Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 23, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-14

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

Related:
Putin keen to cool Turkish hawk down - Pepe Escobar

An hour ago the Russian air force bombed a convoy of Jihadis and Turkish soldiers near Jabal al Zawiyah. Syrian artillery fired on another Turkish convoy. There were Turkish casualties in both incidents. Erdogan can do nothing about it except to order his troops to retreat.

Related:
Intelligence Sources: All Candidates Are Russian Agents But Pete Buttigieg - Caitlin Johnstone
National Security Experts Dismiss ‘Hysteria Over Russia’ Allegedly Supporting Bernie Sanders Law and Crime

“One of the best ways to undermine American democracy is for the media to constantly tell Americans that our democratic system is run by a foreign power, that polls [and] debate outcomes are based not on the appeal of our politicians but from the invisible hand of an enemy government,” explained Northeastern University Associate Professor and Quincy Institute Fellow Max Abrahms.

Other issues:

Long reads on the changing global role of the U.S. of A.:

America in Distress: The Challenges of Disadvantageous Change - Chas Freeman
Trump’s Vanished ‘Liberal Middles’ - Alastair Crooke

Netanyahoo asks Al Thani to finance Hamas:

Mossad Chief Visited Doha, Urged Qataris to Continue Gaza Financial Aid - Haaretz

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on February 23, 2020 at 14:19 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Jackrabbit @398

Thank you.

You know, you are very hard work. You should be a politician - totally for "self-serving" reasons, of course! :)

Posted by: ADKC | Feb 26 2020 0:59 utc | 401

Very rare and interesting article about the Canadian economy:

Canada and the crisis of capitalism

Posted by: vk | Feb 26 2020 2:01 utc | 403

ADKC @ 400

You may be "finished with this thread". I am just beginning.

I have no objection to your substantive argument with Jackrabbit as to Bernie's motivations in the Civil Rights movement. My objection to what you write has nothing to do with Bernie, and everything to do with your attempt to redline certain common words.

This tactic has been used for so many words pertaining to Israel that I have lost count. First of all, "Zionist" is verboten, despite the fact that there is a "World Zionist Organization". I am not allowed to say "Likudnik" or "settler". Boycotts of Israel are criminalized in several states in this country. I find your attempt to browbeat this board regarding word choice to be more of the same.

That is, I object to your constant assertion that common phraseology is "anti-Semitic". It smells like the same tactic that changed "Its all about the Benjamins" from ghetto slang into "anti-Semitism.

And you continue with the anti-Semitism by saying that because Sanders is Jewish that is reason to suspect that he is pro-EMPIRE (and you mean by this, not that Sanders is pro-American, but that he is a supporter of the American Empire – its wars and its exploitation of other countries).

So, you are saying that the use of the word "empire" to describe America is anti-Semitic? You must be joking. The facts are clear. It is well known that Bernie's foreign policy is his weakest suit. Now you claim that pointing that out is off limits.

I said that “The idea that "Zionism" is Empire, that Israel/Jews control the US Empire is anti-Semitic”. You said @344 that; “ "Zionism" has become synonymous with support for Empire. Obviously because Israel is a parasite on the Empire - it needs a strong Empire to thrive.” This is effectively the same statement and is anti-Semitic. Your statement is worse because of the use of the word “parasite” - another anti-Semitic trope.

Parasite is "anti-Semitic"? Who knew that the Chinese Communists were anti-Semitic, because that was one of the main slams on capitalism in the Mao era. The Three Stooges used the word. Were they anti-Semitic? This assertion is similar to the attempt to label word "banker" as Anti-semitic. That would make every single crook on Wall St. untouchable. Nobody accepted that demand.

Your introduction of Christianity is just tiresome whataboutery. The context was your pushing of Jewish involvement as being “self-serving”. Presumably, you're trying to advance non-involvement by white non-Jews as also being “self-serving”.

You go on to say "...then you'll have to explain why white Christians failed to act on a similar, strongly-held religious belief.” But, I don’t because I never made any claim about white American Christian people as a whole.

It is not whataboutery. The argument is about the disproportionate size of the Jewish contingent, which just maybe had to do with the fact that they were, at the time, also the victim of deep discrimination just like the blacks. The fact that you didn't mention that historical context does not mean that it is not germane.

In summary, defend Bernie all you want. Just don't send the English language to the Gulag to do it. You are well on the way to being double-plus ungood.

Posted by: john brewster | Feb 26 2020 2:05 utc | 404

When Sanders didn't get the nomination in 2016 I was disappointed but not discouraged.

I was enthusiastic about the new organisation "Our Revolution" but disillusionment set in when (as I recall) Jeff weaver became the President of "Our Revolution" and the democratic elements of members being able to vote on for leaders and policy was eschewed. I remember quite a bit of upset about this.

As chance would have it the UK had a similar organisation "Momentum" which attempted to co-opt all the new members who joined Labour to support Corbyn, and which appeared to adhere to democratic principals.

However, I cannot convey to you how much of a joke "Momentum" really is. "Momentum" has really become little more than a sock-puppet for Jon Lansman, the policy determination is really like being spoonfed ridiculous options (e.g. do you want to build 1,000, 10,000 or 100,000? Guess what, "Momentum" members voted for 100,000 houses).

The real horror was the way in which Lansman got rid of other influential people within "Momentum" leaving only an organisation hollowed out and effectively consisting of only one person (Lansman). The truth of "Momentum" impudence-y will be revealed when Starmer (Blair's choice) overwhelmingly wins the Labour leadership. "Lansman/Momentum" supported all the anti-Semitic expulsions and only opposed those few (and insignificant) expulsions that where personal friends of Lansman (as one disgruntled activist responded to Lansman "it's too late now!"). A huge part of Corbyn's failure as Leader is down to "Lansman/Momentum". The only thing "Momentum" achieved was a seat on the NEC for Lansman. "Lansman/Momentum" should have supported Livingstone and, in particular, Chris Williams (who should have been the next leader of the Labour Party, but, as far as I could see, Lansman got his rocks off expelling better people than himself for anti-Semitism. The only person he would support Corbyn but this just left Corbyn isolated.

So that's what could have been for "Our Revolution" but how did it turn out. In reality, a whole lot better. Jeff Weaver was replaced by Nina Turner who appears to have been much more inspiring leader and, although, I don't believe "Our Revolution" has adopted the democratic approach desired by those who were initially disappointed back when Jeff Weaver was in charge I do believe that "Our Revolution" under Nina Turner has produced a manifesto/platform that will outlast Sanders.

The "Our Revolution" platform consists of just six points most of which need no elaboration:

1. Medicare4All

2. Green New Deal

3. Good Jobs For All

4. Cancel Student Debt

5. Immigrant Rights (moratorium on deportations, humane policies for asylum seekers)

6. Criminal Justice Reform (against the excessive level of incarcerations and profiteering on prisoners)

7. Stop Endless Wars

In contrast "Lansman/Momentum" stands for nothing of any meaning.

Americans shouldn't vote for Sanders, they should vote for the platform.

Posted by: ADKC | Feb 26 2020 2:09 utc | 405

I'm watching the debate! It is impossible that Bloomberg got cheers from that audience and Bernie got booed for stating that Bloomberg's supporters are billionaires. Bloomberg had a Freudian slip while bragging about having financed Democratic candidates for Congress and at one point he almost said BOUGHT candidates. He started to say bough....and left out the T. That's exactly what he does as a Ziofascist; he buys candidates! As a matter of fact...

Bloomberg must have paid people to fill seats in that audience because I cannot believe progressives, which is where the Party is heading cheered Bloomberg and booed Sanders. It stretches credulity!
The fix is in that audience. Lots of Neoliberals and Conservative Democrats IN THAT AUDIENCE. THE DNC RIGGED THAT AUDIENCE AGAINST BERNIE SANDERS.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 2:12 utc | 406

The worst thing about this debate so far is that the audience is SKEWED in Bloomberg's favor and against Bernie. It is so obvious, it's effing ridiculous!

And one more thing, every commercial break is an extended Bloomberg ad!!!

Bloomberg bought everything.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 2:22 utc | 407

Bloomberg got a foreign policy question and fcked up royally! He's a TOTAL WAR HAWK.

Buttigieg stuck up for his CIA buddies, stating that intelligence should be used more abroad.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 2:29 utc | 408

"Bernie is for elevating all black people to full equality and justice and lifting people out of poverty and despair." has to be one of the most patronising statements made at MoA this year, although it does provide a much needed insight into circe's thinking and how it is she likes to elevate some human being into a god. That take on politicians is exactly how the world got into this mess..
Politicians are not our betters to be unquestioningly lauded no matter what they do just because they are bernie sanders or whoever. They aren't our 'betters', they are our servants, put into a job by people to implement those tasks which they undertook to implement to the citizens before they were elected.
The fact that this almost never happens anymore because pols worry about whether they can 'win' next time is the primary reason nothing happens.

I spent a large portion of my life providing information and services to indigenous people - so called minorities, and I can say with certainty if I had ever approached a task with the mindset that I was lifting people up I would never have got anything done and would have been told my presence was surplus to requirements early on.

People advance themselves, no other human or agency does it for them, all those who wish to assist can do is provide information and services when requested. This can get difficult particularly when assisting cultures who loath that gossipy way whitefellas use to put another down, because instead of throwing shade on some greedheaded land-grabber by telling tribal leadership someone is a greedheaded landgrabber , the clan leadership will see it as the gossip throwing shade upon him/herself, by indulging in unproven prattle not taking another human as he/she comes.

The solution is to create a situation where the greedhead outs him/her self to the leadership. Not difficult.
I have been in meetings with racist creeps from other organisations, who make a point of saying out loud "talk to the tribe - not the advisor" blah blah. I smile quietly inside cos the idjit public servant has just made strike one. The mob know me which was why I got invited to the meeting. So realising I cannot say much anymore that will be listened to by the whitefellas, a couple of the elders raise the issues which they asked me to raise - most normally because of language difficulties. Immediately the whitefellas are in a much worse situation because they can no longer simply rebut what is being said without causing great offence.

I have never been more than an objector/supporter of african american civil rights but I imagine the issue is very similar in that african amerikans devise the strategy and steer the ship so to speak, making any talk of a whitefella 'lifting people up' offensive in the extreme.

Reminds me of that tosspot Sacha Baron-Cohen and the negative backlash he generated in england when it became known Baron-Cohen's Cambridge dissertation on the US civil rights movement of the early 1960's & Baron-Cohen argued that it was jews who lead the movement from 'behind the scenes'. If you google it now 20 years after "Ali G" media releases on the dissertation talk of a 'partnership' between jews and african americans which is nearly as offensive.
If Sanders describes the role of himself or other jews in african american civil rights as anything more than 'supportive', he can kiss South Carolina adieu.

Posted by: A User | Feb 26 2020 2:36 utc | 409

ADKC @400

I think the difficulty is that you're confusing individual and group behavior. "Self-serving" is a pejorative for individual behavior. When groups are "self-serving" we say that they are "promoting their interests".

I'm not charging Sanders with being "self-serving" I'm saying that as a group, Jews had an interest in Civil Rights. Individual Jews that were active in Civil Rights were not "self-serving" - they were serving the Jewish community as well as the larger human community.

I'm glad that they did so. They deserve kudos for that.

I also support Bernie's insurgency. My concern is that he's already giving up advantages that could help him to push further. Why would he tie his own hands?

Some say he's "playing the game". But that makes no sense because we're told that Bernie is an "authentic" progressive. The real deal.

IMO that disconnect is deserving of further investigation.

<> <> <> <>

I reject your accusations of antisemitism. You really seem to be stretching to make that stick.

There are many Jews that don't support the Empire and many that don't support Israel. But there's no question that the vast majority of American Jews are supportive of Israel and the US establishment is strongly pro-MIC/Empire and pro-Israel. In fact, it seems clear that it's difficult to be in politics and advance in politics without supporting Empire and Israel (Note: the two are deliberately conflated by the establishment - that's not something that originated with me). So to think that Bernie may be tainted by Zionism or Empire imperatives is not antisemitic. It's a logical concern.

Biden is a Christian who has professed to be a Zionist. And, AFAIK no candidate in the race would stop the Empire-building madness that chiefly benefits MIC, US international corporations, and Israel. They pass the Zionist litmus test.

<> <> <> <> <> <>

My point about Christian teachings is simple logic. I might also have asked why Jews - if they are so much more spiritual and altruistic - allow Israel to act so terribly toward Palestinians.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 26 2020 2:42 utc | 410

karlof1 @ 399 said in part;" In other words, if the Establishment players support a candidate, that candidate will NOT work to advance the interests of the 99%; that candidate will work to advance the 1% which is always at the expense of the 99%. The formula is that simple and overt. I cited the following observation by Dr. Hudson and I do so again to prove that only Sanders has the interests of the 99% in his heart as the others all sided with the Establishment:"

Another bottom line truth, good post...

Posted by: ben | Feb 26 2020 2:54 utc | 411

Buttigieg just stated he stands with the people of Idlib, and U.S. should be involved in changing the balance of power in the region. IOW, Buttigieg just stated he's an interventionist FOR REGIME CHANGE.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 2:54 utc | 412

The Saudi monkeys are being routed by the Houthi's so the yanks are going to put an extra squeeze on the starvation blockade.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-security-aid/donors-aid-groups-planning-to-suspend-yemen-aid-to-houthi-areas-u-s-official-idUSKBN20J2RS?il=0
“Each donor and implementer is drawing up plans on how to, what to do if the Houthis do not change their behavior on the ground,” the official said. “The plans involve suspending a lot of assistance programs with exceptions for truly lifesaving programs feeding sick children and things like that.”

"Aid agencies have for the past year publicly and privately complained of worsening operating conditions, lack of travel permits and other access restrictions.

“It can’t be tolerated anymore,” the State Department official said.

The U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), a major donor, said it was extremely concerned that the Houthis had worsened the effects of the crisis by interfering in aid operations."

“Everyone’s looking at a timeline of a month or two. ... That’s the point at which different implementers will start to suspend some of the programs,” the official said.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 26 2020 3:01 utc | 413

john brewster @405

I never said that the use of the word "Zionist" is forbidden. I said that there are many different interpretations of the word and as such, it was a meaningless but damaging allegation to make against Sanders. So straight away, far from insisting on one interpretation on the word "Zionist" - I say quite the reverse; the word has several interpretations (and these interpretations range from the benign to the malign.)

I wasn't browbeating the board I was browbeating Jackrabbit and Jackrabbit doesn't hold back from browbeating either. I am now browbeating you.

Describing Jews as “self-serving” is not common or benign phraseology – it is an anti-semitic trope.

I never said that the use of the word "Empire" to describe America was anti-Semitic. However, the use of the word Empire does not describe America, rather it describes the undeclared American Empire – but, this is also not anti-Semitic. However, it was Jackrabbit who said that the mere reason that Sanders is Jewish is reason to suspect that he is pro-EMPIRE and that is anti-Semitic.

I have in much older posts expressed the view that Sanders is weak on foreign policy - I never said or implied that this was "off-limits". That's just your fevered imagination.

The use of the word "parasite" in context as "...because Israel is a parasite on the Empire..." is anti-Semitic.

The argument isn't really "about the disproportionate size of the Jewish contingent" that's just something that Jackrabbit is using to justify his position that the Jews were involved in Civil Rights for "self-serving reasons". I conceded that it was likely that there were a disproportionate number of Jews (amongst the white students) but did not accept that it was as overwhelming as Jackrabbit believed, and gave reasons for this disproportionate involvement. I also said that I thought the Jewish Religious Group that Jackrabbit was relying on was bigging-up (exaggerating) their role. Regardless, I don’t agree that Sanders involvement in Civil Rights and student political activism should be dismissed as being the actions of a "self-serving Jew”.

I don't accept that "at the time, also the victim of deep discrimination just like the blacks". Jews as a group were comparatively wealthy and did not experience anything like the discrimination experienced by Afro-Americans. The white students that were involved in Civil Rights and student political activities were not particularly poor and the Wiki page on the Missippi Summer Project describes the student volunteers from North as being usually rich and 90% white.

Posted by: ADKC | Feb 26 2020 4:02 utc | 414

I don't think there was a clear winner in the debate tonight. Some are saying that that means that Bernie won by default (as he's now considered the "front-runner"). But Biden is ahead in the South Carolina polls - so does that make Biden the winner?

Anyway, I think the debate was poorly run and that hurt Bernie.

Bernie also doesn't pander as much as the other candidates and doesn't prepare entertaining quips like some of the others. IMO lacking that 'flash' translates into a less memorable presence.

And Bernie's policy items aren't easy to fit in a sound bite. I think many viewers would be hard-pressed to describe how Bernie's policies differ from the other candidates. All the candidates talk about economic fairness and improving healthcare.

Bernie has to do a better job of differentiating himself.

As "front-runner" with a historic agenda, he should OWN that stage. Contrasting his agenda with establishment control of the Democratic Party would help a lot. But Bernie can't/won't do that except as an aside or off-hand remark.

Bernie was hit again with the cost of his programs. He needs to have a ready and easily understandable answer to that. IMO he doesn't have it (yet).

There's a concerted push to portray Bernie as unrealistic, unelectable, and thus a risky choice. And post-debate media is striking those themes repeatedly.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 26 2020 4:47 utc | 415

Bernie didn’t look good tonight. Between the rent a crowd cheering for the Establishment hacks, people talking over each other and campaign commercials that try to seem like its part of the debate it doesn’t play well for the American consumer class...

I don’t think anyone will but a few of these folks need to drop out to even see if there is an appearance of a presidential campaign from any of them. They are just throwing money at scripted talking points and laugh track style cheering made to pander to low info people.

Posted by: Phresh | Feb 26 2020 5:08 utc | 416

ADKC @418:

You have deliberately misconstrued my comments to smear my concerns about Bernie as "antisemitic".

"self-serving Jew"

I didn't describe Bernie like that. Those are YOUR words.

I've said that Bernie's actions were consistent with the American Jewish community's support for Civil Rights at the time and I've provided links to information that demonstrate that.

"Self-serving" is a pejorative that applies to an individual not a group. Groups pursue their interests and it's not racist or antisemitic to say that they do so.

To the extent that Bernie was influenced by his Jewish peers and motivated to support the Jewish community, he can be said to be connected to the American Jewish community. And that is my simple point (which I've explained several times). And his spending time in Israel as a young man is confirming.

=
it was Jackrabbit who said that the mere reason that Sanders is Jewish is reason to suspect that he is pro-EMPIRE

This is absolutely FALSE.

I've said that Bernie might be pro-Empire because of several factors: 1) his political career; 2) his connection to establishment Democrats (Party leaders); 3) his apparent attachment to Israel and the American Jewish Community (which is, on the whole, pro-Israel). I never said that just being Jewish makes him suspect. In fact, I've noted many times that there are many Jews that don't approve of Israel.

=
"Israel is a parasite on the Empire..." is anti-Semitic.

This is essentially equating criticism of Israel with antisemitism.

It is difficult to accurately describe the relationship between USA and Israel without using a word like "parasite". Israel benefits enormously from it's relationship with USA and AIPAC ensures that thse benefits continue indefinitely. No knowledgeable, independent observer disputes this.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 26 2020 5:35 utc | 417

@418 ADKC

I can't believe I have to write this, but I'm a truther first before anything else. I think you're having the wrong discussion with Jackrabbit and you are now in the weeds where he wanted to drag you. I agree that Bernie was not a self-serving Jew, but I disagree that all Jews who allied themselves with the Civil Rights Movement were not self-serving. Many were. You are presenting too perfect an image of Jews, and they are far from perfect and some had ulterior motives.

Here's the thing. Some Jews were genuinely empathetic with the struggles of Blacks in America. Other Jews were using the movement as an opportunity to spread and embed Zionism in the American psyche and to expand their influence as a community. Influence begets power, and while most communities want power, Jews were much better at achieving it. Normally, that might be okay; but too bad most are intransigent Zionists.

I also believe Bernie was naive about Israel then and is STILL too naive now, although his heart is in the right place. Until Bernie actually visits Gaza he is not yet where I believe he should be in regards to the deep suffering of Palestinians and one day, although Bernie privately acknowledges the tragedy that was the Nakba, one day, when he becomes President, I want him to express it PUBLICLY. Bernie Sanders has surrounded himself with pro-Palestine supporters and advisors. This is a hopeful sign, but he is between being a Zionist and a reluctant anti-Zionist and he needs to go to Gaza and walk in their shoes to understand how naive he really is in regards to Israel. I am of the same feeling as the author of this article:

debate supporting Bernie

What infuriates me about Jackrabbit and I rarely discuss with him now, is that he is oblivious to the depth of human despair that does not have the luxury to wait for the perfect candidate OR has the influence to make such a candidate, should he/she appear be viable or even bring other Americans to suddenly accept and embrace at this moment a candidate that would take anti-Zionism to a mainstream level. I call his position ignorant and I refuse to waste time on ignorance.

One more thing, Jackrabbit is right that Israel is a parasite on the Empire and that is not anti-Semitic; it's a reality. When the U.S. government feels somehow obligated to fund Israel to the tune of 4 billion yearly and that funding is used to sustain Apartheid ie cruel inhumanity, when individuals like Adelson, Bloomberg, Saban and others buy political favor towards Zionism corrupting democracy in the process, when the gatekeeping media is NEVER truthful about Israel, thereby making the public ignorant of the inhumanity their taxes buy and the corrupting influence of Zionists then that is a parasitic relationship and therefore one must conclude that Zionism is being sustained not only in a parasitic manner, but that. Zionism itself is in fact anti-Semitic because it is toxic for Judaism, and disgraces and defames Jews. You may not like this, but it's proven reality, and therefore, the truth.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 5:42 utc | 418

john brewster @405

I never said that the use of the word "Zionist" is forbidden. I said that there are many different interpretations of the word and as such, it was a meaningless but damaging allegation to make against Sanders. I said that there are many different interpretations of the word and as such, it was a meaningless but damaging allegation to make against Sanders. So straight away, far from insisting on one interpretation on the word "Zionist" - I say quite the reverse; the word has several interpretations (and these interpretations range from the benign to the malign.)

It may not be on this board, but that is increasingly unique. You say there are many interpretations of the word. That is not my experience. I have literally been banned from boards for quoting a 1948 letter signed by Hannah Arendt and Albert Einstein denouncing Zionism as

"akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties, one that “preache[s] an admixture of ultra-nationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority.”

I have also been warned and flagged on other fake left boards, such as DKos, for using the term Likudnik. So you will pardon my sensitivity to the "banned word list".

The issue here, which you try to blow right past, is that Zionism has been conflated with Judaism, so that legitimate questions about Israeli government policy or Likud party policy are declared off-limits with the selective accusation of anti-Semitism. I say selective because, these days, Israel is silent about Ukrainian and Hungarian neo-Nazis

Zionism’s attitude toward anti-Semitism is more ambiguous than people realize.  Theodore Herzl, the Viennese journalist who founded modern Zionism, made this clear in the 1890s.  Rather than combatting anti-Semitism, he argued that Jews should accept it as an ineradicable fact of life.  Instead of opposing it, they should make use of it as a lever with which to pry their co-religionists loose from western society so that they would move to Palestine. 

Netanyahu’s Tolerance for Anti-Semitism Goes Back 120 Years

----

I wasn't browbeating the board I was browbeating Jackrabbit and Jackrabbit doesn't hold back from browbeating either. I am now browbeating you.

Well at least we agree that accusations of browbeating are not anti-Semitic.

----

Describing Jews as “self-serving” is not common or benign phraseology – it is an anti-semitic trope.

So you say, but you offer no evidence. The news is full of people of all stripes accusing others of all stripes of being self-serving. It is as common an insult as "corrupt". But somehow, when directed against someone who is Jewish, it magically becomes anti-semitic . Some kind of newspeak, I guess. OTOH, Zionists calling Jews who object to Zionist policies "self-loathing" is somehow not "anti-semitic". Nice double standard you got there.

----

The use of the word "parasite" in context as "...because Israel is a parasite on the Empire..." is anti-Semitic.

Let me walk you through the chain of reasoning about parasitism. Israel (AIPAC) lobbies heavily for US funds and technology transfers. The absence of those US supports would cause the Israeli government to have severe economic and military problems. OTOH, today's US is massively underinvested in its own physical and social infrastructure. This is not the 1960s, when the US could easily afford to send all kinds of aid all over the world and still build out the Interstate Highway System. But, according to you, to say that Israel is getting funds desperately needed by US citizens to fix up their own country makes Israel parasitic on the US is anti-semitic. Please explain the flaw in this logic.

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I don't accept that "at the time, also the victim of deep discrimination just like the blacks". Jews as a group were comparatively wealthy and did not experience anything like the discrimination experienced by Afro-Americans.

If someone tried to claim that the wealth of black professionals in the ghetto represented all blacks, there would be hell to pay. In case you missed it, many Jewish folks were employed in garment sweatshops, bakeries, and other physically demanding and low paying jobs. But I will let that slide. Let's talk about your "comparatively wealthy" folks.

By the end of the 19th century, Jews, once accepted as paying guests at boardinghouses, hotels and resorts, were turned away. The rise of nativism in immigration debates led to new “No Israelite” policies and signs advertising “Gentiles Only.” Anti-Semitism limited Jews’ access not only to hotels but also to social and professional clubs, private schools, camps and fraternities. If Jews were lucky enough to gain access, they faced resentment.

Twentieth-century anti-Semitism took new forms. When the prominent industrialist Henry Ford introduced Americans to the idea of a world Jewish conspiracy in his newspaper, the Dearborn Independent, his reputation enhanced its respectability. Social exclusion morphed into educational discrimination as Columbia, Harvard, Princeton, Yale and many other schools set quotas on the number of Jews admitted.

In the 1947 Academy Award-winning film “Gentleman’s Agreement,” a journalist played by Gregory Peck pretends to be a Jew to expose the well-known secret of polite society’s discrimination against Jews in hotels, housing, jobs and on the playground.

During the civil rights struggle of the last half of the 1950s, 90 percent of the bombs planted by extremists targeted African Americans; the other 10 percent targeted Jews in their synagogues and community centers and their rabbis at home.

2019 WaPo article

It would seem that being the only non-black group being bombed doesn't qualify as discrimination in your book. Perhaps because they only received 10% of the bombs.

As for the other items mentioned above, if one is trying to get into or advance in the professions and higher society, then what I just quoted wasn't innocuous fraternity hazing. (Oh, wait, they weren't allowed into fraternities.) It was an attempt to shut "comparatively wealthy" people out of entire segments of professional life.

Posted by: john brewster | Feb 26 2020 5:47 utc | 419

Sanders needs to get in the game in South Carolina. I know he has at least 3 rallies there this week. He needs to have his surrogates work this state, but even if he should come in 2nd that's okay, because S.C. in the general is Trump country red ALL THE WAY and will never be blue. So he can afford not to be 1st, but heck would be a feather in his cap if he won there.

Bernie must not give in to moderates though. Many moderate blacks in S.C. are shamefully voting fear and establishment and a loser candidate. HOWEVER, if ever there was a time to move the party left--this is the time and it's no time to pander to centrists! Bernie has a loyal, solid base that no one else has and new voters are not going to the center, so this is HIS time, not Biden's and definitely not Bloomberg or Butthead's who will lose MISERABLY to Trump. The Democrats HAVE EVERYTHING TO LOSE IN NOT BACKING THE WINNING HORSE, SANDERS.

Moderates will support Bernie in the general, but not all of his base will support another candidate as some of his supporters are in this only because Bernie is in it. So the fcking Democratic Party better keep that in mind, cause they sure wanna repeat history! Only this time the margin won't be so close if they force one of the moderates.

Now, South Carolinians need to know that none of the other candidates will defeat Trump! Good thing S.C. isn't an important state, but what a waste to throw delegates at candidates who will never defeat Trump. Gawd they're stupid!

All being said. If Bernie ends up compromising his integrity or humanity in a bad way later, I promise you, I will become his worst enemy, and will despise him to the grave. I am not like kool-aid drinking Trumpers. I will not make excuses for shet.

However, I am 100% behind him, and I'm convinced beyond all doubt he is the only one who can defeat Trump and I hope more people realize this, because any of the other candidates will unleash Trump and hell upon us all.

ONLY BERNIE SANDERS CAN DEFEAT TRUMP. (My intuition rarely, if ever, lets me dowm and I have rarely been more sure of anything IN MY LIFE.)

Democrats, if you're listening reading, don't blow this chance, you morons.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 6:51 utc | 420

Trump in Delhi “There could be very serious sanctions,” he said without giving details. “You are going to see in a little while. You are asking a question right in the middle of us doing something.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-crime/captain-murdered-on-oil-tanker-off-venezuela-port-authority-idUSKBN20J2VJ
"Six armed individuals boarded the San Ramon tanker early Monday morning in Pozuelos Bay and shot the captain, Colombian national Jaime Herrera Orozco, a report from the Puerto La Cruz port authority seen by Reuters said.
A coast guard sergeant guarding the ship was also injured, the report added."

"Jose Bodas, an oil workers union leader in Puerto La Cruz, said the tanker had been waiting to enter the Jose oil terminal to load with crude. He said it was the first time he could recall an attack of this type in eastern Venezuela, and it was the first death at the hands of “pirates” he knew of."

Robbery or a motive was not mentioned.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 26 2020 7:05 utc | 421

This local TV report (link found over at naked capitalism) says the only way to be guaranteed a ticket for the debate was to be a "sponsor" at a cost of $1,750 to $3,200 a seat.

Charleston Voters Express Confusion, Frustration Over Presidential Debate Accessibility

I think there's also a link at n c to a Slate snark about how popular Bloomberg was with the audience.

Posted by: jalp | Feb 26 2020 7:20 utc | 422

re ADKC | Feb 26 2020 4:02 utc | 418 who tried to confuse by saying:
I never said that the use of the word "Zionist" is forbidden. I said that there are many different interpretations of the word
You've written some deceitful tosh akdc or whatever you astroturf under, but that is ridiculous.
zionism here and for that matter, everywhere else where it is discussed, means one thing, that is a racist cult perpetrated by jews and xtian godbotherers -the latter eager to bring on endtimes.

The cult is racist because it propagates the myth that jews are 'the chosen people' then uses that bullshit to deprive the indigenous population of all Palestine of their land and nation, by employing the same techniques that whitefellas perfected in the 19th century to drive indigenous populations of Africa, Asia & the Pacific off & away from resource rich locations the whitefellas coveted.
Home invasion, rape, child mutilation and murder are the methods which have been employed by zionists all across Palestine just the same as whitefellas used but now claim to eschew.

The idea of being an ultra intelligent people is given the lie by the stupidity zionists display in their dealings with amerika.
They have seen how amerika tossed other groups most recently kurds as soon as they became surplus to requirements or there was a better return trading with their 'allies' enemies, yet dumb zionists have convinced themselves that could never happen to them - yeah right, yet while the numbers of islamic people in amerika is growing larger, and larger, the need for israel as a base to monitor and opress the islamic people of the ME is shrinking. Endtime for oil is approaching and with that so is the need to keep oppressing all the people of the ME, an incredibly expensive exercise.
Simultaneously the ordinary amerikan is wondering why their taxes provide health,and welfare & education programs in israel that they can only dream about having in amerika.

Zionism is a death cult that is racing towards extinction. The maths is simple, however many ME nations are harangued into being 'friendly' those feelings are little more than a deceit practised by ME leadership concerned about being regime changed. The average citizen of the ME be they islamic or xtian loathes israel & israelis with a passion because they know the truth of what has been happening in the ersatz state.

Zionism is racist, oppressive and founded on deceit which makes it totally unjust as is any zionist and/or any others who support this death cult.

Posted by: A User | Feb 26 2020 7:39 utc | 423

Second day of Assange trial
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-2/

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Feb 26 2020 8:44 utc | 424

As they saying goes in Texas Bernie has proven himself to be all hat and no cattle.

RussiaGate Claims Its Next Victim – Bernie Sanders

Even Jimmy Dore is calling Bernie out about this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlIIqJnH-_k

Posted by: Carciofi | Feb 26 2020 11:13 utc | 425

@ 328 Noirette

Your view is understandable, Thanks:)

Posted by: SharonM | Feb 26 2020 12:23 utc | 426

A letter Burner may want to read > "FDR's Letter to the Democratic Convention Delegates in 1940" (A FUIQ)

@ "Jesse's CAFÉ AMÉRICAIN" there's a nice clean copy.

..................

In other stuff, the pirate attack and murder of captain of a Mexican tanker near V does seem to be the sort of stuff they did to the Sandinistas...mining ships...may be next...or - why not (?) simply fly the jolly roger and torpedo them.

Posted by: Walter | Feb 26 2020 12:47 utc | 427

@389 I expressed some doubts about the strength of Bernie's commitment to Palestinian rights.

My doubts have been dispelled.

Bernie has boycotted the AIPAC conference, called Netanyahu a "racist" in yesterday's debate, and tweeted that he would fight for the right of BOTH Israel and Palestinians to live in "peace and security".

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 26 2020 13:03 utc | 428

It's very clear to me that (Warren + Klobachar), Buttigieg, and Steyer siphon votes from Bernie.

But is this clear to Primary voters what this means?

I'm not saying that these candidates should leave the race, but I think Bernie should make a point of explaining (in the debates) how the Primary works.

For the leading contenders, every vote is magnified. When the progressive vote is diffused among a number of candidates, it becomes more difficult for a progressive to win (already an uphill battle).

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 26 2020 13:12 utc | 429

@432 Jackrabbit

Damn you Jackrabbit! Do you think Palestinians have the luxury of waiting for your FICTIONAL pure candidate and fictional pure party that the majority of brainwashed Americans can accept???

Do you think brainwashed Americans are ready to vote as a majority for anyone who condemns Israel? Ilhan Omar is lucky if she is re-elected in the most anti-Zionist district in the country!

Would you wait for that ILLUSION if you were suffering as deeply as Palestinians???

You are intellectually DISHONEST. Until you HONESTLY answer those questions you appear like nothing more than an anti-Semitic troll who hates Bernie for being a Jew!

Did you not read the link to Mondoweiss in my post in which Palestinian American activists admit Bernie is not their ideal candidate, but is better than anyone viable up to now and the harm to Palestinians of Americans not voting for him is so great they must seize this opportunity hopeful that Bernie's deep sense of justice will bring justice for them.

Who are you to stand in the way of the only hope to come along for a suffering millions of people??! You disgust me! Stop with your sick and irrational anti-Bernie rants!

Your hatred eclipses all compassion!

Read the damn article and quit trolling!

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 13:46 utc | 430

If Bernie was really serious about winning the nomination and have a shot at the presidency he would be pursuing an aggressive strategy of expanding his base by rejecting the Clinton doctrine, rejecting Russiagate, and rejecting all the faux journos on CNN, NYT, WP and MSNBC who continue to undermine his electability. He would be agreeing wholeheartedly with Eisenhower explaining how the MIC and its deep-state enablers are the real enemy of the U.S. He would be explaining how Israel through its various congressional lobbies, not Russia, is the country that interferes the most with U.S. elections. I think the reason he is not capable of acting in this way is because his age has fossilized his lifelong belief in U.S. institutions.

Posted by: Carciofi | Feb 26 2020 13:54 utc | 431

Health officials warn of ‘inevitable’ spread of coronavirus in U.S.

Embrace yourselves - because we'll do nothing about it.

Meanwhile, Italy already has more than 340 cases, with 12 deaths -- a mortality rate of almost 4%. Race theorists, rejoice over those Chinese deaths while you can, because your theory is going down.

Posted by: vk | Feb 26 2020 14:04 utc | 432

The Burniedude in perspective...alas see> Peter Lavelle Interviews Alastair Crooke

Yeah sure, vote. It matters...

But if anybody imagines the Project will stop until real circumstance forces the Project to stop, they smoking d' gud stuff.

If they can rid themselves of FDR and all the Kennedys and Martin - even in those primitive times...don't expect much.

Speaking of Wallace... (yeah)... Tulsi for VP immediately fubars the sitrep-dc... And she's cute. And not a coward.

Meantime, circumstances do, always, change - so maybe the Fates will laugh and align for Burner... Long bet tho.

Marat Sade comes to mind

thus>

"We invented the Revolution, but we didn't know how to run it. Look. Everyone wants to keep something from the past, a souvenir of the old regime. So, this man decides to keep a painting; this man keeps his mistress; this man keeps his horse; this man keeps his garden. That man keeps his farm lands; that man keeps his house in the country; that man keeps his factories; that man couldn't bear to part with his shipyards; that man keeps his army; and that one keeps his King. And so we sit here and write into the Declaration of the Rights of Man, "the sanctity of private property". And now we see where that leads: Every man is equally free to fight, fraternally and with equal arms, of course. Every man, his own millionaire. Man against man, group against group, in happy, mutual robbery. And we sit here, more oppressed than when we begun, and they think the Revolution's been won.

and, better still>

Don't be deceived when our Revolution has been finally stamped out, and they tell you that things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen, because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you've got more wages and can afford to buy more of these new and useless goods. And even if it seemed to you that you'd never had so much - that is only the slogan of those who have that much more than you. Don't be taken in when they pat you paternally on the shoulder and tell you there's no more inequality worth speaking of, no more reason for fighting. If you believe them, they will be completely in charge in their shining homes and granite banks, from which they rob the people of the world under the pretense of bringing them freedom. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them, they will send you out to protect their wealth, in war - whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can, with the flick of a finger, tear a million of you to pieces.

Put Dear Burnie in perspective.

Posted by: Walter | Feb 26 2020 14:04 utc | 433

@435 Carciofi

He would do this, and that and that...yada, yada, yada.

And that would kill his campaign and then the media and the establishment vultures would pounce on him and devour what's left to ensure no one of his persuasion gets this far in a race for the Presidency again! And that would really advance us wouldn't it? 🙄🙄🙄

Jackrabbit,

I'm waiting for your answers. If you do not answer my @434, I'm going to expose what you really are.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 14:23 utc | 434

@437 Walter

So how many times have you flip-flopped from Bernie, yes to Bernie, no, now? Must be you're really a Trump supporter who thinks Bernie can help Trump win, so you're really against what Bernie stands for.

You and others like you are the rot that keeps the consciousness of man from evolving.

Jackrabbit,

I know you read my post, so where are my answers? I'm starting to think you're a coward as well.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 14:39 utc | 435

This video I link to below, shows Bernie Sanders addressing the 2014 Israeli massacre of Palestinians. It was a massacre perpetrated by an imperialist power on the oppressed indigenous people of Gaza. The video is seven minutes long, and it clearly shows Bernie Sanders NOT to be a leftist, but a zionist--which of course means today one who supports the imperialism of Israel. This is as clear as day. It is excellent that he is criticizing Israel during his campaign, but there is no doubt that suspicions of his honesty concerning those criticisms are well deserved, especially after watching this video:

"Bernie Sanders town hall gives US party line when confronted re: #gaza"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf2cCdgwgoM&feature=youtu.be

Posted by: SharonM | Feb 26 2020 14:45 utc | 436

@436 vk

What an ingenious way to extend Presidential term limits! It seems Trump's in no hurry to see democracy happen to his detriment or leave any time soon.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 14:47 utc | 437

Circe | Feb 26 2020 14:39 utc | 439

I do not believe you're memory's correct. I promised you quite specifically that I would vote for Bernie. I have never changed my mind. How you can construe differently is a mystery.

Your ad hominem is rude, childish, and uncalled for. You ought to apologize for it.

Two can play at stupid game.

The abject fact is that an epoch of thalassocratic rule is ending and politics follows the changes. Will does not cause Change, Circumstance forms Will.

You probably ought to say sorry to Jackie too...

Posted by: Walter | Feb 26 2020 14:47 utc | 438

@442 Walter

Say sorry to the rabbit who gives a shet about the suffering of millions of Palestinians?

My dignity replies, NO!!!

And yeah, so you say but, dang, you keep playing that ugly cynical anti-Bernie card.

So, I'll pass on apologizing to that, too, thanks. BUT, stop trying to offend my intelligence, and I'll think about it...

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 15:02 utc | 439

Circe #438

"and the establishment vultures would pounce on him..."

They already are! So are you saying the reason Bernie isn't pushing back on the establishment's determination to destroy his candidacy is because of his own fundamental loyalty to the establishment, or because he believes his base is fundamentally loyal to the establishment? Personally I think it's a bit of both. IMO The best shot Bernie has in winning the election is to do whatever it takes to expand his base and include disenfranchised people who voted for Trump in 2016. And a good way to do this is to appeal to their distrust of the establishment, just as many of his base distrust the establishment.

Posted by: Carciofi | Feb 26 2020 15:10 utc | 440

@440 SharonM

So in other words, you're self-righteous SELF is saying we should all just ignore the fact that Palestinians are hoping Bernie wins, their American activist counterparts are fighting for Bernie to win, but YOU, from your comfortably numb existance, know better what's right for a nation suffering extreme oppression and whose pain is multiplied under Trump???

👎🤬

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 15:14 utc | 441

I have accomplished an amazing feat. I have actually shut down the rabbit's Bernie hate spam for an entire 3 hours! 🤗💪

That still doesn't mean I won't expose his game if he doesn't respond to my questions @434.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 15:22 utc | 442

Circe | Feb 26 2020 15:02 utc | 443 Do not conflate intelligence with faith, as this makes effective orientation, perception, and worthwhile action highly ineffective. Indeed, this conflation is the basis of all con games. I have never insulted your intelligence, nor, I am entirely sure, even your delusions, or any other characteristic of yours - only criticized your rudeness and your memory.

The objective reality is imperial failure due to internal fissures under cathodic circumstances the imperial mind cannot grasp. That's the mark inside. The collapse is due, essentially, to geography and moral corruption. The triggering event was the dissolution of USSR - and that was recognized at the time... By academics, and I myself discussed the matter with a law professors at the time.

Bernie is not going to change such glacial processes. Nobody can.
If he's elected it'll be with a VP...and like Wallace is Tulsi. For, one might assume, prevention of the Dallas Effect...

Yeah, maybe imperial decline is manageable. Maybe pigs fly. The reality is probably "lots worser" than the USSR collapse.

I'd drag out a map of the US dated about 1790... and put down money - against what's coming down the road.

Posted by: Walter | Feb 26 2020 15:30 utc | 443

Trailer Trash @332:
>Not only could this burgeoning movement be a very long-awaited opening here in the US, it >could be a real game-changer globally.
>Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 25 2020 12:38 utc | 315

"A pleasant thought, but is it more than just another pipe dream? Is there even one example of an electoral machine turning into a movement that went beyond getting votes? If there is, it needs to be closely studied."

Recently, no. While it may seem long ago, the commoners of France's Third Estate took part in a clearly rigged system and turned it into a vehicle for the French Revolution. Because the US people going into this have now, like the French people then, a very tall stack of grievances and very little political organization or ideology (this latter may have advantages as well as disadvantages) I feel this may not be too stretched a comparison. In a sense I'm seeing the Sanders campaign as our modern Third Estate's coming together all over the country, knowing we'll likely be outvoted or otherwise denied, but still gathering together and talking, sharing ideas and experiences and assembling our demands to present to the PTB.

But going beyond this, we can't commit the error of those who "prepare to win the last war" or in this case preceding revolutions—almost all of which were not fought in the metropolitan imperial centers anyway but in the colonized countries where electoral structures were nonexistent or meaningless. Plus, it's not as though socialist consciousness-raising opportunities are thick on the ground here in the US, whose propaganda machine would make Goebbels drool with envy. The terrain of our struggles isn't always that which we would choose according to "classical" models.

We need to be here and now, and ready for something new. We need to *be* something new. Many others have talked about modern warfare—4th generation or what-have-you—being decentralized, with blurring of lines between war and politics, combatants and civilians, or (is this a Saker formulation?) 80% informational, 15% economic, 5% kinetic, etc. US electoral campaigns generally suck all the oxygen out of the social space in which we'd normally be organizing, and the Democratic Party has long been called "the place social movements go to die"... but this may well be an exception that proves the rule. The growth and strength of the Sanders campaign, and the rallying to it of more and more sectors of the working class, is something that has caught both the capitalists as well as many of us longtime revolutionary socialists by surprise.

I believe we need to develop our sense of class war and how to conduct it to its next level. If nothing else a working class presence in an otherwise capitalist election can promote consciousness-raising, exposing the false nature of capitalist democracy, raising socialist alternatives. If there is to be a development here of something akin to "4th Generation Class Warfare", well, it's certainly greatly informational with potentially significant economic ramifications (we'll see about kinetic). And for this year to blur the lines between class war and electoral politics. And to look beyond this year—the election isn't forever (even if the corporate media make it feel that way...).

But we can only do this if we are present with our ideas, experience and hard work alongside everyone else rising in this struggle—building on its strengths, shoring up its weaknesses and fiercely countering its contradictory manifestations (e.g., bashing Russia, China, Iran or other objectionable foreign policy). Influence and leadership are earned in real struggle, where that struggle is happening.

The alternative is for us to hang around the edges of this movement handing out leaflets inviting people to come instead to our little meetings to hear about "pure" socialism. I'm not arguing for any faith in the Democratic Party or US electoral politics as a vehicle for real change, only to recognize that this struggle is breaking out *within* the Democratic Party even though it's not *of* the Democratic Party. I'm trying to argue for a broader perspective on how to build a movement here in the US with what we have, and, there being a relationship between domestic and foreign policy both the realist and optimist in me feels that building even an initially "domestically-minded" mass left here will have global implications.

ps—I too am paying attention to the struggle of the Indigenous peoples of Canada, only not being Canadian am mostly reading and learning…

Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 26 2020 19:46 utc | 444

@Qparticle #415
If you read through the hardware work needed to get the US Navy satellite enabled CB radios working, you would likely conclude (as I have) that literacy is often over-rated compared to the ability to monkey-see, monkey-do.
Criminal gangs and corporations work the same way: maybe a handful of people in any org actually knows anything; the rest are sales, marketing, custom and extra hands.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 27 2020 19:49 utc | 445

449 comments. If you've read most of them you're a rare specimen and can admit it; most commenters sure haven't, not in this thread and not any previous thread and it honestly doesn't seem like it would help some of them if they did since they seem to have no memory at all. It's sort of funny isn't it? :)

Laugh at the Five Eyes, they're shit.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Feb 27 2020 22:21 utc | 446

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