Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 28, 2020
Syria – Deadly Bomb Strike Warns Turkey To End Its Escapades

The last three days of the Idleb campaign were quite eventful.

The Turkey supported Jihadis threw everything they had against Saraqib where the M4 and M5 highways join. This enabled the Syrian army to take some 40 towns and cities at the southern front. The whole Ghab plain has now been liberated and the frontline has been massively shortened.

Idleb governorate Feb 25 2020

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Idleb governorate Feb 28 2020

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Saraqib fell to the Jihadis but they paid a very bloody price for it as the Syrian and Russian airforce continued to intensively bomb the approaches to the city. A new defensive line has now been established around Saraqib and the Syrian army is preparing to recover it.

To take the large area in the south in difficult terrain and against little resistance was more important than the temporary loss of Saraqib.

Yesterday saw a extraordinary escalation as the Russian airforce bombed a Turkish infantry battalion which went south of the M4 highway and came near to the southern frontline. Metin Gurcan deciphered the event:

What exactly transpired on Feb. 27? At around 5 p.m., a Turkish mechanized infantry battalion, comprised of about 400 soldiers, became the target of an airstrike on a road between al- Bara and Balyun, some 5 kilometers (3 miles) north of Kafr Nabl in southern Idlib. According to local sources contacted by Al-Monitor, two Russian Sukhoi Su-34 and two Syrian Su-22 fighter jets had launched intensive bombings of Turkey-backed Syrian National Army (SNA) targets in southern Idlib at around 11 a.m. that day. The same jets hit the Turkish convoy in coordinated action, the sources said. A first, a relatively lighter strike by the Su-22s forced the convoy to stop, after which the pounding intensified, forcing the soldiers to take shelter in several roadside buildings. What followed next was likely the dropping of KAB-1500L bombs — a variation of advanced laser-guided bunker buster bombs capable of penetrating to depths of up to 20 meters (65 feet) — by the Russian jets. Two of the buildings collapsed in the attack, leaving the Turkish soldiers under the rubble.

At least 35 Turkish soldiers, some say 55, were killed and some 60+ were wounded.

The incident was a signal to Turkey that its escapades have to end.

Throughout the last weeks Turkey had used large armed drones to attack the Syrian army. The Turkish troops in Idelb governorate had additionally used man portable air defense missiles (MANPADs) against Syrian helicopters and Russian bombers. Enough was enough.

Turkey does not have permission to use drones within the Syrian airspace. On Wednesday Syria's air defense destroyed one of them.

To use manpads against Russian planes is an act of war. The Russian strike was a reminder to the Turks that it is quite able to wage one.

Russia denied that its planes had launched the attack and Turkey accused Syria of doing it. But these statements are designed to deescalate and to allow for continued peaceful relations between Russia and Turkey. Both sides know very well what really had happened.

There is still Erdogan's threat to launch a full sized attack on the Syrian army on March 1. He threatened to push it back to the old Sochi memorandum ceasefire lines. Russia has moved two frigates into the Mediterranean Sea which are armed with cruise missiles.These will be used if Turkey really attempts to implement its idiotic plan.

NATO and the U.S. have both rejected getting involved in the Idleb affair. Turkey is on its own and Erdogan will have to be careful. He is not only losing in Syria but also in Libya and he can not risk to further upsetting Russia because the Turkish economy depends on it.

Comments

The Syria War has always been a proxy war between the Hegemon, led by the US, and the resistance (such as it has been), ambivalently (to say the least!) ‘led’ by Russia. Russia’s role has been so ambivalent that it has looked as though what Putin was really after was simply a bigger place at the globalist table.
The Syria War was always going to be decided when one of the major powers involved uncloaked, so to speak, and entered the war forthrightly and full force. Russia’s advent into the war was always under the same guise that all the other powers used: that their presence in the war was marginal and intended only to suppress terrorists.
Now that Turkey has ‘uncloaked’ and Russia has stood down, the war is basically over. I think Putin has gained what he wanted – a bigger seat at the table. Life will go on in Syria and will be much better. Anything seems better than the horror of war.
History is written by the winners and Assad will take all the blame – and he does deserve a lot of it. The Hegemon deserves most of the blame, but instead will be praised, or if the Hegemon is blamed, it will be for not intervening sooner, harder. This perspective will be used to bring other countries that resist the Hegemon to heel.
Today is a momentous and dark day.

Posted by: paul | Feb 29 2020 20:59 utc | 201

Egor,
I was quoting you. Do you not know how quotation marks are used? As a nonTurk I have had many occasions to witness the racism of Europeans towards Turks (the seige of Vienna syndrome). Veritas X displays the symptoms. I was merely attempting to counter them. I agree that certain people should stay on topic and cease in propagandizing against other peoples.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Feb 29 2020 21:05 utc | 202

SteveK9@200
Seems to me like you just made a good case for Russian non-intervention in Syria. Why should Russia take enormous risks of all-out war with NATO member, when even if victorious, it’ll be inevitably stabbed in a back by Syria and all its other now “allies”? Just like Serbia never supported USSR in the Cold War, Syria will swing back into western orbit at the first opportunity.
There are no enduring loyalties in that part of the world, so what’s the point of Russia risking everything? What for?

Posted by: Venom | Feb 29 2020 21:07 utc | 203

Venom | Feb 29 2020 19:22 utc | 191
The converse is also true for most of what you say. It’s about the balance and there is simply no question that Russia has the upper hand. Erdogan tried desperately to muster support but supposed western allies are not steppung forward – a consequence of both wanting to wash their hands of the Syrian conflict and in my opinion a clear snub to Erdogan and his mafia style diplomacy.
And you are being very selective in your RF vs TR conflicts! But then you are stuck for choice if your aim is to show how Russia lost to Turkey ))))
Your ploy to get shot of the US is an interesting one. Never heard it before. It would probably work too.)))
But I think the Kurds and Syria Government will work things out.
@BernCron | 198
“Erdogan cannot risk the Lira crashing,
Below that USD 6 peg.”
It is the 6tl threshold but it is the Lira not exceeding that 6tl threshold that Erdogan needs. The threshold was only reached a month or so ago and a lot of business has all but ground to a halt as a direct result. Psychologically it is terrifying for Turkish businesses. It will not now return to below 6 in my view, but that’s a different issue. If you have a different opinion I’d be interested to hear it. Of course exporters will be chuffed, but not all because a lot of raw materials are imported.
And as far as I am aware Turkey only has two drilling vessels and they are both off the coast of Northern Cyprus – there may be exploration elsewhere,
Interesting comment.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 29 2020 21:10 utc | 204

EtTu 202
Do some research. SAA is not suffering catastrophic losses. Plenty of pro Syrian sites disseminating Turk Government propaganda, but none showing any evidence of the Turk crap originating from Syria.
Turk information ware has caused catastrophic loss to peoples minds who are watching what is occurring in Syria but in the real would SAA is taking some hits and casualties from Turk long range rocket and artillery systems, but at the moment, no more than on some of the earlier fronts in the war.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 29 2020 21:14 utc | 205

Egor68500 206
A week or so ago I read Turkey had commissioned their third drilling ship.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 29 2020 21:19 utc | 206

Unknown People Break Into Homes of Three Sputnik Journalists in Ankara

Posted by: Acar Burak | Feb 29 2020 21:59 utc | 207

@190
‘btw, “Sticks and Stones, may break my bones, but words will never hurt me”.’
Says the guy who was literally just complaining about ad hominems.

Posted by: Benjamin | Feb 29 2020 22:00 utc | 208

pat langs article from today…
Mr President! Pompeo wants a US War in Syria!

Posted by: james | Feb 29 2020 22:20 utc | 209

smoothies post from today talking about pat langs post and more..
On This And That

Posted by: james | Feb 29 2020 22:27 utc | 210

There are known knowns and unknown knowns, according to Donald Rumsfeld.
In the case of Syria, the known knowns say some entity will eventually climb up upon their soap box, pontificate at length and declare they and they alone have won the right to RULE OVER THE ASHES.
I watched a video earlier today purporting to show an Assad / Russian aerial counter attack on Saraqib. A video about more destruction of homes and infrastructure. I’ve been seeing this sort of thing for a very long time. Seems like there is never an end to it. Like there’s a never ending desire to be the Lord who claims the rubble as his own. It’s not very encouraging in a big picture consideration. The Leaders tout how civilized they / we are. Don’t you find that odd given their behaviour?
I see in many video’s the lie of the land in Syria, multiple views of tree lined agricultural areas that are now part of the battlegrounds. Land that belonged to simple people who lived lived simple lives, far removed from the desires of people who seek to rule them, their land, their very souls no matter the cost, especially the cost to the innocents.
So many reduced to an American catch phrase, most likely invented by one it’s many marketing / spin orgs which are all TOO COMMON there. It’s all about the spin now. The unfortunate victims of the ambitious, the messianic, the ignoble miscreants who would blithely wave their hands and designate the unfortunates as COLLATERAL DAMAGE. Imagine if said spinners, their families or their bosses and their families were to become categorized by some fos prick in such a manner.
That said, I would like you to watch a UNHCR video which gives Western / American spinners collateral damage a human face. A child’s face.
Children like Ella, age 6.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlqDmLsied4
Imagine if you can that Ella was your child and how it would make you feel? A step perhaps toward being able to claim that we are indeed a civilized people?

Posted by: Bubbles | Feb 29 2020 22:27 utc | 211

Tulsi posts a video denouncing Turkey’s expansionism and the U.S. government and media’s whitewashing of the Islamist extremists as “rebels”:

Tulsi Gabbard 🌺 @TulsiGabbard – 13:07 UTC · Feb 29, 2020
.@realDonaldTrump needs to make it clear to NATO and Erdogan that the United States will not be dragged into a war with Russia by the aggressive, Islamist, expansionist dictator of Turkey, a so-called “NATO” ally. #StandWithTulsi
(video)

Transcript:

Russia is sending warships to Syria right now to protect it from Turkey’s invasion in northern Syria, which is being carried out in alliance with Al-Qaeda. President Trump needs to make it very clear to NATO and Turkey’s Erdogan that the United States will not be dragged into a war with Russia by the aggressive Islamist expansionist dictator of Turkey via NATO. The corporate media needs to stop referring to Al-Qaeda and their affiliated groups in Idlib as “rebels” in a deceptive effort to make them seem like freedom fighters. I and thousands of Americans enlisted after Al-Qaeda’s attack on 9/11. And the media and the Trump administration’s continued labeling of these terrorists as rebels is a disgrace and dishonors all of our men and women in uniform and our entire country. Turkey’s been supporting ISIS and Al-Qaeda terrorists from behind the scenes for years. But now Turkey is being forced to come out from behind the curtain and expose the role that they’ve been playing in the years-long effort to overthrow the Syrian government. Turkey’s Erdogan wants to create an Islamist caliphate in Syria, reestablish the Islamist Ottoman Empire and is working with Al-Qaeda and other terrorists to achieve his goal. He wants to be the caliph in the new Islamist caliphate of his creation. Turkey’s Erdogan is not our friend. He’s one of the most dangerous dictators in the world and the United States government and media have no business helping this Islamist megalomaniac and his Al-Qaeda partners. It is long past time for Congress to pass my Stop Arming Terrorists Act, which would prevent our government from assisting countries like Turkey, who are aiding our enemy, Al-Qaeda. And every presidential candidate needs to tell the American people where they stand. Will they support passage of my Stop Arming Terrorists Act?

Posted by: S | Feb 29 2020 22:47 utc | 212

After reading a certain poster’s assertions of the decimation of the SAA (even as we speak) went looking for other sources of info and found no such reports. At the scale suggested this would be big news, but all major news outlets carry no such news. In this same effort last several days found NBC News and Newsweek articles that were both fully conversant on what has been reported here over the last few weeks, along with political/strategic/military analysis that fully agreed with reporting I have mostly gleaned from MoA, but has not made it onto US TV news. Watched NBC TV news following day, but that reporting was not aired. Make of that what you will, I guess.
Also found and watched video of Trump in India (from 4 days ago, on Newsweek site) again claiming that Syria, Russia, Iran, and Turkey should now deal with ISIS, suggesting the US (at least according to Trump) will not seriously join this fight. Again Trump asserts “We’re only there for the oil.” As always, wondering how fully Trump is POTUS, or rather, just what a POTUS is, in 21stc USofA. Maybe certain parties don’t want him around, at any rate he wasn’t rushing home to huddle with the other vultures concerning this “major crisis.” As always the US has many ways to conduct covert ops either themselves or through their Zionist cronies. And, from what I gather systems such as AWACS can observe from afar, not risking overt involvement.
The issues here are simple (to identify/understand): Turkey cum Erdogan’s expansionism/land theft; jihadist/Al Qaeda/ISIS criminality/malignancy; geopolitical brinksmanship/gamesmanship.
Look critically at what is before you. Russia and Turkey may have many reasons to maintain workable relations, but it’s safe to say that Russia desires to have a base of military presence in the region, and Syria being one of the last of its client allies from the soviet era Russia has no choice but to use Syria. I always assumed that is why Russia would not allow Assad to fall. Turkey is NATO (at least for the time being) so that’s out, and besides there’s too much negative history there for that to ever be a realistic probability. (Also maybe for the time being? but hard to see that after this mess.)
A third generation USA’n retiree from fucking nowhere US rustbelt, I don’t have any dogs in this fight, other than my desire not to see my government prolong this butchery any longer. I will not be part of any cheering section for any side so long as the death and destruction continue. Many ARE dying, and as always, non-combatants always suffer disproportionately. Not so funny now “Should I stay or should I go now?” to a punk backbeat. Certain ugly things must be done, and are being done. When I said, only a few score hours ago that Russia had the most to lose here, I was confident in my claim. I agree that Russia, like most rational “players” always and everywhere looks out for its own interests. Asserting itself, as it has so far, now puts Russia’s credibility in the spotlight, and this is integral to its interests. That Russia would now lead Assad, Syria, and the SAA to slaughter, just doesn’t scan for me.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Feb 29 2020 22:59 utc | 213

Syrian_MC reported on twitter that 14 cruise missiles entered Syrian territory from the sea and impacted in Idlib. No other information provided. What ever is happening in northern Syria isn’t over yet.

Posted by: the pessimist | Feb 29 2020 23:05 utc | 214

vinnieoh
Not only because Syria was an ally and Russia needed a base. A massive concern for Russia was the build up of islamic extremists. The second Chechen war was against al Qaeda fighters that had moved in from Afghanistan and Chechens who had converted to wahhabism and joined al Qaeda. They were backed by CIA.
If the jihadis had taken over Syria, they would have had a secure base. The extremism would have worked its way up through the muslim countries to the south of Russia and back into Dagestan and Chechnya.
Islam is the second religion after orthodox christian in Russia

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 29 2020 23:13 utc | 215

al Jazeera news was reporting about 3 hours ago that the SAA had taken big losses from Turk artillery and armed drones. Allegedly the headchoppers have recovered more than 20 villages following the Turk counter attack. There was no vid footage to support any of the claim & given AJN’s predilection for Muslim Brotherhood, the whole thing may be nonsense, although if it is propaganda it is of a new league, AJN tells pork pies just as much as any other outlet, but usually not lies which can be so easily disproven. They also intimated that Russia & Turkey have done a deal on the side.
We shall find out soon enough.

Posted by: A User | Feb 29 2020 23:30 utc | 216

Peter
Yes, I’m aware of what the Chechnyan experience means to Russia, and in kind, Georgia and Ukraine. I’ve been educated by the events of the last several weeks as to the utter collapse of the US narrative surrounding US GWOT. That education revolves around the fact that what is happening in Idlib province is mostly missing from our daily indoctrination/consensus maintenance (US msm “news”.)
I don’t mind, I’m a relative newbie, and it takes some time to establish ones creds or allegiances, and most of all, sincerity. I hate Trump, but at this juncture he seems the perfect vehicle to disentangle us from this crime, but as I intimated, it is always hard to perceive what is being done in the shadows.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Feb 29 2020 23:33 utc | 217

A User
From what I can make of it, the joint headchopper Turk infantry has began an assault backed by long range artillery and multiple launch rocket systems.
SAA will take some losses but if it gets too bad, Russia will bring in more firepower. Russia is not far away as the white swan flies.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 29 2020 23:37 utc | 218

Biggest problem will be shutting down Turk artillery. Russia may be able to do this with EW though not sure about that.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 29 2020 23:41 utc | 219

Re: Peter AU1 | Feb 29 2020 23:13 utc
In my opinion, Russia has few alliances, and they have paramount importance for its strategic security, most notably -stans in Central Asia. With USA tinkering with better and better nukes and dreaming about first strike capability, the most reliable insurance is to have some territory thousands of miles from American ships, bases, snooping etc, and nothing can be better than the area where Russia, -stans, China (and Mongolia) meet together. When you are not a dominant global power, the best currency in alliances is reliability, the capacity to project force being important aspect number two. USA can behave whimsically, rack deficits etc. with few consequences, but everybody else is much better off with more balanced behavior and spending.
On top of that, crazy terrorist trends that get currency among Muslim are a common concerns of all the countries mentioned above, perhaps even Mongolia (western-most corner of Mongolia has Muslim majority that lives in gers unlike Mongols who prefer yurts , or perhaps the way around).
Putin seems to be a big believer in limited war, avoiding escalation that drains blood and resources from everybody involved, and he is a fanatic about balancing budget — it is not like Russia could simply borrow abroad to cover deficits. But he will not “sell Syria”.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 29 2020 23:43 utc | 220

Piotr Berman
A matter of it being time to take the fight to the US or create a buffer rather than standing defensively behind their borders perhaps covers it rather than any one particular aspect.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 29 2020 23:52 utc | 221

We now have geo located some of the SAA artillery targets in the Turkish videos and, surprise, surprise they are nowhere near Saraqib, they are over on the Al Grab plains. Hats off to the guys capable of doing this analysis from OSINT, its all at
https://twitter.com/obretix/status/1233893001249861636

Posted by: JohninMK | Mar 1 2020 0:00 utc | 222

James 211 + 212
Thank you, really true smoothies, good concluding words — for now.

Posted by: Dilara | Mar 1 2020 0:09 utc | 223

re JohninMK | Mar 1 2020 0:00 utc | 224
That was where I imagined they would strike as has been discussed here that what b described as ‘straightening th front line’ on the southernmost part pf the plains was leaving the entire gang of jihadists wide open for encirclement, which as we know from Stalingrad etc is a much favoured Russian strategy. Once again the SAA has been made dependent on the good graces of the Russian airforce and I suspect that the Russians may not be eager to send erdy purple in the face with steam coming out his ears once again, therefore may concentrate the air strikes upon the headchoppers rather that the more militarily sensible option of destroying Turkish batteries.
If Russia were to destroy the batteries, the SAA has demonstrated it is more than capable of wiping the floor with ragtag bands of takfiri arseholes.

Posted by: A User | Mar 1 2020 0:27 utc | 224

Really?? @179–
I put the link there while deliberately not providing Saker’s conclusion as I wanted people to read it for themselves. IMO, it’s mere speculation. But it’s also okay to report, Some people think this, and then say you’re unconvinced. For me, I need more than mere speculation; I need proof, documentation, as I must remain objective.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 1 2020 0:34 utc | 225

The al jazeera report A User mentions @ 218 And the geo-location JohninMK linked match with bits and pieces on Syrian social media about losing ground there.
On checking map locations they are close to frontline and all (drone if that is what it was) views are from the north which puts the drone close to the frontline.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 0:53 utc | 226

Peter AU 1 @229–
Currently, I find it difficult to ascertain events in Syria aside from those at marcolevel. Lots of rumors. Erdogan’s deadline came and went with the offensive launched via Twitter, not anywhere else as Far as I can tell. Seems a genuine counterattack’s being launched by SAA at Saraqib. But there’s a huge mish-mash of crap that’s hard to filter. Later this morning in Syria thinks will be made clearer.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 1 2020 1:14 utc | 227

karlof1
Agreed. At the moment it looks as though some drones have been used for targeting. SAA have been downing the odd one, so they are there but I not in swarms. Places like the recently retaken plain may not have good air defence, more so with it being in a valley between low mountain ranges.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 1:20 utc | 228

@Blue Dotterel | 204
What are you, 12?
Maybe read and understand my comment before jumping in to defend yourself. I was talking about MY use of quotation marks NOT yours
I really regret having engaged with you.
Are you sure yoy are not a Turk in disguise defending Turks?
And Turk/ Turkish refers to a nationality not a race. Let’s be clear on that.
Please, now drop it ffs!!

Posted by: Egor68500 | Mar 1 2020 2:02 utc | 229

In unclear situations like the current one, instead of trying to wade through fog of war, it makes more sense to analyse the available facts, even if they are sparse:
Hezbollah and the Iranian government have recognized 9 and ca. 20 (Pakistani, Afghan, and 1 Lebanese-Iranian)casualties, respectively. Their statements range from none so far (Hezb) to limpwristed (the statement the Iranians released). They were killed in a targeted Turkish strike far behind the front lines.
Why would Turkey assassinate them, specifically, and what are their probable reactions going to be?
I find these pertinent questions and a more worthwile use of time than trying to debunk Turkish game console propaganda drone videos and absurd cruise missile claims from frightened and confused Syrian civilians.

Posted by: vergv | Mar 1 2020 2:07 utc | 230

Piotr Berman
A matter of it being time to take the fight to the US or create a buffer rather than standing defensively behind their borders perhaps covers it rather than any one particular aspect.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 29 2020 23:52 utc | 223
Frankly, I do not understand your point. “Time to take the fight” is the conclusion, not the reasoning or doctrine.
Turk/ Turkish refers to a nationality not a race. Let’s be clear on that.
Please, now drop it ffs!!
Posted by: Egor68500 | Mar 1 2020 2:02 utc | 232
While Turks can be of any race, they have a strong sense of identity, and xenophobia, twisted sense of superiority (twisted by inferiority complex that more straightforward Americans lack) etc. have strong indicators when you look at ideologies, voting patterns etc. There was a story I read before the grand muzzling of Turkish press about Turkish army entering a Kurdish city to put them to heel. The commander blasted through megaphones “You are all Armenians!”.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Mar 1 2020 2:19 utc | 231

Well the Turks in Syria will have to be wiped out along with their soul mates. They are posting video to social media and the only difference between them and headchoppers is that some headchoppers do not have a full Turk uniform. Quite likely the bulk of those in syria have volunteered.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 2:26 utc | 232

Turkish authorities have detained Alptekin Dursunoğlu, a Turkish journalist, translator, author, and editor-in-chief of Yakın Doğu Haber (a news outlet focusing on the Middle East) who opposes the War on Syria and has written multiple books about it. His last tweet, posted on February 29 at 18:25 UTC: “Şu an gözaltına alınıyorum” (“I’m being detained right now”).

Posted by: S | Mar 1 2020 2:38 utc | 233

@karlof1 | 230 / @Peter AU1 | 231
Fully agree.
Its madness.
And, if I’m remembering events correctly, it’s ironic that after Erdogan is told in no uncertain terms by Putin that airspace will not be opened up for drones, we see such alleged attacks on Syria using drones!! )))
@Peter AU1
Hadn’t heard about the thrid drilling ship. Headed to Somalia no doubt. ))))
I say that tongue-in-cheek, but apparently it could be a lucrative area and politically far safer waters than E Med, I think.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Mar 1 2020 2:44 utc | 234

Piotr Berman
Russia has taken the fight to the jihadis which to all intent and purposes may as well be called the US. In destroying US proxies, Russia has taken the fight to them, rather than wait within its borders.
It also needs reliable allies, and has to ensure they are not isolated and destroyed. As well as what it is doing in Syria, it has also spread its nuclear deterrent umbrella over Iran.
I guess there would be a term for the overall posture but I have no idea what it is.
What I am getting at is that I believe Russia made its move into Syria for a number of interlinking reasons rather than just one objective such as having an ally or setting up military bases or fighting jihadis. It is a combination of all these and more coupled to the very real threat of American exceptionalism and intentions of world dominance.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 2:44 utc | 235

Apparently Bloomberg and Erdogan have much in common in their views of drone use and policy. The Intercept has a pretty good article on Turkeys drones in The Second Drone Age not to be confused with the soon to be Second Stone Age if this keeps up.

Posted by: dltravers | Mar 1 2020 2:45 utc | 236

According to my calender, it is now the first of March. Turks seem to be attacking rather than going home. Erdo has issued his threats and had a public military build up to war.
Russia would have made preparations for grilling kebab….

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 3:11 utc | 237

What followed next was likely the dropping of KAB-1500L bombs — a variation of advanced laser-guided bunker buster bombs capable of penetrating to depths of up to 20 meters (65 feet) — by the Russian jets. Two of the buildings collapsed in the attack, leaving the Turkish soldiers under the rubble.

Didn’t taught that in the Hollywood movies…

Posted by: vk | Mar 1 2020 3:16 utc | 238

The detention of Dursunoğlu follows a large campaign on Twitter calling on authorities to arrest him and other journalists who oppose Turkey’s aggression against Syria.
@Egor68500
Since you know Turkish, perhaps, you might be interested in some of Dursunoğlu’s books. There must be some interesting details there about Turkey’s involvement in the War on Syria that have not been published in English or Russian.

Posted by: S | Mar 1 2020 3:29 utc | 239

@ Posted by: vk | Mar 1 2020 3:16 utc | 241
*didn’t teach
–//–
Over 47,000 Cross Turkey-EU Border as Brussels ‘Closely’ Follows Situation with ‘Concern’
Saw the videos from RT. Didn’t look like too much people.
I’m beginning to think this whole “refugee crisis” in Europe is far-right propaganda.

Posted by: vk | Mar 1 2020 3:50 utc | 240

vk
47000 is a Turk number. Greece has blocked its borders. The first few that Turkey bussed to the border and let through the gates at night apparently got through. Others that came later were apparently stuck in no mans land between the Greek border gates and the Turk border gates.
Erdogan’s refugee blackmail wont work this time.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 4:00 utc | 241

Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 3:11 utc | 240:

… it is now the first of March. Turks seem to be attacking rather than going home.

Erdogan/Turks still have the problem of Russian air support for SAA. Those derned Ruskies aren’t easy to intimidate!
Erdogan’s tried: requesting Patriot air defense from USA; supplying Jihadis with more arms and equipment; use of MANPADS; request for US/NATO support; threatening Europe with more refugees (to force EU to pressure US/NATO). But these haven’t worked (so far).
Ominous(?): As part of the propaganda push, Turks said that they bombed a Syrian chemical weapons plant south of Aleppo. Could a wmd ff be next?
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 1 2020 4:05 utc | 242

I’ve watched a few videos the Turks in idlib are putting out. Pumped up on jihad and dreams of ottoman greatness. One has proudly posted a video of him hold up a severed head. another of a group laughing and joking with known AQ identities. These aren’t conscripts pushed into Syria by Erdogan.
If Erdo calls them back to Turkey, they are quite likely to lopp his head off.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 4:18 utc | 243

I have just been reading Magnier’s comments again. A few hours window of opportunity sounds possible and plausible. Though rather than large numbers of armed drones, I believe it was a small number of drones designating targets during that window. Erdogan made the mistake of hitting Hezbollah and IRGC. Iran has not been hitting Turk positions in Syria until this point.
If Russia did stand down Syrian air defence for a few hours (perhaps erdo had organised something under a truce) and Erdo took advantage of it, then I think we will see lots of b’s Turkish kebab soon.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 4:40 utc | 244

Egor,
I am aware that there are not any biological human races. We are all of the same, single “race”. I use the term “racist” as it is commonly used in denigrating an opposing groups of peoples based on ethnicity, religion, skin color, what have you. The same sort of characteristics that European imperialism have been dividing and conquering peoples on for five centuries, now. Turks, Arabs, Kurds, Russians are ethnic groupings as well as “national” groupings. That the demonizing remarks against a whole people may be directed at their nationality or ethnicity, makes little difference, it is still racism in common modern usage.
Let’s just say we misunderstood each others use of language and leave it at that.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Mar 1 2020 5:13 utc | 245

Blue Dotterel
There are breeds of people just as there are breeds of dogs and breeds of cattle. Most of us are mixed now like a mob of feral goats, but a few who are not.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 5:22 utc | 246

I think someone upthread commented on the attacks or breakins on the three sputnik journalists.
Erdogan’s Turkey reminds me more and more of Hitler’s Germany.
https://www.rt.com/news/482035-sputnik-attack-ankara-turkey/

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 5:41 utc | 247

Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 5:41 utc | 25
A similar thing had happened in Western Turkey some years before. Police detained a Dutch journalist claiming support of opposition groups (aka terrorist). They started interrogation but could not get material valuable enough. Some hours later unknown people break into the house of this journalist. Money, valuable things were not stolen. Just a laptop and some harddrives. 2 days later the journalist was released. The case had gone public and the found proof was ridiculous. Make up your mind.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Mar 1 2020 6:16 utc | 248

Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 5:41 utc | 25
Sorry: they entered the house of the journalist in the Netherlands.
Conclusion: the next thing the EU has to do is to declare the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist organization (cutting heads as a propaganda tool, killing captives). Freeze all money given for refugees. Allow Turkey to help them but on Turkish soil under the surveillance of the EU or the UN. Nothing for anything that is done under the umbrella of E.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Mar 1 2020 6:20 utc | 249

peter au… i think that is erdogans problem.. he can’t let them back or they will lop his head off if they get half a chance… and i think he knows it too.. as i was saying some time ago, he is between a rock and a hard place.. doesn’t help either that he’s a lune…
blue d… yer a good man blue d…

Posted by: james | Mar 1 2020 6:27 utc | 250

turkey under erdogan don’t seem to like the idea of having opposing views aired in the public realm… i think that is why he has shut down or put in jail so many journalists over the past 8 or so years… now the fanatics are going after foreign journalists…

Posted by: james | Mar 1 2020 6:30 utc | 251

I have been looking through times when various claims where posted to social media.
When air defence was active and the odd drone getting shot down and for a short period, a spate of posts where drones were in the air and air defences not firing.
This window Magnier commented on appears to be from about 13 hours ago to 15 or 16 hours ago. Just before or at the start of this window was the news Lavrov and the Russian team were in talks with the Turks on reducing tensions.
I believe the Turks had put out drone video prior to this window but have not yet looked to see what time the video that has been geo-located was released.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 7:17 utc | 253

PeterAU1
Breeds are not races. In biology, it is a fact that Homo Sapiens Sapiens are not categorized as races. If anything,”race” is a sociological construct, not a biological one.
My main point though was that the phrase used by Veritas X, “never trust a Turk” pertains to ethic Turks in Turkey, not Turkish Kurds, Turkish Armenians, Turkish Greeks, Turkish Jews, who also happen to be citizens of the Turkish nation state.
It might simply be a peculiarity of English, that countries named after the dominant ethnic group seem to use the nation state as an adjective, and the ethnic group within that state as a noun.In Canada and the US, the opposite is the case: Russian Canadian, Polish American, Italian American, Chinese Canadian. This may be because, aside from ithe indigenous peoples (refered to as native Americans/Canadians), there are not any ethnic Canadians and Americans. We cannot allow the indiginous peoples to “usurp our designations. (sarc)
My argument though is that Veritas X generalized characterization of Turks is essentially a form of provocative racist propaganda, whether intentionally meant as such by him or not. Further, that the generalization has no basis in fact according to my experience living and working in Turkey. Veritas and Egor may have had different, negative experiences, but that still does not justify Veritas blanket characterization of Turks in this Western propagandistic manner.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Mar 1 2020 7:33 utc | 254

This is what I have been looking for. Information on Turk drones.
This one carries a light weight laser guided glide bomb and can find targets for other missiles.
“Bayraktar TB2 is equipped with a high-power optical station with a thermal imager, allowing drone operators to track the enemy deep behind the defensive lines of the adversary and get accurate real time target coordinates. The data allow to carry out a rapid strike using high-precision weapons, in particular the modern Ukrainian Neptun and Vilkha missiles.”
https://www.unian.info/war/10488717-strike-drones-purchased-from-turkey-armed-with-precision-guided-bombs-ukroboronprom.html

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 7:36 utc | 255

Blue Dotterel
I am not sure why the term race is used for humans and the term breeds used for different groups of animals of the same species.
Either way the various groups belonging to the same species gain the features of their group through inherited genes.
You can spout PC do gooder terms but it doesn’t change what we are as a mammal.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 7:54 utc | 256

As I mentioned yesterday, that, of course there are good Turks[@134](meaning ‘nationality’ in the modern colloquial), well, it look’s like alot of people here have missed the most recent news out of Turkey:
1) “In a joint document signed by 236 social figures,in which she expressed her rejection of Erdogan’s policies in Syria in general and Idlib in particular, considering that his intervention in Idlib turned Tr into a tool in the hands of imperialist states and a protector of terorism. Among those who signed the document so far are many artists, actors, writers, poets, leaders of civil society organizations, jurists, journalists, university professors, doctors, and trade unionists. The initiative’s supervisors expected that the number of signatories to the document will reach hundreds during the next few days, as Erdogan’s regime continues its reckless provocative policies.”
https://twitter.com/ynms79797979/status/1233881157323849729
2) vanessa beeley@VanessaBeeley
28 Feb 2020: Turkish authors, academics, journalists and politicians issue a declaration for the withdrawal of their soldiers from Syria.
‘Askerler evine dönsün’ metni imzaya açıldı
Bir grup siyasetçi, sanatçı, aydın, gazeteci ve yazar ‘Suriye’den elinizi çekin, askerler evlerine dönsün’ başlığını taşıyan çağrı metni yayınladı.
gazeteduvar.com.tr
4:32 PM · Feb 29, 2020
https://twitter.com/VanessaBeeley/status/1233777068502126592
Translation from Bing https://www.bing.com/translator :
“‘Pull your hand out of Syria, soldiers return home’ call
A group of politicians, artists, intellectuals, journalists and writers published a call text with the headline ‘Get your hands off Syria, let the soldiers return home’.
WALL – After the attack in Idlib, Syria, 33 Turkish soldiers were killed, many writers, academics, journalists and politicians issued a declaration to withdraw soldiers.
‘Take your hand out of Syria, let the soldiers return home’, the call text was signed. The text said: “We, those who signed below, are dragged into a predicament, our children are dying to fight on the territory of another country, we are humiliated by the world public and peoples, our country The tong of imperialism is positioned as the patron of religious terrorism and we think it is necessary to act to stop all these negative developments. The facts are clear, the situation is clear. Our military presence on Syrian territory must end immediately and ensure that our troops return home safely.”
As of 28 February 2020 at 22.40, the signatories are as follows:….”
https://t.co/V2KIssQIR3?amp=1
X-
ps. I appears some here still haven’t read my comment @148 regarding the ‘historical background’ concerning the *Never trust a Turk!*-expression; i.e. “Guess we can blame Tsar Peter I for being the OP-original poster concerning trust & turks.”
pss. Orwellian Newspeak & the Cultural Marxist *attack* on the meaning of words, thereby controlling-the-narrative, doesn’t influence my use/choice of words.
I’ve got enough books/dictionaries/lexicons that back my argumentation; the wife & I probably have ca. 2,000 books in our personal library. Books, not pdf’s.

Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 1 2020 8:43 utc | 257

In crop breeding a landrace is a genetically broader, less differentiated strain of the species while a variety or cultivar is more narrow and specialized in its phenotype. When you say “breeds” of domestic animals that’s much more like a crop variety than a landrace, though neither is specialized enough to be considered a subspecies.
A human “race” (as far as actual physical differences) is more like a crop landrace. What the Nazis and other eugenicists have wanted to accomplish is something more like a breed of dog, cow, etc.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 1 2020 8:46 utc | 258

Veritas X- | Mar 1 2020 8:43 utc | 261
Thanks for inserting this link! This means courage. They are right. In the moment these head-cutting images showing “Turkish soldiers” (IMHO these are local scum resp. MHP-type guys, not even islamists, aand not Turkish soldiers) appear in Western media forget about promoting Turkey for touristic purposes this year. A conclusion I would not support but it will happen like this.
The rest: forget about! It is trivial: in each country one can meet people whome one may trust and others. Turkey does not deviate from this average.
More important: what happened there yesterday in reality? We get only propaganda pieces from different sides. Are the terrorists still bombed? Do Syria/Ru let in more Turkish convoys?
Blackmailing the EU using refugees will not work now and fire back.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Mar 1 2020 9:07 utc | 259

A User #218

…given AJN’s predilection for Muslim Brotherhood, the whole thing may be nonsense, although if it is propaganda it is of a new league, AJN tells pork pies just as much as any other outlet, but usually not lies which can be so easily disproven. They also intimated that Russia & Turkey have done a deal on the side.
We shall find out soon enough.

Well said about al Jazeera and I would never trust them to be honest in this case. It sure is propaganda of a new league, the twitterati is boiling with dead SAA and Hezbolah soldiers. Gleeful videos of Turkish soldiers proudly decapitating POW Syrian soldiers and shaking their grisly heads in the air.
This is bad stuff and the jihadi/ISIS fanaticism is now mixed with the Turkish grey wolves (ultra nationalists) salivating for new land and new dead.
As for a deal between Turkey and Russia: I do not believe that propaganda for a minute. There is every chance that Turkey will win no friends at all here and will end up cravenly embarrassing Turkish identity. So long as no one attacks Turkey proper, there will be no NATO response and THAT seems very clear. When Turkey gets handed its arse in Idlib it will be seen as an idiot state with savages (grey wolves) dictating the foreign policy.
Note that suddenly there is an outbreak of ISIS in the far south at Daraa where it seems the rats have returned from their vacation in the Golan Heights (property of Israel /sarc). So given Trump has donated this Syrian land to Israel it can be said that Israel has invaded Syria. That means war! If Iran’s ally is attacked by Israel then what?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 9:09 utc | 260

uncle tungsten
Perhaps from Golan, but there is good number in the US wildlife refuge just to the east.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 9:15 utc | 261

Peter AU1 | Feb 29 2020 23:41 utc | 221
“Biggest problem will be shutting down Turk artillery. Russia may be able to do this with EW though not sure about that.”
When you have air superiority you only need to locate it and bomb it, correct? Where there is a will there is a way. Is there a will though?
No matter how hard Russia tries to not kill Turks, it seems impossible since turkish soldiers are fighting together and in mixed units with al qaeda against the SAA and it’s allies.
Erdogans deadline has passed and instead of a retreat we witness an escalation and renewed turkish/al qaeda offensive. As i said before it all boils down to the magic number of 60.000

Posted by: redrooster | Mar 1 2020 9:18 utc | 262

Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 1:20 utc | 231
responding to karlof1

At the moment it looks as though some drones have been used for targeting. SAA have been downing the odd one, so they are there but I not in swarms. Places like the recently retaken plain may not have good air defence, more so with it being in a valley between low mountain ranges.

Thanks Peter AU1, as I see it the range to the east of the plain is critical to fully conquer right now. Hold the plain with defensive measures but seize the range to the east. That gives absolute fire control over both the plain and the M4 north. If the SAA can take that high ground then cross the M4 and take the continuing high ground north of the M4 they will have a commanding fire control situation. They just need to be absolutely capable of defending that reach.
Further west of the plain the SAA is within a kilometer or two of the M4 and that gives them high order control of the M4.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 9:21 utc | 263

#266 oops botched the blockquote ////

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 9:22 utc | 264

Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 9:15 utc | 264
:)) one day there will be tigers in that wildlife refuge.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 9:24 utc | 265

Russ @262
And, let’s not forget Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=margaret+sanger&t=ffcm&ia=web
And, as always *Follow-the-Money* :
“John D. Rockefeller Jr. donated five thousand dollars to her American Birth Control League in 1924 and a second time in 1925.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#American_Birth_Control_League
And, did you all know that “THE ROCKEFELLER FAMILY SECRET JEWS!”.
READ:
http://whale.to/b/rockefeller9.html
https://archive.org/details/grandeesamericas00birm
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffcm&q=The+grandees+%3A+America%27s+Sephardic+elite+by+Birmingham%2C+Stephen&ia=shopping
X-

Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 1 2020 9:25 utc | 266

Veritas X- #260

ps. I appears some here still haven’t read my comment @148 regarding the ‘historical background’ concerning the *Never trust a Turk!*-expression; i.e. “Guess we can blame Tsar Peter I for being the OP-original poster concerning trust & turks.”

Thanks Veritas X- I did read it earlier and I almost retorted with
never trust a sultan or a president or a queen
but I figured we had hashed the subject sufficiently.
I do appreciate your commentary and have no agenda or desire to shape your thoughts and words. We can collide here and dent the fenders from time to time but always find solace and wisdom at the bar.
I spent some hours today reviewing Sun Tsu Art of War and came to the conclusion that Erdoghan is not on the winning side but Assad is much more firmly positioned there. On that reflection I am pleased to see mighty brave Turkish citizens speaking out against this moron. He will be hard pressed to survive this unfolding debacle.
Time will tell.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 9:36 utc | 267

uncle tungsten
A few days ago I put up a comment that the jihadis and Turks concentrating on Saraqib while taking losses on the southern front may have been preparation for a Turk offensive as cutting the M5 was their top priority.
Turks may take some more ground yet, depending on how hard the SAA has been hit and what the Turks are putting into the fight.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 9:44 utc | 268

@Piotr Berman | 234
Precisely. If you want a laugh watch Bilal Erdogan’s “Ethnic Sports” project – pure cultural appropriation.
@S | 242
Yep, I heard about Dursunoglu. There are also several journalists from Mezopotamia and Rudaw that were arrested for trying to film at the border. Also Sputnik journalists have been terrorised by a mob apparently. It is typical xenophobic nationalist mob mentality. What annoys me is that the west praises the cowardly types of Dundar who fled to the safety of the EU but completely ignores the plight of those brave journalists being harrassed and often imprisoned for writing the truth who remain in Turkey fighting to creat a nation they can be proud of.
This mob mentality is not at all surprising, however, and mirrors the aggressive mob behaviour directed at Syrians that I was talking about in Hatay and Antep over the last couple of days – probably in other areas too, but I have no direct knowledge of those.
As an aside I have a couple of old friends who are now at the Edirne border. Whatever you think of refugees, ask me and I will tell you their stories. It breaks my heart. I’ve known them for years and wish I were in Turkey now to help them other than financially but life doesn’t work like that. But I hope and pray that they make it to Europe, simply because there is so little humanity in Turkey towards those in need.
Oh and don’t believe what you hear about the border its all bollocks. Nothing like 78k Erdogan claims and completely manufactured refugee “ripple” that need not have happened. The original bus loads were clearly organised to create the ripple – It is an irresponsible and shamefully inhuman government that willingly puts the vulnerable in such a dangeours at times position. I sincerely hope the sea journeys are theatre because the seas yesterday and today were very dabgerous for flimsy dinghies.
Where the f*** is the condemnation?

Posted by: Egor68500 | Mar 1 2020 9:45 utc | 269

Peter AU1 #264
This twitter site has the attacks in western Daraa so that is close to Golan Heights. The isis team could easily have come from the wildlife reserve or jordan too.
the quote “Clashes in the city of tafas in the western region of daraa , and reports Armed gunmen attacked one of the military barracks in the city.
Not a bad site to check in on occasionally and gives quite up to date reports avoiding BS and terrorist links.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 9:52 utc | 270

Headchoppers posted a video of a plane they shot down standing around the wreckage and having a good time and trying to do the houthi fist in the air thing.
Turns out it was a Turk TAI_Anka drone shot down by Syrian air defence.
https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/1234053872446038016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_Anka
“Electro-optic/Forward Looking Infrared/Laser rangefinder/Laser Designator”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 10:04 utc | 271

I don’t know what range these laser designators are capable of but with a bit of a search I found one US laser guided munition with a range of 24km that needs laser guidance continuously.
Looks like these drones could stand off quite a distance and light up targets for artillery.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 10:09 utc | 272

Turkey is morphing into a pariah state mainly in attacking civilians in Syria, backing terrorists and using migrants as political tool to pressure the EU. It will end badly for Turkey

Posted by: Nick | Mar 1 2020 10:14 utc | 273

Hausmeister #261

Do Syria/Ru let in more Turkish convoys?

Thank you Hausmeister, I had that question too and the YNMS twitter site led me this report. Dated 1 March. So more target practice on its way.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 10:18 utc | 274

Peter AU1 #274

Looks like these drones could stand off quite a distance and light up targets for artillery.

Yes to that. It is vital in any battlefield to keep enemy drones out of the sky. The capacity to give precision strikes is a major battle field advantage.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 10:22 utc | 275

Putin? #278

At least opt for an honorable death or defeat by exposing Putin and the Russians as being the most insidious enemies of all Christian and civilized peoples.

Russians are christians Hillary. You should know that. The USA love them and they even sold %20 of their uranium production to them FOREVER. So don’t mouth off to one of the USA great nuclear allies. Celebrate the fact that Stalin is dead and the USA oligarchs and the Russian oligarchs run the world together.
If you must have someone to hate then hate the Atlanteans as it was those bastards that made off with all the ships AND the lad that the USA wanted. Got it?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 10:51 utc | 276

Made off with all the Land…

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 10:52 utc | 277

Uncle Tungsten @269
Thanks alot UC.
I appreciate it.
Being an ‘old NJ(new jersey) guy’ explains my sometimes-usuage of ‘cutting my opponents down to size’, when deemed necessary.
I have the highest respect for *b*’s site, and normally ignore what I consider ‘immature behavior’ as well as troll/bot/paid shill-types that purposely try to de-rail any serious discussion, exchange of ideas & opinions, as well as real-life-experiences.
I left the States in the late 1970’s, to work in KSA-Saudi Arabia.
I suddenly found myself speaking English with people who learned it as a 2nd/3rd/4th language and, understood I should try to streamline/simplify my way of speaking to avoid misunderstanding what I wanted to say.
Knowing MoA has many readers that have English as a secondary language which negates understanding of idioms/argôt, well, it’s work for me for over 40 years now.
So. That explains that.
Regards & Best Wishes X-
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=argot+definition&t=ffcm&ia=definition

Posted by: Veritas X- | Mar 1 2020 11:17 utc | 278

Veritas X- | Mar 1 2020 11:17 utc | 281
Just don’t engage with trolls as they try to derail the discussion.
Nick | Mar 1 2020 10:14 utc | 275
That remains to be seen. As of now Turkey has not faced a major backlash yet, since Erdogan always escalates when forced in a corner. Like a gambler who instead of taking the losses and calling it quits, continues to gamble increasing the stakes higher and higher. He is either going to win big or it will all come crushing down.
As for the “refugee” blackmail at Europes’s border I’m positive he only waits for the moment when Greece will be forced to shoot and kill the invading mob.

Posted by: redrooster | Mar 1 2020 11:32 utc | 279

Video here were the incoming missile can be clearly seen. Drone is lighting up the target for other missiles.
https://twitter.com/StasSwanky/status/1233857020119437312

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 11:37 utc | 280

Peter AU, your comment regarding the error the Turkish made in hitting that Iranian/Lebanese location, they apparently killed their cleric is Sayyed Ali heyer all Zinjani as well, an Iranian married and living in Homs, is spot on. This is from Mangier in the last hour or so.
“The Turks were informed in detail of the position of Hezbollah and the Iranian brigades along with the Syrian army but decided to ignore the information and continued bombing these positions over and over again. It is now clear that Turkey is in the battle with his army to stay.” “They killed 9 Hezbollah and 21 from the #IRGC battalion (Fatimiyoun and Zaynabiyoun) in their HQ.”
Then the kicker, my highlight, “The Syrian Army and its allies have installed their own anti-air missile defence system over Idlib and Saraqeb to continue the military operation. Any drone or jet is expected to be downed. Now the Syrian Army and its allies are no longer expected to be caught by surprise by allies or enemies above the military operational stage along the M4 and M5.”
“SAA & allies (w/ reinforcements) r regaining momentum. It is not fair for the Turkish Army to be sent along Jihadists coz there will be more casualties. The 36 Turkish soldiers killed on 27th Feb were not alone: 17 jihadists were killed in the same attack but corps left behind.”

Posted by: JohninMK | Mar 1 2020 11:44 utc | 281

I have just run onto a page from the US Taliban deal (possibly genuine). Timed for the election. All troops out of Afghanistan in 9,5 months. That puts it mid December. Most troops would be out by November election. Only one page so I don’t know the caveats but if it includes the taliban behaving themselves until that date, the after the election, the US can say Taliban broke the deal and move back in. Will have to see how this turns out because after this term, trump wont have to care about another election.
large image https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESAn2mlWsAEbndB?format=jpg&name=small
Found it at this account https://twitter.com/RisboLensky
JohninMK
Thanks. I did not know about the cleric.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 12:10 utc | 282

Peter, quite a good write up, plus the document, on the US/Taliban deal. Bit of US right wing for you in the comments 🙂
theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/02/29/u-s-and-islamic-republic-of-afghanistan-sign-joint-peace-agreement-u-s-military-will-reduce-military-forces/#more-185067
The Iranians, and others, expect and honour their soldiers when they die, part of what they signed up for. To have killed a cleric is a completely different ball game. This will really make them angry. Perhaps we should expect significant increases in Iranian gear testing in war conditions now or even incoming BMs.

Posted by: JohninMK | Mar 1 2020 12:27 utc | 283

@redrooster 264, Peter AU1
To counter artillery, EW doesn’t help. There is no electronics to be disturbed in classical towed arti-pieces. But you don’t need air superiority. There are counter battery radars (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoopark-1). And because the shells follow a ballistic trajectory the origin can be calculated (considering weather and terrain). And just shoot there with your own arties.

Posted by: BG13 | Mar 1 2020 12:38 utc | 284

JohninMK
Looks like its on now. Two syrian jets have been downed, Turkey is still moving reinforcements and equipment into Idlib and not backing off. SAA have now recovered from the recent surprise Turk attack. It seems they pulled out of some of the plain to the high ground so the headchoppers and Turks on the plain are dead meat.
The anti aircraft fire and long range artillery coming out of Turkey will be a problem. Not sure how Russia will get around that one. Problem solved though if the Turks target anything Russian.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 12:39 utc | 285

BG13
they are laser or gps guided. Russia will be very hesitant to fire into Turkey. That is a big step into the unknown. Russia will go there if Erdo targets anything Russian. Going by the shit he is pulling, he may well do that.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 12:46 utc | 286

WSWS says> (nukes in Syria conflict vis Ru Turk) > “gazeta.ru posted a column by its main military analyst, Col. Mikhail Khodarenok (ret.), who stated that while Russia’s backing down to Turkey would spell a “political-military fiasco,” Turkey enjoyed an “overwhelming superiority in personnel and military hardware” on the ground in Idlib. His conclusion: the only way for Russia to prevail would be the threat or use of tactical nuclear weapons.” and ” immense tensions concentrated in Idlib are a product of the escalating drive toward war on a global scale, which has its roots in the insoluble crisis of world capitalism and, in particular, the attempts by US imperialism to reverse its declining hegemony by means of military force.”
Ok, maybe…but Syria is merely one “front” is a global enterprise of conquest…and the build-up for aggressive war (Exercise DEFENDER-Europe 20) must incline rational persons to consider the entire global situation…and in the full spectrum of economies and abilities…
Thus one might wonder…”what will VVP and his government do when confronted with an atomic ultimatum?
Last time Kennedy and Nikita found a way out…but it turned out that the world was saved when Vasili Alexandrovich Arkhipov said “no”. One guy on a soviet sub. (actually also one guy on Okinawa, that we know of). The Clown’s internal contradictions make him incapable of retreat, and the surrounding characters all claim to believe in magic “rapture” and a bizarre death cult – as nutty as the headchopper whahappies and the magic virginz.
Wally assumes that the target lists are all drawn up and naturally that Ivan has plans for places in US that fabricate weapons, and for the ammo dumps in EU. He speculates that the beginnings will be mysterious sabotage events – an easy speculation because that’s been going on for some time…a public secret, obvious, yet never recognized.
At YT see “The insanity of nuclear deterrence” Robert Green (an expert)

Posted by: Walter | Mar 1 2020 12:54 utc | 287

Anyone care to comment on the trustworthiness of Liveuamap in presenting unbiased information?
https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2020/1-march-turkish-army-an-air-defense-system-that-shotdown
“At Liveuamap we use proprietary software tools, such as its AI web crawlers, to find news-worthy stories which will be forwarded to our group of expert analysts for fact checking. Our dedicated editors decide which facts and stories should be displayed on the map to minimize spam”

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 1 2020 13:01 utc | 288

Walter
Russia does not need to use nuclear weapons to take Turkey out of the fight. Turkey, like the US has no defence against current Russian non nuclear weapons. With no command centers and no airfields, Turkey would be out of the fight. Simply deleting command centers is probably more than enough.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 13:06 utc | 289

EU narrative falling apart; its own MSM reporting of 50,000 Syrians, Iraqis and Afghans refugees brought to the Greek border in Turkish gov buses.
One day they’ll add Somalia, Libya to the list and start thinking about the West failed wars, its cost, and its influence on the creation of failed states.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 1 2020 13:09 utc | 290

Carciofi | Mar 1 2020 13:01 utc | 291
It’s pro-terrorist, so just keep that in mind. Use your healthy brain filter when using it. Useful to be informed about what is in the mind of the enemy.

Posted by: redrooster | Mar 1 2020 13:11 utc | 291

Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 13:06 utc | 292 (need to use)
I wouldn’t know – it’s a quote from a Russian military expert. His opinion, not mine…but of course this is probably unimportant as fact come from deeds, which come from opinions, from perception – the significance is that a Russian expert says it. But the point is not in Syria alone…it’s a global affair…and the US has been moving atomic munitions into Eastern Europe as part of “exercise “defender eutope2020”. Possibly you imagined something not said. (see below).
The Russian opinion I quoted did not refer to any Russian use of atomics on Turkey, but to use on Syrian territory where, obviously, they would be fully effective against personnel and armor.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 1 2020 13:31 utc | 292

I’d add> “When the Commander of NATO says he is a fan of flexible first strike at the same time that NATO is flexing its military muscle on Russia’s border, the risk of inadvertent nuclear war is real.” Ritter (also an expert)
oh, of course, the Syrian just closed the airspace too>
Elena Evdokimova
@elenaevdokimov7
·
1h
From noon today until 6:00 p.m. on March 8, 2020, Syrian government declared the international routes in (from) Aleppo in the north, north-west and south-west closed for the entire range, with exception of military aircrafts.
Looking ahead to April…look for sabotage and skirmish…W4
Looking backwards to the History one gleans that the Imperial Forces have within them, as they did all through W2, “agents”…
They say that in Able-Archer USSR came down to the wire with a nuclear sabotage at Andrews AFB…so they say. Agents…
Well, face it – it’s a global attempt…began prior to 1942 as Policy (Stimson et al) and confirmed as plans to nuke Russia (confirmed by Groves in March of 1944 (Alperovitz) And here we are with ringside seats at the denouement.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 1 2020 13:42 utc | 293

Redrooster #294
Thanks. That’s what I thought: anti Syria – pro US/NATO establisment

Posted by: Carciofi | Mar 1 2020 14:07 utc | 294

@ Posted by: Really | Mar 1 2020 14:15 utc | 298
Well, the Orthodox Church was an integral part of the Russian State – it was an absolutist monarchy after all. Once you enter the game, you have to follow the rules.
You can’t have it both ways: be part of the power apparatus and, when the regime you support and directly benefits from falls, you play the “freedom of religion” card and asks for a free pass.

Posted by: vk | Mar 1 2020 14:23 utc | 295

Walter
I cannot find the relevant article. It does not appear on the list of his articles at Gazeta.ru.
https://www.gazeta.ru/comments/column/kolesnikov/

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 14:34 utc | 296

@redrooster #264

When you have air superiority you only need to locate it and bomb it, correct? Where there is a will there is a way.

Turkey is in possession of a wide variety of artillery systems. Its most modern artillery systems, 155 mm T-155 Fırtına self-propelled howitzer and 155 mm Panter towed howitzer, have the following effective firing ranges: 18 km with a M107 projectile, 30 km with a M549A1 rocket-assisted projectile, 40 km with an unspecified base bleed projectile (probably a licensed copy of Korean K307). Use a map of Syria with a bar scale to see how far Turkey is able to fire from its own territory. Territory of Turkey is covered by the Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. Turkey also has rocket systems (including ballistic rockets) with an even greater range.

Posted by: S | Mar 1 2020 15:06 utc | 297

A couple of headlines from Turkish news:
“Wagner fear [Turkey’s] atmed drones”
“The operation is going successfully”
Is that the twitter operation they’re talking about?
The “downed regime plane” seems to have been dropped though. ))))

Posted by: Egor68500 | Mar 1 2020 15:09 utc | 298

Posted by: S | Mar 1 2020 15:06 utc | 300
Too far away from the frontlines, low accuracy. Ballistic missiles too expensive. Of course Turkey has used them all to some degree but they can’t make a difference on the battlefield at this range. If the frontline was at Idlib city I would agree with you.
No, unfortunately the damage is made with weapons and ammunition inside the border.

Posted by: redrooster | Mar 1 2020 16:22 utc | 299

: Peter AU1 | Mar 1 2020 14:34 utc | 299 Here’s the full paragraph>
“The potential for the Syrian conflict to erupt into a world catastrophic war are far greater than governments or the corporate media care to acknowledge. Last week, the Russian news website gazeta.ru posted a column by its main military analyst, Col. Mikhail Khodarenok (ret.), who stated that while Russia’s backing down to Turkey would spell a “political-military fiasco,” Turkey enjoyed an “overwhelming superiority in personnel and military hardware” on the ground in Idlib. His conclusion: the only way for Russia to prevail would be the threat or use of tactical nuclear weapons.”
This para, in turn, @ > “War tensions mount in wake of strike on Turkish troops in Syria
By Bill Van Auken
29 February 2020 ” @ WSWS dot Org
This is simply part of the context of skirmish…but it implies a willingness of a sort. Or unwillness – depends on how you see it.
In contex, consider “China is Confronting the COVID-19 Epidemic. Was It Man-Made? An Act of of Bio-warfare?” (Peter Koenig @ globalresearch dot ca)
and of course the “exercise” in Europe, moving the bomb, dispersing atomics the election.and all…it’s a global thing forced by circumstance formed by moral bankruptcy and psychopathic delusions of uneducated chumps…

Posted by: Walter | Mar 1 2020 16:34 utc | 300