Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 03, 2020

2020 Presidential Election Thread 02

This thread is exclusively for comments on the 2020 presidential election.

Posted by b on March 3, 2020 at 14:55 UTC | Permalink

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Wally can't improve on this> "The Democratic Party is the oldest capitalist political party in the world. Its existence stretches back to 1828, and in the course of its long history, it has perfected the art of deflecting popular opposition to inequality through the skilled combination of demagogy and deceit." (WSWS)

Yet History's fickle, these are old guys under great stress, and subject of both natural and un-natural forces, disease, intrigue.

In train-wreck murka changing figure-heads seems kinna silly, and dreaming about it sillier yet.

As one institutional ritual and belief icon after another fails it's inevitable that the last institution, the institutions of Force (cops, army,) will also fail. When that happens it can't matter what name is on the desk, as nobody will care, or obey.

Empires collapse becomes final when the Army is not. Just prior to that the Army is not paid and veterans begin to revolt, and of course there are mutinies.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 5 2020 15:47 utc | 301

Basically Sanders is promoting a different kind of lobbyism - by trade unions, local business, civil rights organizations, community groups.

I don't understand why he does not team up with small to medium sized businesses on the health care issue - public health care would enable them to spread the cost of their employees' health insurance (and enable them to compete with big business for their work force).

Posted by: somebody | Mar 5 2020 11:26 utc | 293

You know, that's an excellent point! He should focus more on the benefts of his health plan for small businesses! I'm reading that medicare-for-all will be a boon for small businesses. There's an article today in WAPO regarding just that!


I don't like what Warren did to him on Super Tuesday, but I have to admit that Warren is very good at getting into the mechanics of social programs and he could really benefit from her help in rallying small business to his cause.

I really hope she comes to her senses and backs the only candidate with a real progressive agenda. She has to ignore the media noise pushing her to support right of centre Biden. That would be like a career ender for her. And there's no splainin' such a move as trying to unite the party. The public is moving left when not under the influence of fear narrative brainwash, so she has to help Bernie take it as far as possible in that direction.

She's the one that can really get into the nuts and bolts with small and medium-sized businesses.

Bernie needs a well-known business-oriented individual to help him with that task. I agree that that kind of business focus would really help skyrocket his campaign and blow Biden's out of the water.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5 2020 15:56 utc | 302

@300 Mark2

"What doesn’t kill us makes us stronger." But in reality, what doesn't kill us probably hurts pretty bad and weakens us;)

"So come on guys support Bernie but also support CERCE right here."

Supporting Bernie is one thing, supporting a fan of Bernie's who just insults everyone for having the audacity to be critical of Bernie is ridiculous, in my view:)

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 5 2020 16:04 utc | 303

@301 Carciofi

"Would he ever pick Tulsi, I wonder?"

I think not. And I also think that the ever-evolving Tulsi Gabbard would be taking a step backwards running with him;)

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 5 2020 16:10 utc | 304

Warren out, ends campaign

Yeah, and her bagful of $$$ along with her delegates should be pledged to Bernie because Wall Street is in force to prevent his nomination.

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 5 2020 16:14 utc | 305

OMG! KRYSTAL BALL, amazing, on the ball and brilliant!

Bernie, if you're watching...hint-hint...this woman is your future Press Secretary.

Elizabeth Warren MUST SEE THIS VIDEO. If she follows Krystal's advice, she'll jumpstart everything including her future in politics, and I'll eat humble pie and forgive her and take everything back (not easy for me...btw).

This is a do or die moment for Warren. Hopefully, she doesn't make all the same mistakes.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5 2020 16:22 utc | 306

One more thing: SHARE THAT VIDEO OF KRYSTAL BALL I just posted.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5 2020 16:27 utc | 307

@ Circe 303
Why would Florida declare an SOE with only two cases? what does the governor know?

Bernie's Medicare for all is on the horizon due COVID-19. It will not be avoided when people will be dropping like flies. South Korea is able to test 10,000 per day Free.
US availability in the hundreds. And cost of testing ? I am reading in the US perhaps hundreds and at the astonishing price charged for testing - $500 at the low end.

Really, with 27 million without insurance !!? Wishing for a pandemic.
NY Governor Cuomo has now requested a waiver by insurers.

LINK On the fake news circulating that it could be as high as $3,000 per test.

"Jennifer Kates, the director of global health and HIV policy at the Kaiser Family Foundation,.said in a phone interview, “There could be other costs incurred.” Visits to the doctor’s office and the emergency room can cost patients money, she said, noting that some high-deductible insurance plans could effectively charge patients who go to the ER $1,000 or more."

Well, you see "$Profits shall not be denied" is the 12th Commandment in the mission statement of US Health industry. Pence's prayer will not help.

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 5 2020 16:39 utc | 308

If Elizabeth Warren listens to the MEDIA NOISE she's doomed to make the same mistakes of the past. Put on the blinders, the ear plugs and heed Krystal Ball's advice!

There is no other good path for Warren than the one Krystal Ball laid out for her today!

She must take it and she will end up in the White House 'cause Bernie Sanders can and will defeat Trump and Biden has serious flaws that Trump will zoom in on like a laser-guided missile to pulverize him. Biden will implode and if Warren backs him her career will implode with him.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5 2020 16:49 utc | 309

>Why would Florida declare an SOE with only two cases?

In other disasters, a governor declares "Emergency" in order to access various federal programs. It's likely the same situation now. In general, the feds will reimburse state and local governments for the excess expenses caused by the emergency.

As for private individuals who suffer losses due to emergencies, well, that is why they are supposed to buy expensive private insurance from companies that do everything they can to delay and deny paying claims.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Mar 5 2020 16:53 utc | 310

@ TT 311

Declaring a SOE on 2 cases serves to promote panic in the population. NY has 13. There is no need for the FL governor to fan panic or to declare SOE to access funds. There is CDC and HHS mandated for such issues. Congress [H.R.] just voted $8.3 billion for the COVID-19.
Today, Senate rush the vote to approve.

Of the sum, $2.2 billion would aid public health activities on prevention, preparedness and response to outbreaks. LINK

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 5 2020 17:06 utc | 311

@309 Likklemore

Why would Florida declare an SOE with only two cases? what does the governor know?

Interesting question. Florida is a state critical to Trump's re-election. My guess is that while Trump was slow to respond in very liberal Washington State and Cali, he may be planning to capitalize politically from the lesser cases in Florida to initiate an aggressive program that will jumpstart and drive an image of him as the compassionate Healer-in-Chief that at this moment is dead in the water.

Trump needs and wants Florida solidly behind him. No doubt he'll exploit politically the slightest hint of virus there.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5 2020 17:10 utc | 312

Warren intimately learned the lengths in which the neolibs will go to get their guy safely nominated at the convention.

She must know she holds the fate of both Sanders and Obama's, yes, Obama's not Biden's, future in her next move. She holds a ton of power in this moment of time.

Does she protect the criminal neolib cabal? Or does she break ranks and align with Sanders thereby washing her hands of the tired, old, same-old-same ole hags?

People here talk a lot about the imminent collapse of the American empire. The only thing collapsing is the wicked, dark, duplicitous, criminal cabal known as the neolib/neocon infiltrators. May Warren put the final stake through its heart.

And I'm no Sanders nor Warren supporter. But given the fact such a delicious opportunity has presented itself, I sincerely hope Warren delivers all of us from this evil.

Posted by: h | Mar 5 2020 17:18 utc | 313

Sputnik reporting that Warren is dropping out.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 5 2020 17:25 utc | 314

One more thing, Likklemore, to counter the exploitation of Coronvirus and people's justified fear, by Trump and others this is the perfect moment for Bernie Sanders to hammer away at the fact that if everyone had Medicare-for-All, the government, insurers, and big pharma wouldn't be able to exploit people in serious health situations like during flu pandemics. He's making light of this already but he really must insist on this point more, especially in the midst of this serious health threat.

I guess he might not want to be seen as exploiting the situation, but no doubt I see him emphasizing it more and he will emphasize this narrative, and rightly so, as the infection increases and takes a greater toll.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5 2020 17:27 utc | 315

Here's more of Gabbard's exclusion from upcoming debate. Looks like what's needed is an expose on the DNC's machinations thus far to rile up Sanders and Gabbards crews along with those rooting for them but still sitting on the fence.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 5 2020 17:32 utc | 316

@Really?? #268
No, actually, I just demonstrated that I am reading what is written.
Only a mind reader would be able to understand what you *think* you wrote.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 5 2020 17:32 utc | 317

@jalp #291
Quite true, but who won the Democratic nomination in 2016?
Was Michigan therefore an outlier or a trend?
It seems the former.
I'd also note that the biggest fail in the 2016 Michigan primary prediction was 538/Nate Silver - whose failures in the political arena have now spanned multiple nations and multiple stages of contests. That's one reason I look more at RCP - also has problems but less obviously colored by party views.
Note also that Bernie and Biden are pretty close in Michigan polls now - and the RCP polls, at least, underestimated Biden's performance in all 5 of the states in the page I looked at (CA, NC, VA, ME, TX).
Maybe that's an anomaly - we'll see.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 5 2020 17:38 utc | 318

@Likklemore #309
If quarantines need to be enforced, I'm fairly sure it is easier if an SOE is declared than not. Less of a budget issue ATM than a legal power one.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 5 2020 17:40 utc | 319

Mar 4 2020 23:58 utc | 274

Re: connecting Delaware and Dupont...Now factor it to simplify a bit more and...Voila!...

Biden, the senator from Dupont!

How could it be otherwise? He's a poster-child for USA's rule-of-law game.

Posted by: chu teh | Mar 5 2020 17:40 utc | 320

As for so much attention wasted on politics, consider this...

In human civilization the ultimate "money" in practical terms, is food/water.

Fairness, lack of, has gotten so far out of view that control is a daydream and "money" has become imaginary or a glittering stone or a yellow lump of dead metal. Remember this as the store shelves are emptied and a ham sandwich is nowhere to be found.

Posted by: chu teh | Mar 5 2020 17:53 utc | 321

Here's an amusing take on Biden by Carlson Tucker Biden Gaffe Prone

To be clear, I support Sanders only because he is the only candidate that is really trying to reform health care in the US.
I don't actually believe he could succeed - there is no historical precedent of Sanders pushing through really difficult legislation in the face of entrenched, moneyed opposition as would be present for single payer, much less actual nationalized health care. Maybe this is the wrong impression - Bernie fans, please post some examples for the national level where Sanders has been the major sponsor in getting a corporate-hated legislation passed. As opposed to being a protest voter.

A Sanders win means he'll be a progressive liberal Trump - a President without a party, an administration without the legions of apparatchiks a normal incoming President has ready to take up positions in the administration, only Sanders won't have both House and Senate even in the ostensible same party as Trump did in 2016.

Nor is it clear Sanders would ruthlessly hire and fire like Trump has done. Whatever you want to say about Trump (and they're likely mostly true), Trump has turned over more Cabinet positions than the last 4 (maybe 5 or more) Presidential terms combined, in just 1 term.

I consider US health care to be the single most important issue facing Americans today, it is worth giving Sanders the attempt.

But it is increasingly likely that Sanders is going to fail to win the Democrat nomination just as he failed in 2016 (and 2012 before that).

His positions are failing with older voters - and older people are the core of the voting turnout. He's weak in the South overall - both in the African American demo (which is lap dogging the DNCC as usual) and because he's a Jewish NorthEasterner.

Biden is such a non-entity who may have Alzheimer's, that the VP position is going to be what matters. It isn't going to be a 2nd tier loser like Kamala. Warren seems unlikely as well - safe on the health care front, not safe on the wealth tax front (at least publicly).
Maybe HRC comes back for a 2nd shot, maybe Bloomberg wants VP instead of Treasury Secretary.

Interesting times.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 5 2020 17:55 utc | 322

Will Biden give Warren the VP position? Their policies are not a natural fit, and I think he has someone else in mind. And I don't imagine her turning for anything less than that.

If he does, it will be disingenuous on his part since he will deliver very little on the progressive agenda and would use her only to peel away voters from Bernie.

If she accepts, she is risking her reputation as a leader in the progressive movement and her future career whether he implodes or not, which he will.

With Bernie there is NO RISK, because with her he has an even better chance of winning AND once he does, he will defeat Trump, unlike Biden who will lose to Trump.

Anyway, I'm posting her Twitter, in case people wanna nudge her in the right direction, cause she needs to see the light and turn off the establishment noise.

Elizabeth Warren

I'm really hoping she doesn't sell out to the dark side supported by the billionaire class and now add Bloomberg to the list. She can't go to the team Bloomberg is on after taking him down the way she did. Come on!

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5 2020 18:06 utc | 323

Circe said @324 "With Bernie there is NO RISK, because with her he has an even better chance of winning..." I beg to differ. As I said above, the neolibs play for keeps. And as Schumer warned Trump in 2017 about the Swamp aka Intel 'they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you.' Don't believe for a moment that neolib cabal won't destroy her because they will. It's how they roll.

Posted by: h | Mar 5 2020 18:27 utc | 324

On the question of endorsing Bernie or Biden Warren responds in presser

Posted by: h | Mar 5 2020 18:37 utc | 325

Warren is going to stall long enough that it doesn't matter any more - all her offices will be shut down, donations trousered and data sent to the dnc, and then she will make a half-hearted statement which damns Sanders with faint praise so 'progressives' have no definite proof she sold out. Everything will be ready for the faux humanist to run again in 2024 when 'the bern' is dead or in his dotage.
And yet so many amerikans still imagine ticking a box every 4 years has a meaningful impact on anything?

Posted by: A User | Mar 5 2020 19:33 utc | 326

@Circe #324
It is theoretically possible - the problem is that if Biden really is problematic, health-wise - would the establishment want Warren as President? Seems risky.
More importantly: if Biden is beating Bernie all by himself - he doesn't need a "progressive" VP.
Why not then bring in HRC or Bloomberg? Even Kamala is possible, but pointless.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 5 2020 20:39 utc | 327

Let Warren try and stall and dismiss this moment for progressives with an empty platitude. Ain't gonna work this time!

Let me be clear: Warren has ONLY ONE option to save face with the progressive movement. This is NOT 2016! She can't pretend to be the sphinx or Mona Lisa and keep everyone guessing and wondering what she's really thinking and if this is a rejection. Faint praise while she straddles won't cut it either to wiggle out of making herself krystal
clear. This is serious; this is not a game! This is a decisive moment and she should be held accountable if she chooses the path of spineless, coy inscrutability.

Her failure to decisively support the only candidate now moving the progressive movement forward is a deathknell for her credibility, her future political career and any influence she's got at this point with progressive groups which after what she pulled last week is probably floundering.


DECIDE. Stop pretending you are a mediator and a uniter to give yourself some kind of clout to cash in for a future run. This is the end of the line that augurs a future in irrelevant insipidness up to retirement or the beginning of REAL transformation. What'll it be?

Don't keep everyone waiting like anxious suitors courting Scarlett waiting on your every breath playing games with our minds and wearing down every nerve. You ain't the belle of the ball, Sanders ain't Rhett and Biden ain't Ashley! Make up your mind, but know this, if you choose Biden, or straddle the fence you will be making the biggest mistake of your career, and when you try to return with your ambition on your sleeve, the answer will be a RESOUNDING: NO! Frankly we don't give a damn any more; and a door slamming shut.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5 2020 21:11 utc | 328

It gets better. According to Consortium News today, the DNC has just changed the debate rules.

". . . the DNC has not released their official guidance for the March 15 debate in Phoenix, but it would be very obvious that they are trying to cancel Tulsi, who they’re scared of a third party run, if they then change the rules to prevent her to rejoin the debate stage.”

And indeed, as the smoke clears from the Super Tuesday frenzy, this is precisely what appears to have transpired."

After the first primary the DNC made a rule that only those people who had won delegates from primaries could be on the debate stage.
It was that rule which they used to keep Gabbard off stage - she had no delegates. However one of the lesser known participants in super tuesday is amerikan samoa and they awarded Gabbard two delegates.
Using some form of usual skulduggery and legerdemain the dnc pared that down to one. Gabbard has one delegate, but that isn't good enough, can't have even a faux peacenik on stage so the rules have been changed again!

Going back to Consortium News once more:

“If Tulsi Gabbard gets a delegate out of American Samoa, as it appears she has done, she will likely qualify for the next Democratic debate,” tweeted The Washington Post‘s Dave Weigel. “We don’t have new debate rules yet, but party has been inviting any candidate who gets a delegate.”

Rank-and-file supporters of the Hawaii congresswoman enjoyed a brief celebration on social media, before having their hopes dashed minutes later by an announcement from the DNC’s Communications Director Xochitl Hinojosa that “the threshold will go up.”

So the crooks have done it again and watch absolutely nothing will happen to alter that.

Our house shrieker can rant & rave & shriek all she wants but all she is displaying is her complete ignorance of how the world works. Nothing about how Warren stitched up Sanders will be permitted to enter the consciousness of the masses, much less anything about some unwhite from Hawaii who (the dnc will infer) prolly used nepotism & corruption to jag one lousy delegate from Samoa of all places - "Hmm best we clean up that branch office".

This is how politics has always been done in amerika and it is the way it will always be done in future, for as long as dummies use the seemingly easy and straightforward but actually always rigged voting game.

Posted by: A User | Mar 5 2020 21:34 utc | 329

ATTENTION: Fake News Alert

Today MSNBC reported lower youth voter turnout for Sanders in Southern States with the exception of South Carolina and lower in Massachusetts and Texas.

HELLO??? First of all, it was split with Warren this time!

Secondly, the youth vote in California and Colorado only for Sanders was at record high levels!


Posted by: Circe | Mar 5 2020 21:43 utc | 330

Today, Warren said, “I was told at the beginning of this whole undertaking that there are two lanes: A progressive lane, that Bernie Sanders is the incumbent for, and a moderate lane, that Joe Biden is the incumbent for, and there’s no room for anyone else in this. I felt that wasn’t right, but evidently, I was wrong.”

First I wonder who told her this at the beginning because at the end IT WAS THE ELECTORATE, and they are what matter! Therefore, quit dancing around pretending there's space between the LEFT and the CENTRE! How many ways must Liberals split to please her?

And NO you can't be a bridge either because that bridge always has A ONE DIRECTION LANE TO THE CENTRE.

The Electorate gave her an answer as plain as the nose on her face and she's still acting like she knows better.

She can play that mediator role ONLY once progressives are SECURELY in power in the Executive branch, but not by joining Biden and the centrists and giving them executive power again! Helping to bring Progressives into executive power is critical now, and then she can do the VP job of getting a centrist/rightist Congress to move!

Now all she's doing with this straddle is HURTING progressives.

Gawd, it's not rocket science. Choose the progressive movement, already!

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5 2020 22:27 utc | 331

ciue 318

"Only a mind reader would be able to understand what you *think* you wrote."
This is gibberish.

Posted by: Really?? | Mar 5 2020 22:40 utc | 332

Get this: the FAKE media want Warren to take breath, and wait...until JUNE! to endorse.

If Warren really cares about the Progressive Movement she'll endorse ASAP, before Michigan, get a Progressive into the Presidency and then do her unity bridge work. That's how you ensure Progressives don't get kicked to the curb under the bus AGAIN.

There is only one way now to get it done. Everything else (supporting the Centrist or no one until a month before the Convention) has been tried in 2016 and prior and FAILED.

There is only one way forward, and she cannot shrug this responsibility again.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5 2020 22:55 utc | 333

The idea of Warren supporting Biden in any way simply does not compute.
Warren is a primarily a consumer advocate, with an emphasis on debt. Especially credit card debt.
Biden is a representative of "the Usury State," Delaware.
Biden is a tool of the usury business centered in Delaware.
How can Warren play footsie under the table with Biden, of all people?

Posted by: Really?? | Mar 5 2020 23:20 utc | 334

"Here's an amusing take on Biden by Carlson Tucker

Uh, that's Tucker Carlson.

Posted by: Really?? | Mar 5 2020 23:25 utc | 335

Really?? 336

Bravo, Tucker!
He takes Biden to the cleaner on his steadfast fealty to the credit card industry with its 21% interest rates for the 99%, while the Fed lends to the 1% at virtually no interest.
Really, "21% for the 99%" could be a rallying cry to implode Biden.
If Warren had any guts or integrity, she would be carrying this banner.

Posted by: Really?? | Mar 5 2020 23:37 utc | 336

Really ?? @335:

Consumer advocacy was Warren's meal ticket to power, nothing more. She'll have no problem endorsing Biden, although I'm sure she's busily extorting a VP promise out of him even as I type this.

As for Bernie, if he were to violate the DNC time-space continuum by actually getting the nomination and were to offer Warren his VP slot, there's no way in hell I'd vote for him either. (Voting for Biden is simply unthinkable.)

Posted by: corvo | Mar 5 2020 23:45 utc | 337

@Circe #331
Do you have some evidence to back up your statement?
Bernie got fewer votes in 2020 in California than he did in 2016.
2016: 2381722
2020: 1059055
There were 5.19M votes cast, overall, in CA in 2016 in the Demo primary vs 3.13M in 2020.
2 million votes seems like a huge turnout difference.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 6 2020 1:05 utc | 338

See I told you! I wrote earlier Joe Biden wouldn't offer Warren the Veep position. Now here's his tweet:

Senator @EWarren is the fiercest of fighters for middle class families. Her work in Washington, in Massachusetts, and on the campaign trail has made a real difference in people's lives. We needed her voice in this race, and we need her continued work in the Senate. 12:20 PM · Mar 5, 2020·TweetDeck 7.8K Retweets

Mark me on this: she wants nothing less than VP.


Guess what? Karl Rove has been saying really nice things about Biden everywhere. So what message should Dems get from this?


Here's just one reason why Rove might want Biden to be the Nominee. Watch video in tweet; click volume bottom right.

Joe has a problem

Here's hi-lights of what we can expect Trump to do with Joe's problem.


Okay now, remember when I got into Campaign astrology here, and none of you commented. I know some of you probably thought it was wacky, right? Not so fast, I'm being vindicated yet again.:

I wrote Bloomberg (Aquarius) and Biden (Scorpio) were headed for a collision with karmic Saturn soon. Remember that?

Well let's see how right I've been so far.:

Bloomberg threw away over HALF A BILLION DOLLARS and he's already out of the race. Ouch! You know that hurts even a multi-billionaire. But trust me his karma's just beginning. You know how many poor he could have housed for that amount of money? Yep. All the homeless in America!

So Democrats and the DNC cheated Bernie Sanders again by massively turning on him and endorsing Biden when Bernie won the first 3 states and Biden won 1 state after Clyburn gave him a helping hand (i.e. booster insurance).

You know what people in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada had time to see that people in the other states didn't? Exactly what's on that video of Biden and exactly what Trump is mocking in the other.

So before Super Tuesday, I wrote that Democrats were making a huge mistake supporting either Bloomberg or Biden because both are heading into powerful, negative astrological headwinds i.e. karma.

And late on Super Tuesday, I suggested that everyone do a split screen of Bernie's speech and Biden's and how staggeringly high energy Bernie's was, how animated the public was, and how upbeat his family was. In contrast Biden fumbled during his speech. His wife and sister appeared quite uncomfortable and the crowd was not very enthusiastic.

And THIS is the candidate DEMS imagine can defeat Trump???

Now, when I repeat: BERNIE SANDERS IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN AND WILL DEFEAT TRUMP... will everyone finally believe me or what?

Posted by: Circe | Mar 6 2020 1:37 utc | 339

Circe @ 340 said in part:"negative astrological headwinds i.e. karma."

Maybe, maybe not, in any event, to imagine Biden beating DJT, is quite a stretch. Biden, the male version of HRC. I'm sickened even thinking about it..

This nation WILL throw away it's best shot at any kind of change by selecting Biden.

No one would ever go broke betting on the public's willful ignorance..

Warren, grab a clue!!

Posted by: ben | Mar 6 2020 2:01 utc | 340

@339 c1ue

California youth latino turnout

Posted by: Circe | Mar 6 2020 2:17 utc | 341

Check out the crowd for Bernie in Phoenix! Live:

Posted by: Circe | Mar 6 2020 2:21 utc | 342

circe @340:

What I see in the tweet you cite from some Biden staffer (hard to imagine Biden sentient enough to have typed it himself) is twofold: (1) the absence of a categorical "Warren will not be my VP" (which anyway would be at best "situational truthiness," subject to retraction as necessary"); (2) a vicious swipe at Senator Sanders (reread the first sentence!).

In any case, don't expect Killary's Best Pupil to endorse Bernie -- it ain't happening. Which is just as well, in case Bernie is being tempted to betray any and all principles of his by offering her his VP slot.

Posted by: corvo | Mar 6 2020 2:33 utc | 343

@ Circe | Mar 6 2020 1:37 utc | 340

”Okay now, remember when I got into Campaign astrology here, and none of you commented. I know some of you probably thought it was wacky, right? Not so fast, I'm being vindicated yet again.”

Wrong. I responded. You either missed it or ignored it.

Let's look at the teaching of a real expert;

Then look at this --

and finally, this, which puts the last several nails firmly into the coffin of the absurdity of astrology --

Let's get rid of this before it takes over every thread on the site.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Mar 6 2020 3:14 utc | 344

Russ 180
VK 183
SharonM 186

Vk has a strong tendency to put words and ideas into other people's mouths, and quote phrases that a reader would assume, from the quotation marks, that the OP used, except that when one checks back the phrase is nowhere to be found in the OP.

I don't see anything in Russ 180 about "Let's go back to the stone age lifestyle" that vk implies Russ stated.

Vk extrapolates from one thing a person says to something VK thinks follows inexorably, then attributes the product of his own logic to the other person. If challenged, he switches the playing field to some other "logical" outcome that wasn't mentioned in by the OP so as to maintain himself in the right. So he keep zigging and zagging to defend his terrain.

William Gruff is also doing this. He responds to SharonM by "explaining" to her that "back to nature" ideas cannot work. But I see nothing in any of SharonM's posts about "back to nature" ideas. Gruff uses the phrase in a derisory way to shoot down a straw man.

Normally I agree with a lot of Gruff's views but I do not like the arrogant know-it-all tone with which he dispatches ideas that others have not even expressed. Nor even implied. Also, I do think a lot of his thinking is narrower in scope and hidebound than he realizes. "Realist" Gruff keeps coming back to the idea of a "fantasy" of "growing a couple tomatoes in your backyard." Get over the tomatoes fantasy, Bro! This is not where it is at in the cutting-edge thinking that is now under way as to how to achieve a healthier (for the everyone and the earth) relationship between the city and the countryside/land that feeds it. Maybe Gruff is a McKinsey consultant, stuck in a 20th century paradigm! Thinking that experts and consultants ("we") are going to solve everything for the proles, peasants, and peons. Ha ha!

Sounds to me like alotta mansplaining.

Posted by: Really?? | Mar 6 2020 3:40 utc | 345

Another reason DJT will eat Biden's lunch at any debate;

"Joe Biden Was Instrumental in Launching the Iraq War"

Posted by: ben | Mar 6 2020 3:58 utc | 346

@345 AntiSpin

Do you have a problem with the Farmers' Almanac too??? Hey? How is it that the phases of the Moon affect nature; plant growth, gestation, fertility and so on?

The planets are the mechanics of the Solar System. The Universe has laws based on carrots and sticks to promote physical and spiritual evolution. Karma is REAL. It is the disciplinary function of the Universe.

So then, hmmm, it's just me having fantastic intuition since I was right from 2016 about who Trump really is and who he's beholden to. I was right that Bloomberg was headed for a karmic challenge and boom! it started with a stunning fall a week after I wrote that, although, it's merely the beginning of what's to come for him, not necessarily in the financial sphere. I was right that Biden will have serious obstacles and something bizarre is already emerging.

Lemme tell you something I don't give a rat's ass what Carl Sagan says. I've read Carl Sagan and he's a pompous ass. My mother and father both died in different years from cancer when Saturn was passing through their respective signs: he was diagnosed when Saturn entered Leo and passed away a few months before Saturn exited Leo. In 2019 Saturn was in Capricorn and my mother who was Capricorn passed from cancer. When Saturn passed through my own sign, I went through the most excrutiating time in my life; a literal nightmare. So mister I know what I'm writing about!

Saturn is square to Biden's Scorpio so eventually he's going down in flames. Exactly when? It's already starting, but the cycle lasts almost 3 years. Let's hope he ends up NOT being the nominee.

Actually, I kinda did the political Astrology thing for fun since I remember Huffpost used to have an article on it in the politics section during election cycles, but brother, are you a sourpuss or what?! Are you some kind of religious fanatic or an obtuse science nerd?

My point was that, yes, I have very acute intuition, but I'm not stupid either. The universe is evolution and the position of the planets are the mechanics driving it. Period. And no! It's not going to ocuppy every thread. I was just making the point that I'm being proven right by unfolding events. Got a problem with me being on target too? No doubt. 🙄

Posted by: Circe | Mar 6 2020 4:57 utc | 347

Garry Kasparov should go back to his day job and quit opining on American politics.

Are all chess masters this arrogant and stupid or just Russian-born ones?

Posted by: Circe | Mar 6 2020 5:24 utc | 348

Imagine Biden picking Hillary for a running mate. Should they get elected, Hillary shoots Biden in the back, and she becomes President. What a way into the White House!

Posted by: Robert | Mar 6 2020 5:45 utc | 349

I respect your passion and world view.
You’re right. This shit has gone on long enough.

I fear you will be in for a massive emotional letdown though,
as there is no path for Bernie even in his own party.

My advice: keep blasting your horn. Just prepare for the crash that comes after.
My best regards to you, Circe
Take care and keep fighting the good fight,

Posted by: Sammy | Mar 6 2020 6:06 utc | 350

Really?? | Mar 6 2020 3:40 utc | 346

Those reactionary pro-agribusiness wingnuts simply cannot register two basic facts:

1. Industrial agriculture is not sustainable for reasons of dependency on finite, depleting resources (fossil fuels, fossil phosphorus, fossil aquifers, denuded soil from erosion and toxification, the erosion of the genetic base of crops and the systematic selection of ever more effective pests, weeds, diseases); and that the ecology cannot sustain further assaults upon it.

2. Agroecological science and practice are fully demonstrated and ready for full deployment everywhere that societies would politically care to deploy them. Agroecology on the basis of non-commodified food sovereignty greatly outproduces commodity industrial agriculture in terms of calories and especially nutrition and does so with a vastly lighter ecological impact.

(2) is the practicable alternative to (1). Only entrenched pro-corporate politics keeps the massive government subsidies for commodity agriculture in place. (Industrial agriculture also is unviable in a capitalist sense - it never has turned a profit and always operates at a great loss. Only massive government subsidies to industrial farmers and agribiz keep it going at all.)

What I and other campaigners call for is this transformation. If society refuses to do it (I'm under no illusions there), it won't be for lack of our doing our best to publicize the alternative.

As your comment points out, the reactionaries who want to help prevent this transformation are everywhere and infest even the so-called "alternative" places. Since they're in denial about (1) and absolutely refuse to acknowledge (2) out of stupidity or deliberate obscurantism, they're capable of nothing but to invent a straw man ("go back to stone age", "go back to primitive agriculture").

It's they, of course, who really want to go back to something like the Stone Age. It's they who want to hunker in the bunker 1945-style and push humanity's total dependency on industrial agriculture to the bitter end. Once this system suffers its inevitable collapse, it's they who want to doom humanity to mass famine and the most hardscrabble attempt to grow any food at all out of eroded and poisoned soil, vast deserts left behind by deforestation, all amid the extremes of drought. climate chaos, global heating.

It's they who want to go back to primitive agriculture in the most literal sense.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 6 2020 8:57 utc | 351

Although the argument over agriculture may seem to diverge from the thread topic, it's actually highly relevant to anyone who cares about anything beyond the circus horse-race. It refers to the fact that there's zero constituency for the necessary agricultural transformation in US mainstream politics.

As is standard, Sanders sometimes talks a good game about reforms within the system, not the physical impossibility of sustaining the system itself.

But then, like all "Green New Deal" types who promise a new and improved "green capitalism", Sanders just as much as everyone else implicitly proposes to continue keeping the great majority of people out of food production. This can only mean perpetuating industrial agriculture, which in itself is the greatest driver of the climate crisis as it's the #1 emitter among corporate sectors and by far the greatest destroyer of carbon sinks.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 6 2020 9:05 utc | 352

chu teh #321

Biden, the senator from Dupont!

How could it be otherwise? He's a poster-child for USA's rule-of-law game.

Biden for President? Well fair enough when you consider that DuPont is represented in almost every municipal water supply and river throughout the USA with its very pervasive C8 representative. Almost every human in the USA is awash with C8 so why not let DuPont have its man as president. Gine the dramatic increase in bladder cancers etc., then we need a medicare insurance boondogle to protect DuPont (and a few elite citizens).

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 6 2020 10:24 utc | 353

@298 Circe Writes:

Instead of continuing his campaign fighting to get somewhere you would rather he be mired in a viral food fight...

[Bernie] is to be commended and respected for all he has acieved already and your judgmental ignorance is beyond offensive!

Bernie won't win playing "Revolutionary" while regurgitating "deep state" agitprop. He lacks the will to challenge the empire's slanders. He lacks the loyalty to support allies who do.

Posted by: SR | Mar 6 2020 10:32 utc | 354

Circe #348

Thank you for your vehement posts. I am not phased. Comfortable with almanacs as well.

Carl Sagan !! 👎 That clown totally dismissed a serious work of science by Robert Temple without even considering the issues and factual evidence. Self opinionated gimp would be a good description. So certain of his modern western scientific culture that he wouldn't recognise wisdom if it poked him in the eye.

Sad about the rigged election but then..... Greg Palast nails it.

Warren will certainly back Biden in my estimate, a skunk is always at home with a pig.🤬

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 6 2020 11:38 utc | 355

The commentariat here wasting time with virulent attacks on Bernie Sanders, when all it will achieve is a Joe Biden nomination. All that fake worries about Sanders being a deep state puppet etc.

It's like, even the "vote for the lesser evil" narrative doesn't apply anymore - everything is valid to stop socialism in the USA.

The far-left shouldn't operate as an auxiliary of the right. Vote and support Sanders now, stop the bleeding, and live to fight another day under better conditions. Don't let the great be the enemy of good.

Posted by: vk | Mar 6 2020 11:40 utc | 356

great caitlin johnstone article on biden's mental decline:

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 6 2020 13:04 utc | 357

The NYT has just upped the ante:

As Bernie Sanders Pushed for Closer Ties, Soviet Union Spotted Opportunity

The gloves are off.

Posted by: vk | Mar 6 2020 13:52 utc | 358

the nyt, apparently a subsidiary of the intel community, does love to warmonger, particularly against russia.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 6 2020 13:59 utc | 359

i'm not sure warren will endorse biden, she preserves the pathetic tattered shreds of her reputation with her supporters by just not endorsing and sniping at sanders while ignoring biden's increasinly obvious dementia. it's all a political calculation, as it always is on her part, but that's just my impression of her likely strategy. at this point, she seems likely to be primaried the next time she is up for reelection in the senate; finishing third in massachusetts made her vulnerability obvious.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 6 2020 14:02 utc | 360

Circe | Mar 6 2020 4:57 utc | 348

When I was in college, I was constantly approached by female students with the same question -- "what's your sign?"

I always responded that I did not know. They would then ask "when were you born?" In every case I gave a different month and day. They would ALWAYS respond with "oh, of course, you're a [whatever]. That's so obvious -- I should have known."


Carl Sagan's contributions to science and to the efforts for peace in this world are worth several millions of times your pathetic and bombastic asservations about anything.


I don't give a rat's ass about your coincidences -- it's completely clear that you never looked at the sites I linked to. One of them -- this site --
lists a considerable number of overwhelming scientific evidences and proofs that absolutely demolish every one of your claims for the bogus nonsense of astrology, showing with complete clarity that they are utterly impossible. I dare you to read it.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Mar 6 2020 14:52 utc | 361

I sometimes go to Dailykos, to see what they're up to, but I can never stay long because I just cannot stomach the hypocrisy and Neoliberalism there and the vicious hatred for Bernie Sanders. I'm a big believer in Karma. I believe that Neoliberalism that brought us the war in Libya and Syria is evil, that supported the Patriot Act before that, and escalated the war in Afghanistan, that cares so much about human rights in Syria and Venezuela it's willing to support severe sanctions and proxy wars that HURT PEOPLE, not governments and leaders, people damnit, but they won't touch sanctioning Israel, or defunding Israel that has a 70-year record of pretending to be a democracy when it's really a fascist theocracy egregiously abusing the rights of millions of human beings while stealing their land, their homes and sometimes demolishing property and razing and contaminating farmland, destroying their electrical and sewer systems and infrastructure, schools and hospitals and killing them by the hundreds and sometimes thousands yearly. THIS. Neoliberals approve of or don't rail against!

And don't get me started on how they treat Rashida Tlaib and Ilan Omar. Unlike Republicans, these neoliberal Democrats eat their own. They crucified them and branded them anti-Semites, and virulently attack Bernie Sanders who is Jewish, but wants to change Israel policy and has the audacity to wanna be President using the Democratic structure. He is tarred and feathered there. They would rather sacrifice the only candidate who can defeat Trump, the first Jewish Congressperson achieving the Presidency than allow him to treat Israel as a human rights abuser, and fight corporate and billionaire influence corruption in Washington.

So what did they do? They plotted against him, and cheated him out of the Presidency in 2016. Ahhhhhh, but here's where KARMA finally bit them in the ass! Queen Hillary was slated to win by all polls and projections, the massive fiesta was ready to ring in her victory and then the clock struck midnight and Trump took over the show and the Neoliberal Queen was done and unthroned.

The moment was rich in irony and karma, i.e. necessary correction. So did they learn their lesson after 4 years of Trump trauma? NOOOOO! There they are STILL trashing and machinating against Bernie and propping up Joe Biden, a vicious defender of Israel and the corporate elite sucking the blood of the oppressed, the working class and the poor. Joe Biden is a Conservative centrist neoliberal, but they don't care! Anyone but Bernie Sanders!

So this time, Karma is being kinder and gentler. Their candidate is justly, rightly imploding in full view BEFORE they crown him the Nominee. So they still have a chance to quit with their hate-driven, STOP BERNIE machinations and treat fairly the only candidate who can defeat Trump. And still they persist in propping up declining Joe who's going to lose miserably and pathetically to Trump, who Trump will crush without mercy, and they will be stuck with 4 more years of even more severe penance with Trump because Trump's full narcissistic power will be unleashed in his 2nd term and he will cause serious, irreversible damage both domestically and on a global scale.

And all this shet will rain down on the rest of us as well because they just can't handle Bernie Sanders becoming the next President, cleaning up corruption and putting people, ALL people first. SICK.

Excuse me now, I was over at Dailykos and I really need a shower now.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 6 2020 15:03 utc | 362

Robert | Mar 6 2020 5:45 utc | 350 Imagine Michelle Oh Bummer

In time like these I would not be surprised to see Biden matched with the Negro Lady Oh Bummer... It's theater, comic farce.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 6 2020 15:21 utc | 363

sanders isn't ignoring industrial agriculture. this looks like just another smear job on sanders.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 6 2020 15:27 utc | 364

vk, i think stopping even the tepid center form of socialism that sanders represents is paramount to some posters here.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 6 2020 15:29 utc | 365

Okay, I have to write this because there's only so much condescension people should be subjected to by someone WHO'S JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU.

Elizabeth Warren was on Rachel Maddow last night and she's already mounting an EXCUSE not to back Bernie Sanders and the progressive movement. Even after Bernie repeatedly condemned nasty behaviour online as have many of his supporters, graciously praising her campaign, she can't let go of her bitterness, because it's no longer really about the online nastiness that I've seen on all sides online, it's about HER.NOT US. It's about her freaking ambition and ego!

You all witnessed her literally destroy the progressive movement not backing out before Super Tuesday, sucking away percentages in every state, denying Sanders a win in MULTIPLE states, while coming in 3rd in her state and 4th on average nationally with very few delegates to justify her disastrous decision. She did serious damage that night. People were justifiably angry; they're human, and this moment in history is too critical to stop and worry about hurt feelings! People say and write things in the heat of the moment. She received countless apologies and still she couldn't bring herself to say, okay, I accept Bernie condemning the nastiness, so let's move on now, let's work together for the common good. But noooh, she had to twist the knife instead when Bernie's heading towards the Michigan primary! Why is she dilly-dallying when her support is critical right now?

LET HER GO!!! Stop apologizing to her; it will never be enough because her intent is not honorable! Stop giving her importance and an opening to keep rebuking and rejecting US. ENOUGH. Now, she's being cruel for someone who has no intention of endorsing Sanders! So stop waiting, longing for a lifeline from her, anxious for her every word to be what you most want to hear! Stop kidding yourselves.

Let Warren go off into the sunset of IRRELEVANCE after literally decimating the progressive moment and kicking it to the curb with the knowledge that Biden is a TERRIBLE candidate, who if he doesn't implode will be pulverized by Trump. She knows this but she's decided that if she can't lead the progressive movement, she'll see to it Bernie doesn't either and therefore gives a rats' ass that Trump will usher in 4 years of unbridled fascism.

She's just not that into the US part, so let go of her ankles and move forward with dignity.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 6 2020 17:32 utc | 366

The above is a link to Bernie Sanders repeatedly saying that there are only two candidates left in the Dem race, as well as saying what a good friend Joe Biden is. So he's erasing Tulsi Gabbard while she's trying to get on the debate stage? He's an asshole.

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 6 2020 17:50 utc | 367

To paraphrase Bernie Sanders: "We will go after wall street. We will go after the pharmaceutical industry. We will go after the health care industry. We will go after the insurance industry. We will go after the military industrial complex. We will cancel all student debt." All are laudable aims. But there's a world of difference between a campaign of convincing people that change is needed and implementing the political strategies that would have any hope of bringing about those changes. Now in fairness to Sanders, raising peoples awareness is important and a necessary first step. But Sanders isn't stupid and he surely knows that he's not the person that will bring about any of the changes he's been talking about for years.

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 6 2020 17:52 utc | 368

wapo;nazi flag flies at bernies ralleys!

Posted by: dahoit | Mar 6 2020 18:57 utc | 369


OH FFS! Tulsi has ONE delegate!!! You'll use anything to trash Sanders; you came on here as a NEVER Sanders. So quit the concern tr👺lling already!

@369 Carciofi


Posted by: Circe | Mar 6 2020 19:02 utc | 370


First of all, be clear. Someone in the rafter seats got up waving a Nazi flag at a rally in Arizona to offend Sanders and security hauled that nutcase away seconds later before Sanders even saw him.

Nazi flag Sanders rally

Posted by: Circe | Mar 6 2020 19:11 utc | 371

@Circe #342
The link you provided was a puff piece: zero data, just a commentary.
The numbers I put up are from the California Secretary of State - Bernie Sanders received more than 1 million fewer votes in 2020 than 2016.
Turnout was also far, far lower: more than 2 million difference: 3 million vs. 5 million.

Posted by: c1ue | Mar 6 2020 19:11 utc | 372


I'll interpret your ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ to mean what I wrote is so obvious that it was hardly necessary to point it out. ;)

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 6 2020 19:18 utc | 373

"OH FFS! Tulsi has ONE delegate!!!"

Spoken just like the DNC itself. Sanders was supposed to do that, wasn't he? Round up the progressives and left-leaners, then deliver the nomination to the neoliberal, his "good friend" Biden. Clever. He really took away votes from Tulsi by running.

Posted by: SharonM | Mar 6 2020 19:25 utc | 374

I've always enjoyed Paul Street's witty, cutting cynicism as he analyzes the Outlaw US Empire's politics and their presentation. His essay for this weekend skewers many in great need of such treatment. His only problem is his predictability as you already know how he's going to conclude before reaching the end of an otherwise entertaining essay:

"We will not get rid of that elite at the ballot box. I wish we could, but we can’t, and we won’t. Sorry. There’s no electoral politics Santa Claus, not even an Easter Bunny/Bernie."

But even Street isn't calling outright for Revolution--yet.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 6 2020 20:06 utc | 375

The fatal flaws of the Bernie's campaign now befall his biggest acolytes.

I believe it was the Bernie's Beloved Bolshevik Brother, Josef Stalin, who said "real friends stab you in the front." Backstabbing allies while courting Liz the Pretendian ("She's a reptile"... "PLEASE RUN WITH BERNIE" ... "She's a reptile") constitutes really bad strategy.

Your guy's done if he won't stop sucking up to the 'deep state'. I wonder how he will react when anonymous supersecret sources allude to the existence of a pee-tape with Bernie engaged in a ménage à trois with Stalin and Hitler.

Posted by: SR | Mar 7 2020 0:12 utc | 376

Bernie Sanders rally live in Detroit.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 7 2020 0:33 utc | 377


Rep. Tulsi Gabbard eliminated by the DNC rule change.

Constructively, I suggest you do an analysis of the DNC delegates won by Biden cross referenced by states won in the last election by Trump. You will find that most delegates that Biden won were from red states that do not contribute to Democratic party electors tally.

In contrast, Sanders' delegates are more predominantly from blue states which would add democratic electors for the office of President.

Posted by: Krollchem | Mar 7 2020 2:20 utc | 378

This is the kind, gentle version of what I wrote earlier today regarding Warren's hesitation in endorsing Sanders.

It does make a lot of sense on the benefits to Warren endorsing Sanders, but as far as I'm concerned she can do whatever the hell she wants. I'm not playing this game any more.

If anyone's interested in the article, it's very well thought out. It's so logical Spock or Andrew Yang could have written it, but as I stated earlier, this moment is too critical for bruised egos, and hurt feelings, so I'm done with what's good for Warren.

why warren should endorse bernie

Posted by: Circe | Mar 7 2020 3:30 utc | 379

@379 Krollchem

Yes, I know. I already mentioned that fact earlier that's why Bernie still has a good shot because he won important Democratic states. The real test though for both will be who does well in the swing states: Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio and Pennsylvania, but the thumb is on the scale for Biden with all the Congressional endorsements he got. We'll see.

Regarding, Tulsi. The DNC were pushing Warren as the favorite Progressive candidate in the race because she was a woman. Then they pushed all the candidates of color out of the race with their strict fundraising rules, then they changed those rules for the multi-billionaire Bloomberg to get on the debate stage, and now that Tulsi is the only female progressive left in the race they change the rules again to put a muzzle on her, and to protect Biden, their candidate from being tested too harshly by both Sanders and Tulsi. It's to their detriment, because if Biden can't stand up to Sanders and Tulsi, Trump will destroy him later and he'll be merciless.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 7 2020 3:52 utc | 380

VK @ 357

Bernie of course will be stopped by the DNC - Demotardic Nazi Council.

Bernie's relatively mild redistributive tax scheme to redress heinous inequality (not socialism at all actually - why Bernie persists in his quixotic attempt at playing 1960s radical is (his one huge blunder in terms of stifling his electability) is beyond me - however his pushing the conversation left especially among younger people will continue to increase in popularity as the inequality continues to worsen...and who knows....maybe someday soon we will have a political system incorporating progressive economic ideas.

The anti-Bernie oldsters here are just as incomprehensible in their Bernie bashing as Bernie's self defeating insistence that he is a socialist.

Posted by: donkeytale | Mar 7 2020 4:20 utc | 381

Jane Fonda says Bernie Sanders is the only climate candidate left in the race.

Jane Fonda is throwing her support to Bernie Sanders

The protest capped off a whirlwind political week that saw Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden take the lead in the Democratic presidential primary, as candidates Elizabeth Warren, Mike Bloomberg, Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg dropped out. Fonda, who had donated to Klobuchar and Warren, said she's now shifting her support to Sanders.

"We have to get a climate president in office, and there’s only one right now, and that’s Bernie Sanders," she said. "So, I’m indirectly saying I believe you have to support the climate candidate.”

The excerpt is from USAToday. I can't get link to post so you'll have to search it if you're interested in reading more.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 7 2020 4:20 utc | 382

See, Jane was supporting Warren. She's not a crybaby. When Warren dropped out she moved straight to Bernie, because the issues are what really matter. Moving forward is all that matters!

Posted by: Circe | Mar 7 2020 4:24 utc | 383



Biden is supported mainly by red state DNC democrats.

Sanders and Gabbard are supported by blue state progressive democrats.

Sounds like Sanders can form his own party the progressive democrats and leave the DNC to support Trump/Biden.

Posted by: Krollchem | Mar 7 2020 5:11 utc | 384

Posted by: vk | Mar 4 2020 15:39 utc | 199

Kids in school over here still learn Latin which is supposed to be extinct. Fact is that a lot of knowledge was lost for centuries after the demise of the Roman empire. And their religion - as in Roman Catholic - still rules large parts of the world.

Western ruling classes have studied Roman techniques on how to deal with the plebs for ages. Trump is the latest version of "bread, circus and feeding people to the beasts".

The US very much inherited the British, French and Spanish empires, blowing them up in competition with the Soviet Union.

But you are right - the end will be when soldiers have to return to claim their salary.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 7 2020 8:28 utc | 385

Posted by: Krollchem | Mar 7 2020 5:11 utc | 385

So what counts is who has most support in the swing states.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 7 2020 8:34 utc | 386


Yes. Swing states only matter in the electoral college show. The exception is that states do not legally have to honor the choice of the voters per the US Constitution.

Posted by: Krollchem | Mar 7 2020 8:42 utc | 387

Joe Biden has rapidly-advancing dementia. He had 2 brain aneurysms in the late 80's. One of the results of these aneurysms can be an added risk to developing dementia. This is clearly what is happening. No one, except Trump and Hannity, is talking it. Biden has no business running for President, much less becoming President. Ignoring this very obvious situation is just incredibly irresponsible and frankly, scary. His family seems to not care and the DNC sure does not and the voters either don't know or don't care that they are backing a very ill individual.

Posted by: Joanne Murray | Mar 7 2020 13:30 utc | 388

Posted by: Joanne Murray | Mar 7 2020 13:30 utc | 389

Lots of people are talking about it.

This here is Cory Booker asking "you just wonder".

Posted by: somebody | Mar 7 2020 14:13 utc | 389

So, for one of the few times, I agree with Trump.

President Donald Trump on Friday said that Sen. Elizabeth Warren's campaign did not fail because of sexism, but because she's "mean" and lacks "talent."

"I think lack of talent was her problem. She had a tremendous lack of talent," Trump told reporters as he signed an $8 billion coronavirus bill, before going on to say Warren was a good debater who "destroyed Mike it was nothing."

"People don't like her. She's a very mean person. And people don't like her. People don't want that," Trump added.

trump warren failed cause she's mean

I have to agree with everything he said on Warren. But I'll add that she's strategically/designing mean, which is worse! Like when she headed straight to Bernie on live mic after the debate trapping him on stage accusing him of being a liar. So it's really rich that she's STILL whining after her campaign flop about online nastiness after Bernie condemned it and many online apologized and she's still in front of every camera that will capture her continuing with her acrimony over nastiness online when she engaged in some pretty low-down, mean-spirited tactics herself so much so that nastiness online was the consequence of every mean thing she did, the worst just before Super Tuesday, rather than the trend.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 7 2020 15:02 utc | 390

c1ue @373 said "The numbers I put up are from the California Secretary of State - Bernie Sanders received more than 1 million fewer votes in 2020 than 2016."

What am I missing here? They are still counting ballots in California - update: LA County says about 800,000 ballots remain in Los Angeles alone—of which about 250,000 were mail ballots dropped in on Election Day—and keep in mind more could still arrive via mail until tomorrow (if postmarked by yesterday). So... a while to go. -

and then Rosie Memos Rosie memos @almostjingo has this update out of California - "#ElectionUpdate 228,630 mail-in ballots added to Los Angeles brining total number of uncounted votes to 3,476,611" -

These #'s are as of last night. This is just LA. I'm thinking it's a bit premature to suggest 'Sanders received more than 1 million fewer votes...' simply b/c he's picking up, as is Biden, more and more votes.

Posted by: h | Mar 7 2020 15:03 utc | 391

I can't help but wonder what the DNC rules are as it relates to a nominee who becomes impaired during an election? Something tells me that the nomination would automatically default to his/her VP.

If so, then the set-up may very well be to prop Biden up all the way to the nomination, win it then default awhile later, which leaves the VP to accept the nomination who would then select the running mate.

If so, then the word 'rigging' hardly captures their intent. More like 'stealing' or something along those lines.

As many are suggesting rightly, there is no way Biden could ever debate Trump live on TV. His onset of dementia would become crystal clear to the electorate and that would do even more serious damage to an already tattered party. So, whatever the play is at hand regarding the propping up of Biden has everything to do with who is selected by the establishment to run as his VP. This is where the game at hand is being played out.

Posted by: h | Mar 7 2020 15:19 utc | 392

Bernie Sanders rally Grant Park Chicago live!

Posted by: Circe | Mar 7 2020 20:10 utc | 393

h #393

As many are suggesting rightly, there is no way Biden could ever debate Trump live on TV. His onset of dementia would become crystal clear to the electorate and that would do even more serious damage to an already tattered party. So, whatever the play is at hand regarding the propping up of Biden has everything to do with who is selected by the establishment to run as his VP. This is where the game at hand is being played out.

I can't see Biden surviving the next debate with Sanders. One on one for Biden will be a shit show of dementia versus clear logical thinking. With lots of debaters Biden could only just hide with all the time being partitioned six ways. Given a One on one and Biden will be nailed to the wall.

This DNC convention is shaping up to be a crude and gross abuse of power ever seen. I have stated my view on who the Biden Dementia Party will choose as the VP and won't repeat her name again. My keyboard is too pure for THAT name to be typed.

But an obscene DNC convention is just around the corner. I figure the evil ones will desperately purge the Sanders ideology this time round as it will only amplify next time and the DNC only exists to manage billionaire campaign funds and keep their jobs and not be a nursery for democratic socialists.

Bernie and Tulsi may have their third party option decided for them by the ignorance and rigidity of the DNC. I hope they are prepared.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 7 2020 22:24 utc | 394

It's they who want to go back to primitive agriculture in the most literal sense.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 6 2020 8:57 utc | 352

Well said.
Let's take every opportunity to call out these arrogant "consultants." I recall reading a piece by John Lanchester in The New Yorker. It started out with some nostalgia about his mom'e apple pie and other foodie tropes. But then he segued into his real topic, which was how the world's billions were to be provided with food. After lounging around in apple-pie nostalgia, suddenly Lanchester reveals himself as part of "we"! That hegemonic authoritarian elitest "we" who assume that they are they are put on earth with the intellectual whereiwthal to solve the earth's problems, without actually consulting the other people for whose salvation "we" are exercising their gray cells. Very hubristic and indeed provincial, since most of these types probably can't even grow that "couple of tomatoes in the backyard" nor would they actually know what to do with a hoe. The oozing sense of superiority is even more glaring given the (unacknowledged by "we") fact that many of the world's peoples for whom "we" are looking for "solutions" (funny, they all seem to come down to some version of [agri]business as usual) have been deracinated by globalist an corporate forces so that they in fact can no longer provide for their own and the food market's food. Tampering with local ways of farming has led to so many "unintended consequences." Just one example, India, where thousands of farmers commit suicide because they see no way out of the entanglements of various kinds that "modern" agriculture has ensnared them in. Not to mention the trap of patenting seeds so as to imprison farmers in the criminal corporate spider's web---seeds of food plants originally domesticated by such farmers.

Regarding the influence of the moon on agriculture and every living thing, an idea derided by many of the "we" class. It actually seems kind of logical, from a physics point of view. We (the real we!) know that the moon exerts a compelling force on the behavior of every drop, every molecule, of water on the planet. We also know that virtually all living things require water or even consist mostly of water. So it seems pretty likely that the moon's phases and distance from the earth can affect agriculture.

Posted by: Really?? | Mar 8 2020 1:09 utc | 395

Really?? 396

Well said as well. The New Yorker never misses a chance to shill for poison-based agriculture, fracking, drone warfare and what have you. At least they get paid for it.

As for the pathetic unpaid hacks who shill for these on comment threads, it's best to strip away all extraneous details and see them for what they are: Devotees of the religion of the ecocidal system who have nothing left but denial and ever more strident profession of the ideology of the economic civilization.

That's their only measure of "science" as well: Their corporate-dictated science decrees that industrial poisons are good, corporate vaccines are good, climate science is bad, ecological science including agroecology is bad, historical public health practice (mostly empirical, based on low-tech basic sanitation and such, responsible for almost all the health gains of the modern era, and of course assuming affordable access to health care) is bad, and so on.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 8 2020 7:22 utc | 396

Mark2 @128 wrote:
Be sure to remind us all not to listen to your screams, when it’s your turn to suffer at the hands of the US elite. Maybe you’ll be in a fema/refugee camp or just a ghetto with no health cover, opps but here comes a pandemic ! Someone will tell you to stop screaming. Like you did with Middle East refugees, palistine or 2nd world war Jews! No one will listen to you.

I admit with no little embarrassment that the appropriate response to this didn't occur to me at the time. An appropriate response would be to make an exhaustive list of everything the Democratic Party "opposition" has proposed to limit the increasingly dictatorial powers that government in general and the president in particular exercise over the American people.

Herewith the list:


Posted by: corvo | Mar 9 2020 19:35 utc | 397

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