Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 15, 2020

2020 Presidential Election Thread 05

There is a debate tonight.

Matt Taibbi has some thoughts about it:

Bernie’s Last Chance
Heading into a one-on-one debate with Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders should not go gentle into that good night

Please keep anything related to the election in this thread.

Posted by b on March 15, 2020 at 17:36 UTC | Permalink

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although i have "covid news fatigue" from the increasingly screechy 24/7 coverage, i do have to wonder how this will influence the election now and into the unforeseeable future. from audience-free debates to sparse caucus and rally attendance to possible election day issues should this drag on through the spring and summer.

it's also possible that by predominantly affecting the elderly it could wipe out most of biden's constituency. it's like the "ok boomer" of diseases. i kid. mostly.

as for bernie, he's a spineless doormat and will act as such. if he balked at bringing up clinton's emails (and countless other acts of corruption) i doubt he'll make the necessary attacks on biden's dementia (and countless other acts of stupidity).

Posted by: the pair | Mar 15 2020 17:45 utc | 1

Bernie Sanders is not a political candidate. He is an evangelical Socialist ideologue.

He has no personality to battle opponents. He makes proclamations of his ideology.

He has never "fought back".

He has no instinct for debating. He believes, therefore, in his mind, he is correct. He expects others to follow his lead.

He has never been a real candidate. He was a distraction, a Pied Piper, for dopey students and young people who latched onto his notions.

When you offer free rewards and your turnout goes down, you are over as a "candidate".

Biden is brain damaged. He is a very dangerous stalking horse for the return of the Magic Negro, Obama, and the sociopathic Hillary Clinton.

If Biden wins in November, expect more war and a very long recession. Social chaos will look racial, but it will be a battle for the Second Amendment, Free Speech, and Traditional Values versus the Soulless Liberalism intended to establish Feudalism 'round the globe.

Everything in the Dem Primary and Convention is rigged. Bernie never had a chance. He could care less. He never expected to be President. He just wanted big crowds to listen to his Polemics.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Mar 15 2020 17:48 utc | 2

I'm surprised the DNC didn't cancel the debate. They have the perfect pretext even though the real reason would be not to have to put a meatloaf behind the podium. Sanders would have seconded the motion even though a real candidate trying to win would condemn it.

Oh well, behind closed doors he probably promised the DNC he'd treat the burned-out bulb with kid gloves. They might even have a script prepared.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 15 2020 18:05 utc | 3

What Bernie can do tonite is what many fear he will not do because of his belief that he will lose Democrat party support in Vermont if he goes hard at Biden. Probably he hopes Biden will expose himself as a Mr. Magoo and he won't have to point out the obvious. From Pam Ho Impeachment For Dummies: or How progressives were conned into supporting Joe Biden for President

Posted by: Kali | Mar 15 2020 18:07 utc | 4

thanks b... that article by matt taibbi is bang on... so sad... i can't see bernie doing anything different in this last debate.. nor can i see the democrat party doing anything different - axing tulsi from the conversation.... so sad.. it shows what a farce the usa political system is here....

Posted by: james | Mar 15 2020 18:17 utc | 5


The guy is 78, what makes you think he cares about Vermont ... trying for the first 100-year-old Senator? He’s never been able to do anything in Congress anyway. His big shot was spoiled by the Wicked Witch of the East. He would be President now, if not for her.

Posted by: SteveK9 | Mar 15 2020 18:25 utc | 6

and Traditional "vulture capitalistic" Values versus the Soulless "vulture capitalism" intended to maintain Feudalism 'round the globe.

@#2 There I fixed it for you since you think the mayhem that treats people like sh*t works well for you and your rich friends.

If voting made a difference, it would have been outlawed. Mark Twain

Posted by: Tonymike | Mar 15 2020 18:38 utc | 7

Bernie has fought long and hard. Look at his record, he has fought and succeeded in accomplishing more for the people than any other politician.

What everyone is assuming is that if Bern becomes an ugly asshole just like all the others before him TPTB would allow him to be the candidate or god forbid the POTUS. NEVER gunna happen!

There is only one way We The People can get the representation we need and want it to come out and state in the clearest possible way that Dems and Repubs are serving the same masters with the same basic agenda and represent one party. We must then form a new party and put everything we have behind it. It has to be a radical revolution and Bernie has made it clear that he will fight for all of us. Which by the way is exactly what all the top Dems are saying we don't need. Him getting elected under existing conditions would change NOTHING and he knows it. Forcing him to go

People who put all of the responsibility for achieving this on Bernies shoulders are ignorant chicken shits that don't deserve anything better than Biden, Cliton, Trump.

Posted by: jef | Mar 15 2020 18:46 utc | 8

#6 Bernie has a long standing deal with the Democrats to play nice or they will do all they can to ruin him. What else explains his reluctance to go after Biden like he should have earlier in the campaign? Either way, we will see what happens, maybe he will go after him, maybe not. I think he won't. I hope he does.

Posted by: Kali | Mar 15 2020 18:48 utc | 9

The people saying Bern needs to get down and dirty are those who think the system works. It don't.

Posted by: jef | Mar 15 2020 18:50 utc | 10

If the AMA had hired Edward Bernays in 1952 to devise a press campaign to demonize the idea of national healthcare he'd have said “Call it socialized medicine.”
If hired by the DNC in 2020 to do the same thing he'd say “Have a guy champion it loudly and call himself a socialist.” And if he were asked also to roll back what progress had been made in that direction he'd have said “Have that same guy call it Medicare for all”

The sad thing is that Sen. Sanders may not even know he's controlled opposition. Maybe he's like a pumpkin that grew in a bottle shaped like Mickey Mouse.
What if the DNC gave him a bottle to grow in shaped like a New Deal Democrat, and then they asked Bernays how to make him a buffoonish mascot. Bernays would say ”Have him call himself the revolutionary leader of a great movement and then pledge his support to whomever the DNC selects to challenge Donald Trump “

Where this Yosemite Sam rodeo clown act stops being harmless entertainment is when the DNC trundles out its ersatz “Democratic ticket” and it’s Obama-Buttigieg or what's more likely: Clinton-Schiff.

Then the Bernie faithful will sigh:
“Oh well, we really made great progress. After all socialism and healthcare are now part of the public discourse! Tally Ho, it’s back to work we go! With funding from the NED and the Ford Foundation or Pierre Omidyar, and four more years to organize we can really have a movement next time!
And anyway that Schiff seems kinda presidential don’tcha think?”

Good work Ed, thanks!

Posted by: NOBTS | Mar 15 2020 18:55 utc | 11

Thanks Red Rider @ 2. I had to look up what a stalking horse is. It's a cool term and also a real thing too for hunting (stalking). Thanks for using the term and expanding my vocabulary.

Posted by: Absurdio | Mar 15 2020 19:02 utc | 12

If Bernie is real; ie. not sheep-dogging for Hillary again, he can prove it by dropping out immediately and throwing his delegates to Tulsi. This is the only shot to thwart the convention designs of the Dame Named Clinton.
Hey Bernie! Throw a Hail Tulsi Pass now!

Posted by: NOBTS | Mar 15 2020 19:08 utc | 13

Most likely Sanders has already conceded privately and is going through the motions as a prelude to calling on his Bros to support Biden. His one chance is that even though he is playing nice guy to my-friend-Joe, Biden will be so addled that he will self-destruct. Any Biden brain farts will have to be severe enough to convince the media, otherwise they will cover it up with some excuse.

Personally I hope that does happen, but regardless of tonight's outcome, I find it hard to believe that the Dem "leaders" actually would put ol' Joe and the nation through the agony of watching Biden try to campaign against Trump - a contest he would definitely lose. My guess is that there are some neoliberal rabbits waiting to be pulled out of the convention's hat. Progressives should not put up with this kind of chicanery. If all the work people have done to support their candidates in the primaries is shown to be worthless, then the party will have hell to pay. Whatever rabbit is pulled from the hat, Elmer Fudd Trump will blow it to smithereens.

Posted by: Charles Dunaway | Mar 15 2020 19:17 utc | 14

#13 You are right, absolutely Tulsi would make mincemeat of Biden and the establishment and Trump. They know it. But Bernie has surrounded himself with people who see reality through an establishment lens, which means they look forward to a career in the establishment political job market. They have convinced Bernie to ignore Tulsi because of a variety of reasons 1. Some are neocons 2. Some are Hinduphobes 3. Some are both 4. The rest know the establishment is dead set against Tulsi because she is a revolutionary. So even though she would win easily if Bernie gave his support to Tulsi, I can't see him doing that. Let us pray he does because at this point we need a miracle to save us from either Trump, Biden, or some other establishment lackey.

Posted by: Kali | Mar 15 2020 19:20 utc | 15

not to worry. Fears over COVID -19 has delayed two primaries:
Georgia and Louisiana

and the great influencer of things, the Foreign people says

It’s Time to Cancel the U.S. Presidential Campaign as We Know It

Let’s get serious, America. It’s time to ask, during a time of plague, whether—and if so, in what form—democracy can continue as usual. The answer is likely to be disappointing. For the first time in the country’s history, the United States must contemplate canceling the Democratic and Republican national conventions and campaign rallies, and give serious consideration to arranging ways of organizing election day that don’t require in-person voting.[.]

Well, at least the campaigns could be less than the 18 months of yada, yada wall to wall. Other countries do their elections -from the campaign trail to voting day - in less than one month.

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 15 2020 19:21 utc | 16

Sanders has signaled his debate strategy - show the policy contrasts between the two, and that Biden is/was on the wrong side of history. Sanders has also stated clearly Trump is the existential threat and goal number #1 is to remove Trump from office. What Sanders doesn't understand is that his 'movement' is not about him, and his coattails will not translate into support for Biden from his supporters. Trump would have won in a landslide against Biden, but now with crashed markets (Trump's #1 priority) and pandemic which will kill many thousands of people, and leave exposed the immoral debauchery of the "American Way" expect a close election no matter who the Democrats pull out of their Convention hat - which I agree they will do. Biden is a dead-man walking.

Posted by: gottlieb | Mar 15 2020 19:25 utc | 17

@7 Tonymike,

"since you think the mayhem that treats people like sh*t works well for you and your rich friends."

Ideological knee-jerk comment, irrelevant and inaccurate ad hominem projection. (I have no rich friends and the system that exists doesn't much work for anyone. It's failing for the ultra wealthy right now. So hold your bullets, @7.)

I simply abhor Ideologies that have 'all the answers'. Socialism is one of many.

Presently, it looks like state managed capitalism like in China, Singapore, and where Russia is moving toward, has answers for lifting people up from poverty and for creating a middle class. "Looks like". Not is for certain. But assuredly, the mechanisms are useful to study, as many nations are doing. These are systems with little ideology in the workings of the economy. They are practical. What works. They examine the effectiveness, are eclectic, and adapt to what is successful.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Mar 15 2020 19:34 utc | 18

Bernie is never going to go on the offense and call out Biden wanting yo eviscerate social security or support the war in Iraq or supporting huge credit card fees and backing the Wall St bailouts.

That’s because Bernie’s role is as sheep dog. To herd the leftist sheep and twitterati to back the party establishment.

This primary is over. Obama is kingmaker. He’s running the show.

Posted by: ab initio | Mar 15 2020 19:36 utc | 19

Here is a preview of Joe Biden at tonight's debate. Although he was leaked the questions in advance, he is still not sounding cogent.

Posted by: Anonymouse | Mar 15 2020 19:36 utc | 20

Bernie is lying when he says Joe Biden is a decent man. Biden is a disgusting demented paedophile corporate tool warmonger, a just plain sorry a$$ excuse for a human.

Tells you a lot about Bernie that he's "good friends" with such a character.

Posted by: Trisha | Mar 15 2020 19:59 utc | 21

It's probably impossible to nail down definitions of commonly used labels anymore, and the language has been grossly perverted for propagandistic reasons, but it does irritate me that Bernie is called a socialist, that Dems are considered progressive, that Biden might be thought of as a Boomer, and that socialism is frequently defined as a top-down government-controlled economic system wherein all are forced to share.

I see socialism as people getting together to accomplish things that benefit both themselves and humanity. I see progressivism as an attempt to improve traditional inhumane conditions. And Biden is in the so-called Silent/Traditional generation as are all 74/75 to 94/95 years old. (Many of us are neither silent nor traditional, TYVM.)

Using labels to smear people, often inaccurately, is just lazy and prejudiced.

Posted by: dus7 | Mar 15 2020 20:07 utc | 22

The operative assumption is that the debate tonight matters.
Sure, Bloomberg was taken down in a debate - but it was manifestly clear that he was unprepared and generally arrogant about his entire campaign.
Whatever gaffes Biden makes won't matter, and whatever barbs Sanders sinks or doesn't, won't matter.
Tihs Democrat presidential nomination is about the moderates and the older vs. the radicals and the younger - the latter have lost.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 15 2020 20:09 utc | 23

Bernie, lol, another surrender monkey along the lines of Corbyn. The only reason this surrender monkey is in the race, is because 'self hating Jew' doesn't sell like 'antisemite' to the general public.

When socialists stand up for the citizenry, they will win.

Posted by: Ilya G Poimandres | Mar 15 2020 20:19 utc | 24

I don't trust Bernie. Too many mixed messages. Too gutless to stand up to the anti-commie slurs. Too unimaginative to dream up a way of putting the pro-"Israel" Lobby on notice (((M.E. Wars))). Trump said he'd drain the swamp which is a commendably confrontational way to begin a new Presidency. I want Sleepy Joe to get the DNC's nomination. Trump will make him look like an even stupider old fart than John McCain - RIH.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 15 2020 20:51 utc | 25

You have to look at what Bernie is actually taking on! In a word the establishment which feels they have the divine right to govern.

60 odd billionaires, the medical industrial complex, the fossil fuel industry , the military industrial complex, the prison industrial complex, the media, education versus small donations to Bernie right across the country.

The fact that he is still there is amazing and he has been pitted against all the establishment candidates two of which were ex Republicans Bloomberg and Warren and one must include Trump as a preferred candidate to Bernie.
They will throw everything at Bernie and manipulate and strategize to push him aside!
The money will now be poured in behind Biden who really is senile and if he loses an election against Trump well they still have Trump to keep them comfortable for another 4 years.

There is only one choice in this election. The consolidation of oligarchic power under Donald Trump or the consolidation of oligarchic power under Joe Biden. The oligarchs, with Trump or Biden, will win again. We will lose. The oligarchs made it abundantly clear, should Bernie Sanders miraculously become the Democratic Party nominee, they would join forces with the Republicans to crush him.

Posted by: michael lacey | Mar 15 2020 20:52 utc | 26

I've recently been carrying on turrible* about the fact that Bernie has attracted more well-meaning unsolicited advice and vicarious "coaching" from supporters, sympathetic pundits, and kibitzers than all of his past and present would-be competitors put together. This has been going on, albeit with peaks and valleys, since Bernie began his ill-fated campaign in 2016.

There ought to be a (sur)reality-TV show called "What Should Must Bernie Do?", in which sympathetic pundits and audience members recruited from the abovementioned pool offer competing advice to Bernie and Team Sanders; the unstated premises are that: 1) Bernie is the last, best hope for political salvation in 2020, and; 2) His campaign is highly appealing and generally successful, but it still needs a few tweaks to correct some persistent errors and flaws and finally "make it happen".

Coincidentally, I just sent my own link to the above-linked Taibbi piece to a correspondent as an example of this compulsive "ringside" shadowboxing and advice-yelling.

I'm not exactly invested in a partisan electoral process that is essentially a pro-wrestling style elimination tournament. But I think that this would-be bout may prove anticlimactic, to wit:

Both Biden and Sanders may end up playing pattycake instead of aggressively mock-debating and "fighting" because of the would-be virus crisis hanging over everybody's heads. You know, because they're both nice guy/mensch types who feel so bad about the situation that they would rather show some "unity" than go at each other the way Taibbi et al hopes.

Good luck to loyal, desperate Berniacs who truly hope that at long last, tonight a New! Improved! Bernie will roar out of the gate and carpe diem, undermining the shaky Biden with a devastating multi-pronged offense.

* Not a misspelling. In the colloquial expression used, that's how one spells "terrible". ;)

Posted by: Ort | Mar 15 2020 20:59 utc | 27

@28 Ort

Insightful comment as always, Ort:) Tulsi Gabbard should have done what Jill Stein did the last election, and had RT(or some youtube show) have her on live while the debate goes on between Bernie and Biden, answering the same questions posed to them. But I'm sure that's just too logical for war party candidates;)

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 15 2020 21:16 utc | 28

Bernie Sanders has had the same positions for years. We know them, and we know he really means them.

Banker Biden has advisers drafting new positions for him, all the time. He doesn't mean them even as he has people say them for him. He can't say them for himself, because he doesn't really even understand them.

We know what Bernie would do -- what he has always said he'd do.

We know what Biden would do -- whatever he is told to do.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Mar 15 2020 21:24 utc | 29

How come no one has accused James Clyburn of sheepdogging the black vote for Biden? Now that's what I call sheepdogging to rig the process!

Bernie is STILL in it to win it. Now, I along with everyone, hopes that Bernie fulsomely exposes Biden for the corporate shill with a racist history that he is.

Hell, I wish Bernie would invite Anita Hill as his debate guest to sit in the audience front row facing Biden, to unnerve and throw Biden off his game.

Alas, I don't think he'll go that far. However, Bernie has stood his ground since last Tuesday, and is still in it to win it, annoying the DNC an Bidenbots to no end with the great consecutive Presidential speeches he gave this week and his Fireside chat yesterday and online rally tomorrow. He's doing all this disregarding pressure to cave, because he knows that Biden is a DISASTROUS choice and not only does he want to spare people the inevitable outcome with Biden, the Titanic candidate, but Bernie's sure he can defeat Trump.

I'm convinced that if people are too stupid to see what's coming and continue to support Biden, Bernie will force himself to support Biden, because justifiably, like most people, he believes Trump's second term will be fascism unleashed and irreversible damage will result. But even Bernie's support will not help Biden, and at least one quarter to a half of Bernie supporters will not support Biden no matter what Bernie does and have trended #DemExit vowing a mass exodus from the Democratic Party.

The DNC and the propaganda media made a huge mistake erasing and opposing Bernie and pressuring Congressional endorsements to put their thumbs on the scale to fix this for Biden, when at this time all signs indicate Bernie is the candidate for this critical moment and he will defeat Trump. The DNC is repeating 2016 and will lose again with their fixed chosen candidate.

Even the Coronavirus showed up as if on cue to call everyone's attention the importance of M4A just when people are about to make a huge blunder putting Biden over the top. The seriousness of the future that lies in store demands that people at least have that kind of protection.



(Okay, now I have to scream; it's become a moral obligation!)

Posted by: Circe | Mar 15 2020 21:26 utc | 30

Red Ryder #2

"He has no personality to battle opponents."

Sanders never really wanted to win. And even if he didn't did the establishment would of never have permitted it.

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 15 2020 21:29 utc | 31


And even if he did the establishment would of never permitted it.

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 15 2020 21:31 utc | 32

John McAfee (@officialmcafee) is running fer el presidente of the biggest bananna republic in History..., he says... And he says lots more...and he's a hoot! (and he's a dog)

Posted by: Walter | Mar 15 2020 21:39 utc | 33

Tulsi should be the Green Party nominee. She would win.

Posted by: simjam | Mar 15 2020 21:54 utc | 34

Over on naked capitalism, somebody thought they saw a post about a tweet about a plan to tape the debate this afternoon and show it at 8pm as if it were live -- which would leave time to edit out any (more) horrendous Biden gaffes. But as of this writing, nobody can find the original reference to that tweet.

Has anyone here seen such news, fake or un-? If so, where? Certainly it's believable in the context of the current shenaniganza, but is it real or is it bad Memorex?

* [=======] *

On another front . . . if tonight goes badly for Biden, does that give the DNC more incentive to cancel the only other remaining scheduled D-debate? (Which IIRC hasn’t ever had a date beyond just "April".) Or would they keep the "April-somethingth” debate as a way to give Biden a chance for a make-up test, and schedule it on a key date? Say, either

* before Wisconsin on April 7; or

* after that (so they can get a read on how much he was hurt by tonight’s debate), but an appropriate amount of time before the big “East Coast cluster” primary April 28 (CT, DE, MD, NY, PA, and RI)?

Posted by: jalp | Mar 15 2020 22:31 utc | 35

NOBTS @ 13
If Bernie is real; ie. not sheep-dogging for Hillary again, he can prove it by dropping out immediately and throwing his delegates to Tulsi. This is the only shot to thwart the convention designs of the Dame Named Clinton. Hey Bernie! Throw a Hail Tulsi Pass now!

Excellent idea.

If he leaves us with AOC as his heir apparent, and it looks like she is as he appears with her often, then he is a sheep dog for the Establishment.

Posted by: dltravers | Mar 15 2020 22:39 utc | 36

First of all, the political energy Bernie raised from his supporters, in the hearts of the young especially, is not transferable to Biden's campaign at all. That didn't work in 2016 and it's not happening this time either. The defeated souls seen making comment here to belittle Bernie, are of a particularly sad demeanor. Those who admire what Bernie has accomplished went into this campaign understanding what they were up against. It is pitiful for some to forget Bernie taking Biden to task for his endorsement of the Iraq War, and of Biden's prolonged, stubborn commitment to war, --even when the disaster and disgrace of it had been exposed for years.

Bernie was supported and cheered because he stands as the last just man running for political office, in what Orwell once called "an Age of universal deceit". Which calamity is greater? The facade of the democratic process? The pusillanimous bit players who exited the contest when Obama gave them their cue? Maybe the superdelegates waiting to administer the coup de grâce at the convention?

No, but calamity is found in the cowardice of those who raise their hands like a mob to slander and belittle him. People who are so anxious to write this good man's political obituary should ask themselves if there is some kind metaphor revealed in this plague year. Maybe their own reputations are falling by the way. Maybe their hearts are found wanting. In Jeffery St. Clair's latest piece on Counterpunch, he offers a quote from "La Peste" by Albert Camus:

“At the beginning of a pestilence and when it ends, there’s always a propensity for rhetoric. In the first case, habits have not yet been lost; in the second, they’re returning. It is in the thick of a calamity that one gets hardened to the truth–in other words, to silence.”

Posted by: Copeland | Mar 15 2020 22:45 utc | 37

Pitiful - No not the participants in 'the great debate'; their hopelessly inadequate performances are too obvious to be worthy of comment, but the fools now seeing the same outcome as always, who are avoiding confronting the truth that their political structure is a scam (and thereby avoiding the obligation of trying to bring down that corrupt self serving ediface) by burying themselves in the minutiae of the made for TV soap opera subtext of this farce. Just as they always do.
Instead of realising that yes, they have been fucked over yet again and they need to do something about it, the derps are pissfarting around on the drama's periphery. "Bernie's a well meaning innocent" "No he's not. He is doing what he needs to do to keep his senate gig until he karks it" blah blah blah .

WTF cares! You've been raped up the arse by the same old perverts and now you're arguing about the quality of the entirely imaginary vaseline that was used. They screwed you bareback, but that is just too hard to confront, so now you're making up tales about the lubricant to dodge facing the ugly truth.

Sad, sick and as predictable as always. Like I said, pitiful.

Posted by: A User | Mar 15 2020 22:48 utc | 38

I wonder. If the DNC knew, they would have to withdraw Biden at some stage from the race because he is more and more obviously not up to it, how would they do it?

Sanders has the "youth vote" up to age 45 but not the backing of party sponsors.

They would need a deal with Sanders. They would also need a dignified exit for Biden. Maybe this is what we are seeing now.

There seems to be a faction that insists on getting Sanders out of the race. The interesting thing is who is not supporting this (and yes, the party "establishment" insists Sanders should continue to run).

Posted by: somebody | Mar 15 2020 22:54 utc | 39

Bernie's version of what pe-debate discussion should be like, live.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 15 2020 23:14 utc | 40

@19 Red Ryder
Take your pseudo-intellectual nonsense elsewhere. Also, what world do you live in where the ultra-rich are not doing well? They own more than 3/4 of the wealth of the world and they are not doing well? Come back to planet earth from where ever you are or share whatever you are smoking. You sound like a sycophant for the rich if I ever heard one.

Posted by: Tonymike | Mar 15 2020 23:16 utc | 41

First of all, the political energy Bernie raised from his supporters, in the hearts of the young especially, is not transferable to Biden's campaign at all.

While not a Dim, there is no way I could vote for Biden.
I live in a State where it is not significant anyway.
The Fat Boy and the Thugs are doing a good job of putting this into the ditch.
When we crash into that barrier up ahead, the survivors (if any) will need to sort it out on the other side.

Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Mar 15 2020 23:32 utc | 42

Sanders never had a chance because he represents the majority on almost every issue. That is not acceptable to a democratic party joined at the hip to the republican party, both completely subservient to monied interests.

Exits polls in SC, CA, and MA showed large discrepancies in Biden's favor, well out of the margin of error. If the vote count reflected the exit polls Sanders would be well ahead in delegates. The US uses exit polls as a test of validity of foreign elections, but for some reason does not apply that methodology here. Duh.

Nothing new here. In 2006 Clinton Curtis testified in congress about election hacking in Ohio in 2004 where exits polls were wildly different than the final count. The Iowa caucus app debacle was a more visible demonstration of the hacking. No need for superdelegates now, Sleepy Joe has been selected to assure another 4 years of Trump or Trump-like policies.

Posted by: Noah Way | Mar 15 2020 23:48 utc | 43

Copeland @ 38; As per your usual well thought out, and reasoned posts, another good one.

michael lacey @ 27 opined;"There is only one choice in this election. The consolidation of oligarchic power under Donald Trump or the consolidation of oligarchic power under Joe Biden. The oligarchs, with Trump or Biden, will win again. We will lose. The oligarchs made it abundantly clear, should Bernie Sanders miraculously become the Democratic Party nominee, they would join forces with the Republicans to crush him."

For me, as things are now, that's bottom line truth.

Bernie Sanders, IMO, has another chance to change the paradigm tonight, simply by telling the truth about our broken system and the kind of people that serve it.

Will he? We'll see...

The debate between Socialism and Capitalism is a phony one, designed to scare the uninformed. What works best is a mixed economy, incorporating elements of both.

Might help if someone would mention it....

Posted by: ben | Mar 15 2020 23:56 utc | 44

@ 42 & 44; Thanks, needed to be said..

Posted by: ben | Mar 15 2020 23:59 utc | 45

@42, Tonymike,

Your circular logic needs a long rest. Bark at the moon.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Mar 16 2020 0:12 utc | 46

As an european and for the first time interested in the primaries,I wonder why there's only Bernie,and nobody else is ever mentionned as being his faithful second,or faithful lieutenant capable and willing to continue Bernies movement for social justice and more equality in society and of course universal health care.Is he the kind of guy that can't stand someone challenging him?Has he deliberately created a vacuum around himself to avoid that to happen?

In France we have someone like him,Melenchon,who creates diversion in the left when it is needed to the oligarchie and faking to reunite the left,but shrieking back from victory.But coming with a bag full of words and leftist phrases that I generally can approve of.But never attacking any french government on the maintaining of thousands of troops abroad.I think those are just actors,playing the part that was written for them in the beginning of their career.Do you know that Daniel Cohn-Bendit from the '68 Paris movement is regarded by many,as being a CIA stooge from the beginning,in the same way as Guaido,Wong,Navalny,that would make May'68 a couloured revolution avant la lettre.

Yes,I think A User gives a good description of the phenomenon.So how come there's only Bernie,and nobody to take the torch from him?

Posted by: willie | Mar 16 2020 0:28 utc | 47

Sanders is done.

So is this country.

Global war is the only thing left for this miserable country to survive.

Better win.

Posted by: Alpi | Mar 16 2020 0:51 utc | 48

@48 willie

It's very new and interesting to me what you said here:

"Do you know that Daniel Cohn-Bendit from the '68 Paris movement is regarded by many, as being a CIA stooge from the beginning, in the same way as Guaido, Wong, Navalny, that would make May'68 a couloured revolution avant la lettre."

I did not know that! Thank you:)

Bernie had Tulsi Gabbard inspired by him, supporting him, and only needing him to recognize her in any way. But he's about as trustworthy as a CIA agent. He just ignored her, didn't support her, then let the State media and his party erase her. It's a grotesque election.
There have been so many times I've heard and read people say, "If the American people found out about 9/11 they'd go crazy", or, "If the American people found out about the amount of fraud/rigging in our elections, they wouldn't stand for it", etc., etc. Bullshit. The American people will do whatever the hell the TV tells them to do.

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 16 2020 0:57 utc | 49

SharonM @ 50 said;"The American people will do whatever the hell the TV tells them to do."

With one caveat added; Or, whatever their I-phones tell them to do.

The American public, at this moment in time, are the shallowest, most self-absorbed and willfully ignorant group in my lifetime, and, getting worse by the day.

IMO, of course....

Posted by: ben | Mar 16 2020 1:13 utc | 50

Totally agree, ben.

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 16 2020 1:21 utc | 51

By decade after decade re-electing corrupt warmongering incumbent corporate tools with 90-95% vote tallies, American voters have nobody else to blame but their own dumba$$ selves.

Wish I could leave this disgusting country, but it's too late for that for me, and I've got no more time for political circus shows.

Posted by: Trisha | Mar 16 2020 1:28 utc | 52

@ Trisha

We're at least reporters now, reporting on living in the heart of the empire in comment sections around the world;)

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 16 2020 1:37 utc | 53

Wally wonder when, precisely when, did our celestial elite secretly relinquish Power and become our equals? Oh, What's that? Now go read the way it was then, and ask "when" and you'll decide. Yet there is "an election"...put that together. If, by miracle, 100 saints were elected into the key posts, there'd be 100 Oswald events of one form or another, probably airplanecarsuicide stuff, and then the ifbe i would find kiddyporn...or one thing or another...

Garrison Interview, "Some Unauthorized Comments on the State of the Union" (kennedysandking [dot] com )

Yet it matters...just don't believe in the fairytale. Elections are, one way or another, instruments for creating consent.

Just because you vote does not mean you gave consent, unless you accept the lie, the fairytale, the con.

Of course now you must stay home and can't object. The magical appearance of the deadly germ, the virus

What a remarkable coincidence. Do read the Garrison interview.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 16 2020 1:38 utc | 54

I was looking forward to this debate...the only time in the past decade that I would have reduced myself to watching politicians. Hearing them talk generally curdles my blood, so I avoid it at all costs for my own health and well-being. But as I’m holed up to avoid the corona virus, watching the debate was something that promised to be entertaining ... this once.

Unfortunately, it was on CNN and Univision, which reduced the potential audience a lot, probably part of Democrats’ intentionally pathetic marketing. I cut the cable to avoid being gouged by the bandits at Comcast, so I was left out.

I sure hope Bernie schooled Biden. I also hope Biden was his usual, incoherent, senescent self, to which I hope Bernie had the guts to say, “Joe, could you try that answer again? I really couldn’t understand what you were trying to say.” Hopefully, if Bernie gave us some good moments, I’ll be able to catch them on You-Tube.

Watching that would have been worth a year’s Comcast extortion.

Posted by: JohnH | Mar 16 2020 2:03 utc | 55

@JohnH #56

I’m sorry to inform you, but it was streamed live on this page at completely free of charge, no registration needed. There are some video snippets available there, so you can catch up if you want to.

Posted by: S | Mar 16 2020 2:32 utc | 56

SharonM @ 50 said;"The American people will do whatever the hell the TV tells them to do."

With one caveat added; Or, whatever their I-phones tell them to do.

What if you don't have a TV or a iPhone?

Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Mar 16 2020 2:36 utc | 57

It's crazy all the president candidates are all old people in their 70s.

They should be in retirement home or hospital in the middle of a goddamn pandemic.

Tulsi Gabbard is constantly snubbed.

Posted by: Smith | Mar 16 2020 2:48 utc | 58

This is what Bernie's "good friend" had to say about M4A at the "debate" tonight:

“With all due respect for Medicare for All, you have a single payer system in Italy. It doesn't work there. It has nothing to do with medicare for all. That would not solve the problem at all,” Biden said.

Bernie's signature plan, D.O.A when Biden - who was sufficiently cogent tonight - gets elected. Although the Dump tested negative for the virus, in fact it will bring him down.

Posted by: Trisha | Mar 16 2020 2:49 utc | 59

I wonder what Gabbard's plan is. She did not run for renomination to her seat from Hawaii 2nd. She has worn out her welcome in the corporatist "D" party. She could run as an independent for Congress, but there's not much future in that, even if she wins. OTOH she could run as an independent for President. She can't win, but it could be a springboard to something bigger than what she has now. She likes the limelight and will not give it up easily. And she believes in her causes, she really believes.

Posted by: rowe | Mar 16 2020 3:03 utc | 60

@ Trisha | Mar 16 2020 2:49 utc | 60 who wrote
Although the Dump tested negative for the virus, in fact it will bring him down.

If the virus is a an empire bio-weapon then there is already a vaccine for it that has been given to the elite and their puppets.....including the Dump guy

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 16 2020 3:03 utc | 61

No surprises in the "debate". The nation is less because of the deflection of T. Gabbard.

CNN's taking heads gave Biden the nod, as expected.

Bernie told Biden he'd support him, but, notably, didn't ask his minions to support him.

All in all, kind of a yawner. Bernie still needs to take this thing all the way to the convention, and maybe, bring T. Gabbard along with him.

Oh, and Biden didn't mention the s-word(socialist)...

Posted by: ben | Mar 16 2020 3:21 utc | 62

Bernie absolutely will not fight. For the record, at Democrat Party platform meetings in July 2016 he wouldn't put up the slightest fight against TPP. His position against TPP had gained him many followers. Union heads who had been anti-TPP until then showed up and were stongly pro-TPP as were Hillary and Obama:

7/9/16, "Bernie Sanders Defeated on Trade in Democratic Platform Fight," NBC News, Alex Seitz-Wald, Orlando, Fla.

"Bernie Sanders failed to get strong language opposing the Trans-Pacific Partnership inserted in the draft Democratic platform at a party meeting here Saturday....It was clear as a string of trade union presidents lined up at the microphone to oppose the Sanders amendments that his forces were outmatched.... (parag. 11)

The Obama administration supports it [TPP], and the desire to avoid embarrassing the president carried the day, with the labor unions acting as a political shield for the White House. Delegates twice Saturday morning voted down stronger opposition language as Sanders supporters booed and chanted "sellout." Some eventually walked out of the meeting entirely."...

The only topic on the 2020 election agenda should be that the US must be broken into parts. The weapons dictatorship that runs the US won't be stopped any other way.

Posted by: chili palmer | Mar 16 2020 3:33 utc | 63

Bernie allowed Biden to co-opt his "message" on every point.

Even on his signature healthcare initiative, sheepdog Bernie rolled over. Bernie should've/could've asked why we should trust that Biden would get a 'public option' when Obama failed to do so (an Obama-Biden campaign promise).

Bernie also showed that he's got no interest in winning by failing to attack Biden on character issues (just as he wouldn't attack Hillary on character issues in 2016). Any real candidate would've brought up Hunter Biden's dealings in Ukraine and China.

Bernie also pulled many punches, like:

  • No mention of the $50+ trillion dollars of off-shore money;
  • Biden's loyalty to Obama: a President who failed to deliver "Change You Can Believe In";

  • Biden's connections to the MIC "swamp" - supporting a militaristic and belligerence foreign policy that makes us less safe;
  • Democratic Party's failure to protect workers and the middle-class (Bernie often talks about "the billionaires" but never talks about how they got to be so powerful in America)
  • Democratic Party's failure to be representative: no people of color in the last few debates!

Bernie's quixotic insurgency isn't anti-establishment. He's leading people into a dead end. And hoping you won't notice.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 16 2020 3:49 utc | 64

“Bernhard - just shut up about the damn emails!!!”

Oh - different campaign?

I mean to say.

“Bernhard - just shut up about that damn Ukrainian oil & gas company Burisma etc. etc!!!”

Posted by: Julian | Mar 16 2020 3:50 utc | 65

This is why billionaires can buy politicians;

"Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976), is a U.S. constitutional law Supreme Court case on campaign finance. A majority of justices held that limits on election spending in the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 § 608 are unconstitutional. In a per curiam (by the Court) opinion, they ruled that expenditure limits contravene the First Amendment provision on freedom of speech because a restriction on spending for political communication necessarily reduces the quantity of expression. It limited disclosure provisions and limited the Federal Election Commission's power. Justice Byron White dissented in part and wrote that Congress had legitimately recognized unlimited election spending "as a mortal danger against which effective preventive and curative steps must be taken".[1]

Buckley v. Valeo was extended by the U.S. Supreme Court in further cases, including in the five to four decision of First National Bank of Boston v. Bellotti in 1978[2] and Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission in 2010.[3] The latter held that corporations may spend from their general treasuries during elections. In 2014, McCutcheon v. Federal Election Commission held that aggregate limits on political giving by an individual are unconstitutional.[4]

By some measures, Buckley is the longest opinion ever issued by the Supreme Court.[5]

Posted by: ben | Mar 16 2020 4:28 utc | 66

"In the fifth, your ass goes down. Say it!"

"In the fifth, my ass goes down."

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Mar 16 2020 4:55 utc | 67

Posted by: Circe | Mar 15 2020 21:26 utc | 31

I'm convinced that if people are too stupid to see what's coming and continue to support Biden, Bernie will force himself to support Biden, because justifiably, like most people, he believes Trump's second term will be fascism unleashed and irreversible damage will result.

Ah, we see how you'll justify your support for Biden or Hillary or whatever the nominee is - you'll be "forced" because everyone else is too stupid to act against Trump's "fascism unleashed". IOW your same old Trump Derangement which also fueled your purely derivative pro-Bernie Derangement and which will continue to fuel your terminal morbid Dembotism.

(I also saw in the other thread how you're back to proclaiming openly that there are no principles, no morality, no real-world practical matters, literally nothing but whether something is "for" or "against" Trump. If there's a more stupid, threadbare, pathetic way of looking at the world, I've never heard of it.

Trump has done nothing but escalate along the existing post-Cold War neoliberal trajectory, same as Obama before him, Bush before that, Clinton. Same as any Democrat is doing today. The economic society as such is neo-fascistic and ecocidal. Trump is just as fungible a cog as anyone else.)

As for Sanders himself being "forced" to do anything, that's false. On the contrary, from day one he unilaterally, unconditionally promised to support the eventual Democrat nominee and work hard to deliver his supporters to the Party, exactly as in 2016. His behavior in 2016 comprised the very definition of being a sheepdog. So he shall be in 2020, as all non-deranged people knew from the start.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 16 2020 5:40 utc | 68

JohnH @56, S @57, and anybody else:

FWIW, C-SPAN is scheduled to show the debate at 11:05am and 10pm tomorrow/today (Mon 3-16). See here.

Posted by: jalp | Mar 16 2020 6:02 utc | 69

Kali #4

What Bernie can do tonite is what many fear he will not do because of his belief that he will lose Democrat party support in Vermont if he goes hard at Biden. Probably he hopes Biden will expose himself as a Mr. Magoo and he won't have to point out the obvious.....

OK with that but really since when does Bernie NEED the Democrat Party support at his age? Surely by now he is considering whether he should step aside. I cannot believe that the Democrats have not ousted him before this unless he was supremely in control locally or supremely important to their broader strategy.

I would have thought that after the 2016 challenge the Hillary revenge machine would have totally swamped the Vermont party team and ousted him. In retrospect it is mighty odd that he remains there and looks like will remain there for 2024. Is that saying something uncomfortable?

Surely tonight's debate is either Biden's to lose or Bernies to throw. Either is a spectacle to torpid (inactive or sluggish) to endure I feel. Jimmy Dore can report on the gore of it for me.

I wonder at the drinking rules that Matt Taibbi has established for tonight's debate:

1/ A shot of tequila for every time Bernie says that Joe is his friend
2/ A snort of powder every time Joe flunks his lines or is running for something other than President
3/ A shot of bourbon every time Bernie avoids describing Mixed Economy or using those words when he obviously could
4/ A beer every time Bernie fails to kick Biden when he could or should denounce him
5/ A straight blue saphire gin every time Bernie says or implies 'vote blue no matter who'

That should get a few into the comatose danger zone within thirty minutes.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 16 2020 6:15 utc | 70

It sounds like Biden had a very good debate by taking over Sanders' platform plus "getting it done".

Posted by: somebody | Mar 16 2020 6:22 utc | 71

So Biden said tonight that he will pick a woman running mate.

Guesses about who that will be?

Percentage chance it will be Hillary?.....GAG!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 16 2020 6:37 utc | 72

Below is a Mr. Fish political cartoon link and is provided to this thread because it is political and none of the MSM will print it....meaning it is good.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 16 2020 6:50 utc | 73

psychohistorian @73:

  • Hillary
    still a powerful force ... her way to the oval office?
  • Klobuchar
    a Centrist like Biden who is proud of her friendship with John McCain
  • Warren
    a fake progressive that stole women's vote from Bernie
  • Kamala
    a women of color who clashed with Biden in debates ("that little girl was me")
  • Tulsi
    a women of color who attacked Kamala and Warren when they threatened Biden, dedicated to her military service, progressive darling that has cultivated an Indian following (she's a Hindu and good relations with India is key to blocking China's rising influence)

Warren, Kamala, and Klobuchar are all Senators. Senators have much more power than a VP. Few Senators would give up a secure Senate seat for VP.

Hillary is despised by many. And choosing Hillary over Sanders would further alienate Sanders followers and progressives.

A progressive VP would be the best way for the Party to welcome Sanders supporters into the Party, prove that "democracy works!", and solidify their support for the long term.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 16 2020 8:33 utc | 74

Walter #55

Thank you for the link to Garrison. I perused that and will dive right in. May you enjoy every sunrise.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 16 2020 8:55 utc | 75

psychohistorian #73

Percentage chance it will be Hillary?.....GAG!

Thanks psychohistorian, I have some left over keyboard disinfectant should you require a splash or two.

The she demon cometh!! 👹💩🥵

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 16 2020 9:01 utc | 76

Bernie Sanders has only ever been a clever tool to mobilize the young voters. Never designed to actually have a chance. Just whip up dreams

Posted by: Jezabeel | Mar 16 2020 9:03 utc | 77

psychohistorian | Mar 16 2020 6:37 utc | 73:

There's no way Hillary would accept the VPOTUS position, even if she gets to run the country like what Cheney did with Shrub.

Posted by: Ian2 | Mar 16 2020 9:07 utc | 78

Jackrabbit #75

a women of color who attacked Kamala and Warren when they threatened Biden, dedicated to her military service, progressive darling that has cultivated an Indian following (she's a Hindu and good relations with India is key to blocking China's rising influence)

Thanks for that suggestion but Tulsi is not a friend of the Pentagon. See Walter at #55 and read the Garrison interview for an insight into what those hateful turds can do.

Besides Biden is an all murican scumbag and an intolerant shite and he would NEVER pick a woman of color unless the DNC picked one for him. Biden is color blind he only sees white. Mind you if he chooses Hillary then I would be interested in how much carpetbagging that competitive duo could hide.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 16 2020 9:08 utc | 79

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 16 2020 8:33 utc | 75

a fake progressive that stole women's vote from Bernie

And so Warren it will be.

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 16 2020 9:33 utc | 80

Smells like a queen of chaos scheme. VP, dementia sets in, Biden out and finally, veni vidi an he croaked.
If that's going to be the next Hollywood blockbuster, the infamy of murica will be of cosmic proportions. Nope, it does not smell, it stinks¡¡¡¡

Posted by: Paco | Mar 16 2020 10:45 utc | 81

50# SharonM

Thank you for your reply!Still I fail to see how some "movement" is just a flock behind a herdsman,without lieutenants or major "best friend" leading the organisation.If its persons promoting ideas,he should have those lieutenants.If it's flock gathering behind a guru,well,you know;it means nothing.
And I don't mean Gabbard or AOC,or other political figures sharing ideas or ideology,because they are from very different regions.I was expecting a Vermont-crew behind Sanders,but it is just cheerleaders.Anyways,to the whole world it looks like a circus,whether it was in kennedy's epoch,or Trump's.The americans are indeed living proof of the dangers of television over-exposition.

As for Cohn-Bendit,the french-german redhaired jew,he's made the same parcours as so many others,from trotskism to neo-liberalism.He was promoting revolution then,and it started in a typically french way because the boys had not access to the girls dormitories.In a book from the seventies or eighties he was in a leftist wave promoting sex with children.DCB is very anti-Russian.And surely one of the more CIA controlled members of the European parliament.On a weekly France Culture radio show with of course mainstream pundits,recorded in studio,he only shows up when it is recorded with an audience,every once in a while to make it possible for him to be cheered when he is doing his anti-Putin anti russian rant.And he has got always the last word.Of course I can't vouch for his being CIA,but think about it,as the epoch saw also France leaving NATO command,putting out the American Army,the bomb secretly given to Israel behind the Gaulle's back,de Gaulle claiming independence for le Québec,and so many other items.He would include Russia in a big cooperation,even if it was soviet.He was showing a third way,of independent states that neither would be in the sphere of USA or USSR.When he made state visits to Mexico,Brazil,Argentina,he was acclaimed by millions,you would't believe it now.At the time everybody was wary of the great Charles,but without him,we would have been paying groceries with the Amgot money,that the americans brought with them.Already in 1942 CIA agent and later co-founding father of European Union Jean Monnet wrote to his handler,that they should consider getting rid of De Gaulle,cause he would oppose loosing french sovereignty.He was the only one to see that the European Union was just a project to expand american influence up to the russian border,by NATO.So yes,I believe DCB was missioned to damage him.

Now I wrote this,I see that it is not really about the american presidentials,but in some way it is,isn't it,

Posted by: willie | Mar 16 2020 10:59 utc | 82

Willie @48 / 84
There's no need for Sanders to designate a Dauphin: at every election the Owners of the Country trot out a shepherd dog, to bark the disgruntled people back to the fold, keeping them from burning down the Democrat abomination down. And yes, the sheeple are just as stupid as we think they are. Wallace, Mc Govern, Jackson, Kucinich, Sanders... the Owners always have a sheepdog ready. No matter if heshehe is a well-meaning, sincere populist like Kucinich or a warmongering imperialist buzztard like Sanders, or even worse, the sheepdog is the wolf in person, like Obama, the stupid sheep keep obeying the dog and voting for more of the same.
Because, see, their Hopium addiction has addled their brains. You just don't go to war relying on heroin addicts; it's just as bad with those who need their daily dose of Hope (when there is none.) They can't follow logic.

Posted by: Piero Colombo | Mar 16 2020 11:34 utc | 83

@Carciofi | Mar 16 2020 9:33 utc | 82

And so Warren it will be.

No, Joe's already said they need her in the Senate. Plus, she brings nothing to the ticket -- most of her supporters would go for Biden anyways. And she'll need a lot of luck to get herself reelected.

Posted by: PhilK | Mar 16 2020 11:38 utc | 84

Well that's it Bernie is done and he made sure to s*** on his own movement as he stumbled off the stage back to his 3 mansions. He had already lost with super Tuesday, but he had a chance to save his legacy with a strong debate performance if he managed to squeeze some public commitments out of Biden for his followers. Instead he meekly assented to Biden's coronation, what was the point of the debate for Bernie's movement? they got nothing out of Biden, heck, Biden even made a point of trashing Medical Care for all and demanding that all of Bernie's people embrace him as their rightful king. Bernie's people got NOTHING from Biden and the DNC, the will continue to get NOTHING from them until they show the DNC that they will boycott the next election and make the DNC lose elections they would otherwise win. sure the Democrats will blame them for Trump 2020, but the Democrats lost the moderates in 2000 but they still came back to pander to them, time to make them pander to Bernie's people!

Posted by: Kadath | Mar 16 2020 11:39 utc | 85

Biden's choice of VP will be critical as he has announced that he only plans to serve one term.

It would be good for him to give his female VP a high profile to get America used to the concept of a female President.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 16 2020 11:57 utc | 86

Guess we'll never hear from Circe again,no great loss even if the makes a very to the point comment sometimes.What a bummer this Bernie is.Yuk!So now it turns out he's a CIA stooge all along his career.>His followers should hang him!

Posted by: willie | Mar 16 2020 12:41 utc | 87

Ironically, Bernie is probably the only Bernie supporter who will vote for Biden.

Posted by: Renodino | Mar 16 2020 12:58 utc | 88

Sadly Bernie is done

1. No one is talking about last night's debate because of the Coronavirus. It doesn't show up on my 'Bing' homepage and there isn't even mention of it on the few liberal websites that I visit except for Counterpunch and there was only one there.

2. The one exchange that I found on CNN / FOX was the 'Italy moment' which was meh when Bernie should have hit it out of the park. In fact, FOX even made it look like it was a homerun for Biden when it was not.

Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Mar 16 2020 13:12 utc | 89

Now for the real tragedy: Circe, and millions more like her across the US, will demonstrate the extent of her "Trump Derangement Syndrome" and become ardent Biden cheerleaders, complete with ALL CAPS shouting and deranged screeching about votes for anyone but Biden being votes for Trump and so on.

I tried to inoculate Circe against this mental disorder while she was in her lucid Sanders-supporting stage. Let's see if any immunity remains.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 16 2020 13:23 utc | 90

>Bernie Sanders has only ever been a clever tool to mobilize
>the young voters. Never designed to actually have a chance. Just whip up dreams
>Posted by: Jezabeel | Mar 16 2020 9:03 utc | 79

... and then crush the dreams so the dreamers drift away in disgust.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 16 2020 13:39 utc | 91

I wonder what the DNC and MSM would do if Biden and Sanders were sidelined with the virus before the end of the primary and the only one left was Tulsi. Would they change the rules to allow someone who dropped out to re-enter? I can't imagine them even acknowledging her running and just give the presidency to Trump. She should start a class action lawsuit on the MSM for directly lying to the American public and saying there were only two old white guys left to choose from.

Posted by: Tobi | Mar 16 2020 13:56 utc | 92

Posted by: Red Ryder | Mar 15 2020 17:48 utc | 2

I watched about 5 minutes of the debate, maybe.

He has no personality to battle opponents. He makes proclamations of his ideology.
He has never "fought back".

Ok, i'll bite. What information do you have to judge his "personality"? Mind you, I am somewhat hesistant concerning the present US (opposition)* standard that he only lost last time around due to DNC manipulations. Now, I am not a specialist on the "average US personality" and/or awareness of US channels camera and visual editing staff. But yes, apparently in the five minutes I watched, painful, I noticed that Biden has been trained or is aware by now that he also communicates via visuals, considering "how does your communcations" both verbal and non-verbal arrive at the end of the respective receivers.

* And no, I wasn't and still am not a fan of Hillary.

Even if we leave out that he obviously is an easy "communist/socialist" target on the US ground???

Posted by: Vig | Mar 16 2020 14:04 utc | 93

@92 William Gruff

Better to be wised up with TDS than to be a TAW.

Trump Ass Wipe.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 16 2020 14:23 utc | 94

It's over. Do you think the ruling class is going to let go of this Biden "lead". It's rigged.

See statistician Richard Charnin

Posted by: Regensordo | Mar 16 2020 14:24 utc | 95

@Circe. YOU NOW HAVE LESS THAN ZERO CREDIBILITY HERE, IMO Please move along and sheepdog your sheepdog somewhere else. Thanks. Don't forget to wash your hands:)

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Mar 16 2020 14:32 utc | 96

@97 Regensordo

Recent history is going to repeat itself. Hubris in 2016 got us Trump, 4 years later were served up with an old moldy well buffed turd by the DNC again. Any question what the outcome will be.

Posted by: Tobi | Mar 16 2020 14:33 utc | 97

Circe @96

You've learned nothing if you vote for Biden. That's not wising up. That is dumbing down and capitulating to hysteria.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 16 2020 14:44 utc | 98

@ Circe

With the primary behind us, who will you vote for and why?

Posted by: oglalla | Mar 16 2020 14:59 utc | 99

To the jackass posterior:

Trump's GOP fascism = Biden's mule fascism. Only hysterical biatches cannot see that.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 16 2020 15:02 utc | 100

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