Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 11, 2020

U.S. Warms Up Its Own Old Spy Stories To Bash Putative Chinese Espionage

The Washington Post is warming up an old crypto story:

For more than half a century, governments all over the world trusted a single company to keep the communications of their spies, soldiers and diplomats secret.

The company, Crypto AG, got its first break with a contract to build code-making machines for U.S. troops during World War II. Flush with cash, it became a dominant maker of encryption devices for decades, navigating waves of technology from mechanical gears to electronic circuits and, finally, silicon chips and software.

The Swiss firm made millions of dollars selling equipment to more than 120 countries well into the 21st century. Its clients included Iran, military juntas in Latin America, nuclear rivals India and Pakistan, and even the Vatican.

But what none of its customers ever knew was that Crypto AG was secretly owned by the CIA in a highly classified partnership with West German intelligence. These spy agencies rigged the company’s devices so they could easily break the codes that countries used to send encrypted messages.

The decades-long arrangement, among the most closely guarded secrets of the Cold War, is laid bare in a classified, comprehensive CIA history of the operation obtained by The Washington Post and ZDF, a German public broadcaster, in a joint reporting project.

That Crypto AG had been a CIA/NSA/BND operation has been known for decades. One wonders why the CIA history was now leaked to the Washington Post and to the German state TV channel ZDF.

Scott Shane @ScottShaneNYT - 14:38 UTC · Feb 11, 2020

Back in 1995 at the @baltimoresun, with @TBowmanNPR, I wrote a long story on the NSA's covert relationship with Crypto AG, allowing the US to read the secrets of many countries: link. Now @gregpmiller got the official CIA history of this decades-long project.

Greg's story is a fascinating read on what we described in 1995 as one of the great intelligence operations of the Cold War filling in details we could only guess at 25 years ago. I'm glad to see we got the story right.

I recall vividly how at the end of my trip to Switzerland in 1995 to find former employees of Crypto AG, one of them managed to find a smoking-gun memo from 1975 that showed an NSA crypto mathematician named Nora Mackebee had attended a Crypto design meeting.

Two years after Scott Shane broke the story Wayne Madsen basically plagiarized it to write a similar story for some conspiracy lovers magazine:
Sanho Tree @SanhoTree - 13:48 UTC · Feb 11, 2020

For the record, I published the Crypto AG story 23 years ago when I was an editor at Covert Action Quarterly.

If you want to understand why the US intelligence community is so freaked out about Huawei, it’s because they’ve been playing the same game for decades. Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore?

---
Scott Shane @ScottShaneNYT - 15:05 UTC · Feb 11, 2020

Replying to @SanhoTree
And for the record, the CAQ story from 1997 relied mainly on the @baltimoresun story I wrote with @tbowman in 1995: RIGGING THE GAME

The Swiss company Crypto AG became useless for the NSA when people moved to standard computers to encrypt their information and used the Internet to send it. It needed some other companies it could manipulate.

Around that time this writer was the chief technical officer of a large Internet access company. When we had to select a firewall platform for our internal networks we cynically discussed if it would be preferable to buy Cisco equipment, to then be spied on by the NSA, or to buy from the Israeli company Checkpoint which likely had a Mossad backdoor. (We bought both and stacked them.)

That such cynicism was wholly justified became evident when Edward Snowden revealed the NSA machinations. Soon thereafter Juniper Networks, a provider of large backbone equipment, was found to have at least two NSA backdoors in its operation system. Other 'western' telecommunication equipment companies were similarly manipulated:

Even neutral countries firms are not off-limits to NSA manipulations. A former Crypto AG employee confirmed that high-level US officials approached neutral European countries and argued that their cooperation was essential to the Cold War struggle against the Soviets. The NSA allegedly received support from cryptographic companies Crypto AG and Gretag AG in Switzerland, Transvertex in Sweden, Nokia in Finland, and even newly-privatized firms in post-Communist Hungary. In 1970, according to a secret German BND intelligence paper, supplied to the author, the Germans planned to "fuse" the operations of three cryptographic firms-Crypto AG, Grattner AG (another Swiss cipher firm), and Ericsson of Sweden.

So why was the allegedly secret CIA history of an already known story leaked right now? And why was it also leaked to a German TV station?

Sanho Tree points to the likely reason:

If you want to understand why the US intelligence community is so freaked out about Huawei, it’s because they’ve been playing the same game for decades.

The WaPo story itself also makes that connection:

There are also echoes of Crypto in the suspicions swirling around modern companies with alleged links to foreign governments, including the Russian anti-virus firm Kaspersky, a texting app tied to the United Arab Emirates and the Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei.

The warmed up Crypto AG story is a subtle smear piece against Huawei and Kapersky.

The U.S. wants to convince European countries to not buy Huawei products for their 5G networks. It wants to remind them that telecommunication products can be manipulated. It wants to instill fear that China would use Huawei to spy on foreign countries just like the U.S. used Crypto AG.

This is also the reason for this recent misleading Reuters headline which the story itself debunked:

Germany has proof that Huawei worked with Chinese intelligence: Handelsblatt

"At the end of 2019, intelligence was passed to us by the U.S., according to which Huawei is proven to have been cooperating with China's security authorities," the newspaper quoted a confidential foreign ministry document as saying.

'U.S. intelligence' that is handed over to manipulate someone is of course not 'proof' for anything.

The U.S. is pressing its allies on a very high level:

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo declared the Chinese Communist Party “the central threat of our times” on Thursday, even as he sought to talk up the prospects of a United States trade deal with Britain, which rebuffed American pressure to ban a Chinese company from future telecommunications infrastructure.

The scathing criticism of the Chinese government was the strongest language Mr. Pompeo has used as the Trump administration seeks to convince American allies of the risks posed by using equipment from Huawei, a Chinese technology giant.

A week after Pompeo's panic message Trump took to the phone to convince Boris Johnson who was not impressed:

Donald Trump’s previously close relationship with UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson looks close to collapse, following new revelations that the president slammed down the phone on him.

Trump’s behaviour during last week’s call was described by officials as „apoplectic,“ and Johnson has now reportedly shelved plans for an imminent visit to Washington.
...
The call, which one source described to the Financial Times as „very difficult,“ came after Johnson defied Trump and allowed Chinese telecoms company Huawei the rights to develop the UK’s 5G network.

Trump’s fury was triggered by Johnson backing Huawei despite multiple threats by Trump and his allies that the United States would withdraw security co-operation with the UK if the deal went ahead.

Trump’s threats reportedly „irritated“ the UK government, with Johnson frustrated at the president’s failure to suggest any alternatives to the deal.

Huawei products are pretty good, relatively cheap and readily available. They are just as buggy as the products of other equipment providers. The real reason why the U.S. does not want anyone to buy Huawei products is that it is the one large network company the U.S. can not convince to provide it with backdoors.

European countries do not fear China or even Chinese spying. They know that the U.S. is doing similar on a much larger scale. Europeans do not see China as a threat and they do not want to get involved in the escalating U.S.-China spat:

"Whose side should your country take in a conflict between the US and China?"

Source - bigger

The U.S. just indicted four Chinese military officers for the 2017 hacking of Equifax during which millions of addresses and financial data were stolen. The former CIA Director General Michael Hayden had defended such pilfering as "honorable espionage" and Equifax had made it laughably easy to get into its systems:

[J]ust five days after Equifax went public with its breach — KrebsOnSecurity broke the news that the administrative account for a separate Equifax dispute resolution portal catering to consumers in Argentina was wide open, protected by perhaps the most easy-to-guess password combination ever: “admin/admin.”

To indict foreign military officers for spying when they simply pilfered barely protected servers is seen as offensive. What will the U.S. do when China does likewise?

Every nation spies. It is one of the oldest trades in this world. That the U.S. is making such a fuss about putative Chinese spying when it itself is the biggest sinner is unbecoming.

Posted by b on February 11, 2020 at 18:52 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Do as I say, not as I do
Nice point about the Crypto AG info having been released before.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 11 2020 18:58 utc | 1

They have nothing on the efficiency of the Israelis. You don't even have to break in there. They will deliver the information directly to your phone.

"In vast breach, Likud campaign leaks ID, phones, addresses of all Israeli adults"
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-vast-breach-likud-campaign-leaks-id-phones-addresses-of-all-israeli-adults/

Posted by: BraveNewWorld | Feb 11 2020 19:01 utc | 2

"The warmed up Crypto AG story is a subtle smear piece against Huawei and Kapersky."

The Post would work a dig at Russia into a piece on the Westminster Dog Show; Doping of a Russian wolfhound maybe.

Posted by: Bart Hansen | Feb 11 2020 19:09 utc | 3

David Goldman over at AsiaTimes has been reporting on Huawei's plans to secure their 5g networks with Quantum Cryptography which apparently would prevent anyone, including the NSA, from inserting backdoors/eavesdropping on the network thus rendering the more than 80 billion dollar per year U.S. signals intelligence programs essentially useless. Here is a link to the full article with more details:

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/07/article/us-china-tech-war-and-the-us-intelligence-community/>Headline


It would be great to get your perspective on this MOA!

Posted by: Mike R. | Feb 11 2020 19:16 utc | 4

Soooo now, the empire can't be privy to other countries secrets globally, they just illegally destroy them?

So there is a reason for "forever wars"..

Posted by: ben | Feb 11 2020 19:35 utc | 5

Article said,
"we had to select a firewall platform for our internal networks...We bought both and stacked them."
.
So would you do that today? Stack Kaspersky with Huawei with Cisco? In what order?

Posted by: librul | Feb 11 2020 19:35 utc | 6

I'll never understand why countries would rely on a foreign company to protect their secrets. It all should be done in-house. The MSC opinion poll shows how many nations are getting sick and tired of the US.

Posted by: Ian2 | Feb 11 2020 19:39 utc | 7

Mike R.@4 your link doesn't work. I believe it's US-China tech war and the US intelligence community but it's attributed to Spengler.

In addition to neutralizing the $80 Billion NSA program, it means the spooks will have to actually get off their asses to get their Intel.

Posted by: Ian2 | Feb 11 2020 19:56 utc | 8

Thought you would go there.

I posted a link to Sputniknews on that 'crypto piece' and thought it weird the source was Wapo; for decades they've been the media arm of the Langley boys and gals.

Something is up. Imo the 'do as I say' Huawei diktat denotes fear on the part of U.S..as it's [U.S.] technology is far behind the Chinese.

Weird. they are accusing Huawei of the very acts they employ.

OTH, a puzzle.
Recently, following the Pentagon's decision, (Amazon lost the 10 billion war cloud contract to MSOFT), Wapo Bezos' rag has turned with more expose articles. ...on the warpath.
On Monday, Bezos now seeks to depose Trump in his lawsuit.

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 11 2020 19:56 utc | 9

The Washington Post must have some reason to dig up this old story but it has nothing to do with the Chinese. Crypto AG and Huawei have so little in common that nobody will think of any connection between them.

Crypto AG was a maker of encryption/decryption devices from tiny Switzerland and it spied for the US and its allies, mainly between the 1950s and the 1980s.

Huawei is known mainly as a producer of consumer products in China in the 21st century.

My guess is that something about Crypto AG is about to be revealed, and this is a way of slowly feeding the story in a way that it does not make headlines. When the story comes out, people will think 'Oh, we know most of that already, it's old news'. Classic news management.

Crypto AG was involved in all sorts of criminal acts. The most notable was when one of its devices was used by UN chief Dag Hammarskjold before he died in a plane crash in 1961.

Posted by: Brendan | Feb 11 2020 19:59 utc | 10

it seems cia and bnd started their work with crypto ag just in that moment, when became known, that the enigma coding machine was already hacked while wwII. this was a big surprise for the germans, because they still had this thing in use at their embassies worldwide. you have to be a worm in this world.

Posted by: rico rose | Feb 11 2020 19:59 utc | 11

During the research for a book, I discovered that the UK gave Australia a coding machine (basically a revised Lorenz from WW2). This was in the early 1950s or just before and with the cipher they were assured to read all Australian secret messages. We, South Africa, to this day, never use computer storage for reports, etc. but paper that can be protected more easily. Quite amusing the above. Note also that Chinese internet devices control 80-90% of the internet in Africa. Okay, why is this important? Simply because sub-Saharan Africa is where the terrorists fled and flee to from the Middle East and other places. See Code Name Wednesday 7 how we picked them up via their new mosques. Regards, GMJ

Posted by: GMJ | Feb 11 2020 20:04 utc | 12

thanks b...no shortage of hypocrisy in all this...

regarding @ 4 mike r which @8 ian2 linked properly to, i enjoyed the last paragraph which i think sums it up well.. here it is..

"I continue to believe that the United States cannot effectively restrict the spread of a technology under Chinese leadership without offering a superior product of its own. The fact that the United States has attempted to suppress Huawei’s market leadership in the absence of any American competitor in this field is one of the oddest occurrences in the history of US foreign policy. If the US were to announce something like a Manhattan Project for 5G broadband and solicit the cooperation of its European and Asian allies, it probably would get an enthusiastic response. As matters stand, America’s efforts to stop Huawei have become an embarrassment."

Posted by: james | Feb 11 2020 20:13 utc | 13

EU eyes larger security role in Pacific: ambassador

"The European Union says it wants a greater security role in the Pacific and will have no problem working with China in a region where Beijing has boosted its influence in recent years.

Speaking in the wake of Brexit, the EU's ambassador for the Pacific, Sujiro Seam, told AFP he wanted the bloc to forge deeper trading ties and play a more active political role in the region.

Seam, who began his four-year term in September, said he aimed to change perceptions in the Pacific that the EU was primarily an aid donor which also helped out with humanitarian assistance when required.

"We are the largest free market in the world -- we give the opportunity for Pacific island countries to access that free market through a series of economic partnership agreements," he told AFP from Fiji, where he is based.

Part of what Seam described as a "rebalance" in EU-Pacific relations is an ambition for increased military and security cooperation.

"I would like the European Union to play a more prominent political role, and of course a strategic political role comes with credibility," he said."

https://japantoday.com/category/world/eu-eyes-larger-security-role-in-pacific-ambassador


Appears US mob tactics aren't winning many friends across the pond.

Posted by: Bubbles | Feb 11 2020 20:25 utc | 14

Great article Bernhard!

I am right now planning my new network equipment setup.
IMHO all companys are infiltrated, just like you confirm in the last paragraph.

I will throw out that provider router/modem thing, go for a real dumb modem in bridge mode so my ISP can not remote access my router or any device, then setup my own opensense firewall+router+switch+IDS+IPS on a low power x86 box, seperate network access via vlan, and running all network traffic through a small VPN provider i trust more than the crap most people, even informed people, recommed.
All devices Desktop and Laptop run Linux, with seperation by VMs, and with blocked WAN access if necessary.
LUKS2 full disk encryption with ultra long, random passwords for both bare metal and virtualized systems.
Passwords stored either in my brain alone or in an even safer place or way or whatever. ;)
Soon as phone a Pinephone running true Linux, with also LUKS2 encryption.

And even with that, running only open source hypervisor+OS, there is still at least those possible threats:

-UEFI. Sadly coreboot and libreboot are only available on a few and outdated devices.

-Intel management engine and similar blackbox closed source blobs

-Infiltration of the FOSS projects. When the NSA can infiltrate standard bodies for developing web standards and even ecryption standards, they can even more easily infiltrate any FOSS project. As most are not even audited, and as even that is no protection, FOSS is no garantuee. Still better than any closed source product though ofc.

-VPN-Provider: Most like Nord VPN who is/has partnered with Tesonet, a big data firm, are the best present you can give to the NSA. An they can either be forced to work with the NSA when in US, or easily infiltrated by NSA or partners.
And even the small provider of idealists i plan to use could be infiltrated by a rouge team member.
-TOR may offer a big advantage, but also can be infiltrated or decrypted, though only in targeted attacks, not as mass surveillance (at least that is what is consensus atm AFAIK).

Why am i planning to do this? Partly interest (one can learn very much), partly as passive resistance against a big brother state every citizen should fight, partly to later on share my findings for others.
Bloggers like you (not you, you obviously know what you are doing better than i do with your work experience), but also others who want to post and express themselves freely, without being a dataset in some STASI like NSA or BND database.

I watched a quite good documentary about surveillance in west Germany, it is some years old. The US has forced their "partner" since end of WWII into secret agreements (even before parliament) to be able to shit on our constitution and mass surveillance our country since then.

A top level BND spy said: The US and BND were always 30 years ahead of the rest of the computer industry.
If you look at this now it means, all major, still trusted encryption schemes are likely broken, one way or another.
So really it is likely not possible to protect oneself and fight back against the unconstitutional big brother regime we live in.
And that is as sad as it gets.

As it stands today, our constitution is not worth the paper it is written on.

Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr. | Feb 11 2020 20:29 utc | 15

The reason European customers trust Huawei is because Huawei uses open-source software or at least makes their code available for inspection by customers.

Closed-source software cannot provide secrecy or security. This was vividly demonstrated last month when NSA revealed a critical vulnerability in Windows 10 that rendered any cryptographic security worthless.

Critical Windows 10 vulnerability used to Rickroll the NSA and Github

Rashid's simulated attack exploits CVE-2020-0601, the critical vulnerability that Microsoft patched on Tuesday after receiving a private tipoff from the NSA. As Ars reported, the flaw can completely break certificate validation for websites, software updates, VPNs, and other security-critical computer uses. It affects Windows 10 systems, including server versions Windows Server 2016 and Windows Server 2019. Other versions of Windows are unaffected.

The flaw involves the way the new versions of Windows check the validity of certificates that use elliptic-curve cryptography. While the vulnerable Windows versions check three ECC parameters, they fail to verify a fourth, crucial one, which is known as a base point generator and is often represented in algorithms as 'G.' This failure is a result of Microsoft's implementation of ECC rather than any flaw or weakness in the ECC algorithms themselves.

The attacker examines the specific ECC algorithm used to generate the root-certificate public key and proceeds to craft a private key that copies all of the certificate parameters for that algorithm except for the point generator. Because vulnerable Windows versions fail to check that parameter, they accept the private key as valid. With that, the attacker has spoofed a Windows-trusted root certificate that can be used to mint any individual certificate used for authentication of websites, software, and other sensitive properties.

I do not believe this vulnerability was a bug. It is more likely a backdoor intentionally left in the code for NSA to utilize. Whatever the case, NSA must have known about it for years. Why did they reveal it now? Most likely someone else had discovered the back door and may have been about to publish it.

(I commented on these same issues on Sputnik a few weeks ago.)

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Feb 11 2020 20:38 utc | 16

GMJ @ 12 -this also feeds into the insecurity of voting machines! Those of us who were aware in 2000 already know this, but back door stuff has huge implications for the US voting scenario. Unless paper gets used and little old ladies in counting rooms I am not, I say NOT, voting!!!

Posted by: juliania | Feb 11 2020 20:47 utc | 17

Let's not forget Israel, which has backdoored the NSA for years, getting everything before the US agency. Am I being antisemitic?

Posted by: Joetv | Feb 11 2020 21:45 utc | 18

See the National Security Archive on the CIA, Crypto AG and Operation Condor:

Link

Posted by: Barovsky | Feb 11 2020 21:48 utc | 19

The irony of this is that I have it from a Chinese Huawei engineer that they inserted backdoors into the equipment installed in Belgium at the request of Belgian intelligence.

So that although the ostensible reason for opposing Huawei is that they may spy for China, and although the supposed covert reason for opposing Huawei is that the West can not spy using their equipment, the Belgian case shows the contrary.

The other possible US objection is that Huawei will only let their customers spy, not third countries.

Posted by: Paul Cockshott | Feb 11 2020 21:57 utc | 20

@ DontBelieveEitherPr. | Feb 11 2020 20:29 utc | 16

Don't forget to be mindful of what network interface controller your system uses. All modern ones are PCI based and have direct access to the system bus and main memory. Any hardware backdoor baked into the chipset of the network card fully compromises even the otherwise strongest secure system. Shy away from big name US vendors like Intel (what's in a name?), 3com (now HP) and Broadcom, (formerly HP.) I am not sure if Taiwanese corporations are independent from USA influence. TP-Link is a genuine Chinese brand with no NSA strings attached. Does that guarantee that there is no Chinese backdoor? No, but with USA merchandise it is not only likely but even legallly mandated.

A partial mitigation might be to use only USB attached network interfaces, though you would have to check for yourself if latest versions of USB protocol and hardware implementations thereof could also in some way allow direct system hardware access. My knowledge is a bit rusty in that area. Caveat emptor.

BTW, the same hardware access concerns are potentially present in all smartphones. These devices contain two different computer systems. One that runs iOS or Android or whatever you fancy to hack onto it (if you can), and another, hidden, one that interfaces with the mobile network antenna network. The latter one has access to all of the memory of the first, without the first ever knowing a thing about it. So go on and replace your Android with a super secure homebrew open source OS and encrypt all your application level comms. It won't stop Big Brother from simply reading all they want to see from raw memory through the network attached second system.

Posted by: Lurk | Feb 11 2020 22:29 utc | 21

@DontBelieveEitherPr. #16 and/or c1ue #21

So how good is F-secure these days for VPN?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 11 2020 22:41 utc | 22

Nice opinion poll. But 70% "don't know" should read 68% "haven't been told what to think yet", 2% don't know.

Posted by: Michael Droy | Feb 11 2020 22:52 utc | 23

Joetv #22

Let's not forget Israel, which has backdoored the NSA for years, getting everything before the US agency.
Am I being antisemitic?

Not by any rational person but be careful you are not being anti simitic as you could be accused of boycotting US products: see SIMITIC CP1613 NDIS Adapter.

On the big issue though I cant help seeing Pontious Pompeo as hurling himself about the globe tilting at windmills. He is making the USA a laughing stock, very threatening for sure, but he is a laughing stock and he perfectly sets up the scenario to ridicule his mongrel stupid president.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 11 2020 22:52 utc | 24

The other possible US objection is that Huawei will only let their customers spy, not third countries.

Posted by: Paul Cockshott | Feb 11 2020 21:57 utc | 24

It reminds me a joke about Emperor Napoleon arriving in a town. The population, the notables and the mayor are greeting him, and the Emperor says "No gun salute, hm?". Mayor replies "Sire, we have twenty reasons. Fist, we have canons", "Enough", replied Napoleon.

Isn't the "other possible US objection" exactly "Enough"? Of course, USA is not a mere "third country", USA is the rule maker of rule based international order.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 11 2020 23:04 utc | 25

On the big issue though I cant help seeing Pontious Pompeo as hurling himself about the globe tilting at windmills. He is making the USA a laughing stock, very threatening for sure, but he is a laughing stock and he perfectly sets up the scenario to ridicule his mongrel stupid president.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 11 2020 22:52 utc | 30

Isn't it a good method? This way, the vassals can comply with a smile.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 11 2020 23:08 utc | 26

WSJ NEWS EXCLUSIVE WORLD
U.S. Officials Say Huawei Can Covertly Access Telecom Networks
Trump administration ramps up push for allies to block Chinese company
"The U.S. kept the intelligence highly classified until late last year, when American officials provided details to allies including the U.K. and Germany, according to officials from the three countries."
link
Chief, I demand the cone of silence...

Posted by: Bruce | Feb 11 2020 23:12 utc | 27

As a footnote, I always thought it obvious that the US had sabotaged the (Canadian) BlackBerry phone in 2011, with its servers they couldn't access, and Obama refusing to give his up (because he knew it was secure from the spooks?) Wikipedia:
"In September 2011, the company's BlackBerry Internet Service suffered a massive outage, impacting millions of customers for several days. The outage embarrassingly occurred as Apple prepared to launch the iPhone 4S, causing fears of mass defections from the platform" The company never recovered from that single large event.

Posted by: Third Chimp | Feb 11 2020 23:21 utc | 28

All the whining done by the Outlaw US Empire confirms for me the brilliance of Escobar's "The Siren Call of a System Leader" as it goes about the planet screeching its spiel, then confesses its alliance with Terrorism by "standing with the Turks." It seems the hysteria's building, becoming an octave higher than the day before perhaps in an attempt to mute word of Sanders continuing success by providing a falsetto of junk headlines and bunkum articles.

If I had to choose, I'd go Huawei given its security prowess and against all Western products given their known security failings.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 11 2020 23:24 utc | 29

All products are compromised in one way or another. The days of privacy is gone until we start colonizing Space.


DontBelieveEitherPr. | Feb 11 2020 20:29 utc | 16:

How many clients are you planning to setup on your network? It looks like a PITA to maintain it. Wouldn't it be better to have two networks, one for general use and a sneaker net for sensitive data?

Posted by: Ian2 | Feb 11 2020 23:33 utc | 30

Looks like they spied mostly on embassies of allies.

Posted by: Les | Feb 11 2020 23:44 utc | 31

I'm amazed that Chief Poodle Boris did not obediently obey His Master's Voice.

What is going on?

I could understand if this was DNC/CIA-MI6 passing orders down the line (a la Skripal) to upset Trump but the US Intel Community has no interest in such a snub from the UK Govt.

Obviously this isn't the UK Govt asserting their independence from US instruction because such a thing has never happened in my lifetime.

Wierd.

Anyway, too bad I won't be able to read the thread on my phone tomorrow as Bruce has just broken the thread with his million-character link. :-(

Posted by: Ash Naz | Feb 12 2020 0:20 utc | 32

I'm amazed that Chief Poodle Boris did not obediently obey His Master's Voice.

What is going on?

Posted by: Ash Naz | Feb 12 2020 0:20 utc | 39

However I cringe and the obedient vassals, and Boris who may well be the Chief Poodle, given that exceedingly cute Justin is from another breed, Newtrumplander. But even poodles have privacy concerns, you know? What you web surf, what you buy, whom do you send gifts and WHAT gifts (dominatrix set?). However you trust NSA to use all that info solely for good causes, well, you know, not everyone is an exhibitionist...

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 12 2020 3:11 utc | 33

Dude, didn't IBM (an American company, btw) make crypto for nazi Germany? Pretty sure that's the case on that one. This newer example is a good revelation man, but an intuitive and honest mind could have very well suspected such for a great while now, and with pretty obvious cause.

Posted by: Joshua | Feb 12 2020 3:32 utc | 34


Trump and US has a horrible hand to play regarding Huawei. It's desperation time!

Mike Pence tries to link UK/US trade deal with Trump Huawei ban.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/world/united-states/donald-trump/news/109751/mike-pence-hints-us-uk-trade-deal-risk-because


Among Huawei, Ericsson, Nokia, looks like Nokia's way behind.

https://www.itnews.com.au/news/fearing-huawei-curbs-deutsche-telekom-tells-nokia-to-shape-up-537710

U.S. to review new curbs on Huawei, China in Feb. meeting: sources
(The Commerce Dept is keeping their potential "rules" vague to buy time)

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-huawei-tech-meeting/u-s-to-review-new-curbs-on-huawei-china-in-feb-meeting-sources-idUKKBN1ZZ01H?rpc=401&

Pentagon Cites Supply Chain Sustainability For Opposing Huawei Sanctions

https://wccftech.com/pentagon-huawe-sanctions-supply-chain/


Barr scoffs at White House's anti-Huawei 5G approach
https://www.axios.com/barr-scoffs-at-white-houses-anti-huawei-5g-proposal-e3afb2c2-7f21-4609-a02e-ae3753f514f5.html

To counter Huawei, U.S. could take 'controlling stake' in Ericsson, Nokia: attorney general

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-espionage/to-counter-huawei-u-s-could-take-controlling-stake-in-ericsson-nokia-attorney-general-idUSKBN2001DL

(Jan 2018) Scoop: Trump team considers nationalizing 5G network
https://www.axios.com/trump-team-debates-nationalizing-5g-network-f1e92a49-60f2-4e3e-acd4-f3eb03d910ff.html

I enjoy David Goldman (Spengler) article at Asia Times. He accurately notes the vast lead Huawei/China has and then provides "but we can do something" bromides. What do mean "we", kimosabe?

Posted by: daffyDuct | Feb 12 2020 3:51 utc | 35

Per a quote from Newt Gingrich's book ""Trump vs. China: Facing America’s Greatest Threat", quoted recently by David Goldman. Gingrich didn't say who was the greatest threat, Trump or China.


“It is not China’s fault that in 2017, 89% of Baltimore eighth graders couldn’t pass their math exam…

“It is not China’s fault that too few Americans in K-12 and in college study math and science to fill the graduate schools with future American scientists…

“It is not China’s fault that, faced with a dramatic increase in Chinese graduate students in science, the government has not been able to revive programs like the 1958 National Defense Education Act…

“It is not China’s fault the way our defense bureaucracy functions serves to create exactly the ‘military-industrial complex’ that President Dwight Eisenhower warned about…

“It is not China’s fault that NASA has been so bureaucratic and its funding so erratic that… there is every reason to believe that China is catching up rapidly and may outpace us. This is because of us not because of them…

“It is not China’s fault that the old, bureaucratic, entrenched American telecommunications companies failed to develop a global strategy for 5G over the 11 years that the Chinese company Huawei has been working to become a world leader…”

Posted by: daffyDuct | Feb 12 2020 3:55 utc | 36

I feel less uncomfortable about the possibility of being spied on by the Chinese than I do about the probability of being spied on by the US.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Feb 12 2020 3:59 utc | 37

I believe I already mentioned that I bought my youngest fella a Huawei phone at xmas. He's had assorted top of the line Samsungs but he never really got that much use out of them- his disability causes memory issues plus cognitive problems, but since he has had the Huawei which has a large screen close to 7" he is getting a ton of use out of it. The lack of some amerikan owned apps hasn't been noticed as he chiefly uses a social network for artists which works fine.

The phone wasn't inexpensive, but it was noticeably less pricy than similar other android phones which makes it a lot less than an I-diot phone.
When I talk to other humans most like the idea of buying Huawei because it is one in the eye for the arseholes who had the gall to tell them not to buy Huawei, but they baulk at decision time worried the phone could lack quality.

It doesn't it is as fast as my samsung S-9 and in many ways easier to use.
I dunno if they are still available in amerika, if they are I can say that Huawei still provide inexpensive phones for the less well off in Africa etc, but now they also cover the middle & top of the market as well. No wonder amerikan tech are concerned - not only do Huawei make a great option at a lower price they own the IP for most of what is in their devices.
That means even if apple and google get into 5g tech, Huawei still cop a great earner off royalties.

Posted by: A User | Feb 12 2020 4:30 utc | 38

I believe I already mentioned that I bought my youngest fella a Huawei phone at xmas. He's had assorted top of the line Samsungs but he never really got that much use out of them- his disability causes memory issues plus cognitive problems, but since he has had the Huawei which has a large screen close to 7" he is getting a ton of use out of it. The lack of some amerikan owned apps hasn't been noticed as he chiefly uses a social network for artists which works fine.

The phone wasn't inexpensive, but it was noticeably less pricy than similar other android phones which makes it a lot less than an I-diot phone.
When I talk to other humans most like the idea of buying Huawei because it is one in the eye for the arseholes who had the gall to tell them not to buy Huawei, but they baulk at decision time worried the phone could lack quality.

It doesn't it is as fast as my samsung S-9 and in many ways easier to use.
I dunno if they are still available in amerika, if they are I can say that Huawei still provide inexpensive phones for the less well off in Africa etc, but now they also cover the middle & top of the market as well. No wonder amerikan tech are concerned - not only do Huawei make a great option at a lower price they own the IP for most of what is in their devices.
That means even if apple and google get into 5g tech, Huawei still cop a great earner off royalties.

Posted by: A User | Feb 12 2020 4:30 utc | 39

Thank you b, for providing this 'new' subject in a thought provoking analysis that, as karlof1 says at 29 connects with Pepe Escobar's image laden essay - to me it is as if the recognition of technologies insecurities is a valuable lesson in so many ways, that the world is learning its pitfalls.

No longer do we think that it is possible, for instance, to really have artificial intelligence exceeding the capacity of humans to be human. Or to have self driving cars - what insanity is that?

If everyone listens to the little boy and realizes that the emperor has no clothes...he's no longer the emperor but a silly fat man who clearly doesn't keep his body in shape! That's technology, and it shouldn't have power over people's ability to be truly human!

There's a pbs program on an incomplete novel by Jane Austen I was watching, with a bit of analysis after it, and I am alarmed at that analysis. She writes, said the director, about sex and money. Sex and money! Not love between human beings - no - sex and money (he says with a knowing smile).

Maybe so, you're the director, sir. Maybe that's all you are giving us with your expertise. Okay, but. It's not enough! Technology is very very clever; and it is very very inhuman. It's part of that siren complex, and we are all immersed in it, even, and especially, in shows meant to entertain. But I think folk are learning: this siren instrument can lie, cheat, steal. It's not enough!

That is good to know. And we do already know it. I won't see it, but the future is almost here.

Posted by: juliania | Feb 12 2020 5:15 utc | 40

The Magna Carta (Forest Charter) was signed by King William & Queen Mary at sword point, 1215 or thereabouts. Thomas Jefferson set up William & Mary College for learning "the law". Passing the BAR in England is/was at the Inns of Courts, Jefferson "argued" cases there. He had to erase "Subjects" and put "Citizens" in the U.S. Constitution. The Balfour Decision (see "Bible & Sword", Barbara Tuchman) was to arrange this time in history, too. The worst of our species are not evolving.
Love your blog MOA

Posted by: Biloximarxkelly | Feb 12 2020 6:08 utc | 41

Here is another Orwellian irony that has been forgotten down the MemoryHole.

Way back in 2014, Edward Snowden revealed that the Americans (and the NSA in particular) were spying on Huawei dating back to at least 2007.

This American spying occurred before the current national security hysterics about Huawei, indeed, before most people in the USA had even heard of the company itself.

As this article states,

"In the final analysis, the NSA spying campaign against Huawei has two fundamental purposes. First, Huawei (unlike the American telecommunications companies) does not allow the NSA free access to its infrastructure to conduct spying on its products’ users. Accordingly, as part of its mission of spying on the entire world’s population, the NSA hacked into Huawei’s systems in order to gather information traveling through its infrastructure.

Second, the spying campaign against Huawei is part of broader efforts to protect the profits and interests of American telecommunications companies at the expense of Huawei. This is the purpose of the NSA’s particular interest in Huawei’s executives and their 'leadership plans and intentions.'”

Edward Snowden exposes NSA spying against Chinese telecom firm Huawei
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/24/huaw-m24.html?view=print

Posted by: ak74 | Feb 12 2020 6:09 utc | 42

Posted by: juliania | Feb 12 2020 5:15 utc | 39
(Artificial Intelligence)

The trouble with Artificial Intelligence is that it's not intelligent.
And it's not intelligent because it's got no experience, no imagination and no self-control.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 12 2020 6:36 utc | 43

>> The trouble with Artificial Intelligence is that it's not intelligent.
>> And it's not intelligent because it's got no experience, no imagination and no self-control.

That’s funny. We robots say the same thing about you meat bags.

Posted by: bender | Feb 12 2020 8:09 utc | 44

IMO, The biggest problem with so called 'artificial intelligence' is the way it makes 'artificial unintelligence' ubiquitous and entirely impossible to avoid. The classic example is the self scanner at the supermarket that just will not be quiet.

There is much worse than that eg one of my younger offspring has just finished his/her doctorate & is applying for graduate research positions in a particular nation's public service.
In the post 9/11 paranoia which exists across the whitefella world, he/she has been told he/she must pass a security clearance before he/she will be considered for appointment. Fine except that this requirement was introduced without warning, on the fly and the average time a 'security clearance' from go to whoa is 20 months. That time has passed for my kid, the intelligence agency which does these clearances made a major error and some parts of the clearance have to be re-started. No problem shit happens etc.
Except my son/daughter called me a few days ago to say 'the system' appeared to be choking on some of 'MY' personal details.

After a few minutes of "Why the hell did you bring me into it, I told you to leave my space blank - unknown - for your sake not mine" etc etc, the kid said he/she had but outta the blue the online site where he/she fills out details of his/her life brought my name up. Puzzling; as altho I lived in that country a few years, I never had any problems with authority - I thought.

As far as I can tell that government's recruitment agency has no legal or legislative basis for these queries, but unless the kid answers the questions (they must be truthful otherwise perjury) the kid cannot begin to turn the wheels for a security clearance. It is impossible to talk to a human being the organisation is locked down by the usual voicemail, go online/try our txt app avoidance.

This means the government can go well outside the bounds of what is fair & reasonable, and there is not anything, anyone can do about it. Playing along by answering queries 'the system' has no right to be asking, may get one the job, but not playing along bars you from the gig for ever.
I know that this will not be the only such instance, I imagine that unconstitutional, illegal rorts such as this will be SOP everywhere, yet we allow it. The kids because they know no better, the oldfellas because the no longer care.

Posted by: A User | Feb 12 2020 8:18 utc | 45

The other possible US objection is that Huawei will only let their customers spy, not third countries.
Posted by: Paul Cockshott | Feb 11 2020 21:57 utc | 20

So it seems. In the words of Ren Zhengfei 'When we transfer the tech, they can modify code on top of my tech, once that’s through, it’s not only shielded from me, it’s shielded from everyone else in the world… US 5G will be their own thing, there’s no security concern, the only concern will be the U.S. keeping American companies (which bought it) in check.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUUwK3DxGlA&feature=youtu.be

Posted by: md | Feb 12 2020 8:29 utc | 46

China is under bioweapon attack ...........

Listen carefully about this video posted in June 18, 2010 (ten years ago).

The Anglo-Saxon Mission [This version with English subtiltes]

Posted by: KenTX | Feb 12 2020 8:40 utc | 47

Thanks for the narrative your article is excellent one more piece of the puzzle. follows.
US, German spies plundered global secrets via Swiss encryption firm:
Report Names names of companies involved.
If the link does not work just url to presstv.com for the article.

One more example of how Mobsters are using the nation state as a platform to conduct their controlled, targeted and authenticated access to, every human in the world. The people are contained within one of the nation state franchises, each a part of the 20 6 nation state system franchises that divides 206 people into separate, but not independent containers under one organized and coordinated roof. The nation state system has prevented the humanity across the globe from becoming democratic. No matter the innocence of the nation state platform, it is the franchised nature of the organization [the nation state system] to which each individual nation state belongs and is a part of, that provides the mobsters with an efficient platform from which to conduct their crimes against humanity and to impose their mind control technologies. .

Posted by: snake | Feb 12 2020 8:56 utc | 48

I'm amazed that Chief Poodle Boris did not obediently obey His Master's Voice.

Posted by: Ash Naz | Feb 12 2020 0:20 utc | 32

The reason is said to be that they've already bought and installed a lot of the Huawei equipment, and the new decision is just a fake, to justify the position.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/28/huawei-security-boris-johnson

Posted by: Laguerre | Feb 12 2020 9:23 utc | 49

Advocates of the Free Market like to pretend that there is a clear distinction between the workings of government and the workings of corporations and individuals. But they are deeply and inexorably interlinked and there can be no study of economics without politics and no study of politics without economics.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Feb 12 2020 11:54 utc | 50

@43 A User

It's safe to assume this sort of thing has been going on for a long time. Even before computers made everything that much harder.

The BBC operated a system where a Christmas tree was used as a marker. If you had this on your file, you were going nowhere.

BBC Political Vetting

Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Feb 12 2020 12:48 utc | 51

@Laguerre:

The reason is said to be that they've already bought and installed a lot of the Huawei equipment, and the new decision is just a fake, to justify the position.

The financial angle makes sense, but what is the price of disobedience?

@Piotr Berman:

But even poodles have privacy concerns

The preventing blackmail angle makes sense too

And how useful to be able to use blackmail to get allies to jump when ordered? It’s often said that Washington has no real friends, just obedient vassals.

Posted by: Ash Naz | Feb 12 2020 13:17 utc | 52

re Mike R and Ian2. First thanks for link info to great article.

"David P. Goldman is the columnist “Spengler” for Asia Times Online"

https://pjmedia.com/spengler/

Posted by: erichwwk | Feb 12 2020 13:51 utc | 53

Ash Naz|Feb 12 2020 0:20 utc|32 & Posted by: Laguerre|Feb 12 2020 9:23 utc|47

It would appear to me that the UK, by allowing Huawei (limited) access to their market, are achieving several advantageous outcomes.

1) They are preventing potential for a duopoly of Eriksson & Nokia on the hardware by allowing a third player into the market.
2) By only allowing a maximum of 35% of the market share, they prevent Huawei from quickly out-competing the others on price and capturing a monopoly.
3) They are only allowing access to the network comm's market, and not the core of the system, which may or may not protect against unwanted data capture and intrusion (by exactly whom remains the question - as per the article above).
4) It allows the four main network providers (especially EE, owned by BT) and the accompanying state surveillance apparatus the ability to familiarise themselves with Huawei tech/code/vulnerabilities which may be invaluable going forward. On this point alone, the USA (and Australia, among others) are doing themselves a great disservice by missing out on a learning experience from arguably the world leader in this technology.

As md|Feb 12 2020 8:29 utc|44 alluded to, they are claiming to allow clintele access to all code (and the freedom to modify it as desired). So denying them access to a particular market only hinders the technical understanding of the technology and its implementation, leaving such states behind.

The USA (and its' vassal client states) once again shoot themselves in the foot in a vain attempt to create and re-create the archetypal "boogeyman" for the populace to wring their hands over and keep them up at night. Fools.

Ps. Thank you B for another illuminating read.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Feb 12 2020 14:50 utc | 54

The Huawei equipment will have NSA monitors installed before they're installed. They made a point of boasting about that process some 15 years ago. The US companies are using the issue because they're behind Huawei.

Posted by: Les | Feb 12 2020 15:25 utc | 55

BraveNewWorld | Feb 11 2020 19:01 utc | 2

Brave New World or keeps getting braver. Seems like Likud just let's it all hang out.. Lot of desperation going on in Israel it seems..

So I was reading a local mil.news site that pretends to be a naturalized debkafile styled operation (you ppl get the innuendo I hope) but in greek, that had a copy of that Jeff Bezos owned W.P. February 11th article, about this Crypto AG company and at the end had some innuendoes about possible hidden archives and what-iff's theories alledging to possible future leaks for the country's troubled political past, but I barely had time to finish dissecting a local video blog's latest installment on trying to make an analyses of CIA's "Crypto" statue displayed at their HQs public yard. Well that guy too smell like a Black Cube Intelligence (the proTrump ex-Mossad City of London HQ org) limited hangout psyop operation, normalised for local audience. That vblog op reportedly was fired up after an very weathered out Mossad Apache type mil helicopter, with quadruple fuel tanks welded under its weapon pylons was seen making rounds and touching down around southwestern Mnt. Olympus area plus guys that were doing measurements, did they have some GAMMA RAY spectrometers with them, I am not sure what I heard.. That bird DID seem like it had travelled like a LOT, like in harsh desert envornment, like Saudi, Lybia, and why not... even Syria maybe? Then I remembered it was just before an unchecked fire claimed 100 dead, next to what used to be an abandoned US Navy/ Air Force cluster of bases, that local rumor had it when they were operational they tested stuff like 300xlightspeed fast particles network communications back in 1977 to 1991. Area-52 Utah weirdness started happening all around "Marathon" valley, "Vrillisia" prefecture and "Pentelli" mountain.

Well since Bezos likes democracies and is our friend, maybe he can obtain what his newspaper as hidden caches of secrets.

I would do a request of that godamn israeli team of 200 servicemen that landed at Eleusis (don't you love those godamn ancient greek names, such godamn eye openers for those seeking humanity's godamn lost knowledge) at evening of April 20 1967. A day before the coup. The greek military coup that brought forth the military junta.
Yeah that and the riles of project "Operation PROMETHEUS". What is a godamn operation Prometheus by an unauthorized Israeli army doing in my godamn country while people fighting for democracy were being detained, tortured and killed? And don't give me any it was the CIA crap. CIA ain' t jewish (well at least at its largest part ...I think)
Godamn it!

Posted by: Qparticle | Feb 12 2020 15:35 utc | 56

To me, the real question is "why 5G"? No human can talk or type fast enough to need more bandwidth for text or phone.

I finally got an answer which makes sense, from a tech-savvy friend: 5G isn't for us (humans), it's for the Internet Of Things (IoT). Which - to me - is an even better argument to avoid 5G. IMO, running control systems through the internet is stupid & dangerous. Spying is a relatively benign problem; and I'm not even really that worried about hacking (who's gonna hack my dishwasher? why?). To me, the real problems are (1) proliferation of pathways for failure ("cloud"-burst!), (2) stupid interfaces (dials & buttons are better than Apps), and worst (3) increased Corporate control (software licensing fees, forced upgrades, right-to-repair, etc).

So, Huawei, whoever, whatever, I say screw 'em all, screw the IoT, screw 5G. Sell me simple Things with local controls which won't stop working when somebody plugs (or unplugs) something somewhere else.


OTOH, yeah, it's time for another Church Commission - with bigger teeth - to get the CIA back (?) under control. Review Financial Assets as well as covert atrocities. But, uh, good luck with that.

Posted by: elkern | Feb 12 2020 16:32 utc | 57

@uncle tungsten #22
The thing to keep in mind with VPN is that it addresses one of 3 security areas (concerning data): Data in Transit. The only thing VPN does is make it difficult for someone to sample your internet traffic bits to see what's in them.
Data at Rest and Data at Work are not affected. For example, if you use a VPN to connect to MoA - no one along the path can see what you're doing, but your browser knows; your computer knows; your internet router knows; MoA knows; MoA's hosting provider knows.
As for F-Secure and its VPN:
Pluses: they haven't had a breach or serious security flaw that I can recall.
Minuses: expensive. They keep logs. No Netflix or torrenting. Not a very good worldwide network (water hole issue).

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 12 2020 17:40 utc | 58

On its surface it seems non-sensible to call out someone from doing what you do. However, it serves the purpose of promoting the illusion China and US are on different sides . Its fake wrestling promotion. Working together to spy on you. When caught, they point the finger at the other guy or claim they need to do it to protect you from them. Don't trust the US? Buy Huawei, and not only are you not protected but you get special attention for buying Huawei in a futile attempt for privacy from US prying eyes (but opening your curtain to give China a peak). Carry on.

Posted by: Pft | Feb 12 2020 19:09 utc | 59

Pft, you got any evidence to back up your statement that China is having a peak?
There is considerable evidence that the US is but I have yet to see any that implicates Huawei or China.

Posted by: arby | Feb 12 2020 19:15 utc | 60

arby @60

What I find quite humorous is that the individuals claiming that the empire's adversaries are playing a part in the empire's efforts to deceive its domestic population are also often the same ones who will argue that the failure of Assange to publish evidence of those adversaries' evil-doing is proof that Assange works for those adversaries.

China and America are secretly one and the same cabal working to deceive both country's populations, BUT we only have proof of deceit on America's side because the whistle blowers and leakers all secretly work for China.

Logical? It might look that way if you don't think too deeply about it.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 12 2020 19:34 utc | 61

I forgot to add: something like 0.6% of Internet traffic, ditto emails, are non-standard encrypted: i.e. VPN or PGP. So using these services primarily just highlights you for the surveillance people as a "person of interest".

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 12 2020 21:06 utc | 62

In Switzerland we're experiencing an enourmous outrage regarding the Crypto AG company. Even tough Swiss MSM and Alt-Media revealed the foul play of the company in the past, the public outcry is astonishing. Politicians are now demanding to form a Parliamentary Investigation Commission. This timely set trans-atlantic coordination of WaPo, German ZDF and Swiss National TV SRF is more than odd. Is it really about Huawei and how does Switzerland fit in this circumstance? Could the clever readership of this fantastic site enlighten me?

Posted by: Esteban | Feb 12 2020 21:14 utc | 63

Ian2 | Feb 11 2020 19:56 utc | 8

I think this is what you need.

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/07/article/us-china-tech-war-and-the-us-intelligence-community/

Posted by: foolisholdman | Feb 12 2020 22:50 utc | 64

To me, the real question is "why 5G"? No human can talk or type fast enough to need more bandwidth for text or phone.
...
Posted by: elkern | Feb 12 2020 16:32 utc | 57

Good question + logical speculation.

The major telcos in Oz, Telstra & Optus, are delightfully vague about the benefits of 5G in their ongoing deluge of TV ads. The ads are childish and juvenile and attempt to create the impression that 5G is 'exciting' and will make you feel delighted/happy.

The only tangible 5G benefit I'm aware of is that a consumer will be able to download a feature-length movie into his/her Samsung Tablet in circa 3 seconds. Imo the number of people who will die if they can't download a movie in fewer than 5 seconds is probably a very small niche market.
(According to my TV hard drive video 'Remaining Space' log, a 2 hour TV movie contains 5000Mb of data +/- 2000Mb - depending on image complexity(?)).

I'm curious to discover what all this hi-speed computational/ data-transfer 'headroom' is doing inside the customer's device when the user isn't using it?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 13 2020 2:05 utc | 65

5G is about being able to create better coverage and jack up total bandwidth (to add more customers, add more stuff with which to charge customers [technology will be implanted into more and more things and you won't be able to work stuff without it having to "communicate" over the network [and be controlled]).

Posted by: Seer | Feb 13 2020 5:16 utc | 66

off … Circassian, of course

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 13 2020 11:50 utc | 67

You technophobes!
You already live in a world immersed in a 5G.
Earth+Fire+Air+Water (plus the Aether) = 5.
Think platonic solids. Think the tesseract as a reference grid and aether as the imagined element responsible for transmitting the information. God's internet.
So here we are.

So leaking the evil evil CIA's stuff with the evil evil Germans stuff (because according to the Mossad, Germany was and always will be evil because ..hitler, no questions asked because Mossad says so) and that evil bunch is cooperating with evil Chinese (and China is also evil because Trump said so, no questions asked because Trump is God King Emperor, because Mossad said so) and God King Emperor Trump decreed that only core technologies and code developed by the Mossad will have a place in a future 5G global grid.

Let Mossad be God (it rhymes)
God knows they tried so hard developing that Qannon Bannon whatevers...

Posted by: Qparticle | Feb 13 2020 16:49 utc | 68

"The warmed up Crypto AG story is a subtle smear piece against Huawei and Kapersky."

I never bought into the alleged "scandal" around Kaspersky. The whole thing was based on the fact that their software did exactly what it was supposed to do - exfiltrate suspected spyware from a customer's machine up to their servers for analysis. The fact that the "customer" was a US government intelligence agent who was dumb enough to run the software on a machine he was - illegally - using at home to develop spyware was the US' fault, not Kaspersky's.

Very few people in the infosec community have ever been concerned about Kaspersky being a Russian intelligence asset as no one was ever known to be compromised by running their software. I've used their software for clients in the past, and while it wasn't great from a user friendliness view, it always had one of the best malware detection rates among all such software.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 13 2020 19:39 utc | 69

@65 "I'm curious to discover what all this hi-speed computational/ data-transfer 'headroom' is doing inside the customer's device when the user isn't using it?"

Mostly remaining idle. Check your process manager. Ninety nine percent of all processes running on a computer are idle ninety nine percent of the time.

But when you want something to *move*, you need as much power as you can get. Such as running the crappy Internet browsers like Firefox that suck up most of your memory to handle all the ad servers connected to every Web page you download... Especially when the average idiot Internet user leaves fifty tabs open in their browser...

Or running the latest video games which can stress out even a high-end Intel i7 or AMD Ryzen 7 - which is why AMD and Intel are introducing 16- and 32-core processors that cost $1,000 or more - for those people who just have to run the latest games. Or people like me who need to run Windows and various security-oriented Linux distros on top of Linux in virtual machines for computer security work.

Work expands to fill the power available. That's been true since forever and always will be.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 13 2020 19:50 utc | 70

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