhan (the only in China as far as I am aware) where China does most of their bioweapon research. How likely would it be if they developed a highly infectious virus and it leaked out of the lab because everyone was just getting ready for the CNY celebrations.

I think it is more probable that the virus leaked out of the Chinese lab.

Posted by: ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 13:26 utc | 247

More on Vitamin C treatment for lung sepsis:
I looked further into the matter.
The CITRIS study had 167 subjects; 83 placebo vs. 84 with Vitamin C injections. A detailed review of this study and a much smaller earlier one viewable here
In the CITRIS study: both SOFA based organ failure and another criteria, the Vitamin C cohort actually did worse. SOFA is a metric covering level of organ failure.
But what is being talked about is the mortality: 40 of the placebo patients died vs. 27 of the Vitamin C.
It works!
Well, not necessarily.
It turns out there is a significant difference in SOFA scores between the placebo and Vitamin C cohorts: 10.38 vs. 9.77 <-- and the Vitamin C group had a larger variation.
This 0.61 SOFA score difference may not seem like much, but a larger study showed significant mortality differences between SOFA=10 vs. SOFA=9: 37 vs. 29 by my eyeball. source
While the SOFA delta in the CITRIS study is lower than the study above, the small number of patients means that the actual mortality delta is clearly in the noise margin.
One way to understand better would be to look at the SOFA scores of the people who died rather than the aggregate number of mortality - since it is just as possible that higher SOFA score patients in both groups died, just that there were less of them in the Vitamin C group.
The secondary data would be consistent with this: the SOFA scores for the (surviving) placebo patients dropped more than the Vitamin C, for example, ending up lower overall.
This doesn't mean Vitamin C does not help - but it does mean that the CITRIS study *does not* clearly show benefit as has been talked about.
I do think Dr. Fowler (the presenter above) is genuine, but being honest, being a licensed and experienced doctor and understanding statistics aren't all the same thing.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 18 2020 13:28 utc | 248

ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 13:26 utc | 248 You look for antelope in antelope country, not zebra.

Hey, maybe you can help me out, I saw this on the wall...and wonder what it means, if anything> иди нахуй себе товарищ

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 13:35 utc | 249

Another item that wasn't talked about enough re: Diamond Princess
About half of the people who were infected and tested, did not show symptoms. Interestingly, those under 20 and the really old were less likely to show symptoms (assuming they didn't go into respiratory failure).
What does this mean?
It means that the likelihood of nCOV being out and about, in significant numbers, all over the world, is extremely high - and that stopping it isn't just a matter of "shelter in place". It is likely the draconian measures China has enacted will be necessary: not only the lockdown part, but the tracking of every infected person and testing everyone they have met.
Western democracies are simply not equipped to do this - temperamentally, government-wise or capability/skill wise.
I am revising my personal estimates down - the lockdowns in the US will fail; there will be reoccurrence and we'll see more lockdowns plus more draconian measures unless the temperature effect on transmission is very significant.
Even then, it just means we'll have the reoccurrence in the fall, after the election.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 18 2020 13:35 utc | 250

kladice and Kerry

Just a strain of the SARS virus collect sometime prior to 2013 in Vietnam and patented incase it could be used in or as a vaccine against SARS.
Fucking clowns.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 13:38 utc | 251

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 13:35 utc | 250

Stick to your own delusions mate!

I think the virus leaked out of the BSL4 lab in Wuhan. Once the Chinese govt knew, it tried to cover it up. Can't let such a thing known to the public, would it.. But it got out of control before they could get a hold over it. Now they are on to blaming the Americans for releasing the virus in China. Sure, that looks so very likely especially when the Americans don't have any defence (vaccine) against it.

My 2c - the CCP fcked up, tried to cover it up - fkced that up also. Now they are blaming the Muricans. Who was it that said offence is the best defence.

Posted by: ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 13:41 utc | 252

c1ue | Mar 18 2020 13:35 utc | 251 yes, I think it's un containable. You're right, I think

Mark Sleboda thinks so too.

"Mark Sleboda
This whole #coronavirus situation might make more sense to people once they understand that nearly every govt in the worlds' policy right now is NOT based on preventing spread of the virus. Whether they admit that or not. They've long since given up on that possibility. 1/- "

You might want to read the series of 7 remarks sleboda's made on the topic. His background is nuclear submarines...the guy's tough and smart and in the know - and a Russian now, formerly USN.

just put his name in a searchengine and select...for twit.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 13:41 utc | 253

ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 13:41 utc | 253

Pax vobiscum. Opinionum commenta delet dies, naturae judicia confirmat.

But you're looking at the thing backwards 'cause there ain't no zebra.

Of course one assumes you'll follow your own advice.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 13:47 utc | 254

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 13:47 utc | 255

Which one is more likely - that the Chinese accidentally released (leakage) the virus from their only BSL4 level lab in Wuhan (20km from the supposed hotspot) or the Americans released the virus in China knowing that they themselves have no defence against it.

Maybe there is no antelope or even a zebra there mate! You might be imagining a lot of things that just aren't there

Posted by: ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 13:54 utc | 255

I will be interested to see how we go here in Australia if an outbreak will occur and what the response will be if that happens. Tracking here has been very good right from the start. Back when this thing in China was first making the news, I had to ring for an ambulance for my wife. First thing I was asked was has she been to China or been in contact with anyone who has recently been to China. At the time I thought they were nuts and completely over the top about the flue hype.
Australia seems to have followed what China has been doing very closely and learning from it rather than tagging along behind the US.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 13:55 utc | 256

I have noticed that people see evolution of viruses only as a matter of mutation and selection. But the main generator of variety in evolution is recombination and while it may be less dominant with viruses I am sure it is an important factor. Recombination with whatever else is floating around during replication. It can be parts of another virus (when it's crowded in the cell).

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Mar 18 2020 14:01 utc | 257


If it was a virus escaped from the Wuhan lab, all China would have to do to cover it is say they have found the strain in a bat or pangolin or whatever at the market. They have not done so. To the contrary, they are saying they have tested and the strains dont match this one.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 14:11 utc | 258

Talking about testing and test kits is, in the USA at least, a cynical joke.

The medical practice I patronize -- several MDs and additional PA-Cs -- has no test kits and doesn't anticipate ever getting any. Consequently, it cannot diagnose COVID-19. My workplace offers 2 weeks of sick leave (I work in a supermarket; otherwise I have no sick leave at all) if I'm diagnosed, but who can diagnose me?

In my job I come into contact with lots of people -- no doubt lots of infected people -- but also (including?) nurses from the local hospital. Do they know where one can be tested for COVID-19? "Somewhere out west, I think" is the response. Needless to say, the reported number of COVID-19 cases in the USA is utterly fraudulent, and no doubt is or at least will be one hell of a lowball figure.

There are only a few hundred thousand test kits for the entire USA. Barely enough for the 1%. The rest of us get vague promises in the hope that we will die soon before we can force the PTB to make good on any of them.

Posted by: corvo | Mar 18 2020 14:19 utc | 259

ancientidiot @256

Which is more likely, that the US created the Mujahedin in Afghanistan and then it flew airplanes into the World Trade Center, or that the Soviets created the headchoppers for that purpose?

America shot itself in the foot with its own weapon in both cases where the headchoppers and the covid are concerned. America has lots of self-inflicted bullet holes in its feet these days.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 18 2020 14:20 utc | 260

@ Peter, William, thank you both kindly.

Wally is inclined to the opinion that he has finished with the gentleman in quo supra, so to say. And he imagines you may come to a somewhat similar opinion.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 14:24 utc | 261

ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 11:45 utc | 217

I really can't see why people are not blaming the Chinese. Their culture for eating all sorts of animals - bats, rats, dogs, scorpions, snakes and what not from which come all sorts of diseases and then the whole world suffers. Why do so many viruses come out of China? Why are their wet markets so unhygienic? And now, they want to appear as saviours to the world and get our thanks!

You already discredited yourself by expressing your disgust here. Bear in mind most of western people eat pigs, which are considered unclean by both Judaism and Islam. Many people would think a culture that eats unclean animals can be a source of various plagues, the only difference is which animals are considered unclean.

Which one is more likely - that the Chinese accidentally released (leakage) the virus from their only BSL4 level lab in Wuhan (20km from the supposed hotspot) or the Americans released the virus in China knowing that they themselves have no defence against it.

I find it entirely plausible that some folks were too dumb to understand that a virus will come to their country eventually, especially with "they die first" or "oops, I screwed again" mentality.

Having said that, I do not fully associate myself with either of "natural" or "weapon" camps. So far most known facts can be explained with "natural" theory, however some info, like "pandemic bonds" mentioned by Pft stink as hell.

Posted by: pppp | Mar 18 2020 14:25 utc | 262

Posted by: ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 13:54 utc | 256

No reliable way to get good probability estimates for those events being true but it is a bit fun jawboning about it.

In the end, We are just passengers on the Snowpiercer.

What is happening inside the train caboose is anybodies guess but sometimes the door is slightly open. From that we know that collateral damage is never an issue for them. As was mention on this thread, 5 Trillion dollar bailout that is in the works which certainly is more than worth the slight headaches it might cause them at night.

Posted by: corvo | Mar 18 2020 14:19 utc | 260

This is not aimed at you, but Reality is a Bitch. I seethe with anger thinking that the US sunk a trillion in the F-35 while the US doesn't have basics for when a pandemic breaks out. One person from New York was talking about his wife's working conditions in a hospital. She had to go and look for a N95 mask !!! Along the way the guy mentioned that in his town tap water is unsafe to drink (infrastructure). You hear stuff like this and it just pis.......

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 14:33 utc | 263

@6 james:
My response to you was deleted, so yes, we disagree and I probably will be alive in a month to talk to;)

@22 kiawi
I am seeing the generational gap in response to this as well. Thanks for the comment, kiawi:)

@88 Likklemore:
I just waited for a day to see if the deletion of my comments were a technical error that you made me wonder about:)

@146 Snake:
"maybe these missing posts are not even reaching b for a removal decision"
That's interesting, I never thought of a third party. But b would have said something by now, right?

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 18 2020 14:34 utc | 264

Hope Dr Campbell will explain what kind of Big Pharma issue is behind this statement

Posted by: Mina | Mar 18 2020 14:41 utc | 265

Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 14:33 utc | 264 They claim the legal right to kill anybody, anywhere, including their "own" people... The idea, (and it is a real phuckin bitch!) is that we are their fodder, until we become wolves... That's the reason, Wally overheard down at the Dewdrop Inn when those two fellas, Penguin and Rongway, were talking too loud, that's the reason the army does zombie drills... yeah. really a bitch.
It's their game an' we're "it".

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 14:42 utc | 266

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 14:42 utc | 269

It's their game an' we're "it".


Time for a Cuba Libre tonight :-)

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 14:47 utc | 267

@ Peter, William

Why do you think the US shot itself in the foot on the Mujahideen?
It got rid of the Soviets and maybe they contributed to the demise of that adversary which is the strongest opponent that uncle sam has faced yet.

But they got the mujahideen (they blamed al-qaeda and the taliban whose genesis is from pakistan madrasas, but let's not split hairs here) to take the blame for 911 and their defence industry has benefited from a couple of decades of $1 trillion budgets. The Americans are now present all over the middle east - who (among the 0.01%) cares about the plebs that die - both american and sand-niggers as they call the natives. Do you call that shooting your own feet? No, they (rather their deep state) have gained massively from the creation of the mujahideen - both in terms of geographical occupation as well as money for the top 0.01% (which is all that matters). yea, and I forgot about the massive surveillance state that has been instituted in the States because .. Terrorism! The mujahideen creation has proved to be unendingly beneficial to the US deep state.

Posted by: ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 14:48 utc | 268

Peter AU1 (in particular) but generally, Sleboda's line is> MarkSleboda1
Mar 17
6/- panic buying, bank runs, suicides, civilians killing each other, crime, exploitation, chances of mass civil unrest & revolution etc.
ie preserve & stabilize their society as much as possible during the crisis

(we already have frogs, locusts, eclipses, mass sponge migrations, (well, maybe))

Yes, Wally agrees, gunna be a crises in da city...much less at Wally's LZ. No worries!

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 14:51 utc | 269

Posted by: ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 14:40 utc | 266

I don't know exactly what aspect of it is an issue but it is the HTML tags. I had comments Preview and then disappear in the past so that now I save them before posting. Browser could be the issue but I had the problem even if I reloaded Firebox.

When they disappear I eliminate all use of HTML Tags.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 14:51 utc | 270

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 14:51 utc | 273

There I go again. Finger flying too fast.

Firebox ---> Firefox

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 14:52 utc | 271

Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 14:47 utc | 270

Viva Fidel! Viva Che, Viva Bolivar! Viva Marx, Lenin, Mao. And Jesus - the commie from way back!

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 14:52 utc | 272

From your link.
"The European Medicines Agency said on Wednesday that there is no scientific evidence showing that the widely used anti-inflammatory drug ibuprofen worsens the effects of coronavirus.
In a statement, the agency said it wanted to dispel incorrect information circulating on social media.

"There is currently no scientific evidence establishing a link between ibuprofen and worsening of COVID-19," the agency said, referring to the disease caused by the new coronavirus.

"When starting treatment for fever or pain in COVID-19, patients and healthcare professionals should consider all available treatment options" including ibuprofen and related drugs.."
The piece looks correct. There is nothing in the stats showing Ibuprofen gives a poorer outcome.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 18 2020 14:53 utc | 273

Thanks Tom!
It worked after I removed the link to the zerohedge article

Posted by: ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 14:55 utc | 274

@ Posted by: ancientarcher | Mar 18 2020 13:54 utc | 256

Except for the fact that we already know that, in modern times, a pandemic happens every hundred years on average. The last one was the Spanish Flu in 1918, so it was due time for another one.

The WHO already knew another pandemic would happen. The difficulty lies in the fact we don't know where and when exactly, and which kind of virus it will be. But everybody concerned knew a pandemic would happen (and will happen again, and again, and again, until the extinction of the homo sapiens).

Common guys, where's your climate change denialism investigative powers when we need them!

Posted by: vk | Mar 18 2020 14:57 utc | 275

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 14:52 utc | 275

Now you got me started.

"And Jesus - the commie from way back!"

Yeh, but his Spirit had max 14% so the crowd was not too impressed.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 14:58 utc | 276

As for France (French here) :
- according to ourworldindata (based upon WHO data): as for today, French authorities have performed ±11 000 (168 per million inhab.) so far. France has ±6 500 confirmed cases, with a roughly 18% increased since yesterday day and 148 deaths. In comparison, Russia has performed 166 000 tests so far and has ±100 confirmed cases and 0 death so far. Shall we call it 'mismanagement' ? (
- Confinement in France is just like the US and the UK : stay with your family. We'll probably hold family coronavirus parties soon. Virus spread as usual.
- The whole health system is under tremendous pressure and about to collapse. Death toll to rise.
- There are already spreads of violence and criminality. The gov is thinking about bringing the army on streets.
- Last Monday, Agnès Buzyn, former Health Secretary (she has resigned last month) has declared to Le Monde newspaper that she was aware of cases of pneumopathies in China since last December and alerted French health authorities. Since then she has covered up and constantly lied (concerted gov scheme, as it appears). Shall we call it 'mismanagement' ? According to French law, she - and the Prime (the President is granted immunity when incumbent) may be indicted and face trial for their responsibility in what the law sees as homicide.
- Last Monday, Macron has announced in its public speech addressing the nation that a 'bill of exception' will be introduced today (I.e. Wednesday) and voted tomorrow. Nobody knows what the bill is in details and why this bill is necessary since we do have numerous plans and laws we could trigger when the nation is under threat. I'm excepting the worse since this gov has a clear neoliberal agenda and is determined to continue whatever the cost. I'm afraid that in their eyes, the coronavirus crisis is a perfect opportunity. It may also protect the gov from prosecution.

Posted by: Eric Dufau | Mar 18 2020 15:07 utc | 277

: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 14:58 utc | 279

Yes, indeed, Jesus preached, they say, only to Jews...although as now, there is a family of relations, so say "Jack Jews, as "Jack-Mormon" (and Wally seriously hopes that's not a hurtful turn of phrase for anyone) (a jack- (any religion) is a member who strays from the true to say - for non-native murkinenglish speakers). The "Jacks" are the we know, not the bankers who can't slip thru the narrow gates...

William Pepper, QC, I have heard say MLK was the "agent" (anointed, chosen) sent by God to offer America the right way...and of course they shot him in the mouth (they did) and smothered him in hospital when he did not die.

Wally could add more to the "agents" list...Malcolm for one.

But about agent of another sort...just for fun>

“I have absolute proof from a Pentagon document that the Center of Disease Control (CDC) was doing bio-warfare work for the Pentagon in Sierra Leone, the heart of the outbreak, as early as 1988. Why would they do that? As I suggested to try to circumvent the Biological Weapons Convention to which the US government is a party. So, always bio-warriors do use offensive and defensive bio-warfare work, violating the Biological Weapons Convention. So effectively they try to offshore it into West Africa where Liberia is not a party and Guinea is not a party. Sierra Leone is a party. But in Sierra Leone and Liberia there were disturbances which kept the world from really paying attention of what was going on in these labs.[4]”
Francis Boyle US Bio-warfare Laboratories In West Africa Are The Origins Of The Ebola Epidemic

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 15:10 utc | 278

Thanks for the French summary. The Belgians have just introduced mandatory stay at home but they recommend going out for exercise!! Simply more intelligent than the French... It is beyond me they cannot organize to filter the entrance to parks and have ca 20-30 ppl in a park at one time if they are afraid of crowds.
The military way they inforce measures shows the real face of this gov.

Peter: Dr Campbell discussed an announcement by French dr, minister of health, saying anti-inflammatory were dangerous in this case. I had read the same a couple of days/weeks ago... here I believe.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 18 2020 15:21 utc | 279

Totally laughable, San Francisco. They can't even stop people from defecating in the streets- and they are going to stop this virus? Same with L.A.

Posted by: Morongobill | Mar 18 2020 15:23 utc | 280

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 15:10 utc | 281

Too bad Jesus didn't have Jack Daniel's (percentage of alcohol is 35%). Now that stuff would whip up even the crowd on MoA.

Back to Africa, yes Empire of Lies is not there to build schools and wells. I noticed their announcement of AFRICON to be in sync with the ever growing presence of China on that unfortunate continent. To be a Chinese in Africa is to be in the cross-hairs of a gun. I suspect a lot goes on but is blown off as "illnesses".

Posted by: Tom_LX | Mar 18 2020 15:25 utc | 281

@ Posted by: Jen | Mar 18 2020 10:15 utc | 201

The study mentioned in your link is not peer-reviewed.

Nevertheless, it is completely inconclusive. It only used 2,000 patients, and only the death cases - even a 63% swing can easily be classified as statistical fluctuation. Could it be that blood-type A is simply dominant in the Asian countries?

The most probable case this study was even considered in China is the East-Asian culturally ingrained obsession with blood types. They think blood types have magical/spiritual properties and like to do horoscope-type classifications and descriptions of what personality is equivalent to each blood type. It's a pop culture thing, which Asian scientists end up absorbing in their subconsciousness.

Posted by: vk | Mar 18 2020 15:43 utc | 282

Tom_LX > Illness see "Dr Mary's Monkeys" and conjure up the ghosts of Evo and Fidel and, oh hell, Jack Ruby, and ask'em where they got cancer... Youbetcha.

Heard a good line though...

Tonto: "Kimosabe, America have bad luck."

Ranger: "Why, Tonto, we are good and pure..."

Tonto (interruptin): "If you say so, Kimosabe, but you're building on a sacred Indian burial ground."

Every goddamn square millimeter..Wally has looked up the real History of California. All stole. Generally at gunpoint or by murder, terrorism is as mother's milk in our glorious history.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 15:43 utc | 283

@ 175 jackrabbit... the reason, at least in the usa, for this to happen is to go back to that mintpress article - US Intel Agencies Played Unsettling Role in Classified and “9/11-like” Coronavirus Response Plan wherein it notes how the military leaders are in the drivers seat.. not the virologists... it makes sense when you consider it in this context.. but ultimately you and i are going to see this differently here, as i think accidents happen and this is one of them and you are going to say it was consciously planned.. so, we will have to agree to disagree for the time being! cheers..

@ 177 a user... sorry, but it looks like the post didn't make it thru.. i am still curious why is what i say not to your liking?? here is the line that you wanted to challenge.. "what is wrong with showing some prudence in light of the fact our hospitals are already running at 100% capacity??" looking forward to your response!!

@ 265 sharon m.. yes, i happened to notice your posts were deleted and some aren't getting thru.. i am mystified why.. hopefully this doesn't continue.. moa remains a fairly civil place to express different viewpoints.. i can't see that changing based on b's actions..

i think it all gets more complicated and not easy to pin down when the thought of this being a bio weapon gets broached.. there is no getting around that unfortunately.. the issue over fort merrick closing, war games with americans in wuhan last fall, and etc. etc. etc. are going to be hard to dispel.. thus, we are all going to have different viewpoints on this.. i think my thing which i addressed earlier is this - "@ 138 allen.. i watched it... i was okay with it up til the very last part... it seems to me the covid 19 thing is backed up by doctors saying this particular virus is at least 10X worse then a regular flu...dr wolfgang wodarg doesn't make any mention of that... tell me what i am missing here... thanks for sharing the video..." still waiting on a response from allen..

Posted by: james | Mar 18 2020 16:04 utc | 284

james says:

... tell me what i am missing here...

that numbers are commutable, and that to express an opinion all one needs are vocal cords.

Posted by: john | Mar 18 2020 16:19 utc | 285

Dr. Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, is calling for a NATIONAL QUARANTINE for the USA.

He argues this is what is needed to avoid getting to the Italian scenario where healthcare facilities are overwhelmed.

Jha states,

"Our hospitals and emergency rooms are not ready. We have two choices. Basically we can either have a national quarantine now, two weeks, get a grip on where things are, then reassess," Dr. Jha said during an appearance on MSNBC's Morning Joe on Tuesday.

"Or we can not, wait another week and when things look really terrible, be forced into it and that's going to last much longer, many more people will die. So those are really our two choices—get ahead of it or wait until we're even further behind."


Posted by: ak74 | Mar 18 2020 16:21 utc | 286

Peter,I highly dispute your assesment over this. No point you throwing insult around when you don't understand a language! Clearly in the document description on page 3 it is written: "

[0001] La présente invention est relative à une nouvelle souche de coronavirus associé au syndrome respiratoire aigu
sévère (SRAS), issue d’un prélèvement répertorié sous le n° 031589 et prélevé à Hanoi (Vietnam), à des molécules
d’acide nucléique issues de son génome, aux protéines et peptides codés par lesdites molécules d’acide nucléique ainsi
qu’à leurs applications, notamment en tant que réactifs de diagnostic et/ou "

This clearly stated the présent invention with to me means that someone what up to something. In addition the document stated clearly that the French PASTEUR INSTITUT has got a working cure of the COVI-19 tested on Rabbit! You ough to downloading the document and translate it in English instead of treating people as clowns ! To me you are the fucking idiot, if only you could open your brain to what is in the patented document!

Posted by: Kladice | Mar 18 2020 16:29 utc | 287

@ 288 john.. what did you think of the video that @ 138 allen left? here it is again..

Posted by: james | Mar 18 2020 16:31 utc | 288

@ Duran dot com "Coronavirus: The Plot Thickens" time-line, with certaim implications...

also National Science Review "On the origin and continuing evolution of SARS-CoV-2 "

Wally saw Keiser Reort say "GIABO" global insurrection against banker occupation, listed as rising at 14% per year, in form of public demonstrations etc...

Those sure came to a halt! For now. Later the "rioters" will be called "zombies" and shot on sight as infection vectors...they have trained for it...will they? Well, if Stumpy Zevon's bookies were alive I doubt they'd take a bet against it.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 16:32 utc | 289

Good Morning Walter! You sure got up early and had to quickly grab your epee keyboard. Interesting that the Wiki page on William O. Douglas omits that book from its bibliography. Fortunately, The Archive has a copy I borrowed long enough to read the Forward and scan the Table of Contents. Certainly a well meaning but naïve man based upon his words in the Forward. Plenty of used copies available from $3-4, but he admits he didn't write it for historians but for the Common Man. Perhaps when I clear out a goodly portion of my in-box I'll take the time to read it. Interesting organization, an almanac indeed.

I see the examples of Deep Moral Decay caused by Greed continue to be exposed, this time in Italy. I'm sure you recall the person who coined the phrase--There ought to be a law--but I can't place him. My point being the entire aspect of money/profit motive must be removed from medicine and healthcare as it's clearly deeply immoral. I think Justice Douglas would agree.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 18 2020 16:39 utc | 290

@Peter AU1 #257
Asking if a person requesting an ambulance has been to China - nothing special about that.
I'm talking about stationing people in front of every apartment building and requiring permits to go in or get out.
I'm talking about unilateral travel restrictions between cities: rail, car, air including road blocks where every car is stopped and people are openly tracked via their cell phones and special apps.
I'm talking roving groups of people asking random people on the street where they're going and why.
Are you seeing this in Australia? Because if not, Australia isn't going by the China playbook.
The "shelter in place" in the Bay Area just started last night so I can't say yet what it really looks like, but I'm 100% sure it won't be a fraction of what China is doing.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 18 2020 16:42 utc | 291

@Kladice #290
A working cure based on how much testing?
I am extremely skeptical over any announcements of cures. There are potential treatments, sure, but the possibility of a treatment that both works and is safe is nonexistent at this point in time.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 18 2020 16:45 utc | 292

@ Posted by: c1ue | Mar 18 2020 16:42 utc | 294

Indeed, the concept of "self-quarantine" is a myth. People don't obey them (even more so in the West, where, for cultural-ideological reasons, freedom of the individual is sacred and highly association with freedom of movement).

Western governments indeed begun to fight the epidemic with good heart: they first passed instructions so people with symptoms or old age would stay in their homes voluntarily. Japan did the same with the passengers of the Diamond.

Obviously, that didn't work.

Then they begun to prohibit gatherings of more than x people. This policy was pure pseudo-science and guessing, and each Western nation chose a number that seemed taken out of some politician's ass: Switzerland chose 500, other country chose 1,000, other chose 100 and so on.

Obviously that didn't work either.

Then they begun to close infrastructure they could control: schools, public transportation, etc. The problem with this is: the virus doesn't care about societal conventions, it doesn't matter if the infected person is in school, at home, at a gym, at a shopping mall or in the street etc. It simply infects. The virus also doesn't care about your ideology or your religion: it will infect your libertarian/Christian ass if it can, freedom or no freedom, God or godless.

Needless to say, this half-arsed policy didn't work. At all. It just changed the main point of infection: from public spaces to intra-family. Fraticide became the route for the virus to spread and prosper.

It was only after the private sector (i.e. the capitalist class) of the Western countries realized the thing was indeed serious that the Western governments had a free hand to enforce total lockdown. When it happened? My guess is the second week of the Dow Jones meltdown, right after the geniuses of the Fed realized ZIRP would solve zilch. That "coincided" with the WHO's decision (the morning after) to declare the COVID-19 a pandemic.

You westerners spent 300 years jerking off about freedom/liberalism. Well, now you're the capitalists' slaves. Pray for them to extend you some crumbs on their hands to from now on, because that's your new lifestyle.

Posted by: vk | Mar 18 2020 16:59 utc | 293

: karlof1 | Mar 18 2020 16:39 utc | 293

G'morinin Dr K.

I agree... I was in youth treated to private and expert opinion about many Judges, including Douglass. Indeed, he seems naive...the book, as does (in my opinion) also Beard's Republic. Thurgood Marshall was in that orbit considered to be a very poor example, as was Douglass. I liked Otto Kaus (California supreme court) - met him in Rome a million years ago. I could tell you over beer how Polanksi got it, and how they did Sirhan...

O' Mores, O' Tempora! (you're right)

We're screwed. What sort of revolution will now beset us remains to the near future, but we're sliding down the glacis and the boiling oil and corpses are, it seems, not far away. It's irretrievably fat in fire time, however it was triggered.

Personally, Wally is unwilling to pay the price of a fishing license, which is a birthright imho, but hopes the State will suspend the fish an game laws for a's 3000 feet of forest and field to the big muddy of da-westcoast, and it's pretty clean water, small-mouth bass, cats, ... an' some nice creeks too. Bald eagles nest a few miles upstream - so plenty fishy.

Wally intends to spend Armageddon fishing, possibly with a jug.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 18 2020 17:06 utc | 294

james @ 291

yeah, thanks. isn't he saying, in an informed and methodological manner, exactly what i said?

Posted by: john | Mar 18 2020 17:29 utc | 295

james @287:

... go back to that mintpress article ... wherein it notes that military leaders are in the drivers seat.. not the virologists... it makes sense when you consider it in this context.. but ultimately you and i are going to see this differently here, as i think accidents happen and this is one of them and you are going to say it was consciously planned.. so, we will have to agree to disagree for the time being! cheers..

No. Military leaders are NOT in the drivers seat. The article says that National Security Council (NSC) is running the show and coordinating with Pentagon and other agencies.

And you seem to be think that leaders of the national security state would make decisions on the merits without considering the economic and political landscape, and certainly without playing games that would benefit certain private interests. I think you should reconsider that. Rescuing Boeing and Wall Street would likely be considered in the national interest - and doing so in a stealthy way (masked by a "national emergency" from a virus panic) would be considered simply not letting a crisis go to waste.

PS There was a time when I wasn't so cynical. But when you recognize that neoliberalism, neoconservativism, and zionism are driving our political elites and their EMPIRE adventurism, then you come to expect that they will play games at our expense.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 18 2020 17:51 utc | 296

Walter @297--

This is the longest into the year I've gone before buying my licenses as I've usually gone fishin' at least once by now. Ocean's been nice recently, too.

Going to look at economic consequences, which will be dependent on how long it takes for the coronavirus to lose its novelness. I'm somewhat optimistic that will occur by the end of March and the world will soon return to work as vaccine trials commence.

Meanwhile, as if he hadn't already proved himself, Tom Perez is now a confirmed Immoral Disaster, a condition that ought to be extended to the entire D-Party.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 18 2020 18:00 utc | 297

Lugnut @222: "Young children also don't use cell phones."

Actually, a lot of them are addicted to games they play on cell phones. No doubt a minority of small children, but I have a five-year-old nephew who simply can't be pried away from his iPhone. I also see kids in my workplace (a supermarket) playing on cell phones -- no doubt so Mom can have a moment of peace while picking through what's left on our shelves.

Posted by: corvo | Mar 18 2020 18:13 utc | 298

Walter | Mar 18 2020 10:20 utc | 203

Sorry, the two workers are construction engineers, and as far as they were told, have been given a vaccine. When I told them ..."no way, boys, there's no such thing yet, its still in development!" they just insisted that it is what they were told. I found it curious because they are convinced that everybody there was getting the vaccine.

Posted by: D | Mar 18 2020 18:27 utc | 299

Not impossible yet for the Democrims to make a comeback. Heard lovely rumor they will talk up public banking, as in...

Bring back Postal Banking!

Pres. Taft campaigned on it, was fought by the bankers proposing the a Federal Reserve, got elected 1908 and made it happen. US Postal Savings was wildly successful.

Taft failed to get re-elected in 1912 when ex-Republican Pres Ted Roosevelt ran as Bull Moose 3rd-party, splitting away the Republican Taft vote. and Democrat W Wilson won. Within 1 year the Ferderal Reserve System of private-banking was established.
The secretly-syphilitic [per a genuine fly-on-wall] Wilson did what he was hired to do via powerful influence from banker Warburg et al.. AFAIK, his "disability" has never been publicly disseminated.
The rest is just more, sordid history.

Bring back Postal Banking!

PS-it's been a long time connecting the dots.

Posted by: chu teh | Mar 18 2020 18:42 utc | 300

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